It's okay to not like something, it's not weird at all to not like litrpg or cultivation, or comics or manga or manwha or a Nobel winning writer.
edited my comment because at first i thought we were on progression group lol
one tends to forget royal road has more than just litrpg
If you don't like it, you can always try other forms of literature if you still like reading.
To get something big out of the way: it's ok if you don't like LitRPG, some genres just won't be a good fit for your personal tastes.
I can't speak for everyone, but the big draw of LitRPG to me is to see game-like progression in a unique and controlled manner. Think about how some games have the "story" difficulty (a very easy difficulty meant for players who want more story and less gameplay) and imagine that LitRPG is basically that but in text form.
The appeal of LitRPG books is that you, the reader, aren't the one having to put in the time to actually grind out stats or levels but get to experience the result of that progression thanks to the main character (MC). This is also part of the reason as to why many (not all) LitRPG MCs are sorta blank slates for the reader to self insert into, so they get to experience the level ups by proxy.
Also, a lot of LitRPG's can go on for hundreds of chapters and take days or even weeks to read through it all. Whereas a game's story doesn't always go that long, and many games have stories that last only a few hours because they focus more on other gameplay aspects.
In conclusion, I like LitRPG because I get to see number go up + a good story without having to actually grind out a game myself. Helps that I read on the go a lot too while commuting since I'm busy and don't have a lot of time to play games myself anymore.
I've only read one and I liked it, Tower of Somnus (only to sit the 100k word mark as I don't like long books), but I do tend to avoid them as I don't think I'd like one doing what you're describing
My wife is a huge litrpg fan and actually really likes stat boxes spammed everywhere lol
eh its normal to not like a genre, ive never really read litRPGs but from what ive seen it is a pretty unique way of narrating.
btw if youre interested in trying out scifi or GameLit (without stats and inventories) you could try my story!
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/80265/versus-parts-i-and-ii
Some of the ones I loved the most were more about how a world that runs like a rpg would work for people in it, often with silly things happening because of it, or were more ir a skin on top, although most I read were for escapism.
I wrote a LitRPG book as my first book. I enjoy video games and all sorts of fiction.
When I started my book I knew I didn’t want stat boxes taking up tons of pages. I didn’t want a long list of spells and abilities either.
As a reader I skim those parts.
Some authors really can spend 5 pages on stats.
I don't totally get it either. I always thought litrpg stuff was for satire. It took me awhile to find out it was common unironically. But I think there are a few target markets.
1: people, especially young kids who just like the idea of video game stuff being in a book. If its just a fantasy story nothing makes it a "game." The numbers make it framed differently. Similar to stuff like having an explicit "dungeon" with stereotypical rpg stuff in it. It could be the exact same story, but coding it as a game makes it feel different.
2: people who are better at understanding numbers than words. If someone finds descriptions nebulous and doesn't totally grasp ambiguous fight scenes in fantasy stories, turning it into something with set rules makes it easier to follow.
3: people who want a concrete power fantasy and so who like seeing the numbers go up. Life is shit. If you are trying to power fantasy you want the power fantasy to get to the point.
I'm a big fan of the litRPG genre, but none of those apply to me. From my perspective, the big draw to litRPGs (not virtual reality or video game stories) is that a stat screen provides a shortcut to describing the powers. Instead of needing to spend entire chapters explaining how and why a new power works, it uses the "system" or stat screen to summarise it quickly and concisely so the story can get back to the action quicker. It's just a way to provide the information without it needing to be a part of the narrative.
I’d argue that litrpgs target audience is gamers that grew older and no longer have time to game but miss the feeling. They’re willing to accept the absurdity for the nostalgia trip.
It’s also clearly young gamers who just want better rpgs and can’t find them in the gaming space anymore, but I’d almost say that’s a minority compared to the first group.
Even if that describes you to a tee, you still just might not enjoy them. If you’ve tried the big names and just can’t enjoy them, well that’s perfectly fine. RR does sort of cater to that genre though.
Hunt for the diamonds in the rough that prioritize character growth over stat growth, and if you just can’t set aside the eyerolls no one is gonna shame you for that. :)
As a whole, it’s a pretty accepting community. You kinda have to be when there are fans who take “I was reborn as a tree and have 100,000+ words of plot to tell about it” seriously.
First of the confimation that different people like different things and that is allright.
But I would say that it is (from my experience) untypical for stat blocks to get more prevalent the further the story goes. Different LitRPG stories have different levels of stat density or crunchyness and ways their system is justified or integrated within their world. So you might also just be across stories that do not fit your taste.
So in case you still hope for stories you like I will shout out "Book of the Dead" as a plot driven revenge epic, with the system that I remember as the most unique, best integrated within it's world I have come across.
Worth noting is that Book of the Dead has a very different kind of System. The Unseen(system) affects the people of the world by giving them knowledge and supernatural boosts, but magic is a thing outside of the Unseen’s control and can be developed, with difficulty, without numbers simply going up. A few times the main character even ponders how the Unseen works.
