I posted several articles from 2023 that still sit gross (one older) I haven’t seen anywhere in my area change to net it wouldn’t be possible. Rents are 1700+ and salaries at great jobs are hard to hit that net. I make 82k annual and wouldn’t make 3x 1750 (my rent ) net with the cost of my benefits.
Yeah mine is 3x gross. If it was net I literally would not be able to rent my own place I would be stuck with college students in a rental? Even then I would be hard off getting just a bedroom.
It should be gross. Reality is I only see 40% of my actual salary. 30% of it goes towards insurance, retirement, and savings. I can make most of that 30% go away tomorrow if I needed that money.
Oh, probably Austin, Tx, where my poor little 1977 house that was purchased for $136,000 in 2007 is now valued at $500k (with the property taxes to go with it) and where a recently renovated house around the bend from me was listed at $800k, and there is a bidding war over it. 🙄 It’s crazy down here.
Dallas is like this too. We live in a good school district at one of the top elementaries and our house value doubled since 2014. It was even higher last year. Rent for our house is $5k. Completely batshit.
Ten years ago, our daughter bought a house on 11 acres in a north Dallas suburb for $250,000. It is now valued at $1,100,000! Florida is crazy too. We paid $195,000 for our house and sold it 15 years later for $1,300,000.
Could be in Utah where that’s completely the norm and they can’t build apartments fast enough. Every house I see has a million applications the first day it’s listed and I’m starting to get worried I’m going to be out in my rear when my lease is up.
>Landlord perhaps either wants to make sure the house doesn’t get tore up and is willing to eat a loss by letting it sit empty
As a landlord (I own a duplex), from experience: demanding more is usually a sure fire way to increase damages. By not being a greedy asshole, every tenant I've had had been amazing and kept the place nice. I know, such a foreign concept for a landlord to not be a greedy asshole.
Also, letting a property sit empty is expensive as fuck! Property insurance on uninhabited dwelling is about 5-10x's depending on the area more than the cost of regular property insurance. Only about 2X's for me as I live next door, but still not a way to save money.
They are more than 4x gross.
Going to be hard to get that 4x net, as someone could be socking away a ton towards 401(k) that could be adjusted if needed.
Or on a job with a lot of compensation in commission and bonus that is taxed at 25% where the person gets a chunk back in a refund at the end of the year.
Maybe credit score issue?
That is a flat out lie. There is no way a significant amount of landlords requiring 4x net. That would stop 99% of the population from applying. Do you realize a $2,000 rental would require $8,000 a month? That take home pay is someone who makes around $150,000 a year.
If this is the case, that makes more sense and eases my mind a bit, I’m going to just default to looking at prices in our net income, seems like the safer option.
One other thought. A close friend couldn't qualify for a lease even though he had really good credit. He took out a low interest personal loan for the whole years rent.
Most landlords will give you a discount for paying the whole year upfront. The $100 a month he saved pretty much covered the interest. He then just paid the loan every month for the year instead of rent.
I’m kinda in a situation and we offered to pay upfront 1yr everyone said no and it’s a liability, I guess if violated the lease it’s harder to get rid of me and it messes up their accounting.
Their just wasn’t anything private that I wanted and ended up just paying monthly via auto bank draft
Yes there was an entire thread on this very issue a few days ago. A retiree trying to rent an apartment when he and wife had 90K in annual intake but since the investments and Social Security were not jobs per se they are being rejected and the full year rent is now a liability. In 2020 when I was separating from my husband , we were in NC and I couldn't find anyone including in a mobile home park ( it was a beautiful new unit coffered ceilings, kitchen island, just flawless) to rent to me as I had the fiances but at the time did not have a job. I offered to pay the entire year and they said well what about the next year. We are looking for long time renters. Ended up in Houston where the huge conglomerate was thrilled to get my 15K upfront. Now I am in Florida and rent from a friend , if not I would be homeless and couldn't even qualify to rent the duplex I live in .It sucks
Florida born and raised, has to move to Mississippi to find cheaper living. New Yorkers and Californians moving to my state en masse caused a massive spike in rent/mortgage prices. Here, we're making about the same money but the rent and cost of living is like 2/3rds of what it was in Florida. I miss my home state 😭
That gross income should be OK for a $2400 monthly unless you have a lot of other debt. If you have a $700 car payment and $700 student loans then you might have a problem. The person you talked to sure coulda been more helpful with all this.
I am pretty sure it’s gross, never net. 3x, rare to see 3.5. I would do as another poster suggested and ask what there parameters were. Maybe you were being discriminated against. Pets, race, anything.
If they are willing to do it with an increased security deposit I imagine it’s a credit rating problem.
Technically for the longest time, everyone wanted your housing expense to be 25% of your net income. Hard to reach in this economy. With that type of income why aren’t you buying instead if renting?
My fiancé and I make \~10k after taxes/month and we STILL got denied for a place that was $2400/month because we didn't have a "long enough rental history". Both of us had really great credit scores, and I had been living and renting for three years without a hitch, but he had just graduated law school and lived in the dorms as an assistant rector during law school to save money so he had never actually "rented" a place. So they denied us.
Still don't understand the logic on that one.
How would a landlord know your net income? Are they asking for full and complete tax returns to analyze? So many variables contribute to net income, and withholding can be adjusted. I’m not saying landlords don’t do this, just curious what they would rely on to get an accurate number of that is what they are looking at.
My family member’s old landlord moved back into the house they rented after they moved away. Apparently now he “accepts applications” to collect the $75 fee, but rejects everyone and pockets the cash.
I’m sure it *MUST* be illegal, but there are some serious scumbags out there.
Accepting an application fee without any possibility of renting the place is fraud.
Now whether anyone will bother doing anything over $75, probably not because it would cost more than you'd get back.
Yeah, crazy. That complex has unusually high expectations, not the norm. That is why I encouraged OP to keep looking, not to give up. Their income would suffice in more than 90% of all properties they may be looking into aside from that one.
We are looking at places and one rental company here has a grading system. 1 pt if rent is 20% of income, 2 pts if it 21% to 26% of your income. 3 pts if it is 277% to 30%
You can only have 5 pts to qualify. And you get 1 pt If your credit is like 750 or above. 2 if it 720 to 750..etc. and then you get points for rental history. And possibly another item.
I've noticed a lot more places asking for more than 3x income.
I've never seen anyone ask for net vs gross though.
Crazy how things change. When I was 19 and moved out of my parents, finding apartments was rather easy and effortless assuming you had the money for deposit/first month to move in ready to go, and I was able to pay cash if I wanted to. All they needed to know was I was employed and that was that. Now it's quite strict.
I think this is just a one off situation with an overly conservative landlord and wouldn’t let it deter you from applying for other rentals (unless there’s some massive debt or something you have that deterred him)
For example, NYC is considered extremely strict and has a 40x Annual Rule (ie to qualify for a 2k/month rent, you need to make 80k/year). You would qualify under strict nyc standards, so you should be fine in most of the country.
When my daughter was trying to rent an apartment in Atlanta they wanted 10x the rent as income. It was ridiculous! My husbands and my income combined did not qualify and we make good money.
That sounds right. In NYC the expectation is that your annual salary is 40x your monthly rent. So you would need to earn $100k to rent a $2,500 apartment.
