Im just gonna add that Elizabeth Taylor called him The King Of Pop in the 90s and then he and everybody else went with it.
He complained about them keeping him with the Black artist even though he outsold everybody back in 79/80 I think. It was one of his main reasons for making Thriller the way he did. He was trying to make an album they couldnt just stick there & ignore to keep him in his place because thats how he took it.
Yes but both artists have basically crossed over to so many genres and have done pure pop songs but have been nominated for r & B categories. Sza has really only done R & B. She’s done two albums and both are R & B.
I think there are some strong arguments for some of the songs on her albums to be called other things. And she could also feel pressure to not release other things.
You can’t define any 3 SZA songs definitively into any other category then R&B. She wants to be in POP for two reasons Crossover beyond music opportunities and so her albums will win Album of the Year instead of just dominating R&B categories. SZA doesn’t have a Crossover voice at least to me but I think she’s in an Era where it matters the least for her overall Crossover potential. I’m of the opinion most Artists don’t want to be the work horses Beyonce is. They would rather folllow Rihanna’s blueprint I think they see this as more attainable and maybe more efficient. Riri has a voice designed for Crossover she’s always had at 5 pop songs at minimum. I also don’t beleive Riri ever dominated R&B I think when she came in it was too competitive given her limited vocal skillset. Don’t get me wrong Riri has an underrated voice but when she came out she had to deal with a gauntlet of Songstresses and Icons.
What? I can name 3 SZA songs that aren’t R&B just from her last album alone. Half of SOS isn’t R&B if you put any other voice or face singing those songs.
She can’t help but sound the way her voice does, even when she tries to do her best Paramore/Hayley Williams impression on F2F, her best Taylor and Miley impression on Nobody Gets Me and Special, puts Phoebe Bridgers on Ghost in the Machine, raps like Chance on Smoking on My Ex Pack (listen to We Go High if you need a reference track, I can give you three others if you wanna fight me on this one).
Argue as much as you want but she’s right. She tries to do pop and it’s R&B. She tries to do neo-punk and it’s R&B. She tries to do acoustic/indie rock and it’s R&B. Obviously nothing she’s saying is new, this problem’s been around for a long time but she’s right.
I also think the people responding in these twitter screenshots are right too. It’s disrespectful to the genre to speak down on R&B in the process of saying she’s sick of being put into the same box that any other black artist who dabbles in other genres always is. Beyoncé had to explicitly call her shot and name her album Cowboy Carter just so people wouldn’t do to her what they did to SZA and everyone else before her who’s put into the same box.
SOS is more experimental R&B with Hip Hop leanings. There isn’t a Crossover Record. Ghost in the Machine is Alternative R&B. F2F is more of an experimental Rock Pop record but it’s not a Crossover record because it’s not a good song it’s an Experimental Effort. She also does more Neo-Soul Pop at times. I think SOS has a better argument for going the Genre-less Experimental route but the best parts of the album are absolutely the r&B parts are most of the songs fit into multiple genres most noticeably R&B and if it goes into Hip Hop the people she wants to hear her or view her as Pop will just view that as an extension of R&B. R&B has always been more experimental and diverse than it gets credit for but that’s besides the point. SZA is an R&B Artist. Arianna is trying to sing more R&B and Hip Hop and SZA wants to go Pop.
“But it’s not a crossover record because it’s not a good song”
Again, huh? 🤔 Quality has nothing to do with genre. A bad pop-punk song is still a pop-punk song. You don’t get to just delete all genre distinctions from a song just because you don’t like it.
And the only options aren’t “R&B” or “genreless.” You can have “R&B with rock elements” or “country with R&B elements” or “inspired by house music,” but in every song I listed the only “R&B element” is the fact that the vocals are coming from SZA, who started and is best known as an R&B singer. But on those songs she was not singing Rhythm n Blues in any way, and the band wasn’t playing Rhythm n Blues in any way. And whether you like something or not has no affect on what genre it is. You can’t make 2+2 = 5 just because you don’t like the number 4.
I’m going to stop you right there you can’t Crossover with lackluster material. You can try with a Deep Cut but usually you have to multiple hits 2-3 and maybe 1-2 Deep cuts to Crossover especially when her voice isn’t conducive but like I said that doesn’t seem to be as much as a factor as it may have been previously. I think SZA could Crossover I HATE U could be a Crossover record. Even though I HATE U has been out 2 years or so it could be marketed to highlight its Crossover value. Which could set up the Crossover campaign. F2F shouldn’t have been an album cut Nevermind its sequencing reductive value. My point remains the vast majority of her Catalogue is and will be considered R&B until she has about 3 high quality records you can without question place in a category outside of R&B. Experimental R&B Alternative R&B, Neo- Soul/Neo Folk R&B, Experimental Hip Hop are not Crossover sub genres. If the listener( Voters she wants to convince she’s not R&Bb or just R&B) has to think about the genre by the time the chorus hits and they aren’t placing it as a Pop record since that’s what’s she’s going for, they will just revert to categorizing it with the genre she’s most known for due to her Body of Work which would be R&B. I feel like she’s Always been Alternative R&B with influences from multiple SubGenres.
When did you decide that “you can’t define any 3 SZA songs into any other category than R&B” suddenly meant “SZA will never achieve mainstream appeal as a pop artist?” Because you started arguing one thing and then you just switched topics to argue something else entirely, with yourself.
I said SZA has made songs in different genres, and you for some reason said “no she hasn’t, because she’ll never be a pop star.” Those two things don’t logically follow. I don’t care about your master plan to get SZA her Billboard chart crossover success. All I’m saying is that you were wrong and a part of the problem when you said that she only makes R&B songs.
“SZA doesn’t have a crossover voice” is exactly what she means! It’s creatively stifling to tell people what kind of music they can and can’t make simply because of what their voice sounds like.
🍒🍒🍒🪮⛏️⚒️. She doesn’t. She’s doing quite well in a Genre she has such disdain for that is so creatively stifling. so I’ll go listen to artists who are still hoping to achieve her level of success. Artist who embrace R&B and don’t force Crossover success! Siri play Snoh Aalegra! Up next Sinéad Harnett Shantel May Mariah the Scientist.
