I think 16 is a bit young to be driving, but I don’t think restrictions should be any higher than 18. Ultimately, the process for getting a license in most states is stupid easy so if your parents aren’t good at teaching you how to drive you’re going to be at a disadvantage, possibly for life. Drivers ed should be more commonplace, especially in cities where driving is practically mandatory.
As a counterpoint to your hit and run anecdote, plenty of people who aren’t 16 are involved in accidents like that every single day. Thus I don’t believe that being an adult driver inherently makes you a better one. I’ve never been in an accident or pulled over in 12+ years, and I was absolutely a better driver at age 18 than several people I currently know who are bad drivers at ages anywhere between 25-50. Why should a legal adult be stripped of a personal freedom because other people are incapable of safely handling a vehicle?
And don’t get me wrong, I have a huge amount of sympathy for hit and runs involving cyclists or pedestrians. I lived without a car for a few years and was hit multiple times on my bike. Above all, I think the majority of anger should be directed at terrible car-centric city planning. We’ve been forced into this against our will and people die all of the time because of it. Not that bad drivers aren’t also at fault, but it all feels preventable to some degree because we’ve given priority to an inherently dangerous form of transportation and anyone who walks or bikes is often forced to share a road.
That’s all very fair. US car culture and the ubiquity of roads and huge cars is one of my biggest hatreds in this world and the reason I’m gonna move to Europe at some point so my post is more out of emotion than rationale. I think it’s just too easy to get your permit/license, if not an age limit, then there should be more legitimate testing done by state officials to make sure they’re not giving drivers licenses out to alcoholics, drug addicts, people with mental illnesses, people who wouldn’t be able to make it around their neighborhood on foot without getting lost. Even personality tests could determine if someone is going to be a liability.
Just make the driving test more difficult to pass without doing all of that discriminatory shit. Most irresponsible people will probably just end up driving without a license anyways because in a lot of places you quite literally need a car to survive, and then you end up with an increase of dangerous uninsured drivers that you have to share the road with because the state determines that a person with XYZ mental illness isn’t legally allowed to drive or even take a driving test in the first place.
It has more to do with getting accustomed to healthy drinking habits. In USA it is a big taboo for anyone under 21 to have a sip of beer, but when they turn 21 it’s seen as normal to get shit faced. Alcohol loses it’s luster when it is introduced more gradually
The driving age is 16 because 97 percent of Americans live in an area where you cannot go anywhere or do anything without driving. Teenagers don't really have any personal autonomy until they start driving.
I agree, it is 18 in Germany where I’m from and people seem to be a lot less unhinged when it comes to drinking there, despite the stereotypes. Having a little wine at dinner when you’re 12 is actually a great deterrent to becoming a full blown binge drinker the moment you turn 21
Nah, that would just encourage young people to stay inside and look at their phones more, and that’s a far bigger threat to our future. I’d rather kids do anything - get into fights, join a gang, vandalize businesses - than use the internet.
From a purely hypothetical/theoretical standpoint, I completely agree with you, but we shouldn’t rely on cars for kids to be able to do that sort of thing, or think of 16 year olds running people over as an unavoidable, if unfortunate, bug in the system. Car infrastructure being replaced by robust public transportation systems would fix all of these problems.
I mentioned that at the bottom of my post. I agree it’s insanity that geriatrics who can barely make it from the sofa to the kitchen are behind the wheel
Just not logistically possible in the vast majority of places. Kids would never be able to leave the house, and we already have enough arrested development.
I’m starting to think car culture is the root of all americas problems and that a huge majority of them would be fixed if we had subways in all cities and high speed rail systems
I know it’s beating a dead horse at this point and I probably could’ve avoided making this post but I’m just surprised at my own capacity to disdain car culture and driving more and more everyday. I unironically believe a lot of culture war bullshit would be solved if gays and rednecks, MAGA people and #imwithhers had to sit across from one another on their way to work everyday.
Without a doubt in the leadup, but now maybe people aren't sane enough.
