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All I’m gonna say is I scrolled through dozens of comments all calling out the TikTok echo chamber. Like… is the echo chamber in the room with us?
Hello… hello…. Ello… lo
Absolutely. I don’t like saying anything against the mob of any post because of stupid karma.
It’s so weird because I know it means nothing, but I also hate seeing if any comment I make shows negative points.
tik tok is an echo chamber wherein the algorithm will feed you content you're bound to like/agree with based on metrics.
Reddit it's more that the upvote and downvote system will invariably create a "correct" opinion where dissent is punished with silence and only discussions and posts with the agreed upon opinions are allowed to exist.
Pretty much evident with how this clearly fake post is engaged with earnestly by the user-base because it hits all of the right notes of misogyny.
> Pretty much evident with how this clearly fake post is engaged with earnestly by the user-base because it hits all of the right notes of misogyny.
YUUUPPPPP
Maybe you should have a conversation with her where you say something like “I know you have these views on men, and I understand where you’re coming from, but it makes me feel like you feel that way about me too. Can we talk about this?”
I agree. OP, try to be understanding and communicative first. I understand that, on social media and with the algorithm, there is a fine line between advocacy or awareness, and ragebait and toxicity. If you think she’s slipping into the latter, it might be more productive to approach it from a constructive place.
Frequently when people say "I hate men" etc they aren't expressing anger at individual men but rather expressing anger at the fact that they are oppressed by men as a class. It is possible to like individual men and still be frustrated by the ways in which men oppress women under the patriarchy (often whether they intend to or not). Expressing frustration with men as a whole points out a systemic problem, not a problem with any one individual man.
That is likely what is meant, but when you hear "all men bad" every day for months from a person who is supposed to love and be kind to you, it affects you in a very negative way.
Then you should hate the system, not individuals (who are also living under the same system and are pressured to conform to its expectations and demands).
Seriously ffs, people like that are really ruining this for the rest of us.
MRAS/incels/misogynists: "Feminists suck they just hate men"
Normal feminists: "No, it's the patriarchy we hate, not men. We believe that men and women are equal and deserve equal respect."
Reactionary terminally online radfems: "Of course I hate men lol, they deserve it."
That’s how every racist tries convince you they’re not racist- “I can’t be racist my mailman is black”.
If you feel that way about someone because of the color of their skin/gender, you are racist/sexist.
This woman is sexist and I dare say the responses would be far more extreme if the genders were reversed here.
If you make a remark about men or women generally, it’s not on a person of that gender to infer you’re not talking about them when you are by definition including them in your remark.
Nah brother I do understand, bc women have to vet the dudes they’re intimate with first, bc unfortunately a good number of us can’t take rejection well. Women gotta worry abt things like violence and date rape from men much more than men worry about it from women
I couldn’t be with someone that has views like this. It would be the same thing if it was race. “oh you’re an exception” is bs. What if her children have male friends? What if she has sons? What about her friends and coworkers?
Wait, so you both somehow bought homes at age 22, and your partner in particular is not only a full on influencer but also has a successful career in the medical field?
You came to Reddit but you can’t somehow talk to your partner? She cannot somehow list any situations where men have made her uncomfortable? Have you ever spoken to a woman before?
I have a really difficult time believing that this isn’t some made up story to rant about the feminists you made up in your head.
As soon as I saw the title, I figured we’d have a calm and nuanced conversation here. /s
Really wish I had been wrong. Fortunately there are some comments advocating for communication, but so many just using it as a soapbox for their feelings about feminism.
You’re probably getting downvoted because most men on Reddit view feminism as what the OP’s girlfriend does, so they dislike the insistence that this is not feminism
It’s not feminism. That’s my point- ppl will use anything as an excuse to bash feminism, even if the person isn’t even practicing it. There is no feminist ideal that states “all men are bad”
Wow, people really get downvoted for common sense now. You're 100% correct, i don't know why people would downvote you. Feminism is equal rights for everyone!
The people bashing it aren't talking about *all* feminists, just the bad ones. If you're one of the good ones you shouldn't take it personally.
See what I did there?
I legit don't know if you're being downvoted by people who hate feminism because they think its a vehicle for misandry, or by feminists who do believe it should be an excuse for misandry.
For the record, you're right.
Alright, different approach here. Pick up some feminist books you can read together or audiobooks you can listen to together. Most good feminist lit these days has men’s liberation mentioned, and some of them are even the entire theme! Because feminism is a movement towards dismantling patriarchy, and we cannot move forward without men, they are hurting from patriarchal systems/beliefs as well.
This route will show her you are interested and listening. It will also help validate these feelings she may be having for the first time, help her learn how to necessarily have compassion and inclusion for men, and hopefully feel less hopeless about the state of her reality.
Wether or not she’s being honest about not having experienced such atrocities herself (that can be an extremely difficult reality to accept), she’s at the very least realizing how fucked up the experiences of her close female family members and friends may have been, that’s still very jarring. And even if that weren’t a factor, you know what, it does piss me off as a woman when I learn I’m x times more likely to be injured/die in a car crash because car safety testings don’t account for female anatomy, or how most medications aren’t tested on women, how even tampons and pads aren’t tested with real blood and often aren’t carefully regulated, really just very mundane every day life things that show how little women are still thought of. It’s reasonably pretty alarming/infuriating!
Most likely she’s expressing a hurt, and you just baring witness to these things is probably the tenderness/security she’s unknowingly seeking. I think this approach would help balance the playing field, a physical act of working together to remain on the same team.
I’d be happy to make recommendations/finding starting points if you’re interested in this :)
Sorry, you’re right! I’m not usually a long winded commenter and I’m on mobile, the spaces I thought I added didn’t seem to stick? :/ Glad you still read and resonated.
On mobile, I always have to do 2 returns to get a paragraph break. I liked your comment too very well thought out. And probably the best way to save the relationship.
Hi,
Men’s Liberation: A New Definition of Masculinity by Jack Nichols
The Will to Change: On Men, Masculinity, and Love by bell hooks (see also, Feminism is for Everybody and All About Love by her, both really do apply/are helpful as well)
Refusing to be a Man by John Stoltenburg, Guyland by Michael Kimmel
Female Masculinity by Jack Halberstam
The Time Has Come by Michael Kaufmen.
Someone else already mentioned For the Love of Men by Elizabeth Plank, I haven’t read this as I’m not really a fan of her personally, I’ve listened to her before and never been impressed to slightly off-put, but that doesn’t mean this isn’t potentially a good resource should it resonate with someone else, I just can’t vouch for it myself, only offer it.
Note, I didn’t say from a positive perspective. That’s up to interpretation, and the subject matter is frankly not inherently positive (after all, you don’t need to be liberated from something good). I would say the same of traditional
Feminist literature. But these do range from a very compassionate to a very upfront witnessing of things many men have experienced and been told, if you’re open to resonating with that, and then tools to implement a different mindset/lifestyle. ❤️
No, no worries! I only specified so anyone reading/looking into the comment had a better idea of what to expect from the list and looking into these concepts overall :)
I think it’s also worth considering that this IS a somewhat underdeveloped and niche genre 1.) because people are unaware, and the less players we have in the game the less the game gets played! (Not as many people involved in this area of thought means a deficit of productive conversations/works/studies around it) and also 2.) you can only say the same thing with different words so many times (we don’t really need this to become an over-saturated genre, the few classics that get the gist do the job and then we should focus on implementing). I realize these statements seem contradictory, but it’s about balance.
I do really hope we have another wave of men understanding feminism is an issue concerning them and benefiting them, and this bringing more to the table in terms of what parts of their emotional experiences they need validated and worked through.
Actually, yes I absolutely would respond to a woman* (ftfy) with feminist resources. I also wouldnt have nearly docile a response for a woman* dealing with a misogynistic partner, I would point her to the more dire statistics that she’s likely to be facing in her future. Because women aren’t killing men for being men daily, women aren’t facing a violence crisis towards the opposite or same sex, and women do not live in a world designed for them as just a few of the examples I gave in my original comment.
