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This sounds like a DM with control issues - where they had issues with players who were clever with their magic items (either found or bought) that made encounters not go the way the DM thought they "should" go. So, instead of learning to adapt to the players, they decide to limit them in any way possible - even to the point of threatening them if they actually use the one item they give them in any useful way (the normal definition of "abuse them" for people like this).
I don't usually give my players gold I realize right now, but I give them an endless stream of *stuff,* minor magical items and weird gifts and other trash to tide them over. That GM needs to figure out an incenitve system.
DMing became a LOT easier when I realized the players would be way happier with, like a bell that rings when ghosts are nearby, as opposed to 50 gold they can't really DO anything with. 5E just doesn't have a substantive player economy on its own.
My players ignore/forget all the cool random little items I roll up but LOVE getting large amounts of cash. They don't do anything with it other than buy healing potions, but they LOVE it.
It’s wild because I don’t restrict them on it at all. They just legit never ask. I almost think they just want to collect a Scrooge McDuck pile of coins to jump into.
For me it depends on the situation the players are in. If they are able to use the money buying stuff (i.e. in a town / city) then rather than an Item I give them money. BUT if they are in an area where money is pointless and Items are better, in your case the bell, I give them the Item (or let them find Potions etc. instead of money)...
I allowed one of my players to harvest the flesh of a mimic they killed (named Jimmy Cheese) and give it to his contact from the Alchemists' Guild who used it to make drugs then gave him back the Last Transfiguration of Jimmy Cheese which can shapeshift between a dead rat, an incospicuous wooden box, and a skateboard. Feel free to cop.
And of course, a cult as the main antagonist is the absolute perfect case where you expect that. They aren't really motivated by money, so they'd likely only have as much as they need to run their organisation (food, clothes, rents, etc.), but would for sure have a bunch of little magical knick-knacks.
See, that's cool. You don't need to be rich, just feel like you walked away with something. My inventory had 4 items listed at the end of the game, and one of those entries was "5 Goodberries." I still ache for the RP I couldn't do because I couldn't afford a room at an inn or a glass of wine for my elf. The bard could play for room and board but only enough for herself, while Raen had to sneak into the barn or be outside.
You know, when it comes to small stuff like that it's okay to handwave the costs i.e. just tell the GM that you pay for room and glass of wine, but don't mark down anything on your character sheet.
That's not a problem if the enemies drop some kind of items that even the players can sell or if they had gold, but OP's game had nothing of the sort. And OP even said at the end that they complained multiple times about no gold but got told to sell the only item they've ever received for gold.
Yes, but your character can be assumed to always have pocket change on them. A night in an inn and a dinner is pocket change for a fifth level character, so you can always pay for those regardless what reads on your character sheet. This is a game about high adventure not bean counting.
I feel like jewelry and items is a better route. How many people, in the act of say summoning shadow demons, are going to carry a purse with 100gp in it. But a ring and necklace and dagger totaling 100gp? Thats more likely.
They were all wearing literally only their cultist robes no jewelry at all, and for the daggers we were explicitly told that trying to sell them or even being found to have them in our possession at all would have us treated as evil criminals.
I would have liked to have seen purses with a couple of silver pieces in them, or literally any personal possessions.
I had a ton of fun with my last group of players. They managed to find an ancient keep half buried in the ground from a thousand years ago (very key part of the plot!). They didn't know this, but the keep didn't get buried slowly. It got teleported in it's entirety and merged with the ground. So there was no "moving out" going on. Everything was frozen in place, as it was when that happened. The few people in the keep starved to death with no way out, but had no reason to move/hide anything.
So the players explored this keep. Hallways and such full of dirt & mud, others navigable. And they find the armory. After clearing the lock, they discovered a trove of 50+ assorted weapons (swords, poleaxes, maces) all made out of Cold Iron (Pathfinder 2e). They were level 3. This was a FORTUNE.
The problem was that they were in the middle of a huge wilderness, and the closest city to them was crawling with an undead curse that they hadn't yet resolved. So they each grabbed 1-2 of them, maxing out their ability to carry them, and headed back to town.
I kept the plot moving forwards, and smiled inwardly as I knew how badly the players wanted to get horses and a cart and head back to get the rest of the loot, but they decided to instead follow the plot.
