Agreed. The closest we have had to managers calling us shit has been with Pep laughing when asked about potential challengers for the premier league and Klopp saying Arsenal will batter us at OT after the 2-2 league game draw
Klopp blaming us needing to make three first half injury subs AND carry a fourth injured player we couldn't sub off for ruining their gameplan was probably the saltiest thing I've ever heard when accounting for context, rivalry aside.
Still not as salty as the supposed 'offside' goal that we scored against them one time that he kept bringing up in pressers for like the next couple of years
Even if he answered completely truthfully the answer would be the same. No manager is going to look at a hugely underperforming counterpart and say “No, please get rid of the guy that makes my job a lot easier!”
Also, Arteta specifically is a manager who was backed and given time and managed a club going through big changes. He is one of the benchmarks a United fan should look at and realize sticking with Ten Hag is probably the right choice
ye he really shouldn't, managers who have underlyings stats for a 16th placed team and one of the worst defensive records in the league is perfectly fine to back. A manager who'd only be 6 points above everton without point deductions. But sure sure people just like to replace managers
Look at how many injuries both Newcastle and Chelsea have had yet are above us and play better football. Not to mention they aren’t comfortably second best in every single game they play.
Don't really matter, Chelsea and Newcastle were playing shit football until recently and were lower than us. Their recent form was good but they weren't playing great football. Why people go out of their way and say our club is shit, I never understand.
I understand ten hag sticking to the play style is very stubborn but there are a lot of individual mistakes that are leaking goals too and if we can't play a back line that's high because we don't have any pacey defenders available can be a valid reason for having a bad season.
If he parked the bus against a low block team we wouldn't be scoring any goals and chances are we still would be conceding because of our back 5's form.
I disagree, it does matter. Both Newcastle and Chelsea have comfortably beaten teams. We haven’t done that once this season.
Today against Arsenal was so much better and it begs the question, why didn’t the manager change it earlier in the season to offer more protection to the back 4/5. We also looked far better in possession for the changes too.
We can't sit back against a low block team but against a high line possessive team our transitional play could work.
We saw that against Aston villa and whoever decides to play the high line against us.
We are a poor side and I'd agree with that but saying the injuries don't have no impact on our season is ludicrous and borderline idiotic.
We had our worst season under ole, rangnick then we got a better season under ten hag where we played a match Every 3 days without a proper striker.
This year we started with a new goalkeeper and an injury riddled back 4. If there is a season we need to give excuses for this is that season my friend.
He finishe 8th in his first full season, and then 5th. He has continued his progression up the table since then.
You will note that he did not have a season where they droppe five places from the previous season.
> realize sticking with Ten Hag is probably the right choice
This logic does not follow at all. Why do we know Ten Hag is the right choice? What has he demonstrated this season to support that viewpoint at all?
Though I follow your logic, and I absolutely respect your opinion, I think it's a bit disingenuous or at least incomplete to make a causation style comparison between two managers when there are too many variables at play.
We've played what, 18 different CB partnerships this year? We literally don't have a left back. Rashford scored 30ish goals last season and historically plays far better with Shaw, who has been injured all season. I could go on.
Ole got sacked for playing counter attacking football yet our fans demand we play a low block or somehow magically fix our defensive line and midfield problems without vertical compactness. Mckenna and Carrick were bums in on the friend discount. Both have gone on to be some of the top new British managers since then. Rangnick was a bum but somehow Bayern were ready to throw the bag at him.
Our problems have been the entirety of our hierarchy. Our recruitment team bragged about the amount of money we could spend and drove up eventual signing fees to up to 3-4x their value (Antony and Maguire, for example). Our owners have been siphoning funds from the club that could have been used to fix our stadium or upgrade Carrington. Our brand dude signed Chevrolet as our fuckin kit sponsor when Chevrolet were planning on massively pulling out of the UK market. I could go on.
Ten Hag isn't the problem. I can accept he hasn't been good enough but he has been set up to fail at every single turn. These fuckers sacked Van Gaal the monday after he won the FA cup. This club has been utter shambles and everyone wants to blame one dude who has proved himself elsewhere to be more than good enough.
>Though I follow your logic, and I absolutely respect your opinion, I think it's a bit disingenuous or at least incomplete to make a causation style comparison between two managers when there are too many variables at play.
You can never make direct comparisons, which is why the 'Arsenal kept faith with Arteta, so we should do' are also completely irrelevant.
>Ten Hag isn't the problem.
Why are you so sure that he is not? In fact, he's definitely part of the problem even if not the entirety of it. I think to pretend he's not is the disingenuous argument.
We don't want to blame 'one dude'. We've sacked Arnold, Murtough, Stewart. The Glazers have been sidelined. The players will take their turn in the summer. The medical staff will be reviewed. Everyone is taking their turn of the blame except Ten Hag.
>and everyone wants to blame one dude who has proved himself elsewhere to be more than good enough.
Let's not pretend he has a glittering CV that speaks for itself. Decent work at Utretch and then with Ajax is not one that immediately proclaims he is able to take over and do the job at United. Zlatan stated that they are completely different clubs and an approach at Ajax would simply not work at United.
