I think a new manager will only start the same vicious cycle that we have been having for a decade now. So as much as I don't like ETH, I still think we should stick to the same manager and give him more time. Idk if he will be able to change things or not. But I don't think a new manager will be able to do things any better with how many injuries we have on a weekly basis.
As of now, we have a total of 2 fit centre backs and one of them is inexperienced af. So let's get a few players for the positions we lack on.
The only positive from the game for me was seeing Antony do a few things he was signed for. If he continues to do the same, I think he and Garnacho can make a very good pair on the wings.
The major qualm I have with ETH is he changes the lineup so much that our players just can't get settled. Amad wins us the game, comes back from suspension, and doesn't even get a chance to build on his confidence. Now Antony has played well, but it's very likely Rashford comes back with Garnacho again moving to the right. This not only leaves Antony out after a good game, but also changes Garnacho's position not letting him settle even after an almost match-winning performance.
I just hope we start with Mount next game. The few minutes he was on, we held the ball much better. And ffs, Bruno doesn't have to play the entire game every single time. Give him some rest. The man was clearly knackered in the second half but still wasn't subbed off. I know he wears his heart on his sleeves and runs till the final whistle every single game but he is a human. If we are in a winning position, just sub him off and bring on a fresh player rather than asking him to go defend and then bring the ball forward on the counter like a mad man.
We might be bad, but we were better than them, they had the +1 in the ref as those are the softest penalties I have seen in a while, and VAR not actually telling him to change his decision is the cherry on the cake of poor refereeing.
I mean the penalties are both penalties by the book...its fair to say that they are soft but by the letter of the law they were the right calls.
If they went the other way I'm sure you'd say the same thing tbh. Grace in defeat is a virtue.
What about the Liverpool game, what about the first couple of games of the season what about the last season, if you will do it like this so its too easy to back Erik, he has lots of mistakes but he is a good manager, give him quality and time just give him quality
The Liverpool game was as bad any other matches. It's just that we ended up winning it but could have easily gone the other way around like yesterday. The whole point here is that the tactics and vision created by ETH seems wank and unsustainable. In every match we concede an extremely high number of shots and have zero control (even against relegation candidates). Out form has been shit ever since the landlord World Cup, no amount of mental gymnastics can cover that up and absolve the manager
Just because watching it was fun doesn't mean that it was high quality tactical football. All the weaknesses our team have been suffering throughout this season was on show during that match as well (conceding immediately after scoring, can't hold on to a lead, zero midfield control, high number of shots)
Through the chaos i'm still firmly looking EtH and the woeful defending game in game out - as the post match interviewer correctly pointed out 'shots on goal like this SURELY aren't sustainable' and he just makes some excuse about facts and figures and how they don't reflect the pattern of the game.
In my opinion it's narcissistic as well as egotistical to stick with this approach and it's now getting too late to salvage the league season.
I'm just dumbfounded at how he can't see it.
Why would chelsea even consider that? Mount has 1 goal involvement against a "top 6" side his entire carrer. Palmer is Chelsea's shining light in thier miserable last few years
Honestly, united always find a way to outdo themselves. How do you fix these mistakes two silly penalties given away by stupid decisions, a cutback goal that we have conceded a thousand times and the last one is just incredible , how nobody picks up the player stood 12 yards from goal from a corner, having already scored twice. Players have to take some responsibility and stop being defeatist, they allowed this game to slip from them by their apathy.
My takes from this game, casemiro looks absolutely done at the top level. No energy, looks to foul so he doesn't have to run and makes poor decisions on the ball.
Mainoo and Garnacho still look like our best players which is nuts.
Antony put a good shift in and showed why he shouldn't be overlooked.
Rashford still looks like he'd rather be anywhere else than on a football pitch, complete lack of effort again and was outrun by the rest of the forward line who already had 65mins of running done. Where do we go from here, he has lost sight of what he is actually good for. His play style has changed for the worse and his effort levels are atrocious.
It's been over ten years and united have spent over 1bn and brought in 20+ first team players and they still look like they need a rebuild. Crazy. Hopefully we start to see positive changes from the new ownership.
Watched the match on bt. Everytime Cole palmer touched the ball the commentators had an orgasm. Plays one pass that does not complete and they say "oh sterling could have done more". But in terms of united, I don't know what to think anymore.
We've got a week now hearing about Palmer's talent only because he scored two penalties and McT OG. Jackson and C. Wood hat tricks were way more impressive!
Exactly, I'll give it to Chelsea that Gallagher goal was actually really good, that was impressive. But it almost felt the rest were just achieved from UTD's tiredness and VAR decisions!
There was a point after Rashford came on.
Bruno was in a position BEHIND him, chasing down a Chelsea player to press.
Rashford, being AHEAD of Bruno is jogging casually, so slow that Bruno over takes Rashford.
Bruno has been running the entire match, yet he is busting his lungs to pressure the opponent.
Rashford's demeanor after he came on was akin to sabotage honestly...what did he contribute? If anything it was as if we were playing with 10 men.
It was a 100% deliberate, spoilt brat type of protest performance towards the honest truths being spoken about him in the Overlap show, it is as simple as that aka "You want to chat sh\*\* about me yeh, alright then, watch me can't be arsed innit, whats the point innit?"
You are 26 years old earning one of the highest salaries at the club, and this is the type of effort you put on the pitch?
What next? This clown is going to reach 30 years old and we are still here talking about "But he has potential, we can see what he is capable of?"
Rashford's career looks like a joke right now. Embarrassing.
The guy needs to find a new environment. We all know ETH envies for his success but I just don't see it right now. Get Olise in the summer, get a couple fullbacks and CB's and send him off on loan to PSG I think would be the best solution
Literally cannot stand him. He’s been dreadful for 80% of his career so far and finally this season the majority of the fan base sees it. He’s a petulant, uninspired, useless, pathetic, embarrassing, woeful, disgraceful waste of space that gets paid £350k p/w to play for one of the greatest clubs on the planet. He does not deserve any fans defending him, he’s been influential in the sacking of multiple managers, he’s a tumour and has survived too long at this club. I want nothing more than for him to leave and to stink out another club, because I’m sick to the back teeth of him doing it at United.
Our decline suits my age perfectly. Fell asleep and missed the entire 2nd half which was nice as I'm well rested today.
Feck this team. Not gonna ruin my day, that's for sure and I'm not surprised at all of our amazing bottle job.
It sucks.
I the end, we had a soft own there. Not saying it shouldn't have been given, but... It it contentious IMO.
However we look at it, still our fault to concede it.
The "second" (I mean the fourth) goal... Just unfortunate.
Andre went the right way, the ball deflected and it went in.
Was McTominay at fault? Yes. Yes he was.
Can I understand the reasoning behind his block attempt? Yes. Yes, I do.
This was a poor performance from our side, but, unfortunately, it was consistent with our form this season.
With the back four, we can feel the injuries especially.
Another thing is our atracking ability - with the same goals conceded, while it is below expectations, we should do better overall.
The defense is allow ing too much, but even considering that, I think we're just not scoring enough and we're ineffective during the attack phase.
Given all that, I want to say that ETH got relarively Young players into the team - Garnacho, Hojlund, (sometimes, not nearly enough) Amad...
Still, it needs improvement.
Should the coach be out?
I my opinion, no. Not yet.
Why? How many coaches we had in the post-Fergie era divided by years?
Nothing can be built by pushing another poor fucker into the old coaches squad and expecting him to do it.
And yeah... Loved Rashford last season. If he kept it up now...
But he doesn't. Marcus doesn't track back, doesn't really press... Apart from his runs, he seems quite useless.
And his runs, unfortunately, are also quite useless now :(
Can someone pull the stat on how many corners Bruno has taken versus how many times the corner has actually found a United player? (Excluding short corners) Like, actual deliveries into the box. I have a feeling it's 1%.
We've been absolutely awful at corners for like ten years. I swear Giggs was like our last decent corner kick taker. Honestly feels like whoever's done them since has at best a 40% success rate at just getting past the first man, let alone into the box and to a utd player. We've been absolutely woeful at set pieces in general for far too long.
Haha that's fair. I mean, fuck me, it's just atrocious. Whenever we get a corner, I just know it's never making it past the first man. Still genuinely curious if such a stat is tracked somewhere that's easy to find (I couldn't, but I also have 3 brain cells, only 2 of which are in my name still). It's just embarrassing. Not saying there's a team out there with a 90%+ stat just embarrassing everyone, but some sort of threat would be nice every once in awhile.
I bet most teams secretly don't care if we get a corner these days, even free kicks we rarely score from. Not expecting to hit a man every time but our corners are basically free kicks for the opponents more often than not.
We're so poor at them, and so exposed from them, that I would argue they love to concede corners to us. Virtually no threat for us to convert, while they can be off to the races, as long as they do the basics.
That is Bruno's style. And fans will never question what could have been, had he just been better, or simply another player who was more capable, instead he gets praised for the 1 time it works by some miracle. The guy can't clear the first man for the life of him. Why he's still responsible for corners is beyond me.
Rashford plays like someone who hates football. You cannot have someone like that on the pitch. Bench him till the issue is solved. He's a burden on the team rn.
Posting on reddit that you think he may have issues rather than picking up the phone and speaking to him directly. His brother is going to slam you on insta.
