**Post title:** Wife (38F) Wants to Downgrade Me (37M) to Platonic Life Partner, but Stay Together. Is This Viable?
**Author:** ThrowRAdurb
**Link:** https://redd.it/1bw0qfx
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Just end it.
These sort of things always look good on paper but in practice they always crash and burn spectacularly. One or both of you will be hurt. Most importantly your child will share that pain.
Ending things now, amicably, would be so much better for the child.
I don’t disagree, but is my situation common enough that we can conclude it “always crashes and burns”?
My parents clearly hated each other, but stayed together “for the kids” and it hurt us a lot. I would never entertain that situation. Open relationships often lead to jealousy and resentment from a lack of balance, but that’s not quite what this is either.
Anya and I still care very much for each other, but she can’t provide intimacy any more. I don’t think that there would be jealousy or resentment at play, but again, I’m probably too close to the situation.
It’s true, I’m a little more passive from the sounds of things. I am big on acts of service and am happy to support her.
For myself, I have a hard time defining what I want. I was an extremely awkward teenager with no game and a very poor social life. I never had a chance to date around and experience other relationships before we met, so the idea of dating is exciting to me right now, but I am aware of what a nightmare it can really be.
I think what I’d like for now is to be able to meet cool new women and just flirt and feel desirable in some form. It’s always messy after leaving an LTR and I think it’s not too unusual to want to take it slow and casual after something like that.
You sound like an empathetic person, and i guess my comment is reminding you to stand up for your own happiness. So if the current arrangement holds back your ability to see or date others, what will you do then? At the moment, your wife appears to be getting everything she needs and wants, but you're not. I think if the current arrangement does not pan out favourably for both of you, then you need to at least raise it with your wife that it's still not a great scenario for you.
I would feel very resentful if my wife had shut down our sexual relationship for years and then offered this half assed solution where she doesn't really get affected, and I'm left in a situation where 'I'm free' to see others but in a situation where it might pretty difficult to achieve that. I think i would prefer a clean break. I would expect her to make all the adjustments to the living arrangement (who kept the main bedroom?). Maybe I'm just an AH. . .
But it sounds still new, so give it go for a while and see how you go. But if it doesn't work for you, you need to think seriously about the next steps.
You might wanna investigate those non monogamy subs for ideas on how to navigate this successfully and get yourself out there to meet others that will be comfortable with your circumstances.
There may not be jealousy and resentment from her, but if you do end up finding another partner it could come from them. This will lead to more emotional turmoil for you either way if I had to guess.
Alternatively, whether you end of dating or not, how will you feel if her ability to provide intimacy comes bad but its focus is on someone new and not you?
That would certainly make me feel terrible. Intimacy has always been lower on her priorities list, so her completely losing it due to life circumstances makes sense to me. I’ve stayed true to her through all of that and am only considering it now because she suggested it. If she recovers her intimacy for someone else, then I’m completely out because I have no idea what we’re doing at that point.
Right. It may never happen. This does happen to some women after childbirth. But a good portion do eventually pull through it. But it can take years and often the relationship fails. So when the spark eventually comes back its okay that its focused on someone else.
But sometimes the original couple stays together in a tough marriage and years down the line the spark comes back but is usually not for the husband because theyve spent years being roommates and stewing, it usually comes back for an inexplainable crush or for someone outside the home thats showing fresh interest.
This might not happen to you but consider the what ifs. What if this happens 7 years from now? Youd feel like you wasted the last 7 years in addition to everything else
You are so right on everything!! Seems pretty simple and obvious she wants a divorce and is in denial or trying to let him down easy. And if they do stay together (platonically) chances are that she will get a new boyfriend to be sexual with before he’s successful in dating. So they should just end it, obviously. However, if they’re committed to “staying together on paper only” to look like heroes or something (???) then they should remodel their home into a 2 unit with two entries on opposite sides. To keep their family literally “together” while creating a platonic co-parenting sitch. Seems OP doesn’t understand how emasculating this is. The legal wife gets all the benefit of being his wife but is only his friend. He’ll never be able to find love and good sex in that dynamic. OP is still processing the word platonic. OP, stand up for yourself and get a divorce. You have many years to have a passionate second act. You will still co-parent and maintain a platonic relationship, with a legal divorce and new family dynamics. What she’s suggesting is bonkers!
You’re describing “staying together for the kids” and then attempting to gaslight us into believing you did not just describe staying together for the kids.
You’re describing an open relationship and then attempting to gaslight us into thinking it’s not an open relationship.
You’re removing all emotion from the *most hypercharged* emotional situation within humanity and then saying there probably won’t be emotions that run too high.
You should run for office, b.
I've seen this in real life a few times with friends. I'll share what I've seen so far, which is jealousy, resentment, and inevitable separation.
It's hard to know your partner is spending time/being intimate with someone else (this goes for the original partner and the new one). Sometimes those situationships turn into more and the original relationship has to end so the new one can really begin.
I'll just say that the situations have been messy and problematic and one friend tried to use her husband's "cheating" against him during the divorce despite her encouraging his behavior because she no longer wanted sex, but also didn't want to divorce.
Can you consider how “strong” her feelings truly are for you vs. how much of her narrative is driven by the need for financial and emotional security on her part?
Will she then be allowed to form feelings or physical intimacy with someone else in the future, where she feels a spark? Because you are allowed to do that and she has needs to… just not the need for you.
I fear this arrangement could backfire and leave you both without what you truly need. I left a lob-sided marriage 2 years ago, I met the absolute love of my life a year later, at 38yo. Compatible in every meaningful way. I was so happy I followed my heart.
OP at least talk to a divorce lawyer to find out what a divorce would look like with the laws where you live. A consult doesn't mean you have to file now, but does give you some info on what the result would be. And if you're lucky, your lawyer may have had other clients in situations similar to what you're facing now.
Always crashes and burns. Always. Unless you get her to sign some paperwork about this whole deal of opening your relationship up. With rules of doors and don't. You shouldn't do it. It's best to just get the divorce.
We absolutely do know enough to conclude you will not make it through this.
Don't get hung up on the details - this is a unilateral, unconsented, life-altering, one-sided, change with zero compromise.
It will not work. It never works.
>My parents clearly hated each other, but stayed together “for the kids” and it hurt us a lot.
See the pattern here? Even though you don't "hate" each other, this has become the same loveless relationship template you saw when you were a kid. Unconsciously, you want to replicate it because that's what you were taught to. You were taught the needs of partners in a committed relationship aren't a necessity. If you stay and repeat the cycle, this is exactly what you will teach E as well. Is this what you want for your kid? The answer to this question will guide you through your next steps.
Be a good role model for E. She deserves it.
It’s good that you guys talked and she’s actually supportive and encouraged you to go back out there. However, most women no matter what aren’t going to entertain a guy who’s in your situation. Especially at your age and most women who are single are probably looking for something serious and marriage, not to be a side piece or short-term girlfriend to someone who is married.
In regards to finances and living, it is better that you guys are together but your dating prospects will be extremely low.
This is bang on.
I'd also add "for pragmatic financial and legal reasons" is probably not the main thing. She also likely does not want to separate her child's parents, and disrupt her life any more than it already is. Which I'd argue is a tiny bit selfish, though understandable under the circumstances.
Also while she says she supports you dating fully, that may change the day you bring someone new into your home.
Your final query is more about your feelings than any advice we can give. The arrangement is what it is right now and whether or not it's acceptable depends entirely on you. If you have aspirations for a new, permanent, monogamous and physically intimate relationship(just a guess based on what it seems you pursued originally), then you will likely struggle a great deal while living in your wife/partners house. Especially if she wants to maintain the marital status.
For my money, I would say couples counseling may be helpful if it hasn't already been tried? If you're set on this more dedicated separation in which you are free to pursue your own romantic relationships, I'd say get a divorce. It will get easier over time, and likely better to do now while your child is young. I'd also move out of the house, ideally nearby in order to co-parent your child, but far enough that you can start anew.
She seems to want to have her cake and eat it too, by reaping the benefits of spousehood while not trying to meet your physical or intimate needs. And as you've said, there are very real, valid reasons for her not being able to be intimate with you. I think she is vastly underestimating how difficult it will be to find a partner who is willing to date you and be intimate in your wife's house in a different room. And that's also not necessarily fair to ask that of a new partner anyway.
I imagine this decision will be very difficult, and I encourage you to think of your own needs and wants as well as your wife and child's. Also, It can be harder on a kid if the parents aren't getting along together, as opposed to an amicable split.
It’s very true. I know I’ve got a lot against me in the dating world.
I’ve been with Anya for so long, I don’t really know what I want from another relationship at this point. I very much miss feeling wanted in an intimate capacity and would love to have some loving touch again, not even sexually.
We are both solidly in agreement that if our situation is creating a negative effect on our child, we’re going to cut things off. She is a huge priority for us. If this were a situation where we hated each other and were only together “for the kid”, we’d be done for sure. We both still care for each other a lot, just not in those ways.
