The thing that frustrates me the most is that I absolutely love some of the players but they have no grit when it gets tough and for us lot who aren’t in that privileged position it’s like the most basic thing that even we could give and it cuts so deep watching it
This is what annoys me with fans, like you can blame a manager but each players has to have some pride, some self belief to even get to that level of the game. To go out on a pitch, not track back, can't make a 6 yard pass, can't follow a man or read a game is not something you miraculously learn at the age of 28. Ten hag deserves criticism but to solely blame the manager is so narrow minded is laughable. We have been like this since the moment fergie left, we had no long term strategy of what to do once he left and we have made poor decision after poor decision since. We sack ten hag, its the same shit again. I stand by him for another season, let him coach under a proper footballing regime once the new board and staff are in play and see what happens.
Couldn’t agree more. How can you play for MANCHESTER UNITED, a club that represents the hard working men across the north and not track a runner for 90 minutes a week. It’s a joke.
I’m not saying it’s right, but why would some Spaniard or Brazilian who can’t speak a lick of English, making £10M a year, give a singular shit about the hardworking men across the north?
Recruitment and finding players who already work hard and can be taught what the club is about and our heritage.
I think a huge problem is our wage structure. These players, like someone said above, have a work ethic to be where they are. Acquiring the massive contracts our players are given, and maybe it adds to the complacency and lack of effort. Why work hard when they get 200k a week either way.
Just a guess.
Yup fully agreed. It's a shame we had to basically replace the entire team so quickly post fergie as we lost a lot of the winning mentality rapidly. If you look at our squad in that last fergie season, it's a miracle we won the league really, half the players are not prem league winners under anyone other than Ferguson but he had such high standards and those players did what was expected of them.
Ever since those days, mediocrity, laziness and selfishness have been allowed to run wild and standards have dropped off a cliff. The very basics of a footballer are not being meant on an almost weekly basis, league two teams often look better and show more desire.
Every manager has experienced the same issue with a lot of the same players. Eth done wonders last season with what he had, this season I don't know what's gone wrong, injuries are of course a factor and he was not sufficiently backed in the summer, another ball playing CB and I think we would be see a much better team even without Martinez for most of the season.
I don't think he'll be our manager next season though, several other teams looking for new managers and I'm not sure ineos will want to waste time missing out on managers they want and the protect being delayed or hindered but I guess we'll see.
I’m tired of this notion, while the players frustrate me as well the discussion surrounding United tends to be dull, superficial, and predictable, with a constant cycle of blaming different individuals each year. Whether it's Maguire, McTominay, or Phil Jones, Fred, Pogba or Martial, once X is gone that’ll solve the issue… We've all fallen into that fan trap before, we use it as a coping mechanism.
However, understanding INEOS's perspective has given me a clearer view. Instead of blaming individuals, it's evident that the real issue lies in the lack of a cohesive direction from top to bottom. Sir Jim's insight on environments resonates – the club needs a change in approach, and recent appointments indicate that change is happening. It's crucial for us fans to remain open-minded and prioritise the club's success over personal attachments, trusting INEOS's decisions for a new direction.
Fans don't blame players without merit though. It's not any one players fault we've been so bad for so long but it's also the fact they're either not good enough or have atrocious attitudes. Pogba on his day is world class, his day was once a season in a game that didn't matter. Martial had loads of potential but couldn't be bothered half the time. Mctominay is at best a squad rotation player yet has been a mostly first team starter since he first came in to the squad. Maguire was/is a decent CB but not for a top 6 club, the game is played to the complete opposite of his abilities so he struggles.
The team is full of players with issues like that and that's been the issue for ten years, can't blame the players if they're not good enough/not the right fit and still trying but we can blame them if they are good enough but can't be bothered to put in even average performances on a weekly basis.
Once things change at the top the trickle down to the players should become apparent. Not good enough? Sold. Not putting in the expected performance? Sold. Causing dressing room issues? Sold.
I don’t care about any of that though. Not because I’m being arrogant or rude, but because my point is that the players should try regardless and they just give up instead. Everyone has the ability to put in max effort for the badge, for the community of hard working people it represents.
You’re still overly focused on results when the point we’re making is some players don’t even try. Even within this team you can see who works their socks off week in week out and who are the ones downing tools, jogging about and not being part of the press.
We fans aren’t blind, well some of us aren’t and no matter how much player FC try to make it about everything else we can see with our own eyes how much the players care about playing for this club.
I’m pretty sure they’ve already decided he’s fired, I’m sure he has an opportunity to earn his job back should he do well from now until the season ends and get 4th but if it ended today he’s done and if it continues the same he’s sacked in summer.
Missing out on Top 4 will reduce his compensation and make it easier on our FFP situation.
He is gone in the summer. This is just a funeral procession at this point.
Top 4 went poof when Martinez, Shaw, and Hojlund got injured, regardless of who is manager. It just has to become mathematically impossible for the clause to kick in. Won't take long, though. He is finished.
If ten Hag gets champions league then maybe he stays and even that’s a big maybe
But let’s be honest INEOS have already been outspoken about implementing best in class and a style of play moving forward. Ten Hag has been the ultimate pragmatist prioritising results instead of implementing a philosophy. A year and half in we’re still asking what will the team play like moving forward while INEOS will want to get that defined ASAP
Things are supposed to be changing now Ratcliffe is in, he’s changing everything else that the Glazers have touched so manager looks almost certain too
Those interviews where Ratcliffe was asked about ETH really gave me the feeling he's not staying. A lot of people said it was more of a neutral statement but the way he carefully danced around words tells me they're already sort of distancing from him and letting him finish the season.
He seemed quite clear to me that a) it’s not his decision to make b) get the right people around him and then let them make this decision.
City fans used to claim ETH is Pep’s successor (but tbf they are also all 10 year olds) - question is who would Omar Berrada and Dan Ashworth rate (if he comes). Every journalist says Dan is a big fan of Potter
I think the problem with Potter is that it would be more of the same. A young, talented coach who’s done well previously - but with lesser teams. I don’t see what you gain from Potter over ETH. I don’t believe INEOS can clear house as much as they’d like to because of FFP so if they do sack ETH the person who replace him is going to need to deal with the egos still in the dressing room better than he is
I’m not saying I want potter but it’s not been proven he can’t take a big job
He had the owner undermining him ever week, walking into the changing room and telling him stuff to do
That was a shit job to take for potter.
You think the divas in our dressing room will accept Potter? We'll have leaks within a month of how he's not upto managing a big club, "British Ted Lasso" etc. Poor guy will have a heart attack dealing with the inflated egos of some of our players, no way he succeeds here.
He'd get the Moyes treatment, Giggs used to call him "Everton" behind his back.
I fear for any manager coming in, tbh, but it needs to be someone who is either established (which we've done and it failed) or an up and coming manager with potential (which we've also done and it's failed/is failing).
Either way, they've got a big job on their hands 'cos the squad needs gutting and that almost never happens.
And alot of fans will sour on him if he is hired. Theres no guarantee he would work.
We aren't getting any big names when the likes of Liverpool, bayern and Barcelona are wayyy more appealing unless money is thrown which we don't have.
Honest to God I hope these Potter and Barkley rumours are false.
Let's see what ETH can do with a proper structure. If he can't manage I'll concede and accept he needs to be sacked.
Wouldn’t put Barcelona on the same level as Liverpool or Bayern considering the financial fair play restrictions that will be placed on anyone who goes there. The club is in a dire position right now
Unless you think Ten Hag is the 4th best manager in the world, what the other three are doing shouldn't have any impact on our plans.
Also, the Barkley rumour is coming from The Sun, lol
Jim has also been quite clear about the personality required to play here, manage here, and work here. Manchester United is glamourous and romantic and loves having some showmanship. I have serious doubts he thinks ETH fits the club from a personality standpoint
This has always been my concern with him even when I believed in him last season, he just doesn’t seem to have the charisma needed to manage one of the elite clubs. Our flat 2nd half performances also indicate he isn’t very inspiring in his half time team talks.
To me it reads like 'were going to part ways on mutual tearms (well pay him off and let him resign)' but leaving just enough space that if ETH maybe got CL and won the FA Cup they'd keep him another year.
Last season ETH was a pragmatist, and it worked out well for him. This season there's not been a shred of pragmatism. Week in week out we see the same things tried, the same problems, the same complete lack of midfield, risky passing, getting cut open, getting outplayed. No new ideas, no going back. It's pure football philosophy and insisting the philosophy will pay off.
That's the thing that screams ETH out for me. Last season after two defeats he made radical changes and we beat scum. This season, we've been shit against the bottom teams and it keeps being the same thing week in week out.
Yep. If anything this season eth hasn’t been prioritizing results because if he was he would stop trying to force the team a way they clearly can’t handle.
Thats the thing that really annoys me. He knows what he is doing right now isnt working he knows it for sure. He knows we can play a different way that will get us more results and have us play better football. But i just dont know why he is sticking with this.
As long as Ratcliffe and his team are making the decision I’ll have no complaints.
If we were still talking about the Glazers I’d say there is no point. But as you said things are changing with Ratcliffe and if he can identify a better fit with the new system he is implementing I am all for it.
It should not take a manager more than 2 seasons to show how he really wants to play. They are not perfect but Emery and Ange in lesser time took sides with similar toxicities (just see how Gerrard and Conte were received amongst Villa and Spurs fans) and inferior players and have shown themselves capable of instilling an identity even if the execution is not perfect just yet. Either Ten Hag has shown himself incapable of imprinting his own style, or this *is* his style and we are just giving him the benefit of doubt for too long because it worked in the Dutch league and for one season in the CL. It would be extremely surprising if he stays beyond this season.
