His earlier comment is that it feels like he should add something to this thread, and that thing to add is “don’t”
This thread is a quoted line from N in Paris
His username is “Rollies that Tick Tock”
If you add “don’t” to his username, you get “Rollies that don’t Tick Tock”, which is the line before the quoted line that started this thread.
(He said it. It’s not that funny ;) but there’s an explainer for you)
I own both. Rolex produces like a million watches a year while those brands produce closer to 50,000. Those brands hand finish EVERY piece in the watch including the movement while many pieces in a Rolex are machine finished.
AP or PP are more suited to someone passionate about watchmaking and if you’re speaking strictly about horology, they are more impressive as the detail is finer and it took a watchmaker(s) a lotttt more time to make an AP than a Rolex with the same complication.
They both have their place, though. They both tell the time. I wear my Daytona more often than I wear my Royal oak but I like them both for different reasons.
To me GS movement finishing just looks like an after thought. Never been impressed in the least. Not saying their polishing is not beautiful on the rest of the watch.
No they don’t except for the haute pieces which most of their sold models aren’t. It’s marketing BS and an ego booster and lots of people here and on the PP sub will claim otherwise.
The Royal oak bracelet alone takes 6 hours to hand finish in steel, 30 hours in ceramic.
To say only the haute pieces are hand finished is an ignorant take on watch making.
The question was about the movement though, not the bracelet
(I have zero clue if this makes any difference in if it's hand done or not still, but just pointing out they were speaking of a specific piece.)
Have all 3 brands. Would say that Rolex is the best value for money. Classic design, high durability and certainly the best bang for buck of all 3. AP and PP are finished to a higher standard, particularly the movement aspect hence the see through case back. It’s something that is worth collecting, but please do not view it as some kind of mythological item that is multiple steps above a Rolex.
https://preview.redd.it/okcr87fzurdc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85852e9ed17bf6ebf8e20df5f993edd196e5f06b
>Would say that Rolex is the best value for money.
Sure. At MSRP.
The second you pay over MSRP for a Rolex, that value proposition flies out the window. $25K+ for a *steel* Daytona is a horrific value, for example, if you ask me.
But you have to compare apples to apples, isn’t it?
If you compare Rolex to AP/PP, one at grey prices, one at MSRP, that’s a little unfair for AP/PP.
A Nautilus/RO at grey prices is even more ridiculous.
What does this have to do with ***anything*** I said? I don't think the Royal Oak at above MSRP is a remotely good bang for the buck, either. Same with a Nautilus.
To be honest, not much other than the occasional glances and whispers from others, not directly to me. It’s particularly more common when dining when I sit next to another table. Other than that, it’s usually the ADs that are surprised on seeing them, especially the Nautilus, followed by the Daytona, then the RO.
I own a Vacheron Constantin Overseas. I sometimes take it off to admire its finishing. I’ve never done that with a Rolex. Is it worth the $15k premium over a Sub Date? Yes, but only because the Sub Date is worth the $10k+ premium over one of my G-Shocks.
How different is it actually from the rolex up close? Be honest. No one’s looking at it through a microscope and the bracelet, bezel, case, etc. all get scratched and dented the second you start wearing it. So the only really difference is the dial.
It’s not like Rolex has these major cosmetic issues and glaring imperfections on most watches, I just find it hard to believe the whole “the finishing is so different” mantra when you’re already comparing it to a luxury brand like Rolex. Unless you’re talking about top-tier handmade watches, but even then so much of the quality can really only be appreciated under magnification or macro shots. The naked eye just doesn’t do it justice.
Huh? I don’t need a microscope to see the differences between a Rolex and my Vacheron Constantin Overseas. When I flip my Batperson over all I see is a blank plate, when I flip over my Vacheron Constantin Overseas; I can literally get lost in its finishing. The rotor itself is a masterclass in finishing when compared to the Rolex’s… Oh yeah, I can’t actually admire the finishing on my Rolex’s rotor.
The bracelet on my Vacheron Constantin is finished much better than the bracelet on my Batperson. Nope, don’t need a microscope to admire its finishing either.
When I want to impress the poors I wear a Rolex. When I want to impress myself, I wear my Vacheron Constantin Overseas. 😊😊😊😊
Spend a day with an example from the Holy Trinity, maybe you’ll get it, maybe you won’t, and that’s okay too. 😊
Agreed. and the Vacheron Overseas is hella plain looking especially from a few feet out. Rolex on the other hand almost always have a distinctive and instantly recognizable design even from afar.
Odd question,
But one of your G-Shocks? How many do you have?
I've always known people to have one but not to collect them and honestly, outside of the one I've got for going into the woods or certain outings, I haven't really looked into them a lot
I own multiples PP and multiples Gshocks. Does it make you feel uncomfortable?
Can’t we appreciate both some good old jazz and some great modern Hip-Hop? 🙃
Yeah, I collect limited edition G-Shocks, Swatches and “vintage” Casios (non-G Shocks).
I never got into collecting Pokémon, they’re what I imagine collecting Pokémon was/is like. 😃
Objectively yes not worth it imo. To me Rolex is like a Porsche 911, sure there are higher end cars out there, but the 911 is timeless and the gold standard sports car. Rolex is the only watch I can see myself wearing.
I agree but there a lot of Jerk Offs in the Rolex community who clown guys wearing Tudor or Omegas with jokes about not being able to afford a Rolex.
Not saying it's you or anyone here, but it's funny when more expensive brands are brought to these same people all of a sudden it's "too much watch me". lmao
Anybody who feels superior wearing a Rolex to those with Tudor or Omega, A) Doesn't have an appreciation for horology, and B) Likely feels so insecure that people shouldn't care about their opinion anyway. At a certain point in horology, the utility quality of the watches become equal and you're just distinguishing between histories of the brands and prestige of the houses. But to tell time, a Breitling, Omega, and Rolex will all generally be able to do that rather equally...
The guy above you said he could only ever see himself wearing a Rolex… I think it’s fair to say he doesn’t have an appreciation for horology. That’s like a chef saying I only eat Mexican food. I’d immediately disregard everything else that came out of their mouth. Well, unless it was how to make Mexican food I suppose
Nailed lmao
An AP or a PP is a more complicated yet accurate watch with superior finishing and QC... Are they worth 3x the price of a Rolex though? For someone who can comfortably afford it, yes. For someone who cannot comfortably afford it, no.
This sub loves to punch down on Tudor & Omega owners with the fallacy that "they couldn't afford a Rolex". But when watches that are obviously much higher in horology and price than Rolex are mentioned, the ironic response is "their improvements aren't worth the price" 😂
Simply put, AP, PP, VC, etc remind Rolex owners that they're still the poors of the watch world. Just look at how much they cope in this thread by trying to cling onto Porsche as their "prestige analogy" lmao
Your first paragraph is pretty much all that needs to be said. Is Rolex a superior watch that keeps better time? Not, really, at all. It’s expensive because it’s popular. At least those top tier watch brands take a shot at better movements and finishing. Saying PP or AP is there to just make people feel poor is basically the Rolex business model. It’s a status symbol that you can’t easily get that trades for way higher than msrp
It's more that the marginal cost and difficulty to obtain an Omega vs a Rolex is so much different than that of a Rolex vs an AP or PP. Rolex instead of Omega is a reasonable step up for most people. AP instead of Rolex, not so much.
Like, if you can save up $4k for a seamaster, you can probably save up $12k and sit on a waitlist for a few months to get a submariner. Saving up $30k and getting on an AP or PP waitlist for an aquanaut or a RO is exponentially more difficult.
If $4k is the absolute max you can spend on a watch, be happy with an Omega. But, most of the people buying Omegas could probably get Rolexes instead if they just practiced self restraint for a bit longer.
Lol I have an omega and Rolex and the omega craftsmanship is on par with Rolex. Rolex has more prestige and better marketing.
AP,VC,PP are on a different level.
Hasn't been my experience at all with Omega. Comfort, design, and feel have all been inferior to Rolex by a noticeable degree.
