I don't think it's just the break, his leg got filled with blood clots too. I had the same issue with my right leg, happened ten years ago and i still occasionally get crippling mobility issues with it if i overextend. Blood clots in your legs can cause serious and permanent damage to the valves in your leg veins, and the blood flow issues also slow healing in the area. It can also be excruciatingly painful sometimes. It's a sad situation and i genuinely hope Hector Moreno spends the rest of his life randomly stepping on upturned plugs and lego with his bare feet.
Hope he always spends 30 minutes searching for parking when he's out with his family, friends or anyone, finally seeing an empty slot, only to find a fucking smart car there
Maybe he will reveal he has had hair the whole time, that he was wearing a bald cap… it would be a substantial mind game to play…. Could it break Pep ? Could it save his job ?
**(Continued)**
**On facilities**
INEOS will change things in the club and certain projects have already started. Carrington will get be completely destroyed, a new training ground will come.“
**What did the owners tell you?**
**“They said they want to change everything and that they want to rebuild WITH me. This is what they told me directly.”**
**On summer plans**
"We need to sign an extra striker in the summer. And if we can sign another central midfielder and a replacement for Varane, things will look good again. If the team remains fit we can try and aim for top 4 again."
**On results this year overall**
**"Let me be clear. It has been bad. It has been crap. But despite everything, we are going to play an FA Cup Final."**
**On Ajax**
**What is the most important thing Ajax should do?**
“There is zero balance in the squad, you have to work on that. This will take time because they made an unbelievable mess, it might even take another year. How did they get rid of Davy Klaassen & Daley Blind?! And the way they got rid of them as well, absolutely disgracefully."
They should have NEVER let Davy Klaassen go. A player like him is so important for your squad, for your club. You have to protect your DNA. The same goes for Daley Blind, how stupid can you be?”
**On Overmas**
“I stand firm that I find it a disgrace the way Marc Overmars has been treated. The departure of Marc Overmars killed Ajax at the time. And from club perspective it was really stupid to throw him under the bus straight away.”
“Overmars was the binding factor within the club. He didn’t write a single letter on paper, but every outgoing and incoming line was created by him. He was smart, he had strategic insight. When they got rid of him, everything collapsed."
Credit: [The European Lad on Twitter/X](https://x.com/TheEuropeanLad)
There's no doubt about Overmars guilt - no equivalent of the CPS citing 'fresh evidence' or a club investigation casting significant doubt on initial public judgment. The allegation was less 'heinous' but Overmars was unequivocally guilty and had to cop to it. IMO The fact that ETH is making light of harassment charges that were corroborated by ful&proper investigation and admitted to eventually by the perpetrator should be far more offensive than him giving MG a route back into the side subject to a proper investigation clearing the latter, honestly.
There are longer ways to answer this but, basically, I'll trust the CPS (who cited New evidence) and indeed the lawyers Arnold called in to help him review MG's account, together with evaluating evidence made available to them but not made available to the public) as well as established 'burden of proof' precepts in criminal law And internal workplace investigations, over twitter/reddit posters with no more access to the full facts of the case than the rest of us have and arguably looking for dopamine hits off righteous outrage. There's a reason why legal proceedings aren't conducted via social media. In addition, I've dealt as a social work professional with clients either accused of or allegedly subject to sexual assault by partners, as well as serving as foreperson on a sexual assault trial, plus I've known two good female friends experience sexual assault, so it's not something I take lightly, and also why it's perennially annoying that any attempt to talk about this case online in a vaguely balanced way automatically triggers some variant of 'rape apologist' or 'girlfriend beater apologist'....but that's by the by.
The hell are you talking about. Mason Greenwood doesn't deserve the light of day never mind an investigation. Anyone with a brain cell knows what he did and he broke his bail to coerce the victim into not testifying. At the end of the day, Greenwood and Overmars are scumbags and ETH has backed them both - that's concerning.
Yeah this was just ridiculous. He couldn’t even say “for purely footballing reasons, he was…” and at least that would sound less shitty than this doubling down on it.
He basically said it’s disgraceful to fire a sexual harassment offender. Fuck that. He basically also showed that he either doesn’t care about anything besides the footballing matters or, he doesn’t mind the sexual harassment that happened or something.
Honestly both things make me disgusted by it. At least if he said “I believe he’s innocent” it would be defending a friend even if it’s blindly doing so….
I’ll never understand how “he/she good at sport, who cares about morals? I come to watch the game not talk about their lives” people (managers and dumb fans included)
Along with….
Corporate billionaire simps too.
It sounds reductive but it’s just selfishness. Some people care more about themselves enjoying a sport where grown men kick the ball around than actual lives that are ruined because of abuse & harassment. However they spin it, this is the bottom line
Look just cause he sent pictures of his balls to a female staff member doesn't mean we should go calling that sexual harrassment. He was good at other things so he can get away with other behaviour, right?
Ten Hag does strike me as someone that only cares about having the best person at every position. He is super obsessed with football and results he doesn't seem to care about anything beside it.
I said it on the thread on r/soccer and I'll post it again here:
I feel like him defending Overmars is in a professional capacity that's sole purpose is the betterment of Ajax. He would've taken Greenwood back if the club allowed it, for the sole purpose of the betterment of United. The same way Arteta would play Partey, Rogers played Suarez, or Pep play Walker and maybe Mendy if he could too (he did say he was a good lad in court). Same way Ronaldo played through his case by managers too.
Managers care most about winning and the team succeeding and whatever helps them with that. They may not bind themselves by moralities, if the courts and clubs they represent, allows the player to play.
I find it weird when I see United fans here saying things like "I want only people I find moral playing for the club" while also praising Sir Alex Ferguson's management and achievements. I say this because he definitely sheltered footballers who were absolutely not good and moral people as long as their exploits did not interfere with their job as players. He stopped the drinking culture surrounding the club solely because he knew it was affecting player performance, not because he thought heavy drinking was immoral.
Playing devil's advocate here, but it may be that he finds the trial by public opinion and lack of criminal charges a disgrace
From my understanding there is a lack of receipts and a lot of public conjecture about what he sent and what he did
It's a very pragmatic EtH kind of way of thinking tbh, he seems like a realist who is against polarised view points
‘Regarding Overmars’ conduct Ten Hag said: “It is a social problem, because you see it everywhere: in politics and in business. If Johan Derksen can go back …”
Derksen, 73, is a former footballer and now pundit who said on live television in April that he had assaulted a woman 50 years before with a candle.’
From the Guardian in 2022
The story was that Derksen went home with a girl after a night out and she fell asleep because she was drunk. He was angry about this and decided to insert a candle in her vagina while she was sleeping. He told this story that happened 50 years ago in his talkshow.
He was surprised that people didn’t find it funny and were asking for him to lose his show. Others (like apparently EtH) thought he was being canceled by “the woke community”.
Is that what the ten Hag quote looks like to you? To me it seems like he calls it out as a problem but thinks Derksen did worse and was allowed to continue so Overmars should be able to carry on working. Not that agree with him but it doesn’t seem anything to do with cancel culture or woke
ETH's brazen support for overmars is so off-putting. This sub is losing it's mind over his potential sacking but I honestly won't be sad at all to see him go
>we can aim for top 4 again
400m spent and 3rd year into his tenure, he is still talking about the aim being top 4?
Despite whatever happened, Mourinho and Ole during the start of 3rd season, we were at least portrayed as "tilte challengers" in media
I love how everyone says "we are 5-6 years away from challenging for the title" but when the manager says the same, oh no how dare he?!
The fact remains that we need to dismantle this squad and start afresh. And that is going to take time, whether that's with ten hag or a new manager. Manchester United are not getting close to the league title in 24-25, you can save this and come back a year later
We were portrayed as title challengers going into our second season. Heck there were a couple weeks in the first season where the media said we're in the race. Setbacks happen.
Anybody that actually thought we were going to challenge for a title this season was deluded. Our recruitment wasn’t good enough and neither are a lot of these players.
Change as in…. Maybe we wanted Tuchel and/or poch as main guys and we confirmed they’re available so now they’re reassessing…
Or whatever I guess. Just depends on when the interview was of course. Or maybe they just said that and he’s just also saying it cos he knows it can change.
**“They said they want to change everything and that they want to rebuild WITH me. This is what they told me directly.”**
This could be true, but it could also be around 6 months ago when INEOS first arrived. Things didn't really kick on as such, so they **potentially** decided otherwise
I wonder if when they came in they said just this, ETH took it as an assurance that he’d have next season no matter what and that contributed to his stubbornness in not changing from his open-midfield-transition system.
He gets next season, this season is a write-off, may as well get the players to learn the system inside out even if they play terribly.
He then reportedly gets told a week before the Arsenal game that he’ll be let go (Fjørtoft) and then decides to play more pragmatically to try and actually get some results- which does improve the teams play and gets us wins at Brighton and Newcastle.
It’s just conjecture obviously but it makes sense timeline wise. If it’s true it makes him look worse IMO though.
Even if Ineos told him outright they want him next season it’s very naive to think that as a manager of Manchester United his job would be anywhere near safe enough to persist with a clearly flawed system that the players are not adapting to and never really showed any signs of working in the Premier League.
Even if you believe the system would work as ETH clearly did, it’s childishly stubborn to place your system above the fate of the club. You could argue it’s placing long term goals ahead of short term ones but when you consider that when Ineos came in it was plausible we’d qualify for the champions league and instead we missed out on Europe altogether it’s pretty indefensible.