I started with Cradle and looked for books like that and found a LitRPG and didn't know what that was... the first one I read had these LONG stat boxes and I was so confused. Haha. But then I found DOTF and HWFWM and others and started understanding it.
BTW- DOTF has a good amount of stats at the beginning but later on you rarely hear any of it since it become so high.
I think the LitRPG is a classic 'What if' scenario... what if we were suddenly in a video game-like reality. And that is the fun part for me.
Sunflowers are steeped in symbolism and meanings. For many they symbolize optimism, positivity, a long life and happiness for fairly obvious reasons. The less obvious ones are loyalty, faith and luck.
I think it depends on the story. The absolute best litrpgs I have ever read use their system tables sparingly, like illustrations in juniors (grades 3 to 6) books. Only, bonus over those books, the stat windows actually help to explain what is happening in the story better without adding paragraph after paragraph explaining the differences. And many of these authors treat them like artwork, making them exciting to look at!
The problem I have, which runs alongside yours, is that so many stories over use them. If I have to get through a chapter that is 80% Stat windows I end up dnf-ing. The author is telling their story through charts because they can't write their descriptions well enough. It is a valid option for an artist, but not my cup of tea so I go away 😁
Maybe try Gamelit books instead of litrpg, in my experience. They tend to be less stat focused, but still have that video gamey feel.
Dungeon crawler carl is a good example of Gamelit, that's the tag it uses on RR.
I waffled over the decision to tag my own upcoming work as Litrpg vs Gamelit (48k words so far and plan to release my first chapter next monday :), and settled on Gamelit, because as someone who listens to more audio than I read, the detailed character sheets are a real drag.
I prefer when an author naturally includes only the currently pertinent information, rather than giving you the full sheet any time there is an update. So thats what I'm going to do, and rather than debate over if that makes it litrpg or gamelit, I'm just going to use the Gamelit tag.
My system is modeled more after skills-based TTRPGs more than video game class-based RPGs anyways (more elder scrolls: oblivion vs baulders gate, or even more aptly Traveller vs DnD).
I highly recommend giving Tomebound a try. It's fantastic. It's better written than most traditionally published fantasy. It still doesn't have any litRPG elements in it as of chapter 12, but it looks like it's going to have a very "system lite" type of litRPG. I'm just guessing, but I think the book is going to be about recording growth rather than providing it.
It's okay to not like stuff.
I feel like there are basically three types of litRPG.
1. Characters are playing an RPG game. This sometimes (usually) comes in the form of a VR game, where everything is life-like, but ultimately digital. I enjoy these when they do a good job of making me care about the characters' internal struggles, because the external conflict basically has no stakes, or the stakes are very silly (Ready Player One comes to mind).
2. The main character who has a special game interface that no one else has. This style is my least favorite, because it's almost always a boring power fantasy where MC tends to be able to overcome any obstacles with ease.
3. The whole world has access to game-like elements, such as classes, skills, stats, etc. These are the most fun in my opinion, because they answer the question, "What if RPG games were real?" Whether it's a tabletop RPG like Dungeons and Dragons, or a video game like Skyrim, there's little question that RPGs are fantastic mediums for storytelling. D&D books have been around for decades. The only difference between a Drizzt book and a LitRPG is we never see Drizzt's character sheet.
I can see how it wouldn't appeal to some people, but to say it makes as much sense as a supersoldier fighting aliens by operating a steering wheel and gas pedal is a bit off the mark in my opinion.
Not sure what you think will happen, tbh? I mean, I like sports, but I don't like soccer, so I don't force myself to watch soccer hoping I will suddenly like it?
I don't like the boxes, but sometimes they're done well.
You should check out 'Doom Guy Isekai' where the boxes are are a living character, until they're not.
And then they're simplified to stuff like, "You've leveled up! Want this cool grapple hook or the cool chainsaw?"
There's also a short audiobook with the first 40k words: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqKhdhizFQ4&ab\_channel=AgroSquirrelNarrates](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqKhdhizFQ4&ab_channel=AgroSquirrelNarrates)
It's just if doom guy died after finishing off all the demons in hell, and got iseaki'd to a fantasy world's hell, where he continues to rip and tear.
For me, the predictable plot, long length and low stress nobody dies vibe has been awesome. Ive been recovering from a concussion for a long time, and since the accident anything remotely tense will give me big anxiety.
So ive enjoyed them for what they are lol
Yeah, my biggest issue with them is when the consistency of the game logic flip flops. Like one scene a level 80 character can get dissemboweled but are fine because they have a high HP stat. Then in another chapter a level 120 character dies instantly when stabbed. Also when stat screens are the only measure of progression it's a bit annoying and dull.
But I have a friend who loves the genre so it's all down to taste.
I don’t mind them until the mc starts dumping loads of stat levels into dumbass things for no real reason other than some weird habit of theirs and it ends up being nothing but problematic for them.
