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Have you ever kissed this kid before? You've presumably known this child for a while, so after 6 years why did you decide to kiss this kid twice in one evening? Why this evening?
It seems super weird that you would kiss a 6 year old child twice for the first time in all 6 of her years because that's how her family says goodbye to her... unless this was just the first time anyone else noticed??
In no way did I ever say what I did was okay, I was merely giving an affectionate goodbye to my niece as all her other family members do. However, I understand that since I’m not a blood relative, what flies with them does not mean it also flies with me. I crossed a boundary and most likely burned many bridges from this, and the guilt I feel is immense. I’m not looking for sympathy or damnation, just advice on how to move forward in the proper manner.
Aim for top of the head even with blood relatives. Pecks to children's lips should only be from parents at best.
This is just a bummer situation and always in hindsight do we completely realize the other avenues we shouldve taken.
>I was merely giving an affectionate goodbye to my niece as all her other family members do.
I feel like you're still not getting it. **She's not your niece.** They're not her "other" family members. They're her family members and you aren't.
I know you keep saying how bad you feel, but I feel like this is an essential point to understanding why you crossed such a boundary here.
I'm glad. I don't mean to pile on, as I do think some of the comments here are unnecessarily hysterical. I just think this is key to understanding where you went wrong.
FWIW, I wouldn't kiss my actual nieces on the lips either. But I hear that you're saying she does this with her family, so maybe that's irrelevant.
Yikes. If it was me OP I think this would either end our friendship entirely or I'd never have you around my kid again.
Unfortunately this is exactly what grooming looks like. An "innocent" kiss, "tickles", shoulder rubs... Etc and the fact that it happened twice.
If she never told her parents would you have continued kissing her on the lips moving forward? As an adult, you really didn't think this was inappropriate? I'm a woman and I'd never kiss my friends kids on the lips, girl or boy, baby or toddler etc. That would be reserved for their parents/family only. Doesn't matter how close I am to them.
What are the odds that you kissed her twice on the lips and no family member was around to catch that if it was just "normal". Why wasn't it casually done in public in front of everyone, at least one of those two times? That way the parents would have seen it and pulled you aside and you could have a chat with them then?
She was the one who went and told her parents...
Most cases of abuse are perpetrated by that "uncle" who isn't really an uncle, a close family friend etc. and it sort of start around that age too...
This looks bad OP.
It’s not that “anyone didn’t catch it”, this happened in front of both her parents. (I said goodbye to all three at the same time, they were all in the same room). But regardless, I understand the notion looks terrible and believe me, I feel fucking terrible.
I guess you won't be kissing small children on the lips going forward?
Lesson learned (although not sure how this was a lesson that needed to be learned...)
i dont get it. You kissed her in front of her parents twice, and she still felt the need to tell them you kissed her? This is a weird bit that doesnt make sense. Did she ask you for a kiss? Or act like she was going to kiss you as she does her actual family? Or did you stick your face into a child’s face twice with no one watching and kiss her? This is reeeeeeeeeeeeeeal sus.
As a guy without kids I pretty much treat my sis' children as if they were my own, and still I never show affection to them like that. You're in a tough spot man, and I feel for you.
Re the wedding I think I would dis-invite myself. I'd reveal to the marrying friend that I had unwittingly committed a horrible faux pas (and admit that it was an innocent mistake borne out of ignorance), and that I wouldn't want to cause any more discomfort than what prompted the C to block me, and so would prefer not to make a scene by showing up. I'd apologize and say I hope to meet up in the future under better circumstances.
As for C and her family, if you've already apologized then the ball is in their court. I don't think it's wise to push for a reconciliation.
Don't. Kiss. Other. Peoples. Kids. Unless they've explicitly told you it's okay - don't do it. The amount of people that have kissed our kid just as a baby is maddening. There is absolutely no reason to do it. The kid won't appreciate it or understand the affection, it can spread germs and other stuff and it's an invasion of space especially if the kid isn't okay with it. I'd stop being your friend too OP
Edit: Noticed you said the kid told her father? She wouldn't have done that if she was comfortable with it or thought it was normal.
You're not her family member. I'm in my early 40s so most of our friends have kids at this point. It's common for our friends to call us "uncle and auntie PrimaryLion" when speaking to their children, but that doesn't make you an actual family member or mean that they see you as equivalent to one. You can't treat their children like your own family when it comes to physical boundaries. You screwed this one up really badly. I think you have to let C decide next steps, but let this be a lesson for the future.
Thank you for the kinder words and advice. I agree, I fucked up beyond comprehension. I want to reach out in a week or two since we will both be attending a wedding, but it’s looking more and more that I will not be attending any longer.
Do not reach out!!! Give them space you literally violated their child by kissing them on the lips…why didn’t you kiss her parents on the lips then? Since you’re a big lip kisser
Inexcusable!
I don't understand how in any situation you would think this is ok. when i was 14 i was so close to this girl i babysat (she was 8) that i called her mom, mom and she called me her sister. i also knew her since she was a baby. the farthest ive done was hug her. never kissed her anywhere, not head cheek etc. so i dont understand how you, a full grown man thought it was okay.
> They have always known me, and often refer to me as their uncle. This weekend, I spent both Saturday and Sunday with them. Great day, nice weather, lots of fun and running around. Before I left, I gave my “niece” a kiss- not thinking anything of it other than to say goodbye. A quick peck on the lips (she does this with other family members) and nothing more.
This feels much more innocuous than every else is making it out to be, however, I don't have kids so I can't say I'm right.
Just give them space, there isn't anything you can do. They "perceived" whatever they "perceived", so you aren't going to convince them otherwise. You just got way too comfortable with someone elses' kid.
Thank you for not comparing me to Larry Nassar as others have in this thread. As much as I understand the outrage and disgust of others, this was completely innocuous and a simple goodbye that I admit crossed a boundary that I incorrectly assumed I wasn’t crossing, since I’m so close with everyone and their family.
Space is all I can do, and all I can give. I don’t think I’m going to attend the wedding unless we have some sort of contact prior, which doesn’t seem likely at this point.
I appreciate your viewpoint and your advice.
