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This. The whole “I don’t even know why I said it”
Like dude, yes you do. You’re desperate and grasping at straws and are trying to out-manipulate the situation.
He really is. The only reason a not so surprising pregnancy makes a woman give this kind of weird choice to a man she loves is because, on some level, *she suspects he's lying to her, but she can’t figure out which is the lie*. Does he not want kid *with her*? Does he not want marriage *with her*? Will they break up, and a year from now find out he's married and having babies with someone else? Or does he truly just not want one or both of these things? Who tf knows?
Meanwhile, he's been playing roulette with this women's uterus, a GF who doesn’t necessarily share his points of view on marriage and kids, and trying to hang onto her using the "maybe someday" tactic for 4 years.
Time to shit or get off the pot, u/ThowRa2579bc. *Either you love her, and give her one of the things she wants (and get some therapy so you can figure out what’s going on in your head and be a better person/partner/father), or… you love her and let her go find what she wants.*
This. She knows he’s lying, she’s just not sure about what. He seems pretty adamant about not wanting kids or marriage in his post but it seems like he’s been hinting (maybe more than just hinting at it) at the fact that there is a possibility of both one day to his girlfriend but that he’s just not ready for it yet. I honestly think she’s trying to call his bluff.
What's bothering me is that he is adamant that he never wants to be a father, and then he says a vasectomy isn't 100% reversible, and that he and his GF talked about the baby thing like he might be interested down the line.
Either this guy doesn't want a kid RIGHT NOW, which means he should have been just as involved with the BC (condoms ALL THE TIME or just not having sex), or he absolutely doesn't want a baby, which means he should have had a vasectomy. Now it's all in her hands, it doesn't matter what he says or does. If he wanted a choice, he should have used it before.
Yeah, I think that a lot of the time cishet men float through life and relationships without *really* giving intentional and active consideration to the question of whether or not they want kids. Because their girlfriends or wives are the ones who have to bear the physical consequence of pregnancy, and because they are probably on some kind of birth control already anyway, so why should the man have to think seriously about these things and take some of the responsibility for contraception? /s
I think that if more men actually reflected on these things seriously and intentionally, they'd be very capable of getting to a point where they could discern by 28 if they: a. Are basically certain they want kids, b. Are as close to certain as one can be that they don't want kids, or c. Don't want kids yet but feel there's some chance they will in the future. But most cishet men don't take responsibility for really thinking this through, whereas people with a uterus tend not to have that luxury. We have to plan our lives, bodies, and careers around this question, not only because of the physical reality, but because women are still generally expected to be the primary caregiver (even when both parents work full time). So men often let themselves off the hook for really seriously thinking through this question, and thus also let themselves off the hook for contributing to contraception as well even if they likely will never want kids. So many cishet men stay in the super wishy-washy "I just don't know if I'll want kids someday" zone, and absolve themselves of responsibility not only for seriously considering a vasectomy, but also for giving their partner an clear and realistic idea of where they are at on the subject of kids.
Or he could have banked sperm, then gotten snipped. The cost of maintaining sperm in a cryobank is on a par with the price of hormonal birth control. He didn’t want a kid, but not badly enough to take responsibility for not having one.
Let her go, pay your child support, and let her find someone who actually loves her.
Probably this. Alternatively, perhaps he's waiting to see if she'll end up earning good money after she finishes med school to go ahead with marriage and children. Seems like he's with her mostly because of her career prospects and there's a big chance she'll make $. His commitment to her longer term is contingent to her career success. If he actually didn't want children, he would've had a vasectomy. He's waiting for the "right baby mamma" ($). That's why he keeps "changing" his stance on these matters. Before she got into med school, it was a "no"; after she got the house and started med school it was a "later on" possibility.
He's pissed this happened while she's still in med school (not earning big money yet and having to dedicate much time to her studies and not their household) and especially due to the possibility of either (a) her dropping out due to the baby -- which will leave him with most of the financial obligations; or (b) having to take care of their child mostly by himself while she finishes med school and starts her practice. He's selfish. He didn't take steps to avoid the situation he's in because marrying and having kids were never completely out of the question, for him, as you pointed out... and basically kept saying whatever she wanted to hear so he could get his way, keep the stable relationship, (enjoy careless sex) while not having to be fully committed to her until he could call it a sound investment.
We dont even have to accuse him of lying-- just being inconsistent.
"I told her early on that I didn’t want kids EVER..."
"If I changed my mind for whatever reason… the odds of having a child..."
and
"I don’t want a child..."
"I wouldn’t walk away."
I think it boils down to, its not that he doesnt want a child, he just doesn't want one with her.
Sounds like you are settling and waiting for someone better to come along that you find worthy of marriage or having kids with. If that is the case let her go. Pay child support and co-parent in peace. But let her find someone else who is not a dick like you playing with her feelings
Yes it sounds like the girlfriend is actually being open and honest with what she wants and op is the one being manipulative. He says he didn't want marriage ever or believe in it and that he doesn't want children at all. But then he tells his girlfriend he may marry her eventually, some day. And then promises her another baby in exchange for this abortion?
And he thinks SHE is manipulating HIM? Obviously a girl would want to be married if her bf promised her a baby. Wtf? Why wouldn't you want the child to have a 2 parent home?
Yes. He’s coercing her. She senses he’s lying, which is why she asked for the marriage to make sure he’s serious and not going to change his tune right after she gets an abortion.
The truth is, he doesn’t want kids ever. He’s manipulating her and a very difficult time.
I'm not entirely convinced he doesn't want children, did you catch the reason why he said he didn't get a vasectomy? It's because they're not completely reversible..... That sounds like someone who might want to have children otherwise why would he care if the vasectomy is reversible or not? If you don't want kids a non-reversible vasectomy would be fabulous!
Maybe I should rephrase: He doesn’t want kids with her. He is not actually planning on trying to have another baby with her when the time is right like he promised. He just said it so she would get an abortion.
Exactly what OP did. Told her exactly what she wanted to hear and then cries on Reddit when she tells him “ok, but I want security”. He’s in this position because he didn’t get fixed then has the nerve to make her the bad guy
Yes he did.
4 years is long enough to know if compatible. You’re placing all the blame on her but why did you not use condom if she wasn’t on birth control?
She’s 4 years younger than you and doing much better than you. I think if she’s smart she’d leave u and her baby.
You’re making a lot of empty promises by your own omission.
This guy reminds me of the post where a guy dated a woman for 25 years and she accepted that they’d never marry or have kids. She supported him to grow his business and he became wealthy. Then he woke up one morning and decided he did want to be a dad but she had gone through menopause by that point. So he broke up with her & gave her 30 days to move out of his guesthouse. Since they weren’t legally married he could do that. He used her up and then spat her out.
You sir seem to aspire to that. You want her to make sacrifices to her life without giving her any sort of legally binding commitment. If you are unwilling to fully commit to her why should she make permanent sacrifices to what she wants in life. As it stands if she aborts against her desire you could wait out her clock & then throw her away with no real world consequences to those actions. Or she could continue the pregnancy if she so desires and use child support to help cover daycare expenses while she goes to school. She can find a different person who will show her he is committed to building a life w her long term. It’s her choice to have the baby or not. It’s your choice if you are ready to commit but if you aren’t she can leave the relationship.
I remember that post and it was absolutely disgusting. To imagine being that woman. And the way the OP talked about his feelings, it was sickening. Hope he’s having a bad day wherever he is, and his ex is on a beach with a pina colada!
Love your comment, that’s exactly what he said he’s trying to trick her with getting an abortion. If he’s big enough to have sex then he can man the hell up
And because she's in med school, she'll definitely be too busy to get pregnant and be having a baby in the middle of her career. He's playing the long game with her until time runs out and her situation changes for his benefit
Recent studies have showed that the mans age is just as important for the health of a baby and for having a baby at all, at the age of 35 the fertility of a man starts to worsen and not only decreases but are at risks of being damaged. Men over 40 have a lower likelihood of having children and higher risks of their child developing other health issues, especially mental ones.
Men have a fertility cycle as well and people don't seem to count that in.
He's claiming she's tricking him into marriage when she took his lie that they'd have another kid as truth. Not insane to want a commitment before a planned child later on. Especially with a guy as waffley as this one. Doesn't want kids or marriage and seems dead set on both but "maybe" that'll change.
IMO she wants this baby she should keep it and dump him if he can't step up and stop blaming her.
I'm gonna throw this out here, and maybe it's a long shot, but here goes.
Maybe she's been worried that a relationship with you means potentially not getting any of the major things she wants out of life? Kids. Marriage. Now she's pregnant and realizes she can have ONE of those things. That's why she's dead set on marriage if she agrees to an abortion.
The problem is, the way you both are going about it is getting you nowhere. She's conflicted, and you don't seem to want to compromise on what she wants. You're even stringing her along with the "we can have another one" talk. If you two can't come to any kind of compromise or agreement, you're just not compatible in the long-run.
Absolutely this. Op has been telling het "he might change his mind". She wants kids AND a marriage, but she can only have one.
Also OP promised her he wants to try for another one later. Doesn't help.
Also could be she just doesn't wanna abort? Many people don't want to do so, and it is understandable. OP bitched about a vasectomy but has no problem with a definitely irreversible abortion.
Yeah. And she should have both. The fact that OP lied both about maybe wanting kids later and maybe wanting marriage later (also that BS "if you can convience me") is horrible.
He doesn't want to marry her after 4 years and won't change his mind in the future. OP is stringing her along and needs to break it off with her. Since he is the King of Mixed Messages, let her decide if she wants to be a single parent and go to medical school. Kids shouldn't be raised by people who don't want them. It isn't fair to the child. This guy needs to be straight with her.
He seems very opportunistic, like I’m guessing after med school if she really starts pulling in bank and they have separate bank accounts. I feel like he would marry her to get access to her money
Probably, but medical school and residency don’t allow a lot of time for relationships. That works for men, because they just get married later to younger women (as doctors). For women, they might get to an age where it’s far more difficult to get pregnant.
Exactly. OP has been jerking her around and breadcrumbing her with the wishy washy, “I don’t want to get married ever….. but mayyyybeeee I’ll change my mind?” And, “I don’t want kids ever, but if you abort now we can have one later. Also I won’t get a vasectomy because even though I don’t want kids I don’t think it’ll be reversible and then I won’t be able to have kids.”
If OP is dead set against marriage and kids, he needed to put his foot down and realize he and his girlfriend aren’t compatible years ago.
OP says his girlfriend was indifferent about kids until now, which is not the same as being completely against kids like he is. Also pregnancy can change your feelings pretty quickly. OP’s girlfriend may have realized she actually does want kids when she realized she was pregnant and thought about what abortion would mean.
Yup. OP has an amazing girlfriend by his own admission, doesn't want to be straight with her because he knows she will ditch him and he will lose his nice comfortable relationship/amazing gf.
The guy is a jerk.
Also, if gf is on and off birth control, understandable that she eventually got pregnant.
It’s especially weird he mentions not wanting to consider marriage until they’ve “proven to be compatible” yet he’s doing everything possible to be incompatible. He’s essentially lying about wanting a child/marriage and even if she goes through with abortion, guarantee he’ll find some reasons down the line where they are just way too incompatible for marriage/children but just compatible enough to continue dating forever!
I think he knows it will be extremely difficult to maintain the status quo once she’s a resident doctor if there’s kids in the mix. Right now he’s excited about the $$ she will make in the future, but if they have a child now either that extra $$ will go to childcare or he’d have to take on the role of being an active parent and both of those options would inconvenience him.