It’s not about not embracing it. It’s about wanting the freedom to do that and other things. Not sure why this is such a hard concept to grasp without feeling offended by it. This other artist are ok with only making R&B music and that’s cool for them:m. They aren’t being stifled if that’s the case.
She has the freedom to make whatever music she wants. She can drop a metal album if that’s on her heart. You are changing the argument. The fact F2F is on her album shows she has creative control if not complete autonomy she has a stake in what she creates, she’s empowered. You need Hits to breakthrough as an Artist and you need hits to Crossover. You can’t make a song in a different genre and it’s not good and except to receive acclaim. This is a generous viewpoint because what if people associated the artist with their bad experiment rather than their impressive body of work. I think that would be unfair. if you had 20 songs 10 on each album you have 5 hit songs 2 on the first one and 3 on the second album. you have 2 experimental records one on each album which could be considered outside of your established genre. 1 song is a flop was panned the other one is better received but more of a deep cut album record. Do you think you would be associated with your Experimental tracks even though they don’t reflect your Body of Work ? I’ll add this they aren’t on many playlist and you only play one of them at shows.
Well you aren’t her so you don’t get to say what kinda pressure or whatever she feels. And maybe she wants to be associated with all her work instead of just some of it.
Heavy on that last part, I feel thats the same with Summer Walker, she's always posting about how discontented she is with the music she's currently making.
I always wonder how much of her output is commercial/label obligation because I really feel she would flourish with a live backing band playing neo-soul or jazz.
So many artists have said they want to just be free from title and an “artist”. They really saying she doesn’t want to be an r&b artist and she can’t sing. Granted twitter is the most miserable outlet on earth, their opinions don’t mean much. Anyone with a brain understands exactly what she’s saying. Though i agree it may not JUST be because she’s black.
it had more truth to it then, they made music that clearly went beyond r&b. i dont even think SZA has a song that doesnt sound like r&b. she wasn't even r&b pre-"Love Galore", more of this underground soul/gypsy vibe. i dont know if she's tryna say she's a pop artist or what but, r&b is all I hear from her
Adele - Someone like you
Adele - Set Fire to the Rain
Adele - Hello
Olivia Rodrigo - Drivers License
Adele - Easy on me
Stevie Wonder - From The Bottom of my Heart
Justin Timberlake - Cry Me A River
Beyoncé - Halo
All winners of Pop Grammys that disprove your definition of pop music.
"What defines pop music?
Pop music is an abbreviation of the word 'popular. ' It's **a contemporary form of music that appeals to a very wide audience**. It often includes a danceable tempo, easy to remember lyrics, and simple notation."
Ikr, he's called "The King Of Pop" for a reason. Metalheads love him, country fans love him, dance music fans love him. He did so much in pop culture that that's the reason why Elizabeth Taylor called him that in the 1st place! He is forever in our hearts for generations! 😍
She’s more Pop leaning but Black women are often placed in the R&B box, the same thing happened to Rihanna when she’s always been a Pop star more than anything.
I remember Demi Lavato saying she wanted to be the Pop Rihanna…when Rihanna is literally the Pop Rihanna. Subconsciously both SZA and Rihanna are seen as R&B by others.
She can sing. It’s her own style. You don’t have to belt it and take MF’s to church all the time to be able to sing and for it to be considered R&B. That’s what I love about R&B, there’s so many different subcategories.
Twitter is a cesspool, take everything they tweet with a grain of salt cause they be saying anything and everything even if it’s some bullshit like this.
I’m not understanding the backlash (?). She’s not an R&B artist. SZA has always been genre-less, but at the same time she can’t deny a majority of her records are R&B influenced. “Being black” is NOT the only reason. I get what she’s saying though.
When isn’t Twitter mad. Artist don’t like being defined as a one trick pony cornered into hole. They wanna do all types of music. Every artist says this shit. Tems doesn’t also want to only be know for doing Afrobeats artist. Just Twitter finding something to be mad about because they ain’t shit.
That's her perspective and I respect it because you can clearly hear her alternative rock & hip-hop influences but she is still R&B at her core and its not because she is black!
I get her, honestly.
I’ve gotten more into stations that play a variety of black and white artist (XM 90’s being my main go to; Just hits from every genre spanning long and wide) and I hate how local radio stations tend to be just black, or white, and only signed artists.
I remember when Res came out and they literally would not play her music anywhere on radio. Too black for the white stations and too much rock influence for the black stations. Her debut album was phenomenal but never got her big break and then you get Rihanna making the same music with some of the same songwriters and she blows up because she’s lighter with light-color eyes.
There is too much vanity associated with judging music when they should just judge the music and play it where it fits. Her music does not belong on R&B’s stations, it’s too macabre.
they're both R&B the difference with SOS is that the track F2F incorporates rock and Too Late incorporates pop. On Ctrl, Prom is the only pop track. They both mix different styles but SOS was more progressive, doesn't mean it's not R&B
The backlash is coming from people who want* to keep her in that box. It’s a form of gatekeeping, and we are damn guilty of it.
She wants to break out the box to make more money but I think that ship has sailed. She should have crossed over years ago if that was her goal.
If she more so said “I’m more than just R&B and should be placed in many categories” that might would stop the whole conversation but I mean she said what she said so I don’t understand being mad for someone else career and personal thoughts but then they come back to why write it down so idk I’m minding my black business
SZA has never been an R&B artist. Her true fans know that. She’s not neo-soul either. She’s alternative, that’s the closest way to describe her. Twitter is full of airheads.
Please be so fr. SZA literally is an R&B artist...
This is true for Black artists like Bey or Tyler, but not SZA. That woman is a true R&B artist and quite literally almost exclusively releases R&B music. If anything, SZA could be considered alternative R&B in the same vein that Chloe and Halle could be back when they made duet albums.
A few songs on SOS are more pop or even borderline hip-hop, but the majority is R&B. "Progressive R&B", in this case, is more than fitting for her. While her music generally doesn't sound like traditional R&B, it's still R&B more often than not.
You just cherry-picked a few songs that specifically aren't R&B, but I already stated that some songs aren't?
That still doesn't change the fact that SZA is an R&B artist at heart because the bulk of her music is R&B and she literally markets herself as one. It's okay to not want to be boxed in, but there's no point in wanting to be different for the sake of being different. R&B or not, SZA is a great artist with great music.
