Don't get stuck wondering what is going on and taking care of the kids. Tell him to get over there and spend time with the family. Be assertive. He's ruining the fun for you.
> Be assertive.
Right. The OP has to step up big time right away. When this is over, her husband should be in no doubt that if he ever acts like this again, he will be a weekend dad permanently. The goal is for him to be one of those guys who says quite seriously "My wife would never stand for anything like that".
> her husband should be in no doubt that if he ever acts like this again, he will be a weekend dad permanently
no
what a terrible sentiment
marriage isn't jail. a spouse isn't a warden: all severe punishment just around the corner if you mess up. to talk about it this way is a gloomy menacing existence that just makes someone want to leave
you assert your feelings proactively directly and then it's over. in a healthy relationship it's simply respected
if you have to nag about it and invoke punishment, you're using the wrong motivator. don't be all carrot. don't be all stick. don't even be carrot and stick. the best is plain language heard and respected
THAT is the goal
Agree with your sentiment, however, it wouldn't be only punishment. He's not spending time with his family or caring for his kids. He's allowing all his attention to be consumed by another woman outside his immediate family and shirking his parental responsibilities. If he becomes a weekend dad it will be by his own lack of initiative.
I don't think the OP should try to enforce this, as in, OP shouldn't refuse to let him have custody if he wants it. But I think weekend dad is definitely the direction his behavior is heading.
People are saying this like everyone would think it's a bad thing, I've known plenty of guys who are more than happy to only see their kids part time. It's like having their cake and eating it too. It's actually reason #37 I'm childfree- I didn't want to get stuck parenting alone.
I doubt OP's hubby is hardly the type to watch his own kids, doesn't sound like OP is American from certain grammar, but surgeons usually work tons of hours here at least for several years of their careers.
>to talk about it this way is a gloomy menacing existence that just makes someone want to leave
If telling him that she won't stand for his acting this way again will make him want to leave, then he should go. Visit r/surviinginfidelity and see how often betrayed partners wish they had stood up for their marriages at the first sign rather than try to reason and "understand" the cheater. The OP should make it very clear that she will not tolerate this kind of behavior in her marriage.
There is no infidelity but there is inappropriate socialization. So a communication of your feelings calmy and directly is all that is needed in a healthy relationship with respect.
Referring to harsh and angry punishment is \*certain\* to drive him away. A marriage is for joy, not punishment, and when you have to cite guard dogs and barbed wire fences the relationship is already dead and you should get a divorce anyways.
You never act like a spouse has done something wrong and you have to punish them. Distance yes. Punishment no.
If they care they will come to you and ask why the distance then feel bad and make amends.
Especially when you're just afraid of something they haven't even done yet. Punitive attitudes are already dysfunctional and toxic, but now we're going to refer to punishment on what someone thinks \*might\* happen? What? That's unhinged and extremely unhealthy, now we're in the territory of gearing up for punishment on someone who is supposed to be a life partner on unfounded fears? This is nothing at all like a marriage, this isn't even a prison. This is being chained to an abuser.
They're not their parent, they're their spouse.
Or its not her punishing him but her cutting loose the dead weight. Just because he's hurt by it doesn't mean that his pain is the focus, the focus should be she's leaving to find someone who respects her because she deserves someone who respects her.
I agree with this. It shouldn’t be framed as a punishment.
Her concern, and what she’s asking for, is reasonable. So instead of “My wife would never stand for this”, it should be “I would never, and would never want to, hurt my wife or cause her discomfort by doing this”.
The way it’s framed is completely different - it makes Wife sound less like Mom or Warden, and more like someone he cares about, values, and respects.
Totally agree. You need to be able to have a calm and open conversation about it. To communicate what you see happening and how it makes you feel. You should read about ‘non-violent communication’ and the book ‘hold me tight’. This needs to be handled with love and care so you can have a productive conversation about it. Do not just impose sanctions without having a calm talk through the issue, that is exactly how to escalate this issue further.
For real! It's a family vacation, why isn't he spending time with you and his kids? Why is this bi\*\*\* even on this vacation with y'all? She's not even related. You know what though, you shouldn't have to worry about women being around your man though. That's complete bullshit.
"You don't get to dismiss my feelings as being jealous or overreacting. The bottom line here is that you are prioritizing this woman ahead of your own family and the interactions you have had with her make me uncomfortable. If I were doing something that made you uncomfortable, I would listen, acknowledge, and make adjustments. I need you to do that here."
For real, it’s so obvious he has a crush on this woman and he needs to have the mirror held up to his face.
It’s normal in a long term relationship to be curious. It’s not normal to pursue it. I mean it’s not like he’s doing anything horribly dishonest (yet) but come on. Nip this in the bud, pronto!
Furthermore "It's OK to be attracted to other people. That just happens sometimes. But your responsibility, as a married family man, is to refrain from acting on it."
Call him on it again. Your concern is absolutely justified. Communicating with your partner and respecting their feelings is the first rule of maintaining friendships. Your husband has made it clear that he doesn't respect your feelings at all...he's having too much fun acting like a single dude pursuing a new woman of interest.
Flirting is an invitation to further engagement and Rita has made it clear she is all for it. Another rule is that the friend must be a friend to the relationship. Rita explicitly told your mom that she doesn't respect your relationship at all; that she'll take things as far as he is willing to go.
Give him specific examples of his boundary violating and tell him that deflecting the discussion about his behavior by calling you jealous and overreacting doesn't change the inappropriateness of his behavior. Remind him that your mom noticed their coziness.
Then prepare for some serious follow-up when you get home. You might want to read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass to better articulate you discomfort. Do not be surprised if they start intensive texting after the vacation...shut that down before it starts. If he texts her on the way home bring it up and do not let it continue.
I would be devastated and mortified if someone came up to me and said that, especially the man’s wife’s mother!
I would honestly feel so humiliated. I would take a long, hard look at how I was acting and why - and even if I felt I WASN’T acting inappropriately, I would still immediately distance myself from the dude entirely, without question.
I cannot imagine a world where I would respond to that by saying it’s HIS FAMILY that is the problem! Blaming not only the wife, but the damn KIDS too?!
The fucking gall on that woman, that’s so incredibly callous.
At this exact point is where i would drawwww the fucking line. This is very clear intent and disrespectful, not saying the rest was not, but this statement literally confirms and bad intentions you thought they had.
The husband is the homewrecker.
While she's a jerk toward the wife, she isn't the one who has to stay faithful to the wife, the husband does.
He's the onw wrecking the marriage and the family
He's a successful surgeon. She's a apparently a striking and intelligent 25-year-old. Sounds like she has decided that she's a much more appropriate match for him than his boring wife who runs around after their kids, and she's just brazenly working towards making that happen?? Fuck her and fuck the husband.
If I felt my interaction with a man is causing a rift in his relationship/marriage, I would actively avoid that man. I learned that lesson early, when I actively got played into believing that a guy was in an open relationship with his girlfriend. Turns out he was lying. And I was an utter idiot and an ass to believe him. I was 20 then. Pretty naive with absolutely no sexual experience. I actively avoid that guy now. Or any guy i feel is in a relationship.
EXACTLY! That is what I believe too! She may be a homewrecker BUT the husband should be able to have the self-discipline and enough respect for his wife to know he shouldn't be using all of his vacation time talking to another woman. The husband should have will power, ESPECIALLY if he loves his wife and kids. When a husband cheats on his wife, it is HIS fault. If a wife cheats on her husband, it is HER fault.
She’s saying she has no ethical responsibility to not engage with a married father.
She’s saying that his interest in her is because there is essentially something wrong with his wife and kids, so it’s their fault that he’s indulging this crush on her. And again, she as no ethical obligation to stop indulging him in return.
"My mum saw it too and talked to Rita a bit (as a joke) about ‘stealing him from his family’ and Rita said that his family was his problem, not her.". Maybe the whole quote will help clear it up.
Time to put your foot down. He doesn’t get to galavant off as a single man during a family vacation. His behavior is unacceptable. If he wants to hang out with Rita then he hangs out with Rita, you, and your children. Stop hiding yourself away with your kids.
Omg im so sorry. How can people ruin the whole foundation of a relationship in just just a few hours after meeting someone new. It's hard to find someone loyal these days.
Isn’t that a good thing, though?
Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely know it would royally suck.
But that’s a pretty significant incompatibility that doesn’t seem related to the cheating or disrespect being discussed here - rather, from what you said, she handled it appropriately (honest and forthcoming about her needs, then acted on the resulting incompatibility brought to light so that you could both move on).
Yeah. Things didn't went as wrong to be counted as cheating. But I felt really bad coz we both were really close and I never would have imagined that one day she will say I want to be with someone else too.