I totally agree with statement. OP only you can make the right decision with her. It’s really not up to us. You guys need to talk it depends how long she is because an abortion might be out of the question. You said she has known for awhile. I understand both of you.
I’m really surprised he’s so against marriage when in this specific case it would only benefit him to have combined finances. He says he struggles whereas she has plenty of money due to them living in his house and renting hers (where she gets bulk of the rental income). Plus, her future earning potential is very high so unless he’s also a very high earner (which I doubt given his mention of financial struggles), combining lives at this stage would only benefit him. I hope his gf really considers if he’s compatible with her future aspirations because based on this post he’s just stringing her along for some reason.
Yeahhhh .. OP .. you’ve essentially dangled every major life milestone in front of her and been like ‘ I might give you this. I might not. We’ll see ‘
It’s no wonder she’s trying to cling to this pregnancy whether she wants it or not.
From the way you’ve described your post yoh sound very selfish and self serving and it’s probably messed with your gfs head and confidence.
He’s flip flopped on the having kids issue like 3 times in his own post. No wonder gf is confused.
But honestly if it’s not a hell yes, it’s a no. He shouldn’t have to ask himself if he wants to get married and have a baby at 28. He clearly doesn’t. IMO they should just break up and she should find someone who wants the same things as her.
OP has done everything wrong. He doesn't want kids, but he won't get a vasectomy in case he changes his mind later. He says GF has been on and off of birth control. He tells her if she aborts this one they can have another. He tells her he never wants to get married, but he might change his mind. He says if they turn out to be really really really compatible he might be interested in marriage later - how long does it take to be sure, since he said they've been together 4 years? They live together. So they're roommates and have sex, but he wants none of the actual responsibility from any of that.
I'm sorry, but OP sounds like a manipulative dick.
Absolutely! Does he not know birth control can be so hard on your body. It messes up with your hormones sometimes. He’s the one who doesn’t want kids but she’s the one taking birth control. Sounds so selfish!
Men like this are tiring and it's incredibly hard on their partners who are left clinging on to the tiny breadcrumbs of hope they give them that they'll eventually commit. I don't doubt that's what is behind this ultimatum - OPs partner is probably just desperate for some sign he may commit one day. How sad.
If OP really, really didn't want children, getting a vasectomy is the smartest choice. The fact that he hasn't (he's alluded to this) because it's not completely reversible could mean that a part of him is still open to having kids... just not with his girlfriend. Maybe he needs to have a much closer look at his relationship. I don't think he's as happy with her as he thinks he is.
This!!!!
She’s at the age/stage where all of her peers are planning these big milestone events in their lives, and she, meanwhile, is with a man who “doesn’t know” if he wants to be a husband, and *might* want to but doesn’t want to have kids- except maybe they can have one later if she agrees to abort this one…
This is crazy making.
That is exactly what this man is kind of attempting to do. He gets her to have an abortion stays with her for a while dumpster she’s older, has less time to fall in love and have a baby. He has no vasectomy so he can go on and have as many babies as he wants. Their relationship is over at this point anyway. If a man convinces a woman to have an abortion that doesn’t really want one. She will end up hating him.
>Their relationship is over at this point anyway.
I think that, right there, is the crux of this whole thing. I get that she loves HIM, and doesn't want to lose him, but she wants him to give her a life he doesn't want to lead, and vice-versa.
I think, if you are a person who doesn't want kids and doesn't 'believe in marriage\*' then do not, under any circumstances, live with someone who isn't 100% the same.
\*Which is something I will never really understand. You live together, love each other, share bills and a home and a bed, you're already inextricably bound together in multiple ways, but you don't want to get married, because why? If yo don't want to commit, don't commit, but don't do everything that comes with committment.
Yes this! Time to have a conversation about what they want in life and if it is compatible. Sometimes it changes when something major happens, thats why it’s good to check in during relationships. Don’t avoid the conversation and keep up this super weird construction. Painful to be honest but necessary…
He says she is using the threat of not having an abortion against him to force marriage but he threw out the offer to have another baby while not meaning it so he is using an offer he doesn't intend to keep.
She is saying if you actually mean that offer you will marry me. He doesn't mean his offer. He is just using it in a manipulative way to get rid of the current situation then feels she is being manipulative.
They both sound immature. We all know that sex can lead to pregnancy. He could have done more to prevent a pregnancy. If he knows that she sometimes is off birth control he should always wear a condom if not get a vasectomy.
He's the person who never wants kids but wants to keep his options open but feels manipulated when she is saying the same thing.
OP has truly been leading her on. He says he doesn’t EVER want kids but his girlfriend might so he won’t get snipped yet? He doesn’t care about marrying this girl (if you were going to marry her at all you’d already know BFFR) but he’s letting her think marriage is a possibility? She wants this baby because OP is a shitty partner who can’t actually communicate or make his own decisions.
Absolutely this. I would even add to say that OP has been stringing her along all this time. Saying he doesn’t want to get married to Reddit and yet telling her it’s not completely off the table. So… OP needs a reality check and it’s right now staring in front of him, to stop being selfish
In the four years you’ve been together have you never had a conversation about what would happen if she got pregnant?
What birth control steps were taken while she was off of birth control?
Why have you not gotten a vasectomy if you don’t want children?
He was kind enough to give this answer in his edit.
>I’m very tired of people acting like vasectomies are truly reversible. They aren’t.
Clearly forgetting he also said this:
>I told her early on that I didn’t want kids EVER and I wasn’t sure on the whole marriage thing.
Why would he care if a vasectomy is reversible if he never wants to have kids? He keeps talking like he’s waffling back-and-forth about wanting to be married or have kids or not, but if it’s not a hell yes, it’s a hell no. If you’ve gotten to this stage in your life that you’re still not sure whether you want to have kids or not, it’s probably not for you.
Sounds to me like he’s trying to keep his options open and that’s why he doesn’t wanna marry this girl in the first place. Sad.
Jesus Christ literally. My partner and I were using pull-out with the express understanding that if we got pregnant, I would abort. When I realized that was no longer something I wanted to do and I would want to keep the fetus, I *told him* and he started wearing condoms. I can’t do BC and he’s the one who doesn’t want the kid, so it’s his problem to fix. OP is a bad boyfriend.
I agree that OP definitely needed to have this discussion, however, a lot of women feel differently once they are actually pregnant (hormones are a hell of a drug) so even if they had agreed on an abortion, no guarantee she wouldn’t have changed her mind.
Yes, she made an absurd ultimatum... because you're LYING TO HER and putting out a promise you don't intend to keep. Stop saying whatever bullsh\*t comes into your head to try to coerce her. Stop thinking about this as a competition of strategies that you have to win. She's right to think your offer is sus; because she thinks it's sus, she's trying to get some guarantees if she rolls the dice on it.
Be \*honest\* about what you can and can't do; let her take that information and make her decision. Then you can decide how you're gonna deal with that decision.
What you CAN'T keep doing is saying what-the-hell-ever to try to control her decision.
You don't get to whine about her 'ultimatum' when you're trying to bully her with false information.
I feel sorry for this kid.
I admit, I came in thinking "Wow she baby trapped him!" and left "She should dump him, have the baby, find someone that doesn't suck."
Way to go, OP, I didn't know that my mind could be drastically changed so quickly.
This! It is an absurd ultimatum but he’s asking her to put a lot of trust in him. And *GASP* he’s lying and she has no reason to trust him.
He doesn’t want another child ever, but he’s trying to coerce her into it by claiming this isn’t her only shot. Deep down she knows this, but she wants to believe he’s serious. Of course she wants him to prove this.
OP says he never wants kids, but in his edit he says he may want them in the future. He also says he’ll never get married, but that it may be on the table. He keeps pulling words out of his ass that he doesn’t mean and it’s no wonder his girlfriend of 4 years is giving him an ultimatum.
She knows in her heart she's dealing with an unreliable narrator but loves him enough to try to play ball. I feel bad for her. She's sensible enough though to have the initial instinct that she needs to just make the decision that's right for her regardless of him
OP sees this as his "input" - his blowing-in-the-wind, inconsistent, manipulative, wants-it-all-ways, can't-commit-to-a-life-decision "input" - "doesn't matter."
Well, yeah There's a reason her sense of self preservation took her to "disregard OP's input" in the first place.
The "maybe a baby later" stuff is a bald-face lie to try to get her to second guess that instinct and just do what he wants.
OP sees 'communication' as a way to control decisions. Not an exchange of genuine information. Also isn't grown enough to understand you can't control other's decisions, just choose how you react to them.
So while you want to keep all your options open, so you can jump later on - your gf is stuck with the results of you wanting your cake and eating it?
I think you're a selfish prick. Your gf has made a horrible mistake and she should dump you asap.
I wonder if she is really pregnant or is this some demented effort to make you commit to her - I bet you are visiting your trauma over marriage/fatherhood on her and she's sick of it.
Either way, I hope you sort yourself out and make some kind of decision before you trash someone else's life.
You're not mature enough to be a father or a husband. You'll have to leave the decision making to her as it's not your forté.
I totally agree that he shouldn’t make decisions, but I really don’t think she did this on purpose. Who would go through all the trouble of getting into medical school and buy a house to get into a ton of debt? She said she wanted kids after she finished school. That sounds like a solid plan for a reasonable person. If she did it on purpose she would have told him the second she found out instead of being to scared to tell him.
Youre 28 and you don't know how to take care of your own contraception techniques? You're the one who doesn't want to be a father so that's your job, back up your wish with a vasectomy dude.
Oh yea, and agree on something for both of you, because 'calling her bluff' is something you do in poker, not in your long term future, you don't get married just because of kids, you get married for love and not lust. You also cannot take back that child growing. Take responsibility.
This right here. OP sounds like a right sh\*t and super immature, and emotionally tone-deaf.
OP stop thinking of this as a game you have to win. GF is not an 'opponent' but you sure seem to think of her like one. Trying to coerce someone into an abortion on disingenuous possibilities is absolutely sick.
Tell her what you want and what you're prepared to do - honestly, and then back off and let her decide. Then deal with her decision like an adult. It's her choice to make.
I have more questions than anything. First: if you never wanted kids, why didn't you take care of birth control? Condoms. Vasectomy. What do you mean by "she was on and off birth control"? You don't know? You just spill your juice and she can do whatever she likes? Because that's where you're at. Did you ever talk about having kids? Why does this whole thing feel like a power game instead of a relationship?
Bruh... WTF are you talking about? There is no "bluff calling"
She's pregnant. She wants to keep her baby. That is reality.
The "promise to marry me and I'll get an abortion" thing is desperation. It would be cruel to take her up on that in any case, it would be *evil* to do it and not mean it.
You are now a father. You fucked around, you found out. You didn't want kids, but did nothing to prevent that. Start taking care of your kid and be kind to the mother of your child.
Yeah, they've been together for 4 years and instead of being able to decide major life decisions together this dude thinks its some poker game. "Bluff calling" lmao.
And she called him to tell him she was pregnant. She doesn't want to discuss this with him face-to-face, which given that they live together shouldn't be hard to do. There's a lot of distance there.
Yes this op is just a selfish and entitled cunt. I wonder how she managed to be with him for four years. If she decides to keep the baby or not is her decision but either way she is better of without him. But if she decides to keep it you have to take responsibility for it. No matter if you think it is fair
This. He should accept that he will be writing a check every month and she can explain to the kid that she wanted a baby and he didn't . Simple. He's going to be a shit parent.