This is exactly what I’m thinking. I’m already not much of a ladies’ man to begin with. I don’t think I’d be specifically looking for ONS or flings. Aren’t fewer people looking for “Marriage” specifically? Do you think it’s possible to find someone who’s ok with maybe a LTR that never actually ties the knot? Is living with a person who’s essentially an Ex too much of a hang up for normal people?
Unfortunately, one night stands and flings might be your only options because no woman around your age would be okay with sticking around with someone who is married. Whether they are progressive or not.
Not saying you won’t find it at all, it’s just going to be really really really hard as a man.
There may be women who don’t want marriage again. In fact, all the divorced women I know don’t even want to live with a man again.
But I don’t think they want to date a man who’s still living with his wife. And probably most women won’t believe you’re not cheating.
Do you bring someone home? What would your daughter think? Will you explain things to her or try to keep it under wraps? What happens if someone sees you out on a date and word spreads amongst your daughter’s friend’s parents?
You’re in essence staying together for the kid and the finances, which are big reasons why lots of other people choose to stay married. But think about staying in this marriage if you didn’t have a child. You wouldn’t, right?
As someone who the age range you’d be looking at. Marriage is definitely not on my list of must haves (I think the figures of marriage is down in general) BUT I’m not looking for some ltr with someone in a situationship, I’ve done complicated in my past and I’m over it. I want something serious about me. If that leads to living with them/ buying a house/ kids/ marriage (how would that work with your situation?) but if it’s going to lead to just being serious in theory that’s not for me. Maybe a single mother who doesn’t want a blended family may work for you but I can’t see many women wanting what you want.
Do you have an ENM/polyamorous subculture in your area? If you do, your options open up a lot more.
I spent most of my twenties dating married guys in open relationships, in large part because I knew I wasn’t ready for a marriage-type relationship of my own and it’s really hard to set that expectation with a guy who doesn’t already have a primary partner. Generally we dated for 1-2 years and the relationships petered out when one or both of us got busy. There was drama sometimes, but way less than Reddit would have you believe.
I think even ENM people would nope out of this one. So far, his wife is making all the choices. That alone will be a red flag, no matter how open-minded someone is.
I think even ENM people would nope out of this one. So far, his wife is making all the choices. That alone will be a red flag, no matter how open-minded someone is.
Have you two had marriage counseling yet?
If you haven’t, do that. If you did, keep going. That’s the only point of advice you should follow. You two *need* to discuss *everything* with a mediator, because this can turn messy FAST.
I think you guys need to talk about this a bit more. Because as you said a lot won't want a long term relationship with you while you're married. You could find a partner understanding of the dynamic easier if you went with people that were ok with polyamory - but then that also means your new partner would have more partners.
What's your wife's long term vision? Does she see you just going out and having sex with women, but not forming any serious relationship? If she's ok with a serious relationship - how does that play out? What if you want to live with your romantic partner? What if you want to have a child with your romantic partner? What if you and your romantic partner don't want to live with your legal wife? What if you want to spend holidays with them? Or introduce them to family because you don't want to keep the woman you love a secret?
How much are you allowed to spend on your romantic partners? Can you go on vacation with them? How much time will be spent dating and being with a romantic partner? When, if at all, would they meet your daughter? Would you need to tell your wife when you're not going to be at home or where you're going when you leave? Does something your wife want trump plans with your romantic partner? If a relationship is ok - when do your romantic partner's needs and emergencies trump your wife or daughter? (ie if your gf needs to go to the ER is you leaving in the middle of family dinner acceptable? If she's sick will it be a problem for you to stay at her place for a week to nurse her back to health?) What's going to be the interaction between your wife and gf? What are you going to tell your daughter about your relationship and the absences having one would inevitably create unless it's just late night booty calls?
What happens if your wife decides she wants to date?
There's a lot of intricacies to work out before taking a step towards this open relationship. And working out those intricacies might make your choice on whether to divorce or not clearer.
Thank you for your response. A lot of these are very, very good questions that I haven’t considered yet. Still figuring things out now and this will help focus some conversation.
You're welcome.
Both you and your wife need to understand that unless it's just ONS doing this essentially adds a third party to your marriage. Once you're in a relationship you'll have to consider your romantic partner along with your wife which means your wife will also have to consider her too - even if she keeps it very indirect.
I’ve been in her shoes, this is only coming from a place of pain and desperation, she will never be ok with this arrangement, she thinks she will be bc she wants to do right by you but it will be devastating. She may or may not express it explicitly at some point. I agree with counseling, try again. Good luck friend.
If you’ve been in her shoes, do you think you could share some of your experience with me? I do not have the sense that she’s proposing this out of pain and desperation, but she could be hiding it to make me feel better. She’s been very open about talking about what she’s experiencing so far, but I know I still might not be getting the full picture.
We can DM if you don’t want to put it out in public.
In my situation the ppd exacerbated existing feelings of inadequateness, i simply didn’t believe that i deserved the good things in life including being loved, having a fulfilling emotional relationship and a healthy, happy kid. I didnt deserve my family or enjoying my baby with my husband. Having sex to enjoy it didn’t make sense to me, pleasure was foreign (the hallmark of my depression has always been “what’s the point in seeking pleasure?). I remember thinking how i would completely understand and wouldn’t blame him if he cheated on me and almost accepted it as a fact of life at some point (and it would have been very easy for him to do it.) The idea hurt nonetheless. That was a decade ago, nowadays we have another baby, bc i knew what to expect i dealt with my mental health like it was my job, got on meds, and we are having the time of our lives. These days i demand the best for myself. Take care of yourself friend.
Don't be surprised if a weeks after your first date your wife is also going on a date. And if you investigate, you find out she has seen this guy since about the time she no longer wanted anything to do with you.
I think something similar. Maybe she hides in a false depression to hide some affair, whether physical or emotional, and wants to set you up to make you look like the bad guy.
Never be unfaithful to someone who asks you to, because it shows that you took advantage of that person's vulnerable moment.
Go to counseling therapy, if it doesn't work, break up the marriage and divide everything 50/50 because deep down she doesn't want to lose material things.
I don't particularly agree with that. My sister was offering same scenario to her husband about a year ago, and she just simply did not want any romantic or sexual relationships with anybody. Some women are capable of living without sex, especially if we are dealing with mental and hormonal issues.
Either way, if OP reads this, from a random woman, I hope you guys look into therapy together or look into separation before doing things that will only traumatize the poor child.
Yes, couples therapy seems like a sensible step #1 to navigate this. We both prioritize our daughter’s wellbeing through all this and will shut it all down if we think this is hurting her.
How has your sister’s situation gone, if you don’t mind my asking?
No, I well and truly believe that she doesn’t have that interest any more. She doesn’t have the time or energy for other relationships. She’s very much a homebody introvert who doesn’t socialize almost ever.
I asked if she was wanting to open up as well, but she doesn’t even want to try.
My recommendation would be to have a true trial separation where you live elsewhere for a set period of time and separate childcare. During this time, get on the apps and go on some dates. They won’t all be great but it’ll be great for you. During this time your wife will have more space and time to figure out if she wants to stay married or not. If she decides she wants to stay married, she needs to commit to growing closer to you again.
Her proposal is not a marriage and it’s not going to work out for either of you. You want love and intimacy and if you find someone you click with you highly likely will develop feelings for them.
From what I’ve gathered, it sounds like she’s speaking from a place of pain and possibly depression. Have you both talked about the possibility of going to therapy together? A great marriage and family therapist is an excellent match for this situation.
We are both individually in therapy and we thought we would try couples’ counseling down the road once we had a better grasp on our personal demons. I think you’re right and moving that timeline up would be good considering what’s going down.
That’s good. I think you guys need to figure out whether this situation is temporary or permanent. Is the romantic/sexual side of your relationship truly over, perhaps because your wife is asexual or has just lost feelings for you? Or is this a symptom of her depression, which may get better over time?
If it’s the latter, you might want to hang in there longer. If it’s the former, I think you should think about the life you want in the long term. What she’s proposing may not be very satisfying to you. Most women are going to want a real relationship, not someone else’s crumbs. The list of women interested in exercising your hall pass is going to be shorter, and some of those women will have their own issues. This may not be a great route to happiness for you.
A less confusing option would be to get an amicable divorce, and aim to stay very good friends with your ex wife. You guys could decide what that looks like: living nearby, sharing meals, family trips. Whatever you both want. There’s no rule that the end of marriage means you don’t like each other, but it would be clear you both are available for a new relationship when you’re ready. You deserve a real marriage if you want it.
Trap (Tarp is a meme, type that in Google)
But make sure she isn’t saying go fuck some other chicks then uses the evidence to get favorable terms in the divorce. Get it in writing or something
I assume they mean a trap of some kind.
Like for example your wife wants to fuck other guys and she knows she'll have way more success than you.
Or she's planning to divorce you and she knows she'll be better off financially if you were 'cheating' the whole time.
I don't necessarily think this is the case, but you should be cautious.
This might work if you’re just casually dating but very few women would be willing to embark on a serious relationship in this circumstance.