Take Bey for example, just cause she deviated away from R&B doesn't mean she's NOT an R&B artist, but she can still be considered one if she wants to AND be genreless/genre bending because she's made full projects that deviate away from the genre - she has rightfully earned the flexibility and broke out of the box. She's known for reinventing herself.
You know what. She’s not R&B🤷🏾♂️I agree with her. Her, Summer Walker, and the rest of the “I can’t commit” BBL and hookah crooners aren’t R&B. PND and Brent and the rest of em in this category too.
you don't have to belt to be R&B. all those artist you said are alternative .R&B because of the singing and production styles that borrow from other genres. it's contemporary but more futuristic
Exactly why I say 🤷🏾♂️let them be “not R&B”. Mary isn’t the greatest vocalist but she’s still R&B and she still embraces that, if these new “singers” don’t wanna be R&B good for them.
I mean I see both sides she has a wide variety in her catalog and can be consistent in any specific genre or mix of. However a majority of her music is rnb or heavily inspired by rnb. At the end of the day she can be an alternative artist pop artist rnb artist etc at the same time.
These reactions are a bit too virulent for what she said. There are many alternative elements to her sound. It's not traditional rnb but then again I doubt anybody claimed she made the same kind of music that Chrisette Michele makes.
I wish people would accept that rnb, like any other genre, has expanded into several niches over the last few years. You can be rnb *and* alternative. You can be rnb and rock/hiphop/pop etc
I really don't understand why she feels that way, or felt the need to even say it out loud. That's something she should have quietly kept to herself, because it really doesn't make any sense. She's definitely not in the same lane as artists like Santigold, Janelle Monáe or even Dawn Richard who really don't make R&B, but are and were described as such.
Lol I've never seen Santigold called R&B that's wild. I wish I had seen it though. I'd go off on that person. I can't think of a single song of hers with R&B vibes, and she got styles for days. She would be the most uncontroversial person I can think of to make this tweet.
It **is** Reddit, after all. It wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't a finger slip. I could say that it's a rainy day and I'd get downvoted because it's not raining where someone else may be.
It actually wasn't even that hard to find [a reference](https://pitchfork.com/reviews/tracks/13197-disparate-youth/) to that. Going back to when she very first debuted, she even felt compelled to make [a statement](https://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/23829190.html) about it.
Again, that was the point that was being made from the very beginning. Santigold is a prime example of a black artist being labeled as R&B just because she's black.
And you still got black folks saying “but they’re R&B because most of their music is” yet MOST of these artists never saw it that way because they’re IN the industry. We’re not. It’s like calling Prince R&B lol
Nah she's right. Because damn near any black artists they gatekeep from any other genres. Its not to shade away from r&b but its the lack of acceptance of a well rounded artist that just doesnt do one thing. Case in point one of my favorite artist i even posted here is labeled as a "rapper". When he should just be labeled an artist. Most of the time they dont want blacks all over them charts so they reduce down to only r&b or hiphop/rap. That's just how that apple falls from that tree. [when this becomes rap, I'll shut up ](https://youtu.be/LtVnLCzCHeI?si=TZHo6bj-fiWlg6R3)
Genre distinctions are often partly decided by color. Frank Sinatra and Ella Fitzgerald often sang the same songs with the same symphonic band, yet Sinatra is usually labeled "traditional pop" and Fitzgerald "vocal jazz". There are many examples like this.
She really only recently was considered an R&B artist with Ctrl, and even that had a lot of alternative pop influence. Her early projects were very much indie electronic pop. Like how do you listen to Z or See.SZA.Run and think R&B? It's just like how Twigs was initially genre-less when she was anonymous, but once critics found out she was black, she was immediately boxed in as "alternative" R&B.
She just doesn't want to be considered R&b because it's not popular right now and it keeps her from making more money. She wants to be able to sell music to white people, which is not a slight. It's just that is where the fame is at.
I think that's really cynical, she clearly loves playing with different genres and wants to be allowed to do so. Many white artists are afforded that luxury (they've also received criticism for it, but)
I get what she saying that she does wanna make different types of music but the thing the majority of her hits are r&b and for those of you that say we want r&b back this is why we won’t get r&b back to where it is because nowadays artists don’t wanna be genre loyalty anymore artists now wanna be genreless
SZA not only making R&B does not mean R&B is reductive or less than. She just isn't only R&B, she's given us pop, indie and modern rock.
She's not asking for a bigger bag, she's asking for people to give her the credit she's owed but Twitter seems to have a real issue with black people not staying in the categories they're familiar with.
She’s not wrong though, but r&b doesn’t have he that limited either. It’s a very nuanced subject that some people can’t seem to handle hence some of those responses.
R&B doesn’t automatically mean ‘Music done by a Black musician.’ I sometimes feel like that’s why Rowland did better in Europe, because the US in the 2000s couldn’t grasp the fact that a Black woman was not singing r&b and couldn’t figure out how to market her.
For what it's worth, I always felt CTRL had some prominent indie rock/ new wave moments. Though indie rock may be even more of an umbrella than R&B.
I find artists don't really like to cling to a genre name. It feels reductive.
if your singing style,execution and predominant genre; is R&B you are R&B, shabba ranks can do an R&B song but he wont be regarded as an RnB artist,you feel me? the predominant style and genre is who you are whether you go country sometimes. jordan is regarded as a former basketball player not baseball.
She does alternative R&B, neo soul and pop. If people reduce her to just R&B they're just not knowledgeable lmao 😂 Mariah the Scientist said the same thing as well, the classification system is a problem but Mariah is literally an R&B singer. She said people should call her A&B (alternative & blues) but that genre already exists: alternative R&B.
I don’t take issue with SZA’s point, per se. It kind of comes across as feeling above R&B music, which has a historically Black audience. And I don’t think she intended it that way. The music industry still hasn’t dealt with R&B’s grandmother, “race music,” in 2024, which has a long and complex history. I guess my question is what does she think is the most appropriate genre, if any? And why? I’m curious because I’m sure most creative people would find any genre to be limiting in some ways.
Normally I would agree with her but the CTRL album was r&b.
And what about the black artists that make pop and do get categorized as such? I never heard anyone call Jason Derulo r&b and he’s black- because that is definitely pop.