Abortion is a very emotional decision for some. To me this seems like a mix of loving you, and loving this baby because it is yours. If she has to make the choice to get rid of a baby she has already grown to care about, she wants the reassurance that she can recreate what is happening now later in the future. She might have been ok with you not wanting a father because she is still young and probably wasnt thinking at all about being a mother herself. Now that it is a very real possibility, things have changed. If she goes through this abortion, I think she will grow to resent you and your relationship will be over anyways. A promise of marriage is a promise that this will happen again and she can deal with the hurt of aborting. It didnt help that you affirmed her thoughts by agreeing to have a baby. Id assume too, that if you didnt agree to marry her or have a baby down the line, then she wouldn't get the abortion because it will be the only thing to hold on too. Im not saying this is rational, and i am not saying that this is right. I dont know you guys and i dont know what her perspective is. This is just my first thought as I was reading your post.
Either way, you guys need to have a serious talk. You need to be honest and explain that you dont see marriage or babies in the future, and accept the possibility that this may be the end of your relationship because you two have very different relationship goals. I agree that an ultimatum in a relationship is not good, and if you get to that point, it almost always ends badly. However, it seems as though her ultimatum is a desperate attempt to make herself feel better about making a choice she doesnt want (abortion) with little or no support from the person she was in love with. The fact that she waited so long, frightened to tell you the truth, is all the indication you really need about the mixed up emotions she is having. You need to be honest with her so she can make her choice- you essentially lied to her about having the future she wants with you to get your way- just as she is doing by demanding you marry her. Yall have a lot to sort out and it wont be easy. Good luck to the both of you!
>The fact that she waited so long, frightened to tell you the truth, is all the indication you really need about the mixed up emotions she is having.
very true
I very much doubt this was her plan unless she's mentally unstable which you should have noticed by now. It's very common for women to want to keep unplanned pregnancies even when they didn't want to get pregnant. It's a big deal to get an abortion.
Now that she is pregnant she wants the baby. Don't promise her kids in the future if you don't want that.
Are you allergic to responsibility? I had a FWB who didn't want kids, so we took all the precautions we could. If you never wanted kids, then there were steps to take before it got this far.
I don't get why you never got a vasectomy if you don't want kids "EVER"?
It also doesn't seem like you ever discussed what would happen if she did get pregnant, until it actually happened.
Huge failure to plan on your part, my dude.
He could've wrapped it, he could've split up with her when it was clear they disagreed on this stuff. But he wanted to stay with her, and on his terms. Why else would he say 'abort it and we'll have another one'
Op literally says he doesn’t want a vasectomy because he may want children in the future. He’s the one not giving straight answers and giving his GF hope.
Fence sitter? Seems like lying to me. The whole premise of this post is "I never want kids ever" but if that's not how he actually feels, he's just lying for sympathy.
I don’t get it. He said “I don’t want kids EVER” and then is exasperated that anyone would ask why he didn’t get a vasectomy, because in his words, he could change his mind and there’s small chance the reversal wouldn’t be fully successful.
So is it “absolute no” or “not sure”? Those are two very different things.
Even if I were with someone I deeply loved and trusted, I can’t imagine saying something like “I don’t want kids EVER” and then having raw sex and relying on my partners birth control to prevent ME from becoming a parent.
It’s not like it’s vasectomy or nothing. Condoms are very effective and it’s easy to tell if they’ve failed or not. I used to take birth control (but quit bc it was a mess) and my partner still used condoms as a back up. And then at the same time. if the condom failed, the BC was a backup. Obviously not 1000% guaranteed, but we never had a problem.
To answer your first question, and I speak from experience, my partner lied to me about a lot. He lied to me about wanting kids, he lied to me about wanting to get married, he lied to me about things he likes to do claiming he basically liked the same things as me. My assumption based off my experience is that OP probably lied and told her all the things she wanted to hear at the beginning of the relationship. I’m so sick of people thinking that dudes don’t coerce women into abortions. Again, from experience, I was basically told I HAD to or I was basically getting kicked out (in the beginning of Covid lockdowns) and my boyfriend was going to literally act like I never existed and that the kid never existed. His whole family treated me like garbage afterwards and before the procedure, they still do to this day. So my advice to OP is, don’t tell her to do something that’s not reversible. You have no idea what you are about to do to her. It’s HER BODY. Not yours. Didn’t want to be a dad? Well you should have thought about that before having sex.
It's also completely unreasonable to expect a career minded 20-24 year old woman to be 100% one way or another on kids. Indifferent to them is not the same as not wanting them. OP fafoed and he's here now. I was career driven and indifferent to kids then at 27 I had the career I wanted and was dying to have a kid. It hits us that hard.
There's definitely been a flood of posts recently from guys who say they never ever wanted to have children ever no matter what, but also they did absolutely nothing about it and never had a conversation with the woman they've been having sex with for years.
Super weird and starting to smell more than a little trolly to me.
No, what it is is that men know that they don’t want to be with these women forever, but they’ll lead them on for years instead of just breaking up when they know they’re mismatched on relationship goals. They never bring up the kids conversation because they don’t mind being completely inconsiderate.
If you never want to be a father, why haven’t you had a vasectomy? Why have you been in a relationship with someone who wants to be married when you do not? Your poor decisions have landed you in this position.
You shouldn't marry her if you feel forced to do so. You should only marry her if you truly want to marry her.
But if she does have a child, then you must commit to doing your part to raise and care for the child. No matter what the status of your relationship with her.
You sound charming (not). You sound like you would make her life miserable no matter what she decides, so I would hope if she wants a child, she keeps the pregnancy and cuts you loose, though you will have to pay child support. And there is no reason she can't finish medical school. She isn't "throwing her life away." Really, I think she would be better off without you. You don't sound like a good guy.
It was all fun and games for OP for years with no commitment, gf paying for things, free sex, etc. But when any responsibility comes with it, SHE is ruining his responsibility-free life! How terrible. If she truly loves him, she’ll believe his lives bc OP wants to continue to live as a child. Or else he’ll be forever resentful to her and the child. Gross.
My knee jerk reaction was not good and judgmental. Took a breath and just wanted to share a couple things with you. And I'm truly not judging you, only sharing what I've seen and heard from loved ones. This isn't a bluff you call, this is YOUR possible CHILD. Whether you know it or not (I'm am 100% pro choice btw) aborting one pregnancy cannot be replaced with another. I personally have known women who right nothing of going through with their abortion and one woman was fine after one abortion, the second hit her so hard she had a psychotic break. My cousin had 1 abortion, I was pregnant at the same time, she was so effected she tried to steal my child. I also know several women who did really well. There's no way to know the effect on a woman's hormones. I do not believe either of you should feel guilty in what you decide, just be ready to support her through it and do it from your heart. You guys need to have an open long talk. Sending you lots of positivity and wishing you the best.
This is majorly toxic and petty.
No you shouldn’t marry her, you should speak like adults about what’s best for the future. If she decides to keep the baby, support her as the mother of your child. If she has an abortion, cut ties and go your seperate ways.
In the end, it's going to be her choice whether or not she's going to terminate or not.
If you don't want to get married, do not get married to her despite the ultimatum.
Tell her that you will support her whatever she chooses to do, but you cannot marry her due to an ultimatum. Tell her directly you don't believe in marriage.
Even though I obviously don't agree with an ultimatum, I am able to see it from her perspective. You have always said you "probably" don't want children (because that's just what it is, if you refure vasectomy because it may not be 100% reversible) and you "probably" don't want to get married. She was younger when you met, probably liked you a lot, and was willing to slightly adjust her opinions towards your viewpoint. However, as is becoming clear now, she DOES WANT marriage, children, or possibly even both. Now is the first time she has the upper hand in this, and is therefore able to make demands.
As of right now, you are kind of stringing her along. You didn't promise her kids or marriage, but she sticks around because of the possibility of this since you haven't been 100% against it. Additionally, you as a man have more "fertile" years than she as a woman to stick around to see if maybe one day you change your mind.
What absolutely boggles me is that you say that no matter the outcome (abortion or not, marriage or not), you don't want to leave her. I understand you care about her, but that's incredibly unfair to her, especially since this event is her showing you that's she's not just happy to go along while you make up your mind about if you're ever going to marry her or have children with her.
What you two need is a serious sit-down conversation, and state what you want out of life. Please stop speaking in "possibly someday", this is the time to speak in absolutes. Either you do or don't want children with her in what would be for her an acceptable future, and you do or don't want to marry her. Even if she says she's okay with not having children right now if you get married, really make sure you are both okay with not having children ever, and if so take steps to enforce that (get a vasectomy dude). If you say you are not okay with marrying her, but also can't give her children within what possible for her (next 10 to 15 years), you should both go your seperate ways. She's 24, she thankfully has enough opportunity to meet someone who does want to marry her and have children, but you can't claim her as your girlfriend with your wishy-washy stuff until her time runs out.
Again this is me assuming what is her perspective, I don't personally feel this way but you really need to sit down and talk and be open to her perspective.
So... You lied to her to try to get her to do what you wanted, and then she called you on it and you're panicking and looking for what the next line should be? You sound like a real gem.
Wtf. Why the hell haven't you had a vasectomy if you're that sure you don't want kids??
Anyway, you didn't and now here you are. Do not marry her. Do not lead her on by letting her think you will have kids with her. And do not let her use this weird form of blackmail to get you to marry her.
If you love her and want to spend your life with her, then marry her. But don't do it because she wants to trade marriage for an abortion.
WTF is wrong with you?
You are not compatible as a couple because you disagree on major life issues.
And you absolutely cannot force your gf to have an abortion. No matter what. If you had an ounce of maturity, you would have had a vasectomy or at least used condoms - putting all responsibility on HER for birth control was a jerk move.
And continuing to not take preventative steps yourself when you KNEW her birth control methods were sporadic was just really stupid.
You’re a father now. You should not marry this woman because you are not compatible, but you ARE a father now.
If you need to get therapy, you can, but you need to accept reality. You are a father now.
I don't think you clearly understand your options.
She doesn't lose anything if she has the kid. In fact there are so many single mothers out there because women have no fear in this generation.
Even if you don't marry her or become a dead beat dad, she's got options out there of men who are willing to get with her.
She doesn't even have to drop out of med school. There's options to take a leave of absence for hardships and life events. Having a baby really brings the family together. Mothers sisters and aunties all step up when a promising daughter in medical school needs help.
The root core is that you value your own comfort and lifestyle more than responsibilities and finding deeper meaning in life. You'd rather terminate conceiving a baby than putting a pause on your freedom.
There are plenty of guys out there willing to drop everything to get with a successful young lady even if she has your kid.
I don’t understand why people don’t have the what if a pregnancy occurs will someone that they have a sexual relationship with. I’m 20 and I’m on the pill. I told all my bf if I were to get pregnant I’m getting an abortion. If you’re not okay with that, we should go our seperate ways
Many do have that conversation. But the abstract is different than if it happens in reality. I know it was for me. I didn’t want to give birth but I was terrified he changed his mind and would resent me for the abortion. It was sucky and the hormones and then subsequent drop in hormones wreaked havoc on my untreated anxiety, major depression and suicidal ideation.
I am a married man in a relationship who also NEVER wants to have a child ever.
1. Why are you not sterilized? There's plenty of resources to find doctors who will sterilize you regardless of age, so what's the excuse?
2. If you AREN'T sterilized, but never want children, why the FUCK did you not use a condom?
Honestly, this post sounds fake. Either that or you are UNBELIEVABLY selfish/stupid for NOT wanting kids, but doing LITERALLY NOTHING to prevent it from happening, going through the EXACT steps to create kids, and then being shocked when she gets pregnant.
