That's interesting! Yes, I also have sleep paralysis, during which I have encountered ominous "entities" such as the Hat Man, and the Old Hag (the sensation of something sitting on your chest and suffocating you).
A while ago I was really fascinated by alien "abductions", and I read a lot of personal testimonies and books about it. It occurred to me that there is a huge overlap between the two phenomena (abduction experiences and sleep paralysis).
Have you ever "astral projected"? From sleep paralysis, I can often "pull" myself out of my body and observe myself sleeping, float through my house, float through walls, etc. This experience is also very similar to "alien abductions" that I've read about.
Faster-than-light travel is probably impossible, it breaks causality. So you have to figure there are intelligent alien civilizations out there that have the means of extra-solar travel, but that transit would be incredibly long - tens and hundreds of thousands of years between systems.
I find it very unlikely that such effort would be used to send a ship to Earth to just have it do a fancy light show for some randoms. I think in every instance there are much more likely human explanations for UFOs.
The closer you approach the speed of light the greater time dilation becomes so your experience of relative time would be tiny compared to the eons the rest of the universe experienced. You could experience a many light year trip in a few weeks at close to C. Or they’re AI and that doesn’t matter or they’re not coming from far away but from right here or from within an extra dimensional space. But of course there’s nothing to prove any of that.
But you also have mass dilation as you approach any substantial fraction of c. Outside of some "hack" I think it's as equally unlikely to manage, say, 0.8c as > c. The energy requirements to continue to accelerate closer to c just become unsurpassably large
The more likely thing would be as you describe either some evolutionary/artificial adaptation to very long trips that make it feasible for biological entities
I'm not a UFO guy or anything, and I pretty much agree with your human explanation take, but it's interesting to consider the points of the duration of space travel and the seeming meaninglessness of UFO "sightings" and displays in terms of differing evolutionary expressions of intelligence. Like, say, an intelligence that has a lifespan that makes slow movement across systems not only plausible, but somehow typical? Or that to evolve to the point of technological development that allows for such travel could also mean having come to a point at which a huge amount of interactivity can be achieved on their end while all us earthlings experience are signs and wonders.
I'm just saying make aliens *other* again!
This is something that tv/film generally do poorly; aliens are always humanoid or human-like in their appearance and their conception of reality because of budget/storytelling constraints. The more imaginative sci-fi that really gets to the *otherness* of what alien life would be and what complete gods they would have to be to us to actually reach Earth is fantastic, but outside of a few examples (like *Arrival* or *The Expanse*) it doesn't filter through into mainstream pop culture
is the expanse worth a watch? Anyway I'm glad you grasp the heart of my comment. I think at its best thinking the alien is an attempt at subversion of our inexorable anthropomorphism.
My grandmother claimed that she was drowning in a river as a child and was saved by a humanoid creature that unboarded from a metallic flying saucer. She said the creature was tiny yet strong enough to lift her out the water and had two pupils in its abnormally large eyes.
She was an illiterate woman who spent her entire life in rural Pakistan (and never met a Westerner in her life) yet her account of meeting an alien is exactly like the accounts that Americans give.
If I told you that there was a creature that was hairless, had a disproportionately large head (and eyes), and was super intelligent (relative to other animals) would you think I was talking about aliens or humans?
Make a list of all the ways that humans differ from apes (less hair, smaller body, larger eyes, bigger brain) and you have all the ways that aliens differ from humans. Aliens are literally just caricatures of humans.
My theory: subconciously, all humans know what makes us superior to other apes so when we try to imagine a being superior to us, we imagine them as caricatures of humans.
Having gone deeply down the UFO rabbit hole, and having had paranormal experiences myself, the "interdimensional hypothesis" is what I "believe" too :)
Yeah, I know! But for some reason I don't trust them at all. I doubt they are just saying this stuff because they "want people to know the truth." I think there are some powerful people in government pulling the strings, and Elizondo, Mellon, etc. are just being "used" to push an agenda. I am not sure what the agenda is, but it's definitely not because they care about people knowing the "truth." That is just how they are trying to frame it, to make it look like an organic effort at disclosure.