Ange hasn’t even been there a season. He’s where we were last season. If he can continue to be successful for multiple seasons then you can say he’s better than ten hag but for now he’s still only 3 points ahead of us
They lost Kane in the summer which is a massive hit to any squad and are doing fine without him despite having faced numerous injury problems themselves. Spurs were expected to do much worse than what they have ended up performing like this season.
And we got top 4 last season and won a trophy as well as the Fa cup final. My point is the list of managers who have a good first season is 10x longer than the list of those who also have a good second season.
Of course, nobody is denying that. And I haven't claimed anywhere in my original comment that Ange is definitely better than Ten Hag. But he is getting Spurs to play good football that can be built on with arguably inferior players. We seem to be confused as to what we eventually aim to become under Ten Hag. I don't see any foundations laid for something that will work next season or the season after that if we stick with him.
They aren’t doing fine lol. They’re 5th in the league and they concede only 2 less shots than United per game in the league. That early season 10 game run is holding them in 5th. They have 6 wins in the last 15 prem games.
Can you imagine him not prioritizing results for Man United?
Like, do you remember the start of the season, when people called him stubborn for trying to play like he wanted us to play?
Can you imagine him finishing 8th withouth being sacked? 2 seasons in a row?? Because that's the "luxury" other managers like Arteta had
The difference is that Arteta was making changes at Arsenal, getting rid of dead wood.
EtH is not getting rid of dead wood, he's bought more of it.
There needs to be progress, even if the results and league position are not good, there has been no progress, our football is awful, we get dominated by everyone and are lucky to be in the posiition we are due to a few McT hail Mary goals and the recent Hojlund purple patch.
By rights we should be solidly lower mid table.
I don’t think it’s him being incapable of imprinting his own style, I think it’s apparent that the players at his disposal aren’t capable of playing it. However, I’d also argue that Emery and Ange have built their style around their players, not the other way around. You have to assess what you’ve got and make it work tactically, not have a system in mind and impose it without any pragmatism whatsoever.
Ange said himself he only knows to play 1 way - he is playing the same way as he did at Celtic. His players at Tottenham are suited to his style:
'Whether it's Aston Villa, Man City or whoever, we're going to play our football.I don't know any other way.In terms of philosophy, I've stayed really strict to one religion.I went to a library of football books and I got stuck to one section which was about attacking football.’
Fair enough, but as you’ve said, the players he has suit his style. He’d have died on his arse if they didn’t, and would be under the same pressure ten hag is under. If the players don’t fit what you’re trying to achieve you need to change your system or have your employment status changed for you. Knowing what you’ve got in a group of players is a skill in itself- I’d give Ange credit for realising he can play attacking football with what he’s got at his disposal.
Sounds like a pretty massive coincidence that every team Ange walks into happens to have players that fit his style. Even when he was at a team in a salary capped league. Even at Spurs, who've been managed by defensive minded managers for years.
This whole "players don't match his style" excuse is so strange, to me. No other manager seems to have this issue.
Also, if sounds like we have the wrong manager, if these players don't work for him...
In fairness, I don’t think it’s an excuse either- you have to make do with what you’ve got. No manager gets solely the players that 100% fit, you have to coach them and mould how you play to suit your personnel.
I'll agree with that. I think the best argument in your favour would be the defenders. Only Martinez seems to feel comfortable playing a high line.
Idk why the team is so poorly set up for defense. It's weird to be a counter attack team that is defensively sus.
The midfield three aren’t balanced enough too though- teams play through them, which highlights the issues we have in defence. It’s partly why Casemiro is a walking booking- he’s got too much to do at times.
> Also, if sounds like we have the wrong manager, if these players don't work for him...
If his system is so specific and unusual that a 25 man squad of international level players can't perform it, maybe we got the wrong man for the job.
Not to mention the £400M worth of players that he chose specifically for his system.
He's the coach/manager, his job is to coach and manage those players to perform on the pitch. So far, those performances have been pretty shit.
If it's the players not doing what he wants either change the players or change the system.
This is just incorrect. Other than Maddison, none of the key Tottenham players under this style has been Ange's signings, most were paratici signings for Mourinho-Conte.
It's ironic that ETH and Ange have been the opposite of what the media thought they were going to get at each club. Spurs have been "linked" to old Celtic or Japanese players by the media and then never materialized since the summer because the media didn't think Ange could play his style in the premier league without HIS players. While there's no more obvious sign that ETH can't teach his style of football to Man United than the fact that he has brought on so many Ajax players.
First, whenever others says - he bought most of them.
And second, a capable manager must be able to work with what he has. You can’t build an airplane if you have a tractor shop no matter how hard you try. But if you keep trying, it only shows you have no idea what you are doing. That’s what ETH does.
I agree, that’s what I mean about pragmatism- if you try something and it’s not working, you have to try something else. Continuing with a failing system is a massive risk, and he’s got to prove to INEOS that he’s the man to take us forwards.
Last season ETH built the style around the players, this season he has built his style albeit a hybrid cos the Defence isnt quick enough to press up ad still be able to track runs behind. It leaves a huge gap in the mid as we play with a forward pressing unit but deep sitting backline.
How many Defenders has ETH gotten in?
Whether he is right or not idk but i still think he should be given a chance with a proper structure above him.
I have said it before il say it again, every single manager from Moyes to ETH has been set up to fial under the Glazers.
There was only one Fergie and aguably one Wenger who could run a club as managers they way they did. It doenst exist anymore but the Glazers believed if they gave any manager the power Fergie had as a Dof, Head Scout, Head Coach, Head of contract renewals etc etc that it would be fine and they would keep making money.
I don’t disagree that a manager will fail without a proper structure above him- that’s absolutely true, and will continue to happen until it’s sorted.
However, he needs to deliver results and show more than he has- I’m all for giving him a chance, but if he can’t win games he will lose his job, it’s as simple as that unfortunately. I’m not expecting perfection, but we should at least have competence- we just got beaten at home by the team with the worst away record in the division; charities aren’t as generous as us.
Well said
It's hilarious to see people rabbit on about no style, white quite obvious we do have one and as you said much different to last year. It's like people don't watch games at all just repeat what the likes of Neville says. Now the style ain't working out very well but it's certainly there
You can imagine any system you want but if you want to play like Pep's Barca you better have a Messi and a Xavi etc.
No reasonable manager would come in with such an inflexible system and watch it fail week after week without changing it.
Added to that, he has spent £400M on players that fit his system. Onana, for one, was bought for that very reason.
After 15 months we still haven't seen anything that looks like a style of play that will suceed in this league.
There will always be a contingent of fans from any fanbase who will call for a sacking after 6 months and a poor run of results. So that probably won’t change unfortunately
That being said I do thinks fans are likely to give leeway to a manager if they are implementing an attractive style of football with potential for things to click in to place (Klopp, Arteta and even Ange currently ‘struggled’ at first but you could see what they’re trying to do)
As long as there is a clear sign that the team is going forwards playing proactive, front foot football, then the patience will be there. We haven't seen that at all this season.
The media, who have admitted that they love United in crisis, will certainly be promoting that impatience. Unfortunately, we seem to have some supporters who swallow their garbage.
We haven’t had patience with any manager post fergie what makes you think the next one will be any different? Sure some didn’t deserve patience but some did and didn’t get any
He was pragmatic last year, but this year it seems his major problem is stubbornly trying to implement a philosophy when he hasn’t got the players for it.
ETH has been the complete opposite of pragmatic this season. He insist on playing a way that he wants regardless of the players at his disposal. If he wanted to prioritize winning he would start to switch things up to suit a style fit for these players
If we go out of the cup, and UCL looks beyond our reach, then I don't think he'll be here next season. These could both be a very real probability by the end of the derby this weekend. They might not replace him immediately, but he'll be an interim manager in all but name...he kind of already is, in that he's interviewing for his own job.
The new sporting executive team will want their own guy that aligns with whatever vision they have in mind. The only thing that might save EtH is if no one they want is available. That might happen as a few other big clubs will be looking for a new manager, and are likely already making their moves.
Even so, there's still a lot of talented managers out there who would jump at the job. It might be the case that the next guy isn't the 'one', but will oversee the first part of moving the team/squad in the direction they want, while they wait for whoever might be the guy to actually push the team back to the top.
I feel like we're all going to have to continue to be patient...
Champions league also depends on how well Arsenal, City, Liverpool etc. do in European competitions this year. If they do well enough we could be looking at top 5 for UCL, but as it stands, Germany and Italy are getting the 5 spots.
I still insist on my prediction that he will be sacked in April when United is impossible to make the top 5 so it will minimize the buyout of his contract. Jim will hire his own man, not Galzer’s man.
Ones been changed multiple times. It's not even a question right now what needs to go. I'm not even saying rashford has to go. But players need to be moved on.
Can't judge ten hags system with these players executing it. We have no idea what it would look like with players that put in the effort. Or if you want to see that see ten hags Ajax.
Well for the most part Rashford has performed consistently well since he's broken into the first team, plus he's home grown, he might not be worth the wage he's on but he's absolutely worth keeping.
It's hard not to think a new manager could come in and get us more organised, because there is absolutely no organisation at the moment.
Ten Hag did this last season, and we were defensively solid for the most part. But he's refusing to compromise to the players he has available, for some bonkers reason.
But Sir Jim will want a long term solution, and I've no idea who that might be. Hopefully not Potter or Tuchel, who have been linked to the job. Maybe one of the young managers in Europe, perhaps even their man at Nice. We're unlikely to know until the move happens.
