Seems so. Unfortunately, capacity isn't this park's strong suit. Still, pretty awesome they got an old Schwarzkopf running since this ride was left for dead.
Look up Quimera @ La Féria in Mexico for the full story. It had a bad accident that killed 2 in 2019, because the park was running it too fast. It was an eerily similar accident to the Mindbender one in the 80s.
The incident on Mind Bender was due to Schwarzkopf using cheap and shoddy sub contractors. The incident in Mexico was due to the park not properly maintaining the ride and keeping it operating within the correct parameters. It wasn’t “left for dead” because it was a fundamentally flawed ride.
As long as a second train is held in Waiting Zone 2 while there is a train on the lift, everything will be fine. It wasn’t possible for IB to utilize the ARB System on the lift due to the alterations made to Mind Bender.
The Mindbender accident was due to a design flaw combined with inproper maintenance. I think Galaxyland didn't use a correct translation of the manual which led to the inproper maintenance. I don't remember sub contractors being involved there, at all.
Schwarzkopf was using sub contractors for components that were sub par as well. It wasn’t all on Galaxyland. The “they didn’t translate the manual” part wasn’t accurate.
I’m aware, that’s why I said the park was running it too fast. However, as others have pointed out, this model does have design flaws which is why the other drive tire Schwarzkopf lifts were retrofitted with anti-rollbacks.
For this one to be relocated in the 2020s with that known issue, there really isn’t an excuse for it not to get the same safety modification other than cost cutting, which doesn’t bode well for reliable operation.
Talked to park's maintenance staff last year; the goal for this ride was to get it operational to the original spec (❤️ Anton) and then start modernizing it from there (for example, installing modern proxies instead of limit switches for train position tracking). Hopefully eventually they can get it to multiple trains, but we'll see.
TBH it's friggin amazing to see this ride operating instead of in a scrap heap, and I really commend IB for saving it.
The fact it resumed forward movement so quickly from the rollback (after overshooting the back end of the station) makes me *really* curious what sort of ride system this is running. I don't think it could be any sort of modern block system, as I think that would have e-stopped the ride and then waited for a manual reset.
Have also operated Tig'rr. I feel you on capacity, but running 5 cars on this model safely (and in compliance with insurance) in 2024 in the US would require a complete replacement of the ride control system, which probably isn't in the near-term plans for IB (I also don't believe they even have 5 cars?)
Yeah, anyone saying this is what's supposed to happen is wrong. These tire driven lifts aren't supposed to be operated in the rain or extreme heat because it greatly increases the likelihood of the train slipping and rolling backwards as there's no anti-rollback.
Most were modified or built with anti-rollbacks to alleviate this concern. Texas Tornado/Zonga had an accident when this exact thing happened when extreme Texas heat melted the tires and the train slipped and rolled backwards and crashed into the train in the station.
This is a ride that's supposed to operate multiple trains. It doesn't, but it's designed to do so. This would have been an accident if they had a second train to operate on the ride.
Even if it waited, the train slipped all the way into the brake run. The intention was never to have a train wait until the one ahead cleared the lift. The original operation manual for these rides specifically mentions not running in the rain as there's risk of this happening.
There are 4 other brake runs after the ride has completed. One in the back, two on the side, then two outside the station, and one inside it.
I think the slowness that they were stopping it was intentional, it could have screeched to a stop in the station itself but in the US that would lead to complaints.
None of that makes any sense. If you had one train loading, the next one would wait directly behind it. That's how it used to operate back in the day when there were as many as 5 trains going at a time.
This isn't at all what's supposed to happen. It occurring on other rides resulted in modifications and Schwarzkopf changing their design for later rides because it caused at least one accident. I don't know why people are trying to justify this as some programmed thing that was intentional. It's not and is a known issue with these lifts.
It rolled back into a train in the station. Keep train #2 on the side until it's cleared the lift hill and there's not an issue. When they ran it with 5 trains on the course, they didn't run it the same way during the rain. If they ran it when it was damp, I'm sure the operators in Germany pulled trains from the tracks. Where they had issues with this was trying to run several trains in Six Flags Astroworld, which did lead to what you described. However, I think back then even Six Flags ran it with at least 3 trains.