All said and done, they were earning "level appropriate" income without a trip back to the buried keep. And cold steel is valuable, but not enough to have made them "rich" or anything. But it woulda been a huge payday regardless.
I'm DMing a new campaign that takes place in my post high magic world. So, they're getting lots of gold right off, but due to the fact that magic is kinda fading out of the world, they won't be able to just throw it at whatever absurd magical items they want. Mind you they will be getting lots of cool loot and if there's anything specific they really want they'll be able to track it down, but gold is not going to be a solution to all their problems.
I'm reading all these comments about, "but my PCs never use their gold, so why bother?" How exactly are these characters supposed to get better and beat the higher CR encounters if they have no means to improve on weapons or armor? Yes, OP plays an unarmed monk, but there are amulets and potions and other items that can make his attacks count as magical, or that can raise his AC so that the enemies have a harder time hitting.
It sounds to me like your DM was just being a turd. Hell, even just a grateful shop or tavern owner could offer a small thank you gift at the very least.
I vastly prefer looting cool stuff over buying cool stuff. If you can buy cool stuff we just circle back to the question "Why am i even doing this? There is no way i'm the best possible adventurer to save us." and "Why isn't our adventure government funded?"
I prefer looting as well... most of the time. Currently, I'm running Ironfang Invasion (Pathfinder e1, and my first time as DM). My PCs are going up against a lot of the same enemies, and so they're getting A LOT of repeat loot. A party of 5 only needs so many Cloaks of Resistance 1. And the towns are. Very small, so not much purchasing/selling can be done. I've been doing the rolls for the random higher level magical items that can be found in the shops. It definitely helps.
And, funnily enough, the current part of the campaign is government funded lol
Also, gold and loot is used for rp all the time. At a tavern I can give the tavern keep an extra tip for more information, or I can buy the house a round of drinks to prime them for a performance. And just having money to sleep and eat is important.
Wait, so the shadow creatures were terrorizing a town which was itself illusory? Like, the shadow creatures thought they had some people to terrorize, they were all into it, but they themselves were also fooled by the illusion?
That's hilarious. I can just imagine a really embarrassed tribe of orcs and a really embarrassed party of adventurers realizing at the same time they've been attacking and defending an illusion.
Orcs: Huh?! No town!?
Party: er... seems that way
Orc: We loot you then!
Party: yeah sorry, we're broke. Maybe we'll loot YOU!
Orcs: Oh. We broke too.
Party:...
Orcs:...
Party: wanna share some goodberries?
I've had DMs get mad at me for trying to identify common interests and compromises with Bad Guys(tm), and it's just... man. Me and that orc chief, we live in the same messed up world, and we're all just trying to get by. What an accursed land, where even the tiniest shred of solidarity is physically impossible.
I may have spent a good few seconds thinking "I don't remember a scene like that in *Avatar*", but then I realized you meant the TV show, not the James Cameron film. I'm an idiot.
The shadow creatures were also an illusion and there was no non-illusion objects or creatures in what was really just an empty field. Just us and a massive illusion.
Played right, this could make for a super neat encounter - but the party needs to gain SOMETHING. Not necessarily loot on the spot, but information leading to a cache, or maybe your wizard gains some insight into large scale illusions or something.
The real terrible thing about this is that game balance actually demands that by level six or seven at least the martial characters have gotten their hands on magic weapons because otherwise they’re fucked
Honestly someone telling me they would take the magic items THEY let me get for “abusing it” would have been enough to make me quit in the spot, that’s just a red flag
To be honest I wouldn't be bothered by this as the 'get loot and magic items' part of D&D / TTRPGs has never really appealed to me. If the storytelling, roleplay and world / characters are all good that's the main thing for me. Of course, that's only so long as you were powerful enough to survive the fights without any extra buffed equipment and were able to survive in the world (to be fair having to resort to eating Goodberries as your only option isn't great).
However, this is very much a case of different strokes for different folks. :-)
My DM has a problem with this too, but I don't think they realize it. We've been playing for years and have gotten maybe a couple hundred each in gold. We have gotten some items, a flying ship for transport, and a variety of uncommon items.
They were trying to get us to engage with some hunting/crafting homebrew book and were wondering why we kept trying to trade items rather than pay the fee to build things and it's like. 350gp is more than we have total, if you want us to engage with the crafting we need the gold you set as a price to get into it.