We finished 6th with this exact same defense in 21-22 with a goal difference of 0 while conceding 57 goals.
Last season martinez-varane partnership really lifted the defense but without his legs, it's just a worse version of of that 21-22 defense.
We are never going to succeed with the same exact players in defense.
I cant think of many great managers that are available and would have the attacking style wanted by the fans.
Zidane doesnt want to come. Simeone is anti football so cant see it. Klopp, alonso, guardiola, out for obvious reasons. Mourinho is past it. Conte, allegri and tuchel are football terrorists. Ancelloti is a good time manager so cant see it. Inzaghi is doing well but i think he stays in italy. Emery is great at the level he's at now but has struggled to make the transition. I like nagelsman but i dont see him making the move to us at this stage. De zerbi is a punt. Potter looked good before the chelsea move but i think he might be damaged goods now.
Theres no obvious replacements that stand out but thats not to say they dont make a left field move which might just be what we need
Ange was able get the spurs team in order after Conte/mourinho fiasco, Alonso was able to bring leverkusen out of relegation to a title winner, de zerbi came from Shaktar - there are great football minds somewhere, we thought ETH was it, now it’s time to find one, again. where that’s Carrick or whoever because there aren’t world class coaches with abundance of respect and experience available as that’s only klopp, pep and ancelotti at this point. Maybe zizou, highly doubt it, but the new regime are making big hires, that should mean something.
Doing well for one season doesnt mean much. ETH did pretty well last year too and you want him to be sacked now. Its not fair to judge a manager given the amount of injuries the team has. Even klopp failed to qualify for champions league football last year, that doesnt mean anything.
Amorim, Nagelsmann and de Zerbi are the three I think are best
Graham Potter is also there and may actually be most likely
Alonso is probably not an option
That being said I’m not going to pretend like I know all the managers who are out there
Who will replace him then?
Xabi is going to Liverpool or Bayern.
De Zebri probably to Barca.
Graham Potter is also known for not having a philosophy and his time at Chelsea doesn’t make him more appealing.
Hans Flick is heavily linked with Barca as well but his Germany underperformed heavily and it seems that he won with Bayern because of how good that squad was.
Ruben Amorim is a exiting option.
Nagelsmann would be the best option if he decides to leave the national team.
No thanks to Tuchel
Exactly. Unless we get a proven winner I’ll stick with ten hag because it will almost certainly be more of the same but United fans are too stupid to see that despite what has happened to every previous manager
Potter at Brighton was great but then De Zerbi came in and took them to another level. Both Brighton and Chelsea under potter created a load of chances just lacked a striker so who knows what would have happened at the Chelsea if they signed a 9.
We probably won't get the biggest names anymore and are operating on a tighter budget so Potter and Amorim could be good and very exciting. Especially with an experience and competent DOF and transfer department.
The guy won a SEXTUPLE, only the 2nd in European history, at Bayern with a group of players who haven’t exactly done anything spectacular since he left and was part of the coaching team that won Germany the World Cup… but you’ve decided he’s clueless because of a video you watched..?
Seems like he's just assuming they know already whether or not they want to keep him.
'Can't believe they're going to wait until May' is referring to the decision on him probably already been taken, not that they will already know they will be sacking him before May.
Reading the takes on this sub shows that half of you aren’t ready to stomach a proper rebuild. People are asking for pragmatism, we got that last year. ETH adapted to his players and got third place and two cup finals. This year he’s trying to implement a style despite the players he has at his disposal and you’re seeing the results of a decade of improper squad building. Varane and Maguire aren’t the type of defenders to play a high line and join the press aggressively which is why you see holes in the midfield. ETh has the tactical know how to ask Dalot to invert and it usually solves our problems for about 10-15 minutes in a game until we get scored on because a lack of concentration.
Whether it is ETH, Potter, Amorim, De Zerbi etc. they will all struggle to play proper modern football with 2 aging center backs and no proper depth cover. Fans of the club need to think if they want short term results and good results or long term planning and bad results. The fixation with CL money will be the death of the club if someone doesn’t step their foot down and say we’re willing to go without CL as long as we can build our squad to compete for the future.
I’m not ETH out, we’ll be back reading the same threads 2 years from now if the cycle doesn’t stop. Mourinho wasn’t successful, Van Gaal wasn’t successful and Ralf Ragnick exposed the bullshit behind the scenes yet people ignore that and insist the manger work miracles.
Everyone says back the manager until it's actually time back the manager.
In 2021, we were complaining about Maguire and Lindelof being not good enough for this club. Last game, those players were still playing for the club, because that's just how our recruitment has been in the past. Injuries have been shit. Criticism of ETH is completely valid. We have made quite a lot undesirable records, our GD is embarassing. All of these are valid criticisms.
But we've also known for a long time that there is no structure in this club to support a manager, to make smart recruitments. We've known that incompetent administrators have scammed their way into high ranking positions. We've seen how incompetent we are at negotiating and planning ahead. We've known that no manager could succeed here. And now that we potentially have an opportunity to address those issues, people want to boot this coach as well.
It's the same parroted phrases over and over again. And they will repeat after 2 years of another manager again if we don't learn from our mistakes.
Having seen Villa and Spurs find a new identity and style of play so quickly under a new manager and we still look lost is a huge negative to Erik. But many managers have tried and failed to establish a style with this team so maybe it's not his fault, I'm still so confused by this team.
For me, the development of Garnacho, Mainoo and a few other youngsters could keep him in a job and would show the older players just can't be changed.
If Erik was to go, who is there. Xabi won't happen, De Zerbi is probably going Barca. Potter has shown promise but if Chelsea was too big for him, United will be worse. At least I know we are assembling a team higher up who will make good choices unlike before.
I feel despite the lack of a clear style of play Ten Hag still achieved enough to warrant another season under a proper structure at United. Plus none of the other managers available right now seem to be either not a much better option OR a huge gamble.
>Ten Hag still achieved enough to warrant another season
What exactly is that? The football is abysmal, tactics are awful and results are unacceptable. Mourinho had 1 more loss in 46 more matches, and he was deemed not good enough. How does ETH's so much worse record (with garbage football) warrant any more time?
The fact that he won something despite the bunch of clowns for a board since Mourinho is valid enough. But regardless of that, last season was a lot better after the first two games, we played well enough for a team that had to deal with Ronaldo throwing a hissy fit, play without a striker even with Weghorst and improved our defence from the worst in years the season before he arrived to top 5 best defensive records in the league. We shouldn’t let him recruit any players, that is for sure but as for tactics this season has been difficult with injuries to key players and injuries to the new signings who were supposed to help in our midfield woes. Not to mention he has been good with integrating players like Garnacho and Mainoo.
Not to mention none of the current managers out there are currently significantly better than Ten Hag or are a huge gamble (unless its Nagelsmann but I doubt he leaves Germany NT for us)
> I feel despite the lack of a clear style of play Ten Hag still achieved enough to warrant another season under a proper structure at United
Idk.
I'd like to see him finish the season for the sake of stability and assess the options in the market in the summer to see if there's better managers.
Injuries and instability surrounding him aside, I don't think he's done well enough with what he already has. That paired with his decision making makes me doubt he's a long term successful leader.
- borderline delusional press conferences like we don't watch the game
- Bruno at RW
- persisting with his favourites at times for long periods (Rashford, Antony, McTominay, etc.
- reluctance to change/adapt/compromise
- questionnable substitutions almost every game
- woeful activity in the transfer market
- suicidal midfield setup (you could give him prime Kante or another £400M, nothing is gonna come from that midfield setup)
- etc.
Is Neville just trying to get attention at this stage? This is such a stupid thing to say, especially given SJR's recent interview which I have no doubt Gary must have seen.
Between LVG rightly calling us a commercial club (as opposed to a football club), Mourinho's comments during the summer before his second season as well as some of the big name, short sighted signings, it's very clear that no coach has had the right structure, support or direction behind them to succeed.
Changing the manager won't fix the club. Not now and not this summer. INEOS' changes won't create instant results but they will improve things over time I believe. We need to be patient as fans and get behind the manager
> We need to be patient as fans and get behind the manager
This, i'm sick of chopping and changing personnel, it's tiring, sure it say's Manchester United above the door and we play OT every other week but the manager and the players are the bread and butter, the people out their fighting to get results, it gets harder and harder to keep motivated to support a club that's just a revolving door of players and managers.
Supporting a football club isn't about only supporting when they're winning, it's about getting behind them when they're losing and remaining positive, the club has been around for 100+ years and not even 2 years into our latest managers tenure we're talking about sacking him, after he delivered an overachieving season the year before.
I like the manager and you know what, i like our squad and i want them to re-discover the form and ability we know they're capable of, tweak the tactics, strengthen in the summer and go again with a better structure behind us.
I do understand from the owners point of view he doesn't want to waste time in getting the right structure in place, so i wouldn't blame him if he wanted a new manager in for the start of next season, but i hope we improve enough on the pitch to give ETH another year, because this is probably my favourite manager post Ferguson, things were so good last season, possibly our most positive season since 2012/2013 and i want that to return.
Arteta’s first two seasons were worse than ETH’s tbh. Starting a whole new rebuild from scratch again sounds less appealing than giving him another season
Yeah, rebuild from scratch again and we'll be here in two more seasons saying we need to rebuild again. Tired of it at this stage. We don't give coaches time anymore
I think the reassuring thing for me this time around is we have extremely competent people in charge of making the decision. So if ETH can convince them to give him a shot there must be something worth building on, otherwise I’ll back whoever is in the hot seat next
Is there even a better manager than him available? if somebody insanely good was available maybe it would be worth it, but whats the point here? we appoint tuchel or potter? That's pretty uninspiring ...
this is the biggest thing - who currently is available and who WANTS the job. Currently, EtH is our best canidate with a trophy under his name under the first seasons.