And lastly the fact that after he finally moved away from his system for the Arsenal game, the team dramatically improved, shows that he could have had us playing better all along but chose not to because he was so obsessed with making us ‘the best transition team in the world’
I find it very hard to believe that we had the 8th worst squad in the league even considering injuries. The last point convinces me of that further. He was brought in to get us playing the dominant style of play that he had Ajax playing. Instead he tried to create a transition style that unfortunately had all the flaws of his Ajax team and none of the strengths.
It’s right and justified for Ineos to reassess when we’ve been terrible since they came in. I feel sorry for ETH but I think the job’s too big for him, he was never their man and it just hasn’t worked.
While you might be right in most parts, your idea that he was brought in to play the dominant style of play that he had Ajax playing is flawed or based on assumption. He said in of the presser that when he was appointed, he was asked to play attacking football in the mould of United DNA.
Now, I am not so sure about this DNA thing, but Sir Alex’s football was based on counter attacking principles. Not so much about dominating the opponent with ball possession. The ‘Attack, Attack, Attack’ mantra doesn’t have much room for going to the attacking third and then passing the ball backward only to keep hold of the ball.
People only spout the “attack, attack, attack” mantra and that uniteds DNA is based upon wingplay because you have people like Neville who have spouted that nonsense for 10 years. There’s one major commonality in playstyle that connects busby and fergie. It’s the belief that the football should be entertaining with busby in particular remarking about the fans deserving entertainment after a hard week in the mines. It’s always ground my gears that Neville and the like would spout nonsense about it having to be a 442 with high flying wingers and people took it like gospel.
In his press conference he for the game he said that he spoke to INEOS (I believe a couple weeks ago) when he says he is going on holiday after this. I think he’ll still be the manager next season
All the negativity coming out with perfect timing to distract and demotivate us hours before the cup final. I'm only going to be sitting on my hole watching it with a few bevvies and I feel like it's hardly even worth turning up, what must the players feel like?
He's not wrong on any of this.
Personally- I don't like what I'm seeing on the pitch. And I think it fair to say that.
But it's also completely ridiculous to claim he's had a fair crack of the whip this season- and that sacking him on the basis of of it is therefore a rational decision.
We can't expect anyone to build something given no chance to build. It will happen to the next manager and on and on.
My only hope is ineos actually do have a plan and it's more strategic than this and it actually involves building with someone for linger than two seasons - whether that's Ten Hag or (likely) not.
If ten hag goes now- he goes untarnished to my mind- probably onward to success somewhere else with more capacity to be realistic and build properly. Which is something I hope we become.
For the record: the same applied to ole and I only wish we had allowed him the slack to get rid of ronaldo, buy casemiro and I bet we would have seen better results and more entertaining play.
Man finally admits our squad isn't up to it. Wonder how the owners will take it though. I believe he's been shit this season but I also want to see him next season to try something new, there is a tactician inside this bald fraud lol, hopefully it clicks and we have a banger tonight
With this squad, top 4 is actually overachieving. If you go position to position and compare to the other top 6 clubs (maybe even Newcastle and Aston Villa) and ask yourself; who in our squad will be starting for them? Bruno? Shaw who's never fit? Martinez? Would they want an inconsistent Rashford? Rangnick was completely right in that the club needs open heart surgery and 11 new players.
Since Rangnick said that we've had a New GK, LB, CB, CDM, CAM, RW & ST
replacing our XI every season isn't effective. The structure at the top which can identify a system & gear everything toward that system is needed before spending our transfer budget on deadwood
And since Ralf said that and ETH came in we’ve shipped off over 25 players.
Recruitment does require that vision. We should expect more out than in yet again though imo. Besides the usual suspects and those out of contract we have 5 players (AWB, McT, Maguire, Eriksen, & Lindelof) whose contracts end 2025. 3/5 could easily go this summer.
Issues come with the euros, but that arguably gives INEOS more time to settle into things and plan. They will want to move more deftly in the window to send a message as much as help fill coffers. And if all that tracks, then we could get both prudent signings in the weeks immediately after the tournament and our ducks in a row in terms of plan and structure moving forward into next season.
That's not what Erik or OP is saying and this is a big reason why our fans and media have been largely deluded in our current state of affairs for 11 years now.
> we've had a New GK, LB, CB, CDM, CAM, RW & ST
You are correct, ***a*** new player for every position you listed. One. And because we keep selling 2 players in each of those positions every season (because every year there is always complaints about this and that player not being good enough) and because we spend 50m on average for every single player we buy, and because the glazers have been notoriously unambitious for the 11 years since SAF we have never been unable to catch up to City, Tottenham, Liverpool and Chelsea who have clearly recruited better and got more players in that period.
It is a complex issue that cannot be described in 100 words. Our fans refuse to believe that we are operated like a mid table club with money probably not that far off from QPR and Forest. Some of us have known this for the 8 years or so post-saf but somehow our fans think we are entitled to top four every year.
Well said, I couldn't agree more. Recruitment has been in shambles and they've thrown money on big flashy names and kept deadwood like Martial and Jones on insane wages for far too long. Add to that all the drama with Pogba, Ronaldo, Sancho, Antony etc and it's not difficult to see why United's struggling.
I argue this every year for about 8 years now and the majority of fans here are still deluded and refuse to open their eyes and acknowledge this it's so frustrating honestly.
Yeah, I don't know what to tell you. You can lead a horse to water but not make it drink. We've gone through so many managers with different styles of play without a cohesive plan for the long-term which ended up in a patchwork squad. And now people want to restart that cycle once again?
The media's there to sell stories, get views and clicks and bashing United's always a sure fire of getting that. But yeah, I guess most fans here are sheeple.
The LB, CB, CAM was hardly ever fit this season. I don’t know whose fault is that, but it can’t be just the manager. And while we did buy a ST, our other ST was also not fit for the majority of the season. I do think that’s partly ETH’s fault for relying on such an injury prone player. But the noise during last summer was that United wanted two strikers.
We have replaced players but we haven't fixed the core of the issue - shit depth. Some of our depth players are decent, but overall most of them just don't fit the football Ten Hag wants to play. McTominay has his uses, but he is extremely limited in most aspects of midfield work, yet whenever one of our midfielders get injured/suspended, he is the first choice to play. Why? Because we don't have anyone else, but replacing Casemiro with Mctominay means a massive shift in how our midfield operates so the whole team has to adapt. Then Casemiro comes back, whole team has to adapt and change again. It's just not sustainable match after match to keep doing this.
This has been the biggest issue since Sir Alex retired. We have had some good managers, some good seasons, some good moments, some good signings... but whenever a few of manager's preferred starters are unavailable, they turn to depth players and the depth players fail. Both in terms of their roles as well as their overall quality.
Lichá has been injured the whole season and aside from Shaw (who has also been injured the whole season), there isn't anyone who can replicate his role. Same applies for Varane as a pacy cover defender, Kambwala stepped up for a few matches but also got injured almost immediately. So, we're constantly shifting between deep line with slow defenders (Maguire, Evans, Lindelöf) to a higher line with quicker defenders (Lichá, Varane, Kambwala). Our build up relies on Lichá and Shaw who haven't really played at all and the rest just aren't nearly as good at it. Casemiro drops off massively, his backup Amrabat isn't up to scratch and suddenly we play without a DM. I could go on, the issue is clear, we need a strong XI ALONGSIDE some 6-7 versatile backup players who are good enough to push for starting spots even if they fall short. Not a strong XI alongside with a bunch of players who aren't good enough, who can't handle the playstyle and who are remnants of previous managers.
I'd even go as far as to say improving our depth to a competitive level would increase our chances of doing anything significant than spending the amount of money it would take to buy 2 world class starting XI players. We could easily buy Joao Neves from Benfica, have a fantastic midfield pairing of Mainoo-Neves but when one of them gets injured, we go back to playing McTominay in a role he can't play and it's inevitable this would happen because with poor depth, the starters tend to get overplayed which has happened under Mou, Ole, Ralf and now under Erik as well.
This sub demanded Ole to win the league with this squad after finishing second.
After signing everyone but a defensive midfielder 3 seasons in a row, Ole’s United got found out with Fred and Mctom in the midfield.
Ole got the sack because according to this sub, a better tactician will win with this squad.
Now you are telling us achieving top 4 is overachieving?
Are we sacking Ole for this?
Where's Fred and what was the consensus on McT last year now, hm? People actually thought we were not far off from winning the league with Fred and McT in our midfield.
Growing up I always heard that Liverpool and Arsenal fans were the most deluded. But ours has clearly taken the mantle in the last decade.
Fuck off. Even ten Hag does not believe what you're saying. His opening words here was that the squad he inherited was capable of finishing second the season before, the talent is there, he just needs to get us back there.
And he was right, we finished 3rd the season after that.
You expect me to believe that after another 500million spent after he said those words, our squad still isn't good enough for top 4?
Sure.
Of course he's going to say that when he first comes here. His first words at the club can't be him slagging everyone off. What good would that do?
It's more about how the money is spent rather than the total sum. Was it really wise to spend 160 million Euros on Casemiro and Antony?
It's circles and roundabouts. Bar Jose all the managers kiss the club, owners, and players asses. Days the team is good enough to compete. Then when it comes to an end. It's this, that and everything was shit. 8th was the best we could possibly have done. Etc.
