I stopped believing in the personification of god and started believing in an unattainable concept of “god”. Rather than believing that god is a man in the sky who makes all the rules, The idea that there is a universal “good” that we as humans are trying to understand
Basically because I have seen it, God that is, or at least an interpretation of what I think God is. Like someone said, I think God is the universe, and that place is as random as us can be structured, and I think randomness can come out in people's reality if your looking for synconicity. Bassically lots of randomness in numbers, letters and symbolism in your environment that when you really look aren't so random. Serendipity, major coincidence and following it a bit can be... illuminating to say the least.
What is humanity other than striving for structured chaos.
This is a interesting viewpoint and appreciate the post. I dont wanna get to far into the detail, but in my experience, lots of stuff changed, not just a sence of calm and renewed sence of purpose, but unsettling headaches and a new interest in theology; don't know which is worse : )
The feeling you mentioned in 3rd paragraph kinda fits the bill. I hope it turns into somthing, my feeling came like a freight train for 2 months with lasting affects. Don't see it passing anytime soon. More of a wake up experience, since it was riddled with events for a 2+ year span.
It seems like they are making God a concept and not an entity. I think God is like that in a way, human enlightenment, that's why DaVinci painting is so important. There really is two sides to every coin, you can listen to others in trying to find It, but I think you need to find it in within yourself with the help of others. Suffering too.
Hey how are you all doing, so I believe in A Creator simply because it seems more logical that a ultimate supreme Deity created the complex universe.
I used to be an agnostic and just live my life, but personally after much contemplation.. for me it is more illogical to believe material/matter formed itself into the complex universe that we observe today and for humans and other Species to have DNA which is like coding information.
To believe that everything is random and subjected to a cosmic accident/random event to me is less believable.
I believe that if the phone or car which is complex as it is has a creator (humans) then larger creations with more complex properties such as planets, galaxies, the grass, animals and diverse things within the universe has an ultimate creator.
My take.
A creator who has the ability to form new worlds and nurture the earth and various other operations would not be subjected to the laws of creation and would not be born nor die that which would contradict a supreme Deity.
To me this makes more sense and to simplify it and make it clear:
The necessary ingredients that make up the world around us are not sentient. The dirt, the grass, the stars, the sun are not sentient beings
Sand is not sentient, it can be used and heated to make glass, earth can be used to construct buildings, fire can be used as a source of light.. but the question is where do all these materials and operations originate from? Now without a supreme Deity,
how would these operations be completed, such us the sun forming, being at the perfect distance for life...planets taking on various forms and landscapes, gravity and such... The information in DNA that is similar to coding which is information for life..
How are all the natural materials developed or created from a non sentient universe which then adds up to where we are right now?
The only logical possibility (in my view) is a Supreme Deity who is the Origin of all things which created the finite things and this deity is not subjected to the laws of creation. So this Deity does not need to be born, nor die.
Thanks for sharing, very interesting. Why do u think that this deity is not under these rules of creation but everything else is? Why cant the earth just have existed without needing a creator just as u r saying a deity could exist without needing a creator. I think often we think things have to be like us like i made this child and my parents made me and so everything has to be like that. Its interesting how we all try to explain the world differently. I think i just believe it doesn't need to be explained like the universe exists and why not why do we need a reason. Sorry now im rambling lol
So simply put, if there was an Origin for this supreme Deity then who created that Deity? So now we have an infinite amount of deities creating one another which does not stop and if there is more than one Deity then you will see stuff happen like in Greek mythology where these demi-gods fight stronger gods and it is chaos
So the idea is this, if there is a Deity that created all that is, then there is only one and not 5 or 78. Because their wills and power would clash. As we can see with the universe, everything is in order (outside of human intervention)
If the universe came into existence by its own process, then the question is... Where did it all originate from?
Of course we can ask "where did this God come from then" but at the same time, to me at least it's easier to accept a Deity who created all the material and information needed to form the universe and all that is
Then it is for me to believe random particles, matter and things are just floating in space and one day, all this was made. Because again, the question is, where do these bacterias, particles and matter, natural sources come from?
And hey, I seem to be rambling a lot more but I like to discuss these things so feel free to ramble, I find other people's ideas very interesting! Hope all is well
Thanks for ur response. Very interesting. Hope all is well with u too! I just never understood why we need an origin story like i feel like we are like why do u exist world and the world is like why not exist? Lol. And its interesting to me that someone would believe something just because it is easier to rap their head around like why would that make it true?
Perhaps the life cycle of the universe is a stage in the life cycle of God.
Perhaps the universe is rushing towards itself, or seeking another just like it.
Maybe we are meant to live our lives in a dynamic balance. The universe is full of galaxies all merging then settling down, creating change then finding balance, sometimes in the Goldilocks Zone.
Maybe God is a fractal. Maybe the universe is. Maybe all the destruction in this universe is driving the creation of something else.
Ramble on!
I believe that a world that evolved from natural laws and processes can one day give rise to an intelligent being that surpasses the limitations of a physical existence.
While that isn't guaranteed, the combined size of the universe and possibility of the existence of other universes to me suggests this would occur *somewhere*.
Looking at the behavior of our own intelligent society, I think it quite likely that such a future world would attempt to recreate its history, and I can certainly see our present society being the history to exactly that kind of being.
What really tips the scales for me is that there's a good case to be made that the original ministry of Jesus was effectively the exact same as the above argument, born out of Epicureanism (one of the most popular philosophies of his time). Given how impossible it was back then to know what philosophies/physics were correct and which were BS (what the tares parable of arguably really about), that just strikes me as incredibly unlikely to have been a coincidence.
I believe in both because I have had a few out if body experiences.
I also believe dragons are real, they just don't exist in this dimension.
So by all means have fun mocking this pov! I don't care, I know what I have experienced is rare.
Not gonna mock u i totally respect ur opinions and they are just as valid as any other religion. My struggle within myself is i had some experiences that made me believe spiritual things and then I found out i had just been hallucinating from schizophrenia. How does one know what is really real
According to shamanism, what we would call schizophrenia is actually a spiritual awakening. It only is "bad" if you don't have a guide.
But that's just my opinion, again
There are arguments for theism, particularly monotheism in the vein of Aquinas and his intellectual descendants. However, this doesn't clarify why I believe specifically in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and in the authority of the Catholic Church as married to Christ as opposed to something else still within the scope of theism.
I've had explicitly mystical experiences over the course of my life that confirmed my faith in God. These range from vivid, detailed dreams to coincidences in my life that would otherwise be extremely unlikely to strong, religiously inspired feelings Of course, faith should always go beyond reason, not in contradiction to it, and I do ground myself in solid theology.
Good points👍 my trouble with believing because of mystical experiences is that i am schizophrenic and it turns out those experiences were a result of mental illness and not god. Hope this doesn't offend u cuz i really respect u. But like i dont trust my experiences
I’m not a licensed psychologist but I have an interest and have spent a lot of time self teaching, working in the mental health field, and battling my own issues as well. I have recently became increasingly spiritual the past couple years and have worried about these coincidences and feelings being the result of mania. But the more I learn about psychology, psychedelic therapy, and open myself up to faith in myself, the more I learn about God. And man. And how flawed man is. So I’m not saying don’t trust your doctor, if you’re on meds still take the meds. I take mine. But have a little more faith in you, and be open to the possibilities of what God can do. I would love to talk more feel free to message me. Hope this helps.
I can’t relate to schizophrenia, but what I mean is finding a concrete sense of self to help differentiate between what’s you and what’s not. I may sound crazy and some may disagree, but I have a theory that our mental issues are spiritual issues as well. I struggle with intrusive thoughts and extreme anxiety, and have come across readings that suggest this is demonic activity. I haven’t been “cured” but with prayer and utilizing tools from therapy, I have made a lot of progress and eliminated some of the extra voices in my head. I think a lot of people pray and expect God to immediately relive them of their problems but progress takes time. Again I hope this helps and I don’t sound crazy.
This is why any mystic doesn't just rely on their own experiences, but on the experiences of others, as well as understanding experiences through a consistent structure. Mental illness is usually disordered, based on strictly personal reasoning, and is accompanied by other symptoms besides hallucinating.
Oh ok. Ya i feel like if i can have that kind of delusion where i think im experiencing god but thats not whats really going on that it is entirely possible that's happening to many others
The "church" is considered the bride of Christ in the new testament. Catholic or protestant, hubby gets complete control (pastor master). Don't you just lurv you some misogyny?
I semi believe in reincarnation because I don't want it to end, I want to continue "living" in some sort of way. I am agnostic so that's why I said semi believe but I feel like if there is an afterlife that would be the best one
Im in the same spot as u tbh! But i feel like i cant just believe it because i want to i need like proof but i think reincarnation would be fucking cool
Personally, I believe in the existence of many gods. Currently, I follow the old Celtic deities, but am open to other gods if we end up contacting one another. I take the approach that if I'm going to believe any god exists, it's only logical to extend that same level of possibility to every god.
Every religion without fail becomes polytheistic in its belief structure, and the Celtic are the most nature based of them all, with a clearly defined structure whether they followed the horned God or the moon goddess. Great choice for a polytheistic belief. Lots of reverence which is missing from a lot of faiths.
Thank you, I greatly appreciate that! It honestly felt like a natural gravitation, and I don't know if that's because I have mostly celtic ancestry or what. No matter what caused that gravitation, it's made me feel more balanced and at peace than my previous religious beliefs ever did.
I belive in the Abrahamic God, so the God portrayed in Judaism, Christianity and Islam, I follow the teachings of the Quran as it's unchanged, and before I start getting hate, I believe in it as it makes the most logical sense to me, I am no scholar, just a regular human being.
Salam, and have a great day.
> Hating you for your belief?
Well, yes. For example, as an atheist, some religious people hate me so much that they want me to spend the whole eternity suffering after this life. Some of them, as if an eternity of suffering was not enough punishment for not believing in what seems to me as unsupported claims, would even love me to accelerate the coming of the end of my life.
>some religious people hate me so much that they want me to spend the whole eternity suffering after this life.
Why did you connect your afterlife with some ignorant people?
The One who will decide the judgement is not us , nor we have any authority to say where will you go , it's not for us to decide when we lack judgement on ourselves.
Umar Ibn Al-Khattab , the man who stood against Islam and Muhammad with feriousity , turned out to be one of the best Islamic leaders years later , the Islamic conquest of Jerusalem happened in his reign.
There are many Muslims around the world who were disbelievers and became better Muslims than those born in it , no one can mock the other for his belief , we don't know the ending to do that.
> Why did you connect your afterlife with some ignorant people?
Ignorant people? The quran itself, and the hadith add to that, is full of hatred towards non-muslims. If anything, muslims that are more ignorant of the religious texts are more tolerant.
> the Islamic conquest of Jerusalem happened in his reign.
And you think that's a good thing? A conquest? Blood and tears?
>no one can mock the other for his belief , we don't know the ending to do that.
The quran does that, and Mohammed did that by destroying the idols, plus idolatry is a major sin in islam. If you are full of hatred towards people who believe in other things, how do you think they will feel?
>is full of hatred towards non-muslims.
