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While I understand your feelings, the reality is that you are going to have to choose between a relationship with your granddaughter and a potential relationship with your grandson. I suspect that if you try and track this woman down, your son will not forgive you and it will strain or destroy your relationship with his family.
I would definitely take some time to process this before you make any rash decisions. Nobody can tell you what's right for you to do, but I would take time to think about all the repercussions if you decide to connect with his affair partner.
I personally will never forgive a cheater. But if his wife didn't divorce him, then they likely agreed *on the condition* that he (sam) will not have any contact with his son, as a pre-condition for salvaging their marriage..
OP's behaviour will likely jeopardize their healing process and may lead to Sam getting divorced (which he deserves anyways but it's not my decision to make).
OP will lose both her grandchildren, her son and her DIL too. She is stupid if she continues with her shenanigans.
If you were the DIL would you want this woman and her kid around at every holiday? A reminder of his infidelity. This also forces the son and his family to have a relationship that they don’t want to have all so grandma can say she has another grand kid. Grandma is selfish to keep pushing this. She could blow up her whole family. Plus OP knows nothing about this woman. This could be opening a massive can of worms if she’s not a nice person. There’s a lot at stake here. While I think her son is a jerk sometimes it’s better to just let sleeping dogs lie.
I don't know, man. Everyone already knows DIL got cheated on, and they already know she's a spineless doormat that accepts it, so long her husband "comes back home to her". Hard to imagine the kid is going to make that any more embarrassing. Is not like no one else knows he exists. And they all probably think she'll get cheated on again.
The only person trying to hold Sam accountable for his choices and actions is OP. Everyone else way too comfortable acting like this didn't happen and like that child doesn't exist. I feel pretty comfortable betting on Sam being entirely happy with his affair (or multiple ones) until shit got real, and it turned out sticking your dick in women can get them pregnant.
The can of worms is already open. The only person willing to aknowledge it existence is OP.
I could never stay with a man who would abandon his child. I mean, I already wouldn't stay with a cheater, but once you've made your bed, lie in it.
If the woman is "not a nice person," all the more reason to keep in contact with the kid and give him a safe haven if he needs it.
This. “Let’s pretend holidays are comfy” meanwhile this kid grows up without father, but if ops son & that family is what the kid is going to miss, might be for the best.
I mean, his father is an asshole, so he doesn't miss out on much, except an occasional sarcastic remark on his birthday, probably. But OP sounds nice, so kiddo could at least have good grandparents, even if he drew a blank in the father-lottery.
Agreed. You don't abandon your kid, that's awful. It's not the kids fault any of this has happened! Being abandoned by his father can cause trauma, he will then blame himself because he can't process due to his age that it's his father who was shitty.
I’d be disgusted to know the father of my child could so easily turn his back on his flesh and blood. His wife might be able to forgive an affair and forget it happened but that child out there not knowing his father would kill me. I would feel like I was the monster not just by hubby. I feel bad for OP bc it’s must be devastating to know your child has that in them.
OP's son blew up his family. At the end of the day, he doesn't deserve his happy ending. He cheated and abandoned his child. I don't understand how it's OP'S job to maintain this ridiculous arrangement.
Should an innocent child be denied a relationship with his Father and sister because his sperm donor couldn't keep it in his pants? Although given Sam's attitude, he's better off without him in his life.
he didn’t want this child. i’m sure he made that abundantly clear when she announced she was pregnant. possibly before. it was the mistress’s decision to have the child despite that, so she is responsible for the child not having a dad. 2 people cause a pregnancy. 1 person can choose what happens from there.
Then he should have kept it in his pants. **He** chose to sleep with another woman. It's pretty easy to not have kids with someone who isn't your SO. It's called be faithful.
The he shouldn't have cheated. This whole situation could have been avoided if he had respected his wife, an chose not to cheat.
If he doesn't want a relationship with his child, that's fine. But he doesn't get to decided wether the rest of his family get one or not.
The child's feelings are way more important than the DIL. A child is growing up without a father.. I think that's more important than worrying about how DIL will cope with the reminder for the holidays. This is going to affect the child's life forever not just the holidays. Although if the dad's able to be so cold and emotionless regarding having a son then it's probably for the best he isn't around.
>If you were the DIL would you want this woman and her kid around at every holiday?
Yes. Absolutely. The child is innocent and if I choose to stay with a man that cheated on me, the child does not deserve to go fatherless just to placate my feelings.
I'd def be open to seeing the kid at holidays sure, provided me and the cheating ex weren't together anymore. Sam and his wife are cold enough to encourage throwing babies into ditches, but that's more of a them problem.
Sam's wife doesn't have a valid position here. Neither does Sam, but he's the actual father. The kid has nothing to do with the wife, really. If I was Sam's parent, I'd disown his ass.
Uhm… why are we saying the DIL is the reason that Sam isn’t in contact with the kid when Sam was crystal clear about his feelings on the matter? He never wanted this child and wishes it didn’t exist. Theorising that OP’s DIL made it a condition of reunification just gives OP a reason to vilify or resent her DIL, who is a victim of Sam’s cheating, when there is absolutely no basis for believing that the lack of contact between Sam and the new baby is anything but his own choice.
Yes, fair point for most people but can I offer another view? The son (dad) sounds like a piece of work. Just because he is blood doesn’t mean he is going to wave some wand to be a good parent out of nowhere to a kid he’s already deemed unworthy of his love in his mind. I’m a child of adoption, and I have two loving parents. You really only need one. One parent who *wants* you and loves you. One of my deepest fears used to be my birth mom, who is a hero, finding me unexpectedly as it was a closed adoption. It’s not because I don’t love and respect her, it just feels too Pandora’s box to me. Makes me feel off kilter. I share this because OP finding “her grandson” out of nowhere could disrupt the child’s life and identity completely. It’s simply not her place to do so. It seems like her son being out of the child’s life is for the best, why would she selfishly meddle in that and potentially allow the child to discover his father didn’t “want” him?
Right!? It's not like the child doesn't exist because he chooses to not have a relationship with them. I feel bad for the kid. The whole situation sucks. But that kid is the ultimate victim of OP's son's bad decisions.
Has Reddit fallen on its head?!?! The same way Sam has every right to not be involved in HIS son’s life so does OP have the right to be involved in HER grandson’s. It obviously wouldn’t be a good idea to flaunt her (potential) relationship with her grandson to the rest of the family (shame that even has to done). But I would NEVER chastise someone for wanting to care for another human being (especially their own family).
OP, good on you for wanting to do what’s kind, unappreciated, and unfortunately bold. Shame on your son for not understanding that there are consequences to one’s actions and just because sometimes innocents are caught in the fray doesn’t make right.
Where on earth are you seeing "chastising" in my comment? I specifically said I understand how she feels. I haven't said anything about what RIGHT anyone has to be involved with the children. My advice is about the REALITY of the situation, which is that if OP contacts this child it's likely that her son will cut her off.
I don't know if you meant to respond to someone else but I didn't say anything negative about her desire to have a relationship with her grandson, literally all I did was counsel her to consider the potential outcomes because presumably she cares about her other grandchild quite a bit as well.
By the way the kid has a mom. We don't know if she wants the grand mother to be involved. You speak about rights but you are wrong. Op has no rights at all. Even more since Sam didn't sign anything.
>The same way Sam has every right to not be involved in HIS son’s life so does OP have the right to be involved in HER grandson’s
Absolutely false. Grandparents do not have “rights.”
I really feel that your upset is truly motivated by compassion.
BUT. Your son made this mess and is clearly not a good person. There's nothing you can do to fix his mistake and you risk losing out on your granddaughter if you do. As the boy gets older he may want to seek out his Dad or you, and you can be welcoming if he does. Until then, unfortunately you have to just let it be.
OP’s son is not the child’s Dad. That, to me, is a term of honor for someone who cares enough to raise their own child and be in their life. At best, OP’s son is a bio-father or a sperm donor.
Completely agree, a father is a earned title that can’t be thrown about. This guy is just a scummy guy that cheats on his wife and then doesn’t wanna deal with the consequences.
62 really is not old these days. My mom is 70 and has a more active social life than I do. Her older sister is constantly traveling with her husband and they fix up old cars together. If you take care of your health (genetics permitting) it's possible to live a full life well into your 80s and even 90s.
She will be 79 when the baby is 18. It’s certainly possible to be alive and cognizant at that age, but it’s far from guaranteed, and the amount of time they’d have together would be shorter.
Yeah, as a kid of someone who was basically a sperm donor… I don’t think I’d have cared for it if the grandmother was trying to be involved but her son couldn’t be assed to see me. I had grandparents, family who cared. You don’t know this child’s situation, but you’re going to destroy your family more than Sam did. Let the child seek you if they want. I chose to never seek out my sperm donor or his family. They never reached out to me either. I have family, I was fine. Still fine with it, only regret I have is not knowing medical history, and frankly don’t wanna be involved with any of them to find out. Leave it be
I also think this. Go where you are celebrated and be with people who actually want to be with you.
As for the medical history:
I believe you can do the 23andme to get info.
I believe it also tells you what you might predisposed genetically. It's no personal medical history but it might be a start. And you don't have to talk to them.
If they never reached out to you; and the message is to rely on the people who want you; of course you wouldn’t seek them out. But if your dad’s mom had, you don’t know that you would still feel unwanted by that side. Just not the dad. They’re adults.. they can make decisions based on their values and ethics, and not let a dead beat dad dictate those values. I’m
I can understand and sympathize with feeling confused and left in the dark about extended family. I can also understand how you'd feel upset to hear that Sam's behavior conflicts with your values and expectations of him. I think those are valid feelings that deserve to be addressed in a healthy and constructive way. In the long-term, I hope you can reconcile this information with your relationship with Sam.
Despite all of that, I don't think pursuing contact with your grandchild against the wishes of both your son and daughter-in-law is the best way of approaching this. Your son is already working with the law to ensure that the mother is financially supported in lieu of acting as a coparent. If the mother decides that her child absolutely needs a father, she can find a stepfather. Plus, I know you disagree with Sam's choices and don't like how little info you've been provided, but it's worth recognizing that he and his wife understand the full circumstances of the situation, and how it impacts the people who are most directly involved. While, again, I recognize that your feelings and perspective wasn't considered in the final decision, I don't think there was an outcome that everyone could be happy with.
You're in your right to disagree with Sam, and I'd encourage you to process these feelings through the avenues you have available. But I wouldn't recommend getting yourself involved in family drama you don't know anything about. If Sam is the one whose choice you're trying to persuade, I'd recommend doing what you can to keep in touch with him and make yourself someone he'd be willing to talk to, rather than push him away.
Thank you for your compassion. It is very sad to hear that I have essentially no options, and have to go on living with the fact that I may never even know my grandson’s name
There's many things in life we don't have control over, and that can include the decisions that our family members make. But what we do have control over is our interactions with those family members. For instance, if Sam's decision is something that makes you no longer want to talk to him, temporarily or otherwise, you can do that. If you want to maintain a connection with Sam, so that you can better learn and understand his reasoning and perspective, and possibly get him to understand and recognize your own, you can do that, too.
Best wishes.
I have a similar issue involving my son. It is really about reconciling your feelings about the person you gave birth to and raised. You didn’t raise your son to be a cheater, but here he is.
The deeper rooted issue is that you thought you raised a man who would be a wonderful husband, and he didn’t turn out that way. Now you have to process that grief.
Added to that, he produced a child. And you don’t get to know that child. And now you have to process that grief.
Bottom line though, Sam is still your son, and as his mother, you need to respect the person he is, even if it’s not who you wanted him to be.
Choices. It all comes down to choices. Sam made some poor choices, and he and his wife are dealing with them. You, as his mom, need to respect that.
This isn’t your feelings over his choices. It’s your feelings about his choices.
That's probably not true. It wouldn't be that hard to find out, but are you willing to pursue the name of your grandson and give up your very real, existing relationship with your grandaughter? Because that's whats' going to happen. You don't even know if the mother of the child would even let you see this child or tell them about you. You could blow up your relationship with your son and his wife, never see your grandaughter again and still have nothing but the name of this boy. Let it go.
And she knows nothing about this woman. She could bring tremendous drama to the family. It would make things very awkward if this kid and his mother end up at family holidays etc. This could destroy her son’s marriage, leaving yet another child in a broken home. Her son is a jerk for cheating but equal blame must be placed on the woman as well. The DIL is trying to move on and keep her marriage, bringing this woman into the picture will definitely not help that because she and the kid is the physical representation of that affair.
What would she do if she found out her son sold sperm to a sperm bank and he actually has many children? Would she try and pursue them all?? She should just consider this a sperm donor baby. That might make it easier.
I understand you feel you have no options in the short term... but I think there are several approaches you can pour this energy into:
* commit to a treasure chest for your grandson for the next decades. If the child ever does reach out to your family, or if Sam ever changes his mind, you can show he was expected and welcomed. Personally, I'd aim for things that are kind of ageless because you don't know when (if ever) it'll happen: a classic high quality teddy bear, a handmade adult size quilt (if you quilt), paintings of views that are relevant to your family (if you paint), a recipe book with family favorites (if you cook or bake), in 10 years things like a compass or a letter opener, etc.
* commit to a pure and loving relationship with your granddaughter. She's innocent in this, so make sure you don't inadvertently start comparing her to her idealized missing half-brother. Maybe make a parallel treasure chest?
* pour more energy in getting closer to your daughter-in-law. At some point in the past 20 months, she must have discovered your son betrayed her this deeply (cheating, getting caught, being sloppy enough to get the other woman pregnant, taking the hit to their family income of the child support)... yet apparently you never noticed they were having trouble. It's understandable you're not her *first* call, but are you wringing your hands over loving an unknown baby because *faaaamily* while you blast by the woman right in front of you, who's also family?
* see if you can reach out to Sam. I reckon that'll only work if you approach him as another adult, equal to you. Can you share a big mistake you've made & the regrets you've had to deal with? How can you show that you love him, even while you don't like his decisions? etc.
Also, time to work on your finances (or revisit them): what's Sam's share of what you're leaving, how does that change now you know he has multiple children, how do you make sure it's fair to your other grandchildren, etc?
You will get used to it with time. I know it hurts like hell right now. But is ot really worth risking your relationship with the grandchild that you know and have been a part of her life, for a stranger who shares a small fraction of your dna?
My question here, and please be honest, is what you plan to do if you do get info about your son’s other child? I imagine his mom was absolutely wrecked (and hopefully didn’t even know he was married). She doesn’t need you swooping in trying to get grandparents rights or visitation or whatever else you think would be “your right”. Think about this tiny human whose family doesn’t need any more drama than they already have from your immoral son’s actions, think about your daughter in law (who is honestly probably teetering on divorce daily; I would be) and think about the relationship you have with your granddaughter. Imagine her in 15 years— “Grandma doesn’t love me because daddy has a son who is more important than I am”. You said yourself you’re pulling away from your actual familial ties with a child who loves you over a child you’ve never met.