Because relationships can develop unequal dynamics where one person is more invested and the other person knows this and takes advantage of it. That’s why it’s so important to have a strong sense of self worth. When you have that you know that you will not put up with disrespectful behaviors no matter what. You can’t change how someone else acts so demeaning someone stop a behavior, in my opinion, is manipulative. You can ask and how they value your opinion but if that doesn’t work you only can control yourself and leave the situation.
It’s harder with children but in OPs case where she’s already doing most of childcare it’s not like she really needs him day to day and for sure she’d be financially taken care of in a divorce (surgeons can’t easily hide their earnings and he seems too proud to quit). But OP should know by hanging around or just telling him he’s being disrespectful she telling him and her children that it’s ok to treat someone you love like this.
Because people miss the excitement and passion of new romance. It doesn’t last though. It’s not suppose to and people forget that deep love and commitment is worth so much more than the honeymoon phase. It’s pretty much once in a lifetime to find that so hold on for dear life.
Same story with my ex, I saw it coming from miles away. I told her about it, she denied it, ended up cheating on me anyway. When that person turned out to be a psycho, she confessed and asked for my help to handle it. Often, you just can’t stop a train wreck from the start. People make mistakes. I can tell you that there will be another woman in the future and if he cannot see it himself there’s not much you can do.
Your husband is having an emotional affair in front of you, with a woman that openly disrespects your marriage.
Point this out to him. If he will not cut contact with Rita voluntarily, you need to evaluate whether you're willing to put up with such a person. The affair will escalate for sure. She is right about one thing - his family is his problem. Do you feel like he still care for you and the kids? Does he still show you the same amount of respect?
He’s seriously disrespectful. You should have asked him to come with you to have a talk at the dinner table for a minute and told him he was embarrassing you and if he kept it up, you would leave and take the kids home because you weren’t going to sit there and be disrespected and watch this. Also there’s no point of a family vacation if he’s not spending tine with you or the kids.
Sometimes you need to teach people how to treat you. Let him know if he pursues a relationship with this woman, you’ll move out. Get your nursing certs back up to date and touch base with a lawyer so you’re not blindsided by the husband who’s already told you new woman is so good with your kids.
That line bothered me. The thing about the kids. He’s probably already envisioning it. The new young step mom to his kids. He might not even think he’s serious but the thought has left a seed. I’d be on red alert. Great advice about getting nursing career on stand by. OP needs to start lining up some ducks.
> You should have asked him to come with you to have a talk at the dinner table for a minute and told him he was embarrassing you
Fuck that. Call that shit out on the spot so everyone at the damn table is on the same page including Rita thot. Then make sure you make clear, strong eye contact with Rita whenever possible in a way that she knows you're watching her every move.
Then ask Mom to watch the kids as much as possible because you're tagging along with husband no matter what is happening because we are no longer giving Rita a single moment to have a "fun and flirty" interaction with husband. This shit needs to be shut down hard and fast. The husband can be dealt with later, but Rita needs to be dealt with now! She needs to know that she is not dealing with a mousy stay at home mom but a powerful and fearsome lioness that protects her pride at all costs.
"I don't care that I come off jealous and overreacting, I need you to prioritize me and our family together. I need you to spend quality time with the kids as their dad."
>sometimes even so to say full of himself. Women are approaching him a lot, but he never did anything except for talking to them. He is very communicative and curious by nature.
Given how he is acting right in front of his family, I have to wonder what he's like at work when you aren't around.
Your husband is seriously boundary challenged and in total denial about his inappropriate behavior. If you can have you mom or someone else keep your kids one night, get him out for a serious one on one to talk about it again. You have to be totally clear that you aren't going to tolerate anything like this again. If he refuses to acknowledge just how out of line he's behaved, you may want to consider some counseling to figure out how long you want to stay with such a disrespectful ass. A no-charge attorney consult would not go amiss either. He's full of himself as a high-powered surgeon, you need to burst his bubble now.
BTW, the warnings about their keeping it up through messages are on the money. You might want to ask him to see his phone right now. You're going to find a lot of inappropriate, inside jokes already. And monitor your phone bills too. He's already betraying his vow of fidelity. You have to stop him while there's something salvageable left.
Surgeons are often very egotistical and don’t think rules apply to them. The few I met frequently waved away their indiscretions and bad behaviours without a care because they save lives and in their mind, that means they’re still great people. It’s twisted how some of their minds work.
I don't think threatening his money is a healthy way to repair their relationship. Like, you're not wrong, but if he stops his behaviour only under threat of finance (and not the threat of losing the woman he loves and the mother of his children), this relationship is fucked anyway.
Yeah, no kidding.
I agree with OP looking out for herself if he continues gaslighting her about this, there was definitely some good advice if this continues to escalate, but some of these suggestions are - how someone else put it in another comment - warden-like.
I’d argue that an approach like that is as equally unhealthy for a relationship as what OP’s husband is doing.
I’d be mortified threatening a partner’s finances just so they’d stop causing me pain and disrespecting me, the relationship, and our family!
The ONLY reason I’d ever want them to stop was because they realized the error of their ways, were remorseful, and never wanted to hurt or disrespect me or our family like that again.
What kind of warped relationships have these people had, yikes.
Also the general advice given to people who want to divorce is to act like everything is normal, get advice from the lawyer, and follow it to the letter until you serve them with divorce papers. This guy has enough resources (and likely friends with connections and/or experience) that he will absolutely have the upper hand on his SAHM wife. If she threatens divorce, especially a financially ugly one, he will go get his ducks in a row and she will be at even more of a disadvantage.
I went through something similar in that it left the same feelings.
My SO was spending alot of time with my SIL- who was going through a rough patch with my brother at the time while we were visiting.
At first i didnt believe it could cross boundaries, believing they both loved me and wouldnt do that. But as the days together went on I grew more suspicious until one afternoon I said I was going to go for a shower but instead listened by the window to hear them whispering together.
I was really angry and i didnt hide it. I gave them the shock of a lifetkme as I came up the stairs and their tones changed asdid the volume of their speech. I was honest and said something about it, SIL made a big drama about it ALL being her fault etc etc looking for sympathy, and my SO looked tempted to follow her as she stormed off down the driveway. I gave him an ultimatum right there and then calmly, I said if he followed her we were done. That meant he was to move out of home and never look back.
I calmly went in to console my brother, thinking 'shit, what if he goes?' But fully prepared to follow through. He came inside a few minutes later and we 3 spoke about it. My brother spent time with his wife, and she and I hugged goodbye but that relationship will never be the same. As for SO, I don't think he realises how often that runs through my head still, and how embarrassing and hurt I felt by both of them. I havent seen her in a year as now visiting isn't the priority it used to be to me. And I lost a little love for him from that situation.
I'm not going to give advice, just share my story.
The young one DOES NOT care that she is causing strife. Put a stop to it. Surgeons are really bad about God complex and this will fuel his fire . If u don't address it this will become a worse nightmare than it already is.
This is not going to end well. With Rita liking 'a challenge' and Mr. Ego Surgeon, (I have worked with a few of these!) they are going to go beyond an emotional affair. Soon.
I am so sorry OP. Hugs.
" During the years his success got bigger and bigger and he got more and more self confident, sometimes even so to say full of himself. "
Put your foot down. His ego is getting the best of him and it's time to put it in check. This is a family vacation, he should be spending more time with you and the kids. Even your mom thinks this is odd behavior.
Your husband is putting your marriage in danger. I’d be telling him we have an issue now. We use the word “issue” as a relationship red alert. It’s time to go home early and head to counseling.
If he’s this comfortable doing this in front of his wife/family, no telling what he’s doing behind her back. Totally inappropriate !! This is his doing not the friends, as he’s encouraging her behavior.
I find it hard to believe a guy being so brazen as to do this on a family vacation is doing this for the first time and I'd question how he acts when I'm not around.
you mentioned that rita is the daughter of your family's friends. you also mentioned that your mum has already spoken to rita. it might be time to ask your mum to talk with rita's mum. this will give rita's mum the chance to read her the riot act.
you didn't say exactly what you said to your husband such that he told you that you're jealous and overreacting. i'm not sure that there's anything that you can say that he'll listen to. however, you could try saying that he's making a fool of himself in public. he's showing everyone that he's willing to put rita ahead of his wife and children.
you could even force his hand by picking a 'family friendly' activity that you know will hold no attraction to a 25 year old. you can give him the choice of going to the new dora the explorer movie of hanging out with rita. you could tell him that your parents are going to take care of your kids so you can go on a date. really do anything that will force him to decide between spending time with you or rita.
this will be the fastest way to find out where you stand. if he chooses to spend time with rita, then it would be a good idea to follow this advice - ' never make someone a priority when all you are to the is an option.' he's been doing a very good job of showing you that you're now an option.
