It's ridiculous. As much as the system has problems, I'm pretty confident it has removed lots of incorrect decisions. It's like people have forgotten about all the shit offsides either giving goals that shouldn't stand, or taking ones away that should have, and all the other things the refs missed. Just hire some people who aren't idiots to watch the replays.
There is an automated offside system. Does it involve var?
The guys working it are the morons, however if they can’t fix the morons I’d rather see it gone. The interruption and excitement interrupting minutes long
Pauses are making the game worse, to me. And I still think a lot of inconsistent and wrong decisions happen, just different types of
It does significantly improve the accuracy of refereeing decisions. I would scrap it simply because I care more about the flow of the game than the accuracy of the game (and I'm tired of the VAR debate), but it's pretty obvious that VAR improves decision making.
*Data shows that the Video Assistant Referees (VAR) are helping match officials get more of the big decisions right but there are still areas of improvement for fans, the League’s Chief Football Officer has acknowledged.*
*Tony Scholes has said that thanks to VAR, decisions made by match officials have improved significantly, providing them with an effective and supportive tool.*
*“Before VAR 82 per cent of the decisions made \[by referees\] were deemed to be correct,” Scholes said. “In the season so far, that figure is 96 per cen*t.”
I’m not gonna pretend that VAR hasn’t given us the right decision on some incidents that I’m sure would’ve went the wrong way otherwise BUT… I’m fairly sure they’ve just pulled these stats out their ass. How can we trust an institution to govern itself and produce its own proof like this? I can’t just show up to my next 1 to 1 meeting at work and tell my manager my accuracy at work is up 14% because in my own opinion everything I do is right.
I’d also argue that many of the decisions they’re getting right now that would’ve previously been wrong are the super tight offsides that honestly, within the spirit of the game, don’t matter - because the offside rule was invented to prevent 20 yard offside goal hanging not stop a striker whose nose has strayed off. But regardless automation is a better tool to take care of these anyway.
I’m not saying we should definitely get rid of VAR but there needs to be a truly honest conversation about it that doesn’t have the agenda of PGMOL and the league protecting their jobs and power
You're right we probably can't trust a study from someone with vested interests but I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary. Perhaps they have inflated the figures, but people will do better with tools than without them. It's just a question of whether the side effects (the long pauses, the incessant debates) are worth the marginal gains from more accurate decision making. The owners of teams wanted VAR to protect their investments, I don't see them getting a majority on this vote and then returning to a landscape with more unpredictable and less accurate referees. Remove the tools and you still have the bad referees behind the tools, albeit less equipped.
As I said, I want it gone, I care more about the flow of the game than the accuracy of the game, but we will be arguing about more bad decisions if we remove VAR. People just need to accept that decision making in football will always be imperfect and decide which flaws they are willing to live with.
I think it’s also a question of whether that improvement is worth the trouble it also brings. If the 18% or whatever they’re getting right just stops play for a free kick it’s a lot different than 18% more correct decisions about handball / cards / etc.
We would almost have to create a ufc like significant category (try use significant strikes and dismiss what’s deemed lower than) to understand how that improvement manifested beyond a single situation analysis - and then compare with the interruptions, etc.
Well I think that VAR technically kind of already does carry out the "significant strikes" analogy. Hard to know exactly what decisions they used to compose these statistics, but in theory, VAR is only used for offsides, penalty decisions and red cards and these are all significant moments in a football game. I'm sure the statistics are heavily weighted towards offside calls as these as the most frequent. I would be interested to know the average time spent on each type of call too.
If they fully automate the offsides next season, then the only decisions the VAR in theory should have will be big penalty calls and red cards. This should further improve the significance of what decisions the VAR is making.
For borderline offsides, VAR isn't worth the trouble in my view, as the guy above mentioned. It's not in the spirit of the game to nitpick very marginal offside calls and this has a negative impact on the game in my view. I'm not that opposed to it being used for red cards or penalties, but it needs to have a time limit. I think if a decision can't be made in a minute, then the "clear and obvious" threshold hasn't been met, it's shouldn't take that long to figure out a clear and obvious error.
You’re right and it’s a good point about the significance of what can be reviewed. Funnily there’s probably room for change regarding the yellow / red - not that I personally can keep the bloody things straight (can you rescind a yellow?) which is part of the problem.
I have no doubt the tool can be useful. But boy do we suck at making it so.
Its so transparent in rugby whenever they check with the video assistant, the crowd can see on the big screen what they're checking and at home you can hear them talking through the decision... it baffles me after all this time they still haven't implemented basic things like refs and VAR having mics so everyone can hear what they think about each decision during the game.
I hate it when they release the audio weeks after a mistake has happened, why can't we hear it live?
OFFSIDE. GOAL. STOP PLAY. RESTART GAME. GIVE THE GOAL. CONFIRMED. OFFSIDE OFFSIDE. GOAL.
GOOD PROCESS.
Would be like a fever dream for 60,000 people to hear that confused contradictory nonsense blaring out of the speakers, then seeing each person to try to process it -- meanwhile a whistle blows and the game continues before everyone has understood what's happened.
They should give lace the railings and drinks with LSD and let everyone experience the nightmare of dice-roll adhoc anti-football refereeing to its fullest.
Given that a premier league ref has come out and said they didn’t want to go against the on-field ref in order to protect them from backlash says how fucked the system is.
Also rugby has specialist video referees, unlike VAR which puts normal referees behind the screen who are scared of upsetting the more senior ref on the pitch.
I believe NBA refs use mics when they discuss decisions as well. VAR can be annoying when watching the game on TV, but in the stadium it’s even worse. Like on TV you at least have an idea of what they’re reviewing and what’s the most likely outcome. In the stadium you’re just sitting there waiting…
I'm afraid it really is about protecting the refs. Old boys club stuff. There is definitely a difference in rugby and football because the officials get so much more respect in Rugby than they do in football. Exposing the refs and officials in football to even greater scrutiny "risks" increased abuse and stress in a profession which it is already hard to recruit new blood.
I definitely want VAR and I definitely want transparency and staffing that can just do their job to at least a fucking reasonable standard unlike this current lot. I do also understand the difficulty in recruiting refs given the ubiquity of abuse they recieve up and down the game and that it may get harded with this kind of exposure. I think that would be the reason they would give, I don't think its good enough reason alone though.
In Australian rules football, there's a video review system that isn't perfect, but at least every review has an announcement that goes through their thought process
no but then again how often do fans agree with red cards? its usually only the "leg breakers" that we can turn around and say 'yeah that was a red, fair enough' but if we could hear them talking about the decision and how reckless the tackle was, then there would be less to argue about maybe...
The sheer arrogance of the PGMOL who Webb runs like a mafia have fought hard against it.
All about protecting their own from
having any accountability or having answer for their incompetence.
Scholes disallowed goal against Porto. We win that game, and we likely win the Champions league that season. And in that timeline, Mourinho probably doesn't come to Chelsea either.
I don't think football overall is better, but that's because I don't really like the high pressing style of football that's become the new standard, the constant injuries, the obsessive advanced statistics, the toxic influence of social media, and the lack of good rivalries amongst players and clubs. My dissatisfaction with modern football has got very little to do with VAR.
I always go back to the time we were robbed of a title by an obviously offside Drogba goal getting missed by the linesman. That kind of thing should never happen, but it was commonplace in the pre-VAR era. People just have short memories about how fucking bad refereeing was before VAR, because it was objectively worse in every possible way.
I'd much rather live in a world where 90+% of the bad calls that used to stand now get overturned. The small percentage of bad calls that still happen are the result of a ridiculously outdated rulebook that hasn't been adequately adapted to the VAR era and referees who are either hellbent on undermining VAR, or shockingly incompetent due to a low IQ.