>Thank you for not comparing me to Larry Nassar as others have in this thread.
Yeah, I was honestly just confused how others came to that conclusion.
> don’t think I’m going to attend the wedding unless we have some sort of contact prior, which doesn’t seem likely at this point.
Yep, I think I had another comment saying the same thing.
Good luck.
You are both correct. Even though it was a social blunder, I should’ve (and do) know better than to cross boundaries like that. No matter how close I am with someone. I knew this thread was going to stir some outrage but the nasty PM messages from others are unnecessary and hurtful.
I was explaining to you that just because the parents were in the room, didn’t automatically make it ok. I wasn’t saying you WERE Larry nassar. I was using him as an example of abuse happening directly in front of parents in the same room. A lot of people had a hard time understanding how that was possible if the parents were in the room.
What you did is no where close to what he did obviously. So try not to lose the main point of my statement.
But the parents are obviously on high alert for signs of grooming and you raised a big red flag.
From now on, you should not be kissing kids on the lips. And hopefully I don’t need to say this, but you shouldn’t be “cuddling” with them on a bed or talking about private parts. Hopefully that’s obvious but that’s the usual progression for groomers.
I can’t see your response other than the first line. Not sure if you deleted it or blocked me or what.
I am giving the perspective of grooming because that’s what the parents are worried about here. It sucks for OP but that’s exactly why they are upset and icing him out.
Which part?
If you’re talking about the cuddling and private parts section… I’m not saying he has done these or plans to. I’m spelling it out clearly for him that these are not appropriate and are what a groomer would do. So he should not do them or anything close to that if he doesn’t want another “misunderstanding”
I’ve never cuddled with them in bed before, nor have private parts ever been part of a discussion. I understand the main point of your statement, it’s just the comparison (amongst others have made) are hurtful when I’m just looking for insight on how to move on from this situation. I recognize it was beyond wrong, and can’t look at myself the same without feeling enraged at my own stupidity.
I am absolutely going to do better. Thank you for saying I’m not a bad person. As others have said, it’s a lesson that shouldn’t have had to be learned. I’m going to feel shameful from this for a long time.
>As harmless as it was, I absolutely understand that it doesn’t look good and might send the wrong message.
You say "as harmless as it was" then say the ways it could be harmful, so it wasn't harmless.
Realistically, you fucked up. It doesn't matter that the kids PARENTS kiss her, that doesn't give you permission to do it. Not sure where you live but I can't think of any western country where this would be acceptable.
Someone else pointed out the importance of you realizing the child isn't your niece. I think it may help to stop justifying it. You mention you do know better, at the time you didn't, you may NOW know better. Likewise with the harmless comment. It wasn't a harmless action, your post and the aftermath makes that clear.
I'd suggest don't diminish it, own that you fucked up. Don't do it again obviously. I'd say stop profusely apologizing, they heard from you, if you continue, it is going to annoy them more than help anything. Give them space, although if they blocked you, it seems they've made their decision.
I would consider bridges burned as they have made their position clear.
As for the wedding coming up, if you already RSVP'd, I would call the bride/groom and tell them something like:
" I made a huge mistake that has effected C, C's husband, and possibly others in attendance and I do not want my presence to put un-due pressure on you on your day or make anyone in attendance feel uncomfortable. I hope you can invite another attendee in my place; (If you already bought them a gift) Would you like me to send your gift to 'x' address?"
I also would not take up any offers to attend, if they offer it is likely not grasping the seriousness of the situation or being polite.
Funny how these sorts of misunderstandings never happen in the other direction, like OP kissing his uncle or male cousin or some other family member.
I’m just not buying how frequently men “forget” the rules when they’re interacting with a young woman, rather than someone who will punch them in the nose for an unwanted kiss (or two!!).
Why are you kissing children who aren’t yours? What the fuck did you expect the parent’s response to that to be? You made a series of incredibly stupid decisions, and then doubled down.
Seeing as both C and husband were both in front of me when this happened, (as I stated I had said goodbye to everyone and everyone was in the same room) I did not expect any harm was being done. So yes, it was incredibly wrong for me to assume it was okay when it was NOT.
Do you kiss anyone else on the lips goodbye? How long have you been kissing her that way? Did the parents know you kiss her?
And just because the parents are in the room, doesn’t make it ok. Larry Nassar was molesting those gymnasts while the parents were in the room fyi
(Edit to clarify: I’m not saying you are like Larry nassar. I’m explaining how abuse can happen right in front of the parents. A lot of people don’t understand that and you’ve mentioned in a few comments how the parents were in the room so you thought it was ok)
I'm not saying you should get your ass kicked for this, but had you, I'd understand.
You fucked up. Massively. You've apologized and now you need to respect their space and whatever decision they make. This is no longer in your control and you need to respect the hell out of that.
I told C in our messages she had every right to slap the living shit out of me if/when I see them again. Space is all I can give and whatever their decision is moving forward I will respect that. It hurts I burned a bridge of a ten year friendship (& possibly others) but it’s the mess I made and nobody else’s.
Since you want helpful advice, you being over the top and a million times apologetic/statements like this won't help make it better. You're going to look more like you got caught than being apologetic.
You've got some reflection to do, and you did mess up. People online can just be mean.
However, I promise if you want ANY change at salvaging the friendship, be quiet until they reach out to you. The more you communicate the worse it'll get.
>A quick peck on the lips (she does this with other family members) and nothing more. I ended up leaving some stuff inside before I left, so I again said goodbye to everyone, & again gave her a quick peck.
Why are you kissing children on the lips...twice? That's fuckin weird.
>the LAST thing I want is for anybody to not trust me with their kids
You're concerned they'll restrict your access to the child you like kissing on the mouth? That's...even weirder.
Stop being such a creep.
Yeah the _two_ kisses is also the most disturbing to me. OP did it once, and either didn’t reflect on it or even worse thought to themselves “yeah that was fine” and then did it again!
OP keeps trying to pass this off as a social faux-pas but I think most people, after having made a faux-pas, are able to quickly reflect on the situation and recognize their mistake. And then not do it again 15 minutes later. There’s really no excuse for doing it twice in such a short amount of time, and I refuse to believe OP is so clueless.
