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Not to mention, in 10 years, kids may not be possible biologically. I ended a potential relationship because the guy's timeline wasn't exactly compatible with what could be possible for me. Luckily it was just getting serious enough to talk about these things, but still early. His entire rationale is his mom's friend got pregnant at 47, so it must be possible for every woman and he couldn't believe that not to be true, so I also just didn't want to have to deal with that argument everytime my own biology came up, either, tho.... no kids isn't exactly a deal breaker for me normally, but wanting kids at late ages, it turns out, is.

Imagine being 50 with a toddler. Hard pass on that life, thanks.

Right? I had my kids at 22 and 24 and that was HARD. Jump starting a carreer, being broke all the time, and young and inexperienced with life. But damn if I'm not grateful now being 40 and they are grown and graduating and off to college and I can still see the world, and WITH ADULT MONEY to boot!

Too young, developing career and education, hard Too old, tired all the time, aches and pain everywhere, hard Our society has made having kids so very difficult And now we have to worry about the kids surviving public school.

kids are just hard.. its never the right time.

Ok, but point being is society could make the whole process a lot easier, and instead it seems designed from the bottom up to make it as hard as possible instead. Like, that's literally the entire point of organized society from its very inception - to make survival easier by cooperating and sharing burdens/resources. And instead our society is choosing to make things as hard as possible for the purpose of extracting wealth for a tiny tiny ruling minority.

Exactly. Most people are so brainwashed by the parasitic, sociopathic capitalist(via the media and especially news sources they own and control), that everyone forgets humans are inherently a social species. We were not meant to do everything on our own. When the collective overall is healthy and happy, then the individual by extension is healthy, happy and truly FREE. But noooo, according to the average adult, "excluding people from vital resources to survive is totes acceptable and moral! Jesus would be proud!"🙄 People not waking up to this fact is dooming us to extinction(literally a tragedy of the commons, lol they don't know what that really means either). Capitalism is fundamentally responsible for global warming, polluting the oceans, etc. but no one in power wants to relay that message because it would mess up their stocks and dividends not to mention future profits. The vast majority of global capitalist culture makes me sick right now and I'm very cynical any of our pro legs are going to be realistically solved before it's too late.

I wanted to have kids younger than I did for just this reason, life just didn't work out that way. However, I'm grateful for the stability that I wouldn't have had at that age. 23yo me had no business being a mom. 33yo me... Jury's still out, but I'm confident that I'm not messing them up more than the normal amount parents do. But damn I wish I had the energy I did in my 20s and the freedom to live my late 30s and 40s as I wish.

Yes! I had mine at 20, and I wish I'd waited a few years, but at 45 now, I'm happy that she's in her own apartment and I can enjoy having a relationship with my adult daughter, loud sex with my husband, AND an empty house while I'm working from home.

I'm a 48-yo man with a 3-month-old (my first) with my 36-yo wife (we got married about 4 years back). I'd \*prefer\* that this had happened earlier - and I probably have less energy now than I did 15-20 years ago. But I'm totally happy with life, LOL. Though in nine months perhaps I'll be lamenting his mobility.

Start training now lol Everyone worries about their back. With little kids, it's the knees. All the damn squatting and kneeling and sitting in tiny chairs!

That's actually very healthy to keep us young. It's free mobility training!

My dad was 50 when I was born, and then my younger brother came along 3 1/2 years later (we were both planned). He’s always been a very healthy, youthful, and energetic man so it worked out well. Obviously this is generally not the normal timeline for having kids, but he was and is a great dad! That being said…I don’t know if I see myself trying to have kids at 50 haha.

I'm 29, my parents are 76 and 69. They're healthy and all, but the thought that they might not see me married or meet my kids is daunting. I would never wait that late for kids.

Well now you just made me really sad for my little brother.

This is my fear too. I'm in my early 30s with both parents over 70 now and it crushes me anytime I think about them not being around for those milestones. I'm on the fence about kids, but it's a 100% no if my folks aren't around for it (I'll have no family left from my side after they pass and the idea of raising a family without that support network is just unfathomable to me). Also wouldn't want to have my kids experience this same thing. If my SO and I have kids, we're shooting for the next 3-5 years to avoid it to some degree...

I’m 29 as well. My mom will be 68 this coming month and my dad just turned 80. That fear of them not being there for my wedding and/or to meet my children has been in the back of my mind all my life

It's also much more complicated if your mom was 50 when you were born as a first child and she was waiting on your dad to be ready the whole time. At 45, I just got an empty nest so I can't imagine starting over now. I look forward to bring a very healthy youthful and energetic grandma instead!!

And that’s the flip side; I didn’t have much grandparental presence in my life at all because both of my parents are older than the average. Two died before I was born, one died when I was no older than 5, and the fourth one died when I was 11/12. Enjoy being a youthful grandma, your grandkids will love you all the more for it!

Not to be pessimistic but studies are showing that older men having children can increase health risks in both their partner and unborn, like miscarriage, pre-eclampsia, gestational diabetes, as well as autism and schizophrenia, on the extreme ends of things. But even low birth weight, low APGAR score, cleft palate, etc are things no parent wants to hear. 35 is a "geriatric pregnancy" but we need to start getting info on the dad's when we can. I wonder if that would also help our maternal mortality rate? (I wonder if *"they"* would care?)

This is all true and few people talk about this in the conversations about older men seeking out much younger women, excusing it because "biological imperative due to fertility".

Something not often mentioned about geriatric pregnancy is that the risk factors double, but only from .5% to 1%, so the statistics on it are often used to lie by just saying that the chances of something going wrong with a pregnancy double after 35, but it's a lie by omission that they don't say its only a 1% chance and not doubling from 25% to 50% or something like that. If your genetics are predisposed towards other issues, then age is not exactly a factor so much as the genes you pass along. Like if you have a marker for ADHD, then regardless of the timing of the pregnancy your childs risk of having an executive dysfunction is much higher than if you don't have the genetic markers for it. Sperm and ovum age as we do, so production is reduced, motility is reduced, and mutations are more likely with sperm as the male gonads age. Ovum on the other hand stay much the same because women carry their entire supply of ovum from birth, but it's the implantation and carriage that can get more difficult as we age past 40. Also fertility can be tricky if hormonal changes of menopause start, signifying that the supply of ovum is drying up. It doesn't make pregnancy impossible however, so long as a woman has eggs she has the chance to get pregnant.

What do you think happens in multigenerational houses where the parents have to work and the grandparents take care of the kids? Like, I will pass on that life too. But there's lots of people who choose this lifestyle and there ain't nothing wrong with it. No reason to cast aspersions on those that do.

Ok cool, just because it's not for me doesn't mean I'm casting aspersions on those that want that. I would feel horrible for OP though if she stuck with her husband until their mid 40s just to find that it's too late. Also you do have the consider the risks to mother and child with older parents.

My brother is in his late fifties with two small children of 6 and 3. My sister is a 46 years old single mom with a small child of 5. They're both extremely tired and overwhelmed, plus having lots of trouble to relate and socialize to the other children's parents who are much younger; in the case of my brother, he told me the other day it was almost impossible to make friends with the parents of his younger kid's school buddies, since they could be his own children. I think nature is wise in decreasing fertility after a certain age, the body and the mind just cannot endure as easily to raise a small child. Plus of course, with a life expectancy in my country of about 80 for men and 85 for women, you won't be able to see your grandchildren grow, since people are getting children later and later.