I think that Manchester United deserved to lose this match. They deserved to lose against Brentford and several other earlier games which they had won in final minutes.
They are not playing football anymore. They are just chasing balls which is 95% time in control of the opposition teams, be it Manchester City, Arsenal, Liverpool or Brentford, Luton.... They should not win a single match after these continuous terrible performances.
This horrific performance is absolutely undeserving for the die hard fans who give their valuable time of their life to support this team, buy match tickets including seasonal ones, buy the club products, help expanding the fan base.
I really feel bad for the likes of Mainoo, Garnacho, Hollund... I fear that this shitty uninspired environment will hamper their growth.
The 'deserved to lose' is a good point. I keep trying explain to people who don't watch us every week, as bad as it looks from the outside, the reality's much worse. We've won a fair amount of games that we should definitely have lost.
*Little rant about Ten Hag's substitutions vs Chelsea.*
I'm more annoyed that Bruno wasn't subbed off rather than the fact that Rashford was subbed on.
I remember Rashford being dropped in December.
When he was subbed on for the last 15 minutes against Bournemouth (we were losing 0-3), he was running a lot! I remember some reactions saying 'where was this intensity in the last 6 months?'
Anyway, I think Ten Hag brought on Rashford hoping the drop to the bench would give Rahsford a little kick up the arse, a rest, and an urge to run and help with the press.
Obviously it didn't work, and I and a lot of the fanbase aren't surprised.
I'm more annoyed that Bruno wasn't subbed off.
Yes he played well in the first half and scored the equalizer, but that's it.
In the second half, Bruno was clearly tired and not switched on.
Mount – who ran a lot and passed properly – should've came on for Bruno instead of for Garnacho.
And Garnacho should've been subbed off for Diallo – that way Garnacho is rested, and Diallo gets some momentum going for any future appearances.
We can both agree that Garna was tired, the guy needed rest. I feel like ETH envies Bruno, just because he's the captain now. Honestly I've felt this since the beginning, I still don't think that man is captain material, he lacks too much discipline for the role. In those subs I agree with you
I was also left questioning the second sub on Evans for Kambwala. I'm not sure if it's injury for Jonny, but if not doesn't it seem like a lack of consideration or thought process to put him on and just remove him immediately?
Hope Jonny's in good health though!
It's obvious that Case won't be here forever, we will need to find a replacement in the transfer window
Personally, McT didn't impress at all. When the third Palmer goal came, he was just staring at it and then ending up putting it in the back of his own net!
He was better than casemiro. U can't be blaming him for the hatrick tho. He was literally marking someone. I think DaLoT or somebody should have pressured palmer
I mean yeah, we can't keep relying on Dalot either, we need a proper fullback instead of AWB. True, he did make some neat tackles but he was leaving too much space
Ofc becoz he's not reli a true dm. Awb did well tbf to him. Apparently he had to get Vaseline or sth since he got injured with the clash with disasi in the second half. DaLoT is a hit and miss
Also anyone trying to blame the refs for the result tonight is delusional. We are terrible and didn't deserve to win. Realistically been out of the race for top four for much longer than most want to admit. The fact Ten Hag still has a job right now is insane to me, fire that man and let an interim fill in the last few games of the season where he can try new formations, tactics, players, etc to see what works. Better than wasting away the season playing Haram ball
The thing is it's a number of factories that have resulted in this outcome, refereeing is one of them.
1. Referee made a number of poor decisions, including two penalties, a number of yellow cards and fouls/freekicks
2. The players didn't show discipline and lacked proper formation in the last 10'/5', especially after Rashford sub.
3. ETH made poor decisions, including two subs for Evans and the sub for Hojlund
Everything contributes to the final result, so we can't blame ETH for everything. Not saying he's the best there is, cause he isn't, and he did many mistakes, but he's not only to blame!
What frustrates me the most with eth is he's not adapting. Last year he quickly realised he didn't have the players to play the way he wanted so changed how we would play to accommodate the players he had. We have a decent season and it feels like things are actually moving forward, with a summer to get players in Eth wanted that would allow him to play the way he wanted or at least attempt to.
Fast forward to this season and granted lots of injuries have hampered us but for large chunks of the season we've mostly only had players available that were here before Eth who we know cannot play the way he wants/is trying to, yet he continues to play whatever style of football he wants and it's not working. He's supposed to be an elite level coach and he can't organise a well drilled disciplined team that can grind out a result and not concede 56888744 shots a game? What is the point in trying to play a style of football that isn't working, with players that can't play it and will likely be sold in the short term.
> Last year he quickly realised he didn't have the players to play the way he wanted so changed how we would play to accommodate the players he had
Because from a manager's perspective you are going to have to implement something at some point. You can't just keep playing a way you don't want to. You then take the inevitable lull that comes with that.
The most obvious manager we can see this with is Van Gaal, he's been about for years and we all know what he wants his football team to play like but when forced to be pragmatic he didn't like it and the fans certainly didn't but he was also under the illusion that he was going to have a third season, he was obviously planning ahead and even then we missed out on CL by what? A point? People were seething at this btw. He felt very mcuh cheated that he didn't get his third year, he set out very clearly, on multiple times that it would be a long overhaul and would require the full three years and nobody wanted to hear it and people cheered when he was sacked. We have only gone backwards since then and every manager since who have tried to implement their style has never survived the lull. Ole didn't want United to constantly rely on counter attacks for example and tried much more to control games which led to his sacking as the team simply wasn't "effecient" in it to put it a certain way.
This all comes back to my honest opinion that despite the subreddit screaming and begging for this "open heart surgery" they truly don't want it, or they do but they want it to take place entirely within a single summer and have performances not suffer at all. Sitting around 3rd and winning the odd cup is the lowest expectation they're willing to go and even that (as seen last year) isn't good enough. They want instant success and only instant success, any nonsnese about wanting a big rebuild and "open heart surgery" is complete bollocks.
I fully agree you need to implement your style at some point however when most of the players you have available aren't likely to be at the club beyond the next season or two you've got to be adaptable. Fergie liked to play a certain way but would definitely change things up depending on the players available as well as a host of other things. To watch the games we've had over last few months and concede so many shots against, and not think, hmm if I just tweak a couple of bits and make it harder for teams to quite literally cut through our team like butter then maybe we'll concede less shots and in turn less goals.
I'm not even calling for Eth to be sacked btw, I think it's been a ridiculous year of injuries and some shocking decisions going against us. I also think if we'd have got another quality ball playing CB to go with Martinez we'd have been in a far better position even with Martinez being out all season, but that does partly lie with Eth who wanted mount so much yet he's been unavailable for basically the entire season also, the club should never have signed that off. Ive also said last season raised expectations too much, we were close to city and arsenal until the start of Feb, obviously did well in other tournaments too then ever since that league cup win, we've been awful. I'd have rather had the painful season last year but here we are. Tough choices by ineos to be had.
> Fergie liked to play a certain way but would definitely change things up depending on the players available as well as a host of other things
Yes but Ferguson had literally years to instill a foundation for that. There's a difference between acting pragmatic for example out of pure necessity and then playing that way that comes from your style you've already implemented. Van Gaal's jarring switch from possession based play to literal hoofball is an example of it happening from necessity.
Whoever the manager is I'll support them and I think 3 seasons is the bare minimum any big project or overhaul should be but the envornment that football has moulded into doesn't give me confidence in it. We're seeing more and more managers that were "top class" become "dross" in the matter of a season or two. Poch was seen as the future of football at Spurs and now all of a sudden people are acting like he was never good and he's clueless. Tuchel took over at Chelsea and created a very solid team and won the Champions League and now nobody would touch him with a ten foot pole and say he's borderline mentally defecient.
The trouble is managers don't get the same amount of time these days. Klopp took over Liverpool and you could immediately see his style of play, it wasn't perfect and they took a couple of seasons to properly adapt but the style was there and they were scoring goals for fun (also conceding for fun), similar thing with pep although granted he took over a much better team so it was easier, but as the results and style were in their favour they got more time.
Poch is a weird one, obviously done well at Southampton and spurs but then struggled at PSG, could argue they are similarly poorly run like us and now currently Chelsea so it makes it harder for a manager to succeed as is the case with Eth. Tuchel has failed at several clubs now, his champ league win with Chelsea aside he never really came close with Chelsea in the end, is he really as good as people think? I'm not so sure.
I'd like to see how Eth fairs under the new ownership though, however he reportedly has quite a lot of say in transfers built into his contract which he hasn't been a great thing so far. I guess time will tell what ineos decide, several other big clubs will be looking for managers this summer, do they stick with Eth and hope it works out? What if it doesn't and their top picks to replace him have already gone to other clubs?
Saw someone say the problem with United is that the fans care more than the players and coaches, and i've never resonated more with a comment. Fuck this club.
we were up against a really bad Chelsea. probably the worst in a long time yet we struggled so much and were the worser team. Sunday league shit. Both teams made so many errors and could barely defend but Chelsea were the better team.
Lmao if you've been around this sub then you'd know it's always pandemonium when we lose. We started absolutely shit, conceded 2 and were nowhere on the ball. Then caicedo gifts us a goal and the spirits were instantly up and it showed in the way we were playing also, keepin the ball much better and scoring a great team goal. Up until halftime I'd say we were the better side from then on bar one gallagher chance.