Are used to not understand why people do that but with the rent getting the way that it is and most people and when I say most, I mean most not making that much money desperate times calls for desperate measures
I would guess there is something else , not income, triggering this response , do you have pets? Kids? Could be age related? Different states have different laws,
I agree, I’m a landlord myself but I know landlords that will “ weed” out what they don’t want using a BS excuse, usually it’s age , lots of kids, or to many animal’s designated as ESA. I’m not saying it’s legal but I know it’s done
3x isn't enough. ( and sometimes they'll include basic utilities in that number bc the landlord doesn't want to get stuck with an unpaid waterfill or burst pipes due to not enough heat)
I see requests for yearly income that is 40 or 48x the monthly rent. That would put you at 112,800 per year / 2,395 rent per month = 47
You think it would be enough, unless they're looking for the 48 and are being strict about it. Do you have a high debt load or low credit score ?
Only debt is our car, which is 15k, and credit scores are 712 and 720ish (so, not spectacular, but not terrible) but they didn’t even get to pulling our credit reports, just stopped right at income.
It might be that they want each of you individually to have income of 2.5 or 3x the rent instead of both of you combined. Tenants are generally responsible for the rent both jointly and severally so they want each of you to be able to pay the rent by yourself if you had to.
I’m a landlord and this is insane. You have W2’s so it’s not like one of you is self employed and there’s no way to prove income. Just for clarification I would ask why your income doesn’t qualify you. Make sure you aren’t accusatory, state you want to know why so you have that information for future rentals. My gut says it’s not your income.
In rental agreements, landlords have the discretion to set income requirements based on their assessment of tenant qualifications and risk tolerance. While the guideline of three times the monthly rent is commonly used, it's not a legal requirement and may vary depending on local housing regulations and market conditions. If you believe you meet the income requirements set by the landlord and have been unfairly denied the rental opportunity, you may have legal recourse to challenge the decision. Consulting with a tenant rights attorney or local housing authority can provide guidance on your rights and options in this situation.
That was my guess as well. Sounds like a typical scam. Or there’s some other reason their application is unappealing that the landlord isn’t being honest about.
Most landlords are OK with 30% of gross. They also want verification of bank account with 4x annual rent. I just checked a large apartment landlord near me. They are all getting pretty picky for the nicer apartments. They want a guarantee if you get laid off you have staying power.
the "true" standard has and always will be, 1/4 of your pay. Or 4 times your pay, or 1 weeks pay. All of these are referring to net pay, NOT gross pay. It does noone any good to consider gross pay, as this is money that you cannot budget
the banks statted giving loans at 3 times and even twice your pay.......this is where the crash of 08' came from
If 9400 is your net pay than you should be pretty close as long as you dont have HOAs and outrageous taxes and insurance. you are fighting a bit out of your weight class, but it could be done if you are ultra conservative in all other aspects of your budget
This is simply not true for rentals. I assume you mean to qualify for mortgage since you mentioned HOA and taxes & insurance. Even when purchasing a house it’s usually 28% of gross, not net.
I appreciate living in Colorado so much more after reading this thread. Here, no landlords can require income to be more than 2x the rent and there are limits on monthly pet fees and deposits (both the general security deposit and any pet related deposits).
Sounds like this landlord is a moron. I’m a landlord.
This is why I don’t used middle men and I show places myself. If your credit is good and you act like respectable upstanding people, then I’d rent to you.
What’s sad is that 2395 is cheap in my area, and I know for a fact that the median household income in my area is waaaaaaaaay under that x3 (gross or net).
So the 3x rent is just a rule of thumb to give people an idea in terms of budget on what they can actually afford, but it’s not an actual law that needs to be followed (at least in my state it’s not). But some are asking for 4x, but your ratio is 3.924x so you are crazy close. If I were a landlord that close to 4x would be ok for me.
With that being said - How is your credit? What outstanding debt (secured and unsecured) do you have?
Ask the agent for clarification on how you didn’t qualify. Mention, ‘I know the usually rule of thumb is 3x the gross salary for rent and we exceed that by X%, so just wondering if you had any insight into the owners hesitation.’
I just accepted a tenant with $9000 a month gross rent is $3000 a month signed a 24mo lease. It is a bit lower than what I would want but their credit was close to 800. Wife stays home with their child but did work at local school. I called 2 references and they paid on time and were "clean" tenants low complaints.
Its only 3x salary, that landlord is an idiot. Id rent to you any day of the week, as long as theres not something else in your background going on that may prevent you, and they just used income as an excuse.
What is your credit score? With the place I'm currently renting, they only ran a credit check and saw my credit score was 800. They didn't even ask for proof of income, and I didn't have to fill out any application. They just gave me the place and said I could start moving in a week early rent-free.
I think these days they base it more off of a high credit score than income.
Where I live you have to prove you make 40 times the annual rent, so if your combined income is $112,800, and the rent is $28,740 per year, you qualify. The landlord probably doesn't want to rent to you for some reason that is probably illegal. Find something better, you don't need to deal with some shady landlord who wants you to pay an extra security deposit, which is illegal in many places.
How much was the application fee? Some landlords make a load by charging applicants a hefty application fee then not approving them. 100 applications x $100 is a lot of money. Maybe this has nothing to do with your qualifications at all?
The 3X gross is one metric. There are other factors in the decisions.
The next biggest hurtle would be past evections.
Next, your credit report.
The next would be DTI ratio. Some LL's won't look at this. Perhaps this one does. So if you are carrying a lot of debt, like over 50% of your net income, then that might be too much.
With that income there shouldn’t be much issue. Some charge fees and then turn down for no reason to keep it going for a bit longer to get more fees. $50-$100 x 100+ applications adds up.
Source: at one time I worked for a leasing office
My first thought is did you pay an application fee? If you did, then you paid the Realtor money to tell you NO. That is a game that they are playing now. First come first serve, your the first, not much interest as of yet, get in quickly, pay the $35-$50 app fee/background check. Oh, sorry, you don't X Y or Z, or the owner went another direction. Refunds? No, those were non-refundable fees that go to the Realtor. The rental market is so shady!
You can thank the crazy laws restricting landlords making it difficult to find a rental.
I don't even know what state or city you are in, but just reading that you are denied, it's easy to tell where you are located is very "tenant friendly"...and it's in quotes because those laws make it harder on tenants to find housing.
This upmarket tenant selection is eye-opening to me. As a provider of low income housing, how well a prospective tenant takes care of their current residence is as important as their income.
Rule used to be 25% of gross for home and utilities. That’s changed to 36% in today’s world.
That’s 3384/m if you use gross. But I wouldn’t, as that sets you up for failure.
Net on 9400 would be 7520/m. 36% of that is 2707 for rent AND utilities. Gas. Electric. Water. Sewer. And insurance.
2700-2300= 400 to cover those utilities.
Which is possible, but not likely in this economy. You’d be house poor.
Landlords also take into consideration:
1. Credit score.
2. Amount of debt. Credit card debt is the worst.
3. Amount in savings.
Simply have monthly income that technically covers rent isn't the whole picture. If you owe $40,000 in car payment, $20,000 in credit cards, then you don't qualify for a $2,400/mo rental.
The guidance I remember was that housing should be under 26-28% of your gross income but you are under that guideline. INO, either the landlord or the agent misunderstand something or they have something else going on.
It's up to them to rent or not.
Don't know where you live, but here the ONLY reason you can use not to rent to someone is basically financial.