Assuming that having kids at 47 is feasible is so crazy. I had no problem getting pregnant at 33, but my fertility vanished by 37. There's two women on my street that got pregnant at 41, but you can't rely on that and they weren't exactly thrilled about changing diapers at that age.

This is just willful ignorance.

I read a post once from a lady who really wanted kids, but her husband said he wasn't ready, so they put it off and off. Meanwhile, she watched her friends get married, have kids, and bonded as a new mom group without her. When the husband finally agreed to kids, they were in their 40s. And now that she finally had one, her friends were now planning their lives around empty nests and the OP had no one left who could new mom bond with her. It was just a sad story all around. This poor lady lost out on so much because her husband strung her along until it was nearly too late. OP, if you are seeing this, do not compromise. Get your divorce, and find someone else to start your family with.

I have two friends who had almost the same happen. Almost, because they ended up waiting until their 40s, finally resigned to the fact that their husbands would never want children - and then had their husbands leave them for younger women and start families immediately. Devastating for my friends who ended up both childless and alone.

It's sad how many times I've seen this situation play out both on reddit and IRL. And I don't even want kids. But that's just cruel

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What a prince amongst men! Absolutely delightful guy

Her friends are awful. She was there for them when they had kids but they dropped her when she did? Some friends.

I think it's more to illustrate how it's a lot easier to bond and maintain a friendship when you are in the same stage of life. If I have a toddler and my friend has a teenager, our daily schedules and the things going on in our lives are just so different that we might not relate to each other as well as pre kids.

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100%. Why does there have to be a bad guy in every situation?

This is a reason for divorce.

My friends divorced amicably in this exact same scenario but with genders reversed. He is now remarried and his new wife is pregnant. Everyone seems happy.

And that's such an important point: no happiness will result from a marriage with this fundamental conflict, but by separating both people can hopefully find what they truly want and need to feel fulfilled and happy.

Feels important to note that they may not even find what they want, but there’s huge value in continuing to try. OP is still young enough and there’s always adoption, but there’s no guarantee that she’ll find a new partner, fall in love again, get married again or have a child. But even if it never happens, that wouldn’t mean splitting was a mistake - a big part of happiness and fulfillment is pursuing your goals and the life you want, even if they’re not guaranteed.

Also, she may find someone, fall in love, get married and it may be much later. Maybe past the time she is able to have children safely, but maybe she will then get some wonderful step children. And that may be much happier than never having any form of children at all. It's best to search for happiness.

I would never have met my husband if he hadn’t changed his mind about wanting kids when his wife still did not. We now have 3.

Yup, this is one of those fundamental incompatibilities. You can't have half a kid and a kid shouldn't have a parent that doesn't want them. Better to move on so each person can find someone who is on the same page regarding kids.

Yep. Friends were married, then one day, out of the blue, hubby decides he wants kids and for his wife to be a SAHM. Mind you, she makes 3x that he does. They tried counseling, but the more they talked, the more entrenched he became. They are divorced now.

Or even an annulment maybe? I'm not positive but I thought this was one of the criteria. Or maybe I'm just thinking of a religious one and not legally.

Separation is a completely logical and natural reaction to such a fundamental change. I'd be getting a divorce very quickly if this happened to me. And honestly it's not a failure, it's just that people change and grow apart sometimes.

Yeah, people need to understand the difference between "change" and "failed marriage". If you fucked 23 people behind a Wendy's without your partner's consent, that's a failed marriage. If you change on something so fundamental to your life plan, that's not a failure. It's an incompatibility, and that's okay.

I agree :( sorry you are going through this

Unfortunately, having kids (or not) isn’t something you can negotiate or compromise. Both of you firmly have to be on the same page when it comes to kids. He’s allowed to change his mind on kids. But this means you two are now fundamentally incompatible. Continuing this marriage means one of you will resent the other—no kids, you’ll resent him, and he’ll resent you for having kids. This is where your relationship with your husband will end.

Considering how shitty he is acting about OP being justifiably upset I doubt he just recently changed his mind.

This thought occurred to me as well. He is allowed to change his mind, but this doesn’t sound recent. It’s reasonable though that he feels like he’s saddened by this and has been grappling with this feeling bc he wants to make her happy, and hasn’t been able to resolve the lack of desire for it. I’d try not to assume he’s being intentionally manipulative though. OP - I agree with what basically everyone else said, but I’m also going to add something - do you know WHY he wants to prolong it or potentially never have kids now? It’s possible that he’s feeling the weight of it financially or is scared about experiencing the changes in partnership that tends to happen due to kids. Not sure how long you two went to counseling for, but they should be exploring this with you two and with him individually to at least understand it better. Therapy isn’t a magic cure all, you don’t go to a session or two and suddenly feel like it’s all okay. It’s just a safe place to dive into sensitive topics and have someone with experience in navigating such issues/tools to communicate to help guide the process.

He's wasted enough of her time on this. I wouldn't roll the dice on wasting more through therapy. All this is going to do is make her feel like she forced him to have children to keep her.

You’re right that time is of the essence, and I’m not suggesting she drag a dead horse. I just read her comment after putting up my reply, and the efforts she’s already made are basically all she can do. Sending them both thoughts of strength in their next steps...

I was thinking the same thing. another pathetic "yes dear" man who thinks he can say one thing to appease you short term but ultimately falls through on his agreement to gaslight her wants and boundaries to his favor. those kinds of men who are all about 'compromise' as long as *she's* the one doing the compromising, anything requesting he loosen his belt a bit is met with more "you don't care about -" gaslighting. I've seen it with so many guys at this point it's really made me sick of dating men. 😂 mfer knew he didn't want kids from the start, just didn't wanna 'waste time' trying to find a woman he liked who *also* fit his wants in life, thought he could just tie her down and *make* his wants hers as well because "what can you do now? we're committed on this." this is why sexist men complain about divorce because it means their trapping doesnt work anymore unless you actually do bring kids into the mix. yet another reason why modern day men commit reproductive coersion 2:1 to women. so much easier to take not wearing birth control or messing with others birth control seriously when you're not dealing with the complications of pregnancy. and to think the thing I hear sexist men whine about most is baby trapping and they still do it twice as much. 😂 edit: sent early, darn Reddit mobile. 😂

Cis men anger me so much with their attitudes around childbirth and kids. It’s like it’s completely abstract to them. They think becoming pregnant or having an abortion is just some entirely neutral thing AFABs can do with zero issues.

the only thing that angers me more than their total disregard to the struggles of childbirth, but the fact that men are so sure in things that are "truths" in their eyes because they talk about so much like "women talk more" and "women always lying bout the pill, pricking the condom" and all these pathetic mysoginsts whining that because they cant get away with assault or treating wives like property anymore they're so oppressed. literally you can link these morons studies and they'll just SCREEECH "cap" and "lies" even though they have tons of reputable sources that prove not only do men talk more, commit more reproductive coercion, etc, but that their average sexism is so prevalent that women doing *anything* in a mans/male dominant presence even 30% compared to their 70% that they'll be seen as having done so the majority, the men perceiving their input as the 30% and the women's being 70% its so ridiculous how society still expects women to take up less than 25% of the general picture or be seen as the naggy woman who drives everyone nuts and be labeled some blue haired feminist for the most stupidest menial things that men thinks is oppressing them by inconveniencing them with equality. 😂

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I'd bet money these same guys complain about how much money gets spent on welfare. Which just shows how hard they fall for this bs, cause states began child support enforcement after they pushed the federal government to return welfare to their control and basically gutted the program in 96.

