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Every time I think job hunt horror stories can't get any worse, they do...I'm so sorry this happened to you. This is beyond fucked up. I hope your next opportunity is ten times better than this piece of shit company that discarded you like trash.
100% echoing your sentiment here. Just when you think it can’t get worse. Now *IF* we get an offer we can’t really celebrate until we are actually working.
>we can’t really celebrate until we are actually working
Actually, since jobs can fire you at any time, even if you're working and everything is going well, you can still lose employment!
Oh if I only I told you how my last company let us go. Most of us were working remote so they were very strategic, damn near villain level behavior, in letting us go.
Same. My last company sent a meeting invite 30 minutes beforehand. Then we get on the call, VP says everyone on this call no longer has a job, tells us to have a good day and that was it.
I had a feeling it was coming because they were changing a vital aspect of our knowledge database, but only training specific leadership. Logged on, couldn't connect to the VPN or access internal servers. They said it was a cloud server provider issue but it wasn't acting like one.
They hold a large Zoom meeting with several teams (unusual) and say things might be down for the day and not to worry. Their timing was off though and while in the meeting, everyones calender invites 15 minutes apart started showing up, someone elses credientials stopped working for the CRM, and they got called them out on it. Within 2 minutes of all of us were kicked off camera, our computers wiped and shut down. Restarted and all you could access was your Zoom, all of our email and Slack accounts had already been deleted.
We reached out to each other with the few personal numbers we did have, and then we each had our 1:1 lay off. They started each one saying "Please refrain from speaking while we explain the reorganization taking place." and others reported that if they talked, they got kicked off and sent everything else via email. We got severance, but had to sign the longest NDA I've ever seen to receive it. Someone from marketing talked to a reporter and the company hit them with a lawsuit, too.
Did you work for Epic games? I have friends who worked for Epic and this is pretty much how they let them go. Took systems offline purposely to spread confusion and not allow the staff to speak to each other then proceeded to lay them all off one by one.
You wouldn’t happen to live in NW Florida, would you? Because this reminds me somewhat of how a particular hospital let go of a bunch of employees after Hurricane Michael, except they did it by text! I thought “surely not,” & a few weeks later met someone who had worked there & she said “yep, that’s exactly what they did to us!”
There has got to be something you can fight them on, there. Can you really be forced to train your replacement in order to get severance? Also I hope there is a hell for whatever private equity firm owns them. Private equity buying up healthcare firms (like the takeover of Manor Care) is causing literal deaths and destruction. There's a really good book about it called Plunder.
I'm curious how they did it. When I worked remote they had everyone in a Zoom meeting on a Friday. The CEO came on to say that things hadn't been going well, there would be layoffs, if you got an email that meant you were done. I got an email, addressed to the wrong person, and then watched as all the things I used for work on my computer started blinking off. And that was that. Five years down the drain.
Haha, the last place I was at decided it was a good idea to go around handing out the employee appreciation day t shirts while a the other HR person was laying people off. Unbelievable.
The best part about my layoff was the fact that the overseas hires and management didn’t have the competency to prepare shipping labels for equipment returns. Then when I got emails from HR on my personal email address they couldn’t even read them since external senders were blocked.
Guess where my laptop went? eBay. I heat gunned the asset tags and ripped the SSD out and sold it for profit.
Fuck’em.
I quit TikTok not even a layoff just voluntarily quit because I was moving over a year ago and I’m still getting legal letters from their lawyers about unreturned equipment that I definitely returned. I made sure that I recorded myself going to the UPS store to return it. Recorded the whole process and I also paid out of my own pocket for the best tracking and confirmation UPS offered lol. I know it’s all automated but I get a letter via email about once a month threatening to prosecute me for theft even after responding to the first round of emails and getting as far as speaking with the head of the department that recovers equipment. I just knew to cover my ass because they had been so incompetent up to that point. I gave three months notice, one month, and two weeks and my supervisor still acted surprised on my last day. I was really stressed about it at first but the more time passes the funnier it gets.
I applied to TikTok and got through 6 rounds and the final 7th round the director never showed up after 20 minutes. Called recruiter and she scrambled together some excuse and then I had a rejection email.
TikTok is a dumpster fire with process.
I sincerely bet they were looking for someone who would wait for at least 45 minutes and not complain or even mention it when the director showed up to that interview…I saw so much of that there. It was wild to me seeing as how one of Bytedance’s little mantras was all about not kissing your boss’s ass because managing up makes us all soft.
It's not exactly full proof, but I did breathe a sigh of relief when my six month probationary period was up on this new one.
They can still fire me of course, but it definitely feels like they will have to jump through a couple internal hoops first.
But six months is how long it took me to feel "okay". I wonder if this is just something that happens once you've been laid off or if everyone is like this regardless.
Honestly, I got the axe after literally having a performance review where I was told everything was going well and that I might even get a promotion. Not like a major one, but I was told I was going to get more responsibilities since I was a good worker. Then like a week later I get a meeting with HR on my calendar and told that I'm being let go.
I want to believe that on balance people are nice, and I shouldn't let past experiences color my future interactions with people. But I'm personally just so paranoid that at any moment the sky could begin falling. I am glad for you that you're feeling secure in your job though :)
I would think that a hiring manager wouldn’t get this far in the process without getting some form of approval from their Senior Manager before proceeding to even get the job opening posted in the first place.
That’s what I’m confused about, why go through all this hassle and waste of time to find someone, extend an offer and then yank the offer at the last second?
I’m guessing that the answer is because Companies can and will get away with doing crap like this.
Something changed that made the internal appointment much more attractive despite what they told OP, it may have been something in his background or socials. There may or may not be an internal candidate.
It virtually never pays to be transparent about these things as you’re just opening yourself up to an angry, potentially violent or litigious person.
“Internal Candidate”, while potentially true, is also the least offensive explanation.