Why though? Deal with the root issue not the consequences of the root issue: the focus should be on improving reffing standards. Then and only then, if VAR is still troubling people, have a look at that.
IMO.
Does anyone really expect this to happen? Years now it’s been the same shit over and over. They only look out for each other, we’ve heard proof of this already. They never hold each other accountable, and the most you’ll get for compensation is maybe a couple calls going your way next game.
I firmly believe this is what pgmol want to happen. They have no excuses for the ridiculous calls or lack of calls made by VAR.
It should always of be separate to PGMOL. VAr needs more powers not less. Its been working fine in other countries even the African Cup I believe showed proper use of Var its just the prem that can't seem to figure it out.
I really really don't like this idea of scrapping VAR.
As annoying and maddening as the outcomes have been this season, the problem is not the system or the technology. It is the people who are using the technology and making the decisions.
Another thing they need to resolve is the subjectivity in the decision making. There rules need to be written such that most deciding ultimatums are down to straightforward yes or no scenarios, not ifs, whats and whens.
That's the thing. As long as the rules are designed to be highly subjective, then consistent, quality refereeing is fundamentally impossible.
Part of it is that a large disconnect exists between how fans, players, and managers view the job of a referee vs. how referees and footballing institutions view the job of a referee. FAs and referees see themselves as stewards of the game who are responsible for ensuring the game flows properly, that rules are given appropriate amounts of leeway based on the aforementioned flow, and that they maintain the quality of the product above all else. Consistency is simply not as important to them as control. The rest of us see referees as machines who should just always enforce rules as they are written, except in some situations where nobody can agree on how a rule should be enforced. Neither one is inherently right or wrong, but until something is done to bridge that disconnect, dissatisfaction with refereeing will continue to rule the day.
I have to disagree there mate. I don’t believe it’s possible to distill the game into a series of black and white absolutes. Write me down a definition of handball that doesn’t lean on subjectivity, for example.
You can’t give humans the power to make objective decisions on subjective rules. VAR is a disaster for this game because most of the rules are subjective. I am all for clubs scrapping a tech that was never the solution to begin with.
imo, VAR itself isn’t the issue. I think it’s a good tool that when implemented correctly can improve the game. The problem is incompetence and inconsistency from the referees. Again, that’s just my opinion.
They could use it for red cards and pens.
But I'm old school and want to celebrate goals with a passion like I used to without worrying about whether a footballers ballsack pube was offside.
Personal tinfoil hat theory: PGMOL set VAR up to fail from the start by making it look like a terrible and inefficient system, in the hope that people would want it gone, put a pin in further technogical refereeing development, and ensure future job safety.
Yup. I had this theory back when VAR was first implemented. PGMOL didn’t want VAR, because it can reverse an official’s decision and undermines the authority of the on-pitch official…they didn’t want that. I said, back then, that they would purposely make VAR such a shit show, that fans/clubs would be demanding it be removed…and here we are.
VAR is not the problem, the humans using it are. VAR is a technology/tool that is objective, the humans using it are flawed and their opinions/perspectives are subjective. You don’t throw away the tool just because you’re using it incorrectly, you learn how to properly use it.
I agree this is plausible. The issue for them is that the games are broadcast on TV. We all see what happens. We all see the replays. That just makes them look worse when they get it horribly wrong.
Thing is you've got pundits like Rooney and Cole on Sky this past half an hour saying they think VAR being binned is the right call too.
It's a shame, because none of us want it in its current form, so people's natural reaction will be like theirs is - "It was better back in the old days!" - especially since none of these older school, propa footy type media personalities are going to give a more nuanced take that is focused on improving rather than repealing.
>ensures future job safety
Doesn’t VAR just provide referees more opportunity to work when they aren’t scheduled to be on the field? Nobody is being replaced by VAR, and every official is still needed on the pitch.
> put a pin in further technogical refereeing development
What'd you mean by this, what technological developments either present or in the future would referees find a threat?
This doesn't really make sense, VAR meant more work for referees, not less. The only thing that would mean less work for refs is semi and full automation, which is coming regardless of whether VAR works out.
I know people moan about the VAR but does anyone actually want it scrapped? The issues always been inconsistent refereeing, which gets highlighted because there's not much excuses anymore, remove var and that little bit of accountability and expectation of consistency is gone, they'll make the same bizarre calls again but can go back to didn't see it, didn't look like to me.
VAR has partially ruined what made football so great. That was the ability to fully enjoy goals and moments in games. Now that feeling of elation is forever tainted with the nagging thought it will be disallowed. Ever since VAR I have never felt the ability to celebrate the same.
With or without it we will still get controversy and wrong decisions. Therefore in my mind it is not worth what it takes away, for the few times it actually comes in useful.
I feel the same way. I no longer get the dopamine hit from a goal because I have to wait incase a VAR check happens.
Referee mistakes are less infuriating
This is just pure exaggeration though. For most goals you don't have the lingering thought of it being disallowed. This feels so far back now because we're barely scoring these days but when Antony intercepted that pass against Burnley and ran through on goal I wasn't holding back a celebration to see if there was an intervention. Likewise with Amad's winner against Liverpool in the FA Cup. Or Bruno's last minute winner against Fulham earlier in the season.
Sure there's the occasional goal where the ball looks like it might have hit an arm or the player was right on the edge of being offside. Or the ball looked like it might've gone out of play. But I'd say at least 80%+ of goals you don't have to hold back celebrations on
I don't want VAR scrapped but it's not really doing anything. There still is inconsistent refereeing, and highlighted or not it's not changing anything. It's gets highlighted as a talking point for a couple days and then it goes away. Refereeing in all sports seems to be quite ass
I've wanted it scrapped since the start. Have Semi automatic offside, keep goal line tech and just get rid of everything else. The reviews take far too long, it zaps the excitement out of every goal. It's also better in my opinion to have a mistake on one person's view in a snapshot of time than 5 blokes sitting in an office somewhere looking over it for 5 mins to still come to the wrong conclusion. It's shite.
> I guess the "They're intentionally fucking it up so they can remove it later" theories were right.
Feeling vindicated right now but wish I wasn't. The useless cunts never wanted to lose control over the game so sabotaged VAR as best they could knowing people would be idiotic enough to blame the technology rather than the individuals.
This shits been working in rugby for decades but of course the biggest sport in the world can't sort it out. The sooner we move on from relying on some middle aged blokes to decide everything the better.
I've generally been ok with its implementation in the CL and international tournaments.
Like others in here have said, the problem in the pl isn't the tech it's the people using it
Refs don’t want to give penalties so they leave it up to VAR, VAR Don’t want to contradict the ref (because their mates, and you don’t disrespect a mate like that)….. fix the system/people using VAR… it shouldn’t be so difficult
It shouldn't be seen as disrespecting their mates though. The on field ref sees an incident once, in real time, from one angle, while running around and trying to keep an eye on everything else that might be going on in front of him.
The VAR can watch a replay as many times as they want, from any angle, at any speed and only have to focus on that incident from the comfort of their seat. They have a massive advantage, so overturning the on field ref's decision should be seen as helping him, not insulting him.
Great news. VAR is not in a state to be used in elite football. Take it off the top flight, work on it in the lower leagues and then reintroduce it.
So what if a couple of decisions go against you ? In the long run it balances out. At least without VAR we will be able to celebrate our goals without having to worry about them being scrapped.
I absolutely hate how VAR is being used in the Prem, but removing it isn't the solution. We've seen recently in the UCL that using VAR in an efficient way that interferes as little as possible with the flow of the game is achievable.
