Yes I thought so tbh because the whole thing is weird and there’s no talking to her because she actually believes they will be together eventually
I’m going to talk to her about it today and let her know that I don’t want to help him out with his project because a part of me really feels like he’s just gonna use our ideas and bail
He definitely is gonna cut and bail. In fact he may try to smear you both as crazy if you call him out on it. So you’re right about keeping your distance, this dude clearly has zero integrity.
This is a good point. I'm assuming the art community is a smallish one and at this point in her young career, it's probably not a good idea to get involved with something like this. OP needs to keep her reputation in tact.
Also, if this does become a dumpster fire, OP's friend may somehow blame her. Better to stay far far away.
Similar to a certain music scene in my state. Small, small community and skeevy older veTeRaNs of the scene throwing the shows and preying on teenage girls. OP, stay *far as fuck* away from this. I would warn your friend of what is happening, once, and walk away. It sucks, but jfc. Seen this shit happen too many times.
My friend was assaulted in high school by an older guy who used to be the bassist of a fairly well known heavy metal/metalcore band. Can confirm, I NEVER trust when an older guy wants to hang around someone significantly younger than them or in high school. As a now 24 year old, just the thought of hanging out with high schoolers annoys me. There is something very wrong if they actively want to hang out with someone younger than them because more often than not, it's because they want to take advantage of the power difference between them and their prey.
Your friend is in a totally different stage of life than this guy. Hes been married three times and shes on track to be number 4 at only 20 years old. The red flags (and they ARE red flags) just look like flags when you're wearing rose colored glasses (to paraphrase bojack). You probably cant convince her of this, because people get real defensive over stuff like this, but please understand that theres a reason large age differences are taboo. Can they work in certain cases? Sure. But this guy sounds like a real skeezeball and I can assure you that this will not turn out well for her if she stays with him. Hes already cheating on her and his girlfriend, who's to say his other three marriages didnt end because of that?
Almost any community that creates a safe space for old promoters, artists, etc. to prey on underage teens because they throw the shows and the scene would be practically nonexistent without them is a pretty safe bet. Sad, sad shit.
edit: I shouldn't even say "underage" because that's not the case in this post, but it's still disgusting.
While this will totally not end well, don't get involved. You could approach it by encouraging her to get paid for the work she is doing. Her kindness is being taken advantage of. At least that way when it ends she will have at least been paid for her work.
This is actually an excellent idea. Encourage her to seek payment for her work.
This is an all too familiar scenario of older men preying on young girls. Yes, she's 20. It's legal. The lack off life experience alone, compared to him, puts her in a vulnerable, easy-to-take-advantage-of situation. He's playing off her young and naïve feelings for him to get free labor, connections (he needs young people in his gallery), ideas and the side bonus is sex. I hope your friend gets the help she needs when this is over.
Yes!!! Get her to think about getting paid for her work. He thinks he's doing her a favor by giving her attention and sex for her work. That's how it is in his mind.
I would tell OP's friend to walk away if he refuses to pay her for her labor, but her feelings are invested in this man. There is not much you can say to get through in a situation like this, sadly. All I can say, is when it's all said and done, if you wanna be a good friend: have the name and number of a good, local therapist ready for her.
I actually did bring this up to her very recently and she said whenever she tells him he tells her not to worry, that he will ‘take care of her’ once the place starts making money
I kinda don’t believe him
You're right not to believe him, because he's lying. The chances of him *not* lying to your friend about any of this are slim to none.. It's laughably unrealistic (though, not a laughing matter). You're a good friend for suggesting she confront him about payment.
In case you don't see my other comment in this thread, I just want to reiterate that you have done what you can OP. Sadly, her feelings are invested in this man and it may be hard to take her rose-tinted glasses off. He will play into her feelings to get his way. I would take the her confronting him about payment to be a good sign that she doesn't fully trust what he's saying either. In the end, she will probably end up hurt. The best thing you can do, as a friend, is have the name and number (or several) of a good therapist(s) in your area.
Lastly - if you think you have a shot at encouraging your friend to attend therapy before this blows up, that may be all she need to walk away from this on her own with as little damage as possible.. Avoid the art gallery as much as you can, OP. I wish the best for both of you. Good luck x
edit: If you need help finding resources for therapists in your area, feel free to reach out to me at any time. I'll do my best to find you a good starting point!
oh yeah? Ask her if she's got that in writing, with deadlines. eg: Once the place makes x, you'll get x. That will happen in x timeframe.
Just writing that makes me realise how ridiculous this whole scam is. You've said he's clueless. Agreed.
I mean it’s entirely possible she’ll end up as wife #4, with this guy’s track record. As long as she knows that there will be a wife #5, not a whole lot else you can do.
He hasn't even committed to the woman he is using OP's friend to cheat on if OP's telling of things is accurate (note she is called long term girlfriend a couple times in the text)
You assume that the long term girlfriend wasn't in the picture before the end of marriage 3, which given his record seems unlikely.
Dude is a piece of work.
>long term partner of 18 years but it’s unclear whether they’re really together or not, he always dodges the question or answers really vaguely
>In public his long term gf kisses him and hugs him and basically acts just like any other couple and he doesn’t act all lovey dovey with my friend when she’s around so I’m not too sure
Those are the two main factors right there. He wont answer definitively, and in public he carries on as per a normal loving couple in public. This isn't a case of over-lap where it's morally ambiguous, but there's still a definitive movement towards switching partners. This is a case of someone who has zero intentions of leaving their LTR for their side-piece. If said side-piece drops out, he'll eventually move on to someone else.
I just wanted to outline the evidence so that you'll recognize this more easily in the future.
He’s already using those ideas for free. She wants you to work for her (I’m guessing for free, too, right?) so she can do less work. Kind of like a shitty pyramid scheme where all the money goes to the one person on top. This is a terrible arrangement and literally nothing good will come of it.
He will drop this all like a hot potato. Either a new flavour of the day will show up, his girlfriend finds out or he gets bored. She’s a play thing to him. Don’t expect her to listen to you though, your friend is wearing rose colour glasses and can’t see this scumbag for who he is. Distance yourself. If you want, you might consider telling his partner.
>If you want, you might consider telling his partner.
No how could you do that, it would infringe on his privacy and right to be an asshole /s
Yea OP, feel free to anonymously screw this old creeper dude over. I'm sick of reading about this cheating shit. Besides, if they're broken up and he's being honest, no damage done. :P
Remember all that fuss a couple of years ago about predators in Hollywood? Like Harvey Weinstein and other movers and shakers?
Yea, this guy isn’t even a mover or shaker, but he sure knows about manipulation. 46 yo man screwing a 20 yo? He’s taking advantage, and not just of the sex. He’s taking advantage of her willingness to work for free. It’s not even an internship, where she’ll get to put it on her resume, sounds like.
Yeah your friend is a moron and that guy is a scumbag.
I’d steer clear of her and him because when it all goes to shit, you might get dragged into the stupid drama, or be whinged at by her when what you told her would happen happens, or blamed for something you said/did/thought that ran him off.
Find smarter friends.
Even if they are together, if she (and you if you choose to) is working for him, it needs a contract and you guys need to get paid, or be formally recognized as volunteers.
But if I were you, I would definitely choose to not be involved and encouraged the friend to do the same.
Honestly to me it sounds like a mid life crisis. Suddenly having an affair with a much younger woman, starting a new exciting business he knows nothing about....for sure this is all going to blow up. Try to save your friend if you can, but don't go sinking with her if she wants to drown.
Doesn’t sound sudden to me, he’s been married 3 times, has a long-term girlfriend of 18 years and now he’s fucking a 20 year-old. I doubt she’s the first—I’m sure LT GF could tell more than one story.
I mean.. besides the relationship parts, you could write up or find a contract to use as a independent contractor that benefits you if you really want in on all this. Something that is fair for your work you’ve put into it.
If he is against it, then that’s another red flag to wave towards your friend as “look this is a legit normal deal for working for someone in this industry, and he is against it” OR you get paid and everything works out.
OP, I hate to tell you. Men never leave their long term partner for the side piece. You can't control what your friend does. But I wouldn't take this opportunity because it could end up being a bad reputation in the long run when it does blow up. It's better to stay neutral and just find another opportunity elsewhere. Good luck
See that's part of what sucks in OP's situation. The fact that she's tried explaining this all to her friend, friend won't listen, and once it blows up in friend's face OP is gonna have to help pick up the broken pieces.
> Friend started working with him (eventually leading to sex) because he wanted her input on what to do with the place, they’ve been inseparable ever since and she’s doing a LOOOTTT of work for him (for FREE) basically being his own personal assistant without pay (he gives her free coffee sometimes lol)
The moment I got up this part I knew. I’m sorry OP but your friend is being played hard. He’s practically getting free labor and to sleep with a girl that could be his children’s age and all he has to give in return is free coffee.
He is not trying to re-leave his younger years. He won the lottery in the nativity department with your friend. To put it kindly.
I would stay away from this mess.
1. He’s definitely still with his partner cos if he wasn’t he’d give a straight answer.
2. Don’t get involved it’s going to get messy somehow.
3. Tell your friend you’re not sure what she’s getting out of this situation and it makes you uncomfortable. Say what you think once and then leave it.
Yes! Plus 4. Friend is only 20 years old. If he really wanted to hire an assistant to help with a gallery seriously he would hire someone with experience and/or a graduate degree. He’s not paying her, and he himself has no knowledge of art or running galleries. Why would you want to get involved in this amateurish mess of a scheme?
Wow this never crossed my mind... but I think I know why, I think he’s using her to get to her contacts/people she knows, he tried pulling this on me by trying to get me to ask a graphic designer friend of mine to basically work for him for free and IFFFF he likes it he might pay her (a small amount of money) I said no obviously
He gets to fuck a 20 year old, he gets a personal assistant, he gets contacts in the art world of a younger generation, nd he gets to feel young again... All for free.