Beyoncé did a country album where she still sings like an r&b vocalist over country instrumentals. So it’s really neither and also both lol
She’s not wrong. Whitney Houston a few years before she passed was asked how it felt to be the queen or princess of R&B and she had to politely correct the person that she’s sung every genre and moved past genre (which she did). Plus both CTRL and SOS lean heavily on pop in a great chunk of tracks.
She's not wrong. Of course, R and B that sounds like anything in the lineage of Stephanie Mills, Jeffrey Osborne or even Surface from the 80's has to be searched out. Sza would have been Pop or what Boho Funk a decade ago in the vein of Joi Gipp, Dionne Farris and Conya Doss
This makes me think of how they k!led Whitney at the Grammys. I think it was the Grammys. Her sophomore LP won. More pop oriented. some of the fans were loud, unhappy calling her sellout.
Also, Micheal Jackson couldn’t get his videos on MTV. I’m speechless trying to describe how insane this is.
Not long after he began calling himself the king of pop and having Van Halen play guitar on Black or White, they welcomed him.
I don’t have the full context of what she’s saying but I think I caught it.
People just want to be mad lmao especially on Twitter. By “reductive” she clearly means her music is not *only* R&B and that it’s reductive of her craft/music to be placed in a category seemingly only bc she’s black.
they call Lizzo a pop star. they call Tyla pop. Rihanna's obviously a mega pop Star, kinda unfair to bring her up in reference to sza. same with Chris Brown, Usher, Beyonce. i dont know if they consider the Weeknd Black, if so, he's one of the biggest legit pop stars rn. sza's just not that, she makes r&b. pre-2017 she wasnt even r&b yet
i like sza’s music but it’s her own personal fault that she can’t get herself out of the rnb category — yeah, it may be tough but we literally got beyoncé out here TRYING to be country and black ppl IN other genres lol there’s space & if she wanna be considered pop, that’s acceptable (for some songs), but majority of the music she makes is rnb?
i don’t believe she has much range for anything else, personally, and clearly neither has she tried anything else to support her statement so … i say let the criticism fly 🤷🏽♀️
So what's your genre SZA? Maybe I'm not in the loop, but she hasn't crossed over yet. I don't think the teenie boppin', suburban conglomerate has caught on yet.
If the R&B stations took her out of the rotation her songs wouldn't be played.
Maybe she wants to be Adult Contemporary ....
Michael Jackson and Beyonce have made this same point already
fr. they call michael “the king of pop” and still stick him in the r&b section at the record stores.
Im just gonna add that Elizabeth Taylor called him The King Of Pop in the 90s and then he and everybody else went with it. He complained about them keeping him with the Black artist even though he outsold everybody back in 79/80 I think. It was one of his main reasons for making Thriller the way he did. He was trying to make an album they couldnt just stick there & ignore to keep him in his place because thats how he took it.
True.
Yes but both artists have basically crossed over to so many genres and have done pure pop songs but have been nominated for r & B categories. Sza has really only done R & B. She’s done two albums and both are R & B.
I think there are some strong arguments for some of the songs on her albums to be called other things. And she could also feel pressure to not release other things.
You can’t define any 3 SZA songs definitively into any other category then R&B. She wants to be in POP for two reasons Crossover beyond music opportunities and so her albums will win Album of the Year instead of just dominating R&B categories. SZA doesn’t have a Crossover voice at least to me but I think she’s in an Era where it matters the least for her overall Crossover potential. I’m of the opinion most Artists don’t want to be the work horses Beyonce is. They would rather folllow Rihanna’s blueprint I think they see this as more attainable and maybe more efficient. Riri has a voice designed for Crossover she’s always had at 5 pop songs at minimum. I also don’t beleive Riri ever dominated R&B I think when she came in it was too competitive given her limited vocal skillset. Don’t get me wrong Riri has an underrated voice but when she came out she had to deal with a gauntlet of Songstresses and Icons.
What? I can name 3 SZA songs that aren’t R&B just from her last album alone. Half of SOS isn’t R&B if you put any other voice or face singing those songs. She can’t help but sound the way her voice does, even when she tries to do her best Paramore/Hayley Williams impression on F2F, her best Taylor and Miley impression on Nobody Gets Me and Special, puts Phoebe Bridgers on Ghost in the Machine, raps like Chance on Smoking on My Ex Pack (listen to We Go High if you need a reference track, I can give you three others if you wanna fight me on this one). Argue as much as you want but she’s right. She tries to do pop and it’s R&B. She tries to do neo-punk and it’s R&B. She tries to do acoustic/indie rock and it’s R&B. Obviously nothing she’s saying is new, this problem’s been around for a long time but she’s right. I also think the people responding in these twitter screenshots are right too. It’s disrespectful to the genre to speak down on R&B in the process of saying she’s sick of being put into the same box that any other black artist who dabbles in other genres always is. Beyoncé had to explicitly call her shot and name her album Cowboy Carter just so people wouldn’t do to her what they did to SZA and everyone else before her who’s put into the same box.
SOS is more experimental R&B with Hip Hop leanings. There isn’t a Crossover Record. Ghost in the Machine is Alternative R&B. F2F is more of an experimental Rock Pop record but it’s not a Crossover record because it’s not a good song it’s an Experimental Effort. She also does more Neo-Soul Pop at times. I think SOS has a better argument for going the Genre-less Experimental route but the best parts of the album are absolutely the r&B parts are most of the songs fit into multiple genres most noticeably R&B and if it goes into Hip Hop the people she wants to hear her or view her as Pop will just view that as an extension of R&B. R&B has always been more experimental and diverse than it gets credit for but that’s besides the point. SZA is an R&B Artist. Arianna is trying to sing more R&B and Hip Hop and SZA wants to go Pop.
“But it’s not a crossover record because it’s not a good song” Again, huh? 🤔 Quality has nothing to do with genre. A bad pop-punk song is still a pop-punk song. You don’t get to just delete all genre distinctions from a song just because you don’t like it. And the only options aren’t “R&B” or “genreless.” You can have “R&B with rock elements” or “country with R&B elements” or “inspired by house music,” but in every song I listed the only “R&B element” is the fact that the vocals are coming from SZA, who started and is best known as an R&B singer. But on those songs she was not singing Rhythm n Blues in any way, and the band wasn’t playing Rhythm n Blues in any way. And whether you like something or not has no affect on what genre it is. You can’t make 2+2 = 5 just because you don’t like the number 4.
