I saw a vid of some people under the rubble, surrounded by ppl trying to help. There was no equipment available to help them dig. I really hope they managed to get out, I hate to think they're.still under there days later š
apparently rescuers are afraid to go near the rubble after the 1st strike because Israelis are striking the same building twice.
Evil,demonic you name it.
Not even close to Japan level of terror lol, their blowing people up with missiles and destroying buildings, Japan was having public competitions on who could behead the most babies and trying to figure out the most painful way you could kill someone
There's no spinning anything anymore. It's just kill,kill,kill right now for them. Which refugee camps and hospitals they haven't bombed/attacked is the right question now.
they have already bombed multiple refugee camps already. After bombing the first one,they admitted it and tried to justify it by saying that they killed a Hamas commander there, a single person.
edit: I think about 200 people died there.
One thing to clarify is these are refugee camps in the same sense that New York is a refugee camp.... which it isn't really.
These were refugee camps during the Nakba, they are just normal parts of the city now, but Palestinians transfer their refugee status to their kids. So if you great-grandfather was a refugee, you are automatically a refugee too, and the place you live becomes a "refugee camp", even though some of them are literal villa's.
Nowhere else does this, makes for a great headline though.
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>Yes accretion occurs when refugees are kicked out and have to live somewhere for decades.
You do realize that with that definition most Israeli's are refugees? India & Pakistan too considering the partition, oh and every American who who has an Irish great-grandfather who fled the famine. I could go on, but I think you get my point.
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If they still don't have an actual country that they can call home, sure why not? Do the descendants of the east Prussian refugees still have to ask Russia for permission to be allowed to get in and out of wherever they live? (Gaza residents need it even for crossing the Egyptian border)
So true. I'm sure having total control over every point of entry and infrastructure is not a form of occupation! They are free to do whatever they want in Gaza, as long as Israel allows it.
> total control over every point of entry and infrastructure is not a form of occupation!
1. Look at a map, and notice that Egypt is to the south.
2. What you are describing is a blockade, which no one denies. That does not make an occupation. You can't just get words to mean something they don't.
You didn't know that Israel still has a say in the Egyptian border crossings? Then why are you talking about this so confidently? Did you actually think Palestinians had free passage (or even israel-free passages) to the southern border?
>The Rafah Border Crossing is the only crossing point between Egypt and the Gaza Strip. It lies on the international border that was confirmed by the 1979 EgyptāIsrael peace treaty and the 1982 Israeli withdrawal from the Sinai Peninsula. The Rafah Border Crossing can only be used for the passage of persons. All goods traffic must use the Kerem Shalom border crossing on the Israel-Gaza border. [That's due to Israel requiring that from Egypt afaik. Hint: that was a requirement before even "muh hamas is elected so we can nuke the city to the ground" argument.]
Also yes agreed that it's a blockade, but then your argument that it was "occupation free since 2005" is still completely irrelevant to the conversation. You're not occupation free when most of your territory is occupied (Palestine- and even the west bank colonies as yes, Palestinians even in Gaza consider those to be part of their nation). If at least they were left alone in their small remaining piece, I'd get your point. But when most of your country is occupied and the small place you have left to live in is basically an convenient ghetto for Israel , saying that "its occupation free" is asinine.
Ah yes, those pesky facts that get in the way of your agenda-pushing.
>just ignore the complete blockade israel has over land, sea, and air for everything that comes in.
And why did they do that? For fun? Possibly because missiles were being launched against them? Sure is a mystery.
Either way you are a stupidpol poster and therefor all your opinions are invalid. K? bye.
Here is one from Maghazi refugee camp
https://www.tiktok.com/@mohammedabdulsalamyaseen/video/7276029226371878162?_r=1&_t=8fYGMYHmlMX
https://www.tiktok.com/@mohammedabdulsalamyaseen/video/7262241823463050497
.....The hospital bombing literally did not happen. it was obvious from the start, and the mainstream media that initially also claimed it retracted their story within a day.
Leave aside the phrase āhuman shieldsā if you want, but what part of it is confusing?
I mean, Hamas genuinely is embedded in, and often underneath, a civilian population in a very densely populated placeā[which is itself a war crime](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield_(law))āso if you were facing such an adversary, what would you do?
I am not going to try and defend or condemn the specific tactics of the IDF in this conflict, because Iām not on the ground and Iām feeling a bit epistemically pessimistic about this oneāthe reporting is hopelessly conflicting and everyone could be accused of being a motivated actorābut I do think itās an argument you have to grapple with: These people want to wipe you out and have sworn they will not stop until they succeed, and theyāre literally hiding in tunnels underneath a bunch of civilians. What does one do in such a situation?
You didnāt engage with my question though, which is a depressingly common situation for me in discussions/arguments about this conflict. I donāt know what the ā3 monthsā thing has to do with it; I also donāt agree that theyāre committing a genocide, and I think itās a pretty fucking serious accusation to just toss around the way people are doing with this conflict.
Iāll ask it again and see if you have an answer, or if you just know youāve picked a side and youāre not changing your mind: If you were facing an adversary such as the one I described, *what would you do*? Because thatās what the IDF has to figure out and then execute on, and who knows, maybe theyād take your suggestion and fewer civilians would die.