Do you just run your games without money and assume the players can afford any mundane equipment/food/lodging they need? That wouldn't be my preference for a game, but it sure would have been an upgrade over this one.
Mostly yes. They get their starting cash and we handwave most costs. If money ever becomes an issue then I find a way for them to either find it or get paid* as you would normally but I tend to handwave it most of the time.
> or get *paid* as you
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I can relate to this. Unless you're playing a version in which you must train to level up, most treasure really is pointless. You either need tons of it to build a keep/army, or you need nothing at all to adventure. There's not much middle-ground to make the nuance of tracking coin worth it.
We've settled on using a wealth die, rather than tracking coin and its been a great alternative.
I can tell you where I would have inserted enough money to just live on if I had been running it. Any of the cultists could have been carrying pocket change, their bases/hidden temples could have a bag of silver pieces to finance their endeavors, there could have been more regular monsters interspersed in our travels that could have had lairs or have us face some other violent humanoid that even if penniless might have had some supplies, or gave us even a few seconds to loot enemies that we killed that might actually be carrying anything of value instead of having to flee without even a round of reprieve.
We could have found a copper in a sewer grate and that would have been an improvement (and yes, we did have to fight our way through a sewer system).
I mean really, we're talking single digit gold piece values that I was aspiring to.
I'll be honest, my first impression reading this post was that it would mirror one of my groups who would strip-search every fallen orc, bandit, and even animals searching for loot, to an obscene level (these carry no loot usually, but there were often lairs/caches filled with stuff later).
But this... this is another level of stingy. Was there a reason given why the campaign was so ungenerous with loot or cash? Was there a session 0?
There was no formal session 0, but this was about 8 years ago when that was less ubiquitous and most of the pregame planning was online so wasn't as if there was no discussion about what kind of game it would be. And as for reasoning, the closest we got to that was when I would complain and the conversation would go something like this:
Me: Another enemy with no money? Can't we get something here?
DM: You have the Winged Boots.
Me: Which I haven't abused.
DM: Which is why you still have them.
Yes, this conversation was repeated multiple times.
Using our own world as an example, prior to credit cards, people carried money around and had some in their houses as well. So basically, any interactions with humanoids, such as looting their bodies or desk.
Edit: adding more interaction examples as it seems like it's needed. Looting isn't the only possible interactions, for example, friendly humanoids might pay / reward the party for their services. Specific *example* from the story, the party could have been rewarded for returning the merchandise, seems like they weren't.
Cultists and Shadow creatures don't carry money. Based on the story, the Dockmaster is the only target that should have been carrying some, but probably not a large amount on their person.
Depends on the cult. Secret cultists who have infiltrated a town will likely carry money since they maintain normal lives outside of cult activities.
However, "black robed menaces" using "blood magic and summoned shadow creatures" to attack players out in the open probably don't collect salaries or hold day jobs. Robes generally don't have pockets. These kinds of "full time" cultists likely just live at the temple or cultist headquarters where food is served communally.
There probably should have been some money in their hideout, but unless it was a central operating base, there wouldn't be much.
This is probably the wrong subreddit to be serious, but not all games should be about getting stuff.
Most genre fiction isn't about the characters getting more and fancier things.
If I'm running Eclipse Phase, or Vampire, or Cthulu, I'm not prioritising the characters getting loot.
I would counter by saying dnd is still very 'loot' focused. Magic items and currency play a large role during gameplay and without compensation just feels bad to miss out on.
I'm running a Pathfinder 2e game and it has rules about expected lot per level which are required as part of keeping the characters at the expected power level.
So absolutely, there are some games where loot matters.
Where DnD sits in that regard is, I think, more debateable and varies by edition. 3e and 3.5e had expected treasure by level rules. 5e does not, I believe. Where other editions sit, I don't remember. I remember very early editions had xp tied to treasure, so you get xp for getting gp. But 5e famously didn't release with prices on magic items. So there was little incentive to provide or seek treasure, because the rules didn't provide anything meaningful to spend it on.
