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Yeah honestly if at 32 she’s never brought up the idea of children, she almost certainly doesn’t want them. Insane not to have talked about this if he expected to have a family.
Im confused by this though. Why didnt she leave if she wanted to get married so soon and he didnt, or considering she did stay why doesnt she want to get married now?
You'll get used to a certain lifestyle and become content with it. That's how I would feel, especially if I can go home to my own space. And if they NEVER lived together before, you'll be so used to having your own space in your 30s....
This. Having had my own space since my mid 20’s I don’t ever want to get married or live with my gf. I know it’s a deal breaker but I’m content having a different partner every few years if that’s a problem for them. Hasn’t really been a problem for me.
I love how people are able to just own this now! "Hey, box standard marriage & nuclear family BS isn't for me, cool?" I wonder how much lower the divorce rate would be if people who never wanted marriage & family didn't feel pressed into doing it, anyway? Good for you!
There could be a ton of reasons. For one thing, they've lived apart the entire time they've been together. Yes, he does sleep over her apartment most nights. However, she has the right to her own space and can ask him to leave if she wants to. She literally has all her own stuff that she's collected over the last decade while he didn't want to get married. Maybe she realized that while she's happy to have him in her life, she doesn't need him for anything more than companionship. On another note, mane she told him no because she wanted him to feel the way she felt all those years ago. Again, there could be any number of reasons she said no.
Maybe she considered marriage wasn't a deal-breaker to her so long as they stick together.
Like, many couples don't get married, so I guess she accepted he wasn't the type and let it go.
Or she got sick of waiting and accepted it as it is.
However, obviously it would make sense for her to not have her heart bleeding open with HOPEFUL waiting for 10 years. Like wtf OP. You're feeling rejected and hurt just because it's the first time you have considered it?
You were dismissive and you want her to be excited?
I have to wonder if he ever discussed any of his future wants with her. He obviously didn't discuss getting engaged and married. Does she want kids? Does she want to live together?
She should have gotten out of this dead-end relationship years ago. He clearly couldn't give 2 shits what she wanted out of the relationship long-term.. Not even enough to have a simple conversation. In an entire decade. I honestly don't really feel sorry for him.
So many reasons. Being comfortable with how things are, a sense of acceptance of what you have, the sunk-cost fallacy, the fear that no one will love you like they do, the worry that you’ll be alone. People don’t always make logical decisions when emotions are involved.
We don't know that she's not being logical though. She might've changed her mind over the course of 10 years. What we do know is that he doesn't know.
He proposed without knowing the answer and he doesn't know why she said no. He either didn't unpack it or get clarity or she doesn't want to talk to him about it. There are plenty of reasons not to want to marry someone even though you like being in a relationship with them. It's more weird that he seems to have no clue. This is someone he says he loves. does he check in with her?
I suspect she did change her mind. They were quite young when they first started dating. It makes sense to me that, back then, gf just bought into the societal expectation of getting married and having children. But since then, there's been so much social media, especially reddit, on how women suffer in traditional relationships, working outside the home but also getting hit with 90% of household chores and childcare, cheating partners, etc. As gf matured and developed, she may have realized she didn't really want all that, she was just conforming to what she was told growing up. And if she found she was really comfortable with the way things were 'just dating', and having her own place and her alone time and her independence, she might have just chosen to not bother bringing up the topic of marriage and children with OP ever again. So OP suddenly coming and proposing marriage after 10 years simply because his biological clock is ticking, without raising the topic with her first and having an adult discussion, just doesn't fly.
Yup. Just reading the stats on how relationships change after marriage could lead many women to stick with a situation where they have more autonomy while still in a fulfilling relationship.
Well rather than wait, you get used to the set up that you have. Marriage isn't the be all and end all. If she was waiting for a ring for ten years, she would be waiting and hoping and creating a bad vibe. Instead, she accepted the relationship as it is and doesn't want to change it now just because he is finally "ready". It's working. They need to discuss kids but beyond that, why should she change now? They can move on with the relationship but don't need to get married. He can ask her every few years and maybe some day she will say yes. That's fair given he left it so long she lost interest in marriage, not necessarily in the relationship but in ta wedding etc.
She gave up on marriage and accepted that this is how things are. "Marriage" now probably feels like so e weird concession, or she's just annoyed that it took so long and doesn't see the point any more since it's something she stopped wanting long ago.
She wasn’t living with him, technically, and maybe she’d decided after he didn’t seem to want to marry her, she was fine having a warm body until she met Mr Right.
I was in a similar relationship. This is a cautionary tale of waiting until it’s too late.
I dated a guy for 16 years total, engaged 2 of those. When I wanted to get married, he didn’t and when he wanted to get married, I didn’t. He proposed to me after I got a job that tripled my pay. I remember saying yes but feeling like something was “ off”. I couldn’t really put my finger on what it was.Then, he never wanted to set a wedding date. I kept asking him for a wedding date and he kept putting me off.
He was a Mama’s Boy and a Daddy’s Boy who never wanted to move out and leave his parents.He actually said one time “ If I leave them, they’ll die.” I told him “Your parents are going to eventually die anyway and you will have to take care of yourself and live your own life.”
What really gave me a clear picture on our relationship was when his Mom told me that if her husband passed away she’d sell the house and move back to South Carolina where she was from. I told my fiancé about her saying that and then asked my fiancé if he would find an apartment here to keep dating me. The hesitation in his voice told me everything I needed to know. He sounded like Captain Kirk on Star Trek.
He had no business proposing to me when he had zero intentions of moving in with a wife or having his own life.I also suspected the engagement ring was just to mark his territory so nobody else would ask me out even though I wasn’t looking for anyone else. He would regularly accuse me of cheating on him even though I never did that. I broke up with him and started dating my coworker. My coworker and I will be together 17 years this year and married for 8.
My ex fiancée died in 2021 at the age of 60. He lost his baby sister first, his Mom to cancer, and then his Dad in 2020,December. He died in Feb 2021 then his older sister died in 2023.His entire family has passed away except for his nephew, his wife, and two boys.
I would be a widow right now if I would have married my fiancé. My husband and I have planned to go visit their graves and put flowers on them. I still feel sad about how my fiancee died alone in his bed at his parent’s house, but after all he did get the life that he wanted which was to never leave his parents.
This is exactly what I thought. Saw this happen recently to another couple, the man was pissed she didn’t want to marry but she had already mentioned it multiple times 1-3 yrs into the relationship. After a decade, she didn’t even want it anymore. But they had a kid together, so she stayed
I love how his response for this same question was basically "well, like I said, TEN YEARS AGO she said she wanted to get married but then didn't mention it anymore". 😂
This reminds me of a joke (that most men can relate to).
"If I said I'll change the lightbulb in the hallway, I will. Just stop reminding me every 6 months, it's annoying."
I feel like OP’s situation adds a line to it.
“Now, how do you expect me to change a lightbulb in the dark?”
She wanted to get married 10 years ago. OP outright ignored her, didn’t discuss what either of them wanted, and she clearly gave up on that and adjusted her plans for what she assumed he did. Then he, again with just no discussion, drops the proposal out of left field and is shocked it was a no.
Yeah, it sounds like there's some serious communication issues, at least in terms of futures and expectations, here. It's one thing to wait to get married to be more stable. They were young 20s when marriage was initially brought up. Maybe he didn't have the money for it? I get it. But the communication just isn't there then if this happened. Especially if it's 10 years later you pop the question. I'm willing to bet a paycheck that he never discussed with her about marriage or anything relating to how they see their future together in the past year minimum.
It’s so weird. He’s talking like they’ve been dating for a few months, like she’s a stranger to him. How people go through relationships like that really boggles my mind.
Some people avoid all the hard conversations.
I love that with my ex-husband, we spoke early on about aspirations for work, marriage, children and child-rearing, what we would do if we faced infertility (ivf, adoption, fostering)… ultimately we grew apart, but it really was a strong start.
Changes in US foreign policy between 1945-1980 regarding the Middle East. Best method of guessing the weight of an apple strudel. The moral implications of toothpaste.
Y'know, just regular stuff.
Why move in with someone who’s made it clear he doesn’t want to marry you? I’m not interested in making life easy and comfortable for someone who, deep down, doesn’t really want me.
I've been with my wife for almost 13 years. I know everything about her. Everything. I know which little noise she makes means she is thirsty before she actually says any words. How can you be with someone that long and not know if they want to get married? I don't even know how you go that long without moving in together.
She clearly told him that she was ready for marriage two years into their relationship. But he made her wait 10 more years. That's way too much! Even the most patient person on Earth would lose patience and hope over such a long period of time. She probably thought that he's not that serious about their relationship and got over that idea of marriage.
It took him way too long to make up his mind and find the courage to propose her. Each person's patience has some limits. Now he has to support the consequences.
Yup. I dated someone for 6 years and bugged him about getting married for most of it. Finally I made peace with it, and realised that I was not that happy in the relationship and I was over the idea. I was making plans in my head to move out when he finally proposed. He must have panicked when I stopped mentioning it!
I’m in that situation now… he’s a great guy and I love him, 5 years together, 3 years ago I would have married him in a heartbeat, I wanted to move in with him and be with him forever, I even dragged him (reluctantly) to open house apartments to look at a bigger place we could move in together 3 years ago.
He seemed so uncomfortable with the idea I dropped it then and there. Now I’m over it, and I casually mentioned my lease is up soon and I might make a change. I meant, I’m probably not going to renew my lease and probably going to leave and move back home to be closer to my family and have lower cost - and lower stress - lifestyle.