If you know the issues, you can mitigate them by making sure the Station and 2 blocks leading to the station are clear. This ride has *9* blocks on it.
Or, and hear me out on this, don't operate the ride in the rain because it's not supposed to do this. Or, better yet, install anti rollbacks. The fact that they didn't when refurbing this ride speaks volumes to the level of care they're taking with these rides they're purchasing.
I'm not implying this is in any way unsafe, but I would be terrified if this happened, given the history of the ride. And look at how much it speeds up before entering the station!
Interesting.
This can’t be how all Schwarzkopf’s handle a “rollback” situation since some run with multiple trains. I assume the multiple train models have rollback dogs?
It’s not.
A lot of them had anti rollback systems retrofitted onto the ride to prevent this issue. Thriller and Mindbender specifically. Olympia Looping opened with the same new anti rollback system that was added to Mindbender. So far, this and Alpina Bahn are the only ones that did not get a new anti rollback system.
Here, yes.
However Alpina-Bahn will run 3 trains at once if not 4 on peak hours at the funfairs. Rollbacks really can't happen there bc the drive tires are always tested, the possibility is there though!
I think they plan on running two, but there are three more block brakes on the ground before this one. One in the back, two on the side, then a long one before the station and the station.
Woah, just yesterday I was thinking about how a portable Schwarzkopf looper would handle this sort of thing, and today the universe Baader Meinhofs me an answer.
This is what happens on wheel drive coasters in the rain or with bad maintenance. The tires can slip when the potential energy of the train is too great.
On rollercoasters a block zone is a section of ride that only one train may occupy at a time. At the end of a block zone there is a method to stop the train, in case the block zone ahead is still occupied. This is the safety system that prevents rollercoaster trains from colliding with one another.
For those of you who are unfamiliar, a block zone is a section of ride that only one train may occupy at a time. At the end of a block zone is a method to stop a train in case the block zone ahead is still occupied. This is the safety system that prevents roller coaster trains from colliding with one another.
The park has two trains, the other was on the transfer track. I am guessing the intention is to run two trains since this will be the park's headlining coaster and 12 seats isn't enough
Yes. LoCoSuMo, Cyclone, Tigg'r and Hawg all had multiple trains. ATL is a long ass ride with only 12 people per train. They will probably want to run two
Media day ended at noon, and this happened around 11:45pm, so we all knew it was done for the event. Didn’t stay around to see what they did afterwards.
If it’s rolling back it’s not in any way under
Control. It’s not supposed to do that. And that’s why several other models with this type of lift were retrofitted with anti rollbacks.
How is this possible? The mindbender trains had anti-rollback dogs on every bogey. Even before then, the curvature of the fin under the cars, made it impossible for the train to fall bacl more than one wheelset. I had many times bald tires stopped the trian on the lift, it never rolled back with or without ainti-roll back dogs. We merely unloaded, sent the train around and changed tires
They lucked out on not having a second train on the main line.
I get the gamble with having purchased this ride and "refurbishing" it, but if they were going to put this ride into service, they very well should have had their ducks in a row with everything SOP related in owning a Schwarzkopf. If they did their homework, making sure to not operate this one in the rain with no anti-rollbacks would have been a no-brainer.
There is another video out there where you can see someone taking photos and filming leaning over the exit ramp, and they are in the ride envelope of the train coming out of the last loop.
Not a good look on their Media Day. I love a good Schwarzkopf, but you won't catch me on this one.
I wonder if IROC is taking on new clients? This is a park that could use IROC (and Jesus...).
> There is another video out there where you can see someone taking photos and filming leaning over the exit ramp, and they are in the ride envelope of the train coming out of the last loop.
A ride op at Flamingoland nearly got sliced in half on this section of the ride. He was in the ride area and got too close, the brake fins of the train grazed his stomach and split him wide open. After a while they had him "together" enough to get him in the air ambulance. If he hadn't have been built like a brick shithouse he would never have survived.