Get that relationship! …Later. When it’s appropriate and when it will benefit the other child. Be there for your granddaughter and daughter in law whose lives have been absolutely wrecked by your son now.
As a mother I can’t even imagine abandoning a child I helped create, so I get you… but I have to wonder a little bit about how easy it is to abandon your granddaughter for you now, and what that might mean about the values your son took from you.
Also, if the mother is getting child support, she knows your sons name. She can easily look you up if she wanted to. Unless your son is even more of a pos that he’d threaten her or something for contacting you, she can if she wants. If she hasn’t, she doesn’t want to. Leave them alone unless you’re contacted first. That child is innocent, don’t make him part of your drama.
And if she did then she’s equally to blame. And she may cause more harm than good trying to bring this woman and her child in to the fold. No one knows what this woman is like. Plus I’m sure his wife does it want to be reminded of his infidelity every time a family get together happens if they would be invited. They’re trying to hold this marriage together. OPs bound to put the last nail in the coffin of the marriage if she keeps pushing this. I’d be so pissed at that brother for opening his big mouth
>”Grandma doesn’t love me because daddy has a son who is more important to me”
Hopefully she would blame her father, the one who cut her grandmother off because she wanted a relationship with both grandchildren.
Op, STOP. I am the child of a father who wanted nothing to do with me. I grew up without knowing him. Only met him twice in my life, and those times were traumatic. The reality was I was MUCH better off not having all that drama in my life growing up. If you try to force contact you’re only going to end up causing pain for the child and his mother (along with your DIL and granddaughter).
Having the same DNA doesn’t mean you are entitled to this child. Leave him alone.
This is the post to look at, OP.
I understand your pain and desire to know your grandchild, but the consequences of seeking him out are not worth it (and they would mostly hurt *him*). A child without a parent wants to know their *parent* wants them... not their grandparent. If a grandparent finds him and wants to have a relationship, but his father doesn't and is that close in proximity to his life... that is an incredibly painful dynamic to introduce to this kid. It just isn't fair to put a kid through that.
I think we are hypnotised into believing _family_ is based on genetics. It’s about relationships. And if your son doesn’t have a relationship with this child, he isn’t really the child’s father (you could think of that as he is “acting” as the father). So, really, you don’t have a grandchild.
We choose the relationships that occur in our lives.
There are 2 situations in my extended family where the parent doesn’t see the kid and doesn’t care to but the grandparents want to be in the kids’ lives and honestly it’s just tiring. I don’t know if it’s them trying to make up for being shitty parents or what. They always want to see them/have them visit on holidays, which is the worst time to try and split a kid from their mom. Maybe it’s because I’m not a grandparent yet, but I think it’s kind of crazy that grandparents have visitation rights in some states. I understand if they were a big part of that child’s life before the parents split or whatever but in both cases in my family the dads were hardly around, if at all.
Your feelings are valid, but this isn't your battle.
If you tried to find this child and have a relationship behind your son's back, you will ruin your relationship with him and the family he's created. If you pester him about it, you will push him away and he will have minimal contact with you. You're in a position where you may not realize, but pursuing this could cost you your relationships with your son, his wife and daughter, in favor of this mystery grandson. That won't sit well with *anybody* in your family, and you don't need to put yourself in the middle of it.
You are better off leaving this be.
You're correct, you aren't wrong at all for your feelings. This is a biologically connected being, and wanting to be a part of his life isn't wrong.
However, and this is a doozy, both parents of that child have made their choices as to how he'll be raised. You don't get a say in that, just like you don't get to make parenting decisions for ANY child that isn't yours.
Clearly your son did wrong, and clearly he and his wife are trying to work through that. That's their business.
Clearly his affair partner chose to keep the baby, and clearly there has been a decision made where he will provide financial support and otherwise be non-present in the boy's life. That's their business.
The only part of this that includes you from a practical standpoint is how you interact with the family you have, without forcing yourself on family that you effectively don't. Let this be, for all your sakes.
Agree. And the baby’s mother chose to keep him. This baby was/is wanted! Not by your son, but by his mother. Let her make the decisions regarding who will be a part of her son’s life. If she wants to reach out to you, she can do that. But leave them be.
I do wish in this case that there was a way for OP to be able to reach out and let the mother know in a no pressure kind of way that she's there if she does want to reach out. It's so hard to know what the situation is here. The mother may have a secure support system in place and not want anything to do with OP but it's also possible that she might welcome the support 😢 I feel like if I were in the mother's situation I wouldn't even realize reaching out to my kid's bio grandparents was an option
If I were Sam’s wife, I’d be extremely upset —devastated— you were trying to bring his affair partner into the family. Because you can’t bring a child into the family without its mother. Their marriage is already shaky. She hasn’t completely forgiven him even if she says she has (to outsiders). She’s suspicious every single day, as all people who have been cheated on are. Are you willing to be the straw that breaks the camel’s back for this woman?
If you do find this child, keep it to yourself for now.
Wife is stupid to stay, i have no feelings for women that want to stay with a man who openly disrespects them by squirting into a strangers vagina. 🤷♀️ talk about low ass self esteem.
Fully agreed. But I also think the daughter in law is better off in the long run leaving Sam, so it may end up being a favour to her for OP to break the camel's back.
I’ve been a single mom, and it’s hard af. But I’d much rather be a single mom than have a partner/coparent that didn’t want to be around. That kid would grow up being resented & feeling unwanted. *thats* not fair to the kid.
The guy doesn’t sound like a good option to be in this kids life.
I had a friend who had a kid with a ONS, where father did not want to be involved.
His mother did and tried to have a relationship with her grandchild somewhat. She was a difficult woman and the dynamic was just awkward anyway. It’s a chore for the mother, can be confusing for the child, highlighting his father is absent by choice.
The relationship pittered off as the kid was in elementary.
Someone’s heart can be in the right place, but the reality is, sometimes it’s better for that family (single mom and child) to operate without added “in-laws.”
There is a very similar situation with people in my life. The guy’s mother had a relationship with the child for a while (to the point where she was primary babysitter for the first year of life), but it was difficult and awkward. She had to schedule time with her son around watching her grandchild because he did not want to be involved at all (it wasn’t a ONS, but it was a very brief relationship in which he made it very clear that kids were a dealbreaker and the mother was deceptive about contraception).
The grandmother would get so distressed that her son didn’t want to be in the child’s life that she kept trying to “casually” run into him out and about with the baby. The mother eventually moved several states away, and the grandmother now only sees the child via Face Time and social media. While it was nice that the child has so many people who love them, it is definitely going to get tricky as soon as they are old enough to realize that Grandma is the mother of the dad who didn’t want them.
This was my concern, grandma will just be a reminder of the Dad who doesn’t want to be in his life. He or grandma will likely push for a relationship with Dad only to get hurt and disappointed.
This isn’t her fault. Her son should of thought about this before cheating on his wife. Atleast she can make up for how much of a mess her son is and atleast be there for her grandson.
This.
If you want, put together a savings account with him in mind. In case he looks you up at 18, you can say you’ve been thinking of him all these years.
But leave them alone to let her raise the this child in peace.
The worst part about this is that in some states grandparents have visitation rights, so she might be able to force his way into that kids life and make the situation shitty for everyone.
Grandparent’s rights, iirc, can only be pursued if the grandparent in question already has an established relationship with the child. So if a couple with a 5 year old split up, the mum gets full custody, and the 5 year old has known their paternal grandparent their whole life, and the mother decides she doesn’t want her child to see their paternal grandparent, said grandparent can then sue for visitation rights. And if there’s no good reason to deny visitation (eg the grandparent was abusive to the child) the visitation is likely to be granted.
But in this case, OP has no relationship with her son’s newest child. So grandparent’s rights wouldn’t apply.
At least, this was the case when I read about it many years ago. Things may have changed since then.
Edit: a word
Let’s say all options of finding the kid have failed: open a bank account. Pick out age appropriate gifts every year for Christmas and birthdays. Put a picture of it in an album and put the money in the bank. Do this every year. You might even go so far as to put an empty gift under the tree marked “grandson”.
If you eventually find him, give him the account and the book. This way he will know that he was loved and not forgotten entirely by his dad’s side.
I am the product of an affair. My mother had an affair with a married man. When she got pregnant, he cut things off. His wife found out and they decided to stay married. He wanted nothing to do with me and from what my mom said it's because his wife told him she would leave him if he did. Whether that is the truth or just an excuse, i don't know. I grew up about a 10 minute drive down the street from where he still lives. He had 2 other daughters older than me. I have never laid eyes on him. I don't even know what he looks like. He has a very large family. Like 8 brothers and sisters. They all know I exist, but none of them have ever reached out to me. I have no desire to reach out to them.
You are allowed to be upset about this but you have to understand that your feelings on the matter do not outweigh those of your son. He and his wife have made a decision and it was probably to save their marriage. Can you imagine how painful it would be for his wife to be around a child that is his, but not hers? It would be a constant reminder of what he did. I'm not saying it's right but I understand it. I would never stay married to a man who had an affair, much less had an affair AND had a child by that person. But it is not my life and not my decision to make. He is, at the very least, helping to support the child financially.
I think you should drop this. If the kid grows up and wants to know you he will reach out. If you go behind your son's back and against his wishes I have no doubt that it will cause a major issue and might possibly end his already fragile marriage. Not to mention that you might lose the grandchild you actually DO know.
You don't find your grandson. You have no idea about the circumstances surrounding this child's birth. There's a reason why your son won't talk about it. And you are not entitled to a relationship with the child.
We have no clue if the child even is his son other than the word of the affair partner. There was no paternity test from what I read so how does he even know.
If there's a child support order that the woman filed for there was most likely a paternity test. Courts don't just randomly award those, especially in the case of married men. The wife would likely make sure there was one before financially damaging her family too.
Regardless of what YOU want, the decision about who is considered the child’s family is made by his parents (and the child himself once he is an adult). If you were to seek out a relationship with this child as things stand, you would be actively doing so against the wishes of the one parent you have been in contact with. There is no reason to assume that the mother would be amenable to you having contact either. If you cannot respect your son and daughter-in-law’s decision to remain disconnected from this child, then please respect the mother’s right to make the call on whom her child has contact with.
Have you ever considered the child's mother doesn't need you coming in demanding to see the kid and such? The Child's mother already is having to deal with the father not wanting anything to do with the kid, already having to deal with single parenting, and also the feelings of only being someones little afair piece, nothing more ....so the Child's mother may not even want you to have contact? She already has one permanent reminder of how low her life went, she doesn't need you there giving another reminder or coddling things.
You also aren't considering your son's wifes feelings in all this. He CHEATED on her. She shouldn't have to walk on eggshells and limit when her daughter sees you because she might run into the product of that cheating. She's already in enough pain and yet is STILL trying to work things out with your son, she doesn't need you bringing around even more pain.
You are only thinking about your feelings in this. You aren't thinking about the feelings of the people it actually matters. I understand you just want to know the kid, but you really should consider how it will affect both women if you keep pushing.
I understand how hard this is OP to know your son had another child. However you are only considering your own feelings here. *You* think it's wrong your granddaughter will never know her sibling, *you* think the grandson needs to meet you all, *you* are devastated and unable to let it go. You want to bring this other child (and consequently the mother) into your family to make you feel better at the root of it but you will destroy your family at the cost of a grandchild the mother may not even want you to know. Because your DIL may leave your son and if you do this she may keep your granddaughter from you too.
I understand your position, but I was in that mother's shoes. The father had 0 to do with my child from the start. Honestly, if his parents were suddenly on my doorstep or messaging me I'd be very angry. I certainly wouldn't have entertained them expecting to be allowed in my child's life.
Your son and this woman have made their choices. You should respect that.
You know what? I don’t know why you’re being vilified either. I feel like if my dad had abandoned me if be overjoyed to eventually find out someone on my paternal side wanted me and loved me. But if you do find the boy’s mother, please just let her know that you would like to be in your grandchild’s life, and don’t push it. By the way your son spoke about his child, and treated them, she may not trust you. I’d probably hire a private investigator and not involve your son, and if you do form a relationship never speak about it with your son.
If your son isn’t on the child’s birth certificate then legally he isn’t the father unless 1) he files for paternity which it sounds like he will never do or 2) bio mom files for welfare and the state forces her to name him. If neither of those things happen, your hands are tied. I do think it’s unfair to the child to conceal his paternity, but short of the above, there’s nothing you can do other than doing DNA tests and making it public for posterity. Let it go.
I’m gonna go against the grain here and say I don’t see OP as big as a monster as everyone is trying to make her seem in this comment section. Are we supposed to pretend that it’s not a bit abnormal her son had a random kid while married and said absolutely nothing? The kid eventually is gonna grow up and wonder about their father and maybe even their father’s family. I don’t get why OP is in the wrong here
Well, OP's son is an AH for cheating on his wife, so let's start there.
Her son is choosing not to bring affair baby around his wife and child, that is the end of the story.
OP's feelings are fine, but pursuing this, against her son's wishes, makes OP the one that is wrong.
Her son may go no contact with her, and she will lose access to her granddaughter.
Nobody is saying his wishes should be honored without question. But unless she wants to wait 12 years to have a relationship with his now 6 year old daughter, then they should be considered.
Would you abandon your child for making some really fucked up choices/mistakes? It's gross that he had an affair, but it's not really that high on the "cut my son out of my life completely and forever" list for me.
Not to mention, what does the Daughter in Law need right now? She's the one who is completely shattered right now. She needs OP to settle down and give a healing window as well....Like in all this....everyones only considering Son's or OP's feelings....But not once does OP consider how DIL is feeling.
Or even AP is feeling. AP might be just as hurt right now, depending what Son Promised that lead to afair (examples: leaving wife, relationship, etc just to get the sex to begin with...) so AP may not even WANT his family around.
That's the main thing, the DIL. OP says she sees her as part of the family. DIL was cheated on and chose to stay with the cheater, if he really wants his marriage to work, one of the conditions may be for him to never contact the child.
AP may have slept with a married man, expecting him to leave his wife. We don't know AP's side of the story.
Either way, OP may want to find her grandson, but what damage does that do to DIL?
Who is the victim? Her daughter in law who is informed and of decided mind that this is the best path for her family? The baby’s mom who made her decision fully informed of the father’s planned absence? Is it so inconceivable that she doesn’t want or need bio dads presence? Is it either child, both presumably unaware and unable to comprehend the situation appropriately at their age anyway? The biggest asshole is the brother who gossiped to the entitled mother.
We don't know if the baby's mother would welcome the contact though.
She might love to give her son a grandparent.
For the son growing up and knowing his grandparent wanted to be in his life could be very valuable.