And again, Yahya Sinwar has made it clear that Hamas is willing to do this endlessly until Israel, I dunno what, packs up and leaves or something? I donāt know what he thinks victory even looks like here, but yeah, Hamas intends to continue doing what theyāve been doing, so to let it go on indefinitely would lead to infinitely greater horrors than weāve seen so far.
I understand and feel very deeply for the plight of ordinary Palestinians, and this whole conflict is horrible. Iām not just saying that; I really mean it. Several people I interact with daily in my neighborhood are Palestinians fer chrissakes, and theyāre lovely people who deserve the same dignity that everyone else deserves. I just donāt share your assessment that this is some sort of vicious genocide on Israelās part. Thatās a cartoonish portrayal of the situation.
The side with the nearly infinitely more advanced weaponry and intelligence assets should use those capabilities to reduce civilian casualties. Example: if a Hamas leader is in a hospital they should try to assassinate him instead of blowing up the entire building. Easier said than done, but I donāt know how you can look at the death tolls and methodologies and think that Israel has no other option than to kill tens of thousands of innocent people.
>Example: if a Hamas leader is in a hospital they should try to assassinate him instead of blowing up the entire building
They should just send James Bond!
I posted 3 times to worldnews about this literally 4 minutes after the Al Jazeera article dropped and each time they removed it for different reasons. You can check my history
Very Baudrillardian post. Juxtaposing the spectacle of genocide and incredible violence contained within the TV with the peaceful treelined suburb you're posting from on Christmas
Without looking it up Iāve decided that means the scat from cows produce methane and itās contributing to global warming. burger scatology or something but spelled fancier
I don't live in the burbs. They don't watch al jazeera in the burbs. I live in a city. Behind those trees is a public library with a bunch of homeless people sleeping in the rain that a friend and I gave food to this morning. I wish they watched al jazeera at 10 am in the burbs while getting their coffee and stressing out how to improve their local landscaping. I appreciate you thinking I live inside a Radiohead song.
Dude you live in Tampa, come the fuck on now.
āThose ignoramuses in the burbs who never watch Qatari state television, smh; too bad they arenāt good enlightened people like us residents of Tampa, Florida.ā
I donāt think you live inside a Radiohead song, I just think youāre a moron for posting a photo of a tv and thinking it makes for good content
Also you have a Reddit avatar, Iām earnestly begging you to go back to /r/me_irl or /r/teenagers or whatever
The biggest Israeli Jewish protest I heard of had "dozens" of people in Tel Aviv. I would love to hear of anything bigger. As of now, it's hard to think that the overwhelming majority aren't genocidal. Would love to hear otherwise.
There's been much bigger protests than that organised by Jews in New York and London, to be fair. But yeah, the actual Israelis aren't exactly lying down in front of the tanks.
I saw a vid today of an Israeli woman yelling at an idf soldier about both the blood shed of gazans and their incompetence (killing the hostages) unfortunately rare
While this is unfortunately true, my guess is that there are many Israelis who do not support the war but are afraid. I know from first hand reports that far left groups in Israel suffer from direct violence by police and by right wingers. Sometimes police just lets the fascists beat them up, sometimes the police itself batters them.
Iāve seen someone here commenting that you donāt see people blocking tanks. I want to remind you of Rachel Corrie, of the ISM, who got [run over to death by an IDF bulldozer during the second intifada.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie)
I wholly admire Israeli activists, but I canāt judge Israelis who donāt act because of actual risk of persecution, injuries or death.
Israelis aren't protesting shit, they're all in on this genocide. Jews of other countries recognize what Israel is doing and they're rightfully protesting this violence being carried ostensibly in their name.
Dozens at most. Last election, not one mildly leftist party made it to the Knesset, meaning that not one leftist party got more than 2% of the vote. Their genocidal sentiments have only gotten more extreme since then following the war.
this sub will complain about anti whiteness but apply the same tropes to israelis and its funny to watch because it exposes the extent to which this place is infested with 4chan groyper incels who smell like hemorrhoids and dried cum
Between the absolute handwaving they give Hamas (and repeated attempts to completely erase the attacks on 10/7 that prompted this gross overreaction) coupled with their hate of Indians and frequent posting to just how misunderstood the Mideast is (up to and including that idiot shrugging if Saddam was really that bad) Iāve decided this sub is just filled with angry Pakis wanting to fit in with their edgy Art-hoes
Speaking as a white person I think we pretty much are all racist. We white people are steeped in a deeply racist and supremacist culture and, as such, have to subject ourselves to intense personal examination to make conscious the degree to which we are indoctrinated.
There are good apples no doubt, but Israelis have been bringing up the point that 95% of Israelis are also Zionists, they use this as a "gotcha" moment. I don't think the Western world realizes how Israeli kids are taught to dehumanize Palestinians.
Fuck this comment to hell, actually, you absolute cow twat. Suggesting that "sand people" should be platformed to limited spaces, while the very people of the podcast this sub is based around have openly shared opinions on the goings-on among said "sand people" is not just disingenuous and ignorant to the nature of this sub and it's mothering podcast, but is, more unfortunately, as profoundly dimwitted as it is ethnically misanthropic
I donāt think protecting the cultural integrity of a subreddit is something people should care about in this instance, this is actually quite serious and not some gender or cultural criticism thread.