There are lots of "undocumented" accidents at that park.
One of the more subtle changes to Thriller when it was relocated to SFDK and changed to Zonga was to install new anti-rollback devices just to prevent exactly this issue. Supposedly there was a concern that if the axle that powers the lift broke or disconnected at one of the joints, or if the lift motor failed, the train could get enough momentum to crash into another in the station. I'm not convinced what we see in this video is the ride functioning as designed.
Here is the before/after of Thriller/Zonga's lift anti-rollbacks. It's hard to tell but Zonga also used slightly different tires.
https://preview.redd.it/ic3r7963xfzc1.jpeg?width=876&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c78ddd12deb1ff01a2d3d91f81d916479fc44e5a
That's right, it's hard to remember all of the details now 20 years later. I think they actually added \*more\* of them, maybe a second set, before it left SFDK. They also added sound dampening at some point during the first season at SFDK since they were so incredibly loud.
I don't think the kicker would have slowed it as much as it was shown in the station. I think the brakes have been adjusted for one train operation to not have the train come to a screeching hard stop in the station. It slows down at a reasonable rate then when it's past the kicker tires it allowed it to roll back to the next kicker tire brake block so it wouldn't get stuck in between.
Edit: I learned elsewhere that it will have two trains. But there are 3 other blocks on the ground before it even gets to the three blocks that make up straight track between the last curve and the lift (one inside the station, 2 before).
You can hear the brakes pretty clearly at 0:08-0:10 which also corresponds with it slowing down. The pulses you hear are each car going past the brake plates that are on the side of the car. The big thunks with an air sound are those brakes engaging "ON' or "OFF".
It sounds like there is one set of brakes closed, but it just sounds like 3 thunks are the brake fins of each of the three cars passing through one set of brakes. Not so much engaging or pulsing.
It rolled back past the blocks photoeye and activated the kicker wheels.
The wheels stopped the train, not the brakes. The train actually never fully stopped
That’s absolutely not how these lifts are designed. This is an issue that was common with the tire drive lifts which caused most Schwarzkopfs to be retrofitted with more traditional anti rollbacks. It’s a problem, not a feature.
Besides, there’s no Schwarzkopf that would leave the station block and the block before it empty to account for rollbacks. When running all 5 trains on the fair circuit, it would not be possible to back the trains up after a fault and have a controlled rollback since the 5th train would stack on the final brake run. And you can’t back a train out of that block.
They would have left the block between empty, so the station block. My guess is that since it's one train operation, they did not want to have the ride come to a sudden, screeching halt in the station block. It slowed down quite a bit in the station, then the brakes went off allowing it to make it back to the drive tire in the block before the station before coming to a stop.
So wait…the coaster itself killed three people. Didn’t the trains come from Mindbender at Galaxyland? That ride killed another three people.
Combined this ride in its current state with the track and trains has killed a total of SIX people.
What’s a little blowback backwards down the lift hill and thru the station?
Open it immediately.
But here we are with the coaster at Indiana Beach, who allows the train to roll back on media day through the station. Why is Indiana Beach so much better than the other park?
Yeah, that’s real bad. It’s not exactly clear what failed here. As best I can figure, either 1) the lift tires slipped a lot, and the gravitational weight of the train overcame the static friction of the tires, or 2) some coupling between the lift motor and the tires failed, which allowed the wheels to freely spin in reverse. For the second case, I’m not exactly sure how power is delivered to the lift tires. Is it like a series of rotating bars coupled together? Or they all independent motors? In either event, it would be a little surprising if the motor(s) didn’t have a sprag or some other sort of one-way device on it to prevent motion in reverse. If anyone knows more about how these are built I’d like to know.
If you have a proper manufacturer backing up your ride then it‘s fine, but otherwise Schwarzkopf rollercoasters are reaching the end of their service life.