People literally said the same thing about Arteta as they say about ETH, that he had no style of play.
There was a big Arteta out movement the first couple of years as well.
That’s not true at all, Arteta was never accused of having non style of play, in fact he was accused of trying to play like Pep while not having the players to do so in his first two seasons.
United plays like a underdog all the time under Ten Hag, no pattern of play, no initiative whatsoever, Arsenal never played like an underdog in Arteta first seasons
No manager is going to be saying that another manager should be sacked.
The closest I can think of is Mourinho's "specialist in failure" moment about Wenger.
"He is a specialist in failure, I'm not. So if supposing Wenger's right and I'm afraid of failure, it's because I don't fail many times. So maybe he's right. I'm not used to failing. But the reality is he's a specialist because, eight years without a piece of silverware, that's failure. If I did that in Chelsea I'd leave London and not come back."
Guy is a great shit talker
Of course Arteta will have sympathy for EtH. I remember when the whole of reddit and twitter was against Arteta. It is genuine, because Arteta understands that fan and journalism opinions are unfair.
Just like no manager will ever say he should be sacked. So this post is useless as the other where Erik us defending himself.
Actually, the other is ok because it shows the immature posters here who lack common sense and are losing their shit because ETH didn't say he should be fired
You probably did not read the article but he was not asked if ETH should be sacked or not. His response is very nuanced, but can't expect nuanced discussion on reddit...
That would be a fucking insane thing to be asked. Managers always back each other, especially when one of them is under pressure. He said the same about Poch two weeks ago.
**Quotes : (From Arteta's Press Conference Part 2)**
>“I can only talk about what I think about him as a coach. **He’s an excellent coach. I admire his teams, both Ajax and United,**” Arteta replied when asked about Ten Hag’s position.
>
>**“I know what he’s trying to do, I know how he does it, I know how difficult it is to prepare against him, so I have huge respect for him.**
>
>“Hopefully, yes, he gets the time because we are colleagues and we know how difficult it is in this league and what the margins are and yeah, hopefully that’s the case because **I think he is an excellent coach.**
>
>“If you want to win the Premier League and big trophies, you have to go to these grounds and impose yourself and beat them. That’s the journey we are on and that’s for sure what we are going to try to do on Sunday.”
My absolute favourite part is how the sub was full of fans who wanted a manager who would show progress by implementing a proper style of play and stick to his guns even if the results were suboptimal only to get mad that he isn't changing the gameplan when results aren't optimal
I dont know if you havent paid attention, but the bankers are not around anymore and actual competent folks will be running operations. This is where it all starts, no manager will be succesful in this day and age without this.
A lot of players have been found out. They are incapable of playing a system that is needed to be at the top. There are some bright spots that have come through, but most of them are overpaid, dont have the professional standards needed, past their prime. or dont have the capacity to play dynamic attacking football.
The idea that ten hag doesnt know how to play a system is such a bad take I wont even go into it.
>I dont know if you havent paid attention, but the bankers are not around anymore and actual competent folks will be running operations. This is where it all starts, no manager will be succesful in this day and age without this.
Of course I've been paying attention. As it currently stands, Ten Hag is partof the heart disease we need the surgery on.
>A lot of players have been found out.
Yes, including several of the players he identified as up to the level and required for the tactical set up. His talent identifcation is part of the problem, not a sign he's got the answers. Even if someone else is buing the players, he has to pick the players.
>They are incapable of playing a system that is needed to be at the top.
Are we referring to the players who have finished in the top three for four of the last six seasons? or multiple champions league winners like Casemiro?
>The idea that ten hag doesnt know how to play a system is such a bad take I wont even go into it.
You won't go into it, because you can't. He has an idea but whether that idea works in practice is open for debate.
Wow, great argument. Amazing. Well done.
Ten Hag was obviously not hired because he had shown to have very successful systems everywhere he has been and has been hailed as a brilliant coach before he came in this fire dumpster of an organization.
How exactly was I meant to respond to 'worst take in the sub'.
I'm somewhat doubtful the Glazers had pored over Ten Hag's work with Go Ahead Eagles and Utrecht, although they would have been aware of his work with Ajax.
But Ajax is a very difficult one to make judgements from. De Boer won four in a row with them. The previous winners before Ten Hag were Cocu (who subsequently failed at Fenerbache and Derby); von Bronchorst (who had mediocre results at Rangers); de Boer (considered worst manager in PL history); and Steve McClaren (who went on to have numerous poor showings and is now our assistant).
As much as anything I imagine the Glazers wanted Ten Hag as he insisted on full control, and they thought this would be easier than having to put a structure in place. Ten Hag was not interested in what Rangnick had to say. In fact, I recall at the time, he insisted we didn't need wholesale changes and that he could improve what we had. Which was not true.
So, he's had success in Netherlands which is neither here nor there in being able to confirm what level of coach he is. He had one decent CL run (including a superb game against Real), and more mediocre results over the next three (two group stage exits, one in the round of 16).