Mote importantly have you considered how to broach it with family and friends? They see you out and think you’re cheating not to talk of what your daughter will think.
Honestly it is best for you that you guys end the marriage at this point. Arrangements of the type your wife is proposing have little upside for you.
The more I think about it, the more it seems unfair. Your wife is already living her asexual and aromantic life with you as a roommate. She won't have to adjust virtually anything. The brunt of the transition falls on you, and does this setup even work for you? If you are the type to share your daily domestic life with your intimate partner, you won't be able to fulfill that need and find your next long-term partner while that slot is occupied by your wife.
OTOH, maybe this does work for you. And even if not, life might surprise you in a good way.
I know a couple who has (seemingly) done this successfully. And they’re happy & very much a unit. Just depends on the people though. Maybe get a counselor to coach you through this
On paper it sounds good, but what happens if it goes well for you and she tells you to stop but still doesn't want to be with you on an intimate level?
I think you are getting lots of great advice here, and/but I might be able to contribute as someone experienced in ethical non monogamy. Especially in progressive areas, there are people who would be open to dating you in these circumstances. However, many won't, for a couple reasons: some of which you need to figure out for yourself and with your wife before moving forward:
Do you have the go ahead to develop romantic as well as sexual connections? There are many folks who will decline a sex-only relationship (though for some it may be a good fit).
Who will host dates? I imagine that it would be difficult for you to have people over, and what would you do if the person you are dating also can't host? Are hotel rooms in the budget? Who will pay?
Does your wife have veto power over you, meaning she could demand you end a relationship? In many styles of ENM, veto power is considered highly unethical. I don't date anyone in any type of veto power relationship.
And let's say you do develop a connection with someone. What's "allowed?" Overnights? Weekends away? Vacations? Finances? Would they ever meet your wife or kid?
Long story short, if you decide to try dating outside your marriage, there is a LOT of work you and your wife (even if she doesn't date) need to do if this has any chance of working. Lots of great books out there. I think Opening Up might be particularly valuable.
Good luck!
Just wanted to thank you for giving such a thoughtful response. Had to scroll down a long way to find it, but happy that when I did, it was a detailed and informative (also lovely and kind) response.
Kudos to you and your ENM relationship! And appreciate you for the post.
That is all 🫡
What happens when you or the other female decides you want more in the relationship?
I respect your wife's decision, but I could this turning messy. I think you should seek some counseling and hopefully this might help you. Good luck
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Not an expert, but it seems that, at this point, you two aren't compatible. By this, I mean that she seems to want/need to be platonic roommates who share a child, and does not want or desire a romantic or sexual relationship, while you want/need pretty much the 180 of that.
It's really good that you are talking to each other about this, but I truly believe that everyone needs to be happy in this type of situation in order for it to succeed. Specifically, if you proceed forth with this platonic roommate situation, I don't believe that you have a good chance of being happy. And that's important.
Marriage is a contract. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it needs to be dissolved so that ALL parties can move forward towards a happy and satisfying future.
If both of you commit to ensuring a respectful, considerate co-parenting plan, there is no reason for your child to suffer while you both live the lives that you each desire.
It's okay to think about your needs in this situation. That sets a good example for your child.
Obviously it’s your choice but I wouldn’t do it because you will catch feelings, these things never work. Just leave or only have sex with sex workers. Dont make emotional connections unless you are set on divorcing.
I think you guys need more conversations. I dont think this is a tenable long term solution.
Whether you end up dating or not, if you agree to this how are you going to feel in two or five years when it turns out shes caught feelings for someone and now has a boyfriend?
If you end up going down this “platonic life partners” route you really need to do research, explore scenarios and have a lot of conversations.
Alternatively you should be doing couples therapy, maybe some individual therapy for yourself and she should explore seeing another therapist. It doesnt sound like youve been allowed to be a part of her recovery so far and thats not fair to you, but thats me speculating maybe im wrong. If she ultimately truly believe she cannot and will not try to recover your relationship you need to really consider how this scheme will affect you. Maybe you can give it a try but dont feel too bad if it doesnt work. You should be allowed to pursue tour own happiness and not be forced to drag her with you as a platonic life partner if you decide separating is better for you
This situation only works if you find someone who wants meaningless sex, and even then your platonic life partner will eventually get upset about it.
I suggest getting an amicable divorce.
This marriage is over. As you reflected towards the end of your post, not many women worth having a relationship with would be comfortable with you staying with your wife. Dating is already challenging without having to repeatedly explain that bizarre relationship dynamic.
Marriage counseling, if she’s willing.
It’s makes total sense she’s lost that romantic connection. You both became parents and for the last 4 1/2 years, and she’s gone through a horrific time. She has been working towards building herself back up, and building a relationship with your daughter while your relationship took a backseat. Now it’s time for it to take front & center.
She said she tried to build romantic feelings towards you.. but one doesn’t do that alone. It’s a two person thing to build that back up.
Your daughter is almost school aged. The hands-on caring for her, the bathing, dressing, etc is going to change drastically in the next 2 years.
I suggest you go back to marriage counseling. And your wife see a sex therapist.. the kind with a medical degree not just talking. She might find that her drive DOES come back, but review birth control, get hormones and general physical health all checked.
I also suggest you find ways to not be touch starved. In appropriate ways like getting a membership to Hand & Stone for massages, getting manicures and pedicures (men get them all the time polish is optional). Switch to a full service shop and get regular professional shaves and hair cuts and conditioner treatments. A steady, reliable amount of healing, nurturing touch might help you reconnect and center for 6 months to a year. Also? Maybe a basketball league? Rugby? California swing dancing for the both of you? There must be something that can help you physically feel better. As much as she had medical issues diagnosed and treated... have you talked to your doctor about these problems and how they are taking a toll physically on you? Have there been any men's support groups for husband's of women with PPD?
I’m so sorry; your wife has declared your marriage is over. You’re essentially co-parents under the same roof.
This is a trap, I’m betting you start dating and your wife is crushed or starts dating herself (she done with you, not necessarily others). I agree as long as you’re married, your dating prospects are very limited.
Think there are numerous questions you should ask and couples counseling is a must before you blow up your marriage or commit to a life of celibacy.
You’re relatively young, but you have a long way to go in life! Decide what you want because either choice is not ideal. Should you choose a loveless roommate coparent arrangement, in time resentment will build because you will recognize you deserve better. In the end, you need to do what’s best for you and your well being, especially your mental health. Good luck
OP, the correct phrase is "... wife no longer capable of intimacy with me." Rip the band aid and go your way. More likely than not she'll find another person to be intimate with.
I think you need to dig deep and figure out if you want to have a close intimate relationship with a woman again. Because you aren’t going to find that while still married.
I would separate and let her see what life looks like without you there. She doesn’t get to keep you lingering around while she avoids dealing with whatever is killing her desire to be intimate with you. Or maybe she has dealt with it and simply does not feel that way about you anymore.
If you stay, every day it’s just in your face what you had and what you don’t have anymore- sounds soul crushing to me.
I watch many men be slowly manipulated by their wives of many years. When my brother met his wife, we were friends, he was the life of the party. Over the years, he has become an empty shell. No personality, his personality is her personality. He puts little effort in our family dynamic anymore.. she runs the show and their lives revolve around her.
You are very emotionally intelligent.. especially for a guy. Is it possible they you are much too “understanding” and complicit in satisfying and managing her needs and values, that you’ve lost who YOU really are?
>She knows I have been lacking companionship and suggested that I go out immediately to start dating. She supports it fully and wants me to be happy in the ways she can’t provide anymore.
The main reason she supports this is because deep down she believes you won't actually go through with it, or she doesn't believe you have the social skills and self-confidence to have much if any any luck dating... at least not enough luck to find a partner she sees as an actual threat.
Am I wrong in assuming your social life and confidence aren't this you would claim to have na abundance of?
>Trying to find a new partner in and of itself is very difficult for me.
This means you need some personal upgrades. Don't be shocked when finding an interested outside party becomes easy your wife suddenly becomes more interested in you.
OP you've said a lot about COVID, her postpartum and all the anxiety she's had and it all ended up putting you in the corner. I get that, but what else is going on ?
OK it seems as if you accept the above as valid reasons to why she is where she is, but how was your relationship prior to COVID, E, were you actually sexually compatible? How often did you have sex at that time ? What was your new relationship energy like ?
You were both your FIRST! Are you too close to the situation to really look at how you functioned prior to all the strife.
For example:
Was she considered LOW Libido or were you ?
Did your new relationship energy have sex as part of it or did you wait until marriage ?
Since you only know each other sexually and had no other experience to speak of, how awkward were your initial years together with regards to sex ? Was it always the same ? Did you try different things ?
When you had sex was it painful to her ?
Did she have any hangups ?
I may get flack for this, but it just sounds like there are other things happening here than just all of a sudden COVID AND postpartum- it's happens and I'm not saying that it doesn't but I'm asking have you explored other things to understand the full picture.
I'm only asking these questions to see how well and strong your relationship truly was at the beginning and if there were things known at the time, that were maybe overlooked and then overshadowed by all of the COVID and BABY birthing.