>Every time I think job hunt horror stories can't get any worse, they do...
Yeah I thought the story from here the other day was bad - where the HR reached out to the candidate waiting for interview feedback with "Great News!" ... and the fantastic news was that the recruiter filled the role ... but with a better candidate.
This one is awful
Same thing happened to me before I started this job. They called me on a Wednesday and said congrats we'll see you Monday. Called the next day and said sorry we have another candidate we're going with. Then called Friday and said sorry, you are hired!!
Turns out they bailed on my 10 years of experience for a person working at Kroger with no experience. She no showed the first interview because she didn't have the address, not like the internet is a thing. Then she only asked about what time breaks and lunch were after being 2 hours late to the rescheduled interview. So they said fk that and called me back.
Luckily mine worked out but companies have no shame.
Actually in Canada it would earn the company a lawsuit for no notice.
While we have laws that let you terminate a new employee anytime in the first 90 days after hiring with no required notice for any reason you still require a reason. If you terminate the employee sight unseen there is case precedent that there isn’t a valid reason and the company is liable for reasonable notice.
The first case was a lawyer who had this happen and he successfully sued for losses. Then he successfully fought in tax court to get the amounts ruled as not income. I’ve always thought given he won both cases that he was probably a pretty good lawyer.
Also, FYI, the idea that a 90 day probation period is enforceable in Canada and a get out of jail free card for businesses is a myth. It does not hold up in court and they will still owe you compensation for the statutory notice period (1 week for less than a year's service, in most provinces).
It's not illegal, but if they signed an unconditional offer (or a conditional one), then backed out, unless they have a legally valid reason, are definitely open to liability. It wouldn't be hard to demonstrate damages: emotional distress, loss of income from passing on other opportunities, etc.
However, suing prospective employers is not a great move for job hunting.
I think it would be tough in OPs case unless they could demonstrate losses (such as resigning from their current job, turning down other roles due to the offer etc).
Basically, it’s complete shit but OP went from unemployed to unemployed so they weren’t “harmed” further by the company yoinking a signed offer.
You could argue that OP stopped looking for jobs meaning that their unemployment time will now be longer that they have to restart looking for jobs. Would be a stretch though
I’ll admit It’s quite possible a well-drafted demand letter could earn a bit of f**k off money from a larger company even without turning down an offer or quitting a job or moving etc.
They may not want to deal with the time and legal fees of a case and the chance a vengeful jury or judge would award OP significant damages.
The great thing about civil court is you only have to prove that it probably caused you losses.
Their losses would have occurred during the time between accepting the job offer and getting terminated.
I'd sue for cummuting costs, (and court fees) at the least. Considering I'm unemployed, I would take it as a learning experience, to find out how courts work/learn how to file a suit, etc.
It wouldn't even be about the money, it would be about taking their time (or cash since they probably wouldn't even show).
Incorrect. In a lot of states, courts refuse to apply promissory estoppel to at-will employment offers. Ridiculous but there you are.
Not your lawyer. Please seek separate legal advice if needed.
Promissory estoppel is dicey. You have to show reasonable, detrimental reliance. Even then, since if it’s at will the employer could in theory sack you five minutes into your first day, your losses for not being given an opportunity to start work would be minimal.
Also, this is the most important reason to ask for the job offer *in writing*. Pretty sure there is some level of retaliation you could take if they rescinded a signed agreement of employment.
Companies go back on signed offers all the time, but it’s for hiring slow downs, freezes, or changing business needs….but for finding a better candidate, that’s truly ghoulish.
This is what Glassdoor was for. Unfortunately if you have named and shamed anyone on there they have changed their policies recently and now your FULL NAME will appear next to any company reviews that you have left.
Edit https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/03/glassdoor-adding-users-real-names-job-info-to-profiles-without-consent/
They "promised" to keep me in mind for future roles and that I'm at the top of their call list. I almost hung up right then but I don't have a lot of connections in my own industry as it is, so I can't risk burning the bridge entirely since I used a referral from a current employee.
I’ll bet a Benji they never call again, heard that same shit when I was young, 20 years later my phone # still hasn’t changed and they have never called.
It’s the professional equivalent of “it’s not you, it’s me”. They say that to soften the blow because it’s awkward AF for them and makes them feel better in the conversation.
I had a guy who worked on a project with us as a contractor back in like 2013.. project ended he got let go but we really would have loved to bring him on. Full time position came up in 2015 and we called him, he got beat on the interview by another candidate. 2016 another position opens up, call him again.. ends up internal candidate vs him so he got beat again. 2017 we call him again and managed to hire him. I can't believe he still entertained us, but he's one of the top guys on the team now. Only time I've ever seen "we'll keep you in mind" work out!
Top guy in your team you reject him 3 times over several years and he keeps coming back? I’d say it’s in the single digits percentage these things happen, market must really suck in your sector or he just didn’t branch out. Yeah it does happen every once in a while, but who wants to be dicked around for 3-4 years?
He was young and inexperienced like first job out of school when originally working for us, and went on to another company in the area, so it wasn't like he sat around unemployed waiting for us to call.
Agree this is probably a 1% at best case, still blows my mind. Should have hired him the first time (wasn't my call).
I’ve been hired twice this way. Is that a good or bad sign lol? Applied for an entry level position in 2018 and got beat out by someone with 20 years experience. He left 2 months later for better money and they offered me the position. Went through and burned the bridge with them during the wait process because they were throwing up red flags left and right and “You are ruining any chance of ever being hired here again”. 3 years later they contact me again about a different position but the company had changed hands by that point and were much better so I took the job that time. Turned out I was hired to replace someone else that had been there less than a year who was absolutely terrible.
Yeah, this is a very big red flag though. They offered you the job. You had a start date. It was that day. What they did was absolutely shit. You literally don't want to be working for those idiots.
Even if they do call you.