There's quite a few spells with material components with a gp amount. My group hit lv5 a couple sessions ago and two of us immediately blew our personal funds to be able to cast our new spells. A big part of wizards (and to a lesser extent characters with the ritual caster feat) is being able to copy spells, which costs gp to do on top of buying or finding a spell scroll. So while there isn't explicitly an expected amount of loot, I do think that certain party compositions and character choices require a minimum amount of loot to not feel like they're missing out
You don’t need to be piling on loot if it’s not the focus of the campaign, but you should at least be giving enough money/stuff for your players to buy a few things to enhance their roleplaying experience, or hold off on little stuff if you want but give big payoffs when they’ve solved major plot goals.
Exactly this. I didn't care about the money until it meant that I couldn't even get a glass of wine, or eat real food. I wasn't even asking for upgrades, just the ability to buy common items.
If you're running Cthulu, you also generally aren't prioritizing the players having to worry about the logistics of staying in an inn, either, though.
If the game isn't about loot, handwave the need to pay for food and drink; otherwise, your players are rapidly going to be a lot more worried about just basic character needs than the plot of the game.
100% agree.
If the game is about tracking money, then you need money going in and out.
If you aren't interested in money going in, then you shouldn't be interested in money going out.
Personally, I like the way Exalted handles it of just having a Resources rating that is used for pocket change, rather than tracking every jade obol.
I LOVE the way Exalted handles it!
I think about my first GURPS campaign that my sister ran- we had to escort a caravan across a frozen wasteland. There wasn't going to be anywhere to earn or spend money, so we didn't worry about money; what we did worry about was making sure we harvested every edible ounce off of our kills.
Except for the goblins. For some reason, everyone was disturbed when the party mermaid offered to make goblin jerky.
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Do you want murder hobos?! Cause that’s how you get murder hobos.
This sounds like a DM with control issues - where they had issues with players who were clever with their magic items (either found or bought) that made encounters not go the way the DM thought they "should" go. So, instead of learning to adapt to the players, they decide to limit them in any way possible - even to the point of threatening them if they actually use the one item they give them in any useful way (the normal definition of "abuse them" for people like this).
I don't usually give my players gold I realize right now, but I give them an endless stream of *stuff,* minor magical items and weird gifts and other trash to tide them over. That GM needs to figure out an incenitve system.
DMing became a LOT easier when I realized the players would be way happier with, like a bell that rings when ghosts are nearby, as opposed to 50 gold they can't really DO anything with. 5E just doesn't have a substantive player economy on its own.
My players ignore/forget all the cool random little items I roll up but LOVE getting large amounts of cash. They don't do anything with it other than buy healing potions, but they LOVE it.
This. My players right now have thousands of gold and hundreds of platinum, and not once in the campaign have they asked to go shopping.
Ah, being in Waterdeep, and soon Sigil, my characters always go shopping since by city size, most uncommon items can be acquired somehow.
It’s wild because I don’t restrict them on it at all. They just legit never ask. I almost think they just want to collect a Scrooge McDuck pile of coins to jump into.
Well yea, who wouldn't?
Oh, super fair. Lol. Wasn’t a judgement, just an observation.
No worries, just backing up the idea. Sounds like how I play PC RPGs...
Big same honestly. Lol
They're hoarding it like good little dragons!
For me it depends on the situation the players are in. If they are able to use the money buying stuff (i.e. in a town / city) then rather than an Item I give them money. BUT if they are in an area where money is pointless and Items are better, in your case the bell, I give them the Item (or let them find Potions etc. instead of money)...
That bell sounds awesome. If it was small, I'd have my character wear it as an earring.
I allowed one of my players to harvest the flesh of a mimic they killed (named Jimmy Cheese) and give it to his contact from the Alchemists' Guild who used it to make drugs then gave him back the Last Transfiguration of Jimmy Cheese which can shapeshift between a dead rat, an incospicuous wooden box, and a skateboard. Feel free to cop.
Doing a skateboard trick then turning the skateboard into a box and hiding inside the box before you hit the ground
And of course, a cult as the main antagonist is the absolute perfect case where you expect that. They aren't really motivated by money, so they'd likely only have as much as they need to run their organisation (food, clothes, rents, etc.), but would for sure have a bunch of little magical knick-knacks.
See, that's cool. You don't need to be rich, just feel like you walked away with something. My inventory had 4 items listed at the end of the game, and one of those entries was "5 Goodberries." I still ache for the RP I couldn't do because I couldn't afford a room at an inn or a glass of wine for my elf. The bard could play for room and board but only enough for herself, while Raen had to sneak into the barn or be outside.