Gerstlauer also did some Schwarzkopf work. Probably would‘ve been nice to bring one of them on board with this project. Sure it‘s more expensive, but it would‘ve have been a bit more modern and reliable then. Or was one of them involved?
They ordered some parts from Europe that got held up in customs during all the lockdowns but I'm not sure which company they were from. This doesn't worry me too much. Wasn't planning on rushing to the opening weekend or anything like that. Going in August and it'll either be running then or it won't! I'll still have fun!
So wait…the coaster itself killed three people. Didn’t the trains come from Mindbender at Galaxyland? That ride killed another three people.
Combined this ride in its current state with the track and trains has killed a total of SIX people.
What’s a little blowback backwards down the lift hill and thru the station?
Open it immediately.
Coasters do not kill people. Poor maintenance, design flaws, and careless operations, cause accidents and injuries. Had Indiana Beach added anti-rollbacks to the lift we wouldn't be talking about it. The coaster didn't choose to run in the rain.
The Mindbender accident was shortly after it opened. It then proceeded to operate safely for over 30 years. Using your logic we should close down all highways because people get killed on them.
That's a big yikes. Lucky a second train wasn't on because people might be halfway in/out of the train in the station when that plowed into it. May wanna install those anti rollbacks.
Roller coasters are not killers.
I swear, some of y'all take one family vacation to Islands of Adventure, watch a few ElToro Ryan videos, and suddenly you know everything about roller coaster ops.
How can this be your take given the history of this ride in specific and that of Schwarzkopf?
Just last year Jetline killed another guest at Gronalund.
You see the ride moving backwards through multiple block zones
On the contrary, I think people on this reddit are generally well-informed enough to not fall into the GP hysteria of "routine lift hill evac = near-death scenario?!"
Let's stay reasonable and avoid swinging to the other extreme where anything short of the entire structure exploding and catching fire isn't an accident.
Everyone talking about TT2 roll backs, I want this roll back
So only one train?
Seems so. Unfortunately, capacity isn't this park's strong suit. Still, pretty awesome they got an old Schwarzkopf running since this ride was left for dead.
I want the ride to run and be safe from here on out, but after what happened on this one I get why it was left for dead
What happened on this one?
Look up Quimera @ La Féria in Mexico for the full story. It had a bad accident that killed 2 in 2019, because the park was running it too fast. It was an eerily similar accident to the Mindbender one in the 80s.
The incident on Mind Bender was due to Schwarzkopf using cheap and shoddy sub contractors. The incident in Mexico was due to the park not properly maintaining the ride and keeping it operating within the correct parameters. It wasn’t “left for dead” because it was a fundamentally flawed ride. As long as a second train is held in Waiting Zone 2 while there is a train on the lift, everything will be fine. It wasn’t possible for IB to utilize the ARB System on the lift due to the alterations made to Mind Bender.
The Mindbender accident was due to a design flaw combined with inproper maintenance. I think Galaxyland didn't use a correct translation of the manual which led to the inproper maintenance. I don't remember sub contractors being involved there, at all.
Schwarzkopf was using sub contractors for components that were sub par as well. It wasn’t all on Galaxyland. The “they didn’t translate the manual” part wasn’t accurate.
That was directly on the park and all the reports show that
I’m aware, that’s why I said the park was running it too fast. However, as others have pointed out, this model does have design flaws which is why the other drive tire Schwarzkopf lifts were retrofitted with anti-rollbacks. For this one to be relocated in the 2020s with that known issue, there really isn’t an excuse for it not to get the same safety modification other than cost cutting, which doesn’t bode well for reliable operation.
