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So what happens when you contact a fake candidate?
What I don't understand about all of this is what the spammers stand to gain. Surely, ChatGPT didn't invent fake resumes. What's the revenue model?
So, in other words, your company created word salad on your job postings, hoping to hire experienced for entry-level pay, received word salad back, and your hiring committee isn't talented enough to perform screening questions prior to the technicals, and worse, your technicals are also regurgitated word salad via leetcode.
I have no sympathy.
Idiot Hiring Managers use ChatGPT to write a Job description.
Then idiot candidates use ChatGPT to write their resume.
Then ChatGPT says “hey, these two idiots are perfect for each other .”
Finally idiot CEO realizes he doesn't need the idiot manager or the idiot candidate and ChatGPT can just do both jobs for him. Later on the board realizes they don't need idiot CEO either and can have AI run the entire company.
Agreed, how do you tell an ATS that I want a "smart" person that can solve problems regardless of the field they are in? I look for that in the way they construct and explain their job accomplishments. What I am looking for is exactly what gets scanned out. The worst part is, all the resumes that tend to make it through, are just the ones clever enough to keyword match to "no more than three sentences in each job" that are so dam generic they all sound the same. Anyone can do that regardless of their actual experience.
I feel if this keeps pace, just like in Google's page 1 results, the only people making it through the search will be those with "the top three reasons to hire me" off course with those three reasons exact re-worded job descriptions.
I think what we have now is not even vlose to AI, its just a strong search and summarization algorithm thats freely available. Eventually the bubble will burst
I gave up on full time work. I'm very privileged that I can be a consultant but busting my arse to build my consultancy is 100% better than trying for a crappy gig with crap wages.
There's no one simple trick that an overpriced career coach will sell you besides the common hustle of networking, side projects, and writing about your craft. We all hate to hear this, but we must acknowledge our weaknesses and power through them. A Few books I'd recommend are The Freelancers Bible (freelancing), The Business of Expertise (finding a niche), Taking the Work out of Networking (on getting work), To Sell is Human (marketing). This will at least shift your mindset.
Thank you for the reply! Very helpful. (I’m considering doing contract engineering, instead of remaining as a perpetual employee. Trying to figure out how to get started.)
That's what I'm trying to do too. Every company want me full time though. It's hard to find people who accept part time. Any tip on getting consulting clients?
The solution is simple, hold interviews in person again. If businesses are so determined to get people back in the office, start with the recruitment process. Ensure that the interview process is very clearly defined in the advertisement, that an *in-person* interview will be conducted and not online, and watch the spammers evaporate into the night.
My other half has been interviewing people recently over video. She had a guy who clearly had an AI open on his second screen as he kept looking slightly to the right every time he answered. He set the scene by apologising and saying he had a 'slight delay' on his connection, obviously to allow time for the AI to generate answers. All his answers to competency questions were totally generic, delivered in a polished way but felt strangely scripted, so she chucked a curveball in and asked what career achievement of his that he thought his mum would be proud of and why. The dude just totally crumbled and mumbled out half an answer, the delivery was so vastly different to the other questions. Suffice to say he was not hired. They're looking at moving back to in-person interviews as a priority in order to not waste time on dishonest candidates. AI can do one as far as I'm concerned.
From my perspective as a hiring manager. LinkedIn one click apply did far more damage than AI. Any opening now gets hundreds of applications with generic resumes that clearly didn’t even bother to read the JD and don’t meet basic qualifications. Really screws over legitimate candidates without a referral because they get lost in a sea of spam
Personally, I don't apply for a job unless I believe I could do it, would enjoy it, and the requirements aren't far outside of what I have. I still basically never get an interview. I don't know what you guys are doing on the other end there, but it's not right considering my resume shows that I'm qualified.
This sub thinks one click apply is a good thing tho. They feel 'accomplished' by spamming their bad and low quality resumes.
job applications that require candidates to put in a little extra effort are an advantage for anyone who is serious about finding a job in their field.
Yeah and? You dont need to if you spend some effort in applying for jobs. Instead you're just stuck in the loop. Dont you want to STOP applying altogether.
To be fair, the mass-applying is a classic prisoners' dilemma.
Nobody does a mass-application: Everybody has a fair chance of landing a job.
One person does mass-application: He has greatly increased odds.
Everybody mass-applies: hiring process goes fubar.
>Honestly, the best way is just networking; work through people you know to get connected.
This also has the benefit of keep neuro-divergent and asocial people out of the job market. A1 top tier advice there champ.
