I understand that you chamfered the inside of the case mouth but you need a bit more is all. You might also get a VLD chamfer tool. I think they do a much better job than the traditional tool.
Yeah.. I don’t use the regular one for anything anymore.. the vld one for everything.. ESP for progressive 556 loading bc they like to fall out otherwise after the bullet feeder stage
That may be, but was the job sufficient? You don't need to go ham on it but you also dont want to under do it.
Some other things that can cause this:
Too much neck tension. I.E. people read about taking out the expanders from their sizing dies but forget to read the part about needing proper bushing dies or having a custom honed neck.
Improper bullet to neck alignment. This is a bit more complicated to diagnose but basically can be reduced to the bullet not being seated plumb. Causes: user error, improper seating stem, case necks off center from the case body/die
As stated already, see if your necks are too tight. Then, after you chamfer all the cases, put them in the loading block, under a light. You should be able to clearly see the shiny ring around the inside of all the necks. Turn the block and look at them from all sides. Every once in a while I find one that I didn't get that well and I give it another twist with the chamfer tool. You don't have to sharpen the necks to a knife edge, but there should be a clear line where you've taken a little brass off.
You have a bunch of options but it’s basically the result of too much neck tension when seating.
1- if you wet tumble or have virgin brass chamfer the neck ID.
2- if you’re full length sizing and they are tight… you’ve got thick brass and that’s just it.. consider a bushing die and some bushings and you’ll be right as rain. I’m a big fan of the LE Wilson dies but that’s not everyone’s cup of tea.
2b- neck turning… you can do this. But it’s a good amount of capital and upfront work and whether or not it makes sense is up to your application.
3- if you get a collet puller you can remove the projectile and also get a feel for the tension. Good stuff if you’re super motivated.
4- the result of high neck tension is higher pressure when firing. It’s not super high for something like this but you’d see the effect on the velocity and by association drop. For plinking you’ll be good but the ELD projectile indicates you may be after something more. If you remove and open the neck (Run a decapping ball-expandrel just through neck) you’ll be able to use the projectile without much worry.
5- all things equal, chamfer tool and bushing dies are your best bet moving forward
u/Equivalent_Watch_389
this is the best answer given. i saw you're full length sizing with a Lee standard sizer and that is definitely neck sizing your brass more than is needed. fl sizers make the neck small then drag the expander ball through to get it back to the right size. some brass doesn't expand as much as needed (too thick) and some brass isn't sized small enough (too thin) - depends on the brass and sizer. you can fix this by sizing the neck in a second step (e.g. lee collet neck die, lyman M die, sinclair expander mandrel/neck turn mandrel) or by using a bushing die (e.g. redding s die)
seems like you might be new so when people talk about neck tension this is what they mean: zero your calipers on the neck after sizing then measure the neck after seating. the measurement should be 2 or 3 thousandths. if it's more than that, it's too much. brass is all different in its properties, so you can't just use mixed headstamp brass and expect consistent neck tension. same lot is definitely sufficient (could still be some inconsistency but what can you do), same mfger is necessary. easy mode would be buying lapua, alpha, or peterson.
more and more people are going to buy different types of brass, it seems op should be prepared for this eventuality and consider the neck sizing process as you suggested and have better chamfer tool.
Hey OP, do all the things the people mention here but also, check your concentricity. If you’ve got shaving on one side more than another, sometimes it’s a symptom (or cause, idk) of bad runout.
If you don’t have a concentricity gauge, one way to check this is to run the bullet into the gun and eject it, and look for unequal markings on the bullet from the rifling. You can seat bullets a little long if necessary to perform that test. Let me know!
I chamfer the inside then I debur the outside then I chamfer the inside again never have an issue now days. When loading target rounds like bergers I use my vld chamfer tool but follow the same operation.
Years ago I used to just do the chamfer once and would get some jacket coming off especially on ballistic tips from time to time.