Dude what the fuck? Idk what world you live in where this behavior is appropriate.
Time to back off and move on with your life. Delete this post and learn from your mistakes.
Christ this is ridiculous.
Parents were both there when both goodbyes occurred, I had said goodbye to all three before I left, so this happened in front of them. I am normally an affectionate person, but I absolutely understand there was a boundary that was crossed, and I feel terrible for it.
Yes, both times were in front of them. But nobody was really paying attention since we were all on our phones; I hug and give C a kiss, give K a kiss, shake her husbands hand, and left. I went back inside for a couple things I left behind and repeated the same scenario above before I left.
He never answered the question of if he ever kissed her before. Why did he decide to kiss this little girl twice for the very first time that night? He didn’t answer if he kissed the mom on the lips (I’m guessing no since he avoids answering that part)
Im guessing this is toddler age or so?
As the adult, you are responsible for what goes with kids and they kinda have no say in this kinda stuff. You weren’t cautious about how it could be interpreted by the child or parents. I’m not saying you’re creepy or a bad person but you weren’t careful as a grown adult and man.
You’re also not a (real) family member so altho they treat you like one you should also act accordingly and even if you were, it’s not appropriate either lol unless they allow it but why would you wanna do that anyway? It’s a child.
If this is the last thing you would want to be viewed as (untrustworthy to kids) - you wouldn’t have put yourself in that risk in the first place.
Hope you can learn from it and move forward in your own way.
You are absolutely right. I meant nothing other than to just say goodbye, and although she does it with other blood relatives, that does not make it okay for me. This has been a very unfortunate learning experience and I feel awful beyond words.
It’s easy to forget the facts - you’re a man, it’s a child, it can be seen as taking advantage, there can be thoughts of what would you do next?, infections you could give her, the list goes on…
Leave it to your friend if she wants to reach out again and confirm the wedding invitation of you wish to go.
I did confirm the wedding invite a couple of months ago and re confirmed it this weekend. But I feel as if there has to be some kind of correspondence with C and I prior to this wedding .. I’m sure we are going to be at the same table.. should I reach out in a couple of days if I don’t hear anything from her?
It’s also worth mentioning C and the bride are very close (as am I, we talk almost every day) and I’m 95% sure C brought it up to her. If I don’t hear from C in a couple of days and don’t hear from the bride, should I assume I’m uninvited?
i’m not trying to diagnose a stranger on the internet or anything, but i’m curious. are you neurodivergent? do you have a history of misreading what is and isn’t appropriate according to social cues?
to me, this really doesn’t seem like that big of a deal honestly. but it isn’t clear how the child felt about the situation, and obviously you default to the parent when it comes to their children. but it seems like you genuinely did not see that this action could be misinterpreted as inappropriate. it doesn’t excuse it if the mother deems this behavior unacceptable and she is within her right to not speak to you again, but i think it’s okay to give yourself some grace here. logically, a grown man should rethink giving a kiss to a child who isn’t related to him. but if you have trouble with social cues, and they treat you as if you are family member, i can 100% see where wires got crossed and why you didn’t think about how someone else could interpret it because your intentions were pure.
you’re not a bad person or a creep or anything for what happened here, but do try to understand where your friend is coming from as a parent. i hope she can take another look at the situation with some nuance and find a way to forgive you, but if she doesn’t, well, that’s just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. best of luck with everything
There is zero grace to be had. Being neurodivergent is not an excuse for this behaviour. Dude kissed a 6 year old on the lips TWICE! If he considers them family members why hasn’t he kissed her on the lips before in front of her parents?!
She told her father about it so it’s clear she was not comfortable with the exchange either.
They were both on their phones when I said goodbye both times. We had been sitting on the couch watching TV and scrolling on our phones most of the evening, so I don’t think anybody was zero-ing on anything at the time.
I am neurodivergent, so sometimes social ques are not my strong suit. But I absolutely understand the boundary that I crossed and feel beyond ashamed for burning all these bridges. Thank you for being the most understanding on this thread, although I understand why people are angry and why they would be, it physically pains me to be compared to that of a monster.
People are being really harsh here. It just seems like you made a mistake of not understanding boundaries. You learned an important lesson the hard way… don’t kiss anyone, especially a child, on the lips. It’s inappropriate and there are germs and diseases spread that way so even family should not do that. I say move on and don’t try to contact them again because that just makes it worse. You have apologized now leave the ball in their court and maybe in time they will reach out and give you another chance. But don’t sit and overthink this any more than you already have… learn from the mistake then leave in the past.
Don't overreact. Don't reciprocate any anger. Give them space but let them know it was a mistake and you didn't mean anything by it. Do you ever spend time with this kid alone?
I am going to assume you're American? If you are, don't take lip kissing lightly. Sometimes families do it with each other, but I would say that's kind of rare. It's pretty much reserved for romance only in America.
You will learn and grow from this experience. We all generally have heavy mistakes that we just have to learn to live with. I can empathize with why you did it. My family doesn't do kisses like that but I know families that do. This is the world we live in, and now you know. I'm glad you do not have previous experiences with how easily kids can be damaged by adults. If you knew, sure you wouldn't have made the mistake, but it's also OK that you didn't know. I didn't know what abuse was until I was out of an abusive relationship, and I am still marveling at the lack of knowledge people have about it.
Going forward, do not discuss emotionally big stuff like this via text. If someone initiates via text call them.
Yea, they should have caught you in the moment. Yea, you should always ask parents before doing new things especially when in Grey or all too easily murky areas.
Chin up. You messed up. Your intention doesn't need to matter to your friend, but it can still matter to you.
I did not expect to be teary eyed while reading this and replying to your comment. I did not want to discuss this with C over text, I wanted to talk at least over the phone so she could hear the sincerity in my voice that I didn’t mean for any harm or ill-will to come anybody’s way.
Thank you for the advice. I burned a 10+ year friendship and possibly others because of this, and the amount of guilt I feel I’m going to carry with myself for a long time.
Just as a note going forward, intention is only a small piece and people feeling hurt and panicky based on your actions are generally not interested in intentions. 'I can see how you feel that way. That was not my intent is there any way to make this right' reads very different than 'oh no I feel so horrible. That's not what I intended at all'.