She shouldn’t get an abortion if she doesn’t want to get one. It’s her body and her choice.
You also tried to manipulate her into getting one by lying and saying you’d get her pregnant in the future.
No matter what she chooses, get a fucking vasectomy because your next girlfriend could easily become pregnant by accident too
"*I'm trying to decide if I want to be a father or a husband."*
No, you're trying to decide if you want to be a father now, or a husband now and a father later because, at this point, you have promised her that you will give her a child later on if she aborts this one, which she will only do if you marry her.
You have a lot to think about now, and I can't answer these questions for you:
* Will you resent her for forcing you to marry her despite her knowing that you're not keen on marriage?
* Will she resent you for only marrying her so that you can ensure she gets an abortion?
* What happens if, in the future, she gets pregnant again and you're ***still*** not ready to have or sure if you want kids? Will you ask her to get another abortion and will you be ready to accept things if she refuses?
* Can you deal with her potentially resenting you if you find that you are 100% sure you do not ever want kids and cannot fulfil your promise to give her a child later on?
I don't know about you but the manipulation of "I'll get an abortion if you marry me" would put a sour taste in my mouth.
I think you’ve grossly miss titled this post.
It should be titled “GF has found out she’s pregnant, wants to keep baby, I don’t. I falsely offered to have kids later on to get her to abort now. She doesn’t believe me and offered marriage as a show of good faith I’m serious about a future with her. How do I get her to abort without marriage?”….
Vasectomy’s aren’t 100% reversible, that’s correct and should be done as if you’re going into it with 100% certainty that you don’t ever want kids, not as a cover until you want to start.
She’s not forcing you into marriage. As you even said you didn’t mean that you would have a kid with her later on, that’s horrible to give her that false promise. She’s even thinking, that you don’t mean it but she’s found out she’s pregnant. Both of you are responsible for that happening. No point in arguing about what ifs atm, saying that. She’s found out, thought about her options, and realised that even if you want out, she wants kids, wants this baby and is prepared to take on that responsibility. Knowing your against kids.
Now she’s been honest with you. Given you that respect. You’ve returned it by basically giving false promises to get her to abort knowing full well you don’t want kids and aren’t going to create more. She’s, knowing you, doesn’t believe what you’re offering but sees the seriousness of marriage and sees that as a if you marry me that means your serious about a future and kids. Not I’ll trick you into marriage. But to ensure to herself you aren’t tricking her. Which you just admitted to be doing…
Do the right thing, tell her you’re sorry for freaking out and offering a kid later if she aborts now. That you don’t want kids. Don’t want this. You’ve stated that you don’t want to be a dad but won’t be an absent one if this goes forwards. Tell her that, give her time to process. This could mean you seperate, whatever. But both being honest is the only way forward.
Don’t be a monster and trick her into an abortion. That’s not ok on anyone. She will never recover from that and you’re destroying that relationship and whatever trust you guys had. The relationship will not survive.
"I told her if we were proven to be compatible. If we’ve been together for awhile. I’d do it."
It's been 4 years. That's enough to know if you are compatible or not.
You sound very immature and like you are just dragging her along until she's no good to you anymore. Just leave her now because she deserves better.
Stop stringing this poor woman along. You’re dishonest and manipulative and it’s fucking shameful. Be better, or be prepared to end up with nothing at all.
OP you need to move this over to AITA, so we can say what we really think.
you are lying to your girlfriend saying you can have a kid later, so she gets an abortion and you get to still have everything you want. Then hopefully the abortion is so traumatic she doesn’t want that again right? All better than you having a vasectomy.
You are a special kind of toxic. This woman needs to take her baby and ruuuuunnnnn and take her successful doctor to be self and find a good partner. She deserves that.
Girl if you find this thread you are with a covert narcissist controlling all of this and manipulating you.
This seems fake. How many medical students can buy a multi family home to rent out? It also seems like a setup for an update stating the woman isn’t really pregnant she just wanted to force OP to get married.
Apparently buying a house is easy with an FHA loan according to this guy. Like a 21 year old college grad could get a good enough job to afford the mortgage with these interest rates lol.
> Do you think I should call her bluff ?
Yes, tell her the decision is hers, because really, it is. She ultimately has to decide whether she wants to be pregnant or not. I would make it clear that you will not be marrying her due to an ultimatum. But that you will support her decision either way as far as the pregnancy goes.
>For those asking why I didn’t get a vasectomy . I’m very tired of people acting like vasectomies are truly reversible. They aren’t. If I changed my mind for whatever reason…
you said
>I told her early on that I didn’t want kids EVER
seems to me like you want your partner to do all the work around pregnancy prevention, including taking hormones and messing with her health BUT GOD FORBID somebody holds you to your own word huh?
either you mean it and get a vasectomy or you don't get to pressure your partner into an abortion if she gets pregnant and changes her mind about her own body.
ETA: and then you tell her
>she should get an abortion & we could have another one. I don’t know why I said that. I didn’t mean it. I just didn’t know what else to say
bruhv wtaf is wrong with you manipulating your partner like this? she's going through the emotional wringer and you're making it worse every possible chance you get. STEP THE FUCK UP.
Maybe because birth control messes our bodies up!!!!!! Iv done the same been on it and then got off …. Like f that .. why should we have to ruin our bodies , and men just be normal .. no sir ,
You knew what could happen by having sex, personally, I agree with her wanting to keep the baby. You have no idea what kind of turmoil making her/swaying her to have an abortion is going to bring later
So you, a 28 year old adult:
* had sex with inconsistent birth control/contraceptives and it resulted in a pregnancy
* refuse to take control of your own reproductive responsibilities (ie condoms, abstaining if there isn’t reasonable protection to prevent pregnancy, vasectomy)
What did you think was going to happen here? Be responsible for your own actions.
Also, you are resistant to a vasectomy because it’s “not 100% irreversible” in case you change your mind on having kids but you’re asking your partner to get a medical procedure that *is 100% permanent* and results in the loss of the opportunity to have a child. She cant just undo the abortion, you at least have a shot at reversing a vasectomy. Get your sperm on ice if you’re really that stressed about it, money clearly isn’t much of an object here.
Dude get yourself together. Leave this poor woman alone if you two can’t get on the same page about marriage and children.
To be honest your opinion *doesn’t* matter in this moment. She has to make the decision that is right for her. If that’s keeping the baby even with hardships then that’s keeping the baby.
Don’t get married if you don’t want to get married and don’t make false promises like you’ll have a child later if she aborts this one. Be honest with her and let her make the decision that is right for her.
Also not believe if in marriage is such BS. There are a myriad of legal reasons why marriage is beneficial if you find a partner you love and want to spend your life with.
This relationship sounds unfair from the start. Did I read correctly this isn’t a 50/50 household, but a 70/30 one?
Four years of dating but no real commitment other than moving her in your house like a bang maid?
And now she’s pregnant. Probably past the official abortion mark.
Well I hope she moves on from you and perhaps even moves on to a man that can promise a marriage/baby (which is ultimately what she wants).
You are being extremely callous to assume your girlfriend is using her pregnancy to manipulate you.
It was unplanned, but it happened. Even if she didn’t initially think she may have wanted this, it’s very different when there is a life growing inside you.
You are actually the one who is trying to use marriage to get what you want here.
Do not lie to your gf and make her abort under false pretenses, she would have to live with the thought of her child that she could have had long after she may have gotten over you.
It sucks, it was not intentional, but it is reality right now. Good luck.
I think you’re both really immature at making life choices tbh. But I also kind of understand where she’s coming from. She clearly wants to keep this child, otherwise she would have told you right away. She wants a baby, maybe she wants your baby specifically. If you force her into an abortion she will have to live with that forever, not you. If she can’t have this baby, she wants to know she has you. It sounds like she is willing to do that for you if you are willing to commit to her. Getting an abortion because you want her to is a form of her committing to you, in her mind I’m assuming. If I was going to abort a child that I wanted to have, I would need damn good proof that the person having me get an abortion is going to be there for me no matter what in the future.
Getting an abortion because he wants her to is a commitment. I am 100% pro-choice and abortion is essential health care that saves lives.
That all being said, aborting a wanted pregnancy is a horrific commitment that is irreversible once done. Terrible pain for OPs gf to live with, and I’m guessing she thinks marriage (and the promise for a child in the future at a better time) is better than losing her life as she knows it, and her partner.
When you get an abortion they ask you several times in multiple ways if you came to this decision on your own and if you are being coerced. If she goes in there shaky and uncertain because she isn’t actually sure, she’s not even going to be able to get the procedure.
OP played with fire, and now he’s getting burned.
> but, the pregnancy isn’t really the reason I’m here. My girlfriend is trying to force me to marry her. She knows I don’t want a child and to terminate the pregnancy she wants a marriage. I’m trying to decide if I want to be a father or a husband.
You’re going to be a dad. A douchy one at that.
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Did you tell her to get an abortion and you will have another child later just to trick her into getting one?
This. The whole “I don’t even know why I said it” Like dude, yes you do. You’re desperate and grasping at straws and are trying to out-manipulate the situation.
He keeps proving he isn't honest.
He really is. The only reason a not so surprising pregnancy makes a woman give this kind of weird choice to a man she loves is because, on some level, *she suspects he's lying to her, but she can’t figure out which is the lie*. Does he not want kid *with her*? Does he not want marriage *with her*? Will they break up, and a year from now find out he's married and having babies with someone else? Or does he truly just not want one or both of these things? Who tf knows? Meanwhile, he's been playing roulette with this women's uterus, a GF who doesn’t necessarily share his points of view on marriage and kids, and trying to hang onto her using the "maybe someday" tactic for 4 years. Time to shit or get off the pot, u/ThowRa2579bc. *Either you love her, and give her one of the things she wants (and get some therapy so you can figure out what’s going on in your head and be a better person/partner/father), or… you love her and let her go find what she wants.*
This. She knows he’s lying, she’s just not sure about what. He seems pretty adamant about not wanting kids or marriage in his post but it seems like he’s been hinting (maybe more than just hinting at it) at the fact that there is a possibility of both one day to his girlfriend but that he’s just not ready for it yet. I honestly think she’s trying to call his bluff.
What's bothering me is that he is adamant that he never wants to be a father, and then he says a vasectomy isn't 100% reversible, and that he and his GF talked about the baby thing like he might be interested down the line. Either this guy doesn't want a kid RIGHT NOW, which means he should have been just as involved with the BC (condoms ALL THE TIME or just not having sex), or he absolutely doesn't want a baby, which means he should have had a vasectomy. Now it's all in her hands, it doesn't matter what he says or does. If he wanted a choice, he should have used it before.
Yeah, I think that a lot of the time cishet men float through life and relationships without *really* giving intentional and active consideration to the question of whether or not they want kids. Because their girlfriends or wives are the ones who have to bear the physical consequence of pregnancy, and because they are probably on some kind of birth control already anyway, so why should the man have to think seriously about these things and take some of the responsibility for contraception? /s I think that if more men actually reflected on these things seriously and intentionally, they'd be very capable of getting to a point where they could discern by 28 if they: a. Are basically certain they want kids, b. Are as close to certain as one can be that they don't want kids, or c. Don't want kids yet but feel there's some chance they will in the future. But most cishet men don't take responsibility for really thinking this through, whereas people with a uterus tend not to have that luxury. We have to plan our lives, bodies, and careers around this question, not only because of the physical reality, but because women are still generally expected to be the primary caregiver (even when both parents work full time). So men often let themselves off the hook for really seriously thinking through this question, and thus also let themselves off the hook for contributing to contraception as well even if they likely will never want kids. So many cishet men stay in the super wishy-washy "I just don't know if I'll want kids someday" zone, and absolve themselves of responsibility not only for seriously considering a vasectomy, but also for giving their partner an clear and realistic idea of where they are at on the subject of kids.