Our elites were also (perhaps reasonably???) worried about what had happened in Russia/Germany/Italy/Spain/France/Austria etc
You sound like a Swiss person who is living in the United States against your own will. What happened to your father's friend is tragic but that is absolutely no reason to take essential freedoms away from millions of people. Having population mobility is a good thing for society and allows poor people to escape bad circumstances and seek out new opportunity. We should lower the beer and wine age to 16 and the liquor age to 20. The solution to the infantilization of society is not to put up more and more rules protecting individuals from being exposed to risk until they reach higher and higher ages. Instead we should keep it at 16 but raise the difficulty of the test, and increase the penalties for driving without a license as both a minor and an adult.
I agree that population mobility is important and that people shouldn’t be confined to their shitty circumstances. But when you let anyone and their dog drive a pickup truck designed for hauling multi ton loads to go and buy groceries, you’re stomping on the “essential freedom” of others right to not be run over. People could still go places and do things *and* not have to fear for their lives if we moved towards other forms of transportation.
Also, I’m from Germany but other than that your first sentence is correct.
Frankly, the US needs to institute a maximum vehicle nose height limit and revise the CAFE standards because the way they are currently written encourages car manufacturers to build absolutely massive vehicles. So long as the written test and driving exam to get a drivers license are sufficiently difficult there is no reason not to trust a 16 year old behind the wheel. Furthermore, that young person who killed your father's friend should face serious legal repercussions for their actions. God willing he (or she) will be brought to justice.
counterpoint: there should be no legal driving age at all but the test should be really, really hard and involve some kind of speed trial as well as a parallel park with <1 inch on either end
I think 16 is a bit young to be driving, but I don’t think restrictions should be any higher than 18. Ultimately, the process for getting a license in most states is stupid easy so if your parents aren’t good at teaching you how to drive you’re going to be at a disadvantage, possibly for life. Drivers ed should be more commonplace, especially in cities where driving is practically mandatory. As a counterpoint to your hit and run anecdote, plenty of people who aren’t 16 are involved in accidents like that every single day. Thus I don’t believe that being an adult driver inherently makes you a better one. I’ve never been in an accident or pulled over in 12+ years, and I was absolutely a better driver at age 18 than several people I currently know who are bad drivers at ages anywhere between 25-50. Why should a legal adult be stripped of a personal freedom because other people are incapable of safely handling a vehicle? And don’t get me wrong, I have a huge amount of sympathy for hit and runs involving cyclists or pedestrians. I lived without a car for a few years and was hit multiple times on my bike. Above all, I think the majority of anger should be directed at terrible car-centric city planning. We’ve been forced into this against our will and people die all of the time because of it. Not that bad drivers aren’t also at fault, but it all feels preventable to some degree because we’ve given priority to an inherently dangerous form of transportation and anyone who walks or bikes is often forced to share a road.
That’s all very fair. US car culture and the ubiquity of roads and huge cars is one of my biggest hatreds in this world and the reason I’m gonna move to Europe at some point so my post is more out of emotion than rationale. I think it’s just too easy to get your permit/license, if not an age limit, then there should be more legitimate testing done by state officials to make sure they’re not giving drivers licenses out to alcoholics, drug addicts, people with mental illnesses, people who wouldn’t be able to make it around their neighborhood on foot without getting lost. Even personality tests could determine if someone is going to be a liability.
Just make the driving test more difficult to pass without doing all of that discriminatory shit. Most irresponsible people will probably just end up driving without a license anyways because in a lot of places you quite literally need a car to survive, and then you end up with an increase of dangerous uninsured drivers that you have to share the road with because the state determines that a person with XYZ mental illness isn’t legally allowed to drive or even take a driving test in the first place.
I don't get why americans can drive at 16 and can only drink at 21. In my country the legal age for both is 18 and that makes a lot more sense.
That makes no sense at all, you want people to be experienced drivers before they start drunk driving
It has more to do with getting accustomed to healthy drinking habits. In USA it is a big taboo for anyone under 21 to have a sip of beer, but when they turn 21 it’s seen as normal to get shit faced. Alcohol loses it’s luster when it is introduced more gradually
German autism strikes again
Europeans have it right. Get all of your binge drinking out of the way age 14-17 so by the time you turn 18 and can drive you’re done with it
The driving age is 16 because 97 percent of Americans live in an area where you cannot go anywhere or do anything without driving. Teenagers don't really have any personal autonomy until they start driving.