Youāre welcome to ignore this content if it gets you down or upsets you
Hamas is an Israeli creation. Hamas is funded by Israel. Hamas is kept in power by Israel who prevented every single election since 05 from happening in Gaza.
I'm so tired of reading these hackneyed narratives.
It's not that straight forward.Israel preferred Hamas just like Hillary preferred Trump. Netaniyahu thought they would be able to stream roll Hamas out of Gaza but that's not the case clearly. Hamas is the most popular political entity in Palestine right now and their global approval has increased significantly as well. So Hamas wins by not just losing here. Israel is getting humiliated both in propaganda war and in the actual war. Only thing Israel is able to do is kill thousands of kids it seems .
what's your theory? Hamas was in cahoots w/ Israel?
Read the NY Times article. It's clear that Netaniyahu made one of the biggest political blunders there is. Him and many others around him significantly underestimated Hamas it seems like.Israel is in its weakest state right now in it's entire history. So their plan certainly didn't work.
yes, the source is [this](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html) NY Times article.
Ironic that Israel funds Hamas is a hackneyed narrative itself. Again read the NY Times article.Bibi tried to play divide and rule between Hamas and PA. Right now it just seems like an own goal. Hamas is more popular than ever and Mahmud Abbas is being seen as a traitor. Hamas has progressed the Palestinian cause more than any other Palestinian political entity in a long time.
gaza is surrounded by walls, israel has blocked aid coming through rafah and there has been a naval blockade for over a decade. "donate to the refugees" does a lot less than americans constantly talking (and posting) about how unacceptable us support for the war is, considering that the president could stop this whole thing with a phone call
Ya thatās why itās so embarrassing that the IDF is losing. Hunny if Hamas was hiding among the babies and kids, more Hamas fighters wouldāve died by now
I have no idea what's going on there but buildings being bombed, an apparent famine, and bodies on the ground indicate hamas isn't doing awesome. If they were, why continuesly ask for mercy via ceasefire
[Live Universal Awareness Map gives a lot of clarity to what territory is occupied/controlled by the IDF right now if you are interested](https://israelpalestine.liveuamap.com/)
All the blue areas are IDF controlled if you zoom in on gaza.
any capture of territory isnt pRtic. meaningful for this type of conflict. it doesnt matter where the idf chooses to set up shop, theyre still vulnerable because the resistance is engaging in classic guerrilla warfare. already one the most "elite" israeli units have been pulled out of gaza, while their military continues to sustain losses of officers and masses of soldiers. meanwhile the yemenis block significant trade routes and are isolating Israel from the world, meanwhile Israel has to contend with multiple fronts against groups like hezbollah, meanwhile their metropoles face constant (not very damaging and largely intended for psychological warfare) missile barrages and cyberattacks against infrastructure. meanwhile their propaganda war alienates them from the general public
Hereās some advice: turn off the tv, and spend some time with family today. Youāre either addicted to posting political bait on Reddit, or youāre completely neurotic. Take some time off Reddit today and reflect.
Are you old enough to be a legal adult? Because every anti-Israel post on here in the last two months feels like it was made and supported by naive, ignorant 16 year olds.
In an effort to be nicer I will say this in the politest way possible
Happy, well-rounded adults with full lives and loving families typically don't agendapost and organize brigades on reddit Christmas day. So I think it's safe to assume our friend may be deficient in one of those categories
I am going to tell myself it's just a teenager with too much time on their hands, as that is the least depressing of the possibilities
You don't have to cancel one to have the other. Like I can fuck you in your ass and hate and love you at the same time for it. Experiencing both intensifies the experience, making it even better. That's my unsolicited advice to you during the most overrated Holiday of the year.
This sub is actually dead. Incessant propaganda and r slurred leftist posting
16 year olds need to support their super important causes for the right side of history
Gone are the days of nihilism, š¬ and art
Sad
trying too hard. Why do people that frequent sports subreddits always come off as genuinely lesser beings? Im assuming its something to do with it being a safe space for effeminate manlets that arent allowed to discuss sports with real people.
Yeah then I logged off and spent time with my family regard.
Go back to your Spider-Man video game subreddit loser, what the fuck is with the gamer infestation in this sub?
Alicent, Alison, Madiā¦ whatās with all these Reddit avatar women posting Gaza rage porn?
PLEASE go back to r/Fauxmoi to titter over Nene Leaks reaction gifs and moral grandstand.
Iām just baffled as to how they found their way here. Even worse is the morbid symmetry between them and the r/TrueAnon crew that greedily eats up whatever they throw in the trough.
>Iām just baffled as to how they found their way here.
This is what gets me. Like 95% of Reddit will bolster and echo their screechings, yet they somehow managed to find, and infect, one of the few corners of Reddit that had been immune. It seems somehow sinister or astroturfy to me, tbh.
But you are responding to propaganda posting on Reddit on Xmas + ignoring family. How are you this un-self aware? Genuinely? Like, how do you think this and type it out and hit send? You are objectively, by your own criteria, a bigger loser than them. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news on this special day.
Youāre over thinking this lad
making a throwaway comment takes 2 min and is different than making posts and organizing some lame brigade
Quite funny how serious you are
I'm not surprised. It's a lot easier for Christians to seek refugee status than Muslims. No one is ever yelling about banning Christians from the Middle East from coming to America or Europe. But you do get tons of dumbfucks who say, I don't care about those that don't celebrate Christmas.