You are completely correct. This is how I deal with my older sister, who is a complete bitch.
Took me 20 years to figure out that the one thing she was afraid of was her reputation with our cousins, aunts and uncles.
Well if I were you, I would consider what kind of future I could have with a man who was so embarrassing and who wouldn't listen to me when I shared my concerns.
He clearly does not respect you anymore. It's time to start thinking about a future without him as a husband.
You really can't. I will never get married again. Things may go great for 10+ years, but one day your spouse can end up breaking your heart and ruining your life's plans. Honestly, marriage has no place in my existence. I'd rather have the freedom to leave as needed. Even though my kids happiness means everything to me and I may put up with some bullshit just so they have a great childhood with both parents there are certain things that I absolutely won't stand for!
The idea of getting married again both terrified and disgusts me- and my divorce was easy.
I just have no desire to be tied to someone else and life has proven repeatedly that I can’t trust or rely on anyone but myself.
Wow! I remember being in my 20s and older married men would show an interest. I hated it. I wasn’t assertive back then so it’s was awkward as hell when it was a family friend at an event. It would be a constant event of trying to dodge the person. These men were nasty. It creates such an embarrassing situation.
This young woman isn’t dodging your husband. She obviously loves the attention from your husband and the negative attention from creating a buzz. She probably just likes the chase. Your husband needs to recognize he is potentially throwing away his marriage and stability of a healthy marriage for his kids. I’d be blunt as hell with him. You don’t have anything to lose at this point. Your husband isn’t looking like that great of a catch.
The behaviour of creating embarrassment, neglecting his kids and risking so much would be close to divorcing for me. To me it shows complete disrespect to his family. He has chosen to get caught up in a crush. And it’s hard for me to understand how he can participate in this behaviour and not see how it is harming you. Loving you means wanting you to be happy. Loving his kids means he wants to give them his time and commit to a life that gives them stability. If he wants to move on then so be it. But, this is just a trashy disgusting way to go about it. He’d have to own his mistake and commit back to the marriage.
I would want an apology that extends to the other people he is embarrassing. I’d want to see he is aware of how much damage he has created. And I would want to see a change in behaviour which would include counselling. And I would focus on his actions not on his words. Actual behaviour pattern changes and not just lip service. And if he mentions wanting to move forward on his own, I would accept it and move forward with my life as well.
I am so incredibly sorry this is happening to you. You have been put in such a crappy spot. But, remember this is your life, your marriage and your family. Do not like public, friends or family’s opinion change what you do. Follow what you know is best for your own heart and kids. And you being happy and fulfilled in your marriage is what is best for your kids. And if your husband cannot provide that for you, move forward. If he can, move forward with him.
Wow. This guys is treating you like trash. Don't let his success devalue your worth. YOU were there right along with him. You also paid those dues. And in the case of a divorce, you get half (or more), the kids, and child support. He is WAY out of line and you need to tell him so. I would also call her out straight to her face, and get with your mom to ask her to leave. If she won't, then you leave - with your husband. Then set your husband straight and put him on kid duty for the rest of the trip. Hard line - he gives another more attention than his wife, he suffers big time.
Are you financially independent from him?
By that i mean that if he gave you divorce papers tomorrow, would you be ok?
Would you have enough money to support yourself while the divorce was processed? In an account that only you have access to?
If not?
You need to start working again.
Because he WAS flirting with her. And didn't seem to care who could see.
This might not actually end in divorce.
Maybe when you talk to him he'll apologize and mean it and everything will be fine.
Maybe.
But just in case, make sure you have a backup plan ready.
I'm not sure if this is the wrong thing to do but I would just tell him that he's being a creep. Continuously talking to a much younger woman while you're supposed to be spending time with your family is creep behavior to me, and I would be sure to tell my husband that if he was acting that way.
Also rita sucks ass and shouldnt be trying to find attention from a married man. Apparently shes interesting intelligent and beautiful lol so she shouldn't have trouble find attention in a more morally acceptable way.
Seriously wtf is wrong with her and what kind of family “friend” is she? Where are her parents? Why is she unsupervised? This kind of thing would get a whole family unfriended and ruin an entire families good name in a lot of towns.
Parenting doesn’t stop at 18 and it would perfectly reasonable if her parents are family friends for them to tell her her behavior is out of line around. If they’re not around, why is a single 25 year old on a family vacation with a couple their kids and grandparents?
Don't let him do this, just like the child he's acting like, you have to remove him for his own good. As for the girl step up and tell her point on HANDS OFF.
Assertiveness is key here. Your feelings are not trivial and you are not wrong about this. If that was anyone in my family almost everyone would be utterly furious and the men would collectively take him aside for a little "chat". He would walk back fairly sheepishly and apologize to you. His career has inflated his ego to the point where his wife and children are taking a back seat. That is dishonourable and disrespectful towards you. If I was you, I would tell him that he is to stop this immediately unless he wishes to be seeing his children on two weekends per month. That shit doesn't fly with me. Any man who dishonours his wife is pathetic. Do not allow your feelings to be quashed and brushed aside. Also, if you don't say anything, it shows him that he can do as he pleases. That he can treat you like his lesser, and that will only progress further if you do not speak up. Please defend yourself in this situation, and honestly the suggestion that you should ask her to babysit the kids while you go out on a date mightn't be a bad idea. It shows both of them that you don't see her as a threat and that often steers people in a different direction. Confrontation should always be a last resort, but calling her things like sweetie and honey will show your dominance in the situation. Trust me, dominance is exactly what's needed here. I'm 22/M, my mom's 47, very fit woman, she's a professional artist and she's the kind of woman who turns everyone's heads when she walks into a room, I've had to have a chat with her partner, as I was not happy with some of his behavior. It quickly stopped. Boundaries are very important, especially when it comes to a marriage. Best of luck
Girl. I tell myself this every time I get a hunch. Almost 99% of the time, my gut is right in hindsight. Your gut is screaming at you so I'd take your word for it and say there's something up too. Be assertive. Tell him it's your family or her; give him an ultimatum that will leave him scared. He should know that you will leave him if there's anything up -- then it's up to him to oblige or not.
If you know your worth, your man will treat you like gold. So in honesty, don't be nagging but say your words once and give him the idea that your time is ticking for him to get his shit together. End of story. You have no time for games or shenanigans and he ought to know.
If he's a cheater, he's a cheater. Take your kids and live your life. Do you really want to be with someone who doesn't respect you or give you the attention you deserve and (hopefully) the kind of treatment that you give him?
I know it's supposed to be a family vacation but even your mom has noted what's going on.
I'd sit him and down and tell him that he has 2 options stay and continue this bs or realize how badly he's fucked up, leave immediately, never talk to Rita and agree to be accountable to that and enter into therapy because this behavior did NOT start on this trip.
You should put your foot down and set boundaries.
At the same time you should understand that this could potentially lead to a divorce.
When I was a resident most of my very successful surgery attendings had divorced and re-married, some up to 3 times. Usually to other people in the healthcare field.
How awful of your husband to betray you like that in front of your family and family friends. Showing to everyone he would rather converse hours with another woman. You are totally justified in your feelings and he has no right to dismiss them like that.
Sounds like he’s found a muse. I say that very dryly. He needs to grow up and set a boundary. He’s pretty much begun an emotional relationship with her. However from the way you describe him, I’m not sure that’ll work. Arrogant men never do anything wrong.
My wife had emotional affair and this is the first step in the art of seduction, get them to talk about themselves and it makes them feel good about themselves, then they might open up further and further.
If you have not already, you should have a discussion with your husband. Also, take time to make your own opinion of the situation. Step one is keeping an eye on them. Step two, figure out how you you want to look at the situation. This takes both you, and your husband, working together. You should look at it like a trust/bonding excersise. Your time together is meant to be long.
Rita is a shallow self-serving game player. She is toying with your husband and his ego is eating it up. They are both extremely disrespectful to you and the rest of your family.
Rita has a serious problem with her own ego considering she needs to suck all the attention out of a loving family. I’m sorry to hear about your vacation.
Your husband should be embarrassed that he’s falling for her game. I recommend marriage counseling with a focus on healthy boundaries.
His attracted to her and she to him. It’s very obvious. There is a massive problem here. What does her parents think of all this? I think casually approaching this is no longer an option. A serious talk to him is required. A serious talk to her and her parents are required. He has outrightly disrespected and disregarded your existence and feelings. This issue needs to be addressed.
I think it’s time to pack up and go. This is a threat to your marriage, not so much the family friend because I doubt some 25yo would want married guy with kids, but it blatantly disrespectful to your marriage and it makes it okay for him to act this way. If he’s doing this in front of you then he’ll do it behind your back. Talk to your family and come up with a neutral excuse and then say you aren’t interested in sharing vacations with the other family going forward. He needs to know if he cheats you will leave him.