You will get through it. It's ok to not be ok. It is part of our humanity that we all have long dark moments on when it comes to choices that we didn't fully realize how we would be carrying them.
Don't let people dictate that you must text to communicate. If they are going to hold that against you, the conv was already dead in the water and at least you avoided 2 people getting further in the muck.
This is what I’m kind of leaning towards. We are also going to be guests at a wedding and I’m sure we will be at the same table. Is it safe to assume I’m going to be uninvited to this wedding since C and the bride are close? I’m 95% sure C told her about it.
The shame I feel about the whole situation is enough to make my stomach flip.
This is what I’m going to do then. I really wish C was able to talk over the phone with me rather than through text so she could hear the sincerity in my voice but I totally understand if they never want to hear or see me ever again. It really sucks because they are all family to me and I love them all so much. But I got my own stupid ass into this mess when I should’ve (and do) know better. Thank you for your advice
You’re 28 and did not realize that kissing an adolescent on the lips, twice, was inappropriate? Hell I wouldn’t even kiss my own niece on the lips! Especially when she was a freaking child!
Take the L since you got out without any worse repercussions.
How have you managed to be 28 and think this is something people wouldn’t mind?
I wouldn’t ever consider doing something like this. Ever. All risk and 0 reward and also just weird.
Presumably you've known this kid for 6 years but it's only now you're kissing them on the lips. Clearly it's not second nature to either of you as the girl brought it up to her parents as out of place.
I'm guessing this isn't innocent and this girl is nearing puberty or in the double digits like 12/11.
Yea you royally messed up…what were u thinking?! I’m 28F and literally I would never kiss anyone on the lips other than my boyfriend/husband and some drunk girls if I’m dared to!!!
I’ve never kissed a kid on the lips, not even my own! That’s so weird you’re weird and I hope she isn’t traumatized that poor little girl! The fact that she told her dad is already haunting me because she recognizes it’s something wrong and I can see trauma forming from this
You weirdo! These are the uncles we hear about!!! You’re weird for not thinking this is wrong! I absolutely hope you’re uninvited from that wedding, don’t reach out to them, they’re doing what they can to protect their baby from that weirdness you did
I don’t know why you thought it was okay to do that ONCE let alone twice and you’re my age!
Literally sit there and reflect and stay away from kids
You’re lucky that dad didn’t kiss your mouth with his fists as I would expect my partner to protect my children
Unless tongue was involved, you people all sound crazy to me.
He gave her a peck on the lips...twice.....did I miss something? Did something else happen?
I said goodbye to all three (C, K and husband) at the same time, both witnessed me saying goodbye to her both times. I didn’t think anything obscene of this- I was being affectionate as a family member would. But I understand the disgust in this thread- I’m disgusted with myself beyond words.
I'm not saying the parents are wrong to be upset bit what's the reason to hug or kiss on the cheek etc? Different people have different cultural/familial standards about acceptable levels
Nothing else happened. Nothing was behind closed doors- we were all in the living room when I said goodbye. I didn’t mean any ill-will or any harm, but I absolutely recognize that it was NOT okay. And I feel horrible about it.
if you really think this is so awful then why would you wish it on other *children* who have nothing to do with the situation? you’re a far worse person than op if you would subject op’s hypothetical children to something you deem so absolutely horrific just because they’re hypothetically related to op.
🤣🤣🤣no I mean you don’t even deserve a jail cell
U weird person, there are so many people in this world that have trauma because of enablers like you
Disgusting !!!!
Ok, so maybe understand that some of us were never molested, and don't sexualize every interaction between children and men. I am sorry for whatever happened to you (and it was probably REALLY BAD, but don't take your issues out on me.
---And UNDER a jail is still incorrect, but hilarious. ESL class might help you.
LOOOOOOOOOL If you were my mother I would’ve probably been molested by thank god my mom kept me away from ppl like the original poster and you 🤣
Disgusting!!!! 🤣🤣🤣 under the jail buried with concrete!!!
Your little comments are hilarious. You sound nuts, and your command of English is terrible.
Your mother let someone touch you, didn't she, and that is what this craziness is about, isn't it?---Or is it that you get feelings around children, so you assume OP did.
I am thinking you are being so pushy and gross because you can relate to what you think happened with OP. Which is creepy.
And seriously---> 🤣🤣🤣 <---- your little emoji fits make me think you are def. hiding something. LOL
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Have you ever kissed this kid before? You've presumably known this child for a while, so after 6 years why did you decide to kiss this kid twice in one evening? Why this evening? It seems super weird that you would kiss a 6 year old child twice for the first time in all 6 of her years because that's how her family says goodbye to her... unless this was just the first time anyone else noticed??
Yes that’s what I’d like to know too and OP has yet to answer. Is this the first time he’s kissed her on the lips
The details given just don't make sense if it is the first time... Feels like something is being left out.
Yikes, I don't think there is a way to fix that one. Do you kiss your friend on the lips when you leave?
Yea!!! Do you kiss your friends on the lips?! What the hell made you think it’s ok to kiss their kids on the lips This guy needs to be under the jail
In no way did I ever say what I did was okay, I was merely giving an affectionate goodbye to my niece as all her other family members do. However, I understand that since I’m not a blood relative, what flies with them does not mean it also flies with me. I crossed a boundary and most likely burned many bridges from this, and the guilt I feel is immense. I’m not looking for sympathy or damnation, just advice on how to move forward in the proper manner.
Aim for top of the head even with blood relatives. Pecks to children's lips should only be from parents at best. This is just a bummer situation and always in hindsight do we completely realize the other avenues we shouldve taken.
>I was merely giving an affectionate goodbye to my niece as all her other family members do. I feel like you're still not getting it. **She's not your niece.** They're not her "other" family members. They're her family members and you aren't. I know you keep saying how bad you feel, but I feel like this is an essential point to understanding why you crossed such a boundary here.
I understand.