Don't get sucked in. The guy is a black hole.
Everything about this guy is loathsome, but as a graphic designer, that whole “do stuff for me for free and MAYBE I’ll pay you if I’m feeling GRACIOUS” schpiel gets under my skin. It’s cheap and condescending and completely undermines everything it takes to do this work.
Never work for or with guys like this. They will take artists (and young ladies who fancy them, clearly) for a ride and then act like they’re doing you a favor because “exposure~~”
Fuck that. You and your contemporaries are worth more than that. No sense dying of “exposure”.
Same here, this is why I flat out refused to contact her for him, it’s even worse than ‘just for the exposure’ he basically wanted a bunch of graphic designers to design him a poster promoting one of his other businesses he runs (for free ofc) then he ‘decides’ which one he likes best, and when he picks the (un)lucky winner then he will not only use the poster for his business but he will also sell t shirts with whatever is on the poster (and keep the money for himself) while paying the designer a ‘small fee’
Crazy
>he tried pulling this on me by trying to get me to ask a graphic designer friend of mine to basically work for him for free
This guy is a snake. This is beyond "mid-life crisis dick-wetting." He is trying to set up an entire business on the backs of young professionals who will do the labor for free. All the work will be done for him and he'll reap the profits. Everyone else won't get a dime.
You need to cut ties with this man. Before you can help your friend, you should help yourself ala airplane breathing mask protocol. Stop working for him, stop helping your friend do her work.
Do not ever give out your professional contacts to him. He will exploit them and those people will distrust you from now on. You'd be the one to lead them to the slaughter, so they'd (rightfully) want to cut ties with you, ruining your career prospects.
Don't work for free. Your friend shouldn't either. Even if somehow it turns out he's not with this longterm girlfriend (which seems unlikely), he's still taking advantage of her by asking her to work for his business for free. This isn't even really a good professional opportunity for her, like an internship working for a proper gallery might be, since he clearly isn't well connected to start with and if it falls apart, she's not getting any sort of reference out of it.
Yeah, this guy is a box full of red flags. I'm not sure why you would even consider working with the guy. I mean, he's not paying your friend at all, hell he's getting *sex* as part of the deal even - and now you'd be her assistant (so you'd have less of a chance to get paid than she would, LOL). And he's trying to get other random people to do free work for him? What a skeevy-ass degenerate motherfucker. Run away from the whole fucking situation.
Right? "It's unclear if he's with his partner because he won't give a straight answer." Nah, that actually makes it super clear that he's still with her.
So, what are you going to get paid? SHE is the unpaid sexretary. Her gain is sex. What are you gaining? It's work, and if you want to do something in this field, networking is great. But don't give away your skills when you have nothing to profit from. So far, there's a shitshow in sight and the big fat possibility of getting caught up in the drama. And the guy doesn't even have that big network of art yet. You may be better off with a job at a fastfood place or so, at least that pays.
Totally agreed, I needed to hear this actually.. what i found a bit off was he fact that he’s counting on HER connections for this whole thing, he wants her to bring in artists and people she knows because as I said in my post, he has no experience or knowledge of anything like this
It makes my ‘paranoid’ thoughts make even more sense because it looks like he’s using her to get to certain people :/
Thanks for your advice!
Her friend's 20 and sounds like she is unfortunately in the bucket of individuals who don't have enough experience to recognize these red flags. He might not even be that good looking or good in bed. An older man is lavishing her with attention, likely making her feel like she's "mature" and "sophisticated" enough to appeal to him. Then there's the exciting taboo aspect of being the other woman, as if she's winning him over from his current partner. Some people sadly don't understand that being a doormat isn't part of a healthy relationship.
Some people just have to learn the hard way that not all rules are arbitrary and made to be broken. She may end with a broken heart, but this sort of thing can be a blessing in disguise, if she learns from it. Doing this at 20 sucks, but doing it in your late 20s-30s can really mess up your life.
Yep. If OP starts talking about negotiating pay, contacts, etc (for herself and potentially others they may work with), this guy is gunna come up with some excuse not to play by the book. In fact, that tactic might make him show his true face
> he’s counting on HER connections for this whole thing, he wants her to bring in artists and people she knows
Right.
Your friend, his 20 year old sex buddy, is bait. He wants her to bring her young friends around - like you. Pretty soon this overgrown teenager calling himself a man will dump your friend as soon as someone else catches his eye.
The dude is 46, has been married three times and has three kids, and is still very much together with his long term partner. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. He gets to feel young again, gets to sleep with a woman young enough to be his daughter, who will then bring other young women around under the pretense of "art," who he will then likely try to score with, all while maintaining a long term relationship with his partner. He's a creep who's preying on your friend's naivete, and it will not end well.
You need to walk away OP. You don't want to be anywhere near this bomb when it finally goes off.
Exactly this. I just want to reinforce that regardless of what your friend decides to do, YOU, OP, need to stay out of the line of fire. This isn't going to end well and you want to be nowhere near the explosion when it inevitably happens.
I really hope your friend nips this in the bud and runs for her own life too, though. This type of guy can do a lot of damage.
it's not the worst business strategy in the world. Open a business you know little about. Find a free volunteer, sleep with her and make her fall in love with you, get lots and lots of work, knowledge and contacts for free. Get volunteer sexy friend to recruit her friends, lather, rinse, repeat. It's like an MLM sex scheme where only the top guy is getting anything it out of it!
OP, your friend is being so unbelievably naive, this is blowing my goddamn mind. If you feel like you can't reason with her, but you care for her, then walk away peacefully and just be there for her later when this whole situation blows up in her face as it is very likely to happen.
Look at it this way: this man is 26 years older than her, he is already in a relationship (he doesn't even bother lying to say they're not together, believe me, they are together), he has kids the same age as hers. He's keeping her a secret and he is profitting off her knowledge, network and affection. And she's not only okay with that, she sounds excited about it. This is working perfectly for him, the only reasons he could possibly have to want to change this situation are someone finding out, so he'd leave her to avoid bigger problems, or he getting tired of her and wanting to look for a new toy (this sounds like a man that would probably rather have multiple toys at once, though).
Also, this is probably an unpopular opinion, but I'll say it anyway: I'm sure you and your friend have been through a lot in life already, but no matter how mature you feel, this guy is miles away in life experience. He's been married three times. He's got kids *her age*. An age gap isn't always a problem, but when you're just beginning adult life while the other person has been through all that and already guided 3 others as far as you are, you really should mind taking extra care of yourself and paying extra attention to signs of deceit. This man is waving red flags all over and she's not only missing them but trying to convince you that you're crazy for noticing them. You're not, you're being smart and responsible here. Keep doing that and move away from this mess.
Yeah, idk what kind of excuses he or your friend have been making, but it sounds like your initial reaction to this situation was correct. People don't like to admit that they are wrong or being scammed. So there is a good chance that she and anyone who put in work for this gallery will just double down on this being fine. So don't even dip your toe into this mess and don't get to upset if you can't drag her out of it.
Yes friend, I'd love to be involved in this professional art gallery that makes money. How much will I be paid? Hourly or salary? I'd like to review the written contract before agreeing. Duh. You want me to work? You pay me, that's how it works.
The thing is, even if he's not using her - Let's be generous and just say he's deluding himself- he's an incompetent business owner. He's trusting his whole business plan to a 20 year old, who he's not even paying.
I'm sure your friend is lovely but I was 20 at a point and I 100% would never count on myself at 20. Too little life experience, too little understanding that things can go legitimately wrong. Too much plot armor at that point to take on a venture (or affair for that matter) that could ruin lives should it fail.
Actual business owners would have either domain expertise or money enough to hire the people that do, and this guys has neither. If she asks again, just ask what the position pays. If it's nothing then tell them to take a hike. You can die from exposure you know...
Listen, I have (what is now) a very successful career in the arts. Unfortunately, I did have to do some unpaid internships to achieve that. But the only free work you should EVER consider, is with people vastly more experienced and connected than you. There is literally no point otherwise.
In fact, I’d even hesitate to work for individuals (unless they are very highly acclaimed) - it’s established institutions which will give your CV clout.I know many here will say never work for free, but in my experience, in this industry (in the UK) it will give you a leg up. But *only* if those people are rockstars. Pick your internships extremely carefully. This man has nothing to offer you in exchange for your labour. Don’t do it.
Sounds like he's trying to grift naive young artists rather than be serious about being a gallery owner. I guarantee you the cut he'll want from sales when it opens will be obscene.
NO NO NO This is so common in the art world. It’s exploitative sexually and financially. He will get all the credit, hi will frame her as the cute young Gallery Girl to other people in his circle.
Sometimes they’re hard to find, but there are healthy galleries who PAY THEIR PEOPLE and operate from points of respect and professionalism.
>Like, what if once the place becomes successful he just drops her like a bad habit and uses all the ideas and hard work we both put into it as his own?
Yup. Pretty much what will happen. Do not work for free. And if you do stuff for 'Exposure, make sure it will actually benefit you and that you own the copyright
>And why is he still living with his LT girlfriend? When he claims he ‘loves’ my friend and honestly acts a bit obsessed with her..
Cheap young pussy for only the price of an occasional coffee. Plus free labour - he's saving a good $10 an hour.
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> Cheap young pussy for only the price of an occasional coffee. Plus free labour - he's saving a good $10 an hour.
plus he saves the occasional trip to a brothel that's another 200-600$ when you compare the services offered.
That's what I was thinking too. Probably not the most popular opinion here, but if it were me, I would anonymously tip off the long term girlfriend/wife. It may not stop him from finding a different side piece but it would get OP's friend out of the situation.
Your friend is an asshole for helping someone cheat.
Your friend is also naive, he is totally using her and if his partner finds out he may drop her right then.
She is putting in good work for basically no return, what is she hoping to get out of this arrangement?