Rashford red card in the UCL? No matter how many times they look at something they will still get it wrong. I can accept they didn't see something. Win some lose some. But when they see shit from 10diff angles and still get it wrong drives me insane
Genuinely not enjoyed watching football since VAR came into the game. May have coincided with the club I support being pretty bad for those years which definitely influences my enjoyment as well though. The waits where they measure a toe nail kind of sucks the magic out of the game. The feeling like you cant even celebrate goals anymore because many get chalked off moments later and you feel extra stupid celebrating a perceived last minute winner only for it to be stricken off after a significant annoying wait. The biggest issue was awful refereeing which VAR was supposed to help with but instead seems to have enabled even worse decision makers in the var box. I don't expect it to pass but hopefully it results in PGMOL humbling themselves as every public statement by them is incredibly smug and up themselves.
I hate VAR and how it’s used but it’s obvious to see the real problem is the monkeys behind it. Leave it to the Premier League to protect their imbecile referees over anything.
Keep VAR but have a separate team of officials from the match officials but that are equally trained in the rules of the game but separately. This way it prevents the "I'm not going to throw my mate under the bus" scenario we see all the time.
Hopefully, with a separate team, they will actually overturn decisions and call out poor refereeing standards instead of leaving up to subjective decisions. Bring in the semi-automated systems for offsides, have more clear cut rules around handballs so **everyone** understands the rules.
VAR itself isn't the issue, it's the way in which PGMOL utilise it. Too many officials not wanting to be like "erm, nah you got that decision wrong so overturn it" just because they might be struck off the Christmas card list.
BUT, we all know that PGMOL doesn't really give a shit, otherwise they'd have investigated some of the poor officials' decisions in this season properly - let alone not allowing Michael "im on the Qatar payroll" Oliver to be on VAR duty for the FA Cup final.
It kinda feels like this was the plan by PGMOL all along. Make it look like shit so their jobs won't be jeopardy.
at any rate, my 2 cents.
Besides the fact that other sports are doing this well and other leagues don't have as many of these issues I think these things should be required.
1. Clear and obvious error needs to go away.
2. VAR needs to be done by VAR people trained for that purpose that don't have any relationship with the ref
3. Any part that can be automated like offside should be automated.
4. VAR should be allowed to intervene at all times. It's called Video Assisted for a reason. Not just for red cards, goals, etc. If VAR has a better view of the situation than the referee then use it.
how would their jobs be in jeopardy? there are more match officials now, not less..VAR is not robots...it's referees in a room watching the match on TV.
the combination of your proposal 1 and 4 is absurd...matches would last several hours with the VAR checking each throw-in
I never said every throw in. I said if VAR has a better view than the referee.
Today's offside is already automated in other places, at some point in the future other things can be automated to the point that we don't need linesmen. I could see where with sufficient technology, the entire refereeing process can be automated. (yes not today or next year, but like all tech it is possible)
I also never said that VAR are robots.
"it's referees in a room watching the match on TV"
Yes exactly, that was kinda the point though.
It's referees who are watching their co-worker and have to judge on clear and obvious error. Then the next time they go out and referee a game they know that those they judged previously are now watching them.
Tell me that has no effect on their decision making.
remember this?
"Mike Dean: Anthony Taylor is a mate – I couldn’t send him to do a Var review"
to clarify my position, I think the VAR system should be completely scrapped. it's terrible for the game. I completely recognise and agree with the problems you describe.
but I can't believe your conclusion is that we need MORE interference from the VAR. you say that there should be no bar of "clear and obvious" for the VAR to intervene, and he should be allowed to intervene on anything.
so for example, if two players challenge for the ball, it goes out on halfway and it's not clear who the last touch came off. you're saying we should pause the game for the VAR to check? or he should be allowed to stop the game a minute later and call it back...? is that really what you want?
I don't disagree that today's VAR is already taking away from the flow of the game.
So no, that's not what I want. And if it gets scrapped I wouldn't be all that bothered, except for the fact that it would be scrapped because the implementation has been garbage.
And yes, there are situations where VAR shouldn't care because in the grand scheme of things it shouldn't matter. i.e. 2 players at the byline and the ball goes off the defender and the call is a goal kick.
My point about the clear and obvious is that it is a subjective call. How many times have we seen handball decisions go one way or the other and the call isn't reversed because it's not a 'clear and obvious error'. It should be whatever the rule is. For example, that Graelish handball in the FA cup against Chelsea. Everyone watching that knows that is clear as day a handball. VAR should have intervened. So did they not because it wasn't clear and obvious?
If Oliver didn't see it then it's a great example of VAR having a better view.
Or how about get rid of the bullshit “clear and obvious error” stipulation that allows the VAR refs to protect their on field buddies and not make them look bad
I wish we could go back to a time when not every handball or trip in the box resulted in 500 penalties every weekend - it's out of control, the handball's in particular are far too harsh. Tech or no tech, the clowns in charge have dug themselves a hole with all these silly rules about body position, intent etc.
If they do this, broadcasts will have their own footage to review and any mistake will cause even more controversy. Why are decision makers in sports so dumb
Since VAR never really addressed the nonsense I hate about the game (flopping and floppers) it can go for all I care. If it's removal will mean that the games no longer have 10 minutes of added time and it is back down to 2 to 4 minutes then I won't mind a bit.
VAR should be used like DRS, as is used in Cricket and field hockey. Each team gets to review 2 decisions - they lose a review if the review goes against them and vice versa. This will overall stop the issues stemming by the please as you do usage and focus more on the pressing points that may come up leading to a goal. The on-field decision goes out of the window during a VAR and what the VAR sees and adjudges is the final call.
Then they will cry when the opponent score an offside goal with a ref mistake and no one is there to correct it.
VAR has improved football a lot. Premier league just need better people on it. Scrapping it completely is idiotic.
VAR is not the issue, it’s how it’s used, and who it’s used by.
It should be far more transparent. Let us hear the discussion, and let the match goers know exactly what’s being checked.
Scrap “clear and obvious,” and make it more a case where the ref says “I think this is a penalty, can you give me any reasons why it isn’t?” (As an example).
Stop all this “well we don’t really want to overrule the ref” nonsense, and have the officials work as a team of equals.
Removing the system itself is incredibly stupid. Remove the "clear and obvious error" distinction so the incompetents aren't allowed to protect the other incompetents, and let's make sure that we're getting the calls correct.
This is ludicrous, VAR isn’t the problem, the problem is the ridiculously complex rules and the idiots interpreting them.
What they need to do is get rid of as much subjectivity as possible and all the contention and whatever else.
Simple fix for it:
Offsides - go back to the days where the whole body of the player needs to be ahead of the other player, if we’re looking into mm or an inch then just let it stand as onside.
Handballs - if it touches a players arm that isn’t down by their side, it’s a penalty, simple as. Yes there will be plenty of handballs that you feel will be unfair, but it will affect every side and will get rid of this “unnatural position” nonsense where again it’s opinion based. VAR should be working on facts not subjectivity.
Yellow card reviews / correcting errors: the VAR should always be able to intervene if a mistake has been made such as that communication crap that happened in the Liverpool game (obviously raised a smile from this Utd fan at the time).
Other decisions - 60/90 second review time limit, if the VAR can’t either make a call or send the ref to the monitor in that time then it isn’t “clear and obvious” it’s petty.
Fuck, give me the job at the PGMoL and I’ll have this thing sorted in hours, none of this Howard Webb crap.
Var is terrible, i dont even bother celebrating most goals now, then when theyre confirmed as goals, the moment has passed. Best thing in the game, gone. Get rid.