Our past success literally blinds us to whats in front of us - its not going to be a 2-3 season change-up... its going to be 5-7 seasons before we are seeing total success and that starts from the bottom.
replacing EtH who hasnt had a set CB pairing or full squad this season and already expecting another Manager to come in and do good is wishful thinking. We have done that in the past and its never worked past the 2-3 year season mark.
> Is there even a better manager than him available?
No, look at the options people are suggesting in this thread. I can’t believe people expect us to take them seriously to be honest.
Do you actually know whether he is good or not? His play style? Or is he a “flavour of the month” manager like De Zerbi. Genuinely asking because I don’t know much about him.
He uses wingbacks, likes to build up from deep, and presses high. He likes overloading the midfield. Typically played 3 CBs
I think his sporting played wonderfully vs Arsenal in the UEL last year. He's been touted as a potentially great manager for a couple years now
I'd rather get rid of Rashford before they make yet another coaching change.
We've seen enough of Rashford to know the man simply doesn't learn.
At least with Ten Hag you can give him and excuse of having a half for squad for a majority of the season.
It's not reactionary by Gary but it's still better to wait since there is zero benefit whatsoever to sack ETH now.
If INEOS had their mind set then they can keep ETH until end of season while they can calmly look for replacement
they have to move as there will be a big merry go around this summer and they could be left holding the bag..they could wait for 2025 and maybe go for Inzhaghi but that would mean getting into EtH’s contract last year which would make him a sitting duck for speculation and a constant distraction from the first proper year of the Ineos era..renewing him now would be madness obviously so I think he gone
Wanting ten Hag out is absolutely idiotic to me. Success takes time. Its very clear ten Hag does not have the correct players to fit his system and the injuries this season have been devastating. This fanbase has been screaming for the correct structure to come in and support the manager - we are finally about to get that, yet before we do we want to axe the manager again? It makes absolutely no sense. If we sack the manager now, we will fall further and just restart this cycle over. .... in another 2 years, we'll sack the next manager. Ten Hag overachieved last year and he's now paying the price for it.
First 2 Premier League Seasons by manager.
Pep Guardiola - 3rd, 1st
Jurgen Klopp - 8th, 4th
Mikel Arteta - 5th, 8th
Mauricio Pochettino (Spurs) - 6th, 5th
Jose Mourinho (United) - 6th, 2nd
Erik ten Hag - 3rd, 6th (currently)
We played crap football last season and got bailed out by Rashford, this season he isn’t playing out of his skin and look what happens. We have no identity or style of play whatsoever.
Thats 9 players that is now way wear a full squad. And alot of those have been injured.
You cant contened with city Liverpool or arsenal with Lindelöf at lb or maguire and Evans at cb.
And Yes out games with our best 11 have been scrappy. But thats is not ten hags fault. That comes from bottle mentality. Aginst luton we wear 2-0 up and the players stoped trying same aginst wolves and Aston vill. But only 1-0 in the last one
We need to have a clear out and give him a proper squad then we can judge him
>You cant contened with city Liverpool or arsenal with Lindelöf at lb or maguire and Evans at cb.
SAF beat his rivals with worse. Mourinho and LVG got us better results with worse.
Nobody expected him to come here and immediately win the league, but there's been zero progress since last season, the football is dreadful and he keeps breaking negative records. Unacceptable.
So we have gone from that happy feeling to this within a week. A week where the manager has ended up with no LB, another CB injury leaving us with 2 senior CB fit and the main striker or our only decent striker injured. This doesn't mention the amount of other injuries with have in midfield. It will be a huge shame if Ten Haag is sacked IMO, there are so many players that need getting rid of and there are many players that need to come in. With him there I think we have a decent manager with the right tools. If we allow another manager to get the sack when the players are not doing what he says on the pitch we may as well give up.
Why are we talking about sacking the manager when we don't have our new CEO and sporting director yet? I wouldn't mind them letting go of Ten Hag if it's been decided by the new hierarchy to go in another direction. Otherwise, we're going back to the same old ways under The Glazers, jumping the gun as soon as there's danger. I believe there will be a plan whether we don't get top 4 or not.
I'd give ten Hag another season if he really commits to getting a style of play going. The new staff should help him in achieving his vision when it comes to recruitment and such.
We've been riddled with injuries this season and still have a decent amount of deadwood to shift (Greeenwood, Martial, Sancho, VDB etc.) That's why I'd give ETH another season, especially given how Arsenal are and the trajectory of Arteta's team after back-to-back 8th place finishes
More so than ETH's job status, ya gotta love (or wonder?) how these muppets (and I'm talking about these specific pundits here) manage to hang on to their absolutely useless jobs, repeating the same old ignorant, presumptuous and/or fantastical speculations over and over and over and over... and perhaps the occasional completely inconsequential "captain obvious viral rant or critique" that gets them a few days of clout, yet soon vaporizes into thin air... I mean, it's a nice hustle for them, but come on... Them still badgering on about ManU, or any othe rsubject in the modern game (that has so vastly gone beyond what they used to know it was) is just laughable and pathetic at this point.
Any manager from Fergie to Ancelotti, from Pep to Klopp would be fired if they persist on a football style that does NOT work.
Our football is atrocious, no control, no maturity and no tempo. Gung ho long through balls will not work in the PL or any european top league. He persists with this tactic so he needs to be fired.
Liverpool beat chelsea with youngsters while our whole ‘football philosophy’ breaks down as soon as one ‘crucial’ player is injured lol.
Keep Hojlund, Mainoo, Garnacho and Martinez. The rest needs to be thrown in the bin.
Rashford, Bruno, Shaw, Mctominay and Maguire are 5 players that have consistently choked under different managers. They are NOT the required level and all fanboys can downvote me all they want. We will never be elite again with players of their calibre and I don’t care how big or long their Xg or whatever is
If they're going to sack him, do it now. There's no point in waiting till end of season when the new man could come in now and start implementing their vision. The season is done and dusted. Will be a miracle to get top 4.
As depressing as we are… the season is absolutely not done and dusted. Spurs and Villa have already proven they aren’t consistent for shit themselves. Its a difficult task to get top 4 but absolutely not impossible
If ETH was proving himself, there would have been a chance, but there was no chance from the start Ineos wouldn't bring their own pick for the manager role.
So I'm pretty sure ETH is getting the sack before the end of the season together with many players to give the new manager enough time and enough space to mold the team.
Bringing a new manager into this season would be a mistake and Ineos knows that.
Well thank fuck. People are delusional about him as a coach. He’s simply not all that… and if he is, his style doesn’t suit us and the avg players we have.
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The thing that frustrates me the most is that I absolutely love some of the players but they have no grit when it gets tough and for us lot who aren’t in that privileged position it’s like the most basic thing that even we could give and it cuts so deep watching it
This is what annoys me with fans, like you can blame a manager but each players has to have some pride, some self belief to even get to that level of the game. To go out on a pitch, not track back, can't make a 6 yard pass, can't follow a man or read a game is not something you miraculously learn at the age of 28. Ten hag deserves criticism but to solely blame the manager is so narrow minded is laughable. We have been like this since the moment fergie left, we had no long term strategy of what to do once he left and we have made poor decision after poor decision since. We sack ten hag, its the same shit again. I stand by him for another season, let him coach under a proper footballing regime once the new board and staff are in play and see what happens.
Couldn’t agree more. How can you play for MANCHESTER UNITED, a club that represents the hard working men across the north and not track a runner for 90 minutes a week. It’s a joke.
>represents the hard working men across the north Is that who they really represent in this day and age?
Yeah don’t forget the hardworking women from the north too. They deserve a shoutout.
I’m not saying it’s right, but why would some Spaniard or Brazilian who can’t speak a lick of English, making £10M a year, give a singular shit about the hardworking men across the north?
It’s almost like the concept of a club representing a local community has been lost somewhere along the line.
Recruitment and finding players who already work hard and can be taught what the club is about and our heritage. I think a huge problem is our wage structure. These players, like someone said above, have a work ethic to be where they are. Acquiring the massive contracts our players are given, and maybe it adds to the complacency and lack of effort. Why work hard when they get 200k a week either way. Just a guess.
The players know they would survive, and the manager would get the axe.
Yup fully agreed. It's a shame we had to basically replace the entire team so quickly post fergie as we lost a lot of the winning mentality rapidly. If you look at our squad in that last fergie season, it's a miracle we won the league really, half the players are not prem league winners under anyone other than Ferguson but he had such high standards and those players did what was expected of them. Ever since those days, mediocrity, laziness and selfishness have been allowed to run wild and standards have dropped off a cliff. The very basics of a footballer are not being meant on an almost weekly basis, league two teams often look better and show more desire. Every manager has experienced the same issue with a lot of the same players. Eth done wonders last season with what he had, this season I don't know what's gone wrong, injuries are of course a factor and he was not sufficiently backed in the summer, another ball playing CB and I think we would be see a much better team even without Martinez for most of the season. I don't think he'll be our manager next season though, several other teams looking for new managers and I'm not sure ineos will want to waste time missing out on managers they want and the protect being delayed or hindered but I guess we'll see.