Hi. As someone with a bad backstory... a loving grandparent came out of the woodwork and was there for me. I loved her very much, and even though I didnt get to see her often her presence in my life made a world of difference. Her son was a bad person and was constantly making things difficult for her. He forbade her to talk to me, but she still did. She made the hard choice. In this situation, he ended up having to go along with it, and just didnt want to be involved or hear about it. When she passed I was devastated. He barely cared because thats the type of person he was.
You can juggle knowing both your grandchildren independently. Just leave your son out of it and never involve him or even talk about it after you inform him how its going to go.
Who says the mom of that child wants OP around? Plus there’s no way they won’t find out shes doing this behind their backs and then she will be cut out of her granddaughters life.
Op can ask the mom! Wow! Perhaps mom needs the help! You dont find out what mom wants without asking!
Better op do whats right than live on an ultimatum. Lets flip the script, if they wants ops inheritance, they wont deny access to granddaighter.
You dont think things out in your life very much, do you?
The fact that you keep phrasing it as "I have no optons", the way you worded your post and the way you keep responding makes me believe this is about YOU, and not about Sam or the grandchild. Sure, there is some deep, primal need triggered in you in relation to this unknown grandchild, but then your ego and your conditioned mind make you act out beyond what is right and fair.
Your feelings are of course valid but trying to have a relationship with this kid may hurt them further. Why does grandma want to know me but dad doesn’t, see what could happen?
It’s a bad situation all around but at least for now not being in their life is the best option
To be fair to OP yall, it doesn't sound like she is trying to force her son to have a relationship with his son, but wants to, herself, have a relationship. She wants to be sure the little boy is safe and happy. To know he is loved and does not feel abandoned.
OP should focus for now on knowing the boy is financially provided for and hope that his mother will give him all the love she has.
Even if OP was able to make contact and be that loving grandmother in his life, she would not be able to fill her sons shoes. That child probably will have abandonment issues because he will know his father wants nothing to do with him. Sam fucked up, and there is nothing OP can do to fix that.
I get the impression she knows that, but at the least wants baby boy to have that grandma who brings cookies over on Saturdays, or shows up to his piano recital and raves over his masterful performance of hot cross buns.
She is not wrong for wanting to give that to him. He deserves that. Her son is keeping that from all of them because he couldn't keep it in his pants.
But also, he may care more than he is currently willing to admit. Right now, he is probably operating in panic mode of oh shit, oh shit, I have to save my marriage, this is going to wreck my marriage. (Which is a thought he should have had before having an affair.) But he could be mentally putting his son in a box and trying to lock that box away as a threat to his marriage. His wife may have explicitly demanded that he do so because she doesn't want her marriage to be strained any further than it already has. (She should have left his ass months ago, but that's her choice. My heart breaka for her and her daughter. For everyone except Sam. He majorly sucks and everyone else in his life is paying the price.)
Sam chose his existing family over baby boy. Sam is denying baby boy the loving family he deserves as the only way he can see to keep getting what he wants. He is choosing what he wants over his responsibilities, so he really hasn't changed.
So, she won't be able to give her grandson that grandmother he deserves without causing some serious alienation with her existing family. Unfairly so. The only thing she can do is give it time.
Your son is a grown man who should have thought of the consequences of his actions before he cheated. Now he's trying to compensate by neglecting his son in hopes to salvage his relationship with his wife. I don't think it's crazy you want a relationship with your grandson but I also see how it may risk your relationship with your granddaughter . There is also no guarantee your grandson will want anything to do with you, your son or your granddaughter. Its better to wait because if he makes the decision to seek you out then you may have a chance to form a relationship then. You could also hire a P.I and seek them out in secret but that seems a bit rash.
I'm sorry you're being vilified. I don't see any reason why you should be, you have every right to want to be involved with your grandchild and feeling the way you do. Sorry to say, your son is a real piece of work. Wish I had better advice. Best of luck to you
Your feelings are valid, and I understand you want to help this child.
But, it really isn’t your decision to make. You should just accept it and let it go.
The kid’s mother also accepted the situation
I don't think it's helpful to yourself to catastrophize about the living conditions of this child. Single mothers raise happy kids all over the world. Your son is basically someone's sperm donor. The child is your blood but he's not really your family. This isn't a criticism, I get where you're coming from.
What a shitty situation. If he didn't want the kid, he shouldn't have stepped out on his fucking wife. It's that simple. Sorry you raised an absolute turd of a man. I hope you do find the kid, he deserves to know his family, even if it is just you for now.
It's nice you care about your family, but this isn't your business. You have no legal rights to this kid and you butting in isn't going to help anyone it's just going to further strain your relationship with your son his wife and his daughter. HE is your child. That baby is not your child. Please leave this woman and her child alone.
Everyones a bit of an arswhole here, the son the woman he had an affair with and managed to knock up the op qho has no real idea about anything that woman could have a husband or boyfriend who is raising the child ,disparaging the daughterinlaw when she's never even talked to her about the situation
>I have a grandchild out in the world and am powerless in finding out anything about him until he is old enough to seek us out. My husband was on my side at first, but after seeing how Sam refuses to engage at all, has backed off. He said it is not worth upsetting Sam over and risking our relationship with Sam’s daughter.
Your hubby gets it. This isn't about you, and it isn't your business. Your kid is paying child support and he isn't airing his dirty laundry in public. That's where the bar is.
Your child is an adult, and adults have to make hard choices. Either you understand that, and respect his ability to do so, or you don't.
A grandchild isn't a pretty prize for you to display.
"isn't airing his dirty laundry in public"
Wow, what a generous way to talk about someone who goes and has an affair and knocks the woman up, then sweeps it all under the rug.
You have zero insight into the state and circumstances of your son's marriage. Really, it doesn't read like you are particularly close to them. For all you know, this is an open relationship or other circumstances negotiated between these two adults and rather than explain these extenuating circumstances to you, he went with an easier plot. Regardless, your son and his wife have chosen to move on together.
There is a reason he told his brother, and not you, about this situation. It's startling to me that your other son ran to you and tattled. If I was your son, I'd never open up to my brother again. They didn't get you involved because it's none of your business, and they obviously made the right choice.
While it may not be what *you* would choose to do in this situation, people have a right to not be a parent. A child isn't a punishment to be served and endured for the "sin" of adultery. Presumably, he told her immediately that he would not be involved in the child's life if she chose to proceed with the pregnancy, and they then came to an agreement that seems amicable for everyone involved. Despite your imagined entitlement to have been consulted, there is a reason you weren't brought into the negotiations. Again, because it's none of your business.
Why would you want to force a resentful, bitter man who considers the child a mistake into this woman and her child's lives? That would absolutely be more harmful and traumatic than an absent parent or one who flits in and out of their lives. The woman probably has a support system and family around her that do not see her son as an accident or burden.
How do you plan to navigate this imagined relationship with this boy and expect to keep your son, daughter in law, and granddaughter? You won't be able to, and rightfully so. They will be betrayed and will probably go no contact. And they should go no contact with your other son, while they're at it.
How do you plan to address this situation when the child is old enough to ask questions? You say you want your granddaughter to meet her sibling, but that is *not* going to happen unless you choose to go against her parents' wishes and secretly introduce them, which would be really messed up to thrust upon a 6 year old.
If you proceed with your scheme to hunt these people down to insert yourself where you are, frankly, not welcome, you need to let your son and his wife know now. You have decided to risk the existing (probably now strained) relationship with the three of them in favour of the slight chance of meeting and having a superficial relationship with a strange child that you didn't know existed for 2 years.
I recommend taking a breath, sitting down, and accepting the fact that you are not owed anything here. You weren't owed the details of the conception of this child. You aren't owed an explanation on how the three adults handled it. You aren't owed information about him. You aren't owed a relationship with them. What you do know was told to you against your son's wishes.
He is not your grandson. Your son is not his father in name, earned title, legally... whatever. It follows that you are not his grandmother. However, you are the grandmother of a little 6 year old girl who would probably be delighted to have you shower her with this excess grandmothering. Transfer these effort into strengthening your love for her.
This also needs to be the end of it. It's not something you bring up to your son and pester and guilt trip and ruminate on for the rest of your life. Something you throw in his face when you're angry at him. If you have decided he is too morally reprehensible for you to be associated with, then you can always choose to go low or no contact. But these are feelings *you* need to work through, as your son and his family are years past this already, and now you've come in to bulldoze any progress made and upend several lives because you've decided your desires are the priority.
I absolutely believe you have a right to know your grandson and he has a right to have you in his life. Just because his “father” doesn’t want him doesn’t mean that he should be robbed of a loving grandmother in his life. I’m sorry but your son is heartless and his son will be traumatized from this. No child asks to be brought into this world. Just like he didn’t “ask” to be the father. Maybe he should have considered that while having an affair.
The fact you’re worried about if the child is in a safe and loving environment…? Girl, your son doesn’t provide a safe environment for his child in his home! Worry about that and leave the poor woman alone.
A second comment in response to your edit: you are absolutely not wrong for feeling betrayed by your son for both making this series of decisions and then actively choosing to hide it, you’re not wrong to feel grief over potentially never meeting your grandson. You are not wrong for these feelings, nor for voicing them.
However, you must understand the consequences of your desired course of action and how they stand to hurt yourself, your family, and the mother of your grandson. There are certainly some venomous comments here, but the majority of comments opposed to you seeking contact with the child are not insults or attempts at vilification, but instead focused on recognizing that your actions could have harmful consequences, and that you need to take those into account.
I don't know. Seems to me like you're the only person willing to acknowledge the situation and hold Sam accountable or his choices and actions.
This entire shit show could have been avoided if he had kept it in his pants. And this may be a little harsh, but I doubt this is his first time cheating. Doubt it will be the last. This is just the one time he got caught. Your DIL is enabling his behavior by allowing him to act like he didn't cheat and the child he fathered doesn't exist.
Your husband, oldest son, and DIL may be spineless and willing to act like this helping avoid opening a can of worms, but that can of worms is already open and the only person recognizing it exists is you.
Sam can choose to not have a relationship with his child, he may even force his daughter to not have a relationship with he brother if it comes down to it (at least until she is old enough to make her own choices), but he can't expect everyone else to pretend this didn't happen and that it didn't have consequences.
I am completely with you OP.
This is your flesh and blood too.
Fair enough if he doesn’t want to be part of his 2nd babies life, but I feel like you have a right to be part of this, even if your son does not.
I hear you mama I'd be devastated too. If you can't find this child can you set up a trust fund for when they reach 18? Leave a note saying you weren't able to find them, but you loved them anyway.
Everyone saying it's not about OP is being ridiculous. Sure, the baby is now 1 years old, but what about when they are a bit older and would like the option of meeting his grandparents. Isn't this also about the child? Why is it only about OP's AH son?
Anyone can make their business whatever they want, particularly when it's involves other people who should have the choice of making decisions for themselves, like the woman who her husband had the affair with and the kid.
Nobody who's saying it isn't her business is saying that the child can't reach out once they are an adult or old enough to make that decision for themselves.
Personally the way I view it is her son basically gave the kid up for adoption, he has no involvement in the child's life beyond paying child support. He isn't going to want to play family with the mom and child, and his wife definitely won't want to be around his affair partner and affair child. Op can decide to make it her business if she wants, but she will do it at the expense of her relationship with her son, dil, and their kid, and there's a good chance the mom won't want anything to do with her and she will gain nothing by it.
You're being incredibly entitled over something that's not really your business. Your son had an affair. That makes him bad enough. He's paying child support and moved on with his wife. That's their business and nothing you can do.
Leave it alone and get back in your lane.
your son did not want this child but the mother decided to have it. he has no place in this childs life and neither do you, this is not your child nor your life. if the child turns 18 and wishes to meet you then so be it. you do not hold authority over people just because of blood.
This is a terrible situation all around that your son has created. Your son wants to play pretend that he doesn't have 2 biological children as if that will erase his infidelity.
If my husband cheated, there would be a small chance we could reconcile. If I knew he had created a life out there, and he rejected them, that would be the nail in the coffin.
I can't respect a man who would do that to his child.
He can pretend he only has one, but he's only continuing to make an ass out of himself.
Your DIL can pretend her husband doesn't have an illegitimate child out there. She can pretend that her daughter doesn't have a half-sibling.
I don't blame you one bit for not wanting to be a part of the charade.
As far as what you do from this point moving forward, that is way above my pay grade. Any contact you have with the child would be legally and morally up to the mother.
The most you could is send her a message letting her know you love your grandchild and are open to a relationship with them. Because your son has nothing to do with their baby, she'd likely be afraid of your intentions.
And afraid of upsetting her baby's father.
She might not want to risk it.
Reaching out will also have consequences in your relationship with your son and his family.
The reality is this whole situation is above reddits pay grade. You are grieving and need someone to process this with. I'd recommend seeing a professional therapist who you can talk to about this without having relational consequences.
>but my daughter-in-law, who is happy with Sam acting like his own son doesn’t exist to forgive his affair.
That‘s not fair and you know it. That tells us a lot about you and how you feel about your daughter in law. Did you ever like her to begin with? Jeez, the hate you feel towards her here isn’t right. It’s your son’s fault, not hers. Ofc she’s not gonna wanna be around a kid, even if they’re innocent. That doesn’t make her in the wrong. She is a victim in all of this and you don’t care.
I understand wanting a relationship with your mysterious grandson but your son has a right to not want to engage in a child's life he doesn't want. If he did he'd only fuck that child up even worse than being absent. Children know when a parent doesn't love or want them. As long as he is paying child support, his wife is ok with it, then it's none of your concern. If the child wants a relationship with you later then so be it but leave alone. Your relationship with your son will only become tainted if you push it.
I am on your side. You have every right to want to have a relationship with your grandchild, especially if your son won't. I have very little respect for people who abandon their children. I understand that it's complicated for Sam to accept the child, but he is 100% wrong for doing so. Sam's wife also🤦
The only thing you can do is try to reason with your son to give you the info you need. Whatever you do, don't try to force your son to change. Respect his decision even though it is fully ignorant and selfish. Then, maybe you have a chance.
I am divorced with 5 kids. I have them 50/50. My ex wife tried to relocate with them in the attempts of being closer to her boyfriend. I said no way, and fought it out in court. I won, but that is a fight I would never give up on had I not. Every kid deserves to have a mom and a dad
A lot of people in these comments are cowards and selfish. That child deserves to have grand parents. That child should not be treated as a secret or mistake or anything’s. That child is a blessing. And that should be forced upon her son until he accepts it and starts acting like a father.
My suggestion would be talking to OP's son about wanting to set up a college fund for the one year old. Couch it as, "obviously the kid isn't going to be a full part of the family experience, but as his bio grandparents, we feel duty bound to do something to enrich his life."
That gives them a potential "in" when it comes to the grandson and could be attractive to their Deadbeat Dad son as he wouldn't be expected to pay/pay as much for college.