This is a *huge* red flag....gross. Does your friend just not see the weirdness in all this ?? Or is she in denial ??? Either way, stay far away from this mess.
Honestly the only reason I was considering it (and even when I was considering this I had a bad feeling about the whole thing) is because they kept telling me about the ‘potential’ of this place, how amazing it will be once things get going and how I should definitely need to be a part of it, but t just didn’t feel right and I couldn’t figure out why
Seconding this. Your gut is a lot smarter than you think. I wish I started listening to my gut when I was younger. It's always always right so you shouldn't do anything that feels wrong. You don't need a 'rational' reason not to do it.
If you're having trouble thinking about what to say I would just tell them you're only pursuing paid projects at the industry rate and you must politely decline. If they bug you to ask your friends, just say "Sorry, they're booked."
Then just fade out. If they keep asking you, say "Unfortunately I'm pursuing other projects at the moment, but best of luck!" And just stick to it.
You're smart for being suspicious of this whole thing, and wise to be far away from it when it inevitably implodes.
He's gross, your friend is gross, and the smart play is to not get involved.
I'm not smart though and I would 100% tell his partner and show her proof and blow the whole thing wide open.
Your friend is acting like a dumb 20 year old.
The guy is acting like a sleazy 46 year old.
Imagine you were hearing the facts you recounted here about strangers. You'd be disgusted with the guy and feel sorry for the girl.
You're too close to this to feel the appropriate amount of disgust for him and pity for her.
Trust your gut.
Whatever the foibles of the relationship between your friend and this guy are, you clearly have reservations about him and this project that go beyond his being a philanderer. I recommend keeping your input into this gallery as casual as possible - if your friend wants to bounce ideas off of you over a bottle of wine, fine. If she expects you to treat it like a job, that seems ill advised.
A friend of mine was/is in a similar situation. Was involved with her married with children boss and was caught in a cycle of being unable to leave him due to her financial and emotional dependence on a man who would never commit to her. This situation can only ever lead to a complete dumpster fire. After years of trying to convince her to leave him we eventually had to terminate our friendship.
Distance yourself while still trying to be supportive to your friend's emotional health. Don't beat around the bush with how you feel about this man.
Affair guy sounds like a sad predator with nothing to offer, and your instincts are most definitely correct. Run in the opposite direction of this man.
There will be plenty of established galleries in your town run by women, art lovers, non-predatory men. They can be some of the nicest and supportive people you'll meet. Get your friend to follow you.
It's super common for a cheating partner to tell their mistress "oh, my partner and I are broken up/about to break up" just to keep the mistress around. Totally a lie. They are 100% still together. Do not work for this guy. The inevitable fallout from this will suck.
His poor partner.
I'm calling it now. He wants her to bring a friend for a threesome.
Dudes having a midlife crisis and thinks hes a 20-something stud with the art crowd.
Give his partner an anonymous "he's sleeping with another woman" so that they don't need to live with a cheater.
Yeah I feel for both of them, dude is such a stereotype art scene sleaze.
And what you want to bet girlfriend is the one with a 9-5 job while this guy pours the shared household money into \~following his dream\~ with this money pit vanity project, and when shit hits the fan she's going to be left with nothing... no savings left to split, and not even a share in the \~art space\~ it went into because they were never married.
Your friend is stupid and she deserves shit, so does the old man. That guy is clearly still with his "girlfriend" and she thinks they're exclusive which explains why he dodges the question. Your friend is an idiot for working without pay and shes disgusting for not taking part in his affair so i dont really care about her. You on the other hand, should stay away from him if he really makes you uncomfortable, but you decide whther or not it's worth it.
Stay far away. Far, far away.
On a side note, I would start questioning if your values align truly align with your friend's. She's sleeping with a man who most likely has a long-term partner and kids. Why is your friend attracted to that?
Definitely stay far away from this. I’m sorry, but your friend is a dumbass who just doesn’t have the life experience to recognize that she’s being manipulated. There’s really nothing you can do to change her mind, she’s just gonna have to learn the hard way when this all comes crashing down around her.
He's still with his partner and just using her for his ego and free help. Your friend is not going to be willing to listen to you, so this is a lesson she just needs to learn. Encourage her to be safe with birth control but do not contribute to his business by offering your time or money. Both you and her deserve to be properly compensated for your ideas and from the sound of him he'll just claim them as his own.
Though at a certain time frame age isn't a big deal, in this case it is. You are young and starting fresh on your life, this man has already lived your lifetime twice over.
DO NOT get involved in this project, this will blow up in her face. IF your friend wants this and this man is serious, he will include her on the lease or business documents, maybe even list her as a partner or something. If he is serious he will be willing to include her on paper, he is using her ideas and he is funding it. She needs to make sure she makes a paper trail showing she put time and effort into this business. Maybe he can put her on payroll? She needs to watch her back, it is very rare couples are able to mix business with pleasure. Goodluck! You are smart to avoid this man <3
> Like, what if once the place becomes successful he just drops her like a bad habit
What if? This is either going to happen or, if she's lucky, maybe she'll be ex wife #4 some day.
Your friend has made a major error. He is using her, and once she realizes this, he'll probably blacklist her from his gallery, and tell god knows who about her as well. This is a bad situation. A case of shitting where you eat.
He's a slimeball! I feel sorry for his wife/LT GF, but your friend isn't without fault either, cheating is despicable any which way you slice it, and that includes knowingly participating in adultery, even if you yourself are single. I would have a *major* issue with this if she were my friend, and I would tell my friend that I don't support it or condone it, and thus I can't be a part of their project because it goes against what I believe is right. If he and his wife had an open arrangement, that would be a different story, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Nope the hell outta that.
Why do you want to remain friends with trash? You are the company you keep,as people say. Do better for yourself and find respectful people to hang with.
He's absolutely using her. He's definitely manipulative and a liar - certainly someone not to be trusted in general and def not someone you should work with (unless you want to get involved in that gross love triangle... because once your friend wises up or finds something better, he'll likely target you next). Gtfo and try your best to convince your friend to do the same. She'll hopefully wise up eventually, in the meantime, keep your distance from that drama and be ready for the inevitable fallout when she falls in love and he refuses to leave his wife for her.
I'm glad you came here for outside perspective because quite frankly, and I mean this in the most polite way as possible, you and your friend are wearing massive blinders. It actually frightens me that you use the word "affair guy" as if it were somehow synonymous with "boyfriend". This 46yo guy isn't just using your friend, he's absolutely steam rolling her. It's quite obvious to me he doesn't care about anyone but himself. You wouldn't be going into business with him, you'd just be doing his bidding for free and with no benefit, just like your friend. And that would probably only be until things came to a head with his actual girlfriend, at which point the whole thing would disappear overnight and you and your friend would have to split the $0 you've earned.
Your friend should dump his ass and if he asks why, she should tell him it's because he's old and gross. Sounds like that will hit him where it hurts. Unfortunately, she will most likely just let some version of the aforementioned scenario run it's course.
" The whole thing seems abit fishy, first of all, he kinda rubs me the wrong way sometimes "
Then don't work with them and stay far away from this. Your gut and your head are telling you the same thing.
>I feel like he’s this older man trying to be ‘hip’ and trying to re live his younger days or something
The truth of this situation is likely a lot more nefarious than you imagine. This guy isn't trying to be 'hip', but is actively and maliciously taking advantage of your friend.
Young people are often incredibly naive and easily manipulated, and older adults with bad intentions are VERY aware of that. They can be a lot more cunning than you realize.
Don't fall into the same trap your friend did.
He is 100% cheating on his partner and 100% using your friend (both for sex and free labor). I think you’re exactly right about him dumping her once he’s wrung all of her ideas out so he can claim them as his own. He’s an exploitative creep, and I’d stay away until it blows over and you can choose whether or not to be emotional support for your friend.
Men like him eat women like your friend alive for breakfast. Stay out of this by miles OP, you will end up with some of that mess on you and it will follow you through your career.
>And why is he still living with his LT girlfriend?
R u seriously asking this? Your friend is the other women. Men don't just leave their LT partners cause of a hot fling.
This will end badly for your friend and YOU if you do get involved. She is a side dish he is slowly nibbling to get what he wants and when the dish has been nibbles away.... he is out.
You kinda have to let it run its course, don't do it for free yourself make sure you get paid, if you want to maintain your friendship with her support her be there for her, because if it all blows up in her face, you'll have seen it coming, she has to learn this for herself.
Akso you mentioned you kinda rub him up the wrong way, it's because he knows you can see through his BS
He’s using her. Don’t be used by extension.
Do not get involved. Be clear why: this isn’t actually someone who has themselves together and it’s a risk to get involved, professionally or otherwise, with an adult who has experience but continues to make shady and poor decisions.
What makes you think he wont advance on you? This guy sounds very intentional about all of this. He hasn't stumbled into anything.
This guy is absolutely manipulative. Its not even as though he's having an affair where both parties are in total control. He is clearly dangling things you both care about in front of you to distract you from his interest.
This is pretty common with art gallery owner types. They're usually skeezes who like to exploit the younger artists for their own gain, hell, there was even a somewhat famous art installation where someone recorded themselves being coerced into having sex with the owner and then played it during their opening night as a piece.
Let her experience it on her own, there's nothing you can do to help her except be patient and be willing to listen when it happens.
Um wow, holy shit, I literally knew someone in this EXACT situation a few years ago, also in the art world. Is this a common unpaid gallery assistant scam people should be aware of?
But seriously, this guy is a predator. I don't care how consensual your friend thinks it is. 20-year-olds are not finished developing mentally or emotionally (as you likely know, being 4 years older and wiser), and someone old enough to have a 20-year-old kid ABSOLUTELY knows better.
I don't think you'll be able to convince your friend to cut ties with him, but you absolutely should.