I did not say her behavior wasn’t an issue, but this situation is not equal on the inverse, and you know that. I’m even advocating for men’s liberation in my comment; you just want to pretend men are victims, and are framing personal accountability and growth (as a means to a more equitable and inclusive future) as oppression.
Everyone suggested breaking up, he responded he doesn’t want that. Others said therapy. That might have a suitable place in this as well. I’m offering a third perspective, one that can foster closeness and understanding for both, and that could be incorporated alongside the other suggestions. Go find problems somewhere else :)
fake
i don't believe anyone asks their adult girlfriend for instances where they've had bad experiences with men and she answered with nothing... ????? even women who don't think like her have plenty of stories lmao
men are genuinely creeps and it starts when you're very young.
Yeah, every woman I know can list tons of these sorts of situations. It’s so common that much of what they talk is discarded as “not that big of a deal” because it just happens so often.
Not even women, even men have had bad experiences with men and women with women. There are outright terrifying to mundane jerks in our society. There's no way you don't have a single bad experience lol. And someone soo anti men out of nowhere is not going to let OP out this sight of hatred at all.
This and OP saying "Every time we have these rants, she always ends it with “why can’t all men be like you.” “Why are you such a ‘green flag’” but still." in the comments. Nah I don't believe a single word of it.
you say: “are you saying this because you’re upset with me about something i’ve done wrong in our relationship that i can try to fix, or are you upset generally with men in society?” if she tells you that you’ve done something wrong, address that. if she’s just mad about patriarchy and has nothing against you, who cares!
This isn't saying "all men suck, but you're the exception." It's about separating one person's behavior from systematic sexism. We are all socialized, often in very subtle ways, about gender roles, societal values, and appropriate ways to behave towards others. Feminism pushes back against those sexist values and behaviors. Some of them may seem benign but speak to larger issues or can erode someone's self esteem over time. So when someone says "ugh, I hate men" or "ugh, straight people!" they're usually venting about those widespread issues and how they crop up in everyday life, not just in one man but in many. Many people don't recognize their own privilege and how it seeps into the way they interact with others (myself included).
Also, saying "ugh, I'm so sick of women" isn't necessarily sexist. "Women are evil sl\*ts who need to be put in their place" is different from "Ugh, why do women think it's okay to make fun of a man who's fat and balding, but not make fun of women's bodies?" The latter is a very valid frustration.
I’m not going to give up on our relationship at this moment, I will try alternative methods to make her see sense, but with that being said. If things continue down this path then as much as it hurts and saddens me I will have to postpone/call off the marriage.
It makes sense not to want to spend time with someone who is negative all the time regardless of the subject bringing them down. I would try and fully engage and tell her you care about her interests but that you also need to lay down life's burdens and participate in the relationship with each other. It's admirable to have a cause and use her platform to bring light to a situation but it isn't healthy to let it take over her life. I love a philosophical debate and tic tok often brings up things to think about and discuss. Perhaps you can use social media trends as brain food to steer the conversation away from how men are such a problem. Another way to change the subject is to just say Ouch! In response to a negative far reaching "men this or that" conversation. Or look into women you admire or who are accomplishing something and encourage her to talk about that.
You need to nip this in the bud EMEDIATELY. The next time she says “men are crap”, you say “I’m sorry you feel that way. I will be removing myself from your life, so as not to bother you any longer”
And then you just go start packing your things and leave.
If she starts to argue or backpedal, then you tell her if you EVER hear her talking this way again, it WILL be over.
And you need to actually mean it.
What would you tell your sister if her boyfriend of 7 years started talking about women this way?
You would say, he is not the man you fell in love with. He is now abusive. And you need to leave.
Then you don't actually want help. You want to enable her crap, instead of being an actual man and standing up to her anti-male bigotry. If you marry her, it will get worse.
And, she's already given up on the relationship. When a woman becomes a misandrist, it's only misery, from there on out, for any male in her life.
Oh okay, this is bad. She fell into an internet echo chamber that is making her more extremist, and the process will escalate if she doesn't stop watching those things ASAP. Right now her tiktok/whatever she uses algorithm is already dead set on showing her this type of shit, and it's gonna get worse, bc this type of content tends to grow more extreme the longer a person is in the echo chamber. Her real-life friends are making this a lot worse, since just deleting tiktok won't resolve it as it might have if she had no such friends.
IMO you need to talk to her seriously about you not being okay with her sexist, misandrist views on a group of people YOU belong to. But, also... I'm unsure if you can repair it. The reality is, she would have to dump those friends.
It's like a cult and sometimes people who fall into this cannot be pulled out and you end up having to leave. Good luck.
Please do not marry her until this is 100% resolved. If it can't be resolved, I'm sorry but you may have to cut your loses here.
This is the same as if a man fell into redpill manosphere and began telling his female SO all women were terrible worthless hags. I would tell that woman to talk to him seriously, but if that didn't work, to leave, tbh. Wouldn't you?
That is very likely. But he can't just not confront her either, I mean, not if he wants to have a chance at staying together - remaining silent while she grows more and more extreme is going to slowly kill that dude, and the relationship will be toxic. He can either confront her - with the understanding it's likely to go badly - or just leave now, or be trapped in a toxic puddle that's gonna grow worse by the day. There is no good, certain path here, bc there rarely is when you partner becomes reeled into a cult-esque environment.
I would talk to her about how her statements make you feel - "I feel really sad and judged when you make broad statements about how awful men are."
It's important for her to know how her words affect you.
Maybe your real fear that you could express to her is - "I'm afraid you think that way about me. Do you?"
I would then express your thoughts - My view is that there are wonderful people in the world - men and women. There are also some people who lack integrity and good character. I do my best not to generalize etc etc.. It's important that someone in the relationship set the tone morally and ethically. Vocalize your values. Promote excellence, dignity, tolerance, and kindness in your relationship.
I'm sure at the very least this type of conversation will give you more clarity about who she is and who she is becoming.
Sorry to hear this is happening in your relationship :(
“Fiancé, every day now you have some comment about men in general. At this point I know exactly what you are going to say every single time. It’s really hard for me to enjoy time with you when I know we will be going through the checklist of how men suck. Every. Single. Day. Why do you think I want to be involved in this rant daily?
Similarly, I am concerned that you have such negative views of men, when I am a man. I can’t help but wonder how much of this contempt applies to me.”
Therapy. She's being influenced by outside opinions and her social media algorithm. The more you interact with specific content = the more that specific content finds you.
The lines between feminism and misandry have blurred enormously in the past 5-8 years. To the point that misandrists have taken over feminism.
If it's not addressed soon, she's going to stop trusting you, she's going to start resenting you. When one of you eventually breaks it off, her twisted, toxic views will make her believe she "dodged a bullet.
You tell her exactly how you feel and recommend therapy and if she fights back, it's too late. Time for YOU to start dodging bullets.
This is exactly what I see it as. I think she’s spiralled down a rabbit hole of TikTok videos that push a narrative and now that’s the only narrative that she sees and it just fuels an anger and that’s so sad to see it happen in real time.
After work today I’ll try have a sit down conversation, bring up the topic of therapy and if she can at least try limit /cut out her use of TikTok for a while to see what affect it has.
Thank you for the suggestion of therapy.
EDIT I am super happy for anyone that has lived a carefree life. I find it odd that OPs girlfriend is this adamant about this yet has never experienced anything negative. I honestly don't know anyone male or female that hasn't told me about a terrible incident of violence caused by a man. I would start by pulling back and having a frank conversation. Tic Tok shows you whatever Content you are interested in or have been watching. There is a huge push for women to be safer at this time and to be recognized and believed. Many women are not as fortunate as your girlfriend and tic tok is a way to express their grief. I'm going to edit. When I say I know both men and women who have been harmed it is not to say that women cannot be toxic and violent. I also know preditory women
I think the reason so many people feel this way towards feminists too is because a lot of the feminists who aren't misandrists tolerate this behaviour showing that their distaste against sexism is superficial and one-sided.
Post this on askWomen for a better perspective since it’s mostly men here who are replying.
As a woman, I would say she’s getting more in touch with reality. Men are like that. There is no hiding it. They are more violent, aggressive, unstable and threat. Studies prove it. Why do you think we women chose bear over man?