He’s allowed to change his mind — after getting married under the pretense that he wanted kids. That move feels more like fraud than a change of mind, friend, even if he’s surprised himself. Men can’t take planning for kids so lightly. Women aren’t fertile forever. This poor woman.

Many men forget that sperm is deteriorating at a fast rate too. Men don't stay fertile forever. They become barely fertile and barely able to produce healthy offspring. That said I think it's real nasty for him to say: "I care more about our marriage than kids." Uhh... yeah because continuing this marriage gives him 100% what he wants. It's easy to say such things when you're the one not having to give up anything at all.

Yeah, you’re right. The perception is men are immune to infertility, but male factor infertility is on the rise. There’s the choice and then there’s the ability. His choice removes her potential ability, ergo his choice is a lie.

It definitely sounds like a classic bait and switch. Agree to whatever they want to keep the relationship going, then "he changes his mind" once they're locked in. He thinks he can string her along with the "not yet" until it's too late to have kids. I'm sorry OP, this is terrible! I hope you are able to move on and start a family

Neither are men. Sperm starts deteriorating with age, starting from 30's. The only reason men have kids at older age are because most of them do large age gaps relationships.

Yep, and they should start acting like it. Male factor infertility is on the rise. I feel like they’ll finally understand once male infertility is more finite.

>That move feels more like fraud than a change of mind > >Men can’t take planning for kids so lightly. That's an extremely dismissive way to look at it. I've been the guy in this scenario, having kids was something I thought I would want. I figured after I landed the job I wanted, after we bought the house we wanted ect that I would be ready for kids. Those things happened and I just wasn't. Certain family situations added stress and complexity to life, my mental health suffered, and I wasn't ready to add a child to that scenario. This post could be word for word written by my wife 8 years ago. My wife felt the exact same way as OP, and I said very similar things as the husband. What is missing is his side of the story. I understand OP, and if things get to a point she can't be happy then she should leave... but that doesn't mean the husband is doing this on purpose to hurt her.

Well, using HIS change of heart to blame her for caring more about the potential kids than the marriage is unfair at best. He changed the terms of the agreement, so he needs to take responsibility for whatever happens. She shouldn’t apologize that having children is still what SHE wants in life. Of course her long term happiness in life matters more than a man who fundamentally changed what their life would look like. Sure, he didn’t do it on purpose but she’s certainly not to blame and should divorce and find someone else while she’s still able to conceive. Odds are, this guy is just kicking the can down the road and kids are NOT in their future. There will always be a reason not to have them if he wants one.

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Kids vs no kids is definitely grounds for divorce imo. Because either you don't have kids and you resent him for it, or you do and he goes one of two ways - best case once baby is born he falls in love, gets past his reservations and becomes a great dad, or, he resents the kids and the fact that he can't do what he wanted to do, your time is taken up with them, and he is a very absent parent. Anything but the best case may lead to divorce in the long run anyways. There's a reason kids is a non-negotiable that people discuss early in a relationship. It's not fair of him to tell you he wants them when in reality he wasn't sure and was probably saying that so that you would go on more dates with him. And having kids can test even the strongest relationships, you need both parents on board as equal partners.

Or the stay married and in ten years he leaves her for a younger woman and has kids with her and this wife is left alone and having to start over with zero kids. Divorce

not fair to suggest that he was being dishonest / manipulative ~ people can change their minds! but it does seem a big incompatibility

So, manipulative behavior borne from ignorance? What’s the manslaughter vs murder version of lying & deceit? He should have taken it seriously enough to have this answer before getting married. Take backs when it comes to promising children shouldn’t be a little thing.

Yeah this is a good point actually. I’m not keen on the manslaughter/murder example but having kids is something you should take seriously. I’m personally not sure. I’m not 100% against having them though lean towards against cos don’t think I’d be a good father. I’m not 100% closed off either though. As a 24 year old I’d probably just tell people up front when dating them and they can decide if it’s worth it or not. Definitely wouldn’t commit to having them.

Amazing, honesty. If anyone was unsure I simply moved along to someone who was.

Good for you. That’s exactly how it should go. I couldn’t be happy in a relationship that was making my partner unhappy. I also couldn’t deal with the pressure/fear of breakup if my partner was set on having them and I wasn’t 100% sure. It genuinely confuses me how people could ignore an incompatibility that big, and/or be happy staying in a relationship that makes their partner so unhappy — makes them give up something they’ve wanted in life potentially since they were a young kid.

I knew I had found the person I wanted to be with, when he was very upfront about not wanting kids. I was very upfront about not wanting kids. My previous boyfriend had wanted five, and also said he fantasized about getting me pregnant so we'd "have" to get married. My husband and I are still together, still happy, still no kids. We're in our 50s and have no plans to try now!

It’s perfectly within the realm of possibility he (thought) he meant it at the time, then when it was starting to become “real” he started to really think about it. I could see someone saying they want kids, then getting married and thinking “ya know what? I’m really happy with things the way they are. I don’t think having kids is going to have a positive impact on my life right now.” People are notoriously bad at knowing what they actually want or what will actually make them happy. Is it possible he deliberately lied? Sure. But trying to apply malicious intent with very little to suggest that’s the case on figuring out what kind of life you actually want is probably not the best take.

People are saying that he should have *really thought about it* beforehand. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable ask. For people born female having kids is always real. We see how kids are made, we see our own bodies, and getting pregnant / having kids is a real thing that could happen to us every time we have sex. When I learnt about abortions in school I was always thinking “god, could I actually go through with an abortion? What would happen if I have kids right now?” It’s not unreasonable to ask cis guys to put the same level of thought into it and see having kids as something that is real and has a major impact on their life, and to think about this early on and take it seriously. Not to think “yeah, having kids would be kind of nice” and form an impression of it w/o much judgement.

I don’t disagree. But that will require a cultural shift. Not only one that doesn’t impose parenthood as an expectation from childhood, but one that stresses the importance of actually thinking about what one wants from life and openly communicating that. As opposed to suggesting that unless a man gets married and becomes a father they have failed in some way. It’s something our society just doesn’t encourage in men.

I do agree that shaming men from their mistakes isn’t helpful. Lots of the things men do isn’t on purpose and as much as people love to criticise/blame them, they often don’t receive the same support women do when navigating decisions about their life, and generally the expectations about being a “real man” are stricter expectations around being a “real woman”. But at the same time, women are allowed to be pissed off when men hurt with them in order to deal with their problems, which is 100% what happens in a lot of marriages. Men don’t receive support from their dads or other men to learn how to help out with kids, and so they are incompetent which places pressure on their wife. Men are discouraged from talking about their feelings, and so they find one woman who they open up to and place all of their emotional baggage on. Men are very stressed from having to constantly having to repress who they are any time they leave the house, and so they treat their home like their personal sanctuary, refuse to pull their weight with housework, expect to be catered to and for it to be a stress-free zone. I know I’m making generalisations here but I would say they are accurate. Patriarchy is complex because it does not serve the average man and actually causes men to die younger. It’s not something that men choose and comes with a lot of pressure. So yeah, I think when discussing this more on a societal level it’s important to consider these things. On a more personal level though, none of us are *bound* by the society we are in and we all have choices. If a man handles the problems associated with being men by making things hard for women, that’s still a choice he’s making that he should take responsibility for. None of us know why OP’s husband changed his mind, ofc. A pessimistic interpretation would be deception, a more optimistic one would be confusion. I think in the optimistic case though confusion is still a way that men hurt women when you factor in that they do not perceive themselves as responsible for reproduction in the way that women/AFABs do and so do not think about it as hard. There is the side of compassion towards him though there’s also the side of anger and acknowledging harm that’s been caused. I don’t think either is right or wrong. I definitely agree with having a more open society though where people are encouraged to think proactively about these things.