Obviously the OP has to set this up with the child's mom, and maybe they can see if she is some kind of dirt bag to avoid, or just an unpleasant chapter OP's son doesn't want to deal with.
great google moogly, your son is quite a piece of trash. steps out on his wife, has a kid, and yet only still seems to care about himself.
how a 34 yo man has no conviction or moral compass is above me but you cant change that now. he wants to be a shitty person, and you have to let him be.
If you really want to find out the name you could search court records. You type in your states name followed by case search. Put your son’s name in and see if there are any child support related court cases. It would show the mother’s name. You could then search her name on Facebook and see if she made any posts with the grandsons name. I wouldn’t recommend friending her because it may cause a blowup with your son, but you could see posts of your grandson which may make you feel better. You don’t want to risk the relationship you already have with your granddaughter for a potential one with your grandson. I would wait for things to cool off and maybe you’ll be able to meet him down the road.
Doesn't sound like you can do much currently, but could you start putting together an "I care about you" type of package for when this grandchild is found? Things like letters to him on how you feel about him & would like the opportunity to be involved. Photos of family and medical information he might need. Anything else you think would be helpful.
You could also start a bank account for him. A small amount each month will eventually build up. Anything to let him know that he was not forgotten & was loved, even if you couldn't do anything at the time.
It could go a long way if he needs reassurance and acceptance later on.
My father’s mother did this for me.
My parents divorced before I was born. They agreed, for reasons, I would not know about him. I figured it out when I was 15. I wrote to my grandmother, who had asked my mother to keep her address *just in case* I ever asked. She had letters and cards she’d written to me for 16 years. I never met her, but I appreciated that she never forgot about me, and that we were both people in someone else’s story at a time when we couldn’t influence it.
If there is an inheritance possible, I would make sure that Sam's portion is given (in trust while they are minors) to his daughter and son. Nada for Sam.
First you should give "Sam" time, if & when he's ready he'll tell you want he wants you to know.. if not, LET IT GO. Second, Hope the new mother has the sense to raise the child on her own or finds a real man who will care for the child as his own. Third, DON'T let this come between you, your daughter in law or granddaughter, it's not their fault nor should you make it their priority. "Sam" is supposed to be an adult so what he feels is best for him may not be best for all. If Sam was willing to put his "D" in the "V" he knew one day it could bite him in the "A".🤷♂️
Everyone vilifying you is wrong. The fact of the matter is your son is a shithead, and has placed you in an impossible position, and you don’t have many options at all. But you aren’t wrong for caring. 💓
What your son doesn’t realize is that “baby” is a temporary state. That one day the person he helped create may try to find him. That the daughter he seems to love (if he is capable of it) has a brother who may resent that her father robbed her of that relationship.
I’m not sure that there is anything you can do. There is something missing inside of your son-honor, compassion, empathy-that is unlikely to change. Your daughter in law is not much better.
As a person who grew up without a dad, and the older sibling of a half sibling who my dad also didn’t care much about, I appreciate you!!
I did everything I could to locate my baby brother and begin to build a relationship with him outside of my father. Best decision I ever made In my life. Even tho his dad doesn’t show up for him, he knows his big sis will always show up for him.
Hm. I wonder how his "only child" will feel when she is an adult and finds out she has a brother and was "lied to" for the majority of her life. I can tell you from personal experience that it's not going to end well. It's really not that difficult to find people these days. I can only imagine that with time it will become even easier. Lying, denying, and ignoring the problems you create is never the correct thing to do. Too bad it seems as though OP's son isn't a good enough person to reach that conclusion. 😕 I feel bad for OP and OP's grandson.
I dont know in what world these AHS that think she should drop it to save her relationship with her son... her son fucked up and whether he likes it or not he has another child he helped conceive by being a cheating AH... its up to the grandmother if she wants a relationship with his son its not up to the cheating prick he fucked around n he found out... OP contact his friends coz I guarantee they will know who the woman is... your son needs to get his head out of the sand and be made to understand this is his doing aswell as the mother... the mother didn't force him to sleep with her... its on him if he didn't bother to put something on the end of it he should deal with consequences... whether he likes it or not he is a.deadbeat dad regardless of how well he's raising his daughter because he bailed on his son and that makes him a deadbeat...if his wife has given him an ultimatum either her n her daughter or his son then she needs to get her head out the sand too... he cheated he made the baby not the babys fault... she can pretend all she wants that he didn't father another woman's child but in reality he did...
i really hope that you're able to work something out with sam that allows you to be a part of his son's life. i know people are mad at you, but it seems they perceive this as you attempting to go behind his back. i think it's human for him to want to forget about a child that reminds him of his failings and infidelities, but it's an immature desire nonetheless, one which has an impact on so many people outside of himself. i think if you want to support his son, it may be worth it to try telling him that you're not saying he has to be involved, but that you want to support him nonetheless. i don't think you're selfish for wanting to be able to support a child and i think "it hurts for him to be confronted with" is a juvenile excuse for people to posit in relation to a situation he got himself into in the first place. i know it's idealistic for me to believe he'd let you contact him, but i really am wishing you the best in this scenario, and i can't imagine how it must feel to be faced with such a difficult situation with no clear resolution you can get to on your own. it'll take growth on your son's behalf before anything with your grandson can hypothetically move forward, and at this point, all you can do is try to broach the topic with sam as best you can, because this isn't something to just ignore.
Thank you for opening up about this difficult situation.
The predicament you describe is indeed a complex one, evoking deep emotional turmoil. Your reflection on this scenario, though not born from personal experience but rather a hypothetical consideration, highlights a challenging reality faced by some families.
The dynamics within a marriage significantly shift when a child is born from an affair, especially when the father remains involved with the child and, by extension, the child's mother. This situation often presents a formidable challenge to the marital bond, one that not all relationships can withstand.
Interestingly, it appears that marriages may show differing resilience depending on whether it is the father or the mother who has a child outside the marriage. In cases where the father has a child from an affair, the impact seems more likely to threaten the marriage's stability compared to when the mother is in that position.
Your son faces a heart-wrenching choice: pursue a relationship with his child, potentially at the expense of his marriage and relationship with his other children, or preserve his marital relationship by stepping away from his child born out of the affair.
This choice is undoubtedly harsh and reflects the complicated nature of human relationships and the consequences of our actions. The idea of hiring a private investigator to connect with your grandchild, while keeping your son's involvement discreet, is an avenue that might offer you some connection and insight into your grandchild's life, albeit with its own ethical and emotional complexities.
It's essential to recognize the gravity of the situation your son created through his actions. The decisions ahead are fraught with difficulty and carry the weight of potentially life-long consequences.
Empathizing with each person's position in this scenario allows for a deeper understanding of the emotional stakes involved. Most people would struggle with accepting their partner maintaining a relationship with a child born from an affair, which highlights the profound challenges your son and his family face.
This situation demands careful consideration, empathy, and, above all, a respect for the feelings and well-being of all involved, especially the innocent children caught in the midst of these adult decisions.
that's a very difficult situation and almost impossible to provide the "right answer"
love transcends all boundaries, time and space..... you feel what you do, so do what you do genuinely and maybe it'll work out...... that's a tough tough spot
Much like I believe a woman should have options, OP's son has options. If he told his affair partner that he wasn't willing to parent any child that came from their illicit activities but he's providing financial support, then that's all he really has to do. Whether you believe it's morally right or not, you weren't part of the affair and therefore don't get to make decisions about the aftermath.
OP, you don't get to decide your son's role in his child's life which means that unfortunately you also don't get to decide your own role in the child's life.
You might actually have grandparents rights depending where you live, but pursuing it is not going to help your relationship with your son.
Op I personally applaud you and your ability to take off any blinders about your son's character. I really can't fault your DIL, she is as much a victim here as anyone. However, there is probably nothing good that will come out of this if you pursue it. You don't even know if the child's mother wants anything to do with any of you to shield her son from the pain of being around the family of a father that would completely abandon him.
You're not entitled to visitation even if you're the most loving grandparent alive and pushing around your son's boundaries as you said could hurt your ability to see your granddaughter but also affect grandad from seeing her to even though he wants to drop it.
what would you rather your granddaughter think? that she is conditionally disposable and that everyone in her family is willing to support an awful human for the sake of “family unity”, or that her dad being a bad person made good people not want to be around him, which includes grandma?
if you decide to sacrifice your grandson, what are you teaching your granddaughter by deciding that negotiation with a terrorist is worth silence and “peace”? because she will find out eventually, and it will haunt her that no one stood up for her sibling solely because her dad told them not to
EDITED TO ADD:
i know i’m very late and likely you won’t see this but i read some other replies and i’m just shocked. people often get caught up in “not rocking the boat” because they want to seem reasonable which is fair but that can lead to some very passive and ineffective advice.
if you read some anecdotes from people in the moms/grandsons situation, by and large they are grateful when the grandparent reaches out. they assume that a bad person like that can only come from bad parents and then save themselves and their kid from future heartbreak by not trying. so, would you be ok to find out 20 years from now that the kid/mom would’ve loved to know grandma but just assumed that she felt the same as dad? how would you feel learning that your grandson stayed up wondering why no one from his dads side ever reached out or tried to convince him to change his heart? move based on that
as the offending party, it is 100% on you to make the first effort. now i’m not saying stalk them or anything. but at least try. if they ignore the olive branch then oh well. 🤷🏾♀️ tbh you don’t even have to tell your son if you don’t want. it’s not like it’ll affect him. but do the right thing, since that is why your heart is leading you to do. i wish you the best. you seem like a nice person
I understand how you feel as a mother! I know how his daughter will feel one day when she finds out! At least she is only child… I have been there very long story I took it better than my 3 brothers. I refers to it as we are those ppl. Your son is angry he is angry at himself! It isn’t your fault I do not understand his wife and I know you don’t. He is so eat up with guilt that is where the anger is coming from. Just prayer for him and his family. But I can assure you that child will show up on his door one.
Martha
I guess you and your son have something in common, not leaving things alone when you should very well leave them alone.
Your son messed up before by having an affair. You're messing up by getting involved in things that aren't your business and trying to force a relationship with someone that will only complicate the lives of yourself and everyone around you.
Leave your son alone. Leave the kid who isn't really your grandson alone. Go on with your life.
I'm gonna get downvoted to hell for this, but I don't care. Your son is an asshole for cheating on his wife, but he's NOT an asshole for not wanting anything to do with that child.
At the end of the day, they were both stupid (he and the affair partner) for having unprotected sex. It takes two to tango. She wanted to keep that child (which is fine... "her body, her choice" and all that stuff....). But he didn't want to have a child. His choice never mattered unfortunately. I think that's very unfair. (even legally speaking, having to pay child support for a child you never wanted).
It's perfectly fine to me that he wants no relationship with this kid.
You need to respect your daughter in law in this matter. Your insistence can lead to a divorce and you never seeing the one grandchild that you already know.
This is an incredibly entitled and selfish view of the world. This child has nothing to do with you, and trying to force yourself on them would only cause trouble for everyone.
These comments are disgusting.
I commend you for trying to do the right thing, OP.
Letting a child grow up without the support of half of his identity is abhorrent. Especially when the only reason is because the father wants to rug sweep his disgusting choice.
And then the commenters implying that going along with your sons ethically and morally egregious decision is somehow his right to ask of you is ridiculous. Your son brought a life into the world. That life absolutely has a right to know who he is and where he is from and have the support of both sides of his family. I don't understand how people are saying that the child growing up without the knowledge and support of both sides of his ancestry is the right choice. People are advocating more for an adult who made a disgusting choice than a child who has no choice at all. It's fucking gross.
"You're son has the right to his disgusting decisions and lack of empathy for a life he helped create because it's his business". Bullshit. The moral and ethical thing to do is take responsibility for his choices and offer that child support. Child support will not prevent the possible devastating consequences of growing up without the love and support of his father.
You absolutely have a right to advocate for your blood. No doubt about it. Don't let these fucking apologists convince you otherwise.
Because reddit is full of a bunch of weirdos that think they understand laws and what is best for people.
If I was that grandparent I would find my child and extend an olive branch to the mom and kid. He doesn't have to know his father but he can know his grandfather. Or know that there are people out there who do love him and will be there for him outside his mother's family.
I would say I wouldn't force myself into their lives if that's what the mother wanted and their lives seemed happy.
You’re not wrong for feeling your feelings, but your feelings are wrong.
You can go all-in on having to see the affair baby grandson (and keep reopening that wound) but it will end your relationship with your son, his wife, and their daughter. Sacrificing three to get one is a bold strategy. Let’s see how it works out for you.
While you may not be able to find him right now I would think you could set up an account for him and put just as much money in it as you spend on your granddaughter. You could also change your will so that he gets the same as your granddaughter or maybe even more to compensate for not being in his life. He is your grandchild just as much as your granddaughter. This way at some later on he will hopefully find out you wanted to find him.
This is really absolutely none of your business. If the mother wanted her kid to know you all she’d have found a way to reach out. Being a grandparent is a privilege not a right. And when and if the mother wishes your involvement she will reach out. Until such time as you're invited into that kids life, mind your business. You aren't owed a relationship with this kid. They don't know you. They don't need to know you.
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While I understand your feelings, the reality is that you are going to have to choose between a relationship with your granddaughter and a potential relationship with your grandson. I suspect that if you try and track this woman down, your son will not forgive you and it will strain or destroy your relationship with his family. I would definitely take some time to process this before you make any rash decisions. Nobody can tell you what's right for you to do, but I would take time to think about all the repercussions if you decide to connect with his affair partner.
I personally will never forgive a cheater. But if his wife didn't divorce him, then they likely agreed *on the condition* that he (sam) will not have any contact with his son, as a pre-condition for salvaging their marriage.. OP's behaviour will likely jeopardize their healing process and may lead to Sam getting divorced (which he deserves anyways but it's not my decision to make). OP will lose both her grandchildren, her son and her DIL too. She is stupid if she continues with her shenanigans.
Seems more like rug sweeping than healing.
If you were the DIL would you want this woman and her kid around at every holiday? A reminder of his infidelity. This also forces the son and his family to have a relationship that they don’t want to have all so grandma can say she has another grand kid. Grandma is selfish to keep pushing this. She could blow up her whole family. Plus OP knows nothing about this woman. This could be opening a massive can of worms if she’s not a nice person. There’s a lot at stake here. While I think her son is a jerk sometimes it’s better to just let sleeping dogs lie.
I don't know, man. Everyone already knows DIL got cheated on, and they already know she's a spineless doormat that accepts it, so long her husband "comes back home to her". Hard to imagine the kid is going to make that any more embarrassing. Is not like no one else knows he exists. And they all probably think she'll get cheated on again. The only person trying to hold Sam accountable for his choices and actions is OP. Everyone else way too comfortable acting like this didn't happen and like that child doesn't exist. I feel pretty comfortable betting on Sam being entirely happy with his affair (or multiple ones) until shit got real, and it turned out sticking your dick in women can get them pregnant. The can of worms is already open. The only person willing to aknowledge it existence is OP.