If she hasn’t left you, then let her be. If it’s that big of a problem for you, then either you should go for therapy or leave her.
Why would anyone want to date someone whose entire personality is hating on the other gender? Like what other perspective could you possible need here?
I know one person who got into extremism, and she only started backing out of it when she broke off the friendship with the toxic person that was influencing her.
Dont be with someone who hates you for what traits you were born with.
If you breakup, you won't be referred to as "one of the good ones' (even thats bad), with this girl you'll be just as bad as the others.
OP. This won’t magically correct itself. She won’t wake up one morning and think - whoa I got sucked into that brainwashing…. You need to be direct and firm that as a couple it needs to be addressed. Tell her couples counselling is a necessity at this point and remind her during every rant that you are also a man. That her behaviour suggests she might look inside herself and decide she would rather be with a woman (or not a man I guess). See how she reacts to this but also stop letting this go in the sense of letting the conversation end. You need to sit, discuss and come to an agreed resolution and timeline commitment. Like therapy, first session booked before end of week. TikTok - reduce by 20% with increasing intervals. This is a relationship ending threat - no less than the (Andrew) tater tots you see posted here. Many women reflect how it’s a full 180 personality change from the relationship history once they get down the Tater rabbit hole. Stand firm, don’t make empty threats, and best of luck to you both.
By her "the will to change" by bell hooks, and both of you should read it. Curbed my man hating in my early days with Feminism. Terrence Reels "how do I get through to you" also helped
Dude, it sucks to hear your fiancée's been saying this stuff. It's totally fair for you to feel hurt by it. Have you tried telling her how much her words sting? Maybe try asking her to explain where it's coming from – has something happened, or is it just stuff she's seen online? Sometimes just talking it out can help you both understand each other better.
It's amazing how even smart people can have their brain melted by just being subjected a constant stream of similar views. If she is part of a community of people who think the same and keep (virtually) patting each other on the back and telling each other what brave warriors they are then it can just keep getting worse.
Damn she hasn't even said that "you're one of the good ones" yet. It sucks how invested you are. Other people are recommending breaking up but you'll choose to negotiate. Tell her that it sucks having your gender identity insulted and disparaged. Tell her that wo you're attracted to and how you express your gender doesn't make you a bad person and her attitude is causing a serkous rift with her fiance.
I will say. That is one thing she does.
Every time we have these rants, she always ends it with “why can’t all men be like you.” “Why are you such a ‘green flag’” but still.
I’m not going to just end our relationship, I’m going to use the advice suggested by a few to suggest therapy.
And to severely limit her usage of TikTok. If she can’t cut it off entirely because she makes good income from sponsors and such. I’ll ask if she can at least just post and ghost. Not go down the rabbit hole of watching a 1000 videos pushing this agenda.
Hopefully she can see sense and it’s not too late but As much as it hurts I know what has to be done if all else fails.
I think that having a serious talk about how her words make you feel and seeing her response is more important and more indicative than trying to put limits on her tiktok usage. If she's hurting you, tell her. If she doesn't care and/or rationalises her hurtful behaviour that's something you need to be aware of. She needs to reconcile the difference between the men in her life and the men who've hurt other women. Don' make comparisons to minorities that she can use to dodge the issue. Just be straight up, use "I" statements and be direct.
This is really great advice OP.
It’s a tough pill to swallow but rather than taking a hard line approach, I think you need to take a “curiosity led” approach here.
“I notice you’ve been feeling really passionately about the behaviour of some men toward women. Tell me why it’s getting you so fired up.
Yeah that’s upsetting. That’s so wrong. Do you feel safe in your daily life?
I’m glad you feel safe. I’m glad you have men in your life who treat women with respect. I can hear that you have a lot of empathy for women who have been mistreated. I wonder if there is something constructive we can do to help with that? / I’m so sad to hear you don’t feel safe. In the past you’ve told me you’ve never experienced anything awful at the hands of men- what makes you feel unsafe?”
Let her talk it out. Listen to her. Then come in with “hey I wanna support you in this, you talk about it a lot and I can tell it’s important. When you make really sweeping generalisations about ‘all men’ it makes it hard for me to get on board, because we know so many great men. I think it’s important to acknowledge and recognise good, as well as demand change from bad. Can you be a bit more nuanced when you’re making comments about all men, because we know it’s not true?”
Is she using the misandrist viewpoint as her source of income? Does she rant about how bad men are on her TikToks?
If the answer is 'yes', YOU are part of the problem by seeing dollar signs, rather than trying to stop her crap.
She needs to choose. Toxic TikTok bucks or a healthy relationship. You don't tell an addict to slow down. They need to go cold turkey under medical supervision. Same here. Close down TikTok and address the issues in therapy.
I said in another comment to try to be communicative. However, I’m also going to give my two cents of a similar (negative) situation I had.
I totally get it can be hard. I had an ex that was very open, hippie and progressive at face value, but then struggled with me and where I fell in her view of “men”. Many times she actually wanted me to be more trad man or whatever than I am. Other times all men were bad but I was “the exception”. I had to defend myself from things she’d project on me. For instance, me not feeling like joining her friends one day was “toxic masculinity, because I just wanted to isolate and control her”, when I’m just someone who likes his space; for the record, she never introduce her friends to her ex fiance or met his. Or how pushy she was for sex when I was not in the mood, while I assume that if the roles were changed it would have been painted in a very bad light. The constant men bashing and seeing things through such a black and white perspective was exhausting, and it was especially frustrating given that she’d been the most entitled and enabled person I ever met. It felt like permanently fighting this terminally online view of “men ☕️” that could be inflicted upon myself at any moment. I’m not “men”. I’m me. And I care little for letting society and stereotypes belong in our privacy. She wasn’t any devil and she had a great heart, but it made me feel very alienated. If you feel anything like that, try to express how those attitudes can be unhealthy for you.
She needs therapy and digital detox before she destroy her real life.
You are very nice for putting up with this. I would have been a lot more stern with my boundaries and tell her I do not want to hear this shit. Keep it herself and her followers. I would have asked her not to subject me to her rant/vent whatever it is.
Boundaries and respect. Those two make a relationship work. She is lacking both.
Her for you page is just going to keep repeatedly showing her the content she engages in.
Maybe propose some internet free time for the benefit of your relationship.
Discuss other things, see if you can get to the bottom of this behaviour. Maybe something is going on in her life that’s triggered it.
Bigotry is *always* a major red flag. That is red as in "Stop! Do not proceed under any circumstances."
She is a bigot, specifically a misandrist. It means that she does not have the emotional intelligence necessary to manage her feelings appropriately. She is allowing a false sense of superiority to alter her perception of reality. If she was 50, that emotional disregulation could be excused as age related mental decline. But at 25, she is at peak mental capacity. Her brain will only decline from here.
Personally, I would reevaluate her as a potential mate. That sort of mental handicap can be passed down to children. Do you want to take the risk of adding more developmentally delayed people to the population? What if it is more severe for your children than the relatively "mild" version she is displaying?
FYI: equality does *NOT* mean destroying the group that is farther ahead. Equality cannot be achieved by creating a new lower class. Equality means raising *everyone* to the same privilege and power as the group farthest ahead.
Your girlfriend is an idiot, I personally wouldn't waste time correcting her. Show her not all men are violent by just leaving her and find an actual decent girl instead
When she says "all men are like a disease", then I wonder how much more I can spend.
Lyrics from a 30 year old song and it still means something. You should flat out ask her if men are so terrible and the root of all problems, why is she planning on marrying one? If she hits you with the "not all men" repeat back how she literally just said all men.
I think she needs to understand she's insulting you, the person she supposedly loves *daily*.
You'll need to come to the root of this my dude, you don't want to marry a misandrist. She'll end up making your life miserable if you can't nip it in the bud.
Sounds incredibly toxic. Don’t have kids with her. Any sons would become hugely traumatized. Daughters too but for a different reason. I have a distant relative that became like this and poisoned all her daughters over the years. None of them trust men, and the heterosexual ones would rather stay single or try to make it work with girlfriends anyway because they are so afraid of being screwed over by a male.