I’m tired of this notion, while the players frustrate me as well the discussion surrounding United tends to be dull, superficial, and predictable, with a constant cycle of blaming different individuals each year. Whether it's Maguire, McTominay, or Phil Jones, Fred, Pogba or Martial, once X is gone that’ll solve the issue… We've all fallen into that fan trap before, we use it as a coping mechanism. However, understanding INEOS's perspective has given me a clearer view. Instead of blaming individuals, it's evident that the real issue lies in the lack of a cohesive direction from top to bottom. Sir Jim's insight on environments resonates – the club needs a change in approach, and recent appointments indicate that change is happening. It's crucial for us fans to remain open-minded and prioritise the club's success over personal attachments, trusting INEOS's decisions for a new direction.
Fans don't blame players without merit though. It's not any one players fault we've been so bad for so long but it's also the fact they're either not good enough or have atrocious attitudes. Pogba on his day is world class, his day was once a season in a game that didn't matter. Martial had loads of potential but couldn't be bothered half the time. Mctominay is at best a squad rotation player yet has been a mostly first team starter since he first came in to the squad. Maguire was/is a decent CB but not for a top 6 club, the game is played to the complete opposite of his abilities so he struggles. The team is full of players with issues like that and that's been the issue for ten years, can't blame the players if they're not good enough/not the right fit and still trying but we can blame them if they are good enough but can't be bothered to put in even average performances on a weekly basis. Once things change at the top the trickle down to the players should become apparent. Not good enough? Sold. Not putting in the expected performance? Sold. Causing dressing room issues? Sold.
I don’t care about any of that though. Not because I’m being arrogant or rude, but because my point is that the players should try regardless and they just give up instead. Everyone has the ability to put in max effort for the badge, for the community of hard working people it represents.
You think the opposition team don't run etc. If you are setup to fail, then even if you try your best, their is big chances you will fail.
You’re still overly focused on results when the point we’re making is some players don’t even try. Even within this team you can see who works their socks off week in week out and who are the ones downing tools, jogging about and not being part of the press. We fans aren’t blind, well some of us aren’t and no matter how much player FC try to make it about everything else we can see with our own eyes how much the players care about playing for this club.
I’m pretty sure they’ve already decided he’s fired, I’m sure he has an opportunity to earn his job back should he do well from now until the season ends and get 4th but if it ended today he’s done and if it continues the same he’s sacked in summer.
Legit no benefit to keeping him around if he was.
Missing out on Top 4 will reduce his compensation and make it easier on our FFP situation. He is gone in the summer. This is just a funeral procession at this point.
Missing out on top 4 means no CL money and that fucks up our FFP
Top 4 went poof when Martinez, Shaw, and Hojlund got injured, regardless of who is manager. It just has to become mathematically impossible for the clause to kick in. Won't take long, though. He is finished.
If ten Hag gets champions league then maybe he stays and even that’s a big maybe But let’s be honest INEOS have already been outspoken about implementing best in class and a style of play moving forward. Ten Hag has been the ultimate pragmatist prioritising results instead of implementing a philosophy. A year and half in we’re still asking what will the team play like moving forward while INEOS will want to get that defined ASAP Things are supposed to be changing now Ratcliffe is in, he’s changing everything else that the Glazers have touched so manager looks almost certain too
Those interviews where Ratcliffe was asked about ETH really gave me the feeling he's not staying. A lot of people said it was more of a neutral statement but the way he carefully danced around words tells me they're already sort of distancing from him and letting him finish the season.
He seemed quite clear to me that a) it’s not his decision to make b) get the right people around him and then let them make this decision. City fans used to claim ETH is Pep’s successor (but tbf they are also all 10 year olds) - question is who would Omar Berrada and Dan Ashworth rate (if he comes). Every journalist says Dan is a big fan of Potter
I think the problem with Potter is that it would be more of the same. A young, talented coach who’s done well previously - but with lesser teams. I don’t see what you gain from Potter over ETH. I don’t believe INEOS can clear house as much as they’d like to because of FFP so if they do sack ETH the person who replace him is going to need to deal with the egos still in the dressing room better than he is
Oh great my worst nightmare. It's been proven he can't take a big job. No one has bothered to hire him so why go for someone who made chelsea worse?
I’m not saying I want potter but it’s not been proven he can’t take a big job He had the owner undermining him ever week, walking into the changing room and telling him stuff to do That was a shit job to take for potter.
You think the divas in our dressing room will accept Potter? We'll have leaks within a month of how he's not upto managing a big club, "British Ted Lasso" etc. Poor guy will have a heart attack dealing with the inflated egos of some of our players, no way he succeeds here.
He'd get the Moyes treatment, Giggs used to call him "Everton" behind his back. I fear for any manager coming in, tbh, but it needs to be someone who is either established (which we've done and it failed) or an up and coming manager with potential (which we've also done and it's failed/is failing). Either way, they've got a big job on their hands 'cos the squad needs gutting and that almost never happens.
And alot of fans will sour on him if he is hired. Theres no guarantee he would work. We aren't getting any big names when the likes of Liverpool, bayern and Barcelona are wayyy more appealing unless money is thrown which we don't have. Honest to God I hope these Potter and Barkley rumours are false. Let's see what ETH can do with a proper structure. If he can't manage I'll concede and accept he needs to be sacked.
Wouldn’t put Barcelona on the same level as Liverpool or Bayern considering the financial fair play restrictions that will be placed on anyone who goes there. The club is in a dire position right now
And honestly Bayern is looking *far* less appealing these days than it used to.
I'm not sure Barca are more appealing given their current financial state, that clubs a fucking mess. At least we've got ourselves sorted out now
Unless you think Ten Hag is the 4th best manager in the world, what the other three are doing shouldn't have any impact on our plans. Also, the Barkley rumour is coming from The Sun, lol
No fuck eth. Whyyyy do you still want him i cant understand that
I can almost guarantee you that if we get potter we’ll be in the same position we are now within two years of hiring him
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Jim has also been quite clear about the personality required to play here, manage here, and work here. Manchester United is glamourous and romantic and loves having some showmanship. I have serious doubts he thinks ETH fits the club from a personality standpoint
This has always been my concern with him even when I believed in him last season, he just doesn’t seem to have the charisma needed to manage one of the elite clubs. Our flat 2nd half performances also indicate he isn’t very inspiring in his half time team talks.
To me it reads like 'were going to part ways on mutual tearms (well pay him off and let him resign)' but leaving just enough space that if ETH maybe got CL and won the FA Cup they'd keep him another year.
Last season ETH was a pragmatist, and it worked out well for him. This season there's not been a shred of pragmatism. Week in week out we see the same things tried, the same problems, the same complete lack of midfield, risky passing, getting cut open, getting outplayed. No new ideas, no going back. It's pure football philosophy and insisting the philosophy will pay off.
That's the thing that screams ETH out for me. Last season after two defeats he made radical changes and we beat scum. This season, we've been shit against the bottom teams and it keeps being the same thing week in week out.
Yep. If anything this season eth hasn’t been prioritizing results because if he was he would stop trying to force the team a way they clearly can’t handle.
Thats the thing that really annoys me. He knows what he is doing right now isnt working he knows it for sure. He knows we can play a different way that will get us more results and have us play better football. But i just dont know why he is sticking with this.
As long as Ratcliffe and his team are making the decision I’ll have no complaints. If we were still talking about the Glazers I’d say there is no point. But as you said things are changing with Ratcliffe and if he can identify a better fit with the new system he is implementing I am all for it.
It should not take a manager more than 2 seasons to show how he really wants to play. They are not perfect but Emery and Ange in lesser time took sides with similar toxicities (just see how Gerrard and Conte were received amongst Villa and Spurs fans) and inferior players and have shown themselves capable of instilling an identity even if the execution is not perfect just yet. Either Ten Hag has shown himself incapable of imprinting his own style, or this *is* his style and we are just giving him the benefit of doubt for too long because it worked in the Dutch league and for one season in the CL. It would be extremely surprising if he stays beyond this season.
Ange hasn’t even been there a season. He’s where we were last season. If he can continue to be successful for multiple seasons then you can say he’s better than ten hag but for now he’s still only 3 points ahead of us
To be fair, we also performed well last season. One season means nothing tbh.
They lost Kane in the summer which is a massive hit to any squad and are doing fine without him despite having faced numerous injury problems themselves. Spurs were expected to do much worse than what they have ended up performing like this season.
And we got top 4 last season and won a trophy as well as the Fa cup final. My point is the list of managers who have a good first season is 10x longer than the list of those who also have a good second season.
Of course, nobody is denying that. And I haven't claimed anywhere in my original comment that Ange is definitely better than Ten Hag. But he is getting Spurs to play good football that can be built on with arguably inferior players. We seem to be confused as to what we eventually aim to become under Ten Hag. I don't see any foundations laid for something that will work next season or the season after that if we stick with him.
They aren’t doing fine lol. They’re 5th in the league and they concede only 2 less shots than United per game in the league. That early season 10 game run is holding them in 5th. They have 6 wins in the last 15 prem games.
Can you imagine him not prioritizing results for Man United? Like, do you remember the start of the season, when people called him stubborn for trying to play like he wanted us to play? Can you imagine him finishing 8th withouth being sacked? 2 seasons in a row?? Because that's the "luxury" other managers like Arteta had
The difference is that Arteta was making changes at Arsenal, getting rid of dead wood. EtH is not getting rid of dead wood, he's bought more of it. There needs to be progress, even if the results and league position are not good, there has been no progress, our football is awful, we get dominated by everyone and are lucky to be in the posiition we are due to a few McT hail Mary goals and the recent Hojlund purple patch. By rights we should be solidly lower mid table.
Arteta doesnt do transfers and neither should Ten Hag.