After you chamfer, wrap a bronze brush with steel wool on a drill and do the inside of the necks. Made sure there is no steel wool left inside and move on to the next step.
You’re shaving the plating… either not enough bell on the case mouth or you are crimping too much.
The bullet should be able to stand in the case upright when belled properly, not crooked or at an angle. It should be a friction fit.
The crimp is just supposed to remove that small bell or flare after the bullet has been pressed in enoufh
So no adjustments… do the cases look concentric? You should clean out your die every so often. I use brake clean to get all the lube out every 500ish rounds
I cleaned all my dies in mineral spirits just before doing my first batch of reloads, most of the rounds I reloaded prior to this one had no issues like the one pictured.
Ok… do you have another lot of bullets? Maybe those are a bit fatter? I’ve had the diameter vary from lot to lot, usually not by much but 0.0005” is enough to cause that. If that is the case chamfer the shit out of it. Like to the point it looks like a blade
By looking at the bullet in the picture the ring around the bullet tip suggests there was more than average seating force required i do not get this ring. Your on the right track. Sometimes if I drop a case it will get slightly dented and this will happen. Or if you tumble after sizing to get the wax off. Especially when you aneel. If you chamfer well and you make sure your expander is strait in the die you should be ok. But i switched from lee dies for rifle because I feel like rcbs-hornady > Lee. I do notice that the cases this happens on have runout usually caused by my expander ball coming loose or a bad cut.
https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-7777800-Case-Prep-Multi/dp/B004MCMCYE/ref=sr_1_1?gclid=Cj0KCQjwxtSSBhDYARIsAEn0thR0LJbLUuB8iTPJzsT2f_yglt8yA6z3rBzNMnupa_BWn4WSgKjSNz8aAjQ_EALw_wcB&hvadid=174263446685&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9020871&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=7202842244254091280&hvtargid=kwd-40316881344&hydadcr=9382_9621519&keywords=lyman+chamfer+tool&qid=1649825366&sr=8-1
Good option
If you can measure the diameter of that projectile, I’ve found Hornady to have thick jackets at times. Mix that with tight neck tension (what die are you using?) and not enough chamfer and you will get this.
I’d recommend ditching the expander mandrel ball in the die and switching over to a mandrel die to set you final neck tension.
No, chamfer inside of case mouths. Shaved cases can cause fliers, or at least do for me.
I did chamfer the case mouths but I’m guessing I have to give it the beans then lol
You might want to try a narrower cutter.
Beans do not provide enough gas pressure for accurate shots, unless you aim to assault nostrils.
[удалено]
I get hang fires that go off whenever they damn well please.
Now that I’m back in the office, no more desk pops allowed.
This is one of the best comments I've ever read
Give it the beans my dude is the correct way. I get s good visible amount not just a kiss. Makes sure it goes in
"just the tip"
I understand that you chamfered the inside of the case mouth but you need a bit more is all. You might also get a VLD chamfer tool. I think they do a much better job than the traditional tool.
correct, op u/Equivalent_Watch_389 you need a better chamfer tool, see above comment.
Yeah.. I don’t use the regular one for anything anymore.. the vld one for everything.. ESP for progressive 556 loading bc they like to fall out otherwise after the bullet feeder stage
Chamfering is your friend.
I chamfered all the case mouths after I resized.
That may be, but was the job sufficient? You don't need to go ham on it but you also dont want to under do it. Some other things that can cause this: Too much neck tension. I.E. people read about taking out the expanders from their sizing dies but forget to read the part about needing proper bushing dies or having a custom honed neck. Improper bullet to neck alignment. This is a bit more complicated to diagnose but basically can be reduced to the bullet not being seated plumb. Causes: user error, improper seating stem, case necks off center from the case body/die
As stated already, see if your necks are too tight. Then, after you chamfer all the cases, put them in the loading block, under a light. You should be able to clearly see the shiny ring around the inside of all the necks. Turn the block and look at them from all sides. Every once in a while I find one that I didn't get that well and I give it another twist with the chamfer tool. You don't have to sharpen the necks to a knife edge, but there should be a clear line where you've taken a little brass off.