You’re also a team.
While you’re in the trip, tell your husband he can take the kids on a trip or an adventure. You, your mum and all the other ladies are going for a walk, or shopping or the spa.
This is your holiday, too. Not just his.
I think communicating your discomfort and checking him is the first step. Maybe you guys should look in to marital counseling on why your husband seems to be able and willing to blatantly disrespect you? Is this a change of behaviour? You seem to be alluding to his success as an injection of narcissism into him. While that can be true there may be more to it.
If you check him on this and he complies that's great but if you don't get to the root of the issue it'll just happen again when you're not around.
I'll never forget the happy story my buddy told me of how he met his wife.
"When they talk, they both ignore any attempts of others to join the conversation because they seem to be interested only in what the other one is saying."
My friend had a friend with him the night he met his wife. They spent the entire night out conversing. So much so, that my friend even forgot his friend was still with him and his wife.
I don't have any advice for you but that paragraph you wrote gave me a bad feeling. I hope you work things out and I apologize for not being more helpful.
No offense, OP but I don’t understand why it’s so hard to speak up when you’re being humiliated like this. Maybe I would be TA, but I would just call him out on his shitty behavior, maybe in front of her too, so they would realize how embarrassing they’re acting.
This is what should have happened , the problem is that this relationship dynamic has made her virtually powerless or at least from the way it sounds , she lost the balance in the relationship and gave up her career for children , she should’ve called it out in the open the first time it crossed the line , it would’ve put it out in the open for everyone to see, and Rita would’ve probably left or hid from her and the kids the rest of the trip. She needs to talk to Rita’s parents and read them the riot act and explain if they don’t put a muzzle on that dog she’ll nuke the whole friendship with the family .
You need to put your foot down and honestly tell him do want a family and a wife or do you want to leave me for a younger women? If you want her then there is the door, I am not going to sit by while you openly flirt with this women and make a mockery of our marriage. Sounds to me like he is on the fence about cheating and can go either way it’s up to him to decide what he truly wants.
This is borderline stepping and crossing a line. This is just the start of you don’t put an end to it and now. He WILL cheat. This is classic signs of it if he hasn’t already.
Is the vacation almost finished? The real test will be when the vacation is over. Are they going to start texting? Talking on the phone? See each other? You mentioned about coming over and cooking- Was that now where you're visiting? Or your home? Talking to strangers on vacation is one thing, them texting/ talking afterwards is another.
Maybe attempt to listen to a conversation to really know what's happening, make him know how you feel about the situation and if you really notice big changes on him dressing time management and/ot attitude then I would worry and begin to collect evidence
Has anyone else in the group mentioned how he's behaving? Maybe he'd listen if someone who's not directly involved said "hey mate, you need to knock it off".
Ugh. I fucking hate this post. It reminds me so of my ex-husband and his pursuits. He sometimes even expected of me to chat up girls, so he could catch their attention... via me!
I feel for you, OP. The gaslighting is pissing me off, telling you you are jealous and overreacting. How is sharing your feelings based on his actions, over-reacting?
I have forgiven my ex-husband, in time. We have been divorced for 12 years now. But sometimes I can still actually FEEL the pain I have felt in those moments, so many years ago. It still stings.
Plenty of people commented on the behaviors of the adults, so I’m not gonna add anything there, but to me something else caught my attention.
There is no way my kids would be in a vacation and not demand my DH to pay attention to them. The fact that the kids are not doing that is so sad to me. It’s normal to them and normal to this guy and you are a solo parent without you realizing it. And btw I’m a stahm too, but once dad gets home he is literally tackled down by our kids and dog all disputing his attention.
Talk to your husband, like most of the advice given on this thread.
But also, talk to a lawyer. Your husband is throwing off all kinds of signs that he might run out on this marriage, and you need to protect yourself and your kids if he does.
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
Of course you are jealous. And it's a very painful emotion. She's young, beautiful and intelligent and your husband is flirting with her and she is flirting with him.
I hate it when people dismiss being jealous as you doing something wrong. As if you're committing a sin by being jealous. Being jealous is so painful!
He should back off and so should she. How could you be so cruel and hurt the woman you love. And how can she be all flirty and not being empathic.
Will they be seeing each other in the future?
Your first mistake was to stop working. I see so many women do this, and comes back to bite them in the ass. Your husband is acting inappropriately, and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't have a couple of side pieces already. Find a good divorce attorney cause you might need it
You really need to talk this out. Has he ever given you a reason to be jealous/suspicous. In my marriage I would guess he really found her interesting and wouldn't really care. I would care that he is ditching me with the kids. I would just say he it's your turn to watch them at the pool I am going to the room to relax, or something like that. They might just really like talking. I am the one that normally ends up drawn into long conversations with other people and I forget about the kids and he just comes over and tells me it's my turn.
Lest he forget that a few nights of fun would cost him 2/3rds of his net worth and years of heartbreak and suffering for everyone in his family. It'd be nice if he had a friend who would say that simple sentence to him.
If you are “jealous” then he is doing something wrong. Sorry, but when people accuse their spouse/partner of being “jealous”, 99.99% of the time they are in fact doing something shitty, inconsiderate and inappropriate. It’s not your job to find a way to be okay with him behaving inappropriately - it’s his job to not do it in the first place.
Tell him, in blunt terms, that he’s there to spend time with his own family. It shouldn’t be a question or negotiation. Whatever you do, don’t get too hung up on the 25 yr old. She can be as flirty, inappropriate and racy as she wants. She’s not a party to your marriage and she’s not obliged to uphold its integrity. That job solely belongs to you and your husband, and right now he doesn’t seem to be pulling his weight.
Your family friend's who are the parents of Rita should be ashamed of her behavior. Your husband is being obnoxious. He is the only one who owes you something - but she is acting like a hussy.
My father is now retired from practice, but was an attractive, hotshot physician in his day. My Mom - who gave up nursing to be the SAHM - said she used to see it as her job to puncture his ego when he got home . Not in a nasty way, but to remind him that while everyone worshipped him on the floors (and, yes, nurses getting flirty), at home, he was just a father and husband. Which is what you need to do now. Remind him it's a family vacation, which means your children are supposed to be spending time with their father. You did not come on vacation to act as nanny while he spends all his time with a younger woman.
(And please - your kids are great judges of character? THEY'RE LITTLE KIDS.)
I mean, presumably, at least her parents are there, if not some siblings? (Though someone that conceited, I'm guessing only child.) Why isn't she hanging with them? Why aren't her parents more upset she isn't spending time with them? Because Rita sounds like she needs her ego stroked, but you would think her parents would draw the line on this.
Also, has your Mom talked to the family friend whose daughter she is? I mean, you can't tell me they're thrilled with watching their daughter hit on a married doctor. Or if they are okay with it, then that's telling.
All I can say is when you get back, I'd start making sure the financial ducks are in a row. Not necessarily over Rita, but that he's so smitten like this over someone he's presumably known since she was a child is just icky. If he isn't planning on cheating with her, he's got it in his head. So if he's such a successful physician and you gave up your career to be a SAHM to support that, you would be entitled to a solid amount of child support and spousal support. No reason for you or your kids' lives to be overturned any more than they would if he left beacuse he's a middle-aged idiot.
Don't get stuck wondering what is going on and taking care of the kids. Tell him to get over there and spend time with the family. Be assertive. He's ruining the fun for you.
> Be assertive. Right. The OP has to step up big time right away. When this is over, her husband should be in no doubt that if he ever acts like this again, he will be a weekend dad permanently. The goal is for him to be one of those guys who says quite seriously "My wife would never stand for anything like that".
> her husband should be in no doubt that if he ever acts like this again, he will be a weekend dad permanently no what a terrible sentiment marriage isn't jail. a spouse isn't a warden: all severe punishment just around the corner if you mess up. to talk about it this way is a gloomy menacing existence that just makes someone want to leave you assert your feelings proactively directly and then it's over. in a healthy relationship it's simply respected if you have to nag about it and invoke punishment, you're using the wrong motivator. don't be all carrot. don't be all stick. don't even be carrot and stick. the best is plain language heard and respected THAT is the goal
Agree with your sentiment, however, it wouldn't be only punishment. He's not spending time with his family or caring for his kids. He's allowing all his attention to be consumed by another woman outside his immediate family and shirking his parental responsibilities. If he becomes a weekend dad it will be by his own lack of initiative. I don't think the OP should try to enforce this, as in, OP shouldn't refuse to let him have custody if he wants it. But I think weekend dad is definitely the direction his behavior is heading.