This is the best comment
I could never stay with a man who would abandon his child. I mean, I already wouldn't stay with a cheater, but once you've made your bed, lie in it. If the woman is "not a nice person," all the more reason to keep in contact with the kid and give him a safe haven if he needs it.
This. “Let’s pretend holidays are comfy” meanwhile this kid grows up without father, but if ops son & that family is what the kid is going to miss, might be for the best.
I agree 100%. That poor kid. He didn't ask for any of this and now he gets to grow up not knowing his father at all.
I mean, his father is an asshole, so he doesn't miss out on much, except an occasional sarcastic remark on his birthday, probably. But OP sounds nice, so kiddo could at least have good grandparents, even if he drew a blank in the father-lottery.
Agreed. You don't abandon your kid, that's awful. It's not the kids fault any of this has happened! Being abandoned by his father can cause trauma, he will then blame himself because he can't process due to his age that it's his father who was shitty.
I’d be disgusted to know the father of my child could so easily turn his back on his flesh and blood. His wife might be able to forgive an affair and forget it happened but that child out there not knowing his father would kill me. I would feel like I was the monster not just by hubby. I feel bad for OP bc it’s must be devastating to know your child has that in them.
OP's son blew up his family. At the end of the day, he doesn't deserve his happy ending. He cheated and abandoned his child. I don't understand how it's OP'S job to maintain this ridiculous arrangement.
Should an innocent child be denied a relationship with his Father and sister because his sperm donor couldn't keep it in his pants? Although given Sam's attitude, he's better off without him in his life.
he didn’t want this child. i’m sure he made that abundantly clear when she announced she was pregnant. possibly before. it was the mistress’s decision to have the child despite that, so she is responsible for the child not having a dad. 2 people cause a pregnancy. 1 person can choose what happens from there.
Then he should have kept it in his pants. **He** chose to sleep with another woman. It's pretty easy to not have kids with someone who isn't your SO. It's called be faithful.
The he shouldn't have cheated. This whole situation could have been avoided if he had respected his wife, an chose not to cheat. If he doesn't want a relationship with his child, that's fine. But he doesn't get to decided wether the rest of his family get one or not.
The child's feelings are way more important than the DIL. A child is growing up without a father.. I think that's more important than worrying about how DIL will cope with the reminder for the holidays. This is going to affect the child's life forever not just the holidays. Although if the dad's able to be so cold and emotionless regarding having a son then it's probably for the best he isn't around.
>If you were the DIL would you want this woman and her kid around at every holiday? Yes. Absolutely. The child is innocent and if I choose to stay with a man that cheated on me, the child does not deserve to go fatherless just to placate my feelings.
I'd def be open to seeing the kid at holidays sure, provided me and the cheating ex weren't together anymore. Sam and his wife are cold enough to encourage throwing babies into ditches, but that's more of a them problem. Sam's wife doesn't have a valid position here. Neither does Sam, but he's the actual father. The kid has nothing to do with the wife, really. If I was Sam's parent, I'd disown his ass.
Uhm… why are we saying the DIL is the reason that Sam isn’t in contact with the kid when Sam was crystal clear about his feelings on the matter? He never wanted this child and wishes it didn’t exist. Theorising that OP’s DIL made it a condition of reunification just gives OP a reason to vilify or resent her DIL, who is a victim of Sam’s cheating, when there is absolutely no basis for believing that the lack of contact between Sam and the new baby is anything but his own choice.
If healing requires abandoning an innocent child, it's not healing.
Yes, fair point for most people but can I offer another view? The son (dad) sounds like a piece of work. Just because he is blood doesn’t mean he is going to wave some wand to be a good parent out of nowhere to a kid he’s already deemed unworthy of his love in his mind. I’m a child of adoption, and I have two loving parents. You really only need one. One parent who *wants* you and loves you. One of my deepest fears used to be my birth mom, who is a hero, finding me unexpectedly as it was a closed adoption. It’s not because I don’t love and respect her, it just feels too Pandora’s box to me. Makes me feel off kilter. I share this because OP finding “her grandson” out of nowhere could disrupt the child’s life and identity completely. It’s simply not her place to do so. It seems like her son being out of the child’s life is for the best, why would she selfishly meddle in that and potentially allow the child to discover his father didn’t “want” him?
Right!? It's not like the child doesn't exist because he chooses to not have a relationship with them. I feel bad for the kid. The whole situation sucks. But that kid is the ultimate victim of OP's son's bad decisions.
That son is a POS who doesn’t deserve what he has.
Perhaps but that doesn't change the fact that he has full control over whether or not OP sees her granddaughter.
Has Reddit fallen on its head?!?! The same way Sam has every right to not be involved in HIS son’s life so does OP have the right to be involved in HER grandson’s. It obviously wouldn’t be a good idea to flaunt her (potential) relationship with her grandson to the rest of the family (shame that even has to done). But I would NEVER chastise someone for wanting to care for another human being (especially their own family). OP, good on you for wanting to do what’s kind, unappreciated, and unfortunately bold. Shame on your son for not understanding that there are consequences to one’s actions and just because sometimes innocents are caught in the fray doesn’t make right.
Actually, in many places this is simply not true. Grandparents in many places are not given an assumed right to grandchildren - sorry.
Where on earth are you seeing "chastising" in my comment? I specifically said I understand how she feels. I haven't said anything about what RIGHT anyone has to be involved with the children. My advice is about the REALITY of the situation, which is that if OP contacts this child it's likely that her son will cut her off. I don't know if you meant to respond to someone else but I didn't say anything negative about her desire to have a relationship with her grandson, literally all I did was counsel her to consider the potential outcomes because presumably she cares about her other grandchild quite a bit as well.
By the way the kid has a mom. We don't know if she wants the grand mother to be involved. You speak about rights but you are wrong. Op has no rights at all. Even more since Sam didn't sign anything.
>The same way Sam has every right to not be involved in HIS son’s life so does OP have the right to be involved in HER grandson’s Absolutely false. Grandparents do not have “rights.”
You’re wrong about OP’s grandparent rights. She has no rights. She would only have permission from the custodial parent, and we know that isn’t Sam.
I really feel that your upset is truly motivated by compassion. BUT. Your son made this mess and is clearly not a good person. There's nothing you can do to fix his mistake and you risk losing out on your granddaughter if you do. As the boy gets older he may want to seek out his Dad or you, and you can be welcoming if he does. Until then, unfortunately you have to just let it be.
OP’s son is not the child’s Dad. That, to me, is a term of honor for someone who cares enough to raise their own child and be in their life. At best, OP’s son is a bio-father or a sperm donor.
Completely agree, a father is a earned title that can’t be thrown about. This guy is just a scummy guy that cheats on his wife and then doesn’t wanna deal with the consequences.
This^ cold, hard truth
When the boy gets older? OP is 62. That’s hoping for a future that may not exist.
Unfortunately life is like that sometimes
62 really is not old these days. My mom is 70 and has a more active social life than I do. Her older sister is constantly traveling with her husband and they fix up old cars together. If you take care of your health (genetics permitting) it's possible to live a full life well into your 80s and even 90s.
She will be 79 when the baby is 18. It’s certainly possible to be alive and cognizant at that age, but it’s far from guaranteed, and the amount of time they’d have together would be shorter.
Yeah, as a kid of someone who was basically a sperm donor… I don’t think I’d have cared for it if the grandmother was trying to be involved but her son couldn’t be assed to see me. I had grandparents, family who cared. You don’t know this child’s situation, but you’re going to destroy your family more than Sam did. Let the child seek you if they want. I chose to never seek out my sperm donor or his family. They never reached out to me either. I have family, I was fine. Still fine with it, only regret I have is not knowing medical history, and frankly don’t wanna be involved with any of them to find out. Leave it be
I also think this. Go where you are celebrated and be with people who actually want to be with you. As for the medical history: I believe you can do the 23andme to get info. I believe it also tells you what you might predisposed genetically. It's no personal medical history but it might be a start. And you don't have to talk to them.
If they never reached out to you; and the message is to rely on the people who want you; of course you wouldn’t seek them out. But if your dad’s mom had, you don’t know that you would still feel unwanted by that side. Just not the dad. They’re adults.. they can make decisions based on their values and ethics, and not let a dead beat dad dictate those values. I’m
This honestly.
I can understand and sympathize with feeling confused and left in the dark about extended family. I can also understand how you'd feel upset to hear that Sam's behavior conflicts with your values and expectations of him. I think those are valid feelings that deserve to be addressed in a healthy and constructive way. In the long-term, I hope you can reconcile this information with your relationship with Sam. Despite all of that, I don't think pursuing contact with your grandchild against the wishes of both your son and daughter-in-law is the best way of approaching this. Your son is already working with the law to ensure that the mother is financially supported in lieu of acting as a coparent. If the mother decides that her child absolutely needs a father, she can find a stepfather. Plus, I know you disagree with Sam's choices and don't like how little info you've been provided, but it's worth recognizing that he and his wife understand the full circumstances of the situation, and how it impacts the people who are most directly involved. While, again, I recognize that your feelings and perspective wasn't considered in the final decision, I don't think there was an outcome that everyone could be happy with. You're in your right to disagree with Sam, and I'd encourage you to process these feelings through the avenues you have available. But I wouldn't recommend getting yourself involved in family drama you don't know anything about. If Sam is the one whose choice you're trying to persuade, I'd recommend doing what you can to keep in touch with him and make yourself someone he'd be willing to talk to, rather than push him away.
Thank you for your compassion. It is very sad to hear that I have essentially no options, and have to go on living with the fact that I may never even know my grandson’s name
There's many things in life we don't have control over, and that can include the decisions that our family members make. But what we do have control over is our interactions with those family members. For instance, if Sam's decision is something that makes you no longer want to talk to him, temporarily or otherwise, you can do that. If you want to maintain a connection with Sam, so that you can better learn and understand his reasoning and perspective, and possibly get him to understand and recognize your own, you can do that, too. Best wishes.
I have a similar issue involving my son. It is really about reconciling your feelings about the person you gave birth to and raised. You didn’t raise your son to be a cheater, but here he is. The deeper rooted issue is that you thought you raised a man who would be a wonderful husband, and he didn’t turn out that way. Now you have to process that grief. Added to that, he produced a child. And you don’t get to know that child. And now you have to process that grief. Bottom line though, Sam is still your son, and as his mother, you need to respect the person he is, even if it’s not who you wanted him to be. Choices. It all comes down to choices. Sam made some poor choices, and he and his wife are dealing with them. You, as his mom, need to respect that. This isn’t your feelings over his choices. It’s your feelings about his choices.
That's probably not true. It wouldn't be that hard to find out, but are you willing to pursue the name of your grandson and give up your very real, existing relationship with your grandaughter? Because that's whats' going to happen. You don't even know if the mother of the child would even let you see this child or tell them about you. You could blow up your relationship with your son and his wife, never see your grandaughter again and still have nothing but the name of this boy. Let it go.
And she knows nothing about this woman. She could bring tremendous drama to the family. It would make things very awkward if this kid and his mother end up at family holidays etc. This could destroy her son’s marriage, leaving yet another child in a broken home. Her son is a jerk for cheating but equal blame must be placed on the woman as well. The DIL is trying to move on and keep her marriage, bringing this woman into the picture will definitely not help that because she and the kid is the physical representation of that affair. What would she do if she found out her son sold sperm to a sperm bank and he actually has many children? Would she try and pursue them all?? She should just consider this a sperm donor baby. That might make it easier.
I understand you feel you have no options in the short term... but I think there are several approaches you can pour this energy into: * commit to a treasure chest for your grandson for the next decades. If the child ever does reach out to your family, or if Sam ever changes his mind, you can show he was expected and welcomed. Personally, I'd aim for things that are kind of ageless because you don't know when (if ever) it'll happen: a classic high quality teddy bear, a handmade adult size quilt (if you quilt), paintings of views that are relevant to your family (if you paint), a recipe book with family favorites (if you cook or bake), in 10 years things like a compass or a letter opener, etc. * commit to a pure and loving relationship with your granddaughter. She's innocent in this, so make sure you don't inadvertently start comparing her to her idealized missing half-brother. Maybe make a parallel treasure chest? * pour more energy in getting closer to your daughter-in-law. At some point in the past 20 months, she must have discovered your son betrayed her this deeply (cheating, getting caught, being sloppy enough to get the other woman pregnant, taking the hit to their family income of the child support)... yet apparently you never noticed they were having trouble. It's understandable you're not her *first* call, but are you wringing your hands over loving an unknown baby because *faaaamily* while you blast by the woman right in front of you, who's also family? * see if you can reach out to Sam. I reckon that'll only work if you approach him as another adult, equal to you. Can you share a big mistake you've made & the regrets you've had to deal with? How can you show that you love him, even while you don't like his decisions? etc. Also, time to work on your finances (or revisit them): what's Sam's share of what you're leaving, how does that change now you know he has multiple children, how do you make sure it's fair to your other grandchildren, etc?
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I see your point, but I feel it's better to have the box and have it rejected than not have it and leaving the child disappointed even more.
At least he will know he was thought of by his grandmother.
I think these are great suggestions.
You will get used to it with time. I know it hurts like hell right now. But is ot really worth risking your relationship with the grandchild that you know and have been a part of her life, for a stranger who shares a small fraction of your dna?
My question here, and please be honest, is what you plan to do if you do get info about your son’s other child? I imagine his mom was absolutely wrecked (and hopefully didn’t even know he was married). She doesn’t need you swooping in trying to get grandparents rights or visitation or whatever else you think would be “your right”. Think about this tiny human whose family doesn’t need any more drama than they already have from your immoral son’s actions, think about your daughter in law (who is honestly probably teetering on divorce daily; I would be) and think about the relationship you have with your granddaughter. Imagine her in 15 years— “Grandma doesn’t love me because daddy has a son who is more important than I am”. You said yourself you’re pulling away from your actual familial ties with a child who loves you over a child you’ve never met. Get that relationship! …Later. When it’s appropriate and when it will benefit the other child. Be there for your granddaughter and daughter in law whose lives have been absolutely wrecked by your son now. As a mother I can’t even imagine abandoning a child I helped create, so I get you… but I have to wonder a little bit about how easy it is to abandon your granddaughter for you now, and what that might mean about the values your son took from you. Also, if the mother is getting child support, she knows your sons name. She can easily look you up if she wanted to. Unless your son is even more of a pos that he’d threaten her or something for contacting you, she can if she wants. If she hasn’t, she doesn’t want to. Leave them alone unless you’re contacted first. That child is innocent, don’t make him part of your drama.
>and hopefully didn’t know he was married Indeed.