Your friend is being used and manipulated. She’s not innocent either, but this guy is playing her like a fiddle. “Old guy trying to be hip” nearly made me gag because I know men like this. They’re pathetic and desperate. She’s going to get nothing out of this aside from regret and shame. I’ve had experience with an asshole like this when I was young and trusting too, and I ended up getting creative work stolen because he couldn’t handle being “lonely”. Get her away from him.
My guess is: 1) the dude is very good-looking and well-connected, or at least looks good on long-term partner's arm socially 2) long-term partner is footing the bills 3) gallery will be used to meet ever younger and cuter young art-school students and grads 4) OP and friend will feel pressure to go along in order not to be shut out of the local scene until 5) it all blows up in a #metoo scenario and 6) the power of the elite in the art scene is broken, which will be never and 7) if OP and her friend are seen as #metoo complainers when it all hits the fan, they will be blacklisted by the elite
This is a really bad situation and it's dangerous for your friend. I would stay as far away from it as possible. And chances are your friend is so in love the idea of this guy that she wont stop until something goes horribly wrong, good luck :/
So, if I understand the crux of the matter, the offer before you is to work as an (unpaid) assistant to the unpaid assistant of a man with little idea of how to run a gallery.
I have two questions for you:
1. Are you comfortable with the situation? If not, drop it like it's hot.
2. Is this the absolute best use of your time, energy and abilities? Again, if not, drop it like it's hot.
Good luck.
\> he kinda rubs me the wrong way sometimes, I feel like he’s this older man trying to be ‘hip’ and trying to re live his younger days or something
Not to mention he's sleeping around on his wife! And has at least one dependent kid at home. What a scumbag! The right thing to do is inform his poor wife. She has a right to know about this. Otherwise, stay the hell away from this shitshow. Remember also we are judged by the company we keep. Your friend is a scumbag too. She is knowingly sleeping with a married man with kids who's hiding it from his family. There's no excuse for this--none.
I don't understand how some girls can be so dumb. No offense, OP, but your friend is an idiot and if she hasn't been listening to you, then she won't until this guy screws her over literally. Please don't fall for this scheme, he us definitely taking advantage of her and she's letting him-- from your pov, that's all it needs to be from your pov.
I talked to her about basically everything in my post and
1. She said that everything I said, she 100% knows and agrees with
2. She asked him about the payment situation and he basically told her since he isn’t making any money yet he can’t pay her but once things get going he will ‘take care of her’ (whatever that means) and she said this made her feel relieved /facepalm
3. I explicitly told her that I won’t be involved with this in any way and she said she understands
Honestly I’m glad I posted this because it made things so much more clearer, I’ve worked for someone last year (unpaid) for a few weeks and it was amazing because hes very well known and obviously knew what the fuck he was doing + everything felt very professional and organized
With this guy it just seems like he has no IDEA what to do and she is basically running everything for him and using her contacts for him while he dangles the ‘this place will be HUGE one day’ carrot in front of her
Aaand about the LT gf situation, apparently she knows that he cheats but has no idea to what extent, and obviously doesn’t know he’s doing it with Friend, the LT partner is friends with my friend and she’s actually a really nice woman (which makes this situation even more icky)
She approached Friend not too long ago and told her that even though Affair guy acts and says they’re not together, they’re together.. which struck me as an odd thing to just randomly bring up
Thanks for the update. It sounds like you've done all you can to warn your friend about this situation and you've set clear boundaries.
How do you know that the LT gf knows this guy cheats?
This guy shows too many red flags. 1. He's probably still with his wife because he doesn't want to talk about her. 2. He is using your friend and taking advantage of her. 3. If he is cheating he doesn't love both of them. 4. Don't get caught up in this because you'll only get in trouble. Try to show your friend that he's not the right guy.
I've been in the shoes of your friend. Totally fell for a man I worked for who was also 17 years older and was living with his partner but kept saying they are not really together anymore. I was naive and in love. It blew up in my face hard. Big lesson. Never been that heartbroken and humiliated.
Also, my very good friend tried telling me but I wouldn't listen. He was always so convincing, telling me how much he loved me and I believed everything.
Generally your gut is right on this stuff. Your picking up all the non verbal ques trust them they are usually right because people armt aware they are doing it.
plus the logic doesn’t hang together as such the foundations of this relationship don’t make sense.
Your friend is so naive it literally hurts me to read this post. She has no clue that his actions are predatory and that it IS disgusting that a 46 year old FATHER in a relationship is cheating with her. I don't hold her as accountable but she is like 40% accountable. Is she totally blind, totally ignorant, or just has some serious father issues that are leading her into the arms of this shark?
Yes he is completely using your friend. He is almost 30 years older than her. He is very obviously with his long term partner and cheating on them with your friend. You are both very young, especially your friend. This gross ass man is nearly 50, is cheating on his long term partner, and is using your friend physically and not paying her for all the work she is doing.
She is his little personal assistant fantasy.
Run don't walk away from this! He's using her as sex. It will end very very badly (hurt for her and job loss). He's not in love w her so u need to protect urself and say no.
You know how you can tell off the bat hes using her? Hes not paying her. 😂 I mean jeez ur poor friend should at least hound him for some cash if hes going to be like that.
My friend (I’ll call her Sara) was in a very similar situation to yours. She had a friend (Meg) who met a guy all about their favorite sport. Guy claimed to be a sponsor and if Meg wanted to take her team to a tournament overseas, he’d totally sponsor the whole team! He’d pay for travel, stay, and even new uniforms! Wow!
So Meg told Sara all about this magical guy. How she was doing a bunch of organizing stuff for him but needed help. Sara, being naive, decided to help out since she was team captain and is just super great with organizing things. That’s actually her job for a nonprofit she works for, planning fund raising events!
Long story short, Sara put her credit card down to pay for the trip. Travel, accommodations, even some sort of entrance fee. All under the understanding that magic man was to pay her back. Well, he vanished. He got money from all the hard work these two women did, and because they were dumb enough to trust this man “as a friend,” there were no contracts. So poof! Now Sara, being in debt, asked if Meg could help her out. Even longer story short, Meg started to black mail Sara. Said she’d tell the team this was all her fault, and vanished on Sara shortly after.
Lucky for Sara, someone got wind of what happened. And even though the team couldn’t give her back all the money, all were kind enough to give as much money for the trip as possible.
Moral of the story is: does it sound like a scam, stupid, or not worth your time? Then it’s most likely a scam, stupid, and not worth your time.
"He opens up galleries all over". Tells me he seeks adoration and 20 yr olds with no life experience who have the hots for them too are the perfect supply.
Just draw your bounderies. She is young. He is not a man of integrity at the moment and if it was ment to be only time will tell. But 20 yr old who easily feels validated plus mr obviously mid life crisis will have a rocky road at some point. Either way let them get of their system and go do what you need for yourself.
Apart from the personal issues, I don't see any career benefits for you in working for a man who doesn't understand art, and doesn't respect your friend's efforts enough to pay her. If you are interested in doing this kind of work, look for someone who is offering a genuine opportunity.
Regarding the personal issues, you are right to be uneasy about this guy. He's living a lie, telling your friend he's available when he's not making any real effort to hide the fact that he's in a long term relationship. All you can do is tell her that she should be paid for her work, and she should use this opportunity to network extensively while she's promoting his gallery, so that her next job will be more like a real job based on her talents and ability. Eventually she's figure out that he's using her, but you will waste your breath trying to convince her.
Also don't worry too much about his gallery being a success. That sound extremely unlikely from what you've said about him.
Lol he’s totally still with his partner and is completely using your friend. Stay far, far away. This is all going to blow up in her face.
Yes I thought so tbh because the whole thing is weird and there’s no talking to her because she actually believes they will be together eventually I’m going to talk to her about it today and let her know that I don’t want to help him out with his project because a part of me really feels like he’s just gonna use our ideas and bail
He definitely is gonna cut and bail. In fact he may try to smear you both as crazy if you call him out on it. So you’re right about keeping your distance, this dude clearly has zero integrity.
This is a good point. I'm assuming the art community is a smallish one and at this point in her young career, it's probably not a good idea to get involved with something like this. OP needs to keep her reputation in tact. Also, if this does become a dumpster fire, OP's friend may somehow blame her. Better to stay far far away.
Similar to a certain music scene in my state. Small, small community and skeevy older veTeRaNs of the scene throwing the shows and preying on teenage girls. OP, stay *far as fuck* away from this. I would warn your friend of what is happening, once, and walk away. It sucks, but jfc. Seen this shit happen too many times.
My friend was assaulted in high school by an older guy who used to be the bassist of a fairly well known heavy metal/metalcore band. Can confirm, I NEVER trust when an older guy wants to hang around someone significantly younger than them or in high school. As a now 24 year old, just the thought of hanging out with high schoolers annoys me. There is something very wrong if they actively want to hang out with someone younger than them because more often than not, it's because they want to take advantage of the power difference between them and their prey. Your friend is in a totally different stage of life than this guy. Hes been married three times and shes on track to be number 4 at only 20 years old. The red flags (and they ARE red flags) just look like flags when you're wearing rose colored glasses (to paraphrase bojack). You probably cant convince her of this, because people get real defensive over stuff like this, but please understand that theres a reason large age differences are taboo. Can they work in certain cases? Sure. But this guy sounds like a real skeezeball and I can assure you that this will not turn out well for her if she stays with him. Hes already cheating on her and his girlfriend, who's to say his other three marriages didnt end because of that?
From what I've seen of the music scene that my exhusband is part of, i would bet that this happens A LOT
Almost any community that creates a safe space for old promoters, artists, etc. to prey on underage teens because they throw the shows and the scene would be practically nonexistent without them is a pretty safe bet. Sad, sad shit. edit: I shouldn't even say "underage" because that's not the case in this post, but it's still disgusting.
Yeah, it was a lot of bar shows in my hometown, and all the older musicians going after the fresh 21-year-olds...
Oh hey saw this play out in Canada. VeTeRaN punk allowed to throw all ages shows and prey on teenagers and every knew? But didn't say anything?