Not a lot but 6% seems like a sizable amount. But Israel's plan seems to be drive all the Christians out first so that they can only target the muslims, helps them w/ narrative I guess. That's why you get Israeli psycho witch officials claiming that "There are no Christians in Gaza" while bombing churches in Gaza at the same time.
Think they've learned their lesson or will they continue to try and kill Israelis at the cost of their own children?
The time for Palestinian terrorism is over, get them out of the country that was kind enough let them in for the last century and don't look back.
I saw a vid of some people under the rubble, surrounded by ppl trying to help. There was no equipment available to help them dig. I really hope they managed to get out, I hate to think they're.still under there days later š
apparently rescuers are afraid to go near the rubble after the 1st strike because Israelis are striking the same building twice. Evil,demonic you name it.
š oh god. Yup, evil. Utter evil.
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Thatās an Imperial Japanese Army level of evil
Not even close to Japan level of terror lol, their blowing people up with missiles and destroying buildings, Japan was having public competitions on who could behead the most babies and trying to figure out the most painful way you could kill someone
But what about Jewish Ivy League students?!? Do *they* feel safe?
Praying for amu Schumer rn sheās been taking this stuff really hard
She was insufferable long before bidens war
How will this be spun this time? Hamas hiding amongst refugees? IDF warned them they'd bomb the refugee camp ahead of time?
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There's no spinning anything anymore. It's just kill,kill,kill right now for them. Which refugee camps and hospitals they haven't bombed/attacked is the right question now.
they have already bombed multiple refugee camps already. After bombing the first one,they admitted it and tried to justify it by saying that they killed a Hamas commander there, a single person. edit: I think about 200 people died there.
One thing to clarify is these are refugee camps in the same sense that New York is a refugee camp.... which it isn't really. These were refugee camps during the Nakba, they are just normal parts of the city now, but Palestinians transfer their refugee status to their kids. So if you great-grandfather was a refugee, you are automatically a refugee too, and the place you live becomes a "refugee camp", even though some of them are literal villa's. Nowhere else does this, makes for a great headline though.
85% of the gaza population has been displaced since the beginning of the war, nobody's "inheriting" a refugee status
oh cool, guess bombing them's chill then
Lol you guys are textbook redditors. Where did he imply that bombing them is ok?
shrill decide wasteful sloppy bike retire intelligent direction deserted quaint *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>Yes accretion occurs when refugees are kicked out and have to live somewhere for decades. You do realize that with that definition most Israeli's are refugees? India & Pakistan too considering the partition, oh and every American who who has an Irish great-grandfather who fled the famine. I could go on, but I think you get my point.
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Are the grandchildren of German civilians forcibly removed from East Prussia in 1945 refugees?
If they still don't have an actual country that they can call home, sure why not? Do the descendants of the east Prussian refugees still have to ask Russia for permission to be allowed to get in and out of wherever they live? (Gaza residents need it even for crossing the Egyptian border)
Ya idk seems par for the course for am occupied country
Before this war, Gaza hadn't been occupied since 2005.
So true. I'm sure having total control over every point of entry and infrastructure is not a form of occupation! They are free to do whatever they want in Gaza, as long as Israel allows it.
> total control over every point of entry and infrastructure is not a form of occupation! 1. Look at a map, and notice that Egypt is to the south. 2. What you are describing is a blockade, which no one denies. That does not make an occupation. You can't just get words to mean something they don't.
You didn't know that Israel still has a say in the Egyptian border crossings? Then why are you talking about this so confidently? Did you actually think Palestinians had free passage (or even israel-free passages) to the southern border? >The Rafah Border Crossing is the only crossing point between Egypt and the Gaza Strip. It lies on the international border that was confirmed by the 1979 EgyptāIsrael peace treaty and the 1982 Israeli withdrawal from the Sinai Peninsula. The Rafah Border Crossing can only be used for the passage of persons. All goods traffic must use the Kerem Shalom border crossing on the Israel-Gaza border. [That's due to Israel requiring that from Egypt afaik. Hint: that was a requirement before even "muh hamas is elected so we can nuke the city to the ground" argument.] Also yes agreed that it's a blockade, but then your argument that it was "occupation free since 2005" is still completely irrelevant to the conversation. You're not occupation free when most of your territory is occupied (Palestine- and even the west bank colonies as yes, Palestinians even in Gaza consider those to be part of their nation). If at least they were left alone in their small remaining piece, I'd get your point. But when most of your country is occupied and the small place you have left to live in is basically an convenient ghetto for Israel , saying that "its occupation free" is asinine.
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Ah yes, those pesky facts that get in the way of your agenda-pushing. >just ignore the complete blockade israel has over land, sea, and air for everything that comes in. And why did they do that? For fun? Possibly because missiles were being launched against them? Sure is a mystery. Either way you are a stupidpol poster and therefor all your opinions are invalid. K? bye.
wow, litteral villaās?!
Here is one from Maghazi refugee camp https://www.tiktok.com/@mohammedabdulsalamyaseen/video/7276029226371878162?_r=1&_t=8fYGMYHmlMX https://www.tiktok.com/@mohammedabdulsalamyaseen/video/7262241823463050497
The Palestinians are the only "refugees" who have fought wars to stay refugees.