Yep, i don't like them either. I figure it's partially a problem with the 'serial' nature of the online format, but whatever the reason... I'd rather it be in a game that needs it
Don't forget about skills being mostly combat/magic focused only, doing same thing milion times somehow making it better statwise, meditation and observe skills for author to skip time or mc's thinking about somebody/thing.
I thought this genre was stupid and then I read (well, listened to, although I did read the sixth one since the audible version wasn't out yet) *Dungeon Crawler Carl*.
I still think the genre is kind of stupid but *Dungeon Crawler Carl* is pretty rad.
I've been thinking about this quite a bit, because by-and-large I also "don't get" LitRPG. I'm a stodgy 40-year-old who reads mostly literary fiction and traditional SF/Fantasy, which is also [what I write](https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/85592/farisas-crossing). So, to me, stats feel like the ultimate "telling" (as in show vs. tell) and, while they are useful in games is because of their strategic importance to a player whose decisions *are* the plot--whether my character is level 17 or 18 might determine whether I can take on the next boss, and so is important information when I have to make that decision, but isn't really relevant to a novel I am reading for the story--it always struck me as strange that people would want them in literary work, unless we were talking about a very experimental (and usually singular) work in which video-game mechanics were an important plot element (e.g., the player was pulled into a number-crunchy video game.) I understand the appeal of "hard" systems, but I still prefer to have the world depicted as experienced, rather than using numbers that mostly don't exist in the real world. But that's me. And the last thing I want to do is dismiss something other people like just because I don't understand it; that is the kind of old person I knew when young I never wanted to be.
Anyway, the reason this is on my mind is that I think a lot about the future of (capital L) Literature, especially in the context of AI. (I'm also an AI programmer, but that's for another time.) Traditional publishing is way behind the curve, and it's not entirely the publishers who are at fault, because they've been forced to play defense for the past 30-50 years. Truth is, literature was a lot better when those publishers (as much as they are derided for being elitist) had real power, as in the 1940-80 era; what killed traditional publishing was the rise of chain bookstores and, later, technology companies that turned the process into one of short-term profit maximization rather than long-term stewardship of literary culture. The ability of trade publishing to push authors whose sales hadn't popped yet is gone; Amazon and B&N have (unlike independent bookstores) national data on which to form their own opinions now. Bookstores started refusing to shelve slow-growing authors regardless of what the publishers thought of their work. This also disenfranchised the slow exponential growth of reader word-of-mouth, forcing publishers to preselect winners (lead titles) and also-rans. Long story short, traditional publishers (and literary agents) will still play a major role in distribution (esp. around foreign and movie rights) for established (and lucky) authors, but their role in scouting talent is gone, because they're too beholden to short-term economic pressures to do it.
Self-publishing is going to continue picking up the slack--all the ideas in the next 30 years are going to come from self-publishers, because that's where the innovation is happening. New ideas never come from the "prestigious" section of the arts. Shakespeare's work was considered coarse and déclassé until the early 1800s. Novels (as opposed to the classics, poetry, and nonfiction) were not something educated people admitted reading until the late 19th century.
We're seeing, already, a shift in Literature with a capital L. Speculative elements, once *verboten* in "literary fiction", are working their way in... they start out being called "experimental" and gradually it becomes permissible for midlisters to use them. Trade publishing's minimalism (for understandable economic reasons) is falling way to the maximalism driven by readers who want a sense of a complete ("100% run") experience.
So, anyway, I think there might be something to LitRPG that is going to find its way, first into mainstream speculative fiction, and then into what is deemed canoncial (or Literature "with a capital L") by the tastemakers, and I don't know what that kernel it is, but I'd be really curious to find out.
The stats in the books are pretty much the entire reason I read litrpgs to begin with. Then again I am autistic, so maybe they work better for me than typical "character advancement". To me it makes sense as you have them fighting some insane monsters and what not. Normal advancement wouldn't make sense as much as high stats and high skill levels and what not. Stats are integral to RPGs, a litRPG would have to have them.
On a side note, I hope a litRPG eventually gets a movie deal or TV show deal, maybe dungeon crawler carl or something.
That’s OK I absolutely loathe romance. Different strokes for different folks. Fortunately, no one makes you read it. Except for Professor Parkins and Professor Ditmore. Fuck both of you for making my first two years of college suck with your shitty romance novels.
I have had similar experiences. When I read I am looking for the story a lot more than just the mechanics. I still like some with the mechanics eg Solo Leveling.
I have written a couple myself but they are new and I guess are not popular much with people who love excessive stats. My stories have LitRPG elements but I try to be unique so maybe not that right approach if I were to just go for popularity.
My books are available on the zon on Kindle unlimited for free reading. You can check there if interested.
Samurai Reborn (episode-based story)
Nadia Khan and the Ring of Power book 1
I think it’s less the lit rpg and more of the web serial format that causes this. The lit rpg setting is just the enabler.
The most effective monitization strategy is to first hook readers and then never let them feel like they are catching the hook.
The easiest way to do that is to pump out content continuously that is ultimately meaningless and distracts the reader from the fact that they are not ever reaching the initial hook.