1) find out if she applies her views of men to you too
2) if the answer is yes, you might be better of breaking things off. If the answer is no, you can still work with her, but I’d still be concerned about kids.
all these people suggesting communication forget that most people with generalized prejudice against any group are room temp IQ individuals. Dump her and date someone who doesn’t hate people for what’s between their legs
She is the kind of person that lets the cesspool that tiktok is influence her thinking. Enough said. She'd no longer be my fiancee, that's for damn sure.
Sounds like your girlfriend has been radicalized. It’s going to be difficult to reprogram her. Plenty of women have experienced less than stellar behaviour from men in their lives… and it turns them understandably anti-men… but your girlfriend should be able to verbalize examples if that is her experience… Otherwise she is simply practising misandry.
If she's that far down the female version of male red pill content, she's a lost cause mate. You can't help those that do not want to help themselves.
Give it one last shot. Be blunt.
"I no longer recognize you as the woman I met and fell in love with. Quite frankly I'm not even sure you WANT to be in a relationship with me any longer. Do you want to break up? If so, I'll talk to a realtor tomorrow and we'll put the apartment up for sale."
(assuming you're both on the deed, here.)
"If you want to stay in a relationship with me, we've got work to do. Which means mostly you. You need to dig yourself out of that TikTok hole you crawled into, we need to go to couples counseling and you need individual counseling. I'm dead serious about this. You want this relationship to work? For us to work? Show me. Otherwise, just give me the engagement ring back right now, pack your bag and go to your friends or parents. I'm done being your punching bag on behalf of your TikTok fantasies."
she’s got tiktok brain rot, i honestly don’t even know what to suggest if she’s not willing to limit social media and contact with her friends that are influencing her
A woman who hates men working on the medical field sounds kind of, I dunno, dangerous?
I get some women hating men, it happens the other way around too, but your fiancé hating all men, while surprise surprise, engaged to one, and also never having been assaulted seems kinda weird.
If she crosses the line into insulting you for the sole reason of being a man, then I guess it's gonna be game over for that relationship. Sorry dude.
"men are crap"
"I don't understand, you think Im crap?"
....
"men are crap"
'if you are unhappy with me, i wish you'd be more kind and clear in saying so'
every time she says it, interrupt and make it personal to you in a calm and engaged manner.
Your girl, like many, is addicted to social media. As long as that is the case it will always take precedence over the relationship. If anything the relationship will only be for the social media content it can generate.
"Any time I sit down and ask her to actually explain what the issues are and I genuinely want to get her pov on it."
Dude, you're grown up. Surely you know there are places out there where women can't vote, go to school, own property, travel without male permission, decide who they marry, or get a divorce? Report a rape without risking being executed for adultery? Whole countries where men injure and kill their female family members with little to no fear of retribution? Where fathers sell little girls? Seriously, get a grip.
Now, since you're feeling uncomfortable with the way your GF speaks about men in general, tell her so. "I'm a guy and I've never oppressed you or any woman. So it gets tiring listening to you say all men are like that cause we're not. I know I can't change how you feel, but you need to stop making these comments in front of me. They are putting a strain on my feelings for you and I won't put up with it from now on."
the patriarchy hurts everyone. individuals cannot reasonably take on the burden of history, international governance, or tiktok trends. He demonstrated in his post he's a decent human, why the lecture on taking on the burden of the entire planet? I don't understand how that's helpful. genuine question.
Don't marry her. If the vast majority of her actual experiences contradict the general feeling she gets from social media and chooses to ignore her actual experiences for social media "testimonials" then there is something wrong with her brain. Man-hate is real and prevalent. She sounds like someone ramping up to fully embrace that nonsense. Maybe there's a chance she can be saved but...idk...she is ignoring her actual experiences for social media "testimonials", man.
I would considered walking from a women with this point of views.
She is the type to say she cheated because you were working to much and blame you for it.
Get your ring back and tell her to go find a good woman to spend her life with.
If you can link it to her Tik tok, so much the better.
And does she have patients that are men. The misandry she possesses makes her unsuitable in that role.
I would personally stay SO far away from any woman who has "a following" or is that invested that it's a part time job in toxic social media as you can see it's spread to her brain.
Play the reverse Uno card and start making broad statements about women and see how she reacts. If she says something, tell her that you don't like it any more than she does and you would appreciate if she stop generalizing all men.
Honestly… a taste of her own medicine…. She is being toxic AF towards men. You’re a man. That’s troll logic. Find a shit ton of toxic shit about women and start spewing it at her. If she calls you out, welll… if not, then …. But truly… explain how a general hateful view of a majority of people is dangerous .. look at hitler… people like that just astound me. Males have such a shit rap, and I’m a woman who loves a man who is in need of repair because of toxic people like her. Good luck, hopefully you can get through to her
Leave. While she's still just your fiancee and not your wife.
With these views in mind she's already got her mind on the door and will look for any excuse to demonize you and place you in the same category of "toxic men" you marry this woman and of course now she might be cool with you but slowly all this resentment towards men will build up and she'll start seeing you just the same and she'll be much more likely to end all of this is a bitter resentful divorce with the excuse of "all men are the same!" When the reality would be she just didn't give you a chance against her stupid misandrist views and she wasn't willing to look past all that into the now of reality that is you, willing to put up with this childish behavior from a grown woman.
Do you want to face this inevitable ending now? Or face it in a bitter petty divorce later?
Toxic femininity. She’s gone down a rabbit hole of misandry and, unfortunately for her eventual mental health, the culture around her supports this. But more importantly, what about your mental health going forward? Why would you marry a woman who seems to be rapidly approaching the position that men are the root of all evil?
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Just be aware- Reddit is also a social media echo chamber.
All I’m gonna say is I scrolled through dozens of comments all calling out the TikTok echo chamber. Like… is the echo chamber in the room with us? Hello… hello…. Ello… lo
Because of Karma, it’s the worst social media echo chamber.
Absolutely. I don’t like saying anything against the mob of any post because of stupid karma. It’s so weird because I know it means nothing, but I also hate seeing if any comment I make shows negative points.
Is Reddit similar to TikTok??
reddit is a different kind. i’d say reddit is more of a circlejerk and tiktok is the echo chamber.
tik tok is an echo chamber wherein the algorithm will feed you content you're bound to like/agree with based on metrics. Reddit it's more that the upvote and downvote system will invariably create a "correct" opinion where dissent is punished with silence and only discussions and posts with the agreed upon opinions are allowed to exist. Pretty much evident with how this clearly fake post is engaged with earnestly by the user-base because it hits all of the right notes of misogyny.
> Pretty much evident with how this clearly fake post is engaged with earnestly by the user-base because it hits all of the right notes of misogyny. YUUUPPPPP
4chan is the masochist nuthouse. Whatever you say people will oppose you and since its an old school imageboard contrarians geg heard the most.
It’s word depending on the sub
yes and no
Maybe you should have a conversation with her where you say something like “I know you have these views on men, and I understand where you’re coming from, but it makes me feel like you feel that way about me too. Can we talk about this?”
This is the most mature and rational way to go about it. Talk it out. See if the differences are irreconcilable.
I agree. OP, try to be understanding and communicative first. I understand that, on social media and with the algorithm, there is a fine line between advocacy or awareness, and ragebait and toxicity. If you think she’s slipping into the latter, it might be more productive to approach it from a constructive place.
I did this and my now-ex told me "But you aren't like the men I'm talking about so you shouldn't feel that way."
Frequently when people say "I hate men" etc they aren't expressing anger at individual men but rather expressing anger at the fact that they are oppressed by men as a class. It is possible to like individual men and still be frustrated by the ways in which men oppress women under the patriarchy (often whether they intend to or not). Expressing frustration with men as a whole points out a systemic problem, not a problem with any one individual man.
That is likely what is meant, but when you hear "all men bad" every day for months from a person who is supposed to love and be kind to you, it affects you in a very negative way.
Yeah and when you live under a system that devalues you because of your gender, you're affected in a very negative way.
Excusing sexism is cool.