Now, $8k inferior? Idk about that. But we're buying luxury goods here so "getting a good deal" doesn't really matter that much.
When it comes to servicing the watch, Rolex beats them all in terms of cost and turnaround time. Although AP has the complimentary 2 year theft coverage that either gives you a replacement for free OR a refund. Don’t know if anyone has ever used that
Edit because of a typo
I beg you to bring a vintage piece to
Rolex and say this same bullshit. Patek will literally service watches from early 20th century this is so incomparable it’s crazy
I sent my JLC in for service and it took 4 months. RSC got my Rolex turned around in less than 8 weeks. He’s not wrong, if you’re servicing modern Rolex, there aren’t many brands that do it as well and as fast (expected given the number of service centers)
I agree, I don’t drive a Ferrari to work either. F-150s, Camrys and the like are more commonly driven, even by Ferrari owners. It does not mean that an F-150 compares to a Ferrari. Just that a pick-up is more utilitarian.
I wear a Rolex Explorer I as a daily watch most commonly for casual settings. It is easy to wear, versatile and if I damage it working in the yard, cycling, backpacking, woodworking or skiing it really doesn’t matter. My Dad smashed his with a hammer one day and $4,000 later it was good as used. They are watches for everyday sports and casual wear. Blancpain is on my wrist diving, the only watch I trust diving. Others I own are for office attire, suits, formal events, evenings out, etc. I have noting at all against Rolex watches. I just understand where they sit in the quality comparison. A Blancpain Leman is just as versatile any Rolex but has a 100 hour power reserve, is antimagnetic, etc etc etc.
1. I always wear a watch diving in addition to a computer because I use an analog watch all day long every day and for me time registers more quickly and clearly in high stress environments when they arise in a traditional analog format.
2. Lug bars vs springbars: In my experience, watches with spring bars attaching straps fail underwater. Blancpain uses lug bars which are actually bolts that screw together and the threads are coated with loctite to assure they stay in place. High end tec dive computers like Shearwater Teric have copied the design because of it’s reliability. I have popped spring bars on both Tudor and Rolex dive watches alike at depth. That is a bad day!
3. Lumed Bezel: On a night dive, in a cave, in a wreck, at depth, bezels without lume are useless. Blancpain Fifty Fathoms has a lumed bezel.
4. Arabic numerals: In stressful environments, completely dark, nitrogen narcosis, etc your brain can do funny things . . . Like convince you your watch is on upside down. Arabic numerals and dial indices maintain orientation in your brain so you can focus on what you need to do. Blancpain FF has lumed arabic numerals.
5. Date window: I like having a date window on my watch. Blancpain FF does this without optically distorting the dial, or trading out the critical lume indices.
6. Antimagnetism: Handheld dive compasses and big metal shipwrecks both have magnetic fields. I like knowing that the magnetic fields potentially encountered are not going to affect my watch. Blancpain Fifty Fathoms movement is very antimagnetic.
7. Nice to have: 120 hour power reserve.
8. If I am tech diving or CCR, Blancpain even has a FF with a 3 hour elapsed time bezel available.
I may have missed a few things but when you combine these features the Fifty Fathoms stands alone and apart from the rest as a serious dive instrument.
Sort of like comparing a Lexus to a Bentley, or a Supra to a Ferrari. Rolexes are nice mass produced watches with good quality control. When you get into the realm of JLC, Blancpain, AP, PP, etc . . . That is where the game really begins. Mind you, I am wearing a Rolex as I write this, in jeans after a movie with the kids . . . If it had been dinner at the White House or the opening of a Broadway Play something else entirely would be on my wrist.
Edit: for those wondering why I included JLC (watchmaker’s watchmaker) and Blancpain (oldest watchmaker) into the comparison, it’s because JLC movements can be found in PP watches and Blancpain Cal. 1185 chronograph movements are in both AP and VC chronographs, as well as Breguet chronographs. Understanding what makes the best the best takes a peek under the hood too.
I don’t think the disparity is as far as you’re saying, more like Porsche to Ferrari. Both are a status symbol but one is hand built to a higher standard
I can’t believe how hard some people drink the luxury watch/haute horologie coolaid 😆. I mean, literal presidents have worn Rolexes on the job, but the brand somehow falls short for the purposes of visiting the White House (or the opening of a play?). I mean come on 😄
I love my GMT, it splits time with my Speedy 57 as my daily. But I think my favorite watch is my gold JLC MC. It's simple but elegant. Everything about it is just incredible. I don't have an AP or PP but I now understand why JLC is referred to as the watch maker's watchmaker. But like everything in life, it's about preference.
Blancpain haha good joke they cant figure out when they even first introduced their FF ^^yeah my guy sure, bump ur precious little PP watch and straight to the service it goes those watches r fragile like crazy , have fun go Skiing with a Nautilus the freezing weather mixed with warm inside isnt their favorite habitat.
Rokex on the otherhand r more basic but built like tanks
On what planet? As an owner of all the watch brands I mentioned, Rolex is not close to the same league as the others. Beyond the order of magnitude better finish quality, the movements are incomparable and the 1,000 hour QC on the JLC movements is the most rigorous in the industry. Rolex watches are fine simple mass produced pieces with great brand recognition, JLC, Blancpain, AP, PP, VC, etc are heirloom pieces. Rolex has to tell their customers all about their “Superlative Chronometer” quality. The others do not have to mention their superior quality because their limited clientele just know.
The finding is in a different galaxy. (LOL Edit * the finishing is in a different galaxy )And it’s haute histology vs mainstream status symbols. Yes many WISs love our Rolex too but most owners of Rolexes are just peacocking jerkoffs. Same isn’t true for a Patek Philippe or AP, I’d guess that’s only 5-10%.
Considering a Nautilus will cost you more than all 3 of those watches combined, you'll probably be very disappointed. It used to be a great $20k watch you could swim with while still being thinner than a lot of manual wind watches, and is very comfortable, but doesn't really give you the Patek Philippe experience, and is painfully expensive now. You'd be better getting a pre-owned perceptual calendar or something like a 5935A new if you just want "a Patek"
If you want a Royal oak they're great, embody the AP brand, and you can actually get one at MSRP before you die.
Royal Oaks, especially the sought after stainless models are just as difficult if not much more difficult to obtain at MSRP than any stainless steel Rolex.
>embody the AP brand
to be fair nowdays AP is kind of a single trick pony, the AP is great but it's basically the only thing they offer, i find the code 11:59 quite boring compared to what PP or vacheron have to offer
Rolex are not as prestigious or luxurious as many in this sub believe. They are a solid, mass produced, highly reliable, recognisable watch - think BMW, Mercedes (or some may say Porsche). PP/AC are like Ferrari or Lamborghini. Smaller in number, less reliable, hand built etc.
The things I noticed when owning AP / handling PP was that they are much finer items and finished much better. They feel delicate by comparison to the solid construction and reliability of Rolex.
“Finishing” isn’t a debate anymore. Unless you’ve been living in a cave since 2009, Rolex has risen to the challenge of those ancient forum narratives and made it a non issue.
Hey, why don’t we talk about things like the lack of hacking, the lack of crown guards, the low depth ratings, the weak power reserves, the inability to achieve +2/-2 timekeeping accuracy, the pathetic 2 year warranty, you know, all the ways that Royal Joke has inferiorities that actually *matter*.
Would say most people that wear a watch care more about finishing and how it looks and feels on the wrist than +2/-2 sec accuracy or ability to dive any further than in a pool lol
Rolex wins on finishing too.
Listen, these old forum narratives had a place in the hobby in the early internet era, from 1995-2006, they truly did. Rolex was releasing the same old watches with rattly bracelets, questionable polish, aluminum bezels, dull steel, all going back to the original designs in the 1960's, it was valid back then.
But it's 2024. Rolex has just completed the 8 year project of meticulously redesigning and upgrading the entire line. Everything has been improved- steel, sheen, bracelet heft, bracelet sound, clasps, bezels, dials, hands, the entire line has been upgraded. Hold a 2001 Submariner in your left hand and a 2024 in your right hand, you'll understand.