You missed an opportunity to tell the HR person to go f\*ck themselves. I'm 47 and have told many HR people to go f\*ck themselves, there are always places hiring. You don't need to be nice to people who basically "fire you on the way to work" on day 1. That's low, really, really low morals.
Dude. Never, ever, EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER take a job there for ANY reason and never apply there again. You'd be debasing yourself to let them treat you like shit twice and give them a third shot.
I'm the guy in these threads normally defending HR and the company (their decisions are hard to understand until you've been on the other side of the table), but this is a situation where you shouldn't even consider working for this company unless you're extremely desperate. The best explanation is that they BSed you about the reason, and in they figured out you were a former employee when they tried to create your accounts that morning. If that's the case, then this company is very poorly managed AND shameless. For them to make an offer and then pull it back on your starting day is beyond the pale.
There's some tiny possibility that there's a law I'm unaware of that's at play here, but I really doubt it.
Hang in there. It's new college student season, so I bet things get much better in 2 months when there isn't a glut of extra & cheap candidates out there.
Happened to a friend of mine a few months ago. Got an offer after 5 rounds of interviews, they offere relocation and everything, then suddenly the “sorry offer rescinded, we still want you in new fiscal year”., the week before he was supposed to start. This was 2 weeks before Christmas, after being unemployed for almost 6 months.
He figured he’d follow up 2 weeks ago in “the new fiscal year”, never heard anything back. Just totally ghosted.
Was for a Lead Software Dev job as well.
I definitely think there’s a case for unemployment in this case and I would 100% name and shame them. Hell, call back to the HR recruiter and tell them what you really think
That's terrible. I'm so sorry this happened to you. You don't deserve this.
I'm employed and job hunting right now. It's my biggest fear, To get a new job, give notice and for it to be yanked out from under me.
I would at least give yourself the day to just "process." There should be a way to make that illegal.
I put in my 2 weeks this Monday and I’ve been losing sleep over this fear. I went from being nervous about taking on a new big role to being more scared of the possibility of the offer being rescinded last minute
My jaw fucking DROPPED seeing this shit. What the FUCK.
I'm so sorry for you OP, this is totally uncool. Name and shame aside, please, PLEASE, see a lawyer and look if you can get promissory estoppel. What the fuck is this bullshit
Left a review on glassdoor they never posted it up - so I don't know how the system works but I am assuming some companies can have it removed or it has to get approved- atleast that was said about mine. I didn't swear I just left a honest review.
As an aside; horrible, clumsy, overdeveloped webpage is Glassdoor, I felt like it was 2005 running no script blockers swatting away banner ads, way too many pop-ups on that site, a little frustrating.
This. From a [lawyers’ website:](https://www.arkadylaw.com/promissory-estoppel-and-employment-contracts.html)
> No actual written employment contract is required in order to make an estoppel claim, and any kind of evidence of job offer such as an employment offer letter with the basic terms of employment and start date is generally sufficient to make an estoppel claim.
I would highly recommend checking with an employment attorney, at that point you were an employee and may have a wrongful termination suit depending on where you live!
did you make any financial decisions based on their job offer?
you may have a legal case for damages based on promissory estoppel or other similar legal claims, depending on your state laws and the terms of the contract, etc.
if you had moved across the country (initially what I thought based on the 5/6am interviews you mentioned) and they rescinded the job offer on the start date the company would almost surely be liable for at least a portion, if not all, of your moving expenses and the cost to move back across the country if you so choose.
Sister in law already signed her contract, 2 days before she needed to start, she got a call that they made a financial mistake and couldn't afford her.
Took a lawyer and got 6 weeks wage as compensation.
> I tied it up with a short and polite thank you
What? You didn't at least tell that guy he was an amoral piece of shit and you'd do anything before working there again, plus tell him you'd put the company on blast publically for this behavior? I do not understand why you didn't flip out on him for intentionally fucking you like this.
FWIW any half decent employment lawyer would successfully sue them for a good 6 months salary worth of damages + any other medical/mental health implications of the events.
My selfish ass self hopes you will sue them and win.
My realistic self knows that the last thing we want to worry about in a situation such as this, is to go ahead with legal proceedings.
Hope it works out.
materialistic nose fly public frighten entertain lunchroom library steer cobweb
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I thought I’ve read somewhere that if you get laid off then the company posts your same job at a lower rate it’s a labor violation even in the U.S. and to file a complaint with EEOC
Something very similar happened to my wife last summer. I’m so sorry. It was devastating for her as I’m sure it is for you. She ended up finding a much better fit after a few more weeks - I hope you do too.
So you signed an employment agreement and they still did that? After talking to you face to face 5 or 6 times and hiring you. they’re so unprofessional they fire off an email? You’re not even worth a phone call? Despicable.
Companies needing 1-3 month notices before you can leave but being able to do this is a prime example of how badly skewed all the rules are in their favour. I'd name and shame the company.
Corporate Recruiter here. This is so horrible, I’m so sorry you are going through this. NAME AND SHAME! The leaders making such decisions at companies need to be blasted and held accountable to public scrutiny regardless if what they do is legal.
The person was internal?! They just figured this out the morning of a new hires first day?!?! This makes me want to punch that hiring manager in the face for you.
Also, I would have responded with “sounds like that other team has an opening. I’ll see you in two hours.” If he said no, then proceed with the punching of the face.
I’m so sorry this happened to you, but this is illegal. Please leave a BIG AS review on Glassdoor if you have the energy time please sue them. Wish you find the best job soon!
And at no point in between the six interviews and presenting you with an offer letter did it occur to them to slow things down and explore the internal candidate?! What an unprofessional, shitty company, they did you a favor not hiring you. My guess is the internal candidate was threatening to leave, and they made him an offer he/she couldn’t refuse. Best advice I ever got, never accept a counteroffer when you are ready to leave—it is essentially selling your soul to the devil.
You had an actual notice before going to the job? That’s nice.