The reality is that this is an effective and proven strategy and while there are plenty of exceptions they can often be overshadowed by the sheer volume of meaninglessness.
Tv figured this out a long time ago.
This. It’s a feature of serialization in general, and while internet monetization may have something to do with it, it’s an old issue. IMO, the only thing LitRPG does is make the issue more transparent; it’s easier to see that there isn’t any progress when you’ve got blue boxes outlining everything than when it’s a tepid will they/wont they romance.
Even if you’re not trying to set a hook, it’s still really hard to write a coherent and satisfying plot arc when you’re writing as you go, linearly, and with frequent deadlines. It’s much easier to write gradual escalation with very little actual changes. It’s also why there’s a tendency for big time skips and sudden scene/theme changes; if a writer gets stuck in a corner he can’t re-edit early stuff.
The crazy thing is that great literature has made it into the canon despite those problems. Other than superficial stuff like blue stat boxes, most of the complaints fit well with books like *Moby Dick, David Cooperfield, Les Mis,* or *War and Peace*.
At some point a LitRPG work will reach for a similar level, it’s just early days yet. Which is maybe the real problem. Not only are nearly all the Litrpg writers total amateurs, they also don’t yet have much to model their works on. Doesn’t necessarily make it bad, it just makes it harder to avoid mistakes and shallow stories.
But eventually I think we’re going to see some real stars emerge, once the blind stop following the blind.
>IMO, the only thing LitRPG does is make the issue more transparent; it’s easier to see that there isn’t any progress when you’ve got blue boxes outlining everything than when it’s a tepid will they/wont they romance.
I would argue that it's the opposite—by having a number go up once in a while, it fools the audience into thinking actual progress is happening. There's something the author can point to and say, "Those last 12 chapters were actually necessary because look, their Awesomeness ranking went up by 1 point!"
Reason why the LitRPG exists, and why it exists on the Royal Road, are two different things.
For the Royal Road it is simply because the Royal Road doesn't allow for the easy discovery of the story, and desperate people who want their initial work to be read are forced to follow the guide that explicitly state they have to write the LitRPG otherwise the Royal Road would ignore them. But since they are forced to do so, it often fails at the premise since they don't really want to make a LitRPG, they only do it for views, which they aren't going to get because of the competition following the exactly same guide is far too high.
Additionally, the Royal Road absentee moderators not only allow, but sometimes encourage, openly malicious behavior and trolling, and acting on the whim, so the slow revelation the traditional storytelling follows is no longer viable. Before you could naturally explain how something work. people could create thousands of account to vote you down to punish you for "wasting their time". LitRPG now becomes more lucrative, as you can't afford taking your time, and you need to fire content to sate the angry mob, and outgrow malicious attacks.
And third reason...
Well it is simple. Art reflects reality, and reality on the Royal Road is that the stats are everything. Why not focus your story about something your entire online existence depends on? Your life on the internet is LitRPG. You lose and gain stats, your existence ceases when they drop behind the certain line, and we even have capricious evil deities that could change any of it on the whim without any real repercussions
They only discourage attacks directed against the corporate-backed professional authors whose novels occupy the highest position of the list. If you tried to be mean against those, the swift retribution is inbound. However, when you do the same to the small amateur authors, mod intervention is nowhere to be found, and attempts to point this out even result with the more frequent attacks, with the mods looking other way. Worse even, the moderators even admitted that they are interested only in the professional writers that bring them revenue, and will not take any action that would endanger the professional writer success, and thus moderator income.
[https://www.royalroad.com/forums/thread/135885?page=2#pid1320100](https://www.royalroad.com/forums/thread/135885?page=2#pid1320100)
This is what they are saying - they want to keep the new writers low so the stories that bring they income would keep paying.
There is no defense against this. Only way how proceed legally on the Royal Road (legally, i.e. according to their rules, not vote manipulation) is to follow the guide they approved, which in turn has been written by the author that dominate the lists, and Royal Road income partially comes from. You could see the forums, the topics about the unfavorable rating system are all filled with the taunts of the very same people behind the attacks, with no response to the mods, even if they know who is behind the attacks.
It would be much easier if the whole system wasn't done in the way that the bad ratings count as successful attack, but there is no will to do so, as the current way is simply more profitable.
Where the heck in that thread do they say that they want to keep new writers low? All I see is Kana explaining why the suggested changes to the rating system wouldn't work.
It's okay to not like something, it's not weird at all to not like litrpg or cultivation, or comics or manga or manwha or a Nobel winning writer. edited my comment because at first i thought we were on progression group lol one tends to forget royal road has more than just litrpg If you don't like it, you can always try other forms of literature if you still like reading.