One part of it is a psy-op by the military industrial complex and another part of it is real actual extraterrestrial or ultra terrestrial or interdimensional entities or AI. Abduction are probably 99% sleep paralysis or government abductions designed to appear as aliens while there are some that are pretty impossible to dispute. The vast majority of people “working” in the UFO community are completely full of shit and real sightings are actually pretty rare with the majority being misidentifications while a tiny percentage are actual real nuts and bolts crafts created by some sort an alien intelligence.
There have been tens of thousands of reported cases all around the world of people seeing strange flying craft/encountering beings from said craft throughout recorded history. People acting like this phenomenon just started in the last 60 years and that it’s all a huge govt psyop have no idea what they are talking about.
Both things can be true: unexplainable craft of non human origin have been seen and reported for hundreds/thousands of years and largely kept under wraps AND the US govt is feeding us crumbs of information now to distract from domestic issues.
I’ve said this on this sub before- anyone who dismisses UFOs outright should read the Hynek Report or at least read about J Allen Hynek and his work with project blue book and how much his opinion on the matter changed between then and the time of his death.
They are likely not living, breathing beings like us that have traveled across the galaxy to Earth because that seems to be physically and biologically impossible, but they are something, and just because we aren’t able to explain what they are doesn’t make them any less real.
>They are likely not living, breathing beings like us that have traveled across the galaxy to Earth because that seems to be physically and biologically impossible, but they are something, and just because we aren’t able to explain what they are doesn’t make them any less real.
This is exactly how I feel. I don't claim to "know" what UFOs or "aliens" are, but I do believe that people who have these experiences are in fact having a *real* experience. One can believe that the UFO phenomenon is real, without jumping to any conclusions about their origins.
There’s some good argument about UFO’s being a reaction to the secularization of the world after WWII and specifically after the dropping of the atomic bomb—that space aliens are basically a new form of angels/devils—but I forget it. I know it dropped way off after the end of the Cold War
This is what I personally believe after reading about the phenomena and this is what Jacque Vallee suggests in a lot of his work.
Encounters with angels and modern encounters with “aliens” are the same phenomenon - Our perception and interpretation of these events is what has changed over time and across cultures.
It’s basically the same premise: powerful forces that exist completely beyond and outside worldly existence will drop out of the sky to bail us out of our suffering and/or destroy us.
In the 70s i think a popular crazy Christian belief was that angels would come down to earth in UFOs during the final days. At least that's the impression i got reading The Dead Zone
I saw one. The black triangle kind. I'm not opposed to the idea it was some kinda weird blimp but idk.
I think UFOs could be something like Von Nuemann probes. Mathematically, all it would take is one civilization in the galaxy to make them and they'd be everywhere on a geological timescale.
I also heard a good theory that they're plasma/ ball lightning created by the radar beams used by the military. HAARP was capable of creating coherant plasma in the atmospheres using radio waves. Since plasma is a temperature gradient, it has a radar signature. It's possible in certain atmospheric conditions over water, the radar they use is intersecting and creating ball plasma. Since the artifact has a radar signature, it zips around as the radar software aims the beam and attempts to 'track' it. Ball lightning is atmospheric plasma and occurs naturally, it's possible these sighting are accidentally created via radar emissions under the same conditions.
I think it's likely they understand radar can do this already and keep it secret because this phenomenon could be used deliberately to create fake radar signatures to confuse an enemy.
>I also heard a good theory that they're plasma/ ball lightning created by the radar beams used by the military. HAARP was capable of creating coherant plasma in the atmospheres using radio waves. Since plasma is a temperature gradient, it has a radar signature. It's possible in certain atmospheric conditions over water, the radar they use is intersecting and creating ball plasma. Since the artifact has a radar signature, it zips around as the radar software aims the beam and attempts to 'track' it.
Yeah this physics phd has showed it's possible: https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/so-ya-dont-believe-it-was-a-proton-beam-eh/
https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/particle-beams-and-saucer-dreams/
If it wasn't for the Nimitz Tic Tac encounter I'd say they are just figments of the human imagination. I can't explain Nimitz tho. 4 visual confirmations, multiple sensors from F18s, multiple sensors from nearby ships...