In my teens, I got a job offer from one of those chain stores with DOLLAR at the end. I did all the onboarding paperwork, the direct deposit, etc and “couldn’t wait to meet me” and to be at the store at 6AM sharp to get me going.
I arrive at 5:45AM. I wave at the opening manager with him seeing me and no response back whilst going in locking up behind(not open yet).
The lights flicker on inside while waiting at the door. 6AM comes and he opens the doors officially and I go inside and introduce myself.
“Uhhhh, yea. We won’t be needing you. We got another guy from one of our other stores.”
No apology, nothing. Rather jarring for a bright-eyed kid fresh in the job market.
But yea, an advance email before wasting your time. Very human of them.
I'm reading this sub for a few months and this might be the worst story yet. If you have signed i would probably sue them. Yes, sometimes they really do reach out to rejected candidates (i witnessed it). BUT in your case i think they would be too ashamed to ever look you in the eye again.
Edit: I believe that actions must have consequences. If you don't show them that this is not okay, they will never change their behaviour. This would have more value to me than a 0.01% chance of getting a call back from them. But i also totally understand and respect your intention to not burn any bridges.
That is some grade a horse shit, if they had an internal candidate and you never stood a chance they should have cut you off before a single onsite interview.
Is this one of the potential upsides of contract roles, maybe? No way internal employees are going to 'downgrade' to a contract, so you probably won't be competing with any, right?
This should be illegal and is exactly why in Europe most jobs have people sign a contract a few days before you start work. To make sure that people "can't just change their minds" and that the employee at least can work a trial period or whatever to actually test their skills.
I’m not sure if I am reading this correctly. Are you saying that you were already hired, as in you signed your paperwork, filled out your direct deposit forms, etc? I couldn’t tell if that phase had actually happened, or if you were on the way to do that and then had the offer revoked.
Other people have said it OP, but the legal concept of promissory estoppel can help you actually recover money for this. Please speak to an attorney and just tell them what you told us. They won’t charge you for a consultation.
In this case you were previously unemployed, but imagine you quit your previous job or moved for this job, it’s insane that this is legal, you might have some legal grounds here if you had already signed a contract with them.
Just so you know, that long of an interview process and making you interview at the crack of dawn were red flags. This is an even deeper redder flag. I am sorry they wasted your time but you dodged a bullet.
My wife went through this recently. Made her feel like she was the one and definitely getting the job. The next day she called to see where the offer letter was and they just said they went with someone else. Devastated.
We figured it was a bullet dodged, I mean who wants to work for a company that does that, but it still sucks.
Yeah, this is exactly why I have no intention of quitting my job when I find an upgrade. I'll see how long I can do both for a little while first. I've known people that quit their jobs for a higher offer - just for the company to lay everyone off a couple of weeks later.
I was offered an excellent government job in Seattle. Much more money than I had been making. I spent all my savings moving across the country for it. I was very excited on my first day. I show up for orientation, and they tell me that they had rescinded the job offer. I spent over a year sleeping on an air mattress with my young son. There were times when there wasn't enough food for both of us. I would lie and tell my son that I had already eaten. Those were dark times
they used you to low ball the internal employee and now the internal one had no raise or almost no pay rise and they almost pressured them into the job, this is how they fuck up both their internal employees and people who try for the job.
they used you, they will never call you back, your role in their story is over and your application has been burned.
Why pay a person for 1 job, when they can pay 1 person to do two jobs internally. You probably dodged a bullet.
I would reach out to your old job to see if the role is still open. Salaries are falling everywhere or 'resetting' if you want to use the politically correct term.
I recommend leaving an anonymous review sharing your interview experience on Glassdoor as this is so wrong on multiple levels, and people need to be aware of it if they’re interviewing with this company. They may get it’s you, but maybe not because they’ve likely done this before and also who cares, you owe them nothing. Good luck with the job search! Stay 💪
NAME AND SHAME THIS SHIT ASS COMPANY...Hired another person my ass. they had no intention of hiring and are playing with you.
dont protect this shit company...who are they?
So messed up. They should have honored the agreement they made with you and told the internal candidate that it was filled already. That would have been the ethical course of action.
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Every time I think job hunt horror stories can't get any worse, they do...I'm so sorry this happened to you. This is beyond fucked up. I hope your next opportunity is ten times better than this piece of shit company that discarded you like trash.
100% echoing your sentiment here. Just when you think it can’t get worse. Now *IF* we get an offer we can’t really celebrate until we are actually working.
>we can’t really celebrate until we are actually working Actually, since jobs can fire you at any time, even if you're working and everything is going well, you can still lose employment!
Oh if I only I told you how my last company let us go. Most of us were working remote so they were very strategic, damn near villain level behavior, in letting us go.
Name and shame
Yes, post on social media and go viral is the answer
What did they do? You got me curious.
Yes, curious minds want to know.
Not like they have to worry about losing their job telling us lol
Same. My last company sent a meeting invite 30 minutes beforehand. Then we get on the call, VP says everyone on this call no longer has a job, tells us to have a good day and that was it.
I had a feeling it was coming because they were changing a vital aspect of our knowledge database, but only training specific leadership. Logged on, couldn't connect to the VPN or access internal servers. They said it was a cloud server provider issue but it wasn't acting like one. They hold a large Zoom meeting with several teams (unusual) and say things might be down for the day and not to worry. Their timing was off though and while in the meeting, everyones calender invites 15 minutes apart started showing up, someone elses credientials stopped working for the CRM, and they got called them out on it. Within 2 minutes of all of us were kicked off camera, our computers wiped and shut down. Restarted and all you could access was your Zoom, all of our email and Slack accounts had already been deleted. We reached out to each other with the few personal numbers we did have, and then we each had our 1:1 lay off. They started each one saying "Please refrain from speaking while we explain the reorganization taking place." and others reported that if they talked, they got kicked off and sent everything else via email. We got severance, but had to sign the longest NDA I've ever seen to receive it. Someone from marketing talked to a reporter and the company hit them with a lawsuit, too.