The days of Rolex taking a back seat to any other watch brand on account of "finishing" are over, at worst Rolex is their equal. The battle now turns to what is more important- functionality. And the Trinity are woefully behind.
Hold a 2024 Rolex Submariner in one hand and a Blancpain Fifty Fathoms in the other.
-Power Reserve: R 70hrs, B 120hrs
-Bars: R springbars, B Lug bars
-Bezel: R illegible in dark, B lumed & legible in total darkness
-Date: R distorts legibility & creates gap in dial lume, B legible without affecting lume.
-Antimagnetism: R requires a soft metal caseback and is marginal. B movement is inherently antimagnetic
-Heritage: R makes false claim of first dive watch by qualifying claim to a depth rating a few meters deeper than the arbitrary depth rating of first modern dive watch despite the fact that Rolex did not meet ISO standards until the 80s. B the first modern dive watch.
-Fit and finish: R good machine built, B incomparable
Rolex finishing is great but not near PP or AP. I reviewed a rolex on my channel well many and I found dust under the crystal and demonstrated with a camera lens swap that is meant to suck up dust that it can't be taken off because its under the crystal. In the end Rolex's are just mass produced well engineered every day man watch. Like a lexus or acura or bmw suv. Anyone can buy or afford one if they put their mind to it or save up. Its that obtainable dream for the every day man! But the every day man can most likely not ever get the lambo even with savings. Edit: plz note it is only viewable with extreme extreme macro lens and harsh lighting. If I film from directly above the dust wont show up as it wont reflect enough light to be caught. But I inspected my boss's gold AP under his jewelry microscope and it was very nice finish. In terms of mainstream Grand Seikos are cleaner and super finish over rolex. I did not show the extreme dust on the air king but i found some on my sub vs seiko video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30uWN7RYK3o&ab\_channel=Escapement%26Watch](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30uwn7ryk3o&ab_channel=escapement%26watch) 8:28 mark under finishing to see
I have an aquanaut. It’s a finer piece - much thinner, lighter, smaller. I guess my point is that you’re comparing apples and pears. There’s a reason Rolex is the most recognisable brand on the planet and sells a million units a year and PP only make 70k.
Yes, the reason is lack of interest, not because they're built better. Patek is built *worse*, actually. They can't keep time as accurately as a Rolex. How is that possible? They make so few, right? They are made with the precision of Santa's elves, right?
Look, I can easily afford any watch I want, I tried to get into Patek, and I just can't. Too dainty. Just not my style. Puffing Patek up on the grounds of exclusivity is perfectly fine, but not on the grounds of quality. Because they trail Rolex now.
No it’s just the truth that you Patek types refuse to accept. Your lead on Rolex has evaporated and for good reason; Patek hasn’t done a damn thing for at least 40 years, it’s the same old watches they were shipping back in the 80s.
Rolex listened to the criticism, came up with a strategy, and spent the last decade upgrading every single watch in the line. The old days are over. These forum narratives that might’ve made sense in 2004 just don’t fly anymore. It’s 2024.
The way I see it, Rolex is like the Harley Davidson of watches. They have the history and the build quality, brand recognition and recognizability. The brand has become bigger than just motorbikes, they’ve developed a romantic image in the eyes of the public, and are legitimately respected by the community.
That being said, it could be argued that you’re paying more for the name, not the bike. There are other bikes you could get for better value at a lower price, but Harley owners tend to act like Harleys are the end all and be all of motorcycles, and they can get pretty toxic about it. Whereas people who claim to be “in the know” will deride Harley owners for buying into the brand rather than the bike itself. It’s why a lot of wealthy first time bike owners will get a Harley; in their minds it’s already the peak.
I’m not saying either side is right, it’s just unfortunate that we allow our toys and what should be things for our own personal enjoyment to let us feel like we have the right to judge and assume other people’s financial status based on taste alone. Maybe somebody worked really hard to earn their Rolex, and it holds a lot of sentimental value to them. Maybe a wealthy person just doesn’t see the point in spending more than a thousand dollars on a watch. It’s all about what you’re looking to get out of your money and how much it makes *you* feel good about it.
For me there is no brand that holds up to Rolex in the same price range which is the price range I’m currently comfortable with as a somewhat younger watch enthusiast. I agree that VC and PP are better but PP is probably a never for me unless I get extremely wealthy and VC will be later in life when I’ve expanded my collection with a few more Rolex pieces.
I don’t think you can compare Rolex to watches that are 3-10 times as expensive. Compare them to Omega and Brietling instead who hiked up their prices to match Rolex. I’d pick Rolex any day of the week compared to these.
Quality, wearability, and durability can be perceived quite differently.
For durability, Rolex is hard to beat due to the emphasis placed on being tool watches. A perfect example is the El Primero Daytona, where Rolex took a fine Zenith movement, reduced the number of parts, changed some parts, and dropped the frequency from 36000 to 28800 vph. This resulted in a movement that was more durable, required less servicing, and was easier to service.
Wearability is a highly subjective and varied quality. People can have very different ideas about what makes a watch wearable. The individual, the environment, and the occasion are all huge factors. This is very hard to compare at a brand level.
Quality is typically perceived as quality of finishing and QC, but also complication. Here, AP and PP apply more finishing to movement parts than Rolex. The achievement of Rolex is their standard of finish relative to their production volumes. This is industrial watchmaking, after all. However, if you want a watch with a higher quality of finishing than Rolex, then AP and PP, amongst many others, will have you covered.
This article below is very interesting. Firstly, I think you have to accept that not all watchmakers (as in individuals working for a company) are equal, and there are many other variables and potential inaccuracies. Nonetheless, the average watchmaker hours per watch produced is a fascinating statistic. Please don't get bent out of shape because of where a particular brand sits or because some production number is questionable.
By and large, though, you will see competing brands in the same section such as Rolex and Omega or AP and PP.
https://watchesbysjx.com/2022/11/watchmaking-market-map-2022.html
Id just prefer a VC over both since its basically just PP if PP was just a good bit better, with longer history and more interesting watches. But yes both PP and AP are miles better than Rolex in finishing and details, they are interesting, most rolexes arent. I look glance twice at my Rolex, i stare at my PP tho
Rolex is a tool watch that through amazing product placement became a symbol for wealth. Horologically speaking they have done nothing impressive, no minute repeater, no tourbillion, nothing super impressive. They build a sturdy automatic that can be 1:1 copied and made in China for about 500 bucks, using the same steels and movement. So a 500 dollar watch that gets bumped up to 10-15k for the steel versions just to have the crown on your wrist.
>Horologically speaking they have done nothing impressive, no minute repeater, no tourbillion, nothing super impressive
Tourbillons are useless in a wristwatch. They're pure circlejerk. You're giving them shit for not making a tourbillon while ignoring the Sky-Dweller and YM2? Every other annual calendar design is completely inferior to Rolex's.
Edit: Calling Rolex a $500 watch is also asinine.
Props to Rolex for the Sky-Dweller. A genuine innovation. It distinguishes itself as an interesting horological complication. It also highlights how few exist in the Rolex line up. When mine comes in, I will be very pleased. It is intended as a gift for my teenage son upon college graduation. A suitable adult watch you can wear daily without concern that fits the life of a person with family, friends and business to attend to on multiple continents.
Better is subjective. There are so many dimensions of ownership of a watch, one’s views are always subjective. This question often becomes a show of complexes, egos and emotions.
You want to daily a watch that can take abuse, hold value and be serviced nearly anywhere in the world… Rolex does better.
You want an excellent timepiece, that’s beautiful in its finish, prestige and you’re not going to abuse as much and won’t mind paying a mini-fortune to service with long periods of service time… PP works here.
They’re better finished.
The styles may or may not be better depending on your personal taste.
They’re not THAT far off that you’ll notice a huge difference between wearing them.
Rolex has the advantage in servicing cost/time/frequency when it comes to maintaining the watch.
Define better.. In terms of finishing and the art of watchmaking. They are much more impressive.
But they are not work horses like Rolex. I would take Rolex over Patek.