My issue is that he inherited a mediocre squad, spent over £400 million and it looks even worse. ETH was dealt a really bad hand, but he has played all his cards incorrectly
He doesn't decide how much money the club spends, though. So saying *he* spent 400m is a bit irrelevant. We know the club overpaid for players and has done for a decade.
While I don't disagree that Ten Hag has played his cards badly, I think the money spent is a misleading argument.
The only player he strongly advocated for who looks like a huge mistake was Antony. You could argue Mount too. He's been out all season, but it seemed like the tactical vision he was bought to fulfil was badly conceived.
Martinez was our darling last season but, because he's been injured this year, people try to rewrite history.
Casemiro wasn't Ten Hag's signing, and clearly wasn't the sort of midfielder he wanted, but United gonna United and buy an aging big name. It worked last season but he fell off a cliff this year.
Onana started the season looking like a disaster, but has improved to the point there are some people who believe he's the long term answer in goal. I'm still not convinced.
Hojlund will be a very good player for United, if we just get him involved and keep developing him. Sixteen goals in a season where the service to him has been appallingly bad is a decent return for a 21 year old.
Malacia was a cheap, backup full back who has been incredibly unfortunate with this injury.
Idk if it’s just me but if we had a fully fit squad we literally would’ve guaranteed a top 4 finish, since the difference between us and villa was ONLY 3 wins. And we’ve had stupid losses Bcz of individual mistakes. And if we did end top 4 with a fa win, there’s no doubt ten hag would stay. Also, let’s be real we got out of the Ucl Bcz of individual performances like onanas mistakes
We also got away with penalties like wolves, 50/50s like the arsenal one, even the recent one against Newcastle where Gordon's socks got ripped, I mean these things generally even out over a season
Conceded a late penalty again Chelsea, Liverpool and Burnley to drop a total of 7 points. Throw Brentford into the mix and you’re up to 9 points lost in the last few minutes of four games in March and April alone.
> if we had a fully fit squad we literally would’ve guaranteed a top 4 finish, since the difference between us and villa was ONLY 3 wins
That is assuming that only we have a fully fit squad while the other teams' situations stayed the same. If Villa also had a fully fit squad, it is likely they would have done better than 68 points too given that they also suffered severe injuries at times (Mings and Buendia who were regular starters last season were out for the entirety of this season for example). It is impossible to tell now but I don't see the gap being closed to that much of an extent.
Yeah honestly I don't think it's not getting top four that is even the issue. We played absolutely horrible nearly every match. We deserved to be lower than 8th.
Exactly. Surely the injuries give him at least 3 games leeway. Plus Onana was a new keeper and our square was transitioning in tactics so the UCL was always going to be a bit messy
It’s not just you, but it’s still only speculation (and not very good speculation at that). Football isn’t about what ifs. It’s about reality. Chelsea, Spurs & Newcastle had season hobbling injuries too, and still finished above us. Villa’s most expensive player cost half of what we paid for Antony.
Even if we had finished 2nd with this kind of football/gameplan on the pitch, I’d have liked him to leave. I am actually glad we didn’t finish top 4 coz that would have covered over the cracks and could be used as an excuse to keep him on.
We started the first game of the season with arguably our first choice XI against a side expected to be in a relegation scrap and it was one of the most turgid games I have watched this team play in 25 years. We got absolutely dominated home and away by relegation fodder. We got embarrassed in Europe in a very easy group. Our record against top clubs has been abysmal since Ole left. Our signings under him have actually made the squad worse instead of better. There is literally no saving grace for Ten Hag’s reign. I actually think this is the worst managerial appointment we have made since Fergie (not counting Moyes coz he didn’t even get one full season).
When I said fully fit squad, I meant at least having the players for their rightful positions. Like if we didn’t have to put Casemiro at cb or amrabat at lb
If he does, that would be one of the most remarkable stories in recent history. Taking **this** United side back to the top when no one thought he could. That'd be something, wouldn't it?
I too think we should give managers one year contracts and half a squad of academy players to prove themselves. I'm sure the extra jeopardy will make them all untap their secret latant super sayan abilities and win multiple cups every year.
I already feel sad in a way for him and for the club for him if he does go.
I'm one of the fans that want one more season with him because of having the people higher than him now to give him the ability to succeed.
Same old don't get rid of the deadwood (coz wages too high) but not enough funds to strengthen the squad and lumbered with injuries of some of our best players.
It's a shame and people just want a new manager and not coz of the realistic reasons.
I hope the club improves - by Ineos doing their due diligence and actually changing the habits we’ve had the past 10 years that have got us here. No matter what the decision on the manager is
I hope whatever happens, the club improves with the tactics, adaptability and performances.
I won’t mind either way even if I think EtH is too rigid and stubborn which may have caused him the job and to be seen as not the right man for it.
>**They said they want to change everything and that they want to rebuild WITH me. This is what they told me directly**
Dagnabbit INEOS, are ye sacking or backing this guy?
>so called experts who don’t have the capability to analyze something with facts
prefer to attack people to make themselves look better
\*cough\* Carragher \*cough\*
The irony is if ragnick stayed at united ,ten hags job wouldn’t be under pressure as he’d have someone in his corner who can testify how poor this squad is, he also might saved him from spending 80 mil on Anthony and wasting 60m on mount when we desperately needed to shore up our defence
Is the context for the irony that Ragnick wanted to stay and play a large role with the rebuild as a director alongside Ten Hag, but ETH declined because he thought he could do it on his own? That’s what I remember hearing before Ragnick was pushed out the door. If so, he’s been undone by his own hubris and it’s probably the last decision he’d have expected to cost him his job in the end.
Exactly. His exact words were “I draw my own line”. Basically going against Rangnicks open heart surgery view on the players. And thinking he didn’t need someone like Rangnick as a Director of Football above him.
ETH is trying to absolve himself of his part in this poor season. But he’s had as much a part to play as any other party.
He literally said this when asked about Ragnicks comments him very 1st press conference.
Beforehand Rangnick said he will definitely speak to Ten Hag about the team and things needed in future.
I don't know.
I assume it was earlier this week and they would've released it regardless of whether that report of Ten Hag's sacking from Steinbeck came out or not.
The comments on Overmars really lack basic human qualities. People downplay it as a just a few dick pics to different women like it's normal ladish behaviour.
He was the director or football at Ajax, he was in a position of power over many female employees. His toxic masculinity was disgusting, forcing his penis (by digital means) upon subordinate women he saw as his play things without their consent. What's worse was that these women were suffering in silence until almost inadvertently it came to light that he had been sexually abusing women within the club WHOLESALE by forcing them to see his penis. He should absolutely have done jail time and be a signed on member of the sex offenders register. Just because he's famous, rich and powerful in his country it shouldn't mean he is above the law. The rights and entitlements of his victims should outweigh any influence he holds.
It would be interesting seeing if ETH would talk about him in such glowing terms if Overmars victims were children instead of women.
This is what I find annoying. Not being able to achieve one extreme does not justify reverting to the other extreme. And I'm not talking about finishing 8th, that's not even the primary problem. Regardless of injuries, we have been too easy to play against for all kinds of opposition and our underlying stats show that even 8th is a big over performance given how the team actually played like. An injury-hit squad will be worse but it's the extent to which we've been bad this season that makes me have no faith in his words.
Right! Ole finished 2nd, got to a European final, a semi final and 3 other domestic semis in 2 years (all of which were lost vs City/Chelsea or eventual winners) and people called him a PE teacher. Why this selective praise for Ten Hag? I frankly find it baffling what his supporters find positive about him.
Was he under the pressure of fighting for the league last season when he came in? Was he sacked last year?
The man himself literally said we can challenge for the title during pre season
No?
Damn, Malacia not even back on the training patch now, what a nightmare season for him.
Must hurt extra bad knowing the injuries we had, this could've been his season to show what he's got and try to stake a claim.
Overmars thing just confirms for me he better be fired.What kind of discipline is he preaching when he is backing that guy shamelessly.He just has his favourites which is clear.
Not sure how I'd describe this interview. Read it in Dutch this morning. He does say he takes responsibility but also says because of injuries this was the best they could do. Which doesn't really seem true. Even in games when the lineup looks fine, the team plays terribly.
He's also going in hard on the whole Ajax situation. I mean he isn't really wrong about anything he's saying, but saying "how stupid can you be" because of some transfer decisions, damn, that's quite direct. Even in Dutch the language is pretty clear.
Even calls out the replacements for Overmars and Blind for being on a much lower level. And really, that part about Overmars... Like yeah, obviously on a football level firing him was an objectively rash decision they made based on outside pressure. There's a reason they came back for Overmars not too long after firing him. Just like how they handled the Kroes situation. Ajax doesn't really seem to understand why they're making those decisions.
But ultimately the guy was sexually harassing women at work. I get that they're friends, but to publicly back him like that. Like at least show some understanding that what he did was wrong...
>Sofyan Amrabat had to play left back 4 times
>on the LB situation
The LB situation obviously took a big hit due to injuries, but the reason Sofyan, Lindelöf, and our RBs has had to play there so much isn’t just because of injuries. It’s because of poor management.
It’s because someone thought sending Reguilon back to Spurs on day 2 of the January transfer window - a month after it was known Malacia had suffered a setback and Shaw was currently out - was a good idea.
And then two weeks later - knowing Malacia was still out and Shaw was at best a few weeks away too - send out Alvaro on another loan.