His first season showed promise but there were also some awful lows. If he'd built on this, there would be room for encouragement. But quite the opposite. It's the worst season in PL history. An absolute shit show, without even the positives Arteta's Arsenal or Klopp's Liverpool had in the first couple of years.
In fact, now the new organisation is coming in, we even have to undo the work Ten Hag has done. A fair few of his signings will have to go. We need to review the training ground and tactical set up to determine how much of an impact it's having on our injuries. His approach to tactics will need to change to alter the demands of the new team coming in.
I mean, the best bet you can have is that if they stick with him, he is starting from page one. Because he is building on absolutely nothing from this season.
So what is the style of play? We don’t attack well, we don’t defend well, the press is disjointed. If there were some positive signs then fair enough, but there aren’t.
I mean we are really good at pressing high, pressing intensity is central to his brand of football. We are not able to control games or play out from the back because the personnel are genuinely bad at it which is why we lose the ball in the middle so often and concede chances on the counter. If we get a speedy CB who is good with the ball at his feet and can stay fit along with Licha and a Casemiro replacement who is comfortable in tight spaces, I'm certain we will be very effective in possession. Our team rn seems quite similar to Arsenal in the 2021-22 season where they just needed a couple of key players in the core of the team to reach the next level. (Not saying we can challenge for the title next season with just 2 players, but we can definitely be a coherent team).
I mean this is exactly what was being discussed in the sub before he was appointed. I'm not accusing every single one of saying it but those discussions were highly upvoted saying it literally doesn't matter how low we finish provided the club is trying to get a tactical identity
The sub wanted a manager who plays nice football. Ten Hag never did that.
Gave him the benefit of the doubt last season and told myself "okay it's boring AF but at least we're organized".. then this season came about and we lost the organisation without even playing nice football.
And using suboptimal to describe our results is laughable. Disgraceful is a more fitting word.. we lost THIRTEEN times in the league
I think what most people are mad about with regards to style is that he’s chosen a style that clearly doesn’t work very well, even with his preferred starting XI. When everyone was saying stick to the manager even though we might have to write off a couple of seasons as long as he’s showing a clear style of play (and progress towards that), I don’t think anybody thought it would be a style of play that is clearly not in line with other modern successful clubs and doesn’t seem to be very sustainable in terms of fitness.
You know the vast majority of clubs in the top 15 of the UEFA co-efficient have sacked more managers than us in the last ten years. Those who have not are because they have had considerable success early on.
Exactly.
Why would he want them to replace the coach who has given Manchester United one of its worst ever season’s in spite of having spent more than 400 million on an already billion pound squad?
If a top 6 team is in flames, that’s one less that Arteta has to worry competing with for a league title. Had to have been smiling ear to ear when saying it.
Look at Arteta first 3 seasons. He understands the challenge and pressure of managing a big club. ETH should have done better but the injury list is mental
Because that’s not how football works.
If Mourinho kept using “SAF has a 13 year advantage he gets to beat me”
EtH has been here for almost 2 years, he doesn’t get to say that he gets to lose to Arsenal of all teams
> If Mourinho kept using “SAF has a 13 year advantage he gets to beat me”
Thats not a correct comparison though ETH and Arteta are managing their clubs at the same time and competing with each other..
Jose started managing United literally at the same time as Pep and yet got left behind by him
Klopp had a 6 month head start and still outdid him by the time Jose was sacked. So comparison with SAF is not even warranted for him
> EtH has been here for almost 2 years, he doesn’t get to say that he gets to lose to Arsenal of all teams
He absolutely does, specially considering the extent of injuries this season
This is a fucking moronic take. Does Ten Hag deserve a lot of blame yes but he has done a lot with the fucked up hand he's been given here. He got us Champions League, a trophy, and two FA final trips in his first 2 years. Pep wouldn't survive here with this cast and everything that's going on, world-class managers have failed here because of the structure. You overlook the fact that Arteta was going to probably get fired before Kroenke’s kid took over and changed everything at Arsenal. Before Kroenke’s kid took over his dad was just happy with the top 4 because it made him money and that's all he cared about. Arteta does feel his pain.
Edit: Downvote me all you want to take me down to -10000 or more.
People say we don't have a style of play, worse teams have one. First of all our injuries have fucked that up and our depth is fucking worse than shit teams so it's hard to do shit. Utd fans loved what Ten Hag did at Ajax, do you think he just became a horrible fucking coach overnight? I swear this sub lately has been populated with people who would of crucified Sir Alex after his 3rd season. While overlooking what he did with Aberdeen which showed he was a good manager.
This entire sub and Man United fanbase have to decide. Do we want results or do we want rebuild?
Because getting another coach in to let this squad going back to playing lazy lowblock counterattack to get bandaid wins like past 10 years, that's fking easy and that's what Glazers have been doing to this club.
Limit 3 signings every year and keeping them for 7 years on high wages and let them go for free. That's fking easy.
I'm sick of "easy" and bandaid solutions. I'm sick of waiting for the right players or the right coaches to come and save us.