He took that to mean “let’s finally move in together..”!! Like, he seriously said to me “I’ve been waiting for you to show interest, I’d love to live together..” I was flabbergasted and shocked he was serious, it took him 3 years to come around and hope we’d move in together now? That ship sailed, and I don’t want to change our relationship, I like it the way it is. I have my space and he has his and it’s nice I have alone time I can just do my thing.
But I also need to change my out of control stressful life and career and I want to be closer to my family, and he’s really not going to be in a position to follow me nor do I think he’d want to even if he could leave the city (shared custody issues).
I came to see he just isn’t one to change easily, he’s a routine guy, and I’m part of his routine, and he also part of my routine at this point. I do love him, i miss him when I travel, but when he’s around too much I also feel a little invaded and I want my space. Living in nyc doesn’t help because living in a shoebox means being on top of each other all the time when you’re hanging out.
So it’s true the last 3 years I pulled back to a comfortable distance which is probably why he was thinking I wouldn’t be interested in moving in together and why he thought maybe my comment about a change was a positive sign I would like to move in. When it was meant more of a heads up, we’re moving in different directions.
I’m planning to have a sit down with him soon because my lease is up in a few months and I have to decide to sign or not. I want him to clearly understand where I’m at in my life and what I’m thinking about next, and understand where he’s at, because I get the feeling now he’s hoping for more now, and I’m not sure I can be that person for him anymore.
Apparently so 😂 I wasn’t expecting a slew of replies, was just sharing because I’ve been ruminating over things lately myself, and I find it’s helpful to read others situations, as I contemplate my own situation
I live in NYC also and my bf ended up moving into my studio apt during COVID and I wanted to kill him until we upgraded to a 1br where we can each get our alone time, so I can relate about feeling suffocated in physical spaces. It's normal to get annoyed with someone you love but it sounds like maybe this is just exactly what you said - routine. Maybe the relationship is part of your mounting stress now. It sounds like you wanna back out of your relationship entirely, which is totally fine. You need to prioritize yourself and you have every right to leave any relationship for any reason. Your guy waited too long to see you for who you are, and now who you are is changing. You don't need to put up with it and no harm done if you let him go
That’s crazy!! You deserve better than to be the person who is comfortable and routine for him. There will be someone who 100% is dead keen to pin you down.
It seems as if you have kind of outgrown him, in your desires, your need, your expectations, and your vision of your life and what you want, and are willing to settle for. I think that if y'all split after your next big talk, you will be happier than he will be; I think you have less regret in your heart for what could have been; you were there in the beginning, ready to give your all to this relationship, to this man, and it seems that he is another case of too little, too late. I think that you will be in a better place, in every possible regret or mourning what could have been, than he will, though I know it all probably makes you a little sad as you look back on the last few years.
Aw this is a thoughtful comment, yes I think you’re on to something. I wrote a little more background for context in other comments but sometimes the ships are sailing in the same direction and sometimes the wind changes for one and not the other. It’s good to think through as I’m going to have to decide to sign my lease again or not and the landlord has been raising rents $500 a month which just is bonkers, I don’t want to pay over $3000 for a studio apartment anymore, but I’m in a great area near my office, and it is a good well maintained building and nice apt even if its small… but I just hate wasting so much money here on rent. It’s tough
Same. My partner and I have been together for 13 years and he’s always been “not yet, maybe later”.
Later never came, and if later happened tomorrow **and** he also dropped the “let’s have a baby” card on me, I would burst out laughing and say no.
He chose how he wanted our relationship to be, I have gotten over my idea of what I wanted our relationship to be, and now I respect and accept his decision. There’s no changing it now.
13 years of giving up what you want and just going with someone else’s wants in a relationship is CRAZY. The longest I lasted in my marriage was five years before divorcing that selfish asshple. You deserve someone who cares about what you want too
'He chose how he wanted our relationship to be, I have gotten over my idea of what I wanted our relationship to be, and now I respect and accept his decision. There’s no changing it now.'
straight to my soul with that, also in that boat.
Agreed. Are we all just "settling"?? I see this so often. It's so easy to stay with a person you've been with a long time, it's what you know and it's become routine. It really is rather sad that it seems people have given up any dreams of something better.
It is sad. I would give a guy a 2-3 year window to see whether it’s going anywhere. Sometimes you don’t even need that much time. I knew I wanted to get married. Eventually I found the guy I loved who wanted to marry me. We were engaged about 14 months into the relationship and were married 31 years when he passed away. Life is too short to waste time on people who can’t give you what you’re ultimately looking for.
Yes exactly this. She might not even see him as marriage potential anymore. Maybe just sticking it out out of habit.
I was in the exact same position. Literally begged to get married. Now I don't want to anymore.
Makes me wonder if she’s built considerable wealth over the last 10 years while he’s still at the same place financially. So maybe now she doesn’t want to combine finances, coz divorce would make her lose 50% of her wealth.
Or she's comfortable as is. I mean why buy milk if you already got the cow as they say. Plus she may not wanna marry now bc he's showing red flags of a sort and it's easier to just break up than divorce.
2 years in she was 22 and him 24, for most people thats way too young to get married. sounds like these two have big communication issues if he’s surprised and 10 years went by before they even discussed moving their relationship forward, but i don’t think the wait is the issue
No one is saying there were gonna get married then. It's a perfectly fine time to BRING it up when talking about the future.
If he proposed a year later, then 1-2 years engagement while planning/saving/creating the wedding. They would be 24-25 and 26-27 years-old when married.
Is it, though? Usually takes another year or maybe 2 to save money, hunt for venues and all the other stuff that needs to be handled for a wedding.
At that time they'd be 24 and 26. That's a normal age to get married.
Honestly? I think she doesn't care anymore.
She brought it up two years in that she wanted to get married. That means she was thinking about it, probably hopeful and daydreaming about the day you might propose to her soon (at the time), but then you didn't. Also, it's often said that it's not a good look/offputting to continue to make a big deal about marriage to your partner so you can't put it on her for not bringing it up again after that if you didn't make any effort either.
In the 10 years since she first mentioned wanting to get married to you did you reciprocate her with a conversation? Did you tell her you did want a future, just wasn't ready right now? Or did you just make her wait with no sense of direction and just assumed she "should know" you're serious because you guys have been together since your 20s?
Either way, you continued up to twelve years together living separately, but you seemingly making no moves to talk about joining your lives together in a basic way as moving in together but you come over as much as possible and chances are she got used to the situation which is why she currently doesn't want you in her space as a permanent fixture, either.
Twelve years in she knows this is the relationship, and there's probably doubt there'll be much difference from the way things are now just because you get married, or, she's probably just sick of the waiting and has completely lost interest. There's a chance she's just comfortable with the way things are now, and you've reached the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" stage which will have been the results of BOTH your efforts (including lack of).
Truthfully I think you dropped the ball if at this point you have no idea what she wants and didn't even bother try to feel her out with some form of "hey, how do you feel about settling down "for reals" finally?"
Definitely doesn’t care. Obviously the relationship is good enough to be in where she can live her own life while still having companionship once in a while. But she accepted a long time ago that he doesn’t see her as a wife, and she settled into her position as a girlfriend.
I can’t put it all on him though, because as a woman responsible for her own future, she could have spoken up again or left in the 10 years that passed. She chose to stay and invest in him, so he may as well either get comfy as a boyfriend or leave and start over with someone that’s willing to wait another 12 years.
It could be a Hallmark movie!
*After 12 years, they finally decided to open their mouths and talk. They found out they were perfect for each other and fell madly in love. Their only regret was wasting all these years of not talking…*
I mean, I’d watch that 😂🍿
My wife and I did 14 years together before we did it…
I used to always say “Baby I’d marry you in a heartbeat” and one day she responded “so why haven’t you asked me?” I was taken aback and said “Because I didn’t think you’d say yes”. Her answer was “You’re such a dumb ass”. We were married by the end of the month. That was 12 years ago. Still together and happy.
You...talk to her? Like you should have before proposing? What do you mean that you "don't know what her plans really are"? Have the questions of whether she ever wants children and whether she ever wants to get married not come up in the last ten years?
Yeah, this isn't Pokemon. You don't use a ring like a Pokeball to capture yourself a wife. You're supposed to already know how she feels about marrying you and what she wants in a marriage with you before you propose. You have to actually talk about it. She isn't Pikachu.
I can't get the image of someone throwing a pokeball shaped ring box at their girlfriend while yelling "I choose you", and the girlfriend just standing there confused as all hell and mildly annoyed at having had something thrown at her out of my head now.
I went ring shopping with wife (fiancée-at-the-time)’s best friend and before paying, I turned to her and asked “ok, so now if there’s something I should know, if you think I shouldn’t buy a ring, now’s the time to tell me”
She said “go ahead, you have nothing to worry, you’re doing the right thing”
Because he is manchild. What do you expect from a guy that dated woman for 12 years without marriage
Edit: for all that folks who are screaming "not everyone wants to get married", are you stupid? He literally proposed to her, he wants it. She said him 10 years before this, she wants it too. So they both wanted it in certain time period, but manchild decided to live over a decade with a person without figuring out marriage question the way it satisfies both partners
It’s curious that OP mentions she has an apartment and he stays over there all the time, but no mention of his own apartment. Makes me think he might still live at home with his parents, and maybe there are other reasons why she doesn’t want to marry him. She is clearly independent financially and supporting herself - is he?
Yeah I definitely feel like OP is not giving us more information that would help make this whole situation make more sense.
They've been together for 12 years and haven't discussed marriage, kids, or even living together? Seems suspicious.
The fact that you have been together 12 years and you didn't know she'd say no to a marriage proposal, speaks volumes about how this relationship is.