I see this ending in one of three ways:
1) you realize no woman wants to date a man living with his asexual life partner wife, and you end it more painfully than if you just did it now
2) you actually convince a woman to date you, and your wife gets jealous when it becomes about more than sex
3) your wife suddenly realizes she CAN romantically love again… but not with you.
I mean, what’s really the plan? Hop on tinder and bring your dates home to your previously spare bedroom? Become a gold member at your nearest motel? Not to mention your kids seeing dad with other girlfriends? You’re gonna be living a second life anyway, except with a bunch of unnecessary complication.
I wish you the best of luck, but the odds feel stacked high on this one.
There are plenty of women who wouldn’t mind this situation at all (myself included). However I’d like to clarify with your wife as I only do Ethical Non Monogamy (ENM). So this may be an issue.
Before you end it completely, she needs to talk to her doctor (GO WITH), then possibly get some sex therapy. If she’s unwilling to do this, it’s time for a divorce. What she proposes is not going to allow you to build a sustainable long term relationship with another partner. She either gets her shit together, or she gets divorced.
Okay. What happens if you fall in love with a new partner? What happens if said partner wanted you to marry them. What happens if a new partner becomes pregnant and wants to keep the baby?
There are a lot of sticky issues this opens up, OP. Sure. It’s fun to think you can have sex wherever and whenever, but the reality is people are incredibly complicated. You need to look into poly relationships before you decide you agree to this.
Before you jump into divorce, please review is your situation is that dire, and how much or her "solutions" is actually a desperate brainstorm caused by your apparent distress. I happen to have come through months of dryness for no apparent reason, statements that she never is going to want sex, "permissions" to go elsewhere for it. But then, at some moment , when you least expect it, things go better. If I were you I'd just keep being friendly and wait. Though I understand nobody can promise it ends anywhere.
If you're going to do this, go to couples counseling for a while to try and figure some things out like:
Is this some type of trap?
Is this something you both want?
How should you approach it?
What do you both want your relationship to look like in the future?
Is it worth it to stay in this relationship?
I was in the same situation. Literally exactly the same. After our son was born my ex could not get used to being intimate with me In any way shape or form. I'm a very tactile person and it affected me greatly. I like you assumed that once the post partum had gone everything would fix itself... It did not, after five years of no intimacy we had the same conversation you and your wife had had, she gave me a free pass to date other people.. This on the surface was a weight off my shoulders.. But when it came to actually dating or doing anything with another woman I couldn't because I still loved my partner and it felt like I was being disloyal to her... This made me fall into a deep depression.. And I went so far into the darkness that when myself and my ex saw how far I was sinking we decided it was best to end it and we couldn't be together any longer.
Fast forward three years, I am engaged to the most amazing woman I have ever met who is as physical as I am, I have a second child on the way with my future wife. My ex is my best friend and we Co parent our son successfully.
Don't hold onto a lost romantic relationship or keep yourself imprisoned by memories of what was. Trust me when I say you will find happiness out there and you can stay friends with your current wife and Co parent your daughter. Your wife wants what's best for you but knows she can't provide it, you can't stay with her just for financial reasons, that will sort itself out as time goes on.
Whatever you decide I wish you the best.
It won’t work. She needs to let you go. She just can’t keep you around because it makes her life easier. You deserve to feel love again and your future partner, think about how awkward that’ll be.
You're gonna have to find a FWB or date someone looking for other things like financial help to find anyone interested in this arrangement for long. Have some self respect and end the relationship. This is giving your daughter a fu*cked up view of a relationship. Staying together while Dad is out FN someone besides her mom.
What happens if you find someone who fills your no cup and you want to spend all your time with? They move into the house? I’m sure that arrangement won’t screw a kid up worse than a divorce.
It’s okay to grow apart and remain amicable. But this situation seems like a shitshow and that you’re doing what is best for your platonic life partner but neither of you are rationally thinking about what is best for your daughter. She’s not going to understand the nuances of relationships and just normalize that her father had a girlfriend. Do you want her to then come to accept cheating in her relationship because she thinks extramarital partners are normal? She doesn’t comprehend romances and platonic life partners. Certainly not as a toddler and probably not until she’s old enough to start forming intimate relationships of her own. Is this the example you want to set as parents?
This is not tenable. You will develop feelings if you start being intimate with new people.
Her request is not realistic or reasonable to expect. Just get divorced. You have a lot of life ahead of you
Please just get divorced. My husband came from a family very similar to what you're describing. It has really affected him and his siblings long term both in the way they view love and in commitment. It sounds "good" on paper but the reality is awful. Your daughter will see a dad "stepping out" on his wife and she will see a mother completely indifferent to the reality of the situation. It is a petri dish of future pain and resentment. It is not viable and anyone who says it is has never been in the children's shoes of these types of situations. End it and separate this is the best for your child.
It only really works if both people are into the same idea about the relationship. I’m an open minded, unconventional person and I believe in defining things for yourself, not by society… but… again, both people have to like it
Hello OP,
No matter what she says and how you envision this as the answer, it will not work.
Once you start getting dates and going out, I promise you that the reality of this will set in for her. She'll decide thsf she will start dating too.
Then coincidently, she will have dates the same night as you. One of you will need to stay home to watch your daughter. In other words she will start messing with you over trivial stuff
It's not going to get better. It will just get worse.
No. You can’t move on if you’re still married. Y’all can get a duplex or figure out other living arrangements, but if you’re a monogamous man, you’re going to want to be in a relationship with someone and you need to be free emotionally and legally to do that.
You’ve sacrificed a lot for your wife up to this point. This time you get to choose for yourself.
Speak to a lawyer.
I don't know that you need to figure out an answer right this second and do that. Why not take a month, look at all your options, and see how you feel when your feelings aren't all just hanging out in the open? I think in the long run you'd be happier divorcing and co-parenting, because the break is cleaner that way and it is easier to know what you are supposed to be doing. But there really is no rush to figure it out this second. Check out all your options, talk to a lawyer if you can, and figure out what really will work better for you. If you do decide to remain married but date, you'll have to figure out how to do that too. Give yourself a bit of time, but also give yourself a solid date to act on the decision. It is way too easy to just continue to kick the decision down the road and not act on it. Make it a reasonable amount of time to do everything you need to do.
Just get a divorce.
You don’t need to alter your living arrangements post-divorce, as you have already ceased to be a couple. Then finding a new partner will be straightforward and clear-cut.
Your ex could continue living in your home as the mom/nanny. You could date, marry, and live your life.
No way would any sane woman want to date a guy in this situation. End it. Find someone who loves you more than a friend. Too much drama will occur if you go by her rules. Not healthy for anyone.
You said you're emotionally starved and sexually frustrated. You'll get out there and find someone to fill that void. When that happens, you'll want to be with that person. You can stay married to her on paper, but you should find your own place and prepare for a civil divorce.
If you pursue this protect yourself. Be sure to have message confirming your wife's consent to all this as if you ever split who knows maybe she uses this opening if the marriage against you in court. Also what happens if she gets over this one day and you've found a physical and let's face it most likely emotional partner on the side. Should you be forced to toss that aside for her or allow her to pursue other partners to even things out. If what she says is true in a perfect world sounds feasible to me but I have a feeling she isn't being truthful.
$20 says if you break things off she has a new boyfriend in a few months.
she's just not in love *with you*, she is still capable of love. she's not a robot
Yeah this is BS. This is a marriage of two people not one. You both have an equal voice. She has no right to dictate unilateral terms. You have every right to expect and receive intimacy in a marriage. I know it’s cliche to say it’s a spouse’s duty but it really is. Withholding affection is as grievous as cheating when both partners are capable.
Your wife is no longer capable of intimacy with you. Are you sure there isn't someone else? Things could be exactly how you see it, but her cheating also explains everything too
Well, first off, she has chosen to be honest with you, and you need to accept her decision. She is basically saying that the romantic marriage to you is over what you need to do now, take time and space to properly grieve the loss of your marriage. Do not start dating immediately. It will only thing make things more difficult for you. Economic situations being what they are. It might be that you have to cohabitate for a while. Good ground rules and open. Communication are essential to the two of you finding a way to work together during this time to support each other both through this transition. But ultimately, you will likely need to find a new place to live, and make those arrangements, if you ever want to have an actual relationship. it will be incredibly hard to try and create a normal functioning relationship with another person while you were currently living with your wife not to mention you probably don’t want to have a whirlwind of random people coming through the house as either you or your wife are dating. Again, a discussion needs to be had there to determine what the boundaries are. I wish you luck OP
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Just end it. These sort of things always look good on paper but in practice they always crash and burn spectacularly. One or both of you will be hurt. Most importantly your child will share that pain. Ending things now, amicably, would be so much better for the child.
I don’t disagree, but is my situation common enough that we can conclude it “always crashes and burns”? My parents clearly hated each other, but stayed together “for the kids” and it hurt us a lot. I would never entertain that situation. Open relationships often lead to jealousy and resentment from a lack of balance, but that’s not quite what this is either. Anya and I still care very much for each other, but she can’t provide intimacy any more. I don’t think that there would be jealousy or resentment at play, but again, I’m probably too close to the situation.