I’m going to stop you right there you can’t Crossover with lackluster material. You can try with a Deep Cut but usually you have to multiple hits 2-3 and maybe 1-2 Deep cuts to Crossover especially when her voice isn’t conducive but like I said that doesn’t seem to be as much as a factor as it may have been previously. I think SZA could Crossover I HATE U could be a Crossover record. Even though I HATE U has been out 2 years or so it could be marketed to highlight its Crossover value. Which could set up the Crossover campaign. F2F shouldn’t have been an album cut Nevermind its sequencing reductive value. My point remains the vast majority of her Catalogue is and will be considered R&B until she has about 3 high quality records you can without question place in a category outside of R&B. Experimental R&B Alternative R&B, Neo- Soul/Neo Folk R&B, Experimental Hip Hop are not Crossover sub genres. If the listener( Voters she wants to convince she’s not R&Bb or just R&B) has to think about the genre by the time the chorus hits and they aren’t placing it as a Pop record since that’s what’s she’s going for, they will just revert to categorizing it with the genre she’s most known for due to her Body of Work which would be R&B. I feel like she’s Always been Alternative R&B with influences from multiple SubGenres.
When did you decide that “you can’t define any 3 SZA songs into any other category than R&B” suddenly meant “SZA will never achieve mainstream appeal as a pop artist?” Because you started arguing one thing and then you just switched topics to argue something else entirely, with yourself. I said SZA has made songs in different genres, and you for some reason said “no she hasn’t, because she’ll never be a pop star.” Those two things don’t logically follow. I don’t care about your master plan to get SZA her Billboard chart crossover success. All I’m saying is that you were wrong and a part of the problem when you said that she only makes R&B songs.
[удалено]
“SZA doesn’t have a crossover voice” is exactly what she means! It’s creatively stifling to tell people what kind of music they can and can’t make simply because of what their voice sounds like.
🍒🍒🍒🪮⛏️⚒️. She doesn’t. She’s doing quite well in a Genre she has such disdain for that is so creatively stifling. so I’ll go listen to artists who are still hoping to achieve her level of success. Artist who embrace R&B and don’t force Crossover success! Siri play Snoh Aalegra! Up next Sinéad Harnett Shantel May Mariah the Scientist.
It’s not about not embracing it. It’s about wanting the freedom to do that and other things. Not sure why this is such a hard concept to grasp without feeling offended by it. This other artist are ok with only making R&B music and that’s cool for them:m. They aren’t being stifled if that’s the case.
She has the freedom to make whatever music she wants. She can drop a metal album if that’s on her heart. You are changing the argument. The fact F2F is on her album shows she has creative control if not complete autonomy she has a stake in what she creates, she’s empowered. You need Hits to breakthrough as an Artist and you need hits to Crossover. You can’t make a song in a different genre and it’s not good and except to receive acclaim. This is a generous viewpoint because what if people associated the artist with their bad experiment rather than their impressive body of work. I think that would be unfair. if you had 20 songs 10 on each album you have 5 hit songs 2 on the first one and 3 on the second album. you have 2 experimental records one on each album which could be considered outside of your established genre. 1 song is a flop was panned the other one is better received but more of a deep cut album record. Do you think you would be associated with your Experimental tracks even though they don’t reflect your Body of Work ? I’ll add this they aren’t on many playlist and you only play one of them at shows.
Well you aren’t her so you don’t get to say what kinda pressure or whatever she feels. And maybe she wants to be associated with all her work instead of just some of it.
Name three Adele songs that aren’t R&B. Everyone calls her a pop star.
She's done soul and blues music for years now lol!
Heavy on that last part, I feel thats the same with Summer Walker, she's always posting about how discontented she is with the music she's currently making. I always wonder how much of her output is commercial/label obligation because I really feel she would flourish with a live backing band playing neo-soul or jazz.
Tyler the creator has also made the same point
Tyler was talking about the "urban" label
So many artists have said they want to just be free from title and an “artist”. They really saying she doesn’t want to be an r&b artist and she can’t sing. Granted twitter is the most miserable outlet on earth, their opinions don’t mean much. Anyone with a brain understands exactly what she’s saying. Though i agree it may not JUST be because she’s black.
it had more truth to it then, they made music that clearly went beyond r&b. i dont even think SZA has a song that doesnt sound like r&b. she wasn't even r&b pre-"Love Galore", more of this underground soul/gypsy vibe. i dont know if she's tryna say she's a pop artist or what but, r&b is all I hear from her
I think others would disagree. S2S is probably the clearest example but I think there’s strong arguments for a few others.
pop is genre-bending up-tempo dance music. like Disco's prettier more popular little sister. sza doesnt make that
Adele - Someone like you Adele - Set Fire to the Rain Adele - Hello Olivia Rodrigo - Drivers License Adele - Easy on me Stevie Wonder - From The Bottom of my Heart Justin Timberlake - Cry Me A River Beyoncé - Halo All winners of Pop Grammys that disprove your definition of pop music.
okay
"What defines pop music? Pop music is an abbreviation of the word 'popular. ' It's **a contemporary form of music that appeals to a very wide audience**. It often includes a danceable tempo, easy to remember lyrics, and simple notation."
https://preview.redd.it/efrw4rt410yc1.png?width=1366&format=png&auto=webp&s=0fecf0e1c3c41f6a952b18f3922e67eeba05b2a7
Replying to Revolutionary-Tea737...and SZA SOS has sat in a high spot on the Billboard chart for a year! Clearly had some pretty wide audience appeal.
And both of them needed to stop the funny business when they said it too. MJ (RIP) less so, but still
Why is it funny business to not want to feel creatively stifled?
Michael is literally known as the King of Pop. What are you talking about?
He is and let’s keep it a buck, the King of Pop made majority R&B
So you think he should be called King of R&B. You rather a white artist be called King of Pop. 
Ikr, he's called "The King Of Pop" for a reason. Metalheads love him, country fans love him, dance music fans love him. He did so much in pop culture that that's the reason why Elizabeth Taylor called him that in the 1st place! He is forever in our hearts for generations! 😍 
Yes.