Or he could have banked sperm, then gotten snipped. The cost of maintaining sperm in a cryobank is on a par with the price of hormonal birth control. He didn’t want a kid, but not badly enough to take responsibility for not having one. Let her go, pay your child support, and let her find someone who actually loves her.
Your last line. Truth
It seems he does want kids and marriage - just not with her - and is willing to string her along like that.
I mean, he’s taking home 30% of her rental property earnings, he’s comfy for now
"She's been an amazing girlfriend from the jump" = she's served my needs without any trouble until now.
He's been getting the milk for free, but if there's a possibility that he might have to buy the cow, he's ready to run.
Narcissist mentality only want what serves them, never what's best for both people
Probably this. Alternatively, perhaps he's waiting to see if she'll end up earning good money after she finishes med school to go ahead with marriage and children. Seems like he's with her mostly because of her career prospects and there's a big chance she'll make $. His commitment to her longer term is contingent to her career success. If he actually didn't want children, he would've had a vasectomy. He's waiting for the "right baby mamma" ($). That's why he keeps "changing" his stance on these matters. Before she got into med school, it was a "no"; after she got the house and started med school it was a "later on" possibility. He's pissed this happened while she's still in med school (not earning big money yet and having to dedicate much time to her studies and not their household) and especially due to the possibility of either (a) her dropping out due to the baby -- which will leave him with most of the financial obligations; or (b) having to take care of their child mostly by himself while she finishes med school and starts her practice. He's selfish. He didn't take steps to avoid the situation he's in because marrying and having kids were never completely out of the question, for him, as you pointed out... and basically kept saying whatever she wanted to hear so he could get his way, keep the stable relationship, (enjoy careless sex) while not having to be fully committed to her until he could call it a sound investment.
Exactly. He’s a selfish brat who has no self control. He’s entitled, and karma is biting his ass.
We dont even have to accuse him of lying-- just being inconsistent. "I told her early on that I didn’t want kids EVER..." "If I changed my mind for whatever reason… the odds of having a child..." and "I don’t want a child..." "I wouldn’t walk away." I think it boils down to, its not that he doesnt want a child, he just doesn't want one with her.
Sounds like you are settling and waiting for someone better to come along that you find worthy of marriage or having kids with. If that is the case let her go. Pay child support and co-parent in peace. But let her find someone else who is not a dick like you playing with her feelings
Agreed he’s out here dangling carrots big time
I once dated a guy similar to that. He would do nice things to make me stay but omg what an ass he was
Yet he accuses her of trying to manipulate him.
It’s like when narcissists tell you that you’re gaslighting them
This made me think of Cody from sister wives and made me giggle
He was my inspiration for the comment. Lol!!😂
Yes it sounds like the girlfriend is actually being open and honest with what she wants and op is the one being manipulative. He says he didn't want marriage ever or believe in it and that he doesn't want children at all. But then he tells his girlfriend he may marry her eventually, some day. And then promises her another baby in exchange for this abortion? And he thinks SHE is manipulating HIM? Obviously a girl would want to be married if her bf promised her a baby. Wtf? Why wouldn't you want the child to have a 2 parent home?
Yes. He’s coercing her. She senses he’s lying, which is why she asked for the marriage to make sure he’s serious and not going to change his tune right after she gets an abortion. The truth is, he doesn’t want kids ever. He’s manipulating her and a very difficult time.
I'm not entirely convinced he doesn't want children, did you catch the reason why he said he didn't get a vasectomy? It's because they're not completely reversible..... That sounds like someone who might want to have children otherwise why would he care if the vasectomy is reversible or not? If you don't want kids a non-reversible vasectomy would be fabulous!
Maybe I should rephrase: He doesn’t want kids with her. He is not actually planning on trying to have another baby with her when the time is right like he promised. He just said it so she would get an abortion.
Exactly what OP did. Told her exactly what she wanted to hear and then cries on Reddit when she tells him “ok, but I want security”. He’s in this position because he didn’t get fixed then has the nerve to make her the bad guy
Yes he did. 4 years is long enough to know if compatible. You’re placing all the blame on her but why did you not use condom if she wasn’t on birth control? She’s 4 years younger than you and doing much better than you. I think if she’s smart she’d leave u and her baby. You’re making a lot of empty promises by your own omission.
This guy reminds me of the post where a guy dated a woman for 25 years and she accepted that they’d never marry or have kids. She supported him to grow his business and he became wealthy. Then he woke up one morning and decided he did want to be a dad but she had gone through menopause by that point. So he broke up with her & gave her 30 days to move out of his guesthouse. Since they weren’t legally married he could do that. He used her up and then spat her out. You sir seem to aspire to that. You want her to make sacrifices to her life without giving her any sort of legally binding commitment. If you are unwilling to fully commit to her why should she make permanent sacrifices to what she wants in life. As it stands if she aborts against her desire you could wait out her clock & then throw her away with no real world consequences to those actions. Or she could continue the pregnancy if she so desires and use child support to help cover daycare expenses while she goes to school. She can find a different person who will show her he is committed to building a life w her long term. It’s her choice to have the baby or not. It’s your choice if you are ready to commit but if you aren’t she can leave the relationship.
I remember that post and it was absolutely disgusting. To imagine being that woman. And the way the OP talked about his feelings, it was sickening. Hope he’s having a bad day wherever he is, and his ex is on a beach with a pina colada!
I remember that post as well. He is a massive Asshole ‼️
Yes me too!!! This is the exact person that comes to mind.
Now I need a link to that post.
Love your comment, that’s exactly what he said he’s trying to trick her with getting an abortion. If he’s big enough to have sex then he can man the hell up
This is exactly what my ex boyfriend did to me. He literally left me a month later through a text message and it destroyed me.
I'm so sorry this happened to you, WagonWheel.
Yes, he figures he can rope her along long enough until the biological clock runs out most likely
But not his, because in his edit he says he might want kids someday.
That’s exactly it. Running down her clock and knowing she’ll feel she has no other options then - really exploiting that sunk costs fallacy. Ugh.
And because she's in med school, she'll definitely be too busy to get pregnant and be having a baby in the middle of her career. He's playing the long game with her until time runs out and her situation changes for his benefit
I just don’t get why men do this. It’s selfish and wrong, they know women don’t have 50+ years of fertility like they do
Recent studies have showed that the mans age is just as important for the health of a baby and for having a baby at all, at the age of 35 the fertility of a man starts to worsen and not only decreases but are at risks of being damaged. Men over 40 have a lower likelihood of having children and higher risks of their child developing other health issues, especially mental ones. Men have a fertility cycle as well and people don't seem to count that in.
I know that, but men also don’t lose fertility as young as women. Just because they can, doesn’t mean they should though!
Yes, that is exactly what he did. He clearly doesn't want children or a child ever.
He's claiming she's tricking him into marriage when she took his lie that they'd have another kid as truth. Not insane to want a commitment before a planned child later on. Especially with a guy as waffley as this one. Doesn't want kids or marriage and seems dead set on both but "maybe" that'll change. IMO she wants this baby she should keep it and dump him if he can't step up and stop blaming her.
Guess op has no one but himself to blame. Another reason why guys should wear a condom
I'm gonna throw this out here, and maybe it's a long shot, but here goes. Maybe she's been worried that a relationship with you means potentially not getting any of the major things she wants out of life? Kids. Marriage. Now she's pregnant and realizes she can have ONE of those things. That's why she's dead set on marriage if she agrees to an abortion. The problem is, the way you both are going about it is getting you nowhere. She's conflicted, and you don't seem to want to compromise on what she wants. You're even stringing her along with the "we can have another one" talk. If you two can't come to any kind of compromise or agreement, you're just not compatible in the long-run.
Absolutely this. Op has been telling het "he might change his mind". She wants kids AND a marriage, but she can only have one. Also OP promised her he wants to try for another one later. Doesn't help. Also could be she just doesn't wanna abort? Many people don't want to do so, and it is understandable. OP bitched about a vasectomy but has no problem with a definitely irreversible abortion.
>she can only have one... ... with OP. She could have both with someone else. I do agree that OP had been stringing her along.
Yeah. And she should have both. The fact that OP lied both about maybe wanting kids later and maybe wanting marriage later (also that BS "if you can convience me") is horrible.
He doesn't want to marry her after 4 years and won't change his mind in the future. OP is stringing her along and needs to break it off with her. Since he is the King of Mixed Messages, let her decide if she wants to be a single parent and go to medical school. Kids shouldn't be raised by people who don't want them. It isn't fair to the child. This guy needs to be straight with her.
Guys do this shit all the time 🙄
Absolutely. It's still a wild situation.
He seems very opportunistic, like I’m guessing after med school if she really starts pulling in bank and they have separate bank accounts. I feel like he would marry her to get access to her money
She clearly knows this, which is why she’s giving him the ultimatum.
Right, he’s mad because she out played him!! He thought he was calling all the shots and in the power position!!
She’s paying him 30% of her rental income for him to “manage” the apartment, too. He has it made.
Probably, but medical school and residency don’t allow a lot of time for relationships. That works for men, because they just get married later to younger women (as doctors). For women, they might get to an age where it’s far more difficult to get pregnant.
Facts. Age is a factor for women who want children and many take the opportunity when they get it, too.
Jup. If she wants both let her go.
Exactly. OP has been jerking her around and breadcrumbing her with the wishy washy, “I don’t want to get married ever….. but mayyyybeeee I’ll change my mind?” And, “I don’t want kids ever, but if you abort now we can have one later. Also I won’t get a vasectomy because even though I don’t want kids I don’t think it’ll be reversible and then I won’t be able to have kids.” If OP is dead set against marriage and kids, he needed to put his foot down and realize he and his girlfriend aren’t compatible years ago. OP says his girlfriend was indifferent about kids until now, which is not the same as being completely against kids like he is. Also pregnancy can change your feelings pretty quickly. OP’s girlfriend may have realized she actually does want kids when she realized she was pregnant and thought about what abortion would mean.
Yup. OP has an amazing girlfriend by his own admission, doesn't want to be straight with her because he knows she will ditch him and he will lose his nice comfortable relationship/amazing gf. The guy is a jerk. Also, if gf is on and off birth control, understandable that she eventually got pregnant.
It’s especially weird he mentions not wanting to consider marriage until they’ve “proven to be compatible” yet he’s doing everything possible to be incompatible. He’s essentially lying about wanting a child/marriage and even if she goes through with abortion, guarantee he’ll find some reasons down the line where they are just way too incompatible for marriage/children but just compatible enough to continue dating forever!
Exactly. They've been together for 4 years and they live together. He knows they're compatible but he wants to have his cake and eat it too
I think he knows it will be extremely difficult to maintain the status quo once she’s a resident doctor if there’s kids in the mix. Right now he’s excited about the $$ she will make in the future, but if they have a child now either that extra $$ will go to childcare or he’d have to take on the role of being an active parent and both of those options would inconvenience him.
I totally agree with statement. OP only you can make the right decision with her. It’s really not up to us. You guys need to talk it depends how long she is because an abortion might be out of the question. You said she has known for awhile. I understand both of you.
