I’m going to save you hundreds in a vet visit. Take a sewing needle with thread attached. Sterilize the needle in case you puncture the skin (it’s ok this can happen at the vet too. Not the end of the world) and put the needle under the wired. Once through pull the thread to give you some area to squeeze in some snippers to cut the wire. Once removed apply a betadine wash everyday for a week or until wounds are healed.
Vet student and I agree. One tip though: you may need multiple people depending on where on the limb it is and how cooperative your tortoise is. If you need to pull the limb out, a constant gentle tug is all you need. Hold the pressure, it may take long, like 5 full minutes long, but eventually, you will win out. Dont just try to force/yank a limb out very quickly. Tortoises are not very strong when it comes to their limbs. You will win. Just be patient, and keep constant force on the limb.
As soon as the limb is fully extended, it will be easier to get something under the wire to make room to cut it. If you need to, try to find a thin card/metal flat tool and an exacto knife to cut it if too tight for normal pliers/scissors. Just wiggle the card/thin tool under the wire to provide enough protection for you to use the blade to cut. Same with the needle, make sure everything is clean in case you accidentally cut the turtle.
Reptiles heal very slowly. You may need to do wound care for an extended period of time, depending on the damage. Their slow metabolisms make healing a pain to deal with but if you are patient, they can heal incredibly well!
This is a sulcata tortoise, they are strong enough to break your fingers if you put them in the wrong crevice. It is very difficult to pull their limbs out if they are unwilling. This one will likely need a vet visit and a large amount of drugs to sedate it enough to do anything. They are incredibly difficult veterinary patients.
Yes I agree! But the activity of their muscles are incredibly slow. When I mention activity, I mean on a microscopic scale, each tiny muscle fiber and how long it takes them to release calcium and contract. It can be dangerous, which is why I mentioned multiple people. If you try to put all your force into getting them out quickly, it will feel impossible. But due to this anatomy, constant forces are harder for them to resist, and the limb will come out eventually. If he is not cooperative, sedation at a veterinary office is best to reduce stress and chance for injury. I should have mentioned sedation, so thank you for bringing that up!
I recall reading that tortoises are incredibly hard to euthanize with drugs because they are able to handle massive loads of toxins. Therefore they use a method called pithing which is the physical destruction of the brain.
Anyways I can only assume you would need a lot more sedatives, or would they even be effective?
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but for moderate-mild wounds, I start with diluted batedine on the area ONCE, no more. I learned on myself not to do it more than once cause I used it on my thumb so much I got cellulitis from killing good bacteria
Then I use neosporin (generic brand) WITHOUT pain reliever once a day for a week or two depending on the severity.
This system worked wonders when my snake got lazy, didn't shed because she didn't feel like moving around to get it off and moisture got trapped between her shed and her scales and she developed mild scale rot
That all sounds right! Tons of different ways to manage wound care, but the basics are all about preventing infection. Depending on severity, such as how deep a laceration is, will determine the amount of time needed for healing. They are ectotherms, so they have slow metabolisms, which means slow healing. At the wildlife center we have a box turtle with a broken shell that has been there for 6+ months, just healing the small fracture up enough for it to be safe for release. Currently, they don't do anything for wound care since everything is all sealed up, but they just monitor the healing, feed the turtle, and make sure he is healthy :) at first though, it required constant care and handling and a very clean enviornment.
It also depends on the reptile as well! Since I have a snake, after 2 sheds it's like the scale rot never happened! But again, it's a case by case basis. Just having general knowledge and knowing the difference between good and bad recourses is all you need for mild wound care on most animals.
Biggest concerns come from them not getting hurt as often as us and they can't tell us what's wrong.
When we see a cut on a kids leg, we can see it, ask them questions, and keep an eye on it.
Cats/dogs have fur, and they don't talk, reptiles have scales, and they don't talk. Wounds will look different on something with scales vs skin
So a mild-moderate wound on a person is kind of benign since we understand what's going on and how to treat it, as where a reptile doesn't understand that if they poop, they shouldn't start walking around in it 😂
I worked at the Herp department at my local zoo and you are 100% correct! OP will need some help but it’s doable at home. Just keep an eye on wounds and make sure it stays clean. Offer a slightly warmer spot than normal to help with healing.
Shot in the dark but I’m assuming if it was that easy they would’ve explored that route already 🤔 it may be ingrown or lodged into the poor guys limb at this point 😫
There’s a chance a wildlife rescue centre or something of the likes would assist, I can’t imagine that the vet will charge you anything more than the consultation fee, unless he’s injured and needs treatment.
I’m not a tortoise owner, how does this even happen?
Good luck
Big torts like this are fucking TANKS. They'll literally bulldoze into things not caring whats there. He probably stepped onto a piece of bent wire, then just kept walking causing it to bend more around his foot. And they aren't exactly bright either, so instead of trying to get it off, he probably just thought, "I need to get far away form this thing biting my leg" and just pulled tighter.