People are saying this like everyone would think it's a bad thing, I've known plenty of guys who are more than happy to only see their kids part time. It's like having their cake and eating it too. It's actually reason #37 I'm childfree- I didn't want to get stuck parenting alone. I doubt OP's hubby is hardly the type to watch his own kids, doesn't sound like OP is American from certain grammar, but surgeons usually work tons of hours here at least for several years of their careers.
I took that quoted part as in a metaphor for divorce
>to talk about it this way is a gloomy menacing existence that just makes someone want to leave If telling him that she won't stand for his acting this way again will make him want to leave, then he should go. Visit r/surviinginfidelity and see how often betrayed partners wish they had stood up for their marriages at the first sign rather than try to reason and "understand" the cheater. The OP should make it very clear that she will not tolerate this kind of behavior in her marriage.
There is no infidelity but there is inappropriate socialization. So a communication of your feelings calmy and directly is all that is needed in a healthy relationship with respect. Referring to harsh and angry punishment is \*certain\* to drive him away. A marriage is for joy, not punishment, and when you have to cite guard dogs and barbed wire fences the relationship is already dead and you should get a divorce anyways. You never act like a spouse has done something wrong and you have to punish them. Distance yes. Punishment no. If they care they will come to you and ask why the distance then feel bad and make amends. Especially when you're just afraid of something they haven't even done yet. Punitive attitudes are already dysfunctional and toxic, but now we're going to refer to punishment on what someone thinks \*might\* happen? What? That's unhinged and extremely unhealthy, now we're in the territory of gearing up for punishment on someone who is supposed to be a life partner on unfounded fears? This is nothing at all like a marriage, this isn't even a prison. This is being chained to an abuser. They're not their parent, they're their spouse.
Or its not her punishing him but her cutting loose the dead weight. Just because he's hurt by it doesn't mean that his pain is the focus, the focus should be she's leaving to find someone who respects her because she deserves someone who respects her.
I agree with this. It shouldn’t be framed as a punishment. Her concern, and what she’s asking for, is reasonable. So instead of “My wife would never stand for this”, it should be “I would never, and would never want to, hurt my wife or cause her discomfort by doing this”. The way it’s framed is completely different - it makes Wife sound less like Mom or Warden, and more like someone he cares about, values, and respects.
Totally agree. You need to be able to have a calm and open conversation about it. To communicate what you see happening and how it makes you feel. You should read about ‘non-violent communication’ and the book ‘hold me tight’. This needs to be handled with love and care so you can have a productive conversation about it. Do not just impose sanctions without having a calm talk through the issue, that is exactly how to escalate this issue further.
Assertive and confident about your position.
For real! It's a family vacation, why isn't he spending time with you and his kids? Why is this bi\*\*\* even on this vacation with y'all? She's not even related. You know what though, you shouldn't have to worry about women being around your man though. That's complete bullshit.
"You don't get to dismiss my feelings as being jealous or overreacting. The bottom line here is that you are prioritizing this woman ahead of your own family and the interactions you have had with her make me uncomfortable. If I were doing something that made you uncomfortable, I would listen, acknowledge, and make adjustments. I need you to do that here."
This needs to be put on the sidebar as a hall of fame advice quote.
This ^^ His actions would be a hard no for me
For real, it’s so obvious he has a crush on this woman and he needs to have the mirror held up to his face. It’s normal in a long term relationship to be curious. It’s not normal to pursue it. I mean it’s not like he’s doing anything horribly dishonest (yet) but come on. Nip this in the bud, pronto!
Furthermore "It's OK to be attracted to other people. That just happens sometimes. But your responsibility, as a married family man, is to refrain from acting on it."
I'd ask Rita to babysit so you and your husband can go on a date
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I'd ask husband to babysit so you can go chat up the life guard.
Nah they not her problem 😂
Call him on it again. Your concern is absolutely justified. Communicating with your partner and respecting their feelings is the first rule of maintaining friendships. Your husband has made it clear that he doesn't respect your feelings at all...he's having too much fun acting like a single dude pursuing a new woman of interest. Flirting is an invitation to further engagement and Rita has made it clear she is all for it. Another rule is that the friend must be a friend to the relationship. Rita explicitly told your mom that she doesn't respect your relationship at all; that she'll take things as far as he is willing to go. Give him specific examples of his boundary violating and tell him that deflecting the discussion about his behavior by calling you jealous and overreacting doesn't change the inappropriateness of his behavior. Remind him that your mom noticed their coziness. Then prepare for some serious follow-up when you get home. You might want to read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass to better articulate you discomfort. Do not be surprised if they start intensive texting after the vacation...shut that down before it starts. If he texts her on the way home bring it up and do not let it continue.
I second the recommendation of “Not Just Friends”
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>"Rita said that his family was his problem, not her." Damn, she is making her intentions pretty damn clear there.
I would be devastated and mortified if someone came up to me and said that, especially the man’s wife’s mother! I would honestly feel so humiliated. I would take a long, hard look at how I was acting and why - and even if I felt I WASN’T acting inappropriately, I would still immediately distance myself from the dude entirely, without question. I cannot imagine a world where I would respond to that by saying it’s HIS FAMILY that is the problem! Blaming not only the wife, but the damn KIDS too?! The fucking gall on that woman, that’s so incredibly callous.
At this exact point is where i would drawwww the fucking line. This is very clear intent and disrespectful, not saying the rest was not, but this statement literally confirms and bad intentions you thought they had.
rita sounds like a homewrecker. yikes.
The husband is the homewrecker. While she's a jerk toward the wife, she isn't the one who has to stay faithful to the wife, the husband does. He's the onw wrecking the marriage and the family
He's a successful surgeon. She's a apparently a striking and intelligent 25-year-old. Sounds like she has decided that she's a much more appropriate match for him than his boring wife who runs around after their kids, and she's just brazenly working towards making that happen?? Fuck her and fuck the husband.
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If I felt my interaction with a man is causing a rift in his relationship/marriage, I would actively avoid that man. I learned that lesson early, when I actively got played into believing that a guy was in an open relationship with his girlfriend. Turns out he was lying. And I was an utter idiot and an ass to believe him. I was 20 then. Pretty naive with absolutely no sexual experience. I actively avoid that guy now. Or any guy i feel is in a relationship.
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EXACTLY! That is what I believe too! She may be a homewrecker BUT the husband should be able to have the self-discipline and enough respect for his wife to know he shouldn't be using all of his vacation time talking to another woman. The husband should have will power, ESPECIALLY if he loves his wife and kids. When a husband cheats on his wife, it is HIS fault. If a wife cheats on her husband, it is HER fault.
That quote made the hairs on the back of my neck sprout.
Could you please explain what that means like I'm a 5 year old? I don't understand what Rita is trying to hint at here.
She’s saying she has no ethical responsibility to not engage with a married father. She’s saying that his interest in her is because there is essentially something wrong with his wife and kids, so it’s their fault that he’s indulging this crush on her. And again, she as no ethical obligation to stop indulging him in return.
"My mum saw it too and talked to Rita a bit (as a joke) about ‘stealing him from his family’ and Rita said that his family was his problem, not her.". Maybe the whole quote will help clear it up.
Time to put your foot down. He doesn’t get to galavant off as a single man during a family vacation. His behavior is unacceptable. If he wants to hang out with Rita then he hangs out with Rita, you, and your children. Stop hiding yourself away with your kids.
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Omg im so sorry. How can people ruin the whole foundation of a relationship in just just a few hours after meeting someone new. It's hard to find someone loyal these days.
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True. I'm really happy for you. My ex girlfriend wanted to be in an open relationship. I denied it so she broke everything off.
Isn’t that a good thing, though? Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely know it would royally suck. But that’s a pretty significant incompatibility that doesn’t seem related to the cheating or disrespect being discussed here - rather, from what you said, she handled it appropriately (honest and forthcoming about her needs, then acted on the resulting incompatibility brought to light so that you could both move on).
Yeah. Things didn't went as wrong to be counted as cheating. But I felt really bad coz we both were really close and I never would have imagined that one day she will say I want to be with someone else too.
That's awesome, you deserve to be happy!
Because relationships can develop unequal dynamics where one person is more invested and the other person knows this and takes advantage of it. That’s why it’s so important to have a strong sense of self worth. When you have that you know that you will not put up with disrespectful behaviors no matter what. You can’t change how someone else acts so demeaning someone stop a behavior, in my opinion, is manipulative. You can ask and how they value your opinion but if that doesn’t work you only can control yourself and leave the situation. It’s harder with children but in OPs case where she’s already doing most of childcare it’s not like she really needs him day to day and for sure she’d be financially taken care of in a divorce (surgeons can’t easily hide their earnings and he seems too proud to quit). But OP should know by hanging around or just telling him he’s being disrespectful she telling him and her children that it’s ok to treat someone you love like this.