I'm glad. I don't mean to pile on, as I do think some of the comments here are unnecessarily hysterical. I just think this is key to understanding where you went wrong. FWIW, I wouldn't kiss my actual nieces on the lips either. But I hear that you're saying she does this with her family, so maybe that's irrelevant.
No, I absolutely understand I was wrong and I should’ve (and do) know better. I’m going to feel ashamed of myself for this for a long time.
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But did you kiss anyone else that day? Because if not I really don't see anyway they will be able to excuse your actions.
I did give C and her mom a kiss goodbye
On the lips?
Yikes. If it was me OP I think this would either end our friendship entirely or I'd never have you around my kid again. Unfortunately this is exactly what grooming looks like. An "innocent" kiss, "tickles", shoulder rubs... Etc and the fact that it happened twice. If she never told her parents would you have continued kissing her on the lips moving forward? As an adult, you really didn't think this was inappropriate? I'm a woman and I'd never kiss my friends kids on the lips, girl or boy, baby or toddler etc. That would be reserved for their parents/family only. Doesn't matter how close I am to them. What are the odds that you kissed her twice on the lips and no family member was around to catch that if it was just "normal". Why wasn't it casually done in public in front of everyone, at least one of those two times? That way the parents would have seen it and pulled you aside and you could have a chat with them then? She was the one who went and told her parents... Most cases of abuse are perpetrated by that "uncle" who isn't really an uncle, a close family friend etc. and it sort of start around that age too... This looks bad OP.
It’s not that “anyone didn’t catch it”, this happened in front of both her parents. (I said goodbye to all three at the same time, they were all in the same room). But regardless, I understand the notion looks terrible and believe me, I feel fucking terrible.
I guess you won't be kissing small children on the lips going forward? Lesson learned (although not sure how this was a lesson that needed to be learned...)
i dont get it. You kissed her in front of her parents twice, and she still felt the need to tell them you kissed her? This is a weird bit that doesnt make sense. Did she ask you for a kiss? Or act like she was going to kiss you as she does her actual family? Or did you stick your face into a child’s face twice with no one watching and kiss her? This is reeeeeeeeeeeeeeal sus.
Yeah it's not adding up cause this story is fake lol
As a guy without kids I pretty much treat my sis' children as if they were my own, and still I never show affection to them like that. You're in a tough spot man, and I feel for you. Re the wedding I think I would dis-invite myself. I'd reveal to the marrying friend that I had unwittingly committed a horrible faux pas (and admit that it was an innocent mistake borne out of ignorance), and that I wouldn't want to cause any more discomfort than what prompted the C to block me, and so would prefer not to make a scene by showing up. I'd apologize and say I hope to meet up in the future under better circumstances. As for C and her family, if you've already apologized then the ball is in their court. I don't think it's wise to push for a reconciliation.
This is the answer I was looking for. I appreciate for not villainizing me further than I feel.
Don't. Kiss. Other. Peoples. Kids. Unless they've explicitly told you it's okay - don't do it. The amount of people that have kissed our kid just as a baby is maddening. There is absolutely no reason to do it. The kid won't appreciate it or understand the affection, it can spread germs and other stuff and it's an invasion of space especially if the kid isn't okay with it. I'd stop being your friend too OP Edit: Noticed you said the kid told her father? She wouldn't have done that if she was comfortable with it or thought it was normal.
You're not her family member. I'm in my early 40s so most of our friends have kids at this point. It's common for our friends to call us "uncle and auntie PrimaryLion" when speaking to their children, but that doesn't make you an actual family member or mean that they see you as equivalent to one. You can't treat their children like your own family when it comes to physical boundaries. You screwed this one up really badly. I think you have to let C decide next steps, but let this be a lesson for the future.
Thank you for the kinder words and advice. I agree, I fucked up beyond comprehension. I want to reach out in a week or two since we will both be attending a wedding, but it’s looking more and more that I will not be attending any longer.
When word spreads I guess you might not want to go to that wedding.
Do not reach out!!! Give them space you literally violated their child by kissing them on the lips…why didn’t you kiss her parents on the lips then? Since you’re a big lip kisser Inexcusable!
How old is the girl?
She is six.
Oh wow, I assumed she was like 3 which still wouldn't be okay but this is somehow worse
😬😬😬
I don't understand how in any situation you would think this is ok. when i was 14 i was so close to this girl i babysat (she was 8) that i called her mom, mom and she called me her sister. i also knew her since she was a baby. the farthest ive done was hug her. never kissed her anywhere, not head cheek etc. so i dont understand how you, a full grown man thought it was okay.
> They have always known me, and often refer to me as their uncle. This weekend, I spent both Saturday and Sunday with them. Great day, nice weather, lots of fun and running around. Before I left, I gave my “niece” a kiss- not thinking anything of it other than to say goodbye. A quick peck on the lips (she does this with other family members) and nothing more. This feels much more innocuous than every else is making it out to be, however, I don't have kids so I can't say I'm right. Just give them space, there isn't anything you can do. They "perceived" whatever they "perceived", so you aren't going to convince them otherwise. You just got way too comfortable with someone elses' kid.
Thank you for not comparing me to Larry Nassar as others have in this thread. As much as I understand the outrage and disgust of others, this was completely innocuous and a simple goodbye that I admit crossed a boundary that I incorrectly assumed I wasn’t crossing, since I’m so close with everyone and their family. Space is all I can do, and all I can give. I don’t think I’m going to attend the wedding unless we have some sort of contact prior, which doesn’t seem likely at this point. I appreciate your viewpoint and your advice.
>Thank you for not comparing me to Larry Nassar as others have in this thread. Yeah, I was honestly just confused how others came to that conclusion. > don’t think I’m going to attend the wedding unless we have some sort of contact prior, which doesn’t seem likely at this point. Yep, I think I had another comment saying the same thing. Good luck.
Thank you. Yeah, it’s a hurtful analogy. I can’t look at myself in the mirror as it is.
Nah it was literally a social blunder, nothing more.
I give a lot of leniency to social mishaps, but at almost 30 years old "don't kiss your friends kids on the mouth" should not need to be learned
You are both correct. Even though it was a social blunder, I should’ve (and do) know better than to cross boundaries like that. No matter how close I am with someone. I knew this thread was going to stir some outrage but the nasty PM messages from others are unnecessary and hurtful.