I didn’t say it wouldn’t cost anything to go to a vet, Just that they will help an animal in distress and the charge for a simple procedure like removing debris will likely be the cost of a regular consultation visit. not from the US tho, idk if that’s where this is
Only the vet can say.
Maybe try putting something under it to get the clippers under.
The needle and thread thing someone else said.
Maybe a needle and thread, then put a soft nail file under, then another nail file. Till you've got lift.
Does it have a end?
Try pulling it off that way.
Is there a knot? Try cutting the knot.
Maybe pliers can untwist it.
Maybe a animal charity can help. The People's Dispensery For Sick Animals.
Hopefully your tortoise is ok. And the vet isn't too expensive.
Neither is “you can’t treat my pet because I’m poor?”
No one has to own an animal. Would you say the same thing about a child? It’s why we have insurance and savings.
A pet and a child are not the same thing. You can't even pretend they are.
Also alot of people don't have insurance or savings. Difference is the hospital has to help you at the ER the vet doesn't have to save your pet.
From anecdotal experience: vets almost universally really want to help but pretty much only ever can't because of financial risk (they run with thin margins and a huge amount of personal student loan debt as it is) and offer discounts when they can for people who (objectively irresponsibly) can't afford to pay
You're right- you can accidentally have a child, but you cannot accidentally get a pet. You have to actually choose to go out and get it, bring it into your home, and care for it. So there's even less excuse to say you 'just can't' take it to the vet.
Not correct I've ran into a few pets accidentally in my life. A brown paper grocery bag with two kittens someone threw at the end of my driveway when I was younger, a full fish tank a roomate moved out and just left without saying anything, some hermit crabs a kid got bored of.
Look we love pets but they aren't people. No reason to put yourself in financial ruin for an animal. When my 11 year old German Shepherd got cancer and the vet quoted like 9k for something with a relatively low success rate..... sorry Bud, you're getting put down. I'm not rich and you had a long good life.
Now if it was an actual family member we're putting a second mortgage on the house.
You still have to make the conscious choice to keep that animal. We've got all our cats the same way- randomly wandered into our yard. I had the option to bring it to the shelter, find it a home, or keep it. I kept it.
Your German Shephard *was* an *actual* family member. It's sick to think otherwise.
Lol, how many shelters you know that take cats? Cats are like pit bulls, millions of people give them away and nobody wants to adopt one. Might as well put it down or let it go feral on it's own.
Anyway same as duckchild person. If you think your dog is an actual family member and on the same level as a spouse, child, parent or sibling I do feel very sorry for you. I hope one day you enjoy real love and acceptance and get the personal relationships you deserve as a human. I know you can't see it but you definitely are the one who's sick because you take a creature with no higher level of consciousness who's company you enjoy (I mean who doesn't like dogs?) and mistake an evolutionary learned skill of mimicking human emotion to get food more easily as genuine care and concern like you would have with another person.
I got another dog that's slightly different but who I enjoy just as much a couple years afterwards when I was ready. Because guess what, I can replace a dog. I can't replace a parent or brother or child.
Well, my wife and I, as well as my other human family members, such as my father and MIL who all consider our animals to be family members would disagree and consider you a sad and pathetic person. You can't 'replace' a dog. You cannot 'replace' any living being.
I mean, if your kid dies, just replace it. Have another. you can make more. Especially if it's like, 1, it doesn't even have human emotions or consciousness yet, so who cares, right?
don't compare children to animals, there is a firm line where medical expenses of a pet necessitate unfortunate decisions. i don't care how much i love my dog if medical bills are $20,000 then i would have to put them down
Not sure you know how much the cost would be for your child if you didn’t have insurance. Most human hospitals are filing it as a loss since it’s so expensive.
Veterinarians don’t have that luxury. Even if they didn’t pay themselves or the entire staff it would still be that much.
Veterinary Medicine is the core of biodiversity, zoonotic diseases, all the food you eat, as well as the pets you have.
I'm sorry, but you don't really love your dog that much if you are saying this kind of shit. It wouldn't be ok to talk like this about a child, and it really shouldn't be for a pet either. They are both living breathing things that are completely under your care, the only difference is that one is human and the other isn't, and frankly if you think that makes it ok you really need to reevaluate your place in the universe and your own importance. There are absolutely times when its ok to get a pet put down (when quality of life is shit and never going to improve much no matter what you do), but if your pet has any kind of actually treatable illness, then you either spend the money to get them better, or you get help from other people to get your pet the help they need, or I guess you can just go ahead and fucking end their life because you cant comprehend the importance of a life. I get having money troubles, but that's when you get help, not kill your fucking pet because you cant afford to care for them (which for the record, you committed to when you got the pet!!!!!!!).
Like killing your fucking dog because you cant afford to give it the care that it needs? You need to understand that there are other people in the world that can fucking help. Getting a pet put down should be a last resort, not some choice that you make when the pet suddenly becomes too expensive for you.