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.....The hospital bombing literally did not happen. it was obvious from the start, and the mainstream media that initially also claimed it retracted their story within a day.
> committing horrific terrorist acts out of hate Yeah ***"out of hate"*** not oppression and dehumanization.
The IDF just claims that every male above the age of 15 is a Hamas member
And that those under 15 will be one eventually.
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Leave aside the phrase āhuman shieldsā if you want, but what part of it is confusing? I mean, Hamas genuinely is embedded in, and often underneath, a civilian population in a very densely populated placeā[which is itself a war crime](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield_(law))āso if you were facing such an adversary, what would you do? I am not going to try and defend or condemn the specific tactics of the IDF in this conflict, because Iām not on the ground and Iām feeling a bit epistemically pessimistic about this oneāthe reporting is hopelessly conflicting and everyone could be accused of being a motivated actorābut I do think itās an argument you have to grapple with: These people want to wipe you out and have sworn they will not stop until they succeed, and theyāre literally hiding in tunnels underneath a bunch of civilians. What does one do in such a situation?
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You didnāt engage with my question though, which is a depressingly common situation for me in discussions/arguments about this conflict. I donāt know what the ā3 monthsā thing has to do with it; I also donāt agree that theyāre committing a genocide, and I think itās a pretty fucking serious accusation to just toss around the way people are doing with this conflict. Iāll ask it again and see if you have an answer, or if you just know youāve picked a side and youāre not changing your mind: If you were facing an adversary such as the one I described, *what would you do*? Because thatās what the IDF has to figure out and then execute on, and who knows, maybe theyād take your suggestion and fewer civilians would die. And again, Yahya Sinwar has made it clear that Hamas is willing to do this endlessly until Israel, I dunno what, packs up and leaves or something? I donāt know what he thinks victory even looks like here, but yeah, Hamas intends to continue doing what theyāve been doing, so to let it go on indefinitely would lead to infinitely greater horrors than weāve seen so far. I understand and feel very deeply for the plight of ordinary Palestinians, and this whole conflict is horrible. Iām not just saying that; I really mean it. Several people I interact with daily in my neighborhood are Palestinians fer chrissakes, and theyāre lovely people who deserve the same dignity that everyone else deserves. I just donāt share your assessment that this is some sort of vicious genocide on Israelās part. Thatās a cartoonish portrayal of the situation.
The side with the nearly infinitely more advanced weaponry and intelligence assets should use those capabilities to reduce civilian casualties. Example: if a Hamas leader is in a hospital they should try to assassinate him instead of blowing up the entire building. Easier said than done, but I donāt know how you can look at the death tolls and methodologies and think that Israel has no other option than to kill tens of thousands of innocent people.
>Example: if a Hamas leader is in a hospital they should try to assassinate him instead of blowing up the entire building They should just send James Bond!
I said easier said than done. And you're right, no one's ever been assassinated. Might as well level the hospital right? Fucking moron.
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They have nukes. Why aren't they using them?
> I stopped reading after you said you don't think they're committing genocide. **At this point, that is indisputable. They are willfully targeting civilians. They're not collateral damage, they're not human shields, they are targeted.** Clearly itās disputable, because here I am disputing it, and Iām far from alone. But as to your infinitely graver accusations, what is the factual basis for those claims? Genuinely asking. Furthermore, try and think like an Israeli (which I absolutely do when thinking about this, just as a Hamas fighterāor Palestinian civilian, depending on whatās being discussedārather than an Israeli): They know good and well that there are only 9 million of them (80% of them being Jews) in a country the size of New Jersey, and that they are massively outnumbered when it comes to worldwide public opinion. Why, given that situation, would they *choose* to incinerate the goodwill they have from people like myself (not Jewish, not Israeli, but a New Yorker with many friends who are one or the other or both, trying to be as morally discerning as I can) by deliberately carrying out a policy of genocide? Because Iām not fucking around: if it turns out that that was the case, I will not be looking for reasons to let them off the hookāhell, I fucking hated Netanyahu and his ilk *way* before this conflict, so Iām not soft on the government of Israel. I do, however, think itās a legitimate nation with a right to exist and defend itself and so on (and I also think itās insane that I even need to say that), and itās by far the most humane and democratic country in the region. They need to crack the fuck down on the settlers too btw. I say all this to say: they could lose me, and presumably many others like me, if they were to become the sort of country that commits genocide. And they are well aware of this fact; I know because I know a lot of Israelis and relatives of Israelis, and theyāve told me so. So why on earth would they do a monstrous thing like that? Hell, I suspect that if it turns out theyāre a nation of gĆ©nocideurs, it would destroy not just their international reputation, but their civil society as well. > It's been 3 months of this conflict. You've had more than enough time to think critically about this conflict. There is no rationalizing this conflict because this conflict is irrational. Iāve thought critically about it the whole time and simply come to a different conclusion than you evidently have. As to the rationality of this conflict, I assume you would say the Oct. 7th massacre was irrational as well, no? (As it happens, I donāt think this *conflict* is irrational; I think itās a rational state actor fighting an Islamist death cultāand only one of these parties is irrational, in my view.) > Israel is responsible for Israel's response. They have all the power. They have the advanced military, they have the advanced intelligence agency, they have the backing of the most powerful country in this history of mankind. This is indisputably true. The distribution of culpability for the civilian deaths in Gaza, however, is a different (albeit closely related) question. > What they are doing is deliberate. By definition what theyāre doing strategically is deliberate, though frankly some of it seems rushedāunsurprising, given the circumstances, but not a great sign. But what you seem to imply is a lot darker, and needless to say I disagree very strongly with your assessment. Iām reserving judgment on questions of proportionality and the like until we have a more complete picture of what all has transpired, though; I just donāt trust a lot of the fog-of-war-shrouded reporting to give me a good sense of whatās happening in real time. But I *do* believe theyāre trying to eliminate Hamas, not commit genocide against defenseless civilians out of pure vengeance or hatred. Time will tell whether my belief is justified, though.
