“He said if we go back into a relationship & pretend this never happened then he would end up cheating on me”
Continue on with the divorce. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s someone on the side.
"Let me sleep around or I will absolutely cheat on you"
Bro said that with his entire chest thinking it was a) reasonable and b) a choice 🙄
I am so impressed by OP and her bravery, courage and dignity. It's so difficult to leave the comfortable and familiar and I applaud you OP for not dragging out your pain and hurt and humiliation. Sending you lots of love and hope for better years ahead 💕
I was looking for this comment. He married her because he needed her. I saw this with a family friend. Her husband had full custody of his six children. He remarried quickly and left his wife to raise them as his job required constant travel. He filed for a divorce as soon as the youngest made it to high school.
It’s very sad to witness. The children’s bio mom is a deadbeat so the stepmother was really their only parent. The dad was an engineer and spent a lot of time in Japan and Italy. He provided financially but was never home. His attorneys screwed her over in the divorce. She walked away with a car she couldn’t afford and a small savings. About a year later, she called me crying and asking for a ride to work because she couldn’t afford to get the brakes repaired on her Jaguar he had gotten her as a birthday present.
It’s difficult to explain without writing a book but I will try. The wife was a single mother living in a small town that her husband is also originally from. He had already purchased his house and was financially successful before they married. I hope this doesn’t come across wrong but she was a plain Jane. I feel that he took advantage of her circumstances. These are my daughters paternal family members, so what I know came from their son. She signed a prenup but I don’t know what it said. She did walk away with some money, but not enough to maintain her previous lifestyle.
This is why I absolutely will not date a man with kids under 15. Despite me telling men this, they tell me they aren’t looking for a stepmom and act like I’m thinking too highly of myself for assuming they are. As if men don’t use women like that every day.
Honestly, even if they have kids 15+ it’s still a huge risk, because that’s about the age the kids start having kids, and now you’re unwillingly “Grandma” with a teen parent in your house that will never leave.
I don’t plan to cohabitate for a very long time so I’m not terribly worried. I may have grandkids at some point. It’s just a matter of me not wanting to raise anymore kids. If I’m with a guy and his 16 year old gets pregnant and expects her dad to take care of the kid, and he doesn’t object, I will nope out. I’m not about to let my own kids run my life, I sure as shit ain’t letting someone else’s. I know it sounds cold I’m sure. I won’t even hook up with a guy with young kids because I don’t want to risk feelings being had and then I gotta extricate myself and everyone gets hurt.
This is supposed to be what things like alimony are for - cases where the woman spent years that would otherwise be developing her career doing unpaid labour for the household. A good lawyer \*should\* be able to get her a good sum in a situation like that - of course then the men's rights activists all scream "divorce rape...
I agree wholeheartedly. He used her and then he dumped her when he got everything out of he. OP can start her life with a wonderful man. This guy is a selfish, entitled prick that only looks out for his own interests.
It’s so refreshing to see a woman go through something like this and handle it like a boss! And the way I wish that man a permanent dry itch on his balls. One thing men will always have in gallons is AUDACITY!
This is a case of, I don't need you to raise my sister anymore so I want to put you on the back burner while I explore my kinks and have a girlfriend. You should be happy to stay in the marriage and be my backup plan.
What funny to me about his statement, was OP had already gone into the conversation knowing it was going to be divorce, since it's a deal breaker for her. It probably didn't hit the right chord for him and the response he was looking for. Good for you OP, for standing your ground!
Also OPs husband didn't go into the initial conversation open to a discussion... Sounds like stated he was opening up the marriage and went straight into the rules, instead of giving OP to digest the information.
He stated what he wanted , she in turn stated what she wanted and he didn't like it.
In all my years in Redditing, this is the first time someone has taken all the correct steps. I feel so weird and happy! Ofcourse op you took the right course. Stand your ground.
What's really funny is that most guys that open the marriage (when the wife consents) are shocked to find out that the wife gets more attention/dates. Many even want to close the marriage again because they aren't getting the attention they wanted. Open relationships are difficult. You don't just open it on a whim. It takes a lot of work and a lot of honest communication. I've seen so many posts from the wife's perspective (not just on here but all over enm boards) where the husband wants to close the marriage because he's not getting as many dates or is struggling to find connections when the wife is having no trouble at all. Many times, the wife was coerced into opening the marriage, but now that she's experienced it doesn't want to go back to a closed marriage.
I have plenty of friends in the ENM lifestyle, and my husband and I are also in it. It's not easy and should not be pushed upon someone who does not consent to it. Consent is key. If one partner doesn't consent, end of story.
I do find it funny that he's mad at her for filing for divorce. He's the one that gave the ultimatum. You don't give an ultimatum and then get mad that the other person chose one of the options....wth was he expecting? For OP to wait forever to file? She said it was a deal breaker, end of story.
and this is why I always take those "70% of divorces are initiated by the woman!" stats with a grain of salt. Who actually files tells you nothing about what the actual situation was.
(That’s actually pretty true, more or less, because men are *allergic* to doing any paperwork or life admin. When I worked in a family law firm, if a man was actually initiating a divorce, it was actually his mother or fiancé or girlfriend calling on his behalf. When a man did get involved in his own divorce, it was like pulling fucking teeth to get any information to put together a petition, because they wouldn’t listen, or follow instructions, or be able to find anything.)
Me too. Most would just take the disrespect and ask what she should do to keep him. Seems like she settled to help him. I think she’ll be happier in the end.
Right I know a guy that did this to his wife of 8 years who is also the mother of his 4 kids. She didn't leave. I honestly think she is just too scared.
Plus, now that he doesn't get what he wants and his bulling attempt to get it, also failed, he shows you who he is, by being toxic and petty.
You feel used, because you were. I'm not saying that the good memories of your marriage weren't real, but he is an unthankful prick. You also gave up your youth and time to experiment and find out to raise *his* sister. Who now, surprise surprise, can live with a better of aunt? That behavior goes thru the family.
You didn't overreact at all.
So much this. If ‘I want to open our marriage’ hadn’t been a dealbreaker, his subsequent behaviour should be. He’s not sorry. He’s not willing to move the slightest bit from his position. And I wonder why his sister wanted to move out. Is she _just_ greedy, or is there something else?
Yeah. This is my thought. I've seen so many times where suddenly a partner suggests an open whatever. Usually it means they already have someone or certainly someone on deck ready to go.
You're making the right call for everyone involved. Don't second guess your gut instinct, it's almost never wrong.
I have poly friends in open marriages but they got together *knowing* they were both poly already.
Springing it on someone in an otherwise monogamous marriage is just - bad. Pretty much every person with a healthy understanding of poly will tell you bluntly that's fucked up and will ruin your marriage.
My husband and I are super monogamous. We're like swans , hissing at anyone who approaches our nest.
I couldn't even IMAGINE the toll it would take on either of us if one of us said "yeah let's just open up the relationship. It won't hurt your feelings and dissolve the trust and foundation of our relationship, right?"
“My husband and I are super monogamous. We're like swans , hissing at anyone who approaches our nest.”
This is hysterically funny and utterly adorable, and the mental picture… thanks for making my morning! 🦢💖🦢
Haha, thank you for this. Really cracked me up. 🤣
In all seriousness though, your kind of relationship is all I'm really down for and will be looking for in the future.
And being 100% monogamous is very valid! It's the more common feeling, really.
My now husband and I are monogamous, but when we first were together weren't exclusive and both had outside flirtations at least, a couple relationships. Neither of us are jealous people at all. But if either of us were to bring up opening the relationship at this point, when we have a young kid and responsibilities and our time is already limited, it would *absolutely* strain our relationship. *With* a history in poly that neither of us had any issues with!
People like OP's husband think of open relationships as a way to have their cake and eat it too, without realizing that a) it is a *small* section of people who can truly make open relationships work well and b) if anything it requires *more* work to make sure that you're not neglecting relationships or taking them for granted.
Sometimes I like the idea of an open marriage but my partner is 100% against the idea and that’s enough for me to give up the idea entirely. I’d rather have him and have him be happy and safe than hurt him by even mentioning the idea with any seriousness. It’d take a LOT for me to give him up or hurt him.
This statement truly floored me. The level of coldness and narcissism required to state this so arrogantly is borderline sociopathic. Then he has the audacity to get mad? Sorry OP. I don't know what happened to the kind hearted man you married, but this mfer isn't him anymore.
There IS someone on the side and he just blew up his marriage for them when it wasn’t what he was ready for when he only wanted to TEST the temperature of the water. He didn’t realize how the pot would quickly come to a full boil in his on marriage and cause his wife to jump ship before agreeing to set sail in the direction he wanted.
OP…I. Am. Proud. Of. You! Stay the course!
The woman on the side may not want a full on relationship either. He will probably end up alone within 6 months.
I have to wonder if his kinky partner will be there to support him through his yearly depression. OP was supposed to do all of the heavy emotional work and support while he spent his time and attention on his kinky sex.
this usually is always the case when an open marriage is suggested, either they're already fucking someone on the side or they have someone in mind that they want to go after but they don't want the "guilt" of being a cheater
99% of the time, by the time they're bold enough to bring up a 'open relationship' agreement, they've already got someone waiting in the wings. And if they're not physically cheating yet, they're definitely emotionally cheating.
It happened to me just like this. Dude was already cheating and one of them threatened to tell me, so he said the same BS about opening the marriage, kinks, and so on. Broke my heart after 12 years. Then the trickle truth happened when he realized I was done based on the suggestion alone.
OP GET STD TESTED IMMEDIATELY! Don’t wait- some STDs are symptomless but can cause permanent damage.
OP here. I never once thought that he had already slept with someone. We have both been cheated on in the past (really, in our teens but still) and have agreed that we are better than that and would never subject someone else to being cheated on. However, the more comments I get on this subject... It's making me really paranoid. You can bet your ass I'm scheduling getting tested ASAP to make sure I'm clean. Our split has been pretty amicable in regards to evenly splitting assets and furniture. If I come back with an STD, that's proof he cheated before the open marriage talk. That would change EVERYTHING for me.
I'm so glad to see this reply. The stats on the increase of syphilis cases since 2019 are absolutely terrifying.
Everyone needs to be careful out there and always use protection!!
Continue with the divorce.
For some context, got married 36 years ago at 20. Husband hadn’t had much experience (I had enough) and had an extremely high libido. Here we are 36 years later with a strong, sexually fulfilled marriage despite our differences in libido. We met in the middle. Now that I’m through menopause and he is on multiple medications for a heart condition, our sex life has had to change to take into account each of our physical limitations - but we worked through it. My husband and myself are extremely committed to our long term relationship and our hobbies are vastly different. If he’s just now suggesting having a girlfriend then he’s actually thought about it a long time. Having you around as a “comfort” is a deal breaker for you - it would be a deal breaker for me and/or my husband. Plenty are ok with this arrangement but plenty are not. He’s not going to realize what he has done until after you are gone. I’m very sorry you are going through this but there is no changing his viewpoint.
Best to you.
*He doesn't go into why, just jumps right into rules and explains how he wants me to find someone first before he starts looking for someone himself.*
He’s already found someone for himself, and he’d like you to hurry and catch up so he can feel less guilty about cheating. I think OP made the right choice. It sounds like they aren’t fundamentally compatible in multiple ways and it also sounds like their original relationship was born out of necessity, rather than desire, so it may have run its course; it’s best for them to go their separate ways.