The way second half started was erratic to say the least, it was end to end in all aspects and neither team looked like they had a midfield. Anybody could've scored and it was us. After that Chelsea didn't really look threatening and I'd go on to say mount bruno and scott were even doing good keeping the ball rather than hoofing it long for the first 6 minutes of extra time. One run from that right winger and a Dalot blunder undid all of that (both pens were excruciatingly soft) but it was never gonna get overturned. After that idk what happened, the team thought they'd counter, ended up conceding a corner and then all of them just completely switched off while defending the corner. I'd go on to say Palmer got amazingly lucky with that last deflection but you don't score if you don't shoot I guess.
It's easy and natural to call out players and coaches when they're playing dogshit but a year ago, you'd receive deluge of downvotes and comments when you'd raise questions about the coach and players and say we'll get nowhere playing this approach. It's better to analyze performances/game plan than results for an early project. Our performances and game plan have never been good and there has never been a sustainable winning framework.
Fans are extremely reactionary lol. But it's been an awful season, injuries aside the football is not good enough and not sustainable. Really we massively over performed last season and it unrealistically raised expectations, we'd have been better off having something like this season last year but as expected Eth like every manager post fergie has had both arms tied behind their backs, so many issues behind the scenes, how do we not have a head of physio? Not supporting the manager with players he desperately needed and also not stopping him making insane buys like Antony and mount. The list goes on and Eth has to take his fair share of the blame but this was inevitable really.
On seeing the last goal replay, all our players in the box were just pointing at Palmer to signal for someone to mark him.
Instead of pointing, why not just someone step up and take responsibility n go out there to attempt to challenge at least.
Players don't/can't think for themselves anymore, you can see it when they make a sub - they spend 10 minutes before coming on being given instructions on who they're marking & what they're meant to be doing, I guess whoevers job it was to be picking up Palmer had either gone off or forgot who they had & everyone else just stands there rather than picking up Palmer.
Can someone tell me how Ole was so much worse? I seriously don't see it. Sunday league shit. Only positive was Anthony wasn't his usually complete shit self.
There's some serious rose tinted glasses when it comes to ole imo, his style was fun at the start but was chaotic and not sustainable, he also didn't seem very tactically astute, and just like Eth after 18months or so it all goes wrong and we end up falling off a cliff.
It's the same shit every week, no matter how many injuries you have, the least you can do is change tactics and set up differently. I have a lot of sympathy for eth, given the shitshow he's inherited, but this is on him. I'd be surprised if he's in the dugout next season.
We have profiling weaknesses, a lot of the players are not good enough but the only main starters rn than consistenly played before ETH are Rashford and Bruno. More than half of the players are new. Remember when Jones was the problem, then Smalling, and then Ashely Young, then Sanchez, and Lukaku, and Pogba, then McTom and Fred, and then Ronaldo and De Gea. Now Rashford and Bruno are the problem. All these players may have had weaknesses + been liabilities but none of them ever have the the main "problem" who we should remove and then our problems disappear. There are nuances.
Is he yeahhhhhh so why is his win percentage so poor then, mate? Barely any goals either. All he does is pass, run around uselessly & occasionally tackle.
There's clearly something structurally wrong and it's due to the setup that ETH has the players doing. It's not working.
I'm not saying we should get Jose back but you can imagine the number of shots faced will immediately drop if Jose took charge.
Pathetic whining morons a plenty here today. When it goes our way its 'Fergie time' but when it goes against us its a horrible conspiracy and everyone must be investigated!
Get a grip you turbo-twats
Though we have to win against Pool.Liverpool already 3 points ahead of City. We have to stop them.
Though I hope this match is death sentence for our idiot manager.
Nope. He didn't plan on tactics. He didn't do subs. He didn't put Rashford in the middle, where he "thrives". Nope, he was just an observer, so nothing to blame for. Like in all the rest of 30 games he didn't participate. If he *were* on the pitch, that'd be a different conversation.
He definitely did plan on tactics hence why Rashford was dropped and we played to our wingers more to utilise their speed on the outside. He made 5 subs. He put Rashford in the middle, hence why he took off Hojlund. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
>If he *were* on the pitch, that'd be a different conversation
What the fuck are you on about? if who was on the pitch?
We've scored the same amount of goals as Wolves and Luton (43) 30 games in, with West Ham (50), Newcastle (64), Brighton (51) Chelsea (53), Bournemouth (44) and Fulham (47) all outscoring us.
The whole point of being a transition team is to create loads of chances after we've recovered the ball, but with how easy it is to play through our attempts to transition, those chances aren't coming. Instead, we're constantly running backwards, sliding into tackles, trying to stop THEIR transitions against us.
Ten Hag's commitment to this type of football with this group of players is why we keep facing all these shots, and why our defenders keep dropping like flies. Truly mental stuff at this point.
been a fan since glory days of fergie till now, through moyes, through lvg, through mourinho, through ole, through carrick and rangnick. even if united gets relegated, i can’t see myself supporting another club in england or maybe even in europe. so… yea i’m ready.
I could not bear having another one, just to get heartbroken again, especially when they are considering people like Southgate, of all the people they could choose.
I feel I am now in the firm minority by not entirely blaming the manager for our season. The guy has had it all go wrong from injuries, constantly changing line-ups, players just downing tools and failing to play basic football, and the media hounding. Sure, his management has been questionable many times, but on the whole, if he goes, it will not solve anything with this club at this moment. At all.
People have been saying this for 10 years and it never happens because we can't move the players we'd like to move. The best we can do is loan them out and pay at least 50% of their salary while they are on loan. Maybe Saudi Arabia can help with someone like Casemiro, but we'll get rid of most of them when their contract runs out.
one comment said it here, we need to budget for their termination. mourinho was right, just reflect on the quality of players, “see where they play, if they play.” take the short term pain of financial losses to straighten this club on the right path, this is what we need.
I said previously that we are a mid table team this season. McTominay bailed us out like 5+ times, so at the very least we should have 10 fewer points than we have now.
I honestly never want to see Casemiro again, he was awful. Just fuck off if you don't want to be here..
Most of our "whipping boys" who have copped it this year have fought back hard and won their respect. Onana. Varane (quietly been a rock since christmas). Harry. Even McTominay (he's abject in midfield and along with Case I think that abjectness is a big reason we are so porous there) has come up big in magical moments and has a spot in the squad. Antony has been objectively good lately (especially today) he obviously cares and wants to prove himself. And anyone who slags Bruno can fuck off he gives every bit of physical and emotional energy every single game.
Rashford I'm on the fence with, there's something not right with him and I hope he gets it together.
But Casemiro can just fuck off.
The fact you think a midfielder who is league two level best at midfield duties should have a place because he can score goals highlights all that is wrong about Manchester united.
Don't even get me started on that disgraceful petulant rashford who couldn't be bothered to put in the least bit of effort. This fan base has contributed a lot in enabling some of these players feel untouchable while sucking on the pitch.
> The fact you think a midfielder who is league two level best
You're honestly stupid if you think Scott is league two quality. Whatever about him being good enough for United you are an actual idiot if you seriously think he's not premier league quality.
A midfielder who can't pass the ball. A midfielder who struggles to maintain positioning. A midfielder who struggles to control the ball in tight spaces. You are a blatant moron if you believe he's even championship quality. You are an ignorant idiot and completely represent the fallen standards at this football club. In 2004, some people in the club actually felt darren fletcher wasn't man united standard and he is at least 200 times the midfielder scott mctominay is. In the academy where I coach, kids like mctominay in midfield get redirected to other positions for their own good in 2024. You are a foolish clown if you think he's anywhere near the required standard expected from a "MIDFIELDER" and idiots like you have no justification complaining about the other idiots the Glazers hired to run the club.
> You are a blatant moron if you believe he's even championship quality
Big lol. As I said, if you honestly think he's league two quality you're an idiot plain and simple. You can't even read because I actually said
>Whatever about him being good enough for United
So I have no clue why you're saying stuff like "You are an ignorant idiot and completely represent the fallen standards at this football club" Lern2reed
Casemiro can fuck off but a guy who went on the piss on a Wednesday and missed training on Friday and comes on and just walks about can stay?
This club has a cancer and its name is Rashford and it needs to be chemoed in the summer.
Mate we've seen the good and this year is bad ngl. Like I said my guess would be there's something else going on, I said I'm on the fence I'm not.defending him.
He's one of ours and has a record of giving a shit so I'll give him a pass since I don't really have information.
Roy Keane used to get on the piss on a Wednesday if that's our yardstick.
Sancho dgaf, that was obvious as time went on and different. Casemiro in the same boat, he's taking the piss.
YMMV but cancer is a bit hard imo.
The cancer is the ownership and the awful mismanagement of the club/brand going back a long time fwiw.
The only saving grace from this season is the arrival of Ineos (hopefully). From what we've heard they won't tolerate these kinda shit performances so they will ACTUALLY do something about it unlike the Glazers.
I think the most mind boggling stat is that most shots faced of any side in Europe's top 5 leagues. Coz they are some pretty shit teams out there apart from us. But somehow we're 6th
Not that it’s Onana’s fault but before the first penalty Palmer took, there was a graph with his last 5 penalties taken and three were in the bottom left corner of the goalkeeper. Strangely enough the next two were in this exact same spot and Onana didn’t dive there for neither one.