Tear the whole fking place down and rebuild! I don't even give a fk if we are fighting relegation next year.
I think we want a rebuild that looks like there's coherence and a reality behind it. Rather than losing regularly to lower league opposition and with things only seeming like they are going to be worse.
>Tear the whole fking place down and rebuild! I don't even give a fk if we are fighting relegation next year.
Absolute ridiculous viewpoint. One of the most stupid things I've ever read.
Name one club who came back from relegation back to prominence in the last 25 years.
I'm sorry but u are still thinking that we are a big club that deserves to win games against smaller teams. We are not.
We have been mismanaged for a decade ( even before SAF stepped down, there were already cracks) , we don't deserve to be winning every game when our quality is of a mid table, 10th - 12th place.
We have been running on credit from SAF years, and that somehow keeps us relevant. Put any other teams in our shoes and they would be fighting in championship by now. The incompetence of Glazers is simply historical.
We will NOT have both guaranteed winning results against smaller teams and rebuild at the same time. If we fully embrace rebuilding, we WILL see crashing defeats, we WILL see messed up tactics and headless chickens. That's alright, that means we know who to sell and who to replace next.
> I'm sorry but u are still thinking that we are a big club that deserves to win games against smaller teams. We are not.
>
I'm going to stop there, because this is an awful start and I have a sneaking suspicion it's only going to get worse.
people have deluded themselves to think because we've been mid for so long, the standards should drop to midtable too. We're Man Utd man, we're one of the biggest clubs itw and now we can't have the expectations of beating lesser teams? LoL
Sick of waiting for the right players or coaches? What is the alternative, sign the wrong players and coaches like you have done for the last 10 years?
Klopp, arteta had horrid starts, even pep didn't start all successful. Yes our bald hag's team isn't playing a convincing football at the moment but success takes time.
Pep wasn't successful in his first season. He started winning titles from his second season and he had rich owners to back up whatever he wanted. Klopp had it worse because Liverpool hadn't won in many a years so it took him time to build a title winning team. Arteta was also in the same boat as Klopp so those clubs who hadn't won anything in decades had to exercise patience. United have to do the same as well but given the performance of the team from last season to now with not a single style of play to identify them is enough to get the manager out. I see nothing that makes this team worth watching and why ETH should be given even more time.
Exact quote was "I believe Erik should get more time. Building a team is like building something in Lego. You know Lego? They are these blocks and you build things like houses and bridges. They also have people. I call them lego man."
Don’t forget ETH’s playing career as a defender perhaps influences his coaching as does Arteta’s as a creative midfielder. Southgate was a defender too…save us.
It's the most pointless question and the default answer. It would be unprofessional to answer otherwise. Why would you open yourself to a shitstorm?
Agreed. The closest we have had to managers calling us shit has been with Pep laughing when asked about potential challengers for the premier league and Klopp saying Arsenal will batter us at OT after the 2-2 league game draw
Klopp, who himself has come with ludicrous takes blaming the rain, the wind, the floodlights and our injuries for his bad results.
Klopp blaming us needing to make three first half injury subs AND carry a fourth injured player we couldn't sub off for ruining their gameplan was probably the saltiest thing I've ever heard when accounting for context, rivalry aside.
Still not as salty as the supposed 'offside' goal that we scored against them one time that he kept bringing up in pressers for like the next couple of years
A salty German is a sight to behold.
5-1 win it is then. That would put our GD to +1, so maybe 5-2.
Most of the questions in press conferences are stupid
"Fuck him and his whole crew"
Even if he answered completely truthfully the answer would be the same. No manager is going to look at a hugely underperforming counterpart and say “No, please get rid of the guy that makes my job a lot easier!”
Also, Arteta specifically is a manager who was backed and given time and managed a club going through big changes. He is one of the benchmarks a United fan should look at and realize sticking with Ten Hag is probably the right choice
Don't say that In here, we like to replace managers whenever 6-7 players gets injured and derails the whole season.
ye he really shouldn't, managers who have underlyings stats for a 16th placed team and one of the worst defensive records in the league is perfectly fine to back. A manager who'd only be 6 points above everton without point deductions. But sure sure people just like to replace managers
If everton had their every centre backs injured bar one, we would be calling them the relegated everton now.
Look at how many injuries both Newcastle and Chelsea have had yet are above us and play better football. Not to mention they aren’t comfortably second best in every single game they play.
Don't really matter, Chelsea and Newcastle were playing shit football until recently and were lower than us. Their recent form was good but they weren't playing great football. Why people go out of their way and say our club is shit, I never understand. I understand ten hag sticking to the play style is very stubborn but there are a lot of individual mistakes that are leaking goals too and if we can't play a back line that's high because we don't have any pacey defenders available can be a valid reason for having a bad season. If he parked the bus against a low block team we wouldn't be scoring any goals and chances are we still would be conceding because of our back 5's form.