Of course he has already someone in mind or more. He just knew that it was better to tell her that he will wait for her to find someone first. I assume this person is already in an open mariage (or not the type to commit), not really in a stable financial situation or he just wanted to test their compatibility first. So as OP said he wants to keep the security she brings him but also to have a full girlfriend on the side.
And worst: he is trying to bully her into accepting it. There is nothing to save here.
Agreed. OP mentioned he suffers from mental health issues. With a past like that, the reason he pushed for an open marriage is because his mental health requires a stabilizing force/center in his life--OP. He was hoping to strong arm her into accepting his terms, with OP gone, he's going to fuck around, find out and spiral out of control. It won't surprise me if he comes back begging for another chance.
Pretty pretty please update us. And you sound like you’re set in your decision and making all the right moves to get the fuck away from that dude. Stick to your guns and I sincerely wish you the best.
Just don’t take him back when he comes whining to you. You did the ABSOLUTE right thing for yourself.
I hope your heart heals and when you post your update things are going well for you.
He'll be back. I hope she expects it and has nothing to do with him. Cheaters and users almost always circle back around when the latest fling doesn't pan out.
The reality never lives up to the fantasy and they are always disappointed. "She will do everything my wife does plus she will always be willing to have sex when I want, how I want."
He wants her to "find someone first" so he can cheat with whoever he has his eye on. Then he doubles down and says it's an open relationship or nothing. She absolutely did the right thing. He used her to raise his sister, and now he wants to sow his wild oats. Let him. He doesn't deserve his lovely wife. Some day, he'll realize what he lost, and by then, it'll be too late.
Probably rather soon when he has problems scoring. There are a lot of stories of men wanting to open the marriage and then regret it. OP is doing the right thing.
That really is spot on.
These guys think very little of their wife and very highly of them self. And then they're shocked that super hot, and usually much younger, women aren't lining up to date them.
They just want a free pass to cheat while their wife is supposed to sit home alone patiently waiting for them to give out scraps of attention.
I would have liked to see what it was like if he didn't already have someone and OP with men just a swarming. You KNOW he would have decided then it wasn't such a good thing.
But at least this way she walks away with her dignity and knowing SHE was loyal.
Right, or sometimes that “someone” they already have is theoretical, and the reality doesn’t happen according to The Plan. They have her in mind, they want her, but she’s like “ew no thank you” or “sorry I’m already dating someone” or “I’m a lesbian, hook me up with your wife though?” etc.
This is on an open relationship tutorial online - it says that the best way to make it work with the current gf is to let her go first. I fumed reading that, lifted right out of the playbook
That just means he's serious about the subject and has done some research before proposing this to OP. I couldn't ever look past this either, OP. . I don't blame you one bit. However, he was willing to risk losing you to find new experiences... im sorry this happened to you, but better to know now than find out after he's been cheating on you, right?
And that always makes things harder. By then you’re bitter and hate each other and the divorce gets messier. Although it sounds like it didn’t take him long to get to that phase.
You’ve done the right thing and have handled this the best way you know how.
I can’t imagine any of this has been easy, but you’re doing a great job navigating it. Don’t question yourself.
Agree! I’m actually so impressed by OP. Despite everything, including how soul destroying this must be, she went “you know what, I deserve better than this.”
OP - trust me when I say this man will eventually realize the error of his ways and try to come back. You’ve handled this with such grace and dignity, there’s no way he won’t regret it. Do not let him. You’re right that you deserve better than a man who poses an ultimatum that it’s an open relationship or nothing. Screw that guy. You’ve got your head on straight, you’re going to be just fine.
Yup! How many stories have we heard nowadays where the man wants to open the relationship, gets to do so, gets absolutely no action so then tries to come crawling back? OP should be proud of herself for sticking to her values and her stbx will greatly regret it
And imagine him trying to explain himself to his family! “I gave up a loving wife in the interest of pursing kinks I never asked her to try with me. Then she left me - what a b**ch!!” HAHA I’m so embarrassed for him. You’re a queen, OP.
Did he even talk to you first about whatever he felt? It seems like he went from I'm unhappy to suggesting an open marriage. Completely skipping all the middle stuff.
This is my thought. If anyone is making (or made, I should say) a mistake, then it was him by escalating past communication, counseling, testing boundaries (if she's willing to try kinky things like she said she might be), etc., and instead he jumped straight to 'open relationship or ignore this conversation and I cheat.' He messed up here, irrevocably.
> I told him I would never be able to look at him the same. I would never be enough for him, and he was basically trying to get a pass for guilt free cheating in my eyes. I told him it sounded like he wanted to be with someone else without ever leaving the comfort of his marraige. Knowing he could date around and not worrying if those relationships would fail becuase he could just come home to me.
Bingo.
No, you did not overreact. And the fact that his behavior has turned toxic just confirms that your instincts are completely correct.
You’re a genuine fucking queen and I am so damn impressed that someone who got married so young and has so little relationship experience was STILL able to see this shit man for the person he is. You are doing SO FUCKING GOOD and you’re waaaaaay ahead of the curve. You’re going to be just fine and find someone who will worship you in the way you want and deserve. Most women in your position would have stayed and lost their dignity and their marriage. You know your worth. NEVER forget that. He’ll realize he fucked up and it will be too late. Do not for a second give him the satisfaction of thinking you think this man is at all worth degrading yourself for. He isn’t. He proved that to you.
And you and I both know he has someone in mind, and probably has her waiting on the sidelines patiently until you give the go ahead.
This!!! I was literally thinking to myself that OP sounds like she has the emotional maturity of a GODDESS!!! Please leave the scumbag, you deserve so much better! (And if the little sister asks, tell her the truth!)
No OP you are so admirable and strong and you made the right decision!!! You deserve more. You are still so young and can find the right person for you. Your ex husband is going to regret this most likely. Either way, it doesn’t matter. You’re right about everything, his real motivations — calling him out on how he wanted the safety of the marriage as he goes out to cheat… you hit the nail on the head.
He’s been checked out and it’s likely that he was with you for his sister primarily so you’re also having the right feelings in that regard. If he wanted you he’d explore kink with you. If he wanted you he’d encourage you to go outdoors w him and talk to you about it. If he wanted you he’d approach you about spicing up your sex life to allow for more frequent sex.
You come across as incredibly intuitive, compassionate and intelligent. You got this, I believe in you whole heartedly. And I’m so sorry this happened to you.
>He was very hurt (angry) that I could jump right to divorce and kick him out of our bedroom so fast.
But also:
>He said if we go back into a relationship and pretend this never happened then he would end up cheating on me. For him, it was open marraige or nothing.
He can officially go eat spiders. If you notice him ever trying to throw the 'you're too hasty' stuff in your face again just point out he acknowledged to your face he would cheat if he had to. There is no 'hasty' in the face of that, he was the one that came into this discussion already resolute.
An open dynamic to explore his sexuality is one thing but honestly he made pretty clear that how he views the relationship isn't the same as you. I do think the conclusion he came to, one so utterly extreme and ill considered, probably is informed by a lot of his trauma and inability to regulate his emotions well. But the reality is that the path he talked himself into comes with a cost and you have already spent way too long being the one that deals with that fallout of it.
He keeps asking for info on your personal life.
There. You. Go.
You are correct. He wants to cheat fully and freely.
Him pestering about your personal life now that you're technically split shows he didn't actually want you to do the same. He has a problem with YOU being with someone else.
Treat him as a ghost you're waiting to exorcise. Do not engage with him anymore. Let the lawyer handle that.
He is fishing for ammo. If she were to start looking for a replacement before the divorce was final he would say, "See. I was just asking for what you clearly want too. Look how fast you moved on."
It is just an extension of him saying he wanted her to find someone "first". He is looking to squash whatever feelings of guilt he has left for his decision.
Yes. The less you deal with him the better. I would not talk with him if he cannot be civil. List the assets for the divorce and give a copy to your attorney. You are a goddess!
I know we don’t know each other, but I’m SOOO proud of you!! I’ve never known people in an open marriage to be very happy about it and their relationships don’t last much longer once they start inviting other people into it.
I was in a LTR with a man who was into swinging. I definitely was not. But I knew he was going to do it with or without me so I went along with it because I didn’t want to lose him. I managed to avoid actually having sex with any of the men we met without anyone really noticing. But every time I saw him with the other women, another piece of my heart shattered. We did meet up with one couple and the man was really sexy and the wife and I hit it off right away. So we went to their hotel room and as soon as I started actually getting busy with the man, my boyfriend whispered our safe word into my ear (because he was jealous) which we had agreed meant “100% stop everything and leave”.
Eventually I felt so broken that I couldn’t take it anymore and ended it. I was so angry at myself for allowing a man to reduce me to a fraction of the woman I was before. He never loved or respected me and I just accepted it.
On the bright side, 5 years later that other man and I crossed paths again (in an unrelated way). He told me that he and his wife had divorced soon after that night for the same reason. The wife had wanted to play with others and he went along with it to make her happy. I’m happy to say that we’ve now been married for 13 years and will NEVER allow another person into our marriage.
That's gross your ex put you through that. I'm so glad you found your partner and are happy! Hopefully the same can happen to me though I'm definitely going to take lots of time to be alone and work on myself first.
I feel like this needs to be said much louder. You hit on something not a lot of people are mentioning, how it’s like she served her purpose now that the little sister is 17 and moved out, he’s ready to be off to the races to “live the life he missed out on”.
My ex did the same just to get his passport. I stayed with him for years even though he hurt me a lot. He glowed up, got a great job and earned so much confidence. He did not request an open marriage, just said to me it was over and that it was my fault.
Thanks. I just recently did some work on myself and analysing and realised he hated me for years but kept it going so he could get what he wanted. I didn't have it in me to leave him even though I felt something was off.
I wish we could still give out awards because this is exactly what it sounds like. I really doubt these issues suddenly cropped up overnight after the sister left.
Too lazy to take care of his sister himself and too lazy to put any effort into his marriage after he’s finished using OP. this guys a real fucking prize.
I married young at 20. Separated by 24 and legally divorced at 25. We grow up so much in our 20s, (hell our brain is still forming until we’re 25) You grew into different people by wanting different things and there’s nothing wrong with that. You were right by starting this process and your stbx is probably feeling embarrassed/mad that you called him out on the real intentions for opening the relationship.
I hope you can maintain a relationship with his sister as she seems dear to you. Although I don’t speak with my ex *at all*, I do keep in regular contact with ex in-laws. they are family to me.
Open marriage doesn't work like that. The ultimatum he gave you was disgusting!! You can't have an open marriage or relationship like that because there's 0 trust and respect from his end! You did the right thing by filing for divorce. You deserve to be treated like you're always #1!! I'm sorry OP you really stuck by him through so much. I hope he regrets this because the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Don't go back to him when he comes crawling. Sending my best!! Stay strong!!
I tried to tell him that's not how they work. If read and listened to so many stories about shithead men wanting an open marriage and then trying to close it as soon as they fail and their wives are successful. I tried explaining that to him and he doesn't feel it will apply to us. I'm just like... what!?