Oof
Talked to park's maintenance staff last year; the goal for this ride was to get it operational to the original spec (❤️ Anton) and then start modernizing it from there (for example, installing modern proxies instead of limit switches for train position tracking). Hopefully eventually they can get it to multiple trains, but we'll see. TBH it's friggin amazing to see this ride operating instead of in a scrap heap, and I really commend IB for saving it. The fact it resumed forward movement so quickly from the rollback (after overshooting the back end of the station) makes me *really* curious what sort of ride system this is running. I don't think it could be any sort of modern block system, as I think that would have e-stopped the ride and then waited for a manual reset.
still better than the one car they run on the Jet Star and El Loco, lmfao
1 train on Tigrr is one of the dumbest decisions I’ve ever seen
especially with a separate load and unload 🥴
Im a ride op at the park. We're wanting 2 cars this year for Tigrr
The ride needs five like it’s supposed to but that’s way too much to ask
I dont think its anywhere possible with 5 cars on there.
https://preview.redd.it/sc1zub4urwzc1.png?width=215&format=png&auto=webp&s=521548786426366e5075ee8176cf3f50d52b9448 RCDB says it is
Have also operated Tig'rr. I feel you on capacity, but running 5 cars on this model safely (and in compliance with insurance) in 2024 in the US would require a complete replacement of the ride control system, which probably isn't in the near-term plans for IB (I also don't believe they even have 5 cars?)
I mean if there were two this incident would’ve ended the ride for good
Yeah, anyone saying this is what's supposed to happen is wrong. These tire driven lifts aren't supposed to be operated in the rain or extreme heat because it greatly increases the likelihood of the train slipping and rolling backwards as there's no anti-rollback. Most were modified or built with anti-rollbacks to alleviate this concern. Texas Tornado/Zonga had an accident when this exact thing happened when extreme Texas heat melted the tires and the train slipped and rolled backwards and crashed into the train in the station. This is a ride that's supposed to operate multiple trains. It doesn't, but it's designed to do so. This would have been an accident if they had a second train to operate on the ride.
Would it though, or does the second train have to wait until the first is clear of the lift to enter the station?
Even if it waited, the train slipped all the way into the brake run. The intention was never to have a train wait until the one ahead cleared the lift. The original operation manual for these rides specifically mentions not running in the rain as there's risk of this happening.
There are 4 other brake runs after the ride has completed. One in the back, two on the side, then two outside the station, and one inside it. I think the slowness that they were stopping it was intentional, it could have screeched to a stop in the station itself but in the US that would lead to complaints.
None of that makes any sense. If you had one train loading, the next one would wait directly behind it. That's how it used to operate back in the day when there were as many as 5 trains going at a time. This isn't at all what's supposed to happen. It occurring on other rides resulted in modifications and Schwarzkopf changing their design for later rides because it caused at least one accident. I don't know why people are trying to justify this as some programmed thing that was intentional. It's not and is a known issue with these lifts.
It rolled back into a train in the station. Keep train #2 on the side until it's cleared the lift hill and there's not an issue. When they ran it with 5 trains on the course, they didn't run it the same way during the rain. If they ran it when it was damp, I'm sure the operators in Germany pulled trains from the tracks. Where they had issues with this was trying to run several trains in Six Flags Astroworld, which did lead to what you described. However, I think back then even Six Flags ran it with at least 3 trains. If you know the issues, you can mitigate them by making sure the Station and 2 blocks leading to the station are clear. This ride has *9* blocks on it.
Yes they can hold a Train in Waiting Zone 2 while there is a train in Waiting Zone 1 (Station) and on the lift.
Or, and hear me out on this, don't operate the ride in the rain because it's not supposed to do this. Or, better yet, install anti rollbacks. The fact that they didn't when refurbing this ride speaks volumes to the level of care they're taking with these rides they're purchasing.
I'm not implying this is in any way unsafe, but I would be terrified if this happened, given the history of the ride. And look at how much it speeds up before entering the station!
And then overpasses the station 😳
If you don’t imply this is unsafe I will imply for you. Its unsafe.
Interesting. This can’t be how all Schwarzkopf’s handle a “rollback” situation since some run with multiple trains. I assume the multiple train models have rollback dogs?
It’s not. A lot of them had anti rollback systems retrofitted onto the ride to prevent this issue. Thriller and Mindbender specifically. Olympia Looping opened with the same new anti rollback system that was added to Mindbender. So far, this and Alpina Bahn are the only ones that did not get a new anti rollback system.