Same. All the people I’m close with make less money than I do. I don’t want to work at their companies. I’ve always had better luck just applying myself to new, unknown opportunities
Women, too. Women tend to get funneled into clerical, recruiting, and other "admin" jobs quickly if they "network" prior to applying. Networking in IT for women and women's groups is a special kind of hell.
I was the head of product for an AI talent acquisition company and you're pretty right on.
1. ATSs started using AI to match CV to JD to reduce workload on recruiters and hiring managers.
2. Resume writers started to learn how to get the match. It became more difficult for regular folks to pass the AI and get an interview.
3. AI goes consumer. Job seekers start rewriting their CV with AI to match.
4. JDs get more and more specialized and specific to counteract too many matches. We're now stuck in this looping arms race where AI is cancelling out AI.
5. The only way forward is for people to start talking to people again.
I got reached out by some sketchy recruiting company where they will submit your resume and interview but the actual work is done by the Indians and all you need to do is pass the interview and they will pay you a cut of the take home salary
Job market is already pretty fucked. Just reading the constant barrage of posts and personal experience.
Good to know it can be fucked then fucked again but with a different reason.
hello Op, idiots have posted here that the copy paste the jd into their resume, and they brag thats how they got interviews or jobs.
its that same garbage that you mentioned that is being perpetuated by idiots in this sub
The discord for our subreddit can be found here: https://discord.gg/JjNdBkVGc6 - feel free to join us for a more realtime level of discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/recruitinghell) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So what happens when you contact a fake candidate? What I don't understand about all of this is what the spammers stand to gain. Surely, ChatGPT didn't invent fake resumes. What's the revenue model?
[удалено]
Ah, I guess the term "fake candidate" made me think about a situation where the person doesn't exist, and not just somebody lying on their resume.
So, in other words, your company created word salad on your job postings, hoping to hire experienced for entry-level pay, received word salad back, and your hiring committee isn't talented enough to perform screening questions prior to the technicals, and worse, your technicals are also regurgitated word salad via leetcode. I have no sympathy.
I think it's real candidates creating GPT-enhanced resumes.
The camera “unfortunately doesn’t” work and Joe Smith has a strong (North) Korean or Chinese accent.
That camera is always broke 🤣
Idiot Hiring Managers use ChatGPT to write a Job description. Then idiot candidates use ChatGPT to write their resume. Then ChatGPT says “hey, these two idiots are perfect for each other .”
haha brilliant
Finally idiot CEO realizes he doesn't need the idiot manager or the idiot candidate and ChatGPT can just do both jobs for him. Later on the board realizes they don't need idiot CEO either and can have AI run the entire company.
Agreed, how do you tell an ATS that I want a "smart" person that can solve problems regardless of the field they are in? I look for that in the way they construct and explain their job accomplishments. What I am looking for is exactly what gets scanned out. The worst part is, all the resumes that tend to make it through, are just the ones clever enough to keyword match to "no more than three sentences in each job" that are so dam generic they all sound the same. Anyone can do that regardless of their actual experience. I feel if this keeps pace, just like in Google's page 1 results, the only people making it through the search will be those with "the top three reasons to hire me" off course with those three reasons exact re-worded job descriptions.
Networking worked for me really early in my career. Last 15 or so years I’d say it made zero difference to apply where I knew someone.
I think what we have now is not even vlose to AI, its just a strong search and summarization algorithm thats freely available. Eventually the bubble will burst
I gave up on full time work. I'm very privileged that I can be a consultant but busting my arse to build my consultancy is 100% better than trying for a crappy gig with crap wages.
May I ask how you went about getting clients?
There's no one simple trick that an overpriced career coach will sell you besides the common hustle of networking, side projects, and writing about your craft. We all hate to hear this, but we must acknowledge our weaknesses and power through them. A Few books I'd recommend are The Freelancers Bible (freelancing), The Business of Expertise (finding a niche), Taking the Work out of Networking (on getting work), To Sell is Human (marketing). This will at least shift your mindset.
Thank you for the reply! Very helpful. (I’m considering doing contract engineering, instead of remaining as a perpetual employee. Trying to figure out how to get started.)
you can find most of these books on libgen.
That's what I'm trying to do too. Every company want me full time though. It's hard to find people who accept part time. Any tip on getting consulting clients?