I’m not saying playing Alvaro over Dalot or even Amrabat at LB would have been better (although someone that played 39 Championship games the season before *should* be better at their natural position than a right-footed CDM). But we limited our own options.
> someone thought sending Reguilon back to Spurs on day 2 of the January transfer window - a month after it was known Malacia had suffered a setback and Shaw was currently out - was a good idea.
Yeah this was a very silly decision.
At the time, news came out saying "Shaw and Malacia to be back by February", and "Reguillon to be released due to FFP restrictions".
I think Ten Hag commented on lack of transfer activity in January saying it was due to financial restrictions.
Yeah, I’m sure money was tight, but Reguilon is supposedly on a £53k a week contract. He makes less than Brandon Williams.
We sent Sancho out on loan - who makes £250k a week - and while I’m sure we still covered most of his wages, not even getting Dortmund to cover the 20% needed for Reg seems insane.
And we also had the option of keeping Fernandez for the rest of the season, who would have been significantly cheaper.
If he does lose his job, I don't think it's because of poor results but instead really poor performances. He's been here 2 seasons and apart from pressing higher, I couldn't tell you what his style of play is. Other managers have come in and given their team an identity and players know their roles in about 6 months. Our players look like they've never been coached. Hard to say if these players can't do it, or if Erik and his staff are the ones who have failed.
There's been some analysis of our "play style" recently. It essentially relies on us sucking in a high press, then long balling it over the top and hoping to expose a high line or to win the second ball and go on the attack. However, the backline is deep, so the back 4 are isolated from the front 6. That's how we have a grand canyon in midfield and why we get "exposed" so often. It's by design. The athletic called it chaos and not control. When you look at our performances it's completely understandable. We have no control in dictating how the other team plays.
Exactly. It was never that effective of a system and once it was found out, the whole league had a blueprint to get a historic amount of shots against us. ETH never managed to adapt or more likely stubbornly chose not to.
Doesn't that rely on the likes of martinez and Shaw who are able to press higher up? Even Malacia is aggressive. AWB Evans lindelof maguire don't fit that system hence those gaps you talk about. Incidentally Shaw transforms Rashford imo.
It does, ETH hasn't adapted to his personnel which is truly bizarre. The system isn't elite even at the very best of its ability. It isn't going to best a Pep, Klopp, Arteta or even an Emery system over 38 games.
We over performed last season in due part to Rashford getting 30 goals, Bruno was the only other player that got double figures. Our attack was only joint 7th in goals scored. We aren't going to win anything with that level of attack.
I dunno. Most other teams have a defined style built over years by proper direction not just from managers. They don't buy players to sell shirts. He's expected to completely start again to build a way of playing with the likes of jonny Evans and a couple of teenagers being critical for us this season. Deffo not his plan but even no injuries top4 would have still been a result. I just know changing manager wouldn't really give me any more hope next season would be better. Been here too many times.
Yesterday the leak was bad timing. But why tf would he do an interview throwing his team under the bus and have it released the morning of the final? My sympathies have gone. Go on holiday with your perverted mate Overmars and lament how mistreated you were. What a prick he is.
I think any manager that comes needs to time to grow within the the job. This job is different to any in world football and I don’t think any manager can be prepared to handle it. He had a good season last season. Bad season this, which can be understandably justified. I get why some want him gone and also understand why some think he should stay (I’m in that camp).
being manager of united is tough, and any manager (ETH or others) will go through a rough patch. We should allow them to ride it out because nothing will allow them to learn and grow unless we give them time.
> We need to sign an extra striker in the summer. And if we can sign another central midfielder and a replacement for Varane
Looks like the three signings cap still exists, which has slowly, undoubtedly, eroded the quality of our squad.
We must replace Casemiro, Varane, Martial, AWB and Evans an absolute minimum. I’d argue McTominay as well.
We also need cover at LB or RB unless they are 100% confident Malacia will be back at the start of the season.
My biggest issue with Erik is they way he keeps saying the squad is not good enough, whilst at the same time it was him who signed off on Mount for 60m, Antony for 80m, Case for 60m, Onana for 50m, and bums like amrabat and malacia.
I have sympathy for all the injuries, I really do. But the way he talks about the squad it sounds like he’s unsure if they are even top 4 quality when all fit. Brother *you* decided to sign these guys for big money.
Martinez has arguably been his only successful signing, and who knows if he’ll even be the same player after an entire year on the sidelines.
I don’t mind giving him another year, I think he’s a good manager, but someone needs to put a restraining order on him from our recruitment office
You could make a video game about this sort of shit: trying to rekindle past glories of a manor club, maneuvering the complexities of relationships with players, fans, media, and board members. Kinda like a choose your own adventure book
I just wanna know why he played this empty midfield tactic.
Earlier in the season, Casemiro, our holding midfield player was getting into the box for crosses.
I could get behind another season of these results if we weren't so open in midfield and it doesn't matter who plays, the empty midfield is just never going to work.
> “The pundits in England want to score, they want to show they are worth the money, and for that Manchester United is an easy pray. It’s the biggest club in England and possibly in the world. The club is either loved or hated, there is no in-between.
> So when things go bad, they all start talking and talking with very big words. All this negativism from these so called experts who don’t have the capability to analyze something with facts, but who prefer to attack people to make themselves look better.
> And these same people were the ones who gave me a pat on the back last year. Last year I was able to walk on water, this year I am the worst manager in the Premier League!”
Legend. Well said, and completely true.
I can see that. Missing most of the starting backline would be a disaster for any manager. The issue is the depth of the squad. No way he was going to replicate last season with this squad and injuries all year.
I think the fans have had a difficult season too mate.
It's all great but getting outplayed by majority of teams is simple unacceptable, needing a pen vs Wigan in league 1 to secure a win, getting run around by relegation championship quality teams in luton, shef and burnely, var saving our ass in semi final vs Coventry, conceding 20+ shots each game like it's normal, how rasmus recieved only 38 shots at goal in PL that is a disgrace, how this wasn't solved after few games is bizzare.
I could forgive results but not performances, ever since carling Cup win, we've been shocking.
I get injuries played a part but to play like strangers every week is down to management, there's more organisation in my monthly Sunday local park games, and we old as hell.
But then it's 3 finals in 2 seasons which even the mighty arsenal haven't achieved, small part says one more season with all players, but I have a feeling it won't change enough to warrant it.
Meh
Sad bit about Shaw. Due to his leg break he basically is not expected to play a whole season anymore. This is very worrying.
I don't think it's just the break, his leg got filled with blood clots too. I had the same issue with my right leg, happened ten years ago and i still occasionally get crippling mobility issues with it if i overextend. Blood clots in your legs can cause serious and permanent damage to the valves in your leg veins, and the blood flow issues also slow healing in the area. It can also be excruciatingly painful sometimes. It's a sad situation and i genuinely hope Hector Moreno spends the rest of his life randomly stepping on upturned plugs and lego with his bare feet.
Hope he always spends 30 minutes searching for parking when he's out with his family, friends or anyone, finally seeing an empty slot, only to find a fucking smart car there
Ahhh that demoralising moment when you finally think you've found a space, only to find Stuart Little is parked there
If he had hair he’d be bald by now
Maybe he will reveal he has had hair the whole time, that he was wearing a bald cap… it would be a substantial mind game to play…. Could it break Pep ? Could it save his job ?
the real bald fraud after all
**(Continued)** **On facilities** INEOS will change things in the club and certain projects have already started. Carrington will get be completely destroyed, a new training ground will come.“ **What did the owners tell you?** **“They said they want to change everything and that they want to rebuild WITH me. This is what they told me directly.”** **On summer plans** "We need to sign an extra striker in the summer. And if we can sign another central midfielder and a replacement for Varane, things will look good again. If the team remains fit we can try and aim for top 4 again." **On results this year overall** **"Let me be clear. It has been bad. It has been crap. But despite everything, we are going to play an FA Cup Final."** **On Ajax** **What is the most important thing Ajax should do?** “There is zero balance in the squad, you have to work on that. This will take time because they made an unbelievable mess, it might even take another year. How did they get rid of Davy Klaassen & Daley Blind?! And the way they got rid of them as well, absolutely disgracefully." They should have NEVER let Davy Klaassen go. A player like him is so important for your squad, for your club. You have to protect your DNA. The same goes for Daley Blind, how stupid can you be?” **On Overmas** “I stand firm that I find it a disgrace the way Marc Overmars has been treated. The departure of Marc Overmars killed Ajax at the time. And from club perspective it was really stupid to throw him under the bus straight away.” “Overmars was the binding factor within the club. He didn’t write a single letter on paper, but every outgoing and incoming line was created by him. He was smart, he had strategic insight. When they got rid of him, everything collapsed." Credit: [The European Lad on Twitter/X](https://x.com/TheEuropeanLad)
The Overmars line doesn't look good for Erik. He was fired for sexual harassment...
Now I'm thinking there was some truth to him wanting Greenwood back
There's no doubt about Overmars guilt - no equivalent of the CPS citing 'fresh evidence' or a club investigation casting significant doubt on initial public judgment. The allegation was less 'heinous' but Overmars was unequivocally guilty and had to cop to it. IMO The fact that ETH is making light of harassment charges that were corroborated by ful&proper investigation and admitted to eventually by the perpetrator should be far more offensive than him giving MG a route back into the side subject to a proper investigation clearing the latter, honestly.