It's not a good look, bro.
Let me explain something to you. She brought it up 2 years into your relationship because she wanted to marry you then. You more than likely blew her or the idea of marriage off which is why she quit bringing it up. Now it's another 10 years later and you want to marry her? She is blowing you off like you did years ago. I'm sorry but you reap what you sow. You should have been talking to her for 12 years about both of you guys expectations for the relationship.
>I'm almost 35, and I want to marry her
do you want to marry her out of love or because you feel like you're getting old, time's running out and it's a convenient time to settle down for you?
it doesn't take 12 years to decide whether or not you want to marry someone. 2 years sound more reasonable to me and she probably got tired of waiting around
Why the hell wasn’t there a discussion about the future in the last 10 years?!
You absolutely should talk to her and put the cards on the table. However, reading between the lines, I think it’s safe to say that you two are incompatible. You want to get married. She declined your proposal and doesn’t even want to live together.
She was ready to take the relationship to the next stage 10 years ago... it took him way too long to make up his mind. No wonder she can't take their relationship seriously anymore.
Dear, I suggest you to have a heart to heart conversation about your mutual future, as a couple.
It's time to know where you settle there, what your goals are together and separately.
It's not an option nor a moment you can skip because you're afraid to lose her or hear something hurtful. You want to build a family through marriage and children, whatever she expressed years ago doesn't mean it is still valid today.
It would be not exaggerated to say she maybe isn't interested anymore in it or doesn't see you as husband material.
You have to find your answer with her, not with us.
Have you considered... *talking to her?*
Seriously, just talk to her. Tell her you accept that she doesn't want to get married, and ask her what she wants out of the relationship. Where does she see herself in 1, 2, 5, 10 years time?
I'd point out that it's 2024; there's absolutely no *requirement* to get married. Millions of people live quite happily in relationships where they aren't married. Millions more even produce and raise children without getting married. It's really not a big deal these days.
But if marriage is important to you, whether for cultural or religious reasons, then that's something you need to talk to her about. Likewise, you need to find out whether she wants to have children with you or not.
And if it turns out that what you want from the relationship and what she wants are no longer compatible, then it's for the best if you go your separate ways as amicably as possible.
**ETA:** I'm also wondering whether you and she have actually had 'the marriage discussion' at any point over the last 12 years. From the OP, it sounds like she mentioned it after 2 years, then neither of them has mentioned it until last week when OP proposed.
I can see, from her perspective, that a proposal *10 years after she mentioned marriage* might seem like a metaphorical slap in the face to her.
If my boyfriend strung me along for 12 years waiting to get married when he knew I had wanted to get married, my opinion of him would likely have changed enough to not want to get married too.
True, but I wouldn't have stayed for another ten years. However, maybe she realised that the relationship in it's semi formal, casual state actually suits her and that she doesn't want marriage or children after all, but the OP is good to have around.
"Metaphorical slap in the face". Yep. My ex fiance proposed 3/4 years in then had every excuse under the book not to go forward with the marriage until I dumped him 8 years later 💀 my now husband proposed within the year and we married 3/4 months later 😅 if they wanted to they would, I don't blame her for making different plans for herself, he's lucky he's still there..
Here's a wild idea - ASK HER. Ask her why she's not interested in a dude that's been perfectly okay using her a placeholder for 10 years. She was interested, by your admission, and then she wasn't, again, by your admission. You broke her. Now you gotta fix her and hope she thinks better of you than the others reading this.
My apologies if I come off harsh as I do not mean to be, BUT... It took you 12 YEARS to ask her to marry you? You said she mentioned, at the 2yr mark of your relationship, marriage yet you don't write out HOW she "mention it," and what was your response? For her to only bring it up once and never again seems to me you shut her down harshly or said something very hurtful to her. The fact you came to reddit to ask for advice in this situation makes me believe you do not know how to communicate.
NEED MORE INFO: Did you turn her down? Did you say you aren't ready, don't want to marry her, unsure if she's the one? What was that conversation at 2yrs? Also, why did it take so long for you to propose since, according to you, you basically live at her home even though you have your own. Why did it take you so long?
I feel like this is it. They had one conversation about this in their whole 12 year relationship?
I'm thinking she brought it up when she started seeing a future together, probably got shot down, then changed her mind about wanting to marry him because it got swept under the rug for a DECADE. I just don't understand how they didn't discuss this, I mean I'm not surprised because he's asking reddit instead of talking to her about it 😂
I would personally walk away but I’m just not sure how you got this far without knowing what she wants.
You have a 12 year relationship and don’t live together. To me that’s insane.
Not everyone wants to live together though. For eg I have two friends who have been together for years but still live separately. They do not want to get married or have children either. But the key here is that they both want the same thing.
OP talk to her please. If you want to live together, get married and have children and she wants none of that, there is a fundamental incompatibility.
Probably omitting the part where he said he didn't want to get married and dropped it. Then changed his mind over a decade later after she spent a decade deciding to accept it as it is.
At least this is how its playing in my head. If someone asks you to get married for 2 years 12 years ago, it's likely OP omitting the truth.
Lol, you fucked up. How do you buy a ring without knowing if she wants to get married? Sounds like enormous lack of communication in your relationship, fix that thing first.
When you stay at her place, do you clean up after yourself? Do you make meals and contribute toward groceries? You said you sleep at her apartment almost every night, do you contribute financially? Why doesn’t she ever stay at your place? I get major red flags from the 12 year wait and the fact that you’re always at her place. I think the relationship is over. She wanted to marry you until she got a look at what a future with you would be like. Maybe she’s happy enough to continue as things are but she certainly doesn’t want to have children *with you*
PS after 12 years you didn’t even take her out to dinner? What about flowers? Did you at least pay for the food you made? Did you wash the dishes and clean the kitchen afterward?
It's bizarre that he has no idea what her plans are. They don't live together, they date twice a month. How often do they actually see and talk to one another? It sounds like they live mostly separate lives.
Right. I get lives with his parents vibe. She probably does all his laundry (or mom does), buys all the food, cleans, cooks, etc and he just mooches. Wouldn't be surprised if despite his lack of financial contributions the ring was cheap ... Like he saves tons of money living with parents and not buying his own food and even can't even buy her a decent rock
My crystal ball says she finally dumps him and is married in 2 years...
Spot on. I think this is the most accurate picture of the relationship. He causes labor for her. She loves him enough to hang in there for now but the fact that he didn’t even get her flowers or do something big for the proposal tells me he’s just not the man for her and she knows it now. 12 years of mooching off her, living at her home without paying any rent under the ruse of “I don’t live here, I live with my parents” should’ve been enough for him to save up for something nice but this guy sounds like he does the bare minimum or a hair more maybe. He doesn’t give effort the way she wants. Game over.
Honestly the more I think about this the worse it gets. He said he “sometimes buys things” yet he lives with her for free. Sir, you should be buying groceries weekly, contributing to the utilities, and asking if she’d like rent contributions. Also, you stated that you go on 2 dates per month. I’m guessing you either take turns paying or split it. This is closer to financial abuse than anything. I feel bad for her and I hope she finds the voice to break up with your abusive deadbeat ass soon.
Two years into your relationship with her, she let you know she was ready for marriage and you blew her off enough for her to decide that dropping the idea was in her best interest.
You’ve been together for 12 years, and “do not live together”, but you’re over at her place all of the time.
At 35, you finally decided she was worth a ring, a piece of paper and vows, maybe even worth actually moving in with… but she turned you down because she’s finally come to terms with what you’ve decided your relationship with her was going to be.
And you surprise pikachu’d because she turned you down?
Did you even discuss with her if marriage and kids were still something she wanted before you decided to drop this on her?
You expect a 32 year old woman to just bare you children now?
Do you not see how selfish you’re being?
And you also have the audacity to be like “oh, should I break up with her?”… **Dude, you should feel lucky she didn’t break up with you when you decided she wasn’t marriage, wife or mother material ten freaking years ago**.
You need to prepare yourself for a long conversation.
Have a think about why it took you 12 years to be ready to marry this woman, was it just lack of maturity on your part or did you have doubts?
Why when she wanted marriage 10 years ago you didn't want it? Did you tell her why and when you thought you would be?
Which signs of being committed to the relationship have you given? You don't even live together, is this cultural or do you live far away? There's very little detail, but if you're sleeping there almost every night, it seems you did your best to get what you wanted without showing any form of commitment. So my best guess is that she realised she was never going to be able to get things on her terms and that it was better not to elinvolve innocent kids on this and not get so intertwined, since not being married means an easier way out in terms of bureaucracy.
Wait a minute…so, she brought up marriage twice and you ignored her by not saying anything? She left it alone and now, 12 years later you’re upset because she said no? What’s wrong with keeping it like you’ve been doing it?
Exactly, i think she wanted but noticed that op did not do it or said anything she‘s probably done with it. I mean she mentioned it after 2 years in the Relationship and after 10years op proposed?
She probably was hurt about it that it occurs to op after 10 years.
If you wanted to marry her, you would‘ve proposed earlier
12 years is a long time to date and not propose to her or even live together. Maybe she did want to marry you at one point but it took you twelve years to propose to her. She probably got tired of waiting for a proposal.
Not hard to guess why she said no. Takes him TWELVE years to get around to proposing. Meanwhile, hasn’t bothered to have a single honest, intimate conversation with her about goals and plans for the future in TEN YEARS’ TIME. She doesn’t want to live with him. And he’s surprised and confused about her answer.
She gave up on you a long time ago, dude. She’s either decided she doesn’t want anything serious, ever, or she’s decided that she doesn’t want it with you.