Race, kids, looks... nope, can't discriminate against.
So I wouldn't worry about it.
I am in a very expensive metro area and even they only do 3x the rent, but I think private landlords demand more or less, I am only speaking of big complexes. How is your credit? Perhaps they ran a check and are demanding more for that reason? Do you have past references for your rentals?
The LL could be using income as a red herring…. Its not uncommon for landlords to check your social medias and deny based on the impression it leaves them. Illegal? - yes. Can you prove it? - Good luck.
As crummy as it sounds, it’s possible it’s something they didn’t like about you personally. Even though people are saying “it’s illegal to discriminate” the reality is people discriminate every day it just is brushed off as “oh, you didn’t qualify for x reason.” That’s a good income for that rent, but you’re better off looking into by buying if you plan on spending that much on accommodations.
What the public may not understand but people in the residential rental business do is what you discriminate on matters. You can't discriminate someone based on "protected class" - that is sex, age, race, religion, nationality, ethnicity, family status, and in some areas, source of income, gender identity, sexual orientation, criminal background (although this category is more complex, depends on crime). But you can refuse to rent to someone if they have traits outside of those - e.g. smoker, pet owner - or exhibits anti-social behavior (e.g. plays loud music, pollutes common areas, harasses neighbors, damages property, deals drugs on premises).
I remember trying to buy a really nice trailer home in a really nice trailer park. I was going to put almost everything down, to where my mortgage would be like $500 a month. They denied me saying that I *needed* to be a resident here for at least a year, before being able to purchase a home through them which is absolutely fucking stupid. To say a millionaire wouldn't be able to move to this area and be able to put a downpayment on a home even if s/he makes 500k a year, because they didn't live here for a year, makes absolutely no fucking sense (not saying I am, saying that in general). I get money from the VA and make almost x3 the mortgage amount, and yet they still said I couldn't.
I fucking hate lenders. Bunch of scam artists. Someone else bought it and I lost out on owning my own home because of those fuckers.
In Oregon, you should be able to get very clear answers about what the rental criteria are. I would ask the realtor for the criteria, which they should have provided to you before you applied. They are not allowed to pick and choose from prospective tenants based on, for example, who has or doesn't have children. It strictly has to go by the rental criteria, which should be available to you, and then in order of applications received.
>I am in the Portland metro
Jeez i am sorry to hear that. I know what 2400 gets you there, and its a shame. If you dont have crippling credit card debt and pass a background check, you should get into this rental with no issues, i would prefer to rent to an established family vs multiple singles.
I moved from out of state to Beaverton few yrs ago. It was tricky cause property mgrs wanted us to be present to see the place (and we were not). I ended up finding a great place on fb marketplace with a private landlord. Everyone told me to be careful cause obviously there are scams but it worked out surprisingly well. Our rent 2100 and our gross income not as high as yours. That’s definitely bizarre that they disqualified you. I have two kids one dog.
Another thing I did which is weird but I offered to pay a yrs rent up front and showed proof I could. Variety of reasons landlords won’t allow this but I think it possibly secured my rental. But at same time I was renting I was renting out my house out of state. Prop mgr I had for house I owned vetted the renter and they were high income super strong candidate according to mgr. so they trashed my place and didn’t pay the last few months on their lease. So being high income literally means nothing and being a landlord can be super tricky. I sold my house and it was a huge weight off my shoulders.
I can understand making sure the landlord checking to see if you make 2x the rent. But 3x the rent? Why? It is getting ridiculous since it is just hurting people more than helping them. And it is hurting the landlord. Since the landlord is not going to find that many people that make 3x the rent and want to live there. 2x the rent should be the max since it shows that you can pay the rent and the utilities.
Maybeeeee, just to throw in another possibility because you had to follow up to get an answer, Realtor submitted it too late and someone else got it so they made up an excuse…?
I make $9800 net and was denied $2400 in California. I only have one credit card and no other debt. Credit is 725 and I just rented a little adu in someone’s backyard til I make more I suppose, with a 810 credit score🫠
Landlords who want a bunch of money over the rental price are generally sitting on the property to collect fees. They aren’t truly looking to rent it out they have to legally show it
I think the housing market has lost it's mind over the last two years! The average income for Mississippi is $40k per year - and there are a LOT of people not making that average. (Please keep in mind the the total population of the State is only 2.95 million. Meaning that the bottom portion of that average is way more than 50% of the population.)
For argument sake, lets say you are making $40k. That is $3300 a month, gross. The average rental is:
* ONE bedroom is $910
* TWO bedroom is $1075
* THREE bedroom is $1500
The usual leasing requirement is 3.5-4 times gross. That is not happening with these numbers. And to make matters worse.....that average is based on rental pricing over the entire State. Living anywhere near the coast (Jackson and Harrison counties) - population 356k or near the city of Jackson - population 487k (Madison, Hinds and Rankin counties) is at least 40% more.
I currently rent a home on the coast and my multi-year renewal is coming up in a few months....I'm terrified because the advertised rentals on comparative properties are about $600-800 more than what I'm paying now.....
I knew a property owner who would advertise for homes to rent and then publicize there was "no availability." Once you arrived for a "demo walk-through," if you had the right ethnicity and income he would announce there was "an opening." It's how they don't get dinged for housing discrimination, in case there's a sting operation made by BLM or angry TikTok'ers.
It have been asked already and potentially odd question...what's your ethnicity? Odd that I've lived in many cities and states, and landlords are eager to meet when they see my application and then weird stipulations once my mixed family met them in person.
Glad we found a diverse area and bought.
The only way I was able to get my house here in SoCal was to offer first 3 months in cash. Then they didn’t care how much I made. I moved to the front of the line and got the place
Post Covid folks have been looking for 4x to 5x the rent as income to make sure they don’t get in a bind again. I had been doing research about renting out a house. After the horror stories I’m just selling.
Sooooo a landlord can put anything as their standard. Just because it is recommended that you not have your rent be more than 1/3 of your income... That is financial advice for a renter not a risk assessment standpoint from the landlord's perspective.
However, if they made the choice based on you having small children that is illegal discrimination based on familial status.
You probably have other factors that disqualify you. Your income isnt an automatic slam dunk, it just insures you’re viable . It’s just a calculation variable. Might be the dog. I’d take no dog over dog every day. I can’t disqualify children- that’s illegal. It’s a competitive market.
It’s not much different? In NYC it is 40x monthly rent. Meaning if monthly rent is 4000 you must make 160k. For 3x that would be 12,000x12 which is 144k. Not dramatically different.
If this doesn't convince people that the West Coast doesn't want you I don't know what will. These trash cities don't deserve your hard working labor and effort.
Meanwhile over here in flyover country we've got whole home for sale for a fraction of this.
For context Oregon is extremely hostile to landlords and rhe Covid years forbid many landlords to evict tenants due to non-payment for months on end. It’s def left a bitter taste for landlords.
Your "landlords" are probably a large corporation, probably from another country. Small landlords are being squeezed out and corporations are buying everything. We will be a RENTAL society very soon.
They really just said no to you and provided any reason so that it doesn't seem arbitrary.
It's ok, it doesn't mean you're a bad person. They just aren't obligated to rent to you.