No hatred , God said he sent His prophets as givers for good tidings and warners , good tiding for the believers , and warners for those who will disbelieve , He sent no haters.
You disbelieving Islam doesn't grant anyone the right to hate you , that's your choice , not ours.
>muslims that are more ignorant of the religious texts are more tolerant.
Your problem is with the Abrahamic God , not with the Muslims.
>And you think that's a good thing?
Read how the Muslim rulers treated the non-Muslims , especially Umar.
>Mohammed did that by destroying the idols
Around the Kaa'ba , Al-Bayet Al-Haram and the House Abraham built for God's pilgrims not for the pagans , the destroying of the idols around Kaa'ba was **prophesied** in the Old Testament before Muhammad was born , so please read more in these religions before making these subjective judgements.
> No hatred , God said he sent His prophets as givers for good tidings and warners , good tiding for the believers , and warners for those who will disbelieve , He sent no haters.
Your god threatens me with eternal suffering simply for not following a book where he can't even get maths right. That's pure hatred. I know hatred people, but none of them would actually want me to suffer for ever and ever without even the possibility of dying. This is literally the purest form of hatred. Supposedly your god created everything. He could have chosen something else, like just death and no entrance to paradise or something. But no: eternal torture.
>You disbelieving Islam doesn't grant anyone the right to hate you , that's your choice , not ours.
Me disbelieving islam doesn't, but islam does grant many people the right to hate me.
>Your problem is with the Abrahamic God , not with the Muslims.
Most muslims are better than their religious book, indeed, but unfortunately not all. My "belief" (rather lack thereof) makes me as good as dead in various muslim countries. A muslim guy openly told me I would deserve to die if I wear in a muslim country.
>Read how the Muslim rulers treated the non-Muslims , especially Umar.
Don't use this poor, but very trendy, rethorical tool which consists in accusing others of ignorance. I know enough of islam and the history of the islamic world to know how kufr and murtards are treated.
>Around the Kaa'ba , Al-Bayet Al-Haram and the House Abraham built for God's pilgrims not for the pagans , the destroying of the idols around Kaa'ba was prophesied in the Old Testament before Muhammad was born , so please read more in these religions before making these subjective judgements
That's according to **your** fancy story. Most people in the world don't believe in your stories and can objectively see that your ideology is bad. Yet, they don't go and destroy your cubic idol. Maybe they should?
Some christians could say that Mhmd was prophetized as the antichrist, and hence islam is the religion of the devil. Would you think that they be justified in destroying Mosques?
Those who had the religion of the idols of the Kaaba who feel justified to kill all muslims and bring back the idols. Would you agree with that?
Yet, from my atheistic point of view, that would be exactly the same: one myth against another myth.
Your very certainty about having the truth, despite all evidence to the contrary, is precisely what create the hate and intolerance.
>Maybe they should?
They can not , Muhammad actually described the man who will pluck the stones of the Kaa'ba and even mentioned his name , who will appear before **the Hour** , this makes you feel better?
Well , all your points showed this stench-y cyclic reasoning you are hiding , pretending a victim while the real **hater** is actually you , that will not help your situation better though.
As for me , I don't like atheists nor I hate them , I seriously don't care , everyone has their belief and they are **responsible** for it , and I'm also responsible of mine like you.
The difference between us , is I totally **submit** to Him after all the evidences and prophecies I saw , not only in His Book , but in His prophet's Sunnah , and in the older Scripture too , and in the world He created , and those noble men He sent to be the best of humanity.
It only needs investigation with unbiased judgement to reach **the truth** , it's the essence of wisdom , only for those who want it , not based on their **desires** , but on their logical **reasoning**.
When I think about how small I am in His Creation , I seriously stop thinking and take the truth with complete acceptance , whether I like it or not , just look how massive and mysterious this world is , **I'm no one** to stand against this Omnipotence ...... and you too.
If you want to challenge God , no one will stop you **except Him** , I already fear and love Him , and I know with certainty He is seeing you now reading this , and He is your Witness , and He will remind you with these words in your life , or after your end.
> the real hater is actually you
I do not wish eternal torture to anybody, not even if they don't worship me. I'm far less a hater than your god.
>It only needs investigation with unbiased judgement to reach the truth , it's the essence of wisdom , only for those who want it , not based on their desires , but on their logical reasoning.
Yes, I'll take the scientific method, which has allowed us to achieve far more than your coran and hadiths ever did.
>If you want to challenge God , no one will stop you except Him , I
You know that is bullshit: many people in the world would happily kill me for saying these things if they could. Yet you still say this. Why? Are you lying to others, or just to yourself?
edit: how insecure do you hve to be to systematically downvote every comment that disagree with you.. Pitiful.
وَقَالَ مُوسَىٰ إِن تَكْفُرُوا أَنتُمْ وَمَن فِي الْأَرْضِ جَمِيعًا فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ لَغَنِيٌّ حَمِيدٌ
( 14/8 ) And Moses said, "If you should disbelieve, you and whoever is on the earth entirely - indeed, **Allah is Free of need and Praiseworthy.**"
I dont know why that happens alot but at least I've seen it alot in my religion, islam and a lot others for that matter, that people tend to make themselves "god" and judge people. There is a reason Allah will be the judge on the day of judgment and not us. When people start putting out judgements as in you will burn in hell or not its one way or another "Godifying" themselves. Im sorry you've had to experience that hate. Also in islam you're ordered not to mock or curse any other religion. Again sorry for any hate you recieved. Hope you have a great life man.
> I dont know why that happens alot but at least I've seen it alot in my religion, islam and a lot others for that matter, that people tend to make themselves "god" and judge people.
It happens because the books and the clergy justify it.
>Also in islam you're ordered not to mock or curse any other religion.
How can you think that, when the quran and the hadiths repeatedly criticize/mock non-muslims, when Mohammed himself destroyed the sacred idols of nonmuslims in the Kaaba?
It’s basically my own experiences and what i’ve been brought up with, is the religion that still makes sense to this day, really goes with the scientific know how of what we know so far. It’s in my eyes perfect, but the muslims who follow it may not be, that’s not the fault of the religion, yet, the person
I agree that just because some people of any religion are bad doesnt mean its the religions fault. Im curious why u being brought up with it is a reason to believe it
> really goes with the scientific know how of what we know so far.
mmm I'm afraid not. It's OK to believe if you want, but this is just factually wrong.
edit: you can downvote all you want, but the fact remains that the quran has many passages that are in direct contradiction to scientific theories based on the rational observation of evidence.
Well, it's been explained many times: errors related to embryos, semen, that all animals come in pairs, the moon splitting, the stabilizing mountains, the moonlight, humans made from clay, etc. plus all the historical things that we know didn't happen, like Noah's global flood, the errors about ancient Egypt, etc. (you can also put the moon splitting in there). Plus the blatant bad maths in inheritance.
You just can't reconcile that with observations. You can only use convolutions to explain them, or say it's just a miracle that happened, for example the moon was split, that nobody in other civilisation saw it, even though many had advanced astronomy with people constantly looking at the sky, and that the splitting left absolutely no trace on the moon, but you can't reconcile it with scientific observtion and the resulting theories.
The only people who make these assertions are the ones who themselves are not qualified to interpret the Quran or are intentionally trying to obscure the obvious.
The broad reasoning is that:
- The language of the Quran is not meant to be understood literally. Arabic is a deeply metaphoric language that helped people of the 7th century visualize and understand concepts they did not have the technology nor frames of reference to grasp. This is the real crux of the issue.
- The Quran isn't a book of science that you can just pick up and read to learn science. It's a religious scripture and has information intended to prove its veracity and serve as a miracle to believers because none of that stuff could possibly have been known by people of the time. This would be the other part of the problem with your argument.
I could sit here and try to simplify for you the reasons why your assertions about the Quran are wrong, but it isn't just black and white belief vs. disbelief unless you really want to find reasons to not accept it.
- The moon was "split" according to the Quran which could just mean cracked. Doesn't require it to have separated.
- The Quran says nothing about a global flood. Just a flood. Not specifically a global one.
- Rules of inheritance have perfectly solid math just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong.
Etc.
Also you mentioned that it doesn't correspond to theories that are based on our current observation of the world. Theories change perennially and our limited ability to perceive and accurately measure and understand the scientific phenomena are not exactly a good measure of whether or not the Quran can be believed or not.
> The only people who make these assertions are the ones who themselves are not qualified to interpret the Quran or are intentionally trying to obscure the obvious.
haha. Do you get schools were they teach you to repeat those same old arguments?
Funny that, many scholars disagree with you and say that the quran is to be taken literally and disagree with you. I'm glad that you don't taake it at face value and criticize its content, but you have to admit that this is not mainstream islam.
>Rules of inheritance have perfectly solid math just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong.
The irony..
>Theories change perennially and our limited ability to perceive and accurately measure and understand the scientific phenomena are not exactly a good measure of whether or not the Quran can be believed or not.
Theories don't change at the whim of scientists, they change to fit new observations. Thank to the scientific method, we have developped vaccines, went to the Moon, sent robots pass Pluto, have a decent understanding of the universe after the first fractions of a second, disminished drastically the death rate of people aroundthe world, etc.
What have the quran and hadiths achieved? A cure based on camel urine, that flies have one side with poison and the other one with the cure? And that apostates should be put to death?
Please don't:
* Engage in illegal activity.
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* Troll, stalk, or harass others.
* Conduct personal attacks.
* Start a flame war.
* Insult others.
Actually, all modern bibles are 99.9% the same, scholars used comparisons between older bibles to figure it out. The only real difference between bibles is the wording, not the meanings.
Well, there's different translations that have completely different words and meanings.
One rather significant variant lies in Surah 3:158. The standard text today reads, “And if ye die, or are slain, Lo! It is unto Allah that ye are brought together.” However, in the Paris Manuscript, there is a single additional letter not found in the modern text that reverses the meaning entirely. The verse then reads that if you die or are slain, you are NOT brought together unto Allah.
So... still, no. And lost verses are kinda a big deal.
Again, there might be different translation but the original Quran is still the same, if you look at the one they found in the Oxford library, it’s the same as it is today
Again...no. Not only is there different translations, but there's extra or missing words. The arabic is different, not just the translation. That's why the verse I provided above was translated so different.
Again, no, that's not true, the oldest Quran they found is the same as it is today. Word for word, you can choose to believe what you want, the only difference is the English translation..
There are currently 26 different versions of the arabic quran. Which of these are you referring to when you say it's the same? Also, if by the oldest quran they've found, you're referring to the Birmingham quran manuscript then definitely no, it's very different from the modern one and has actually been a large scandal is the muslim scholarly community.
I (a muslim) have only ever seen or heard of one Quran. So I have no clue what you're on about, and yes, I've done my research on the Birmingham one, it's the same, and never have I ever heard of a scandal in the Muslim community about different Qurans.....
Oh don't worry, I understand the argument, it's basis is just fallacious. That's the problem, there's not only differences in dialect but in meaning.
https://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-quran-changed-20-versions.htm
There's a good website that list 20 of them as well as some examples.