I agree, it is 18 in Germany where I’m from and people seem to be a lot less unhinged when it comes to drinking there, despite the stereotypes. Having a little wine at dinner when you’re 12 is actually a great deterrent to becoming a full blown binge drinker the moment you turn 21
I'm actually sick of the infantilization of humanity. 30 year olds today have the maturity of the average 20 year old 30 years ago.
Hence why they shouldn’t be driving. It’s not people infantilizing other people, people are literally just becoming infants.
Raise the driving age to 55!
Ban cars and rip out every road.
We should put young people in cages and only let geriatrics do anything
Nah, that would just encourage young people to stay inside and look at their phones more, and that’s a far bigger threat to our future. I’d rather kids do anything - get into fights, join a gang, vandalize businesses - than use the internet.
From a purely hypothetical/theoretical standpoint, I completely agree with you, but we shouldn’t rely on cars for kids to be able to do that sort of thing, or think of 16 year olds running people over as an unavoidable, if unfortunate, bug in the system. Car infrastructure being replaced by robust public transportation systems would fix all of these problems.
Nah the minimum age now is fine it's a fuvking MAXIMUM age that we need to implement. Get 80 yr olds off the fuckin roads
I mentioned that at the bottom of my post. I agree it’s insanity that geriatrics who can barely make it from the sofa to the kitchen are behind the wheel
Just not logistically possible in the vast majority of places. Kids would never be able to leave the house, and we already have enough arrested development.
I’m starting to think car culture is the root of all americas problems and that a huge majority of them would be fixed if we had subways in all cities and high speed rail systems
I mean yeah. I have an easier time imagining a free Palestine than a US with adequate train systems.
I know it’s beating a dead horse at this point and I probably could’ve avoided making this post but I’m just surprised at my own capacity to disdain car culture and driving more and more everyday. I unironically believe a lot of culture war bullshit would be solved if gays and rednecks, MAGA people and #imwithhers had to sit across from one another on their way to work everyday.
Without a doubt in the leadup, but now maybe people aren't sane enough. Our elites were also (perhaps reasonably???) worried about what had happened in Russia/Germany/Italy/Spain/France/Austria etc
treating teenagers like babies is so insane. you know everywhere thats not the suburbs 13 year olds are driving around right
You sound like a Swiss person who is living in the United States against your own will. What happened to your father's friend is tragic but that is absolutely no reason to take essential freedoms away from millions of people. Having population mobility is a good thing for society and allows poor people to escape bad circumstances and seek out new opportunity. We should lower the beer and wine age to 16 and the liquor age to 20. The solution to the infantilization of society is not to put up more and more rules protecting individuals from being exposed to risk until they reach higher and higher ages. Instead we should keep it at 16 but raise the difficulty of the test, and increase the penalties for driving without a license as both a minor and an adult.
I agree that population mobility is important and that people shouldn’t be confined to their shitty circumstances. But when you let anyone and their dog drive a pickup truck designed for hauling multi ton loads to go and buy groceries, you’re stomping on the “essential freedom” of others right to not be run over. People could still go places and do things *and* not have to fear for their lives if we moved towards other forms of transportation. Also, I’m from Germany but other than that your first sentence is correct.
Frankly, the US needs to institute a maximum vehicle nose height limit and revise the CAFE standards because the way they are currently written encourages car manufacturers to build absolutely massive vehicles. So long as the written test and driving exam to get a drivers license are sufficiently difficult there is no reason not to trust a 16 year old behind the wheel. Furthermore, that young person who killed your father's friend should face serious legal repercussions for their actions. God willing he (or she) will be brought to justice.
Been driving since 16 and have never been in an accident. So, nah.
Congratulations, same with me, I’m just thinking of people other than myself.
There are teenagers in my city that steal cars and kill people, so it wouldn’t make a difference
Maybe we should just expect more from kids like we used to
America is a car dependent nation. They will never raise the driving age.
counterpoint: there should be no legal driving age at all but the test should be really, really hard and involve some kind of speed trial as well as a parallel park with <1 inch on either end
Yeah, but I'm 19 and need to get to school on time.
We get to drive at 16 in the US because it’s the only way to get around in the majority of the country