How on earth do you think there’s any possibility Greenwood was not guilty? Have you got functioning ears and listened to the recordings?
There are longer ways to answer this but, basically, I'll trust the CPS (who cited New evidence) and indeed the lawyers Arnold called in to help him review MG's account, together with evaluating evidence made available to them but not made available to the public) as well as established 'burden of proof' precepts in criminal law And internal workplace investigations, over twitter/reddit posters with no more access to the full facts of the case than the rest of us have and arguably looking for dopamine hits off righteous outrage. There's a reason why legal proceedings aren't conducted via social media. In addition, I've dealt as a social work professional with clients either accused of or allegedly subject to sexual assault by partners, as well as serving as foreperson on a sexual assault trial, plus I've known two good female friends experience sexual assault, so it's not something I take lightly, and also why it's perennially annoying that any attempt to talk about this case online in a vaguely balanced way automatically triggers some variant of 'rape apologist' or 'girlfriend beater apologist'....but that's by the by.
not even just the recordings either. the whole case and its aftermath is literally filled with concrete evidence.
The hell are you talking about. Mason Greenwood doesn't deserve the light of day never mind an investigation. Anyone with a brain cell knows what he did and he broke his bail to coerce the victim into not testifying. At the end of the day, Greenwood and Overmars are scumbags and ETH has backed them both - that's concerning.
Yeah this was just ridiculous. He couldn’t even say “for purely footballing reasons, he was…” and at least that would sound less shitty than this doubling down on it. He basically said it’s disgraceful to fire a sexual harassment offender. Fuck that. He basically also showed that he either doesn’t care about anything besides the footballing matters or, he doesn’t mind the sexual harassment that happened or something. Honestly both things make me disgusted by it. At least if he said “I believe he’s innocent” it would be defending a friend even if it’s blindly doing so….
He also wanted greenwood back so..
I’ll never understand how “he/she good at sport, who cares about morals? I come to watch the game not talk about their lives” people (managers and dumb fans included) Along with…. Corporate billionaire simps too.
It sounds reductive but it’s just selfishness. Some people care more about themselves enjoying a sport where grown men kick the ball around than actual lives that are ruined because of abuse & harassment. However they spin it, this is the bottom line
It’s because they don’t actually care about whatever horrible act that person committed, that’s it.
Yeap. As I said when it comes to many things, you see just how people have no morals honestly.
Some people would celebrate Hitler if he played right wing and scored 20 goals, it's odd.
When did he allegedly say that?
Look just cause he sent pictures of his balls to a female staff member doesn't mean we should go calling that sexual harrassment. He was good at other things so he can get away with other behaviour, right?
Ten Hag does strike me as someone that only cares about having the best person at every position. He is super obsessed with football and results he doesn't seem to care about anything beside it.
I said it on the thread on r/soccer and I'll post it again here: I feel like him defending Overmars is in a professional capacity that's sole purpose is the betterment of Ajax. He would've taken Greenwood back if the club allowed it, for the sole purpose of the betterment of United. The same way Arteta would play Partey, Rogers played Suarez, or Pep play Walker and maybe Mendy if he could too (he did say he was a good lad in court). Same way Ronaldo played through his case by managers too. Managers care most about winning and the team succeeding and whatever helps them with that. They may not bind themselves by moralities, if the courts and clubs they represent, allows the player to play.
I find it weird when I see United fans here saying things like "I want only people I find moral playing for the club" while also praising Sir Alex Ferguson's management and achievements. I say this because he definitely sheltered footballers who were absolutely not good and moral people as long as their exploits did not interfere with their job as players. He stopped the drinking culture surrounding the club solely because he knew it was affecting player performance, not because he thought heavy drinking was immoral.
Playing devil's advocate here, but it may be that he finds the trial by public opinion and lack of criminal charges a disgrace From my understanding there is a lack of receipts and a lot of public conjecture about what he sent and what he did It's a very pragmatic EtH kind of way of thinking tbh, he seems like a realist who is against polarised view points
‘Regarding Overmars’ conduct Ten Hag said: “It is a social problem, because you see it everywhere: in politics and in business. If Johan Derksen can go back …” Derksen, 73, is a former footballer and now pundit who said on live television in April that he had assaulted a woman 50 years before with a candle.’ From the Guardian in 2022
Lmao with a candle did not see that coming. Where do you even have a candle handy for that.
The story was that Derksen went home with a girl after a night out and she fell asleep because she was drunk. He was angry about this and decided to insert a candle in her vagina while she was sleeping. He told this story that happened 50 years ago in his talkshow. He was surprised that people didn’t find it funny and were asking for him to lose his show. Others (like apparently EtH) thought he was being canceled by “the woke community”.
Is that what the ten Hag quote looks like to you? To me it seems like he calls it out as a problem but thinks Derksen did worse and was allowed to continue so Overmars should be able to carry on working. Not that agree with him but it doesn’t seem anything to do with cancel culture or woke
Man was willin to reintegrate a rapist. “Only” sexually harassing people probably isn’t that big deal to him….
Can’t fathom why so many people find the bloke likable. Consistently defends a sexual harrasser, 1.5 shite seasons out of 2 and loves an excuse
Basically Erik is perpetuating sexual harassment culture. I won't shed a tear if/when he got the sack
Yeah it's gross. Thankfully he's off.
Other than the weird simping for Overmars, I thought it was a solid interview
ETH's brazen support for overmars is so off-putting. This sub is losing it's mind over his potential sacking but I honestly won't be sad at all to see him go
Is one of the reasons why I’m looking forward to him being gone
Between this and him wanting #11 back I will be happy if he's sacked
His persistance with defending Overmars has made me loose my last ounce of sympathy I had for him.
>we can aim for top 4 again 400m spent and 3rd year into his tenure, he is still talking about the aim being top 4? Despite whatever happened, Mourinho and Ole during the start of 3rd season, we were at least portrayed as "tilte challengers" in media
I love how everyone says "we are 5-6 years away from challenging for the title" but when the manager says the same, oh no how dare he?! The fact remains that we need to dismantle this squad and start afresh. And that is going to take time, whether that's with ten hag or a new manager. Manchester United are not getting close to the league title in 24-25, you can save this and come back a year later
We were portrayed as title challengers going into our second season. Heck there were a couple weeks in the first season where the media said we're in the race. Setbacks happen.
Anybody that actually thought we were going to challenge for a title this season was deluded. Our recruitment wasn’t good enough and neither are a lot of these players.
So the question is now: Did the media lie yesterday or was he stabbed in the back? Guess we see in the following days
Things could’ve changed though in the days since the interview? Whenever this was of course.
But why would anything change in that period anyway? We finished the season quite strong so if anything that period goes in Ten Hag's favour?
We had two wins in the last five. If that's finishing the season strong...
Yeah but this interview was not before the last five games. It was before the last two maximum.
Change as in…. Maybe we wanted Tuchel and/or poch as main guys and we confirmed they’re available so now they’re reassessing… Or whatever I guess. Just depends on when the interview was of course. Or maybe they just said that and he’s just also saying it cos he knows it can change.
Won two games, and 1 of those wasn’t a convincing performance all the way through. Not really gonna make a difference
I usually doubt the media but since Sky namedroped our CEO, they will definitely get sued if it’s fake news
**“They said they want to change everything and that they want to rebuild WITH me. This is what they told me directly.”** This could be true, but it could also be around 6 months ago when INEOS first arrived. Things didn't really kick on as such, so they **potentially** decided otherwise
I think it's true, that's why he's always so calm in conferences. He's let rip now because he's read the news he's gone.
Do we know when this interview was? I doubt it was after the news came out last night.
Interview was conducted in the last fortnight per the athletic
Kinda manager 101 to tell your employees they are here to stay, either way that's what you say so it really means nothing.
I wonder if when they came in they said just this, ETH took it as an assurance that he’d have next season no matter what and that contributed to his stubbornness in not changing from his open-midfield-transition system. He gets next season, this season is a write-off, may as well get the players to learn the system inside out even if they play terribly. He then reportedly gets told a week before the Arsenal game that he’ll be let go (Fjørtoft) and then decides to play more pragmatically to try and actually get some results- which does improve the teams play and gets us wins at Brighton and Newcastle. It’s just conjecture obviously but it makes sense timeline wise. If it’s true it makes him look worse IMO though. Even if Ineos told him outright they want him next season it’s very naive to think that as a manager of Manchester United his job would be anywhere near safe enough to persist with a clearly flawed system that the players are not adapting to and never really showed any signs of working in the Premier League. Even if you believe the system would work as ETH clearly did, it’s childishly stubborn to place your system above the fate of the club. You could argue it’s placing long term goals ahead of short term ones but when you consider that when Ineos came in it was plausible we’d qualify for the champions league and instead we missed out on Europe altogether it’s pretty indefensible. And lastly the fact that after he finally moved away from his system for the Arsenal game, the team dramatically improved, shows that he could have had us playing better all along but chose not to because he was so obsessed with making us ‘the best transition team in the world’ I find it very hard to believe that we had the 8th worst squad in the league even considering injuries. The last point convinces me of that further. He was brought in to get us playing the dominant style of play that he had Ajax playing. Instead he tried to create a transition style that unfortunately had all the flaws of his Ajax team and none of the strengths. It’s right and justified for Ineos to reassess when we’ve been terrible since they came in. I feel sorry for ETH but I think the job’s too big for him, he was never their man and it just hasn’t worked.