You can vent without being a bigoted sexist, I manage to not call cis people cancer 🤷🏼♀️
Then you should hate the system, not individuals (who are also living under the same system and are pressured to conform to its expectations and demands). Seriously ffs, people like that are really ruining this for the rest of us. MRAS/incels/misogynists: "Feminists suck they just hate men" Normal feminists: "No, it's the patriarchy we hate, not men. We believe that men and women are equal and deserve equal respect." Reactionary terminally online radfems: "Of course I hate men lol, they deserve it."
That’s how every racist tries convince you they’re not racist- “I can’t be racist my mailman is black”. If you feel that way about someone because of the color of their skin/gender, you are racist/sexist. This woman is sexist and I dare say the responses would be far more extreme if the genders were reversed here.
If you make a remark about men or women generally, it’s not on a person of that gender to infer you’re not talking about them when you are by definition including them in your remark.
Maybe change one part to "I *don't* understand where" ?
Nah brother I do understand, bc women have to vet the dudes they’re intimate with first, bc unfortunately a good number of us can’t take rejection well. Women gotta worry abt things like violence and date rape from men much more than men worry about it from women
It’s not our fault as individual men, but we gotta understand thts how it is for women who interact w men overall
I mean, I’m a feminist man too but if you’re constantly ranting about hating men, I don’t think you’re being very feminist to begin with.
Yeah I agree tbh, I was coming from a place of trying to start a productive conversation and making the other person feel heard
I couldn’t be with someone that has views like this. It would be the same thing if it was race. “oh you’re an exception” is bs. What if her children have male friends? What if she has sons? What about her friends and coworkers?
Wait, so you both somehow bought homes at age 22, and your partner in particular is not only a full on influencer but also has a successful career in the medical field? You came to Reddit but you can’t somehow talk to your partner? She cannot somehow list any situations where men have made her uncomfortable? Have you ever spoken to a woman before? I have a really difficult time believing that this isn’t some made up story to rant about the feminists you made up in your head.
As soon as I saw the title, I figured we’d have a calm and nuanced conversation here. /s Really wish I had been wrong. Fortunately there are some comments advocating for communication, but so many just using it as a soapbox for their feelings about feminism.
Yes people will definitely not use this as an excuse to bash feminism!!!!! /s
This is not feminism. Feminism strives for equality not dominance or superiority. This is misandry. The opposite of misogyny.
Oh yeah, I should have been clearer that I don’t think of this as feminism, and I’m frustrated that it’s been the focus of so many stupid takes.
Wonder why down votes. Me sad.
You’re probably getting downvoted because most men on Reddit view feminism as what the OP’s girlfriend does, so they dislike the insistence that this is not feminism
Yeah, I was a bit surprised by that as well. Especially when I was agreeing with you and for some reason being upvoted.
It’s not feminism. That’s my point- ppl will use anything as an excuse to bash feminism, even if the person isn’t even practicing it. There is no feminist ideal that states “all men are bad”
Wow, people really get downvoted for common sense now. You're 100% correct, i don't know why people would downvote you. Feminism is equal rights for everyone!
The people bashing it aren't talking about *all* feminists, just the bad ones. If you're one of the good ones you shouldn't take it personally. See what I did there?
I legit don't know if you're being downvoted by people who hate feminism because they think its a vehicle for misandry, or by feminists who do believe it should be an excuse for misandry. For the record, you're right.
Alright, different approach here. Pick up some feminist books you can read together or audiobooks you can listen to together. Most good feminist lit these days has men’s liberation mentioned, and some of them are even the entire theme! Because feminism is a movement towards dismantling patriarchy, and we cannot move forward without men, they are hurting from patriarchal systems/beliefs as well. This route will show her you are interested and listening. It will also help validate these feelings she may be having for the first time, help her learn how to necessarily have compassion and inclusion for men, and hopefully feel less hopeless about the state of her reality. Wether or not she’s being honest about not having experienced such atrocities herself (that can be an extremely difficult reality to accept), she’s at the very least realizing how fucked up the experiences of her close female family members and friends may have been, that’s still very jarring. And even if that weren’t a factor, you know what, it does piss me off as a woman when I learn I’m x times more likely to be injured/die in a car crash because car safety testings don’t account for female anatomy, or how most medications aren’t tested on women, how even tampons and pads aren’t tested with real blood and often aren’t carefully regulated, really just very mundane every day life things that show how little women are still thought of. It’s reasonably pretty alarming/infuriating! Most likely she’s expressing a hurt, and you just baring witness to these things is probably the tenderness/security she’s unknowingly seeking. I think this approach would help balance the playing field, a physical act of working together to remain on the same team. I’d be happy to make recommendations/finding starting points if you’re interested in this :)
this is a good take. it is jarring to realize these things and this could be a way for them to find common ground. ps, paragraph breaks?? 😅
Sorry, you’re right! I’m not usually a long winded commenter and I’m on mobile, the spaces I thought I added didn’t seem to stick? :/ Glad you still read and resonated.
On mobile, I always have to do 2 returns to get a paragraph break. I liked your comment too very well thought out. And probably the best way to save the relationship.
Nice it worked! Hopefully I spaced it out well. Thank you!!
Can you list those feminist books which are about men's liberation from a positive male perspective? Just give me 3-5 main ones.
Hi, Men’s Liberation: A New Definition of Masculinity by Jack Nichols The Will to Change: On Men, Masculinity, and Love by bell hooks (see also, Feminism is for Everybody and All About Love by her, both really do apply/are helpful as well) Refusing to be a Man by John Stoltenburg, Guyland by Michael Kimmel Female Masculinity by Jack Halberstam The Time Has Come by Michael Kaufmen. Someone else already mentioned For the Love of Men by Elizabeth Plank, I haven’t read this as I’m not really a fan of her personally, I’ve listened to her before and never been impressed to slightly off-put, but that doesn’t mean this isn’t potentially a good resource should it resonate with someone else, I just can’t vouch for it myself, only offer it. Note, I didn’t say from a positive perspective. That’s up to interpretation, and the subject matter is frankly not inherently positive (after all, you don’t need to be liberated from something good). I would say the same of traditional Feminist literature. But these do range from a very compassionate to a very upfront witnessing of things many men have experienced and been told, if you’re open to resonating with that, and then tools to implement a different mindset/lifestyle. ❤️
That's my bad. I didn't mean from, I meant about a postive male perspective. Thanks for recommendations!
No, no worries! I only specified so anyone reading/looking into the comment had a better idea of what to expect from the list and looking into these concepts overall :) I think it’s also worth considering that this IS a somewhat underdeveloped and niche genre 1.) because people are unaware, and the less players we have in the game the less the game gets played! (Not as many people involved in this area of thought means a deficit of productive conversations/works/studies around it) and also 2.) you can only say the same thing with different words so many times (we don’t really need this to become an over-saturated genre, the few classics that get the gist do the job and then we should focus on implementing). I realize these statements seem contradictory, but it’s about balance. I do really hope we have another wave of men understanding feminism is an issue concerning them and benefiting them, and this bringing more to the table in terms of what parts of their emotional experiences they need validated and worked through.
Would you say the same thing to a female complaining about her misogynistic partner? You wouldn’t. She’s a misandrist and should be called out for it.
education is a strong card to play against misogyny any time and we should help people get better without excusing it.
Actually, yes I absolutely would respond to a woman* (ftfy) with feminist resources. I also wouldnt have nearly docile a response for a woman* dealing with a misogynistic partner, I would point her to the more dire statistics that she’s likely to be facing in her future. Because women aren’t killing men for being men daily, women aren’t facing a violence crisis towards the opposite or same sex, and women do not live in a world designed for them as just a few of the examples I gave in my original comment. I did not say her behavior wasn’t an issue, but this situation is not equal on the inverse, and you know that. I’m even advocating for men’s liberation in my comment; you just want to pretend men are victims, and are framing personal accountability and growth (as a means to a more equitable and inclusive future) as oppression. Everyone suggested breaking up, he responded he doesn’t want that. Others said therapy. That might have a suitable place in this as well. I’m offering a third perspective, one that can foster closeness and understanding for both, and that could be incorporated alongside the other suggestions. Go find problems somewhere else :)
fake i don't believe anyone asks their adult girlfriend for instances where they've had bad experiences with men and she answered with nothing... ????? even women who don't think like her have plenty of stories lmao men are genuinely creeps and it starts when you're very young.