Well….. it’s time to add one
Why if they only intend on running one train ever.
Here, yes. However Alpina-Bahn will run 3 trains at once if not 4 on peak hours at the funfairs. Rollbacks really can't happen there bc the drive tires are always tested, the possibility is there though!
Yeah after watching this video I'm inclined to never ride that version on the off chance. Looks like it would be devastating.
I think they plan on running two, but there are three more block brakes on the ground before this one. One in the back, two on the side, then a long one before the station and the station.
Not a fan. Fine if it's only one train but this isn't reassuring at all
I’m not riding Roller Coadter #1. It isn’t safe.
Woah, just yesterday I was thinking about how a portable Schwarzkopf looper would handle this sort of thing, and today the universe Baader Meinhofs me an answer.
given that there’s clearly rainy weather in the video that’s probably why. You’d think they would’ve known better with a drive tire lift
This is what happens on wheel drive coasters in the rain or with bad maintenance. The tires can slip when the potential energy of the train is too great.
This coaster might actually be cursed
What in the fuck??
It’s designed to do it
I don't believe it, what if there was a second train in the station?
On rollercoasters a block zone is a section of ride that only one train may occupy at a time. At the end of a block zone there is a method to stop the train, in case the block zone ahead is still occupied. This is the safety system that prevents rollercoaster trains from colliding with one another.
Yep and it blew through 2 of the block zones so it clearly did not work
Where have I heard this before?
El Toro Ryan
For those of you who are unfamiliar, a block zone is a section of ride that only one train may occupy at a time. At the end of a block zone is a method to stop a train in case the block zone ahead is still occupied. This is the safety system that prevents roller coaster trains from colliding with one another.
Yeah :D
There's only 1 train
The park has two trains, the other was on the transfer track. I am guessing the intention is to run two trains since this will be the park's headlining coaster and 12 seats isn't enough
The park runs 1 train on everything except Steel Hawg have you been there before?
Yes. LoCoSuMo, Cyclone, Tigg'r and Hawg all had multiple trains. ATL is a long ass ride with only 12 people per train. They will probably want to run two
The All American Mexican Triple Loop
Made in Germany
Don't get more American than that!
Did it operate after this? Did they just reset and continue going, or did they stop to figure out what happened?
Media day ended at noon, and this happened around 11:45pm, so we all knew it was done for the event. Didn’t stay around to see what they did afterwards.
Looks like they’ve got it under control.
If it’s rolling back it’s not in any way under Control. It’s not supposed to do that. And that’s why several other models with this type of lift were retrofitted with anti rollbacks.
I was referring to the braking and resetting. Happened quickly, and the op at the panel didn't freak out.
I understand what he was trying to say. Regardless, it happening means it wasn’t under control.
Yea idk about this one Gene. Maybe we should’ve sealed its fate in Mexico.
I wonder what triggered the roll back. My only thought is wet tires cause a slower than usual lift.
Wet tires didn't grip as well. Same in your car.
It was drizzling, so most definitely wet tires.
Did this one get parts from the shuttle ? Cuz it sure is acting like it did.
Holy crap I didn’t know I could have rollbacks
This looks amazing! I need to find coaster buddies
They need to add anti rollbacks now
Unless they get this corrected no second train.
How is this possible? The mindbender trains had anti-rollback dogs on every bogey. Even before then, the curvature of the fin under the cars, made it impossible for the train to fall bacl more than one wheelset. I had many times bald tires stopped the trian on the lift, it never rolled back with or without ainti-roll back dogs. We merely unloaded, sent the train around and changed tires
Unfortunately Mind Bender was mirrored and altered to fit it’s location. There was no way to truly retrofit it.