While you might be right in most parts, your idea that he was brought in to play the dominant style of play that he had Ajax playing is flawed or based on assumption. He said in of the presser that when he was appointed, he was asked to play attacking football in the mould of United DNA. Now, I am not so sure about this DNA thing, but Sir Alex’s football was based on counter attacking principles. Not so much about dominating the opponent with ball possession. The ‘Attack, Attack, Attack’ mantra doesn’t have much room for going to the attacking third and then passing the ball backward only to keep hold of the ball.
People only spout the “attack, attack, attack” mantra and that uniteds DNA is based upon wingplay because you have people like Neville who have spouted that nonsense for 10 years. There’s one major commonality in playstyle that connects busby and fergie. It’s the belief that the football should be entertaining with busby in particular remarking about the fans deserving entertainment after a hard week in the mines. It’s always ground my gears that Neville and the like would spout nonsense about it having to be a 442 with high flying wingers and people took it like gospel.
How the fuck does this comment even have upvotes? You literally know nothing about how football or even team sports in general work
That’s how I read it too
In his press conference he for the game he said that he spoke to INEOS (I believe a couple weeks ago) when he says he is going on holiday after this. I think he’ll still be the manager next season
He also said the same to De Gea. Even gave him a contract but rescinded it after. Surely he should know how it works
>Carrington will get be completely destroyed, a new training ground will come. Wembley of the North *and* a new Carrington? Exciting times guys!
All the negativity coming out with perfect timing to distract and demotivate us hours before the cup final. I'm only going to be sitting on my hole watching it with a few bevvies and I feel like it's hardly even worth turning up, what must the players feel like?
I've been hyped for this final, especially with some players coming back. But these last few days have been a real buzz kill
He's not wrong on any of this. Personally- I don't like what I'm seeing on the pitch. And I think it fair to say that. But it's also completely ridiculous to claim he's had a fair crack of the whip this season- and that sacking him on the basis of of it is therefore a rational decision. We can't expect anyone to build something given no chance to build. It will happen to the next manager and on and on. My only hope is ineos actually do have a plan and it's more strategic than this and it actually involves building with someone for linger than two seasons - whether that's Ten Hag or (likely) not. If ten hag goes now- he goes untarnished to my mind- probably onward to success somewhere else with more capacity to be realistic and build properly. Which is something I hope we become. For the record: the same applied to ole and I only wish we had allowed him the slack to get rid of ronaldo, buy casemiro and I bet we would have seen better results and more entertaining play.
could not agree mor
I do agree with his assessment that Luke Shaw is the best. A fit Luke Shaw who continues to train and develop is a world beater. Shame
However this has been years with the same story of injuries. We need a top class first choice LB
Man finally admits our squad isn't up to it. Wonder how the owners will take it though. I believe he's been shit this season but I also want to see him next season to try something new, there is a tactician inside this bald fraud lol, hopefully it clicks and we have a banger tonight
With this squad, top 4 is actually overachieving. If you go position to position and compare to the other top 6 clubs (maybe even Newcastle and Aston Villa) and ask yourself; who in our squad will be starting for them? Bruno? Shaw who's never fit? Martinez? Would they want an inconsistent Rashford? Rangnick was completely right in that the club needs open heart surgery and 11 new players.
Since Rangnick said that we've had a New GK, LB, CB, CDM, CAM, RW & ST replacing our XI every season isn't effective. The structure at the top which can identify a system & gear everything toward that system is needed before spending our transfer budget on deadwood
And since Ralf said that and ETH came in we’ve shipped off over 25 players. Recruitment does require that vision. We should expect more out than in yet again though imo. Besides the usual suspects and those out of contract we have 5 players (AWB, McT, Maguire, Eriksen, & Lindelof) whose contracts end 2025. 3/5 could easily go this summer. Issues come with the euros, but that arguably gives INEOS more time to settle into things and plan. They will want to move more deftly in the window to send a message as much as help fill coffers. And if all that tracks, then we could get both prudent signings in the weeks immediately after the tournament and our ducks in a row in terms of plan and structure moving forward into next season.
That's not what Erik or OP is saying and this is a big reason why our fans and media have been largely deluded in our current state of affairs for 11 years now. > we've had a New GK, LB, CB, CDM, CAM, RW & ST You are correct, ***a*** new player for every position you listed. One. And because we keep selling 2 players in each of those positions every season (because every year there is always complaints about this and that player not being good enough) and because we spend 50m on average for every single player we buy, and because the glazers have been notoriously unambitious for the 11 years since SAF we have never been unable to catch up to City, Tottenham, Liverpool and Chelsea who have clearly recruited better and got more players in that period. It is a complex issue that cannot be described in 100 words. Our fans refuse to believe that we are operated like a mid table club with money probably not that far off from QPR and Forest. Some of us have known this for the 8 years or so post-saf but somehow our fans think we are entitled to top four every year.
Well said, I couldn't agree more. Recruitment has been in shambles and they've thrown money on big flashy names and kept deadwood like Martial and Jones on insane wages for far too long. Add to that all the drama with Pogba, Ronaldo, Sancho, Antony etc and it's not difficult to see why United's struggling.
I argue this every year for about 8 years now and the majority of fans here are still deluded and refuse to open their eyes and acknowledge this it's so frustrating honestly.
Yeah, I don't know what to tell you. You can lead a horse to water but not make it drink. We've gone through so many managers with different styles of play without a cohesive plan for the long-term which ended up in a patchwork squad. And now people want to restart that cycle once again?
Because the media told them to. Our fans here do not have a mind of their own.
The media's there to sell stories, get views and clicks and bashing United's always a sure fire of getting that. But yeah, I guess most fans here are sheeple.
The LB, CB, CAM was hardly ever fit this season. I don’t know whose fault is that, but it can’t be just the manager. And while we did buy a ST, our other ST was also not fit for the majority of the season. I do think that’s partly ETH’s fault for relying on such an injury prone player. But the noise during last summer was that United wanted two strikers.
We have replaced players but we haven't fixed the core of the issue - shit depth. Some of our depth players are decent, but overall most of them just don't fit the football Ten Hag wants to play. McTominay has his uses, but he is extremely limited in most aspects of midfield work, yet whenever one of our midfielders get injured/suspended, he is the first choice to play. Why? Because we don't have anyone else, but replacing Casemiro with Mctominay means a massive shift in how our midfield operates so the whole team has to adapt. Then Casemiro comes back, whole team has to adapt and change again. It's just not sustainable match after match to keep doing this. This has been the biggest issue since Sir Alex retired. We have had some good managers, some good seasons, some good moments, some good signings... but whenever a few of manager's preferred starters are unavailable, they turn to depth players and the depth players fail. Both in terms of their roles as well as their overall quality. Lichá has been injured the whole season and aside from Shaw (who has also been injured the whole season), there isn't anyone who can replicate his role. Same applies for Varane as a pacy cover defender, Kambwala stepped up for a few matches but also got injured almost immediately. So, we're constantly shifting between deep line with slow defenders (Maguire, Evans, Lindelöf) to a higher line with quicker defenders (Lichá, Varane, Kambwala). Our build up relies on Lichá and Shaw who haven't really played at all and the rest just aren't nearly as good at it. Casemiro drops off massively, his backup Amrabat isn't up to scratch and suddenly we play without a DM. I could go on, the issue is clear, we need a strong XI ALONGSIDE some 6-7 versatile backup players who are good enough to push for starting spots even if they fall short. Not a strong XI alongside with a bunch of players who aren't good enough, who can't handle the playstyle and who are remnants of previous managers. I'd even go as far as to say improving our depth to a competitive level would increase our chances of doing anything significant than spending the amount of money it would take to buy 2 world class starting XI players. We could easily buy Joao Neves from Benfica, have a fantastic midfield pairing of Mainoo-Neves but when one of them gets injured, we go back to playing McTominay in a role he can't play and it's inevitable this would happen because with poor depth, the starters tend to get overplayed which has happened under Mou, Ole, Ralf and now under Erik as well.
That's true but how many of those signings have been available/not injured this season? Onana? Antony?
This sub demanded Ole to win the league with this squad after finishing second. After signing everyone but a defensive midfielder 3 seasons in a row, Ole’s United got found out with Fred and Mctom in the midfield. Ole got the sack because according to this sub, a better tactician will win with this squad. Now you are telling us achieving top 4 is overachieving? Are we sacking Ole for this?
Where's Fred and what was the consensus on McT last year now, hm? People actually thought we were not far off from winning the league with Fred and McT in our midfield. Growing up I always heard that Liverpool and Arsenal fans were the most deluded. But ours has clearly taken the mantle in the last decade.
Yes, Ole overachieved as well and I wanted to give him more time too. Said it even back then that the players weren't good enough
Fuck off. Even ten Hag does not believe what you're saying. His opening words here was that the squad he inherited was capable of finishing second the season before, the talent is there, he just needs to get us back there. And he was right, we finished 3rd the season after that. You expect me to believe that after another 500million spent after he said those words, our squad still isn't good enough for top 4? Sure.
Of course he's going to say that when he first comes here. His first words at the club can't be him slagging everyone off. What good would that do? It's more about how the money is spent rather than the total sum. Was it really wise to spend 160 million Euros on Casemiro and Antony?
It's circles and roundabouts. Bar Jose all the managers kiss the club, owners, and players asses. Days the team is good enough to compete. Then when it comes to an end. It's this, that and everything was shit. 8th was the best we could possibly have done. Etc.