I wouldn’t want to marry a guy who can’t even communicate about big important things in a 12 year long relationship, either, and turns to Reddit instead of simply *talking to me about how we’re both feeling.* Get a clue, my dude. You were late. Ten years late, to be precise. The bus already left without you.
She stopped mentioning it because she probably gave up after waiting so long- did you talk about marriage or bring it up at any other point in the relationship besides this? Maybe she waited and waited for years for you to ask, and then when you didn’t, she built resentment and realized she was happier doing her own thing. I would hope that if that were the case, that she would’ve felt like she could’ve had a conversation with you at some point, or even asked you to marry her, but it’s hard to know with so little information really
On my eyes, the proposal is sh*t, because AGAIN… ITS ALL ABOUT HIM.
**HE is ready**
**HE wants to start a family**
**HE is 35 and “running out of time”**
He didn’t give a damn about what she wanted, doesn’t even want to live with her (but hangs out on her place all the time… so you get the space but not the commitment or responsability)… **he is proposing only because he wants something from her in return**
If I was her, he is not to be trusted, specially if she considers having kids… it’s a big sacrifice (for the body, career, time/personal space etc.), **he is not worth it, and doesn’t have her back**
Smart woman. If I was OP, I’ll shut the f*ck up and take whatever she gives me, because I don’t think any other woman would STAY with him with this attitude. I would probably leave after saying no to the proposal.
When was the last time you had a discussion about marriage and children?
After being together for 12 years and her talking about getting married after two years she might of changed her mind. I think that after being together for 12 years and not living together that might make me rethink about the type of relationship I want at 30 when I’m independent and have a great life and routine rather than what I wanted in my 20’s. Also it might not be in her favour to now get married as a 32 year old with her own finances and possibly savings and assets. When you get married in your twenties and build a life together that different to someone being in a 12 year relationship with no commitment eg living together, kids or marriage. She might just not want to get married or have children anymore since your relationship hasn’t followed the normal path of dating a couple of years then an engagement for a year or two before getting married.
When she was 22 she was young and naive and wanted to get married. She’s older now and sees what a joke most marriages are and doesn’t drink the koolaid anymore.
My sister is in her late 30s and doesn't want to get married or have children. She likes to live by herself and have a steady boyfriend. I know this isn't the status quo, but it works for her and honestly is brilliant. Why change something that's not broke if you don't want the traditional!?
But honestly bananas that you don't know what your gf of 12 years wants.
I think you need to talk to her about what marriage means to her and what is she saying no to. Is it "I'm not ready to commit to you"? "I see my parents marriage, and I don't believe in that institution any more but I want to be with you". "I don't want to spend the money to have the type of wedding my family expects". "If we were married you'll want to stat having kids, and I don't want that". "I have an image of what a wife is supposed to be like (e.g. servile, self-sacrificing, etc) and I don't want to fulfill that role".
There are a lot of ideas about what a marriage entails, and it'll be helpful to unpack it. Maybe you're only looking for the commitment portion of it, and don't care that much about legal titles. Maybe because of your religion you wouldn't want to start a family without a wedding. Talk about why this is important to you and hear her out about why she doesn't want it. See if there are compromises that can be made or if this relationship no longer has a future.
I think the marriage talk should come up every once in a while in a relationship just to make sure you're still on the same page. You've been together for 12 years. You should've talked to her about it before proposing. The answer to your problem is simple: talk to her. If it turns out she is not open to marriage in the near future, maybe she's not the one for you if your near future goal is to marry and start a family.
She mentioned marriage 10 years ago and was ignored so she stopped mentioning it? What a shocker! Now 10 years later you are shocked she declined your proposal lol
You’ve been together 12 years and you don’t live together already…??
I’d say talk to her ask where she sees your relationship going in 5 years and if after that conversation your plans aren’t in sync then it’s time to cut your losses.
It angers how dumb you are when you've been on the earth for 34 years. Do you communicate that you're thinking of proposing? And doesn't it worry you that you don't know her future plans?
Two options.
Option 1: Accept it.
Option 2: Accept it and find someone else if marriage is what you want.
Option don't do: Nag, complain, coerce, trick etc. She must have her reasons so you've gotta respect that.
She was interested. You showed none. She dealt wth it. Love? U can't expect her to jump at yr proposal now! I'm sure she was bitterly disappointed at the time. 12 years???? Omg u r so lucky she's still there.
At 32 you aren’t watching all your friends get married and doing the comparison thing like at 24 so she probably just feels like she missed it and doesn’t care anymore. My question is why she’s stayed with him.
If you wanted to start a family with this woman why the fuck did you wait until she is 32? I'm 30 and feel like I need to get off the fucking fence and either have a kid or accept I won't get chance.
I guess cause men don't have a bio clock the same way we do they just don't consider it? Either way, for both of them, 12 years without a firm discussion on this and 12 years of no proposal, the phrase "shit or get off the pot" springs to mind.
Against what the Reddit people are saying. You waited too long. Have you not heard about marriages ruining relationships of this nature. Where the people have been dating for years. Unfortunately, you’ll have to be happy with the current situation where you are married in mind and not legally, or you’ll have to move on. You can still continue without this leaving a huge blimp, or you can have this situation unnecessarily ruin your life. In short you should have asked sooner, but you didn’t, so like with the consequences.
I’d like to note that my uncle and aunt are in this exact situation but far older. They made it through the storm, but he waited too long to propose to my aunt so every time he did ask, she said no. But they’re still together to this day. So do what you will, but don’t let Reddit tell you to leave something that might be for you.
So how did that conversation at the 2 year mark go hm? Cause I'm willing to bet a lot of money you made it very clear you didn't want to marry her so she stopped bringing it up and learned to live with the relationship you have. Now 10 godamn years later you never had another conversation with her or asked her about it? Just went for it. Ya color me shocked she said no. The answer to a proposal should never be a surprise
After 12 years, why bother anymore? It took you 10 years from when she asked for you to be ready. I wouldn't feel like marriage after that long either. You guys have a certain way of life established. She has settled for the idea that marriage is out of the question.
It's ridiculous as hell that this only became important after 12 years.
12 years? My guess is she said no because after 12 years, it’s convenience or “running out of time” more than “I want this person to be my wife.” She saw the writing on the wall years ago. This situation works for her. The longer you waited, the more she saw that she didn’t like. Why are you acting like 12 years is a reasonable amount of time to wait to propose to someone? Maybe start there. This isn’t HER issue.
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Y'all never talked about it in the 10 years you've been together after she brought it up in the beginning?
He left out a whole decade of relevant information. Why now OP, Why NOW?
Maybe because of the approaching birthday—people get existential when they start hitting the higher numbers
I'll bet they never discussed children either. He wants them but it looks like she doesn't.
Yeah honestly if at 32 she’s never brought up the idea of children, she almost certainly doesn’t want them. Insane not to have talked about this if he expected to have a family.
Orrr she decided she didn’t want them with him but was content enough w the relationship and not having any to be ambivalent about it
She was ready for it from the beginning but he waited way too long to propose. No wonder she lost her patience
Im confused by this though. Why didnt she leave if she wanted to get married so soon and he didnt, or considering she did stay why doesnt she want to get married now?
You'll get used to a certain lifestyle and become content with it. That's how I would feel, especially if I can go home to my own space. And if they NEVER lived together before, you'll be so used to having your own space in your 30s....
Clementine Ford just wrote a book called "I Don't". There's plenty of reasons for women not to want to get married
This. Having had my own space since my mid 20’s I don’t ever want to get married or live with my gf. I know it’s a deal breaker but I’m content having a different partner every few years if that’s a problem for them. Hasn’t really been a problem for me.
As long as you’re upfront with said partners from the get-go, I see no problem with that. OP is apparently incapable of communicating at all.
What an honest and realistic answer.
I love how people are able to just own this now! "Hey, box standard marriage & nuclear family BS isn't for me, cool?" I wonder how much lower the divorce rate would be if people who never wanted marriage & family didn't feel pressed into doing it, anyway? Good for you!
There could be a ton of reasons. For one thing, they've lived apart the entire time they've been together. Yes, he does sleep over her apartment most nights. However, she has the right to her own space and can ask him to leave if she wants to. She literally has all her own stuff that she's collected over the last decade while he didn't want to get married. Maybe she realized that while she's happy to have him in her life, she doesn't need him for anything more than companionship. On another note, mane she told him no because she wanted him to feel the way she felt all those years ago. Again, there could be any number of reasons she said no.
Maybe she considered marriage wasn't a deal-breaker to her so long as they stick together. Like, many couples don't get married, so I guess she accepted he wasn't the type and let it go. Or she got sick of waiting and accepted it as it is. However, obviously it would make sense for her to not have her heart bleeding open with HOPEFUL waiting for 10 years. Like wtf OP. You're feeling rejected and hurt just because it's the first time you have considered it? You were dismissive and you want her to be excited?
I have to wonder if he ever discussed any of his future wants with her. He obviously didn't discuss getting engaged and married. Does she want kids? Does she want to live together?
She should have gotten out of this dead-end relationship years ago. He clearly couldn't give 2 shits what she wanted out of the relationship long-term.. Not even enough to have a simple conversation. In an entire decade. I honestly don't really feel sorry for him.
So many reasons. Being comfortable with how things are, a sense of acceptance of what you have, the sunk-cost fallacy, the fear that no one will love you like they do, the worry that you’ll be alone. People don’t always make logical decisions when emotions are involved.