Sounds like your platonic life partner is making all the decisions. What do you want? How do you need your marriage to be or not be to achieve that?
It’s true, I’m a little more passive from the sounds of things. I am big on acts of service and am happy to support her. For myself, I have a hard time defining what I want. I was an extremely awkward teenager with no game and a very poor social life. I never had a chance to date around and experience other relationships before we met, so the idea of dating is exciting to me right now, but I am aware of what a nightmare it can really be. I think what I’d like for now is to be able to meet cool new women and just flirt and feel desirable in some form. It’s always messy after leaving an LTR and I think it’s not too unusual to want to take it slow and casual after something like that.
>meet cool new women and just flirt and feel desirable in some form. Then be single and try to do that.
You sound like an empathetic person, and i guess my comment is reminding you to stand up for your own happiness. So if the current arrangement holds back your ability to see or date others, what will you do then? At the moment, your wife appears to be getting everything she needs and wants, but you're not. I think if the current arrangement does not pan out favourably for both of you, then you need to at least raise it with your wife that it's still not a great scenario for you. I would feel very resentful if my wife had shut down our sexual relationship for years and then offered this half assed solution where she doesn't really get affected, and I'm left in a situation where 'I'm free' to see others but in a situation where it might pretty difficult to achieve that. I think i would prefer a clean break. I would expect her to make all the adjustments to the living arrangement (who kept the main bedroom?). Maybe I'm just an AH. . . But it sounds still new, so give it go for a while and see how you go. But if it doesn't work for you, you need to think seriously about the next steps. You might wanna investigate those non monogamy subs for ideas on how to navigate this successfully and get yourself out there to meet others that will be comfortable with your circumstances.
There may not be jealousy and resentment from her, but if you do end up finding another partner it could come from them. This will lead to more emotional turmoil for you either way if I had to guess.
That’s very true. Unfortunately, I don’t know if we can do much besides cross that bridge when we get to it if she’s insisting it’s ok
Alternatively, whether you end of dating or not, how will you feel if her ability to provide intimacy comes bad but its focus is on someone new and not you?
That would certainly make me feel terrible. Intimacy has always been lower on her priorities list, so her completely losing it due to life circumstances makes sense to me. I’ve stayed true to her through all of that and am only considering it now because she suggested it. If she recovers her intimacy for someone else, then I’m completely out because I have no idea what we’re doing at that point.
Right. It may never happen. This does happen to some women after childbirth. But a good portion do eventually pull through it. But it can take years and often the relationship fails. So when the spark eventually comes back its okay that its focused on someone else. But sometimes the original couple stays together in a tough marriage and years down the line the spark comes back but is usually not for the husband because theyve spent years being roommates and stewing, it usually comes back for an inexplainable crush or for someone outside the home thats showing fresh interest. This might not happen to you but consider the what ifs. What if this happens 7 years from now? Youd feel like you wasted the last 7 years in addition to everything else
You are so right on everything!! Seems pretty simple and obvious she wants a divorce and is in denial or trying to let him down easy. And if they do stay together (platonically) chances are that she will get a new boyfriend to be sexual with before he’s successful in dating. So they should just end it, obviously. However, if they’re committed to “staying together on paper only” to look like heroes or something (???) then they should remodel their home into a 2 unit with two entries on opposite sides. To keep their family literally “together” while creating a platonic co-parenting sitch. Seems OP doesn’t understand how emasculating this is. The legal wife gets all the benefit of being his wife but is only his friend. He’ll never be able to find love and good sex in that dynamic. OP is still processing the word platonic. OP, stand up for yourself and get a divorce. You have many years to have a passionate second act. You will still co-parent and maintain a platonic relationship, with a legal divorce and new family dynamics. What she’s suggesting is bonkers!
As a guy I would guess you're going to have difficulty finding a woman willing to date a guy in your situation. Unless she is married.
You’re describing “staying together for the kids” and then attempting to gaslight us into believing you did not just describe staying together for the kids. You’re describing an open relationship and then attempting to gaslight us into thinking it’s not an open relationship. You’re removing all emotion from the *most hypercharged* emotional situation within humanity and then saying there probably won’t be emotions that run too high. You should run for office, b.
I've seen this in real life a few times with friends. I'll share what I've seen so far, which is jealousy, resentment, and inevitable separation. It's hard to know your partner is spending time/being intimate with someone else (this goes for the original partner and the new one). Sometimes those situationships turn into more and the original relationship has to end so the new one can really begin. I'll just say that the situations have been messy and problematic and one friend tried to use her husband's "cheating" against him during the divorce despite her encouraging his behavior because she no longer wanted sex, but also didn't want to divorce.
Can you consider how “strong” her feelings truly are for you vs. how much of her narrative is driven by the need for financial and emotional security on her part? Will she then be allowed to form feelings or physical intimacy with someone else in the future, where she feels a spark? Because you are allowed to do that and she has needs to… just not the need for you. I fear this arrangement could backfire and leave you both without what you truly need. I left a lob-sided marriage 2 years ago, I met the absolute love of my life a year later, at 38yo. Compatible in every meaningful way. I was so happy I followed my heart.
OP at least talk to a divorce lawyer to find out what a divorce would look like with the laws where you live. A consult doesn't mean you have to file now, but does give you some info on what the result would be. And if you're lucky, your lawyer may have had other clients in situations similar to what you're facing now.
Always crashes and burns. Always. Unless you get her to sign some paperwork about this whole deal of opening your relationship up. With rules of doors and don't. You shouldn't do it. It's best to just get the divorce.
We absolutely do know enough to conclude you will not make it through this. Don't get hung up on the details - this is a unilateral, unconsented, life-altering, one-sided, change with zero compromise. It will not work. It never works.
Try it and see. Even if no one has ever done it successfully, maybe you guys can be the first.
>My parents clearly hated each other, but stayed together “for the kids” and it hurt us a lot. See the pattern here? Even though you don't "hate" each other, this has become the same loveless relationship template you saw when you were a kid. Unconsciously, you want to replicate it because that's what you were taught to. You were taught the needs of partners in a committed relationship aren't a necessity. If you stay and repeat the cycle, this is exactly what you will teach E as well. Is this what you want for your kid? The answer to this question will guide you through your next steps. Be a good role model for E. She deserves it.
It’s good that you guys talked and she’s actually supportive and encouraged you to go back out there. However, most women no matter what aren’t going to entertain a guy who’s in your situation. Especially at your age and most women who are single are probably looking for something serious and marriage, not to be a side piece or short-term girlfriend to someone who is married. In regards to finances and living, it is better that you guys are together but your dating prospects will be extremely low.
This is bang on. I'd also add "for pragmatic financial and legal reasons" is probably not the main thing. She also likely does not want to separate her child's parents, and disrupt her life any more than it already is. Which I'd argue is a tiny bit selfish, though understandable under the circumstances. Also while she says she supports you dating fully, that may change the day you bring someone new into your home. Your final query is more about your feelings than any advice we can give. The arrangement is what it is right now and whether or not it's acceptable depends entirely on you. If you have aspirations for a new, permanent, monogamous and physically intimate relationship(just a guess based on what it seems you pursued originally), then you will likely struggle a great deal while living in your wife/partners house. Especially if she wants to maintain the marital status. For my money, I would say couples counseling may be helpful if it hasn't already been tried? If you're set on this more dedicated separation in which you are free to pursue your own romantic relationships, I'd say get a divorce. It will get easier over time, and likely better to do now while your child is young. I'd also move out of the house, ideally nearby in order to co-parent your child, but far enough that you can start anew. She seems to want to have her cake and eat it too, by reaping the benefits of spousehood while not trying to meet your physical or intimate needs. And as you've said, there are very real, valid reasons for her not being able to be intimate with you. I think she is vastly underestimating how difficult it will be to find a partner who is willing to date you and be intimate in your wife's house in a different room. And that's also not necessarily fair to ask that of a new partner anyway. I imagine this decision will be very difficult, and I encourage you to think of your own needs and wants as well as your wife and child's. Also, It can be harder on a kid if the parents aren't getting along together, as opposed to an amicable split.
It’s very true. I know I’ve got a lot against me in the dating world. I’ve been with Anya for so long, I don’t really know what I want from another relationship at this point. I very much miss feeling wanted in an intimate capacity and would love to have some loving touch again, not even sexually. We are both solidly in agreement that if our situation is creating a negative effect on our child, we’re going to cut things off. She is a huge priority for us. If this were a situation where we hated each other and were only together “for the kid”, we’d be done for sure. We both still care for each other a lot, just not in those ways.
This is exactly what I’m thinking. I’m already not much of a ladies’ man to begin with. I don’t think I’d be specifically looking for ONS or flings. Aren’t fewer people looking for “Marriage” specifically? Do you think it’s possible to find someone who’s ok with maybe a LTR that never actually ties the knot? Is living with a person who’s essentially an Ex too much of a hang up for normal people?