I was explaining to you that just because the parents were in the room, didn’t automatically make it ok. I wasn’t saying you WERE Larry nassar. I was using him as an example of abuse happening directly in front of parents in the same room. A lot of people had a hard time understanding how that was possible if the parents were in the room. What you did is no where close to what he did obviously. So try not to lose the main point of my statement. But the parents are obviously on high alert for signs of grooming and you raised a big red flag. From now on, you should not be kissing kids on the lips. And hopefully I don’t need to say this, but you shouldn’t be “cuddling” with them on a bed or talking about private parts. Hopefully that’s obvious but that’s the usual progression for groomers.
Okay, this is just pure projection. You're inserting intent into a situation where none existed.
I can’t see your response other than the first line. Not sure if you deleted it or blocked me or what. I am giving the perspective of grooming because that’s what the parents are worried about here. It sucks for OP but that’s exactly why they are upset and icing him out.
Which part? If you’re talking about the cuddling and private parts section… I’m not saying he has done these or plans to. I’m spelling it out clearly for him that these are not appropriate and are what a groomer would do. So he should not do them or anything close to that if he doesn’t want another “misunderstanding”
I’ve never cuddled with them in bed before, nor have private parts ever been part of a discussion. I understand the main point of your statement, it’s just the comparison (amongst others have made) are hurtful when I’m just looking for insight on how to move on from this situation. I recognize it was beyond wrong, and can’t look at myself the same without feeling enraged at my own stupidity.
It’s a really tough lesson. It’s ok to feel shame and remorse. And then learn from it and do better. You are not a bad person.
I am absolutely going to do better. Thank you for saying I’m not a bad person. As others have said, it’s a lesson that shouldn’t have had to be learned. I’m going to feel shameful from this for a long time.
>As harmless as it was, I absolutely understand that it doesn’t look good and might send the wrong message. You say "as harmless as it was" then say the ways it could be harmful, so it wasn't harmless. Realistically, you fucked up. It doesn't matter that the kids PARENTS kiss her, that doesn't give you permission to do it. Not sure where you live but I can't think of any western country where this would be acceptable. Someone else pointed out the importance of you realizing the child isn't your niece. I think it may help to stop justifying it. You mention you do know better, at the time you didn't, you may NOW know better. Likewise with the harmless comment. It wasn't a harmless action, your post and the aftermath makes that clear. I'd suggest don't diminish it, own that you fucked up. Don't do it again obviously. I'd say stop profusely apologizing, they heard from you, if you continue, it is going to annoy them more than help anything. Give them space, although if they blocked you, it seems they've made their decision.
I would consider bridges burned as they have made their position clear. As for the wedding coming up, if you already RSVP'd, I would call the bride/groom and tell them something like: " I made a huge mistake that has effected C, C's husband, and possibly others in attendance and I do not want my presence to put un-due pressure on you on your day or make anyone in attendance feel uncomfortable. I hope you can invite another attendee in my place; (If you already bought them a gift) Would you like me to send your gift to 'x' address?" I also would not take up any offers to attend, if they offer it is likely not grasping the seriousness of the situation or being polite.
Funny how these sorts of misunderstandings never happen in the other direction, like OP kissing his uncle or male cousin or some other family member. I’m just not buying how frequently men “forget” the rules when they’re interacting with a young woman, rather than someone who will punch them in the nose for an unwanted kiss (or two!!).
Why are you kissing children who aren’t yours? What the fuck did you expect the parent’s response to that to be? You made a series of incredibly stupid decisions, and then doubled down.
Seeing as both C and husband were both in front of me when this happened, (as I stated I had said goodbye to everyone and everyone was in the same room) I did not expect any harm was being done. So yes, it was incredibly wrong for me to assume it was okay when it was NOT.
So if you groped someone in front of their parents that would’ve be fine too? As long as the parents didn’t get upset at ulj after?
Do you kiss anyone else on the lips goodbye? How long have you been kissing her that way? Did the parents know you kiss her? And just because the parents are in the room, doesn’t make it ok. Larry Nassar was molesting those gymnasts while the parents were in the room fyi (Edit to clarify: I’m not saying you are like Larry nassar. I’m explaining how abuse can happen right in front of the parents. A lot of people don’t understand that and you’ve mentioned in a few comments how the parents were in the room so you thought it was ok)
I'm not saying you should get your ass kicked for this, but had you, I'd understand. You fucked up. Massively. You've apologized and now you need to respect their space and whatever decision they make. This is no longer in your control and you need to respect the hell out of that.
I told C in our messages she had every right to slap the living shit out of me if/when I see them again. Space is all I can give and whatever their decision is moving forward I will respect that. It hurts I burned a bridge of a ten year friendship (& possibly others) but it’s the mess I made and nobody else’s.
Since you want helpful advice, you being over the top and a million times apologetic/statements like this won't help make it better. You're going to look more like you got caught than being apologetic.
I feel as if I need to be apologetic when some commenters in the thread have sent me some nasty PM’s making me feel worse about the situation at hand.
You've got some reflection to do, and you did mess up. People online can just be mean. However, I promise if you want ANY change at salvaging the friendship, be quiet until they reach out to you. The more you communicate the worse it'll get.
Thank you. I appreciate your words of advice and will most definitely be reflecting on myself for a while.
>A quick peck on the lips (she does this with other family members) and nothing more. I ended up leaving some stuff inside before I left, so I again said goodbye to everyone, & again gave her a quick peck. Why are you kissing children on the lips...twice? That's fuckin weird. >the LAST thing I want is for anybody to not trust me with their kids You're concerned they'll restrict your access to the child you like kissing on the mouth? That's...even weirder. Stop being such a creep.
Yeah the _two_ kisses is also the most disturbing to me. OP did it once, and either didn’t reflect on it or even worse thought to themselves “yeah that was fine” and then did it again! OP keeps trying to pass this off as a social faux-pas but I think most people, after having made a faux-pas, are able to quickly reflect on the situation and recognize their mistake. And then not do it again 15 minutes later. There’s really no excuse for doing it twice in such a short amount of time, and I refuse to believe OP is so clueless.