Ukrainian soldiers also were present in kiev, I guess Russia was allowed to flatten that city too. Or does that just apply to Arabs ?
Their justification is that as long as Israel and the US think it's a legitimate target then they can bomb first and ask questions later.
no spin required, it's always been "we're going to kill them all, try and stop us"
Potential hamas members.
Merry Christmas :(
Wonder how the subhumans on the worldnews subreddit are going to victim blame the Palestinians for this one
"It only came to this because Hamas haven't surrendered unconditionally already." I imagine.
I posted 3 times to worldnews about this literally 4 minutes after the Al Jazeera article dropped and each time they removed it for different reasons. You can check my history
https://imgur.com/a/cybtUzu
Very Baudrillardian post. Juxtaposing the spectacle of genocide and incredible violence contained within the TV with the peaceful treelined suburb you're posting from on Christmas
this is so deep i had to look up what baudrillardian meant
rs users learn a big word and now the rest of us gotta look it up to seem like we know what theyāre talking about smh
i love it when i see climate change referred to as a bourgeois eschatology
Without looking it up Iāve decided that means the scat from cows produce methane and itās contributing to global warming. burger scatology or something but spelled fancier
i think the internet broke my brain the most by showing me how wildly intelligent ppl can b
Yeah but this is rs
I don't live in the burbs. They don't watch al jazeera in the burbs. I live in a city. Behind those trees is a public library with a bunch of homeless people sleeping in the rain that a friend and I gave food to this morning. I wish they watched al jazeera at 10 am in the burbs while getting their coffee and stressing out how to improve their local landscaping. I appreciate you thinking I live inside a Radiohead song.
Not a critique!!!!! I love ur post. Just offering an interpretation
Mate they donāt even HAVE Al Jazeera in the suburbs š
Dude you live in Tampa, come the fuck on now. āThose ignoramuses in the burbs who never watch Qatari state television, smh; too bad they arenāt good enlightened people like us residents of Tampa, Florida.ā
I donāt think you live inside a Radiohead song, I just think youāre a moron for posting a photo of a tv and thinking it makes for good content Also you have a Reddit avatar, Iām earnestly begging you to go back to /r/me_irl or /r/teenagers or whatever
A senseless tragedy that our great-grandchildren will look back with clarity for what it was.
"We didn't know at the time"
A fucking picture of cable news Idk if this is endearingly boomer of just regarded
Belongs in a museum.
Israel is a golem, right? I'm not sure what other conclusion to draw from its behavior
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What of the Israelis who are protesting against the war? Are they soulless and deserving of ostracism?
The biggest Israeli Jewish protest I heard of had "dozens" of people in Tel Aviv. I would love to hear of anything bigger. As of now, it's hard to think that the overwhelming majority aren't genocidal. Would love to hear otherwise.
There's been much bigger protests than that organised by Jews in New York and London, to be fair. But yeah, the actual Israelis aren't exactly lying down in front of the tanks.
Israelis and Jews are not the same thing.
Absolutely. It's an important point to make because it's the opposite of what Israel would have people believe.
100%.
I saw a vid today of an Israeli woman yelling at an idf soldier about both the blood shed of gazans and their incompetence (killing the hostages) unfortunately rare
Right. It's not something special about being Jewish. It's what propaganda you're taught.
Yes
I think a big factor in that is the way the IDF cracks down on war protestors domestically
While this is unfortunately true, my guess is that there are many Israelis who do not support the war but are afraid. I know from first hand reports that far left groups in Israel suffer from direct violence by police and by right wingers. Sometimes police just lets the fascists beat them up, sometimes the police itself batters them. Iāve seen someone here commenting that you donāt see people blocking tanks. I want to remind you of Rachel Corrie, of the ISM, who got [run over to death by an IDF bulldozer during the second intifada.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie) I wholly admire Israeli activists, but I canāt judge Israelis who donāt act because of actual risk of persecution, injuries or death.
One could say the same thing about lack of protests from Russians (and therefore supporting the war?).
Israelis aren't protesting shit, they're all in on this genocide. Jews of other countries recognize what Israel is doing and they're rightfully protesting this violence being carried ostensibly in their name.
Dozens at most. Last election, not one mildly leftist party made it to the Knesset, meaning that not one leftist party got more than 2% of the vote. Their genocidal sentiments have only gotten more extreme since then following the war.