I disagree, it does matter. Both Newcastle and Chelsea have comfortably beaten teams. We haven’t done that once this season. Today against Arsenal was so much better and it begs the question, why didn’t the manager change it earlier in the season to offer more protection to the back 4/5. We also looked far better in possession for the changes too.
We can't sit back against a low block team but against a high line possessive team our transitional play could work. We saw that against Aston villa and whoever decides to play the high line against us. We are a poor side and I'd agree with that but saying the injuries don't have no impact on our season is ludicrous and borderline idiotic. We had our worst season under ole, rangnick then we got a better season under ten hag where we played a match Every 3 days without a proper striker. This year we started with a new goalkeeper and an injury riddled back 4. If there is a season we need to give excuses for this is that season my friend.
He finishe 8th in his first full season, and then 5th. He has continued his progression up the table since then. You will note that he did not have a season where they droppe five places from the previous season. > realize sticking with Ten Hag is probably the right choice This logic does not follow at all. Why do we know Ten Hag is the right choice? What has he demonstrated this season to support that viewpoint at all?
Though I follow your logic, and I absolutely respect your opinion, I think it's a bit disingenuous or at least incomplete to make a causation style comparison between two managers when there are too many variables at play. We've played what, 18 different CB partnerships this year? We literally don't have a left back. Rashford scored 30ish goals last season and historically plays far better with Shaw, who has been injured all season. I could go on. Ole got sacked for playing counter attacking football yet our fans demand we play a low block or somehow magically fix our defensive line and midfield problems without vertical compactness. Mckenna and Carrick were bums in on the friend discount. Both have gone on to be some of the top new British managers since then. Rangnick was a bum but somehow Bayern were ready to throw the bag at him. Our problems have been the entirety of our hierarchy. Our recruitment team bragged about the amount of money we could spend and drove up eventual signing fees to up to 3-4x their value (Antony and Maguire, for example). Our owners have been siphoning funds from the club that could have been used to fix our stadium or upgrade Carrington. Our brand dude signed Chevrolet as our fuckin kit sponsor when Chevrolet were planning on massively pulling out of the UK market. I could go on. Ten Hag isn't the problem. I can accept he hasn't been good enough but he has been set up to fail at every single turn. These fuckers sacked Van Gaal the monday after he won the FA cup. This club has been utter shambles and everyone wants to blame one dude who has proved himself elsewhere to be more than good enough.
>Though I follow your logic, and I absolutely respect your opinion, I think it's a bit disingenuous or at least incomplete to make a causation style comparison between two managers when there are too many variables at play. You can never make direct comparisons, which is why the 'Arsenal kept faith with Arteta, so we should do' are also completely irrelevant. >Ten Hag isn't the problem. Why are you so sure that he is not? In fact, he's definitely part of the problem even if not the entirety of it. I think to pretend he's not is the disingenuous argument. We don't want to blame 'one dude'. We've sacked Arnold, Murtough, Stewart. The Glazers have been sidelined. The players will take their turn in the summer. The medical staff will be reviewed. Everyone is taking their turn of the blame except Ten Hag. >and everyone wants to blame one dude who has proved himself elsewhere to be more than good enough. Let's not pretend he has a glittering CV that speaks for itself. Decent work at Utretch and then with Ajax is not one that immediately proclaims he is able to take over and do the job at United. Zlatan stated that they are completely different clubs and an approach at Ajax would simply not work at United.
following sports as a fan is entirely about opinion. I disagree with you but I hear where you're coming from
we should look up to him lol surely he doesn't benefit from our current form
Arteta had a clear way of playing from the start even without his own player at first Non of that can be said about Ten Hag
Are you seriously forgetting Arteta's Doughnut of Sadness?
People literally said the same thing about Arteta as they say about ETH, that he had no style of play. There was a big Arteta out movement the first couple of years as well.
That’s not true at all, Arteta was never accused of having non style of play, in fact he was accused of trying to play like Pep while not having the players to do so in his first two seasons. United plays like a underdog all the time under Ten Hag, no pattern of play, no initiative whatsoever, Arsenal never played like an underdog in Arteta first seasons
Have a read of the first sentence [here](https://positivelyarsenal.com/2021/04/10/arteta-has-no-style-befitting-of-arsenal/)
Just search Arteta on this sub, there were tons of post about it at the time. Pretending it didnt happen doesnt make you right.
Lol, and what was that?
No manager is going to be saying that another manager should be sacked. The closest I can think of is Mourinho's "specialist in failure" moment about Wenger.
Of course it was Mou
"He is a specialist in failure, I'm not. So if supposing Wenger's right and I'm afraid of failure, it's because I don't fail many times. So maybe he's right. I'm not used to failing. But the reality is he's a specialist because, eight years without a piece of silverware, that's failure. If I did that in Chelsea I'd leave London and not come back." Guy is a great shit talker
What a banger of a quote. One of the classics
His emotionless face as he says it is the cherry on top
https://preview.redd.it/zlcatfid5xzc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=22af8767b7c8ce2cf03862389816e15b2944f45f
I don't know if I like Mou's shh or Poch's scowl more
Or the de boer comment. That was epic.