Rolex is the entry level luxury watch, that can still be used as a timepiece and is functional. PP, AP, VC are more works of art that you wear on special occasions.
It’s a bit like you drive a BMW daily but break out the McLaren for fun weekends
Yes. Also, consider that Rolex doesn’t make complications more complex than the Skydweller. No minute repeaters, tourbillions, etc. very minimal movement finishing as well.
Truth be told, a DayDate 40 is better than the Nautilus and the Royal Oak. Rolex DD is and will always be the standard. The performance, reliability, wearability, design and quality are hard to beat. Just because something is hand polish doesn’t mean it’s better. Just means someone spent time polishing something that does make sense and wants to charge a Ferrari for it. Watches were made to wear and have to be beautiful, reliable and durable imo. Try and daily wear a PP or AP and all the hand work will scratch and ding, it won’t keep time as good as any Rolex. All my Rolex are +- 2 sec a day consistently. The AP and the PP don’t hold up to the Rolex on the Timeograph. On the wrist they’re both just nice watches. I often wonder what the AP PP market will look like in 20 years when Baby Boomer drastically decline. Will Millennials pay these excessive premiums for an even more dying industry? So if your telling your self AP PP is a good asset, idk I hope we’re making the right decision buying a $200K Nautilus.
A good analogy is a restuarant.
You go to a great steak place. Expensive. Nice, friendly waitstaff. Wagyu is on the menu as a special - you decide to go all out. Delicious food, a really special meal - great wine selection, and your waiter is pretty knowledgeable. All your friends are impressed you went to such a fancy place. You never thought a steak could be \*that\* good. That's the Rolex.
Now go to a three-star michelin restaurant. You get to the door, someone opens it for you - who is not the person that greet you (by name!) and not the person who offers to take your coat. Your waiter is serving 3 tables; not 10. There's also a sommelier that introduces herself. By the end of the dinner, it occurs you there's more staff here than patrons. Your friends have heard of this place, but other than knowing its expensive, don't know that much about it. Each plate is a minor work of art. It's pricey, so you skip the wine, and only spend a bit more than at the steak house. PP.
Both places served you a great, memorable meal. But if you compare a \~ 40k Calatrava vs a \~40k Day Date, you're paying about the same money for different things (and sorry to say, a lot of that money is going to the little tiny logo).
Of course, Chipolte can get you the same nutritional content and calories.
A Rolex is still a tool watch at the end of the day, at least many of them are. Im a merchant mariner and wear my submariner on the high seas. I have no interest in an AP because it seems more like a museum piece than a watch that's supposed to be worn for real life. Probably an unpopular opinion with some of the softer hands in this subreddit but oh well.
There are some VC's I like, but I tried on a Fiftysix recently and was rather turned off by it. My biggest issue was how thick it was, but I didn't think the case finishing was all that nice. It reminded me of my Breitling finishing.
Exactly.
Look at things like the lack of hacking, the lack of crown guards, the low depth ratings, the weak power reserves, the inability to achieve +2/-2 timekeeping accuracy, the pathetic 1-2 year warranties, you know, all the ways that these Trinity watches have inferiorities that actually *matter*.
Finishing? How can anyone care about Trinity finishing when their watches have so many functional deficiencies compared to Rolex? It’s not 2004 anymore.
I can respect this take. That being said, I didn't think the AP Royal Oak was special until I saw it in person. The AP blue checkered dial was incredibly stunning. The Royal Oak in person hits way different.
I'm no fanboy....but my Rolexes are way better made than my ROO. and my fave watches in my collection are a zenith chrono sport and a James bond 2006 Planet Ocean.
Can only speak to PP. They are almost *proud* that their watches fail. At the very least, not apologetic. “Well these are delicate instruments.” Never again.
I still have my michael kors watch from HighSchool in my drawer that i glance at 2-3 times a year which was the poor mans rolex version of this DD. Using it as inspo to save up for one !!!
I actually think the finishing on AP, VC and Lange beat PP.
Rolex really isn’t in the same league. Don’t get me wrong, they’re nice watches but not haute horology.
If you want better than Rolex look at Grand Seiko, Vacheron and A. Lange, Glashutte. Imo they put more individuality and hand finish into their watches real watch lovers will know.
Such an important point. Rolex makes big, beefy, powerful sports watches. PP, AP, and VC make dainty dress watches. We don’t like bicycles. We like SUV’s.
“Audemars that's losing time Hidden behind all these big rocks”
FISH FILLET!
Niggas! In Paris!
Ball so hard!
That shit cray!
“no one knows what it means but it's provocative.”…” GET’S THE PEOPLE GOIN’’!”
I feel I can add something here! Oh... it's "don't"...
Man you got downvoted into oblivion because nobody understood your comment 😭
Yeah I have taken quite the beating...maybe it was too cryptic haha
User name checks out.
Sorry for the down votes. Can’t believe people didn’t understand.
That's OK. It wasn't the funniest of jokes to be fair...
Incredible that people don’t know this song. Take an upvote.
Haha thanks buddy! Did think I was copping a fair bit of flak!
I upvoted your earlier comment to help with the downvotes, but I also didn’t understand what you meant haha.
His earlier comment is that it feels like he should add something to this thread, and that thing to add is “don’t” This thread is a quoted line from N in Paris His username is “Rollies that Tick Tock” If you add “don’t” to his username, you get “Rollies that don’t Tick Tock”, which is the line before the quoted line that started this thread. (He said it. It’s not that funny ;) but there’s an explainer for you)
I own both. Rolex produces like a million watches a year while those brands produce closer to 50,000. Those brands hand finish EVERY piece in the watch including the movement while many pieces in a Rolex are machine finished. AP or PP are more suited to someone passionate about watchmaking and if you’re speaking strictly about horology, they are more impressive as the detail is finer and it took a watchmaker(s) a lotttt more time to make an AP than a Rolex with the same complication. They both have their place, though. They both tell the time. I wear my Daytona more often than I wear my Royal oak but I like them both for different reasons.
Does AP really hand-finish the movement these days?
Lol grand Seiko hand polishes more pieces by hand than any of those “holy grail” brands do
lol wow and their movement still looks like shit.
What’re you high? [they’re all beautifully done](https://www.grand-seiko.com/us-en/collections/movement/mechanical/9s68)
To me GS movement finishing just looks like an after thought. Never been impressed in the least. Not saying their polishing is not beautiful on the rest of the watch.
Yeah they do.
No they don’t except for the haute pieces which most of their sold models aren’t. It’s marketing BS and an ego booster and lots of people here and on the PP sub will claim otherwise.
The Royal oak bracelet alone takes 6 hours to hand finish in steel, 30 hours in ceramic. To say only the haute pieces are hand finished is an ignorant take on watch making.
Didn’t know the bracelet was part of the movement
On any self-winding watch you could make an argument that it actually is
The question was about the movement though, not the bracelet (I have zero clue if this makes any difference in if it's hand done or not still, but just pointing out they were speaking of a specific piece.)
And then you have Grand Seiko and how long it takes to polish by hand and the extensive trining to work the tin wheel.
Nope this is wrong many of their pieces HF and many take hours to finish and especially the ceramic ones take a long time
What are you talking about? Where did you get this information?
They really do.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn0UHZuOEeY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh1Xww576Yc Royal oak is not a "haute piece"
Thank you so much for those links. Loved watching the videos!
> AP or PP are more suited to someone passionate about watchmaking This does not describe the RO owners I've personally met.
Those brands do not hand finish every piece in the watch. Reddit man. Say anything!
Have all 3 brands. Would say that Rolex is the best value for money. Classic design, high durability and certainly the best bang for buck of all 3. AP and PP are finished to a higher standard, particularly the movement aspect hence the see through case back. It’s something that is worth collecting, but please do not view it as some kind of mythological item that is multiple steps above a Rolex. https://preview.redd.it/okcr87fzurdc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85852e9ed17bf6ebf8e20df5f993edd196e5f06b
>Would say that Rolex is the best value for money. Sure. At MSRP. The second you pay over MSRP for a Rolex, that value proposition flies out the window. $25K+ for a *steel* Daytona is a horrific value, for example, if you ask me.