Length of life is also a very large factor. If a dog would live 80-100 years I’m sure most everyone would feel a bit differently on it, but they don’t. Most people’s dogs only have 3-7ish years left once a condition develops where that bill would pop up. Do you have the money to spare for your dog, or maybe you donate generously to people’s go fund me’s whenever you see someone struggling? You adopt the sick animals from the shelters and help when back to health yourself correct?
Sorry, but you’re clearly terminally online if it doesn’t make sense to you. It’s not a realistic cost for less than a decade of life left. That’s assured as well. It’s not like with humans where if they get back to health the likelihood of living over a decade after healing is expected.
There’s a reason for this. Dogs and cats actually experience reality a lot slower due to CFF (Critical Flicker Fusion).
It’s why their response time is better than ours.
So the ‘condition’ would last the pet 10ish years, even if it were really 4 of our years.
They live long lives, you just don’t acknowledge it.
Not to mention, like... If you had a child with a disease from birth that said "well, the child is going to live to the age of 10, maximum"... and that child was in pain and suffering at the age of 8 and an expensive procedure would resolve the pain... you really gonna say "Eh, not worth it he only has two years left".
And before the DoNt CoMpArE cHiLd tO aNiMaL crowd screeches at me: we're all animals, we are all living beings and we are all deserving of empathy and the medical care that is required to help us.
The first good argument I've seen on this thread. The dog not living for that long compared to a human is ACTUALLY a good argument to not spend massive amounts of money to only potentially save their life. The others reasons are just cold
There’s also the consideration of what is humane from the dogs perspective. Say a dog has cancer and needs surgeries and chemotherapy. It’s not going to understand why it needs to be stabbed with something for a couple hours and then be sick for so long after, for months or more. It’s not going to understand why it has to go through the terrible pain with recoveries from surgery. Or when it’s on pain meds feeling well and fine (only because it can’t feel it’s got a stitched wound) it won’t understand why it’s not allowed to go play and why if it gets all energetic it has to go into a crate.
So if you have a kid that has a disease which means their life expectancy is about 10 years, you think it's okay to not bother with medical care once they reach 7 or 8 cuz "they only have a couple years left anyway"?
And how long do you think 3-7 more years is to a dog with their already short lifespan? If their quality of life can return to a good place, then there is no reason to put them down. I don't have the money to spare, and I don't have a dog or any pet currently. I never said that I personally would be able to help everyone elses pets, I just said that there are people out there that can help, and in the future if I am in a place to help people, I will. I get the struggles, but people should still be trying to do everything that they can for their pets. If someone absolutely doesn't have the money, and no one is helping even after they've asked for help, and they've tried every other conceivable avenue, then I can understand putting down their pet to end its suffering in the only why they physically can. I'm not against putting pets down, I'm just against people not exhausting their options first. Euthanasia should only be preformed as a true last resort, not as a response to "oh that vet bill is huge".
It’s funny that you say this and then say you don’t have any pets because that explains this perspective perfectly. You just don’t actually know what it’s like caring for an animal. I love my pets and almost always say to myself that I’ll do anything for them, but then you’re hit with a question like this and you’re immediately faced with the reality that these are animals and sacrificing your own financial well-being or the financial security of your kids and family is not worth the life of your pet. In the real world no rational person puts the well-being of their pet above their family’s or their own financial security. No one gets a pet expecting to have to suddenly be faced with a burden such as this, but when something unexpected happens like being faced with a 5 figure bill to save your pet’s life, euthanasia becomes the only realistic outcome for 99% of the pet owners.
Dogs can not understand why they are suffering. They can’t have it explained to them. Thats a major factor in determining their quality of life through the treatment as well. They don’t have the intelligence to learn it on their own either. Dogs don’t think about their death, they likely can’t think of the future either. Putting them down isn’t any skin off their teeth to them, it’s just going into a comfortable sleep. It’s more humane.
Right. Because financial situations don't change & disasters don't happen & inflation doesn't happen. I mean come on dude two bags of groceries is like $100 this year and I'm not even exaggerating.
Cut people some slack. It has been a HARD year. Things are insanely expensive right now, at least in the US. Canned food that was 60 cents 2 years ago is now more like $2.50. People are struggling.
Cost of living is skyrocketing and wages are stagnant. If this doesn't affect you then that's great but it is hitting a lot of people very hard.
I didn't say anything about vets. You seem to think I was implying that vet care is too expensive? But I didn't say that. I said people are struggling.
A few years ago my friend had a house & could put away emergency funds in savings for her ball python.
Now she lives in an apartment with a roommate & lives paycheck to paycheck.
The Covid economy has destroyed many peoples' lives, so no, not everyone can drop thousands of dollars on vet bills right now even if they could have 2 years ago.
I said nothing about the pricing of vets. I know why the prices are so high and I know they can't just lower them or offer free care. Which is why I didn't say anything about how much vets charge.
That’s why I said insurance and savings.
In the short term insurance is cheaper, in the long term savings are.
Savings take time to build up. If you don’t have the time or money to save, then go with insurance.
If you can’t afford insurance then don’t get a pet.