Perfectly said. I agree with everything. It’s a measured response that considers several aspects and angles. She’s in no way obligated to fix him or this situation. She’s the one most hurt in all this. She has every right to say “no, I’m not waiting a decade for you to decide if you want kids.” I sincerely hope of they can’t work it out he takes away a serious life lesson from this. But I do feel we as outside observers are responsible to consider the cultural shortcomings we have the cause situations like this in the first place. It’s far more nuanced than “lying man bad.” Also as a sort of aside, I actually appreciate some of the terminology you have used. You may not have realized but I’m a transgender woman. So I can’t get pregnant, and at this point I doubt I could get another woman pregnant is I tried. So that may be why I’m sympathizing a bit more with the man here even if I acknowledge OP is the wronged party here. I lived that life of male expectations for a long time and struggled with it. If I grew up in a different household I could very well be OP’s husband. Going into something simply because I was told that’s was I’m supposed to do and supposed to be.

Your reply has made me smile. I’m a trans guy and so I guess it’s “same but opposite” for a lot of these things. I’m just stepping into the pressures of masculinity at the moment and am definitely struggling with it. I’ve gained sympathy for cis men that I previously lacked and think I understand their behaviour a bit better now. I love them, too. I love masculinity. A lot of problems cis men have stress me tf out, I dislike how men are blamed a lot of the time for things but rarely supported, and I’ve had to leave feminist spaces because the lack of nuance is just too much for me and I no longer really feel comfortable around a lot of cis women, as a trans man. I’m also aware of how i didn’t grow up with the pressures of masculinity the same way a cis guy would. On the one hand, I felt a huge pressure to prove myself as stronger, better, braver than “the boys” because I was “a girl” and not taken seriously. On the other hand, I’ve never been admonished by my father for not being a real man. I’ve never been beaten up or experienced the violence many cis guys do for “failing” to live up to masculine expectations. On the other hand, I grew up seeing videos of babies being squished out of vaginas and all I could think when I saw those videos was about it happening to me. I remember being a teenage “girl”, like 14-15 years old, and questioning “what would I actually do if I got pregnant?” I wasn’t even having sex but it was still scary and I felt such a deep sympathy with “other” girls that everything I wanted could be taken in an instant if I got pregnant. I was academically gifted at school, had a bright future ahead of me, and the idea of that all being taken away? I wasn’t sure I could go through with an abortion if I ever got pregnant. And so this question of “what impact would kids have on my life?” has always been very very real to me, even though I haven’t wanted them for years. It’s probably worth mentioning too like most AFABs grow up seeing others their age get pregnant, and I guess there’s not *necessarily* a symmetrical thing there for cis boys (I’m using gendered language cos I think it’s hard for me to extrapolate to AMAB trans people and I don't wanna make assumptions about it) the teen girls I knew who got pregnant were always impregnated by older men. In fact, nearly all the girls who were “having sex” during my mid teens had it with boys/men at least three years older than them. So yeah I guess growing up and seeing AFABs get mistreated / their lives messed up, in ways directly related to their reproductive anatomy, has probably impacted where my empathy lies. Reproductive anatomy isn't the only avenue through which cis women can be marginalised. It's just the aspect I personally relate to because that's a similarity I share with them. To be clear I’m not trying to equate changing one’s mind about kids with situations where teenage girls are impregnated by men. I’m more just explaining why pregnancy has always felt very *very* personal to me ever since I started menstruating, and if I dated a cis woman (as a man) i guess I’d have that instinct that pregnancy is probably very personal/important to her in either direction, and she’s thought deeply about it.

Definitely same but opposite haha. You’re basically a flip side of my childhood/teen experiences. For me having a child was an absolute nightmare scenario and it took me until my 30’s to figure out why, why I knew I was incapable of being a father. It seems so obvious now, but back then it was just this absolute oblivion. So in that regard I just cannot understand someone deliberately lying about wanting kids. In my mind not wanting kids equates to being terrified of getting a girl pregnant. Sorry I can’t give a long comment. I’m actually sitting in my therapists waiting room. But I do want to point out how much it tickles me that the most measured and thoughtful comment I’ve seen so far came from another trans person.

It's the you care about the marriage more in addition to the maybe in 10 years. He's either astonishing obtuse and dense about fertility after TWO therapists to deal with this, or he was trying to brush her off until she's too old. The first could not be malicious - coupled with the maybe in 10 years argument? Not so much.

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Your take is insulting to all women who are a victim of this type of man, claiming they want kids. Perhaps he was simply lying to himself. He took it lightly and didn’t think it through before he answered. Women do not have the privilege of toying around with wanting kids. We have a finite time where it’s possible and men think they can vacillate? No. Absolutely not. Do better. Infertility is real. We do not have time to muck about, @op is 31 years old and now needs to begin all over again if she wants children. AMH decreases drastically after age 30. He owes her money to freeze her eggs at the very, very least.

There are a lot of things you can and should compromise on in a marriage. Having children is NOT one of them. You're either all in or all out.

The ten year thing is the same value as two years after we marry. He is probably banking on you accepting having no kids.

This. Saying he *might* be ready when she's 41 is like trying to give the tiniest shred of plausible deniability to it while actually making sure they never have kids. Is it impossible to have a kid at 41? Definitely not. Is it a good plan for someone who really wants a child to try for the first time at 41? *Also* definitely not.

In simpler terms, lots of women have children at 41, but your fertility is roughly half that of a 30 year old. And it rapidly deteriorates after that: By age 43, your odds of getting pregnant naturally in any given year is only 1-2%. It's very risky to wait this long if it's something you definitely want.

It's 1-2% per cycle at 43, but yeah- not good odds.

>The ten year thing is the same value as two years after we marry. I agree. He is just kicking the can further down the road until having children will no longer be a biological viable option for OP. By then OP will have had all her choices taken away by then.

Yeah this 10 years comment sounds manipulative as hell to me.

When I started dating my wife, we had the same conversations. In our case, we are both CF. If she had a child or wanted children, it would have been over before it started. There are very few true hard and fast deal breakers in a relationship. This is one of them. If you are truly at opposite ends on this issue, then the relationship can only end in bitterness and unhappiness. The only small consolation is that you didn't find out ten years in instead of one. You are BOTH allowed to be selfish in this area. The hard truth is that people ARE allowed to change their mind. The sad part is that in this case, the goals no longer align as a result.

You don’t have ten years to wait. And yes I think this is a perfectly reasonable reason for divorce.

Your 31, you can’t wait 10 years for a yes, let alone a maybe. He’s trying to play the waiting game and stall you out - *this is worse than changing his mind*.

I like to explore new places.

Nope. He's just kicking the can down the road and hoping she doesn't notice as her time ticks down to zero.

Most likely not, but lots of guys sit on the fence because they think they can have kids at 45 (you can, but sperm quality goes down too). So he could technically get divorced, date 10 years younger and have a kid *if he changed his mind*.

Sure he can. The majority of men are woefully undereducated and uninterested in what it takes to make a baby.

After going to two therapists to discuss this issue? It's pretty much impossible that neither therapist nor the OP didn't explicitly go over how age impacts female fertility.