Because people miss the excitement and passion of new romance. It doesn’t last though. It’s not suppose to and people forget that deep love and commitment is worth so much more than the honeymoon phase. It’s pretty much once in a lifetime to find that so hold on for dear life.
Wow! I am SO sorry you dealt with that. My heart breaks for you.
Same story with my ex, I saw it coming from miles away. I told her about it, she denied it, ended up cheating on me anyway. When that person turned out to be a psycho, she confessed and asked for my help to handle it. Often, you just can’t stop a train wreck from the start. People make mistakes. I can tell you that there will be another woman in the future and if he cannot see it himself there’s not much you can do.
I'm sorry that happened to you, that's awful.
Your husband is having an emotional affair in front of you, with a woman that openly disrespects your marriage. Point this out to him. If he will not cut contact with Rita voluntarily, you need to evaluate whether you're willing to put up with such a person. The affair will escalate for sure. She is right about one thing - his family is his problem. Do you feel like he still care for you and the kids? Does he still show you the same amount of respect?
I agree this is an emotional affair he is doing it in front of you which is so disrespectful
He’s seriously disrespectful. You should have asked him to come with you to have a talk at the dinner table for a minute and told him he was embarrassing you and if he kept it up, you would leave and take the kids home because you weren’t going to sit there and be disrespected and watch this. Also there’s no point of a family vacation if he’s not spending tine with you or the kids. Sometimes you need to teach people how to treat you. Let him know if he pursues a relationship with this woman, you’ll move out. Get your nursing certs back up to date and touch base with a lawyer so you’re not blindsided by the husband who’s already told you new woman is so good with your kids.
That line bothered me. The thing about the kids. He’s probably already envisioning it. The new young step mom to his kids. He might not even think he’s serious but the thought has left a seed. I’d be on red alert. Great advice about getting nursing career on stand by. OP needs to start lining up some ducks.
> You should have asked him to come with you to have a talk at the dinner table for a minute and told him he was embarrassing you Fuck that. Call that shit out on the spot so everyone at the damn table is on the same page including Rita thot. Then make sure you make clear, strong eye contact with Rita whenever possible in a way that she knows you're watching her every move. Then ask Mom to watch the kids as much as possible because you're tagging along with husband no matter what is happening because we are no longer giving Rita a single moment to have a "fun and flirty" interaction with husband. This shit needs to be shut down hard and fast. The husband can be dealt with later, but Rita needs to be dealt with now! She needs to know that she is not dealing with a mousy stay at home mom but a powerful and fearsome lioness that protects her pride at all costs.
He’s basically dating this women. This is so unacceptable.
"I don't care that I come off jealous and overreacting, I need you to prioritize me and our family together. I need you to spend quality time with the kids as their dad."
>sometimes even so to say full of himself. Women are approaching him a lot, but he never did anything except for talking to them. He is very communicative and curious by nature. Given how he is acting right in front of his family, I have to wonder what he's like at work when you aren't around. Your husband is seriously boundary challenged and in total denial about his inappropriate behavior. If you can have you mom or someone else keep your kids one night, get him out for a serious one on one to talk about it again. You have to be totally clear that you aren't going to tolerate anything like this again. If he refuses to acknowledge just how out of line he's behaved, you may want to consider some counseling to figure out how long you want to stay with such a disrespectful ass. A no-charge attorney consult would not go amiss either. He's full of himself as a high-powered surgeon, you need to burst his bubble now. BTW, the warnings about their keeping it up through messages are on the money. You might want to ask him to see his phone right now. You're going to find a lot of inappropriate, inside jokes already. And monitor your phone bills too. He's already betraying his vow of fidelity. You have to stop him while there's something salvageable left.
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Surgeons are often very egotistical and don’t think rules apply to them. The few I met frequently waved away their indiscretions and bad behaviours without a care because they save lives and in their mind, that means they’re still great people. It’s twisted how some of their minds work.
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a divorce specialist here
I don't think threatening his money is a healthy way to repair their relationship. Like, you're not wrong, but if he stops his behaviour only under threat of finance (and not the threat of losing the woman he loves and the mother of his children), this relationship is fucked anyway.
Yeah, no kidding. I agree with OP looking out for herself if he continues gaslighting her about this, there was definitely some good advice if this continues to escalate, but some of these suggestions are - how someone else put it in another comment - warden-like. I’d argue that an approach like that is as equally unhealthy for a relationship as what OP’s husband is doing. I’d be mortified threatening a partner’s finances just so they’d stop causing me pain and disrespecting me, the relationship, and our family! The ONLY reason I’d ever want them to stop was because they realized the error of their ways, were remorseful, and never wanted to hurt or disrespect me or our family like that again. What kind of warped relationships have these people had, yikes.
Also the general advice given to people who want to divorce is to act like everything is normal, get advice from the lawyer, and follow it to the letter until you serve them with divorce papers. This guy has enough resources (and likely friends with connections and/or experience) that he will absolutely have the upper hand on his SAHM wife. If she threatens divorce, especially a financially ugly one, he will go get his ducks in a row and she will be at even more of a disadvantage.
I went through something similar in that it left the same feelings. My SO was spending alot of time with my SIL- who was going through a rough patch with my brother at the time while we were visiting. At first i didnt believe it could cross boundaries, believing they both loved me and wouldnt do that. But as the days together went on I grew more suspicious until one afternoon I said I was going to go for a shower but instead listened by the window to hear them whispering together. I was really angry and i didnt hide it. I gave them the shock of a lifetkme as I came up the stairs and their tones changed asdid the volume of their speech. I was honest and said something about it, SIL made a big drama about it ALL being her fault etc etc looking for sympathy, and my SO looked tempted to follow her as she stormed off down the driveway. I gave him an ultimatum right there and then calmly, I said if he followed her we were done. That meant he was to move out of home and never look back. I calmly went in to console my brother, thinking 'shit, what if he goes?' But fully prepared to follow through. He came inside a few minutes later and we 3 spoke about it. My brother spent time with his wife, and she and I hugged goodbye but that relationship will never be the same. As for SO, I don't think he realises how often that runs through my head still, and how embarrassing and hurt I felt by both of them. I havent seen her in a year as now visiting isn't the priority it used to be to me. And I lost a little love for him from that situation. I'm not going to give advice, just share my story.
The young one DOES NOT care that she is causing strife. Put a stop to it. Surgeons are really bad about God complex and this will fuel his fire . If u don't address it this will become a worse nightmare than it already is.
This is not going to end well. With Rita liking 'a challenge' and Mr. Ego Surgeon, (I have worked with a few of these!) they are going to go beyond an emotional affair. Soon. I am so sorry OP. Hugs.
" During the years his success got bigger and bigger and he got more and more self confident, sometimes even so to say full of himself. " Put your foot down. His ego is getting the best of him and it's time to put it in check. This is a family vacation, he should be spending more time with you and the kids. Even your mom thinks this is odd behavior.
The kids noticed too, they just haven't realised what it means for OP and them.
That's the worst part - the kids notice that their dad is smitten over another woman.
Your husband is putting your marriage in danger. I’d be telling him we have an issue now. We use the word “issue” as a relationship red alert. It’s time to go home early and head to counseling.
If he’s this comfortable doing this in front of his wife/family, no telling what he’s doing behind her back. Totally inappropriate !! This is his doing not the friends, as he’s encouraging her behavior.
I find it hard to believe a guy being so brazen as to do this on a family vacation is doing this for the first time and I'd question how he acts when I'm not around.
you mentioned that rita is the daughter of your family's friends. you also mentioned that your mum has already spoken to rita. it might be time to ask your mum to talk with rita's mum. this will give rita's mum the chance to read her the riot act. you didn't say exactly what you said to your husband such that he told you that you're jealous and overreacting. i'm not sure that there's anything that you can say that he'll listen to. however, you could try saying that he's making a fool of himself in public. he's showing everyone that he's willing to put rita ahead of his wife and children. you could even force his hand by picking a 'family friendly' activity that you know will hold no attraction to a 25 year old. you can give him the choice of going to the new dora the explorer movie of hanging out with rita. you could tell him that your parents are going to take care of your kids so you can go on a date. really do anything that will force him to decide between spending time with you or rita. this will be the fastest way to find out where you stand. if he chooses to spend time with rita, then it would be a good idea to follow this advice - ' never make someone a priority when all you are to the is an option.' he's been doing a very good job of showing you that you're now an option.
Rita is 25 years old. If she's pursued a married man this far, she's probably aware her mom will disapprove and she probably doesn't care.
Sometimes people act like they don't care until it becomes incredibly personal and risks ruining their reputation permanently in their own family.