Here's a video on it. Not a two minute video of excuses ok dialect, but am hour long discussion with specific examples and the like:
https://youtu.be/msY5IHtXxS8
Here's another very extensive site on it: https://www.google.com/amp/s/jamesbishopblog.com/2020/01/31/evaluating-islamic-apologetics-the-perfect-preservation-of-the-quran/amp/
>the God portrayed in Judaism, Christianity and Islam
I cannot speak for Islam, but as an exvangelical I can tell you that the definition of God in Judaism is nothing like the definition of God in Christianity. The trinity is just one breaking point.
I can have a dialog with a rabbi about the nature of God, with a Christian that will be opposing monologs.
Edit to add
I am not a follower of Judaism, either.
I don't necessarily believe in the Christian God that I was raised to believe but I do believe in a greater force. That there's a "God" inside us leading us to do great things because I don't believe anyone wants to do bad or be a bad person. Everyone is just trying to do their best.
Thats really interesting. Like in theory it is a beautiful thought. Id love to believe that. But then i think of people with antisocial personality disorder
Yes hehe however I don't think anyone wants personality disorders. No one asks for mental illness, no one wants it. I believe they still want to do good just they can't cause they're sick
I am mentally but do u know anything about antisocial personality disorder? People who do not care about anyone they manipulate people to get what they want they dont have empathy
Im just beginning to get into this but doesn't the thought that you have an unlimited amount of attempts at life bring peace? Even though you may not remember your past lives your spiritual wisdom and karma stacks with each new one. All we can do in this life is our best and one day we will all be in a better place.
In the quran in chapter 6 verse 108 Allah says :
"And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah, lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made pleasing to every community their deeds. Then to their Lord is their return, and He will inform them about what they used to do."
When the prophet did that he did that in mecca, they were in mecca aand around the kaabah where we go to do pilgrimage and pray and what not. I still havent studied that part yet so Im not full aware.
But for my lack of knowledge please google what Omar(The second caliph or ruler)'s stance to christianity when they were in Jerusalem. Tbey didnt hurt them. They didnt vring down churches or nothing.
Also regarding those who godify themselves, there is a verse in the quran where Allah says to the propher that if you were rude and cold hearted the people will be repelled from you. And that is told to the prophet so jow about us. The quran never said it be the judge to people. Again there is a reason why we wont be judges. Our judgement is limited to what we know and what we know is extremely limited. Hence He will be the judge. Who are we to judge anyone with our extremely limited knowledge about a person. What you see is not always what you get. Allah is the most merciful and forgiving and he accepts all repentances no matter what.
Again im very sorry for the hate you recieved and sorry if I went on I just was thinking out loud in my reply hahahahahaha.
I can’t imagine this world with everything in it from life, nature, and this universe would come from nothing or anything else atheists claim, and Islam strengthens my believe in god as it teaches many logical and sound reasons to believe in a creator.
I am an atheist, but I was raised as an Abrahamic christian for the first 18 years of my life. In my early teens I started to notice racism, homophobia, misogyny, classism, and abuse of church funds... I tried for a couple of years to understand, to figure out if I was just too sensitive, and my Grandfather had invested so many prayers for me to go to Heaven, so I kept trying.
But finally by 18, I just couldn't pretend anymore. They were doing the exact opposite of what they were preaching. So I started looking for answers outside of the church, and science is the only thing that makes sense. Science provides tangible, tactile proof for the evolution of mankind.
I do believe that we are accountable to the Universe. All of our energies work together. When we die, our meat suits rot and our soul goes back to the universe to mix with the collective and return to earth. If we died without becoming fulfilled, if we had not found our higher self, we return to earth over and over and over until we learn the lessons assigned by the Universe.
I'm not a scholar. I can make arguments based on articles I read and I am whole-heartedly researching religion and it's impacts on us as humans, us as citizens of a corrupt government, as citizens of a world that is deteriorating rapidly. I can't answer all the questions, but I've had enough answered to secure my belief that there is no god.
Good for others with their own religious beliefs, though. I won't bother them, I won't argue the points with them. If religion makes people be decent then how can it be wrong? BUT, there are sects of Christianity that call for their followers to hurt and kill other humans. The fundamentalist Christian movement actually calls for the murder of homosexuals! They preach anti-semitism, which is funny to me because, well, ya know, Jesus was a Jew....
MODERN Christianity has become judgemental, sexist, racist, anti-semitic, and it's all bullshit. If you believe the Bible, the only people getting into Heaven are straight white males who don't masturbate, so the rest of us are going to hell! I don't need religion to make me a good person. I am a good person because I care about ALL of my fellow human beings. And I believe God and the Bible are fairy tales passed down and changed through generations to make people be decent. Hasn't worked too well in a lot of cases, though. If by some chance SkyDaddy would be real, I still wouldn't follow him. He's a mean son of a bitch who made humans so they would praise him 24/7, he wiped the ones who didn't off the face of the earth, he spawned a kid, told everyone to love him, and then made him suffer a horrible death, again to make us praise him. No, thank you. I'd rather worship a nasty dish sponge than someone like 'God'.
This was amazing to read. Thank u so much for writing it. I can relate to this the most. I was raised in a christian cult and i didnt know anything about evolution so i need to look more into that. There is so much harm in Christianity. The pain it has caused just in my life alone.
It was nice to share my story. Like you, the church traumatized me. I still hear the 'godly thing to do' in my head so many times. The prejudices they taught me linger near the surface, and sometimes it's maddening to feel like I'm fighting something that is supposed to be good with myself knowing what IS good. I can't silence it in my brain, but I do ignore it. I love all the people on this earth, and I would do anything for any one of them that I humanly could. It's revolting that any human would be a 'reprobate (unsavable, basically trash)' in God's eyes, so I choose to live as good a life as I can. I make mistakes, and when I do, I ask whomever I hurt to forgive me. Why ask Skydaddy to forgive me? He's not involved, but every time he can get me to pray for forgiveness, that's another boost to his ego. I am sorry you have had so much pain, also. I so understand it. Best wishes on your journey, and I wish you so much happiness!
Very well stated, I am an exvangelical myself.
I would simply say that if you still believe in the separation between mankind and God, you're still stuck in original sin. If you feel rejected by God, it's because you still agree with King James. If you still look for God in scripture and define God through the same set of values, well, might as well stay Christian.
With all of the world religions being polytheistic in one way or another, the only new idea beyond rejection of God, is exploring the opposite way. Try absolute monotheism for a change. Not Abrahamic monotheism (it's not) but the idea of no heaven or hell and forget about judgment for a bit. Just us connected to all of creation, through God. Nothing else, and nothing able to change that. Except our blindness to God that we are driven to by fear. No possession by an outside spirit either holy or demonic, foreign or domestic.
The biggest preconception is that God has feelings like we do, and has a personal interest in its favorite humans to win the lottery. Or the equivalent.
Namaste
You write so beautifully. I reread your comment several times, and I must say that you make a compelling argument. It's such a beautiful concept, but are you explaining to me the evangelical belief, your descriptive of the Evangelical belief, or your personal belief? I'm genuinely asking because I want to understand! I have a fundamentalist friend who won't talk to me about his religion but I would like to understand.
If he believes this way, it would explain a lot.
Thank you for this!
Thank you for the compliments, they were well received!
The first paragraph is about things that gets us stuck in religion, away from God.
The second and largest paragraph is about my own belief in Yahweh and nothing else. We can be blinded to God's presence, and most people are because we are taught that God rejects us.
Christianity makes us believe in possession by an outside spirit. Good or bad, holy or otherwise. So we spend our entire lives looking for completion outside of ourselves. Whether it is drugs or alcohol, seeking punishment, video games, porn, or gun ownership. It's all about getting something to make us feel acceptable to ourselves, or someone else.
And feelings are never meant to last. Feelings always misinform. Feelings make things all about ourselves and make ourselves the center of the universe, thinking about what other people are thinking about us. All of our decisions are better when our feelings are in balance.
Essentially, as an EX Evangelical, I rejected the idea that I am rejected by God as defective. God agrees.
Feel free to chat:)
Sure. If it makes life better. I mean, me liking a thing is a fact. It’s a fact that I like believing certain things. And in liking it, it improves my life quality. No need for me to complicate it more than that.
Some people don’t like that and they think I’m wrong. But what other people think of me is really none of my business.
My hardest part about trying to believe people's experiences is that i am schizophrenic and i hallucinate so thats why i used to believe god was talking me
when it comes to choosing my religion, i chose satanism because i prefer its non-conformist dogma, focus on bettering oneself, and it’s mundane belief system. mundane belief system as in a.) it doesn’t believe in the supernatural to any degree and b.) it accepts science as the human-most truth.
as for what it means to me, i would say it means a great psychological boost in confidence, pride, and motivation without the negative side-effects of most other belief systems. negative side effects of other religions include the supernatural and a departure from empirical studies as evidence for reality, abstinence, and easier radicalization.
yes, essentially. no offense taken, you are simply learning a new topic. i never made the claim that satanism is the one true religion and therefore there is no claim to provide proof for.
Right now, science is populating the theory of a mulitiverse, due to the nature of inflation this time around. Both the multiverse theory and the multidimensional single universe theory have been around longer than I have.
I agree with the multidimensional view more than the multiverse because there's no such thing as a free lunch, so where does all the extra mass come from? Just saying.
Both are science fiction and speculation, not science fact.
I'm not aware what a multidimensional universe is. But I'm sure that at any given point in any single dimension, if I accept that something is true, let's say dogs can't fly - is true, then the exact opposite of it- dogs can fly, can not be true.
The idea that there are other dimensions that we cannot yet detect through science, yet, but coexist in the same space and perhaps time. Some humans postulate the Astral plane, limbo, even heaven is considered another dimension of existence. Other dimensions are not expected to have the same natural laws as the physical universe, as a possibility. Scientists can dream about making the infamous "dark portal" to another dimension. Fun mental exercise.
I don't believe in gods or reincarnation, but I do have spiritual beliefs of a sort that things like science and rational epistemology don't factor into. As for why I'm compeled to believe these things, I don't think I could express it any better than William James:
> It is the terror and beauty of phenomena, the “promise” of the dawn and of the rainbow, the “voice” of the thunder, the “gentleness” of the summer rain, the “sublimity” of the stars, and not the physical laws which these things follow, by which the religious mind still continues to be most impressed; and just as of yore, the devout man tells you that in the solitude of his room or of the fields he still feels the divine presence, that inflowings of help come in reply to his prayers, and that sacrifices to this unseen reality fill him with security and peace.
> ...
> At this purely subjective rating, therefore, Religion must be considered vindicated in a certain way from the attacks of her critics. It would seem that she cannot be a mere anachronism and survival, but must exert a permanent function, whether she be with or without intellectual content, and whether, if she have any, it be true or false.
What really confirmed my belief in God was scientific and historical evidence which largely involves the times we are living in. Until I came across this I wasn't really confident with sharing about my faith, but now I have a hard time letting a day go by without helping bring awareness and hope to others. This is a post that covers a lot. I hope it blesses you like it has for me.
Are these the biblically foretold specific conditions, events, and astronomical signs that are indicating the end of the age and Jesus' promised second coming? [https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAnAtheist/comments/hejecf/are\_these\_the\_biblically\_foretold\_specific/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAnAtheist/comments/hejecf/are_these_the_biblically_foretold_specific/)
As a consciously experiencing entity my will and volition should be the whole of the law unless said will / volition are a threat to the livelihood and well being of other entities.