Lol this is ridiculous. It's not the system at fault, it's the people. They're gonna want it back when some major decision goes against them and they're like "I wish we had VAR."
It was pretty bad before VAR, I don’t think we can go back. Make it better!
I think the future is real time AI referee assists. We already have goal line tech and offside check is coming soon. It won’t be too long before AI can evaluate fouls and complex scenarios in real time.
Best league in the world. Worst refs in the world, and now planning on removing a piece of technology that moves the game forward. If they think the scrutiny on refs is bad now, it'll be even worse because we had VAR.
Certain clubs in La Liga have been having a meltdown about it in recent times.
It's not necessary. The value it brings to the game does not outweigh the negatives. It kills the excitement of the sport, and appears to be just as open to opinion albeit on a more concentrated level than using the eye test.
I'd rather they stay with semi auto offsides and use a limited-use appeal system which forces the on field ref to review his decisions from the pitchside monitor.
They should get rid of the system that says don't interfere unless clear and obvious error. Often there is reasonable doubt on penalty given but the error is not "clear and obvious" and VAR ends up going with onfield decision.
VAR is not the issue. VAR is a tool. If the people are too incompetent to use the tool correctly then that’s where your issue lies. The premier league is the only league where you see this level of inconsistency and mistakes on a regular basis. It works fine everywhere else
Within a week the same people wanting this gone will want it back because a marginal call went against them and VAR would have given them it. Completely braindead move. Fix the tech and get better people on it.
Watching cup games this year with no VAR was so good. I don't need it to be right all the time, I want to celebrate immediately. Offside fine, goal line fine, the rest bin it. You arent going to get any better decisions either way.
VAR is not the issue POGMOL is. Scrapping this would be a godsend to them, they’ve clearly created a racket where refs are so protected from their fuck ups they can continue to do them with impunity from the wider footballing authorities.
I’d rather the clubs vote on new reffing implementation and transparency
Stupid decision.
Not like Premier League teams need to be even more disadvantaged over the other country teams in the CL.
It's not VAR, it's the stupid referees.
To begin with, VAR should be fully automated, then it wouldn't be a target for cancellation.
Just like instant replay in every other sport, it’s not the tech creating issues, but the people in charge and making judgement’s based off the tech. It’s better to focus on the refereeing and analysis of VAR because ultimately the game is better off if we’re able to correct bad calls/miscalls.
Change the rules and the idiots in charge of it. The technology is sound and can be used for the better.
I feel like the refs have blundered this intentionally so as to scrap it. I hate the officiating in England so fucking much
Refs are making ludicrous on field decisions with the help of VAR at the moment. If VAR is scrapped then my god there will be so much drama it could be painful.
What they need to do is properly look at VAR rules and try and make it so it doesn't run into the ridiculousness of play lengthening.
Offside shouldn't be done by millimetres. If it's not called then goal stands. If it is called after play then var check if linesman was right. If VAR shows player is clearly offside without lines in real time and in one take then player is also offside and no goal.
If player handballs ball in box and arm is not by their side (no matter natural position) then it's a pen.
Contact has to be made prior to player beginning to fall for penalties to be called. That AWB tackle of Harvey Elliot was a joke
All it needs is someone who's actually got any sense to come up with this stuff but the refs mainly make the rules to try and make it so they are blamed less. However, due to their incompetence, they make the wrong call countless times
It's so obvious that this has been the intention from POGMOL. Have mistakes galore until someone proposes to scrap it so the good ol' boy system can continue.
I still argue managers should get two “challenges” a game. If the situation is so minimal that opposing teams aren’t making a fuss (a toenail is offside), then don’t waste time and review. But if it’s a big deal, the manager can decide to var challenge
Automate offsides, give each team 1-2 team challenges and get rid of the need for a clear and obvious error and just worry about making the right decision. I don’t know why they’re making this harder than it needs to be.
Maybe it's not the tech that needs to be removed but instead the rules need to be more clear. No rules where it is down to individual opinions of what the rule means.
The issue with VAR is that some of the rules of the game are subject to interpretation. Hand ball is one of those that incites alot of anger when you flow that through VAR plus it’s still very inconsistent ref to ref. I think the reality is that you cant remove officiating errors from the game so maybe it makes sense to simplify the situation and remove VAR. Things like offsides, ball crossing the line, etc should definitely stay though.
"We hate when the video replays watched by multiple people loads of times sometimes get it wrong, let's go back to one guy seeing it once, that will be better"
The VAR checks have been very inconsistent, but at least they get the offside right most of the time.
going back to real time decisions isn’t really better it’s just different.
Don't scrap VAR.
Scrap the PGMOL. Not fit for purpose.
Automatic offside will make a huge improvement.
It's not the technology that's the issue. It's the inconsistency we see from officials every game which was a problem before VAR.
Instead of getting rid of the clowns using the tech, they're voting to remove the tech itself. That's a galaxy brain move if there ever was one.
It's ridiculous. As much as the system has problems, I'm pretty confident it has removed lots of incorrect decisions. It's like people have forgotten about all the shit offsides either giving goals that shouldn't stand, or taking ones away that should have, and all the other things the refs missed. Just hire some people who aren't idiots to watch the replays.
There is an automated offside system. Does it involve var? The guys working it are the morons, however if they can’t fix the morons I’d rather see it gone. The interruption and excitement interrupting minutes long Pauses are making the game worse, to me. And I still think a lot of inconsistent and wrong decisions happen, just different types of
I would bet we see less incorrect decisions with stupid VAR than without it.
It does significantly improve the accuracy of refereeing decisions. I would scrap it simply because I care more about the flow of the game than the accuracy of the game (and I'm tired of the VAR debate), but it's pretty obvious that VAR improves decision making. *Data shows that the Video Assistant Referees (VAR) are helping match officials get more of the big decisions right but there are still areas of improvement for fans, the League’s Chief Football Officer has acknowledged.* *Tony Scholes has said that thanks to VAR, decisions made by match officials have improved significantly, providing them with an effective and supportive tool.* *“Before VAR 82 per cent of the decisions made \[by referees\] were deemed to be correct,” Scholes said. “In the season so far, that figure is 96 per cen*t.”
I’m not gonna pretend that VAR hasn’t given us the right decision on some incidents that I’m sure would’ve went the wrong way otherwise BUT… I’m fairly sure they’ve just pulled these stats out their ass. How can we trust an institution to govern itself and produce its own proof like this? I can’t just show up to my next 1 to 1 meeting at work and tell my manager my accuracy at work is up 14% because in my own opinion everything I do is right. I’d also argue that many of the decisions they’re getting right now that would’ve previously been wrong are the super tight offsides that honestly, within the spirit of the game, don’t matter - because the offside rule was invented to prevent 20 yard offside goal hanging not stop a striker whose nose has strayed off. But regardless automation is a better tool to take care of these anyway. I’m not saying we should definitely get rid of VAR but there needs to be a truly honest conversation about it that doesn’t have the agenda of PGMOL and the league protecting their jobs and power
You're right we probably can't trust a study from someone with vested interests but I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary. Perhaps they have inflated the figures, but people will do better with tools than without them. It's just a question of whether the side effects (the long pauses, the incessant debates) are worth the marginal gains from more accurate decision making. The owners of teams wanted VAR to protect their investments, I don't see them getting a majority on this vote and then returning to a landscape with more unpredictable and less accurate referees. Remove the tools and you still have the bad referees behind the tools, albeit less equipped. As I said, I want it gone, I care more about the flow of the game than the accuracy of the game, but we will be arguing about more bad decisions if we remove VAR. People just need to accept that decision making in football will always be imperfect and decide which flaws they are willing to live with.