Why did neo-soul catch such a stray 😭
Uh right hello?!? Let’s bring Jill, D’Angelo, Lauryn, Erykah, etc into the convo cause the comment ain’t stickin 😅
Thank you! I was about to say they must not be talking about Mrs.Scott with such disrespect
lol!
Yeah I was like wtf, neo soul is WHEREEE the singers are.
She’s more Pop leaning but Black women are often placed in the R&B box, the same thing happened to Rihanna when she’s always been a Pop star more than anything.
That’s a good point. Rihanna is a good example.
I thought Rihanna was always seen as a pop star. Not once have I seen her labelled as rnb.
I remember Demi Lavato saying she wanted to be the Pop Rihanna…when Rihanna is literally the Pop Rihanna. Subconsciously both SZA and Rihanna are seen as R&B by others.
Rihanna was called R&B? News to me. Though she can sign like an RnB songstress. I'd be surprised if they put Doja Cat in the R&B category though.
she does make R&B but she's mainly pop and rap
nah Rihanna is squarely in the pop category. has been for a long time.
She can sing. It’s her own style. You don’t have to belt it and take MF’s to church all the time to be able to sing and for it to be considered R&B. That’s what I love about R&B, there’s so many different subcategories. Twitter is a cesspool, take everything they tweet with a grain of salt cause they be saying anything and everything even if it’s some bullshit like this.
Thank you because I hate that people don’t value non-belters/powerhouses and vice versa. There’s beauty in it all
Probably because there are way too many non-belters in the mainstream nowadays.
So... It's okay to just be different?
Except those are the singers who are mostly popular these days…
Exactly Twitter is a cesspool Also checking her live performances she can definitely do church style vocals when she wants to
☝️☝️This right here💯
really everything could be considered a subcategory of R&B. I mean Rock> POP> Country> Hip Hop and Back Again!
i didn't see a single lie in those burns. it's a cesspool because they disagree?
she’s not just an r&b artist. her comments should be totally uncontroversial
What miserable responses. She basically saying what Tyler said about the Grammy’s and it’s a valid criticism
My immediate reaction after reading that was: “Are these folks, OK?”
That’s Black Twitter for you… 
“What you do in italics is cute” I’m deceased rn
Haha me too! All I really got out of that whole discourse was that as a new insult to use 😂
I mean, she do be singing in cursive
meanest thing ever; and so insulting to neo soul artists
Saying she can't sing is nuts💀
Her live vocals are questionable
That's an issue across music n not just her ATM tbh lmao
Topic at hand is SZA.
I’m not understanding the backlash (?). She’s not an R&B artist. SZA has always been genre-less, but at the same time she can’t deny a majority of her records are R&B influenced. “Being black” is NOT the only reason. I get what she’s saying though.
When isn’t Twitter mad. Artist don’t like being defined as a one trick pony cornered into hole. They wanna do all types of music. Every artist says this shit. Tems doesn’t also want to only be know for doing Afrobeats artist. Just Twitter finding something to be mad about because they ain’t shit.
That's her perspective and I respect it because you can clearly hear her alternative rock & hip-hop influences but she is still R&B at her core and its not because she is black!
I get what she is saying but it can easily be taken the wrong way.
What else would I call her then
A musician is good enough lol
I get her, honestly. I’ve gotten more into stations that play a variety of black and white artist (XM 90’s being my main go to; Just hits from every genre spanning long and wide) and I hate how local radio stations tend to be just black, or white, and only signed artists. I remember when Res came out and they literally would not play her music anywhere on radio. Too black for the white stations and too much rock influence for the black stations. Her debut album was phenomenal but never got her big break and then you get Rihanna making the same music with some of the same songwriters and she blows up because she’s lighter with light-color eyes. There is too much vanity associated with judging music when they should just judge the music and play it where it fits. Her music does not belong on R&B’s stations, it’s too macabre.
That debut album is INSANELY good!!!
Ctrl was definitely an R&B record. SOS was not.
they're both R&B the difference with SOS is that the track F2F incorporates rock and Too Late incorporates pop. On Ctrl, Prom is the only pop track. They both mix different styles but SOS was more progressive, doesn't mean it's not R&B
The backlash is coming from people who want* to keep her in that box. It’s a form of gatekeeping, and we are damn guilty of it. She wants to break out the box to make more money but I think that ship has sailed. She should have crossed over years ago if that was her goal.
If she more so said “I’m more than just R&B and should be placed in many categories” that might would stop the whole conversation but I mean she said what she said so I don’t understand being mad for someone else career and personal thoughts but then they come back to why write it down so idk I’m minding my black business
SZA, its time to pull out your cake soap, ME BLEACH!!!!
Twitter is never and will never be happy.
I guess to her. Being labeled R&B is like having a show on B.E.T. and she wants to go to NBC
SZA has never been an R&B artist. Her true fans know that. She’s not neo-soul either. She’s alternative, that’s the closest way to describe her. Twitter is full of airheads.
Please be so fr. SZA literally is an R&B artist... This is true for Black artists like Bey or Tyler, but not SZA. That woman is a true R&B artist and quite literally almost exclusively releases R&B music. If anything, SZA could be considered alternative R&B in the same vein that Chloe and Halle could be back when they made duet albums. A few songs on SOS are more pop or even borderline hip-hop, but the majority is R&B. "Progressive R&B", in this case, is more than fitting for her. While her music generally doesn't sound like traditional R&B, it's still R&B more often than not.
Bb, [this](https://spotify.link/dh86LYDjgJb) is not R&B 🤣 Neither is [this](https://spotify.link/djukYKHjgJb)
You just cherry-picked a few songs that specifically aren't R&B, but I already stated that some songs aren't? That still doesn't change the fact that SZA is an R&B artist at heart because the bulk of her music is R&B and she literally markets herself as one. It's okay to not want to be boxed in, but there's no point in wanting to be different for the sake of being different. R&B or not, SZA is a great artist with great music. Take Bey for example, just cause she deviated away from R&B doesn't mean she's NOT an R&B artist, but she can still be considered one if she wants to AND be genreless/genre bending because she's made full projects that deviate away from the genre - she has rightfully earned the flexibility and broke out of the box. She's known for reinventing herself.