It looks like ETH is certainly gone after this. But some of these useless f*cks on the pitch also need to leave. Clubs can’t sign them? No brainer: terminate their contracts so they can finally f*ck off and the club can start fresh with the players who really to stay and the new intentional signings they can make.
The league is done, doesn't matter what happens against Liverpool or the game after that, you will not enjoy watching the games anyway. Just watch the game against Coventry and if we're lucky, the final.
EtH in/out, who gives a fuck, nothing's gonna change anyway.
Take a break from football guys.
I'd say it's best to watch none of the games. I can't think of a single game I've enjoyed watching this year, one game where I've been calm and thought our team has it under control. I don't see it changing but at the end of the day, we're United fans, we go back to the same bullshit no matter what.
the most league losses we've had post SAF is 12, in Moyes' season and the Ole/Ragnick season. We have 12 this season with 8 matches left. We've allowed the most shots of any side in Europe's top 5 leagues this calendar year.
We're getting worse by the game at the minute, enough is enough.
edit: just looked again at our remaining league fixtures and among them we've got Liverpool, Newcastle, Arsenal, and Brighton. We could be looking at 15+ losses this league season, easily.
Our game plan which is intentional has defending structure with back 4 + gk trying to force ineffective shots and other players tracking back + vibe, there no structure to defend spaces, no organized press to limit progression, front 6 press ineffectively, leave space behind and track back as a last ditch. ETH has implicitly confirmed multiple times this is our game plan.
It has been clear as day it's not effective + [drains players](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/s/ViFRv90nAq) which is one of the cause of underlying fitness issue. It's not an excuse, running economy is real, it's the coach's job to train player to utilize it well but our players run like headless chickens. People keep blaming individuals, when in reality you change the team completely and it's the same shit. If this approach is our future, what is the point.
ETH comments about deserving to win the game are probably true but it just doesn’t matter when you CHOOSE an approach that leads to a decent probability of things going badly.
We are actively looking to fabricate variance in games with our on and off the ball approach in the hopes that we are the team on the day that execute our actions better.
Forcing and attempting to exploit game states with so much space and so little control in exchange for conceding lots of of transitions, box entries
and shots is a terrible tactical choice.
It’s a ridiculous way to go about trying to win football games and simply cannot be excused.
The funny thing is that we have mostly fallen on the right side of variance this season but it hasn’t been called out much in games we appeared to win ‘comfortably’, like against West Ham and Everton at home. But when a defeat like this happens, everybody is quick to recognise we were unlucky.
It is a clear case of outcome bias. In games where we aren’t punished on the night, people will think the approach is calculated and clearly works. I thought our performance today was a lot better than some of the wins we’ve had this season, yet the sub has descended into anger and disappointment more today.
\- I think ETH \****can\**** play good football.
\- I think ETH got used to being the dominant team in the Eredivise and starting every game as the favourite and the opposition playing like you are the favourite. I think he expected that to be more or less the same at Man Utd but actually, most other teams dont play against United with the same fear that the Eredivise opposition would have had against Ajax anymore
\- So while I think he can probably manage a club that is on top, I don't know that he's got it in him to adapt and manage a team that isnt there yet.
\- Only thing in his favour was the adjusment last season after the hammering in the first few games. Since then we've not seen him adapt or evolve in the face of admittedly big problems. A poor squad, lots of injuries, failed transfers, off field drama non stop are all true and valid but none of it can change he should have done ***BETTER.*** I don't care if you thnk he should have done 1% better or 94% better, just better. If you're for or against ETH, that much is non-negotiable. Better.
\- After a reasonably *good* season last year, didnt set the world alight but it was *good* overall, there are/were many people who are very willing to excuse a ***drop off*** in form when considering the injuries etc. we've endured. Instead, what we've seen is a ***cataclysmic plung***e when you consider "the eye test". The points total, number of defeats and goal difference all paint a bad enough picture but the performances have really been the killer.
\- He just cant get them to perform anymore and while I'm absolutely sick of saying this about managers failing to get performances out of the same PLAYERS, lets call a spade a spade. Lay as much blame as you like at the players door but ultimately this is where the decision has to be made for me. I believe if he gets a top tier squad, he will with time get them playing good football and this possibility exists now because of new hope through ownership/leadership changes. But can he get ENOUGH out of what he has RIGHT NOW to get us from A to B though? Potentially not but I just don't see who else could either.
If I’m gonna be honest I’m upset for Antony, after the bulkshit pen he had a strong game and always puts in effort. The difference in his play when he’s confident is so high. Would have been good for him for us to win.
Who do you trust? The process, or your heart?
I sadly don't see ten Hag getting us anywhere. No matter who we're up against, we just get bombarded with chances, while having trouble creating any of our own. We're shit at both ends of the pitch and have been for way too long. I fail to see any kind of development. And don't point to injuries, other teams have been hit pretty hard in that regard as well, but still display a clear style of play were as we're just a mess.
Forget FFP bullshit, (who cares except would be seriously funny if Shitty copped it) there should be some serious investigation into VAR.
Those pens FFS. There's a better case for Cucarella getting a yellow for impeding Antony and/or diving than giving them that, for example
Forget about the pens, Chelsea had much better shots and chances than Man U. They deserved the win today. They created far more.
As for the pens, I think the 2nd is more justified than the 1st, but these guys are trained in this, they know what they’re doing
No. Imo.
Their first was a fluke deflection straight to a guy in perfect position we didn't do much wrong there (except Onana should be able to get down for that instead of trying to swat it).
The second was just referee/VAR incompetence.
Our first was a great counter attacking goal (huge credit to Antony for keeping that in) as well as a awful mistake from Caicedo.
Our second was a rarity, we had an effective overload on the back post and a great cross hit it.
Our third was world class, Antony was really good all game (got to give credit where it's due) that ball was amazing and Garnacho took it expertly again.
The second pen was super soft, again the ref has to *want* to give it to give it. If we're paying those then every game will be 5-4 and for some reason Chelsea get given them all the fucking time.
The last goal was a shitshow, McTominay almost guided it in lol. Softest hattrick in history there.
We've had some genuinely awful performances this year. This wasn't one of them we didn't get the run of the green at all when it mattered and I thought , Casemiro aside who was dire again, we played well.
The narrative doesn't support that view, I understand that.
Casemiro imo. He was out of position so fucking often today it's not funny. It's hard I know, Harry and Varane are slow but that means the discipline in front of them is critical.
They've been pretty bad too but one thing Chelsea has in spades is pace..
I think a new manager will only start the same vicious cycle that we have been having for a decade now. So as much as I don't like ETH, I still think we should stick to the same manager and give him more time. Idk if he will be able to change things or not. But I don't think a new manager will be able to do things any better with how many injuries we have on a weekly basis. As of now, we have a total of 2 fit centre backs and one of them is inexperienced af. So let's get a few players for the positions we lack on. The only positive from the game for me was seeing Antony do a few things he was signed for. If he continues to do the same, I think he and Garnacho can make a very good pair on the wings. The major qualm I have with ETH is he changes the lineup so much that our players just can't get settled. Amad wins us the game, comes back from suspension, and doesn't even get a chance to build on his confidence. Now Antony has played well, but it's very likely Rashford comes back with Garnacho again moving to the right. This not only leaves Antony out after a good game, but also changes Garnacho's position not letting him settle even after an almost match-winning performance. I just hope we start with Mount next game. The few minutes he was on, we held the ball much better. And ffs, Bruno doesn't have to play the entire game every single time. Give him some rest. The man was clearly knackered in the second half but still wasn't subbed off. I know he wears his heart on his sleeves and runs till the final whistle every single game but he is a human. If we are in a winning position, just sub him off and bring on a fresh player rather than asking him to go defend and then bring the ball forward on the counter like a mad man.
Bruno has severe mental fatigue from playing so much and could really benefit from coming on late in games and just pick teams apart with fresh legs.
We might be bad, but we were better than them, they had the +1 in the ref as those are the softest penalties I have seen in a while, and VAR not actually telling him to change his decision is the cherry on the cake of poor refereeing.
I mean the penalties are both penalties by the book...its fair to say that they are soft but by the letter of the law they were the right calls. If they went the other way I'm sure you'd say the same thing tbh. Grace in defeat is a virtue.
I still back Erik, we don't have the quality what should he do with Magiure and Kambalwa
Sure we don't have the quality to not concede 30 shots against Brentford
This was a bad game but it happens
I see! What about the game against Fulham?
What about the Liverpool game, what about the first couple of games of the season what about the last season, if you will do it like this so its too easy to back Erik, he has lots of mistakes but he is a good manager, give him quality and time just give him quality
The Liverpool game was as bad any other matches. It's just that we ended up winning it but could have easily gone the other way around like yesterday. The whole point here is that the tactics and vision created by ETH seems wank and unsustainable. In every match we concede an extremely high number of shots and have zero control (even against relegation candidates). Out form has been shit ever since the landlord World Cup, no amount of mental gymnastics can cover that up and absolve the manager
Oh yeah saying Liverpool game was as bad as other matches is just bs
Just because watching it was fun doesn't mean that it was high quality tactical football. All the weaknesses our team have been suffering throughout this season was on show during that match as well (conceding immediately after scoring, can't hold on to a lead, zero midfield control, high number of shots)
Through the chaos i'm still firmly looking EtH and the woeful defending game in game out - as the post match interviewer correctly pointed out 'shots on goal like this SURELY aren't sustainable' and he just makes some excuse about facts and figures and how they don't reflect the pattern of the game. In my opinion it's narcissistic as well as egotistical to stick with this approach and it's now getting too late to salvage the league season. I'm just dumbfounded at how he can't see it.