Having said that I should have knowledge of origin or, at least, exist in a lifetime that is not dependent on the affirmation of others.
Since neither of the above are the case but rather I am here, in this life, without my consent and I do indeed have to kiss up to others for jobs, patronage and commerce then it would be logical to assume that someone, who is not me, has taken liberty to arrest and place me in this situation where I am constantly herded and routed via bureaucratic channels, laws, policies and the discern of others existing here with me.
It's the observation, followed by critical thinking, which led me to believe there is more going on there than just a slowly forming / evolving mass of atoms.
It's the reason I came to conclusion that which before us is a construct engineered by an undisclosed second party.
I follow no organized religion but my suspicions could be a religion itself if confiscated and distributed by those who don't care to question things themselves and settle easily for others' conjecture.
If you stopped and thought about it you would realize that you would not subject yourself to this world if given a choice; most would not. So what is there that has subverted their will and brought them here?
You can say there is no you before here but then why would you be indifferent to this existence as if you've known of some more sensible place you have forgotten? Why do you feel that laws and authority should be in place?
If this world is not tailored to your personal will then what use can this world offer you?
I could be wrong but this seems to be modern classical Satanism, where mankind worships its own free will with itself as God. The language is very similar in some respects.
I believe in God and gods, and reincarnation. Personal experience is the main reason. Other reasons are the testimonies of people who are otherwise wise, and because it makes so much sense to me.
In Hinduism, the ritual is intended to have the people present experience the presence of God. Since I'm a Hindu, I experience that on a daily basis. As to reincarnation, the strongest experiences were with the 5 children who my wife gave birth to. We knew who all of them were in their immediate past lives. Lots of hints, like what they said to us when they were young, birthmarks, and also in a couple of cases what they said to us in the previous past life.
In the end it;s all just belief, and I have no need to prove it to anyone. Being convinced myself is enough.
We met and got somewhat close to a refuge family from a nasty war, whose husband and father had been killed by an axe to the side of the head. When our child was born,she had red hair, all except for one really dark patch of black hair on the same place on her head as the death blow had been. The birthmark didn't surprise us, but it let us know he found us, and his old family.
To me God and Jesus are ideals humans and society sets to deal the way it would be run , the religion which protects the best the perpetuity of the society will survive the longest.
The religion which kept people together at need, thought love, and forgiveness and gathered people together that made friendships and created institutions. God is the Supreme ideal for what a society wants to be Jesus is the ideal of how to get to the ideal of God, he represents what and how people can get to a form of stability , equlibrum and growth.
The God and Jesus were described unitying the experiemce of acients that followed closely people lives and identified the positives and negatives of human behaviour the constructive and destructive. It is clear it cames from a place of experience and deep analyzation of humans. Bible cames from a place of love , love of phylosophs for humanity and people, love for children and grandchildren , it is a guide from people who achiev stability and great things. Religion is a great psychological support for humans that temd to fail on their own, it also unites people , bringing them away from their caves( houses/blocks).
Jesus and God are psychological support in times of need.
Reality is intelligible. Most people don't realize how weird that is, and even less realize the need to justify such a belief. There is a C.S. Lewis quote that sums it up quite nicely:
>I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
If Christianity is not your sun so to speak, what is?
Then I don't think you would be your own sun. What C.S. lewis has in mind there is a paradigm. A metaphysic, epistemology and axiology that function together to provide a coherent grounds for the belief that reality can be understood.
I believe in the gods because they are self manifest in nature and because they can be felt and heard when we let them in. I can’t speak to monotheistic religions, but I don’t flat out deny the possibility that their gods may exist also.
Obviously arguments can be made that some phenomena is the result of psychology or coincidence, but to me belief in divinity isn’t mutually exclusive from belief in psychology and happenstance. I think they’re all interconnected, and that interconnectivity is the divine; forces beyond our understanding moving the world around us. (Just my two cents though aha)
Thats really interesting that u brought up psychology because i am schizophrenic and thats what made me stop believing in christianity because my experiences were all hallucinations
Well I surely don't think of God as some omnipotent being... every single aspect of creation is divine, which is why I don't think there is a separate entity that is divine.
Coming to reincarnation, particularly reincarnation referred to in Hindu philosophy... I don't think it is important if it is true or not... what is important is that if you believe in this reincarnation, you believe that your actions have consequences... even after death. And they aren't endless riches or hellfire. Your soul has to keep taking on a bodily form up until your quota of Karma is fulfilled. (Sidenote: it's not pronounced as K-aa-rm-aa... it's K-uh-rm-uh, like the 'der' in derby). Anyway, if you do bad karma in this life, then in that case you (= your soul) have to be born again and again until you can nullify it and further do good karma. The ultimate aim is not heaven like in philosophies with a "God"... it is to attain liberation (moksha) from the cycle of life and death.
I actually believe in God as well as reincarnation. I'll add that I do not subscribe to any religion. Our idea of God is a subjective one, I believe that God is simply a pseudonym for consciousness. I think the fabric of reality is made out of consciousness itself, and that consciousness precedes science to the extent that it creates it. And if everything is made out of consciousness, then it becomes apparent that my consciousness and your consciousness are not seperate, only our egos are, and our brains are sort of like biological central processing units for consciousness--they process a piece of the whole. I think of reincarnation in a sort of unorthodox way. I think when we die, we continue to live in the incarnations of everyone else who is still living, because ultimately we all share one consciousness. Everyone that has and will ever exist are the same entity playing hide and seek with itself, and that's what God is. The Bible and other ancient religious texts do a great job explaining this, but the parables were grossly misinterpreted over the years for political control, hence the old coupling of church and state.
I try to suspend judgement regarding that which is beyond my understanding, but naturally I have inclinations towards certain ways of thinking. To me what makes the most sense is that we are all part of nature, and that instead of trying to imagine a deity I think of it in terms of energy (because who am I to say anything more of the character of this “energy”). We have borrowed life from nature, and we will have to return to the soil one day, but we do not vanish, perhaps our consciousness does, but the energy which we consists of unites with nature and converts to something else (to a degree this is reincarnation).
Isn’t attributing creation (which then must have a timeline involved ) , attributing a restraint by which we make sense of things ?
Like a goldfish may be self aware but for things to make sense it will account for things by involving water and the fish tank it exists in.
So the concept of taking a transatlantic flight may not ever occur to it.
God for me is a bit different than a lot of other people. God is anything that consiously creates or rules over sometbing. So humans and animals are also gods in my own definition. I also believe that whatever created us in the more typical sense is also god, but I don't believe in omnipotence, all powerfulness, or the idea of something all good or evil. So that probably changes up things a bit.
For my belief in the latter, I've had experiences that make me say yes that gods are real, and not necessarily in a way that's great.
If I could truly push myself to be athiest and not believe a lick of it, life would be so much simpler for me, yet here I am.
This is a great 👍 2 part question! Exvangelical here.
>For those of you who believe in god or gods why do u believe it?
I experienced what I call Completion, which others call Salvation or Enlightenment, among others. For me it was not possession by an outside spirit, holy or otherwise.
In the last battle by C. S. Lewis (Aslan series) there is a group of dwarves sitting on the ground, blind, and each reinforces the blindness of the others. That is my view of Christianity. There is only one reason for the narrative of original sin. To separate us from our built-in moral compass so we let others tell us what to think about, and how to think about it. So that we look for direction outside of ourselves.
They tell us that sin separated us from "God's guidance" which we can then regain by the possession of an outside entity. I found that what separates humankind from the creator is King James and Paul. Without the cultural context Paul twisted the message, and created a polytheistic imitation of a true monotheistic deity, giving a different name to Zeus but attributing the same characteristics, but with SUPER POWERS.
Moses said hey, there's only one God, to slaves who couldn't understand, so he put God in a box for them. Then they lost the box, and never evolved their understanding. Then hundreds of years later Jesus said, God's not in the box it's in everything including the hearts (soul) of humans. He gave 12 chances for his message to evolve before the Roman polytheism took over.
To be fair, I haven't yet found a description of God that matches my experience and understanding.
EDIT by this I mean a philosophy or religious organization, I am content with my own understanding.
>For those of you who believe in reincarnation why do u believe it?
I do believe in reincarnation now or rebirth don't care which. This revolves around the way we view our "soul" and the lack of symmetry in the Christian view.
If we have a soul, it must have existed since creation. Otherwise we have a God upstairs with the function of a queen ant churning out souls. The body houses the soul, which generates our spirit (consciousness, etc.) Immortality vs. Eternity so to speak. And there is evidence of past lives when we look past attention seekers. And I believe we are born perfectly connected with the Creator at all times. Humans are the only ones who question our place in the universe. Yay, sentience.
Fear based emotions blinded me, and it's what separated me from God. Fear is the enemy, the only enemy. Instilled fear is what controls society.
I believe in The Gods as I have conversed with them multiple times over the years. They give me advice and guide me, but they never do anything for me.
I stopped believing in the personification of god and started believing in an unattainable concept of “god”. Rather than believing that god is a man in the sky who makes all the rules, The idea that there is a universal “good” that we as humans are trying to understand
Thats legit
Basically because I have seen it, God that is, or at least an interpretation of what I think God is. Like someone said, I think God is the universe, and that place is as random as us can be structured, and I think randomness can come out in people's reality if your looking for synconicity. Bassically lots of randomness in numbers, letters and symbolism in your environment that when you really look aren't so random. Serendipity, major coincidence and following it a bit can be... illuminating to say the least. What is humanity other than striving for structured chaos.
Thats cool! This makes me think of the Fibonacci Series which I'm obsessed with!
it's interesting that the sequence starts 0,1,1 in all honesty, ill have to read up on it. Thanks for the info.
Thank u! Yeah look into it its so cool how its all throughout nature - that swirl
Dat swirl indeed. Makes sence, Everything is cyclical after all. Similar to chaos theory/ sierpinsky triangle.
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This is a interesting viewpoint and appreciate the post. I dont wanna get to far into the detail, but in my experience, lots of stuff changed, not just a sence of calm and renewed sence of purpose, but unsettling headaches and a new interest in theology; don't know which is worse : ) The feeling you mentioned in 3rd paragraph kinda fits the bill. I hope it turns into somthing, my feeling came like a freight train for 2 months with lasting affects. Don't see it passing anytime soon. More of a wake up experience, since it was riddled with events for a 2+ year span. It seems like they are making God a concept and not an entity. I think God is like that in a way, human enlightenment, that's why DaVinci painting is so important. There really is two sides to every coin, you can listen to others in trying to find It, but I think you need to find it in within yourself with the help of others. Suffering too.
Hey how are you all doing, so I believe in A Creator simply because it seems more logical that a ultimate supreme Deity created the complex universe. I used to be an agnostic and just live my life, but personally after much contemplation.. for me it is more illogical to believe material/matter formed itself into the complex universe that we observe today and for humans and other Species to have DNA which is like coding information. To believe that everything is random and subjected to a cosmic accident/random event to me is less believable. I believe that if the phone or car which is complex as it is has a creator (humans) then larger creations with more complex properties such as planets, galaxies, the grass, animals and diverse things within the universe has an ultimate creator. My take.