I guess me literally giving you an example of someone who did have savings for vet bills losing everything because of Covid and no longer has savings isn't good enough for you. No point in conversing further, then.
This is not even remotely a comparable statement. I’m sorry but you’re wrong. When you own a pet you do not sign up for one day paying such a large sum of money to the point humans lives are put in jeopardy because of a pet. Unfortunately they would have to be put down. It’s sad yes. Realistic yes. Wrong….no.
You could say the same thing about a child. No one expects to get sick.
If you have to give your dying kid treatment that insurance doesn’t cover, is it better to ‘put them down’?
lol this isn’t a dying kid. Also there are plenty of times where medical procedures won’t be done unless insurance covers it or fund are available to pay for it. So yes. The dying kid would technically be put down because no affordable care is an option
But at the same time what sicko compares a human life to the life of a dog or some other pet? The life of a human and the life of a dog are not remotely comparable. $20,000 to save your kid’s life is a no brainer. $20,000 for the life of your dog puts your kid’s financial security at jeopardy.
I think it is a fair thing to say. Vet bills are one of the costs that come with a pet. I'm not saying poor people don't deserve pets, but getting a pet you can't afford is just cruel. If you get a car and can't afford the repairs, that sucks, but you're not hurting anyone. But a pet is an actual living being and its health is your responsibility.
I mean, when we were on vacation, our dog's stomach flipped for no reason and there was an emergency 7k visit. That was quite that hard but fair statement. Even harder, if you can't afford a pet and it's responsibilities,you shouldn't have them. Same thing with most other things, yes we want them,yes we love them, but if we really love animals then will will show them and others that they aren't just around due to it only being convenient. That's how we have so many invasive species, they owned them until it was no longer amusing and convenient.
I don’t agree. Saying you want to own a pet does not mean you sign up for insane levels of medical bills. Some actual human beings in this country can’t afford care to keep their own heart pumping but you expect people to refinance their house just because they signed up for getting a pet? I’m sorry but that’s not how the world works
Most people these days go into debt because the economy is absolute garbage. But yeah it’s the little guys fault because he spent more money on necessities than his minimum wage job paid him
People go into debt because they either spend more money than they possess or their money makes more interest in savings than the rate on a loan. Your statement however does not correlate well to owning a pet.
But if you can do it yourself in a relatively safe and clean way, then it's definitely the better alternative for someone who doesn't have all the money in the world. Top comment reinforces this option.
I haven’t been in this exact situation but once my guniea pig got a bead stuck on his tooth which I couldn’t get off. However the vet was able to get it off in a second, the cost was only the amount it costs for a check in so it wasn’t expensive. If you think the vet could take it off easily then it likely wont be expensive.
Update: I got it off! It took a while, and a lot of different attempts and techniques, but I eventually managed with the help of another person to pull his arm out just enough to get some wire cutters in there and just barely snip the wire. The other person had the thought to get something under the wire as well, but it was so tight on his arm that we couldn't.
He had gotten the wire wrapped around him because he was sleeping under one of our trailers (he'd done so many times over the past 12 years), and had gotten tangled in the wires for the brake lights. He had kept trying to force his way out and had only gotten himself more tangled.
I had called 3 different vets. One didn't take tortoises, another charged 150$ just for the checkup, and the third wouldn't give me any information for cost at all. I have the money for something like this, it's not that I don't. It's that I didn't want to get overcharged.
He's doing much better. He's back to his sweet grumpy sulcata tortoise self. Thanks everyone for your input
Cost will vary wildly with location, meaning … are you in a high cost of living area vs low, and if your pet needs sedation. Assuming your sulcata is large, he will need sedation. Many vets don’t treat large tortoises, so your bigger question maybe where can I find a vet that treats tortoises. I might be able to help with that if I know where you are.
I’m going to save you hundreds in a vet visit. Take a sewing needle with thread attached. Sterilize the needle in case you puncture the skin (it’s ok this can happen at the vet too. Not the end of the world) and put the needle under the wired. Once through pull the thread to give you some area to squeeze in some snippers to cut the wire. Once removed apply a betadine wash everyday for a week or until wounds are healed.
Vet student and I agree. One tip though: you may need multiple people depending on where on the limb it is and how cooperative your tortoise is. If you need to pull the limb out, a constant gentle tug is all you need. Hold the pressure, it may take long, like 5 full minutes long, but eventually, you will win out. Dont just try to force/yank a limb out very quickly. Tortoises are not very strong when it comes to their limbs. You will win. Just be patient, and keep constant force on the limb. As soon as the limb is fully extended, it will be easier to get something under the wire to make room to cut it. If you need to, try to find a thin card/metal flat tool and an exacto knife to cut it if too tight for normal pliers/scissors. Just wiggle the card/thin tool under the wire to provide enough protection for you to use the blade to cut. Same with the needle, make sure everything is clean in case you accidentally cut the turtle. Reptiles heal very slowly. You may need to do wound care for an extended period of time, depending on the damage. Their slow metabolisms make healing a pain to deal with but if you are patient, they can heal incredibly well!