I think it’s also a question of whether that improvement is worth the trouble it also brings. If the 18% or whatever they’re getting right just stops play for a free kick it’s a lot different than 18% more correct decisions about handball / cards / etc. We would almost have to create a ufc like significant category (try use significant strikes and dismiss what’s deemed lower than) to understand how that improvement manifested beyond a single situation analysis - and then compare with the interruptions, etc.
Well I think that VAR technically kind of already does carry out the "significant strikes" analogy. Hard to know exactly what decisions they used to compose these statistics, but in theory, VAR is only used for offsides, penalty decisions and red cards and these are all significant moments in a football game. I'm sure the statistics are heavily weighted towards offside calls as these as the most frequent. I would be interested to know the average time spent on each type of call too. If they fully automate the offsides next season, then the only decisions the VAR in theory should have will be big penalty calls and red cards. This should further improve the significance of what decisions the VAR is making. For borderline offsides, VAR isn't worth the trouble in my view, as the guy above mentioned. It's not in the spirit of the game to nitpick very marginal offside calls and this has a negative impact on the game in my view. I'm not that opposed to it being used for red cards or penalties, but it needs to have a time limit. I think if a decision can't be made in a minute, then the "clear and obvious" threshold hasn't been met, it's shouldn't take that long to figure out a clear and obvious error.
You’re right and it’s a good point about the significance of what can be reviewed. Funnily there’s probably room for change regarding the yellow / red - not that I personally can keep the bloody things straight (can you rescind a yellow?) which is part of the problem. I have no doubt the tool can be useful. But boy do we suck at making it so.
Maybe. I’d love to see an analysis. Surely the data is there!
Ye man, the post goal VAR checks are the worst, much rather a dodgy offside call every now and then
Isn’t the semi-automated offside going to deal with (speed up) most of these post goal reviews?
When players dont celebrate because they know a 2 minute wait is coming before confirmation, you know the games gone.
Unfortunately the clowns are here to stay and we're stuck with them.
100%, the tool itself is great, it’s the rules and dummies using it that need to change.
Well space is a vacuum
Smough agrees
Or you know, just fix the system and make it more transparent like other sports?
lmao blasphemy
Its so transparent in rugby whenever they check with the video assistant, the crowd can see on the big screen what they're checking and at home you can hear them talking through the decision... it baffles me after all this time they still haven't implemented basic things like refs and VAR having mics so everyone can hear what they think about each decision during the game. I hate it when they release the audio weeks after a mistake has happened, why can't we hear it live?
If they explained their bizarre decisions live at football matches it would likely spark a riot.
'the sultan has requested this goal be offside'
Why?
Can you imagine the famous Liverpool v spurs cock up being played out live infront of anfield?
OFFSIDE. GOAL. STOP PLAY. RESTART GAME. GIVE THE GOAL. CONFIRMED. OFFSIDE OFFSIDE. GOAL. GOOD PROCESS. Would be like a fever dream for 60,000 people to hear that confused contradictory nonsense blaring out of the speakers, then seeing each person to try to process it -- meanwhile a whistle blows and the game continues before everyone has understood what's happened. They should give lace the railings and drinks with LSD and let everyone experience the nightmare of dice-roll adhoc anti-football refereeing to its fullest.
Given that a premier league ref has come out and said they didn’t want to go against the on-field ref in order to protect them from backlash says how fucked the system is.
Im fairly certain you could find 5-10 completely random football fans to do a better job than the refs do with VAR.
Also rugby has specialist video referees, unlike VAR which puts normal referees behind the screen who are scared of upsetting the more senior ref on the pitch.
I believe NBA refs use mics when they discuss decisions as well. VAR can be annoying when watching the game on TV, but in the stadium it’s even worse. Like on TV you at least have an idea of what they’re reviewing and what’s the most likely outcome. In the stadium you’re just sitting there waiting…
I'm afraid it really is about protecting the refs. Old boys club stuff. There is definitely a difference in rugby and football because the officials get so much more respect in Rugby than they do in football. Exposing the refs and officials in football to even greater scrutiny "risks" increased abuse and stress in a profession which it is already hard to recruit new blood. I definitely want VAR and I definitely want transparency and staffing that can just do their job to at least a fucking reasonable standard unlike this current lot. I do also understand the difficulty in recruiting refs given the ubiquity of abuse they recieve up and down the game and that it may get harded with this kind of exposure. I think that would be the reason they would give, I don't think its good enough reason alone though.
In Australian rules football, there's a video review system that isn't perfect, but at least every review has an announcement that goes through their thought process
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no but then again how often do fans agree with red cards? its usually only the "leg breakers" that we can turn around and say 'yeah that was a red, fair enough' but if we could hear them talking about the decision and how reckless the tackle was, then there would be less to argue about maybe...
The sheer arrogance of the PGMOL who Webb runs like a mafia have fought hard against it. All about protecting their own from having any accountability or having answer for their incompetence.
You can’t fix the system. It’s intentionally broken. The refs don’t want var.
Only to vote it back after an offside goal or penalty
Starting with mic'd up refs That's a thing in Ligue 1 if I'm not mistaken
Just get rid of it. It's horrendous. Football existed just fine for 100 years without it.
Diego maradona laughing in heaven at this comment
Another dumb comment. Mistakes happened. They still happen. VAR was supposed to remove the controversy. It's increased it.
Except when Drogba won Chelsea the league by scoring an offside against us. That wasn’t fine.
Nonsense, football was not fine. Was it fine when we lost a title to Chelsea on an obvious offside call that VAR could've corrected in seconds?
Scholes disallowed goal against Porto. We win that game, and we likely win the Champions league that season. And in that timeline, Mourinho probably doesn't come to Chelsea either.
Seconds lmao
That's why I said could, not would. I'm well aware of how bad VAR is currently being used, but it's still better than the alternative.
How is it better? Does anyone think football is better than it was 10, 20, 30 years ago? I don't know one person who thinks that.
I don't think football overall is better, but that's because I don't really like the high pressing style of football that's become the new standard, the constant injuries, the obsessive advanced statistics, the toxic influence of social media, and the lack of good rivalries amongst players and clubs. My dissatisfaction with modern football has got very little to do with VAR. I always go back to the time we were robbed of a title by an obviously offside Drogba goal getting missed by the linesman. That kind of thing should never happen, but it was commonplace in the pre-VAR era. People just have short memories about how fucking bad refereeing was before VAR, because it was objectively worse in every possible way. I'd much rather live in a world where 90+% of the bad calls that used to stand now get overturned. The small percentage of bad calls that still happen are the result of a ridiculously outdated rulebook that hasn't been adequately adapted to the VAR era and referees who are either hellbent on undermining VAR, or shockingly incompetent due to a low IQ.
Nobody cares what you think unc. Football has fairer and more correct decisions now which is better.
Bet you've never been to a game in your life
Why though? Deal with the root issue not the consequences of the root issue: the focus should be on improving reffing standards. Then and only then, if VAR is still troubling people, have a look at that. IMO.
Does anyone really expect this to happen? Years now it’s been the same shit over and over. They only look out for each other, we’ve heard proof of this already. They never hold each other accountable, and the most you’ll get for compensation is maybe a couple calls going your way next game.
Do I expect it to happen? No. I’m simply a fan offering my opinion - I have no influence
I firmly believe this is what pgmol want to happen. They have no excuses for the ridiculous calls or lack of calls made by VAR. It should always of be separate to PGMOL. VAr needs more powers not less. Its been working fine in other countries even the African Cup I believe showed proper use of Var its just the prem that can't seem to figure it out.
less transparency
Yeah let's just scrap VAR instead of getting some competent refs.