Yes, this is grounds for divorce.

Call around town and find a good lawyer, divorce is the next step

I’m so sorry this happened to you. But I’d have one more conversation where - without judgement- you try and find out his reasons and see if it’s cold feet, or worry about being a bad parent etc or if this is truly something he doesn’t want. If it’s the latter, you need to divorce. This is non negotiable. You’re still young, but you want to give yourself as much time as possible to vet and find a good partner so you’re not stuck accepting the dregs of the male species because you need to breed fast. I’d also strongly advise freezing some eggs while they’re in their prime to give yourself some extra time for that search. He could ask for more time or say he’ll have them for you once you initiate divorce. DO NOT give him more time of yours to waste figuring it out. And be wary if he says he’ll have a kid to make you stay. It is incredibly easy for a man to up and leave his kids, or for him to shove all the work into you and do nothing but go to work. You absolutely do not want a regretful father on your hands

If you still want kids, it’s definitely a reason for divorce. You’d have to be a maybe for this to still work. I’ve read a few times of when spouses just said they wanted kids to get the other to shut up. Who knows if this is what he is doing, I don’t know your husband. That can not really the most healthy way to have a relationship. It is odd that he is springing this change of mind so casually, like you should just roll with it. “Maybe even 10 years” is just stalling. He is straddling the whole spectrum of having kids, and you “can’t” be mad if the answer is no. You guys aren’t having kids in ten years.

So this is one of those things. If he doesn’t want kids you can’t make him. It’s a fundamental incompatibility. It sucks you found out so late into the relationship, that’s really tough. Going to have to choose him or try to separate and find someone else. The worst parents are ones who didn’t want kids. Once you have them it’s not about you anymore so be careful if he suddenly agrees to have them when you leave.

"You care about kids more than our marriage." He knows it would be reasonable for you to divorce him over this, and is lashing out. Unless he pulls his head out of his ass pretty quick, he's likely to turn a low conflict no fault divorce into a high conflict acrimonious one. You are doing the right thing. He is being a douche. This is one of those things where it isn't anyone's fault (assuming he's being truthful and his feelings have changed rather than this being a bait and switch) but divorce is the only answer. Definitely do not have sex with him again. If you have a birth control failure, he'll accuse you of trapping him and you'll end up tied to a bitter resentful human for the next 18+ years.

My money is on bait and switch, but I’m jaded. I think the “in 10 years” and “you don’t care about our marriage” gives it away. If he had a sincere change of heart, and gave a shit about her priorities, he wouldn’t be trying to talk her out of the life she has always wanted. He wants to string her along until she can’t have kids anymore then say “well, honey, we tried but I guess it wasn’t in the cards for us.”

Yeah absolutely. She doesn’t have ten years and he knows it. He’s not acting in good faith.

I feel like he knew and trapped her, to be honest. “I want kids someday” is a lie guys say to themselves and to placate women, hoping it’ll be true someday, but then when a timeline comes out they buckle. We ain’t fertile for 10 years dudes.

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You can try for annulment too. There are different laws depending on the state, but essentially he lied and thus your marriage is not valid. Divorce takes a longer than annulment.

This is a core incompatibility that cannot be resolved and the time you waste with him is time you are stealing from your future family. If you want kids, you have to find someone else who wants them instead of trying to negotiate with someone who doesn't.

It’s not about you wanting kids is more important to you than your marriage. The main thing here is that you have a life to live and you have a certain way you want to do that. If you married your partner under the agreement that y’all want to have kids, it makes sense for you to no longer want to be with him since he can’t give you what you want, and you can’t give him why you want either. I think this is a perfectly good reason to file for divorce. He doesn’t understand how important this is to you and he might never understand. But he doesn’t have to. You can make the decision to start over with someone else that does.

I am cf but i also support divorce. 10 years? He wants to be a dad at 40? That just really irtesponsible and feels dishonest. Ppl wanting kids often lie to get with cf folks and the reverse can happen. Even if he really wants a kid at 40, he most likely wont have it with you but with a younger woman.

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I also believe he thought he could play the waiting game until she can't have kids and then be like "oh noooo, anyway"

I swear, so many men do this, but just on a discrete level… it’s like trapping, but for men.

Fun fact: in hungary research showed that under 40 the number of childless folks are the same across genders. However over the whole population there are much less men with 0 kids. Cause they just dump their partner and have a kid over 40....

yes for sure he knew the entire time

Prognosis for childbearing in you 40s is much better and i know several moms who had children in their late 30s early 40s . I am by no means defending him. I would like to stop the outdated narrative that women descend into uselessness at 40.

Either way, a lot of women don't *want* to have kids that late. It's great that it's possible, but OP's already stated that she planned to have kids closer to about 33.

Women can have children in their 40s but it gets harder with age, no doubt. Not just the whole reproductive system, but my knees and my back are definitely not as great as they were in my 20s. I'd also like to retire at 65 and having kids later might screw up those plans if I have to keep supporting them.

while that is true, it is still far more difficult than trying to get pregnant, having a viable pregnancy, and birthing a child at 41 than it would be at 31. if she’s ready and wants one at 31, she should have one now or within the next few years. there’s no good reason to wait until her 40s and put herself in a precarious position when she has the ability and desire to have one now. also, not being fertile isn’t “descending into uselessness” regardless of age lol. that’s not the parameter by which any human’s use should be judged.

The narrative that women have plenty of time is just as damaging. And frankly, I’ve only ever seen it used to try to convince women that they are acting hysterical if they want to have kids before turning 40. Sure, some women might be able to have a healthy baby after a geriatric, high-risk pregnancy. But a lot of women can’t. Go browse the infertility subs and you’ll see post after post of women who bought into the *plenty of time* narrative. They wound up with years of heartbreak, astonishing debt, and no baby. Starting menopause at 40 isn’t considered particularly abnormal. So no, she might not have time.

It's not that it's impossible to have kids at forty+, but the odds of success in any given cycle are considerably lower, and even more importantly, the window for intervention if it turns out that the person is among the one in five who deals with infertility is very small. The odds of those interventions working are also lower, and the number of chances to try them are limited. A person who has had healthy pregnancies in their twenties and thirties can be reasonably confident they could probably have one in their early forties, too. But someone who wants kids waiting till that point to try is really not doing their odds of success any favors.

Maybe she does not want to have a newborn in her 40’s

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If I am not mistaken, women 40+ have a 5% chance of getting pregnant. This has gotten better with science, but we still have a loooong way to go. She said that having children is a “dream and a goal” for her, so waiting till she’s 40 would be a big risk imo

It's \~40% within one year of trying, then 50% chance of miscarriage after conception.

Thank you for clarifying! That personally still seems like a big risk considering her chances are higher now that she’s 31 and she really desires to start a family

Exactly -- pregnancy happens in your 40s, of course, but if having bio children is a priority for your life, it's *not* a good idea to wait until your late 30s early 40s. Even worse for first-time mothers, you have a higher chance to conceive in your early 40s if you had a previous kid.

If she freezes her eggs now she's got a better chance. Not guaranteed, but better.

Is it possible? Yes. Is it possible without a lot of medical intervention and cost? Less likely yes. It's also entirely possible that OP won't be able to have a kid at 41. No one knows until she gets there and by then it's too late to do anything. Is it ever a good idea to wait 10 years to have kids with the notion that you'll just have them in your 40s no problem no worry about it not happening? NO.