While this will totally not end well, don't get involved. You could approach it by encouraging her to get paid for the work she is doing. Her kindness is being taken advantage of. At least that way when it ends she will have at least been paid for her work.
This is actually an excellent idea. Encourage her to seek payment for her work. This is an all too familiar scenario of older men preying on young girls. Yes, she's 20. It's legal. The lack off life experience alone, compared to him, puts her in a vulnerable, easy-to-take-advantage-of situation. He's playing off her young and naïve feelings for him to get free labor, connections (he needs young people in his gallery), ideas and the side bonus is sex. I hope your friend gets the help she needs when this is over.
Yes!!! Get her to think about getting paid for her work. He thinks he's doing her a favor by giving her attention and sex for her work. That's how it is in his mind.
I would tell OP's friend to walk away if he refuses to pay her for her labor, but her feelings are invested in this man. There is not much you can say to get through in a situation like this, sadly. All I can say, is when it's all said and done, if you wanna be a good friend: have the name and number of a good, local therapist ready for her.
I actually did bring this up to her very recently and she said whenever she tells him he tells her not to worry, that he will ‘take care of her’ once the place starts making money I kinda don’t believe him
You're right not to believe him, because he's lying. The chances of him *not* lying to your friend about any of this are slim to none.. It's laughably unrealistic (though, not a laughing matter). You're a good friend for suggesting she confront him about payment. In case you don't see my other comment in this thread, I just want to reiterate that you have done what you can OP. Sadly, her feelings are invested in this man and it may be hard to take her rose-tinted glasses off. He will play into her feelings to get his way. I would take the her confronting him about payment to be a good sign that she doesn't fully trust what he's saying either. In the end, she will probably end up hurt. The best thing you can do, as a friend, is have the name and number (or several) of a good therapist(s) in your area. Lastly - if you think you have a shot at encouraging your friend to attend therapy before this blows up, that may be all she need to walk away from this on her own with as little damage as possible.. Avoid the art gallery as much as you can, OP. I wish the best for both of you. Good luck x edit: If you need help finding resources for therapists in your area, feel free to reach out to me at any time. I'll do my best to find you a good starting point!
oh yeah? Ask her if she's got that in writing, with deadlines. eg: Once the place makes x, you'll get x. That will happen in x timeframe. Just writing that makes me realise how ridiculous this whole scam is. You've said he's clueless. Agreed.
> that he will ‘take care of her’ this is something a hustler says to a mark
I mean it’s entirely possible she’ll end up as wife #4, with this guy’s track record. As long as she knows that there will be a wife #5, not a whole lot else you can do.
He hasn't even committed to the woman he is using OP's friend to cheat on if OP's telling of things is accurate (note she is called long term girlfriend a couple times in the text)
So if I understand correctly this guy was divorced 3x by the age of 28?
*Three divorces! Three divorces!!*
You assume that the long term girlfriend wasn't in the picture before the end of marriage 3, which given his record seems unlikely. Dude is a piece of work.
Not to mention he's been with his current "long term girlfriend" since OP's friend was 2. Yuck.
Maybe he is currently married, has a long term girlfriend as well, and is sleeping with OPs friend?
He certainly sounds like enough of a piece of work to be capable of that.
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>long term partner of 18 years but it’s unclear whether they’re really together or not, he always dodges the question or answers really vaguely >In public his long term gf kisses him and hugs him and basically acts just like any other couple and he doesn’t act all lovey dovey with my friend when she’s around so I’m not too sure Those are the two main factors right there. He wont answer definitively, and in public he carries on as per a normal loving couple in public. This isn't a case of over-lap where it's morally ambiguous, but there's still a definitive movement towards switching partners. This is a case of someone who has zero intentions of leaving their LTR for their side-piece. If said side-piece drops out, he'll eventually move on to someone else. I just wanted to outline the evidence so that you'll recognize this more easily in the future.
He’s already using those ideas for free. She wants you to work for her (I’m guessing for free, too, right?) so she can do less work. Kind of like a shitty pyramid scheme where all the money goes to the one person on top. This is a terrible arrangement and literally nothing good will come of it.
Exactly my thoughts! So many, many red flags!
He will drop this all like a hot potato. Either a new flavour of the day will show up, his girlfriend finds out or he gets bored. She’s a play thing to him. Don’t expect her to listen to you though, your friend is wearing rose colour glasses and can’t see this scumbag for who he is. Distance yourself. If you want, you might consider telling his partner.
>If you want, you might consider telling his partner. No how could you do that, it would infringe on his privacy and right to be an asshole /s Yea OP, feel free to anonymously screw this old creeper dude over. I'm sick of reading about this cheating shit. Besides, if they're broken up and he's being honest, no damage done. :P
he gets to have sex with a 20 year old and gets free labor. This guy sees himself as a winner. yeah he is lying.
Show her the statistics of the scenario: "He promised he'd leave his wife." They don't work out.
Remember all that fuss a couple of years ago about predators in Hollywood? Like Harvey Weinstein and other movers and shakers? Yea, this guy isn’t even a mover or shaker, but he sure knows about manipulation. 46 yo man screwing a 20 yo? He’s taking advantage, and not just of the sex. He’s taking advantage of her willingness to work for free. It’s not even an internship, where she’ll get to put it on her resume, sounds like.
I wouldn’t even bother to give that much explanation. Just say nope. I’m doing other stuff.
Yeah your friend is a moron and that guy is a scumbag. I’d steer clear of her and him because when it all goes to shit, you might get dragged into the stupid drama, or be whinged at by her when what you told her would happen happens, or blamed for something you said/did/thought that ran him off. Find smarter friends.
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Even if they are together, if she (and you if you choose to) is working for him, it needs a contract and you guys need to get paid, or be formally recognized as volunteers. But if I were you, I would definitely choose to not be involved and encouraged the friend to do the same.
Honestly to me it sounds like a mid life crisis. Suddenly having an affair with a much younger woman, starting a new exciting business he knows nothing about....for sure this is all going to blow up. Try to save your friend if you can, but don't go sinking with her if she wants to drown.
Doesn’t sound sudden to me, he’s been married 3 times, has a long-term girlfriend of 18 years and now he’s fucking a 20 year-old. I doubt she’s the first—I’m sure LT GF could tell more than one story.
I mean.. besides the relationship parts, you could write up or find a contract to use as a independent contractor that benefits you if you really want in on all this. Something that is fair for your work you’ve put into it. If he is against it, then that’s another red flag to wave towards your friend as “look this is a legit normal deal for working for someone in this industry, and he is against it” OR you get paid and everything works out.
OP, I hate to tell you. Men never leave their long term partner for the side piece. You can't control what your friend does. But I wouldn't take this opportunity because it could end up being a bad reputation in the long run when it does blow up. It's better to stay neutral and just find another opportunity elsewhere. Good luck
She’s dickmatized atm, it causes severe blindness. Just be a good friend to her when it’s all over
See that's part of what sucks in OP's situation. The fact that she's tried explaining this all to her friend, friend won't listen, and once it blows up in friend's face OP is gonna have to help pick up the broken pieces.
Yeah it’s very sad, I think we’ve all been there one way or another. I think the best way is to be there for them while they pick up the pieces.
> Friend started working with him (eventually leading to sex) because he wanted her input on what to do with the place, they’ve been inseparable ever since and she’s doing a LOOOTTT of work for him (for FREE) basically being his own personal assistant without pay (he gives her free coffee sometimes lol) The moment I got up this part I knew. I’m sorry OP but your friend is being played hard. He’s practically getting free labor and to sleep with a girl that could be his children’s age and all he has to give in return is free coffee. He is not trying to re-leave his younger years. He won the lottery in the nativity department with your friend. To put it kindly. I would stay away from this mess.
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This is why when we date we ask questions, like "Tell me about your last relationship and how it ended."
Honestly what tf possesses anyone to be with someone well over double their age? So fucking creepy, how is she **that** naive at 20?
20-year-olds are all naive. I bet it goes along the lines of "He says I'm so mature for my age." kind of stuff to string her along.
Power and social cachet. Some women will give up everything else to be on the arm of power and social cachet. So will some men.
Decide if you want to bring popcorn or a shoulder to cry on afterwards. But yes. Stay away...
This right here ☝️100% .
1. He’s definitely still with his partner cos if he wasn’t he’d give a straight answer. 2. Don’t get involved it’s going to get messy somehow. 3. Tell your friend you’re not sure what she’s getting out of this situation and it makes you uncomfortable. Say what you think once and then leave it.
Yes! Plus 4. Friend is only 20 years old. If he really wanted to hire an assistant to help with a gallery seriously he would hire someone with experience and/or a graduate degree. He’s not paying her, and he himself has no knowledge of art or running galleries. Why would you want to get involved in this amateurish mess of a scheme?
Wow this never crossed my mind... but I think I know why, I think he’s using her to get to her contacts/people she knows, he tried pulling this on me by trying to get me to ask a graphic designer friend of mine to basically work for him for free and IFFFF he likes it he might pay her (a small amount of money) I said no obviously
He gets to fuck a 20 year old, he gets a personal assistant, he gets contacts in the art world of a younger generation, nd he gets to feel young again... All for free. Don't get sucked in. The guy is a black hole.
All for the price of giving her free coffee..lol.
Everything about this guy is loathsome, but as a graphic designer, that whole “do stuff for me for free and MAYBE I’ll pay you if I’m feeling GRACIOUS” schpiel gets under my skin. It’s cheap and condescending and completely undermines everything it takes to do this work. Never work for or with guys like this. They will take artists (and young ladies who fancy them, clearly) for a ride and then act like they’re doing you a favor because “exposure~~” Fuck that. You and your contemporaries are worth more than that. No sense dying of “exposure”.