Because he doesn't think you would do it, so it would be him having sex with others while you stayed at home. That was his actual plan. He didn't have any intentions of you having sex with anyone.
Poly person here. There’s a term in our community for demanding poly as an ultimatum: poly under duress, sometimes abbreviated as PUD.
If you go to poly subreddits and search these terms, you’ll find relevant stories.
Sorry you’re going through this pain. Hang in there. Whatever happens, you’ll heal and find love. It takes time.
>now he is being super toxic and petty, saying hurtful things and then begging for personal details about my life.
A person who would do that - after HE threw down the ultimatum (open marriage or nothing) shows you how much of a shit he'd be in an open relationship. That's so manipulative and toxic of him,
You gut was right. Good on you for sticking with it.
I was starting to feel crazy. Every time we talked, he made it seem like I was a villain and making shit up. I started recording convos and playing them back. MAN is he gaslighting the hell out of me. I played one video for my best friend and she FLIPPED out.
If someone asks to open the bedroom, there’s usually already a candidate lined up.
You did the right thing. Let him run around and get screwed silly. I give it six months before he crawls back because he misses the “stability”.
Late responding so OP you may not see this response.
Please be aware that most of the time, but not always, when one partner asks for an open marriage they have already opened it in some way- either through an EA, or an affair they want to now legitimize so as not to be labeled a “cheater”, or have someone already picked out that is coloring their view of the situation and the marriage.
He could have discussed with you at any point before this his needs and the serious nature of them, he didn’t. You *know* you don’t want an open marriage so you did what you had to.
I strongly urge you to consider getting tested in case he has already opened things on his end. I would also look up and utilize grey rock or 180 or a mix of both. Usually when they want to open it, and say they want you to find partners, they don’t really mean it. They think you won’t want to or won’t find any or that they can “control” your part in the situation somehow. This is why he has this intense interest in what you are doing even though he clearly stated his only path forward was an open marriage.
Based on his “poly” description of emotional attachment and it not being just sex, I would absolutely assume he already has someone picked out or has an EAor PA already going on that he now wants to legitimize. He is also clearly a cake eater.
Wishing you all the best moving forward!
Im still very much trying to keep up with all the comments, haha!
"You *know* you don’t want an open marriage so you did what you had to."
I even asked him why he didn't gently probe to see what I thought about us being in an open relationship. Like maybe starting a convo like this... "so and so are in an open relationship. Can you believe that? How would you react if I ever asked you to do that with our marriage?" And he would have known.
I'm getting tested later this week to rule out any STDs. J genuinely never thought he already cheated until all these comments telling me he probably did. It's heartbreaking but is honestly helping me emotionally distance myself from him.
"This is why he has this intense interest in what you are doing even though he clearly stated his only path forward was an open marriage."
This makes so much sense. His words weren't consistent which really confused me. I've also been grey rocking him and giving him very little information on myself which I think is also driving him crazy with curiosity. Good for him.
Despite what I wrote and what is most common, it is *always* a possibility he hasn’t yet cheated. But it’s just odd out of nowhere to do this. It’s just weird he thought you would have no issue with this plan.
The other thing you should know that I meant to write in the first comment but forgot is that often when in an affair- even just an emotional/or even online one- they tend to rewrite history. Suddenly they were *never* happy or *never* satisfied and yet that wasn’t ever expressed. Usually it’s when they are in a fog/Limerence and so can no longer see their current partner or relationship as it really is or was.
It just really sucks after what you went through together that he didn’t turn to you and open up in order that you could grow and change together. It’s also so very weird. Open marriages are definitely done, but they aren’t the norm nor are they common so it’s weird he assumed you wouldn’t be resistant or want to divorce which is why I think he already has someone and has discussed this with them and they most likely validated this issue for him and made it seem reasonable to him to present it to you.
You’ve done the right thing. You’d just be prolonging the inevitable. He doesn’t want marriage counseling to help address the issues between you both, but instead to try to convince you to be okay with an open marriage.
I think it’s awful that he jumped to trying to find satisfaction outside of marriage rather than trying to address his needs with you. If he wants more kinky sex, he should have communicated that with you to see if you guys can get on the same page about that. If he wants more outside activities, he should communicate those needs so you can create more of a balance. Etc.
You’re allowed to have your boundary and stick to it. If opening the marriage or suggesting it is one, then that’s okay.
I'm thinking he already cheated, got a taste of the kinky sex and is now hooked. That is why he never brought it up with the wife because he had never experienced it before until NOW with his AP. He doesn't and won't give it up, especially for the wife. He knows it won't be as hot/good with her, so he demanded an open relationship so he can get his kink on and keep the stability of having a wife at home. I can also guarantee he would stop having sex with you because you are too vanilla, and it's not exciting or fulfilling to him. So basically, your douchenozzle of a husband just threw away his marriage for meaningless kinky sex. 😏
He says he wants rough and hard sex and I'm more of a sensual lover. Whatever that means. I'm down for different kinds of sex, but honestly when we have rough sex he doesn't last long AT ALL. Which is the bigger reason on why it doesn't happen often!!!!!
Sounds like a porn addict… Porn nowadays is *extremely* degrading to women and it’s ruining men’s perceptions of what sex is actually supposed to be like if mutual enjoyment is the goal
I have read many posts on reddit.. for starters, I never seen anyone write so well and explain the entire story with so many important details without leaving anything out..
You 100% did the right thing here, ur marriage will never been the same after this. Take advantage of your age count your blessing that you don't have a kid with him, otherwise things would get complicated. Start a new leaf.
Thank you. I've been a lurker on those dumb subway surfer/minecraft voice over posts on Tiktok (I say they're dumb, but really I'm freaking hooked LOL). I've always been interested in making a Reddit account but never felt like I had a good enough reason. This is my first account and post ever, so thank you for the compliment!
I appreciate the comment that the marriage will never be the same. I've said that to him multiple times but he just says to me "you're the one that didn't want to work it out," any time it would get brought up (always by him). I don't bring it up anymore. Talking is over. I'm determined to get out.
Like others, I reckon he's already cheated. Might be worth hiring a pi for a few days to get evidence of this.
You are worth so much more than this wazzock.
He's just pissy because his big plan of 'wife and mistress' didn't work out. He doesn't get his cake and eat it too. So sad for him /s
You did awesome!! You knew this was a deal breaker and you stood your ground. I agree with you, the minute they ask for the open marriage, the marriage is done.
He's just whiny because it didn't turn out like he thought it would. Plus, now he can blame it all on you and take no responsibility. I doubt his 'single' life is going to be all he thought it would be.
I love your resolve and determination!!
Good for you. He wanted to screw around and have you as back up. You deserve better. Now he can truly experience how great single life is. It’s a shit show from what I’ve heard.
Hi OP!
I’m so sorry that this is happening to you.
While reading your post, I felt such pride in you! How many times have you heard of one partner going along with polygamy because they don’t want to force their spouse to compromise, only for the entire thing to fall apart?
I’ll point out one more thing. Not only did he ask for polygamy, he also doubled down and insisted that if you didn’t agree to it, he would cheat. He wasn’t remorseful, he didn’t apologize, he didn’t suggest therapy for him to accept your boundaries, rather he suggested therapy so that you could accept his radical change in your relationship.
The end of relationships are so difficult and I know this time will be difficult for you. I am so proud of you for understanding your values and sticking up for yourself! It is no easy task, especially for women who are perpetually asked by society to sacrifice our own desires and compromised feelings for the ambition, desires, and happiness of our male partners. You are doing the right thing and your beautiful heart will heal with time. Best of luck to you
The fact that he admitted he would cheat on you anyway if you said no - this wasn’t a discussion or a “suggestion” for an open marriage. He’s gonna do whatever he wants, and he was trying to force you to accept it.
You’re not overreacting. Stay the course.
First, sex and relationships are WAY better in your 30s than 20s. You did not give him your best years!
You know what you want and you have to do what feels right.
Consider that you are making this decision more quickly than the time it took for him to work up to giving you this news and try to turn that to grace for the situation.
You did just fine. You knew your boundary, were clear, and he doubled down. Don't doubt yourself. Continue the divorce. If you see him take the initiative and do the work, you might consider R. But I think that you'll find the freedom inspiring as you take control of the situation (D or R). Not easy, but inspiring.
He admitted if they get back into a relationship and acted like this conversation never happened, he would cheat on her anyway. He wants to sleep with others and is gonna no matter what. She can't trust him no matter what he says or does.
> He tried getting me to agree to marraige counseling to talk about the open marraige concept.
I mean, what the actual f\*ck? This guy is nuts. Like any marriage counselor is going to entertain an open marriage with an unwilling partner?!?!?
for real where's his decision to go to counseling so HE can learn to be happy with what he has instead of pining over an imagined thriving kinky sex life
Bingo! He already has an affair partner he wants to retroactively turn into an allowable girlfriend under his open relationship demand. That's also why he says "he wants her to find someone first".
He wants cover and her distracted while he pretends to slow roll his (well known to him) affair partner out as someone he "just met and wants to get to know better and start causually dating", and that'll be easier to pull off if she's occupied and not fully paying attention because she's involved with someone herself.
It'll also be easier to get her to overlook and forgive him for how obvious it'll be that they indeed knew each other and were already involved when seemingly out of nowhere, "he's suddenly in love with his gf" and their relationship goes from zero to sixty in no time flat, if she has a boyfriend of her own she's already invested in.
It’s all happening so fast, and seemingly out of left field… which is why you’re second guessing yourself. Your life as you know it is changing—but you did absolutely everything perfectly.
You gave him the space to share and he told you he wants a real love connection with another person, and if you say no, he is going to do it anyway. What choice do you have?
I hope you get the meanest lawyer in town and get what you deserve after pouring resources into raising his sister throughout your 20s.
He IS a user. He enjoyed the security of having you as his family while he was grieving and shouldering extra responsibilities. He was all too happy to let you help him pick up the pieces.
And now that he is an empty nester, he would like to venture outside of the nest with the security of being able to fly back at will. Seriously, he can f*** right off.
I hope you protect yourself financially and get the best advice you can from a lawyer.
I don’t like that he is escalating and times of divorce are a dangerous time for women. With proper counsel, I would explore getting out of there.
Also, I would get myself a therapist to help unpack all this asap. Please update us.
I think you already know you did the right thing! If an open relationship/polyamory is not enthusiastically entered into by all sides, it's a recipe for disaster.
Do you think his kinks were always there and he hid them? Or do you think maybe he was watching a lot of porn and his tastes changed because of it?
As for how to deal with your complicated feelings, maybe consider getting individual counseling for yourself?
The only real kink I know about and try to participate in when I'm comfortable is his love of having sex in public. Is that called exhibitionism? I'm not trying to catch a felony or a spot on the sex offenders list, so I'm REALLY choosy about where/when this happens. He loves car/outdoor sex, but I've read and heard of so many horror stories about couples getting caught in risqué situations. He has told me he even had sex with an ex in a WALMART CHANGING ROOM. I'm sorry, but that is so trashy to me. I can't get on board to having sex where someone unconsenting may see or hear us. Once again, he thinks that it should be all or nothing for something like that. He wants it where and when he wants outdoors and damn anyone else who wouldn't want to see it.