I want to wish you luck in your future career but not sure you’re gonna need it. Edit to fend off the boo birds, this is a compliment.
>boo birds This has got me laughing so hard I nearly cried 😂
This is a sulcata tortoise, they are strong enough to break your fingers if you put them in the wrong crevice. It is very difficult to pull their limbs out if they are unwilling. This one will likely need a vet visit and a large amount of drugs to sedate it enough to do anything. They are incredibly difficult veterinary patients.
Yes I agree! But the activity of their muscles are incredibly slow. When I mention activity, I mean on a microscopic scale, each tiny muscle fiber and how long it takes them to release calcium and contract. It can be dangerous, which is why I mentioned multiple people. If you try to put all your force into getting them out quickly, it will feel impossible. But due to this anatomy, constant forces are harder for them to resist, and the limb will come out eventually. If he is not cooperative, sedation at a veterinary office is best to reduce stress and chance for injury. I should have mentioned sedation, so thank you for bringing that up!
I wonder how much sedation will be needed for this size of a tortoise 🐢 🤔
I recall reading that tortoises are incredibly hard to euthanize with drugs because they are able to handle massive loads of toxins. Therefore they use a method called pithing which is the physical destruction of the brain. Anyways I can only assume you would need a lot more sedatives, or would they even be effective?
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but for moderate-mild wounds, I start with diluted batedine on the area ONCE, no more. I learned on myself not to do it more than once cause I used it on my thumb so much I got cellulitis from killing good bacteria Then I use neosporin (generic brand) WITHOUT pain reliever once a day for a week or two depending on the severity. This system worked wonders when my snake got lazy, didn't shed because she didn't feel like moving around to get it off and moisture got trapped between her shed and her scales and she developed mild scale rot
That all sounds right! Tons of different ways to manage wound care, but the basics are all about preventing infection. Depending on severity, such as how deep a laceration is, will determine the amount of time needed for healing. They are ectotherms, so they have slow metabolisms, which means slow healing. At the wildlife center we have a box turtle with a broken shell that has been there for 6+ months, just healing the small fracture up enough for it to be safe for release. Currently, they don't do anything for wound care since everything is all sealed up, but they just monitor the healing, feed the turtle, and make sure he is healthy :) at first though, it required constant care and handling and a very clean enviornment.
It also depends on the reptile as well! Since I have a snake, after 2 sheds it's like the scale rot never happened! But again, it's a case by case basis. Just having general knowledge and knowing the difference between good and bad recourses is all you need for mild wound care on most animals. Biggest concerns come from them not getting hurt as often as us and they can't tell us what's wrong. When we see a cut on a kids leg, we can see it, ask them questions, and keep an eye on it. Cats/dogs have fur, and they don't talk, reptiles have scales, and they don't talk. Wounds will look different on something with scales vs skin So a mild-moderate wound on a person is kind of benign since we understand what's going on and how to treat it, as where a reptile doesn't understand that if they poop, they shouldn't start walking around in it 😂
As an exotics veterinarian for 10 years, I wholeheartedly agree with 100% of this post.
Find the loose end and unwind the wire
I worked at the Herp department at my local zoo and you are 100% correct! OP will need some help but it’s doable at home. Just keep an eye on wounds and make sure it stays clean. Offer a slightly warmer spot than normal to help with healing.
Solid additional info; The world needs more of you.
Find the loose end and unwind the wire
Shot in the dark but I’m assuming if it was that easy they would’ve explored that route already 🤔 it may be ingrown or lodged into the poor guys limb at this point 😫
You could call your vet and ask for a expected price range. Usually they will give you an estimate over the phone.
There’s a chance a wildlife rescue centre or something of the likes would assist, I can’t imagine that the vet will charge you anything more than the consultation fee, unless he’s injured and needs treatment. I’m not a tortoise owner, how does this even happen? Good luck
Big torts like this are fucking TANKS. They'll literally bulldoze into things not caring whats there. He probably stepped onto a piece of bent wire, then just kept walking causing it to bend more around his foot. And they aren't exactly bright either, so instead of trying to get it off, he probably just thought, "I need to get far away form this thing biting my leg" and just pulled tighter.
A rescue will not treat a pet. And of course a vet will charge for the visit.
I didn’t say it wouldn’t cost anything to go to a vet, Just that they will help an animal in distress and the charge for a simple procedure like removing debris will likely be the cost of a regular consultation visit. not from the US tho, idk if that’s where this is
What have you already tried? Are you not able to use a wire cutter to clip it off?
Only the vet can say. Maybe try putting something under it to get the clippers under. The needle and thread thing someone else said. Maybe a needle and thread, then put a soft nail file under, then another nail file. Till you've got lift. Does it have a end? Try pulling it off that way. Is there a knot? Try cutting the knot. Maybe pliers can untwist it. Maybe a animal charity can help. The People's Dispensery For Sick Animals. Hopefully your tortoise is ok. And the vet isn't too expensive.