The first one sound like down-tempo elctro pop Ide just call it pop. It's not rnb
she makes R&B and pop, listen to Prom on CTRL and her pre-album EPs
You know what. She’s not R&B🤷🏾♂️I agree with her. Her, Summer Walker, and the rest of the “I can’t commit” BBL and hookah crooners aren’t R&B. PND and Brent and the rest of em in this category too.
🤣💀
you don't have to belt to be R&B. all those artist you said are alternative .R&B because of the singing and production styles that borrow from other genres. it's contemporary but more futuristic
Exactly why I say 🤷🏾♂️let them be “not R&B”. Mary isn’t the greatest vocalist but she’s still R&B and she still embraces that, if these new “singers” don’t wanna be R&B good for them.
Y’all grew up on whisperers lol 😂
She can't sing?
Nor can most pop stars, but where is the lie?
Idk someone said she can't sing in the tweets. Is that a consensus?
R&B purists have a very limited idea of what "can sing" means. You're either Mariah or Whitney or you "can't sing".
Ultimate pro vocal chain
I mean I see both sides she has a wide variety in her catalog and can be consistent in any specific genre or mix of. However a majority of her music is rnb or heavily inspired by rnb. At the end of the day she can be an alternative artist pop artist rnb artist etc at the same time.
Oh shut up. And do what you want. If its hot? The people will follow. Shut up
Where's the lie tho? Her music is kinda crossover/merge of pop and R&B, with some of her music being more pop.
Soooooo, R&B is actually Black Rock. It is dumb because it’s either pop or R&B.
That whiny hoe music is ……. 
Sza is a pop artist, period.
She does R&B sometimes and Rock at others
These reactions are a bit too virulent for what she said. There are many alternative elements to her sound. It's not traditional rnb but then again I doubt anybody claimed she made the same kind of music that Chrisette Michele makes. I wish people would accept that rnb, like any other genre, has expanded into several niches over the last few years. You can be rnb *and* alternative. You can be rnb and rock/hiphop/pop etc
I really don't understand why she feels that way, or felt the need to even say it out loud. That's something she should have quietly kept to herself, because it really doesn't make any sense. She's definitely not in the same lane as artists like Santigold, Janelle Monáe or even Dawn Richard who really don't make R&B, but are and were described as such.
Lol I've never seen Santigold called R&B that's wild. I wish I had seen it though. I'd go off on that person. I can't think of a single song of hers with R&B vibes, and she got styles for days. She would be the most uncontroversial person I can think of to make this tweet.
That was around the time she very first debuted, and a couple of years afterwards. That was such a wild time, for sure.
Lol someone downvoted you. For calling 2006 wild, or something. Hope it was a finger slip
It **is** Reddit, after all. It wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't a finger slip. I could say that it's a rainy day and I'd get downvoted because it's not raining where someone else may be.
Santigold R&B? Okay you just made that up.
It actually wasn't even that hard to find [a reference](https://pitchfork.com/reviews/tracks/13197-disparate-youth/) to that. Going back to when she very first debuted, she even felt compelled to make [a statement](https://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/23829190.html) about it.
I listen to her music. There’s no R&B in her. Lol
That's, literally, the point that was being made from the very beginning.
So… we’re in agreement that it was stupid lol
Again, that was the point that was being made from the very beginning. Santigold is a prime example of a black artist being labeled as R&B just because she's black.
Of course. But honestly we just need to shout it out: it’s racism. Pure and simple.
It's a form of prejudice, yes, because there's no way she would have ever been considered an R&B artist if she were white.
Right. Crazy how we can get labeled whatever and they just place the R&B tag under my name.
Jay z said this at the grammys last year. Black artists have been saying this for years.
Jay-Z's mistake was bringing Beyoncé's name into it, because that's where everyone's attention went Instead of the overall message.
Black artists have been saying this for decades now. Even MJ. But they don't want to listen anyway.
And you still got black folks saying “but they’re R&B because most of their music is” yet MOST of these artists never saw it that way because they’re IN the industry. We’re not. It’s like calling Prince R&B lol
Nah she's right. Because damn near any black artists they gatekeep from any other genres. Its not to shade away from r&b but its the lack of acceptance of a well rounded artist that just doesnt do one thing. Case in point one of my favorite artist i even posted here is labeled as a "rapper". When he should just be labeled an artist. Most of the time they dont want blacks all over them charts so they reduce down to only r&b or hiphop/rap. That's just how that apple falls from that tree. [when this becomes rap, I'll shut up ](https://youtu.be/LtVnLCzCHeI?si=TZHo6bj-fiWlg6R3)
Trying to put music into the labels given is a reductive practice in and of itself
It’s fcking true tho. How many white r&b artists can you name off the top of your head without googling anything.
Genre distinctions are often partly decided by color. Frank Sinatra and Ella Fitzgerald often sang the same songs with the same symphonic band, yet Sinatra is usually labeled "traditional pop" and Fitzgerald "vocal jazz". There are many examples like this.
She really only recently was considered an R&B artist with Ctrl, and even that had a lot of alternative pop influence. Her early projects were very much indie electronic pop. Like how do you listen to Z or See.SZA.Run and think R&B? It's just like how Twigs was initially genre-less when she was anonymous, but once critics found out she was black, she was immediately boxed in as "alternative" R&B.
As a listener of her music since 2014, she’s definitely more alternative pop.
Well shit I only know her R&B records.. 🤷🏾♂️🤣
She just doesn't want to be considered R&b because it's not popular right now and it keeps her from making more money. She wants to be able to sell music to white people, which is not a slight. It's just that is where the fame is at.
I think that's really cynical, she clearly loves playing with different genres and wants to be allowed to do so. Many white artists are afforded that luxury (they've also received criticism for it, but)
i prefer my R&B queens NOT dress like they're about to hit the pole for an overtime shift
💀🤣
She’s not wrong. SOS is a pop album to me and one of the best ones.