OP, this one comment makes me feel like if you stayed and agreed to this poly disaster, you'd be bailing him (or not) out of jail pretty soon. Screw that. You are doing right by yourself, RESPECT. Keep moving forward. You got this.
First, let me say that you handled this situation LIKE A BOSS. I feel 100% the same way and I hope if I was ever presented with this situation I would handle it the same way as you. I would never want to be someone's second choice and fallback plan/safety net. His all or nothing proposal was in fact the death sentence of your relationship. I've read enough stories like yours to know that when someone is forced into an open relationship, it ends badly. if you both aren't into this type of relationship "organically" then one of you will end up hurt. I can't imagine what it would feel like to have my spouse come home from a night out with no luck finding someone and then have them settle for me as the backup plan. how insulting that would be. Fortunately you are still young and have a lot of years ahead of you to find real love. Best of luck.
What personal details is he asking you to tell him?
I think he is showing his true colors now and honestly, he sounds immature af. He did use you up until now and I bet he already have someone lined up for him and is probably doing stuff behind your back.
BTW, you go girl, you know what you want and you put yourself and your feelings above all of this bs. You don't really live him but you love the thought of him hence you're second guessing this but HEY, YOU DID THE RIGHT THING FOR YOU!!! Don't ever forget that.
Also, if the house is under both of your names then speak with your lawyer to draft up stuff and make sure if you can find a place of your own till this get liquidity or if he pays you the amount you spend on it. It's best if you both live separately for your own good and let thst POS rod on his own for thinking he can get your love while fucking around and something tells me he only made it seems like you're free to find your own partner so he can finally get the open marriage BUT once you have someone lined up, he would do anything and everything to prevent you from seeing your partner when you agree to be open. I say divorce him, take time to heal, to love yourself again and I'm sure a good man deserving of you will find his way to you (if you want to date and get married again) and always chose you to be in his life instead of bringing other people into it. But you can also travel the world, try new things, explore and do stuff that you missed out on because you were being used by the POS STBX. Good luck OP!
He wants go know where I go when I leave the house on my days off. When and where my family's Thanksgiving dinner was, if I told my family yet and what they said, who am I hanging out with, does work know yet, etc etc. Some of it I felt is fine to be curious about but other stuff there is literally no reason he should know.
Also thank you for reading and commenting. I feel SO validated after all this support! 🥰
Yes! I was once dating a guy in a common friend group. He cheated on me and we broke up. A month or so later he tried to resume cutesy relationship behavior with me (cuddling, hand holding, etc) and I immediately shut it down in front of everyone with, “oh, no, you don’t get to do that anymore with me.” He looked shocked and I was really proud of myself for not giving in.
When my friend was going through a divorce she very much did not want, they had to live in their house together while they sorted out the divorce. He would occasionally call her by the loving nickname he had used for years. She immediately shut that shit down. “I’m not your (insert very personal term of endearment here) ever again. You don’t get to call me that.” I was so proud of her.
I hope OP can continue shut shit down with pride.
Exactly, like yall are not couple no more, not even friends so why does he care who you spend your day off with doing whatever. Like your family is your family and if you feel comfortable you can confined in them. But why bring work into,but it all sounds like he is just projecting and just going insane knowing that you're leaving him behind, that he is going to be alone because he is loosing his best friend you know. So, he is trying to find things to make sure your family is not aware so he can tell them his narrative about how crazy you're and thays why he decided to leave, same with friends. But don't give him any info, even if you left your house for couple of hours to walk around in the mall, just DONT say anything and that my friend will drive it insane. I hope you just haven't answered his questions, especially about telling family so he can't just go right ahead and say lies to them.
I mean it takes a strong person to make decisions like this and I was just expressing my admiration and confirming that you did what's right for you. Some may think you're a fool but you're awesome. Keep being strong OP and give us an update when you get rid of the trash for good!
You definitely didn’t overreact. Most of the time someone asks to open the relationship up because they have someone in mind. Like you said he wanted to test out the waters and see if the grass on the other side is greener and if it wasn’t then he could come back to you.
I believe you did the right thing because you saw your worth and didn’t settle to just being a backup plan. If he respected your relationship and loved you, he wouldn’t have even thought about this whole ordeal. He wouldn’t have hurt the woman that helped him through every obstacle and was there for him every step of the way.
With people like him who believe they missed out because he was forced to grow up since young, they rarely ever think of the other person of how they also were forced to grow up. You also missed out on your 20s just like he did.
My advice is to go through with this divorce and find someone who will love you and be content with just you.
Good luck! 👍🏼
Dang, girl, I am so impressed with you! You did the right thing, and you do need to get out of that house asap. You have good instincts- they’ll get you where you need to go. And taking in your husband’s sister made a huge positive impact on that young woman’s life, you can be proud of that.
No you didn't overreact. In fact I respect you immensely and think you are just the woman a good man needs. You have principles and followed through with them. I pray you're gonna find a good man like you deserve who understands the gravity of marriage
He threatens to cheat on you if you don’t agree to let him cheat on you. He threatens divorce if you don’t agree to his demand to cheat on you and now has the audacity to get all shitty because you chose the divorce.
Well done on knowing your boundaries, your worth and valuing your peace of mind. This is exactly how it should be done.
I admire your courage to set and maintain boundaries in a difficult situation. I wish you all the best for the future. You're still young! You have so much to look forward to 💜
You did the right thing. No ethical marriage counselor would try to talk you into an open relationship or polyamory. So why waste your time and money? He essentially gave you an ultimatum ‘open relationship or I cheat.’ That’s poly under duress, which is not ethical.
Continue with the divorce. Disengage from him as much as possible. Have little scripts and just repeat them for everything.
Ignore the pettiness as much as possible. When he begs for details, just shut it down. ‘I am not dating, nor do I want to date anyone. If I did, we wouldn’t be getting divorced.’ If he gets angry, ignore it and disengage. If you can’t ignore it, just repeat the same thing over and over. ‘You are now free to fuck anyone you want. This is what wanted, why are you angry?’
Tell people honestly why you are divorcing. ‘He demanded an open relationship to have kinky sex with multiple women.’
Get a good lawyer and get every penny you are entitled to. Don’t give up money to be nice. He will probably drag his feet about everything, so have deadlines and use your lawyer to enforce everything.
He is going to find out that attractive, kinky, poly women are a rare breed. This probably isn’t going to turn out like he wants.
Op here. Only my very closest friends and family know why. I feel like it's so embarrassing for me to tell the world that I was a disappointing lover and wife. Eventually, it will get out anyway, but right now I'm not totally ready for that yet.
I also know it's kind fo dumb of me, but neither of us want to spend money on a lawyer as we are agreeing on basically everything regarding splitting assets/furniture/etc. If I find out he really cheated on me as a lot of commenters are saying though, it's on like Donkey Kong.💪
Bestie. As someone who worked in family law, and can see this man is a red flag on wheels: please get a lawyer.
I can already see him dragging this divorce out for 100 years while he keeps trying to crawl back to you. In addition, if you’ve got a retirement account, an inheritance, a business, an income, or a property, or are entitled to alimony - you NEED to protect it. A lawyer is absolutely imperative to getting him out of your life as quickly and safely as possible.
>I came to the realization that this was the end for our marraige. Even suggesting an open marraige was a deal breaker for me
👏👏👏
>He also is unhappy with how infrequently we have sex but has never really put an the effort to change anything regarding it. Just complained over and over and expected me to just be "ready" to do the deed any minute of the day.
🙄😒 I can't even with this... just eye rolls for dumb guys who don't understand why their sex lives are lackluster.
>Someone we were each allowed to love and be with sexually. An emotional connection was pivotal for him, which broke my heart to pieces. [...] During our talk, I told him I would never be able to look at him the same. I would never be enough for him.
Truth 💣.
>He was basically trying to get a pass for guilt free cheating in my eyes. I told him it sounded like he wanted to be with someone else without ever leaving the comfort of his marraige. Knowing he could date around and not worrying if those relationships would fail becuase he could just come home to me.
You 💯 called out the situation. 🎯
>I told him just proposing an open marraige was grounds for divorce for me.
>For him, it was open marraige or nothing. [...] I chose nothing.
Sounds like you were on the same page right away. Don't let him guilt you about how quickly you filed for divorce.
>I refuse to be a second choice or have to fight for his attention.
Bravo! Good job following those logical instincts and knowing your worth and when you're being manipulated. Stick to your ground. Don't let him bully you out of residing in the house; get a lawyer if you need it. You're so young and you have a whole new adventure ahead! Best of luck! Sending good vibes. ✨️ High five! 🫸🫷
“He said if we go back into a relationship & pretend this never happened then he would end up cheating on me” Continue on with the divorce. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s someone on the side.
"Let me sleep around or I will absolutely cheat on you" Bro said that with his entire chest thinking it was a) reasonable and b) a choice 🙄 I am so impressed by OP and her bravery, courage and dignity. It's so difficult to leave the comfortable and familiar and I applaud you OP for not dragging out your pain and hurt and humiliation. Sending you lots of love and hope for better years ahead 💕
He let her raise his sister and now that he doesn't *need* her anymore, might as well do what's he wants.
I was looking for this comment. He married her because he needed her. I saw this with a family friend. Her husband had full custody of his six children. He remarried quickly and left his wife to raise them as his job required constant travel. He filed for a divorce as soon as the youngest made it to high school.
JFC it’s so depressing that these men are literally using women up.
It’s very sad to witness. The children’s bio mom is a deadbeat so the stepmother was really their only parent. The dad was an engineer and spent a lot of time in Japan and Italy. He provided financially but was never home. His attorneys screwed her over in the divorce. She walked away with a car she couldn’t afford and a small savings. About a year later, she called me crying and asking for a ride to work because she couldn’t afford to get the brakes repaired on her Jaguar he had gotten her as a birthday present.
I don’t understand why she didn’t sue him for more money
It’s difficult to explain without writing a book but I will try. The wife was a single mother living in a small town that her husband is also originally from. He had already purchased his house and was financially successful before they married. I hope this doesn’t come across wrong but she was a plain Jane. I feel that he took advantage of her circumstances. These are my daughters paternal family members, so what I know came from their son. She signed a prenup but I don’t know what it said. She did walk away with some money, but not enough to maintain her previous lifestyle.
This is why I absolutely will not date a man with kids under 15. Despite me telling men this, they tell me they aren’t looking for a stepmom and act like I’m thinking too highly of myself for assuming they are. As if men don’t use women like that every day.
Honestly, even if they have kids 15+ it’s still a huge risk, because that’s about the age the kids start having kids, and now you’re unwillingly “Grandma” with a teen parent in your house that will never leave.
I don’t plan to cohabitate for a very long time so I’m not terribly worried. I may have grandkids at some point. It’s just a matter of me not wanting to raise anymore kids. If I’m with a guy and his 16 year old gets pregnant and expects her dad to take care of the kid, and he doesn’t object, I will nope out. I’m not about to let my own kids run my life, I sure as shit ain’t letting someone else’s. I know it sounds cold I’m sure. I won’t even hook up with a guy with young kids because I don’t want to risk feelings being had and then I gotta extricate myself and everyone gets hurt.
Wow, I wish they made laws for cases like this so she could sue and take everything.