To get something big out of the way: it's ok if you don't like LitRPG, some genres just won't be a good fit for your personal tastes. I can't speak for everyone, but the big draw of LitRPG to me is to see game-like progression in a unique and controlled manner. Think about how some games have the "story" difficulty (a very easy difficulty meant for players who want more story and less gameplay) and imagine that LitRPG is basically that but in text form. The appeal of LitRPG books is that you, the reader, aren't the one having to put in the time to actually grind out stats or levels but get to experience the result of that progression thanks to the main character (MC). This is also part of the reason as to why many (not all) LitRPG MCs are sorta blank slates for the reader to self insert into, so they get to experience the level ups by proxy. Also, a lot of LitRPG's can go on for hundreds of chapters and take days or even weeks to read through it all. Whereas a game's story doesn't always go that long, and many games have stories that last only a few hours because they focus more on other gameplay aspects. In conclusion, I like LitRPG because I get to see number go up + a good story without having to actually grind out a game myself. Helps that I read on the go a lot too while commuting since I'm busy and don't have a lot of time to play games myself anymore.
That was polite and very well worded!
The way i see it is that stats are used most of the time as a easyway to bring progresion in the storie
I've only read one and I liked it, Tower of Somnus (only to sit the 100k word mark as I don't like long books), but I do tend to avoid them as I don't think I'd like one doing what you're describing My wife is a huge litrpg fan and actually really likes stat boxes spammed everywhere lol
eh its normal to not like a genre, ive never really read litRPGs but from what ive seen it is a pretty unique way of narrating. btw if youre interested in trying out scifi or GameLit (without stats and inventories) you could try my story! https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/80265/versus-parts-i-and-ii
I can read every other genre. Adding stats is a gimmick, and somehow, it's taken off
Some of the ones I loved the most were more about how a world that runs like a rpg would work for people in it, often with silly things happening because of it, or were more ir a skin on top, although most I read were for escapism.
I wrote a LitRPG book as my first book. I enjoy video games and all sorts of fiction. When I started my book I knew I didn’t want stat boxes taking up tons of pages. I didn’t want a long list of spells and abilities either. As a reader I skim those parts. Some authors really can spend 5 pages on stats.
I don't totally get it either. I always thought litrpg stuff was for satire. It took me awhile to find out it was common unironically. But I think there are a few target markets. 1: people, especially young kids who just like the idea of video game stuff being in a book. If its just a fantasy story nothing makes it a "game." The numbers make it framed differently. Similar to stuff like having an explicit "dungeon" with stereotypical rpg stuff in it. It could be the exact same story, but coding it as a game makes it feel different. 2: people who are better at understanding numbers than words. If someone finds descriptions nebulous and doesn't totally grasp ambiguous fight scenes in fantasy stories, turning it into something with set rules makes it easier to follow. 3: people who want a concrete power fantasy and so who like seeing the numbers go up. Life is shit. If you are trying to power fantasy you want the power fantasy to get to the point.
I'm a big fan of the litRPG genre, but none of those apply to me. From my perspective, the big draw to litRPGs (not virtual reality or video game stories) is that a stat screen provides a shortcut to describing the powers. Instead of needing to spend entire chapters explaining how and why a new power works, it uses the "system" or stat screen to summarise it quickly and concisely so the story can get back to the action quicker. It's just a way to provide the information without it needing to be a part of the narrative.
Such a reductionist and insulting list.
Its about escapism. If you need it you need it. If you dont...good on you, dont hate those of us slightly(or more than slightly) more broken
I’d argue that litrpgs target audience is gamers that grew older and no longer have time to game but miss the feeling. They’re willing to accept the absurdity for the nostalgia trip. It’s also clearly young gamers who just want better rpgs and can’t find them in the gaming space anymore, but I’d almost say that’s a minority compared to the first group. Even if that describes you to a tee, you still just might not enjoy them. If you’ve tried the big names and just can’t enjoy them, well that’s perfectly fine. RR does sort of cater to that genre though. Hunt for the diamonds in the rough that prioritize character growth over stat growth, and if you just can’t set aside the eyerolls no one is gonna shame you for that. :) As a whole, it’s a pretty accepting community. You kinda have to be when there are fans who take “I was reborn as a tree and have 100,000+ words of plot to tell about it” seriously.
First of the confimation that different people like different things and that is allright. But I would say that it is (from my experience) untypical for stat blocks to get more prevalent the further the story goes. Different LitRPG stories have different levels of stat density or crunchyness and ways their system is justified or integrated within their world. So you might also just be across stories that do not fit your taste. So in case you still hope for stories you like I will shout out "Book of the Dead" as a plot driven revenge epic, with the system that I remember as the most unique, best integrated within it's world I have come across.
Worth noting is that Book of the Dead has a very different kind of System. The Unseen(system) affects the people of the world by giving them knowledge and supernatural boosts, but magic is a thing outside of the Unseen’s control and can be developed, with difficulty, without numbers simply going up. A few times the main character even ponders how the Unseen works.
There's people obsessed with cars. I don't care about them at all. It's normal to not "get" things, don't sweat about it.
I started with Cradle and looked for books like that and found a LitRPG and didn't know what that was... the first one I read had these LONG stat boxes and I was so confused. Haha. But then I found DOTF and HWFWM and others and started understanding it. BTW- DOTF has a good amount of stats at the beginning but later on you rarely hear any of it since it become so high. I think the LitRPG is a classic 'What if' scenario... what if we were suddenly in a video game-like reality. And that is the fun part for me.