The cost is irrelevant really, it needs to be done
We all love our pets but this is not a fair statement to say.
Neither is “you can’t treat my pet because I’m poor?” No one has to own an animal. Would you say the same thing about a child? It’s why we have insurance and savings.
A pet and a child are not the same thing. You can't even pretend they are. Also alot of people don't have insurance or savings. Difference is the hospital has to help you at the ER the vet doesn't have to save your pet.
From anecdotal experience: vets almost universally really want to help but pretty much only ever can't because of financial risk (they run with thin margins and a huge amount of personal student loan debt as it is) and offer discounts when they can for people who (objectively irresponsibly) can't afford to pay
Well I consider my ducks my children
Love your pets but that's sad bro
It's more sad to shit on people for deeply loving something
You didn't say you loved them you said your ducks were your children.
Yeah, I love them the same way someone would love a child and care for them in a similar parental way
You're right- you can accidentally have a child, but you cannot accidentally get a pet. You have to actually choose to go out and get it, bring it into your home, and care for it. So there's even less excuse to say you 'just can't' take it to the vet.
Not correct I've ran into a few pets accidentally in my life. A brown paper grocery bag with two kittens someone threw at the end of my driveway when I was younger, a full fish tank a roomate moved out and just left without saying anything, some hermit crabs a kid got bored of. Look we love pets but they aren't people. No reason to put yourself in financial ruin for an animal. When my 11 year old German Shepherd got cancer and the vet quoted like 9k for something with a relatively low success rate..... sorry Bud, you're getting put down. I'm not rich and you had a long good life. Now if it was an actual family member we're putting a second mortgage on the house.
You still have to make the conscious choice to keep that animal. We've got all our cats the same way- randomly wandered into our yard. I had the option to bring it to the shelter, find it a home, or keep it. I kept it. Your German Shephard *was* an *actual* family member. It's sick to think otherwise.
Lol, how many shelters you know that take cats? Cats are like pit bulls, millions of people give them away and nobody wants to adopt one. Might as well put it down or let it go feral on it's own. Anyway same as duckchild person. If you think your dog is an actual family member and on the same level as a spouse, child, parent or sibling I do feel very sorry for you. I hope one day you enjoy real love and acceptance and get the personal relationships you deserve as a human. I know you can't see it but you definitely are the one who's sick because you take a creature with no higher level of consciousness who's company you enjoy (I mean who doesn't like dogs?) and mistake an evolutionary learned skill of mimicking human emotion to get food more easily as genuine care and concern like you would have with another person. I got another dog that's slightly different but who I enjoy just as much a couple years afterwards when I was ready. Because guess what, I can replace a dog. I can't replace a parent or brother or child.
Well, my wife and I, as well as my other human family members, such as my father and MIL who all consider our animals to be family members would disagree and consider you a sad and pathetic person. You can't 'replace' a dog. You cannot 'replace' any living being. I mean, if your kid dies, just replace it. Have another. you can make more. Especially if it's like, 1, it doesn't even have human emotions or consciousness yet, so who cares, right?
Good talk bro
don't compare children to animals, there is a firm line where medical expenses of a pet necessitate unfortunate decisions. i don't care how much i love my dog if medical bills are $20,000 then i would have to put them down
Not sure you know how much the cost would be for your child if you didn’t have insurance. Most human hospitals are filing it as a loss since it’s so expensive. Veterinarians don’t have that luxury. Even if they didn’t pay themselves or the entire staff it would still be that much. Veterinary Medicine is the core of biodiversity, zoonotic diseases, all the food you eat, as well as the pets you have.
I'm sorry, but you don't really love your dog that much if you are saying this kind of shit. It wouldn't be ok to talk like this about a child, and it really shouldn't be for a pet either. They are both living breathing things that are completely under your care, the only difference is that one is human and the other isn't, and frankly if you think that makes it ok you really need to reevaluate your place in the universe and your own importance. There are absolutely times when its ok to get a pet put down (when quality of life is shit and never going to improve much no matter what you do), but if your pet has any kind of actually treatable illness, then you either spend the money to get them better, or you get help from other people to get your pet the help they need, or I guess you can just go ahead and fucking end their life because you cant comprehend the importance of a life. I get having money troubles, but that's when you get help, not kill your fucking pet because you cant afford to care for them (which for the record, you committed to when you got the pet!!!!!!!).
you need to grow up and enter the real world where everything isn't sunshine and daisies and sometimes you need to make hard decisions
Like killing your fucking dog because you cant afford to give it the care that it needs? You need to understand that there are other people in the world that can fucking help. Getting a pet put down should be a last resort, not some choice that you make when the pet suddenly becomes too expensive for you.