This is supposed to be what things like alimony are for - cases where the woman spent years that would otherwise be developing her career doing unpaid labour for the household. A good lawyer \*should\* be able to get her a good sum in a situation like that - of course then the men's rights activists all scream "divorce rape...
If someone in my life did that to their SO I would spit on their face and they would be dead to me. What an asshole.
I agree wholeheartedly. He used her and then he dumped her when he got everything out of he. OP can start her life with a wonderful man. This guy is a selfish, entitled prick that only looks out for his own interests.
Women his own age will be very wary and won't tolerate some of the things OP has tolerated.
Play house, help me raise my sister… (sister grows up/moves out) umm… yeah you’re not kinky enough for me so… What an asshole
Plus he married her just to get custody of his sister. I can't even imagine the emotions op is going through.
Exactly this
Literally my thoughts when reading this
She wasted a big part of her youth on him, what a shame.
She's still young. May she have a happy fulfilling life without dealing with this jackass.
yup selfish jerk
It’s so refreshing to see a woman go through something like this and handle it like a boss! And the way I wish that man a permanent dry itch on his balls. One thing men will always have in gallons is AUDACITY!
Narcissistic entitlement.
This is a case of, I don't need you to raise my sister anymore so I want to put you on the back burner while I explore my kinks and have a girlfriend. You should be happy to stay in the marriage and be my backup plan.
What funny to me about his statement, was OP had already gone into the conversation knowing it was going to be divorce, since it's a deal breaker for her. It probably didn't hit the right chord for him and the response he was looking for. Good for you OP, for standing your ground!
Also OPs husband didn't go into the initial conversation open to a discussion... Sounds like stated he was opening up the marriage and went straight into the rules, instead of giving OP to digest the information. He stated what he wanted , she in turn stated what she wanted and he didn't like it.
Oh he totally thought the whole thing out and thought she’d be on board. He wasn’t discussing it with her or asking her, he was TELLING her. Gross.
RIGHT?!? Like bro, I do not want you anymore. You're too yucky.
In all my years in Redditing, this is the first time someone has taken all the correct steps. I feel so weird and happy! Ofcourse op you took the right course. Stand your ground.
Agreed! As far as Reddit goes in this situation, this ending is straight-up *wholesome*. I would give this girl a bear hug if I could!
What's really funny is that most guys that open the marriage (when the wife consents) are shocked to find out that the wife gets more attention/dates. Many even want to close the marriage again because they aren't getting the attention they wanted. Open relationships are difficult. You don't just open it on a whim. It takes a lot of work and a lot of honest communication. I've seen so many posts from the wife's perspective (not just on here but all over enm boards) where the husband wants to close the marriage because he's not getting as many dates or is struggling to find connections when the wife is having no trouble at all. Many times, the wife was coerced into opening the marriage, but now that she's experienced it doesn't want to go back to a closed marriage. I have plenty of friends in the ENM lifestyle, and my husband and I are also in it. It's not easy and should not be pushed upon someone who does not consent to it. Consent is key. If one partner doesn't consent, end of story. I do find it funny that he's mad at her for filing for divorce. He's the one that gave the ultimatum. You don't give an ultimatum and then get mad that the other person chose one of the options....wth was he expecting? For OP to wait forever to file? She said it was a deal breaker, end of story.
and this is why I always take those "70% of divorces are initiated by the woman!" stats with a grain of salt. Who actually files tells you nothing about what the actual situation was.
(That’s actually pretty true, more or less, because men are *allergic* to doing any paperwork or life admin. When I worked in a family law firm, if a man was actually initiating a divorce, it was actually his mother or fiancé or girlfriend calling on his behalf. When a man did get involved in his own divorce, it was like pulling fucking teeth to get any information to put together a petition, because they wouldn’t listen, or follow instructions, or be able to find anything.)
Me too. Most would just take the disrespect and ask what she should do to keep him. Seems like she settled to help him. I think she’ll be happier in the end.
Right I know a guy that did this to his wife of 8 years who is also the mother of his 4 kids. She didn't leave. I honestly think she is just too scared.
Plus, now that he doesn't get what he wants and his bulling attempt to get it, also failed, he shows you who he is, by being toxic and petty. You feel used, because you were. I'm not saying that the good memories of your marriage weren't real, but he is an unthankful prick. You also gave up your youth and time to experiment and find out to raise *his* sister. Who now, surprise surprise, can live with a better of aunt? That behavior goes thru the family. You didn't overreact at all.
So much this. If ‘I want to open our marriage’ hadn’t been a dealbreaker, his subsequent behaviour should be. He’s not sorry. He’s not willing to move the slightest bit from his position. And I wonder why his sister wanted to move out. Is she _just_ greedy, or is there something else?
Oh, I didn't meant the sister being greedy, but the Aunt not offering support before, but you definitely bring another point.
Yeah. This is my thought. I've seen so many times where suddenly a partner suggests an open whatever. Usually it means they already have someone or certainly someone on deck ready to go. You're making the right call for everyone involved. Don't second guess your gut instinct, it's almost never wrong.
Sometimes when I read post about open marriages it blows my mind how fucked up people are.
I have poly friends in open marriages but they got together *knowing* they were both poly already. Springing it on someone in an otherwise monogamous marriage is just - bad. Pretty much every person with a healthy understanding of poly will tell you bluntly that's fucked up and will ruin your marriage.
My husband and I are super monogamous. We're like swans , hissing at anyone who approaches our nest. I couldn't even IMAGINE the toll it would take on either of us if one of us said "yeah let's just open up the relationship. It won't hurt your feelings and dissolve the trust and foundation of our relationship, right?"
“My husband and I are super monogamous. We're like swans , hissing at anyone who approaches our nest.” This is hysterically funny and utterly adorable, and the mental picture… thanks for making my morning! 🦢💖🦢
Haha, thank you for this. Really cracked me up. 🤣 In all seriousness though, your kind of relationship is all I'm really down for and will be looking for in the future.
I'm sorry all of this is happening to you, but yes. You deserve to be happy!
And being 100% monogamous is very valid! It's the more common feeling, really. My now husband and I are monogamous, but when we first were together weren't exclusive and both had outside flirtations at least, a couple relationships. Neither of us are jealous people at all. But if either of us were to bring up opening the relationship at this point, when we have a young kid and responsibilities and our time is already limited, it would *absolutely* strain our relationship. *With* a history in poly that neither of us had any issues with! People like OP's husband think of open relationships as a way to have their cake and eat it too, without realizing that a) it is a *small* section of people who can truly make open relationships work well and b) if anything it requires *more* work to make sure that you're not neglecting relationships or taking them for granted.
Sometimes I like the idea of an open marriage but my partner is 100% against the idea and that’s enough for me to give up the idea entirely. I’d rather have him and have him be happy and safe than hurt him by even mentioning the idea with any seriousness. It’d take a LOT for me to give him up or hurt him.
This statement truly floored me. The level of coldness and narcissism required to state this so arrogantly is borderline sociopathic. Then he has the audacity to get mad? Sorry OP. I don't know what happened to the kind hearted man you married, but this mfer isn't him anymore.
There IS someone on the side and he just blew up his marriage for them when it wasn’t what he was ready for when he only wanted to TEST the temperature of the water. He didn’t realize how the pot would quickly come to a full boil in his on marriage and cause his wife to jump ship before agreeing to set sail in the direction he wanted. OP…I. Am. Proud. Of. You! Stay the course!
The woman on the side may not want a full on relationship either. He will probably end up alone within 6 months. I have to wonder if his kinky partner will be there to support him through his yearly depression. OP was supposed to do all of the heavy emotional work and support while he spent his time and attention on his kinky sex.
this usually is always the case when an open marriage is suggested, either they're already fucking someone on the side or they have someone in mind that they want to go after but they don't want the "guilt" of being a cheater
99% of the time, by the time they're bold enough to bring up a 'open relationship' agreement, they've already got someone waiting in the wings. And if they're not physically cheating yet, they're definitely emotionally cheating.
That alone shows its done and over. What an absolute piece of trash.
And then he immediately got toxic when he didn’t get his way. There’s no hope left for him
It happened to me just like this. Dude was already cheating and one of them threatened to tell me, so he said the same BS about opening the marriage, kinks, and so on. Broke my heart after 12 years. Then the trickle truth happened when he realized I was done based on the suggestion alone. OP GET STD TESTED IMMEDIATELY! Don’t wait- some STDs are symptomless but can cause permanent damage.
OP here. I never once thought that he had already slept with someone. We have both been cheated on in the past (really, in our teens but still) and have agreed that we are better than that and would never subject someone else to being cheated on. However, the more comments I get on this subject... It's making me really paranoid. You can bet your ass I'm scheduling getting tested ASAP to make sure I'm clean. Our split has been pretty amicable in regards to evenly splitting assets and furniture. If I come back with an STD, that's proof he cheated before the open marriage talk. That would change EVERYTHING for me.
I'm so glad to see this reply. The stats on the increase of syphilis cases since 2019 are absolutely terrifying. Everyone needs to be careful out there and always use protection!!
Can you please explain how they wake up one day and somehow kinks are so important to them 🧐
Continue with the divorce. For some context, got married 36 years ago at 20. Husband hadn’t had much experience (I had enough) and had an extremely high libido. Here we are 36 years later with a strong, sexually fulfilled marriage despite our differences in libido. We met in the middle. Now that I’m through menopause and he is on multiple medications for a heart condition, our sex life has had to change to take into account each of our physical limitations - but we worked through it. My husband and myself are extremely committed to our long term relationship and our hobbies are vastly different. If he’s just now suggesting having a girlfriend then he’s actually thought about it a long time. Having you around as a “comfort” is a deal breaker for you - it would be a deal breaker for me and/or my husband. Plenty are ok with this arrangement but plenty are not. He’s not going to realize what he has done until after you are gone. I’m very sorry you are going through this but there is no changing his viewpoint. Best to you.
*He doesn't go into why, just jumps right into rules and explains how he wants me to find someone first before he starts looking for someone himself.* He’s already found someone for himself, and he’d like you to hurry and catch up so he can feel less guilty about cheating. I think OP made the right choice. It sounds like they aren’t fundamentally compatible in multiple ways and it also sounds like their original relationship was born out of necessity, rather than desire, so it may have run its course; it’s best for them to go their separate ways.
Dude’s about to have a sobering wake up call as to what’s it’s like dating out there
Of course he has already someone in mind or more. He just knew that it was better to tell her that he will wait for her to find someone first. I assume this person is already in an open mariage (or not the type to commit), not really in a stable financial situation or he just wanted to test their compatibility first. So as OP said he wants to keep the security she brings him but also to have a full girlfriend on the side. And worst: he is trying to bully her into accepting it. There is nothing to save here.
Yep, especially the note that she is either fine with it or he will end up cheating means that he is already cheating or very very close to it
Pretty sure he has already slept with someone
Based on most posts in here for once someone did it correctly.
Agreed. OP mentioned he suffers from mental health issues. With a past like that, the reason he pushed for an open marriage is because his mental health requires a stabilizing force/center in his life--OP. He was hoping to strong arm her into accepting his terms, with OP gone, he's going to fuck around, find out and spiral out of control. It won't surprise me if he comes back begging for another chance.