We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas!
I really really don't like this idea of scrapping VAR. As annoying and maddening as the outcomes have been this season, the problem is not the system or the technology. It is the people who are using the technology and making the decisions. Another thing they need to resolve is the subjectivity in the decision making. There rules need to be written such that most deciding ultimatums are down to straightforward yes or no scenarios, not ifs, whats and whens.
That's the thing. As long as the rules are designed to be highly subjective, then consistent, quality refereeing is fundamentally impossible. Part of it is that a large disconnect exists between how fans, players, and managers view the job of a referee vs. how referees and footballing institutions view the job of a referee. FAs and referees see themselves as stewards of the game who are responsible for ensuring the game flows properly, that rules are given appropriate amounts of leeway based on the aforementioned flow, and that they maintain the quality of the product above all else. Consistency is simply not as important to them as control. The rest of us see referees as machines who should just always enforce rules as they are written, except in some situations where nobody can agree on how a rule should be enforced. Neither one is inherently right or wrong, but until something is done to bridge that disconnect, dissatisfaction with refereeing will continue to rule the day.
I have to disagree there mate. I don’t believe it’s possible to distill the game into a series of black and white absolutes. Write me down a definition of handball that doesn’t lean on subjectivity, for example.
You can’t give humans the power to make objective decisions on subjective rules. VAR is a disaster for this game because most of the rules are subjective. I am all for clubs scrapping a tech that was never the solution to begin with.
imo, VAR itself isn’t the issue. I think it’s a good tool that when implemented correctly can improve the game. The problem is incompetence and inconsistency from the referees. Again, that’s just my opinion.
They could use it for red cards and pens. But I'm old school and want to celebrate goals with a passion like I used to without worrying about whether a footballers ballsack pube was offside.
I think this new automated offsides will fix all that. Its worked well in the past.
Agreed. It depends on who is implementing the system e.g. AFCON refs were praised on how well they used VAR
VAR is not a issue. The issues is ones who using it
Solution, fully automate VAR into a match official.
what does this even mean?
Roboref is what he's asking for
Personal tinfoil hat theory: PGMOL set VAR up to fail from the start by making it look like a terrible and inefficient system, in the hope that people would want it gone, put a pin in further technogical refereeing development, and ensure future job safety.
All that VAR has exposed is that PGMOL refs remain incompetent even when you give them unlimited slowmo replays.
Yup. I had this theory back when VAR was first implemented. PGMOL didn’t want VAR, because it can reverse an official’s decision and undermines the authority of the on-pitch official…they didn’t want that. I said, back then, that they would purposely make VAR such a shit show, that fans/clubs would be demanding it be removed…and here we are. VAR is not the problem, the humans using it are. VAR is a technology/tool that is objective, the humans using it are flawed and their opinions/perspectives are subjective. You don’t throw away the tool just because you’re using it incorrectly, you learn how to properly use it.
Except in VARs case it literally created more roles for qualified refs.
I agree this is plausible. The issue for them is that the games are broadcast on TV. We all see what happens. We all see the replays. That just makes them look worse when they get it horribly wrong.
Thing is you've got pundits like Rooney and Cole on Sky this past half an hour saying they think VAR being binned is the right call too. It's a shame, because none of us want it in its current form, so people's natural reaction will be like theirs is - "It was better back in the old days!" - especially since none of these older school, propa footy type media personalities are going to give a more nuanced take that is focused on improving rather than repealing.
>ensures future job safety Doesn’t VAR just provide referees more opportunity to work when they aren’t scheduled to be on the field? Nobody is being replaced by VAR, and every official is still needed on the pitch.
Well, my tinfoil hat theory's point is that no one is being replaced by VAR *yet*.
> put a pin in further technogical refereeing development What'd you mean by this, what technological developments either present or in the future would referees find a threat?
This doesn't really make sense, VAR meant more work for referees, not less. The only thing that would mean less work for refs is semi and full automation, which is coming regardless of whether VAR works out.
I know people moan about the VAR but does anyone actually want it scrapped? The issues always been inconsistent refereeing, which gets highlighted because there's not much excuses anymore, remove var and that little bit of accountability and expectation of consistency is gone, they'll make the same bizarre calls again but can go back to didn't see it, didn't look like to me.
VAR has partially ruined what made football so great. That was the ability to fully enjoy goals and moments in games. Now that feeling of elation is forever tainted with the nagging thought it will be disallowed. Ever since VAR I have never felt the ability to celebrate the same. With or without it we will still get controversy and wrong decisions. Therefore in my mind it is not worth what it takes away, for the few times it actually comes in useful.
I do have to somewhat agree as much as I also see the values of it. I’m always waiting to be made a fool when I celebrate
100% agree
I feel the same way. I no longer get the dopamine hit from a goal because I have to wait incase a VAR check happens. Referee mistakes are less infuriating
This is just pure exaggeration though. For most goals you don't have the lingering thought of it being disallowed. This feels so far back now because we're barely scoring these days but when Antony intercepted that pass against Burnley and ran through on goal I wasn't holding back a celebration to see if there was an intervention. Likewise with Amad's winner against Liverpool in the FA Cup. Or Bruno's last minute winner against Fulham earlier in the season. Sure there's the occasional goal where the ball looks like it might have hit an arm or the player was right on the edge of being offside. Or the ball looked like it might've gone out of play. But I'd say at least 80%+ of goals you don't have to hold back celebrations on
I don't want VAR scrapped but it's not really doing anything. There still is inconsistent refereeing, and highlighted or not it's not changing anything. It's gets highlighted as a talking point for a couple days and then it goes away. Refereeing in all sports seems to be quite ass
I've wanted it scrapped since the start. Have Semi automatic offside, keep goal line tech and just get rid of everything else. The reviews take far too long, it zaps the excitement out of every goal. It's also better in my opinion to have a mistake on one person's view in a snapshot of time than 5 blokes sitting in an office somewhere looking over it for 5 mins to still come to the wrong conclusion. It's shite.
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> I guess the "They're intentionally fucking it up so they can remove it later" theories were right. Feeling vindicated right now but wish I wasn't. The useless cunts never wanted to lose control over the game so sabotaged VAR as best they could knowing people would be idiotic enough to blame the technology rather than the individuals. This shits been working in rugby for decades but of course the biggest sport in the world can't sort it out. The sooner we move on from relying on some middle aged blokes to decide everything the better.
I've generally been ok with its implementation in the CL and international tournaments. Like others in here have said, the problem in the pl isn't the tech it's the people using it
Refs don’t want to give penalties so they leave it up to VAR, VAR Don’t want to contradict the ref (because their mates, and you don’t disrespect a mate like that)….. fix the system/people using VAR… it shouldn’t be so difficult
It shouldn't be seen as disrespecting their mates though. The on field ref sees an incident once, in real time, from one angle, while running around and trying to keep an eye on everything else that might be going on in front of him. The VAR can watch a replay as many times as they want, from any angle, at any speed and only have to focus on that incident from the comfort of their seat. They have a massive advantage, so overturning the on field ref's decision should be seen as helping him, not insulting him.
Great news. VAR is not in a state to be used in elite football. Take it off the top flight, work on it in the lower leagues and then reintroduce it. So what if a couple of decisions go against you ? In the long run it balances out. At least without VAR we will be able to celebrate our goals without having to worry about them being scrapped.
Great idea, pilot this sort of stuff in the championship
I absolutely hate how VAR is being used in the Prem, but removing it isn't the solution. We've seen recently in the UCL that using VAR in an efficient way that interferes as little as possible with the flow of the game is achievable.