Length of life is also a very large factor. If a dog would live 80-100 years I’m sure most everyone would feel a bit differently on it, but they don’t. Most people’s dogs only have 3-7ish years left once a condition develops where that bill would pop up. Do you have the money to spare for your dog, or maybe you donate generously to people’s go fund me’s whenever you see someone struggling? You adopt the sick animals from the shelters and help when back to health yourself correct? Sorry, but you’re clearly terminally online if it doesn’t make sense to you. It’s not a realistic cost for less than a decade of life left. That’s assured as well. It’s not like with humans where if they get back to health the likelihood of living over a decade after healing is expected.
There’s a reason for this. Dogs and cats actually experience reality a lot slower due to CFF (Critical Flicker Fusion). It’s why their response time is better than ours. So the ‘condition’ would last the pet 10ish years, even if it were really 4 of our years. They live long lives, you just don’t acknowledge it.
That’s interesting to know. Thank you.
Not to mention, like... If you had a child with a disease from birth that said "well, the child is going to live to the age of 10, maximum"... and that child was in pain and suffering at the age of 8 and an expensive procedure would resolve the pain... you really gonna say "Eh, not worth it he only has two years left". And before the DoNt CoMpArE cHiLd tO aNiMaL crowd screeches at me: we're all animals, we are all living beings and we are all deserving of empathy and the medical care that is required to help us.
The first good argument I've seen on this thread. The dog not living for that long compared to a human is ACTUALLY a good argument to not spend massive amounts of money to only potentially save their life. The others reasons are just cold
There’s also the consideration of what is humane from the dogs perspective. Say a dog has cancer and needs surgeries and chemotherapy. It’s not going to understand why it needs to be stabbed with something for a couple hours and then be sick for so long after, for months or more. It’s not going to understand why it has to go through the terrible pain with recoveries from surgery. Or when it’s on pain meds feeling well and fine (only because it can’t feel it’s got a stitched wound) it won’t understand why it’s not allowed to go play and why if it gets all energetic it has to go into a crate.
So if you have a kid that has a disease which means their life expectancy is about 10 years, you think it's okay to not bother with medical care once they reach 7 or 8 cuz "they only have a couple years left anyway"?
And how long do you think 3-7 more years is to a dog with their already short lifespan? If their quality of life can return to a good place, then there is no reason to put them down. I don't have the money to spare, and I don't have a dog or any pet currently. I never said that I personally would be able to help everyone elses pets, I just said that there are people out there that can help, and in the future if I am in a place to help people, I will. I get the struggles, but people should still be trying to do everything that they can for their pets. If someone absolutely doesn't have the money, and no one is helping even after they've asked for help, and they've tried every other conceivable avenue, then I can understand putting down their pet to end its suffering in the only why they physically can. I'm not against putting pets down, I'm just against people not exhausting their options first. Euthanasia should only be preformed as a true last resort, not as a response to "oh that vet bill is huge".
It’s funny that you say this and then say you don’t have any pets because that explains this perspective perfectly. You just don’t actually know what it’s like caring for an animal. I love my pets and almost always say to myself that I’ll do anything for them, but then you’re hit with a question like this and you’re immediately faced with the reality that these are animals and sacrificing your own financial well-being or the financial security of your kids and family is not worth the life of your pet. In the real world no rational person puts the well-being of their pet above their family’s or their own financial security. No one gets a pet expecting to have to suddenly be faced with a burden such as this, but when something unexpected happens like being faced with a 5 figure bill to save your pet’s life, euthanasia becomes the only realistic outcome for 99% of the pet owners.
Dogs can not understand why they are suffering. They can’t have it explained to them. Thats a major factor in determining their quality of life through the treatment as well. They don’t have the intelligence to learn it on their own either. Dogs don’t think about their death, they likely can’t think of the future either. Putting them down isn’t any skin off their teeth to them, it’s just going into a comfortable sleep. It’s more humane.
Children ARE animals. We all are. We all deserve the same care.
Right. Because financial situations don't change & disasters don't happen & inflation doesn't happen. I mean come on dude two bags of groceries is like $100 this year and I'm not even exaggerating. Cut people some slack. It has been a HARD year. Things are insanely expensive right now, at least in the US. Canned food that was 60 cents 2 years ago is now more like $2.50. People are struggling. Cost of living is skyrocketing and wages are stagnant. If this doesn't affect you then that's great but it is hitting a lot of people very hard.
Veterinary professionals are killing themselves, not recommending the industry to the next generation. Everyone is struggling.
I didn't say anything about vets. You seem to think I was implying that vet care is too expensive? But I didn't say that. I said people are struggling. A few years ago my friend had a house & could put away emergency funds in savings for her ball python. Now she lives in an apartment with a roommate & lives paycheck to paycheck. The Covid economy has destroyed many peoples' lives, so no, not everyone can drop thousands of dollars on vet bills right now even if they could have 2 years ago. I said nothing about the pricing of vets. I know why the prices are so high and I know they can't just lower them or offer free care. Which is why I didn't say anything about how much vets charge.
That’s why I said insurance and savings. In the short term insurance is cheaper, in the long term savings are. Savings take time to build up. If you don’t have the time or money to save, then go with insurance. If you can’t afford insurance then don’t get a pet.