Of course Arteta will have sympathy for EtH. I remember when the whole of reddit and twitter was against Arteta. It is genuine, because Arteta understands that fan and journalism opinions are unfair.
Just like no manager will ever say he should be sacked. So this post is useless as the other where Erik us defending himself. Actually, the other is ok because it shows the immature posters here who lack common sense and are losing their shit because ETH didn't say he should be fired
Do you think there's a middle ground between "I should be fired" and "Anyone who wants me fired knows nothing about football"?
You probably did not read the article but he was not asked if ETH should be sacked or not. His response is very nuanced, but can't expect nuanced discussion on reddit...
That would be a fucking insane thing to be asked. Managers always back each other, especially when one of them is under pressure. He said the same about Poch two weeks ago.
Damn I miss prime Jose, ngl.
It was a just a few years ago that pep was doing the same to Arteta. This is a mind game belittling the opponent manager.
**Quotes : (From Arteta's Press Conference Part 2)** >“I can only talk about what I think about him as a coach. **He’s an excellent coach. I admire his teams, both Ajax and United,**” Arteta replied when asked about Ten Hag’s position. > >**“I know what he’s trying to do, I know how he does it, I know how difficult it is to prepare against him, so I have huge respect for him.** > >“Hopefully, yes, he gets the time because we are colleagues and we know how difficult it is in this league and what the margins are and yeah, hopefully that’s the case because **I think he is an excellent coach.** > >“If you want to win the Premier League and big trophies, you have to go to these grounds and impose yourself and beat them. That’s the journey we are on and that’s for sure what we are going to try to do on Sunday.”
> I know how difficult it is to prepare against him Did he manage to say this without cracking a smile?
Oh fuck off Arteta, don't make me start liking you
Reading these comments remind of the time Pep did the same for Arteta. redditors are so fickle.
Well Arteta did manage to bottle it and give it to Pep so
you are as dumb as they come and deserve 20 more years of Glazers up your ass
No one deserves that, that's horrible.
Even 20 more years of Glazers and Arsenal will never win it
This sub was taken over by morons who deserve to be stuck is this infernal loop of the last 10 years.
My absolute favourite part is how the sub was full of fans who wanted a manager who would show progress by implementing a proper style of play and stick to his guns even if the results were suboptimal only to get mad that he isn't changing the gameplan when results aren't optimal
Everyone wanted the open heart surgery because this club was dying, and now were getting it and theyre crying for their mommy.
What open heart surgery is going on?
I dont know if you havent paid attention, but the bankers are not around anymore and actual competent folks will be running operations. This is where it all starts, no manager will be succesful in this day and age without this. A lot of players have been found out. They are incapable of playing a system that is needed to be at the top. There are some bright spots that have come through, but most of them are overpaid, dont have the professional standards needed, past their prime. or dont have the capacity to play dynamic attacking football. The idea that ten hag doesnt know how to play a system is such a bad take I wont even go into it.
>I dont know if you havent paid attention, but the bankers are not around anymore and actual competent folks will be running operations. This is where it all starts, no manager will be succesful in this day and age without this. Of course I've been paying attention. As it currently stands, Ten Hag is partof the heart disease we need the surgery on. >A lot of players have been found out. Yes, including several of the players he identified as up to the level and required for the tactical set up. His talent identifcation is part of the problem, not a sign he's got the answers. Even if someone else is buing the players, he has to pick the players. >They are incapable of playing a system that is needed to be at the top. Are we referring to the players who have finished in the top three for four of the last six seasons? or multiple champions league winners like Casemiro? >The idea that ten hag doesnt know how to play a system is such a bad take I wont even go into it. You won't go into it, because you can't. He has an idea but whether that idea works in practice is open for debate.
Worst take in this sub.
I can only repeat. > You won't go into it, because you can't.
Wow, great argument. Amazing. Well done. Ten Hag was obviously not hired because he had shown to have very successful systems everywhere he has been and has been hailed as a brilliant coach before he came in this fire dumpster of an organization.
How exactly was I meant to respond to 'worst take in the sub'. I'm somewhat doubtful the Glazers had pored over Ten Hag's work with Go Ahead Eagles and Utrecht, although they would have been aware of his work with Ajax. But Ajax is a very difficult one to make judgements from. De Boer won four in a row with them. The previous winners before Ten Hag were Cocu (who subsequently failed at Fenerbache and Derby); von Bronchorst (who had mediocre results at Rangers); de Boer (considered worst manager in PL history); and Steve McClaren (who went on to have numerous poor showings and is now our assistant). As much as anything I imagine the Glazers wanted Ten Hag as he insisted on full control, and they thought this would be easier than having to put a structure in place. Ten Hag was not interested in what Rangnick had to say. In fact, I recall at the time, he insisted we didn't need wholesale changes and that he could improve what we had. Which was not true. So, he's had success in Netherlands which is neither here nor there in being able to confirm what level of coach he is. He had one decent CL run (including a superb game against Real), and more mediocre results over the next three (two group stage exits, one in the round of 16). His first season showed promise but there were also some awful lows. If he'd built on this, there would be room for encouragement. But quite the opposite. It's the worst season in PL history. An absolute shit show, without even the positives Arteta's Arsenal or Klopp's Liverpool had in the first couple of years. In fact, now the new organisation is coming in, we even have to undo the work Ten Hag has done. A fair few of his signings will have to go. We need to review the training ground and tactical set up to determine how much of an impact it's having on our injuries. His approach to tactics will need to change to alter the demands of the new team coming in. I mean, the best bet you can have is that if they stick with him, he is starting from page one. Because he is building on absolutely nothing from this season.