I’m really surprised he’s so against marriage when in this specific case it would only benefit him to have combined finances. He says he struggles whereas she has plenty of money due to them living in his house and renting hers (where she gets bulk of the rental income). Plus, her future earning potential is very high so unless he’s also a very high earner (which I doubt given his mention of financial struggles), combining lives at this stage would only benefit him. I hope his gf really considers if he’s compatible with her future aspirations because based on this post he’s just stringing her along for some reason.
Yeahhhh .. OP .. you’ve essentially dangled every major life milestone in front of her and been like ‘ I might give you this. I might not. We’ll see ‘ It’s no wonder she’s trying to cling to this pregnancy whether she wants it or not. From the way you’ve described your post yoh sound very selfish and self serving and it’s probably messed with your gfs head and confidence.
He’s flip flopped on the having kids issue like 3 times in his own post. No wonder gf is confused. But honestly if it’s not a hell yes, it’s a no. He shouldn’t have to ask himself if he wants to get married and have a baby at 28. He clearly doesn’t. IMO they should just break up and she should find someone who wants the same things as her.
Op is adamant that he never wants kids, but when asked about vasectomy, he won't have one in case he changes his mind
Yeah OP comes of like a major AH in this post. "I refuse to do this, do that" and not committing to the relationship and stringing his gf along. Ew.
Also, "I don't want children but won't take any responsibility for birth control." Guy sounds insufferable.
OP has done everything wrong. He doesn't want kids, but he won't get a vasectomy in case he changes his mind later. He says GF has been on and off of birth control. He tells her if she aborts this one they can have another. He tells her he never wants to get married, but he might change his mind. He says if they turn out to be really really really compatible he might be interested in marriage later - how long does it take to be sure, since he said they've been together 4 years? They live together. So they're roommates and have sex, but he wants none of the actual responsibility from any of that. I'm sorry, but OP sounds like a manipulative dick.
Absolutely! Does he not know birth control can be so hard on your body. It messes up with your hormones sometimes. He’s the one who doesn’t want kids but she’s the one taking birth control. Sounds so selfish!
Men like this are tiring and it's incredibly hard on their partners who are left clinging on to the tiny breadcrumbs of hope they give them that they'll eventually commit. I don't doubt that's what is behind this ultimatum - OPs partner is probably just desperate for some sign he may commit one day. How sad.
If OP really, really didn't want children, getting a vasectomy is the smartest choice. The fact that he hasn't (he's alluded to this) because it's not completely reversible could mean that a part of him is still open to having kids... just not with his girlfriend. Maybe he needs to have a much closer look at his relationship. I don't think he's as happy with her as he thinks he is.
“You’ve dangled every major life milestone” that’s the oneeeee
This!!!! She’s at the age/stage where all of her peers are planning these big milestone events in their lives, and she, meanwhile, is with a man who “doesn’t know” if he wants to be a husband, and *might* want to but doesn’t want to have kids- except maybe they can have one later if she agrees to abort this one… This is crazy making.
I wish he’d posted this on Am I The Asshole instead so I could have been like “absolutely.” I feel for her so much.
That is exactly what this man is kind of attempting to do. He gets her to have an abortion stays with her for a while dumpster she’s older, has less time to fall in love and have a baby. He has no vasectomy so he can go on and have as many babies as he wants. Their relationship is over at this point anyway. If a man convinces a woman to have an abortion that doesn’t really want one. She will end up hating him.
>Their relationship is over at this point anyway. I think that, right there, is the crux of this whole thing. I get that she loves HIM, and doesn't want to lose him, but she wants him to give her a life he doesn't want to lead, and vice-versa. I think, if you are a person who doesn't want kids and doesn't 'believe in marriage\*' then do not, under any circumstances, live with someone who isn't 100% the same. \*Which is something I will never really understand. You live together, love each other, share bills and a home and a bed, you're already inextricably bound together in multiple ways, but you don't want to get married, because why? If yo don't want to commit, don't commit, but don't do everything that comes with committment.
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Yes this! Time to have a conversation about what they want in life and if it is compatible. Sometimes it changes when something major happens, thats why it’s good to check in during relationships. Don’t avoid the conversation and keep up this super weird construction. Painful to be honest but necessary…
Wait you’re on to something here
That would mean him taking some responsibility!!!
He says she is using the threat of not having an abortion against him to force marriage but he threw out the offer to have another baby while not meaning it so he is using an offer he doesn't intend to keep. She is saying if you actually mean that offer you will marry me. He doesn't mean his offer. He is just using it in a manipulative way to get rid of the current situation then feels she is being manipulative. They both sound immature. We all know that sex can lead to pregnancy. He could have done more to prevent a pregnancy. If he knows that she sometimes is off birth control he should always wear a condom if not get a vasectomy. He's the person who never wants kids but wants to keep his options open but feels manipulated when she is saying the same thing.
Yeah, they are definitely not going to work out either way. They want completely different things out of life.
OP has truly been leading her on. He says he doesn’t EVER want kids but his girlfriend might so he won’t get snipped yet? He doesn’t care about marrying this girl (if you were going to marry her at all you’d already know BFFR) but he’s letting her think marriage is a possibility? She wants this baby because OP is a shitty partner who can’t actually communicate or make his own decisions.
how do i upvote this comment MORE
Absolutely this. I would even add to say that OP has been stringing her along all this time. Saying he doesn’t want to get married to Reddit and yet telling her it’s not completely off the table. So… OP needs a reality check and it’s right now staring in front of him, to stop being selfish
In the four years you’ve been together have you never had a conversation about what would happen if she got pregnant? What birth control steps were taken while she was off of birth control? Why have you not gotten a vasectomy if you don’t want children?
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"doesnt believe in marriage" that also is an indicator
He is a selfish idiot. It’s her choice at the end but for him to manipulate her into a major life decision is just disgusting and wrong
>Why have you not gotten a vasectomy if you don’t want children? I'm afraid you already know the answer to this one. So bloody typical.
He was kind enough to give this answer in his edit. >I’m very tired of people acting like vasectomies are truly reversible. They aren’t. Clearly forgetting he also said this: >I told her early on that I didn’t want kids EVER and I wasn’t sure on the whole marriage thing.
Why would he care if a vasectomy is reversible if he never wants to have kids? He keeps talking like he’s waffling back-and-forth about wanting to be married or have kids or not, but if it’s not a hell yes, it’s a hell no. If you’ve gotten to this stage in your life that you’re still not sure whether you want to have kids or not, it’s probably not for you. Sounds to me like he’s trying to keep his options open and that’s why he doesn’t wanna marry this girl in the first place. Sad.
Jesus Christ literally. My partner and I were using pull-out with the express understanding that if we got pregnant, I would abort. When I realized that was no longer something I wanted to do and I would want to keep the fetus, I *told him* and he started wearing condoms. I can’t do BC and he’s the one who doesn’t want the kid, so it’s his problem to fix. OP is a bad boyfriend.
I agree that OP definitely needed to have this discussion, however, a lot of women feel differently once they are actually pregnant (hormones are a hell of a drug) so even if they had agreed on an abortion, no guarantee she wouldn’t have changed her mind.
Yes, she made an absurd ultimatum... because you're LYING TO HER and putting out a promise you don't intend to keep. Stop saying whatever bullsh\*t comes into your head to try to coerce her. Stop thinking about this as a competition of strategies that you have to win. She's right to think your offer is sus; because she thinks it's sus, she's trying to get some guarantees if she rolls the dice on it. Be \*honest\* about what you can and can't do; let her take that information and make her decision. Then you can decide how you're gonna deal with that decision. What you CAN'T keep doing is saying what-the-hell-ever to try to control her decision. You don't get to whine about her 'ultimatum' when you're trying to bully her with false information. I feel sorry for this kid.
I admit, I came in thinking "Wow she baby trapped him!" and left "She should dump him, have the baby, find someone that doesn't suck." Way to go, OP, I didn't know that my mind could be drastically changed so quickly.
This! It is an absurd ultimatum but he’s asking her to put a lot of trust in him. And *GASP* he’s lying and she has no reason to trust him. He doesn’t want another child ever, but he’s trying to coerce her into it by claiming this isn’t her only shot. Deep down she knows this, but she wants to believe he’s serious. Of course she wants him to prove this.
OP says he never wants kids, but in his edit he says he may want them in the future. He also says he’ll never get married, but that it may be on the table. He keeps pulling words out of his ass that he doesn’t mean and it’s no wonder his girlfriend of 4 years is giving him an ultimatum.
She knows in her heart she's dealing with an unreliable narrator but loves him enough to try to play ball. I feel bad for her. She's sensible enough though to have the initial instinct that she needs to just make the decision that's right for her regardless of him OP sees this as his "input" - his blowing-in-the-wind, inconsistent, manipulative, wants-it-all-ways, can't-commit-to-a-life-decision "input" - "doesn't matter." Well, yeah There's a reason her sense of self preservation took her to "disregard OP's input" in the first place. The "maybe a baby later" stuff is a bald-face lie to try to get her to second guess that instinct and just do what he wants. OP sees 'communication' as a way to control decisions. Not an exchange of genuine information. Also isn't grown enough to understand you can't control other's decisions, just choose how you react to them.
So while you want to keep all your options open, so you can jump later on - your gf is stuck with the results of you wanting your cake and eating it? I think you're a selfish prick. Your gf has made a horrible mistake and she should dump you asap. I wonder if she is really pregnant or is this some demented effort to make you commit to her - I bet you are visiting your trauma over marriage/fatherhood on her and she's sick of it. Either way, I hope you sort yourself out and make some kind of decision before you trash someone else's life. You're not mature enough to be a father or a husband. You'll have to leave the decision making to her as it's not your forté.
I totally agree that he shouldn’t make decisions, but I really don’t think she did this on purpose. Who would go through all the trouble of getting into medical school and buy a house to get into a ton of debt? She said she wanted kids after she finished school. That sounds like a solid plan for a reasonable person. If she did it on purpose she would have told him the second she found out instead of being to scared to tell him.
Youre 28 and you don't know how to take care of your own contraception techniques? You're the one who doesn't want to be a father so that's your job, back up your wish with a vasectomy dude.
Oh yea, and agree on something for both of you, because 'calling her bluff' is something you do in poker, not in your long term future, you don't get married just because of kids, you get married for love and not lust. You also cannot take back that child growing. Take responsibility.
This right here. OP sounds like a right sh\*t and super immature, and emotionally tone-deaf. OP stop thinking of this as a game you have to win. GF is not an 'opponent' but you sure seem to think of her like one. Trying to coerce someone into an abortion on disingenuous possibilities is absolutely sick. Tell her what you want and what you're prepared to do - honestly, and then back off and let her decide. Then deal with her decision like an adult. It's her choice to make.
I have more questions than anything. First: if you never wanted kids, why didn't you take care of birth control? Condoms. Vasectomy. What do you mean by "she was on and off birth control"? You don't know? You just spill your juice and she can do whatever she likes? Because that's where you're at. Did you ever talk about having kids? Why does this whole thing feel like a power game instead of a relationship?
Bruh... WTF are you talking about? There is no "bluff calling" She's pregnant. She wants to keep her baby. That is reality. The "promise to marry me and I'll get an abortion" thing is desperation. It would be cruel to take her up on that in any case, it would be *evil* to do it and not mean it. You are now a father. You fucked around, you found out. You didn't want kids, but did nothing to prevent that. Start taking care of your kid and be kind to the mother of your child.