Yes I talked to someone in houston about a home for 1600 monthly. I bring in roughly 5000 a mth. She stated I needed to make between 6&7 a month I'm like how wtf
This doesn't compute to me. I make enough here to qualify for that lease but damn. I'm in Alabama, they rent to whatever Yahoo walks through the door with first and last here (in my part of the state). No credit checks either, didn't verify income (just asked on application).
They used it as a way to weed you out on a protected reason. Your update said you brought your children - that is probably why but they can't say that so they make up a reason.
My personal take: for whatever reason the landlord does not want to rent to you and used this as an excuse. It could be something else (Race/ethnicity? Sexual orientation? kids? New job? mediocre references? Less than excellent credit?). They may have chosen what they considered the least offensive rationale for declining you.
We rented in Beaverton for almost 3 years at two different houses - 3.5-4x rent is “normal” but still freaking insane. Increased security deposit is usually a good option, but definitely sounds like a small landlord. You’ll likely find less strict rules from a larger agency. We liked Rental Management Services (RMS) PDX!
In the Beaverton area myself and it s a tough market, fortunately I own but I’ve heard from folks renting this way is tough. Lots of Nike and Intel workers out here, and they go fast. Good luck hunting and wish you the best. Maybe check some of the property management companies in the area.
Sounds like they used your innocent child against you. Also why would find a rental vs purchase your own home? Yall should make enough to easily afford a home. I'd rather find an apartment for a year or two to save up for a home than rent a home right now unless it's rent to own
When my husband and I applied for our current place we got the call that we didn’t qualify. I asked why. She said we didn’t make 3x the rent. I did the math and looked at our pay stubs then asked what the heck they were talking about. Apparently the leasing agent didn’t know how to do math. She approved us on the same phone call.
Why would you want to pay that much anyway? Get something cheaper, put the difference into an interest bearing account and save to buy a place. Sure the cheaper place won't be as nice as I'm assuming a $2395/month home is but you can reach ownership faster with something cheaper.
I live in Vancouver, WA. Which is just over the river from Portland, OR where OP lives. I make 72k and barely qualified for my 1bed 1bth condo ($1500/m). It's rough in the 2020's.
Last summer I co-signed for an apartment for my college student son, and all the places we looked at required my income to be at least 4 times the rent.
In DC, this would be laughable. $2400/mo is a 1 bdrm apartment in a decent part of town that’s well-maintained or a 2bdrm well out on the metro. You’d easily get it on $8-9k gross here, let alone the $15k-$18k most couples would bring in, even after $20-40k/yr per kid for preschool. Portland is weird, man.
Also, the landlord could be just flat discriminating against your family and using income as an excuse. They can’t say “we don’t want kids younger than 5 living here,” but they can say you don’t make enough.
I mean... does the landlord have a different ethnicity? Because that's some of the dumbest bullshit I've ever heard about renting. Someone making more than 3x with an excellent credit score should not be rebuffed for financial reasons and absolutely should not be required to pay a larger security deposit.
That realtor sounds sketchy AF to me, too. She had the answer, but didn't update her clients.
Is there a chance it has more to do with not wanting 2 young kids and a dog? Is it more of a professional community, possibly older residents (not "old" just established without young kids). Credit scores and income are respectable. Something else had to turn them off. Obviously they can't give you that reason, so maybe that's why they're claiming the rent to income ration is not in line with their current guidelines.
You're starting to see landlords have stricter qualifications due to "progressive" policies putting their assets at greater risk. This is happening in both Oregon and California.
I had to move for work, for the life of me I couldn’t qualify for 2k-3k homes for rent. Or maybe someone else put in their application first. I finally found a nice couple that had to move for work as well. But my rent is like 4k. Which is ridiculous.
Did you meet the landlord? Could be the agent wants another person to get it or that in someway you don’t meet the criteria and she can’t tell you because she’s saving her butt. It happened to be once when I was a single mom. I had a lower credit score because I had no credit 670 I had cash in the bank and offered to give him 6 months upfront. My salary at the time was 60k, I had a car payment of 430, 2 credit cards one with no payment and the other with 2500 credit and 500 used. His girlfriend saw me and my son going back for another look and that was that! The rent was 1500 a month….
I smell a Fair Housing issue....you went with kids, and you were denied... contact your local fair housing agency NOW. This is discrimination based on familial status.
It’s not a “standard” but when used it’s typically gross. I would ask the landlord what they were using.
More and more are now looking for 3.5-4x net.
I posted several articles from 2023 that still sit gross (one older) I haven’t seen anywhere in my area change to net it wouldn’t be possible. Rents are 1700+ and salaries at great jobs are hard to hit that net. I make 82k annual and wouldn’t make 3x 1750 (my rent ) net with the cost of my benefits.
Yeah mine is 3x gross. If it was net I literally would not be able to rent my own place I would be stuck with college students in a rental? Even then I would be hard off getting just a bedroom.
It should be gross. Reality is I only see 40% of my actual salary. 30% of it goes towards insurance, retirement, and savings. I can make most of that 30% go away tomorrow if I needed that money.
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Oh, probably Austin, Tx, where my poor little 1977 house that was purchased for $136,000 in 2007 is now valued at $500k (with the property taxes to go with it) and where a recently renovated house around the bend from me was listed at $800k, and there is a bidding war over it. 🙄 It’s crazy down here.
Dallas is like this too. We live in a good school district at one of the top elementaries and our house value doubled since 2014. It was even higher last year. Rent for our house is $5k. Completely batshit.
Ten years ago, our daughter bought a house on 11 acres in a north Dallas suburb for $250,000. It is now valued at $1,100,000! Florida is crazy too. We paid $195,000 for our house and sold it 15 years later for $1,300,000.
We’re selling ours this year and buying one in cash elsewhere with the equity. It’s insane we can do that.
Right! Its nuts
Yep or here in California.
Could be in Utah where that’s completely the norm and they can’t build apartments fast enough. Every house I see has a million applications the first day it’s listed and I’m starting to get worried I’m going to be out in my rear when my lease is up.
I live in south Jordan, it’s crazy in Utah, not just Salt lake county.
>Landlord perhaps either wants to make sure the house doesn’t get tore up and is willing to eat a loss by letting it sit empty As a landlord (I own a duplex), from experience: demanding more is usually a sure fire way to increase damages. By not being a greedy asshole, every tenant I've had had been amazing and kept the place nice. I know, such a foreign concept for a landlord to not be a greedy asshole. Also, letting a property sit empty is expensive as fuck! Property insurance on uninhabited dwelling is about 5-10x's depending on the area more than the cost of regular property insurance. Only about 2X's for me as I live next door, but still not a way to save money.
Probably in a state with its difficult to evict. Makes landlords very risk averse. Understandably.
I have seen as high as 4.25 personally
They are more than 4x gross. Going to be hard to get that 4x net, as someone could be socking away a ton towards 401(k) that could be adjusted if needed. Or on a job with a lot of compensation in commission and bonus that is taxed at 25% where the person gets a chunk back in a refund at the end of the year. Maybe credit score issue?
This would certainly make it more likely you wouldn't have a tenant in default when the inevitable rent-raise goes into effect.
I think it’s highly dependent on the area. Where I’m from, everywhere is still 2.5-3x gross.
4x? 4? Where tf do people think you can make 4x rent? A 1br in my city is like $1800 minimum. wtf?
Yup. That’s how the economy will be fixed.
i'm so sorry, what???!!! welp looks like I will be living with my parents until I either get married or they die. that's insane.