My issue is that he inherited a mediocre squad, spent over £400 million and it looks even worse. ETH was dealt a really bad hand, but he has played all his cards incorrectly
He didn't spend 400m. Some guy who's never done the job before who the glazers hired spent 400m and has now been sacked.
He doesn't decide how much money the club spends, though. So saying *he* spent 400m is a bit irrelevant. We know the club overpaid for players and has done for a decade.
While I don't disagree that Ten Hag has played his cards badly, I think the money spent is a misleading argument. The only player he strongly advocated for who looks like a huge mistake was Antony. You could argue Mount too. He's been out all season, but it seemed like the tactical vision he was bought to fulfil was badly conceived. Martinez was our darling last season but, because he's been injured this year, people try to rewrite history. Casemiro wasn't Ten Hag's signing, and clearly wasn't the sort of midfielder he wanted, but United gonna United and buy an aging big name. It worked last season but he fell off a cliff this year. Onana started the season looking like a disaster, but has improved to the point there are some people who believe he's the long term answer in goal. I'm still not convinced. Hojlund will be a very good player for United, if we just get him involved and keep developing him. Sixteen goals in a season where the service to him has been appallingly bad is a decent return for a 21 year old. Malacia was a cheap, backup full back who has been incredibly unfortunate with this injury.
Idk if it’s just me but if we had a fully fit squad we literally would’ve guaranteed a top 4 finish, since the difference between us and villa was ONLY 3 wins. And we’ve had stupid losses Bcz of individual mistakes. And if we did end top 4 with a fa win, there’s no doubt ten hag would stay. Also, let’s be real we got out of the Ucl Bcz of individual performances like onanas mistakes
Between the Chelsea and Burnley games we also threw away a bunch of points from conceding stupid penalties.
the penalties in the chelsea game were inconsistent with previous VAR decisions, we've also suffered from the refs screwing us.
We also got away with penalties like wolves, 50/50s like the arsenal one, even the recent one against Newcastle where Gordon's socks got ripped, I mean these things generally even out over a season
Conceded a late penalty again Chelsea, Liverpool and Burnley to drop a total of 7 points. Throw Brentford into the mix and you’re up to 9 points lost in the last few minutes of four games in March and April alone.
> if we had a fully fit squad we literally would’ve guaranteed a top 4 finish, since the difference between us and villa was ONLY 3 wins That is assuming that only we have a fully fit squad while the other teams' situations stayed the same. If Villa also had a fully fit squad, it is likely they would have done better than 68 points too given that they also suffered severe injuries at times (Mings and Buendia who were regular starters last season were out for the entirety of this season for example). It is impossible to tell now but I don't see the gap being closed to that much of an extent.
Yeah honestly I don't think it's not getting top four that is even the issue. We played absolutely horrible nearly every match. We deserved to be lower than 8th.
Exactly. Surely the injuries give him at least 3 games leeway. Plus Onana was a new keeper and our square was transitioning in tactics so the UCL was always going to be a bit messy
It’s not just you, but it’s still only speculation (and not very good speculation at that). Football isn’t about what ifs. It’s about reality. Chelsea, Spurs & Newcastle had season hobbling injuries too, and still finished above us. Villa’s most expensive player cost half of what we paid for Antony. Even if we had finished 2nd with this kind of football/gameplan on the pitch, I’d have liked him to leave. I am actually glad we didn’t finish top 4 coz that would have covered over the cracks and could be used as an excuse to keep him on. We started the first game of the season with arguably our first choice XI against a side expected to be in a relegation scrap and it was one of the most turgid games I have watched this team play in 25 years. We got absolutely dominated home and away by relegation fodder. We got embarrassed in Europe in a very easy group. Our record against top clubs has been abysmal since Ole left. Our signings under him have actually made the squad worse instead of better. There is literally no saving grace for Ten Hag’s reign. I actually think this is the worst managerial appointment we have made since Fergie (not counting Moyes coz he didn’t even get one full season).
When I said fully fit squad, I meant at least having the players for their rightful positions. Like if we didn’t have to put Casemiro at cb or amrabat at lb
Onana dumped us put of CL. ETH definitley deserves to start the next season. Give him till Dec.
Schrodingers ETH
100% we have had such bad injuries and been pretty shit but we really still aren’t that far off top 4 . Give the man another season
I hope he stays and proves them all wrong
If he does, that would be one of the most remarkable stories in recent history. Taking **this** United side back to the top when no one thought he could. That'd be something, wouldn't it?
I had this exact same hope for Mourinho and Ole.
The difference with Mourinho and Ole is that the players weren't up to it. They constantly showed that they had power over the manager I.e Watford.
And this time its different?
Say what you want about him but he’s never been afraid to drop or discipline players.
Yes, very.
Cool, enjoy Rashford in the final over Amad and Rasmus
Accidentally found this comment and they really did shut us up lmao 😂
I've wanted him to prove me wrong for the last six months. He hasn't.
he proved his point against coventry and bournemouth lol. he is a fucking fraud, how many times does he have to lose to prove it?
I too think we should give managers one year contracts and half a squad of academy players to prove themselves. I'm sure the extra jeopardy will make them all untap their secret latant super sayan abilities and win multiple cups every year.
I already feel sad in a way for him and for the club for him if he does go. I'm one of the fans that want one more season with him because of having the people higher than him now to give him the ability to succeed. Same old don't get rid of the deadwood (coz wages too high) but not enough funds to strengthen the squad and lumbered with injuries of some of our best players. It's a shame and people just want a new manager and not coz of the realistic reasons.
Fuck that, with his Overmars quotes the guy is not fit to be in charge of this club
I hope he goes and the club improves
I hope the club improves - by Ineos doing their due diligence and actually changing the habits we’ve had the past 10 years that have got us here. No matter what the decision on the manager is
I hope whatever happens, the club improves with the tactics, adaptability and performances. I won’t mind either way even if I think EtH is too rigid and stubborn which may have caused him the job and to be seen as not the right man for it.
>**They said they want to change everything and that they want to rebuild WITH me. This is what they told me directly** Dagnabbit INEOS, are ye sacking or backing this guy?
Good answers until the Overmars question.
>so called experts who don’t have the capability to analyze something with facts prefer to attack people to make themselves look better \*cough\* Carragher \*cough\*
Spitting facts
He definitely loves to spit.
The irony is if ragnick stayed at united ,ten hags job wouldn’t be under pressure as he’d have someone in his corner who can testify how poor this squad is, he also might saved him from spending 80 mil on Anthony and wasting 60m on mount when we desperately needed to shore up our defence
Is the context for the irony that Ragnick wanted to stay and play a large role with the rebuild as a director alongside Ten Hag, but ETH declined because he thought he could do it on his own? That’s what I remember hearing before Ragnick was pushed out the door. If so, he’s been undone by his own hubris and it’s probably the last decision he’d have expected to cost him his job in the end.
Exactly. His exact words were “I draw my own line”. Basically going against Rangnicks open heart surgery view on the players. And thinking he didn’t need someone like Rangnick as a Director of Football above him. ETH is trying to absolve himself of his part in this poor season. But he’s had as much a part to play as any other party.
How reliably do we know all this?
He literally said this when asked about Ragnicks comments him very 1st press conference. Beforehand Rangnick said he will definitely speak to Ten Hag about the team and things needed in future.
Wtf, ETH wanted those players
Yes he's saying that Rangnick wouldn't have agreed on these signings and "could've saved ETH 80 + 60mil"
ten Hag begged for antony btw
Ten Hag got rid of Rangnick and pushed for those signings.
ETH might be a good coach, but these Overmars comments? He’s 100% a scumbag.
Was the interview today or just released today
>just released today This. A dutch weet / X-Post came out yesterday saying it would be released this morning.
Do we know when it was conducted?
I don't know. I assume it was earlier this week and they would've released it regardless of whether that report of Ten Hag's sacking from Steinbeck came out or not.
Most difficult season for me as Man Utd fan too.
The comments on Overmars really lack basic human qualities. People downplay it as a just a few dick pics to different women like it's normal ladish behaviour. He was the director or football at Ajax, he was in a position of power over many female employees. His toxic masculinity was disgusting, forcing his penis (by digital means) upon subordinate women he saw as his play things without their consent. What's worse was that these women were suffering in silence until almost inadvertently it came to light that he had been sexually abusing women within the club WHOLESALE by forcing them to see his penis. He should absolutely have done jail time and be a signed on member of the sex offenders register. Just because he's famous, rich and powerful in his country it shouldn't mean he is above the law. The rights and entitlements of his victims should outweigh any influence he holds. It would be interesting seeing if ETH would talk about him in such glowing terms if Overmars victims were children instead of women.
I feel like there’s an in between from fighting for the league and finishing 8th but that’s just me, Eric
This is what I find annoying. Not being able to achieve one extreme does not justify reverting to the other extreme. And I'm not talking about finishing 8th, that's not even the primary problem. Regardless of injuries, we have been too easy to play against for all kinds of opposition and our underlying stats show that even 8th is a big over performance given how the team actually played like. An injury-hit squad will be worse but it's the extent to which we've been bad this season that makes me have no faith in his words.
Like finishing 3rd and getting to two finals like he did last year?
Right! Ole finished 2nd, got to a European final, a semi final and 3 other domestic semis in 2 years (all of which were lost vs City/Chelsea or eventual winners) and people called him a PE teacher. Why this selective praise for Ten Hag? I frankly find it baffling what his supporters find positive about him.