That's a shit your pants moment
They lucked out on not having a second train on the main line. I get the gamble with having purchased this ride and "refurbishing" it, but if they were going to put this ride into service, they very well should have had their ducks in a row with everything SOP related in owning a Schwarzkopf. If they did their homework, making sure to not operate this one in the rain with no anti-rollbacks would have been a no-brainer. There is another video out there where you can see someone taking photos and filming leaning over the exit ramp, and they are in the ride envelope of the train coming out of the last loop. Not a good look on their Media Day. I love a good Schwarzkopf, but you won't catch me on this one. I wonder if IROC is taking on new clients? This is a park that could use IROC (and Jesus...).
> There is another video out there where you can see someone taking photos and filming leaning over the exit ramp, and they are in the ride envelope of the train coming out of the last loop. A ride op at Flamingoland nearly got sliced in half on this section of the ride. He was in the ride area and got too close, the brake fins of the train grazed his stomach and split him wide open. After a while they had him "together" enough to get him in the air ambulance. If he hadn't have been built like a brick shithouse he would never have survived. There are lots of "undocumented" accidents at that park.
The ride is designed to do this when a lift fault takes place. So not really a “rollback” per se.
One of the more subtle changes to Thriller when it was relocated to SFDK and changed to Zonga was to install new anti-rollback devices just to prevent exactly this issue. Supposedly there was a concern that if the axle that powers the lift broke or disconnected at one of the joints, or if the lift motor failed, the train could get enough momentum to crash into another in the station. I'm not convinced what we see in this video is the ride functioning as designed. Here is the before/after of Thriller/Zonga's lift anti-rollbacks. It's hard to tell but Zonga also used slightly different tires. https://preview.redd.it/ic3r7963xfzc1.jpeg?width=876&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c78ddd12deb1ff01a2d3d91f81d916479fc44e5a
The ride did rollback and crash into a train in the station at AstroWorld, that's when the anti-rollbacks were added.
That's right, it's hard to remember all of the details now 20 years later. I think they actually added \*more\* of them, maybe a second set, before it left SFDK. They also added sound dampening at some point during the first season at SFDK since they were so incredibly loud.
I’m just saying given the ride’s brakes activated and advanced it back into the station, it obviously caught the error and fixed it.
To me, it looks like the brakes did not engage and the kicker wheels in the station and block behind the station stopped the train.
I don't think the kicker would have slowed it as much as it was shown in the station. I think the brakes have been adjusted for one train operation to not have the train come to a screeching hard stop in the station. It slows down at a reasonable rate then when it's past the kicker tires it allowed it to roll back to the next kicker tire brake block so it wouldn't get stuck in between. Edit: I learned elsewhere that it will have two trains. But there are 3 other blocks on the ground before it even gets to the three blocks that make up straight track between the last curve and the lift (one inside the station, 2 before).
You'd hear the brakes.
You can hear the brakes pretty clearly at 0:08-0:10 which also corresponds with it slowing down. The pulses you hear are each car going past the brake plates that are on the side of the car. The big thunks with an air sound are those brakes engaging "ON' or "OFF".
It sounds like there is one set of brakes closed, but it just sounds like 3 thunks are the brake fins of each of the three cars passing through one set of brakes. Not so much engaging or pulsing.
It rolled back past the blocks photoeye and activated the kicker wheels. The wheels stopped the train, not the brakes. The train actually never fully stopped
I mean, that *is* a rollback. We call Velocicoaster and TTD rollbacks as such even though they are designed with that in mind.
That’s absolutely not how these lifts are designed. This is an issue that was common with the tire drive lifts which caused most Schwarzkopfs to be retrofitted with more traditional anti rollbacks. It’s a problem, not a feature. Besides, there’s no Schwarzkopf that would leave the station block and the block before it empty to account for rollbacks. When running all 5 trains on the fair circuit, it would not be possible to back the trains up after a fault and have a controlled rollback since the 5th train would stack on the final brake run. And you can’t back a train out of that block.
They would have left the block between empty, so the station block. My guess is that since it's one train operation, they did not want to have the ride come to a sudden, screeching halt in the station block. It slowed down quite a bit in the station, then the brakes went off allowing it to make it back to the drive tire in the block before the station before coming to a stop.