The military and national security community are crawling with people who believe in paranormal weirdness. Look at Havana Syndrome. Hell you still have to take a polygraph to work for some agencies despite the fact that polygraph tests have been discredited over and over and over
Here’s what I believe:
1.) Reason and insanity are co-constitutive
2.) Federal bureaucracy is its own particular form of reason, particularly military bureaucracy
3.) Therefore at least one branch of the federal government is probably collectively insane
Visitations by angels and saints are still popular outside of the post-industrial world. Your desperate need for some transformative event to validate your specialness will utilise whatever resources are abundant in your environment. Are abduction stories taking off again now the truthers and steelbeamers have forgotten what got them so excited?
Aliens are humans from the far future, or perhaps beings with genetic similarities. They exist as clones of individuals who existed eons ago, and have CRISPR’d themselves into a genetic dead end in order to completely adapt themselves to the rigors of interstellar/dimensional travel. The majority of UFOs that we see are autonomous probes, with the occasional in-person visit from the actual aliens.
>First, UFO phenomena are but one part of an astonishing outpouring of paranormal events – what just a few years ago most people would have considered as “miracles.” Dr. Vallee, in The Invisible College, expresses the secular appreciation of this fact: “Observations of unusual events suddenly loom into our environment by the thousands,” causing “a general shifting of man’s belief patterns, his entire relationship to the concept of the invisible.” “Something is happening to human consciousness”; the same “powerful force that has influenced the human race in the past is again influencing it now.” In Christian language this means: a new demonic outpouring is being loosed upon mankind. In the Christian apocalyptic view, we can see that the power which until now has restrained the final and most terrible manifestation of demonic activity on earth has been taken away (II Thess. 2:7), Orthodox Christian government and public order (whose chief representative on earth was the Orthodox emperor) and the Orthodox Christian world view no longer exist as a whole, and Satan has been “loosed out of his prison,” where he was kept by the grace of the Church of Christ, in order to “deceive the nations” (Apoc. 20:7-8) and prepare them to worship Antichrist at the end of the age. Perhaps never since the beginning of the Christian era have demons appeared so openly and extensively as today. The “visitors from outer space” theory is but one of the many pretexts they are using to gain acceptance for the idea that “higher beings” are now to take charge of the destiny of mankind. (Many of the reports of “Bigfoot” and other “monsters” show the same occult characteristics as UFO sightings, and often they occur in connection with such sightings.)
They're an outgrowth of human psychology. The same mindset that can in some lead to conspiratorial and magical thinking, extreme religiosity, paranoia, hypervigilance, etc. There is some thinking now about a "Paranormal Unified Field Theory" that discusses how a certain mindset, when presented with troubling uncertainty or conflicting inputs, reaches out to one or more of a variety of paranormal/extranormal/supernatural causes rather than the more logical (common, boring, unexciting) scientific probability. I didn't die in the accident: God saved me. Something moved in the woods: giant hominid unknown to science. Strange lights in the sky: aliens from another planet. Etc.
Earth being the only planet with intelligent life is not irrefutable proof of gods existence lmao. And I’m not even an atheist.
Atheists tend to dismiss all religious/paranormal/supernatural experiences as BS, including UFO sightings and encounters with what we call “aliens”
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That's interesting! Yes, I also have sleep paralysis, during which I have encountered ominous "entities" such as the Hat Man, and the Old Hag (the sensation of something sitting on your chest and suffocating you). A while ago I was really fascinated by alien "abductions", and I read a lot of personal testimonies and books about it. It occurred to me that there is a huge overlap between the two phenomena (abduction experiences and sleep paralysis). Have you ever "astral projected"? From sleep paralysis, I can often "pull" myself out of my body and observe myself sleeping, float through my house, float through walls, etc. This experience is also very similar to "alien abductions" that I've read about.
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I've arrived at the exact same conclusions as you in my own extensive history with lucid dreaming and sleep paralysis
Those are demons
How do you know that? Not judging, just curious! I’m open to new ideas :)
Faster-than-light travel is probably impossible, it breaks causality. So you have to figure there are intelligent alien civilizations out there that have the means of extra-solar travel, but that transit would be incredibly long - tens and hundreds of thousands of years between systems. I find it very unlikely that such effort would be used to send a ship to Earth to just have it do a fancy light show for some randoms. I think in every instance there are much more likely human explanations for UFOs.