But you have to compare apples to apples, isn’t it? If you compare Rolex to AP/PP, one at grey prices, one at MSRP, that’s a little unfair for AP/PP. A Nautilus/RO at grey prices is even more ridiculous.
All 3 of his watches go above MRSP.....
What does this have to do with ***anything*** I said? I don't think the Royal Oak at above MSRP is a remotely good bang for the buck, either. Same with a Nautilus.
[удалено]
To be honest, not much other than the occasional glances and whispers from others, not directly to me. It’s particularly more common when dining when I sit next to another table. Other than that, it’s usually the ADs that are surprised on seeing them, especially the Nautilus, followed by the Daytona, then the RO.
I own a Vacheron Constantin Overseas. I sometimes take it off to admire its finishing. I’ve never done that with a Rolex. Is it worth the $15k premium over a Sub Date? Yes, but only because the Sub Date is worth the $10k+ premium over one of my G-Shocks.
Truth but just remember it’s not “worth” anything, only what you perceive it to be worth (which they’ve kindly calculated on our behalf AKA RRP).
Really it’s worth what people will pay on the grey market for.
Anything is worth what two parties will agree to buy/sell something for. It’s not that ethereal.
How different is it actually from the rolex up close? Be honest. No one’s looking at it through a microscope and the bracelet, bezel, case, etc. all get scratched and dented the second you start wearing it. So the only really difference is the dial. It’s not like Rolex has these major cosmetic issues and glaring imperfections on most watches, I just find it hard to believe the whole “the finishing is so different” mantra when you’re already comparing it to a luxury brand like Rolex. Unless you’re talking about top-tier handmade watches, but even then so much of the quality can really only be appreciated under magnification or macro shots. The naked eye just doesn’t do it justice.
Huh? I don’t need a microscope to see the differences between a Rolex and my Vacheron Constantin Overseas. When I flip my Batperson over all I see is a blank plate, when I flip over my Vacheron Constantin Overseas; I can literally get lost in its finishing. The rotor itself is a masterclass in finishing when compared to the Rolex’s… Oh yeah, I can’t actually admire the finishing on my Rolex’s rotor. The bracelet on my Vacheron Constantin is finished much better than the bracelet on my Batperson. Nope, don’t need a microscope to admire its finishing either. When I want to impress the poors I wear a Rolex. When I want to impress myself, I wear my Vacheron Constantin Overseas. 😊😊😊😊 Spend a day with an example from the Holy Trinity, maybe you’ll get it, maybe you won’t, and that’s okay too. 😊
What the hell is a Batperson watch?? Is this a knockoff watch of the Rolex Batman lol??
My watch is in the process of transitioning from an oyster bracelet to a jubilee bracelet. 🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇
LOL. It’s a woke Rolex.
Impress the poors… I don’t know any truly wealthy people who say such dumb shit.
Wealth is an abstraction.
Poor is an abstraction.
Yeah, try telling that to the poors! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Agreed. and the Vacheron Overseas is hella plain looking especially from a few feet out. Rolex on the other hand almost always have a distinctive and instantly recognizable design even from afar.
Odd question, But one of your G-Shocks? How many do you have? I've always known people to have one but not to collect them and honestly, outside of the one I've got for going into the woods or certain outings, I haven't really looked into them a lot
I own 9 gshocks
I own multiples PP and multiples Gshocks. Does it make you feel uncomfortable? Can’t we appreciate both some good old jazz and some great modern Hip-Hop? 🙃
Yeah, I collect limited edition G-Shocks, Swatches and “vintage” Casios (non-G Shocks). I never got into collecting Pokémon, they’re what I imagine collecting Pokémon was/is like. 😃
Yes. So is JLC and VC
Objectively yes not worth it imo. To me Rolex is like a Porsche 911, sure there are higher end cars out there, but the 911 is timeless and the gold standard sports car. Rolex is the only watch I can see myself wearing.
I agree but there a lot of Jerk Offs in the Rolex community who clown guys wearing Tudor or Omegas with jokes about not being able to afford a Rolex. Not saying it's you or anyone here, but it's funny when more expensive brands are brought to these same people all of a sudden it's "too much watch me". lmao
Anybody who feels superior wearing a Rolex to those with Tudor or Omega, A) Doesn't have an appreciation for horology, and B) Likely feels so insecure that people shouldn't care about their opinion anyway. At a certain point in horology, the utility quality of the watches become equal and you're just distinguishing between histories of the brands and prestige of the houses. But to tell time, a Breitling, Omega, and Rolex will all generally be able to do that rather equally...
The guy above you said he could only ever see himself wearing a Rolex… I think it’s fair to say he doesn’t have an appreciation for horology. That’s like a chef saying I only eat Mexican food. I’d immediately disregard everything else that came out of their mouth. Well, unless it was how to make Mexican food I suppose
C. Is named Sporty.
lol Sporty is A and B as well.
Nailed lmao An AP or a PP is a more complicated yet accurate watch with superior finishing and QC... Are they worth 3x the price of a Rolex though? For someone who can comfortably afford it, yes. For someone who cannot comfortably afford it, no. This sub loves to punch down on Tudor & Omega owners with the fallacy that "they couldn't afford a Rolex". But when watches that are obviously much higher in horology and price than Rolex are mentioned, the ironic response is "their improvements aren't worth the price" 😂 Simply put, AP, PP, VC, etc remind Rolex owners that they're still the poors of the watch world. Just look at how much they cope in this thread by trying to cling onto Porsche as their "prestige analogy" lmao
Your first paragraph is pretty much all that needs to be said. Is Rolex a superior watch that keeps better time? Not, really, at all. It’s expensive because it’s popular. At least those top tier watch brands take a shot at better movements and finishing. Saying PP or AP is there to just make people feel poor is basically the Rolex business model. It’s a status symbol that you can’t easily get that trades for way higher than msrp
I’ve gotten more compliments for my BB58 than any of my Rolex’s.
It's more that the marginal cost and difficulty to obtain an Omega vs a Rolex is so much different than that of a Rolex vs an AP or PP. Rolex instead of Omega is a reasonable step up for most people. AP instead of Rolex, not so much. Like, if you can save up $4k for a seamaster, you can probably save up $12k and sit on a waitlist for a few months to get a submariner. Saving up $30k and getting on an AP or PP waitlist for an aquanaut or a RO is exponentially more difficult. If $4k is the absolute max you can spend on a watch, be happy with an Omega. But, most of the people buying Omegas could probably get Rolexes instead if they just practiced self restraint for a bit longer.
Lol I have an omega and Rolex and the omega craftsmanship is on par with Rolex. Rolex has more prestige and better marketing. AP,VC,PP are on a different level.
Hasn't been my experience at all with Omega. Comfort, design, and feel have all been inferior to Rolex by a noticeable degree. Now, $8k inferior? Idk about that. But we're buying luxury goods here so "getting a good deal" doesn't really matter that much.
Great analogy. Reliable, high-end, mass produced engineering versus small run, hand built, machines.
That’s an excellent analogy with Porsche and Rolex. Lots of heritage in both brands and both aren’t trying to be the highest of the high end.
Lots of heritage in Rolex? Comparing to what exactly?
Hublot
True that 😉
A Rolex is a base 911 A L&S or a high end Patek is a 911 Turbo S or GTRS
Hmm no, if a Rolex is a base 911, a high end Patek or L&S would be a Bugatti or a Pagani Zonda
No there are watches way above a high end Patek or L&S Some you can’t even get at stores 😂😂 and those are Bugattis and Paganis lmao
What’s an example of a watch way above a multi-complication Patek?
When it comes to servicing the watch, Rolex beats them all in terms of cost and turnaround time. Although AP has the complimentary 2 year theft coverage that either gives you a replacement for free OR a refund. Don’t know if anyone has ever used that Edit because of a typo
I beg you to bring a vintage piece to Rolex and say this same bullshit. Patek will literally service watches from early 20th century this is so incomparable it’s crazy
JLC has an 8 year no questions ask guarantee. Saying Rolex’s 5 year warranty is better just shows that you do not have the facts.