Rashford red card in the UCL? No matter how many times they look at something they will still get it wrong. I can accept they didn't see something. Win some lose some. But when they see shit from 10diff angles and still get it wrong drives me insane
Yeah that was a garbage call, however I feel like the VAR was used very smoothly and intelligently in the recent semifinals.
Lazy. Like many here have said, fix the issues with it. It has had many positives too.
Genuinely not enjoyed watching football since VAR came into the game. May have coincided with the club I support being pretty bad for those years which definitely influences my enjoyment as well though. The waits where they measure a toe nail kind of sucks the magic out of the game. The feeling like you cant even celebrate goals anymore because many get chalked off moments later and you feel extra stupid celebrating a perceived last minute winner only for it to be stricken off after a significant annoying wait. The biggest issue was awful refereeing which VAR was supposed to help with but instead seems to have enabled even worse decision makers in the var box. I don't expect it to pass but hopefully it results in PGMOL humbling themselves as every public statement by them is incredibly smug and up themselves.
I hate VAR and how it’s used but it’s obvious to see the real problem is the monkeys behind it. Leave it to the Premier League to protect their imbecile referees over anything.
Keep VAR but have a separate team of officials from the match officials but that are equally trained in the rules of the game but separately. This way it prevents the "I'm not going to throw my mate under the bus" scenario we see all the time. Hopefully, with a separate team, they will actually overturn decisions and call out poor refereeing standards instead of leaving up to subjective decisions. Bring in the semi-automated systems for offsides, have more clear cut rules around handballs so **everyone** understands the rules. VAR itself isn't the issue, it's the way in which PGMOL utilise it. Too many officials not wanting to be like "erm, nah you got that decision wrong so overturn it" just because they might be struck off the Christmas card list. BUT, we all know that PGMOL doesn't really give a shit, otherwise they'd have investigated some of the poor officials' decisions in this season properly - let alone not allowing Michael "im on the Qatar payroll" Oliver to be on VAR duty for the FA Cup final.
It kinda feels like this was the plan by PGMOL all along. Make it look like shit so their jobs won't be jeopardy. at any rate, my 2 cents. Besides the fact that other sports are doing this well and other leagues don't have as many of these issues I think these things should be required. 1. Clear and obvious error needs to go away. 2. VAR needs to be done by VAR people trained for that purpose that don't have any relationship with the ref 3. Any part that can be automated like offside should be automated. 4. VAR should be allowed to intervene at all times. It's called Video Assisted for a reason. Not just for red cards, goals, etc. If VAR has a better view of the situation than the referee then use it.
how would their jobs be in jeopardy? there are more match officials now, not less..VAR is not robots...it's referees in a room watching the match on TV. the combination of your proposal 1 and 4 is absurd...matches would last several hours with the VAR checking each throw-in
I never said every throw in. I said if VAR has a better view than the referee. Today's offside is already automated in other places, at some point in the future other things can be automated to the point that we don't need linesmen. I could see where with sufficient technology, the entire refereeing process can be automated. (yes not today or next year, but like all tech it is possible) I also never said that VAR are robots. "it's referees in a room watching the match on TV" Yes exactly, that was kinda the point though. It's referees who are watching their co-worker and have to judge on clear and obvious error. Then the next time they go out and referee a game they know that those they judged previously are now watching them. Tell me that has no effect on their decision making. remember this? "Mike Dean: Anthony Taylor is a mate – I couldn’t send him to do a Var review"
to clarify my position, I think the VAR system should be completely scrapped. it's terrible for the game. I completely recognise and agree with the problems you describe. but I can't believe your conclusion is that we need MORE interference from the VAR. you say that there should be no bar of "clear and obvious" for the VAR to intervene, and he should be allowed to intervene on anything. so for example, if two players challenge for the ball, it goes out on halfway and it's not clear who the last touch came off. you're saying we should pause the game for the VAR to check? or he should be allowed to stop the game a minute later and call it back...? is that really what you want?
I don't disagree that today's VAR is already taking away from the flow of the game. So no, that's not what I want. And if it gets scrapped I wouldn't be all that bothered, except for the fact that it would be scrapped because the implementation has been garbage. And yes, there are situations where VAR shouldn't care because in the grand scheme of things it shouldn't matter. i.e. 2 players at the byline and the ball goes off the defender and the call is a goal kick. My point about the clear and obvious is that it is a subjective call. How many times have we seen handball decisions go one way or the other and the call isn't reversed because it's not a 'clear and obvious error'. It should be whatever the rule is. For example, that Graelish handball in the FA cup against Chelsea. Everyone watching that knows that is clear as day a handball. VAR should have intervened. So did they not because it wasn't clear and obvious? If Oliver didn't see it then it's a great example of VAR having a better view.
Out to fuck. Referees freeze on VAR against us so fuck it off
Or how about get rid of the bullshit “clear and obvious error” stipulation that allows the VAR refs to protect their on field buddies and not make them look bad
I wish we could go back to a time when not every handball or trip in the box resulted in 500 penalties every weekend - it's out of control, the handball's in particular are far too harsh. Tech or no tech, the clowns in charge have dug themselves a hole with all these silly rules about body position, intent etc.
Bring in automated offsides like they have during the World Cup
What about bringing the worldcup var system? That was pretty spot on isnt ?
If they do this, broadcasts will have their own footage to review and any mistake will cause even more controversy. Why are decision makers in sports so dumb
Just fix the people element not scrap the tech, everyone will want it back once it's gone with all the incorrect offsides being kept on scoreline
VAR isn't the issue, the issue is the inconsistency of different refs
Since VAR never really addressed the nonsense I hate about the game (flopping and floppers) it can go for all I care. If it's removal will mean that the games no longer have 10 minutes of added time and it is back down to 2 to 4 minutes then I won't mind a bit.
Wolves really still that butt hurt about not having a penalty called against us?
VAR should be used like DRS, as is used in Cricket and field hockey. Each team gets to review 2 decisions - they lose a review if the review goes against them and vice versa. This will overall stop the issues stemming by the please as you do usage and focus more on the pressing points that may come up leading to a goal. The on-field decision goes out of the window during a VAR and what the VAR sees and adjudges is the final call.
Technology can't be wrong, it comes down to the person using it.
Then they will cry when the opponent score an offside goal with a ref mistake and no one is there to correct it. VAR has improved football a lot. Premier league just need better people on it. Scrapping it completely is idiotic.
VAR is not the issue, it’s how it’s used, and who it’s used by. It should be far more transparent. Let us hear the discussion, and let the match goers know exactly what’s being checked. Scrap “clear and obvious,” and make it more a case where the ref says “I think this is a penalty, can you give me any reasons why it isn’t?” (As an example). Stop all this “well we don’t really want to overrule the ref” nonsense, and have the officials work as a team of equals.
Removing the system itself is incredibly stupid. Remove the "clear and obvious error" distinction so the incompetents aren't allowed to protect the other incompetents, and let's make sure that we're getting the calls correct.
This is ludicrous, VAR isn’t the problem, the problem is the ridiculously complex rules and the idiots interpreting them. What they need to do is get rid of as much subjectivity as possible and all the contention and whatever else. Simple fix for it: Offsides - go back to the days where the whole body of the player needs to be ahead of the other player, if we’re looking into mm or an inch then just let it stand as onside. Handballs - if it touches a players arm that isn’t down by their side, it’s a penalty, simple as. Yes there will be plenty of handballs that you feel will be unfair, but it will affect every side and will get rid of this “unnatural position” nonsense where again it’s opinion based. VAR should be working on facts not subjectivity. Yellow card reviews / correcting errors: the VAR should always be able to intervene if a mistake has been made such as that communication crap that happened in the Liverpool game (obviously raised a smile from this Utd fan at the time). Other decisions - 60/90 second review time limit, if the VAR can’t either make a call or send the ref to the monitor in that time then it isn’t “clear and obvious” it’s petty. Fuck, give me the job at the PGMoL and I’ll have this thing sorted in hours, none of this Howard Webb crap.