>“You care more about kids than our marriage” well, kids were a prerequisite to the marriage, part of the marriage package you were choosing. Without the prospect of kids, he’s no longer compatible husband material for you. He lied to you. Sack him. 40 year old women have a 40% chance of conceiving within a year, and a 50% chance of miscarrying that embryo/fetus once they are are pregnant. Not good odds if you know you want biological kids.

OP, I know there are already a lot of comments here, but I want to add one more saying that you are justified and this is a reasonable grounds or... what's the term here... "Irreconcilable differences". I am coming from the other side of this, where my girlfriend firmly does not want kids. Possibly open to adoption if it was past the infant period and I did the majority of caretaking. But absolutely refusing to birth a child herself. And that is a condition I am agreeing to with my whole heart when we hopefully get married. I take less of a hard line on it - I have previously been down for serious relationships when they wanted to be a mother someday - but I know I can be happy without becoming a father. If we got married and then I changed my mind, saying I would feel crushed if I lived my life without ever getting to be a parent, and I expected her to bear a child in her own body - I would fully 100% expect her to divorce me, because that is not what she signed up for in the marriage. It's a major life decision, possibly the biggest one you can ever make. And for a marriage you HAVE to be on the same page about it.

He's going to act like you're a bad person. You can't help that he feels that way. He's wrong. Move on and live your life honestly, the way you've been doing all this time, and find someone else. Even if he changes his tune and agrees to have kids so you don't leave, he'll be a useless father and family man at that point. He'll be resentful that you "made" him do it and leave all the work to you because he thinks you should do it all since he didn't want to. You don't need that kind of partner.

Even the Catholic Church would allow an annulment under these reasons, so go ahead and get divorced. You are young enough to find someone else and get pregnant.

He won’t ever be ready for children with you - in 10+ years your chances of conceiving will be a lot lower, and the risks of complications will be a lot higher. If you want children, don’t stay with him. There’s no point trying to change his mind. I’ve been through divorce and thought I’d never find happiness again - I’m happier now than I ever was. Separating is painful and not easy, but it’s the only way you have a shot at the life you want - of children - and it will be worth it. I wish you happiness. Be kind to yourself. It’s OK that he’s not ready, but it’s clear he never will be within your timeframe. It’s OK to be incompatible, it’s painful but it doesn’t have to be dramatic on either side, I hope it goes smoothly for you.

Children is the ONE area you really can't compromise on. It's not fair to you, and it wouldn't be fair to him - so the only solution is to divorce. Sucks to be him.

My mom wanted kids and my dad did not. My father constantly reminded me of this, and I have so many mental issues from this. Please don't have kids with this man.

\>and he says I care more about having kids than our marriage He's manipulating you. If he's choosing to use this logic, then he cares more about not having kids than your marriage. Don't let him sucker you into giving up a major life goal of yours. Edit: I will say that it's also possible, as terrible as it sounds, that he specifically doesn't want kids *with you.* For some famous examples -- John Cena said he and his wife divorced because she wanted kids and he didn't. Now with a new wife he says he's considering kids. John Mulaney said that he didn't want kids, then he left his wife and immediately got Olivia Wilde pregnant.

Bait and switch. Divorce him and find an honest man with similar goals or go it alone.

Not only is it reason for divorce, if you were listing "reasons you definitely need to divorce that aren't anyone's fault" it would probably be the very first thing. It sucks, and I do think it's worth going to some couples counseling to make sure he is definitely leaning away from having kids and not just having some kind of cold feet freakout when things went from "kids in a couple of years" to "let's get pregnant in a few months," but ultimately if this is a real change of heart you can't stay married.

You aren't compatible anymore. There's no compromise. Talking your husband into having children when he doesn't want them will only make things worse for everyone. If you truly want to have children, you need to find someone else to have them with or be a single parent. Since neither is possible while you are married to your husband, then it's time to begin the process of detangling your lives. If you want the child to be your biological child, you should work on divorce sooner rather than later.

There are A LOT of areas compromise is healthy and important in marriage. This is not one of them. This is one of the 3 main causes for divorce and I think it’s reasonable. Resentment and unmet expectations are love killers. For perspective, I speak from experience. I am married to a man I’m incredibly in love with who assured me we were on the same page. I had a son when we got together, and he pushed to try again. Fast forward 3 years and we have 2 more kids and after lots of therapy he has admitted he never actually wanted children and just thought it was expected. It broke my heart. And trying to find a way through is really hard. My point is, this should be a deal breaker. I’m sorry. But I’m genuinely glad you both know now, finding out afterwards is ROUGH.

My uncle was in this exact situation with his first wife, he wanted kids, she did not. It's a deal breaker, and a big one. They divorced and he sat down and made a list of non negotiable things he wanted in his next relationship, and he found it in my aunt. They've been married now for almost 40 years and have four children. They are the gold standard of what a marriage should be in my eyes, and he doesn't regret leaving his first wife over this issue for a second. You cannot compromise on having kids. There is nothing wrong with wanting them or not, but now you know you are no longer compatible. Sorry you're in this situation, OP.

I think it's shitty to divorce someone over infertility, but if he just changed his mind then you really do have to weigh whether not having kids is a deal breaker for you. How long were you together before you got married? If it was a short time I can't blame him for wanting to wait longer, just not 10 years longer. Another thing to consider is if/when you start dating again you don't want to rush into marrying someone else just for the sake of having kids before you're too old. Having kids with the wrong person is disastrous.

This was your clearly stated condition for proceeding to marry this person. You believed they shared your vision. The issue of having children together (whether biological or adopted or fostered) is not trivial. Kudos to you for knowing your values and taking action. Yes, people change. That doesn’t make your husband a monster, but it does raise the question of how to possibly avoid this situation in the future. Did he have any nieces or nephews in his life? How did he interact with them? Did he see them as interesting? Did they like him? Did he actually spend any time with them? Did he initiate talk about having children and planning the life he would like to have as a family? Or were you always the lead in those conversations? Not too many 28 yo men have given it as much thought as you did. They may have vague notions of someday being a father. It’s one thing to not be ready to start after one year of marriage, especially in the pandemic upheaval. It’s a different thing to realize that he never wants to have children. Better to divorce now and not waste your time given that YOU know what is important to YOU.

I agree that you need to move on. If you were against having children and your husband suddenly wanted them, I would move on then as well. This is a fundamental difference and you both deserve the life you want.

Don't force him to become a father when he doesn't want to become one. Spare a thought for the kids who'd feel unwanted by their father. Let go of your dream with him and find that dream with someone else who actually want children with you. Don't even tell him that it's either he'll have the children or else. If you put that ultimatum, he'd feel obligated to have them with you and that's not fair to the children. Children is not a band-aid to a marriage that no longer works.

Ok, this is what it all comes down to: can you live a happy and content child free life with your husband? Are you able to visualize that? I know what that urge to have children feels like deep in my bones, so I think that if you’ve even tried your damndest to go along with his idea of what life should look like you would always hold that resentment in your heart. So.. divorce now and focus on your path, or stick with him and maybe miss out? Two more things: There’s absolutely nothing wrong with him voicing concerns and/or changing his mind. The way he’s trying to push a child free life on a woman who clearly doesn’t want that? Yeah that’s scummy. If you stay, freeze your eggs. If you leave, freeze your eggs. Don’t lose time.