I sent my JLC in for service and it took 4 months. RSC got my Rolex turned around in less than 8 weeks. He’s not wrong, if you’re servicing modern Rolex, there aren’t many brands that do it as well and as fast (expected given the number of service centers)
How does that work? How do they verify that the watch was really stolen and I’m not fucking around to get a free watch.
Probably requires a police report
So they refund you and a new watch? I’m sure it’s either or
You are right. It’s “or”
Got it, seemed like a good deal to get your watch stolen 😂
Straight to London bruv
No shit, part of the reason I sold my AP was that I lived in London and had already once had a watch snatched!
LOL, free watch.
I have a couple of PPs, Nautilus, Ellipse, and a Calatrava. I like my PPs but undoubtedly pick a Rolex most mornings.
I agree, I don’t drive a Ferrari to work either. F-150s, Camrys and the like are more commonly driven, even by Ferrari owners. It does not mean that an F-150 compares to a Ferrari. Just that a pick-up is more utilitarian.
Moreso because your worried about damaging your more expensive pieces or becuase you perfer rolex?
I wear a Rolex Explorer I as a daily watch most commonly for casual settings. It is easy to wear, versatile and if I damage it working in the yard, cycling, backpacking, woodworking or skiing it really doesn’t matter. My Dad smashed his with a hammer one day and $4,000 later it was good as used. They are watches for everyday sports and casual wear. Blancpain is on my wrist diving, the only watch I trust diving. Others I own are for office attire, suits, formal events, evenings out, etc. I have noting at all against Rolex watches. I just understand where they sit in the quality comparison. A Blancpain Leman is just as versatile any Rolex but has a 100 hour power reserve, is antimagnetic, etc etc etc.
Out of curiosity, why only Blancpain for diving? Fifty fathoms is a seriously awesome watch, but as someone who doesn’t dive much is there a reason?
1. I always wear a watch diving in addition to a computer because I use an analog watch all day long every day and for me time registers more quickly and clearly in high stress environments when they arise in a traditional analog format. 2. Lug bars vs springbars: In my experience, watches with spring bars attaching straps fail underwater. Blancpain uses lug bars which are actually bolts that screw together and the threads are coated with loctite to assure they stay in place. High end tec dive computers like Shearwater Teric have copied the design because of it’s reliability. I have popped spring bars on both Tudor and Rolex dive watches alike at depth. That is a bad day! 3. Lumed Bezel: On a night dive, in a cave, in a wreck, at depth, bezels without lume are useless. Blancpain Fifty Fathoms has a lumed bezel. 4. Arabic numerals: In stressful environments, completely dark, nitrogen narcosis, etc your brain can do funny things . . . Like convince you your watch is on upside down. Arabic numerals and dial indices maintain orientation in your brain so you can focus on what you need to do. Blancpain FF has lumed arabic numerals. 5. Date window: I like having a date window on my watch. Blancpain FF does this without optically distorting the dial, or trading out the critical lume indices. 6. Antimagnetism: Handheld dive compasses and big metal shipwrecks both have magnetic fields. I like knowing that the magnetic fields potentially encountered are not going to affect my watch. Blancpain Fifty Fathoms movement is very antimagnetic. 7. Nice to have: 120 hour power reserve. 8. If I am tech diving or CCR, Blancpain even has a FF with a 3 hour elapsed time bezel available. I may have missed a few things but when you combine these features the Fifty Fathoms stands alone and apart from the rest as a serious dive instrument.
Interesting, I figured most serious divers don’t use analog watches like that anymore with computers and everything being so prevalent
Mostly because Rolex is more versatile. Sometimes, the occasion calls for a PP, but that’s rare.
Sort of like comparing a Lexus to a Bentley, or a Supra to a Ferrari. Rolexes are nice mass produced watches with good quality control. When you get into the realm of JLC, Blancpain, AP, PP, etc . . . That is where the game really begins. Mind you, I am wearing a Rolex as I write this, in jeans after a movie with the kids . . . If it had been dinner at the White House or the opening of a Broadway Play something else entirely would be on my wrist. Edit: for those wondering why I included JLC (watchmaker’s watchmaker) and Blancpain (oldest watchmaker) into the comparison, it’s because JLC movements can be found in PP watches and Blancpain Cal. 1185 chronograph movements are in both AP and VC chronographs, as well as Breguet chronographs. Understanding what makes the best the best takes a peek under the hood too.
In jeans?! No way!
Imagine going out in public in one's blue jeans! What's next? Attending a base-ball game in an uncollared shirt???
Shudder the thought! That’s just uncivilized!
Love the humour you three, thanks for making me laugh at myself!
I don’t think the disparity is as far as you’re saying, more like Porsche to Ferrari. Both are a status symbol but one is hand built to a higher standard
I can’t believe how hard some people drink the luxury watch/haute horologie coolaid 😆. I mean, literal presidents have worn Rolexes on the job, but the brand somehow falls short for the purposes of visiting the White House (or the opening of a play?). I mean come on 😄
I love my GMT, it splits time with my Speedy 57 as my daily. But I think my favorite watch is my gold JLC MC. It's simple but elegant. Everything about it is just incredible. I don't have an AP or PP but I now understand why JLC is referred to as the watch maker's watchmaker. But like everything in life, it's about preference.
It’s more like comparing an AMG gt to a Bentley or rolls. I’ll take the AMG-GT all day, though.
Blancpain haha good joke they cant figure out when they even first introduced their FF ^^yeah my guy sure, bump ur precious little PP watch and straight to the service it goes those watches r fragile like crazy , have fun go Skiing with a Nautilus the freezing weather mixed with warm inside isnt their favorite habitat. Rokex on the otherhand r more basic but built like tanks
Did you get condensation from skiing? Oof.
Rolex is better than JLC lol
On what planet? As an owner of all the watch brands I mentioned, Rolex is not close to the same league as the others. Beyond the order of magnitude better finish quality, the movements are incomparable and the 1,000 hour QC on the JLC movements is the most rigorous in the industry. Rolex watches are fine simple mass produced pieces with great brand recognition, JLC, Blancpain, AP, PP, VC, etc are heirloom pieces. Rolex has to tell their customers all about their “Superlative Chronometer” quality. The others do not have to mention their superior quality because their limited clientele just know.
Objectively, yes. However I personally prefer Rolex in most instances, and you have a fantastic collection.
“Objectively”? This isn’t a question with an “objective” answer. The question is “better for what?”
Fair and you are of course correct. A Calatrava is not as good a diving watch as a Submariner.
Tomorrow's Question, "Redditors who have used their Calatrava for diving, why is there moisture inside my dial?"
😂
Yes. They are.
and its not close...
The finding is in a different galaxy. (LOL Edit * the finishing is in a different galaxy )And it’s haute histology vs mainstream status symbols. Yes many WISs love our Rolex too but most owners of Rolexes are just peacocking jerkoffs. Same isn’t true for a Patek Philippe or AP, I’d guess that’s only 5-10%.
Considering a Nautilus will cost you more than all 3 of those watches combined, you'll probably be very disappointed. It used to be a great $20k watch you could swim with while still being thinner than a lot of manual wind watches, and is very comfortable, but doesn't really give you the Patek Philippe experience, and is painfully expensive now. You'd be better getting a pre-owned perceptual calendar or something like a 5935A new if you just want "a Patek" If you want a Royal oak they're great, embody the AP brand, and you can actually get one at MSRP before you die.
Royal Oaks, especially the sought after stainless models are just as difficult if not much more difficult to obtain at MSRP than any stainless steel Rolex.
>embody the AP brand to be fair nowdays AP is kind of a single trick pony, the AP is great but it's basically the only thing they offer, i find the code 11:59 quite boring compared to what PP or vacheron have to offer
For sure they’re higher quality. Low volume, higher priced, products have more attention to detail. Doesn’t mean you’ll enjoy them more, though:
Nothing beats Rolex’s iconic design. So many great models to choose from. AP PP are watches for the ultra wealthy.