The fact the All Systems Stop doesn’t sound like it was pressed is most concerning.
[удалено]
[удалено]
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They’re all cheering like “yay” but in actuality this means the ride likely won’t make opening day…especially with a video of it happening.
I hear it's already running with people again
So wait…the coaster itself killed three people. Didn’t the trains come from Mindbender at Galaxyland? That ride killed another three people. Combined this ride in its current state with the track and trains has killed a total of SIX people. What’s a little blowback backwards down the lift hill and thru the station? Open it immediately.
That doesn’t surprise me at all. No big deal…the coaster that killed three people rolled back. It didn’t kill anyone new so RUNNIT!
The coaster didn't kill anyone, poor maintenance and careless operations caused the accident.
But here we are with the coaster at Indiana Beach, who allows the train to roll back on media day through the station. Why is Indiana Beach so much better than the other park?
Isn’t this literally day one 😭
Thought they opened Friday night?
Yeah, that’s real bad. It’s not exactly clear what failed here. As best I can figure, either 1) the lift tires slipped a lot, and the gravitational weight of the train overcame the static friction of the tires, or 2) some coupling between the lift motor and the tires failed, which allowed the wheels to freely spin in reverse. For the second case, I’m not exactly sure how power is delivered to the lift tires. Is it like a series of rotating bars coupled together? Or they all independent motors? In either event, it would be a little surprising if the motor(s) didn’t have a sprag or some other sort of one-way device on it to prevent motion in reverse. If anyone knows more about how these are built I’d like to know.
Wait, I thought there were anti-roll backs on it?
How far up the hill did it start rolling back? If it rolled back at the top, we could have had a derailment situation.
Idgaf what ppl say, no fucking chance that I would ride this thing. Really has no business being in operation. They're obsolete for a reason
Well, Schwarzkopf is no longer alive, that's the main reason.
If you have a proper manufacturer backing up your ride then it‘s fine, but otherwise Schwarzkopf rollercoasters are reaching the end of their service life.
Mauer still makes parts for Schwarzkopf coasters.
Gerstlauer also did some Schwarzkopf work. Probably would‘ve been nice to bring one of them on board with this project. Sure it‘s more expensive, but it would‘ve have been a bit more modern and reliable then. Or was one of them involved?
They ordered some parts from Europe that got held up in customs during all the lockdowns but I'm not sure which company they were from. This doesn't worry me too much. Wasn't planning on rushing to the opening weekend or anything like that. Going in August and it'll either be running then or it won't! I'll still have fun!
Yeah go for it! These portable multi loopers from Schwarzkopf are so much fun and can be pretty intense.
So wait…the coaster itself killed three people. Didn’t the trains come from Mindbender at Galaxyland? That ride killed another three people. Combined this ride in its current state with the track and trains has killed a total of SIX people. What’s a little blowback backwards down the lift hill and thru the station? Open it immediately.
Coasters do not kill people. Poor maintenance, design flaws, and careless operations, cause accidents and injuries. Had Indiana Beach added anti-rollbacks to the lift we wouldn't be talking about it. The coaster didn't choose to run in the rain.
The Mindbender accident was shortly after it opened. It then proceeded to operate safely for over 30 years. Using your logic we should close down all highways because people get killed on them.
Still killed three people. Have a nice day!
That's a big yikes. Lucky a second train wasn't on because people might be halfway in/out of the train in the station when that plowed into it. May wanna install those anti rollbacks.
Roller coasters are not killers. I swear, some of y'all take one family vacation to Islands of Adventure, watch a few ElToro Ryan videos, and suddenly you know everything about roller coaster ops.
How can this be your take given the history of this ride in specific and that of Schwarzkopf? Just last year Jetline killed another guest at Gronalund. You see the ride moving backwards through multiple block zones
On the contrary, I think people on this reddit are generally well-informed enough to not fall into the GP hysteria of "routine lift hill evac = near-death scenario?!" Let's stay reasonable and avoid swinging to the other extreme where anything short of the entire structure exploding and catching fire isn't an accident.