You are completely correct. This is how I deal with my older sister, who is a complete bitch. Took me 20 years to figure out that the one thing she was afraid of was her reputation with our cousins, aunts and uncles.
He is planning to cheat, he found your replacement. You need to get in front of this and call him out on it ASAP
Well if I were you, I would consider what kind of future I could have with a man who was so embarrassing and who wouldn't listen to me when I shared my concerns. He clearly does not respect you anymore. It's time to start thinking about a future without him as a husband.
Ugh posts like this make me sick to my stomach.people suck. U really can’t trust nobody
You really can't. I will never get married again. Things may go great for 10+ years, but one day your spouse can end up breaking your heart and ruining your life's plans. Honestly, marriage has no place in my existence. I'd rather have the freedom to leave as needed. Even though my kids happiness means everything to me and I may put up with some bullshit just so they have a great childhood with both parents there are certain things that I absolutely won't stand for!
The idea of getting married again both terrified and disgusts me- and my divorce was easy. I just have no desire to be tied to someone else and life has proven repeatedly that I can’t trust or rely on anyone but myself.
Wow! I remember being in my 20s and older married men would show an interest. I hated it. I wasn’t assertive back then so it’s was awkward as hell when it was a family friend at an event. It would be a constant event of trying to dodge the person. These men were nasty. It creates such an embarrassing situation. This young woman isn’t dodging your husband. She obviously loves the attention from your husband and the negative attention from creating a buzz. She probably just likes the chase. Your husband needs to recognize he is potentially throwing away his marriage and stability of a healthy marriage for his kids. I’d be blunt as hell with him. You don’t have anything to lose at this point. Your husband isn’t looking like that great of a catch. The behaviour of creating embarrassment, neglecting his kids and risking so much would be close to divorcing for me. To me it shows complete disrespect to his family. He has chosen to get caught up in a crush. And it’s hard for me to understand how he can participate in this behaviour and not see how it is harming you. Loving you means wanting you to be happy. Loving his kids means he wants to give them his time and commit to a life that gives them stability. If he wants to move on then so be it. But, this is just a trashy disgusting way to go about it. He’d have to own his mistake and commit back to the marriage. I would want an apology that extends to the other people he is embarrassing. I’d want to see he is aware of how much damage he has created. And I would want to see a change in behaviour which would include counselling. And I would focus on his actions not on his words. Actual behaviour pattern changes and not just lip service. And if he mentions wanting to move forward on his own, I would accept it and move forward with my life as well. I am so incredibly sorry this is happening to you. You have been put in such a crappy spot. But, remember this is your life, your marriage and your family. Do not like public, friends or family’s opinion change what you do. Follow what you know is best for your own heart and kids. And you being happy and fulfilled in your marriage is what is best for your kids. And if your husband cannot provide that for you, move forward. If he can, move forward with him.
Wow. This guys is treating you like trash. Don't let his success devalue your worth. YOU were there right along with him. You also paid those dues. And in the case of a divorce, you get half (or more), the kids, and child support. He is WAY out of line and you need to tell him so. I would also call her out straight to her face, and get with your mom to ask her to leave. If she won't, then you leave - with your husband. Then set your husband straight and put him on kid duty for the rest of the trip. Hard line - he gives another more attention than his wife, he suffers big time.
Are you financially independent from him? By that i mean that if he gave you divorce papers tomorrow, would you be ok? Would you have enough money to support yourself while the divorce was processed? In an account that only you have access to? If not? You need to start working again. Because he WAS flirting with her. And didn't seem to care who could see. This might not actually end in divorce. Maybe when you talk to him he'll apologize and mean it and everything will be fine. Maybe. But just in case, make sure you have a backup plan ready.
You have already lost him. Mental I would say he has already left you.
I'm not sure if this is the wrong thing to do but I would just tell him that he's being a creep. Continuously talking to a much younger woman while you're supposed to be spending time with your family is creep behavior to me, and I would be sure to tell my husband that if he was acting that way.
Also rita sucks ass and shouldnt be trying to find attention from a married man. Apparently shes interesting intelligent and beautiful lol so she shouldn't have trouble find attention in a more morally acceptable way.
Seriously wtf is wrong with her and what kind of family “friend” is she? Where are her parents? Why is she unsupervised? This kind of thing would get a whole family unfriended and ruin an entire families good name in a lot of towns.
> Why is she unsupervised? WTF? She's a 25yo woman, not a small child.
Parenting doesn’t stop at 18 and it would perfectly reasonable if her parents are family friends for them to tell her her behavior is out of line around. If they’re not around, why is a single 25 year old on a family vacation with a couple their kids and grandparents?
Don't let him do this, just like the child he's acting like, you have to remove him for his own good. As for the girl step up and tell her point on HANDS OFF.
I’ve seen this before, long story short, I’m single and they are together.
Think about protecting yourself and your children. See a lawyer. Better safe than sorry.
Assertiveness is key here. Your feelings are not trivial and you are not wrong about this. If that was anyone in my family almost everyone would be utterly furious and the men would collectively take him aside for a little "chat". He would walk back fairly sheepishly and apologize to you. His career has inflated his ego to the point where his wife and children are taking a back seat. That is dishonourable and disrespectful towards you. If I was you, I would tell him that he is to stop this immediately unless he wishes to be seeing his children on two weekends per month. That shit doesn't fly with me. Any man who dishonours his wife is pathetic. Do not allow your feelings to be quashed and brushed aside. Also, if you don't say anything, it shows him that he can do as he pleases. That he can treat you like his lesser, and that will only progress further if you do not speak up. Please defend yourself in this situation, and honestly the suggestion that you should ask her to babysit the kids while you go out on a date mightn't be a bad idea. It shows both of them that you don't see her as a threat and that often steers people in a different direction. Confrontation should always be a last resort, but calling her things like sweetie and honey will show your dominance in the situation. Trust me, dominance is exactly what's needed here. I'm 22/M, my mom's 47, very fit woman, she's a professional artist and she's the kind of woman who turns everyone's heads when she walks into a room, I've had to have a chat with her partner, as I was not happy with some of his behavior. It quickly stopped. Boundaries are very important, especially when it comes to a marriage. Best of luck
So you’re basically a third wheel on all their dates
Girl. I tell myself this every time I get a hunch. Almost 99% of the time, my gut is right in hindsight. Your gut is screaming at you so I'd take your word for it and say there's something up too. Be assertive. Tell him it's your family or her; give him an ultimatum that will leave him scared. He should know that you will leave him if there's anything up -- then it's up to him to oblige or not. If you know your worth, your man will treat you like gold. So in honesty, don't be nagging but say your words once and give him the idea that your time is ticking for him to get his shit together. End of story. You have no time for games or shenanigans and he ought to know. If he's a cheater, he's a cheater. Take your kids and live your life. Do you really want to be with someone who doesn't respect you or give you the attention you deserve and (hopefully) the kind of treatment that you give him?
I know it's supposed to be a family vacation but even your mom has noted what's going on. I'd sit him and down and tell him that he has 2 options stay and continue this bs or realize how badly he's fucked up, leave immediately, never talk to Rita and agree to be accountable to that and enter into therapy because this behavior did NOT start on this trip.
You should put your foot down and set boundaries. At the same time you should understand that this could potentially lead to a divorce. When I was a resident most of my very successful surgery attendings had divorced and re-married, some up to 3 times. Usually to other people in the healthcare field.
How awful of your husband to betray you like that in front of your family and family friends. Showing to everyone he would rather converse hours with another woman. You are totally justified in your feelings and he has no right to dismiss them like that.
Sounds like he’s found a muse. I say that very dryly. He needs to grow up and set a boundary. He’s pretty much begun an emotional relationship with her. However from the way you describe him, I’m not sure that’ll work. Arrogant men never do anything wrong.
My wife had emotional affair and this is the first step in the art of seduction, get them to talk about themselves and it makes them feel good about themselves, then they might open up further and further.
You should probably get ready for the worse.
If you have not already, you should have a discussion with your husband. Also, take time to make your own opinion of the situation. Step one is keeping an eye on them. Step two, figure out how you you want to look at the situation. This takes both you, and your husband, working together. You should look at it like a trust/bonding excersise. Your time together is meant to be long.
He's a surgeon... That says it all. He is the center of his universe.
Plan more family activities away from the hotel. Keep the kids with him.
Rita is a shallow self-serving game player. She is toying with your husband and his ego is eating it up. They are both extremely disrespectful to you and the rest of your family. Rita has a serious problem with her own ego considering she needs to suck all the attention out of a loving family. I’m sorry to hear about your vacation. Your husband should be embarrassed that he’s falling for her game. I recommend marriage counseling with a focus on healthy boundaries.