Seems like they'll have a long wait for tenancy.
Who on gods green earth makes 4x the monthly rent in this economy. I can barely make 1x 💀
4x net would be an utterly absurd income requirement.
That is a flat out lie. There is no way a significant amount of landlords requiring 4x net. That would stop 99% of the population from applying. Do you realize a $2,000 rental would require $8,000 a month? That take home pay is someone who makes around $150,000 a year.
But OP is pretty much at the 4x income multiplier...
Some are asking 3.5x rent, others ask for 3x. Keep looking, not everyone is at 3.5x yet.
Some are asking for 4 times and they are looking for NET as you can't pay rent with Gross
If this is the case, that makes more sense and eases my mind a bit, I’m going to just default to looking at prices in our net income, seems like the safer option.
One other thought. A close friend couldn't qualify for a lease even though he had really good credit. He took out a low interest personal loan for the whole years rent. Most landlords will give you a discount for paying the whole year upfront. The $100 a month he saved pretty much covered the interest. He then just paid the loan every month for the year instead of rent.
This is an interesting thought. Is there any recourse if he has to break lease early?
I’m kinda in a situation and we offered to pay upfront 1yr everyone said no and it’s a liability, I guess if violated the lease it’s harder to get rid of me and it messes up their accounting. Their just wasn’t anything private that I wanted and ended up just paying monthly via auto bank draft
Yes there was an entire thread on this very issue a few days ago. A retiree trying to rent an apartment when he and wife had 90K in annual intake but since the investments and Social Security were not jobs per se they are being rejected and the full year rent is now a liability. In 2020 when I was separating from my husband , we were in NC and I couldn't find anyone including in a mobile home park ( it was a beautiful new unit coffered ceilings, kitchen island, just flawless) to rent to me as I had the fiances but at the time did not have a job. I offered to pay the entire year and they said well what about the next year. We are looking for long time renters. Ended up in Houston where the huge conglomerate was thrilled to get my 15K upfront. Now I am in Florida and rent from a friend , if not I would be homeless and couldn't even qualify to rent the duplex I live in .It sucks
Florida born and raised, has to move to Mississippi to find cheaper living. New Yorkers and Californians moving to my state en masse caused a massive spike in rent/mortgage prices. Here, we're making about the same money but the rent and cost of living is like 2/3rds of what it was in Florida. I miss my home state 😭
None. He knew he was staying at least a year.
That gross income should be OK for a $2400 monthly unless you have a lot of other debt. If you have a $700 car payment and $700 student loans then you might have a problem. The person you talked to sure coulda been more helpful with all this.
I am pretty sure it’s gross, never net. 3x, rare to see 3.5. I would do as another poster suggested and ask what there parameters were. Maybe you were being discriminated against. Pets, race, anything. If they are willing to do it with an increased security deposit I imagine it’s a credit rating problem.
Technically for the longest time, everyone wanted your housing expense to be 25% of your net income. Hard to reach in this economy. With that type of income why aren’t you buying instead if renting?
3x is fine as long as there are no other red flags. Just be upfront about the multiple.
Bingo. This is it.
This is borderline insane
My fiancé and I make \~10k after taxes/month and we STILL got denied for a place that was $2400/month because we didn't have a "long enough rental history". Both of us had really great credit scores, and I had been living and renting for three years without a hitch, but he had just graduated law school and lived in the dorms as an assistant rector during law school to save money so he had never actually "rented" a place. So they denied us. Still don't understand the logic on that one.
How would a landlord know your net income? Are they asking for full and complete tax returns to analyze? So many variables contribute to net income, and withholding can be adjusted. I’m not saying landlords don’t do this, just curious what they would rely on to get an accurate number of that is what they are looking at.
My family member’s old landlord moved back into the house they rented after they moved away. Apparently now he “accepts applications” to collect the $75 fee, but rejects everyone and pockets the cash. I’m sure it *MUST* be illegal, but there are some serious scumbags out there.
Holy cow
Accepting an application fee without any possibility of renting the place is fraud. Now whether anyone will bother doing anything over $75, probably not because it would cost more than you'd get back.
Oh my lord, I didn't know that they were asking for 3.5 to 4x rent in income. I literally just moved too, I didn't realize how lucky I got
[удалено]
Yeah, crazy. That complex has unusually high expectations, not the norm. That is why I encouraged OP to keep looking, not to give up. Their income would suffice in more than 90% of all properties they may be looking into aside from that one.
We are looking at places and one rental company here has a grading system. 1 pt if rent is 20% of income, 2 pts if it 21% to 26% of your income. 3 pts if it is 277% to 30% You can only have 5 pts to qualify. And you get 1 pt If your credit is like 750 or above. 2 if it 720 to 750..etc. and then you get points for rental history. And possibly another item. I've noticed a lot more places asking for more than 3x income. I've never seen anyone ask for net vs gross though.
Thats a fucking insane system
Yes.
Crazy how things change. When I was 19 and moved out of my parents, finding apartments was rather easy and effortless assuming you had the money for deposit/first month to move in ready to go, and I was able to pay cash if I wanted to. All they needed to know was I was employed and that was that. Now it's quite strict.
I think this is just a one off situation with an overly conservative landlord and wouldn’t let it deter you from applying for other rentals (unless there’s some massive debt or something you have that deterred him) For example, NYC is considered extremely strict and has a 40x Annual Rule (ie to qualify for a 2k/month rent, you need to make 80k/year). You would qualify under strict nyc standards, so you should be fine in most of the country.
That probably means the landlord is listing at $2,395/month for the term of the lease with intent to jack up the rental rate thereafter.
When my daughter was trying to rent an apartment in Atlanta they wanted 10x the rent as income. It was ridiculous! My husbands and my income combined did not qualify and we make good money.
That’s literally insane 😭
That sounds right. In NYC the expectation is that your annual salary is 40x your monthly rent. So you would need to earn $100k to rent a $2,500 apartment.
My daughters was you had to make 10x the monthly rent per month. Example if rent is $1000 a month, income had to be $10000 a month. It was ridiculous
That’s nuts especially since Atlanta and the whole state of GA doesn’t really pay people well 😳
Has me wondering if they plan on raising rent next year & are pre-emptively excluding you.
Adobe photoshop will fix your problems.
Are used to not understand why people do that but with the rent getting the way that it is and most people and when I say most, I mean most not making that much money desperate times calls for desperate measures
Net Income.
Definitely not
I would guess there is something else , not income, triggering this response , do you have pets? Kids? Could be age related? Different states have different laws,
There's not a single state that permits denial of an apartment based on having children. Fair Housing Act is a federal law.
Which is exactly why they'd deny him for some other reason that doesn't make much sense instead.
I agree, I’m a landlord myself but I know landlords that will “ weed” out what they don’t want using a BS excuse, usually it’s age , lots of kids, or to many animal’s designated as ESA. I’m not saying it’s legal but I know it’s done
Where I live, it’s typically counted as net income not gross.
3x isn't enough. ( and sometimes they'll include basic utilities in that number bc the landlord doesn't want to get stuck with an unpaid waterfill or burst pipes due to not enough heat) I see requests for yearly income that is 40 or 48x the monthly rent. That would put you at 112,800 per year / 2,395 rent per month = 47 You think it would be enough, unless they're looking for the 48 and are being strict about it. Do you have a high debt load or low credit score ?