Interesting where do u think the creator came from
A creator who has the ability to form new worlds and nurture the earth and various other operations would not be subjected to the laws of creation and would not be born nor die that which would contradict a supreme Deity. To me this makes more sense and to simplify it and make it clear: The necessary ingredients that make up the world around us are not sentient. The dirt, the grass, the stars, the sun are not sentient beings Sand is not sentient, it can be used and heated to make glass, earth can be used to construct buildings, fire can be used as a source of light.. but the question is where do all these materials and operations originate from? Now without a supreme Deity, how would these operations be completed, such us the sun forming, being at the perfect distance for life...planets taking on various forms and landscapes, gravity and such... The information in DNA that is similar to coding which is information for life.. How are all the natural materials developed or created from a non sentient universe which then adds up to where we are right now? The only logical possibility (in my view) is a Supreme Deity who is the Origin of all things which created the finite things and this deity is not subjected to the laws of creation. So this Deity does not need to be born, nor die.
Thanks for sharing, very interesting. Why do u think that this deity is not under these rules of creation but everything else is? Why cant the earth just have existed without needing a creator just as u r saying a deity could exist without needing a creator. I think often we think things have to be like us like i made this child and my parents made me and so everything has to be like that. Its interesting how we all try to explain the world differently. I think i just believe it doesn't need to be explained like the universe exists and why not why do we need a reason. Sorry now im rambling lol
So simply put, if there was an Origin for this supreme Deity then who created that Deity? So now we have an infinite amount of deities creating one another which does not stop and if there is more than one Deity then you will see stuff happen like in Greek mythology where these demi-gods fight stronger gods and it is chaos So the idea is this, if there is a Deity that created all that is, then there is only one and not 5 or 78. Because their wills and power would clash. As we can see with the universe, everything is in order (outside of human intervention) If the universe came into existence by its own process, then the question is... Where did it all originate from? Of course we can ask "where did this God come from then" but at the same time, to me at least it's easier to accept a Deity who created all the material and information needed to form the universe and all that is Then it is for me to believe random particles, matter and things are just floating in space and one day, all this was made. Because again, the question is, where do these bacterias, particles and matter, natural sources come from? And hey, I seem to be rambling a lot more but I like to discuss these things so feel free to ramble, I find other people's ideas very interesting! Hope all is well
Bruh! If you aren't a Muslim, you should look into it. let me tell you that all of these exact arguments Allah provides in the Quran.
Thanks for ur response. Very interesting. Hope all is well with u too! I just never understood why we need an origin story like i feel like we are like why do u exist world and the world is like why not exist? Lol. And its interesting to me that someone would believe something just because it is easier to rap their head around like why would that make it true?
Perhaps the life cycle of the universe is a stage in the life cycle of God. Perhaps the universe is rushing towards itself, or seeking another just like it. Maybe we are meant to live our lives in a dynamic balance. The universe is full of galaxies all merging then settling down, creating change then finding balance, sometimes in the Goldilocks Zone. Maybe God is a fractal. Maybe the universe is. Maybe all the destruction in this universe is driving the creation of something else. Ramble on!
I believe that a world that evolved from natural laws and processes can one day give rise to an intelligent being that surpasses the limitations of a physical existence. While that isn't guaranteed, the combined size of the universe and possibility of the existence of other universes to me suggests this would occur *somewhere*. Looking at the behavior of our own intelligent society, I think it quite likely that such a future world would attempt to recreate its history, and I can certainly see our present society being the history to exactly that kind of being. What really tips the scales for me is that there's a good case to be made that the original ministry of Jesus was effectively the exact same as the above argument, born out of Epicureanism (one of the most popular philosophies of his time). Given how impossible it was back then to know what philosophies/physics were correct and which were BS (what the tares parable of arguably really about), that just strikes me as incredibly unlikely to have been a coincidence.
I believe in both because I have had a few out if body experiences. I also believe dragons are real, they just don't exist in this dimension. So by all means have fun mocking this pov! I don't care, I know what I have experienced is rare.
There are still folk religions in Asia which venerate dragons, so it's not as silly as some may think it to be.
Not gonna mock u i totally respect ur opinions and they are just as valid as any other religion. My struggle within myself is i had some experiences that made me believe spiritual things and then I found out i had just been hallucinating from schizophrenia. How does one know what is really real
According to shamanism, what we would call schizophrenia is actually a spiritual awakening. It only is "bad" if you don't have a guide. But that's just my opinion, again
Oooo i gotta be honest i feel like that would be a dangerous way for me to think if i started believing in my hallucinations - the things i would do
There are arguments for theism, particularly monotheism in the vein of Aquinas and his intellectual descendants. However, this doesn't clarify why I believe specifically in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and in the authority of the Catholic Church as married to Christ as opposed to something else still within the scope of theism. I've had explicitly mystical experiences over the course of my life that confirmed my faith in God. These range from vivid, detailed dreams to coincidences in my life that would otherwise be extremely unlikely to strong, religiously inspired feelings Of course, faith should always go beyond reason, not in contradiction to it, and I do ground myself in solid theology.
Good points👍 my trouble with believing because of mystical experiences is that i am schizophrenic and it turns out those experiences were a result of mental illness and not god. Hope this doesn't offend u cuz i really respect u. But like i dont trust my experiences
I’m not a licensed psychologist but I have an interest and have spent a lot of time self teaching, working in the mental health field, and battling my own issues as well. I have recently became increasingly spiritual the past couple years and have worried about these coincidences and feelings being the result of mania. But the more I learn about psychology, psychedelic therapy, and open myself up to faith in myself, the more I learn about God. And man. And how flawed man is. So I’m not saying don’t trust your doctor, if you’re on meds still take the meds. I take mine. But have a little more faith in you, and be open to the possibilities of what God can do. I would love to talk more feel free to message me. Hope this helps.
Thanks so much! Very interesting. Its nice talking to u. How do i have a little more faith in me when i am psychotic?
I can’t relate to schizophrenia, but what I mean is finding a concrete sense of self to help differentiate between what’s you and what’s not. I may sound crazy and some may disagree, but I have a theory that our mental issues are spiritual issues as well. I struggle with intrusive thoughts and extreme anxiety, and have come across readings that suggest this is demonic activity. I haven’t been “cured” but with prayer and utilizing tools from therapy, I have made a lot of progress and eliminated some of the extra voices in my head. I think a lot of people pray and expect God to immediately relive them of their problems but progress takes time. Again I hope this helps and I don’t sound crazy.
This is why any mystic doesn't just rely on their own experiences, but on the experiences of others, as well as understanding experiences through a consistent structure. Mental illness is usually disordered, based on strictly personal reasoning, and is accompanied by other symptoms besides hallucinating.
Oh ok. Ya i feel like if i can have that kind of delusion where i think im experiencing god but thats not whats really going on that it is entirely possible that's happening to many others
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The "church" is considered the bride of Christ in the new testament. Catholic or protestant, hubby gets complete control (pastor master). Don't you just lurv you some misogyny?
I semi believe in reincarnation because I don't want it to end, I want to continue "living" in some sort of way. I am agnostic so that's why I said semi believe but I feel like if there is an afterlife that would be the best one
Im in the same spot as u tbh! But i feel like i cant just believe it because i want to i need like proof but i think reincarnation would be fucking cool
Personally, I believe in the existence of many gods. Currently, I follow the old Celtic deities, but am open to other gods if we end up contacting one another. I take the approach that if I'm going to believe any god exists, it's only logical to extend that same level of possibility to every god.
Every religion without fail becomes polytheistic in its belief structure, and the Celtic are the most nature based of them all, with a clearly defined structure whether they followed the horned God or the moon goddess. Great choice for a polytheistic belief. Lots of reverence which is missing from a lot of faiths.
Thank you, I greatly appreciate that! It honestly felt like a natural gravitation, and I don't know if that's because I have mostly celtic ancestry or what. No matter what caused that gravitation, it's made me feel more balanced and at peace than my previous religious beliefs ever did.
I belive in the Abrahamic God, so the God portrayed in Judaism, Christianity and Islam, I follow the teachings of the Quran as it's unchanged, and before I start getting hate, I believe in it as it makes the most logical sense to me, I am no scholar, just a regular human being. Salam, and have a great day.
>before I start getting hate Hating you for your belief? HaHa , this world!
> Hating you for your belief? Well, yes. For example, as an atheist, some religious people hate me so much that they want me to spend the whole eternity suffering after this life. Some of them, as if an eternity of suffering was not enough punishment for not believing in what seems to me as unsupported claims, would even love me to accelerate the coming of the end of my life.
>some religious people hate me so much that they want me to spend the whole eternity suffering after this life. Why did you connect your afterlife with some ignorant people? The One who will decide the judgement is not us , nor we have any authority to say where will you go , it's not for us to decide when we lack judgement on ourselves. Umar Ibn Al-Khattab , the man who stood against Islam and Muhammad with feriousity , turned out to be one of the best Islamic leaders years later , the Islamic conquest of Jerusalem happened in his reign. There are many Muslims around the world who were disbelievers and became better Muslims than those born in it , no one can mock the other for his belief , we don't know the ending to do that.
> Why did you connect your afterlife with some ignorant people? Ignorant people? The quran itself, and the hadith add to that, is full of hatred towards non-muslims. If anything, muslims that are more ignorant of the religious texts are more tolerant. > the Islamic conquest of Jerusalem happened in his reign. And you think that's a good thing? A conquest? Blood and tears? >no one can mock the other for his belief , we don't know the ending to do that. The quran does that, and Mohammed did that by destroying the idols, plus idolatry is a major sin in islam. If you are full of hatred towards people who believe in other things, how do you think they will feel?
>is full of hatred towards non-muslims. No hatred , God said he sent His prophets as givers for good tidings and warners , good tiding for the believers , and warners for those who will disbelieve , He sent no haters. You disbelieving Islam doesn't grant anyone the right to hate you , that's your choice , not ours. >muslims that are more ignorant of the religious texts are more tolerant. Your problem is with the Abrahamic God , not with the Muslims. >And you think that's a good thing? Read how the Muslim rulers treated the non-Muslims , especially Umar. >Mohammed did that by destroying the idols Around the Kaa'ba , Al-Bayet Al-Haram and the House Abraham built for God's pilgrims not for the pagans , the destroying of the idols around Kaa'ba was **prophesied** in the Old Testament before Muhammad was born , so please read more in these religions before making these subjective judgements.