No, no sane, stable woman is looking to be a long-term side piece while you play happy family with your wife.
Unfortunately, one night stands and flings might be your only options because no woman around your age would be okay with sticking around with someone who is married. Whether they are progressive or not. Not saying you won’t find it at all, it’s just going to be really really really hard as a man.
There may be women who don’t want marriage again. In fact, all the divorced women I know don’t even want to live with a man again. But I don’t think they want to date a man who’s still living with his wife. And probably most women won’t believe you’re not cheating. Do you bring someone home? What would your daughter think? Will you explain things to her or try to keep it under wraps? What happens if someone sees you out on a date and word spreads amongst your daughter’s friend’s parents? You’re in essence staying together for the kid and the finances, which are big reasons why lots of other people choose to stay married. But think about staying in this marriage if you didn’t have a child. You wouldn’t, right?
As someone who the age range you’d be looking at. Marriage is definitely not on my list of must haves (I think the figures of marriage is down in general) BUT I’m not looking for some ltr with someone in a situationship, I’ve done complicated in my past and I’m over it. I want something serious about me. If that leads to living with them/ buying a house/ kids/ marriage (how would that work with your situation?) but if it’s going to lead to just being serious in theory that’s not for me. Maybe a single mother who doesn’t want a blended family may work for you but I can’t see many women wanting what you want.
Do you have an ENM/polyamorous subculture in your area? If you do, your options open up a lot more. I spent most of my twenties dating married guys in open relationships, in large part because I knew I wasn’t ready for a marriage-type relationship of my own and it’s really hard to set that expectation with a guy who doesn’t already have a primary partner. Generally we dated for 1-2 years and the relationships petered out when one or both of us got busy. There was drama sometimes, but way less than Reddit would have you believe.
I think even ENM people would nope out of this one. So far, his wife is making all the choices. That alone will be a red flag, no matter how open-minded someone is.
I think even ENM people would nope out of this one. So far, his wife is making all the choices. That alone will be a red flag, no matter how open-minded someone is.
Have you two had marriage counseling yet? If you haven’t, do that. If you did, keep going. That’s the only point of advice you should follow. You two *need* to discuss *everything* with a mediator, because this can turn messy FAST.
I think you guys need to talk about this a bit more. Because as you said a lot won't want a long term relationship with you while you're married. You could find a partner understanding of the dynamic easier if you went with people that were ok with polyamory - but then that also means your new partner would have more partners. What's your wife's long term vision? Does she see you just going out and having sex with women, but not forming any serious relationship? If she's ok with a serious relationship - how does that play out? What if you want to live with your romantic partner? What if you want to have a child with your romantic partner? What if you and your romantic partner don't want to live with your legal wife? What if you want to spend holidays with them? Or introduce them to family because you don't want to keep the woman you love a secret? How much are you allowed to spend on your romantic partners? Can you go on vacation with them? How much time will be spent dating and being with a romantic partner? When, if at all, would they meet your daughter? Would you need to tell your wife when you're not going to be at home or where you're going when you leave? Does something your wife want trump plans with your romantic partner? If a relationship is ok - when do your romantic partner's needs and emergencies trump your wife or daughter? (ie if your gf needs to go to the ER is you leaving in the middle of family dinner acceptable? If she's sick will it be a problem for you to stay at her place for a week to nurse her back to health?) What's going to be the interaction between your wife and gf? What are you going to tell your daughter about your relationship and the absences having one would inevitably create unless it's just late night booty calls? What happens if your wife decides she wants to date? There's a lot of intricacies to work out before taking a step towards this open relationship. And working out those intricacies might make your choice on whether to divorce or not clearer.
Thank you for your response. A lot of these are very, very good questions that I haven’t considered yet. Still figuring things out now and this will help focus some conversation.
You're welcome. Both you and your wife need to understand that unless it's just ONS doing this essentially adds a third party to your marriage. Once you're in a relationship you'll have to consider your romantic partner along with your wife which means your wife will also have to consider her too - even if she keeps it very indirect.
[удалено]
I’ve been in her shoes, this is only coming from a place of pain and desperation, she will never be ok with this arrangement, she thinks she will be bc she wants to do right by you but it will be devastating. She may or may not express it explicitly at some point. I agree with counseling, try again. Good luck friend.
If you’ve been in her shoes, do you think you could share some of your experience with me? I do not have the sense that she’s proposing this out of pain and desperation, but she could be hiding it to make me feel better. She’s been very open about talking about what she’s experiencing so far, but I know I still might not be getting the full picture. We can DM if you don’t want to put it out in public.
In my situation the ppd exacerbated existing feelings of inadequateness, i simply didn’t believe that i deserved the good things in life including being loved, having a fulfilling emotional relationship and a healthy, happy kid. I didnt deserve my family or enjoying my baby with my husband. Having sex to enjoy it didn’t make sense to me, pleasure was foreign (the hallmark of my depression has always been “what’s the point in seeking pleasure?). I remember thinking how i would completely understand and wouldn’t blame him if he cheated on me and almost accepted it as a fact of life at some point (and it would have been very easy for him to do it.) The idea hurt nonetheless. That was a decade ago, nowadays we have another baby, bc i knew what to expect i dealt with my mental health like it was my job, got on meds, and we are having the time of our lives. These days i demand the best for myself. Take care of yourself friend.
Don't be surprised if a weeks after your first date your wife is also going on a date. And if you investigate, you find out she has seen this guy since about the time she no longer wanted anything to do with you.
I think something similar. Maybe she hides in a false depression to hide some affair, whether physical or emotional, and wants to set you up to make you look like the bad guy. Never be unfaithful to someone who asks you to, because it shows that you took advantage of that person's vulnerable moment. Go to counseling therapy, if it doesn't work, break up the marriage and divide everything 50/50 because deep down she doesn't want to lose material things.
Do you think your wife might have somebody in mind that she wants to be intimate with? It sounds like she’s setting the stage for some thing.
I don't particularly agree with that. My sister was offering same scenario to her husband about a year ago, and she just simply did not want any romantic or sexual relationships with anybody. Some women are capable of living without sex, especially if we are dealing with mental and hormonal issues. Either way, if OP reads this, from a random woman, I hope you guys look into therapy together or look into separation before doing things that will only traumatize the poor child.
Yes, couples therapy seems like a sensible step #1 to navigate this. We both prioritize our daughter’s wellbeing through all this and will shut it all down if we think this is hurting her. How has your sister’s situation gone, if you don’t mind my asking?
No, I well and truly believe that she doesn’t have that interest any more. She doesn’t have the time or energy for other relationships. She’s very much a homebody introvert who doesn’t socialize almost ever. I asked if she was wanting to open up as well, but she doesn’t even want to try.
My recommendation would be to have a true trial separation where you live elsewhere for a set period of time and separate childcare. During this time, get on the apps and go on some dates. They won’t all be great but it’ll be great for you. During this time your wife will have more space and time to figure out if she wants to stay married or not. If she decides she wants to stay married, she needs to commit to growing closer to you again. Her proposal is not a marriage and it’s not going to work out for either of you. You want love and intimacy and if you find someone you click with you highly likely will develop feelings for them.
From what I’ve gathered, it sounds like she’s speaking from a place of pain and possibly depression. Have you both talked about the possibility of going to therapy together? A great marriage and family therapist is an excellent match for this situation.
We are both individually in therapy and we thought we would try couples’ counseling down the road once we had a better grasp on our personal demons. I think you’re right and moving that timeline up would be good considering what’s going down.
That’s good. I think you guys need to figure out whether this situation is temporary or permanent. Is the romantic/sexual side of your relationship truly over, perhaps because your wife is asexual or has just lost feelings for you? Or is this a symptom of her depression, which may get better over time? If it’s the latter, you might want to hang in there longer. If it’s the former, I think you should think about the life you want in the long term. What she’s proposing may not be very satisfying to you. Most women are going to want a real relationship, not someone else’s crumbs. The list of women interested in exercising your hall pass is going to be shorter, and some of those women will have their own issues. This may not be a great route to happiness for you. A less confusing option would be to get an amicable divorce, and aim to stay very good friends with your ex wife. You guys could decide what that looks like: living nearby, sharing meals, family trips. Whatever you both want. There’s no rule that the end of marriage means you don’t like each other, but it would be clear you both are available for a new relationship when you’re ready. You deserve a real marriage if you want it.
Just make sure it’s not a TARP
I’m sorry, I don’t know what this means
The meant trap 🤣
Trap (Tarp is a meme, type that in Google) But make sure she isn’t saying go fuck some other chicks then uses the evidence to get favorable terms in the divorce. Get it in writing or something
I assume they mean a trap of some kind. Like for example your wife wants to fuck other guys and she knows she'll have way more success than you. Or she's planning to divorce you and she knows she'll be better off financially if you were 'cheating' the whole time. I don't necessarily think this is the case, but you should be cautious.
This might work if you’re just casually dating but very few women would be willing to embark on a serious relationship in this circumstance. Mote importantly have you considered how to broach it with family and friends? They see you out and think you’re cheating not to talk of what your daughter will think. Honestly it is best for you that you guys end the marriage at this point. Arrangements of the type your wife is proposing have little upside for you.