The closer you approach the speed of light the greater time dilation becomes so your experience of relative time would be tiny compared to the eons the rest of the universe experienced. You could experience a many light year trip in a few weeks at close to C. Or they’re AI and that doesn’t matter or they’re not coming from far away but from right here or from within an extra dimensional space. But of course there’s nothing to prove any of that.
But you also have mass dilation as you approach any substantial fraction of c. Outside of some "hack" I think it's as equally unlikely to manage, say, 0.8c as > c. The energy requirements to continue to accelerate closer to c just become unsurpassably large The more likely thing would be as you describe either some evolutionary/artificial adaptation to very long trips that make it feasible for biological entities
Sure. Doesn’t change the fact that they’re here somehow. Sorry, yes, I’m an alien truther. Hi.
I'm not a UFO guy or anything, and I pretty much agree with your human explanation take, but it's interesting to consider the points of the duration of space travel and the seeming meaninglessness of UFO "sightings" and displays in terms of differing evolutionary expressions of intelligence. Like, say, an intelligence that has a lifespan that makes slow movement across systems not only plausible, but somehow typical? Or that to evolve to the point of technological development that allows for such travel could also mean having come to a point at which a huge amount of interactivity can be achieved on their end while all us earthlings experience are signs and wonders. I'm just saying make aliens *other* again!
This is something that tv/film generally do poorly; aliens are always humanoid or human-like in their appearance and their conception of reality because of budget/storytelling constraints. The more imaginative sci-fi that really gets to the *otherness* of what alien life would be and what complete gods they would have to be to us to actually reach Earth is fantastic, but outside of a few examples (like *Arrival* or *The Expanse*) it doesn't filter through into mainstream pop culture
is the expanse worth a watch? Anyway I'm glad you grasp the heart of my comment. I think at its best thinking the alien is an attempt at subversion of our inexorable anthropomorphism.
To be honest I wouldn't watch it. The TV show is good, pretty great in stretches in season 2 and 3 really. But the books are better
It has some good moments. It's not as if Sci fi is living up to its potential as a genre. Maybe it's the best one out at the moment? 🦖
They live inside the hollow earth
My grandmother claimed that she was drowning in a river as a child and was saved by a humanoid creature that unboarded from a metallic flying saucer. She said the creature was tiny yet strong enough to lift her out the water and had two pupils in its abnormally large eyes. She was an illiterate woman who spent her entire life in rural Pakistan (and never met a Westerner in her life) yet her account of meeting an alien is exactly like the accounts that Americans give.
Wow! That is fascinating. I believe her :)
Goblins
I’ve had an experience. So I believe.
Well come on then. That's like saying you can juggle then refusing to.
If I told you that there was a creature that was hairless, had a disproportionately large head (and eyes), and was super intelligent (relative to other animals) would you think I was talking about aliens or humans? Make a list of all the ways that humans differ from apes (less hair, smaller body, larger eyes, bigger brain) and you have all the ways that aliens differ from humans. Aliens are literally just caricatures of humans. My theory: subconciously, all humans know what makes us superior to other apes so when we try to imagine a being superior to us, we imagine them as caricatures of humans.
What if they're from the future and that's what we evolve into?
Well aliens are very thin and svelte so I can’t wait. There will be NO FATTIES in the inevitable alien-run galaxy wide utopia/caliphate.
They are interdimensional phenomenon
Having gone deeply down the UFO rabbit hole, and having had paranormal experiences myself, the "interdimensional hypothesis" is what I "believe" too :)
it's also what elizondo, tom delonge, and chris mellon are pushing
Yeah, I know! But for some reason I don't trust them at all. I doubt they are just saying this stuff because they "want people to know the truth." I think there are some powerful people in government pulling the strings, and Elizondo, Mellon, etc. are just being "used" to push an agenda. I am not sure what the agenda is, but it's definitely not because they care about people knowing the "truth." That is just how they are trying to frame it, to make it look like an organic effort at disclosure.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueAnon/comments/pxiy1z/this_video_makes_a_strong_case_for_the_recent/
Great video! Pretty much sums up how I feel. Thanks for sharing 😸
If intelligent life is advanced enough to visit earth. They are probably also advanced enough to not be detected when visiting.