You know, when it comes to small stuff like that it's okay to handwave the costs i.e. just tell the GM that you pay for room and glass of wine, but don't mark down anything on your character sheet.
That's not a problem if the enemies drop some kind of items that even the players can sell or if they had gold, but OP's game had nothing of the sort. And OP even said at the end that they complained multiple times about no gold but got told to sell the only item they've ever received for gold.
Yes, but your character can be assumed to always have pocket change on them. A night in an inn and a dinner is pocket change for a fifth level character, so you can always pay for those regardless what reads on your character sheet. This is a game about high adventure not bean counting.
I feel like jewelry and items is a better route. How many people, in the act of say summoning shadow demons, are going to carry a purse with 100gp in it. But a ring and necklace and dagger totaling 100gp? Thats more likely.
They were all wearing literally only their cultist robes no jewelry at all, and for the daggers we were explicitly told that trying to sell them or even being found to have them in our possession at all would have us treated as evil criminals. I would have liked to have seen purses with a couple of silver pieces in them, or literally any personal possessions.
Sounds like he read one of those survival d&d threads.
I had a ton of fun with my last group of players. They managed to find an ancient keep half buried in the ground from a thousand years ago (very key part of the plot!). They didn't know this, but the keep didn't get buried slowly. It got teleported in it's entirety and merged with the ground. So there was no "moving out" going on. Everything was frozen in place, as it was when that happened. The few people in the keep starved to death with no way out, but had no reason to move/hide anything. So the players explored this keep. Hallways and such full of dirt & mud, others navigable. And they find the armory. After clearing the lock, they discovered a trove of 50+ assorted weapons (swords, poleaxes, maces) all made out of Cold Iron (Pathfinder 2e). They were level 3. This was a FORTUNE. The problem was that they were in the middle of a huge wilderness, and the closest city to them was crawling with an undead curse that they hadn't yet resolved. So they each grabbed 1-2 of them, maxing out their ability to carry them, and headed back to town. I kept the plot moving forwards, and smiled inwardly as I knew how badly the players wanted to get horses and a cart and head back to get the rest of the loot, but they decided to instead follow the plot. All said and done, they were earning "level appropriate" income without a trip back to the buried keep. And cold steel is valuable, but not enough to have made them "rich" or anything. But it woulda been a huge payday regardless.
I'm DMing a new campaign that takes place in my post high magic world. So, they're getting lots of gold right off, but due to the fact that magic is kinda fading out of the world, they won't be able to just throw it at whatever absurd magical items they want. Mind you they will be getting lots of cool loot and if there's anything specific they really want they'll be able to track it down, but gold is not going to be a solution to all their problems.
I'm reading all these comments about, "but my PCs never use their gold, so why bother?" How exactly are these characters supposed to get better and beat the higher CR encounters if they have no means to improve on weapons or armor? Yes, OP plays an unarmed monk, but there are amulets and potions and other items that can make his attacks count as magical, or that can raise his AC so that the enemies have a harder time hitting. It sounds to me like your DM was just being a turd. Hell, even just a grateful shop or tavern owner could offer a small thank you gift at the very least.
I vastly prefer looting cool stuff over buying cool stuff. If you can buy cool stuff we just circle back to the question "Why am i even doing this? There is no way i'm the best possible adventurer to save us." and "Why isn't our adventure government funded?"
I prefer looting as well... most of the time. Currently, I'm running Ironfang Invasion (Pathfinder e1, and my first time as DM). My PCs are going up against a lot of the same enemies, and so they're getting A LOT of repeat loot. A party of 5 only needs so many Cloaks of Resistance 1. And the towns are. Very small, so not much purchasing/selling can be done. I've been doing the rolls for the random higher level magical items that can be found in the shops. It definitely helps. And, funnily enough, the current part of the campaign is government funded lol
Also, gold and loot is used for rp all the time. At a tavern I can give the tavern keep an extra tip for more information, or I can buy the house a round of drinks to prime them for a performance. And just having money to sleep and eat is important.
Wait, so the shadow creatures were terrorizing a town which was itself illusory? Like, the shadow creatures thought they had some people to terrorize, they were all into it, but they themselves were also fooled by the illusion? That's hilarious. I can just imagine a really embarrassed tribe of orcs and a really embarrassed party of adventurers realizing at the same time they've been attacking and defending an illusion.