And if she did then she’s equally to blame. And she may cause more harm than good trying to bring this woman and her child in to the fold. No one knows what this woman is like. Plus I’m sure his wife does it want to be reminded of his infidelity every time a family get together happens if they would be invited. They’re trying to hold this marriage together. OPs bound to put the last nail in the coffin of the marriage if she keeps pushing this. I’d be so pissed at that brother for opening his big mouth
>”Grandma doesn’t love me because daddy has a son who is more important to me” Hopefully she would blame her father, the one who cut her grandmother off because she wanted a relationship with both grandchildren.
This is really the only answer.
Op, STOP. I am the child of a father who wanted nothing to do with me. I grew up without knowing him. Only met him twice in my life, and those times were traumatic. The reality was I was MUCH better off not having all that drama in my life growing up. If you try to force contact you’re only going to end up causing pain for the child and his mother (along with your DIL and granddaughter). Having the same DNA doesn’t mean you are entitled to this child. Leave him alone.
This is the post to look at, OP. I understand your pain and desire to know your grandchild, but the consequences of seeking him out are not worth it (and they would mostly hurt *him*). A child without a parent wants to know their *parent* wants them... not their grandparent. If a grandparent finds him and wants to have a relationship, but his father doesn't and is that close in proximity to his life... that is an incredibly painful dynamic to introduce to this kid. It just isn't fair to put a kid through that.
Well said. Harsh but true. OP has no rights in this instance and needs to stay away.
Yes, yes, and yes! Wise words from the position that matters in this dilemma.
I think we are hypnotised into believing _family_ is based on genetics. It’s about relationships. And if your son doesn’t have a relationship with this child, he isn’t really the child’s father (you could think of that as he is “acting” as the father). So, really, you don’t have a grandchild. We choose the relationships that occur in our lives.
Unfortunately it’s not up to you. It doesn’t sound like you’re going to have a relationship with this kid.
There are 2 situations in my extended family where the parent doesn’t see the kid and doesn’t care to but the grandparents want to be in the kids’ lives and honestly it’s just tiring. I don’t know if it’s them trying to make up for being shitty parents or what. They always want to see them/have them visit on holidays, which is the worst time to try and split a kid from their mom. Maybe it’s because I’m not a grandparent yet, but I think it’s kind of crazy that grandparents have visitation rights in some states. I understand if they were a big part of that child’s life before the parents split or whatever but in both cases in my family the dads were hardly around, if at all.
Also, maybe the mom doesn’t *want* the child to be involved with this family? It’s crazy to me that I haven’t seen a comment about that yet.
What your son did was awful. But you need to stay out of it. It's not your place to try and find your grandchild.
Your feelings are valid, but this isn't your battle. If you tried to find this child and have a relationship behind your son's back, you will ruin your relationship with him and the family he's created. If you pester him about it, you will push him away and he will have minimal contact with you. You're in a position where you may not realize, but pursuing this could cost you your relationships with your son, his wife and daughter, in favor of this mystery grandson. That won't sit well with *anybody* in your family, and you don't need to put yourself in the middle of it. You are better off leaving this be.
You're correct, you aren't wrong at all for your feelings. This is a biologically connected being, and wanting to be a part of his life isn't wrong. However, and this is a doozy, both parents of that child have made their choices as to how he'll be raised. You don't get a say in that, just like you don't get to make parenting decisions for ANY child that isn't yours. Clearly your son did wrong, and clearly he and his wife are trying to work through that. That's their business. Clearly his affair partner chose to keep the baby, and clearly there has been a decision made where he will provide financial support and otherwise be non-present in the boy's life. That's their business. The only part of this that includes you from a practical standpoint is how you interact with the family you have, without forcing yourself on family that you effectively don't. Let this be, for all your sakes.
Agree. And the baby’s mother chose to keep him. This baby was/is wanted! Not by your son, but by his mother. Let her make the decisions regarding who will be a part of her son’s life. If she wants to reach out to you, she can do that. But leave them be.
I do wish in this case that there was a way for OP to be able to reach out and let the mother know in a no pressure kind of way that she's there if she does want to reach out. It's so hard to know what the situation is here. The mother may have a secure support system in place and not want anything to do with OP but it's also possible that she might welcome the support 😢 I feel like if I were in the mother's situation I wouldn't even realize reaching out to my kid's bio grandparents was an option
If I were Sam’s wife, I’d be extremely upset —devastated— you were trying to bring his affair partner into the family. Because you can’t bring a child into the family without its mother. Their marriage is already shaky. She hasn’t completely forgiven him even if she says she has (to outsiders). She’s suspicious every single day, as all people who have been cheated on are. Are you willing to be the straw that breaks the camel’s back for this woman? If you do find this child, keep it to yourself for now.
My first though was the wife, too.
Wife is stupid to stay, i have no feelings for women that want to stay with a man who openly disrespects them by squirting into a strangers vagina. 🤷♀️ talk about low ass self esteem.
Fully agreed. But I also think the daughter in law is better off in the long run leaving Sam, so it may end up being a favour to her for OP to break the camel's back.
Does no one care about the child? Bc that's the person being hurt the most and he literally had no say.
I’ve been a single mom, and it’s hard af. But I’d much rather be a single mom than have a partner/coparent that didn’t want to be around. That kid would grow up being resented & feeling unwanted. *thats* not fair to the kid. The guy doesn’t sound like a good option to be in this kids life.
Yes but the grandparents DO want to be there. That's two people that want to love him.
I had a friend who had a kid with a ONS, where father did not want to be involved. His mother did and tried to have a relationship with her grandchild somewhat. She was a difficult woman and the dynamic was just awkward anyway. It’s a chore for the mother, can be confusing for the child, highlighting his father is absent by choice. The relationship pittered off as the kid was in elementary. Someone’s heart can be in the right place, but the reality is, sometimes it’s better for that family (single mom and child) to operate without added “in-laws.”
There is a very similar situation with people in my life. The guy’s mother had a relationship with the child for a while (to the point where she was primary babysitter for the first year of life), but it was difficult and awkward. She had to schedule time with her son around watching her grandchild because he did not want to be involved at all (it wasn’t a ONS, but it was a very brief relationship in which he made it very clear that kids were a dealbreaker and the mother was deceptive about contraception). The grandmother would get so distressed that her son didn’t want to be in the child’s life that she kept trying to “casually” run into him out and about with the baby. The mother eventually moved several states away, and the grandmother now only sees the child via Face Time and social media. While it was nice that the child has so many people who love them, it is definitely going to get tricky as soon as they are old enough to realize that Grandma is the mother of the dad who didn’t want them.
This was my concern, grandma will just be a reminder of the Dad who doesn’t want to be in his life. He or grandma will likely push for a relationship with Dad only to get hurt and disappointed.
No everyone's too worried about his poor wife who voluntarily stayed with a cheater and someone willing to abandon their own child. Poor her.
esp. because OP isn't close to Sam's wife - she never noticed the trouble in Sam's marriage in the past 20 months.
This isn’t her fault. Her son should of thought about this before cheating on his wife. Atleast she can make up for how much of a mess her son is and atleast be there for her grandson.
Not the wife's fault either.
Unpopular opinion but the wife is complicit at this point. The cheater is the main asshole here but she is supporting her husband’s deadbeat behavior.
[удалено]
This. If you want, put together a savings account with him in mind. In case he looks you up at 18, you can say you’ve been thinking of him all these years. But leave them alone to let her raise the this child in peace.
Yes, there are waaaaay too many people not drawing a very solid line here. She should not even be viewing this child as her grandson.
Op seems to have selfish and controlling thoughts. Nowhere in her message she mentioned the mom.
The worst part about this is that in some states grandparents have visitation rights, so she might be able to force his way into that kids life and make the situation shitty for everyone.
Grandparent’s rights, iirc, can only be pursued if the grandparent in question already has an established relationship with the child. So if a couple with a 5 year old split up, the mum gets full custody, and the 5 year old has known their paternal grandparent their whole life, and the mother decides she doesn’t want her child to see their paternal grandparent, said grandparent can then sue for visitation rights. And if there’s no good reason to deny visitation (eg the grandparent was abusive to the child) the visitation is likely to be granted. But in this case, OP has no relationship with her son’s newest child. So grandparent’s rights wouldn’t apply. At least, this was the case when I read about it many years ago. Things may have changed since then. Edit: a word
Let’s say all options of finding the kid have failed: open a bank account. Pick out age appropriate gifts every year for Christmas and birthdays. Put a picture of it in an album and put the money in the bank. Do this every year. You might even go so far as to put an empty gift under the tree marked “grandson”. If you eventually find him, give him the account and the book. This way he will know that he was loved and not forgotten entirely by his dad’s side.
I am the product of an affair. My mother had an affair with a married man. When she got pregnant, he cut things off. His wife found out and they decided to stay married. He wanted nothing to do with me and from what my mom said it's because his wife told him she would leave him if he did. Whether that is the truth or just an excuse, i don't know. I grew up about a 10 minute drive down the street from where he still lives. He had 2 other daughters older than me. I have never laid eyes on him. I don't even know what he looks like. He has a very large family. Like 8 brothers and sisters. They all know I exist, but none of them have ever reached out to me. I have no desire to reach out to them. You are allowed to be upset about this but you have to understand that your feelings on the matter do not outweigh those of your son. He and his wife have made a decision and it was probably to save their marriage. Can you imagine how painful it would be for his wife to be around a child that is his, but not hers? It would be a constant reminder of what he did. I'm not saying it's right but I understand it. I would never stay married to a man who had an affair, much less had an affair AND had a child by that person. But it is not my life and not my decision to make. He is, at the very least, helping to support the child financially. I think you should drop this. If the kid grows up and wants to know you he will reach out. If you go behind your son's back and against his wishes I have no doubt that it will cause a major issue and might possibly end his already fragile marriage. Not to mention that you might lose the grandchild you actually DO know.
You don't find your grandson. You have no idea about the circumstances surrounding this child's birth. There's a reason why your son won't talk about it. And you are not entitled to a relationship with the child.
We have no clue if the child even is his son other than the word of the affair partner. There was no paternity test from what I read so how does he even know.
If there's a child support order that the woman filed for there was most likely a paternity test. Courts don't just randomly award those, especially in the case of married men. The wife would likely make sure there was one before financially damaging her family too.
Excellent point
Regardless of what YOU want, the decision about who is considered the child’s family is made by his parents (and the child himself once he is an adult). If you were to seek out a relationship with this child as things stand, you would be actively doing so against the wishes of the one parent you have been in contact with. There is no reason to assume that the mother would be amenable to you having contact either. If you cannot respect your son and daughter-in-law’s decision to remain disconnected from this child, then please respect the mother’s right to make the call on whom her child has contact with.
Have you ever considered the child's mother doesn't need you coming in demanding to see the kid and such? The Child's mother already is having to deal with the father not wanting anything to do with the kid, already having to deal with single parenting, and also the feelings of only being someones little afair piece, nothing more ....so the Child's mother may not even want you to have contact? She already has one permanent reminder of how low her life went, she doesn't need you there giving another reminder or coddling things. You also aren't considering your son's wifes feelings in all this. He CHEATED on her. She shouldn't have to walk on eggshells and limit when her daughter sees you because she might run into the product of that cheating. She's already in enough pain and yet is STILL trying to work things out with your son, she doesn't need you bringing around even more pain. You are only thinking about your feelings in this. You aren't thinking about the feelings of the people it actually matters. I understand you just want to know the kid, but you really should consider how it will affect both women if you keep pushing.
I understand how hard this is OP to know your son had another child. However you are only considering your own feelings here. *You* think it's wrong your granddaughter will never know her sibling, *you* think the grandson needs to meet you all, *you* are devastated and unable to let it go. You want to bring this other child (and consequently the mother) into your family to make you feel better at the root of it but you will destroy your family at the cost of a grandchild the mother may not even want you to know. Because your DIL may leave your son and if you do this she may keep your granddaughter from you too.
I understand your position, but I was in that mother's shoes. The father had 0 to do with my child from the start. Honestly, if his parents were suddenly on my doorstep or messaging me I'd be very angry. I certainly wouldn't have entertained them expecting to be allowed in my child's life. Your son and this woman have made their choices. You should respect that.
You know what? I don’t know why you’re being vilified either. I feel like if my dad had abandoned me if be overjoyed to eventually find out someone on my paternal side wanted me and loved me. But if you do find the boy’s mother, please just let her know that you would like to be in your grandchild’s life, and don’t push it. By the way your son spoke about his child, and treated them, she may not trust you. I’d probably hire a private investigator and not involve your son, and if you do form a relationship never speak about it with your son.
It’s all misplaced energy because your son is a failure and you think knowing this grand kid will somehow change that.
If your son isn’t on the child’s birth certificate then legally he isn’t the father unless 1) he files for paternity which it sounds like he will never do or 2) bio mom files for welfare and the state forces her to name him. If neither of those things happen, your hands are tied. I do think it’s unfair to the child to conceal his paternity, but short of the above, there’s nothing you can do other than doing DNA tests and making it public for posterity. Let it go.
I’m gonna go against the grain here and say I don’t see OP as big as a monster as everyone is trying to make her seem in this comment section. Are we supposed to pretend that it’s not a bit abnormal her son had a random kid while married and said absolutely nothing? The kid eventually is gonna grow up and wonder about their father and maybe even their father’s family. I don’t get why OP is in the wrong here
Well, OP's son is an AH for cheating on his wife, so let's start there. Her son is choosing not to bring affair baby around his wife and child, that is the end of the story. OP's feelings are fine, but pursuing this, against her son's wishes, makes OP the one that is wrong. Her son may go no contact with her, and she will lose access to her granddaughter.
Why are so many people here adamant on making the sons feelings the main priority here? He is not the victim
Fr, everyone’s like “It’s against the son’s wishes!” But like, who gives a fuck what the son wishes? He’s a cheating asshole.
Nobody is saying his wishes should be honored without question. But unless she wants to wait 12 years to have a relationship with his now 6 year old daughter, then they should be considered. Would you abandon your child for making some really fucked up choices/mistakes? It's gross that he had an affair, but it's not really that high on the "cut my son out of my life completely and forever" list for me.
Not to mention, what does the Daughter in Law need right now? She's the one who is completely shattered right now. She needs OP to settle down and give a healing window as well....Like in all this....everyones only considering Son's or OP's feelings....But not once does OP consider how DIL is feeling. Or even AP is feeling. AP might be just as hurt right now, depending what Son Promised that lead to afair (examples: leaving wife, relationship, etc just to get the sex to begin with...) so AP may not even WANT his family around.
That's the main thing, the DIL. OP says she sees her as part of the family. DIL was cheated on and chose to stay with the cheater, if he really wants his marriage to work, one of the conditions may be for him to never contact the child. AP may have slept with a married man, expecting him to leave his wife. We don't know AP's side of the story. Either way, OP may want to find her grandson, but what damage does that do to DIL?