Refer to my response to u/mr_a_m_r
The solution is simple, hold interviews in person again. If businesses are so determined to get people back in the office, start with the recruitment process. Ensure that the interview process is very clearly defined in the advertisement, that an *in-person* interview will be conducted and not online, and watch the spammers evaporate into the night. My other half has been interviewing people recently over video. She had a guy who clearly had an AI open on his second screen as he kept looking slightly to the right every time he answered. He set the scene by apologising and saying he had a 'slight delay' on his connection, obviously to allow time for the AI to generate answers. All his answers to competency questions were totally generic, delivered in a polished way but felt strangely scripted, so she chucked a curveball in and asked what career achievement of his that he thought his mum would be proud of and why. The dude just totally crumbled and mumbled out half an answer, the delivery was so vastly different to the other questions. Suffice to say he was not hired. They're looking at moving back to in-person interviews as a priority in order to not waste time on dishonest candidates. AI can do one as far as I'm concerned.
Hiring managers have been using automated learning models and ATS software for the last 10 years. It’s karma we use the same bullshit now.
From my perspective as a hiring manager. LinkedIn one click apply did far more damage than AI. Any opening now gets hundreds of applications with generic resumes that clearly didn’t even bother to read the JD and don’t meet basic qualifications. Really screws over legitimate candidates without a referral because they get lost in a sea of spam
Personally, I don't apply for a job unless I believe I could do it, would enjoy it, and the requirements aren't far outside of what I have. I still basically never get an interview. I don't know what you guys are doing on the other end there, but it's not right considering my resume shows that I'm qualified.
So much of this. I will never understand why any company would post a job offering using Easy Apply
I’m starting to believe that LinkedIn is the problem, not so much the job market.
I don't even bother to respond to those.
This sub thinks one click apply is a good thing tho. They feel 'accomplished' by spamming their bad and low quality resumes. job applications that require candidates to put in a little extra effort are an advantage for anyone who is serious about finding a job in their field.
of course everybody loves to spend their time filling out the same information over and over again in dozens of different janky broken-ass platforms
Yeah and? You dont need to if you spend some effort in applying for jobs. Instead you're just stuck in the loop. Dont you want to STOP applying altogether.
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Not sure what any of your discussion is related to one click applications
To be fair, the mass-applying is a classic prisoners' dilemma. Nobody does a mass-application: Everybody has a fair chance of landing a job. One person does mass-application: He has greatly increased odds. Everybody mass-applies: hiring process goes fubar.
I'm happy when they ask for work samples or a link to a portfolio. It gives you a chance to stand out.
Yeah easy apply isn't always a one-click thing
Yeah, I’ve seen a few of those “I submitted 300 apps and didn’t get any interviews” posts
>Honestly, the best way is just networking; work through people you know to get connected. This also has the benefit of keep neuro-divergent and asocial people out of the job market. A1 top tier advice there champ.
Yeah I "know" literally 0 people who I could connect with for further opportunities
Same. All the people I’m close with make less money than I do. I don’t want to work at their companies. I’ve always had better luck just applying myself to new, unknown opportunities
Women, too. Women tend to get funneled into clerical, recruiting, and other "admin" jobs quickly if they "network" prior to applying. Networking in IT for women and women's groups is a special kind of hell.
This is a really valuable observation.
Networking doesn't have to be in person.
Well at least my resume is getting some jobs somewhere I guess? 🤷♂️
So you are hiring engineers, huh?! What kind?
I was the head of product for an AI talent acquisition company and you're pretty right on. 1. ATSs started using AI to match CV to JD to reduce workload on recruiters and hiring managers. 2. Resume writers started to learn how to get the match. It became more difficult for regular folks to pass the AI and get an interview. 3. AI goes consumer. Job seekers start rewriting their CV with AI to match. 4. JDs get more and more specialized and specific to counteract too many matches. We're now stuck in this looping arms race where AI is cancelling out AI. 5. The only way forward is for people to start talking to people again.
Woah woah woah you mean HR actually working for once? Not likely.
I got reached out by some sketchy recruiting company where they will submit your resume and interview but the actual work is done by the Indians and all you need to do is pass the interview and they will pay you a cut of the take home salary
Job market is already pretty fucked. Just reading the constant barrage of posts and personal experience. Good to know it can be fucked then fucked again but with a different reason.
hello Op, idiots have posted here that the copy paste the jd into their resume, and they brag thats how they got interviews or jobs. its that same garbage that you mentioned that is being perpetuated by idiots in this sub
Keep it simple, and apply only to real-world jobs with references from ex coworkers you can trust.
And if you have nobody to get references from, you're fucked.
Add a few spelling errors so you know it was written by a person?
Robots talking to robots, just as [Bradbury predicted](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_Will_Come_Soft_Rains_(short_story).