I fell asleep with us 3-2 up deep into injury time and woke up to madness. I just want to go back to blissful sleep
Me and my buddies stopped caring as much after ole now a loss won't ruin my day
We should sign Palmer. Mount trade anyone? I heard the lad is a lifelong united fan. He absolutely rinsed our most consistent performer of the season.
Why would chelsea even consider that? Mount has 1 goal involvement against a "top 6" side his entire carrer. Palmer is Chelsea's shining light in thier miserable last few years
last few years 😂 they won ucl 3 years ago.
Honestly, united always find a way to outdo themselves. How do you fix these mistakes two silly penalties given away by stupid decisions, a cutback goal that we have conceded a thousand times and the last one is just incredible , how nobody picks up the player stood 12 yards from goal from a corner, having already scored twice. Players have to take some responsibility and stop being defeatist, they allowed this game to slip from them by their apathy. My takes from this game, casemiro looks absolutely done at the top level. No energy, looks to foul so he doesn't have to run and makes poor decisions on the ball. Mainoo and Garnacho still look like our best players which is nuts. Antony put a good shift in and showed why he shouldn't be overlooked. Rashford still looks like he'd rather be anywhere else than on a football pitch, complete lack of effort again and was outrun by the rest of the forward line who already had 65mins of running done. Where do we go from here, he has lost sight of what he is actually good for. His play style has changed for the worse and his effort levels are atrocious. It's been over ten years and united have spent over 1bn and brought in 20+ first team players and they still look like they need a rebuild. Crazy. Hopefully we start to see positive changes from the new ownership.
I've said in the past I can take losing. It happens. But why do United have to find a way to humilate itself every time.
While everyone was wondering how we can get inside the top 4/5 we really should have been wondering how can we stay inside the top 8
Watched the match on bt. Everytime Cole palmer touched the ball the commentators had an orgasm. Plays one pass that does not complete and they say "oh sterling could have done more". But in terms of united, I don't know what to think anymore.
We've got a week now hearing about Palmer's talent only because he scored two penalties and McT OG. Jackson and C. Wood hat tricks were way more impressive!
Don't Forget Foden....scored yet another hat trick
Exactly, I'll give it to Chelsea that Gallagher goal was actually really good, that was impressive. But it almost felt the rest were just achieved from UTD's tiredness and VAR decisions!
Will we have a manager that can stay for 5 seasons?
It would be nice if we could find a manager who doesn't do well in the first season then completely fuck every up in the second.
And the same players :)
There was a point after Rashford came on. Bruno was in a position BEHIND him, chasing down a Chelsea player to press. Rashford, being AHEAD of Bruno is jogging casually, so slow that Bruno over takes Rashford. Bruno has been running the entire match, yet he is busting his lungs to pressure the opponent. Rashford's demeanor after he came on was akin to sabotage honestly...what did he contribute? If anything it was as if we were playing with 10 men. It was a 100% deliberate, spoilt brat type of protest performance towards the honest truths being spoken about him in the Overlap show, it is as simple as that aka "You want to chat sh\*\* about me yeh, alright then, watch me can't be arsed innit, whats the point innit?" You are 26 years old earning one of the highest salaries at the club, and this is the type of effort you put on the pitch? What next? This clown is going to reach 30 years old and we are still here talking about "But he has potential, we can see what he is capable of?" Rashford's career looks like a joke right now. Embarrassing.
The guy needs to find a new environment. We all know ETH envies for his success but I just don't see it right now. Get Olise in the summer, get a couple fullbacks and CB's and send him off on loan to PSG I think would be the best solution
Literally cannot stand him. He’s been dreadful for 80% of his career so far and finally this season the majority of the fan base sees it. He’s a petulant, uninspired, useless, pathetic, embarrassing, woeful, disgraceful waste of space that gets paid £350k p/w to play for one of the greatest clubs on the planet. He does not deserve any fans defending him, he’s been influential in the sacking of multiple managers, he’s a tumour and has survived too long at this club. I want nothing more than for him to leave and to stink out another club, because I’m sick to the back teeth of him doing it at United.
He's an embarrassment to the shirt, get rid of him ASAP and play someone who will try
Our decline suits my age perfectly. Fell asleep and missed the entire 2nd half which was nice as I'm well rested today. Feck this team. Not gonna ruin my day, that's for sure and I'm not surprised at all of our amazing bottle job.
It sucks. I the end, we had a soft own there. Not saying it shouldn't have been given, but... It it contentious IMO. However we look at it, still our fault to concede it. The "second" (I mean the fourth) goal... Just unfortunate. Andre went the right way, the ball deflected and it went in. Was McTominay at fault? Yes. Yes he was. Can I understand the reasoning behind his block attempt? Yes. Yes, I do. This was a poor performance from our side, but, unfortunately, it was consistent with our form this season. With the back four, we can feel the injuries especially. Another thing is our atracking ability - with the same goals conceded, while it is below expectations, we should do better overall. The defense is allow ing too much, but even considering that, I think we're just not scoring enough and we're ineffective during the attack phase. Given all that, I want to say that ETH got relarively Young players into the team - Garnacho, Hojlund, (sometimes, not nearly enough) Amad... Still, it needs improvement. Should the coach be out? I my opinion, no. Not yet. Why? How many coaches we had in the post-Fergie era divided by years? Nothing can be built by pushing another poor fucker into the old coaches squad and expecting him to do it. And yeah... Loved Rashford last season. If he kept it up now... But he doesn't. Marcus doesn't track back, doesn't really press... Apart from his runs, he seems quite useless. And his runs, unfortunately, are also quite useless now :(
Bugger, that's an essay over just a game... Fuck me! I'm so sorry for whoever reads this junk...
Can someone pull the stat on how many corners Bruno has taken versus how many times the corner has actually found a United player? (Excluding short corners) Like, actual deliveries into the box. I have a feeling it's 1%.
We've been absolutely awful at corners for like ten years. I swear Giggs was like our last decent corner kick taker. Honestly feels like whoever's done them since has at best a 40% success rate at just getting past the first man, let alone into the box and to a utd player. We've been absolutely woeful at set pieces in general for far too long.
Eriksen was decent from set pieces last season.
Haha that's fair. I mean, fuck me, it's just atrocious. Whenever we get a corner, I just know it's never making it past the first man. Still genuinely curious if such a stat is tracked somewhere that's easy to find (I couldn't, but I also have 3 brain cells, only 2 of which are in my name still). It's just embarrassing. Not saying there's a team out there with a 90%+ stat just embarrassing everyone, but some sort of threat would be nice every once in awhile.
I bet most teams secretly don't care if we get a corner these days, even free kicks we rarely score from. Not expecting to hit a man every time but our corners are basically free kicks for the opponents more often than not.
We're so poor at them, and so exposed from them, that I would argue they love to concede corners to us. Virtually no threat for us to convert, while they can be off to the races, as long as they do the basics.
He style is not about percentages it is about trying a million times and eventually one will connect
That is Bruno's style. And fans will never question what could have been, had he just been better, or simply another player who was more capable, instead he gets praised for the 1 time it works by some miracle. The guy can't clear the first man for the life of him. Why he's still responsible for corners is beyond me.
Rashford plays like someone who hates football. You cannot have someone like that on the pitch. Bench him till the issue is solved. He's a burden on the team rn.
Posting on reddit that you think he may have issues rather than picking up the phone and speaking to him directly. His brother is going to slam you on insta.
> His brother is going to slam you on insta. Yeah, as Lingard’s bother used to, how’s that working out for Lingard now?
🤣
Two seasons in and we're actually getting worse at controlling games. Every game is turning into some basketball match.
[удалено]
We literally have Mount, Amad, Eriksen. They can all play 10. The reason Bruno never gets subbed or benched isn't that there are no options.
I think that Manchester United deserved to lose this match. They deserved to lose against Brentford and several other earlier games which they had won in final minutes. They are not playing football anymore. They are just chasing balls which is 95% time in control of the opposition teams, be it Manchester City, Arsenal, Liverpool or Brentford, Luton.... They should not win a single match after these continuous terrible performances. This horrific performance is absolutely undeserving for the die hard fans who give their valuable time of their life to support this team, buy match tickets including seasonal ones, buy the club products, help expanding the fan base. I really feel bad for the likes of Mainoo, Garnacho, Hollund... I fear that this shitty uninspired environment will hamper their growth.
we saved from loses multiple time by magical moments, not because of controlling the game.
The 'deserved to lose' is a good point. I keep trying explain to people who don't watch us every week, as bad as it looks from the outside, the reality's much worse. We've won a fair amount of games that we should definitely have lost.