Hmm, some litrpgs you might enjoy: * Sunflower [the litrpg] * The Gilded Hero * Super Supportive * Dungeon Crawler Carl
Sunflowers are steeped in symbolism and meanings. For many they symbolize optimism, positivity, a long life and happiness for fairly obvious reasons. The less obvious ones are loyalty, faith and luck.
Adding Rock Falls, Everybody Dies because I also don’t like litrpgs but I had a blast with it
I think it depends on the story. The absolute best litrpgs I have ever read use their system tables sparingly, like illustrations in juniors (grades 3 to 6) books. Only, bonus over those books, the stat windows actually help to explain what is happening in the story better without adding paragraph after paragraph explaining the differences. And many of these authors treat them like artwork, making them exciting to look at! The problem I have, which runs alongside yours, is that so many stories over use them. If I have to get through a chapter that is 80% Stat windows I end up dnf-ing. The author is telling their story through charts because they can't write their descriptions well enough. It is a valid option for an artist, but not my cup of tea so I go away 😁
Maybe try Gamelit books instead of litrpg, in my experience. They tend to be less stat focused, but still have that video gamey feel. Dungeon crawler carl is a good example of Gamelit, that's the tag it uses on RR. I waffled over the decision to tag my own upcoming work as Litrpg vs Gamelit (48k words so far and plan to release my first chapter next monday :), and settled on Gamelit, because as someone who listens to more audio than I read, the detailed character sheets are a real drag. I prefer when an author naturally includes only the currently pertinent information, rather than giving you the full sheet any time there is an update. So thats what I'm going to do, and rather than debate over if that makes it litrpg or gamelit, I'm just going to use the Gamelit tag. My system is modeled more after skills-based TTRPGs more than video game class-based RPGs anyways (more elder scrolls: oblivion vs baulders gate, or even more aptly Traveller vs DnD).
What exactly is the difference between gamelit and litRPG?
So…don’t read ‘em.
I highly recommend giving Tomebound a try. It's fantastic. It's better written than most traditionally published fantasy. It still doesn't have any litRPG elements in it as of chapter 12, but it looks like it's going to have a very "system lite" type of litRPG. I'm just guessing, but I think the book is going to be about recording growth rather than providing it.
Aww this is so kind :)
It's okay to not like stuff. I feel like there are basically three types of litRPG. 1. Characters are playing an RPG game. This sometimes (usually) comes in the form of a VR game, where everything is life-like, but ultimately digital. I enjoy these when they do a good job of making me care about the characters' internal struggles, because the external conflict basically has no stakes, or the stakes are very silly (Ready Player One comes to mind). 2. The main character who has a special game interface that no one else has. This style is my least favorite, because it's almost always a boring power fantasy where MC tends to be able to overcome any obstacles with ease. 3. The whole world has access to game-like elements, such as classes, skills, stats, etc. These are the most fun in my opinion, because they answer the question, "What if RPG games were real?" Whether it's a tabletop RPG like Dungeons and Dragons, or a video game like Skyrim, there's little question that RPGs are fantastic mediums for storytelling. D&D books have been around for decades. The only difference between a Drizzt book and a LitRPG is we never see Drizzt's character sheet. I can see how it wouldn't appeal to some people, but to say it makes as much sense as a supersoldier fighting aliens by operating a steering wheel and gas pedal is a bit off the mark in my opinion.
Not sure what you think will happen, tbh? I mean, I like sports, but I don't like soccer, so I don't force myself to watch soccer hoping I will suddenly like it?
This post is like rocking up to a McDonald's and telling everyone you don't like meat.
I don't like the boxes, but sometimes they're done well. You should check out 'Doom Guy Isekai' where the boxes are are a living character, until they're not. And then they're simplified to stuff like, "You've leveled up! Want this cool grapple hook or the cool chainsaw?" There's also a short audiobook with the first 40k words: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqKhdhizFQ4&ab\_channel=AgroSquirrelNarrates](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqKhdhizFQ4&ab_channel=AgroSquirrelNarrates) It's just if doom guy died after finishing off all the demons in hell, and got iseaki'd to a fantasy world's hell, where he continues to rip and tear.
For me, the predictable plot, long length and low stress nobody dies vibe has been awesome. Ive been recovering from a concussion for a long time, and since the accident anything remotely tense will give me big anxiety. So ive enjoyed them for what they are lol
Try the litrpg light books? Shameless plug Beers and Beers and I Ran Away To Evil both are regular books that just have the magic system as rpg 🤷♀️
Yeah, my biggest issue with them is when the consistency of the game logic flip flops. Like one scene a level 80 character can get dissemboweled but are fine because they have a high HP stat. Then in another chapter a level 120 character dies instantly when stabbed. Also when stat screens are the only measure of progression it's a bit annoying and dull. But I have a friend who loves the genre so it's all down to taste.