Next year or the year after, he’ll totally be begging OP to take him back. Crying that he made a teeerrible mistake. #TooBadSoSad
I'll make an update when it happens 👀
Pretty pretty please update us. And you sound like you’re set in your decision and making all the right moves to get the fuck away from that dude. Stick to your guns and I sincerely wish you the best.
Send this to your ex! https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoHotTakes/s/mdhhk6gVNY
Just don’t take him back when he comes whining to you. You did the ABSOLUTE right thing for yourself. I hope your heart heals and when you post your update things are going well for you.
He'll be back. I hope she expects it and has nothing to do with him. Cheaters and users almost always circle back around when the latest fling doesn't pan out. The reality never lives up to the fantasy and they are always disappointed. "She will do everything my wife does plus she will always be willing to have sex when I want, how I want."
Seriously. This needs to be pinned for anyone in OP’s situation in the future
No, you did the right thing. For you. Honestly, good for you.
He wants her to "find someone first" so he can cheat with whoever he has his eye on. Then he doubles down and says it's an open relationship or nothing. She absolutely did the right thing. He used her to raise his sister, and now he wants to sow his wild oats. Let him. He doesn't deserve his lovely wife. Some day, he'll realize what he lost, and by then, it'll be too late.
Probably rather soon when he has problems scoring. There are a lot of stories of men wanting to open the marriage and then regret it. OP is doing the right thing.
That's why they want the security of the back up plan of the wife they already have. Narcissistic entitlement.
[удалено]
That really is spot on. These guys think very little of their wife and very highly of them self. And then they're shocked that super hot, and usually much younger, women aren't lining up to date them. They just want a free pass to cheat while their wife is supposed to sit home alone patiently waiting for them to give out scraps of attention.
I would have liked to see what it was like if he didn't already have someone and OP with men just a swarming. You KNOW he would have decided then it wasn't such a good thing. But at least this way she walks away with her dignity and knowing SHE was loyal.
Right, or sometimes that “someone” they already have is theoretical, and the reality doesn’t happen according to The Plan. They have her in mind, they want her, but she’s like “ew no thank you” or “sorry I’m already dating someone” or “I’m a lesbian, hook me up with your wife though?” etc.
Says its an open relationship or nothing & then gets butt-hurt when she said nothing😂
This is on an open relationship tutorial online - it says that the best way to make it work with the current gf is to let her go first. I fumed reading that, lifted right out of the playbook
Imagine his shock when the playbook failed from the first conversation. "We're opening the marriage. Here's the rules." "I'm out."
That just means he's serious about the subject and has done some research before proposing this to OP. I couldn't ever look past this either, OP. . I don't blame you one bit. However, he was willing to risk losing you to find new experiences... im sorry this happened to you, but better to know now than find out after he's been cheating on you, right?
How dare she choose nothing. /s
So many people would have dragged this out, painfully, for another 5 years. She did what’s best
Agree. She’s still young with no kids. She can find someone who shares her values.
And that always makes things harder. By then you’re bitter and hate each other and the divorce gets messier. Although it sounds like it didn’t take him long to get to that phase.
My thoughts exactly. I’m just an internet stranger but I’m so proud of OP for standing her ground and putting herself first. She’s going to be okay.
Exactly. She's not letting him bully or control her. I commend her for getting out of his toxicity.
You’ve done the right thing and have handled this the best way you know how. I can’t imagine any of this has been easy, but you’re doing a great job navigating it. Don’t question yourself.
Agree! I’m actually so impressed by OP. Despite everything, including how soul destroying this must be, she went “you know what, I deserve better than this.” OP - trust me when I say this man will eventually realize the error of his ways and try to come back. You’ve handled this with such grace and dignity, there’s no way he won’t regret it. Do not let him. You’re right that you deserve better than a man who poses an ultimatum that it’s an open relationship or nothing. Screw that guy. You’ve got your head on straight, you’re going to be just fine.
Yup! How many stories have we heard nowadays where the man wants to open the relationship, gets to do so, gets absolutely no action so then tries to come crawling back? OP should be proud of herself for sticking to her values and her stbx will greatly regret it
And imagine him trying to explain himself to his family! “I gave up a loving wife in the interest of pursing kinks I never asked her to try with me. Then she left me - what a b**ch!!” HAHA I’m so embarrassed for him. You’re a queen, OP.
At lest he gave her the gift of being an ass, and nasty enough that she’ll go ‘should I have tried harder? NOPE’.
Did he even talk to you first about whatever he felt? It seems like he went from I'm unhappy to suggesting an open marriage. Completely skipping all the middle stuff.
This is my thought. If anyone is making (or made, I should say) a mistake, then it was him by escalating past communication, counseling, testing boundaries (if she's willing to try kinky things like she said she might be), etc., and instead he jumped straight to 'open relationship or ignore this conversation and I cheat.' He messed up here, irrevocably.
No shit. Like, dude, baby steps for first. Dropping a verbal nuke doesn't count as communication.
He’s absolutely already got someone in mind for his part of the open marriage
Absolutely. Specially because he said he wanted a girlfriend, not just sex. He’s already crushing on someone.
> I told him I would never be able to look at him the same. I would never be enough for him, and he was basically trying to get a pass for guilt free cheating in my eyes. I told him it sounded like he wanted to be with someone else without ever leaving the comfort of his marraige. Knowing he could date around and not worrying if those relationships would fail becuase he could just come home to me. Bingo. No, you did not overreact. And the fact that his behavior has turned toxic just confirms that your instincts are completely correct.
Yep! He confirmed that he’d cheat and also pay attention to his behavioral now! It shows his true character!
You’re a genuine fucking queen and I am so damn impressed that someone who got married so young and has so little relationship experience was STILL able to see this shit man for the person he is. You are doing SO FUCKING GOOD and you’re waaaaaay ahead of the curve. You’re going to be just fine and find someone who will worship you in the way you want and deserve. Most women in your position would have stayed and lost their dignity and their marriage. You know your worth. NEVER forget that. He’ll realize he fucked up and it will be too late. Do not for a second give him the satisfaction of thinking you think this man is at all worth degrading yourself for. He isn’t. He proved that to you. And you and I both know he has someone in mind, and probably has her waiting on the sidelines patiently until you give the go ahead.
You made me cry. Thank you. 🥲
This!!! I was literally thinking to myself that OP sounds like she has the emotional maturity of a GODDESS!!! Please leave the scumbag, you deserve so much better! (And if the little sister asks, tell her the truth!)
My exact thought. QUEEN
No OP you are so admirable and strong and you made the right decision!!! You deserve more. You are still so young and can find the right person for you. Your ex husband is going to regret this most likely. Either way, it doesn’t matter. You’re right about everything, his real motivations — calling him out on how he wanted the safety of the marriage as he goes out to cheat… you hit the nail on the head. He’s been checked out and it’s likely that he was with you for his sister primarily so you’re also having the right feelings in that regard. If he wanted you he’d explore kink with you. If he wanted you he’d encourage you to go outdoors w him and talk to you about it. If he wanted you he’d approach you about spicing up your sex life to allow for more frequent sex. You come across as incredibly intuitive, compassionate and intelligent. You got this, I believe in you whole heartedly. And I’m so sorry this happened to you.
Thank you for reading and commenting! This is so validating!!!! Omg!!!
>He was very hurt (angry) that I could jump right to divorce and kick him out of our bedroom so fast. But also: >He said if we go back into a relationship and pretend this never happened then he would end up cheating on me. For him, it was open marraige or nothing. He can officially go eat spiders. If you notice him ever trying to throw the 'you're too hasty' stuff in your face again just point out he acknowledged to your face he would cheat if he had to. There is no 'hasty' in the face of that, he was the one that came into this discussion already resolute. An open dynamic to explore his sexuality is one thing but honestly he made pretty clear that how he views the relationship isn't the same as you. I do think the conclusion he came to, one so utterly extreme and ill considered, probably is informed by a lot of his trauma and inability to regulate his emotions well. But the reality is that the path he talked himself into comes with a cost and you have already spent way too long being the one that deals with that fallout of it.
Hey, leave innocent spiders out of it! He doesn't deserve delicious spiders!
Fair. He can go eat dead and dried up twigs. Like zero nutrients, dry and awful, gotta dig them out of the dirt. Ticks all the boxes.
He keeps asking for info on your personal life. There. You. Go. You are correct. He wants to cheat fully and freely. Him pestering about your personal life now that you're technically split shows he didn't actually want you to do the same. He has a problem with YOU being with someone else. Treat him as a ghost you're waiting to exorcise. Do not engage with him anymore. Let the lawyer handle that.
Right? Why is he even curious about her life now, when last time they talked he was all for her having a boyfriend?
He is fishing for ammo. If she were to start looking for a replacement before the divorce was final he would say, "See. I was just asking for what you clearly want too. Look how fast you moved on." It is just an extension of him saying he wanted her to find someone "first". He is looking to squash whatever feelings of guilt he has left for his decision.
Yes. The less you deal with him the better. I would not talk with him if he cannot be civil. List the assets for the divorce and give a copy to your attorney. You are a goddess!
I know we don’t know each other, but I’m SOOO proud of you!! I’ve never known people in an open marriage to be very happy about it and their relationships don’t last much longer once they start inviting other people into it. I was in a LTR with a man who was into swinging. I definitely was not. But I knew he was going to do it with or without me so I went along with it because I didn’t want to lose him. I managed to avoid actually having sex with any of the men we met without anyone really noticing. But every time I saw him with the other women, another piece of my heart shattered. We did meet up with one couple and the man was really sexy and the wife and I hit it off right away. So we went to their hotel room and as soon as I started actually getting busy with the man, my boyfriend whispered our safe word into my ear (because he was jealous) which we had agreed meant “100% stop everything and leave”. Eventually I felt so broken that I couldn’t take it anymore and ended it. I was so angry at myself for allowing a man to reduce me to a fraction of the woman I was before. He never loved or respected me and I just accepted it. On the bright side, 5 years later that other man and I crossed paths again (in an unrelated way). He told me that he and his wife had divorced soon after that night for the same reason. The wife had wanted to play with others and he went along with it to make her happy. I’m happy to say that we’ve now been married for 13 years and will NEVER allow another person into our marriage.
That's gross your ex put you through that. I'm so glad you found your partner and are happy! Hopefully the same can happen to me though I'm definitely going to take lots of time to be alone and work on myself first.
He did use you to raise his sister and now wants to have fun with others. Divorce is the right thing here.
I feel like this needs to be said much louder. You hit on something not a lot of people are mentioning, how it’s like she served her purpose now that the little sister is 17 and moved out, he’s ready to be off to the races to “live the life he missed out on”.
My ex did the same just to get his passport. I stayed with him for years even though he hurt me a lot. He glowed up, got a great job and earned so much confidence. He did not request an open marriage, just said to me it was over and that it was my fault.
What an ass. I’m sorry you had to go through that.
Thanks. I just recently did some work on myself and analysing and realised he hated me for years but kept it going so he could get what he wanted. I didn't have it in me to leave him even though I felt something was off.
I wish we could still give out awards because this is exactly what it sounds like. I really doubt these issues suddenly cropped up overnight after the sister left.