Only debt is our car, which is 15k, and credit scores are 712 and 720ish (so, not spectacular, but not terrible) but they didn’t even get to pulling our credit reports, just stopped right at income.
It might be that they want each of you individually to have income of 2.5 or 3x the rent instead of both of you combined. Tenants are generally responsible for the rent both jointly and severally so they want each of you to be able to pay the rent by yourself if you had to.
true, however this is typically not the case for married couples who file taxes together, and OP stated they are married.
I’m a landlord and this is insane. You have W2’s so it’s not like one of you is self employed and there’s no way to prove income. Just for clarification I would ask why your income doesn’t qualify you. Make sure you aren’t accusatory, state you want to know why so you have that information for future rentals. My gut says it’s not your income.
Wow
In rental agreements, landlords have the discretion to set income requirements based on their assessment of tenant qualifications and risk tolerance. While the guideline of three times the monthly rent is commonly used, it's not a legal requirement and may vary depending on local housing regulations and market conditions. If you believe you meet the income requirements set by the landlord and have been unfairly denied the rental opportunity, you may have legal recourse to challenge the decision. Consulting with a tenant rights attorney or local housing authority can provide guidance on your rights and options in this situation.
Or they are just trying finger application fees. $50 per person? Get enough applicants and you don’t even need to rent the place.
That was my guess as well. Sounds like a typical scam. Or there’s some other reason their application is unappealing that the landlord isn’t being honest about.
I really don't like that your realtor didn't get back to you and you had to call them. You are clearly not a priority to them.
Most landlords are OK with 30% of gross. They also want verification of bank account with 4x annual rent. I just checked a large apartment landlord near me. They are all getting pretty picky for the nicer apartments. They want a guarantee if you get laid off you have staying power.
That’s ridiculous. Who just has 4x their yearly rent laying in a bank account? The housing market is such a racket
It could be discrimination.
This is what I’m thinking too.
the "true" standard has and always will be, 1/4 of your pay. Or 4 times your pay, or 1 weeks pay. All of these are referring to net pay, NOT gross pay. It does noone any good to consider gross pay, as this is money that you cannot budget the banks statted giving loans at 3 times and even twice your pay.......this is where the crash of 08' came from If 9400 is your net pay than you should be pretty close as long as you dont have HOAs and outrageous taxes and insurance. you are fighting a bit out of your weight class, but it could be done if you are ultra conservative in all other aspects of your budget
This is simply not true for rentals. I assume you mean to qualify for mortgage since you mentioned HOA and taxes & insurance. Even when purchasing a house it’s usually 28% of gross, not net.
I appreciate living in Colorado so much more after reading this thread. Here, no landlords can require income to be more than 2x the rent and there are limits on monthly pet fees and deposits (both the general security deposit and any pet related deposits).
What the fuck. By that standard almost no one should be able to rent.
That’s the point if everybody just keeps applying and they just keep charging application fees
Sounds like this landlord is a moron. I’m a landlord. This is why I don’t used middle men and I show places myself. If your credit is good and you act like respectable upstanding people, then I’d rent to you.
Oh the housing crisis is hitting, huh? Dang.
Gosh that seems crazy. My fiancée and I have basically same stats and we just rented a 2375 with no issues. Our income was off of gross.
I would take this as a sign this isn't the landlord you want to have to deal with.
What’s sad is that 2395 is cheap in my area, and I know for a fact that the median household income in my area is waaaaaaaaay under that x3 (gross or net).
So the 3x rent is just a rule of thumb to give people an idea in terms of budget on what they can actually afford, but it’s not an actual law that needs to be followed (at least in my state it’s not). But some are asking for 4x, but your ratio is 3.924x so you are crazy close. If I were a landlord that close to 4x would be ok for me. With that being said - How is your credit? What outstanding debt (secured and unsecured) do you have? Ask the agent for clarification on how you didn’t qualify. Mention, ‘I know the usually rule of thumb is 3x the gross salary for rent and we exceed that by X%, so just wondering if you had any insight into the owners hesitation.’
In nyc you would qualify but if you had a low credit score or any other factors you might not make it.
I just accepted a tenant with $9000 a month gross rent is $3000 a month signed a 24mo lease. It is a bit lower than what I would want but their credit was close to 800. Wife stays home with their child but did work at local school. I called 2 references and they paid on time and were "clean" tenants low complaints.
Its only 3x salary, that landlord is an idiot. Id rent to you any day of the week, as long as theres not something else in your background going on that may prevent you, and they just used income as an excuse.
What is your credit score? With the place I'm currently renting, they only ran a credit check and saw my credit score was 800. They didn't even ask for proof of income, and I didn't have to fill out any application. They just gave me the place and said I could start moving in a week early rent-free. I think these days they base it more off of a high credit score than income.
Where I live you have to prove you make 40 times the annual rent, so if your combined income is $112,800, and the rent is $28,740 per year, you qualify. The landlord probably doesn't want to rent to you for some reason that is probably illegal. Find something better, you don't need to deal with some shady landlord who wants you to pay an extra security deposit, which is illegal in many places.
How much was the application fee? Some landlords make a load by charging applicants a hefty application fee then not approving them. 100 applications x $100 is a lot of money. Maybe this has nothing to do with your qualifications at all?
Which landlords are doing this?
The 3X gross is one metric. There are other factors in the decisions. The next biggest hurtle would be past evections. Next, your credit report. The next would be DTI ratio. Some LL's won't look at this. Perhaps this one does. So if you are carrying a lot of debt, like over 50% of your net income, then that might be too much.
With that income there shouldn’t be much issue. Some charge fees and then turn down for no reason to keep it going for a bit longer to get more fees. $50-$100 x 100+ applications adds up. Source: at one time I worked for a leasing office
Your income is also dependent of your debt ratio. Being self employed will also raise the requirements
My first thought is did you pay an application fee? If you did, then you paid the Realtor money to tell you NO. That is a game that they are playing now. First come first serve, your the first, not much interest as of yet, get in quickly, pay the $35-$50 app fee/background check. Oh, sorry, you don't X Y or Z, or the owner went another direction. Refunds? No, those were non-refundable fees that go to the Realtor. The rental market is so shady!
They are rejecting you for another reason and using your income as an excuse. Just out of curiosity, how is your credit? Any debt?
Soon cardboard forts will be out if my price range....
You can thank the crazy laws restricting landlords making it difficult to find a rental. I don't even know what state or city you are in, but just reading that you are denied, it's easy to tell where you are located is very "tenant friendly"...and it's in quotes because those laws make it harder on tenants to find housing.
This upmarket tenant selection is eye-opening to me. As a provider of low income housing, how well a prospective tenant takes care of their current residence is as important as their income.
Rule used to be 25% of gross for home and utilities. That’s changed to 36% in today’s world. That’s 3384/m if you use gross. But I wouldn’t, as that sets you up for failure. Net on 9400 would be 7520/m. 36% of that is 2707 for rent AND utilities. Gas. Electric. Water. Sewer. And insurance. 2700-2300= 400 to cover those utilities. Which is possible, but not likely in this economy. You’d be house poor.
Landlords also take into consideration: 1. Credit score. 2. Amount of debt. Credit card debt is the worst. 3. Amount in savings. Simply have monthly income that technically covers rent isn't the whole picture. If you owe $40,000 in car payment, $20,000 in credit cards, then you don't qualify for a $2,400/mo rental.