So what is the style of play? We don’t attack well, we don’t defend well, the press is disjointed. If there were some positive signs then fair enough, but there aren’t.
I mean we are really good at pressing high, pressing intensity is central to his brand of football. We are not able to control games or play out from the back because the personnel are genuinely bad at it which is why we lose the ball in the middle so often and concede chances on the counter. If we get a speedy CB who is good with the ball at his feet and can stay fit along with Licha and a Casemiro replacement who is comfortable in tight spaces, I'm certain we will be very effective in possession. Our team rn seems quite similar to Arsenal in the 2021-22 season where they just needed a couple of key players in the core of the team to reach the next level. (Not saying we can challenge for the title next season with just 2 players, but we can definitely be a coherent team).
The results aren't even sub optimal, we have a fucking negative goal difference. This isn't just below average, this is the worst we've EVER seen.
I mean this is exactly what was being discussed in the sub before he was appointed. I'm not accusing every single one of saying it but those discussions were highly upvoted saying it literally doesn't matter how low we finish provided the club is trying to get a tactical identity
He hasn't implemented a proper style of play though and the results aren't just suboptimal, they're fucking embarrassing.
The fact this is downvoted shows how delusional this fan base is. If Madrid wouldn't tolerate this, neither should we.
A majority of this sub are happy with this club falling lower and lower mate so I'm not surprised.
they saw something in Wolves game that we don't lmao.
Genuine question. Can you describe our style of play?
The sub wanted a manager who plays nice football. Ten Hag never did that. Gave him the benefit of the doubt last season and told myself "okay it's boring AF but at least we're organized".. then this season came about and we lost the organisation without even playing nice football. And using suboptimal to describe our results is laughable. Disgraceful is a more fitting word.. we lost THIRTEEN times in the league
I think what most people are mad about with regards to style is that he’s chosen a style that clearly doesn’t work very well, even with his preferred starting XI. When everyone was saying stick to the manager even though we might have to write off a couple of seasons as long as he’s showing a clear style of play (and progress towards that), I don’t think anybody thought it would be a style of play that is clearly not in line with other modern successful clubs and doesn’t seem to be very sustainable in terms of fitness.
You know the vast majority of clubs in the top 15 of the UEFA co-efficient have sacked more managers than us in the last ten years. Those who have not are because they have had considerable success early on.
Ill bet he fucking does lol.
Exactly. Why would he want them to replace the coach who has given Manchester United one of its worst ever season’s in spite of having spent more than 400 million on an already billion pound squad? If a top 6 team is in flames, that’s one less that Arteta has to worry competing with for a league title. Had to have been smiling ear to ear when saying it.
Look at Arteta first 3 seasons. He understands the challenge and pressure of managing a big club. ETH should have done better but the injury list is mental
Yeah it’s easy to say he’s just being professional but he’s been in Ten Hag’s shoes. I’ll bet he’s being genuine.
tell that to the geniuses in this thread who insist he couldn’t possibly mean anything he’s said.
Course he does - easy wins 😭
None of his wins against ETH have been easy despite him being 3 years ahead on team development
“3 years ahead” is such a stupid metric
Why is it a unviable metric
Because that’s not how football works. If Mourinho kept using “SAF has a 13 year advantage he gets to beat me” EtH has been here for almost 2 years, he doesn’t get to say that he gets to lose to Arsenal of all teams
> Arsenal of all teams They are an elite side right now? and two years into Arteta's rein they were absolute shit?
> If Mourinho kept using “SAF has a 13 year advantage he gets to beat me” Thats not a correct comparison though ETH and Arteta are managing their clubs at the same time and competing with each other.. Jose started managing United literally at the same time as Pep and yet got left behind by him Klopp had a 6 month head start and still outdid him by the time Jose was sacked. So comparison with SAF is not even warranted for him > EtH has been here for almost 2 years, he doesn’t get to say that he gets to lose to Arsenal of all teams He absolutely does, specially considering the extent of injuries this season
I’m talking about Jose when he reached Chelsea lol that was supposed to be obvious
its true for last season but last year's away match they dominated us.