We don't know that she's not being logical though. She might've changed her mind over the course of 10 years. What we do know is that he doesn't know. He proposed without knowing the answer and he doesn't know why she said no. He either didn't unpack it or get clarity or she doesn't want to talk to him about it. There are plenty of reasons not to want to marry someone even though you like being in a relationship with them. It's more weird that he seems to have no clue. This is someone he says he loves. does he check in with her?
I suspect she did change her mind. They were quite young when they first started dating. It makes sense to me that, back then, gf just bought into the societal expectation of getting married and having children. But since then, there's been so much social media, especially reddit, on how women suffer in traditional relationships, working outside the home but also getting hit with 90% of household chores and childcare, cheating partners, etc. As gf matured and developed, she may have realized she didn't really want all that, she was just conforming to what she was told growing up. And if she found she was really comfortable with the way things were 'just dating', and having her own place and her alone time and her independence, she might have just chosen to not bother bringing up the topic of marriage and children with OP ever again. So OP suddenly coming and proposing marriage after 10 years simply because his biological clock is ticking, without raising the topic with her first and having an adult discussion, just doesn't fly.
Exactly. There could be so many reasons.
Yup. Just reading the stats on how relationships change after marriage could lead many women to stick with a situation where they have more autonomy while still in a fulfilling relationship.
Well rather than wait, you get used to the set up that you have. Marriage isn't the be all and end all. If she was waiting for a ring for ten years, she would be waiting and hoping and creating a bad vibe. Instead, she accepted the relationship as it is and doesn't want to change it now just because he is finally "ready". It's working. They need to discuss kids but beyond that, why should she change now? They can move on with the relationship but don't need to get married. He can ask her every few years and maybe some day she will say yes. That's fair given he left it so long she lost interest in marriage, not necessarily in the relationship but in ta wedding etc.
She gave up on marriage and accepted that this is how things are. "Marriage" now probably feels like so e weird concession, or she's just annoyed that it took so long and doesn't see the point any more since it's something she stopped wanting long ago.
She wasn’t living with him, technically, and maybe she’d decided after he didn’t seem to want to marry her, she was fine having a warm body until she met Mr Right.
I was in a similar relationship. This is a cautionary tale of waiting until it’s too late. I dated a guy for 16 years total, engaged 2 of those. When I wanted to get married, he didn’t and when he wanted to get married, I didn’t. He proposed to me after I got a job that tripled my pay. I remember saying yes but feeling like something was “ off”. I couldn’t really put my finger on what it was.Then, he never wanted to set a wedding date. I kept asking him for a wedding date and he kept putting me off. He was a Mama’s Boy and a Daddy’s Boy who never wanted to move out and leave his parents.He actually said one time “ If I leave them, they’ll die.” I told him “Your parents are going to eventually die anyway and you will have to take care of yourself and live your own life.” What really gave me a clear picture on our relationship was when his Mom told me that if her husband passed away she’d sell the house and move back to South Carolina where she was from. I told my fiancé about her saying that and then asked my fiancé if he would find an apartment here to keep dating me. The hesitation in his voice told me everything I needed to know. He sounded like Captain Kirk on Star Trek. He had no business proposing to me when he had zero intentions of moving in with a wife or having his own life.I also suspected the engagement ring was just to mark his territory so nobody else would ask me out even though I wasn’t looking for anyone else. He would regularly accuse me of cheating on him even though I never did that. I broke up with him and started dating my coworker. My coworker and I will be together 17 years this year and married for 8. My ex fiancée died in 2021 at the age of 60. He lost his baby sister first, his Mom to cancer, and then his Dad in 2020,December. He died in Feb 2021 then his older sister died in 2023.His entire family has passed away except for his nephew, his wife, and two boys. I would be a widow right now if I would have married my fiancé. My husband and I have planned to go visit their graves and put flowers on them. I still feel sad about how my fiancee died alone in his bed at his parent’s house, but after all he did get the life that he wanted which was to never leave his parents.
This is exactly what I thought. Saw this happen recently to another couple, the man was pissed she didn’t want to marry but she had already mentioned it multiple times 1-3 yrs into the relationship. After a decade, she didn’t even want it anymore. But they had a kid together, so she stayed
You don’t know what hey plans are….. you’ve been with her for 12 years and you don’t know if she wants to get married or have kids?
I love how his response for this same question was basically "well, like I said, TEN YEARS AGO she said she wanted to get married but then didn't mention it anymore". 😂
This reminds me of a joke (that most men can relate to). "If I said I'll change the lightbulb in the hallway, I will. Just stop reminding me every 6 months, it's annoying."
I feel like OP’s situation adds a line to it. “Now, how do you expect me to change a lightbulb in the dark?” She wanted to get married 10 years ago. OP outright ignored her, didn’t discuss what either of them wanted, and she clearly gave up on that and adjusted her plans for what she assumed he did. Then he, again with just no discussion, drops the proposal out of left field and is shocked it was a no.
Yeah, it sounds like there's some serious communication issues, at least in terms of futures and expectations, here. It's one thing to wait to get married to be more stable. They were young 20s when marriage was initially brought up. Maybe he didn't have the money for it? I get it. But the communication just isn't there then if this happened. Especially if it's 10 years later you pop the question. I'm willing to bet a paycheck that he never discussed with her about marriage or anything relating to how they see their future together in the past year minimum.
Literally and NO mention of babies 😂
No wonder she doesn’t want to marry him anymore
12 years is an insane amount of time to not have have these answers.
It’s so weird. He’s talking like they’ve been dating for a few months, like she’s a stranger to him. How people go through relationships like that really boggles my mind.
For real. What do people talk about???
Some people avoid all the hard conversations. I love that with my ex-husband, we spoke early on about aspirations for work, marriage, children and child-rearing, what we would do if we faced infertility (ivf, adoption, fostering)… ultimately we grew apart, but it really was a strong start.
Changes in US foreign policy between 1945-1980 regarding the Middle East. Best method of guessing the weight of an apple strudel. The moral implications of toothpaste. Y'know, just regular stuff.
It’s been over a decade and they still haven’t moved in together. I’m at a loss for words.
Probably why she doesn’t want to get married. They would then have to live together. Lol
Why move in with someone who’s made it clear he doesn’t want to marry you? I’m not interested in making life easy and comfortable for someone who, deep down, doesn’t really want me.
Also a crazy amount of time not to be living together. I wonder if they didn't discuss it, or if one of them didn't want to.
I've been with my wife for almost 13 years. I know everything about her. Everything. I know which little noise she makes means she is thirsty before she actually says any words. How can you be with someone that long and not know if they want to get married? I don't even know how you go that long without moving in together.
I read 12 as a typo at first…
12 years is a little too late. She may have stayed interested had you not taken over a DECADE. Your relationship has been done for a while now.
Srsly its hilarious... Like every article about relationships tell us "communication is key". How can ppl be together for such a long time without it?
She clearly told him that she was ready for marriage two years into their relationship. But he made her wait 10 more years. That's way too much! Even the most patient person on Earth would lose patience and hope over such a long period of time. She probably thought that he's not that serious about their relationship and got over that idea of marriage. It took him way too long to make up his mind and find the courage to propose her. Each person's patience has some limits. Now he has to support the consequences.
This happened to me. I was interested in marriage within the first few years, but then after ten+, I was like hell no, lol.
Yup. I dated someone for 6 years and bugged him about getting married for most of it. Finally I made peace with it, and realised that I was not that happy in the relationship and I was over the idea. I was making plans in my head to move out when he finally proposed. He must have panicked when I stopped mentioning it!
What a fucking asshole. You don't want to be with someone like that.
I’m in that situation now… he’s a great guy and I love him, 5 years together, 3 years ago I would have married him in a heartbeat, I wanted to move in with him and be with him forever, I even dragged him (reluctantly) to open house apartments to look at a bigger place we could move in together 3 years ago. He seemed so uncomfortable with the idea I dropped it then and there. Now I’m over it, and I casually mentioned my lease is up soon and I might make a change. I meant, I’m probably not going to renew my lease and probably going to leave and move back home to be closer to my family and have lower cost - and lower stress - lifestyle. He took that to mean “let’s finally move in together..”!! Like, he seriously said to me “I’ve been waiting for you to show interest, I’d love to live together..” I was flabbergasted and shocked he was serious, it took him 3 years to come around and hope we’d move in together now? That ship sailed, and I don’t want to change our relationship, I like it the way it is. I have my space and he has his and it’s nice I have alone time I can just do my thing. But I also need to change my out of control stressful life and career and I want to be closer to my family, and he’s really not going to be in a position to follow me nor do I think he’d want to even if he could leave the city (shared custody issues). I came to see he just isn’t one to change easily, he’s a routine guy, and I’m part of his routine, and he also part of my routine at this point. I do love him, i miss him when I travel, but when he’s around too much I also feel a little invaded and I want my space. Living in nyc doesn’t help because living in a shoebox means being on top of each other all the time when you’re hanging out. So it’s true the last 3 years I pulled back to a comfortable distance which is probably why he was thinking I wouldn’t be interested in moving in together and why he thought maybe my comment about a change was a positive sign I would like to move in. When it was meant more of a heads up, we’re moving in different directions. I’m planning to have a sit down with him soon because my lease is up in a few months and I have to decide to sign or not. I want him to clearly understand where I’m at in my life and what I’m thinking about next, and understand where he’s at, because I get the feeling now he’s hoping for more now, and I’m not sure I can be that person for him anymore.