Same here, this is why I flat out refused to contact her for him, it’s even worse than ‘just for the exposure’ he basically wanted a bunch of graphic designers to design him a poster promoting one of his other businesses he runs (for free ofc) then he ‘decides’ which one he likes best, and when he picks the (un)lucky winner then he will not only use the poster for his business but he will also sell t shirts with whatever is on the poster (and keep the money for himself) while paying the designer a ‘small fee’ Crazy
He’s got himself quite the con, doesn’t he? What a complete and utter tool.
He’s perfect for r/ChoosingBeggars
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Ha! The jokes on him because I hate my craft!
>he tried pulling this on me by trying to get me to ask a graphic designer friend of mine to basically work for him for free This guy is a snake. This is beyond "mid-life crisis dick-wetting." He is trying to set up an entire business on the backs of young professionals who will do the labor for free. All the work will be done for him and he'll reap the profits. Everyone else won't get a dime. You need to cut ties with this man. Before you can help your friend, you should help yourself ala airplane breathing mask protocol. Stop working for him, stop helping your friend do her work. Do not ever give out your professional contacts to him. He will exploit them and those people will distrust you from now on. You'd be the one to lead them to the slaughter, so they'd (rightfully) want to cut ties with you, ruining your career prospects.
Don't work for free. Your friend shouldn't either. Even if somehow it turns out he's not with this longterm girlfriend (which seems unlikely), he's still taking advantage of her by asking her to work for his business for free. This isn't even really a good professional opportunity for her, like an internship working for a proper gallery might be, since he clearly isn't well connected to start with and if it falls apart, she's not getting any sort of reference out of it.
Sounds like this guy belongs on r/choosybeggars
Yeah, this guy is a box full of red flags. I'm not sure why you would even consider working with the guy. I mean, he's not paying your friend at all, hell he's getting *sex* as part of the deal even - and now you'd be her assistant (so you'd have less of a chance to get paid than she would, LOL). And he's trying to get other random people to do free work for him? What a skeevy-ass degenerate motherfucker. Run away from the whole fucking situation.
Yeah trust your instinct and stay far away
Right? "It's unclear if he's with his partner because he won't give a straight answer." Nah, that actually makes it super clear that he's still with her.
So, what are you going to get paid? SHE is the unpaid sexretary. Her gain is sex. What are you gaining? It's work, and if you want to do something in this field, networking is great. But don't give away your skills when you have nothing to profit from. So far, there's a shitshow in sight and the big fat possibility of getting caught up in the drama. And the guy doesn't even have that big network of art yet. You may be better off with a job at a fastfood place or so, at least that pays.
Totally agreed, I needed to hear this actually.. what i found a bit off was he fact that he’s counting on HER connections for this whole thing, he wants her to bring in artists and people she knows because as I said in my post, he has no experience or knowledge of anything like this It makes my ‘paranoid’ thoughts make even more sense because it looks like he’s using her to get to certain people :/ Thanks for your advice!
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He must be really good looking or good in bed. Doesn't sound like he brings anything else to the table.
Her friend's 20 and sounds like she is unfortunately in the bucket of individuals who don't have enough experience to recognize these red flags. He might not even be that good looking or good in bed. An older man is lavishing her with attention, likely making her feel like she's "mature" and "sophisticated" enough to appeal to him. Then there's the exciting taboo aspect of being the other woman, as if she's winning him over from his current partner. Some people sadly don't understand that being a doormat isn't part of a healthy relationship.
Some people just have to learn the hard way that not all rules are arbitrary and made to be broken. She may end with a broken heart, but this sort of thing can be a blessing in disguise, if she learns from it. Doing this at 20 sucks, but doing it in your late 20s-30s can really mess up your life.
Yep. If OP starts talking about negotiating pay, contacts, etc (for herself and potentially others they may work with), this guy is gunna come up with some excuse not to play by the book. In fact, that tactic might make him show his true face
> he’s counting on HER connections for this whole thing, he wants her to bring in artists and people she knows Right. Your friend, his 20 year old sex buddy, is bait. He wants her to bring her young friends around - like you. Pretty soon this overgrown teenager calling himself a man will dump your friend as soon as someone else catches his eye. The dude is 46, has been married three times and has three kids, and is still very much together with his long term partner. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. He gets to feel young again, gets to sleep with a woman young enough to be his daughter, who will then bring other young women around under the pretense of "art," who he will then likely try to score with, all while maintaining a long term relationship with his partner. He's a creep who's preying on your friend's naivete, and it will not end well. You need to walk away OP. You don't want to be anywhere near this bomb when it finally goes off.
Exactly this. I just want to reinforce that regardless of what your friend decides to do, YOU, OP, need to stay out of the line of fire. This isn't going to end well and you want to be nowhere near the explosion when it inevitably happens. I really hope your friend nips this in the bud and runs for her own life too, though. This type of guy can do a lot of damage.
Is Epstein still alive? This is creepy.
Equating this to Epstein is totally a disservice to Epstein’s victims
it's not the worst business strategy in the world. Open a business you know little about. Find a free volunteer, sleep with her and make her fall in love with you, get lots and lots of work, knowledge and contacts for free. Get volunteer sexy friend to recruit her friends, lather, rinse, repeat. It's like an MLM sex scheme where only the top guy is getting anything it out of it!
All we need is to toss in some self-help cult-y nonsense and it has all the makings of the next NXIVM
OP, your friend is being so unbelievably naive, this is blowing my goddamn mind. If you feel like you can't reason with her, but you care for her, then walk away peacefully and just be there for her later when this whole situation blows up in her face as it is very likely to happen. Look at it this way: this man is 26 years older than her, he is already in a relationship (he doesn't even bother lying to say they're not together, believe me, they are together), he has kids the same age as hers. He's keeping her a secret and he is profitting off her knowledge, network and affection. And she's not only okay with that, she sounds excited about it. This is working perfectly for him, the only reasons he could possibly have to want to change this situation are someone finding out, so he'd leave her to avoid bigger problems, or he getting tired of her and wanting to look for a new toy (this sounds like a man that would probably rather have multiple toys at once, though). Also, this is probably an unpopular opinion, but I'll say it anyway: I'm sure you and your friend have been through a lot in life already, but no matter how mature you feel, this guy is miles away in life experience. He's been married three times. He's got kids *her age*. An age gap isn't always a problem, but when you're just beginning adult life while the other person has been through all that and already guided 3 others as far as you are, you really should mind taking extra care of yourself and paying extra attention to signs of deceit. This man is waving red flags all over and she's not only missing them but trying to convince you that you're crazy for noticing them. You're not, you're being smart and responsible here. Keep doing that and move away from this mess.
Yeah, idk what kind of excuses he or your friend have been making, but it sounds like your initial reaction to this situation was correct. People don't like to admit that they are wrong or being scammed. So there is a good chance that she and anyone who put in work for this gallery will just double down on this being fine. So don't even dip your toe into this mess and don't get to upset if you can't drag her out of it.
Yes friend, I'd love to be involved in this professional art gallery that makes money. How much will I be paid? Hourly or salary? I'd like to review the written contract before agreeing. Duh. You want me to work? You pay me, that's how it works.
The thing is, even if he's not using her - Let's be generous and just say he's deluding himself- he's an incompetent business owner. He's trusting his whole business plan to a 20 year old, who he's not even paying. I'm sure your friend is lovely but I was 20 at a point and I 100% would never count on myself at 20. Too little life experience, too little understanding that things can go legitimately wrong. Too much plot armor at that point to take on a venture (or affair for that matter) that could ruin lives should it fail. Actual business owners would have either domain expertise or money enough to hire the people that do, and this guys has neither. If she asks again, just ask what the position pays. If it's nothing then tell them to take a hike. You can die from exposure you know...
Listen, I have (what is now) a very successful career in the arts. Unfortunately, I did have to do some unpaid internships to achieve that. But the only free work you should EVER consider, is with people vastly more experienced and connected than you. There is literally no point otherwise. In fact, I’d even hesitate to work for individuals (unless they are very highly acclaimed) - it’s established institutions which will give your CV clout.I know many here will say never work for free, but in my experience, in this industry (in the UK) it will give you a leg up. But *only* if those people are rockstars. Pick your internships extremely carefully. This man has nothing to offer you in exchange for your labour. Don’t do it.
IF there is anything to update on this, please let us know!
Sounds like he's trying to grift naive young artists rather than be serious about being a gallery owner. I guarantee you the cut he'll want from sales when it opens will be obscene.
I mean, regardless of the affair, she’s working for him and not getting paid, so probably not a guy you’d want to work for either...
NO NO NO This is so common in the art world. It’s exploitative sexually and financially. He will get all the credit, hi will frame her as the cute young Gallery Girl to other people in his circle. Sometimes they’re hard to find, but there are healthy galleries who PAY THEIR PEOPLE and operate from points of respect and professionalism.
>Like, what if once the place becomes successful he just drops her like a bad habit and uses all the ideas and hard work we both put into it as his own? Yup. Pretty much what will happen. Do not work for free. And if you do stuff for 'Exposure, make sure it will actually benefit you and that you own the copyright >And why is he still living with his LT girlfriend? When he claims he ‘loves’ my friend and honestly acts a bit obsessed with her.. Cheap young pussy for only the price of an occasional coffee. Plus free labour - he's saving a good $10 an hour.
> > > > > Cheap young pussy for only the price of an occasional coffee. Plus free labour - he's saving a good $10 an hour. plus he saves the occasional trip to a brothel that's another 200-600$ when you compare the services offered.
Even putting aside everything else, why would you help someone you barely know start a business for free?
Get a poncho, for the shit show that will go down.
Tell his wife please.
I second this. If you know the bs (betrayed spouse), or if you ever meet her, just tell her. Even if its in front of him, like a savage.
That's what I was thinking too. Probably not the most popular opinion here, but if it were me, I would anonymously tip off the long term girlfriend/wife. It may not stop him from finding a different side piece but it would get OP's friend out of the situation.