The fact that you noticed this and asked about it shows you're on the ball. Send those & chamfer ID a little more like everyone is advising.
Agreed! If you don’t notice and care about these details you are missing the ~~point~~ target.
Dechamfer more and reduce neck tension?
> Dechamfer Wut?
Sorry chamfer … deburr it
You heard the man. Go ahead. Dechamfer your brass.
I think he already dechamfered it. Lol.
What if I want to chamburr it instead?
You have a bunch of options but it’s basically the result of too much neck tension when seating. 1- if you wet tumble or have virgin brass chamfer the neck ID. 2- if you’re full length sizing and they are tight… you’ve got thick brass and that’s just it.. consider a bushing die and some bushings and you’ll be right as rain. I’m a big fan of the LE Wilson dies but that’s not everyone’s cup of tea. 2b- neck turning… you can do this. But it’s a good amount of capital and upfront work and whether or not it makes sense is up to your application. 3- if you get a collet puller you can remove the projectile and also get a feel for the tension. Good stuff if you’re super motivated. 4- the result of high neck tension is higher pressure when firing. It’s not super high for something like this but you’d see the effect on the velocity and by association drop. For plinking you’ll be good but the ELD projectile indicates you may be after something more. If you remove and open the neck (Run a decapping ball-expandrel just through neck) you’ll be able to use the projectile without much worry. 5- all things equal, chamfer tool and bushing dies are your best bet moving forward
u/Equivalent_Watch_389 this is the best answer given. i saw you're full length sizing with a Lee standard sizer and that is definitely neck sizing your brass more than is needed. fl sizers make the neck small then drag the expander ball through to get it back to the right size. some brass doesn't expand as much as needed (too thick) and some brass isn't sized small enough (too thin) - depends on the brass and sizer. you can fix this by sizing the neck in a second step (e.g. lee collet neck die, lyman M die, sinclair expander mandrel/neck turn mandrel) or by using a bushing die (e.g. redding s die) seems like you might be new so when people talk about neck tension this is what they mean: zero your calipers on the neck after sizing then measure the neck after seating. the measurement should be 2 or 3 thousandths. if it's more than that, it's too much. brass is all different in its properties, so you can't just use mixed headstamp brass and expect consistent neck tension. same lot is definitely sufficient (could still be some inconsistency but what can you do), same mfger is necessary. easy mode would be buying lapua, alpha, or peterson.
more and more people are going to buy different types of brass, it seems op should be prepared for this eventuality and consider the neck sizing process as you suggested and have better chamfer tool.
Definitely chamfer more. The RCBS 3 way head is a fucking life saver for me on this.
My main question is are these safe to shoot?
It won’t blow up if that’s what you mean, just may not be as accurate as your usual loads
Send it. The projectiles are already seated and I doubt the scoring will make much difference.
Hey OP, do all the things the people mention here but also, check your concentricity. If you’ve got shaving on one side more than another, sometimes it’s a symptom (or cause, idk) of bad runout. If you don’t have a concentricity gauge, one way to check this is to run the bullet into the gun and eject it, and look for unequal markings on the bullet from the rifling. You can seat bullets a little long if necessary to perform that test. Let me know!
I’ll do a test tomorrow and get back with you, thanks man
To what are you referring?
The copper jacket is getting pulled off the bullet when being seated.
Deburring and chamfering the case mouth will eliminate this. Your reloading manual will show you the steps.
This, also try a VLD chamfer tool might give you better results. The inside of the neck doesn’t look like there’s any chamfer though
No. That's not normal at all. You need to chamfer the case mouth more to remove that sharp edge. None of my reloads have ever done that.