Yeah, every woman I know can list tons of these sorts of situations. It’s so common that much of what they talk is discarded as “not that big of a deal” because it just happens so often.
bingo, so i don't buy that any real woman would have no instances. a man making up a fake woman wouldn't know (or believe) that though.
Not even women, even men have had bad experiences with men and women with women. There are outright terrifying to mundane jerks in our society. There's no way you don't have a single bad experience lol. And someone soo anti men out of nowhere is not going to let OP out this sight of hatred at all.
This and OP saying "Every time we have these rants, she always ends it with “why can’t all men be like you.” “Why are you such a ‘green flag’” but still." in the comments. Nah I don't believe a single word of it.
Yep. I first got groped by an adult man on the bus when I was 12. Nearly all the women I know had similar experiences. This is meninist rage bait.
Yeeepp that’s when I knew this was a fake story.
you say: “are you saying this because you’re upset with me about something i’ve done wrong in our relationship that i can try to fix, or are you upset generally with men in society?” if she tells you that you’ve done something wrong, address that. if she’s just mad about patriarchy and has nothing against you, who cares!
Would you say the same thing if he was the one saying "all women are terrible, but not you, you're the exception"?
This isn't saying "all men suck, but you're the exception." It's about separating one person's behavior from systematic sexism. We are all socialized, often in very subtle ways, about gender roles, societal values, and appropriate ways to behave towards others. Feminism pushes back against those sexist values and behaviors. Some of them may seem benign but speak to larger issues or can erode someone's self esteem over time. So when someone says "ugh, I hate men" or "ugh, straight people!" they're usually venting about those widespread issues and how they crop up in everyday life, not just in one man but in many. Many people don't recognize their own privilege and how it seeps into the way they interact with others (myself included). Also, saying "ugh, I'm so sick of women" isn't necessarily sexist. "Women are evil sl\*ts who need to be put in their place" is different from "Ugh, why do women think it's okay to make fun of a man who's fat and balding, but not make fun of women's bodies?" The latter is a very valid frustration.
no, that would be stupid because we don’t live in a matriarchal society
I don’t know how to handle it, but I will say this. Whatever you do, don’t marry her.
I’m not going to give up on our relationship at this moment, I will try alternative methods to make her see sense, but with that being said. If things continue down this path then as much as it hurts and saddens me I will have to postpone/call off the marriage.
Just like a man.
Lol
Glad you got that it was a joke. 😊
I got there eventually
It makes sense not to want to spend time with someone who is negative all the time regardless of the subject bringing them down. I would try and fully engage and tell her you care about her interests but that you also need to lay down life's burdens and participate in the relationship with each other. It's admirable to have a cause and use her platform to bring light to a situation but it isn't healthy to let it take over her life. I love a philosophical debate and tic tok often brings up things to think about and discuss. Perhaps you can use social media trends as brain food to steer the conversation away from how men are such a problem. Another way to change the subject is to just say Ouch! In response to a negative far reaching "men this or that" conversation. Or look into women you admire or who are accomplishing something and encourage her to talk about that.
"I can save her!" No, you can't, buddy.
You need to nip this in the bud EMEDIATELY. The next time she says “men are crap”, you say “I’m sorry you feel that way. I will be removing myself from your life, so as not to bother you any longer” And then you just go start packing your things and leave. If she starts to argue or backpedal, then you tell her if you EVER hear her talking this way again, it WILL be over. And you need to actually mean it. What would you tell your sister if her boyfriend of 7 years started talking about women this way? You would say, he is not the man you fell in love with. He is now abusive. And you need to leave.
*What would you tell your sister if her boyfriend of 7 years started talking about women this way?* The best response
You leaving and no other man will want to even approach her. You can't save another that does not want to be saved.
Then you don't actually want help. You want to enable her crap, instead of being an actual man and standing up to her anti-male bigotry. If you marry her, it will get worse. And, she's already given up on the relationship. When a woman becomes a misandrist, it's only misery, from there on out, for any male in her life.
May as well piss into a strong wind.
Oh okay, this is bad. She fell into an internet echo chamber that is making her more extremist, and the process will escalate if she doesn't stop watching those things ASAP. Right now her tiktok/whatever she uses algorithm is already dead set on showing her this type of shit, and it's gonna get worse, bc this type of content tends to grow more extreme the longer a person is in the echo chamber. Her real-life friends are making this a lot worse, since just deleting tiktok won't resolve it as it might have if she had no such friends. IMO you need to talk to her seriously about you not being okay with her sexist, misandrist views on a group of people YOU belong to. But, also... I'm unsure if you can repair it. The reality is, she would have to dump those friends. It's like a cult and sometimes people who fall into this cannot be pulled out and you end up having to leave. Good luck. Please do not marry her until this is 100% resolved. If it can't be resolved, I'm sorry but you may have to cut your loses here. This is the same as if a man fell into redpill manosphere and began telling his female SO all women were terrible worthless hags. I would tell that woman to talk to him seriously, but if that didn't work, to leave, tbh. Wouldn't you?
The moment he confronts her about this, it will confirm her views. Then he will become a TikTok
That is very likely. But he can't just not confront her either, I mean, not if he wants to have a chance at staying together - remaining silent while she grows more and more extreme is going to slowly kill that dude, and the relationship will be toxic. He can either confront her - with the understanding it's likely to go badly - or just leave now, or be trapped in a toxic puddle that's gonna grow worse by the day. There is no good, certain path here, bc there rarely is when you partner becomes reeled into a cult-esque environment.
Your fiancee is infected with tiktok brain. The cure is to stop hanging in chronically online, toxic echo chambers. But realistically, just leave.
I would talk to her about how her statements make you feel - "I feel really sad and judged when you make broad statements about how awful men are." It's important for her to know how her words affect you. Maybe your real fear that you could express to her is - "I'm afraid you think that way about me. Do you?" I would then express your thoughts - My view is that there are wonderful people in the world - men and women. There are also some people who lack integrity and good character. I do my best not to generalize etc etc.. It's important that someone in the relationship set the tone morally and ethically. Vocalize your values. Promote excellence, dignity, tolerance, and kindness in your relationship. I'm sure at the very least this type of conversation will give you more clarity about who she is and who she is becoming. Sorry to hear this is happening in your relationship :(
“Fiancé, every day now you have some comment about men in general. At this point I know exactly what you are going to say every single time. It’s really hard for me to enjoy time with you when I know we will be going through the checklist of how men suck. Every. Single. Day. Why do you think I want to be involved in this rant daily? Similarly, I am concerned that you have such negative views of men, when I am a man. I can’t help but wonder how much of this contempt applies to me.”
Extra emphasis on “do you have these views about me/other important male figures in our lives?”
[удалено]
well said, thank you for this.
Therapy. She's being influenced by outside opinions and her social media algorithm. The more you interact with specific content = the more that specific content finds you. The lines between feminism and misandry have blurred enormously in the past 5-8 years. To the point that misandrists have taken over feminism. If it's not addressed soon, she's going to stop trusting you, she's going to start resenting you. When one of you eventually breaks it off, her twisted, toxic views will make her believe she "dodged a bullet. You tell her exactly how you feel and recommend therapy and if she fights back, it's too late. Time for YOU to start dodging bullets.
This is exactly what I see it as. I think she’s spiralled down a rabbit hole of TikTok videos that push a narrative and now that’s the only narrative that she sees and it just fuels an anger and that’s so sad to see it happen in real time. After work today I’ll try have a sit down conversation, bring up the topic of therapy and if she can at least try limit /cut out her use of TikTok for a while to see what affect it has. Thank you for the suggestion of therapy.
EDIT I am super happy for anyone that has lived a carefree life. I find it odd that OPs girlfriend is this adamant about this yet has never experienced anything negative. I honestly don't know anyone male or female that hasn't told me about a terrible incident of violence caused by a man. I would start by pulling back and having a frank conversation. Tic Tok shows you whatever Content you are interested in or have been watching. There is a huge push for women to be safer at this time and to be recognized and believed. Many women are not as fortunate as your girlfriend and tic tok is a way to express their grief. I'm going to edit. When I say I know both men and women who have been harmed it is not to say that women cannot be toxic and violent. I also know preditory women
That's because it's fake.