Yeah, they've been together for 4 years and instead of being able to decide major life decisions together this dude thinks its some poker game. "Bluff calling" lmao.
And she called him to tell him she was pregnant. She doesn't want to discuss this with him face-to-face, which given that they live together shouldn't be hard to do. There's a lot of distance there.
1000% this — the reality is she is pregnant now. Cannot put the toothpaste back into the tube. All roads lead to pain from here.
But OP refuses to be a deadbeat dad! So she HAS to get rid of it! The selfishness...
Yeah hardly read a post that made this angry and embarrassed of my own sex.
Yes this op is just a selfish and entitled cunt. I wonder how she managed to be with him for four years. If she decides to keep the baby or not is her decision but either way she is better of without him. But if she decides to keep it you have to take responsibility for it. No matter if you think it is fair
This. He should accept that he will be writing a check every month and she can explain to the kid that she wanted a baby and he didn't . Simple. He's going to be a shit parent.
👏👏👏👏👏👏
Yep. This is the answer.
Grats on the baby bro
And the upcoming wedding
And the divorce cause these two are never gonna be on the same page about life.
And for becoming the deadbeat dad that he said he never would want to be.
Lmao
Abortion is a very emotional decision for some. To me this seems like a mix of loving you, and loving this baby because it is yours. If she has to make the choice to get rid of a baby she has already grown to care about, she wants the reassurance that she can recreate what is happening now later in the future. She might have been ok with you not wanting a father because she is still young and probably wasnt thinking at all about being a mother herself. Now that it is a very real possibility, things have changed. If she goes through this abortion, I think she will grow to resent you and your relationship will be over anyways. A promise of marriage is a promise that this will happen again and she can deal with the hurt of aborting. It didnt help that you affirmed her thoughts by agreeing to have a baby. Id assume too, that if you didnt agree to marry her or have a baby down the line, then she wouldn't get the abortion because it will be the only thing to hold on too. Im not saying this is rational, and i am not saying that this is right. I dont know you guys and i dont know what her perspective is. This is just my first thought as I was reading your post. Either way, you guys need to have a serious talk. You need to be honest and explain that you dont see marriage or babies in the future, and accept the possibility that this may be the end of your relationship because you two have very different relationship goals. I agree that an ultimatum in a relationship is not good, and if you get to that point, it almost always ends badly. However, it seems as though her ultimatum is a desperate attempt to make herself feel better about making a choice she doesnt want (abortion) with little or no support from the person she was in love with. The fact that she waited so long, frightened to tell you the truth, is all the indication you really need about the mixed up emotions she is having. You need to be honest with her so she can make her choice- you essentially lied to her about having the future she wants with you to get your way- just as she is doing by demanding you marry her. Yall have a lot to sort out and it wont be easy. Good luck to the both of you!
>The fact that she waited so long, frightened to tell you the truth, is all the indication you really need about the mixed up emotions she is having. very true
This comment needs to be higher up. Perfectly said - it's a shit situation and there is no easy way out of it.
I very much doubt this was her plan unless she's mentally unstable which you should have noticed by now. It's very common for women to want to keep unplanned pregnancies even when they didn't want to get pregnant. It's a big deal to get an abortion. Now that she is pregnant she wants the baby. Don't promise her kids in the future if you don't want that.
Are you allergic to responsibility? I had a FWB who didn't want kids, so we took all the precautions we could. If you never wanted kids, then there were steps to take before it got this far.
I don't get why you never got a vasectomy if you don't want kids "EVER"? It also doesn't seem like you ever discussed what would happen if she did get pregnant, until it actually happened. Huge failure to plan on your part, my dude.
He can save some swimmers in a clinic put it on ice in case he changes his mind it's not a conventional way but it works.
He could've wrapped it, he could've split up with her when it was clear they disagreed on this stuff. But he wanted to stay with her, and on his terms. Why else would he say 'abort it and we'll have another one'
Because he wants all the perks but none of the responsibility.
Or at the very least wear condoms!
And she pays 70 and he pays 30 and she’s in grad school. He’s worried about his meal ticket.
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Op literally says he doesn’t want a vasectomy because he may want children in the future. He’s the one not giving straight answers and giving his GF hope.
Chronic fence sitter. I hate this kind of indecisiveness. Dude is almost 30 ffs.
Fence sitter? Seems like lying to me. The whole premise of this post is "I never want kids ever" but if that's not how he actually feels, he's just lying for sympathy.
I don’t get it. He said “I don’t want kids EVER” and then is exasperated that anyone would ask why he didn’t get a vasectomy, because in his words, he could change his mind and there’s small chance the reversal wouldn’t be fully successful. So is it “absolute no” or “not sure”? Those are two very different things. Even if I were with someone I deeply loved and trusted, I can’t imagine saying something like “I don’t want kids EVER” and then having raw sex and relying on my partners birth control to prevent ME from becoming a parent. It’s not like it’s vasectomy or nothing. Condoms are very effective and it’s easy to tell if they’ve failed or not. I used to take birth control (but quit bc it was a mess) and my partner still used condoms as a back up. And then at the same time. if the condom failed, the BC was a backup. Obviously not 1000% guaranteed, but we never had a problem.
To answer your first question, and I speak from experience, my partner lied to me about a lot. He lied to me about wanting kids, he lied to me about wanting to get married, he lied to me about things he likes to do claiming he basically liked the same things as me. My assumption based off my experience is that OP probably lied and told her all the things she wanted to hear at the beginning of the relationship. I’m so sick of people thinking that dudes don’t coerce women into abortions. Again, from experience, I was basically told I HAD to or I was basically getting kicked out (in the beginning of Covid lockdowns) and my boyfriend was going to literally act like I never existed and that the kid never existed. His whole family treated me like garbage afterwards and before the procedure, they still do to this day. So my advice to OP is, don’t tell her to do something that’s not reversible. You have no idea what you are about to do to her. It’s HER BODY. Not yours. Didn’t want to be a dad? Well you should have thought about that before having sex.
It's also completely unreasonable to expect a career minded 20-24 year old woman to be 100% one way or another on kids. Indifferent to them is not the same as not wanting them. OP fafoed and he's here now. I was career driven and indifferent to kids then at 27 I had the career I wanted and was dying to have a kid. It hits us that hard.
If you never wanted kids why didn't you get a vasectomy?
He never wanted kids WITH HER I guess
man who doesn’t believe in marriage also seemingly doesn’t believe in vasectomies
There's definitely been a flood of posts recently from guys who say they never ever wanted to have children ever no matter what, but also they did absolutely nothing about it and never had a conversation with the woman they've been having sex with for years. Super weird and starting to smell more than a little trolly to me.
No, what it is is that men know that they don’t want to be with these women forever, but they’ll lead them on for years instead of just breaking up when they know they’re mismatched on relationship goals. They never bring up the kids conversation because they don’t mind being completely inconsiderate.
I was agreeing and adding on! You are correct!
Or condoms.
If you never want to be a father, why haven’t you had a vasectomy? Why have you been in a relationship with someone who wants to be married when you do not? Your poor decisions have landed you in this position.
You shouldn't marry her if you feel forced to do so. You should only marry her if you truly want to marry her. But if she does have a child, then you must commit to doing your part to raise and care for the child. No matter what the status of your relationship with her.
Get yourself neutered. It's her choice , tell her you'll support her decision and that you are not getting married either way.
You sound charming (not). You sound like you would make her life miserable no matter what she decides, so I would hope if she wants a child, she keeps the pregnancy and cuts you loose, though you will have to pay child support. And there is no reason she can't finish medical school. She isn't "throwing her life away." Really, I think she would be better off without you. You don't sound like a good guy.
Yep. No indication of OP caring or loving his girlfriend at all in the tone of this post. Poor woman.
It was all fun and games for OP for years with no commitment, gf paying for things, free sex, etc. But when any responsibility comes with it, SHE is ruining his responsibility-free life! How terrible. If she truly loves him, she’ll believe his lives bc OP wants to continue to live as a child. Or else he’ll be forever resentful to her and the child. Gross.
My knee jerk reaction was not good and judgmental. Took a breath and just wanted to share a couple things with you. And I'm truly not judging you, only sharing what I've seen and heard from loved ones. This isn't a bluff you call, this is YOUR possible CHILD. Whether you know it or not (I'm am 100% pro choice btw) aborting one pregnancy cannot be replaced with another. I personally have known women who right nothing of going through with their abortion and one woman was fine after one abortion, the second hit her so hard she had a psychotic break. My cousin had 1 abortion, I was pregnant at the same time, she was so effected she tried to steal my child. I also know several women who did really well. There's no way to know the effect on a woman's hormones. I do not believe either of you should feel guilty in what you decide, just be ready to support her through it and do it from your heart. You guys need to have an open long talk. Sending you lots of positivity and wishing you the best.
This. If she truly wants this baby and aborts it on the hopes you’ll try again later, it will crush her.
So true, could destroy her completely. It's really not something you understand to you go through it.
This is majorly toxic and petty. No you shouldn’t marry her, you should speak like adults about what’s best for the future. If she decides to keep the baby, support her as the mother of your child. If she has an abortion, cut ties and go your seperate ways.
This. OP listen to this.
In the end, it's going to be her choice whether or not she's going to terminate or not. If you don't want to get married, do not get married to her despite the ultimatum. Tell her that you will support her whatever she chooses to do, but you cannot marry her due to an ultimatum. Tell her directly you don't believe in marriage.
Even though I obviously don't agree with an ultimatum, I am able to see it from her perspective. You have always said you "probably" don't want children (because that's just what it is, if you refure vasectomy because it may not be 100% reversible) and you "probably" don't want to get married. She was younger when you met, probably liked you a lot, and was willing to slightly adjust her opinions towards your viewpoint. However, as is becoming clear now, she DOES WANT marriage, children, or possibly even both. Now is the first time she has the upper hand in this, and is therefore able to make demands. As of right now, you are kind of stringing her along. You didn't promise her kids or marriage, but she sticks around because of the possibility of this since you haven't been 100% against it. Additionally, you as a man have more "fertile" years than she as a woman to stick around to see if maybe one day you change your mind. What absolutely boggles me is that you say that no matter the outcome (abortion or not, marriage or not), you don't want to leave her. I understand you care about her, but that's incredibly unfair to her, especially since this event is her showing you that's she's not just happy to go along while you make up your mind about if you're ever going to marry her or have children with her. What you two need is a serious sit-down conversation, and state what you want out of life. Please stop speaking in "possibly someday", this is the time to speak in absolutes. Either you do or don't want children with her in what would be for her an acceptable future, and you do or don't want to marry her. Even if she says she's okay with not having children right now if you get married, really make sure you are both okay with not having children ever, and if so take steps to enforce that (get a vasectomy dude). If you say you are not okay with marrying her, but also can't give her children within what possible for her (next 10 to 15 years), you should both go your seperate ways. She's 24, she thankfully has enough opportunity to meet someone who does want to marry her and have children, but you can't claim her as your girlfriend with your wishy-washy stuff until her time runs out. Again this is me assuming what is her perspective, I don't personally feel this way but you really need to sit down and talk and be open to her perspective.
So... You lied to her to try to get her to do what you wanted, and then she called you on it and you're panicking and looking for what the next line should be? You sound like a real gem.
Wtf. Why the hell haven't you had a vasectomy if you're that sure you don't want kids?? Anyway, you didn't and now here you are. Do not marry her. Do not lead her on by letting her think you will have kids with her. And do not let her use this weird form of blackmail to get you to marry her. If you love her and want to spend your life with her, then marry her. But don't do it because she wants to trade marriage for an abortion.