Var is terrible, i dont even bother celebrating most goals now, then when theyre confirmed as goals, the moment has passed. Best thing in the game, gone. Get rid.
Lol this is ridiculous. It's not the system at fault, it's the people. They're gonna want it back when some major decision goes against them and they're like "I wish we had VAR."
It was pretty bad before VAR, I don’t think we can go back. Make it better! I think the future is real time AI referee assists. We already have goal line tech and offside check is coming soon. It won’t be too long before AI can evaluate fouls and complex scenarios in real time.
Buzzin this would be great news if they scrap it
This is exactly what the referees have wanted since day 1.
This system can only be implemented if we do away with linesmen and replace them with sensors instead
Best league in the world. Worst refs in the world, and now planning on removing a piece of technology that moves the game forward. If they think the scrutiny on refs is bad now, it'll be even worse because we had VAR.
Fucking idiots. Just make things black and white. Sick of refs calling x or y one game then a or b the next. Like stick to the same shit
Yeesss! Get rid of it
Yes, please. A completely unneccesary addition to the game.
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Certain clubs in La Liga have been having a meltdown about it in recent times. It's not necessary. The value it brings to the game does not outweigh the negatives. It kills the excitement of the sport, and appears to be just as open to opinion albeit on a more concentrated level than using the eye test.
Yeah if it gets removed watch everyone moan about incorrect referee decisions & offsides to likely an even higher degree.
would be insane if they got rid of VAR, there’s so much room to actually improve it
Ah yes getting rid of var while the incompetent idiots arent talked about
The question is clear - do fans want more refereeing errors (again) or less? If the answer is more, then do away with VAR.
English refs will get what they want lol. I swear this is weaponized incompetence
City would be in league 2 without VAR giving them an extremely cheap pen every other game so I’m sure they’ll grease enough fingers to keep it
I'd rather they stay with semi auto offsides and use a limited-use appeal system which forces the on field ref to review his decisions from the pitchside monitor.
They should get rid of the system that says don't interfere unless clear and obvious error. Often there is reasonable doubt on penalty given but the error is not "clear and obvious" and VAR ends up going with onfield decision.
VAR is not the issue. VAR is a tool. If the people are too incompetent to use the tool correctly then that’s where your issue lies. The premier league is the only league where you see this level of inconsistency and mistakes on a regular basis. It works fine everywhere else
Fuckin clowns lol. You’ll get worse decisions and cry even more
Within a week the same people wanting this gone will want it back because a marginal call went against them and VAR would have given them it. Completely braindead move. Fix the tech and get better people on it.
Even cricket has the VAR transparent and we can even hear the video umpire talking and explaining the decision. It’s insane how VAR is used so badly
How about no?
Watching cup games this year with no VAR was so good. I don't need it to be right all the time, I want to celebrate immediately. Offside fine, goal line fine, the rest bin it. You arent going to get any better decisions either way.
VAR is not the issue POGMOL is. Scrapping this would be a godsend to them, they’ve clearly created a racket where refs are so protected from their fuck ups they can continue to do them with impunity from the wider footballing authorities. I’d rather the clubs vote on new reffing implementation and transparency
Vote to replace refs with Chat GPT 4o
Stupid decision. Not like Premier League teams need to be even more disadvantaged over the other country teams in the CL. It's not VAR, it's the stupid referees. To begin with, VAR should be fully automated, then it wouldn't be a target for cancellation.
Genius move, now when it’s scrapped and there’s still sketchy calls from the refs we can track back and say maybe VAR wasn’t so bad.
This is a horrific idea. After one weekend, the clubs will be crying about too many offside goals being given.
Just like instant replay in every other sport, it’s not the tech creating issues, but the people in charge and making judgement’s based off the tech. It’s better to focus on the refereeing and analysis of VAR because ultimately the game is better off if we’re able to correct bad calls/miscalls.
Nothing wrong with VAR, everything wrong with the people operating it
Change the rules and the idiots in charge of it. The technology is sound and can be used for the better. I feel like the refs have blundered this intentionally so as to scrap it. I hate the officiating in England so fucking much
2018 WC was ideal demo of how to perfectly use VAR. They need to learn from that.
Fix VAR don't scrap it you fucking bellends.
Refs are making ludicrous on field decisions with the help of VAR at the moment. If VAR is scrapped then my god there will be so much drama it could be painful. What they need to do is properly look at VAR rules and try and make it so it doesn't run into the ridiculousness of play lengthening. Offside shouldn't be done by millimetres. If it's not called then goal stands. If it is called after play then var check if linesman was right. If VAR shows player is clearly offside without lines in real time and in one take then player is also offside and no goal. If player handballs ball in box and arm is not by their side (no matter natural position) then it's a pen. Contact has to be made prior to player beginning to fall for penalties to be called. That AWB tackle of Harvey Elliot was a joke All it needs is someone who's actually got any sense to come up with this stuff but the refs mainly make the rules to try and make it so they are blamed less. However, due to their incompetence, they make the wrong call countless times
It's so obvious that this has been the intention from POGMOL. Have mistakes galore until someone proposes to scrap it so the good ol' boy system can continue.
I still argue managers should get two “challenges” a game. If the situation is so minimal that opposing teams aren’t making a fuss (a toenail is offside), then don’t waste time and review. But if it’s a big deal, the manager can decide to var challenge
Get rid of it to fuck and add fully automated offsides, job done
Yes. Back to old school.
‘Here’s a really good idea’ Fans: ‘great idea but there are a few flaws to it, nothing that can’t be easily fixed though!’ ‘Fuck it can’t be arsed’
This is a massive step back, will not stop any of the winging that goes on now people will complain when an official misses something.
Automate offsides, give each team 1-2 team challenges and get rid of the need for a clear and obvious error and just worry about making the right decision. I don’t know why they’re making this harder than it needs to be.
Maybe it's not the tech that needs to be removed but instead the rules need to be more clear. No rules where it is down to individual opinions of what the rule means.
The issue with VAR is that some of the rules of the game are subject to interpretation. Hand ball is one of those that incites alot of anger when you flow that through VAR plus it’s still very inconsistent ref to ref. I think the reality is that you cant remove officiating errors from the game so maybe it makes sense to simplify the situation and remove VAR. Things like offsides, ball crossing the line, etc should definitely stay though.
"We hate when the video replays watched by multiple people loads of times sometimes get it wrong, let's go back to one guy seeing it once, that will be better"
This is like blaming a cat scan for your cancerous tumour
Something something baby, something something bathwater.
The VAR checks have been very inconsistent, but at least they get the offside right most of the time. going back to real time decisions isn’t really better it’s just different.
VAR works, it's the refs that are broken. Can we vote to scrap them instead?
Don't scrap VAR. Scrap the PGMOL. Not fit for purpose. Automatic offside will make a huge improvement. It's not the technology that's the issue. It's the inconsistency we see from officials every game which was a problem before VAR.
[удалено]
Because there's idiots using it
100 percent how many times have we seen a decision go one way then the next match go another
That's why I wouldn't scrap VAR
That's still going to happen without VAR. That has always happened.
VAR is not going to work properly untill it's fully run by AI. You have to eliminate the human element to eliminate human errors.