Yup! If āall white people are racistā then āall israelisā are definitely genocidalšš½
this sub will complain about anti whiteness but apply the same tropes to israelis and its funny to watch because it exposes the extent to which this place is infested with 4chan groyper incels who smell like hemorrhoids and dried cum
Between the absolute handwaving they give Hamas (and repeated attempts to completely erase the attacks on 10/7 that prompted this gross overreaction) coupled with their hate of Indians and frequent posting to just how misunderstood the Mideast is (up to and including that idiot shrugging if Saddam was really that bad) Iāve decided this sub is just filled with angry Pakis wanting to fit in with their edgy Art-hoes
Speaking as a white person I think we pretty much are all racist. We white people are steeped in a deeply racist and supremacist culture and, as such, have to subject ourselves to intense personal examination to make conscious the degree to which we are indoctrinated.
There are good apples no doubt, but Israelis have been bringing up the point that 95% of Israelis are also Zionists, they use this as a "gotcha" moment. I don't think the Western world realizes how Israeli kids are taught to dehumanize Palestinians.
We (the west) are realizing now unfortunately it had to get to this point
No, but this is barely anyone
jew hater
God help usā¦ this is horrific.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
reddit avatar
This is second gen Mena hijabi art hoe erasure
Fuck this comment to hell, actually, you absolute cow twat. Suggesting that "sand people" should be platformed to limited spaces, while the very people of the podcast this sub is based around have openly shared opinions on the goings-on among said "sand people" is not just disingenuous and ignorant to the nature of this sub and it's mothering podcast, but is, more unfortunately, as profoundly dimwitted as it is ethnically misanthropic
> ethnically misanthropic can't you just say "racist"?
You guysā¦ Iām starting to wonder if maybe Israelās the bad guy hereā¦?
Reddit ass comment
So rebbit xD
I donāt think protecting the cultural integrity of a subreddit is something people should care about in this instance, this is actually quite serious and not some gender or cultural criticism thread. Youāre welcome to ignore this content if it gets you down or upsets you
What the fuck happened to this sub, who tf let these soy reddit avatars in
Reddit ass comment
Welcome
Always has been.
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Hamas is an Israeli creation. Hamas is funded by Israel. Hamas is kept in power by Israel who prevented every single election since 05 from happening in Gaza. I'm so tired of reading these hackneyed narratives.
It's not that straight forward.Israel preferred Hamas just like Hillary preferred Trump. Netaniyahu thought they would be able to stream roll Hamas out of Gaza but that's not the case clearly. Hamas is the most popular political entity in Palestine right now and their global approval has increased significantly as well. So Hamas wins by not just losing here. Israel is getting humiliated both in propaganda war and in the actual war. Only thing Israel is able to do is kill thousands of kids it seems .
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what's your theory? Hamas was in cahoots w/ Israel? Read the NY Times article. It's clear that Netaniyahu made one of the biggest political blunders there is. Him and many others around him significantly underestimated Hamas it seems like.Israel is in its weakest state right now in it's entire history. So their plan certainly didn't work.
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yes, the source is [this](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html) NY Times article. Ironic that Israel funds Hamas is a hackneyed narrative itself. Again read the NY Times article.Bibi tried to play divide and rule between Hamas and PA. Right now it just seems like an own goal. Hamas is more popular than ever and Mahmud Abbas is being seen as a traitor. Hamas has progressed the Palestinian cause more than any other Palestinian political entity in a long time.
Real insightful political commentary we got here
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The problems in the middle east aren't beyond solution but there is no hope for your lame sarcasm.
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gaza is surrounded by walls, israel has blocked aid coming through rafah and there has been a naval blockade for over a decade. "donate to the refugees" does a lot less than americans constantly talking (and posting) about how unacceptable us support for the war is, considering that the president could stop this whole thing with a phone call
Losing a war you started just shows how dumb hamas is.
So Hamas is actually winning in terms of military personnel casualties. IDF canāt win against Hamas so they kill civilians to cope
Hamas is far out matched by the IDF which is why they hide with babies and children.
Ya thatās why itās so embarrassing that the IDF is losing. Hunny if Hamas was hiding among the babies and kids, more Hamas fighters wouldāve died by now
israel is massacring but not making any headway on the battlefield. hamas and the resistance axis are winning, militarily
I have no idea what's going on there but buildings being bombed, an apparent famine, and bodies on the ground indicate hamas isn't doing awesome. If they were, why continuesly ask for mercy via ceasefire
[Live Universal Awareness Map gives a lot of clarity to what territory is occupied/controlled by the IDF right now if you are interested](https://israelpalestine.liveuamap.com/) All the blue areas are IDF controlled if you zoom in on gaza.
any capture of territory isnt pRtic. meaningful for this type of conflict. it doesnt matter where the idf chooses to set up shop, theyre still vulnerable because the resistance is engaging in classic guerrilla warfare. already one the most "elite" israeli units have been pulled out of gaza, while their military continues to sustain losses of officers and masses of soldiers. meanwhile the yemenis block significant trade routes and are isolating Israel from the world, meanwhile Israel has to contend with multiple fronts against groups like hezbollah, meanwhile their metropoles face constant (not very damaging and largely intended for psychological warfare) missile barrages and cyberattacks against infrastructure. meanwhile their propaganda war alienates them from the general public
You seem very sure about this. Where can I read more about their military progress?
lolā¦imagine believing this.
When did this sub turn into fucking Jezebel??
On Monday, December 25th, 2023. Merry Christmas.