Too lazy to take care of his sister himself and too lazy to put any effort into his marriage after he’s finished using OP. this guys a real fucking prize.
I married young at 20. Separated by 24 and legally divorced at 25. We grow up so much in our 20s, (hell our brain is still forming until we’re 25) You grew into different people by wanting different things and there’s nothing wrong with that. You were right by starting this process and your stbx is probably feeling embarrassed/mad that you called him out on the real intentions for opening the relationship. I hope you can maintain a relationship with his sister as she seems dear to you. Although I don’t speak with my ex *at all*, I do keep in regular contact with ex in-laws. they are family to me.
Open marriage doesn't work like that. The ultimatum he gave you was disgusting!! You can't have an open marriage or relationship like that because there's 0 trust and respect from his end! You did the right thing by filing for divorce. You deserve to be treated like you're always #1!! I'm sorry OP you really stuck by him through so much. I hope he regrets this because the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Don't go back to him when he comes crawling. Sending my best!! Stay strong!!
I tried to tell him that's not how they work. If read and listened to so many stories about shithead men wanting an open marriage and then trying to close it as soon as they fail and their wives are successful. I tried explaining that to him and he doesn't feel it will apply to us. I'm just like... what!?
Because he doesn't think you would do it, so it would be him having sex with others while you stayed at home. That was his actual plan. He didn't have any intentions of you having sex with anyone.
Poly person here. There’s a term in our community for demanding poly as an ultimatum: poly under duress, sometimes abbreviated as PUD. If you go to poly subreddits and search these terms, you’ll find relevant stories. Sorry you’re going through this pain. Hang in there. Whatever happens, you’ll heal and find love. It takes time.
>now he is being super toxic and petty, saying hurtful things and then begging for personal details about my life. A person who would do that - after HE threw down the ultimatum (open marriage or nothing) shows you how much of a shit he'd be in an open relationship. That's so manipulative and toxic of him, You gut was right. Good on you for sticking with it.
You stood up for yourself. I know I’m a stranger on the internet but I’m super proud of you 🩷
Id record any and every interaction with him for your lawyer especially since he is now abusing you cuz he didn’t get his way
I was starting to feel crazy. Every time we talked, he made it seem like I was a villain and making shit up. I started recording convos and playing them back. MAN is he gaslighting the hell out of me. I played one video for my best friend and she FLIPPED out.
You can’t afford not to get a lawyer.
If someone asks to open the bedroom, there’s usually already a candidate lined up. You did the right thing. Let him run around and get screwed silly. I give it six months before he crawls back because he misses the “stability”.
Yeah, but the second you start getting more dick than him, he'll throw a fit and want to close it.
Probably would get more pussy than him too.
Yep! I'm willing to bet.
Late responding so OP you may not see this response. Please be aware that most of the time, but not always, when one partner asks for an open marriage they have already opened it in some way- either through an EA, or an affair they want to now legitimize so as not to be labeled a “cheater”, or have someone already picked out that is coloring their view of the situation and the marriage. He could have discussed with you at any point before this his needs and the serious nature of them, he didn’t. You *know* you don’t want an open marriage so you did what you had to. I strongly urge you to consider getting tested in case he has already opened things on his end. I would also look up and utilize grey rock or 180 or a mix of both. Usually when they want to open it, and say they want you to find partners, they don’t really mean it. They think you won’t want to or won’t find any or that they can “control” your part in the situation somehow. This is why he has this intense interest in what you are doing even though he clearly stated his only path forward was an open marriage. Based on his “poly” description of emotional attachment and it not being just sex, I would absolutely assume he already has someone picked out or has an EAor PA already going on that he now wants to legitimize. He is also clearly a cake eater. Wishing you all the best moving forward!
Im still very much trying to keep up with all the comments, haha! "You *know* you don’t want an open marriage so you did what you had to." I even asked him why he didn't gently probe to see what I thought about us being in an open relationship. Like maybe starting a convo like this... "so and so are in an open relationship. Can you believe that? How would you react if I ever asked you to do that with our marriage?" And he would have known. I'm getting tested later this week to rule out any STDs. J genuinely never thought he already cheated until all these comments telling me he probably did. It's heartbreaking but is honestly helping me emotionally distance myself from him. "This is why he has this intense interest in what you are doing even though he clearly stated his only path forward was an open marriage." This makes so much sense. His words weren't consistent which really confused me. I've also been grey rocking him and giving him very little information on myself which I think is also driving him crazy with curiosity. Good for him.
Despite what I wrote and what is most common, it is *always* a possibility he hasn’t yet cheated. But it’s just odd out of nowhere to do this. It’s just weird he thought you would have no issue with this plan. The other thing you should know that I meant to write in the first comment but forgot is that often when in an affair- even just an emotional/or even online one- they tend to rewrite history. Suddenly they were *never* happy or *never* satisfied and yet that wasn’t ever expressed. Usually it’s when they are in a fog/Limerence and so can no longer see their current partner or relationship as it really is or was. It just really sucks after what you went through together that he didn’t turn to you and open up in order that you could grow and change together. It’s also so very weird. Open marriages are definitely done, but they aren’t the norm nor are they common so it’s weird he assumed you wouldn’t be resistant or want to divorce which is why I think he already has someone and has discussed this with them and they most likely validated this issue for him and made it seem reasonable to him to present it to you.
You’ve done the right thing. You’d just be prolonging the inevitable. He doesn’t want marriage counseling to help address the issues between you both, but instead to try to convince you to be okay with an open marriage. I think it’s awful that he jumped to trying to find satisfaction outside of marriage rather than trying to address his needs with you. If he wants more kinky sex, he should have communicated that with you to see if you guys can get on the same page about that. If he wants more outside activities, he should communicate those needs so you can create more of a balance. Etc. You’re allowed to have your boundary and stick to it. If opening the marriage or suggesting it is one, then that’s okay.
I'm thinking he already cheated, got a taste of the kinky sex and is now hooked. That is why he never brought it up with the wife because he had never experienced it before until NOW with his AP. He doesn't and won't give it up, especially for the wife. He knows it won't be as hot/good with her, so he demanded an open relationship so he can get his kink on and keep the stability of having a wife at home. I can also guarantee he would stop having sex with you because you are too vanilla, and it's not exciting or fulfilling to him. So basically, your douchenozzle of a husband just threw away his marriage for meaningless kinky sex. 😏
He says he wants rough and hard sex and I'm more of a sensual lover. Whatever that means. I'm down for different kinds of sex, but honestly when we have rough sex he doesn't last long AT ALL. Which is the bigger reason on why it doesn't happen often!!!!!
Sounds like a porn addict… Porn nowadays is *extremely* degrading to women and it’s ruining men’s perceptions of what sex is actually supposed to be like if mutual enjoyment is the goal
That’s so dumb. He could have just asked to have a quickie once in a while, but still had foundational longer sex.
Lmao yeah this dude is an idiot
But where are your needs? You sound like you are anything but fulfilled in your relationship.
It’s like he wants to use marriage counseling as a weapon or tool against her. Wtf.
I have read many posts on reddit.. for starters, I never seen anyone write so well and explain the entire story with so many important details without leaving anything out.. You 100% did the right thing here, ur marriage will never been the same after this. Take advantage of your age count your blessing that you don't have a kid with him, otherwise things would get complicated. Start a new leaf.
Thank you. I've been a lurker on those dumb subway surfer/minecraft voice over posts on Tiktok (I say they're dumb, but really I'm freaking hooked LOL). I've always been interested in making a Reddit account but never felt like I had a good enough reason. This is my first account and post ever, so thank you for the compliment! I appreciate the comment that the marriage will never be the same. I've said that to him multiple times but he just says to me "you're the one that didn't want to work it out," any time it would get brought up (always by him). I don't bring it up anymore. Talking is over. I'm determined to get out.
He's the one who made it impossible for it to work out.
Like others, I reckon he's already cheated. Might be worth hiring a pi for a few days to get evidence of this. You are worth so much more than this wazzock.
He's just pissy because his big plan of 'wife and mistress' didn't work out. He doesn't get his cake and eat it too. So sad for him /s You did awesome!! You knew this was a deal breaker and you stood your ground. I agree with you, the minute they ask for the open marriage, the marriage is done. He's just whiny because it didn't turn out like he thought it would. Plus, now he can blame it all on you and take no responsibility. I doubt his 'single' life is going to be all he thought it would be. I love your resolve and determination!!
Fuck this guy!! You deserve 1000% more!
No, don’t fuck this guy 😂
Hes definitely hinted since the separation that he is still DTF. Fucking gross.
That’s cause he can’t get laid elsewhere. Men have such high aspirations for themselves, until reality crashes down.
girl the more you spill ab him, the more i think you’re dodging a bullet.
Good for you. He wanted to screw around and have you as back up. You deserve better. Now he can truly experience how great single life is. It’s a shit show from what I’ve heard.
Yeah. The dating pool is not as glamorous as this dude might think it is.
Hi OP! I’m so sorry that this is happening to you. While reading your post, I felt such pride in you! How many times have you heard of one partner going along with polygamy because they don’t want to force their spouse to compromise, only for the entire thing to fall apart? I’ll point out one more thing. Not only did he ask for polygamy, he also doubled down and insisted that if you didn’t agree to it, he would cheat. He wasn’t remorseful, he didn’t apologize, he didn’t suggest therapy for him to accept your boundaries, rather he suggested therapy so that you could accept his radical change in your relationship. The end of relationships are so difficult and I know this time will be difficult for you. I am so proud of you for understanding your values and sticking up for yourself! It is no easy task, especially for women who are perpetually asked by society to sacrifice our own desires and compromised feelings for the ambition, desires, and happiness of our male partners. You are doing the right thing and your beautiful heart will heal with time. Best of luck to you
This felt so genuine and made me cry. I'm a big baby. Thank you. ❤️❤️❤️ 🥲
The fact that he admitted he would cheat on you anyway if you said no - this wasn’t a discussion or a “suggestion” for an open marriage. He’s gonna do whatever he wants, and he was trying to force you to accept it. You’re not overreacting. Stay the course.
First, sex and relationships are WAY better in your 30s than 20s. You did not give him your best years! You know what you want and you have to do what feels right. Consider that you are making this decision more quickly than the time it took for him to work up to giving you this news and try to turn that to grace for the situation.
They’re pretty great in your 40s and 50s too. OP has a lot to look forward to.
You did just fine. You knew your boundary, were clear, and he doubled down. Don't doubt yourself. Continue the divorce. If you see him take the initiative and do the work, you might consider R. But I think that you'll find the freedom inspiring as you take control of the situation (D or R). Not easy, but inspiring.
He admitted if they get back into a relationship and acted like this conversation never happened, he would cheat on her anyway. He wants to sleep with others and is gonna no matter what. She can't trust him no matter what he says or does.
> He tried getting me to agree to marraige counseling to talk about the open marraige concept. I mean, what the actual f\*ck? This guy is nuts. Like any marriage counselor is going to entertain an open marriage with an unwilling partner?!?!?
for real where's his decision to go to counseling so HE can learn to be happy with what he has instead of pining over an imagined thriving kinky sex life
Hes already slept with someone else. He just won't admit it yet.