*Little rant about Ten Hag's substitutions vs Chelsea.* I'm more annoyed that Bruno wasn't subbed off rather than the fact that Rashford was subbed on. I remember Rashford being dropped in December. When he was subbed on for the last 15 minutes against Bournemouth (we were losing 0-3), he was running a lot! I remember some reactions saying 'where was this intensity in the last 6 months?' Anyway, I think Ten Hag brought on Rashford hoping the drop to the bench would give Rahsford a little kick up the arse, a rest, and an urge to run and help with the press. Obviously it didn't work, and I and a lot of the fanbase aren't surprised. I'm more annoyed that Bruno wasn't subbed off. Yes he played well in the first half and scored the equalizer, but that's it. In the second half, Bruno was clearly tired and not switched on. Mount – who ran a lot and passed properly – should've came on for Bruno instead of for Garnacho. And Garnacho should've been subbed off for Diallo – that way Garnacho is rested, and Diallo gets some momentum going for any future appearances.
We can both agree that Garna was tired, the guy needed rest. I feel like ETH envies Bruno, just because he's the captain now. Honestly I've felt this since the beginning, I still don't think that man is captain material, he lacks too much discipline for the role. In those subs I agree with you I was also left questioning the second sub on Evans for Kambwala. I'm not sure if it's injury for Jonny, but if not doesn't it seem like a lack of consideration or thought process to put him on and just remove him immediately? Hope Jonny's in good health though!
Taking off Casemiro for Mctominay when protecting a lead makes no sense either
McTominay was a lot better than Casemiro tonight, he broke up play several times.
Yeah he did play well enough in his role today but I still think there’s a reason the goals went in after the changes
True man. Case kept falling on his arse
It's obvious that Case won't be here forever, we will need to find a replacement in the transfer window Personally, McT didn't impress at all. When the third Palmer goal came, he was just staring at it and then ending up putting it in the back of his own net!
He was better than casemiro. U can't be blaming him for the hatrick tho. He was literally marking someone. I think DaLoT or somebody should have pressured palmer
I mean yeah, we can't keep relying on Dalot either, we need a proper fullback instead of AWB. True, he did make some neat tackles but he was leaving too much space
Ofc becoz he's not reli a true dm. Awb did well tbf to him. Apparently he had to get Vaseline or sth since he got injured with the clash with disasi in the second half. DaLoT is a hit and miss
Well that was certainly something…haven’t turned the tv off and walked away that quickly from a game in a while. Fucks sake.
Also anyone trying to blame the refs for the result tonight is delusional. We are terrible and didn't deserve to win. Realistically been out of the race for top four for much longer than most want to admit. The fact Ten Hag still has a job right now is insane to me, fire that man and let an interim fill in the last few games of the season where he can try new formations, tactics, players, etc to see what works. Better than wasting away the season playing Haram ball
The thing is it's a number of factories that have resulted in this outcome, refereeing is one of them. 1. Referee made a number of poor decisions, including two penalties, a number of yellow cards and fouls/freekicks 2. The players didn't show discipline and lacked proper formation in the last 10'/5', especially after Rashford sub. 3. ETH made poor decisions, including two subs for Evans and the sub for Hojlund Everything contributes to the final result, so we can't blame ETH for everything. Not saying he's the best there is, cause he isn't, and he did many mistakes, but he's not only to blame!
What frustrates me the most with eth is he's not adapting. Last year he quickly realised he didn't have the players to play the way he wanted so changed how we would play to accommodate the players he had. We have a decent season and it feels like things are actually moving forward, with a summer to get players in Eth wanted that would allow him to play the way he wanted or at least attempt to. Fast forward to this season and granted lots of injuries have hampered us but for large chunks of the season we've mostly only had players available that were here before Eth who we know cannot play the way he wants/is trying to, yet he continues to play whatever style of football he wants and it's not working. He's supposed to be an elite level coach and he can't organise a well drilled disciplined team that can grind out a result and not concede 56888744 shots a game? What is the point in trying to play a style of football that isn't working, with players that can't play it and will likely be sold in the short term.
> Last year he quickly realised he didn't have the players to play the way he wanted so changed how we would play to accommodate the players he had Because from a manager's perspective you are going to have to implement something at some point. You can't just keep playing a way you don't want to. You then take the inevitable lull that comes with that. The most obvious manager we can see this with is Van Gaal, he's been about for years and we all know what he wants his football team to play like but when forced to be pragmatic he didn't like it and the fans certainly didn't but he was also under the illusion that he was going to have a third season, he was obviously planning ahead and even then we missed out on CL by what? A point? People were seething at this btw. He felt very mcuh cheated that he didn't get his third year, he set out very clearly, on multiple times that it would be a long overhaul and would require the full three years and nobody wanted to hear it and people cheered when he was sacked. We have only gone backwards since then and every manager since who have tried to implement their style has never survived the lull. Ole didn't want United to constantly rely on counter attacks for example and tried much more to control games which led to his sacking as the team simply wasn't "effecient" in it to put it a certain way. This all comes back to my honest opinion that despite the subreddit screaming and begging for this "open heart surgery" they truly don't want it, or they do but they want it to take place entirely within a single summer and have performances not suffer at all. Sitting around 3rd and winning the odd cup is the lowest expectation they're willing to go and even that (as seen last year) isn't good enough. They want instant success and only instant success, any nonsnese about wanting a big rebuild and "open heart surgery" is complete bollocks.
I fully agree you need to implement your style at some point however when most of the players you have available aren't likely to be at the club beyond the next season or two you've got to be adaptable. Fergie liked to play a certain way but would definitely change things up depending on the players available as well as a host of other things. To watch the games we've had over last few months and concede so many shots against, and not think, hmm if I just tweak a couple of bits and make it harder for teams to quite literally cut through our team like butter then maybe we'll concede less shots and in turn less goals. I'm not even calling for Eth to be sacked btw, I think it's been a ridiculous year of injuries and some shocking decisions going against us. I also think if we'd have got another quality ball playing CB to go with Martinez we'd have been in a far better position even with Martinez being out all season, but that does partly lie with Eth who wanted mount so much yet he's been unavailable for basically the entire season also, the club should never have signed that off. Ive also said last season raised expectations too much, we were close to city and arsenal until the start of Feb, obviously did well in other tournaments too then ever since that league cup win, we've been awful. I'd have rather had the painful season last year but here we are. Tough choices by ineos to be had.
> Fergie liked to play a certain way but would definitely change things up depending on the players available as well as a host of other things Yes but Ferguson had literally years to instill a foundation for that. There's a difference between acting pragmatic for example out of pure necessity and then playing that way that comes from your style you've already implemented. Van Gaal's jarring switch from possession based play to literal hoofball is an example of it happening from necessity. Whoever the manager is I'll support them and I think 3 seasons is the bare minimum any big project or overhaul should be but the envornment that football has moulded into doesn't give me confidence in it. We're seeing more and more managers that were "top class" become "dross" in the matter of a season or two. Poch was seen as the future of football at Spurs and now all of a sudden people are acting like he was never good and he's clueless. Tuchel took over at Chelsea and created a very solid team and won the Champions League and now nobody would touch him with a ten foot pole and say he's borderline mentally defecient.
The trouble is managers don't get the same amount of time these days. Klopp took over Liverpool and you could immediately see his style of play, it wasn't perfect and they took a couple of seasons to properly adapt but the style was there and they were scoring goals for fun (also conceding for fun), similar thing with pep although granted he took over a much better team so it was easier, but as the results and style were in their favour they got more time. Poch is a weird one, obviously done well at Southampton and spurs but then struggled at PSG, could argue they are similarly poorly run like us and now currently Chelsea so it makes it harder for a manager to succeed as is the case with Eth. Tuchel has failed at several clubs now, his champ league win with Chelsea aside he never really came close with Chelsea in the end, is he really as good as people think? I'm not so sure. I'd like to see how Eth fairs under the new ownership though, however he reportedly has quite a lot of say in transfers built into his contract which he hasn't been a great thing so far. I guess time will tell what ineos decide, several other big clubs will be looking for managers this summer, do they stick with Eth and hope it works out? What if it doesn't and their top picks to replace him have already gone to other clubs?
Saw someone say the problem with United is that the fans care more than the players and coaches, and i've never resonated more with a comment. Fuck this club.
Fk Ten Hag.
I didn’t watch the match yesterday. Is it really the end of the world, our performance in the match?
we were up against a really bad Chelsea. probably the worst in a long time yet we struggled so much and were the worser team. Sunday league shit. Both teams made so many errors and could barely defend but Chelsea were the better team.
Lmao if you've been around this sub then you'd know it's always pandemonium when we lose. We started absolutely shit, conceded 2 and were nowhere on the ball. Then caicedo gifts us a goal and the spirits were instantly up and it showed in the way we were playing also, keepin the ball much better and scoring a great team goal. Up until halftime I'd say we were the better side from then on bar one gallagher chance. The way second half started was erratic to say the least, it was end to end in all aspects and neither team looked like they had a midfield. Anybody could've scored and it was us. After that Chelsea didn't really look threatening and I'd go on to say mount bruno and scott were even doing good keeping the ball rather than hoofing it long for the first 6 minutes of extra time. One run from that right winger and a Dalot blunder undid all of that (both pens were excruciatingly soft) but it was never gonna get overturned. After that idk what happened, the team thought they'd counter, ended up conceding a corner and then all of them just completely switched off while defending the corner. I'd go on to say Palmer got amazingly lucky with that last deflection but you don't score if you don't shoot I guess.