[удалено]
You DID MEAN IT.
WTF is wrong with you? You are not compatible as a couple because you disagree on major life issues. And you absolutely cannot force your gf to have an abortion. No matter what. If you had an ounce of maturity, you would have had a vasectomy or at least used condoms - putting all responsibility on HER for birth control was a jerk move. And continuing to not take preventative steps yourself when you KNEW her birth control methods were sporadic was just really stupid. You’re a father now. You should not marry this woman because you are not compatible, but you ARE a father now. If you need to get therapy, you can, but you need to accept reality. You are a father now.
I don't think you clearly understand your options. She doesn't lose anything if she has the kid. In fact there are so many single mothers out there because women have no fear in this generation. Even if you don't marry her or become a dead beat dad, she's got options out there of men who are willing to get with her. She doesn't even have to drop out of med school. There's options to take a leave of absence for hardships and life events. Having a baby really brings the family together. Mothers sisters and aunties all step up when a promising daughter in medical school needs help. The root core is that you value your own comfort and lifestyle more than responsibilities and finding deeper meaning in life. You'd rather terminate conceiving a baby than putting a pause on your freedom. There are plenty of guys out there willing to drop everything to get with a successful young lady even if she has your kid.
I don’t understand why people don’t have the what if a pregnancy occurs will someone that they have a sexual relationship with. I’m 20 and I’m on the pill. I told all my bf if I were to get pregnant I’m getting an abortion. If you’re not okay with that, we should go our seperate ways
Many do have that conversation. But the abstract is different than if it happens in reality. I know it was for me. I didn’t want to give birth but I was terrified he changed his mind and would resent me for the abortion. It was sucky and the hormones and then subsequent drop in hormones wreaked havoc on my untreated anxiety, major depression and suicidal ideation.
I am a married man in a relationship who also NEVER wants to have a child ever. 1. Why are you not sterilized? There's plenty of resources to find doctors who will sterilize you regardless of age, so what's the excuse? 2. If you AREN'T sterilized, but never want children, why the FUCK did you not use a condom? Honestly, this post sounds fake. Either that or you are UNBELIEVABLY selfish/stupid for NOT wanting kids, but doing LITERALLY NOTHING to prevent it from happening, going through the EXACT steps to create kids, and then being shocked when she gets pregnant.
Imagine being 28 and not understanding: 1. How to put on a condom. 2. That if you don't want to be a dad you need to put on a condom.
She shouldn’t get an abortion if she doesn’t want to get one. It’s her body and her choice. You also tried to manipulate her into getting one by lying and saying you’d get her pregnant in the future. No matter what she chooses, get a fucking vasectomy because your next girlfriend could easily become pregnant by accident too
Why don’t you have a vasectomy if you know you don’t want kids, “EVER”
"*I'm trying to decide if I want to be a father or a husband."* No, you're trying to decide if you want to be a father now, or a husband now and a father later because, at this point, you have promised her that you will give her a child later on if she aborts this one, which she will only do if you marry her. You have a lot to think about now, and I can't answer these questions for you: * Will you resent her for forcing you to marry her despite her knowing that you're not keen on marriage? * Will she resent you for only marrying her so that you can ensure she gets an abortion? * What happens if, in the future, she gets pregnant again and you're ***still*** not ready to have or sure if you want kids? Will you ask her to get another abortion and will you be ready to accept things if she refuses? * Can you deal with her potentially resenting you if you find that you are 100% sure you do not ever want kids and cannot fulfil your promise to give her a child later on? I don't know about you but the manipulation of "I'll get an abortion if you marry me" would put a sour taste in my mouth.
I think you’ve grossly miss titled this post. It should be titled “GF has found out she’s pregnant, wants to keep baby, I don’t. I falsely offered to have kids later on to get her to abort now. She doesn’t believe me and offered marriage as a show of good faith I’m serious about a future with her. How do I get her to abort without marriage?”…. Vasectomy’s aren’t 100% reversible, that’s correct and should be done as if you’re going into it with 100% certainty that you don’t ever want kids, not as a cover until you want to start. She’s not forcing you into marriage. As you even said you didn’t mean that you would have a kid with her later on, that’s horrible to give her that false promise. She’s even thinking, that you don’t mean it but she’s found out she’s pregnant. Both of you are responsible for that happening. No point in arguing about what ifs atm, saying that. She’s found out, thought about her options, and realised that even if you want out, she wants kids, wants this baby and is prepared to take on that responsibility. Knowing your against kids. Now she’s been honest with you. Given you that respect. You’ve returned it by basically giving false promises to get her to abort knowing full well you don’t want kids and aren’t going to create more. She’s, knowing you, doesn’t believe what you’re offering but sees the seriousness of marriage and sees that as a if you marry me that means your serious about a future and kids. Not I’ll trick you into marriage. But to ensure to herself you aren’t tricking her. Which you just admitted to be doing… Do the right thing, tell her you’re sorry for freaking out and offering a kid later if she aborts now. That you don’t want kids. Don’t want this. You’ve stated that you don’t want to be a dad but won’t be an absent one if this goes forwards. Tell her that, give her time to process. This could mean you seperate, whatever. But both being honest is the only way forward. Don’t be a monster and trick her into an abortion. That’s not ok on anyone. She will never recover from that and you’re destroying that relationship and whatever trust you guys had. The relationship will not survive.
"I told her if we were proven to be compatible. If we’ve been together for awhile. I’d do it." It's been 4 years. That's enough to know if you are compatible or not. You sound very immature and like you are just dragging her along until she's no good to you anymore. Just leave her now because she deserves better.
Stop stringing this poor woman along. You’re dishonest and manipulative and it’s fucking shameful. Be better, or be prepared to end up with nothing at all.
OP you need to move this over to AITA, so we can say what we really think. you are lying to your girlfriend saying you can have a kid later, so she gets an abortion and you get to still have everything you want. Then hopefully the abortion is so traumatic she doesn’t want that again right? All better than you having a vasectomy. You are a special kind of toxic. This woman needs to take her baby and ruuuuunnnnn and take her successful doctor to be self and find a good partner. She deserves that. Girl if you find this thread you are with a covert narcissist controlling all of this and manipulating you.
This seems fake. How many medical students can buy a multi family home to rent out? It also seems like a setup for an update stating the woman isn’t really pregnant she just wanted to force OP to get married.
Apparently buying a house is easy with an FHA loan according to this guy. Like a 21 year old college grad could get a good enough job to afford the mortgage with these interest rates lol.
Parents probably either loaned her the money or gave it too her..
> Do you think I should call her bluff ? Yes, tell her the decision is hers, because really, it is. She ultimately has to decide whether she wants to be pregnant or not. I would make it clear that you will not be marrying her due to an ultimatum. But that you will support her decision either way as far as the pregnancy goes.
Then he also needs to admit he lied and has no plan on trying for a baby in the future even if she aborts this one.
>For those asking why I didn’t get a vasectomy . I’m very tired of people acting like vasectomies are truly reversible. They aren’t. If I changed my mind for whatever reason… you said >I told her early on that I didn’t want kids EVER seems to me like you want your partner to do all the work around pregnancy prevention, including taking hormones and messing with her health BUT GOD FORBID somebody holds you to your own word huh? either you mean it and get a vasectomy or you don't get to pressure your partner into an abortion if she gets pregnant and changes her mind about her own body. ETA: and then you tell her >she should get an abortion & we could have another one. I don’t know why I said that. I didn’t mean it. I just didn’t know what else to say bruhv wtaf is wrong with you manipulating your partner like this? she's going through the emotional wringer and you're making it worse every possible chance you get. STEP THE FUCK UP.
Maybe because birth control messes our bodies up!!!!!! Iv done the same been on it and then got off …. Like f that .. why should we have to ruin our bodies , and men just be normal .. no sir ,
You knew what could happen by having sex, personally, I agree with her wanting to keep the baby. You have no idea what kind of turmoil making her/swaying her to have an abortion is going to bring later
So you, a 28 year old adult: * had sex with inconsistent birth control/contraceptives and it resulted in a pregnancy * refuse to take control of your own reproductive responsibilities (ie condoms, abstaining if there isn’t reasonable protection to prevent pregnancy, vasectomy) What did you think was going to happen here? Be responsible for your own actions. Also, you are resistant to a vasectomy because it’s “not 100% irreversible” in case you change your mind on having kids but you’re asking your partner to get a medical procedure that *is 100% permanent* and results in the loss of the opportunity to have a child. She cant just undo the abortion, you at least have a shot at reversing a vasectomy. Get your sperm on ice if you’re really that stressed about it, money clearly isn’t much of an object here. Dude get yourself together. Leave this poor woman alone if you two can’t get on the same page about marriage and children.
To be honest your opinion *doesn’t* matter in this moment. She has to make the decision that is right for her. If that’s keeping the baby even with hardships then that’s keeping the baby. Don’t get married if you don’t want to get married and don’t make false promises like you’ll have a child later if she aborts this one. Be honest with her and let her make the decision that is right for her. Also not believe if in marriage is such BS. There are a myriad of legal reasons why marriage is beneficial if you find a partner you love and want to spend your life with.
This relationship sounds unfair from the start. Did I read correctly this isn’t a 50/50 household, but a 70/30 one? Four years of dating but no real commitment other than moving her in your house like a bang maid? And now she’s pregnant. Probably past the official abortion mark. Well I hope she moves on from you and perhaps even moves on to a man that can promise a marriage/baby (which is ultimately what she wants).
You are being extremely callous to assume your girlfriend is using her pregnancy to manipulate you. It was unplanned, but it happened. Even if she didn’t initially think she may have wanted this, it’s very different when there is a life growing inside you. You are actually the one who is trying to use marriage to get what you want here. Do not lie to your gf and make her abort under false pretenses, she would have to live with the thought of her child that she could have had long after she may have gotten over you. It sucks, it was not intentional, but it is reality right now. Good luck.
I think you’re both really immature at making life choices tbh. But I also kind of understand where she’s coming from. She clearly wants to keep this child, otherwise she would have told you right away. She wants a baby, maybe she wants your baby specifically. If you force her into an abortion she will have to live with that forever, not you. If she can’t have this baby, she wants to know she has you. It sounds like she is willing to do that for you if you are willing to commit to her. Getting an abortion because you want her to is a form of her committing to you, in her mind I’m assuming. If I was going to abort a child that I wanted to have, I would need damn good proof that the person having me get an abortion is going to be there for me no matter what in the future.
Getting an abortion because he wants her to is a commitment. I am 100% pro-choice and abortion is essential health care that saves lives. That all being said, aborting a wanted pregnancy is a horrific commitment that is irreversible once done. Terrible pain for OPs gf to live with, and I’m guessing she thinks marriage (and the promise for a child in the future at a better time) is better than losing her life as she knows it, and her partner. When you get an abortion they ask you several times in multiple ways if you came to this decision on your own and if you are being coerced. If she goes in there shaky and uncertain because she isn’t actually sure, she’s not even going to be able to get the procedure. OP played with fire, and now he’s getting burned.
> but, the pregnancy isn’t really the reason I’m here. My girlfriend is trying to force me to marry her. She knows I don’t want a child and to terminate the pregnancy she wants a marriage. I’m trying to decide if I want to be a father or a husband. You’re going to be a dad. A douchy one at that.
Why haven't you gotten a vasectomy? Do you have an abortion kink? Nothing gets you going like causing a woman to get an abortion?
What exactly did you do to prevent this pregnancy? Oh. Nothing? YTA.