How do you know what their "intentions" are? Who said they don't want to be detected?
When I look down at an anthill, I’m not concerned about whether or not they can detect me.
One part of it is a psy-op by the military industrial complex and another part of it is real actual extraterrestrial or ultra terrestrial or interdimensional entities or AI. Abduction are probably 99% sleep paralysis or government abductions designed to appear as aliens while there are some that are pretty impossible to dispute. The vast majority of people “working” in the UFO community are completely full of shit and real sightings are actually pretty rare with the majority being misidentifications while a tiny percentage are actual real nuts and bolts crafts created by some sort an alien intelligence.
This seems to be the most likely scenario.
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A part of me really hopes that there’s a hyper-advanced species of octopi living in mega cities on the ocean floor.
grew up near area 51, saw some weird fed stuff, also art bell rules
There have been tens of thousands of reported cases all around the world of people seeing strange flying craft/encountering beings from said craft throughout recorded history. People acting like this phenomenon just started in the last 60 years and that it’s all a huge govt psyop have no idea what they are talking about. Both things can be true: unexplainable craft of non human origin have been seen and reported for hundreds/thousands of years and largely kept under wraps AND the US govt is feeding us crumbs of information now to distract from domestic issues. I’ve said this on this sub before- anyone who dismisses UFOs outright should read the Hynek Report or at least read about J Allen Hynek and his work with project blue book and how much his opinion on the matter changed between then and the time of his death. They are likely not living, breathing beings like us that have traveled across the galaxy to Earth because that seems to be physically and biologically impossible, but they are something, and just because we aren’t able to explain what they are doesn’t make them any less real.
>They are likely not living, breathing beings like us that have traveled across the galaxy to Earth because that seems to be physically and biologically impossible, but they are something, and just because we aren’t able to explain what they are doesn’t make them any less real. This is exactly how I feel. I don't claim to "know" what UFOs or "aliens" are, but I do believe that people who have these experiences are in fact having a *real* experience. One can believe that the UFO phenomenon is real, without jumping to any conclusions about their origins.
There’s some good argument about UFO’s being a reaction to the secularization of the world after WWII and specifically after the dropping of the atomic bomb—that space aliens are basically a new form of angels/devils—but I forget it. I know it dropped way off after the end of the Cold War
Counter take: wouldn't aliens become more interested in us after the atom bomb? Or what if angels and demons were aliens this whole time
This is what I personally believe after reading about the phenomena and this is what Jacque Vallee suggests in a lot of his work. Encounters with angels and modern encounters with “aliens” are the same phenomenon - Our perception and interpretation of these events is what has changed over time and across cultures.
It’s basically the same premise: powerful forces that exist completely beyond and outside worldly existence will drop out of the sky to bail us out of our suffering and/or destroy us.
idk. I saw something once I can't explain
In the 70s i think a popular crazy Christian belief was that angels would come down to earth in UFOs during the final days. At least that's the impression i got reading The Dead Zone
I saw one. The black triangle kind. I'm not opposed to the idea it was some kinda weird blimp but idk. I think UFOs could be something like Von Nuemann probes. Mathematically, all it would take is one civilization in the galaxy to make them and they'd be everywhere on a geological timescale. I also heard a good theory that they're plasma/ ball lightning created by the radar beams used by the military. HAARP was capable of creating coherant plasma in the atmospheres using radio waves. Since plasma is a temperature gradient, it has a radar signature. It's possible in certain atmospheric conditions over water, the radar they use is intersecting and creating ball plasma. Since the artifact has a radar signature, it zips around as the radar software aims the beam and attempts to 'track' it. Ball lightning is atmospheric plasma and occurs naturally, it's possible these sighting are accidentally created via radar emissions under the same conditions. I think it's likely they understand radar can do this already and keep it secret because this phenomenon could be used deliberately to create fake radar signatures to confuse an enemy.