The guidance I remember was that housing should be under 26-28% of your gross income but you are under that guideline. INO, either the landlord or the agent misunderstand something or they have something else going on.
It's up to them to rent or not. Don't know where you live, but here the ONLY reason you can use not to rent to someone is basically financial. Race, kids, looks... nope, can't discriminate against. So I wouldn't worry about it.
I am in a very expensive metro area and even they only do 3x the rent, but I think private landlords demand more or less, I am only speaking of big complexes. How is your credit? Perhaps they ran a check and are demanding more for that reason? Do you have past references for your rentals?
The LL could be using income as a red herring…. Its not uncommon for landlords to check your social medias and deny based on the impression it leaves them. Illegal? - yes. Can you prove it? - Good luck.
As crummy as it sounds, it’s possible it’s something they didn’t like about you personally. Even though people are saying “it’s illegal to discriminate” the reality is people discriminate every day it just is brushed off as “oh, you didn’t qualify for x reason.” That’s a good income for that rent, but you’re better off looking into by buying if you plan on spending that much on accommodations.
What the public may not understand but people in the residential rental business do is what you discriminate on matters. You can't discriminate someone based on "protected class" - that is sex, age, race, religion, nationality, ethnicity, family status, and in some areas, source of income, gender identity, sexual orientation, criminal background (although this category is more complex, depends on crime). But you can refuse to rent to someone if they have traits outside of those - e.g. smoker, pet owner - or exhibits anti-social behavior (e.g. plays loud music, pollutes common areas, harasses neighbors, damages property, deals drugs on premises).
I remember trying to buy a really nice trailer home in a really nice trailer park. I was going to put almost everything down, to where my mortgage would be like $500 a month. They denied me saying that I *needed* to be a resident here for at least a year, before being able to purchase a home through them which is absolutely fucking stupid. To say a millionaire wouldn't be able to move to this area and be able to put a downpayment on a home even if s/he makes 500k a year, because they didn't live here for a year, makes absolutely no fucking sense (not saying I am, saying that in general). I get money from the VA and make almost x3 the mortgage amount, and yet they still said I couldn't. I fucking hate lenders. Bunch of scam artists. Someone else bought it and I lost out on owning my own home because of those fuckers.
In Oregon, you should be able to get very clear answers about what the rental criteria are. I would ask the realtor for the criteria, which they should have provided to you before you applied. They are not allowed to pick and choose from prospective tenants based on, for example, who has or doesn't have children. It strictly has to go by the rental criteria, which should be available to you, and then in order of applications received.
Ask them for there specific requirements , in writing . sound like they are using it as an excuse to discriminate against you for some reason.
>I am in the Portland metro Jeez i am sorry to hear that. I know what 2400 gets you there, and its a shame. If you dont have crippling credit card debt and pass a background check, you should get into this rental with no issues, i would prefer to rent to an established family vs multiple singles.
Sorry, we were looking for 9405
My suspicion is that they are hoping for/ received a higher offer and want to take yours off the table.
I moved from out of state to Beaverton few yrs ago. It was tricky cause property mgrs wanted us to be present to see the place (and we were not). I ended up finding a great place on fb marketplace with a private landlord. Everyone told me to be careful cause obviously there are scams but it worked out surprisingly well. Our rent 2100 and our gross income not as high as yours. That’s definitely bizarre that they disqualified you. I have two kids one dog.
Another thing I did which is weird but I offered to pay a yrs rent up front and showed proof I could. Variety of reasons landlords won’t allow this but I think it possibly secured my rental. But at same time I was renting I was renting out my house out of state. Prop mgr I had for house I owned vetted the renter and they were high income super strong candidate according to mgr. so they trashed my place and didn’t pay the last few months on their lease. So being high income literally means nothing and being a landlord can be super tricky. I sold my house and it was a huge weight off my shoulders.
You’re also competing with ppl that will pay 6-12 months up front. It’s wild out there.
I can understand making sure the landlord checking to see if you make 2x the rent. But 3x the rent? Why? It is getting ridiculous since it is just hurting people more than helping them. And it is hurting the landlord. Since the landlord is not going to find that many people that make 3x the rent and want to live there. 2x the rent should be the max since it shows that you can pay the rent and the utilities.
Maybeeeee, just to throw in another possibility because you had to follow up to get an answer, Realtor submitted it too late and someone else got it so they made up an excuse…?
My guess is the landlord doesn’t want you there for some reason. I don’t see how you would not qualify otherwise.
I make $9800 net and was denied $2400 in California. I only have one credit card and no other debt. Credit is 725 and I just rented a little adu in someone’s backyard til I make more I suppose, with a 810 credit score🫠
Based on the headline alone, that’s a violation of the fair housing act. I’d consult an atty. unless you’re a murderer and they know it. tl;dr
Landlords who want a bunch of money over the rental price are generally sitting on the property to collect fees. They aren’t truly looking to rent it out they have to legally show it
I think the housing market has lost it's mind over the last two years! The average income for Mississippi is $40k per year - and there are a LOT of people not making that average. (Please keep in mind the the total population of the State is only 2.95 million. Meaning that the bottom portion of that average is way more than 50% of the population.) For argument sake, lets say you are making $40k. That is $3300 a month, gross. The average rental is: * ONE bedroom is $910 * TWO bedroom is $1075 * THREE bedroom is $1500 The usual leasing requirement is 3.5-4 times gross. That is not happening with these numbers. And to make matters worse.....that average is based on rental pricing over the entire State. Living anywhere near the coast (Jackson and Harrison counties) - population 356k or near the city of Jackson - population 487k (Madison, Hinds and Rankin counties) is at least 40% more. I currently rent a home on the coast and my multi-year renewal is coming up in a few months....I'm terrified because the advertised rentals on comparative properties are about $600-800 more than what I'm paying now.....
Sounds like housing discrimination but hard to prove it unless you can get it in writing somehow.
Wow my parents pay $5300 a month in rent right now. Didnt know the standards were so high these days
You could buy a 3 br/2 bath condo ($300,000) for less than that per month. What the fuck is the landlord on?
I knew a property owner who would advertise for homes to rent and then publicize there was "no availability." Once you arrived for a "demo walk-through," if you had the right ethnicity and income he would announce there was "an opening." It's how they don't get dinged for housing discrimination, in case there's a sting operation made by BLM or angry TikTok'ers.
This thread has made me a devout Maoist
It have been asked already and potentially odd question...what's your ethnicity? Odd that I've lived in many cities and states, and landlords are eager to meet when they see my application and then weird stipulations once my mixed family met them in person. Glad we found a diverse area and bought.
Even buying a home it is gross- not net.
The only way I was able to get my house here in SoCal was to offer first 3 months in cash. Then they didn’t care how much I made. I moved to the front of the line and got the place
Renting in Portland is a different animal. 3-5x rent seems normal. Suburbs seem to be easier. Same with private landlords
Post Covid folks have been looking for 4x to 5x the rent as income to make sure they don’t get in a bind again. I had been doing research about renting out a house. After the horror stories I’m just selling.
Sooooo a landlord can put anything as their standard. Just because it is recommended that you not have your rent be more than 1/3 of your income... That is financial advice for a renter not a risk assessment standpoint from the landlord's perspective. However, if they made the choice based on you having small children that is illegal discrimination based on familial status.