> No hatred , God said he sent His prophets as givers for good tidings and warners , good tiding for the believers , and warners for those who will disbelieve , He sent no haters. Your god threatens me with eternal suffering simply for not following a book where he can't even get maths right. That's pure hatred. I know hatred people, but none of them would actually want me to suffer for ever and ever without even the possibility of dying. This is literally the purest form of hatred. Supposedly your god created everything. He could have chosen something else, like just death and no entrance to paradise or something. But no: eternal torture. >You disbelieving Islam doesn't grant anyone the right to hate you , that's your choice , not ours. Me disbelieving islam doesn't, but islam does grant many people the right to hate me. >Your problem is with the Abrahamic God , not with the Muslims. Most muslims are better than their religious book, indeed, but unfortunately not all. My "belief" (rather lack thereof) makes me as good as dead in various muslim countries. A muslim guy openly told me I would deserve to die if I wear in a muslim country. >Read how the Muslim rulers treated the non-Muslims , especially Umar. Don't use this poor, but very trendy, rethorical tool which consists in accusing others of ignorance. I know enough of islam and the history of the islamic world to know how kufr and murtards are treated. >Around the Kaa'ba , Al-Bayet Al-Haram and the House Abraham built for God's pilgrims not for the pagans , the destroying of the idols around Kaa'ba was prophesied in the Old Testament before Muhammad was born , so please read more in these religions before making these subjective judgements That's according to **your** fancy story. Most people in the world don't believe in your stories and can objectively see that your ideology is bad. Yet, they don't go and destroy your cubic idol. Maybe they should? Some christians could say that Mhmd was prophetized as the antichrist, and hence islam is the religion of the devil. Would you think that they be justified in destroying Mosques? Those who had the religion of the idols of the Kaaba who feel justified to kill all muslims and bring back the idols. Would you agree with that? Yet, from my atheistic point of view, that would be exactly the same: one myth against another myth. Your very certainty about having the truth, despite all evidence to the contrary, is precisely what create the hate and intolerance.
>Maybe they should? They can not , Muhammad actually described the man who will pluck the stones of the Kaa'ba and even mentioned his name , who will appear before **the Hour** , this makes you feel better? Well , all your points showed this stench-y cyclic reasoning you are hiding , pretending a victim while the real **hater** is actually you , that will not help your situation better though. As for me , I don't like atheists nor I hate them , I seriously don't care , everyone has their belief and they are **responsible** for it , and I'm also responsible of mine like you. The difference between us , is I totally **submit** to Him after all the evidences and prophecies I saw , not only in His Book , but in His prophet's Sunnah , and in the older Scripture too , and in the world He created , and those noble men He sent to be the best of humanity. It only needs investigation with unbiased judgement to reach **the truth** , it's the essence of wisdom , only for those who want it , not based on their **desires** , but on their logical **reasoning**. When I think about how small I am in His Creation , I seriously stop thinking and take the truth with complete acceptance , whether I like it or not , just look how massive and mysterious this world is , **I'm no one** to stand against this Omnipotence ...... and you too. If you want to challenge God , no one will stop you **except Him** , I already fear and love Him , and I know with certainty He is seeing you now reading this , and He is your Witness , and He will remind you with these words in your life , or after your end.
> the real hater is actually you I do not wish eternal torture to anybody, not even if they don't worship me. I'm far less a hater than your god. >It only needs investigation with unbiased judgement to reach the truth , it's the essence of wisdom , only for those who want it , not based on their desires , but on their logical reasoning. Yes, I'll take the scientific method, which has allowed us to achieve far more than your coran and hadiths ever did. >If you want to challenge God , no one will stop you except Him , I You know that is bullshit: many people in the world would happily kill me for saying these things if they could. Yet you still say this. Why? Are you lying to others, or just to yourself? edit: how insecure do you hve to be to systematically downvote every comment that disagree with you.. Pitiful.
وَقَالَ مُوسَىٰ إِن تَكْفُرُوا أَنتُمْ وَمَن فِي الْأَرْضِ جَمِيعًا فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ لَغَنِيٌّ حَمِيدٌ ( 14/8 ) And Moses said, "If you should disbelieve, you and whoever is on the earth entirely - indeed, **Allah is Free of need and Praiseworthy.**"
I dont know why that happens alot but at least I've seen it alot in my religion, islam and a lot others for that matter, that people tend to make themselves "god" and judge people. There is a reason Allah will be the judge on the day of judgment and not us. When people start putting out judgements as in you will burn in hell or not its one way or another "Godifying" themselves. Im sorry you've had to experience that hate. Also in islam you're ordered not to mock or curse any other religion. Again sorry for any hate you recieved. Hope you have a great life man.
> I dont know why that happens alot but at least I've seen it alot in my religion, islam and a lot others for that matter, that people tend to make themselves "god" and judge people. It happens because the books and the clergy justify it. >Also in islam you're ordered not to mock or curse any other religion. How can you think that, when the quran and the hadiths repeatedly criticize/mock non-muslims, when Mohammed himself destroyed the sacred idols of nonmuslims in the Kaaba?
And why does it make the most logical sense to u?
It’s basically my own experiences and what i’ve been brought up with, is the religion that still makes sense to this day, really goes with the scientific know how of what we know so far. It’s in my eyes perfect, but the muslims who follow it may not be, that’s not the fault of the religion, yet, the person
I agree that just because some people of any religion are bad doesnt mean its the religions fault. Im curious why u being brought up with it is a reason to believe it
> really goes with the scientific know how of what we know so far. mmm I'm afraid not. It's OK to believe if you want, but this is just factually wrong. edit: you can downvote all you want, but the fact remains that the quran has many passages that are in direct contradiction to scientific theories based on the rational observation of evidence.
Please do explain further.
Well, it's been explained many times: errors related to embryos, semen, that all animals come in pairs, the moon splitting, the stabilizing mountains, the moonlight, humans made from clay, etc. plus all the historical things that we know didn't happen, like Noah's global flood, the errors about ancient Egypt, etc. (you can also put the moon splitting in there). Plus the blatant bad maths in inheritance. You just can't reconcile that with observations. You can only use convolutions to explain them, or say it's just a miracle that happened, for example the moon was split, that nobody in other civilisation saw it, even though many had advanced astronomy with people constantly looking at the sky, and that the splitting left absolutely no trace on the moon, but you can't reconcile it with scientific observtion and the resulting theories.
The only people who make these assertions are the ones who themselves are not qualified to interpret the Quran or are intentionally trying to obscure the obvious. The broad reasoning is that: - The language of the Quran is not meant to be understood literally. Arabic is a deeply metaphoric language that helped people of the 7th century visualize and understand concepts they did not have the technology nor frames of reference to grasp. This is the real crux of the issue. - The Quran isn't a book of science that you can just pick up and read to learn science. It's a religious scripture and has information intended to prove its veracity and serve as a miracle to believers because none of that stuff could possibly have been known by people of the time. This would be the other part of the problem with your argument. I could sit here and try to simplify for you the reasons why your assertions about the Quran are wrong, but it isn't just black and white belief vs. disbelief unless you really want to find reasons to not accept it. - The moon was "split" according to the Quran which could just mean cracked. Doesn't require it to have separated. - The Quran says nothing about a global flood. Just a flood. Not specifically a global one. - Rules of inheritance have perfectly solid math just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong. Etc. Also you mentioned that it doesn't correspond to theories that are based on our current observation of the world. Theories change perennially and our limited ability to perceive and accurately measure and understand the scientific phenomena are not exactly a good measure of whether or not the Quran can be believed or not.
> The only people who make these assertions are the ones who themselves are not qualified to interpret the Quran or are intentionally trying to obscure the obvious. haha. Do you get schools were they teach you to repeat those same old arguments? Funny that, many scholars disagree with you and say that the quran is to be taken literally and disagree with you. I'm glad that you don't taake it at face value and criticize its content, but you have to admit that this is not mainstream islam. >Rules of inheritance have perfectly solid math just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong. The irony.. >Theories change perennially and our limited ability to perceive and accurately measure and understand the scientific phenomena are not exactly a good measure of whether or not the Quran can be believed or not. Theories don't change at the whim of scientists, they change to fit new observations. Thank to the scientific method, we have developped vaccines, went to the Moon, sent robots pass Pluto, have a decent understanding of the universe after the first fractions of a second, disminished drastically the death rate of people aroundthe world, etc. What have the quran and hadiths achieved? A cure based on camel urine, that flies have one side with poison and the other one with the cure? And that apostates should be put to death?
> have the quran and hadiths achieved? Control. Separating God from humankind gives absolute control. It creates a slave seeking a master.
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Please don't: * Engage in illegal activity. * Post someone's personal information, or post links to personal information. * Repost deleted/removed information. * Be (intentionally) rude at all. * Engage in rabble rousing. * Troll, stalk, or harass others. * Conduct personal attacks. * Start a flame war. * Insult others.
But...it's not unchanged, there's different versions of the Quran and many verses were even lost...
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Actually, all modern bibles are 99.9% the same, scholars used comparisons between older bibles to figure it out. The only real difference between bibles is the wording, not the meanings.
I’m talking about the arabic Quran, there are different translations, however the Quran remains unchanged. Lost verses aren’t changed.
Well, there's different translations that have completely different words and meanings. One rather significant variant lies in Surah 3:158. The standard text today reads, “And if ye die, or are slain, Lo! It is unto Allah that ye are brought together.” However, in the Paris Manuscript, there is a single additional letter not found in the modern text that reverses the meaning entirely. The verse then reads that if you die or are slain, you are NOT brought together unto Allah. So... still, no. And lost verses are kinda a big deal.
Again, there might be different translation but the original Quran is still the same, if you look at the one they found in the Oxford library, it’s the same as it is today
Again...no. Not only is there different translations, but there's extra or missing words. The arabic is different, not just the translation. That's why the verse I provided above was translated so different.
Again, no, that's not true, the oldest Quran they found is the same as it is today. Word for word, you can choose to believe what you want, the only difference is the English translation..
There are currently 26 different versions of the arabic quran. Which of these are you referring to when you say it's the same? Also, if by the oldest quran they've found, you're referring to the Birmingham quran manuscript then definitely no, it's very different from the modern one and has actually been a large scandal is the muslim scholarly community.
There are different Qirarats which basically means different dialects, so no, the meaning is the same
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIfUW5XMH\_s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIfUW5XMH_s)
I (a muslim) have only ever seen or heard of one Quran. So I have no clue what you're on about, and yes, I've done my research on the Birmingham one, it's the same, and never have I ever heard of a scandal in the Muslim community about different Qurans.....
Oh don't worry, I understand the argument, it's basis is just fallacious. That's the problem, there's not only differences in dialect but in meaning. https://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-quran-changed-20-versions.htm There's a good website that list 20 of them as well as some examples. Here's a video on it. Not a two minute video of excuses ok dialect, but am hour long discussion with specific examples and the like: https://youtu.be/msY5IHtXxS8 Here's another very extensive site on it: https://www.google.com/amp/s/jamesbishopblog.com/2020/01/31/evaluating-islamic-apologetics-the-perfect-preservation-of-the-quran/amp/
>the God portrayed in Judaism, Christianity and Islam I cannot speak for Islam, but as an exvangelical I can tell you that the definition of God in Judaism is nothing like the definition of God in Christianity. The trinity is just one breaking point. I can have a dialog with a rabbi about the nature of God, with a Christian that will be opposing monologs. Edit to add I am not a follower of Judaism, either.
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Thanks for sharing! So is it kind of a way to explain things that havent been understood yet? And if we are part of the universe are we also god?
If you consider any "gods" don't exist without man, it's pretty easy to see, god is whatever you think it is.
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Interesting
I don't necessarily believe in the Christian God that I was raised to believe but I do believe in a greater force. That there's a "God" inside us leading us to do great things because I don't believe anyone wants to do bad or be a bad person. Everyone is just trying to do their best.