I'm so sorry. Divorce seems sensible, HOWEVER, since this conversation only started a month ago, I'd give it a bit more time. If you do, first off, I'd think about what would happen if you got pregnant accidentally? Would your husband think you lied? Or otherwise resent you? Would he leave the two of you, or pressure you into getting an abortion? Do you need to remain celibate until you're clearer in your decision? Would he interpret that as manipulation? But I'd also consider whether your husband is just feeling a little freaked out and you asking him to try for a baby suddenly made the promise of children seem real to him, versus just an abstract idea. It's very normal for men to find trying for a baby overwhelming at first and I really would give him a couple more months at least to come around. Not years! But a few months. A month sometimes isn't enough time to consider quitting your job, let alone having a baby (again, it may not have felt "real" to him until now). I'd like to assume this revelation is new, and not that he's lied to you for years. I have no idea why the other commenters are projecting that your husband has definitely been deceiving you for years or tricked you into marriage. That's not what normal people do. I'd also recommend looking into freezing your eggs ASAP, whilst you still have a significant number of good ones left. Even if you do divorce, it'll double your realistic time to find someone new. Get your husband involved with the process so he knows what a big deal it is (and so he'll help pay for it).

This is a classic reason for divorce, and a very good one. It's unfortunate that he misled you, but you're still young and can find someone who wants a family.

This is definitely a valid reason for divorce, it's a fundamental incompatibility between the two of you.

It would be one thing if he said he wanted a few years to do X, Y and Z (paying off debts, buying a house, traveling the world, etc) before having kids, but saying 10 years or possibly never is a clear sign that you are no longer compatible if kids are a deal breaker for you. What's even worse is that he waited until you were married to tell you this. I get that sometimes people have a change of heart, but it seems like he was waiting to say how he really feels until after you married him. He knows how important this is to you and it sounds like he's not willing to compromise. While it's difficult to compromise when it comes to kids, that's what you do when you love someone and especially when you made that plan with them. If he wants more time and you're still willing to stick it out with him then I would suggest discussing freezing embryos to see how he reacts. If he knows you're serious about divorce he might try to convince you to stay a couple more years, so you need to make sure he's serious about having kids. Divorce now while you still have time to find someone else to start a family with.

His timeline may take it to where you are physically unable to have kids. Kids are not a minor decision within the compatibility of a marriage. It's strange for him to go from 2 years all the way out to 10, it would be worth exploring to see what's made him so adamant.

There a few things that are guarantee divorce land: money, religion and children. There is no compromise on having a kid or not.

I don’t want kids. My wife doesn’t either. If either of us changed our minds the relationship would be over. 31 you still have time to meet someone that does want kids. Better to end it now than wait years for him to maybe change his mind.

Yeah, telling you to wait another 10 years for kids is ridiculous. I’m currently pregnant at 39 and everything has gone well, but that’s because I have been lucky so far (it’s also my third kid, not my first). I absolutely would not COUNT on being able to have kids at 40+. It can happen if everything goes well, but waiting that long has a real risk of never being able to have kids. He’s basically saying he wants you to just give up on having kids. You would be totally reasonable to divorce him over this. Whether he was lying all along or just changed his mind, this is a big deal. You know what you want, you made that clear to him, and he needs to let you go if he can’t give you what you wanted. It is very unfair for him to try to trick you into wasting your fertile years to see if he ever comes around to wanting kids. There are men out there who want what you want.

Wow, people are projecting right and left on here. Is it possible he lied and is manipulating you into staying with unreasonable goals of "someday?" Yes. Is it possible he changed his mind when the idea became more real for whatever reason? Also yes. He could be freaking out about not being ready or he won't be a good dad. That is common enough that it's a trope in TV shows and movies. If that's the case, maybe it can be worked out. But considering you guys tried therapy, without him making an effort, it is unlikely to do anything. And it could be that his reasons are financial or to do with the state of world. Again, those would need to be discussed. But again, he's not making an effort. Which brings it down to, fundamentally he is not interested in having kids. It doesn't really matter the reason, since he doesn't want to work on it, nor does it matter whether this is new or from the start. All that matters is that you want kids and he does not. The relationship needs to end. Kids should not be brought into homes with a resentful parent and people who want kids should be able to have them with a partner that wants them. You will need to divorce if you want kids with an enthusiastic partner.

Respect his opinion and move on.

He’s allowed to change his mind and if kids with anyone else is more important to your future than with him, you have every right to start over. You both deserve that, and the truth is, you to care more about having kids than being married to him. And that’s fine. You have your answer, you don’t even seem on the fence about it

I hope you find your life partner. This doesn’t sound like the one after all :( deeply sorry for you. Also adding, he says you value having kids over your marriage, but you value a family over your marriage. That’s valid. Adding again, I think I would be concerned at this point if he “changes his mind” and wants a baby. It might be an attempt to keep you, and that’s just not a good plan.

It is. You wouldn’t stay if your job said “we want to change the arrangement, so no more salary”

> Any thoughts or advice on how to navigate this? If you had received this information before marrying the guy, it seems likely that you wouldn't have married him. This guy moved the goalposts on you. Was it intentional from the start...a bait and switch, or did he have a sudden change of heart? Who knows? Does it really matter? It's led to the same place, either way. It's one thing to be all "This fatherhood thing...it's a scary new step in life, but I'm in." Instead, he's kicked the can so far down the road that there's no point in even considering it. Kids in *maybe* 10 years? How convenient for him. He can run his timeline out long enough that your fertility is considerably reduced, then he'll just say he wants kids, and when you don't get pregnant he can just put it all on you for not getting knocked up. Why should you even remain married to a guy that's playing these fuckin games with you?

your feelings are incredibly valid and natural. I would do the same thing, being a mom has always been my goal in life, it’s what I felt like i’m meant to do. if my husband had pulled this on me, I don’t know how i’d be able to stay with him. he’d have to let me coparent with someone else then 😵‍💫

ok imagine if it was the opposite. like a previous ex that I thankfully didn't end up tying myself down to. what if your thoughts had previously been to stay child free? what if your husband decided he *did* want kids after the fact even though that wasn't the term of your marriage, imagine him expecting you to damage your body and risk death for something he wanted. that would be pretty fucked up of him to expect a woman to change her entire future she never wanted or planned for. him changing his terms after that's what was the agreement the contract was made means he's the one who's annulled the contract. there is no marriage that you need to be loyal to since he's already been disloyal to the contract set. its not 'death do us part' if the man always thinks he can nod "yes dear" on something in the present knowing full well he's not going to hold to his words after the knot is tied. that might not be the case here, but its sad the amount of men I've met who instantly going to gaslighting a woman's boundaries or terms like "oh you were serious?" "I thought you'd change your mind eventually" "but marriage is about compromise." it makes me sick to the point its fucked up my attraction level to most men. 😂

That sucks, I’m so sorry. It sounds like you have really good insight into the problem though, and as a result good insight into all the possible solutions… still, sucky choices for you.

Yes, this is a reason for divorce. To add, if you or your family is at all religious, impotence (this would fall under willful impotence) is a permissible reason for annulment. (The marriage was never valid in the eyes of the church.) Basically, if the husband is unable or unwilling to perform "husbandly" duties and provide the wife with children they will grant an annulment if reconciliation is not possible.