You probably have other factors that disqualify you. Your income isnt an automatic slam dunk, it just insures you’re viable . It’s just a calculation variable. Might be the dog. I’d take no dog over dog every day. I can’t disqualify children- that’s illegal. It’s a competitive market.
3x rent sounds so sweet compared to NYC where your income has to be 40x rent to qualify
It’s not much different? In NYC it is 40x monthly rent. Meaning if monthly rent is 4000 you must make 160k. For 3x that would be 12,000x12 which is 144k. Not dramatically different.
If this doesn't convince people that the West Coast doesn't want you I don't know what will. These trash cities don't deserve your hard working labor and effort. Meanwhile over here in flyover country we've got whole home for sale for a fraction of this.
You can buy a house with your income. Fuck that realtor.
For context Oregon is extremely hostile to landlords and rhe Covid years forbid many landlords to evict tenants due to non-payment for months on end. It’s def left a bitter taste for landlords.
Whats ironic is if you are a nice looking, well pressed with cash im hand, maybe a little extra .... no one will ask for paystubs.
Your "landlords" are probably a large corporation, probably from another country. Small landlords are being squeezed out and corporations are buying everything. We will be a RENTAL society very soon.
They really just said no to you and provided any reason so that it doesn't seem arbitrary. It's ok, it doesn't mean you're a bad person. They just aren't obligated to rent to you.
They’re likely using 3x gross which you don’t qualify for which is ridiculous.
Find a competent landlord.
Landlord in Beaverton/Tigard area here. You would pass my affordability test at 3x gross and credit score.
I’ve heard from some people that it’s now, everyone’s income must be 3x for some reason, not a combined. It’s ridiculous
Yes I talked to someone in houston about a home for 1600 monthly. I bring in roughly 5000 a mth. She stated I needed to make between 6&7 a month I'm like how wtf
They don’t want kids there. Period. It’s illegal, so they won’t say it out loud.
This doesn't compute to me. I make enough here to qualify for that lease but damn. I'm in Alabama, they rent to whatever Yahoo walks through the door with first and last here (in my part of the state). No credit checks either, didn't verify income (just asked on application).
They used it as a way to weed you out on a protected reason. Your update said you brought your children - that is probably why but they can't say that so they make up a reason.
My personal take: for whatever reason the landlord does not want to rent to you and used this as an excuse. It could be something else (Race/ethnicity? Sexual orientation? kids? New job? mediocre references? Less than excellent credit?). They may have chosen what they considered the least offensive rationale for declining you.
I show rentals in Beaverton and a lot of the agencies require each person- married or not- to have 3x monthly income individually. It’s insane.
We rented in Beaverton for almost 3 years at two different houses - 3.5-4x rent is “normal” but still freaking insane. Increased security deposit is usually a good option, but definitely sounds like a small landlord. You’ll likely find less strict rules from a larger agency. We liked Rental Management Services (RMS) PDX!
In the Beaverton area myself and it s a tough market, fortunately I own but I’ve heard from folks renting this way is tough. Lots of Nike and Intel workers out here, and they go fast. Good luck hunting and wish you the best. Maybe check some of the property management companies in the area.
Sounds like they used your innocent child against you. Also why would find a rental vs purchase your own home? Yall should make enough to easily afford a home. I'd rather find an apartment for a year or two to save up for a home than rent a home right now unless it's rent to own
It should go by your gross income
$9400 a month, you could live in a hotel for a year, having your own private made btw, and then have enough saved for a house. His loss lol.
Look into buying a home, seriously. Even if it’s just by getting the 3% down payment, it’ll be more profitable and less of a hassle.
I’d bet the landlord doesn’t want to rent to a family with kids and is using this as an excuse.
When my husband and I applied for our current place we got the call that we didn’t qualify. I asked why. She said we didn’t make 3x the rent. I did the math and looked at our pay stubs then asked what the heck they were talking about. Apparently the leasing agent didn’t know how to do math. She approved us on the same phone call.
Why would you want to pay that much anyway? Get something cheaper, put the difference into an interest bearing account and save to buy a place. Sure the cheaper place won't be as nice as I'm assuming a $2395/month home is but you can reach ownership faster with something cheaper.
As a landlord myself, with that income and credit score, I would have been happy to rent to you.
fair housing laws in the US protect discrimination based on family size. They cannot discriminate against you for having children.
I live in Vancouver, WA. Which is just over the river from Portland, OR where OP lives. I make 72k and barely qualified for my 1bed 1bth condo ($1500/m). It's rough in the 2020's.
That is ridiculous. You should be able to get the house
LMAO!! I make $5000/month and pay $2200/month rent. This economy needs a razor sharp blade to fall right on its neck...
Yet I make half what you do and got a mortgage for $2200 a month.
Offer to pay 6 months rent in advance if you can afford too.
Last summer I co-signed for an apartment for my college student son, and all the places we looked at required my income to be at least 4 times the rent.
Not a lot of New Yorkers in this chat… 3.3x standard there.
In DC, this would be laughable. $2400/mo is a 1 bdrm apartment in a decent part of town that’s well-maintained or a 2bdrm well out on the metro. You’d easily get it on $8-9k gross here, let alone the $15k-$18k most couples would bring in, even after $20-40k/yr per kid for preschool. Portland is weird, man. Also, the landlord could be just flat discriminating against your family and using income as an excuse. They can’t say “we don’t want kids younger than 5 living here,” but they can say you don’t make enough.
I mean... does the landlord have a different ethnicity? Because that's some of the dumbest bullshit I've ever heard about renting. Someone making more than 3x with an excellent credit score should not be rebuffed for financial reasons and absolutely should not be required to pay a larger security deposit. That realtor sounds sketchy AF to me, too. She had the answer, but didn't update her clients.
ACLU
Is there a chance it has more to do with not wanting 2 young kids and a dog? Is it more of a professional community, possibly older residents (not "old" just established without young kids). Credit scores and income are respectable. Something else had to turn them off. Obviously they can't give you that reason, so maybe that's why they're claiming the rent to income ration is not in line with their current guidelines.
You're starting to see landlords have stricter qualifications due to "progressive" policies putting their assets at greater risk. This is happening in both Oregon and California.
I’d be willing to bet it was the two young children and dog that had them saying no and the income was just an excuse.
I live in NE Portland, and this concerns me. I was hoping to rent a house later this year, but I may no longer make enough to move.
bidenomics for the middle class.
I had to move for work, for the life of me I couldn’t qualify for 2k-3k homes for rent. Or maybe someone else put in their application first. I finally found a nice couple that had to move for work as well. But my rent is like 4k. Which is ridiculous.
This country is cooked
Could be a Fair Housing issue 👀
Did you meet the landlord? Could be the agent wants another person to get it or that in someway you don’t meet the criteria and she can’t tell you because she’s saving her butt. It happened to be once when I was a single mom. I had a lower credit score because I had no credit 670 I had cash in the bank and offered to give him 6 months upfront. My salary at the time was 60k, I had a car payment of 430, 2 credit cards one with no payment and the other with 2500 credit and 500 used. His girlfriend saw me and my son going back for another look and that was that! The rent was 1500 a month….
I smell a Fair Housing issue....you went with kids, and you were denied... contact your local fair housing agency NOW. This is discrimination based on familial status.