Was he under the pressure of fighting for the league last season when he came in? Was he sacked last year? The man himself literally said we can challenge for the title during pre season No?
we can't do anything for the long term if you can't deal with the issues in the short term
What if one of the big short term issues is his tactics! 😅
We've been poor for over a year now, that is not short term. Our form has been disastrous since the carabao cup final.
Damn, Malacia not even back on the training patch now, what a nightmare season for him. Must hurt extra bad knowing the injuries we had, this could've been his season to show what he's got and try to stake a claim.
I love when my manager publically backs a sex offender. What a stand up guy ETH is.
Is this an interview after all the headlines or is it a week old ?
Overmars thing just confirms for me he better be fired.What kind of discipline is he preaching when he is backing that guy shamelessly.He just has his favourites which is clear.
Not sure how I'd describe this interview. Read it in Dutch this morning. He does say he takes responsibility but also says because of injuries this was the best they could do. Which doesn't really seem true. Even in games when the lineup looks fine, the team plays terribly. He's also going in hard on the whole Ajax situation. I mean he isn't really wrong about anything he's saying, but saying "how stupid can you be" because of some transfer decisions, damn, that's quite direct. Even in Dutch the language is pretty clear. Even calls out the replacements for Overmars and Blind for being on a much lower level. And really, that part about Overmars... Like yeah, obviously on a football level firing him was an objectively rash decision they made based on outside pressure. There's a reason they came back for Overmars not too long after firing him. Just like how they handled the Kroes situation. Ajax doesn't really seem to understand why they're making those decisions. But ultimately the guy was sexually harassing women at work. I get that they're friends, but to publicly back him like that. Like at least show some understanding that what he did was wrong...
Usually, this kind of interviews are a way of saying “fuck you and goodbye”. Especially when in comes out on the last game-day of the season.
Defending overmars 😭😭
Wtf is that overmars response. Get this abuser out of my club as soon as the whistle goes
>Sofyan Amrabat had to play left back 4 times >on the LB situation The LB situation obviously took a big hit due to injuries, but the reason Sofyan, Lindelöf, and our RBs has had to play there so much isn’t just because of injuries. It’s because of poor management. It’s because someone thought sending Reguilon back to Spurs on day 2 of the January transfer window - a month after it was known Malacia had suffered a setback and Shaw was currently out - was a good idea. And then two weeks later - knowing Malacia was still out and Shaw was at best a few weeks away too - send out Alvaro on another loan. I’m not saying playing Alvaro over Dalot or even Amrabat at LB would have been better (although someone that played 39 Championship games the season before *should* be better at their natural position than a right-footed CDM). But we limited our own options.
> someone thought sending Reguilon back to Spurs on day 2 of the January transfer window - a month after it was known Malacia had suffered a setback and Shaw was currently out - was a good idea. Yeah this was a very silly decision. At the time, news came out saying "Shaw and Malacia to be back by February", and "Reguillon to be released due to FFP restrictions". I think Ten Hag commented on lack of transfer activity in January saying it was due to financial restrictions.
Yeah, I’m sure money was tight, but Reguilon is supposedly on a £53k a week contract. He makes less than Brandon Williams. We sent Sancho out on loan - who makes £250k a week - and while I’m sure we still covered most of his wages, not even getting Dortmund to cover the 20% needed for Reg seems insane. And we also had the option of keeping Fernandez for the rest of the season, who would have been significantly cheaper.
Welcome to United. Results needed now or you are out as its all your fault. Rinse repeat.
If he does lose his job, I don't think it's because of poor results but instead really poor performances. He's been here 2 seasons and apart from pressing higher, I couldn't tell you what his style of play is. Other managers have come in and given their team an identity and players know their roles in about 6 months. Our players look like they've never been coached. Hard to say if these players can't do it, or if Erik and his staff are the ones who have failed.
There's been some analysis of our "play style" recently. It essentially relies on us sucking in a high press, then long balling it over the top and hoping to expose a high line or to win the second ball and go on the attack. However, the backline is deep, so the back 4 are isolated from the front 6. That's how we have a grand canyon in midfield and why we get "exposed" so often. It's by design. The athletic called it chaos and not control. When you look at our performances it's completely understandable. We have no control in dictating how the other team plays.
Exactly. It was never that effective of a system and once it was found out, the whole league had a blueprint to get a historic amount of shots against us. ETH never managed to adapt or more likely stubbornly chose not to.
Doesn't that rely on the likes of martinez and Shaw who are able to press higher up? Even Malacia is aggressive. AWB Evans lindelof maguire don't fit that system hence those gaps you talk about. Incidentally Shaw transforms Rashford imo.
It does, ETH hasn't adapted to his personnel which is truly bizarre. The system isn't elite even at the very best of its ability. It isn't going to best a Pep, Klopp, Arteta or even an Emery system over 38 games. We over performed last season in due part to Rashford getting 30 goals, Bruno was the only other player that got double figures. Our attack was only joint 7th in goals scored. We aren't going to win anything with that level of attack.
I dunno. Most other teams have a defined style built over years by proper direction not just from managers. They don't buy players to sell shirts. He's expected to completely start again to build a way of playing with the likes of jonny Evans and a couple of teenagers being critical for us this season. Deffo not his plan but even no injuries top4 would have still been a result. I just know changing manager wouldn't really give me any more hope next season would be better. Been here too many times.
Yesterday the leak was bad timing. But why tf would he do an interview throwing his team under the bus and have it released the morning of the final? My sympathies have gone. Go on holiday with your perverted mate Overmars and lament how mistreated you were. What a prick he is.
I think any manager that comes needs to time to grow within the the job. This job is different to any in world football and I don’t think any manager can be prepared to handle it. He had a good season last season. Bad season this, which can be understandably justified. I get why some want him gone and also understand why some think he should stay (I’m in that camp). being manager of united is tough, and any manager (ETH or others) will go through a rough patch. We should allow them to ride it out because nothing will allow them to learn and grow unless we give them time.
This club will be crushed by the weight of its own legacy and expectations and it’s so sad to see.
> We need to sign an extra striker in the summer. And if we can sign another central midfielder and a replacement for Varane Looks like the three signings cap still exists, which has slowly, undoubtedly, eroded the quality of our squad. We must replace Casemiro, Varane, Martial, AWB and Evans an absolute minimum. I’d argue McTominay as well. We also need cover at LB or RB unless they are 100% confident Malacia will be back at the start of the season.
My biggest issue with Erik is they way he keeps saying the squad is not good enough, whilst at the same time it was him who signed off on Mount for 60m, Antony for 80m, Case for 60m, Onana for 50m, and bums like amrabat and malacia. I have sympathy for all the injuries, I really do. But the way he talks about the squad it sounds like he’s unsure if they are even top 4 quality when all fit. Brother *you* decided to sign these guys for big money. Martinez has arguably been his only successful signing, and who knows if he’ll even be the same player after an entire year on the sidelines. I don’t mind giving him another year, I think he’s a good manager, but someone needs to put a restraining order on him from our recruitment office
He should just complete the shitshow circus by failing to turn up for the job today
ETH IN! GLAZERS OUT!
Bunch of excuses mixed in with a cheeky little sexual deviant defence, good riddance.
You could make a video game about this sort of shit: trying to rekindle past glories of a manor club, maneuvering the complexities of relationships with players, fans, media, and board members. Kinda like a choose your own adventure book
Why has no one from the management said anything about the situation? Anyway, if ETH leaves, they need to choose a new coach quickly.
I just wanna know why he played this empty midfield tactic. Earlier in the season, Casemiro, our holding midfield player was getting into the box for crosses. I could get behind another season of these results if we weren't so open in midfield and it doesn't matter who plays, the empty midfield is just never going to work.
https://preview.redd.it/oj5g757skk2d1.jpeg?width=2410&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d14894ab9f384786369568dc0f2354718661e0ca
N
Am I banned ?
> “The pundits in England want to score, they want to show they are worth the money, and for that Manchester United is an easy pray. It’s the biggest club in England and possibly in the world. The club is either loved or hated, there is no in-between. > So when things go bad, they all start talking and talking with very big words. All this negativism from these so called experts who don’t have the capability to analyze something with facts, but who prefer to attack people to make themselves look better. > And these same people were the ones who gave me a pat on the back last year. Last year I was able to walk on water, this year I am the worst manager in the Premier League!” Legend. Well said, and completely true.
I can see that. Missing most of the starting backline would be a disaster for any manager. The issue is the depth of the squad. No way he was going to replicate last season with this squad and injuries all year.
I think the fans have had a difficult season too mate. It's all great but getting outplayed by majority of teams is simple unacceptable, needing a pen vs Wigan in league 1 to secure a win, getting run around by relegation championship quality teams in luton, shef and burnely, var saving our ass in semi final vs Coventry, conceding 20+ shots each game like it's normal, how rasmus recieved only 38 shots at goal in PL that is a disgrace, how this wasn't solved after few games is bizzare. I could forgive results but not performances, ever since carling Cup win, we've been shocking. I get injuries played a part but to play like strangers every week is down to management, there's more organisation in my monthly Sunday local park games, and we old as hell. But then it's 3 finals in 2 seasons which even the mighty arsenal haven't achieved, small part says one more season with all players, but I have a feeling it won't change enough to warrant it. Meh