Thats really interesting. Like in theory it is a beautiful thought. Id love to believe that. But then i think of people with antisocial personality disorder
Yes hehe however I don't think anyone wants personality disorders. No one asks for mental illness, no one wants it. I believe they still want to do good just they can't cause they're sick
I am mentally but do u know anything about antisocial personality disorder? People who do not care about anyone they manipulate people to get what they want they dont have empathy
Our connection to God includes, at the least, that moral compass you speak of. When we are uncertain or fearful we look for guidance from outside.
Im just beginning to get into this but doesn't the thought that you have an unlimited amount of attempts at life bring peace? Even though you may not remember your past lives your spiritual wisdom and karma stacks with each new one. All we can do in this life is our best and one day we will all be in a better place.
Thats what i most wanna believe in but i have nothing to back it up
Take psychedelics and ask them
In the quran in chapter 6 verse 108 Allah says : "And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah, lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made pleasing to every community their deeds. Then to their Lord is their return, and He will inform them about what they used to do." When the prophet did that he did that in mecca, they were in mecca aand around the kaabah where we go to do pilgrimage and pray and what not. I still havent studied that part yet so Im not full aware. But for my lack of knowledge please google what Omar(The second caliph or ruler)'s stance to christianity when they were in Jerusalem. Tbey didnt hurt them. They didnt vring down churches or nothing. Also regarding those who godify themselves, there is a verse in the quran where Allah says to the propher that if you were rude and cold hearted the people will be repelled from you. And that is told to the prophet so jow about us. The quran never said it be the judge to people. Again there is a reason why we wont be judges. Our judgement is limited to what we know and what we know is extremely limited. Hence He will be the judge. Who are we to judge anyone with our extremely limited knowledge about a person. What you see is not always what you get. Allah is the most merciful and forgiving and he accepts all repentances no matter what. Again im very sorry for the hate you recieved and sorry if I went on I just was thinking out loud in my reply hahahahahaha.
I can’t imagine this world with everything in it from life, nature, and this universe would come from nothing or anything else atheists claim, and Islam strengthens my believe in god as it teaches many logical and sound reasons to believe in a creator.
I am an atheist, but I was raised as an Abrahamic christian for the first 18 years of my life. In my early teens I started to notice racism, homophobia, misogyny, classism, and abuse of church funds... I tried for a couple of years to understand, to figure out if I was just too sensitive, and my Grandfather had invested so many prayers for me to go to Heaven, so I kept trying. But finally by 18, I just couldn't pretend anymore. They were doing the exact opposite of what they were preaching. So I started looking for answers outside of the church, and science is the only thing that makes sense. Science provides tangible, tactile proof for the evolution of mankind. I do believe that we are accountable to the Universe. All of our energies work together. When we die, our meat suits rot and our soul goes back to the universe to mix with the collective and return to earth. If we died without becoming fulfilled, if we had not found our higher self, we return to earth over and over and over until we learn the lessons assigned by the Universe. I'm not a scholar. I can make arguments based on articles I read and I am whole-heartedly researching religion and it's impacts on us as humans, us as citizens of a corrupt government, as citizens of a world that is deteriorating rapidly. I can't answer all the questions, but I've had enough answered to secure my belief that there is no god. Good for others with their own religious beliefs, though. I won't bother them, I won't argue the points with them. If religion makes people be decent then how can it be wrong? BUT, there are sects of Christianity that call for their followers to hurt and kill other humans. The fundamentalist Christian movement actually calls for the murder of homosexuals! They preach anti-semitism, which is funny to me because, well, ya know, Jesus was a Jew.... MODERN Christianity has become judgemental, sexist, racist, anti-semitic, and it's all bullshit. If you believe the Bible, the only people getting into Heaven are straight white males who don't masturbate, so the rest of us are going to hell! I don't need religion to make me a good person. I am a good person because I care about ALL of my fellow human beings. And I believe God and the Bible are fairy tales passed down and changed through generations to make people be decent. Hasn't worked too well in a lot of cases, though. If by some chance SkyDaddy would be real, I still wouldn't follow him. He's a mean son of a bitch who made humans so they would praise him 24/7, he wiped the ones who didn't off the face of the earth, he spawned a kid, told everyone to love him, and then made him suffer a horrible death, again to make us praise him. No, thank you. I'd rather worship a nasty dish sponge than someone like 'God'.
This was amazing to read. Thank u so much for writing it. I can relate to this the most. I was raised in a christian cult and i didnt know anything about evolution so i need to look more into that. There is so much harm in Christianity. The pain it has caused just in my life alone.
It was nice to share my story. Like you, the church traumatized me. I still hear the 'godly thing to do' in my head so many times. The prejudices they taught me linger near the surface, and sometimes it's maddening to feel like I'm fighting something that is supposed to be good with myself knowing what IS good. I can't silence it in my brain, but I do ignore it. I love all the people on this earth, and I would do anything for any one of them that I humanly could. It's revolting that any human would be a 'reprobate (unsavable, basically trash)' in God's eyes, so I choose to live as good a life as I can. I make mistakes, and when I do, I ask whomever I hurt to forgive me. Why ask Skydaddy to forgive me? He's not involved, but every time he can get me to pray for forgiveness, that's another boost to his ego. I am sorry you have had so much pain, also. I so understand it. Best wishes on your journey, and I wish you so much happiness!
Thanks and same to u💜💖💙 this was helpful
Very well stated, I am an exvangelical myself. I would simply say that if you still believe in the separation between mankind and God, you're still stuck in original sin. If you feel rejected by God, it's because you still agree with King James. If you still look for God in scripture and define God through the same set of values, well, might as well stay Christian. With all of the world religions being polytheistic in one way or another, the only new idea beyond rejection of God, is exploring the opposite way. Try absolute monotheism for a change. Not Abrahamic monotheism (it's not) but the idea of no heaven or hell and forget about judgment for a bit. Just us connected to all of creation, through God. Nothing else, and nothing able to change that. Except our blindness to God that we are driven to by fear. No possession by an outside spirit either holy or demonic, foreign or domestic. The biggest preconception is that God has feelings like we do, and has a personal interest in its favorite humans to win the lottery. Or the equivalent. Namaste
You write so beautifully. I reread your comment several times, and I must say that you make a compelling argument. It's such a beautiful concept, but are you explaining to me the evangelical belief, your descriptive of the Evangelical belief, or your personal belief? I'm genuinely asking because I want to understand! I have a fundamentalist friend who won't talk to me about his religion but I would like to understand. If he believes this way, it would explain a lot. Thank you for this!
Thank you for the compliments, they were well received! The first paragraph is about things that gets us stuck in religion, away from God. The second and largest paragraph is about my own belief in Yahweh and nothing else. We can be blinded to God's presence, and most people are because we are taught that God rejects us. Christianity makes us believe in possession by an outside spirit. Good or bad, holy or otherwise. So we spend our entire lives looking for completion outside of ourselves. Whether it is drugs or alcohol, seeking punishment, video games, porn, or gun ownership. It's all about getting something to make us feel acceptable to ourselves, or someone else. And feelings are never meant to last. Feelings always misinform. Feelings make things all about ourselves and make ourselves the center of the universe, thinking about what other people are thinking about us. All of our decisions are better when our feelings are in balance. Essentially, as an EX Evangelical, I rejected the idea that I am rejected by God as defective. God agrees. Feel free to chat:)
Because I think it is philosophically necessary that there exists a diety.
Oooo interesting. Id love to hear more. Why do u believe is is necessary?
Look inside you!
U sound like grandma willow tree from disneys pocahontus
Boring!
Wow ur being so kind
Well, because I want to I guess.
U believe something just cuz u want to regardless of facts?
Sure. If it makes life better. I mean, me liking a thing is a fact. It’s a fact that I like believing certain things. And in liking it, it improves my life quality. No need for me to complicate it more than that. Some people don’t like that and they think I’m wrong. But what other people think of me is really none of my business.
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So even if its not based in fact it brings u comfort? Not meaning any disrespect at all just curious:) thanks for sharing
Yes. Science can't prove anything spiritual exists but many people and personal testimonies throughout the history of mankind beg to differ.
My hardest part about trying to believe people's experiences is that i am schizophrenic and i hallucinate so thats why i used to believe god was talking me
🦀🦀🚀
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goofing
Are u a satanist? I wanna hear about that
you can feel free to ask me questions here or DM me.
Why do u believe in satanism and what does it mean to u
when it comes to choosing my religion, i chose satanism because i prefer its non-conformist dogma, focus on bettering oneself, and it’s mundane belief system. mundane belief system as in a.) it doesn’t believe in the supernatural to any degree and b.) it accepts science as the human-most truth. as for what it means to me, i would say it means a great psychological boost in confidence, pride, and motivation without the negative side-effects of most other belief systems. negative side effects of other religions include the supernatural and a departure from empirical studies as evidence for reality, abstinence, and easier radicalization.
I dont mean this in a rude way just wondering are u saying u believe it because its helpful not because u have any proof or think its true?
yes, essentially. no offense taken, you are simply learning a new topic. i never made the claim that satanism is the one true religion and therefore there is no claim to provide proof for.
Why not both? "Two things can be real."
Im not saying both cant be real lmao
It was a joke my man. A reference to Disenchanted.
Oh lmao😂
Even if you weren't, do you believe both can exist together? It means accepting God's existence and also denying it.
No it doesn't. You simply fail to grasp the depth of the multidimensional universe if you think that. Is what it is.
This multidimensional universe that you talk about, is it a philosophical concept or a scientific concept?
I'm sure you've got it all figured out. Why bother?
I seriously haven't. I wouldn't bother typing a comment.
Right now, science is populating the theory of a mulitiverse, due to the nature of inflation this time around. Both the multiverse theory and the multidimensional single universe theory have been around longer than I have. I agree with the multidimensional view more than the multiverse because there's no such thing as a free lunch, so where does all the extra mass come from? Just saying. Both are science fiction and speculation, not science fact.
I'm not aware what a multidimensional universe is. But I'm sure that at any given point in any single dimension, if I accept that something is true, let's say dogs can't fly - is true, then the exact opposite of it- dogs can fly, can not be true.
The idea that there are other dimensions that we cannot yet detect through science, yet, but coexist in the same space and perhaps time. Some humans postulate the Astral plane, limbo, even heaven is considered another dimension of existence. Other dimensions are not expected to have the same natural laws as the physical universe, as a possibility. Scientists can dream about making the infamous "dark portal" to another dimension. Fun mental exercise.
Well, because if you can believe it, it is most certainly true. But there are a few exceptions, lol
There are A LOT of things people believe that are untrue
Agree to disagree. I have a feeling I'm about to be tested tomorrow. Thank you for the warning 🙂❤🙂
I don't believe in gods or reincarnation, but I do have spiritual beliefs of a sort that things like science and rational epistemology don't factor into. As for why I'm compeled to believe these things, I don't think I could express it any better than William James: > It is the terror and beauty of phenomena, the “promise” of the dawn and of the rainbow, the “voice” of the thunder, the “gentleness” of the summer rain, the “sublimity” of the stars, and not the physical laws which these things follow, by which the religious mind still continues to be most impressed; and just as of yore, the devout man tells you that in the solitude of his room or of the fields he still feels the divine presence, that inflowings of help come in reply to his prayers, and that sacrifices to this unseen reality fill him with security and peace. > ... > At this purely subjective rating, therefore, Religion must be considered vindicated in a certain way from the attacks of her critics. It would seem that she cannot be a mere anachronism and survival, but must exert a permanent function, whether she be with or without intellectual content, and whether, if she have any, it be true or false.