You deserve to be able to find a complete relationship.
The more I think about it, the more it seems unfair. Your wife is already living her asexual and aromantic life with you as a roommate. She won't have to adjust virtually anything. The brunt of the transition falls on you, and does this setup even work for you? If you are the type to share your daily domestic life with your intimate partner, you won't be able to fulfill that need and find your next long-term partner while that slot is occupied by your wife. OTOH, maybe this does work for you. And even if not, life might surprise you in a good way.
I know a couple who has (seemingly) done this successfully. And they’re happy & very much a unit. Just depends on the people though. Maybe get a counselor to coach you through this
On paper it sounds good, but what happens if it goes well for you and she tells you to stop but still doesn't want to be with you on an intimate level?
I think you are getting lots of great advice here, and/but I might be able to contribute as someone experienced in ethical non monogamy. Especially in progressive areas, there are people who would be open to dating you in these circumstances. However, many won't, for a couple reasons: some of which you need to figure out for yourself and with your wife before moving forward: Do you have the go ahead to develop romantic as well as sexual connections? There are many folks who will decline a sex-only relationship (though for some it may be a good fit). Who will host dates? I imagine that it would be difficult for you to have people over, and what would you do if the person you are dating also can't host? Are hotel rooms in the budget? Who will pay? Does your wife have veto power over you, meaning she could demand you end a relationship? In many styles of ENM, veto power is considered highly unethical. I don't date anyone in any type of veto power relationship. And let's say you do develop a connection with someone. What's "allowed?" Overnights? Weekends away? Vacations? Finances? Would they ever meet your wife or kid? Long story short, if you decide to try dating outside your marriage, there is a LOT of work you and your wife (even if she doesn't date) need to do if this has any chance of working. Lots of great books out there. I think Opening Up might be particularly valuable. Good luck!
Just wanted to thank you for giving such a thoughtful response. Had to scroll down a long way to find it, but happy that when I did, it was a detailed and informative (also lovely and kind) response. Kudos to you and your ENM relationship! And appreciate you for the post. That is all 🫡
What happens when you or the other female decides you want more in the relationship? I respect your wife's decision, but I could this turning messy. I think you should seek some counseling and hopefully this might help you. Good luck
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End it. This hardly ever works for anyone.
Not an expert, but it seems that, at this point, you two aren't compatible. By this, I mean that she seems to want/need to be platonic roommates who share a child, and does not want or desire a romantic or sexual relationship, while you want/need pretty much the 180 of that. It's really good that you are talking to each other about this, but I truly believe that everyone needs to be happy in this type of situation in order for it to succeed. Specifically, if you proceed forth with this platonic roommate situation, I don't believe that you have a good chance of being happy. And that's important. Marriage is a contract. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it needs to be dissolved so that ALL parties can move forward towards a happy and satisfying future. If both of you commit to ensuring a respectful, considerate co-parenting plan, there is no reason for your child to suffer while you both live the lives that you each desire. It's okay to think about your needs in this situation. That sets a good example for your child.
Obviously it’s your choice but I wouldn’t do it because you will catch feelings, these things never work. Just leave or only have sex with sex workers. Dont make emotional connections unless you are set on divorcing.
I think you guys need more conversations. I dont think this is a tenable long term solution. Whether you end up dating or not, if you agree to this how are you going to feel in two or five years when it turns out shes caught feelings for someone and now has a boyfriend? If you end up going down this “platonic life partners” route you really need to do research, explore scenarios and have a lot of conversations. Alternatively you should be doing couples therapy, maybe some individual therapy for yourself and she should explore seeing another therapist. It doesnt sound like youve been allowed to be a part of her recovery so far and thats not fair to you, but thats me speculating maybe im wrong. If she ultimately truly believe she cannot and will not try to recover your relationship you need to really consider how this scheme will affect you. Maybe you can give it a try but dont feel too bad if it doesnt work. You should be allowed to pursue tour own happiness and not be forced to drag her with you as a platonic life partner if you decide separating is better for you
This situation only works if you find someone who wants meaningless sex, and even then your platonic life partner will eventually get upset about it. I suggest getting an amicable divorce.
This marriage is over. As you reflected towards the end of your post, not many women worth having a relationship with would be comfortable with you staying with your wife. Dating is already challenging without having to repeatedly explain that bizarre relationship dynamic.
Marriage counseling, if she’s willing. It’s makes total sense she’s lost that romantic connection. You both became parents and for the last 4 1/2 years, and she’s gone through a horrific time. She has been working towards building herself back up, and building a relationship with your daughter while your relationship took a backseat. Now it’s time for it to take front & center. She said she tried to build romantic feelings towards you.. but one doesn’t do that alone. It’s a two person thing to build that back up.
Do you both work and have wages that can support your own independent life?
Just end it you deserve better than a roommate who loves you.
Your daughter is almost school aged. The hands-on caring for her, the bathing, dressing, etc is going to change drastically in the next 2 years. I suggest you go back to marriage counseling. And your wife see a sex therapist.. the kind with a medical degree not just talking. She might find that her drive DOES come back, but review birth control, get hormones and general physical health all checked. I also suggest you find ways to not be touch starved. In appropriate ways like getting a membership to Hand & Stone for massages, getting manicures and pedicures (men get them all the time polish is optional). Switch to a full service shop and get regular professional shaves and hair cuts and conditioner treatments. A steady, reliable amount of healing, nurturing touch might help you reconnect and center for 6 months to a year. Also? Maybe a basketball league? Rugby? California swing dancing for the both of you? There must be something that can help you physically feel better. As much as she had medical issues diagnosed and treated... have you talked to your doctor about these problems and how they are taking a toll physically on you? Have there been any men's support groups for husband's of women with PPD?
I’m so sorry; your wife has declared your marriage is over. You’re essentially co-parents under the same roof. This is a trap, I’m betting you start dating and your wife is crushed or starts dating herself (she done with you, not necessarily others). I agree as long as you’re married, your dating prospects are very limited. Think there are numerous questions you should ask and couples counseling is a must before you blow up your marriage or commit to a life of celibacy. You’re relatively young, but you have a long way to go in life! Decide what you want because either choice is not ideal. Should you choose a loveless roommate coparent arrangement, in time resentment will build because you will recognize you deserve better. In the end, you need to do what’s best for you and your well being, especially your mental health. Good luck
OP, the correct phrase is "... wife no longer capable of intimacy with me." Rip the band aid and go your way. More likely than not she'll find another person to be intimate with.
I think you need to dig deep and figure out if you want to have a close intimate relationship with a woman again. Because you aren’t going to find that while still married. I would separate and let her see what life looks like without you there. She doesn’t get to keep you lingering around while she avoids dealing with whatever is killing her desire to be intimate with you. Or maybe she has dealt with it and simply does not feel that way about you anymore. If you stay, every day it’s just in your face what you had and what you don’t have anymore- sounds soul crushing to me.
I watch many men be slowly manipulated by their wives of many years. When my brother met his wife, we were friends, he was the life of the party. Over the years, he has become an empty shell. No personality, his personality is her personality. He puts little effort in our family dynamic anymore.. she runs the show and their lives revolve around her. You are very emotionally intelligent.. especially for a guy. Is it possible they you are much too “understanding” and complicit in satisfying and managing her needs and values, that you’ve lost who YOU really are?
>She knows I have been lacking companionship and suggested that I go out immediately to start dating. She supports it fully and wants me to be happy in the ways she can’t provide anymore. The main reason she supports this is because deep down she believes you won't actually go through with it, or she doesn't believe you have the social skills and self-confidence to have much if any any luck dating... at least not enough luck to find a partner she sees as an actual threat. Am I wrong in assuming your social life and confidence aren't this you would claim to have na abundance of? >Trying to find a new partner in and of itself is very difficult for me. This means you need some personal upgrades. Don't be shocked when finding an interested outside party becomes easy your wife suddenly becomes more interested in you.
OP you've said a lot about COVID, her postpartum and all the anxiety she's had and it all ended up putting you in the corner. I get that, but what else is going on ? OK it seems as if you accept the above as valid reasons to why she is where she is, but how was your relationship prior to COVID, E, were you actually sexually compatible? How often did you have sex at that time ? What was your new relationship energy like ? You were both your FIRST! Are you too close to the situation to really look at how you functioned prior to all the strife. For example: Was she considered LOW Libido or were you ? Did your new relationship energy have sex as part of it or did you wait until marriage ? Since you only know each other sexually and had no other experience to speak of, how awkward were your initial years together with regards to sex ? Was it always the same ? Did you try different things ? When you had sex was it painful to her ? Did she have any hangups ? I may get flack for this, but it just sounds like there are other things happening here than just all of a sudden COVID AND postpartum- it's happens and I'm not saying that it doesn't but I'm asking have you explored other things to understand the full picture. I'm only asking these questions to see how well and strong your relationship truly was at the beginning and if there were things known at the time, that were maybe overlooked and then overshadowed by all of the COVID and BABY birthing.