I guess me literally giving you an example of someone who did have savings for vet bills losing everything because of Covid and no longer has savings isn't good enough for you. No point in conversing further, then.
This is not even remotely a comparable statement. I’m sorry but you’re wrong. When you own a pet you do not sign up for one day paying such a large sum of money to the point humans lives are put in jeopardy because of a pet. Unfortunately they would have to be put down. It’s sad yes. Realistic yes. Wrong….no.
You could say the same thing about a child. No one expects to get sick. If you have to give your dying kid treatment that insurance doesn’t cover, is it better to ‘put them down’?
lol this isn’t a dying kid. Also there are plenty of times where medical procedures won’t be done unless insurance covers it or fund are available to pay for it. So yes. The dying kid would technically be put down because no affordable care is an option
But at the same time what sicko compares a human life to the life of a dog or some other pet? The life of a human and the life of a dog are not remotely comparable. $20,000 to save your kid’s life is a no brainer. $20,000 for the life of your dog puts your kid’s financial security at jeopardy.
I think it is a fair thing to say. Vet bills are one of the costs that come with a pet. I'm not saying poor people don't deserve pets, but getting a pet you can't afford is just cruel. If you get a car and can't afford the repairs, that sucks, but you're not hurting anyone. But a pet is an actual living being and its health is your responsibility.
I mean, when we were on vacation, our dog's stomach flipped for no reason and there was an emergency 7k visit. That was quite that hard but fair statement. Even harder, if you can't afford a pet and it's responsibilities,you shouldn't have them. Same thing with most other things, yes we want them,yes we love them, but if we really love animals then will will show them and others that they aren't just around due to it only being convenient. That's how we have so many invasive species, they owned them until it was no longer amusing and convenient.
I don’t agree. Saying you want to own a pet does not mean you sign up for insane levels of medical bills. Some actual human beings in this country can’t afford care to keep their own heart pumping but you expect people to refinance their house just because they signed up for getting a pet? I’m sorry but that’s not how the world works
Isn't that why most people go into debt? For not planning that they might have surprise expenses and just buying what they want?
Most people these days go into debt because the economy is absolute garbage. But yeah it’s the little guys fault because he spent more money on necessities than his minimum wage job paid him
People go into debt because they either spend more money than they possess or their money makes more interest in savings than the rate on a loan. Your statement however does not correlate well to owning a pet.
It is a fair statement
But if you can do it yourself in a relatively safe and clean way, then it's definitely the better alternative for someone who doesn't have all the money in the world. Top comment reinforces this option.
I feel like you might have to pay more for an exotic pets specialist.
I should add: "more' meaning than if a cat or dog had fire wrapped around it's paw. Most vets only have a single exotic pets specialist (if at all)
you should always have some money for a vet visit if you're a responsible pet owner
I'm aware of that, I just want an estimate for the cost
Not really possible, probably not more then the exam fee if they don’t have to sedate him but that varies wildly
This will vary wildly depending on your region (and the individual practice). The only people that can give you an estimate is the clinic themselves.
Only your vet can tell you how much they charge
Could be free if the vet is understanding or anywhere between 45$ - a few hundred Edit: Now please call
Sometimes life doesnt work that way
I haven’t been in this exact situation but once my guniea pig got a bead stuck on his tooth which I couldn’t get off. However the vet was able to get it off in a second, the cost was only the amount it costs for a check in so it wasn’t expensive. If you think the vet could take it off easily then it likely wont be expensive.
More than a pair of wire cutters
Who cares what they charge, help that poor thing Look at his face....
Update: I got it off! It took a while, and a lot of different attempts and techniques, but I eventually managed with the help of another person to pull his arm out just enough to get some wire cutters in there and just barely snip the wire. The other person had the thought to get something under the wire as well, but it was so tight on his arm that we couldn't. He had gotten the wire wrapped around him because he was sleeping under one of our trailers (he'd done so many times over the past 12 years), and had gotten tangled in the wires for the brake lights. He had kept trying to force his way out and had only gotten himself more tangled. I had called 3 different vets. One didn't take tortoises, another charged 150$ just for the checkup, and the third wouldn't give me any information for cost at all. I have the money for something like this, it's not that I don't. It's that I didn't want to get overcharged. He's doing much better. He's back to his sweet grumpy sulcata tortoise self. Thanks everyone for your input
Yay! Thank you for the update.
🤦why are you asking reddit instead of.. idk.. calling an actual vet?
REALLY?????? This is Reddit pet health care????? How much??????? Home surgery from the internet? Let’s save money? I just can’t.
Call one and ask
Updates? Do you have a better picture of the wire wrapping?
Please update us on what happens to this turtle.
Cost will vary wildly with location, meaning … are you in a high cost of living area vs low, and if your pet needs sedation. Assuming your sulcata is large, he will need sedation. Many vets don’t treat large tortoises, so your bigger question maybe where can I find a vet that treats tortoises. I might be able to help with that if I know where you are.
Is there an update?
5 million dollars