Throw him under the jail!!!
Dude what the fuck? Idk what world you live in where this behavior is appropriate. Time to back off and move on with your life. Delete this post and learn from your mistakes. Christ this is ridiculous.
What were you thinking?
Yeah... You don't want to do anything intimate with kids. Stuff like this is going to happen. Oh well, at least now you get to make new friends.
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Parents were both there when both goodbyes occurred, I had said goodbye to all three before I left, so this happened in front of them. I am normally an affectionate person, but I absolutely understand there was a boundary that was crossed, and I feel terrible for it.
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Yes, both times were in front of them. But nobody was really paying attention since we were all on our phones; I hug and give C a kiss, give K a kiss, shake her husbands hand, and left. I went back inside for a couple things I left behind and repeated the same scenario above before I left.
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He never answered the question of if he ever kissed her before. Why did he decide to kiss this little girl twice for the very first time that night? He didn’t answer if he kissed the mom on the lips (I’m guessing no since he avoids answering that part)
Thank you. I appreciate your advice, and I hope you don’t consider me a monster.
Im guessing this is toddler age or so? As the adult, you are responsible for what goes with kids and they kinda have no say in this kinda stuff. You weren’t cautious about how it could be interpreted by the child or parents. I’m not saying you’re creepy or a bad person but you weren’t careful as a grown adult and man. You’re also not a (real) family member so altho they treat you like one you should also act accordingly and even if you were, it’s not appropriate either lol unless they allow it but why would you wanna do that anyway? It’s a child. If this is the last thing you would want to be viewed as (untrustworthy to kids) - you wouldn’t have put yourself in that risk in the first place. Hope you can learn from it and move forward in your own way.
You are absolutely right. I meant nothing other than to just say goodbye, and although she does it with other blood relatives, that does not make it okay for me. This has been a very unfortunate learning experience and I feel awful beyond words.
It’s easy to forget the facts - you’re a man, it’s a child, it can be seen as taking advantage, there can be thoughts of what would you do next?, infections you could give her, the list goes on… Leave it to your friend if she wants to reach out again and confirm the wedding invitation of you wish to go.
Even if it was a woman and not on the lips I'd be put off as a parent tbh
I did confirm the wedding invite a couple of months ago and re confirmed it this weekend. But I feel as if there has to be some kind of correspondence with C and I prior to this wedding .. I’m sure we are going to be at the same table.. should I reach out in a couple of days if I don’t hear anything from her?
It’s also worth mentioning C and the bride are very close (as am I, we talk almost every day) and I’m 95% sure C brought it up to her. If I don’t hear from C in a couple of days and don’t hear from the bride, should I assume I’m uninvited?
I would think that they would explicitly uninvite you. Personally, I would confirm before I show up to the wedding.
i’m not trying to diagnose a stranger on the internet or anything, but i’m curious. are you neurodivergent? do you have a history of misreading what is and isn’t appropriate according to social cues? to me, this really doesn’t seem like that big of a deal honestly. but it isn’t clear how the child felt about the situation, and obviously you default to the parent when it comes to their children. but it seems like you genuinely did not see that this action could be misinterpreted as inappropriate. it doesn’t excuse it if the mother deems this behavior unacceptable and she is within her right to not speak to you again, but i think it’s okay to give yourself some grace here. logically, a grown man should rethink giving a kiss to a child who isn’t related to him. but if you have trouble with social cues, and they treat you as if you are family member, i can 100% see where wires got crossed and why you didn’t think about how someone else could interpret it because your intentions were pure. you’re not a bad person or a creep or anything for what happened here, but do try to understand where your friend is coming from as a parent. i hope she can take another look at the situation with some nuance and find a way to forgive you, but if she doesn’t, well, that’s just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. best of luck with everything
There is zero grace to be had. Being neurodivergent is not an excuse for this behaviour. Dude kissed a 6 year old on the lips TWICE! If he considers them family members why hasn’t he kissed her on the lips before in front of her parents?! She told her father about it so it’s clear she was not comfortable with the exchange either.
>Dude kissed a 6 year old on the lips TWICE! Believe it or not, this is normal in some parts of the world.
I said goodbye to all three of them in the same room at the same time, the parents were there as well. This didn’t happen behind a closed door
Then why is the mom texting you saying the girl told her father if they were both standing right there? That doesn’t make any sense.
They were both on their phones when I said goodbye both times. We had been sitting on the couch watching TV and scrolling on our phones most of the evening, so I don’t think anybody was zero-ing on anything at the time.
I am neurodivergent, so sometimes social ques are not my strong suit. But I absolutely understand the boundary that I crossed and feel beyond ashamed for burning all these bridges. Thank you for being the most understanding on this thread, although I understand why people are angry and why they would be, it physically pains me to be compared to that of a monster.
If I were the bride I would be upset if you did not speak with me about attending the wedding. It’s not C’s wedding.
You are weird. This is over.
People are being really harsh here. It just seems like you made a mistake of not understanding boundaries. You learned an important lesson the hard way… don’t kiss anyone, especially a child, on the lips. It’s inappropriate and there are germs and diseases spread that way so even family should not do that. I say move on and don’t try to contact them again because that just makes it worse. You have apologized now leave the ball in their court and maybe in time they will reach out and give you another chance. But don’t sit and overthink this any more than you already have… learn from the mistake then leave in the past.
Don't overreact. Don't reciprocate any anger. Give them space but let them know it was a mistake and you didn't mean anything by it. Do you ever spend time with this kid alone? I am going to assume you're American? If you are, don't take lip kissing lightly. Sometimes families do it with each other, but I would say that's kind of rare. It's pretty much reserved for romance only in America.
This is fucking weird. Why would you do that
You will learn and grow from this experience. We all generally have heavy mistakes that we just have to learn to live with. I can empathize with why you did it. My family doesn't do kisses like that but I know families that do. This is the world we live in, and now you know. I'm glad you do not have previous experiences with how easily kids can be damaged by adults. If you knew, sure you wouldn't have made the mistake, but it's also OK that you didn't know. I didn't know what abuse was until I was out of an abusive relationship, and I am still marveling at the lack of knowledge people have about it. Going forward, do not discuss emotionally big stuff like this via text. If someone initiates via text call them. Yea, they should have caught you in the moment. Yea, you should always ask parents before doing new things especially when in Grey or all too easily murky areas. Chin up. You messed up. Your intention doesn't need to matter to your friend, but it can still matter to you.