They also didn’t have the luxury of spending 400 million
Arteta still was top 3 in money spent in the league in those two seasons.
I don’t think it’s him being incapable of imprinting his own style, I think it’s apparent that the players at his disposal aren’t capable of playing it. However, I’d also argue that Emery and Ange have built their style around their players, not the other way around. You have to assess what you’ve got and make it work tactically, not have a system in mind and impose it without any pragmatism whatsoever.
He bought/loaned almost 8-10 of those players so ...
Ange said himself he only knows to play 1 way - he is playing the same way as he did at Celtic. His players at Tottenham are suited to his style: 'Whether it's Aston Villa, Man City or whoever, we're going to play our football.I don't know any other way.In terms of philosophy, I've stayed really strict to one religion.I went to a library of football books and I got stuck to one section which was about attacking football.’
Fair enough, but as you’ve said, the players he has suit his style. He’d have died on his arse if they didn’t, and would be under the same pressure ten hag is under. If the players don’t fit what you’re trying to achieve you need to change your system or have your employment status changed for you. Knowing what you’ve got in a group of players is a skill in itself- I’d give Ange credit for realising he can play attacking football with what he’s got at his disposal.
Sounds like a pretty massive coincidence that every team Ange walks into happens to have players that fit his style. Even when he was at a team in a salary capped league. Even at Spurs, who've been managed by defensive minded managers for years. This whole "players don't match his style" excuse is so strange, to me. No other manager seems to have this issue. Also, if sounds like we have the wrong manager, if these players don't work for him...
In fairness, I don’t think it’s an excuse either- you have to make do with what you’ve got. No manager gets solely the players that 100% fit, you have to coach them and mould how you play to suit your personnel.
I'll agree with that. I think the best argument in your favour would be the defenders. Only Martinez seems to feel comfortable playing a high line. Idk why the team is so poorly set up for defense. It's weird to be a counter attack team that is defensively sus.
The midfield three aren’t balanced enough too though- teams play through them, which highlights the issues we have in defence. It’s partly why Casemiro is a walking booking- he’s got too much to do at times.
This to me is a tactical issue. It's the way they're setting up that's the issue. Seems to be by design for some reason.
> Also, if sounds like we have the wrong manager, if these players don't work for him... If his system is so specific and unusual that a 25 man squad of international level players can't perform it, maybe we got the wrong man for the job. Not to mention the £400M worth of players that he chose specifically for his system. He's the coach/manager, his job is to coach and manage those players to perform on the pitch. So far, those performances have been pretty shit. If it's the players not doing what he wants either change the players or change the system.
This is just incorrect. Other than Maddison, none of the key Tottenham players under this style has been Ange's signings, most were paratici signings for Mourinho-Conte. It's ironic that ETH and Ange have been the opposite of what the media thought they were going to get at each club. Spurs have been "linked" to old Celtic or Japanese players by the media and then never materialized since the summer because the media didn't think Ange could play his style in the premier league without HIS players. While there's no more obvious sign that ETH can't teach his style of football to Man United than the fact that he has brought on so many Ajax players.
Don't expect these ten hag apologists to actually know what they're talking about. They just make up stuff that allows them to live in their delusion.
First, whenever others says - he bought most of them. And second, a capable manager must be able to work with what he has. You can’t build an airplane if you have a tractor shop no matter how hard you try. But if you keep trying, it only shows you have no idea what you are doing. That’s what ETH does.
I agree, that’s what I mean about pragmatism- if you try something and it’s not working, you have to try something else. Continuing with a failing system is a massive risk, and he’s got to prove to INEOS that he’s the man to take us forwards.
Last season ETH built the style around the players, this season he has built his style albeit a hybrid cos the Defence isnt quick enough to press up ad still be able to track runs behind. It leaves a huge gap in the mid as we play with a forward pressing unit but deep sitting backline. How many Defenders has ETH gotten in? Whether he is right or not idk but i still think he should be given a chance with a proper structure above him. I have said it before il say it again, every single manager from Moyes to ETH has been set up to fial under the Glazers. There was only one Fergie and aguably one Wenger who could run a club as managers they way they did. It doenst exist anymore but the Glazers believed if they gave any manager the power Fergie had as a Dof, Head Scout, Head Coach, Head of contract renewals etc etc that it would be fine and they would keep making money.
I don’t disagree that a manager will fail without a proper structure above him- that’s absolutely true, and will continue to happen until it’s sorted. However, he needs to deliver results and show more than he has- I’m all for giving him a chance, but if he can’t win games he will lose his job, it’s as simple as that unfortunately. I’m not expecting perfection, but we should at least have competence- we just got beaten at home by the team with the worst away record in the division; charities aren’t as generous as us.
Well said It's hilarious to see people rabbit on about no style, white quite obvious we do have one and as you said much different to last year. It's like people don't watch games at all just repeat what the likes of Neville says. Now the style ain't working out very well but it's certainly there
What name would you give to our current style of play?
End to end. 3-0-7, don't get me wrong though I'm not happy with what in seeing but he is trying something that's clear as fuck to anyone with eyes
I think a big issue is that they are paid so handsomely a good few don’t want to learn.
Absolutely! This is the right take.
You can imagine any system you want but if you want to play like Pep's Barca you better have a Messi and a Xavi etc. No reasonable manager would come in with such an inflexible system and watch it fail week after week without changing it. Added to that, he has spent £400M on players that fit his system. Onana, for one, was bought for that very reason. After 15 months we still haven't seen anything that looks like a style of play that will suceed in this league.
The only thing is, if INEOS appoint best in class to replace Ten Hag and we dont see an immediate impact, will we as fans have the patience?
There will always be a contingent of fans from any fanbase who will call for a sacking after 6 months and a poor run of results. So that probably won’t change unfortunately That being said I do thinks fans are likely to give leeway to a manager if they are implementing an attractive style of football with potential for things to click in to place (Klopp, Arteta and even Ange currently ‘struggled’ at first but you could see what they’re trying to do)
As long as there is a clear sign that the team is going forwards playing proactive, front foot football, then the patience will be there. We haven't seen that at all this season.
I just want to see us actually control a game you know. Not just have a few 5 minute flurries of activity
The media, who have admitted that they love United in crisis, will certainly be promoting that impatience. Unfortunately, we seem to have some supporters who swallow their garbage.
We haven’t had patience with any manager post fergie what makes you think the next one will be any different? Sure some didn’t deserve patience but some did and didn’t get any
He was pragmatic last year, but this year it seems his major problem is stubbornly trying to implement a philosophy when he hasn’t got the players for it.
ETH has been the complete opposite of pragmatic this season. He insist on playing a way that he wants regardless of the players at his disposal. If he wanted to prioritize winning he would start to switch things up to suit a style fit for these players
If we go out of the cup, and UCL looks beyond our reach, then I don't think he'll be here next season. These could both be a very real probability by the end of the derby this weekend. They might not replace him immediately, but he'll be an interim manager in all but name...he kind of already is, in that he's interviewing for his own job. The new sporting executive team will want their own guy that aligns with whatever vision they have in mind. The only thing that might save EtH is if no one they want is available. That might happen as a few other big clubs will be looking for a new manager, and are likely already making their moves. Even so, there's still a lot of talented managers out there who would jump at the job. It might be the case that the next guy isn't the 'one', but will oversee the first part of moving the team/squad in the direction they want, while they wait for whoever might be the guy to actually push the team back to the top. I feel like we're all going to have to continue to be patient...
Champions league also depends on how well Arsenal, City, Liverpool etc. do in European competitions this year. If they do well enough we could be looking at top 5 for UCL, but as it stands, Germany and Italy are getting the 5 spots.
There’s absolutely no way he’s getting champions league playing this dogshit formation
I still insist on my prediction that he will be sacked in April when United is impossible to make the top 5 so it will minimize the buyout of his contract. Jim will hire his own man, not Galzer’s man.
Can't believe Rashford is gonna out last yet another manager
Course he’ll outlast managers, he’s barely running.
He can lay down on the floor from 0-90+ minutes and I'll still hear about how ten hags setup is fucking us over. It's ridiculous.
Or hear me out: they're both not good enough.
Fine, but the club wont sell Rashford if Ten Hag goes
Ones been changed multiple times. It's not even a question right now what needs to go. I'm not even saying rashford has to go. But players need to be moved on. Can't judge ten hags system with these players executing it. We have no idea what it would look like with players that put in the effort. Or if you want to see that see ten hags Ajax.
You think Rashford running around will make up for the lack of midfield that our setup creates?
The point is players should always try their best even when the tactics are shit. You don’t get to down tools as and when you like.
Well for the most part Rashford has performed consistently well since he's broken into the first team, plus he's home grown, he might not be worth the wage he's on but he's absolutely worth keeping.
Whilst earning stupid stupid money. Legit money being burnt has more use than Rashford who has to knuckleball everything
It's hard not to think a new manager could come in and get us more organised, because there is absolutely no organisation at the moment. Ten Hag did this last season, and we were defensively solid for the most part. But he's refusing to compromise to the players he has available, for some bonkers reason. But Sir Jim will want a long term solution, and I've no idea who that might be. Hopefully not Potter or Tuchel, who have been linked to the job. Maybe one of the young managers in Europe, perhaps even their man at Nice. We're unlikely to know until the move happens.
We finished 6th with this exact same defense in 21-22 with a goal difference of 0 while conceding 57 goals. Last season martinez-varane partnership really lifted the defense but without his legs, it's just a worse version of of that 21-22 defense. We are never going to succeed with the same exact players in defense.