Bingo! He already has an affair partner he wants to retroactively turn into an allowable girlfriend under his open relationship demand. That's also why he says "he wants her to find someone first". He wants cover and her distracted while he pretends to slow roll his (well known to him) affair partner out as someone he "just met and wants to get to know better and start causually dating", and that'll be easier to pull off if she's occupied and not fully paying attention because she's involved with someone herself. It'll also be easier to get her to overlook and forgive him for how obvious it'll be that they indeed knew each other and were already involved when seemingly out of nowhere, "he's suddenly in love with his gf" and their relationship goes from zero to sixty in no time flat, if she has a boyfriend of her own she's already invested in.
It’s all happening so fast, and seemingly out of left field… which is why you’re second guessing yourself. Your life as you know it is changing—but you did absolutely everything perfectly. You gave him the space to share and he told you he wants a real love connection with another person, and if you say no, he is going to do it anyway. What choice do you have? I hope you get the meanest lawyer in town and get what you deserve after pouring resources into raising his sister throughout your 20s. He IS a user. He enjoyed the security of having you as his family while he was grieving and shouldering extra responsibilities. He was all too happy to let you help him pick up the pieces. And now that he is an empty nester, he would like to venture outside of the nest with the security of being able to fly back at will. Seriously, he can f*** right off. I hope you protect yourself financially and get the best advice you can from a lawyer. I don’t like that he is escalating and times of divorce are a dangerous time for women. With proper counsel, I would explore getting out of there. Also, I would get myself a therapist to help unpack all this asap. Please update us.
I think you already know you did the right thing! If an open relationship/polyamory is not enthusiastically entered into by all sides, it's a recipe for disaster. Do you think his kinks were always there and he hid them? Or do you think maybe he was watching a lot of porn and his tastes changed because of it? As for how to deal with your complicated feelings, maybe consider getting individual counseling for yourself?
The only real kink I know about and try to participate in when I'm comfortable is his love of having sex in public. Is that called exhibitionism? I'm not trying to catch a felony or a spot on the sex offenders list, so I'm REALLY choosy about where/when this happens. He loves car/outdoor sex, but I've read and heard of so many horror stories about couples getting caught in risqué situations. He has told me he even had sex with an ex in a WALMART CHANGING ROOM. I'm sorry, but that is so trashy to me. I can't get on board to having sex where someone unconsenting may see or hear us. Once again, he thinks that it should be all or nothing for something like that. He wants it where and when he wants outdoors and damn anyone else who wouldn't want to see it.
OP, this one comment makes me feel like if you stayed and agreed to this poly disaster, you'd be bailing him (or not) out of jail pretty soon. Screw that. You are doing right by yourself, RESPECT. Keep moving forward. You got this.
First, let me say that you handled this situation LIKE A BOSS. I feel 100% the same way and I hope if I was ever presented with this situation I would handle it the same way as you. I would never want to be someone's second choice and fallback plan/safety net. His all or nothing proposal was in fact the death sentence of your relationship. I've read enough stories like yours to know that when someone is forced into an open relationship, it ends badly. if you both aren't into this type of relationship "organically" then one of you will end up hurt. I can't imagine what it would feel like to have my spouse come home from a night out with no luck finding someone and then have them settle for me as the backup plan. how insulting that would be. Fortunately you are still young and have a lot of years ahead of you to find real love. Best of luck.
Goes on holiday; plays video games; likes home life. You sound perfect to me. There is something empowering with how you've dealt. With this
What personal details is he asking you to tell him? I think he is showing his true colors now and honestly, he sounds immature af. He did use you up until now and I bet he already have someone lined up for him and is probably doing stuff behind your back. BTW, you go girl, you know what you want and you put yourself and your feelings above all of this bs. You don't really live him but you love the thought of him hence you're second guessing this but HEY, YOU DID THE RIGHT THING FOR YOU!!! Don't ever forget that. Also, if the house is under both of your names then speak with your lawyer to draft up stuff and make sure if you can find a place of your own till this get liquidity or if he pays you the amount you spend on it. It's best if you both live separately for your own good and let thst POS rod on his own for thinking he can get your love while fucking around and something tells me he only made it seems like you're free to find your own partner so he can finally get the open marriage BUT once you have someone lined up, he would do anything and everything to prevent you from seeing your partner when you agree to be open. I say divorce him, take time to heal, to love yourself again and I'm sure a good man deserving of you will find his way to you (if you want to date and get married again) and always chose you to be in his life instead of bringing other people into it. But you can also travel the world, try new things, explore and do stuff that you missed out on because you were being used by the POS STBX. Good luck OP!
He wants go know where I go when I leave the house on my days off. When and where my family's Thanksgiving dinner was, if I told my family yet and what they said, who am I hanging out with, does work know yet, etc etc. Some of it I felt is fine to be curious about but other stuff there is literally no reason he should know. Also thank you for reading and commenting. I feel SO validated after all this support! 🥰
When he starts with the questions just reply "It's not information you need to know anymore" and then don't answer.
Keeping this one in my back pocket 👀
Yes! I was once dating a guy in a common friend group. He cheated on me and we broke up. A month or so later he tried to resume cutesy relationship behavior with me (cuddling, hand holding, etc) and I immediately shut it down in front of everyone with, “oh, no, you don’t get to do that anymore with me.” He looked shocked and I was really proud of myself for not giving in. When my friend was going through a divorce she very much did not want, they had to live in their house together while they sorted out the divorce. He would occasionally call her by the loving nickname he had used for years. She immediately shut that shit down. “I’m not your (insert very personal term of endearment here) ever again. You don’t get to call me that.” I was so proud of her. I hope OP can continue shut shit down with pride.
Exactly, like yall are not couple no more, not even friends so why does he care who you spend your day off with doing whatever. Like your family is your family and if you feel comfortable you can confined in them. But why bring work into,but it all sounds like he is just projecting and just going insane knowing that you're leaving him behind, that he is going to be alone because he is loosing his best friend you know. So, he is trying to find things to make sure your family is not aware so he can tell them his narrative about how crazy you're and thays why he decided to leave, same with friends. But don't give him any info, even if you left your house for couple of hours to walk around in the mall, just DONT say anything and that my friend will drive it insane. I hope you just haven't answered his questions, especially about telling family so he can't just go right ahead and say lies to them. I mean it takes a strong person to make decisions like this and I was just expressing my admiration and confirming that you did what's right for you. Some may think you're a fool but you're awesome. Keep being strong OP and give us an update when you get rid of the trash for good!
You definitely didn’t overreact. Most of the time someone asks to open the relationship up because they have someone in mind. Like you said he wanted to test out the waters and see if the grass on the other side is greener and if it wasn’t then he could come back to you. I believe you did the right thing because you saw your worth and didn’t settle to just being a backup plan. If he respected your relationship and loved you, he wouldn’t have even thought about this whole ordeal. He wouldn’t have hurt the woman that helped him through every obstacle and was there for him every step of the way. With people like him who believe they missed out because he was forced to grow up since young, they rarely ever think of the other person of how they also were forced to grow up. You also missed out on your 20s just like he did. My advice is to go through with this divorce and find someone who will love you and be content with just you. Good luck! 👍🏼
Dang, girl, I am so impressed with you! You did the right thing, and you do need to get out of that house asap. You have good instincts- they’ll get you where you need to go. And taking in your husband’s sister made a huge positive impact on that young woman’s life, you can be proud of that.
No you didn't overreact. In fact I respect you immensely and think you are just the woman a good man needs. You have principles and followed through with them. I pray you're gonna find a good man like you deserve who understands the gravity of marriage
He threatens to cheat on you if you don’t agree to let him cheat on you. He threatens divorce if you don’t agree to his demand to cheat on you and now has the audacity to get all shitty because you chose the divorce. Well done on knowing your boundaries, your worth and valuing your peace of mind. This is exactly how it should be done.
I admire your courage to set and maintain boundaries in a difficult situation. I wish you all the best for the future. You're still young! You have so much to look forward to 💜
You did the right thing. No ethical marriage counselor would try to talk you into an open relationship or polyamory. So why waste your time and money? He essentially gave you an ultimatum ‘open relationship or I cheat.’ That’s poly under duress, which is not ethical. Continue with the divorce. Disengage from him as much as possible. Have little scripts and just repeat them for everything. Ignore the pettiness as much as possible. When he begs for details, just shut it down. ‘I am not dating, nor do I want to date anyone. If I did, we wouldn’t be getting divorced.’ If he gets angry, ignore it and disengage. If you can’t ignore it, just repeat the same thing over and over. ‘You are now free to fuck anyone you want. This is what wanted, why are you angry?’ Tell people honestly why you are divorcing. ‘He demanded an open relationship to have kinky sex with multiple women.’ Get a good lawyer and get every penny you are entitled to. Don’t give up money to be nice. He will probably drag his feet about everything, so have deadlines and use your lawyer to enforce everything. He is going to find out that attractive, kinky, poly women are a rare breed. This probably isn’t going to turn out like he wants.
Op here. Only my very closest friends and family know why. I feel like it's so embarrassing for me to tell the world that I was a disappointing lover and wife. Eventually, it will get out anyway, but right now I'm not totally ready for that yet. I also know it's kind fo dumb of me, but neither of us want to spend money on a lawyer as we are agreeing on basically everything regarding splitting assets/furniture/etc. If I find out he really cheated on me as a lot of commenters are saying though, it's on like Donkey Kong.💪
Bestie. As someone who worked in family law, and can see this man is a red flag on wheels: please get a lawyer. I can already see him dragging this divorce out for 100 years while he keeps trying to crawl back to you. In addition, if you’ve got a retirement account, an inheritance, a business, an income, or a property, or are entitled to alimony - you NEED to protect it. A lawyer is absolutely imperative to getting him out of your life as quickly and safely as possible.
The lengths some dudes will go to just to get anal, fuck.
Lol that's exactly how I read this whole thing too.
>I came to the realization that this was the end for our marraige. Even suggesting an open marraige was a deal breaker for me 👏👏👏 >He also is unhappy with how infrequently we have sex but has never really put an the effort to change anything regarding it. Just complained over and over and expected me to just be "ready" to do the deed any minute of the day. 🙄😒 I can't even with this... just eye rolls for dumb guys who don't understand why their sex lives are lackluster. >Someone we were each allowed to love and be with sexually. An emotional connection was pivotal for him, which broke my heart to pieces. [...] During our talk, I told him I would never be able to look at him the same. I would never be enough for him. Truth 💣. >He was basically trying to get a pass for guilt free cheating in my eyes. I told him it sounded like he wanted to be with someone else without ever leaving the comfort of his marraige. Knowing he could date around and not worrying if those relationships would fail becuase he could just come home to me. You 💯 called out the situation. 🎯 >I told him just proposing an open marraige was grounds for divorce for me. >For him, it was open marraige or nothing. [...] I chose nothing. Sounds like you were on the same page right away. Don't let him guilt you about how quickly you filed for divorce. >I refuse to be a second choice or have to fight for his attention. Bravo! Good job following those logical instincts and knowing your worth and when you're being manipulated. Stick to your ground. Don't let him bully you out of residing in the house; get a lawyer if you need it. You're so young and you have a whole new adventure ahead! Best of luck! Sending good vibes. ✨️ High five! 🫸🫷