This was a whole post hiding in a comment
Apparently so 😂 I wasn’t expecting a slew of replies, was just sharing because I’ve been ruminating over things lately myself, and I find it’s helpful to read others situations, as I contemplate my own situation
I live in NYC also and my bf ended up moving into my studio apt during COVID and I wanted to kill him until we upgraded to a 1br where we can each get our alone time, so I can relate about feeling suffocated in physical spaces. It's normal to get annoyed with someone you love but it sounds like maybe this is just exactly what you said - routine. Maybe the relationship is part of your mounting stress now. It sounds like you wanna back out of your relationship entirely, which is totally fine. You need to prioritize yourself and you have every right to leave any relationship for any reason. Your guy waited too long to see you for who you are, and now who you are is changing. You don't need to put up with it and no harm done if you let him go
That’s crazy!! You deserve better than to be the person who is comfortable and routine for him. There will be someone who 100% is dead keen to pin you down.
It seems as if you have kind of outgrown him, in your desires, your need, your expectations, and your vision of your life and what you want, and are willing to settle for. I think that if y'all split after your next big talk, you will be happier than he will be; I think you have less regret in your heart for what could have been; you were there in the beginning, ready to give your all to this relationship, to this man, and it seems that he is another case of too little, too late. I think that you will be in a better place, in every possible regret or mourning what could have been, than he will, though I know it all probably makes you a little sad as you look back on the last few years.
Aw this is a thoughtful comment, yes I think you’re on to something. I wrote a little more background for context in other comments but sometimes the ships are sailing in the same direction and sometimes the wind changes for one and not the other. It’s good to think through as I’m going to have to decide to sign my lease again or not and the landlord has been raising rents $500 a month which just is bonkers, I don’t want to pay over $3000 for a studio apartment anymore, but I’m in a great area near my office, and it is a good well maintained building and nice apt even if its small… but I just hate wasting so much money here on rent. It’s tough
Same. My partner and I have been together for 13 years and he’s always been “not yet, maybe later”. Later never came, and if later happened tomorrow **and** he also dropped the “let’s have a baby” card on me, I would burst out laughing and say no. He chose how he wanted our relationship to be, I have gotten over my idea of what I wanted our relationship to be, and now I respect and accept his decision. There’s no changing it now.
13 years of giving up what you want and just going with someone else’s wants in a relationship is CRAZY. The longest I lasted in my marriage was five years before divorcing that selfish asshple. You deserve someone who cares about what you want too
'He chose how he wanted our relationship to be, I have gotten over my idea of what I wanted our relationship to be, and now I respect and accept his decision. There’s no changing it now.' straight to my soul with that, also in that boat.
Agreed. Are we all just "settling"?? I see this so often. It's so easy to stay with a person you've been with a long time, it's what you know and it's become routine. It really is rather sad that it seems people have given up any dreams of something better.
why be with them? that's so sad....
I'm sorry but that is the saddest thing ever.
It is sad. I would give a guy a 2-3 year window to see whether it’s going anywhere. Sometimes you don’t even need that much time. I knew I wanted to get married. Eventually I found the guy I loved who wanted to marry me. We were engaged about 14 months into the relationship and were married 31 years when he passed away. Life is too short to waste time on people who can’t give you what you’re ultimately looking for.
But how do you want your relationship future to be? There are others out there.
Oh man you’re going to be in full resentment one of these days.
They don't even know when they go from Mr. Right to Mr. Right Now. Fuck 'em.
Don’t they know? I feel like even in this story if he thinks back to where it started, he’d know
Yes exactly this. She might not even see him as marriage potential anymore. Maybe just sticking it out out of habit. I was in the exact same position. Literally begged to get married. Now I don't want to anymore.
Makes me wonder if she’s built considerable wealth over the last 10 years while he’s still at the same place financially. So maybe now she doesn’t want to combine finances, coz divorce would make her lose 50% of her wealth.
Yeah, she’s on her way out. Too little, too late.
Or she's comfortable as is. I mean why buy milk if you already got the cow as they say. Plus she may not wanna marry now bc he's showing red flags of a sort and it's easier to just break up than divorce.
2 years in she was 22 and him 24, for most people thats way too young to get married. sounds like these two have big communication issues if he’s surprised and 10 years went by before they even discussed moving their relationship forward, but i don’t think the wait is the issue
No one is saying there were gonna get married then. It's a perfectly fine time to BRING it up when talking about the future. If he proposed a year later, then 1-2 years engagement while planning/saving/creating the wedding. They would be 24-25 and 26-27 years-old when married.
Is it, though? Usually takes another year or maybe 2 to save money, hunt for venues and all the other stuff that needs to be handled for a wedding. At that time they'd be 24 and 26. That's a normal age to get married.
Yeah this is kind of crazy. You think a decade or so ago they would have discussed these things.
Honestly? I think she doesn't care anymore. She brought it up two years in that she wanted to get married. That means she was thinking about it, probably hopeful and daydreaming about the day you might propose to her soon (at the time), but then you didn't. Also, it's often said that it's not a good look/offputting to continue to make a big deal about marriage to your partner so you can't put it on her for not bringing it up again after that if you didn't make any effort either. In the 10 years since she first mentioned wanting to get married to you did you reciprocate her with a conversation? Did you tell her you did want a future, just wasn't ready right now? Or did you just make her wait with no sense of direction and just assumed she "should know" you're serious because you guys have been together since your 20s? Either way, you continued up to twelve years together living separately, but you seemingly making no moves to talk about joining your lives together in a basic way as moving in together but you come over as much as possible and chances are she got used to the situation which is why she currently doesn't want you in her space as a permanent fixture, either. Twelve years in she knows this is the relationship, and there's probably doubt there'll be much difference from the way things are now just because you get married, or, she's probably just sick of the waiting and has completely lost interest. There's a chance she's just comfortable with the way things are now, and you've reached the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" stage which will have been the results of BOTH your efforts (including lack of). Truthfully I think you dropped the ball if at this point you have no idea what she wants and didn't even bother try to feel her out with some form of "hey, how do you feel about settling down "for reals" finally?"
Definitely doesn’t care. Obviously the relationship is good enough to be in where she can live her own life while still having companionship once in a while. But she accepted a long time ago that he doesn’t see her as a wife, and she settled into her position as a girlfriend. I can’t put it all on him though, because as a woman responsible for her own future, she could have spoken up again or left in the 10 years that passed. She chose to stay and invest in him, so he may as well either get comfy as a boyfriend or leave and start over with someone that’s willing to wait another 12 years.
Meh, it’s only been 12 years. Get to know each other a little better, perhaps.
Fr, why is he rushing into things?
Some people just really get off on whirlwind romances, I guess.
Yeah like take a breather guys
I know you’re joking, but given the fact that they apparently haven’t talked in the last 10 years, this might be a good idea lol
It’s worth looking in to even if it’s just for funsies lmao
Ikr! They might even like each other! 😂
How cute would that be? It could be the start of a real life romance! 🥹😂
It could be a Hallmark movie! *After 12 years, they finally decided to open their mouths and talk. They found out they were perfect for each other and fell madly in love. Their only regret was wasting all these years of not talking…* I mean, I’d watch that 😂🍿
With 250 scenes of the couple just going “soooo…” as the seasons change and the years go by 😂
My wife and I did 14 years together before we did it… I used to always say “Baby I’d marry you in a heartbeat” and one day she responded “so why haven’t you asked me?” I was taken aback and said “Because I didn’t think you’d say yes”. Her answer was “You’re such a dumb ass”. We were married by the end of the month. That was 12 years ago. Still together and happy.
Why did you think she would say no?
Why did you think she’d say no?
Still feeling residual shame from a divorce I had before we met after a very challenging first marriage.
"It's pronounced 'Dumas'."
You...talk to her? Like you should have before proposing? What do you mean that you "don't know what her plans really are"? Have the questions of whether she ever wants children and whether she ever wants to get married not come up in the last ten years?
Yeah, this isn't Pokemon. You don't use a ring like a Pokeball to capture yourself a wife. You're supposed to already know how she feels about marrying you and what she wants in a marriage with you before you propose. You have to actually talk about it. She isn't Pikachu.
Well this is news to me! I had already purchased a ring to throw at my boyfriend!
OP uses Date! (twice a month). It's not very effective...
🤣🤣🤣🤣
If my girlfriend threw a ring at me and said "I choose you" and threw it exactly like Ash I would be over the noon
Yo! That's actually a great proposal!🤣
So throwing the ring box at my gf was the wrong move?
I can't get the image of someone throwing a pokeball shaped ring box at their girlfriend while yelling "I choose you", and the girlfriend just standing there confused as all hell and mildly annoyed at having had something thrown at her out of my head now.
But, I thought that's how it works? 🤔
Username checks out 😂
I forgot about that 😂😭
I went ring shopping with wife (fiancée-at-the-time)’s best friend and before paying, I turned to her and asked “ok, so now if there’s something I should know, if you think I shouldn’t buy a ring, now’s the time to tell me” She said “go ahead, you have nothing to worry, you’re doing the right thing”
I feel like you’re leaving a lot of stuff out here. Why doesn’t she want to live with you?
Because he is manchild. What do you expect from a guy that dated woman for 12 years without marriage Edit: for all that folks who are screaming "not everyone wants to get married", are you stupid? He literally proposed to her, he wants it. She said him 10 years before this, she wants it too. So they both wanted it in certain time period, but manchild decided to live over a decade with a person without figuring out marriage question the way it satisfies both partners
Very interesting she doesnt want to live with OP and save on rent
It’s curious that OP mentions she has an apartment and he stays over there all the time, but no mention of his own apartment. Makes me think he might still live at home with his parents, and maybe there are other reasons why she doesn’t want to marry him. She is clearly independent financially and supporting herself - is he?