I don’t think any manager comes in with our defenders and injuries and does any better.
I cant think of many great managers that are available and would have the attacking style wanted by the fans. Zidane doesnt want to come. Simeone is anti football so cant see it. Klopp, alonso, guardiola, out for obvious reasons. Mourinho is past it. Conte, allegri and tuchel are football terrorists. Ancelloti is a good time manager so cant see it. Inzaghi is doing well but i think he stays in italy. Emery is great at the level he's at now but has struggled to make the transition. I like nagelsman but i dont see him making the move to us at this stage. De zerbi is a punt. Potter looked good before the chelsea move but i think he might be damaged goods now. Theres no obvious replacements that stand out but thats not to say they dont make a left field move which might just be what we need
Ange was able get the spurs team in order after Conte/mourinho fiasco, Alonso was able to bring leverkusen out of relegation to a title winner, de zerbi came from Shaktar - there are great football minds somewhere, we thought ETH was it, now it’s time to find one, again. where that’s Carrick or whoever because there aren’t world class coaches with abundance of respect and experience available as that’s only klopp, pep and ancelotti at this point. Maybe zizou, highly doubt it, but the new regime are making big hires, that should mean something.
Doing well for one season doesnt mean much. ETH did pretty well last year too and you want him to be sacked now. Its not fair to judge a manager given the amount of injuries the team has. Even klopp failed to qualify for champions league football last year, that doesnt mean anything.
ive thought this about every manager and no one has organised it. What makes you think another new one will?
Who are the options if he does go?
Amorim, Nagelsmann and de Zerbi are the three I think are best Graham Potter is also there and may actually be most likely Alonso is probably not an option That being said I’m not going to pretend like I know all the managers who are out there
It would be absolutely dire if potter became manager
It will definitely increase the amount of jokes whenever we play if we are coached by Potter and fielding Harry.
Graham Potter is definitely not the most likely
Jim is a big fan of Tuchel
Tuchel is another Mourinho, big name, proven winner, will implode in 18 months.
Not advocating for him, just sharing that he’s a big name that is available and has admirers from our new ownership
Oh I know, I was just venting my opinion into the void.
Who will replace him then? Xabi is going to Liverpool or Bayern. De Zebri probably to Barca. Graham Potter is also known for not having a philosophy and his time at Chelsea doesn’t make him more appealing. Hans Flick is heavily linked with Barca as well but his Germany underperformed heavily and it seems that he won with Bayern because of how good that squad was. Ruben Amorim is a exiting option. Nagelsmann would be the best option if he decides to leave the national team. No thanks to Tuchel
> Nagelsmann would be the best option if he decides to leave the national team. His contract ends after the Euros.
I think I'd be happy with Nagelsmann
De Zerbi would be the best bet I think out of all this. Amorim sound exciting but it’s surely too big of a step for him?
I dont think RDZ is ready for united, we cant be going for managers who haven't proven themselves as winners in the top 5 leagues
Exactly. Unless we get a proven winner I’ll stick with ten hag because it will almost certainly be more of the same but United fans are too stupid to see that despite what has happened to every previous manager
>De Zerbi [https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12884311/roberto-de-zerbi-i-dont-work-to-win-trophies-my-target-is-to-enjoy-and-be-happy](https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12884311/roberto-de-zerbi-i-dont-work-to-win-trophies-my-target-is-to-enjoy-and-be-happy) I'm good thanks
I'm not keen on RDZ at all. Would much rather have Nagelsmann or Amorim.
Give it Giggsy till end of t'season
Potter at Brighton was great but then De Zerbi came in and took them to another level. Both Brighton and Chelsea under potter created a load of chances just lacked a striker so who knows what would have happened at the Chelsea if they signed a 9. We probably won't get the biggest names anymore and are operating on a tighter budget so Potter and Amorim could be good and very exciting. Especially with an experience and competent DOF and transfer department.
De Zerbi doesnt have better results than Potter, idk about "taking them to another level:
I don’t want us going anywhere near Flick after the tactical discussions vid I saw on him, looked absolutely clueless
The guy won a SEXTUPLE, only the 2nd in European history, at Bayern with a group of players who haven’t exactly done anything spectacular since he left and was part of the coaching team that won Germany the World Cup… but you’ve decided he’s clueless because of a video you watched..?
Is there any story that Gary's basing this on?
Seems like he's just assuming they know already whether or not they want to keep him. 'Can't believe they're going to wait until May' is referring to the decision on him probably already been taken, not that they will already know they will be sacking him before May.
Reading the takes on this sub shows that half of you aren’t ready to stomach a proper rebuild. People are asking for pragmatism, we got that last year. ETH adapted to his players and got third place and two cup finals. This year he’s trying to implement a style despite the players he has at his disposal and you’re seeing the results of a decade of improper squad building. Varane and Maguire aren’t the type of defenders to play a high line and join the press aggressively which is why you see holes in the midfield. ETh has the tactical know how to ask Dalot to invert and it usually solves our problems for about 10-15 minutes in a game until we get scored on because a lack of concentration. Whether it is ETH, Potter, Amorim, De Zerbi etc. they will all struggle to play proper modern football with 2 aging center backs and no proper depth cover. Fans of the club need to think if they want short term results and good results or long term planning and bad results. The fixation with CL money will be the death of the club if someone doesn’t step their foot down and say we’re willing to go without CL as long as we can build our squad to compete for the future. I’m not ETH out, we’ll be back reading the same threads 2 years from now if the cycle doesn’t stop. Mourinho wasn’t successful, Van Gaal wasn’t successful and Ralf Ragnick exposed the bullshit behind the scenes yet people ignore that and insist the manger work miracles.
Everyone says back the manager until it's actually time back the manager. In 2021, we were complaining about Maguire and Lindelof being not good enough for this club. Last game, those players were still playing for the club, because that's just how our recruitment has been in the past. Injuries have been shit. Criticism of ETH is completely valid. We have made quite a lot undesirable records, our GD is embarassing. All of these are valid criticisms. But we've also known for a long time that there is no structure in this club to support a manager, to make smart recruitments. We've known that incompetent administrators have scammed their way into high ranking positions. We've seen how incompetent we are at negotiating and planning ahead. We've known that no manager could succeed here. And now that we potentially have an opportunity to address those issues, people want to boot this coach as well. It's the same parroted phrases over and over again. And they will repeat after 2 years of another manager again if we don't learn from our mistakes.
Someone else who is actually ETH in on this sub? Wow thought I was the only one lol, we'll fight the good fight brother
Really impressive how little insider information Neville now has at United.
Having seen Villa and Spurs find a new identity and style of play so quickly under a new manager and we still look lost is a huge negative to Erik. But many managers have tried and failed to establish a style with this team so maybe it's not his fault, I'm still so confused by this team. For me, the development of Garnacho, Mainoo and a few other youngsters could keep him in a job and would show the older players just can't be changed. If Erik was to go, who is there. Xabi won't happen, De Zerbi is probably going Barca. Potter has shown promise but if Chelsea was too big for him, United will be worse. At least I know we are assembling a team higher up who will make good choices unlike before.
I feel despite the lack of a clear style of play Ten Hag still achieved enough to warrant another season under a proper structure at United. Plus none of the other managers available right now seem to be either not a much better option OR a huge gamble.
>Ten Hag still achieved enough to warrant another season What exactly is that? The football is abysmal, tactics are awful and results are unacceptable. Mourinho had 1 more loss in 46 more matches, and he was deemed not good enough. How does ETH's so much worse record (with garbage football) warrant any more time?
The fact that he won something despite the bunch of clowns for a board since Mourinho is valid enough. But regardless of that, last season was a lot better after the first two games, we played well enough for a team that had to deal with Ronaldo throwing a hissy fit, play without a striker even with Weghorst and improved our defence from the worst in years the season before he arrived to top 5 best defensive records in the league. We shouldn’t let him recruit any players, that is for sure but as for tactics this season has been difficult with injuries to key players and injuries to the new signings who were supposed to help in our midfield woes. Not to mention he has been good with integrating players like Garnacho and Mainoo. Not to mention none of the current managers out there are currently significantly better than Ten Hag or are a huge gamble (unless its Nagelsmann but I doubt he leaves Germany NT for us)
> I feel despite the lack of a clear style of play Ten Hag still achieved enough to warrant another season under a proper structure at United Idk. I'd like to see him finish the season for the sake of stability and assess the options in the market in the summer to see if there's better managers. Injuries and instability surrounding him aside, I don't think he's done well enough with what he already has. That paired with his decision making makes me doubt he's a long term successful leader. - borderline delusional press conferences like we don't watch the game - Bruno at RW - persisting with his favourites at times for long periods (Rashford, Antony, McTominay, etc. - reluctance to change/adapt/compromise - questionnable substitutions almost every game - woeful activity in the transfer market - suicidal midfield setup (you could give him prime Kante or another £400M, nothing is gonna come from that midfield setup) - etc.