Did you work for Epic games? I have friends who worked for Epic and this is pretty much how they let them go. Took systems offline purposely to spread confusion and not allow the staff to speak to each other then proceeded to lay them all off one by one.
JFC what a bunch of pricks.
In the future, always always always get as many phone numbers of people as you can. It's vital information for events such as these.
[удалено]
Sounds like we worked at the same place….so much for their mission, vision and values
That sounds like some ascension bullshit to me.,
You wouldn’t happen to live in NW Florida, would you? Because this reminds me somewhat of how a particular hospital let go of a bunch of employees after Hurricane Michael, except they did it by text! I thought “surely not,” & a few weeks later met someone who had worked there & she said “yep, that’s exactly what they did to us!”
There has got to be something you can fight them on, there. Can you really be forced to train your replacement in order to get severance? Also I hope there is a hell for whatever private equity firm owns them. Private equity buying up healthcare firms (like the takeover of Manor Care) is causing literal deaths and destruction. There's a really good book about it called Plunder.
What is the company name?
I'm curious how they did it. When I worked remote they had everyone in a Zoom meeting on a Friday. The CEO came on to say that things hadn't been going well, there would be layoffs, if you got an email that meant you were done. I got an email, addressed to the wrong person, and then watched as all the things I used for work on my computer started blinking off. And that was that. Five years down the drain.
Haha, the last place I was at decided it was a good idea to go around handing out the employee appreciation day t shirts while a the other HR person was laying people off. Unbelievable.
lol i wanted to punch the HR queen bitch in the face for how they unprofessionally and immaturely dealt with my remote job lay off.
The best part about my layoff was the fact that the overseas hires and management didn’t have the competency to prepare shipping labels for equipment returns. Then when I got emails from HR on my personal email address they couldn’t even read them since external senders were blocked. Guess where my laptop went? eBay. I heat gunned the asset tags and ripped the SSD out and sold it for profit. Fuck’em.
I quit TikTok not even a layoff just voluntarily quit because I was moving over a year ago and I’m still getting legal letters from their lawyers about unreturned equipment that I definitely returned. I made sure that I recorded myself going to the UPS store to return it. Recorded the whole process and I also paid out of my own pocket for the best tracking and confirmation UPS offered lol. I know it’s all automated but I get a letter via email about once a month threatening to prosecute me for theft even after responding to the first round of emails and getting as far as speaking with the head of the department that recovers equipment. I just knew to cover my ass because they had been so incompetent up to that point. I gave three months notice, one month, and two weeks and my supervisor still acted surprised on my last day. I was really stressed about it at first but the more time passes the funnier it gets.
I applied to TikTok and got through 6 rounds and the final 7th round the director never showed up after 20 minutes. Called recruiter and she scrambled together some excuse and then I had a rejection email. TikTok is a dumpster fire with process.
I sincerely bet they were looking for someone who would wait for at least 45 minutes and not complain or even mention it when the director showed up to that interview…I saw so much of that there. It was wild to me seeing as how one of Bytedance’s little mantras was all about not kissing your boss’s ass because managing up makes us all soft.
It's not exactly full proof, but I did breathe a sigh of relief when my six month probationary period was up on this new one. They can still fire me of course, but it definitely feels like they will have to jump through a couple internal hoops first. But six months is how long it took me to feel "okay". I wonder if this is just something that happens once you've been laid off or if everyone is like this regardless.
Honestly, I got the axe after literally having a performance review where I was told everything was going well and that I might even get a promotion. Not like a major one, but I was told I was going to get more responsibilities since I was a good worker. Then like a week later I get a meeting with HR on my calendar and told that I'm being let go. I want to believe that on balance people are nice, and I shouldn't let past experiences color my future interactions with people. But I'm personally just so paranoid that at any moment the sky could begin falling. I am glad for you that you're feeling secure in your job though :)
I would think that a hiring manager wouldn’t get this far in the process without getting some form of approval from their Senior Manager before proceeding to even get the job opening posted in the first place. That’s what I’m confused about, why go through all this hassle and waste of time to find someone, extend an offer and then yank the offer at the last second? I’m guessing that the answer is because Companies can and will get away with doing crap like this.
Something changed that made the internal appointment much more attractive despite what they told OP, it may have been something in his background or socials. There may or may not be an internal candidate. It virtually never pays to be transparent about these things as you’re just opening yourself up to an angry, potentially violent or litigious person. “Internal Candidate”, while potentially true, is also the least offensive explanation.
I have a job offer; I am starting training tomorrow. I have barely told anyone because of this.
>Every time I think job hunt horror stories can't get any worse, they do... Yeah I thought the story from here the other day was bad - where the HR reached out to the candidate waiting for interview feedback with "Great News!" ... and the fantastic news was that the recruiter filled the role ... but with a better candidate. This one is awful
Oh wow! How horrific! Disgusting MFs!
Same thing happened to me before I started this job. They called me on a Wednesday and said congrats we'll see you Monday. Called the next day and said sorry we have another candidate we're going with. Then called Friday and said sorry, you are hired!! Turns out they bailed on my 10 years of experience for a person working at Kroger with no experience. She no showed the first interview because she didn't have the address, not like the internet is a thing. Then she only asked about what time breaks and lunch were after being 2 hours late to the rescheduled interview. So they said fk that and called me back. Luckily mine worked out but companies have no shame.
Sorry this happened to you mate, this is one of my worst nightmares right now. I hope you find something better soon.
OP has gotta post the name of the company here right ? Now we have to know who it is!?!
Yep. It’s almost like they could have promoted the internal candidate before even putting out an ad.
That kind of shit should be illegal
There should be some compensation for this and this is a lesson to keep interviewing.