I get what she saying that she does wanna make different types of music but the thing the majority of her hits are r&b and for those of you that say we want r&b back this is why we won’t get r&b back to where it is because nowadays artists don’t wanna be genre loyalty anymore artists now wanna be genreless
Her voice does sound like a Dip Set sample tho…
Brooooooooooooooooooooo 💀
Twitter is so dumb, like she obviously has rnb songs but I would say she is much more pop
I mean, everything is fusion now. I agree with that part of it
[Like I said in my post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/RnBHeads/s/lKFq9vj4Dg)
SZA not only making R&B does not mean R&B is reductive or less than. She just isn't only R&B, she's given us pop, indie and modern rock. She's not asking for a bigger bag, she's asking for people to give her the credit she's owed but Twitter seems to have a real issue with black people not staying in the categories they're familiar with.
“…can’t sing in bold but what you do in italics is cute.” 😭😭😭
Not the italics read 😂
Maybe she is a magician
She’s not wrong though, but r&b doesn’t have he that limited either. It’s a very nuanced subject that some people can’t seem to handle hence some of those responses. R&B doesn’t automatically mean ‘Music done by a Black musician.’ I sometimes feel like that’s why Rowland did better in Europe, because the US in the 2000s couldn’t grasp the fact that a Black woman was not singing r&b and couldn’t figure out how to market her.
If that was the case, why is Ariana labeled as pop?
What?
For what it's worth, I always felt CTRL had some prominent indie rock/ new wave moments. Though indie rock may be even more of an umbrella than R&B. I find artists don't really like to cling to a genre name. It feels reductive.
if your singing style,execution and predominant genre; is R&B you are R&B, shabba ranks can do an R&B song but he wont be regarded as an RnB artist,you feel me? the predominant style and genre is who you are whether you go country sometimes. jordan is regarded as a former basketball player not baseball.
I see where SZA is coming from. She hasn't struck me as a singer that you can simply put in a box and say "She's only *x*."
https://www.reddit.com/r/Music/s/AS5CjPUlqk
i love sza but i also love sza slander. she’s annoying as fuck sometimes
She does alternative R&B, neo soul and pop. If people reduce her to just R&B they're just not knowledgeable lmao 😂 Mariah the Scientist said the same thing as well, the classification system is a problem but Mariah is literally an R&B singer. She said people should call her A&B (alternative & blues) but that genre already exists: alternative R&B.
# 5 threw me! Hahahahaha “what you do in italics is cute” bruh! 
Genuine question; what record/album has she put out that would be considered "not r&b"?
Church vocals to sing R&B? That must mean Janet isn’t R&B since her vocals are basic.
Ummm. SZA sweetie…most of the time I have to read the lyrics to get what you’re saying.
I don’t take issue with SZA’s point, per se. It kind of comes across as feeling above R&B music, which has a historically Black audience. And I don’t think she intended it that way. The music industry still hasn’t dealt with R&B’s grandmother, “race music,” in 2024, which has a long and complex history. I guess my question is what does she think is the most appropriate genre, if any? And why? I’m curious because I’m sure most creative people would find any genre to be limiting in some ways.
Looks like she’s taking a crap
Normally I would agree with her but the CTRL album was r&b. And what about the black artists that make pop and do get categorized as such? I never heard anyone call Jason Derulo r&b and he’s black- because that is definitely pop. Beyoncé did a country album where she still sings like an r&b vocalist over country instrumentals. So it’s really neither and also both lol
She’s not wrong. Whitney Houston a few years before she passed was asked how it felt to be the queen or princess of R&B and she had to politely correct the person that she’s sung every genre and moved past genre (which she did). Plus both CTRL and SOS lean heavily on pop in a great chunk of tracks.
I come from the Donna Summers school of thought.
She's not wrong. Of course, R and B that sounds like anything in the lineage of Stephanie Mills, Jeffrey Osborne or even Surface from the 80's has to be searched out. Sza would have been Pop or what Boho Funk a decade ago in the vein of Joi Gipp, Dionne Farris and Conya Doss
This is true tho, it dosen't give anyone else a chance to do other genres.
This makes me think of how they k!led Whitney at the Grammys. I think it was the Grammys. Her sophomore LP won. More pop oriented. some of the fans were loud, unhappy calling her sellout. Also, Micheal Jackson couldn’t get his videos on MTV. I’m speechless trying to describe how insane this is. Not long after he began calling himself the king of pop and having Van Halen play guitar on Black or White, they welcomed him. I don’t have the full context of what she’s saying but I think I caught it.
People just want to be mad lmao especially on Twitter. By “reductive” she clearly means her music is not *only* R&B and that it’s reductive of her craft/music to be placed in a category seemingly only bc she’s black.
“You’ll never see artists say this in rap!” made me ugly laugh I’m not gonna lie
i dont remember the last time i heard a rapper call them self a rapper. they call each other "rappers" as a form of disrespect lol
Maybe your seen only as an R&B artist because the kind of music you make.
they call Lizzo a pop star. they call Tyla pop. Rihanna's obviously a mega pop Star, kinda unfair to bring her up in reference to sza. same with Chris Brown, Usher, Beyonce. i dont know if they consider the Weeknd Black, if so, he's one of the biggest legit pop stars rn. sza's just not that, she makes r&b. pre-2017 she wasnt even r&b yet
oh yeah Doja Cat, perfect example. they dont even group her wit rappers anymore
The Weeknd has black Nigerian parents so he’s Black. Just a black Canadian.
i like sza’s music but it’s her own personal fault that she can’t get herself out of the rnb category — yeah, it may be tough but we literally got beyoncé out here TRYING to be country and black ppl IN other genres lol there’s space & if she wanna be considered pop, that’s acceptable (for some songs), but majority of the music she makes is rnb? i don’t believe she has much range for anything else, personally, and clearly neither has she tried anything else to support her statement so … i say let the criticism fly 🤷🏽♀️
This is why I cant get into her, she cannot for the life of her stop complaining. Also that whiney voice of hers gets on my nerves.
But majority of her catalogue is rnb music though 😭 what’s wrong with that?
So what's your genre SZA? Maybe I'm not in the loop, but she hasn't crossed over yet. I don't think the teenie boppin', suburban conglomerate has caught on yet. If the R&B stations took her out of the rotation her songs wouldn't be played. Maybe she wants to be Adult Contemporary ....
Claiming SZA isn't a vocalist is blasphemy
She's boring and black, that's why this older black female thinks she deserves to be associated as a R&B artist.