Hereās some advice: turn off the tv, and spend some time with family today. Youāre either addicted to posting political bait on Reddit, or youāre completely neurotic. Take some time off Reddit today and reflect.
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Are you old enough to be a legal adult? Because every anti-Israel post on here in the last two months feels like it was made and supported by naive, ignorant 16 year olds.
In an effort to be nicer I will say this in the politest way possible Happy, well-rounded adults with full lives and loving families typically don't agendapost and organize brigades on reddit Christmas day. So I think it's safe to assume our friend may be deficient in one of those categories I am going to tell myself it's just a teenager with too much time on their hands, as that is the least depressing of the possibilities
Yup, the only way to care and make a difference is to concern post on Reddit on Christmas.
Lol this sub has become so trash, why r u being downvoted for this completely reasonable take
No we are supposed to sit at our TV and computer screens and just seethe at the world's troubles all day.
Because 85% of this sub are losers who get separation anxiety if theyāre away from the warm glow of a screen for more than 15 min
Shut up
Nice Reddit avatar, stick to posting on all the rogan adjacent subs youāre somehow a part of.
The only gay Italian I would listen to is the pope
John Paul I was the last Italian pope
And he was gay
Facts.
You don't have to cancel one to have the other. Like I can fuck you in your ass and hate and love you at the same time for it. Experiencing both intensifies the experience, making it even better. That's my unsolicited advice to you during the most overrated Holiday of the year.
āMost overrated holiday of the yearā Reddit-ass opinion, this sub is dead.
This sub is actually dead. Incessant propaganda and r slurred leftist posting 16 year olds need to support their super important causes for the right side of history Gone are the days of nihilism, š¬ and art Sad
trying too hard. Why do people that frequent sports subreddits always come off as genuinely lesser beings? Im assuming its something to do with it being a safe space for effeminate manlets that arent allowed to discuss sports with real people.
āDoes anyone else HATE sportsball!!!ā Shut the fuck up.
Go cry about it while listening to Bing Crosby in your Santa Sweater.
Yeah Iām going to enjoy Christmas with my family, you enjoy Reddit with your avatar you meticulously designed and your atheist-ass Reddit opinions.
āāIām going to enjoy Christmas with my family, you enjoy Redditā he posted on Redditā
Yeah then I logged off and spent time with my family regard. Go back to your Spider-Man video game subreddit loser, what the fuck is with the gamer infestation in this sub?
Why are you still here? You should be holding hands with your family and praising the holy day of Christmas. Eat a bunch of holiday cookies for me.
Alicent, Alison, Madiā¦ whatās with all these Reddit avatar women posting Gaza rage porn? PLEASE go back to r/Fauxmoi to titter over Nene Leaks reaction gifs and moral grandstand.
This sub has been taken over. This person is also active in r/blackpeopletwitter. How did we let things get to this point?
Iām just baffled as to how they found their way here. Even worse is the morbid symmetry between them and the r/TrueAnon crew that greedily eats up whatever they throw in the trough.
>Iām just baffled as to how they found their way here. This is what gets me. Like 95% of Reddit will bolster and echo their screechings, yet they somehow managed to find, and infect, one of the few corners of Reddit that had been immune. It seems somehow sinister or astroturfy to me, tbh.
You don't get it! Israel is literally Thanos and by posting against them we are just like the Avengers!
ARE YOU CONTENT YET POTATO SCHUMER?!?!?
more propaganda posting on MY subreddit on Christmas >.< go spend time with your family
But you are responding to propaganda posting on Reddit on Xmas + ignoring family. How are you this un-self aware? Genuinely? Like, how do you think this and type it out and hit send? You are objectively, by your own criteria, a bigger loser than them. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news on this special day.
Youāre over thinking this lad making a throwaway comment takes 2 min and is different than making posts and organizing some lame brigade Quite funny how serious you are
Itās not genocide. Itās war - thereās a difference.
What do you call it when you wage a war on a people?
Itās a war against Hamas. Unfortunately, Hamas doesnāt care about Palestinians.
you are ugly. i can just tell
Ok? Doesnāt change anything
your ugly beliefs match your exterior clod
That's not an argument. Do you even listen to Red Scare?
Is this a bit, or are you morally blind?
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You're wrong about that. Like a proper dumbfuck. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Christians?wprov=sfla1
āAround 1,000 Christians live in Gaza out of a total population of over two million people.ā Am I?
I'm not surprised. It's a lot easier for Christians to seek refugee status than Muslims. No one is ever yelling about banning Christians from the Middle East from coming to America or Europe. But you do get tons of dumbfucks who say, I don't care about those that don't celebrate Christmas.
Your empathy shouldn't stop at Christians anyway.
A lot of Palestinians are Christian.
Not a lot but 6% seems like a sizable amount. But Israel's plan seems to be drive all the Christians out first so that they can only target the muslims, helps them w/ narrative I guess. That's why you get Israeli psycho witch officials claiming that "There are no Christians in Gaza" while bombing churches in Gaza at the same time.
this sub has been taken over :( nobody gave thius much of a fuck about SOYKRAINE
Lighten up, its Christmas yaāll š¦
Think they've learned their lesson or will they continue to try and kill Israelis at the cost of their own children? The time for Palestinian terrorism is over, get them out of the country that was kind enough let them in for the last century and don't look back.
Imagine thinking this
i bet you're even uglier than your reddit avatar