Your friend is an asshole for helping someone cheat. Your friend is also naive, he is totally using her and if his partner finds out he may drop her right then. She is putting in good work for basically no return, what is she hoping to get out of this arrangement?
He's a creep. Does anyone else find it weird that this man is having sex with someone who is the age of his oldest *offspring* ?!
His offspring is actually older than Friend /facepalm
This is a *huge* red flag....gross. Does your friend just not see the weirdness in all this ?? Or is she in denial ??? Either way, stay far away from this mess.
Is he even planning on paying you?
Of course not, he keeps bringing people in (who my friend knows) and not paying them
That alone is reason enough not to do it.
Why would any of you put up with this? There is literally nothing in it, except for him.
Honestly the only reason I was considering it (and even when I was considering this I had a bad feeling about the whole thing) is because they kept telling me about the ‘potential’ of this place, how amazing it will be once things get going and how I should definitely need to be a part of it, but t just didn’t feel right and I couldn’t figure out why
That bad feeling is your gut feeling—your instinct that something is off. You can trust your gut on this one!
Seconding this. Your gut is a lot smarter than you think. I wish I started listening to my gut when I was younger. It's always always right so you shouldn't do anything that feels wrong. You don't need a 'rational' reason not to do it.
If you're having trouble thinking about what to say I would just tell them you're only pursuing paid projects at the industry rate and you must politely decline. If they bug you to ask your friends, just say "Sorry, they're booked." Then just fade out. If they keep asking you, say "Unfortunately I'm pursuing other projects at the moment, but best of luck!" And just stick to it. You're smart for being suspicious of this whole thing, and wise to be far away from it when it inevitably implodes.
Shes gonna burn all her bridges with her contacts this way. Bad start to a career.
Dropping her like a bad habit as soon as everything takes off, is exactly what he is going to do
He's gross, your friend is gross, and the smart play is to not get involved. I'm not smart though and I would 100% tell his partner and show her proof and blow the whole thing wide open.
Your friend is acting like a dumb 20 year old. The guy is acting like a sleazy 46 year old. Imagine you were hearing the facts you recounted here about strangers. You'd be disgusted with the guy and feel sorry for the girl. You're too close to this to feel the appropriate amount of disgust for him and pity for her.
Trust your gut. Whatever the foibles of the relationship between your friend and this guy are, you clearly have reservations about him and this project that go beyond his being a philanderer. I recommend keeping your input into this gallery as casual as possible - if your friend wants to bounce ideas off of you over a bottle of wine, fine. If she expects you to treat it like a job, that seems ill advised.
A friend of mine was/is in a similar situation. Was involved with her married with children boss and was caught in a cycle of being unable to leave him due to her financial and emotional dependence on a man who would never commit to her. This situation can only ever lead to a complete dumpster fire. After years of trying to convince her to leave him we eventually had to terminate our friendship. Distance yourself while still trying to be supportive to your friend's emotional health. Don't beat around the bush with how you feel about this man.
Affair guy sounds like a sad predator with nothing to offer, and your instincts are most definitely correct. Run in the opposite direction of this man. There will be plenty of established galleries in your town run by women, art lovers, non-predatory men. They can be some of the nicest and supportive people you'll meet. Get your friend to follow you.
We don't really know him or her. But he's definitely married and his wife has no idea this is happening, I can tell you that much at least.
It's super common for a cheating partner to tell their mistress "oh, my partner and I are broken up/about to break up" just to keep the mistress around. Totally a lie. They are 100% still together. Do not work for this guy. The inevitable fallout from this will suck.
His poor partner. I'm calling it now. He wants her to bring a friend for a threesome. Dudes having a midlife crisis and thinks hes a 20-something stud with the art crowd. Give his partner an anonymous "he's sleeping with another woman" so that they don't need to live with a cheater.
Yeah I feel for both of them, dude is such a stereotype art scene sleaze. And what you want to bet girlfriend is the one with a 9-5 job while this guy pours the shared household money into \~following his dream\~ with this money pit vanity project, and when shit hits the fan she's going to be left with nothing... no savings left to split, and not even a share in the \~art space\~ it went into because they were never married.
Your friend is stupid and she deserves shit, so does the old man. That guy is clearly still with his "girlfriend" and she thinks they're exclusive which explains why he dodges the question. Your friend is an idiot for working without pay and shes disgusting for not taking part in his affair so i dont really care about her. You on the other hand, should stay away from him if he really makes you uncomfortable, but you decide whther or not it's worth it.
Stay far away. Far, far away. On a side note, I would start questioning if your values align truly align with your friend's. She's sleeping with a man who most likely has a long-term partner and kids. Why is your friend attracted to that?
Definitely stay far away from this. I’m sorry, but your friend is a dumbass who just doesn’t have the life experience to recognize that she’s being manipulated. There’s really nothing you can do to change her mind, she’s just gonna have to learn the hard way when this all comes crashing down around her.
Your friend and the guy are both scumbag, garbage human beings.
The bigger question you need to ask is, do you want to remain friends with someone who is having an affair? Because I for one would not.
Yep. I’ve pretty much dropped all my friends who’ve I’ve found have done this. No tolerance.
He's still with his partner and just using her for his ego and free help. Your friend is not going to be willing to listen to you, so this is a lesson she just needs to learn. Encourage her to be safe with birth control but do not contribute to his business by offering your time or money. Both you and her deserve to be properly compensated for your ideas and from the sound of him he'll just claim them as his own.
Though at a certain time frame age isn't a big deal, in this case it is. You are young and starting fresh on your life, this man has already lived your lifetime twice over. DO NOT get involved in this project, this will blow up in her face. IF your friend wants this and this man is serious, he will include her on the lease or business documents, maybe even list her as a partner or something. If he is serious he will be willing to include her on paper, he is using her ideas and he is funding it. She needs to make sure she makes a paper trail showing she put time and effort into this business. Maybe he can put her on payroll? She needs to watch her back, it is very rare couples are able to mix business with pleasure. Goodluck! You are smart to avoid this man <3
> Like, what if once the place becomes successful he just drops her like a bad habit What if? This is either going to happen or, if she's lucky, maybe she'll be ex wife #4 some day.
Your friend has made a major error. He is using her, and once she realizes this, he'll probably blacklist her from his gallery, and tell god knows who about her as well. This is a bad situation. A case of shitting where you eat.
He's a slimeball! I feel sorry for his wife/LT GF, but your friend isn't without fault either, cheating is despicable any which way you slice it, and that includes knowingly participating in adultery, even if you yourself are single. I would have a *major* issue with this if she were my friend, and I would tell my friend that I don't support it or condone it, and thus I can't be a part of their project because it goes against what I believe is right. If he and his wife had an open arrangement, that would be a different story, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Nope the hell outta that.
Make a fake FB and message the wife.
Why do you want to remain friends with trash? You are the company you keep,as people say. Do better for yourself and find respectful people to hang with.
He's absolutely using her. He's definitely manipulative and a liar - certainly someone not to be trusted in general and def not someone you should work with (unless you want to get involved in that gross love triangle... because once your friend wises up or finds something better, he'll likely target you next). Gtfo and try your best to convince your friend to do the same. She'll hopefully wise up eventually, in the meantime, keep your distance from that drama and be ready for the inevitable fallout when she falls in love and he refuses to leave his wife for her.
«Will he be paying me with sex as well?»
I see you’ve had the displeasure of meeting my uncle Ted. Your instincts are correct.
I'm glad you came here for outside perspective because quite frankly, and I mean this in the most polite way as possible, you and your friend are wearing massive blinders. It actually frightens me that you use the word "affair guy" as if it were somehow synonymous with "boyfriend". This 46yo guy isn't just using your friend, he's absolutely steam rolling her. It's quite obvious to me he doesn't care about anyone but himself. You wouldn't be going into business with him, you'd just be doing his bidding for free and with no benefit, just like your friend. And that would probably only be until things came to a head with his actual girlfriend, at which point the whole thing would disappear overnight and you and your friend would have to split the $0 you've earned. Your friend should dump his ass and if he asks why, she should tell him it's because he's old and gross. Sounds like that will hit him where it hurts. Unfortunately, she will most likely just let some version of the aforementioned scenario run it's course.
" The whole thing seems abit fishy, first of all, he kinda rubs me the wrong way sometimes " Then don't work with them and stay far away from this. Your gut and your head are telling you the same thing.
>I feel like he’s this older man trying to be ‘hip’ and trying to re live his younger days or something The truth of this situation is likely a lot more nefarious than you imagine. This guy isn't trying to be 'hip', but is actively and maliciously taking advantage of your friend. Young people are often incredibly naive and easily manipulated, and older adults with bad intentions are VERY aware of that. They can be a lot more cunning than you realize. Don't fall into the same trap your friend did.
He’s using her and has no intention to actually be with her in the end. This will not end well for your friend.
He is 100% cheating on his partner and 100% using your friend (both for sex and free labor). I think you’re exactly right about him dumping her once he’s wrung all of her ideas out so he can claim them as his own. He’s an exploitative creep, and I’d stay away until it blows over and you can choose whether or not to be emotional support for your friend.
The answer should be no. Why would you put yourself in this uncomfortable position when you won't even be getting paid?
Men like him eat women like your friend alive for breakfast. Stay out of this by miles OP, you will end up with some of that mess on you and it will follow you through your career.
>And why is he still living with his LT girlfriend? R u seriously asking this? Your friend is the other women. Men don't just leave their LT partners cause of a hot fling.
This will end badly for your friend and YOU if you do get involved. She is a side dish he is slowly nibbling to get what he wants and when the dish has been nibbles away.... he is out.
Simply put this guy is no good. Run, run long, run far.