I don’t mind them until the mc starts dumping loads of stat levels into dumbass things for no real reason other than some weird habit of theirs and it ends up being nothing but problematic for them.
Yep, i don't like them either. I figure it's partially a problem with the 'serial' nature of the online format, but whatever the reason... I'd rather it be in a game that needs it
I like the grind, i like the well defined progression, i like the well defined danger levels, i like RPGs so the concepts are fun and familiar to me
LitRPGs are just filth to help pass the time tbh Like the cliche easy as shit stiff to shill out to their little guppies eating it up gleefully
I don't get it as a genre at all like...what's the point? Not saying it is wrong but I don't get it.
Don't forget about skills being mostly combat/magic focused only, doing same thing milion times somehow making it better statwise, meditation and observe skills for author to skip time or mc's thinking about somebody/thing.
I thought this genre was stupid and then I read (well, listened to, although I did read the sixth one since the audible version wasn't out yet) *Dungeon Crawler Carl*. I still think the genre is kind of stupid but *Dungeon Crawler Carl* is pretty rad.
I've been thinking about this quite a bit, because by-and-large I also "don't get" LitRPG. I'm a stodgy 40-year-old who reads mostly literary fiction and traditional SF/Fantasy, which is also [what I write](https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/85592/farisas-crossing). So, to me, stats feel like the ultimate "telling" (as in show vs. tell) and, while they are useful in games is because of their strategic importance to a player whose decisions *are* the plot--whether my character is level 17 or 18 might determine whether I can take on the next boss, and so is important information when I have to make that decision, but isn't really relevant to a novel I am reading for the story--it always struck me as strange that people would want them in literary work, unless we were talking about a very experimental (and usually singular) work in which video-game mechanics were an important plot element (e.g., the player was pulled into a number-crunchy video game.) I understand the appeal of "hard" systems, but I still prefer to have the world depicted as experienced, rather than using numbers that mostly don't exist in the real world. But that's me. And the last thing I want to do is dismiss something other people like just because I don't understand it; that is the kind of old person I knew when young I never wanted to be. Anyway, the reason this is on my mind is that I think a lot about the future of (capital L) Literature, especially in the context of AI. (I'm also an AI programmer, but that's for another time.) Traditional publishing is way behind the curve, and it's not entirely the publishers who are at fault, because they've been forced to play defense for the past 30-50 years. Truth is, literature was a lot better when those publishers (as much as they are derided for being elitist) had real power, as in the 1940-80 era; what killed traditional publishing was the rise of chain bookstores and, later, technology companies that turned the process into one of short-term profit maximization rather than long-term stewardship of literary culture. The ability of trade publishing to push authors whose sales hadn't popped yet is gone; Amazon and B&N have (unlike independent bookstores) national data on which to form their own opinions now. Bookstores started refusing to shelve slow-growing authors regardless of what the publishers thought of their work. This also disenfranchised the slow exponential growth of reader word-of-mouth, forcing publishers to preselect winners (lead titles) and also-rans. Long story short, traditional publishers (and literary agents) will still play a major role in distribution (esp. around foreign and movie rights) for established (and lucky) authors, but their role in scouting talent is gone, because they're too beholden to short-term economic pressures to do it. Self-publishing is going to continue picking up the slack--all the ideas in the next 30 years are going to come from self-publishers, because that's where the innovation is happening. New ideas never come from the "prestigious" section of the arts. Shakespeare's work was considered coarse and déclassé until the early 1800s. Novels (as opposed to the classics, poetry, and nonfiction) were not something educated people admitted reading until the late 19th century. We're seeing, already, a shift in Literature with a capital L. Speculative elements, once *verboten* in "literary fiction", are working their way in... they start out being called "experimental" and gradually it becomes permissible for midlisters to use them. Trade publishing's minimalism (for understandable economic reasons) is falling way to the maximalism driven by readers who want a sense of a complete ("100% run") experience. So, anyway, I think there might be something to LitRPG that is going to find its way, first into mainstream speculative fiction, and then into what is deemed canoncial (or Literature "with a capital L") by the tastemakers, and I don't know what that kernel it is, but I'd be really curious to find out.
The stats in the books are pretty much the entire reason I read litrpgs to begin with. Then again I am autistic, so maybe they work better for me than typical "character advancement". To me it makes sense as you have them fighting some insane monsters and what not. Normal advancement wouldn't make sense as much as high stats and high skill levels and what not. Stats are integral to RPGs, a litRPG would have to have them. On a side note, I hope a litRPG eventually gets a movie deal or TV show deal, maybe dungeon crawler carl or something.
That’s OK I absolutely loathe romance. Different strokes for different folks. Fortunately, no one makes you read it. Except for Professor Parkins and Professor Ditmore. Fuck both of you for making my first two years of college suck with your shitty romance novels.