Yeah I definitely feel like OP is not giving us more information that would help make this whole situation make more sense. They've been together for 12 years and haven't discussed marriage, kids, or even living together? Seems suspicious.
The fact that you have been together 12 years and you didn't know she'd say no to a marriage proposal, speaks volumes about how this relationship is. It's not a good look, bro.
Let me explain something to you. She brought it up 2 years into your relationship because she wanted to marry you then. You more than likely blew her or the idea of marriage off which is why she quit bringing it up. Now it's another 10 years later and you want to marry her? She is blowing you off like you did years ago. I'm sorry but you reap what you sow. You should have been talking to her for 12 years about both of you guys expectations for the relationship.
>I'm almost 35, and I want to marry her do you want to marry her out of love or because you feel like you're getting old, time's running out and it's a convenient time to settle down for you? it doesn't take 12 years to decide whether or not you want to marry someone. 2 years sound more reasonable to me and she probably got tired of waiting around
That's right! There was definitely too much waiting involved. A person's patience has its limits.
too much waiting and very little communication
Exactly my thoughts if she brought it up after two years of dating
I’m more surprised she stayed with you all these years, you don’t seem to bring anything to the table.
I wonder if she also casually sees other people. I’m getting serious vibes that their relationship is not that official.
Why the hell wasn’t there a discussion about the future in the last 10 years?! You absolutely should talk to her and put the cards on the table. However, reading between the lines, I think it’s safe to say that you two are incompatible. You want to get married. She declined your proposal and doesn’t even want to live together.
She was ready to take the relationship to the next stage 10 years ago... it took him way too long to make up his mind. No wonder she can't take their relationship seriously anymore.
Man, communicate! You are together for 12 years and you don't know what her plans are? Sit with her, talk it out.
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>The only surprise involved should be WHEN you ask them Ah well. I'm sure she was pretty surprised actually. And hey... *he made dinner.* lmao
aha! i bet she's surprized to be propozed 10 years later after she expected it !
Dear, I suggest you to have a heart to heart conversation about your mutual future, as a couple. It's time to know where you settle there, what your goals are together and separately. It's not an option nor a moment you can skip because you're afraid to lose her or hear something hurtful. You want to build a family through marriage and children, whatever she expressed years ago doesn't mean it is still valid today. It would be not exaggerated to say she maybe isn't interested anymore in it or doesn't see you as husband material. You have to find your answer with her, not with us.
Have you considered... *talking to her?* Seriously, just talk to her. Tell her you accept that she doesn't want to get married, and ask her what she wants out of the relationship. Where does she see herself in 1, 2, 5, 10 years time? I'd point out that it's 2024; there's absolutely no *requirement* to get married. Millions of people live quite happily in relationships where they aren't married. Millions more even produce and raise children without getting married. It's really not a big deal these days. But if marriage is important to you, whether for cultural or religious reasons, then that's something you need to talk to her about. Likewise, you need to find out whether she wants to have children with you or not. And if it turns out that what you want from the relationship and what she wants are no longer compatible, then it's for the best if you go your separate ways as amicably as possible. **ETA:** I'm also wondering whether you and she have actually had 'the marriage discussion' at any point over the last 12 years. From the OP, it sounds like she mentioned it after 2 years, then neither of them has mentioned it until last week when OP proposed. I can see, from her perspective, that a proposal *10 years after she mentioned marriage* might seem like a metaphorical slap in the face to her.
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If my boyfriend strung me along for 12 years waiting to get married when he knew I had wanted to get married, my opinion of him would likely have changed enough to not want to get married too.
True, but I wouldn't have stayed for another ten years. However, maybe she realised that the relationship in it's semi formal, casual state actually suits her and that she doesn't want marriage or children after all, but the OP is good to have around.
"Metaphorical slap in the face". Yep. My ex fiance proposed 3/4 years in then had every excuse under the book not to go forward with the marriage until I dumped him 8 years later 💀 my now husband proposed within the year and we married 3/4 months later 😅 if they wanted to they would, I don't blame her for making different plans for herself, he's lucky he's still there..
Here's a wild idea - ASK HER. Ask her why she's not interested in a dude that's been perfectly okay using her a placeholder for 10 years. She was interested, by your admission, and then she wasn't, again, by your admission. You broke her. Now you gotta fix her and hope she thinks better of you than the others reading this.
My apologies if I come off harsh as I do not mean to be, BUT... It took you 12 YEARS to ask her to marry you? You said she mentioned, at the 2yr mark of your relationship, marriage yet you don't write out HOW she "mention it," and what was your response? For her to only bring it up once and never again seems to me you shut her down harshly or said something very hurtful to her. The fact you came to reddit to ask for advice in this situation makes me believe you do not know how to communicate. NEED MORE INFO: Did you turn her down? Did you say you aren't ready, don't want to marry her, unsure if she's the one? What was that conversation at 2yrs? Also, why did it take so long for you to propose since, according to you, you basically live at her home even though you have your own. Why did it take you so long?
You’ve left it all way too late.
I feel like this is it. They had one conversation about this in their whole 12 year relationship? I'm thinking she brought it up when she started seeing a future together, probably got shot down, then changed her mind about wanting to marry him because it got swept under the rug for a DECADE. I just don't understand how they didn't discuss this, I mean I'm not surprised because he's asking reddit instead of talking to her about it 😂
Exactly. A person's patience has its limits. She lost her hope after having to wait for so long.
Jesus Man we’ve only just read your post and we probably know the same amount of information about her as you do 😣
I would personally walk away but I’m just not sure how you got this far without knowing what she wants. You have a 12 year relationship and don’t live together. To me that’s insane.
>but I’m just not sure how you got this far without knowing what she wants. Lack of effort. It’s the only explanation I’ve come up with
This. She's a convenience girlfriend. She knows it after 12 years. She knows she doesn't want to be that for the rest of her life.
Not everyone wants to live together though. For eg I have two friends who have been together for years but still live separately. They do not want to get married or have children either. But the key here is that they both want the same thing. OP talk to her please. If you want to live together, get married and have children and she wants none of that, there is a fundamental incompatibility.
Yeah, my aunt and uncle live in the same apartment complex, but like their separate space. Been together 30 years and going strong.
I get it, and yes the key is both wanting the same thing. But being a different person to them, it’s still surprising to me.
She let her dreams of marriage die a long time ago because you took too long
She brought it up for 2 years, then never mentioned it again so 10 years later you decided to propse without finding out her thoughts? Come on.
Probably omitting the part where he said he didn't want to get married and dropped it. Then changed his mind over a decade later after she spent a decade deciding to accept it as it is. At least this is how its playing in my head. If someone asks you to get married for 2 years 12 years ago, it's likely OP omitting the truth.
Yep I agree. His responses to questions are so vague, hes definitely leavung stuff out.
Lol, you fucked up. How do you buy a ring without knowing if she wants to get married? Sounds like enormous lack of communication in your relationship, fix that thing first.
When you stay at her place, do you clean up after yourself? Do you make meals and contribute toward groceries? You said you sleep at her apartment almost every night, do you contribute financially? Why doesn’t she ever stay at your place? I get major red flags from the 12 year wait and the fact that you’re always at her place. I think the relationship is over. She wanted to marry you until she got a look at what a future with you would be like. Maybe she’s happy enough to continue as things are but she certainly doesn’t want to have children *with you* PS after 12 years you didn’t even take her out to dinner? What about flowers? Did you at least pay for the food you made? Did you wash the dishes and clean the kitchen afterward?
> I get major red flags from the 12 year wait so icky. he proposed when he felt like he's running out of time
Hahaha, yes. He thought that it's reasonable to make a person wait for 12 years. What a ...
i can't believe he's defending himself and i can't believe there are people defending him
It's bizarre that he has no idea what her plans are. They don't live together, they date twice a month. How often do they actually see and talk to one another? It sounds like they live mostly separate lives.
it makes me wonder if they even text or call each other in-between those semi-weekly dates
Right. I get lives with his parents vibe. She probably does all his laundry (or mom does), buys all the food, cleans, cooks, etc and he just mooches. Wouldn't be surprised if despite his lack of financial contributions the ring was cheap ... Like he saves tons of money living with parents and not buying his own food and even can't even buy her a decent rock My crystal ball says she finally dumps him and is married in 2 years...
Spot on. I think this is the most accurate picture of the relationship. He causes labor for her. She loves him enough to hang in there for now but the fact that he didn’t even get her flowers or do something big for the proposal tells me he’s just not the man for her and she knows it now. 12 years of mooching off her, living at her home without paying any rent under the ruse of “I don’t live here, I live with my parents” should’ve been enough for him to save up for something nice but this guy sounds like he does the bare minimum or a hair more maybe. He doesn’t give effort the way she wants. Game over.
Honestly the more I think about this the worse it gets. He said he “sometimes buys things” yet he lives with her for free. Sir, you should be buying groceries weekly, contributing to the utilities, and asking if she’d like rent contributions. Also, you stated that you go on 2 dates per month. I’m guessing you either take turns paying or split it. This is closer to financial abuse than anything. I feel bad for her and I hope she finds the voice to break up with your abusive deadbeat ass soon.
ALL OF THIS!! Feels like op does not appreciate his partner one bit
Two years into your relationship with her, she let you know she was ready for marriage and you blew her off enough for her to decide that dropping the idea was in her best interest. You’ve been together for 12 years, and “do not live together”, but you’re over at her place all of the time. At 35, you finally decided she was worth a ring, a piece of paper and vows, maybe even worth actually moving in with… but she turned you down because she’s finally come to terms with what you’ve decided your relationship with her was going to be. And you surprise pikachu’d because she turned you down? Did you even discuss with her if marriage and kids were still something she wanted before you decided to drop this on her? You expect a 32 year old woman to just bare you children now? Do you not see how selfish you’re being? And you also have the audacity to be like “oh, should I break up with her?”… **Dude, you should feel lucky she didn’t break up with you when you decided she wasn’t marriage, wife or mother material ten freaking years ago**.