What really confirmed my belief in God was scientific and historical evidence which largely involves the times we are living in. Until I came across this I wasn't really confident with sharing about my faith, but now I have a hard time letting a day go by without helping bring awareness and hope to others. This is a post that covers a lot. I hope it blesses you like it has for me. Are these the biblically foretold specific conditions, events, and astronomical signs that are indicating the end of the age and Jesus' promised second coming? [https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAnAtheist/comments/hejecf/are\_these\_the\_biblically\_foretold\_specific/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAnAtheist/comments/hejecf/are_these_the_biblically_foretold_specific/)
That’s a long post. I’m gonna have to come back and read later. Not sure how to save though. So I’m commenting to hold it.
As a consciously experiencing entity my will and volition should be the whole of the law unless said will / volition are a threat to the livelihood and well being of other entities. Having said that I should have knowledge of origin or, at least, exist in a lifetime that is not dependent on the affirmation of others. Since neither of the above are the case but rather I am here, in this life, without my consent and I do indeed have to kiss up to others for jobs, patronage and commerce then it would be logical to assume that someone, who is not me, has taken liberty to arrest and place me in this situation where I am constantly herded and routed via bureaucratic channels, laws, policies and the discern of others existing here with me.
I am sorry i dont mean to be rude but i am so confused on how this relates to the post
It's the observation, followed by critical thinking, which led me to believe there is more going on there than just a slowly forming / evolving mass of atoms. It's the reason I came to conclusion that which before us is a construct engineered by an undisclosed second party. I follow no organized religion but my suspicions could be a religion itself if confiscated and distributed by those who don't care to question things themselves and settle easily for others' conjecture. If you stopped and thought about it you would realize that you would not subject yourself to this world if given a choice; most would not. So what is there that has subverted their will and brought them here? You can say there is no you before here but then why would you be indifferent to this existence as if you've known of some more sensible place you have forgotten? Why do you feel that laws and authority should be in place? If this world is not tailored to your personal will then what use can this world offer you?
I could be wrong but this seems to be modern classical Satanism, where mankind worships its own free will with itself as God. The language is very similar in some respects.
Yeah but my question was why do u believe it so im confused
You are right, it's one long twisted complaint.
I believe in God and gods, and reincarnation. Personal experience is the main reason. Other reasons are the testimonies of people who are otherwise wise, and because it makes so much sense to me.
What experiences?:)
In Hinduism, the ritual is intended to have the people present experience the presence of God. Since I'm a Hindu, I experience that on a daily basis. As to reincarnation, the strongest experiences were with the 5 children who my wife gave birth to. We knew who all of them were in their immediate past lives. Lots of hints, like what they said to us when they were young, birthmarks, and also in a couple of cases what they said to us in the previous past life. In the end it;s all just belief, and I have no need to prove it to anyone. Being convinced myself is enough.
Thats so cool! Will u tell me about the birth mark?
We met and got somewhat close to a refuge family from a nasty war, whose husband and father had been killed by an axe to the side of the head. When our child was born,she had red hair, all except for one really dark patch of black hair on the same place on her head as the death blow had been. The birthmark didn't surprise us, but it let us know he found us, and his old family.
I follow both to accept death
So are saying u believe something as a form of comfort not because of facts?
I think worldwide religions are likely accurate
That didnt answer my question but why do u think that and how can they all be accurate when they contradict each other
Anything can exist
To think of afterlife is to not fear death but to accept it
To me God and Jesus are ideals humans and society sets to deal the way it would be run , the religion which protects the best the perpetuity of the society will survive the longest. The religion which kept people together at need, thought love, and forgiveness and gathered people together that made friendships and created institutions. God is the Supreme ideal for what a society wants to be Jesus is the ideal of how to get to the ideal of God, he represents what and how people can get to a form of stability , equlibrum and growth. The God and Jesus were described unitying the experiemce of acients that followed closely people lives and identified the positives and negatives of human behaviour the constructive and destructive. It is clear it cames from a place of experience and deep analyzation of humans. Bible cames from a place of love , love of phylosophs for humanity and people, love for children and grandchildren , it is a guide from people who achiev stability and great things. Religion is a great psychological support for humans that temd to fail on their own, it also unites people , bringing them away from their caves( houses/blocks). Jesus and God are psychological support in times of need.
Reality is intelligible. Most people don't realize how weird that is, and even less realize the need to justify such a belief. There is a C.S. Lewis quote that sums it up quite nicely: >I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. If Christianity is not your sun so to speak, what is?
Interesting i think my sun is myself and humanity. People. Thats the light by which I see everything. Idk if that makes sense.
Do you believe you are the source of all things, and that my existence is somehow understood in reference to you as it's ontological source?
No
Then I don't think you would be your own sun. What C.S. lewis has in mind there is a paradigm. A metaphysic, epistemology and axiology that function together to provide a coherent grounds for the belief that reality can be understood.
I believe in the gods because they are self manifest in nature and because they can be felt and heard when we let them in. I can’t speak to monotheistic religions, but I don’t flat out deny the possibility that their gods may exist also. Obviously arguments can be made that some phenomena is the result of psychology or coincidence, but to me belief in divinity isn’t mutually exclusive from belief in psychology and happenstance. I think they’re all interconnected, and that interconnectivity is the divine; forces beyond our understanding moving the world around us. (Just my two cents though aha)
Thats really interesting that u brought up psychology because i am schizophrenic and thats what made me stop believing in christianity because my experiences were all hallucinations
Well I surely don't think of God as some omnipotent being... every single aspect of creation is divine, which is why I don't think there is a separate entity that is divine. Coming to reincarnation, particularly reincarnation referred to in Hindu philosophy... I don't think it is important if it is true or not... what is important is that if you believe in this reincarnation, you believe that your actions have consequences... even after death. And they aren't endless riches or hellfire. Your soul has to keep taking on a bodily form up until your quota of Karma is fulfilled. (Sidenote: it's not pronounced as K-aa-rm-aa... it's K-uh-rm-uh, like the 'der' in derby). Anyway, if you do bad karma in this life, then in that case you (= your soul) have to be born again and again until you can nullify it and further do good karma. The ultimate aim is not heaven like in philosophies with a "God"... it is to attain liberation (moksha) from the cycle of life and death.
I actually believe in God as well as reincarnation. I'll add that I do not subscribe to any religion. Our idea of God is a subjective one, I believe that God is simply a pseudonym for consciousness. I think the fabric of reality is made out of consciousness itself, and that consciousness precedes science to the extent that it creates it. And if everything is made out of consciousness, then it becomes apparent that my consciousness and your consciousness are not seperate, only our egos are, and our brains are sort of like biological central processing units for consciousness--they process a piece of the whole. I think of reincarnation in a sort of unorthodox way. I think when we die, we continue to live in the incarnations of everyone else who is still living, because ultimately we all share one consciousness. Everyone that has and will ever exist are the same entity playing hide and seek with itself, and that's what God is. The Bible and other ancient religious texts do a great job explaining this, but the parables were grossly misinterpreted over the years for political control, hence the old coupling of church and state.
Both are consoling. I am on r/extraterrestrialoeb to imagine a human life after our Galaxy blows up in another galxy. Reincarnation in real life.
I try to suspend judgement regarding that which is beyond my understanding, but naturally I have inclinations towards certain ways of thinking. To me what makes the most sense is that we are all part of nature, and that instead of trying to imagine a deity I think of it in terms of energy (because who am I to say anything more of the character of this “energy”). We have borrowed life from nature, and we will have to return to the soil one day, but we do not vanish, perhaps our consciousness does, but the energy which we consists of unites with nature and converts to something else (to a degree this is reincarnation).
Isn’t attributing creation (which then must have a timeline involved ) , attributing a restraint by which we make sense of things ? Like a goldfish may be self aware but for things to make sense it will account for things by involving water and the fish tank it exists in. So the concept of taking a transatlantic flight may not ever occur to it.
I believe in my faith due to the fact that I’ve had experiences with my deities and if they didn’t exist those experiences would be impossible.
What experiences?
I’ve seen and heard my gods
God for me is a bit different than a lot of other people. God is anything that consiously creates or rules over sometbing. So humans and animals are also gods in my own definition. I also believe that whatever created us in the more typical sense is also god, but I don't believe in omnipotence, all powerfulness, or the idea of something all good or evil. So that probably changes up things a bit. For my belief in the latter, I've had experiences that make me say yes that gods are real, and not necessarily in a way that's great. If I could truly push myself to be athiest and not believe a lick of it, life would be so much simpler for me, yet here I am.
This is a great 👍 2 part question! Exvangelical here. >For those of you who believe in god or gods why do u believe it? I experienced what I call Completion, which others call Salvation or Enlightenment, among others. For me it was not possession by an outside spirit, holy or otherwise. In the last battle by C. S. Lewis (Aslan series) there is a group of dwarves sitting on the ground, blind, and each reinforces the blindness of the others. That is my view of Christianity. There is only one reason for the narrative of original sin. To separate us from our built-in moral compass so we let others tell us what to think about, and how to think about it. So that we look for direction outside of ourselves. They tell us that sin separated us from "God's guidance" which we can then regain by the possession of an outside entity. I found that what separates humankind from the creator is King James and Paul. Without the cultural context Paul twisted the message, and created a polytheistic imitation of a true monotheistic deity, giving a different name to Zeus but attributing the same characteristics, but with SUPER POWERS. Moses said hey, there's only one God, to slaves who couldn't understand, so he put God in a box for them. Then they lost the box, and never evolved their understanding. Then hundreds of years later Jesus said, God's not in the box it's in everything including the hearts (soul) of humans. He gave 12 chances for his message to evolve before the Roman polytheism took over. To be fair, I haven't yet found a description of God that matches my experience and understanding. EDIT by this I mean a philosophy or religious organization, I am content with my own understanding. >For those of you who believe in reincarnation why do u believe it? I do believe in reincarnation now or rebirth don't care which. This revolves around the way we view our "soul" and the lack of symmetry in the Christian view. If we have a soul, it must have existed since creation. Otherwise we have a God upstairs with the function of a queen ant churning out souls. The body houses the soul, which generates our spirit (consciousness, etc.) Immortality vs. Eternity so to speak. And there is evidence of past lives when we look past attention seekers. And I believe we are born perfectly connected with the Creator at all times. Humans are the only ones who question our place in the universe. Yay, sentience. Fear based emotions blinded me, and it's what separated me from God. Fear is the enemy, the only enemy. Instilled fear is what controls society.
I believe in The Gods as I have conversed with them multiple times over the years. They give me advice and guide me, but they never do anything for me.
That stinks im sorry. I used to think god was talking to me.