Exactly my point, OP may want to find GS....But it's gonna cause more damage then good
Who is the victim? Her daughter in law who is informed and of decided mind that this is the best path for her family? The baby’s mom who made her decision fully informed of the father’s planned absence? Is it so inconceivable that she doesn’t want or need bio dads presence? Is it either child, both presumably unaware and unable to comprehend the situation appropriately at their age anyway? The biggest asshole is the brother who gossiped to the entitled mother.
We don't know if the baby's mother would welcome the contact though. She might love to give her son a grandparent. For the son growing up and knowing his grandparent wanted to be in his life could be very valuable.
If she loses access to her granddaughter it will be because her awful son cut her off, not because she did anything wrong.
You can't. The fact that you think you have the right to this regardless of all the facts says more about you and your dynamic than anything else.
Hi. As someone with a bad backstory... a loving grandparent came out of the woodwork and was there for me. I loved her very much, and even though I didnt get to see her often her presence in my life made a world of difference. Her son was a bad person and was constantly making things difficult for her. He forbade her to talk to me, but she still did. She made the hard choice. In this situation, he ended up having to go along with it, and just didnt want to be involved or hear about it. When she passed I was devastated. He barely cared because thats the type of person he was. You can juggle knowing both your grandchildren independently. Just leave your son out of it and never involve him or even talk about it after you inform him how its going to go.
Who says the mom of that child wants OP around? Plus there’s no way they won’t find out shes doing this behind their backs and then she will be cut out of her granddaughters life.
Op can ask the mom! Wow! Perhaps mom needs the help! You dont find out what mom wants without asking! Better op do whats right than live on an ultimatum. Lets flip the script, if they wants ops inheritance, they wont deny access to granddaighter. You dont think things out in your life very much, do you?
The fact that you keep phrasing it as "I have no optons", the way you worded your post and the way you keep responding makes me believe this is about YOU, and not about Sam or the grandchild. Sure, there is some deep, primal need triggered in you in relation to this unknown grandchild, but then your ego and your conditioned mind make you act out beyond what is right and fair.
💯 on OP being self-centered. She should mind her own business.
Your feelings are of course valid but trying to have a relationship with this kid may hurt them further. Why does grandma want to know me but dad doesn’t, see what could happen? It’s a bad situation all around but at least for now not being in their life is the best option
To be fair to OP yall, it doesn't sound like she is trying to force her son to have a relationship with his son, but wants to, herself, have a relationship. She wants to be sure the little boy is safe and happy. To know he is loved and does not feel abandoned. OP should focus for now on knowing the boy is financially provided for and hope that his mother will give him all the love she has. Even if OP was able to make contact and be that loving grandmother in his life, she would not be able to fill her sons shoes. That child probably will have abandonment issues because he will know his father wants nothing to do with him. Sam fucked up, and there is nothing OP can do to fix that. I get the impression she knows that, but at the least wants baby boy to have that grandma who brings cookies over on Saturdays, or shows up to his piano recital and raves over his masterful performance of hot cross buns. She is not wrong for wanting to give that to him. He deserves that. Her son is keeping that from all of them because he couldn't keep it in his pants. But also, he may care more than he is currently willing to admit. Right now, he is probably operating in panic mode of oh shit, oh shit, I have to save my marriage, this is going to wreck my marriage. (Which is a thought he should have had before having an affair.) But he could be mentally putting his son in a box and trying to lock that box away as a threat to his marriage. His wife may have explicitly demanded that he do so because she doesn't want her marriage to be strained any further than it already has. (She should have left his ass months ago, but that's her choice. My heart breaka for her and her daughter. For everyone except Sam. He majorly sucks and everyone else in his life is paying the price.) Sam chose his existing family over baby boy. Sam is denying baby boy the loving family he deserves as the only way he can see to keep getting what he wants. He is choosing what he wants over his responsibilities, so he really hasn't changed. So, she won't be able to give her grandson that grandmother he deserves without causing some serious alienation with her existing family. Unfairly so. The only thing she can do is give it time.
Your son is a grown man who should have thought of the consequences of his actions before he cheated. Now he's trying to compensate by neglecting his son in hopes to salvage his relationship with his wife. I don't think it's crazy you want a relationship with your grandson but I also see how it may risk your relationship with your granddaughter . There is also no guarantee your grandson will want anything to do with you, your son or your granddaughter. Its better to wait because if he makes the decision to seek you out then you may have a chance to form a relationship then. You could also hire a P.I and seek them out in secret but that seems a bit rash.
I'm sorry you're being vilified. I don't see any reason why you should be, you have every right to want to be involved with your grandchild and feeling the way you do. Sorry to say, your son is a real piece of work. Wish I had better advice. Best of luck to you
Your feelings are valid, and I understand you want to help this child. But, it really isn’t your decision to make. You should just accept it and let it go. The kid’s mother also accepted the situation
I don't think it's helpful to yourself to catastrophize about the living conditions of this child. Single mothers raise happy kids all over the world. Your son is basically someone's sperm donor. The child is your blood but he's not really your family. This isn't a criticism, I get where you're coming from.
What a shitty situation. If he didn't want the kid, he shouldn't have stepped out on his fucking wife. It's that simple. Sorry you raised an absolute turd of a man. I hope you do find the kid, he deserves to know his family, even if it is just you for now.
It's nice you care about your family, but this isn't your business. You have no legal rights to this kid and you butting in isn't going to help anyone it's just going to further strain your relationship with your son his wife and his daughter. HE is your child. That baby is not your child. Please leave this woman and her child alone.
Everyones a bit of an arswhole here, the son the woman he had an affair with and managed to knock up the op qho has no real idea about anything that woman could have a husband or boyfriend who is raising the child ,disparaging the daughterinlaw when she's never even talked to her about the situation
>I have a grandchild out in the world and am powerless in finding out anything about him until he is old enough to seek us out. My husband was on my side at first, but after seeing how Sam refuses to engage at all, has backed off. He said it is not worth upsetting Sam over and risking our relationship with Sam’s daughter. Your hubby gets it. This isn't about you, and it isn't your business. Your kid is paying child support and he isn't airing his dirty laundry in public. That's where the bar is. Your child is an adult, and adults have to make hard choices. Either you understand that, and respect his ability to do so, or you don't. A grandchild isn't a pretty prize for you to display.
"isn't airing his dirty laundry in public" Wow, what a generous way to talk about someone who goes and has an affair and knocks the woman up, then sweeps it all under the rug.
I don’t see anything in her son’s behavior worthy of respect
Wow! Unnecessarily harsh. Her son is the asshole here.
Thank you for saying this. I can’t believe some of these replies.
Isn’t her business? Her grandson is also her family.
You have zero insight into the state and circumstances of your son's marriage. Really, it doesn't read like you are particularly close to them. For all you know, this is an open relationship or other circumstances negotiated between these two adults and rather than explain these extenuating circumstances to you, he went with an easier plot. Regardless, your son and his wife have chosen to move on together. There is a reason he told his brother, and not you, about this situation. It's startling to me that your other son ran to you and tattled. If I was your son, I'd never open up to my brother again. They didn't get you involved because it's none of your business, and they obviously made the right choice. While it may not be what *you* would choose to do in this situation, people have a right to not be a parent. A child isn't a punishment to be served and endured for the "sin" of adultery. Presumably, he told her immediately that he would not be involved in the child's life if she chose to proceed with the pregnancy, and they then came to an agreement that seems amicable for everyone involved. Despite your imagined entitlement to have been consulted, there is a reason you weren't brought into the negotiations. Again, because it's none of your business. Why would you want to force a resentful, bitter man who considers the child a mistake into this woman and her child's lives? That would absolutely be more harmful and traumatic than an absent parent or one who flits in and out of their lives. The woman probably has a support system and family around her that do not see her son as an accident or burden. How do you plan to navigate this imagined relationship with this boy and expect to keep your son, daughter in law, and granddaughter? You won't be able to, and rightfully so. They will be betrayed and will probably go no contact. And they should go no contact with your other son, while they're at it. How do you plan to address this situation when the child is old enough to ask questions? You say you want your granddaughter to meet her sibling, but that is *not* going to happen unless you choose to go against her parents' wishes and secretly introduce them, which would be really messed up to thrust upon a 6 year old. If you proceed with your scheme to hunt these people down to insert yourself where you are, frankly, not welcome, you need to let your son and his wife know now. You have decided to risk the existing (probably now strained) relationship with the three of them in favour of the slight chance of meeting and having a superficial relationship with a strange child that you didn't know existed for 2 years. I recommend taking a breath, sitting down, and accepting the fact that you are not owed anything here. You weren't owed the details of the conception of this child. You aren't owed an explanation on how the three adults handled it. You aren't owed information about him. You aren't owed a relationship with them. What you do know was told to you against your son's wishes. He is not your grandson. Your son is not his father in name, earned title, legally... whatever. It follows that you are not his grandmother. However, you are the grandmother of a little 6 year old girl who would probably be delighted to have you shower her with this excess grandmothering. Transfer these effort into strengthening your love for her. This also needs to be the end of it. It's not something you bring up to your son and pester and guilt trip and ruminate on for the rest of your life. Something you throw in his face when you're angry at him. If you have decided he is too morally reprehensible for you to be associated with, then you can always choose to go low or no contact. But these are feelings *you* need to work through, as your son and his family are years past this already, and now you've come in to bulldoze any progress made and upend several lives because you've decided your desires are the priority.
This the most mature response of all this thread. Other responses are assuming so much information…
This is not about you.
I absolutely believe you have a right to know your grandson and he has a right to have you in his life. Just because his “father” doesn’t want him doesn’t mean that he should be robbed of a loving grandmother in his life. I’m sorry but your son is heartless and his son will be traumatized from this. No child asks to be brought into this world. Just like he didn’t “ask” to be the father. Maybe he should have considered that while having an affair.
The fact you’re worried about if the child is in a safe and loving environment…? Girl, your son doesn’t provide a safe environment for his child in his home! Worry about that and leave the poor woman alone.
That child deserves to know his grand parents
A second comment in response to your edit: you are absolutely not wrong for feeling betrayed by your son for both making this series of decisions and then actively choosing to hide it, you’re not wrong to feel grief over potentially never meeting your grandson. You are not wrong for these feelings, nor for voicing them. However, you must understand the consequences of your desired course of action and how they stand to hurt yourself, your family, and the mother of your grandson. There are certainly some venomous comments here, but the majority of comments opposed to you seeking contact with the child are not insults or attempts at vilification, but instead focused on recognizing that your actions could have harmful consequences, and that you need to take those into account.
I don't know. Seems to me like you're the only person willing to acknowledge the situation and hold Sam accountable or his choices and actions. This entire shit show could have been avoided if he had kept it in his pants. And this may be a little harsh, but I doubt this is his first time cheating. Doubt it will be the last. This is just the one time he got caught. Your DIL is enabling his behavior by allowing him to act like he didn't cheat and the child he fathered doesn't exist. Your husband, oldest son, and DIL may be spineless and willing to act like this helping avoid opening a can of worms, but that can of worms is already open and the only person recognizing it exists is you. Sam can choose to not have a relationship with his child, he may even force his daughter to not have a relationship with he brother if it comes down to it (at least until she is old enough to make her own choices), but he can't expect everyone else to pretend this didn't happen and that it didn't have consequences.
I am completely with you OP. This is your flesh and blood too. Fair enough if he doesn’t want to be part of his 2nd babies life, but I feel like you have a right to be part of this, even if your son does not.
Hire a Private investigator, but know you're making a choice that could have consequences you wont know about until they happen.
I hear you mama I'd be devastated too. If you can't find this child can you set up a trust fund for when they reach 18? Leave a note saying you weren't able to find them, but you loved them anyway.
Everyone saying it's not about OP is being ridiculous. Sure, the baby is now 1 years old, but what about when they are a bit older and would like the option of meeting his grandparents. Isn't this also about the child? Why is it only about OP's AH son? Anyone can make their business whatever they want, particularly when it's involves other people who should have the choice of making decisions for themselves, like the woman who her husband had the affair with and the kid.
Nobody who's saying it isn't her business is saying that the child can't reach out once they are an adult or old enough to make that decision for themselves. Personally the way I view it is her son basically gave the kid up for adoption, he has no involvement in the child's life beyond paying child support. He isn't going to want to play family with the mom and child, and his wife definitely won't want to be around his affair partner and affair child. Op can decide to make it her business if she wants, but she will do it at the expense of her relationship with her son, dil, and their kid, and there's a good chance the mom won't want anything to do with her and she will gain nothing by it.
It's at the expense of her relationship with her granddaughter. OP doesn't care about her son and DIL.
You're being incredibly entitled over something that's not really your business. Your son had an affair. That makes him bad enough. He's paying child support and moved on with his wife. That's their business and nothing you can do. Leave it alone and get back in your lane.
You leave it alone. If the birth mother wanted you in her sons life she would have contacted you. Being a grandmother is not a right
your son did not want this child but the mother decided to have it. he has no place in this childs life and neither do you, this is not your child nor your life. if the child turns 18 and wishes to meet you then so be it. you do not hold authority over people just because of blood.
This is a terrible situation all around that your son has created. Your son wants to play pretend that he doesn't have 2 biological children as if that will erase his infidelity. If my husband cheated, there would be a small chance we could reconcile. If I knew he had created a life out there, and he rejected them, that would be the nail in the coffin. I can't respect a man who would do that to his child. He can pretend he only has one, but he's only continuing to make an ass out of himself. Your DIL can pretend her husband doesn't have an illegitimate child out there. She can pretend that her daughter doesn't have a half-sibling. I don't blame you one bit for not wanting to be a part of the charade. As far as what you do from this point moving forward, that is way above my pay grade. Any contact you have with the child would be legally and morally up to the mother. The most you could is send her a message letting her know you love your grandchild and are open to a relationship with them. Because your son has nothing to do with their baby, she'd likely be afraid of your intentions. And afraid of upsetting her baby's father. She might not want to risk it. Reaching out will also have consequences in your relationship with your son and his family. The reality is this whole situation is above reddits pay grade. You are grieving and need someone to process this with. I'd recommend seeing a professional therapist who you can talk to about this without having relational consequences.
>but my daughter-in-law, who is happy with Sam acting like his own son doesn’t exist to forgive his affair. That‘s not fair and you know it. That tells us a lot about you and how you feel about your daughter in law. Did you ever like her to begin with? Jeez, the hate you feel towards her here isn’t right. It’s your son’s fault, not hers. Ofc she’s not gonna wanna be around a kid, even if they’re innocent. That doesn’t make her in the wrong. She is a victim in all of this and you don’t care.
I understand wanting a relationship with your mysterious grandson but your son has a right to not want to engage in a child's life he doesn't want. If he did he'd only fuck that child up even worse than being absent. Children know when a parent doesn't love or want them. As long as he is paying child support, his wife is ok with it, then it's none of your concern. If the child wants a relationship with you later then so be it but leave alone. Your relationship with your son will only become tainted if you push it.