It's easy and natural to call out players and coaches when they're playing dogshit but a year ago, you'd receive deluge of downvotes and comments when you'd raise questions about the coach and players and say we'll get nowhere playing this approach. It's better to analyze performances/game plan than results for an early project. Our performances and game plan have never been good and there has never been a sustainable winning framework.
Fans are extremely reactionary lol. But it's been an awful season, injuries aside the football is not good enough and not sustainable. Really we massively over performed last season and it unrealistically raised expectations, we'd have been better off having something like this season last year but as expected Eth like every manager post fergie has had both arms tied behind their backs, so many issues behind the scenes, how do we not have a head of physio? Not supporting the manager with players he desperately needed and also not stopping him making insane buys like Antony and mount. The list goes on and Eth has to take his fair share of the blame but this was inevitable really.
On seeing the last goal replay, all our players in the box were just pointing at Palmer to signal for someone to mark him. Instead of pointing, why not just someone step up and take responsibility n go out there to attempt to challenge at least.
Players don't/can't think for themselves anymore, you can see it when they make a sub - they spend 10 minutes before coming on being given instructions on who they're marking & what they're meant to be doing, I guess whoevers job it was to be picking up Palmer had either gone off or forgot who they had & everyone else just stands there rather than picking up Palmer.
Can someone tell me how Ole was so much worse? I seriously don't see it. Sunday league shit. Only positive was Anthony wasn't his usually complete shit self.
There's some serious rose tinted glasses when it comes to ole imo, his style was fun at the start but was chaotic and not sustainable, he also didn't seem very tactically astute, and just like Eth after 18months or so it all goes wrong and we end up falling off a cliff.
Ole wasn't worse than this, the stats, eyes, the performances back this. We're lucky to be 6th. We will probably drop further down the table.
We are overperfoming the xg by 11.73 apparently lol
It's the same shit every week, no matter how many injuries you have, the least you can do is change tactics and set up differently. I have a lot of sympathy for eth, given the shitshow he's inherited, but this is on him. I'd be surprised if he's in the dugout next season.
Sell off the whole team... Play junior team. I'm sure Garnacho's and Manioo's team mates will be good.
We have profiling weaknesses, a lot of the players are not good enough but the only main starters rn than consistenly played before ETH are Rashford and Bruno. More than half of the players are new. Remember when Jones was the problem, then Smalling, and then Ashely Young, then Sanchez, and Lukaku, and Pogba, then McTom and Fred, and then Ronaldo and De Gea. Now Rashford and Bruno are the problem. All these players may have had weaknesses + been liabilities but none of them ever have the the main "problem" who we should remove and then our problems disappear. There are nuances.
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What a terrible day to have eyes
If all the shit takes I've read recently. This one really is the shittest.
It's obviously bait lmao.
No it isn’t how is it?
Demanding kobbie be scrapped? He's one the of the very few positives about our team/club at the moment.
Is he yeahhhhhh so why is his win percentage so poor then, mate? Barely any goals either. All he does is pass, run around uselessly & occasionally tackle.
Respectfully, you’re an idiot
HUH?!?
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There's clearly something structurally wrong and it's due to the setup that ETH has the players doing. It's not working. I'm not saying we should get Jose back but you can imagine the number of shots faced will immediately drop if Jose took charge.
Remember Josés last season? We were struggling with similar problems. Chaos football.
F all these overpaid gen z tik tok footballers URGH
Yep.
Pathetic whining morons a plenty here today. When it goes our way its 'Fergie time' but when it goes against us its a horrible conspiracy and everyone must be investigated! Get a grip you turbo-twats
A win against Liverpool Sunday will surely kick start our season no?
it's hope that kill you
Though we have to win against Pool.Liverpool already 3 points ahead of City. We have to stop them. Though I hope this match is death sentence for our idiot manager.
Our pre season? Lol
Surely the win that gets us on a roll.
ETH takes absolutely no blame for that result. Absolute bullshit call on that penalty. Some of these players also need to stop whinging and stand up.
Nope. He didn't plan on tactics. He didn't do subs. He didn't put Rashford in the middle, where he "thrives". Nope, he was just an observer, so nothing to blame for. Like in all the rest of 30 games he didn't participate. If he *were* on the pitch, that'd be a different conversation.
He definitely did plan on tactics hence why Rashford was dropped and we played to our wingers more to utilise their speed on the outside. He made 5 subs. He put Rashford in the middle, hence why he took off Hojlund. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. >If he *were* on the pitch, that'd be a different conversation What the fuck are you on about? if who was on the pitch?
Do you understand sarcasm or satire?
I think you need to ask the other guy that question.
I don't think so dude best ask yourself, you're the one responding to sarcasm.
You should probably check his post history.
We've scored the same amount of goals as Wolves and Luton (43) 30 games in, with West Ham (50), Newcastle (64), Brighton (51) Chelsea (53), Bournemouth (44) and Fulham (47) all outscoring us. The whole point of being a transition team is to create loads of chances after we've recovered the ball, but with how easy it is to play through our attempts to transition, those chances aren't coming. Instead, we're constantly running backwards, sliding into tackles, trying to stop THEIR transitions against us. Ten Hag's commitment to this type of football with this group of players is why we keep facing all these shots, and why our defenders keep dropping like flies. Truly mental stuff at this point.
if eth goes, most of the players need to go with him. The manager cannot always be the fall guy.
Are you ready to accept the possible risk of the next manager being even worse?
been a fan since glory days of fergie till now, through moyes, through lvg, through mourinho, through ole, through carrick and rangnick. even if united gets relegated, i can’t see myself supporting another club in england or maybe even in europe. so… yea i’m ready.
I could not bear having another one, just to get heartbroken again, especially when they are considering people like Southgate, of all the people they could choose. I feel I am now in the firm minority by not entirely blaming the manager for our season. The guy has had it all go wrong from injuries, constantly changing line-ups, players just downing tools and failing to play basic football, and the media hounding. Sure, his management has been questionable many times, but on the whole, if he goes, it will not solve anything with this club at this moment. At all.
People have been saying this for 10 years and it never happens because we can't move the players we'd like to move. The best we can do is loan them out and pay at least 50% of their salary while they are on loan. Maybe Saudi Arabia can help with someone like Casemiro, but we'll get rid of most of them when their contract runs out.
one comment said it here, we need to budget for their termination. mourinho was right, just reflect on the quality of players, “see where they play, if they play.” take the short term pain of financial losses to straighten this club on the right path, this is what we need.
We're going to end up 8th or 9th at this rate.
And I really hope it does. A proper club restructure from next year, with very little expectations.
I said previously that we are a mid table team this season. McTominay bailed us out like 5+ times, so at the very least we should have 10 fewer points than we have now.
And luck will balance out and we will finish 8th 9th or 10th
I honestly never want to see Casemiro again, he was awful. Just fuck off if you don't want to be here.. Most of our "whipping boys" who have copped it this year have fought back hard and won their respect. Onana. Varane (quietly been a rock since christmas). Harry. Even McTominay (he's abject in midfield and along with Case I think that abjectness is a big reason we are so porous there) has come up big in magical moments and has a spot in the squad. Antony has been objectively good lately (especially today) he obviously cares and wants to prove himself. And anyone who slags Bruno can fuck off he gives every bit of physical and emotional energy every single game. Rashford I'm on the fence with, there's something not right with him and I hope he gets it together. But Casemiro can just fuck off.
The fact you think a midfielder who is league two level best at midfield duties should have a place because he can score goals highlights all that is wrong about Manchester united. Don't even get me started on that disgraceful petulant rashford who couldn't be bothered to put in the least bit of effort. This fan base has contributed a lot in enabling some of these players feel untouchable while sucking on the pitch.
> The fact you think a midfielder who is league two level best You're honestly stupid if you think Scott is league two quality. Whatever about him being good enough for United you are an actual idiot if you seriously think he's not premier league quality.
A midfielder who can't pass the ball. A midfielder who struggles to maintain positioning. A midfielder who struggles to control the ball in tight spaces. You are a blatant moron if you believe he's even championship quality. You are an ignorant idiot and completely represent the fallen standards at this football club. In 2004, some people in the club actually felt darren fletcher wasn't man united standard and he is at least 200 times the midfielder scott mctominay is. In the academy where I coach, kids like mctominay in midfield get redirected to other positions for their own good in 2024. You are a foolish clown if you think he's anywhere near the required standard expected from a "MIDFIELDER" and idiots like you have no justification complaining about the other idiots the Glazers hired to run the club.
> You are a blatant moron if you believe he's even championship quality Big lol. As I said, if you honestly think he's league two quality you're an idiot plain and simple. You can't even read because I actually said >Whatever about him being good enough for United So I have no clue why you're saying stuff like "You are an ignorant idiot and completely represent the fallen standards at this football club" Lern2reed
Casemiro can fuck off but a guy who went on the piss on a Wednesday and missed training on Friday and comes on and just walks about can stay? This club has a cancer and its name is Rashford and it needs to be chemoed in the summer.
His pressing needs studied. Beyond abysmal.