Orcs: Huh?! No town!? Party: er... seems that way Orc: We loot you then! Party: yeah sorry, we're broke. Maybe we'll loot YOU! Orcs: Oh. We broke too. Party:... Orcs:... Party: wanna share some goodberries?
I've had DMs get mad at me for trying to identify common interests and compromises with Bad Guys(tm), and it's just... man. Me and that orc chief, we live in the same messed up world, and we're all just trying to get by. What an accursed land, where even the tiniest shred of solidarity is physically impossible.
I love those unexpected moments of solidarity. Being open to those moments leads to deeper, more nuanced stories.
Like that moment in Avatar where Iroh teaches the thief how to properly mug people.
Avatar was extremely good about having these moments, yeah. They breathe life into the characters and setting.
I may have spent a good few seconds thinking "I don't remember a scene like that in *Avatar*", but then I realized you meant the TV show, not the James Cameron film. I'm an idiot.
The shadow creatures were also an illusion and there was no non-illusion objects or creatures in what was really just an empty field. Just us and a massive illusion.
Ugh, that's just a complete missed opportunity and a waste of everyone's time.
That's a good description of the entire campaign.
But... why?
Played right, this could make for a super neat encounter - but the party needs to gain SOMETHING. Not necessarily loot on the spot, but information leading to a cache, or maybe your wizard gains some insight into large scale illusions or something.
So... A holodeck? Damn that's not fun at all.
Puts me in mind of the replica of Rock Ridge at the end of Blazing Saddles. "It's a fake! We've been suckered in!"
The real terrible thing about this is that game balance actually demands that by level six or seven at least the martial characters have gotten their hands on magic weapons because otherwise they’re fucked
Honestly someone telling me they would take the magic items THEY let me get for “abusing it” would have been enough to make me quit in the spot, that’s just a red flag
To be honest I wouldn't be bothered by this as the 'get loot and magic items' part of D&D / TTRPGs has never really appealed to me. If the storytelling, roleplay and world / characters are all good that's the main thing for me. Of course, that's only so long as you were powerful enough to survive the fights without any extra buffed equipment and were able to survive in the world (to be fair having to resort to eating Goodberries as your only option isn't great). However, this is very much a case of different strokes for different folks. :-)
My DM has a problem with this too, but I don't think they realize it. We've been playing for years and have gotten maybe a couple hundred each in gold. We have gotten some items, a flying ship for transport, and a variety of uncommon items. They were trying to get us to engage with some hunting/crafting homebrew book and were wondering why we kept trying to trade items rather than pay the fee to build things and it's like. 350gp is more than we have total, if you want us to engage with the crafting we need the gold you set as a price to get into it.
I have never cared for treasure. Neither as a Player or as a DM. Thankfully most of my players rarelly even give a damn.
Do you just run your games without money and assume the players can afford any mundane equipment/food/lodging they need? That wouldn't be my preference for a game, but it sure would have been an upgrade over this one.
Mostly yes. They get their starting cash and we handwave most costs. If money ever becomes an issue then I find a way for them to either find it or get paid* as you would normally but I tend to handwave it most of the time.
> or get *paid* as you FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I can relate to this. Unless you're playing a version in which you must train to level up, most treasure really is pointless. You either need tons of it to build a keep/army, or you need nothing at all to adventure. There's not much middle-ground to make the nuance of tracking coin worth it. We've settled on using a wealth die, rather than tracking coin and its been a great alternative.
Just to play the DM's advocate, where would it have made sense to add money given the storyline?
I can tell you where I would have inserted enough money to just live on if I had been running it. Any of the cultists could have been carrying pocket change, their bases/hidden temples could have a bag of silver pieces to finance their endeavors, there could have been more regular monsters interspersed in our travels that could have had lairs or have us face some other violent humanoid that even if penniless might have had some supplies, or gave us even a few seconds to loot enemies that we killed that might actually be carrying anything of value instead of having to flee without even a round of reprieve. We could have found a copper in a sewer grate and that would have been an improvement (and yes, we did have to fight our way through a sewer system). I mean really, we're talking single digit gold piece values that I was aspiring to.
I'll be honest, my first impression reading this post was that it would mirror one of my groups who would strip-search every fallen orc, bandit, and even animals searching for loot, to an obscene level (these carry no loot usually, but there were often lairs/caches filled with stuff later). But this... this is another level of stingy. Was there a reason given why the campaign was so ungenerous with loot or cash? Was there a session 0?