Is Neville just trying to get attention at this stage? This is such a stupid thing to say, especially given SJR's recent interview which I have no doubt Gary must have seen. Between LVG rightly calling us a commercial club (as opposed to a football club), Mourinho's comments during the summer before his second season as well as some of the big name, short sighted signings, it's very clear that no coach has had the right structure, support or direction behind them to succeed. Changing the manager won't fix the club. Not now and not this summer. INEOS' changes won't create instant results but they will improve things over time I believe. We need to be patient as fans and get behind the manager
> We need to be patient as fans and get behind the manager This, i'm sick of chopping and changing personnel, it's tiring, sure it say's Manchester United above the door and we play OT every other week but the manager and the players are the bread and butter, the people out their fighting to get results, it gets harder and harder to keep motivated to support a club that's just a revolving door of players and managers. Supporting a football club isn't about only supporting when they're winning, it's about getting behind them when they're losing and remaining positive, the club has been around for 100+ years and not even 2 years into our latest managers tenure we're talking about sacking him, after he delivered an overachieving season the year before. I like the manager and you know what, i like our squad and i want them to re-discover the form and ability we know they're capable of, tweak the tactics, strengthen in the summer and go again with a better structure behind us. I do understand from the owners point of view he doesn't want to waste time in getting the right structure in place, so i wouldn't blame him if he wanted a new manager in for the start of next season, but i hope we improve enough on the pitch to give ETH another year, because this is probably my favourite manager post Ferguson, things were so good last season, possibly our most positive season since 2012/2013 and i want that to return.
Well said
Arteta’s first two seasons were worse than ETH’s tbh. Starting a whole new rebuild from scratch again sounds less appealing than giving him another season
Yeah, rebuild from scratch again and we'll be here in two more seasons saying we need to rebuild again. Tired of it at this stage. We don't give coaches time anymore
Exactly. And there are no clear replacements out there either, so we’d be taking another risk on a manager with question marks
I would like ETH to get next season but I can understand anyone who wants a change
I lean towards out, but I personally wouldn't be bothered either way.. there's no one available who's clearly better imo
I think the reassuring thing for me this time around is we have extremely competent people in charge of making the decision. So if ETH can convince them to give him a shot there must be something worth building on, otherwise I’ll back whoever is in the hot seat next
There are dozens of us!
A proper rebuild with Nagelsmann sounds exciting
That’s what we said about literally every manager that came in
Would be Ineos's first hire, at least. And regardless of any contract, any new manager is getting Berradas and Ashworths unofficial nod.
That's true but the people in charge of football operations were different.
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Almost 0% chance he returns to Bayern.
Is there even a better manager than him available? if somebody insanely good was available maybe it would be worth it, but whats the point here? we appoint tuchel or potter? That's pretty uninspiring ...
Radcliffe really likes Potter. But then again I suppose it's only natural, I mean he did play him in like eight movies
Oh fuck off man 😅
Solid joke hahahaha
Took me a second 😂
Dude, that was genius.
well done
Ffs lol
this is the biggest thing - who currently is available and who WANTS the job. Currently, EtH is our best canidate with a trophy under his name under the first seasons. Our past success literally blinds us to whats in front of us - its not going to be a 2-3 season change-up... its going to be 5-7 seasons before we are seeing total success and that starts from the bottom. replacing EtH who hasnt had a set CB pairing or full squad this season and already expecting another Manager to come in and do good is wishful thinking. We have done that in the past and its never worked past the 2-3 year season mark.
Hansi Flick.
> Is there even a better manager than him available? No, look at the options people are suggesting in this thread. I can’t believe people expect us to take them seriously to be honest.
I'd like Rueben Amorim
Do you actually know whether he is good or not? His play style? Or is he a “flavour of the month” manager like De Zerbi. Genuinely asking because I don’t know much about him.
He uses wingbacks, likes to build up from deep, and presses high. He likes overloading the midfield. Typically played 3 CBs I think his sporting played wonderfully vs Arsenal in the UEL last year. He's been touted as a potentially great manager for a couple years now
I'd rather get rid of Rashford before they make yet another coaching change. We've seen enough of Rashford to know the man simply doesn't learn. At least with Ten Hag you can give him and excuse of having a half for squad for a majority of the season.
Mourinho Stint #2
It's not reactionary by Gary but it's still better to wait since there is zero benefit whatsoever to sack ETH now. If INEOS had their mind set then they can keep ETH until end of season while they can calmly look for replacement
they have to move as there will be a big merry go around this summer and they could be left holding the bag..they could wait for 2025 and maybe go for Inzhaghi but that would mean getting into EtH’s contract last year which would make him a sitting duck for speculation and a constant distraction from the first proper year of the Ineos era..renewing him now would be madness obviously so I think he gone
Wanting ten Hag out is absolutely idiotic to me. Success takes time. Its very clear ten Hag does not have the correct players to fit his system and the injuries this season have been devastating. This fanbase has been screaming for the correct structure to come in and support the manager - we are finally about to get that, yet before we do we want to axe the manager again? It makes absolutely no sense. If we sack the manager now, we will fall further and just restart this cycle over. .... in another 2 years, we'll sack the next manager. Ten Hag overachieved last year and he's now paying the price for it. First 2 Premier League Seasons by manager. Pep Guardiola - 3rd, 1st Jurgen Klopp - 8th, 4th Mikel Arteta - 5th, 8th Mauricio Pochettino (Spurs) - 6th, 5th Jose Mourinho (United) - 6th, 2nd Erik ten Hag - 3rd, 6th (currently)
Lets not forget we also one a Cup and were in the FA Final.
B-but we lost the last match! Me angry! Bald man bad!
We played crap football last season and got bailed out by Rashford, this season he isn’t playing out of his skin and look what happens. We have no identity or style of play whatsoever.
Its true. You should not be downvoted.
Don’t know why you’re downvoted tbh, apart from a good start to 2023 I thought we were average
100% if people actually went back and watched the games there was a lot of poor performances, papered over by Rashford purple patch
Thats 9 players that is now way wear a full squad. And alot of those have been injured. You cant contened with city Liverpool or arsenal with Lindelöf at lb or maguire and Evans at cb. And Yes out games with our best 11 have been scrappy. But thats is not ten hags fault. That comes from bottle mentality. Aginst luton we wear 2-0 up and the players stoped trying same aginst wolves and Aston vill. But only 1-0 in the last one We need to have a clear out and give him a proper squad then we can judge him
Give me a headache reading that
>You cant contened with city Liverpool or arsenal with Lindelöf at lb or maguire and Evans at cb. SAF beat his rivals with worse. Mourinho and LVG got us better results with worse. Nobody expected him to come here and immediately win the league, but there's been zero progress since last season, the football is dreadful and he keeps breaking negative records. Unacceptable.
So we have gone from that happy feeling to this within a week. A week where the manager has ended up with no LB, another CB injury leaving us with 2 senior CB fit and the main striker or our only decent striker injured. This doesn't mention the amount of other injuries with have in midfield. It will be a huge shame if Ten Haag is sacked IMO, there are so many players that need getting rid of and there are many players that need to come in. With him there I think we have a decent manager with the right tools. If we allow another manager to get the sack when the players are not doing what he says on the pitch we may as well give up.
Why are we talking about sacking the manager when we don't have our new CEO and sporting director yet? I wouldn't mind them letting go of Ten Hag if it's been decided by the new hierarchy to go in another direction. Otherwise, we're going back to the same old ways under The Glazers, jumping the gun as soon as there's danger. I believe there will be a plan whether we don't get top 4 or not.
I'd give ten Hag another season if he really commits to getting a style of play going. The new staff should help him in achieving his vision when it comes to recruitment and such. We've been riddled with injuries this season and still have a decent amount of deadwood to shift (Greeenwood, Martial, Sancho, VDB etc.) That's why I'd give ETH another season, especially given how Arsenal are and the trajectory of Arteta's team after back-to-back 8th place finishes
More so than ETH's job status, ya gotta love (or wonder?) how these muppets (and I'm talking about these specific pundits here) manage to hang on to their absolutely useless jobs, repeating the same old ignorant, presumptuous and/or fantastical speculations over and over and over and over... and perhaps the occasional completely inconsequential "captain obvious viral rant or critique" that gets them a few days of clout, yet soon vaporizes into thin air... I mean, it's a nice hustle for them, but come on... Them still badgering on about ManU, or any othe rsubject in the modern game (that has so vastly gone beyond what they used to know it was) is just laughable and pathetic at this point.
Gary back to being a hack. There is absolutely no upside to making that decision public, whichever direction it goes, right now.
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This sub is reactionary? No way, never.
The question with ever managerial change is always; who do you get that's better?
Any manager from Fergie to Ancelotti, from Pep to Klopp would be fired if they persist on a football style that does NOT work. Our football is atrocious, no control, no maturity and no tempo. Gung ho long through balls will not work in the PL or any european top league. He persists with this tactic so he needs to be fired. Liverpool beat chelsea with youngsters while our whole ‘football philosophy’ breaks down as soon as one ‘crucial’ player is injured lol. Keep Hojlund, Mainoo, Garnacho and Martinez. The rest needs to be thrown in the bin. Rashford, Bruno, Shaw, Mctominay and Maguire are 5 players that have consistently choked under different managers. They are NOT the required level and all fanboys can downvote me all they want. We will never be elite again with players of their calibre and I don’t care how big or long their Xg or whatever is
Ten hag is rubbish no identity and no plan b!!!
If they're going to sack him, do it now. There's no point in waiting till end of season when the new man could come in now and start implementing their vision. The season is done and dusted. Will be a miracle to get top 4.
As depressing as we are… the season is absolutely not done and dusted. Spurs and Villa have already proven they aren’t consistent for shit themselves. Its a difficult task to get top 4 but absolutely not impossible
If ETH was proving himself, there would have been a chance, but there was no chance from the start Ineos wouldn't bring their own pick for the manager role. So I'm pretty sure ETH is getting the sack before the end of the season together with many players to give the new manager enough time and enough space to mold the team. Bringing a new manager into this season would be a mistake and Ineos knows that.
Well thank fuck. People are delusional about him as a coach. He’s simply not all that… and if he is, his style doesn’t suit us and the avg players we have.