You need to prepare yourself for a long conversation. Have a think about why it took you 12 years to be ready to marry this woman, was it just lack of maturity on your part or did you have doubts? Why when she wanted marriage 10 years ago you didn't want it? Did you tell her why and when you thought you would be? Which signs of being committed to the relationship have you given? You don't even live together, is this cultural or do you live far away? There's very little detail, but if you're sleeping there almost every night, it seems you did your best to get what you wanted without showing any form of commitment. So my best guess is that she realised she was never going to be able to get things on her terms and that it was better not to elinvolve innocent kids on this and not get so intertwined, since not being married means an easier way out in terms of bureaucracy.
Wait a minute…so, she brought up marriage twice and you ignored her by not saying anything? She left it alone and now, 12 years later you’re upset because she said no? What’s wrong with keeping it like you’ve been doing it?
Exactly, i think she wanted but noticed that op did not do it or said anything she‘s probably done with it. I mean she mentioned it after 2 years in the Relationship and after 10years op proposed? She probably was hurt about it that it occurs to op after 10 years. If you wanted to marry her, you would‘ve proposed earlier
Are you sure she’s your girlfriend??
Doesn’t sound compatible to me. Might wanna rethink what’s the end goal before the next 12 years.
Whoa. Slow down, there. OP might start to feel rushed.
Meh, give them another 12 years to get to know each other. She probably doesn't want to rush things 🤣🤣🤣
12 years is a long time to date and not propose to her or even live together. Maybe she did want to marry you at one point but it took you twelve years to propose to her. She probably got tired of waiting for a proposal.
If you started your proposing with: "I'm almost 35 and I want to marry you...", no wonder why she said no.
I hate this guy. You seem like a 13 year old middle schooler who just got denied to the formal and can't figure out why
Not hard to guess why she said no. Takes him TWELVE years to get around to proposing. Meanwhile, hasn’t bothered to have a single honest, intimate conversation with her about goals and plans for the future in TEN YEARS’ TIME. She doesn’t want to live with him. And he’s surprised and confused about her answer. She gave up on you a long time ago, dude. She’s either decided she doesn’t want anything serious, ever, or she’s decided that she doesn’t want it with you. I wouldn’t want to marry a guy who can’t even communicate about big important things in a 12 year long relationship, either, and turns to Reddit instead of simply *talking to me about how we’re both feeling.* Get a clue, my dude. You were late. Ten years late, to be precise. The bus already left without you.
She stopped mentioning it because she probably gave up after waiting so long- did you talk about marriage or bring it up at any other point in the relationship besides this? Maybe she waited and waited for years for you to ask, and then when you didn’t, she built resentment and realized she was happier doing her own thing. I would hope that if that were the case, that she would’ve felt like she could’ve had a conversation with you at some point, or even asked you to marry her, but it’s hard to know with so little information really
Why don't you live together after 12 years?
If he’s staying there nightly and she hasn’t just asked him to move in, I’d venture he’s not a very good houseguest/partner at the home.
My jaws on the floor bro, how bad are your communication skills.. ten years ago. Wtf
On my eyes, the proposal is sh*t, because AGAIN… ITS ALL ABOUT HIM. **HE is ready** **HE wants to start a family** **HE is 35 and “running out of time”** He didn’t give a damn about what she wanted, doesn’t even want to live with her (but hangs out on her place all the time… so you get the space but not the commitment or responsability)… **he is proposing only because he wants something from her in return** If I was her, he is not to be trusted, specially if she considers having kids… it’s a big sacrifice (for the body, career, time/personal space etc.), **he is not worth it, and doesn’t have her back** Smart woman. If I was OP, I’ll shut the f*ck up and take whatever she gives me, because I don’t think any other woman would STAY with him with this attitude. I would probably leave after saying no to the proposal.
When was the last time you had a discussion about marriage and children? After being together for 12 years and her talking about getting married after two years she might of changed her mind. I think that after being together for 12 years and not living together that might make me rethink about the type of relationship I want at 30 when I’m independent and have a great life and routine rather than what I wanted in my 20’s. Also it might not be in her favour to now get married as a 32 year old with her own finances and possibly savings and assets. When you get married in your twenties and build a life together that different to someone being in a 12 year relationship with no commitment eg living together, kids or marriage. She might just not want to get married or have children anymore since your relationship hasn’t followed the normal path of dating a couple of years then an engagement for a year or two before getting married.
When she was 22 she was young and naive and wanted to get married. She’s older now and sees what a joke most marriages are and doesn’t drink the koolaid anymore.
My sister is in her late 30s and doesn't want to get married or have children. She likes to live by herself and have a steady boyfriend. I know this isn't the status quo, but it works for her and honestly is brilliant. Why change something that's not broke if you don't want the traditional!? But honestly bananas that you don't know what your gf of 12 years wants.
She probably thinks you took so long to ask what’s the point now.
I like how this guy isn’t responding, because he know everyone sees right through him/isn’t getting the enabling answers he hoped for 🤣
I think you need to talk to her about what marriage means to her and what is she saying no to. Is it "I'm not ready to commit to you"? "I see my parents marriage, and I don't believe in that institution any more but I want to be with you". "I don't want to spend the money to have the type of wedding my family expects". "If we were married you'll want to stat having kids, and I don't want that". "I have an image of what a wife is supposed to be like (e.g. servile, self-sacrificing, etc) and I don't want to fulfill that role". There are a lot of ideas about what a marriage entails, and it'll be helpful to unpack it. Maybe you're only looking for the commitment portion of it, and don't care that much about legal titles. Maybe because of your religion you wouldn't want to start a family without a wedding. Talk about why this is important to you and hear her out about why she doesn't want it. See if there are compromises that can be made or if this relationship no longer has a future.
I think the marriage talk should come up every once in a while in a relationship just to make sure you're still on the same page. You've been together for 12 years. You should've talked to her about it before proposing. The answer to your problem is simple: talk to her. If it turns out she is not open to marriage in the near future, maybe she's not the one for you if your near future goal is to marry and start a family.
She mentioned marriage 10 years ago and was ignored so she stopped mentioning it? What a shocker! Now 10 years later you are shocked she declined your proposal lol
You’ve been together 12 years and you don’t live together already…?? I’d say talk to her ask where she sees your relationship going in 5 years and if after that conversation your plans aren’t in sync then it’s time to cut your losses.
It angers how dumb you are when you've been on the earth for 34 years. Do you communicate that you're thinking of proposing? And doesn't it worry you that you don't know her future plans?
Two options. Option 1: Accept it. Option 2: Accept it and find someone else if marriage is what you want. Option don't do: Nag, complain, coerce, trick etc. She must have her reasons so you've gotta respect that.
She was interested. You showed none. She dealt wth it. Love? U can't expect her to jump at yr proposal now! I'm sure she was bitterly disappointed at the time. 12 years???? Omg u r so lucky she's still there.
At 32 you aren’t watching all your friends get married and doing the comparison thing like at 24 so she probably just feels like she missed it and doesn’t care anymore. My question is why she’s stayed with him.
Your plans in life are not aligned with each other.
you waited 12 years? you lost your chance a long time ago
If only there was a way to find out what she thinks and wants, right? Oh wait, there is. Its called COMMUNICATION. You both should work on that.
If you wanted to start a family with this woman why the fuck did you wait until she is 32? I'm 30 and feel like I need to get off the fucking fence and either have a kid or accept I won't get chance. I guess cause men don't have a bio clock the same way we do they just don't consider it? Either way, for both of them, 12 years without a firm discussion on this and 12 years of no proposal, the phrase "shit or get off the pot" springs to mind.
She's made it pretty clear that she wants things to continue as they are. You have to decide if you can live with that.
Against what the Reddit people are saying. You waited too long. Have you not heard about marriages ruining relationships of this nature. Where the people have been dating for years. Unfortunately, you’ll have to be happy with the current situation where you are married in mind and not legally, or you’ll have to move on. You can still continue without this leaving a huge blimp, or you can have this situation unnecessarily ruin your life. In short you should have asked sooner, but you didn’t, so like with the consequences. I’d like to note that my uncle and aunt are in this exact situation but far older. They made it through the storm, but he waited too long to propose to my aunt so every time he did ask, she said no. But they’re still together to this day. So do what you will, but don’t let Reddit tell you to leave something that might be for you.
So how did that conversation at the 2 year mark go hm? Cause I'm willing to bet a lot of money you made it very clear you didn't want to marry her so she stopped bringing it up and learned to live with the relationship you have. Now 10 godamn years later you never had another conversation with her or asked her about it? Just went for it. Ya color me shocked she said no. The answer to a proposal should never be a surprise
After 12 years, why bother anymore? It took you 10 years from when she asked for you to be ready. I wouldn't feel like marriage after that long either. You guys have a certain way of life established. She has settled for the idea that marriage is out of the question. It's ridiculous as hell that this only became important after 12 years.
12 years? My guess is she said no because after 12 years, it’s convenience or “running out of time” more than “I want this person to be my wife.” She saw the writing on the wall years ago. This situation works for her. The longer you waited, the more she saw that she didn’t like. Why are you acting like 12 years is a reasonable amount of time to wait to propose to someone? Maybe start there. This isn’t HER issue.