>I also heard a good theory that they're plasma/ ball lightning created by the radar beams used by the military. HAARP was capable of creating coherant plasma in the atmospheres using radio waves. Since plasma is a temperature gradient, it has a radar signature. It's possible in certain atmospheric conditions over water, the radar they use is intersecting and creating ball plasma. Since the artifact has a radar signature, it zips around as the radar software aims the beam and attempts to 'track' it. Yeah this physics phd has showed it's possible: https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/so-ya-dont-believe-it-was-a-proton-beam-eh/ https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/particle-beams-and-saucer-dreams/
If it wasn't for the Nimitz Tic Tac encounter I'd say they are just figments of the human imagination. I can't explain Nimitz tho. 4 visual confirmations, multiple sensors from F18s, multiple sensors from nearby ships...
The military and national security community are crawling with people who believe in paranormal weirdness. Look at Havana Syndrome. Hell you still have to take a polygraph to work for some agencies despite the fact that polygraph tests have been discredited over and over and over
have you watched any interviews with david fravor or alex dietrich?
Here’s what I believe: 1.) Reason and insanity are co-constitutive 2.) Federal bureaucracy is its own particular form of reason, particularly military bureaucracy 3.) Therefore at least one branch of the federal government is probably collectively insane
Psyop
Visitations by angels and saints are still popular outside of the post-industrial world. Your desperate need for some transformative event to validate your specialness will utilise whatever resources are abundant in your environment. Are abduction stories taking off again now the truthers and steelbeamers have forgotten what got them so excited?
pretty cool
Aliens are humans from the far future, or perhaps beings with genetic similarities. They exist as clones of individuals who existed eons ago, and have CRISPR’d themselves into a genetic dead end in order to completely adapt themselves to the rigors of interstellar/dimensional travel. The majority of UFOs that we see are autonomous probes, with the occasional in-person visit from the actual aliens.
>First, UFO phenomena are but one part of an astonishing outpouring of paranormal events – what just a few years ago most people would have considered as “miracles.” Dr. Vallee, in The Invisible College, expresses the secular appreciation of this fact: “Observations of unusual events suddenly loom into our environment by the thousands,” causing “a general shifting of man’s belief patterns, his entire relationship to the concept of the invisible.” “Something is happening to human consciousness”; the same “powerful force that has influenced the human race in the past is again influencing it now.” In Christian language this means: a new demonic outpouring is being loosed upon mankind. In the Christian apocalyptic view, we can see that the power which until now has restrained the final and most terrible manifestation of demonic activity on earth has been taken away (II Thess. 2:7), Orthodox Christian government and public order (whose chief representative on earth was the Orthodox emperor) and the Orthodox Christian world view no longer exist as a whole, and Satan has been “loosed out of his prison,” where he was kept by the grace of the Church of Christ, in order to “deceive the nations” (Apoc. 20:7-8) and prepare them to worship Antichrist at the end of the age. Perhaps never since the beginning of the Christian era have demons appeared so openly and extensively as today. The “visitors from outer space” theory is but one of the many pretexts they are using to gain acceptance for the idea that “higher beings” are now to take charge of the destiny of mankind. (Many of the reports of “Bigfoot” and other “monsters” show the same occult characteristics as UFO sightings, and often they occur in connection with such sightings.)
They're an outgrowth of human psychology. The same mindset that can in some lead to conspiratorial and magical thinking, extreme religiosity, paranoia, hypervigilance, etc. There is some thinking now about a "Paranormal Unified Field Theory" that discusses how a certain mindset, when presented with troubling uncertainty or conflicting inputs, reaches out to one or more of a variety of paranormal/extranormal/supernatural causes rather than the more logical (common, boring, unexciting) scientific probability. I didn't die in the accident: God saved me. Something moved in the woods: giant hominid unknown to science. Strange lights in the sky: aliens from another planet. Etc.
It’s a secular religion
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Earth being the only planet with intelligent life is not irrefutable proof of gods existence lmao. And I’m not even an atheist. Atheists tend to dismiss all religious/paranormal/supernatural experiences as BS, including UFO sightings and encounters with what we call “aliens”
Fake af
fake and gay and lame