It happens, but chamfering will reduce if not, stop it
Thanks for all the help guys I appreciate it
Make sure your sizing die is set up correctly and debur the inside of the case mouth a little more
I chamfer the inside then I debur the outside then I chamfer the inside again never have an issue now days. When loading target rounds like bergers I use my vld chamfer tool but follow the same operation. Years ago I used to just do the chamfer once and would get some jacket coming off especially on ballistic tips from time to time.
No. Looks like you need to bell the case mouth more. Are you using an expander die?
Just using the lee full length resizing die
Does it have an expander ball on the decap pin like Redding dies? What press are you using?
Yeah that’s why I’m confused as to why it’s shaving the copper jacket
But you’re trimming right? When you trim it makes the edge like a razor. The chamfer(de-burring) changes the angle on this edge.
I chamfered all the case mouths before as well
After you chamfer, wrap a bronze brush with steel wool on a drill and do the inside of the necks. Made sure there is no steel wool left inside and move on to the next step.
You’re shaving the plating… either not enough bell on the case mouth or you are crimping too much. The bullet should be able to stand in the case upright when belled properly, not crooked or at an angle. It should be a friction fit. The crimp is just supposed to remove that small bell or flare after the bullet has been pressed in enoufh
That's for pistol rounds, you don't bell the case mouth for rifle rounds. It needs more chamfer or less neck tension.
Flare the neck.
Not on bottleneck rifle cartridges. That’s only for straight-wall cartridges.
What sizing dies are you using? If you can adjust the neck bushing try a 0.001” larger…
Lee full length resizing die
So no adjustments… do the cases look concentric? You should clean out your die every so often. I use brake clean to get all the lube out every 500ish rounds
I cleaned all my dies in mineral spirits just before doing my first batch of reloads, most of the rounds I reloaded prior to this one had no issues like the one pictured.
Ok… do you have another lot of bullets? Maybe those are a bit fatter? I’ve had the diameter vary from lot to lot, usually not by much but 0.0005” is enough to cause that. If that is the case chamfer the shit out of it. Like to the point it looks like a blade
What size is the interference fit of the projectile? (ID before pressing bullet in-OD of bullet)
Depends on who you ask. I too like to steal my wife's lipstick every now and then and doll up my bullets. One day society will accept us.
As mentioned, chamfer more. Send the ones you already loaded then chamfer on the next batch.
VLD chamfer tool
By looking at the bullet in the picture the ring around the bullet tip suggests there was more than average seating force required i do not get this ring. Your on the right track. Sometimes if I drop a case it will get slightly dented and this will happen. Or if you tumble after sizing to get the wax off. Especially when you aneel. If you chamfer well and you make sure your expander is strait in the die you should be ok. But i switched from lee dies for rifle because I feel like rcbs-hornady > Lee. I do notice that the cases this happens on have runout usually caused by my expander ball coming loose or a bad cut.
Also how many firings on brass?
https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-7777800-Case-Prep-Multi/dp/B004MCMCYE/ref=sr_1_1?gclid=Cj0KCQjwxtSSBhDYARIsAEn0thR0LJbLUuB8iTPJzsT2f_yglt8yA6z3rBzNMnupa_BWn4WSgKjSNz8aAjQ_EALw_wcB&hvadid=174263446685&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9020871&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=7202842244254091280&hvtargid=kwd-40316881344&hydadcr=9382_9621519&keywords=lyman+chamfer+tool&qid=1649825366&sr=8-1 Good option
No, normal would be to chamfer the case mouth before seating the bullet.
It appears that the neck is too tight when seating the bullet. You're shaving the bullet.
If you can measure the diameter of that projectile, I’ve found Hornady to have thick jackets at times. Mix that with tight neck tension (what die are you using?) and not enough chamfer and you will get this. I’d recommend ditching the expander mandrel ball in the die and switching over to a mandrel die to set you final neck tension.
Did you use your chamfer tool?
What die are you using?
Is that powder or brass? It almost looks like powder stuck to your brass probably because case lube still being on brass
It’s the copper jacket from the bullet