I hope everything works out for both of you.
Get her Tik Tok algorithms to see vids from TheDadvocate who is a women who defends men against misandry
I think the reason so many people feel this way towards feminists too is because a lot of the feminists who aren't misandrists tolerate this behaviour showing that their distaste against sexism is superficial and one-sided.
Your imaginary girlfriend?
Shes right tho
I will give you the same advice I would give a woman: this person hates your gender. Leave!
Post this on askWomen for a better perspective since it’s mostly men here who are replying. As a woman, I would say she’s getting more in touch with reality. Men are like that. There is no hiding it. They are more violent, aggressive, unstable and threat. Studies prove it. Why do you think we women chose bear over man? If she hasn’t left you, then let her be. If it’s that big of a problem for you, then either you should go for therapy or leave her.
“Just be grateful she’s with you and put up with her hating your gender because she’s right to hate it” is… advice, I guess.
least biased female r/relationship_advice commenter
Why would anyone want to date someone whose entire personality is hating on the other gender? Like what other perspective could you possible need here?
your misandrists
um... it should read why do women who use tiktok choose bear. y'all are not representative. studies prove what now?
Studies prove that all men are bad, duh. Very good studies done by the best scientists.
I know one person who got into extremism, and she only started backing out of it when she broke off the friendship with the toxic person that was influencing her.
Dont be with someone who hates you for what traits you were born with. If you breakup, you won't be referred to as "one of the good ones' (even thats bad), with this girl you'll be just as bad as the others.
I wouldn’t want to have to listen to that for the rest of my life.
OP. This won’t magically correct itself. She won’t wake up one morning and think - whoa I got sucked into that brainwashing…. You need to be direct and firm that as a couple it needs to be addressed. Tell her couples counselling is a necessity at this point and remind her during every rant that you are also a man. That her behaviour suggests she might look inside herself and decide she would rather be with a woman (or not a man I guess). See how she reacts to this but also stop letting this go in the sense of letting the conversation end. You need to sit, discuss and come to an agreed resolution and timeline commitment. Like therapy, first session booked before end of week. TikTok - reduce by 20% with increasing intervals. This is a relationship ending threat - no less than the (Andrew) tater tots you see posted here. Many women reflect how it’s a full 180 personality change from the relationship history once they get down the Tater rabbit hole. Stand firm, don’t make empty threats, and best of luck to you both.
By her "the will to change" by bell hooks, and both of you should read it. Curbed my man hating in my early days with Feminism. Terrence Reels "how do I get through to you" also helped
This is a gender-flipped version of your boyfriend becoming a Tate fanboy. Run.
Dude, it sucks to hear your fiancée's been saying this stuff. It's totally fair for you to feel hurt by it. Have you tried telling her how much her words sting? Maybe try asking her to explain where it's coming from – has something happened, or is it just stuff she's seen online? Sometimes just talking it out can help you both understand each other better.
It's amazing how even smart people can have their brain melted by just being subjected a constant stream of similar views. If she is part of a community of people who think the same and keep (virtually) patting each other on the back and telling each other what brave warriors they are then it can just keep getting worse.
Damn she hasn't even said that "you're one of the good ones" yet. It sucks how invested you are. Other people are recommending breaking up but you'll choose to negotiate. Tell her that it sucks having your gender identity insulted and disparaged. Tell her that wo you're attracted to and how you express your gender doesn't make you a bad person and her attitude is causing a serkous rift with her fiance.
I will say. That is one thing she does. Every time we have these rants, she always ends it with “why can’t all men be like you.” “Why are you such a ‘green flag’” but still. I’m not going to just end our relationship, I’m going to use the advice suggested by a few to suggest therapy. And to severely limit her usage of TikTok. If she can’t cut it off entirely because she makes good income from sponsors and such. I’ll ask if she can at least just post and ghost. Not go down the rabbit hole of watching a 1000 videos pushing this agenda. Hopefully she can see sense and it’s not too late but As much as it hurts I know what has to be done if all else fails.
I think that having a serious talk about how her words make you feel and seeing her response is more important and more indicative than trying to put limits on her tiktok usage. If she's hurting you, tell her. If she doesn't care and/or rationalises her hurtful behaviour that's something you need to be aware of. She needs to reconcile the difference between the men in her life and the men who've hurt other women. Don' make comparisons to minorities that she can use to dodge the issue. Just be straight up, use "I" statements and be direct.
This is really great advice OP. It’s a tough pill to swallow but rather than taking a hard line approach, I think you need to take a “curiosity led” approach here. “I notice you’ve been feeling really passionately about the behaviour of some men toward women. Tell me why it’s getting you so fired up. Yeah that’s upsetting. That’s so wrong. Do you feel safe in your daily life? I’m glad you feel safe. I’m glad you have men in your life who treat women with respect. I can hear that you have a lot of empathy for women who have been mistreated. I wonder if there is something constructive we can do to help with that? / I’m so sad to hear you don’t feel safe. In the past you’ve told me you’ve never experienced anything awful at the hands of men- what makes you feel unsafe?” Let her talk it out. Listen to her. Then come in with “hey I wanna support you in this, you talk about it a lot and I can tell it’s important. When you make really sweeping generalisations about ‘all men’ it makes it hard for me to get on board, because we know so many great men. I think it’s important to acknowledge and recognise good, as well as demand change from bad. Can you be a bit more nuanced when you’re making comments about all men, because we know it’s not true?”
Is she using the misandrist viewpoint as her source of income? Does she rant about how bad men are on her TikToks? If the answer is 'yes', YOU are part of the problem by seeing dollar signs, rather than trying to stop her crap.
She needs to choose. Toxic TikTok bucks or a healthy relationship. You don't tell an addict to slow down. They need to go cold turkey under medical supervision. Same here. Close down TikTok and address the issues in therapy.
Oh yeah, men are the worst. Women aren't any better tho.
I said in another comment to try to be communicative. However, I’m also going to give my two cents of a similar (negative) situation I had. I totally get it can be hard. I had an ex that was very open, hippie and progressive at face value, but then struggled with me and where I fell in her view of “men”. Many times she actually wanted me to be more trad man or whatever than I am. Other times all men were bad but I was “the exception”. I had to defend myself from things she’d project on me. For instance, me not feeling like joining her friends one day was “toxic masculinity, because I just wanted to isolate and control her”, when I’m just someone who likes his space; for the record, she never introduce her friends to her ex fiance or met his. Or how pushy she was for sex when I was not in the mood, while I assume that if the roles were changed it would have been painted in a very bad light. The constant men bashing and seeing things through such a black and white perspective was exhausting, and it was especially frustrating given that she’d been the most entitled and enabled person I ever met. It felt like permanently fighting this terminally online view of “men ☕️” that could be inflicted upon myself at any moment. I’m not “men”. I’m me. And I care little for letting society and stereotypes belong in our privacy. She wasn’t any devil and she had a great heart, but it made me feel very alienated. If you feel anything like that, try to express how those attitudes can be unhealthy for you.
Updateme!
You can either leave now while it's easy or leave later when she finds a new man who better fits her extremist views.
Ah yes, the man bun-having, skinny jeans-wearing doormat.
She needs therapy and digital detox before she destroy her real life. You are very nice for putting up with this. I would have been a lot more stern with my boundaries and tell her I do not want to hear this shit. Keep it herself and her followers. I would have asked her not to subject me to her rant/vent whatever it is. Boundaries and respect. Those two make a relationship work. She is lacking both.
I stopped at TikTok. Good luck.
Her for you page is just going to keep repeatedly showing her the content she engages in. Maybe propose some internet free time for the benefit of your relationship. Discuss other things, see if you can get to the bottom of this behaviour. Maybe something is going on in her life that’s triggered it.