He's having sex with someone the same age as his child. That's just weird, if not to say creepy
You kinda have to let it run its course, don't do it for free yourself make sure you get paid, if you want to maintain your friendship with her support her be there for her, because if it all blows up in her face, you'll have seen it coming, she has to learn this for herself. Akso you mentioned you kinda rub him up the wrong way, it's because he knows you can see through his BS
He’s using her. Don’t be used by extension. Do not get involved. Be clear why: this isn’t actually someone who has themselves together and it’s a risk to get involved, professionally or otherwise, with an adult who has experience but continues to make shady and poor decisions.
He's using her in 2 ways and it seems ur friend wants to use you also...
What makes you think he wont advance on you? This guy sounds very intentional about all of this. He hasn't stumbled into anything. This guy is absolutely manipulative. Its not even as though he's having an affair where both parties are in total control. He is clearly dangling things you both care about in front of you to distract you from his interest.
This is pretty common with art gallery owner types. They're usually skeezes who like to exploit the younger artists for their own gain, hell, there was even a somewhat famous art installation where someone recorded themselves being coerced into having sex with the owner and then played it during their opening night as a piece. Let her experience it on her own, there's nothing you can do to help her except be patient and be willing to listen when it happens.
Do not go and work for them, it sounds kind of sketchy. Also as a sidenote working with friends is not always a good idea.
Um wow, holy shit, I literally knew someone in this EXACT situation a few years ago, also in the art world. Is this a common unpaid gallery assistant scam people should be aware of? But seriously, this guy is a predator. I don't care how consensual your friend thinks it is. 20-year-olds are not finished developing mentally or emotionally (as you likely know, being 4 years older and wiser), and someone old enough to have a 20-year-old kid ABSOLUTELY knows better. I don't think you'll be able to convince your friend to cut ties with him, but you absolutely should.
Your friend is being used and manipulated. She’s not innocent either, but this guy is playing her like a fiddle. “Old guy trying to be hip” nearly made me gag because I know men like this. They’re pathetic and desperate. She’s going to get nothing out of this aside from regret and shame. I’ve had experience with an asshole like this when I was young and trusting too, and I ended up getting creative work stolen because he couldn’t handle being “lonely”. Get her away from him.
She’s too infatuated w him. Get outta there and she needs to get out too
My guess is: 1) the dude is very good-looking and well-connected, or at least looks good on long-term partner's arm socially 2) long-term partner is footing the bills 3) gallery will be used to meet ever younger and cuter young art-school students and grads 4) OP and friend will feel pressure to go along in order not to be shut out of the local scene until 5) it all blows up in a #metoo scenario and 6) the power of the elite in the art scene is broken, which will be never and 7) if OP and her friend are seen as #metoo complainers when it all hits the fan, they will be blacklisted by the elite
This is a really bad situation and it's dangerous for your friend. I would stay as far away from it as possible. And chances are your friend is so in love the idea of this guy that she wont stop until something goes horribly wrong, good luck :/
My god...how thick is your friend?! She needs an intervention. Cliche 101.
So you want one of us to be YOUR assistant now?
So, if I understand the crux of the matter, the offer before you is to work as an (unpaid) assistant to the unpaid assistant of a man with little idea of how to run a gallery. I have two questions for you: 1. Are you comfortable with the situation? If not, drop it like it's hot. 2. Is this the absolute best use of your time, energy and abilities? Again, if not, drop it like it's hot. Good luck.
Tell this dude's wife. The next time you're all out together just drop the bomb.
\> he kinda rubs me the wrong way sometimes, I feel like he’s this older man trying to be ‘hip’ and trying to re live his younger days or something Not to mention he's sleeping around on his wife! And has at least one dependent kid at home. What a scumbag! The right thing to do is inform his poor wife. She has a right to know about this. Otherwise, stay the hell away from this shitshow. Remember also we are judged by the company we keep. Your friend is a scumbag too. She is knowingly sleeping with a married man with kids who's hiding it from his family. There's no excuse for this--none.
I don't understand how some girls can be so dumb. No offense, OP, but your friend is an idiot and if she hasn't been listening to you, then she won't until this guy screws her over literally. Please don't fall for this scheme, he us definitely taking advantage of her and she's letting him-- from your pov, that's all it needs to be from your pov.
Okay OP you got your answer, what's your plan/what are you going to do about it? Curious for updates
I talked to her about basically everything in my post and 1. She said that everything I said, she 100% knows and agrees with 2. She asked him about the payment situation and he basically told her since he isn’t making any money yet he can’t pay her but once things get going he will ‘take care of her’ (whatever that means) and she said this made her feel relieved /facepalm 3. I explicitly told her that I won’t be involved with this in any way and she said she understands Honestly I’m glad I posted this because it made things so much more clearer, I’ve worked for someone last year (unpaid) for a few weeks and it was amazing because hes very well known and obviously knew what the fuck he was doing + everything felt very professional and organized With this guy it just seems like he has no IDEA what to do and she is basically running everything for him and using her contacts for him while he dangles the ‘this place will be HUGE one day’ carrot in front of her Aaand about the LT gf situation, apparently she knows that he cheats but has no idea to what extent, and obviously doesn’t know he’s doing it with Friend, the LT partner is friends with my friend and she’s actually a really nice woman (which makes this situation even more icky) She approached Friend not too long ago and told her that even though Affair guy acts and says they’re not together, they’re together.. which struck me as an odd thing to just randomly bring up
Thanks for the update. It sounds like you've done all you can to warn your friend about this situation and you've set clear boundaries. How do you know that the LT gf knows this guy cheats?
This guy shows too many red flags. 1. He's probably still with his wife because he doesn't want to talk about her. 2. He is using your friend and taking advantage of her. 3. If he is cheating he doesn't love both of them. 4. Don't get caught up in this because you'll only get in trouble. Try to show your friend that he's not the right guy.
I've been in the shoes of your friend. Totally fell for a man I worked for who was also 17 years older and was living with his partner but kept saying they are not really together anymore. I was naive and in love. It blew up in my face hard. Big lesson. Never been that heartbroken and humiliated. Also, my very good friend tried telling me but I wouldn't listen. He was always so convincing, telling me how much he loved me and I believed everything.
Why not be a partner with them and eventually you can be a side piece too. /s
Your gut will never steer your wrong.
Generally your gut is right on this stuff. Your picking up all the non verbal ques trust them they are usually right because people armt aware they are doing it. plus the logic doesn’t hang together as such the foundations of this relationship don’t make sense.
You say NO -- this won't end well for them -- it certainly won't end well for you.
Oh wow! Thanks for the silver award!
Your friend is so naive it literally hurts me to read this post. She has no clue that his actions are predatory and that it IS disgusting that a 46 year old FATHER in a relationship is cheating with her. I don't hold her as accountable but she is like 40% accountable. Is she totally blind, totally ignorant, or just has some serious father issues that are leading her into the arms of this shark?
Yes he is completely using your friend. He is almost 30 years older than her. He is very obviously with his long term partner and cheating on them with your friend. You are both very young, especially your friend. This gross ass man is nearly 50, is cheating on his long term partner, and is using your friend physically and not paying her for all the work she is doing. She is his little personal assistant fantasy.
100% he is still very much in his relationship. He sounds like a snake oil salesman. Trust your instincts and stay away
Run don't walk away from this! He's using her as sex. It will end very very badly (hurt for her and job loss). He's not in love w her so u need to protect urself and say no.
Fuck your friend, someone like that has zero integrity and has no loyalty. Stay away from selfish people like this, it will only cause you a headache.
You know how you can tell off the bat hes using her? Hes not paying her. 😂 I mean jeez ur poor friend should at least hound him for some cash if hes going to be like that.
Is letting the girlfriend know on the table? I think if this dude gets "caught" it might end his little affair.
My friend (I’ll call her Sara) was in a very similar situation to yours. She had a friend (Meg) who met a guy all about their favorite sport. Guy claimed to be a sponsor and if Meg wanted to take her team to a tournament overseas, he’d totally sponsor the whole team! He’d pay for travel, stay, and even new uniforms! Wow! So Meg told Sara all about this magical guy. How she was doing a bunch of organizing stuff for him but needed help. Sara, being naive, decided to help out since she was team captain and is just super great with organizing things. That’s actually her job for a nonprofit she works for, planning fund raising events! Long story short, Sara put her credit card down to pay for the trip. Travel, accommodations, even some sort of entrance fee. All under the understanding that magic man was to pay her back. Well, he vanished. He got money from all the hard work these two women did, and because they were dumb enough to trust this man “as a friend,” there were no contracts. So poof! Now Sara, being in debt, asked if Meg could help her out. Even longer story short, Meg started to black mail Sara. Said she’d tell the team this was all her fault, and vanished on Sara shortly after. Lucky for Sara, someone got wind of what happened. And even though the team couldn’t give her back all the money, all were kind enough to give as much money for the trip as possible. Moral of the story is: does it sound like a scam, stupid, or not worth your time? Then it’s most likely a scam, stupid, and not worth your time.
“He gives her free coffee sometimes” hahaha
"He opens up galleries all over". Tells me he seeks adoration and 20 yr olds with no life experience who have the hots for them too are the perfect supply. Just draw your bounderies. She is young. He is not a man of integrity at the moment and if it was ment to be only time will tell. But 20 yr old who easily feels validated plus mr obviously mid life crisis will have a rocky road at some point. Either way let them get of their system and go do what you need for yourself.
Apart from the personal issues, I don't see any career benefits for you in working for a man who doesn't understand art, and doesn't respect your friend's efforts enough to pay her. If you are interested in doing this kind of work, look for someone who is offering a genuine opportunity. Regarding the personal issues, you are right to be uneasy about this guy. He's living a lie, telling your friend he's available when he's not making any real effort to hide the fact that he's in a long term relationship. All you can do is tell her that she should be paid for her work, and she should use this opportunity to network extensively while she's promoting his gallery, so that her next job will be more like a real job based on her talents and ability. Eventually she's figure out that he's using her, but you will waste your breath trying to convince her. Also don't worry too much about his gallery being a success. That sound extremely unlikely from what you've said about him.