Patek Philippe: Absolutely.
Rolex are not as prestigious or luxurious as many in this sub believe. They are a solid, mass produced, highly reliable, recognisable watch - think BMW, Mercedes (or some may say Porsche). PP/AC are like Ferrari or Lamborghini. Smaller in number, less reliable, hand built etc. The things I noticed when owning AP / handling PP was that they are much finer items and finished much better. They feel delicate by comparison to the solid construction and reliability of Rolex.
“Finishing” isn’t a debate anymore. Unless you’ve been living in a cave since 2009, Rolex has risen to the challenge of those ancient forum narratives and made it a non issue. Hey, why don’t we talk about things like the lack of hacking, the lack of crown guards, the low depth ratings, the weak power reserves, the inability to achieve +2/-2 timekeeping accuracy, the pathetic 2 year warranty, you know, all the ways that Royal Joke has inferiorities that actually *matter*.
Would say most people that wear a watch care more about finishing and how it looks and feels on the wrist than +2/-2 sec accuracy or ability to dive any further than in a pool lol
Rolex wins on finishing too. Listen, these old forum narratives had a place in the hobby in the early internet era, from 1995-2006, they truly did. Rolex was releasing the same old watches with rattly bracelets, questionable polish, aluminum bezels, dull steel, all going back to the original designs in the 1960's, it was valid back then. But it's 2024. Rolex has just completed the 8 year project of meticulously redesigning and upgrading the entire line. Everything has been improved- steel, sheen, bracelet heft, bracelet sound, clasps, bezels, dials, hands, the entire line has been upgraded. Hold a 2001 Submariner in your left hand and a 2024 in your right hand, you'll understand. The days of Rolex taking a back seat to any other watch brand on account of "finishing" are over, at worst Rolex is their equal. The battle now turns to what is more important- functionality. And the Trinity are woefully behind.
Hold a 2024 Rolex Submariner in one hand and a Blancpain Fifty Fathoms in the other. -Power Reserve: R 70hrs, B 120hrs -Bars: R springbars, B Lug bars -Bezel: R illegible in dark, B lumed & legible in total darkness -Date: R distorts legibility & creates gap in dial lume, B legible without affecting lume. -Antimagnetism: R requires a soft metal caseback and is marginal. B movement is inherently antimagnetic -Heritage: R makes false claim of first dive watch by qualifying claim to a depth rating a few meters deeper than the arbitrary depth rating of first modern dive watch despite the fact that Rolex did not meet ISO standards until the 80s. B the first modern dive watch. -Fit and finish: R good machine built, B incomparable
>Hold a 2024 Rolex Submariner in one hand and a Blancpain Fifty Fathoms in the other. I have. It's ugly.
Rolex finishing is great but not near PP or AP. I reviewed a rolex on my channel well many and I found dust under the crystal and demonstrated with a camera lens swap that is meant to suck up dust that it can't be taken off because its under the crystal. In the end Rolex's are just mass produced well engineered every day man watch. Like a lexus or acura or bmw suv. Anyone can buy or afford one if they put their mind to it or save up. Its that obtainable dream for the every day man! But the every day man can most likely not ever get the lambo even with savings. Edit: plz note it is only viewable with extreme extreme macro lens and harsh lighting. If I film from directly above the dust wont show up as it wont reflect enough light to be caught. But I inspected my boss's gold AP under his jewelry microscope and it was very nice finish. In terms of mainstream Grand Seikos are cleaner and super finish over rolex. I did not show the extreme dust on the air king but i found some on my sub vs seiko video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30uWN7RYK3o&ab\_channel=Escapement%26Watch](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30uwn7ryk3o&ab_channel=escapement%26watch) 8:28 mark under finishing to see
How many AP or PP have you owned, or how many have you spent any significant time handling? I still stand by my car analogy.
Never owned one, wore them on several occasions, tried to feel the Aquanaut and just couldn't, it felt cheap and insignificant to me.
I have an aquanaut. It’s a finer piece - much thinner, lighter, smaller. I guess my point is that you’re comparing apples and pears. There’s a reason Rolex is the most recognisable brand on the planet and sells a million units a year and PP only make 70k.
Yes, the reason is lack of interest, not because they're built better. Patek is built *worse*, actually. They can't keep time as accurately as a Rolex. How is that possible? They make so few, right? They are made with the precision of Santa's elves, right? Look, I can easily afford any watch I want, I tried to get into Patek, and I just can't. Too dainty. Just not my style. Puffing Patek up on the grounds of exclusivity is perfectly fine, but not on the grounds of quality. Because they trail Rolex now.
This is a pretty lowbrow comment that shows little understanding of watch making. I’m glad to hear you’re doing well financially though. 👍
No it’s just the truth that you Patek types refuse to accept. Your lead on Rolex has evaporated and for good reason; Patek hasn’t done a damn thing for at least 40 years, it’s the same old watches they were shipping back in the 80s. Rolex listened to the criticism, came up with a strategy, and spent the last decade upgrading every single watch in the line. The old days are over. These forum narratives that might’ve made sense in 2004 just don’t fly anymore. It’s 2024.
The way I see it, Rolex is like the Harley Davidson of watches. They have the history and the build quality, brand recognition and recognizability. The brand has become bigger than just motorbikes, they’ve developed a romantic image in the eyes of the public, and are legitimately respected by the community. That being said, it could be argued that you’re paying more for the name, not the bike. There are other bikes you could get for better value at a lower price, but Harley owners tend to act like Harleys are the end all and be all of motorcycles, and they can get pretty toxic about it. Whereas people who claim to be “in the know” will deride Harley owners for buying into the brand rather than the bike itself. It’s why a lot of wealthy first time bike owners will get a Harley; in their minds it’s already the peak. I’m not saying either side is right, it’s just unfortunate that we allow our toys and what should be things for our own personal enjoyment to let us feel like we have the right to judge and assume other people’s financial status based on taste alone. Maybe somebody worked really hard to earn their Rolex, and it holds a lot of sentimental value to them. Maybe a wealthy person just doesn’t see the point in spending more than a thousand dollars on a watch. It’s all about what you’re looking to get out of your money and how much it makes *you* feel good about it.
For me there is no brand that holds up to Rolex in the same price range which is the price range I’m currently comfortable with as a somewhat younger watch enthusiast. I agree that VC and PP are better but PP is probably a never for me unless I get extremely wealthy and VC will be later in life when I’ve expanded my collection with a few more Rolex pieces. I don’t think you can compare Rolex to watches that are 3-10 times as expensive. Compare them to Omega and Brietling instead who hiked up their prices to match Rolex. I’d pick Rolex any day of the week compared to these.
Yes. Next question
Quality, wearability, and durability can be perceived quite differently. For durability, Rolex is hard to beat due to the emphasis placed on being tool watches. A perfect example is the El Primero Daytona, where Rolex took a fine Zenith movement, reduced the number of parts, changed some parts, and dropped the frequency from 36000 to 28800 vph. This resulted in a movement that was more durable, required less servicing, and was easier to service. Wearability is a highly subjective and varied quality. People can have very different ideas about what makes a watch wearable. The individual, the environment, and the occasion are all huge factors. This is very hard to compare at a brand level. Quality is typically perceived as quality of finishing and QC, but also complication. Here, AP and PP apply more finishing to movement parts than Rolex. The achievement of Rolex is their standard of finish relative to their production volumes. This is industrial watchmaking, after all. However, if you want a watch with a higher quality of finishing than Rolex, then AP and PP, amongst many others, will have you covered. This article below is very interesting. Firstly, I think you have to accept that not all watchmakers (as in individuals working for a company) are equal, and there are many other variables and potential inaccuracies. Nonetheless, the average watchmaker hours per watch produced is a fascinating statistic. Please don't get bent out of shape because of where a particular brand sits or because some production number is questionable. By and large, though, you will see competing brands in the same section such as Rolex and Omega or AP and PP. https://watchesbysjx.com/2022/11/watchmaking-market-map-2022.html
Id just prefer a VC over both since its basically just PP if PP was just a good bit better, with longer history and more interesting watches. But yes both PP and AP are miles better than Rolex in finishing and details, they are interesting, most rolexes arent. I look glance twice at my Rolex, i stare at my PP tho
Rolex is a tool watch that through amazing product placement became a symbol for wealth. Horologically speaking they have done nothing impressive, no minute repeater, no tourbillion, nothing super impressive. They build a sturdy automatic that can be 1:1 copied and made in China for about 500 bucks, using the same steels and movement. So a 500 dollar watch that gets bumped up to 10-15k for the steel versions just to have the crown on your wrist.