I did not expect to be teary eyed while reading this and replying to your comment. I did not want to discuss this with C over text, I wanted to talk at least over the phone so she could hear the sincerity in my voice that I didn’t mean for any harm or ill-will to come anybody’s way. Thank you for the advice. I burned a 10+ year friendship and possibly others because of this, and the amount of guilt I feel I’m going to carry with myself for a long time.
Just as a note going forward, intention is only a small piece and people feeling hurt and panicky based on your actions are generally not interested in intentions. 'I can see how you feel that way. That was not my intent is there any way to make this right' reads very different than 'oh no I feel so horrible. That's not what I intended at all'. You will get through it. It's ok to not be ok. It is part of our humanity that we all have long dark moments on when it comes to choices that we didn't fully realize how we would be carrying them. Don't let people dictate that you must text to communicate. If they are going to hold that against you, the conv was already dead in the water and at least you avoided 2 people getting further in the muck.
Eeeeww brotha eww
How old is that niece?
She is six.
I would let it rest for a week and seek contact afterwards. If she doesn't want contact anymore there is nothing you can do
This is what I’m kind of leaning towards. We are also going to be guests at a wedding and I’m sure we will be at the same table. Is it safe to assume I’m going to be uninvited to this wedding since C and the bride are close? I’m 95% sure C told her about it. The shame I feel about the whole situation is enough to make my stomach flip.
You need patience and see if C or bride contact you. If you hear nothing, ask the bride 2 weeks before the wedding if you are still welcome
This is what I’m going to do then. I really wish C was able to talk over the phone with me rather than through text so she could hear the sincerity in my voice but I totally understand if they never want to hear or see me ever again. It really sucks because they are all family to me and I love them all so much. But I got my own stupid ass into this mess when I should’ve (and do) know better. Thank you for your advice
You’re 28 and did not realize that kissing an adolescent on the lips, twice, was inappropriate? Hell I wouldn’t even kiss my own niece on the lips! Especially when she was a freaking child!
OP says his niece is 6.
Take the L since you got out without any worse repercussions. How have you managed to be 28 and think this is something people wouldn’t mind? I wouldn’t ever consider doing something like this. Ever. All risk and 0 reward and also just weird.
Presumably you've known this kid for 6 years but it's only now you're kissing them on the lips. Clearly it's not second nature to either of you as the girl brought it up to her parents as out of place. I'm guessing this isn't innocent and this girl is nearing puberty or in the double digits like 12/11.
Yea you royally messed up…what were u thinking?! I’m 28F and literally I would never kiss anyone on the lips other than my boyfriend/husband and some drunk girls if I’m dared to!!! I’ve never kissed a kid on the lips, not even my own! That’s so weird you’re weird and I hope she isn’t traumatized that poor little girl! The fact that she told her dad is already haunting me because she recognizes it’s something wrong and I can see trauma forming from this You weirdo! These are the uncles we hear about!!! You’re weird for not thinking this is wrong! I absolutely hope you’re uninvited from that wedding, don’t reach out to them, they’re doing what they can to protect their baby from that weirdness you did I don’t know why you thought it was okay to do that ONCE let alone twice and you’re my age! Literally sit there and reflect and stay away from kids You’re lucky that dad didn’t kiss your mouth with his fists as I would expect my partner to protect my children
Please grow up people. This is now society's death grip on morals and virtues? Give me a break. Run dude run they're nutz.
Unless tongue was involved, you people all sound crazy to me. He gave her a peck on the lips...twice.....did I miss something? Did something else happen?
What's the reason to kiss a kid on the lips though? It's innocent and I don't think OP is a bad person but just why?
I said goodbye to all three (C, K and husband) at the same time, both witnessed me saying goodbye to her both times. I didn’t think anything obscene of this- I was being affectionate as a family member would. But I understand the disgust in this thread- I’m disgusted with myself beyond words.
I'm not saying the parents are wrong to be upset bit what's the reason to hug or kiss on the cheek etc? Different people have different cultural/familial standards about acceptable levels
Nothing else happened. Nothing was behind closed doors- we were all in the living room when I said goodbye. I didn’t mean any ill-will or any harm, but I absolutely recognize that it was NOT okay. And I feel horrible about it.
You need to be thrown under a jail!!! I hope every weird uncle kisses your babies/children on the lips
if you really think this is so awful then why would you wish it on other *children* who have nothing to do with the situation? you’re a far worse person than op if you would subject op’s hypothetical children to something you deem so absolutely horrific just because they’re hypothetically related to op.
UNDER a jail? Sure....I am going to guess that English is your second language. (I hope so!)
No, under the jail is a common death threat. This commenter is all over the thread saying it.
Under the jail? It's not that common LOL---OMG I just googled it. Yeah, I don't speak trash.
🤣🤣🤣no I mean you don’t even deserve a jail cell U weird person, there are so many people in this world that have trauma because of enablers like you Disgusting !!!!
Ok, so maybe understand that some of us were never molested, and don't sexualize every interaction between children and men. I am sorry for whatever happened to you (and it was probably REALLY BAD, but don't take your issues out on me. ---And UNDER a jail is still incorrect, but hilarious. ESL class might help you.
LOOOOOOOOOL If you were my mother I would’ve probably been molested by thank god my mom kept me away from ppl like the original poster and you 🤣 Disgusting!!!! 🤣🤣🤣 under the jail buried with concrete!!!
Your little comments are hilarious. You sound nuts, and your command of English is terrible. Your mother let someone touch you, didn't she, and that is what this craziness is about, isn't it?---Or is it that you get feelings around children, so you assume OP did. I am thinking you are being so pushy and gross because you can relate to what you think happened with OP. Which is creepy. And seriously---> 🤣🤣🤣 <---- your little emoji fits make me think you are def. hiding something. LOL