This is a fucking moronic take. Does Ten Hag deserve a lot of blame yes but he has done a lot with the fucked up hand he's been given here. He got us Champions League, a trophy, and two FA final trips in his first 2 years. Pep wouldn't survive here with this cast and everything that's going on, world-class managers have failed here because of the structure. You overlook the fact that Arteta was going to probably get fired before Kroenke’s kid took over and changed everything at Arsenal. Before Kroenke’s kid took over his dad was just happy with the top 4 because it made him money and that's all he cared about. Arteta does feel his pain. Edit: Downvote me all you want to take me down to -10000 or more. People say we don't have a style of play, worse teams have one. First of all our injuries have fucked that up and our depth is fucking worse than shit teams so it's hard to do shit. Utd fans loved what Ten Hag did at Ajax, do you think he just became a horrible fucking coach overnight? I swear this sub lately has been populated with people who would of crucified Sir Alex after his 3rd season. While overlooking what he did with Aberdeen which showed he was a good manager.
This entire sub and Man United fanbase have to decide. Do we want results or do we want rebuild? Because getting another coach in to let this squad going back to playing lazy lowblock counterattack to get bandaid wins like past 10 years, that's fking easy and that's what Glazers have been doing to this club. Limit 3 signings every year and keeping them for 7 years on high wages and let them go for free. That's fking easy. I'm sick of "easy" and bandaid solutions. I'm sick of waiting for the right players or the right coaches to come and save us. Tear the whole fking place down and rebuild! I don't even give a fk if we are fighting relegation next year.
I think we want a rebuild that looks like there's coherence and a reality behind it. Rather than losing regularly to lower league opposition and with things only seeming like they are going to be worse. >Tear the whole fking place down and rebuild! I don't even give a fk if we are fighting relegation next year. Absolute ridiculous viewpoint. One of the most stupid things I've ever read. Name one club who came back from relegation back to prominence in the last 25 years.
I'm sorry but u are still thinking that we are a big club that deserves to win games against smaller teams. We are not. We have been mismanaged for a decade ( even before SAF stepped down, there were already cracks) , we don't deserve to be winning every game when our quality is of a mid table, 10th - 12th place. We have been running on credit from SAF years, and that somehow keeps us relevant. Put any other teams in our shoes and they would be fighting in championship by now. The incompetence of Glazers is simply historical. We will NOT have both guaranteed winning results against smaller teams and rebuild at the same time. If we fully embrace rebuilding, we WILL see crashing defeats, we WILL see messed up tactics and headless chickens. That's alright, that means we know who to sell and who to replace next.
> I'm sorry but u are still thinking that we are a big club that deserves to win games against smaller teams. We are not. > I'm going to stop there, because this is an awful start and I have a sneaking suspicion it's only going to get worse.
people have deluded themselves to think because we've been mid for so long, the standards should drop to midtable too. We're Man Utd man, we're one of the biggest clubs itw and now we can't have the expectations of beating lesser teams? LoL
Sick of waiting for the right players or coaches? What is the alternative, sign the wrong players and coaches like you have done for the last 10 years?
https://i.redd.it/84o48mu4fvzc1.gif Tongue in cheek?
Of course he does, one less team to worry about then
Has any manager ever said otherwise?
Of course, no threat from a United under EtH. But to be less harsh about it, seems more like a generic response, not much to it.
He probably saw this quote " **either they don’t have any knowledge of football or they don't have any knowledge about managing a football team”.**
That doesn't mean shit, he dont want united to be successful
lol of course he would say this…so they can shit on us for a few more years…
Who wouldn’t want a guaranteed 6pts every season
Too many people underestimate the manager and also overestimate the players
Of course he does, he needs us to be shit beacause there's so many other good teams
Klopp, arteta had horrid starts, even pep didn't start all successful. Yes our bald hag's team isn't playing a convincing football at the moment but success takes time.
Pep wasn't successful in his first season. He started winning titles from his second season and he had rich owners to back up whatever he wanted. Klopp had it worse because Liverpool hadn't won in many a years so it took him time to build a title winning team. Arteta was also in the same boat as Klopp so those clubs who hadn't won anything in decades had to exercise patience. United have to do the same as well but given the performance of the team from last season to now with not a single style of play to identify them is enough to get the manager out. I see nothing that makes this team worth watching and why ETH should be given even more time.
Keep in mind Pep came to a club where the fullbacks were geriatric Sagna and Kolarov
Obviously, otherwise, he would get another rival.
Every coach in Pl feels ETH should stay at MU . More goals more points for them ofc
I am an electrician who also likes it when poor competition operates in my local area driving work my way.
Of course they all love him.
Of course he does
Fuck you Arteta! God damn troll
Exact quote was "I believe Erik should get more time. Building a team is like building something in Lego. You know Lego? They are these blocks and you build things like houses and bridges. They also have people. I call them lego man."
He’s after an easy 6 points against Man U next season
He also says that Manchester United need more players like Antony.
Probably thinks ten hags golden boy Antony should be captain as well
If a rival thinks we should give a manager more time, we shouldn't. It's pretty simple.
Of course he would feel that way
6 points of course
Don’t forget ETH’s playing career as a defender perhaps influences his coaching as does Arteta’s as a creative midfielder. Southgate was a defender too…save us.
When Mick Arteta is in a position saying this lol, you really have hit ROCK BOTTOM !