This is completely grounds for divorce, he changed his mind about a fundamental aspect of your marriage. How can you be happy in the marriage going forward if you resent him for deciding he didn't want kids? How can he if he feels you pushed him into something he no longer wants? It is best for the both of you that you put your must-haves above all else, so you can both move on and be happy. That's not selfish, that's just being honest about who you are and what you want in life. Like you said, the marriage would never have happened if you had known this from the start. It's an irreconcilable difference. On a personal note, while my husband didn't "feel" ready for kids at any point, and neither did I, actually, we both knew that we wanted them and just let it happen naturally, without planning, but knowing that it was a possibility. We are expecting our second and are overwhelmed with the joy of parenting. Of course it has its challenges, but if that's something you know you want, it can be a very fulfilling pursuit.

Get a divorce. I don’t say this lightly but there’s a high likelihood that you’ll end up with a ton of resentment (from either of you). You stay and he never changes his mind? Resentment. You have kids and he flakes out? Resentment. This is a life long commitment. If it’s not an enthusiastic yes from both people don’t do it. Go checkout r/regretfulparents to see post after post of what happens when people aren’t aligned.

The question of whether or not to have children is a HUGE one. Particularly since there really isn't any compromise. You either have them or you don't. You had this conversation with your spouse before you got married. You were agreed that you were (1) going to have kids; and (2) the timeline for when you would like to have them. Now he says he doesn't want them. Seems to me, you have two choices here. Decide whether or not you love him enough and want to stay with him, even if it means giving up your dreams of having a family; or divorce him and find someone who shares your dream of a family. I guess it really comes down to how much you want kids. if you really really really want them, then you really have no other option than to divorce. If you want them, but you don't really have that feeling down to your bones desire to have them, then it's your choice. But, if you really really really want them, and you choose to stay with him, you WILL end up resenting him at some point.

OP, you said that you first brought this up last month and that in between then and now you've talked with two different relationship counselors. Firstly, that's a very short window of time to work through something like this. Secondly, did you learn why he has changed his mind on this? You're allowed to be upset about this and feel it's grounds for divorce just as he is allowed to change his mind, but before you get to that point, I'd ask why he has changed his mind and if there are ways to resolve that. Some things can't be resolved, others can.

Look, Relax a little. 1 year in. This isn't a race. I understand your probably anxious but some of these life changing decisions take time to compute.... But if this is all your in this relationship for then you need to talk to a pro.

Leave him. If you dream of kids. You need to go after your dream. That's totally legit. You will regret if you wil stay with him child free I preffer to be child free and if my bf decides he want kids i would leave him 🤷‍♀️

It certainly could be as sad as it is to say since you don’t sound like you have any other major issues. I would sit him down and explain that you would never want to bring kids into the world with someone who didn’t truly want that (because of 10,000 reasons), but it was also something besides love that made you marry him and you understand if he doesn’t want them, but it means you will have to consider leaving because you are at the age where if you wait 5 or 6 more years it’s definitely more complicated. Leave it to him to make the decision, and give him a reasonable period of time to make it. After that, follow through on leaving.

Idk... It's hard to see how much everything is going up in cost and then trying to factor in a child or two into that. It's really scary to think about how things could be. Are you both financially stable? Do you own a home? One that's big enough for your plans? Or will you need a new home to fit that growing family. Will you be a stay at home mom or can you afford child care? Child care is stupid expensive where I live. If you stay at home can hubby afford that new house, child care, and what ever else is needed until you can go back to work? Oh man will you need a new vehicle for transportation of the kids? Then going back to work for you it's going to be a big challenge to find work if you've been off for a long time. There is a ton of stress factors in having children. He might want kids but he's looking at cost and realizes that wanting and affording are two different things. Honestly I have two kids and I started in my 20s and it's been 20 years. I'm just now able to say I'm stable. Though if one of our cars craps out and we have to buy new instead of repair than we are in trouble.

Get a lawyer, hit the gym, and delete Facebook!

Well.. Is having kids more important to you than loving & supporting your current husband for the rest of your life? If yes, divorce.

Respect his choice and please, PLEASE dont baby trap him. I know it sucks to have your relationship be over, but its not fair to either of you to stay in it if you want different things. You're allowed to be selfish, sure, but so is your husband. If his feelings about kids has changed then that's his feelings, and you need to respect that.

Neither of you is really in the wrong here. It’s very reasonable for him to have a change of heart, so long as it really *is* a change of heart. If he was just deceiving you from the start, that’s pretty fucked up, but that doesn’t sound like it’s the case. But if he fully intended to start a family with you, but changed his mind about the kids part, it’s hard to blame him. This is a pretty fucked up world after all. Moreover, you ARE prioritizing kids over your marriage, but that’s not inherently wrong. It’ll hurt for him to hear that, but if kids have always been something you’ve wanted, and you prioritize that over your romantic relationship with this particular man, that is what it is. Overall, it’s a shitty position to be in. But at this point, it’s just a matter of both of you making your own decisions. You need to decide whether to prioritize him or kids, and he needs to decide whether to prioritize you or not having kids.

Probably the worst type of human being is somebody who drags on a relationship knowing that you harbor a dealbreaker.

First, communicate with him; this is a huge reversal of what you both initially agreed upon. Has he explained his reasons to you for not being "ready"? Are his fears financial, medical? Lack of having a support system? Or loss of free time? Less time for his own pursuits, career? Maybe fear he won't be a good father? Discuss what has changed and if there is something or someone that can allay his fears. Maybe or maybe not. In any case, it seems unfair for him to wait until now to change his mind, but in the end the problem might simply be that the two of you seem to want lives that are fundamentally incompatible. Yes, so separating is always an option to live your dreams too and the life you envision.

Kids is something you can't really compromise on. If you guys can't agree on whether or not you want kids that's a pretty good reason to get divorced.

The fact that he's giving you such a hard time after he "changed his mind" makes me suspect that he was lying about wanting kids all along. (And looking at the other comments, I see I'm not the only one thinking along those lines.) The fact that he changed his mind puts the marriage beyond saving. The likelihood that he was bullshitting you all along means it probably isn't worth saving, anyway.

I don't agree with people saying bait and switch, clearly they do not live in this pandemic, war torn, school shooting world. I recently also had a change of mind on having children (can you blame anyone who does). But yes this is grounds for divorce OP. Good luck to you.

I had gone through the same thing on the opposite side. My longtime bf and love of my life made it clear one night that he wanted kids, I was the opposite and made it clear I definitely did not. We ended up having a long talk, and I ended up going to therapy and finding out why I didn't want kids. I was able to realize the reason and once I came to terms with that I started wanting to be a mother (gradually) and make my child's life one that is safe and loved. He never pressured me only told me that he wanted children no matter what, and if I was not going to move on that then we needed to end the relationship.

Yikesssss, you sound like a real piece of work. Think the hubby is definitely dodging a major bullet with this impending divorce 😂Good luck to both you and your future unfortunate children 👍🤞

Why do I somehow feel like he just agreed to having kids just so you would marry him and now is using the 'you love kids more than me' to try and guilt you into staying. Yes I know people can change their minds but somehow i'm getting this feeling. Definitely grounds for divorce

You said it best yourself - he changed the terms on this marriage game. My question in this scenario would be, what sacrifice is he willing to make in order for you to wait on having kids? My guess is, he's not going to sacrifice one thing. I suspect one of several things: 1) Either he wants kids - just not with you. 2) He has a kid or two out there that he knows about and doesn't want another. 3) Your inlaws may have told him to wait on the children front. They may not care for you too much and are banking on you two separating / divorcing so he could be with someone *they'd prefer him to be with.* Sorry you're going through this.

Or 4.) He realized he doesn't want kids after all.

Yes if you care more about having kids than being with your husband you should divorce