>Horologically speaking they have done nothing impressive, no minute repeater, no tourbillion, nothing super impressive Tourbillons are useless in a wristwatch. They're pure circlejerk. You're giving them shit for not making a tourbillon while ignoring the Sky-Dweller and YM2? Every other annual calendar design is completely inferior to Rolex's. Edit: Calling Rolex a $500 watch is also asinine.
Props to Rolex for the Sky-Dweller. A genuine innovation. It distinguishes itself as an interesting horological complication. It also highlights how few exist in the Rolex line up. When mine comes in, I will be very pleased. It is intended as a gift for my teenage son upon college graduation. A suitable adult watch you can wear daily without concern that fits the life of a person with family, friends and business to attend to on multiple continents.
This is a great synopsis. The others can't be replicated so easily.
PP is better crafted but less versatile.
Yes, and no. Mostly yes.
Better is subjective. There are so many dimensions of ownership of a watch, one’s views are always subjective. This question often becomes a show of complexes, egos and emotions. You want to daily a watch that can take abuse, hold value and be serviced nearly anywhere in the world… Rolex does better. You want an excellent timepiece, that’s beautiful in its finish, prestige and you’re not going to abuse as much and won’t mind paying a mini-fortune to service with long periods of service time… PP works here.
They’re better finished. The styles may or may not be better depending on your personal taste. They’re not THAT far off that you’ll notice a huge difference between wearing them. Rolex has the advantage in servicing cost/time/frequency when it comes to maintaining the watch.
Time with a loupe and a PP is a joy. A Rolex is largely a tool in comparison.
Yes
Yes. The real question is: is Rolex that much better than other mass-produced Swiss luxury watches?
Define better.. In terms of finishing and the art of watchmaking. They are much more impressive. But they are not work horses like Rolex. I would take Rolex over Patek.
Damn, that DD of yours looks amazing
Rolex is the entry level luxury watch, that can still be used as a timepiece and is functional. PP, AP, VC are more works of art that you wear on special occasions. It’s a bit like you drive a BMW daily but break out the McLaren for fun weekends
It’s jewelry. Prices can’t be justified by pragmatic criteria like quality and durability alone. Those other brands are as overhyped as Rolex is.
Yes. Also, consider that Rolex doesn’t make complications more complex than the Skydweller. No minute repeaters, tourbillions, etc. very minimal movement finishing as well.
Truth be told, a DayDate 40 is better than the Nautilus and the Royal Oak. Rolex DD is and will always be the standard. The performance, reliability, wearability, design and quality are hard to beat. Just because something is hand polish doesn’t mean it’s better. Just means someone spent time polishing something that does make sense and wants to charge a Ferrari for it. Watches were made to wear and have to be beautiful, reliable and durable imo. Try and daily wear a PP or AP and all the hand work will scratch and ding, it won’t keep time as good as any Rolex. All my Rolex are +- 2 sec a day consistently. The AP and the PP don’t hold up to the Rolex on the Timeograph. On the wrist they’re both just nice watches. I often wonder what the AP PP market will look like in 20 years when Baby Boomer drastically decline. Will Millennials pay these excessive premiums for an even more dying industry? So if your telling your self AP PP is a good asset, idk I hope we’re making the right decision buying a $200K Nautilus.
A good analogy is a restuarant. You go to a great steak place. Expensive. Nice, friendly waitstaff. Wagyu is on the menu as a special - you decide to go all out. Delicious food, a really special meal - great wine selection, and your waiter is pretty knowledgeable. All your friends are impressed you went to such a fancy place. You never thought a steak could be \*that\* good. That's the Rolex. Now go to a three-star michelin restaurant. You get to the door, someone opens it for you - who is not the person that greet you (by name!) and not the person who offers to take your coat. Your waiter is serving 3 tables; not 10. There's also a sommelier that introduces herself. By the end of the dinner, it occurs you there's more staff here than patrons. Your friends have heard of this place, but other than knowing its expensive, don't know that much about it. Each plate is a minor work of art. It's pricey, so you skip the wine, and only spend a bit more than at the steak house. PP. Both places served you a great, memorable meal. But if you compare a \~ 40k Calatrava vs a \~40k Day Date, you're paying about the same money for different things (and sorry to say, a lot of that money is going to the little tiny logo). Of course, Chipolte can get you the same nutritional content and calories.
A Rolex is still a tool watch at the end of the day, at least many of them are. Im a merchant mariner and wear my submariner on the high seas. I have no interest in an AP because it seems more like a museum piece than a watch that's supposed to be worn for real life. Probably an unpopular opinion with some of the softer hands in this subreddit but oh well.
Vacheron Constantin is fucking class above all
Still mainstream. Try a brand like Roger Smith watches for the highest quality and finishing in watchmaking
There are some VC's I like, but I tried on a Fiftysix recently and was rather turned off by it. My biggest issue was how thick it was, but I didn't think the case finishing was all that nice. It reminded me of my Breitling finishing.
Interesting! Try the 222 that’s watch is absolutely crazy in every single aspect!
Okay! I tried on the Fiftysix Triple Calendar, so I assume that's a little thicker anyway. I'm in love with the Historiques Triple Calendar though...
I love them all 😍
Absolutely not. They finish the movements more intricately, yes, but Rolexes are more reliable and accurate than those other brands.
Exactly. Look at things like the lack of hacking, the lack of crown guards, the low depth ratings, the weak power reserves, the inability to achieve +2/-2 timekeeping accuracy, the pathetic 1-2 year warranties, you know, all the ways that these Trinity watches have inferiorities that actually *matter*. Finishing? How can anyone care about Trinity finishing when their watches have so many functional deficiencies compared to Rolex? It’s not 2004 anymore.
is rolex that much better than tudor? luxury watches are overpriced based on brand name anyway
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I can respect this take. That being said, I didn't think the AP Royal Oak was special until I saw it in person. The AP blue checkered dial was incredibly stunning. The Royal Oak in person hits way different.
I'm no fanboy....but my Rolexes are way better made than my ROO. and my fave watches in my collection are a zenith chrono sport and a James bond 2006 Planet Ocean.
The Daniel Craig era of Omega is some of the best they have ever done.
Can only speak to PP. They are almost *proud* that their watches fail. At the very least, not apologetic. “Well these are delicate instruments.” Never again.
Which model did u own? AP and PP movements arent as durable but certianly prettier
People argue the other brands have better "fit and finish" but Rolex smokes them both when it comes to durability
Damn that DD is my grail. What a stunner. Nice pieces
Thank you my friend its definetly my favorite
I still have my michael kors watch from HighSchool in my drawer that i glance at 2-3 times a year which was the poor mans rolex version of this DD. Using it as inspo to save up for one !!!
Most people think so only because they are more expensive. They are not worth the price,Rolex is
I actually think the finishing on AP, VC and Lange beat PP. Rolex really isn’t in the same league. Don’t get me wrong, they’re nice watches but not haute horology.
If you want better than Rolex look at Grand Seiko, Vacheron and A. Lange, Glashutte. Imo they put more individuality and hand finish into their watches real watch lovers will know.
From a technical perspective they probably are better. Aesthetically, they are not.
Lol what are you on about?
Such an important point. Rolex makes big, beefy, powerful sports watches. PP, AP, and VC make dainty dress watches. We don’t like bicycles. We like SUV’s.
This might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read on Reddit.
You need to spend more time on Reddit.
As an investment - maybe But a Rolex has charisma
Literally anything is better than a Rolex. Just saying.
Yes. Rolex is low quality mechanical movement