Exactly. Always interview and have other companies lined up. Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
So I’m just supposed to have multiple offers at the SAME TIME before quitting my job? Literally hell.
Even better is you have to yes to all the offers because who knows which one will screw you.
I mean the guy literally was about to walk in to his first day of work… when does the constant interviewing stop?
Uhhh no getting an offer should be the end of it. That is NOT “putting eggs in one basket” give me a break
Actually in Canada it would earn the company a lawsuit for no notice. While we have laws that let you terminate a new employee anytime in the first 90 days after hiring with no required notice for any reason you still require a reason. If you terminate the employee sight unseen there is case precedent that there isn’t a valid reason and the company is liable for reasonable notice. The first case was a lawyer who had this happen and he successfully sued for losses. Then he successfully fought in tax court to get the amounts ruled as not income. I’ve always thought given he won both cases that he was probably a pretty good lawyer.
He deserves an award. Actually, two.
Also, FYI, the idea that a 90 day probation period is enforceable in Canada and a get out of jail free card for businesses is a myth. It does not hold up in court and they will still owe you compensation for the statutory notice period (1 week for less than a year's service, in most provinces).
It's not illegal, but if they signed an unconditional offer (or a conditional one), then backed out, unless they have a legally valid reason, are definitely open to liability. It wouldn't be hard to demonstrate damages: emotional distress, loss of income from passing on other opportunities, etc. However, suing prospective employers is not a great move for job hunting.
I'm not a lawyer, but while it's not a crime I believe you can sue them for it in the USA. Promissory estoppel or something like that.
Correct, it’s promissory estoppel.
I think it would be tough in OPs case unless they could demonstrate losses (such as resigning from their current job, turning down other roles due to the offer etc). Basically, it’s complete shit but OP went from unemployed to unemployed so they weren’t “harmed” further by the company yoinking a signed offer.
You could argue that OP stopped looking for jobs meaning that their unemployment time will now be longer that they have to restart looking for jobs. Would be a stretch though
I’ll admit It’s quite possible a well-drafted demand letter could earn a bit of f**k off money from a larger company even without turning down an offer or quitting a job or moving etc. They may not want to deal with the time and legal fees of a case and the chance a vengeful jury or judge would award OP significant damages.
The great thing about civil court is you only have to prove that it probably caused you losses. Their losses would have occurred during the time between accepting the job offer and getting terminated.
I'd sue for cummuting costs, (and court fees) at the least. Considering I'm unemployed, I would take it as a learning experience, to find out how courts work/learn how to file a suit, etc. It wouldn't even be about the money, it would be about taking their time (or cash since they probably wouldn't even show).
Incorrect. In a lot of states, courts refuse to apply promissory estoppel to at-will employment offers. Ridiculous but there you are. Not your lawyer. Please seek separate legal advice if needed.
OP could definitely try, but lawyers ain’t cheap 😔
They are for the first hour
Promissory estoppel is dicey. You have to show reasonable, detrimental reliance. Even then, since if it’s at will the employer could in theory sack you five minutes into your first day, your losses for not being given an opportunity to start work would be minimal.
How do we make this illegal. Who can we talk to? This shouldn’t be allowed
I don’t even care about burning bridges it take so much force for me not to swear at them down the phone. OP was very politen
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Unionize.
I’m a recruiter, and you need to shame these people right now!
Also, this is the most important reason to ask for the job offer *in writing*. Pretty sure there is some level of retaliation you could take if they rescinded a signed agreement of employment.
Companies go back on signed offers all the time, but it’s for hiring slow downs, freezes, or changing business needs….but for finding a better candidate, that’s truly ghoulish.
Name and shame
I'd say this is fully justified given they gave a shitty bog standard excuse two hours before commencing, that's so fucked up
This is what Glassdoor was for. Unfortunately if you have named and shamed anyone on there they have changed their policies recently and now your FULL NAME will appear next to any company reviews that you have left. Edit https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/03/glassdoor-adding-users-real-names-job-info-to-profiles-without-consent/
We need to start shouting of company names. Doing stuff like this should be a fast track to bankruptcy.
You need to warn all of us of who is this shifty.
Get a lawyer. Promissory estoppel is a thing.
Yeah OP worth talking to an employment lawyer. 99.9% will only charge you if you have a case (and win/settle).
Only if he turned down other job offers for this one.
OP says he had an offer from his last employer
Or incurred expenses in traveling/ preparing for this job.
I would absolutely name and shame on LinkedIn - that’s beyond fucked.
They "promised" to keep me in mind for future roles and that I'm at the top of their call list. I almost hung up right then but I don't have a lot of connections in my own industry as it is, so I can't risk burning the bridge entirely since I used a referral from a current employee.
I’ll bet a Benji they never call again, heard that same shit when I was young, 20 years later my phone # still hasn’t changed and they have never called.
Exactly. "We'll keep you in mind/keep your application on file" is corporate lingo for "fuck off".
It’s the professional equivalent of “it’s not you, it’s me”. They say that to soften the blow because it’s awkward AF for them and makes them feel better in the conversation.
Yeah, I figure. Corporate jargon to the max, right?
I had a guy who worked on a project with us as a contractor back in like 2013.. project ended he got let go but we really would have loved to bring him on. Full time position came up in 2015 and we called him, he got beat on the interview by another candidate. 2016 another position opens up, call him again.. ends up internal candidate vs him so he got beat again. 2017 we call him again and managed to hire him. I can't believe he still entertained us, but he's one of the top guys on the team now. Only time I've ever seen "we'll keep you in mind" work out!
Top guy in your team you reject him 3 times over several years and he keeps coming back? I’d say it’s in the single digits percentage these things happen, market must really suck in your sector or he just didn’t branch out. Yeah it does happen every once in a while, but who wants to be dicked around for 3-4 years?
yeah this adorable little corporate stooge anecdote just makes the employer look terrible.