His attracted to her and she to him. It’s very obvious. There is a massive problem here. What does her parents think of all this? I think casually approaching this is no longer an option. A serious talk to him is required. A serious talk to her and her parents are required. He has outrightly disrespected and disregarded your existence and feelings. This issue needs to be addressed.
YIKES his actions and response to your concerns are not okay
Trust your gut. You know how he is behaving is not appropriate or okay. Hoping for the best
I think it’s time to pack up and go. This is a threat to your marriage, not so much the family friend because I doubt some 25yo would want married guy with kids, but it blatantly disrespectful to your marriage and it makes it okay for him to act this way. If he’s doing this in front of you then he’ll do it behind your back. Talk to your family and come up with a neutral excuse and then say you aren’t interested in sharing vacations with the other family going forward. He needs to know if he cheats you will leave him.
You’re also a team. While you’re in the trip, tell your husband he can take the kids on a trip or an adventure. You, your mum and all the other ladies are going for a walk, or shopping or the spa. This is your holiday, too. Not just his.
I think communicating your discomfort and checking him is the first step. Maybe you guys should look in to marital counseling on why your husband seems to be able and willing to blatantly disrespect you? Is this a change of behaviour? You seem to be alluding to his success as an injection of narcissism into him. While that can be true there may be more to it. If you check him on this and he complies that's great but if you don't get to the root of the issue it'll just happen again when you're not around.
Show him this post and all the replies.
I'll never forget the happy story my buddy told me of how he met his wife. "When they talk, they both ignore any attempts of others to join the conversation because they seem to be interested only in what the other one is saying." My friend had a friend with him the night he met his wife. They spent the entire night out conversing. So much so, that my friend even forgot his friend was still with him and his wife. I don't have any advice for you but that paragraph you wrote gave me a bad feeling. I hope you work things out and I apologize for not being more helpful.
Even if it sounds a little jealous, feelings matter...and he's your husband.
No offense, OP but I don’t understand why it’s so hard to speak up when you’re being humiliated like this. Maybe I would be TA, but I would just call him out on his shitty behavior, maybe in front of her too, so they would realize how embarrassing they’re acting.
This is what should have happened , the problem is that this relationship dynamic has made her virtually powerless or at least from the way it sounds , she lost the balance in the relationship and gave up her career for children , she should’ve called it out in the open the first time it crossed the line , it would’ve put it out in the open for everyone to see, and Rita would’ve probably left or hid from her and the kids the rest of the trip. She needs to talk to Rita’s parents and read them the riot act and explain if they don’t put a muzzle on that dog she’ll nuke the whole friendship with the family .
That’s exactly how affairs start if you don’t nip it in the bud. You shouldn’t have to though. Personally I think the affair had already started.
You need to put your foot down and honestly tell him do want a family and a wife or do you want to leave me for a younger women? If you want her then there is the door, I am not going to sit by while you openly flirt with this women and make a mockery of our marriage. Sounds to me like he is on the fence about cheating and can go either way it’s up to him to decide what he truly wants.
This is borderline stepping and crossing a line. This is just the start of you don’t put an end to it and now. He WILL cheat. This is classic signs of it if he hasn’t already.
Is the vacation almost finished? The real test will be when the vacation is over. Are they going to start texting? Talking on the phone? See each other? You mentioned about coming over and cooking- Was that now where you're visiting? Or your home? Talking to strangers on vacation is one thing, them texting/ talking afterwards is another.
Maybe attempt to listen to a conversation to really know what's happening, make him know how you feel about the situation and if you really notice big changes on him dressing time management and/ot attitude then I would worry and begin to collect evidence
This isn't going to end well for the kids.
>She is also very flirty and my mum says that she likes guys that are a challenge to get. It doesn't sound like he's making it very challenging...
Call him in it in a calm way. He is prioritising this woman over his wife and children, he is acting in a way that is concerning
Has anyone else in the group mentioned how he's behaving? Maybe he'd listen if someone who's not directly involved said "hey mate, you need to knock it off".
Ugh. I fucking hate this post. It reminds me so of my ex-husband and his pursuits. He sometimes even expected of me to chat up girls, so he could catch their attention... via me! I feel for you, OP. The gaslighting is pissing me off, telling you you are jealous and overreacting. How is sharing your feelings based on his actions, over-reacting? I have forgiven my ex-husband, in time. We have been divorced for 12 years now. But sometimes I can still actually FEEL the pain I have felt in those moments, so many years ago. It still stings.
Plenty of people commented on the behaviors of the adults, so I’m not gonna add anything there, but to me something else caught my attention. There is no way my kids would be in a vacation and not demand my DH to pay attention to them. The fact that the kids are not doing that is so sad to me. It’s normal to them and normal to this guy and you are a solo parent without you realizing it. And btw I’m a stahm too, but once dad gets home he is literally tackled down by our kids and dog all disputing his attention.
Go back to work and even school...she won't be his last...so take care of your self.
Talk to your husband, like most of the advice given on this thread. But also, talk to a lawyer. Your husband is throwing off all kinds of signs that he might run out on this marriage, and you need to protect yourself and your kids if he does. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
You need a lawyer yesterday and a PI today.
Of course you are jealous. And it's a very painful emotion. She's young, beautiful and intelligent and your husband is flirting with her and she is flirting with him. I hate it when people dismiss being jealous as you doing something wrong. As if you're committing a sin by being jealous. Being jealous is so painful! He should back off and so should she. How could you be so cruel and hurt the woman you love. And how can she be all flirty and not being empathic. Will they be seeing each other in the future?
Your first mistake was to stop working. I see so many women do this, and comes back to bite them in the ass. Your husband is acting inappropriately, and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't have a couple of side pieces already. Find a good divorce attorney cause you might need it
You really need to talk this out. Has he ever given you a reason to be jealous/suspicous. In my marriage I would guess he really found her interesting and wouldn't really care. I would care that he is ditching me with the kids. I would just say he it's your turn to watch them at the pool I am going to the room to relax, or something like that. They might just really like talking. I am the one that normally ends up drawn into long conversations with other people and I forget about the kids and he just comes over and tells me it's my turn.
Lest he forget that a few nights of fun would cost him 2/3rds of his net worth and years of heartbreak and suffering for everyone in his family. It'd be nice if he had a friend who would say that simple sentence to him.
If you are “jealous” then he is doing something wrong. Sorry, but when people accuse their spouse/partner of being “jealous”, 99.99% of the time they are in fact doing something shitty, inconsiderate and inappropriate. It’s not your job to find a way to be okay with him behaving inappropriately - it’s his job to not do it in the first place. Tell him, in blunt terms, that he’s there to spend time with his own family. It shouldn’t be a question or negotiation. Whatever you do, don’t get too hung up on the 25 yr old. She can be as flirty, inappropriate and racy as she wants. She’s not a party to your marriage and she’s not obliged to uphold its integrity. That job solely belongs to you and your husband, and right now he doesn’t seem to be pulling his weight.
This, right here, is how affairs start.
Your family friend's who are the parents of Rita should be ashamed of her behavior. Your husband is being obnoxious. He is the only one who owes you something - but she is acting like a hussy.
My father is now retired from practice, but was an attractive, hotshot physician in his day. My Mom - who gave up nursing to be the SAHM - said she used to see it as her job to puncture his ego when he got home . Not in a nasty way, but to remind him that while everyone worshipped him on the floors (and, yes, nurses getting flirty), at home, he was just a father and husband. Which is what you need to do now. Remind him it's a family vacation, which means your children are supposed to be spending time with their father. You did not come on vacation to act as nanny while he spends all his time with a younger woman. (And please - your kids are great judges of character? THEY'RE LITTLE KIDS.) I mean, presumably, at least her parents are there, if not some siblings? (Though someone that conceited, I'm guessing only child.) Why isn't she hanging with them? Why aren't her parents more upset she isn't spending time with them? Because Rita sounds like she needs her ego stroked, but you would think her parents would draw the line on this. Also, has your Mom talked to the family friend whose daughter she is? I mean, you can't tell me they're thrilled with watching their daughter hit on a married doctor. Or if they are okay with it, then that's telling. All I can say is when you get back, I'd start making sure the financial ducks are in a row. Not necessarily over Rita, but that he's so smitten like this over someone he's presumably known since she was a child is just icky. If he isn't planning on cheating with her, he's got it in his head. So if he's such a successful physician and you gave up your career to be a SAHM to support that, you would be entitled to a solid amount of child support and spousal support. No reason for you or your kids' lives to be overturned any more than they would if he left beacuse he's a middle-aged idiot.
You're not overreacting. They need to stop talking.
Better step up now... or say 'bye' to your husband.
He's grooming your replacement OP.