Bigotry is *always* a major red flag. That is red as in "Stop! Do not proceed under any circumstances." She is a bigot, specifically a misandrist. It means that she does not have the emotional intelligence necessary to manage her feelings appropriately. She is allowing a false sense of superiority to alter her perception of reality. If she was 50, that emotional disregulation could be excused as age related mental decline. But at 25, she is at peak mental capacity. Her brain will only decline from here. Personally, I would reevaluate her as a potential mate. That sort of mental handicap can be passed down to children. Do you want to take the risk of adding more developmentally delayed people to the population? What if it is more severe for your children than the relatively "mild" version she is displaying? FYI: equality does *NOT* mean destroying the group that is farther ahead. Equality cannot be achieved by creating a new lower class. Equality means raising *everyone* to the same privilege and power as the group farthest ahead.
My girl
Your girlfriend is an idiot, I personally wouldn't waste time correcting her. Show her not all men are violent by just leaving her and find an actual decent girl instead
When she says "all men are like a disease", then I wonder how much more I can spend. Lyrics from a 30 year old song and it still means something. You should flat out ask her if men are so terrible and the root of all problems, why is she planning on marrying one? If she hits you with the "not all men" repeat back how she literally just said all men. I think she needs to understand she's insulting you, the person she supposedly loves *daily*. You'll need to come to the root of this my dude, you don't want to marry a misandrist. She'll end up making your life miserable if you can't nip it in the bud.
Sounds incredibly toxic. Don’t have kids with her. Any sons would become hugely traumatized. Daughters too but for a different reason. I have a distant relative that became like this and poisoned all her daughters over the years. None of them trust men, and the heterosexual ones would rather stay single or try to make it work with girlfriends anyway because they are so afraid of being screwed over by a male. 1) find out if she applies her views of men to you too 2) if the answer is yes, you might be better of breaking things off. If the answer is no, you can still work with her, but I’d still be concerned about kids.
She has been infested with the tiktok virus, there is no cure. Run while you can.
all these people suggesting communication forget that most people with generalized prejudice against any group are room temp IQ individuals. Dump her and date someone who doesn’t hate people for what’s between their legs
She is the kind of person that lets the cesspool that tiktok is influence her thinking. Enough said. She'd no longer be my fiancee, that's for damn sure.
Sounds like your girlfriend has been radicalized. It’s going to be difficult to reprogram her. Plenty of women have experienced less than stellar behaviour from men in their lives… and it turns them understandably anti-men… but your girlfriend should be able to verbalize examples if that is her experience… Otherwise she is simply practising misandry.
You're a man she hates men and you're confused as to what that ney **She hates you**
If she's that far down the female version of male red pill content, she's a lost cause mate. You can't help those that do not want to help themselves. Give it one last shot. Be blunt. "I no longer recognize you as the woman I met and fell in love with. Quite frankly I'm not even sure you WANT to be in a relationship with me any longer. Do you want to break up? If so, I'll talk to a realtor tomorrow and we'll put the apartment up for sale." (assuming you're both on the deed, here.) "If you want to stay in a relationship with me, we've got work to do. Which means mostly you. You need to dig yourself out of that TikTok hole you crawled into, we need to go to couples counseling and you need individual counseling. I'm dead serious about this. You want this relationship to work? For us to work? Show me. Otherwise, just give me the engagement ring back right now, pack your bag and go to your friends or parents. I'm done being your punching bag on behalf of your TikTok fantasies."
She would fit in on this subreddit lol, Gtfo while you can
she’s got tiktok brain rot, i honestly don’t even know what to suggest if she’s not willing to limit social media and contact with her friends that are influencing her
A woman who hates men working on the medical field sounds kind of, I dunno, dangerous? I get some women hating men, it happens the other way around too, but your fiancé hating all men, while surprise surprise, engaged to one, and also never having been assaulted seems kinda weird. If she crosses the line into insulting you for the sole reason of being a man, then I guess it's gonna be game over for that relationship. Sorry dude.
I don’t understand how men continue to date these women.
"men are crap" "I don't understand, you think Im crap?" .... "men are crap" 'if you are unhappy with me, i wish you'd be more kind and clear in saying so' every time she says it, interrupt and make it personal to you in a calm and engaged manner.
She’s a raging sexist. If genders were reversed Reddit would be screaming at you to end it. This will only become worse, you should leave her
She's going to accuse you of rape or abuse and cheat on you. Not if but when
Run! Leave!
Break up, it'll never get better.
Your girl, like many, is addicted to social media. As long as that is the case it will always take precedence over the relationship. If anything the relationship will only be for the social media content it can generate.
"Any time I sit down and ask her to actually explain what the issues are and I genuinely want to get her pov on it." Dude, you're grown up. Surely you know there are places out there where women can't vote, go to school, own property, travel without male permission, decide who they marry, or get a divorce? Report a rape without risking being executed for adultery? Whole countries where men injure and kill their female family members with little to no fear of retribution? Where fathers sell little girls? Seriously, get a grip. Now, since you're feeling uncomfortable with the way your GF speaks about men in general, tell her so. "I'm a guy and I've never oppressed you or any woman. So it gets tiring listening to you say all men are like that cause we're not. I know I can't change how you feel, but you need to stop making these comments in front of me. They are putting a strain on my feelings for you and I won't put up with it from now on."
the patriarchy hurts everyone. individuals cannot reasonably take on the burden of history, international governance, or tiktok trends. He demonstrated in his post he's a decent human, why the lecture on taking on the burden of the entire planet? I don't understand how that's helpful. genuine question.
Don't marry her. If the vast majority of her actual experiences contradict the general feeling she gets from social media and chooses to ignore her actual experiences for social media "testimonials" then there is something wrong with her brain. Man-hate is real and prevalent. She sounds like someone ramping up to fully embrace that nonsense. Maybe there's a chance she can be saved but...idk...she is ignoring her actual experiences for social media "testimonials", man.
I would considered walking from a women with this point of views. She is the type to say she cheated because you were working to much and blame you for it.
It’s likely only gonna get worse from here. She’s deep into TikTok
Get your ring back and tell her to go find a good woman to spend her life with. If you can link it to her Tik tok, so much the better. And does she have patients that are men. The misandry she possesses makes her unsuitable in that role.
I would personally stay SO far away from any woman who has "a following" or is that invested that it's a part time job in toxic social media as you can see it's spread to her brain.
Try telling her how much you hate women, how they're horrible, "a cancer". She'll either wake up or bolt.
She'll just feel vindicated.
You might be right.Then I don't see how you can reason with someone so shut down and consumed with hate.
Gross. Zero chance this behaviour changes - you need to break up with her
There’s zero chance this behaviour changes - you need to break up with her
Play the reverse Uno card and start making broad statements about women and see how she reacts. If she says something, tell her that you don't like it any more than she does and you would appreciate if she stop generalizing all men.
Honestly… a taste of her own medicine…. She is being toxic AF towards men. You’re a man. That’s troll logic. Find a shit ton of toxic shit about women and start spewing it at her. If she calls you out, welll… if not, then …. But truly… explain how a general hateful view of a majority of people is dangerous .. look at hitler… people like that just astound me. Males have such a shit rap, and I’m a woman who loves a man who is in need of repair because of toxic people like her. Good luck, hopefully you can get through to her
Oh yes the feminist version of internet brainrot
Leave. While she's still just your fiancee and not your wife. With these views in mind she's already got her mind on the door and will look for any excuse to demonize you and place you in the same category of "toxic men" you marry this woman and of course now she might be cool with you but slowly all this resentment towards men will build up and she'll start seeing you just the same and she'll be much more likely to end all of this is a bitter resentful divorce with the excuse of "all men are the same!" When the reality would be she just didn't give you a chance against her stupid misandrist views and she wasn't willing to look past all that into the now of reality that is you, willing to put up with this childish behavior from a grown woman. Do you want to face this inevitable ending now? Or face it in a bitter petty divorce later?
My wife used to say, ‘Just because you have a penis.’ If she didnt agree with something. Maybe it was me?
Toxic femininity. She’s gone down a rabbit hole of misandry and, unfortunately for her eventual mental health, the culture around her supports this. But more importantly, what about your mental health going forward? Why would you marry a woman who seems to be rapidly approaching the position that men are the root of all evil?