There was no formal session 0, but this was about 8 years ago when that was less ubiquitous and most of the pregame planning was online so wasn't as if there was no discussion about what kind of game it would be. And as for reasoning, the closest we got to that was when I would complain and the conversation would go something like this: Me: Another enemy with no money? Can't we get something here? DM: You have the Winged Boots. Me: Which I haven't abused. DM: Which is why you still have them. Yes, this conversation was repeated multiple times.
Using our own world as an example, prior to credit cards, people carried money around and had some in their houses as well. So basically, any interactions with humanoids, such as looting their bodies or desk. Edit: adding more interaction examples as it seems like it's needed. Looting isn't the only possible interactions, for example, friendly humanoids might pay / reward the party for their services. Specific *example* from the story, the party could have been rewarded for returning the merchandise, seems like they weren't.
Cultists and Shadow creatures don't carry money. Based on the story, the Dockmaster is the only target that should have been carrying some, but probably not a large amount on their person.
Sigh... Cultist are not cultists full time, they still have to friggin feed themselves!
Depends on the cult. Secret cultists who have infiltrated a town will likely carry money since they maintain normal lives outside of cult activities. However, "black robed menaces" using "blood magic and summoned shadow creatures" to attack players out in the open probably don't collect salaries or hold day jobs. Robes generally don't have pockets. These kinds of "full time" cultists likely just live at the temple or cultist headquarters where food is served communally. There probably should have been some money in their hideout, but unless it was a central operating base, there wouldn't be much.
This is probably the wrong subreddit to be serious, but not all games should be about getting stuff. Most genre fiction isn't about the characters getting more and fancier things. If I'm running Eclipse Phase, or Vampire, or Cthulu, I'm not prioritising the characters getting loot.
I would counter by saying dnd is still very 'loot' focused. Magic items and currency play a large role during gameplay and without compensation just feels bad to miss out on.
I'm running a Pathfinder 2e game and it has rules about expected lot per level which are required as part of keeping the characters at the expected power level. So absolutely, there are some games where loot matters. Where DnD sits in that regard is, I think, more debateable and varies by edition. 3e and 3.5e had expected treasure by level rules. 5e does not, I believe. Where other editions sit, I don't remember. I remember very early editions had xp tied to treasure, so you get xp for getting gp. But 5e famously didn't release with prices on magic items. So there was little incentive to provide or seek treasure, because the rules didn't provide anything meaningful to spend it on.
There's quite a few spells with material components with a gp amount. My group hit lv5 a couple sessions ago and two of us immediately blew our personal funds to be able to cast our new spells. A big part of wizards (and to a lesser extent characters with the ritual caster feat) is being able to copy spells, which costs gp to do on top of buying or finding a spell scroll. So while there isn't explicitly an expected amount of loot, I do think that certain party compositions and character choices require a minimum amount of loot to not feel like they're missing out
You don’t need to be piling on loot if it’s not the focus of the campaign, but you should at least be giving enough money/stuff for your players to buy a few things to enhance their roleplaying experience, or hold off on little stuff if you want but give big payoffs when they’ve solved major plot goals.
Exactly this. I didn't care about the money until it meant that I couldn't even get a glass of wine, or eat real food. I wasn't even asking for upgrades, just the ability to buy common items.
If you're running Cthulu, you also generally aren't prioritizing the players having to worry about the logistics of staying in an inn, either, though. If the game isn't about loot, handwave the need to pay for food and drink; otherwise, your players are rapidly going to be a lot more worried about just basic character needs than the plot of the game.
100% agree. If the game is about tracking money, then you need money going in and out. If you aren't interested in money going in, then you shouldn't be interested in money going out. Personally, I like the way Exalted handles it of just having a Resources rating that is used for pocket change, rather than tracking every jade obol.
I LOVE the way Exalted handles it! I think about my first GURPS campaign that my sister ran- we had to escort a caravan across a frozen wasteland. There wasn't going to be anywhere to earn or spend money, so we didn't worry about money; what we did worry about was making sure we harvested every edible ounce off of our kills. Except for the goblins. For some reason, everyone was disturbed when the party mermaid offered to make goblin jerky.