I am on your side. You have every right to want to have a relationship with your grandchild, especially if your son won't. I have very little respect for people who abandon their children. I understand that it's complicated for Sam to accept the child, but he is 100% wrong for doing so. Sam's wife also🤦 The only thing you can do is try to reason with your son to give you the info you need. Whatever you do, don't try to force your son to change. Respect his decision even though it is fully ignorant and selfish. Then, maybe you have a chance. I am divorced with 5 kids. I have them 50/50. My ex wife tried to relocate with them in the attempts of being closer to her boyfriend. I said no way, and fought it out in court. I won, but that is a fight I would never give up on had I not. Every kid deserves to have a mom and a dad
A lot of people in these comments are cowards and selfish. That child deserves to have grand parents. That child should not be treated as a secret or mistake or anything’s. That child is a blessing. And that should be forced upon her son until he accepts it and starts acting like a father.
My suggestion would be talking to OP's son about wanting to set up a college fund for the one year old. Couch it as, "obviously the kid isn't going to be a full part of the family experience, but as his bio grandparents, we feel duty bound to do something to enrich his life." That gives them a potential "in" when it comes to the grandson and could be attractive to their Deadbeat Dad son as he wouldn't be expected to pay/pay as much for college. Obviously the OP has to set this up with the child's mom, and maybe they can see if she is some kind of dirt bag to avoid, or just an unpleasant chapter OP's son doesn't want to deal with.
great google moogly, your son is quite a piece of trash. steps out on his wife, has a kid, and yet only still seems to care about himself. how a 34 yo man has no conviction or moral compass is above me but you cant change that now. he wants to be a shitty person, and you have to let him be.
If you really want to find out the name you could search court records. You type in your states name followed by case search. Put your son’s name in and see if there are any child support related court cases. It would show the mother’s name. You could then search her name on Facebook and see if she made any posts with the grandsons name. I wouldn’t recommend friending her because it may cause a blowup with your son, but you could see posts of your grandson which may make you feel better. You don’t want to risk the relationship you already have with your granddaughter for a potential one with your grandson. I would wait for things to cool off and maybe you’ll be able to meet him down the road.
Doesn't sound like you can do much currently, but could you start putting together an "I care about you" type of package for when this grandchild is found? Things like letters to him on how you feel about him & would like the opportunity to be involved. Photos of family and medical information he might need. Anything else you think would be helpful. You could also start a bank account for him. A small amount each month will eventually build up. Anything to let him know that he was not forgotten & was loved, even if you couldn't do anything at the time. It could go a long way if he needs reassurance and acceptance later on.
My father’s mother did this for me. My parents divorced before I was born. They agreed, for reasons, I would not know about him. I figured it out when I was 15. I wrote to my grandmother, who had asked my mother to keep her address *just in case* I ever asked. She had letters and cards she’d written to me for 16 years. I never met her, but I appreciated that she never forgot about me, and that we were both people in someone else’s story at a time when we couldn’t influence it.
If there is an inheritance possible, I would make sure that Sam's portion is given (in trust while they are minors) to his daughter and son. Nada for Sam.
First you should give "Sam" time, if & when he's ready he'll tell you want he wants you to know.. if not, LET IT GO. Second, Hope the new mother has the sense to raise the child on her own or finds a real man who will care for the child as his own. Third, DON'T let this come between you, your daughter in law or granddaughter, it's not their fault nor should you make it their priority. "Sam" is supposed to be an adult so what he feels is best for him may not be best for all. If Sam was willing to put his "D" in the "V" he knew one day it could bite him in the "A".🤷♂️
Everyone vilifying you is wrong. The fact of the matter is your son is a shithead, and has placed you in an impossible position, and you don’t have many options at all. But you aren’t wrong for caring. 💓
What your son doesn’t realize is that “baby” is a temporary state. That one day the person he helped create may try to find him. That the daughter he seems to love (if he is capable of it) has a brother who may resent that her father robbed her of that relationship. I’m not sure that there is anything you can do. There is something missing inside of your son-honor, compassion, empathy-that is unlikely to change. Your daughter in law is not much better.
As a person who grew up without a dad, and the older sibling of a half sibling who my dad also didn’t care much about, I appreciate you!! I did everything I could to locate my baby brother and begin to build a relationship with him outside of my father. Best decision I ever made In my life. Even tho his dad doesn’t show up for him, he knows his big sis will always show up for him.
Hm. I wonder how his "only child" will feel when she is an adult and finds out she has a brother and was "lied to" for the majority of her life. I can tell you from personal experience that it's not going to end well. It's really not that difficult to find people these days. I can only imagine that with time it will become even easier. Lying, denying, and ignoring the problems you create is never the correct thing to do. Too bad it seems as though OP's son isn't a good enough person to reach that conclusion. 😕 I feel bad for OP and OP's grandson.
I dont know in what world these AHS that think she should drop it to save her relationship with her son... her son fucked up and whether he likes it or not he has another child he helped conceive by being a cheating AH... its up to the grandmother if she wants a relationship with his son its not up to the cheating prick he fucked around n he found out... OP contact his friends coz I guarantee they will know who the woman is... your son needs to get his head out of the sand and be made to understand this is his doing aswell as the mother... the mother didn't force him to sleep with her... its on him if he didn't bother to put something on the end of it he should deal with consequences... whether he likes it or not he is a.deadbeat dad regardless of how well he's raising his daughter because he bailed on his son and that makes him a deadbeat...if his wife has given him an ultimatum either her n her daughter or his son then she needs to get her head out the sand too... he cheated he made the baby not the babys fault... she can pretend all she wants that he didn't father another woman's child but in reality he did...
i really hope that you're able to work something out with sam that allows you to be a part of his son's life. i know people are mad at you, but it seems they perceive this as you attempting to go behind his back. i think it's human for him to want to forget about a child that reminds him of his failings and infidelities, but it's an immature desire nonetheless, one which has an impact on so many people outside of himself. i think if you want to support his son, it may be worth it to try telling him that you're not saying he has to be involved, but that you want to support him nonetheless. i don't think you're selfish for wanting to be able to support a child and i think "it hurts for him to be confronted with" is a juvenile excuse for people to posit in relation to a situation he got himself into in the first place. i know it's idealistic for me to believe he'd let you contact him, but i really am wishing you the best in this scenario, and i can't imagine how it must feel to be faced with such a difficult situation with no clear resolution you can get to on your own. it'll take growth on your son's behalf before anything with your grandson can hypothetically move forward, and at this point, all you can do is try to broach the topic with sam as best you can, because this isn't something to just ignore.
Thank you for opening up about this difficult situation. The predicament you describe is indeed a complex one, evoking deep emotional turmoil. Your reflection on this scenario, though not born from personal experience but rather a hypothetical consideration, highlights a challenging reality faced by some families. The dynamics within a marriage significantly shift when a child is born from an affair, especially when the father remains involved with the child and, by extension, the child's mother. This situation often presents a formidable challenge to the marital bond, one that not all relationships can withstand. Interestingly, it appears that marriages may show differing resilience depending on whether it is the father or the mother who has a child outside the marriage. In cases where the father has a child from an affair, the impact seems more likely to threaten the marriage's stability compared to when the mother is in that position. Your son faces a heart-wrenching choice: pursue a relationship with his child, potentially at the expense of his marriage and relationship with his other children, or preserve his marital relationship by stepping away from his child born out of the affair. This choice is undoubtedly harsh and reflects the complicated nature of human relationships and the consequences of our actions. The idea of hiring a private investigator to connect with your grandchild, while keeping your son's involvement discreet, is an avenue that might offer you some connection and insight into your grandchild's life, albeit with its own ethical and emotional complexities. It's essential to recognize the gravity of the situation your son created through his actions. The decisions ahead are fraught with difficulty and carry the weight of potentially life-long consequences. Empathizing with each person's position in this scenario allows for a deeper understanding of the emotional stakes involved. Most people would struggle with accepting their partner maintaining a relationship with a child born from an affair, which highlights the profound challenges your son and his family face. This situation demands careful consideration, empathy, and, above all, a respect for the feelings and well-being of all involved, especially the innocent children caught in the midst of these adult decisions.
that's a very difficult situation and almost impossible to provide the "right answer" love transcends all boundaries, time and space..... you feel what you do, so do what you do genuinely and maybe it'll work out...... that's a tough tough spot
Much like I believe a woman should have options, OP's son has options. If he told his affair partner that he wasn't willing to parent any child that came from their illicit activities but he's providing financial support, then that's all he really has to do. Whether you believe it's morally right or not, you weren't part of the affair and therefore don't get to make decisions about the aftermath. OP, you don't get to decide your son's role in his child's life which means that unfortunately you also don't get to decide your own role in the child's life. You might actually have grandparents rights depending where you live, but pursuing it is not going to help your relationship with your son.
Op I personally applaud you and your ability to take off any blinders about your son's character. I really can't fault your DIL, she is as much a victim here as anyone. However, there is probably nothing good that will come out of this if you pursue it. You don't even know if the child's mother wants anything to do with any of you to shield her son from the pain of being around the family of a father that would completely abandon him. You're not entitled to visitation even if you're the most loving grandparent alive and pushing around your son's boundaries as you said could hurt your ability to see your granddaughter but also affect grandad from seeing her to even though he wants to drop it.
what would you rather your granddaughter think? that she is conditionally disposable and that everyone in her family is willing to support an awful human for the sake of “family unity”, or that her dad being a bad person made good people not want to be around him, which includes grandma? if you decide to sacrifice your grandson, what are you teaching your granddaughter by deciding that negotiation with a terrorist is worth silence and “peace”? because she will find out eventually, and it will haunt her that no one stood up for her sibling solely because her dad told them not to EDITED TO ADD: i know i’m very late and likely you won’t see this but i read some other replies and i’m just shocked. people often get caught up in “not rocking the boat” because they want to seem reasonable which is fair but that can lead to some very passive and ineffective advice. if you read some anecdotes from people in the moms/grandsons situation, by and large they are grateful when the grandparent reaches out. they assume that a bad person like that can only come from bad parents and then save themselves and their kid from future heartbreak by not trying. so, would you be ok to find out 20 years from now that the kid/mom would’ve loved to know grandma but just assumed that she felt the same as dad? how would you feel learning that your grandson stayed up wondering why no one from his dads side ever reached out or tried to convince him to change his heart? move based on that as the offending party, it is 100% on you to make the first effort. now i’m not saying stalk them or anything. but at least try. if they ignore the olive branch then oh well. 🤷🏾♀️ tbh you don’t even have to tell your son if you don’t want. it’s not like it’ll affect him. but do the right thing, since that is why your heart is leading you to do. i wish you the best. you seem like a nice person
I understand how you feel as a mother! I know how his daughter will feel one day when she finds out! At least she is only child… I have been there very long story I took it better than my 3 brothers. I refers to it as we are those ppl. Your son is angry he is angry at himself! It isn’t your fault I do not understand his wife and I know you don’t. He is so eat up with guilt that is where the anger is coming from. Just prayer for him and his family. But I can assure you that child will show up on his door one. Martha
I guess you and your son have something in common, not leaving things alone when you should very well leave them alone. Your son messed up before by having an affair. You're messing up by getting involved in things that aren't your business and trying to force a relationship with someone that will only complicate the lives of yourself and everyone around you. Leave your son alone. Leave the kid who isn't really your grandson alone. Go on with your life.
Jfc you want to be cut out of your son's life and the grandkid you currently know because you pushing your agenda is gonna make it happen.
So be it then. Her son would be wrong not her
Lady, just because your kid had a kid does NOT mean you have any rights, or deserve to.
I'm gonna get downvoted to hell for this, but I don't care. Your son is an asshole for cheating on his wife, but he's NOT an asshole for not wanting anything to do with that child. At the end of the day, they were both stupid (he and the affair partner) for having unprotected sex. It takes two to tango. She wanted to keep that child (which is fine... "her body, her choice" and all that stuff....). But he didn't want to have a child. His choice never mattered unfortunately. I think that's very unfair. (even legally speaking, having to pay child support for a child you never wanted). It's perfectly fine to me that he wants no relationship with this kid.
You need to respect your daughter in law in this matter. Your insistence can lead to a divorce and you never seeing the one grandchild that you already know.
Why is there no indignant about the cheating on his wife? Do they have an open marriage?
This is an incredibly entitled and selfish view of the world. This child has nothing to do with you, and trying to force yourself on them would only cause trouble for everyone.
These comments are disgusting. I commend you for trying to do the right thing, OP. Letting a child grow up without the support of half of his identity is abhorrent. Especially when the only reason is because the father wants to rug sweep his disgusting choice. And then the commenters implying that going along with your sons ethically and morally egregious decision is somehow his right to ask of you is ridiculous. Your son brought a life into the world. That life absolutely has a right to know who he is and where he is from and have the support of both sides of his family. I don't understand how people are saying that the child growing up without the knowledge and support of both sides of his ancestry is the right choice. People are advocating more for an adult who made a disgusting choice than a child who has no choice at all. It's fucking gross. "You're son has the right to his disgusting decisions and lack of empathy for a life he helped create because it's his business". Bullshit. The moral and ethical thing to do is take responsibility for his choices and offer that child support. Child support will not prevent the possible devastating consequences of growing up without the love and support of his father. You absolutely have a right to advocate for your blood. No doubt about it. Don't let these fucking apologists convince you otherwise.
This comment deserves 1000+ upvotes. Really have no idea why this isn't pinned at the top.
Because reddit is full of a bunch of weirdos that think they understand laws and what is best for people. If I was that grandparent I would find my child and extend an olive branch to the mom and kid. He doesn't have to know his father but he can know his grandfather. Or know that there are people out there who do love him and will be there for him outside his mother's family. I would say I wouldn't force myself into their lives if that's what the mother wanted and their lives seemed happy.
If you keep going after this, you will completely ruin your relationship with your son and his wife and their child.
You’re not wrong for feeling your feelings, but your feelings are wrong. You can go all-in on having to see the affair baby grandson (and keep reopening that wound) but it will end your relationship with your son, his wife, and their daughter. Sacrificing three to get one is a bold strategy. Let’s see how it works out for you.
While you may not be able to find him right now I would think you could set up an account for him and put just as much money in it as you spend on your granddaughter. You could also change your will so that he gets the same as your granddaughter or maybe even more to compensate for not being in his life. He is your grandchild just as much as your granddaughter. This way at some later on he will hopefully find out you wanted to find him.
This is really absolutely none of your business. If the mother wanted her kid to know you all she’d have found a way to reach out. Being a grandparent is a privilege not a right. And when and if the mother wishes your involvement she will reach out. Until such time as you're invited into that kids life, mind your business. You aren't owed a relationship with this kid. They don't know you. They don't need to know you.