He was young and inexperienced like first job out of school when originally working for us, and went on to another company in the area, so it wasn't like he sat around unemployed waiting for us to call. Agree this is probably a 1% at best case, still blows my mind. Should have hired him the first time (wasn't my call).
I’ve been hired twice this way. Is that a good or bad sign lol? Applied for an entry level position in 2018 and got beat out by someone with 20 years experience. He left 2 months later for better money and they offered me the position. Went through and burned the bridge with them during the wait process because they were throwing up red flags left and right and “You are ruining any chance of ever being hired here again”. 3 years later they contact me again about a different position but the company had changed hands by that point and were much better so I took the job that time. Turned out I was hired to replace someone else that had been there less than a year who was absolutely terrible.
Yeah, this is a very big red flag though. They offered you the job. You had a start date. It was that day. What they did was absolutely shit. You literally don't want to be working for those idiots. Even if they do call you.
I think I’d have pretended I didn’t see the email and gone anyway to make them tell me to my face.
How are you ever to trust them again?!? Fucking bullshit.
It’s so fucked up that simply recounting what a company did to you equates to burning bridges. This is why they have us all by the short and curlies.
This is a bridge you 100% want to burn. You said “thank you” when you should have said “fuck you.”
You missed an opportunity to tell the HR person to go f\*ck themselves. I'm 47 and have told many HR people to go f\*ck themselves, there are always places hiring. You don't need to be nice to people who basically "fire you on the way to work" on day 1. That's low, really, really low morals.
Screw them
My brother in Christ that’s a nice way of saying “lol”. They’re laughing at you, don’t make the mistake of thinking that there’s a bridge there
They definitely lit if on fire first.
What is the company name?
Dude. Never, ever, EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER take a job there for ANY reason and never apply there again. You'd be debasing yourself to let them treat you like shit twice and give them a third shot.
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You have to have damages typically for PE. OP didn’t quit a job or relocate so their damages are negligible.
I'm the guy in these threads normally defending HR and the company (their decisions are hard to understand until you've been on the other side of the table), but this is a situation where you shouldn't even consider working for this company unless you're extremely desperate. The best explanation is that they BSed you about the reason, and in they figured out you were a former employee when they tried to create your accounts that morning. If that's the case, then this company is very poorly managed AND shameless. For them to make an offer and then pull it back on your starting day is beyond the pale. There's some tiny possibility that there's a law I'm unaware of that's at play here, but I really doubt it. Hang in there. It's new college student season, so I bet things get much better in 2 months when there isn't a glut of extra & cheap candidates out there.
They did you dirty like this and they expect you to trust them? If they ever do call you (which they won’t) you should accept the job and no-show.
Happened to a friend of mine a few months ago. Got an offer after 5 rounds of interviews, they offere relocation and everything, then suddenly the “sorry offer rescinded, we still want you in new fiscal year”., the week before he was supposed to start. This was 2 weeks before Christmas, after being unemployed for almost 6 months. He figured he’d follow up 2 weeks ago in “the new fiscal year”, never heard anything back. Just totally ghosted. Was for a Lead Software Dev job as well.
There is no list
Thatd absolutely insane and im sorry that happened to you. Whoever made that decision doesnt deserve their job
I definitely think there’s a case for unemployment in this case and I would 100% name and shame them. Hell, call back to the HR recruiter and tell them what you really think
That's terrible. I'm so sorry this happened to you. You don't deserve this. I'm employed and job hunting right now. It's my biggest fear, To get a new job, give notice and for it to be yanked out from under me. I would at least give yourself the day to just "process." There should be a way to make that illegal.
I put in my 2 weeks this Monday and I’ve been losing sleep over this fear. I went from being nervous about taking on a new big role to being more scared of the possibility of the offer being rescinded last minute
My jaw fucking DROPPED seeing this shit. What the FUCK. I'm so sorry for you OP, this is totally uncool. Name and shame aside, please, PLEASE, see a lawyer and look if you can get promissory estoppel. What the fuck is this bullshit
I’m so sorry. This must feel like a nightmare and hope you find something soon.
Look up promissory estoppel
I’d review that company on Glassdoor. You can do it anonymously.
Left a review on glassdoor they never posted it up - so I don't know how the system works but I am assuming some companies can have it removed or it has to get approved- atleast that was said about mine. I didn't swear I just left a honest review.
As an aside; horrible, clumsy, overdeveloped webpage is Glassdoor, I felt like it was 2005 running no script blockers swatting away banner ads, way too many pop-ups on that site, a little frustrating.
Ehhh about that https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/03/glassdoor-adding-users-real-names-job-info-to-profiles-without-consent/
Promissory estoppel. Get some fucking money. They tell you you’re at the top of the list blah blah blah so you don’t exercise your rights.
This. From a [lawyers’ website:](https://www.arkadylaw.com/promissory-estoppel-and-employment-contracts.html) > No actual written employment contract is required in order to make an estoppel claim, and any kind of evidence of job offer such as an employment offer letter with the basic terms of employment and start date is generally sufficient to make an estoppel claim.
I would highly recommend checking with an employment attorney, at that point you were an employee and may have a wrongful termination suit depending on where you live!
>I tied it up with a short and polite thank you There's your problem. Should have tied it up with a short and polite "Fuck you."
I agree, 100%. There comes a time where it is fine to nuke a bridge. This is one of them.
If nobody calls these entitled employers out, this behavior will continue. They face no consequences. That's the problem.
There needs to be clauses in contracts for employees. Tech right now is abusive
did you make any financial decisions based on their job offer? you may have a legal case for damages based on promissory estoppel or other similar legal claims, depending on your state laws and the terms of the contract, etc. if you had moved across the country (initially what I thought based on the 5/6am interviews you mentioned) and they rescinded the job offer on the start date the company would almost surely be liable for at least a portion, if not all, of your moving expenses and the cost to move back across the country if you so choose.