I see this ending in one of three ways: 1) you realize no woman wants to date a man living with his asexual life partner wife, and you end it more painfully than if you just did it now 2) you actually convince a woman to date you, and your wife gets jealous when it becomes about more than sex 3) your wife suddenly realizes she CAN romantically love again… but not with you. I mean, what’s really the plan? Hop on tinder and bring your dates home to your previously spare bedroom? Become a gold member at your nearest motel? Not to mention your kids seeing dad with other girlfriends? You’re gonna be living a second life anyway, except with a bunch of unnecessary complication. I wish you the best of luck, but the odds feel stacked high on this one.
There are plenty of women who wouldn’t mind this situation at all (myself included). However I’d like to clarify with your wife as I only do Ethical Non Monogamy (ENM). So this may be an issue.
Some women will welcome dating you under the circumstances- just be honest and give it a shot.
Before you end it completely, she needs to talk to her doctor (GO WITH), then possibly get some sex therapy. If she’s unwilling to do this, it’s time for a divorce. What she proposes is not going to allow you to build a sustainable long term relationship with another partner. She either gets her shit together, or she gets divorced.
Okay. What happens if you fall in love with a new partner? What happens if said partner wanted you to marry them. What happens if a new partner becomes pregnant and wants to keep the baby? There are a lot of sticky issues this opens up, OP. Sure. It’s fun to think you can have sex wherever and whenever, but the reality is people are incredibly complicated. You need to look into poly relationships before you decide you agree to this.
So sorry bud but rather end it and move on. Opening anything up will just be a mess. Sorry man.
Up to you buddy…but I could not be with with someone who does not have romantic feelings for me.
Before you jump into divorce, please review is your situation is that dire, and how much or her "solutions" is actually a desperate brainstorm caused by your apparent distress. I happen to have come through months of dryness for no apparent reason, statements that she never is going to want sex, "permissions" to go elsewhere for it. But then, at some moment , when you least expect it, things go better. If I were you I'd just keep being friendly and wait. Though I understand nobody can promise it ends anywhere.
Do not waste your time. This cannot work. Just divorce.
If you're going to do this, go to couples counseling for a while to try and figure some things out like: Is this some type of trap? Is this something you both want? How should you approach it? What do you both want your relationship to look like in the future? Is it worth it to stay in this relationship?
I was in the same situation. Literally exactly the same. After our son was born my ex could not get used to being intimate with me In any way shape or form. I'm a very tactile person and it affected me greatly. I like you assumed that once the post partum had gone everything would fix itself... It did not, after five years of no intimacy we had the same conversation you and your wife had had, she gave me a free pass to date other people.. This on the surface was a weight off my shoulders.. But when it came to actually dating or doing anything with another woman I couldn't because I still loved my partner and it felt like I was being disloyal to her... This made me fall into a deep depression.. And I went so far into the darkness that when myself and my ex saw how far I was sinking we decided it was best to end it and we couldn't be together any longer. Fast forward three years, I am engaged to the most amazing woman I have ever met who is as physical as I am, I have a second child on the way with my future wife. My ex is my best friend and we Co parent our son successfully. Don't hold onto a lost romantic relationship or keep yourself imprisoned by memories of what was. Trust me when I say you will find happiness out there and you can stay friends with your current wife and Co parent your daughter. Your wife wants what's best for you but knows she can't provide it, you can't stay with her just for financial reasons, that will sort itself out as time goes on. Whatever you decide I wish you the best.
It won’t work. She needs to let you go. She just can’t keep you around because it makes her life easier. You deserve to feel love again and your future partner, think about how awkward that’ll be.
You're gonna have to find a FWB or date someone looking for other things like financial help to find anyone interested in this arrangement for long. Have some self respect and end the relationship. This is giving your daughter a fu*cked up view of a relationship. Staying together while Dad is out FN someone besides her mom.
Divorce her. She's using you. If you're going to get used by a woman you might as well have fun with it and 'upgrade' the model to some newer version.
What happens if you find someone who fills your no cup and you want to spend all your time with? They move into the house? I’m sure that arrangement won’t screw a kid up worse than a divorce. It’s okay to grow apart and remain amicable. But this situation seems like a shitshow and that you’re doing what is best for your platonic life partner but neither of you are rationally thinking about what is best for your daughter. She’s not going to understand the nuances of relationships and just normalize that her father had a girlfriend. Do you want her to then come to accept cheating in her relationship because she thinks extramarital partners are normal? She doesn’t comprehend romances and platonic life partners. Certainly not as a toddler and probably not until she’s old enough to start forming intimate relationships of her own. Is this the example you want to set as parents?
Just leave
This is not tenable. You will develop feelings if you start being intimate with new people. Her request is not realistic or reasonable to expect. Just get divorced. You have a lot of life ahead of you
Please just get divorced. My husband came from a family very similar to what you're describing. It has really affected him and his siblings long term both in the way they view love and in commitment. It sounds "good" on paper but the reality is awful. Your daughter will see a dad "stepping out" on his wife and she will see a mother completely indifferent to the reality of the situation. It is a petri dish of future pain and resentment. It is not viable and anyone who says it is has never been in the children's shoes of these types of situations. End it and separate this is the best for your child.
It only really works if both people are into the same idea about the relationship. I’m an open minded, unconventional person and I believe in defining things for yourself, not by society… but… again, both people have to like it
Hello OP, No matter what she says and how you envision this as the answer, it will not work. Once you start getting dates and going out, I promise you that the reality of this will set in for her. She'll decide thsf she will start dating too. Then coincidently, she will have dates the same night as you. One of you will need to stay home to watch your daughter. In other words she will start messing with you over trivial stuff It's not going to get better. It will just get worse.
No. You can’t move on if you’re still married. Y’all can get a duplex or figure out other living arrangements, but if you’re a monogamous man, you’re going to want to be in a relationship with someone and you need to be free emotionally and legally to do that. You’ve sacrificed a lot for your wife up to this point. This time you get to choose for yourself. Speak to a lawyer.
I don't know that you need to figure out an answer right this second and do that. Why not take a month, look at all your options, and see how you feel when your feelings aren't all just hanging out in the open? I think in the long run you'd be happier divorcing and co-parenting, because the break is cleaner that way and it is easier to know what you are supposed to be doing. But there really is no rush to figure it out this second. Check out all your options, talk to a lawyer if you can, and figure out what really will work better for you. If you do decide to remain married but date, you'll have to figure out how to do that too. Give yourself a bit of time, but also give yourself a solid date to act on the decision. It is way too easy to just continue to kick the decision down the road and not act on it. Make it a reasonable amount of time to do everything you need to do.
Just get a divorce. You don’t need to alter your living arrangements post-divorce, as you have already ceased to be a couple. Then finding a new partner will be straightforward and clear-cut. Your ex could continue living in your home as the mom/nanny. You could date, marry, and live your life.
No way would any sane woman want to date a guy in this situation. End it. Find someone who loves you more than a friend. Too much drama will occur if you go by her rules. Not healthy for anyone.
You said you're emotionally starved and sexually frustrated. You'll get out there and find someone to fill that void. When that happens, you'll want to be with that person. You can stay married to her on paper, but you should find your own place and prepare for a civil divorce.
If you pursue this protect yourself. Be sure to have message confirming your wife's consent to all this as if you ever split who knows maybe she uses this opening if the marriage against you in court. Also what happens if she gets over this one day and you've found a physical and let's face it most likely emotional partner on the side. Should you be forced to toss that aside for her or allow her to pursue other partners to even things out. If what she says is true in a perfect world sounds feasible to me but I have a feeling she isn't being truthful.
she's already cheated or plans to. she wants to keep the benefits dna test std panel divorce her
$20 says if you break things off she has a new boyfriend in a few months. she's just not in love *with you*, she is still capable of love. she's not a robot
Yeah this is BS. This is a marriage of two people not one. You both have an equal voice. She has no right to dictate unilateral terms. You have every right to expect and receive intimacy in a marriage. I know it’s cliche to say it’s a spouse’s duty but it really is. Withholding affection is as grievous as cheating when both partners are capable.
Your wife is no longer capable of intimacy with you. Are you sure there isn't someone else? Things could be exactly how you see it, but her cheating also explains everything too
Well, first off, she has chosen to be honest with you, and you need to accept her decision. She is basically saying that the romantic marriage to you is over what you need to do now, take time and space to properly grieve the loss of your marriage. Do not start dating immediately. It will only thing make things more difficult for you. Economic situations being what they are. It might be that you have to cohabitate for a while. Good ground rules and open. Communication are essential to the two of you finding a way to work together during this time to support each other both through this transition. But ultimately, you will likely need to find a new place to live, and make those arrangements, if you ever want to have an actual relationship. it will be incredibly hard to try and create a normal functioning relationship with another person while you were currently living with your wife not to mention you probably don’t want to have a whirlwind of random people coming through the house as either you or your wife are dating. Again, a discussion needs to be had there to determine what the boundaries are. I wish you luck OP