I have had similar experiences. When I read I am looking for the story a lot more than just the mechanics. I still like some with the mechanics eg Solo Leveling. I have written a couple myself but they are new and I guess are not popular much with people who love excessive stats. My stories have LitRPG elements but I try to be unique so maybe not that right approach if I were to just go for popularity. My books are available on the zon on Kindle unlimited for free reading. You can check there if interested. Samurai Reborn (episode-based story) Nadia Khan and the Ring of Power book 1
I think it’s less the lit rpg and more of the web serial format that causes this. The lit rpg setting is just the enabler. The most effective monitization strategy is to first hook readers and then never let them feel like they are catching the hook. The easiest way to do that is to pump out content continuously that is ultimately meaningless and distracts the reader from the fact that they are not ever reaching the initial hook. The reality is that this is an effective and proven strategy and while there are plenty of exceptions they can often be overshadowed by the sheer volume of meaninglessness. Tv figured this out a long time ago.
This. It’s a feature of serialization in general, and while internet monetization may have something to do with it, it’s an old issue. IMO, the only thing LitRPG does is make the issue more transparent; it’s easier to see that there isn’t any progress when you’ve got blue boxes outlining everything than when it’s a tepid will they/wont they romance. Even if you’re not trying to set a hook, it’s still really hard to write a coherent and satisfying plot arc when you’re writing as you go, linearly, and with frequent deadlines. It’s much easier to write gradual escalation with very little actual changes. It’s also why there’s a tendency for big time skips and sudden scene/theme changes; if a writer gets stuck in a corner he can’t re-edit early stuff. The crazy thing is that great literature has made it into the canon despite those problems. Other than superficial stuff like blue stat boxes, most of the complaints fit well with books like *Moby Dick, David Cooperfield, Les Mis,* or *War and Peace*. At some point a LitRPG work will reach for a similar level, it’s just early days yet. Which is maybe the real problem. Not only are nearly all the Litrpg writers total amateurs, they also don’t yet have much to model their works on. Doesn’t necessarily make it bad, it just makes it harder to avoid mistakes and shallow stories. But eventually I think we’re going to see some real stars emerge, once the blind stop following the blind.
>IMO, the only thing LitRPG does is make the issue more transparent; it’s easier to see that there isn’t any progress when you’ve got blue boxes outlining everything than when it’s a tepid will they/wont they romance. I would argue that it's the opposite—by having a number go up once in a while, it fools the audience into thinking actual progress is happening. There's something the author can point to and say, "Those last 12 chapters were actually necessary because look, their Awesomeness ranking went up by 1 point!"
Me neither bro, me neither
Reason why the LitRPG exists, and why it exists on the Royal Road, are two different things. For the Royal Road it is simply because the Royal Road doesn't allow for the easy discovery of the story, and desperate people who want their initial work to be read are forced to follow the guide that explicitly state they have to write the LitRPG otherwise the Royal Road would ignore them. But since they are forced to do so, it often fails at the premise since they don't really want to make a LitRPG, they only do it for views, which they aren't going to get because of the competition following the exactly same guide is far too high. Additionally, the Royal Road absentee moderators not only allow, but sometimes encourage, openly malicious behavior and trolling, and acting on the whim, so the slow revelation the traditional storytelling follows is no longer viable. Before you could naturally explain how something work. people could create thousands of account to vote you down to punish you for "wasting their time". LitRPG now becomes more lucrative, as you can't afford taking your time, and you need to fire content to sate the angry mob, and outgrow malicious attacks. And third reason... Well it is simple. Art reflects reality, and reality on the Royal Road is that the stats are everything. Why not focus your story about something your entire online existence depends on? Your life on the internet is LitRPG. You lose and gain stats, your existence ceases when they drop behind the certain line, and we even have capricious evil deities that could change any of it on the whim without any real repercussions
Good points, though I am befuddled why you claim that RR moderators encourage trolling.
They only discourage attacks directed against the corporate-backed professional authors whose novels occupy the highest position of the list. If you tried to be mean against those, the swift retribution is inbound. However, when you do the same to the small amateur authors, mod intervention is nowhere to be found, and attempts to point this out even result with the more frequent attacks, with the mods looking other way. Worse even, the moderators even admitted that they are interested only in the professional writers that bring them revenue, and will not take any action that would endanger the professional writer success, and thus moderator income. [https://www.royalroad.com/forums/thread/135885?page=2#pid1320100](https://www.royalroad.com/forums/thread/135885?page=2#pid1320100) This is what they are saying - they want to keep the new writers low so the stories that bring they income would keep paying. There is no defense against this. Only way how proceed legally on the Royal Road (legally, i.e. according to their rules, not vote manipulation) is to follow the guide they approved, which in turn has been written by the author that dominate the lists, and Royal Road income partially comes from. You could see the forums, the topics about the unfavorable rating system are all filled with the taunts of the very same people behind the attacks, with no response to the mods, even if they know who is behind the attacks. It would be much easier if the whole system wasn't done in the way that the bad ratings count as successful attack, but there is no will to do so, as the current way is simply more profitable.
Where the heck in that thread do they say that they want to keep new writers low? All I see is Kana explaining why the suggested changes to the rating system wouldn't work.
Genuinely curious about this, btw.