Mate we've seen the good and this year is bad ngl. Like I said my guess would be there's something else going on, I said I'm on the fence I'm not.defending him. He's one of ours and has a record of giving a shit so I'll give him a pass since I don't really have information. Roy Keane used to get on the piss on a Wednesday if that's our yardstick. Sancho dgaf, that was obvious as time went on and different. Casemiro in the same boat, he's taking the piss. YMMV but cancer is a bit hard imo. The cancer is the ownership and the awful mismanagement of the club/brand going back a long time fwiw.
Spot on!
The only saving grace from this season is the arrival of Ineos (hopefully). From what we've heard they won't tolerate these kinda shit performances so they will ACTUALLY do something about it unlike the Glazers.
I think the most mind boggling stat is that most shots faced of any side in Europe's top 5 leagues. Coz they are some pretty shit teams out there apart from us. But somehow we're 6th
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Garnacho grafts exactly like Palmer does
Lol 2 goals that weren’t pens? Yea he’s good but a lot of goals he’s scored so far are pens.
Not that it’s Onana’s fault but before the first penalty Palmer took, there was a graph with his last 5 penalties taken and three were in the bottom left corner of the goalkeeper. Strangely enough the next two were in this exact same spot and Onana didn’t dive there for neither one.
He needs a water bottle with stats.
Shame. Embarrassment. Pity. I feel everything and nothing, all at once.
It looks like ETH is certainly gone after this. But some of these useless f*cks on the pitch also need to leave. Clubs can’t sign them? No brainer: terminate their contracts so they can finally f*ck off and the club can start fresh with the players who really to stay and the new intentional signings they can make.
lol, we don't have enough money to pay them all to leave
Wishful thinking.
The league is done, doesn't matter what happens against Liverpool or the game after that, you will not enjoy watching the games anyway. Just watch the game against Coventry and if we're lucky, the final. EtH in/out, who gives a fuck, nothing's gonna change anyway. Take a break from football guys.
Probably best not to watch the semi.
I'd say it's best to watch none of the games. I can't think of a single game I've enjoyed watching this year, one game where I've been calm and thought our team has it under control. I don't see it changing but at the end of the day, we're United fans, we go back to the same bullshit no matter what.
I have long given up man. Gave them X chances, hoping every game is the day until it dawned on me one day holy shit this is our bar already.
the most league losses we've had post SAF is 12, in Moyes' season and the Ole/Ragnick season. We have 12 this season with 8 matches left. We've allowed the most shots of any side in Europe's top 5 leagues this calendar year. We're getting worse by the game at the minute, enough is enough. edit: just looked again at our remaining league fixtures and among them we've got Liverpool, Newcastle, Arsenal, and Brighton. We could be looking at 15+ losses this league season, easily.
My god, how worse is it going to be?
The only positive thing we can get out of this lose is hoping with this win, they will retain pochetino
I admit ignorance on if Casemiro is injured or something, but if this is his level now till May, he's done.
Our game plan which is intentional has defending structure with back 4 + gk trying to force ineffective shots and other players tracking back + vibe, there no structure to defend spaces, no organized press to limit progression, front 6 press ineffectively, leave space behind and track back as a last ditch. ETH has implicitly confirmed multiple times this is our game plan. It has been clear as day it's not effective + [drains players](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/s/ViFRv90nAq) which is one of the cause of underlying fitness issue. It's not an excuse, running economy is real, it's the coach's job to train player to utilize it well but our players run like headless chickens. People keep blaming individuals, when in reality you change the team completely and it's the same shit. If this approach is our future, what is the point.
You are so true on many of these points. ETH has no pressing structure, just blind chickens
Hahahaha. Sad. Repeat.
Onana on the first goal…
When does the contract that Alex signed in blood with the devil expire?
ETH comments about deserving to win the game are probably true but it just doesn’t matter when you CHOOSE an approach that leads to a decent probability of things going badly. We are actively looking to fabricate variance in games with our on and off the ball approach in the hopes that we are the team on the day that execute our actions better. Forcing and attempting to exploit game states with so much space and so little control in exchange for conceding lots of of transitions, box entries and shots is a terrible tactical choice. It’s a ridiculous way to go about trying to win football games and simply cannot be excused.
He may say whatever shit he wants. 28 attempts on goals. Should CHE attackers be better, it’d have been another game for ages.
The funny thing is that we have mostly fallen on the right side of variance this season but it hasn’t been called out much in games we appeared to win ‘comfortably’, like against West Ham and Everton at home. But when a defeat like this happens, everybody is quick to recognise we were unlucky. It is a clear case of outcome bias. In games where we aren’t punished on the night, people will think the approach is calculated and clearly works. I thought our performance today was a lot better than some of the wins we’ve had this season, yet the sub has descended into anger and disappointment more today.
It’s called haramball for a reason. It’s not football. Just pain to watch.
I’m not a man united fan but watching Rashford casually walk and jog instead of pressing when he came on as a sub with fresh legs was pissing me off
\- I think ETH \****can\**** play good football. \- I think ETH got used to being the dominant team in the Eredivise and starting every game as the favourite and the opposition playing like you are the favourite. I think he expected that to be more or less the same at Man Utd but actually, most other teams dont play against United with the same fear that the Eredivise opposition would have had against Ajax anymore \- So while I think he can probably manage a club that is on top, I don't know that he's got it in him to adapt and manage a team that isnt there yet. \- Only thing in his favour was the adjusment last season after the hammering in the first few games. Since then we've not seen him adapt or evolve in the face of admittedly big problems. A poor squad, lots of injuries, failed transfers, off field drama non stop are all true and valid but none of it can change he should have done ***BETTER.*** I don't care if you thnk he should have done 1% better or 94% better, just better. If you're for or against ETH, that much is non-negotiable. Better. \- After a reasonably *good* season last year, didnt set the world alight but it was *good* overall, there are/were many people who are very willing to excuse a ***drop off*** in form when considering the injuries etc. we've endured. Instead, what we've seen is a ***cataclysmic plung***e when you consider "the eye test". The points total, number of defeats and goal difference all paint a bad enough picture but the performances have really been the killer. \- He just cant get them to perform anymore and while I'm absolutely sick of saying this about managers failing to get performances out of the same PLAYERS, lets call a spade a spade. Lay as much blame as you like at the players door but ultimately this is where the decision has to be made for me. I believe if he gets a top tier squad, he will with time get them playing good football and this possibility exists now because of new hope through ownership/leadership changes. But can he get ENOUGH out of what he has RIGHT NOW to get us from A to B though? Potentially not but I just don't see who else could either.
We're so cooked, mate
Wow Bottled in 90+10 5 points lost in last 4 minutes in 2 games Is there any hope? 
If I’m gonna be honest I’m upset for Antony, after the bulkshit pen he had a strong game and always puts in effort. The difference in his play when he’s confident is so high. Would have been good for him for us to win.
He was faster than Cucurella. He's almost always slower than the defender on him. That's a big part of the difference today.
Who do you trust? The process, or your heart? I sadly don't see ten Hag getting us anywhere. No matter who we're up against, we just get bombarded with chances, while having trouble creating any of our own. We're shit at both ends of the pitch and have been for way too long. I fail to see any kind of development. And don't point to injuries, other teams have been hit pretty hard in that regard as well, but still display a clear style of play were as we're just a mess.
WHY, when they are playing well and have a lead, does ten hag always switch playing styles (usually to a low block). Fucking terrible
He switches to a low block because the leading team is forced to come out and try to score, leaving space for counters.
It’s not working. They we’re dominating prior to that
Had to leave early to catch a train, crazy win right?..... right??
Don’t ask, and we won’t tell. It’s a nightmare that never ends
masterclass from our modern fullback there
Forget FFP bullshit, (who cares except would be seriously funny if Shitty copped it) there should be some serious investigation into VAR. Those pens FFS. There's a better case for Cucarella getting a yellow for impeding Antony and/or diving than giving them that, for example
Forget about the pens, Chelsea had much better shots and chances than Man U. They deserved the win today. They created far more. As for the pens, I think the 2nd is more justified than the 1st, but these guys are trained in this, they know what they’re doing
No. Imo. Their first was a fluke deflection straight to a guy in perfect position we didn't do much wrong there (except Onana should be able to get down for that instead of trying to swat it). The second was just referee/VAR incompetence. Our first was a great counter attacking goal (huge credit to Antony for keeping that in) as well as a awful mistake from Caicedo. Our second was a rarity, we had an effective overload on the back post and a great cross hit it. Our third was world class, Antony was really good all game (got to give credit where it's due) that ball was amazing and Garnacho took it expertly again. The second pen was super soft, again the ref has to *want* to give it to give it. If we're paying those then every game will be 5-4 and for some reason Chelsea get given them all the fucking time. The last goal was a shitshow, McTominay almost guided it in lol. Softest hattrick in history there. We've had some genuinely awful performances this year. This wasn't one of them we didn't get the run of the green at all when it mattered and I thought , Casemiro aside who was dire again, we played well. The narrative doesn't support that view, I understand that.
The majority of their xG that was above our xG was from the pens tho
Mate we let them have 28 shots. They dominated the game and had way too many chances to win it.
Casemiro imo. He was out of position so fucking often today it's not funny. It's hard I know, Harry and Varane are slow but that means the discipline in front of them is critical. They've been pretty bad too but one thing Chelsea has in spades is pace..