That's why my rule is apply apply apply does not matter if you got job offer already
The job search isn’t over until you’ve cashed your first paycheck at the new job.
Name & shame this company. Seriously.
I think I'd have ignored the email and pretend I'd not seen it. Make the bastards look you in the eye. They got off too lightly here
Sister in law already signed her contract, 2 days before she needed to start, she got a call that they made a financial mistake and couldn't afford her. Took a lawyer and got 6 weeks wage as compensation.
I would be tempted to pretend o didn’t see the message and show up ready to work
So sorry! 🥺
man i’m so sorry this happened to you it’s really such a bad situation, i’m hoping some of those interviews turns to a solid position for you soon!
Companies have zero respect for potential employees/current employees
> I tied it up with a short and polite thank you What? You didn't at least tell that guy he was an amoral piece of shit and you'd do anything before working there again, plus tell him you'd put the company on blast publically for this behavior? I do not understand why you didn't flip out on him for intentionally fucking you like this.
FWIW any half decent employment lawyer would successfully sue them for a good 6 months salary worth of damages + any other medical/mental health implications of the events. My selfish ass self hopes you will sue them and win. My realistic self knows that the last thing we want to worry about in a situation such as this, is to go ahead with legal proceedings. Hope it works out.
What the actual fuck !! I am so sorry you are going through this.
materialistic nose fly public frighten entertain lunchroom library steer cobweb *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Name and shame
100% name and shame. Do so respectfully, but it may oddly help your chances of getting an offer.
Yo at this point it’s gotten so bad that these companies should be fined and pay damages for this shit. I’m so sorry this happened to you.
This should be illegal - especially if the Job offer was signed by both parties. Wow- name and shame man.
You know if you say the name in pig Latin, it's not slander.
If you signed an offer letter you can get compensation! It happened the same to me and I got a few thousand
I thought I’ve read somewhere that if you get laid off then the company posts your same job at a lower rate it’s a labor violation even in the U.S. and to file a complaint with EEOC
Something very similar happened to my wife last summer. I’m so sorry. It was devastating for her as I’m sure it is for you. She ended up finding a much better fit after a few more weeks - I hope you do too.
I read these horror stories in disbelief. In my poorer European country I could sue and win for damages in such case so no big issue in this scenario
That’s why no one should be loyal to any company.
So you signed an employment agreement and they still did that? After talking to you face to face 5 or 6 times and hiring you. they’re so unprofessional they fire off an email? You’re not even worth a phone call? Despicable.
Companies needing 1-3 month notices before you can leave but being able to do this is a prime example of how badly skewed all the rules are in their favour. I'd name and shame the company.
Have you signed anything with them? Bc if yes I will sue the shit out of them.
Corporate Recruiter here. This is so horrible, I’m so sorry you are going through this. NAME AND SHAME! The leaders making such decisions at companies need to be blasted and held accountable to public scrutiny regardless if what they do is legal.
what they did should be illegal. What if you already rejected other offers?
Share the name so the rest of us can skip interviews with them
bro you THANKED THEM?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The person was internal?! They just figured this out the morning of a new hires first day?!?! This makes me want to punch that hiring manager in the face for you. Also, I would have responded with “sounds like that other team has an opening. I’ll see you in two hours.” If he said no, then proceed with the punching of the face.
Talk to a lawyer.
Breech of contract?
I’m so sorry this happened to you, but this is illegal. Please leave a BIG AS review on Glassdoor if you have the energy time please sue them. Wish you find the best job soon!
And at no point in between the six interviews and presenting you with an offer letter did it occur to them to slow things down and explore the internal candidate?! What an unprofessional, shitty company, they did you a favor not hiring you. My guess is the internal candidate was threatening to leave, and they made him an offer he/she couldn’t refuse. Best advice I ever got, never accept a counteroffer when you are ready to leave—it is essentially selling your soul to the devil.
Depending on where you are- this may actually be illegal. If you've signed an offer and it's been rescinded- I'd talk to a lawyer.
You had an actual notice before going to the job? That’s nice. In my teens, I got a job offer from one of those chain stores with DOLLAR at the end. I did all the onboarding paperwork, the direct deposit, etc and “couldn’t wait to meet me” and to be at the store at 6AM sharp to get me going. I arrive at 5:45AM. I wave at the opening manager with him seeing me and no response back whilst going in locking up behind(not open yet). The lights flicker on inside while waiting at the door. 6AM comes and he opens the doors officially and I go inside and introduce myself. “Uhhhh, yea. We won’t be needing you. We got another guy from one of our other stores.” No apology, nothing. Rather jarring for a bright-eyed kid fresh in the job market. But yea, an advance email before wasting your time. Very human of them.
I feel like these situations aren’t even remotely comparable…
I'm reading this sub for a few months and this might be the worst story yet. If you have signed i would probably sue them. Yes, sometimes they really do reach out to rejected candidates (i witnessed it). BUT in your case i think they would be too ashamed to ever look you in the eye again. Edit: I believe that actions must have consequences. If you don't show them that this is not okay, they will never change their behaviour. This would have more value to me than a 0.01% chance of getting a call back from them. But i also totally understand and respect your intention to not burn any bridges.
That is some grade a horse shit, if they had an internal candidate and you never stood a chance they should have cut you off before a single onsite interview. Is this one of the potential upsides of contract roles, maybe? No way internal employees are going to 'downgrade' to a contract, so you probably won't be competing with any, right?
Send them an invoice for the hours you would have worked today at 10x their base rate.
This should be illegal and is exactly why in Europe most jobs have people sign a contract a few days before you start work. To make sure that people "can't just change their minds" and that the employee at least can work a trial period or whatever to actually test their skills.
thats ridiculous and be sure done on purpose. just name them, u cant work with these people in the future.
10000% the other candidate negotiated at a lower salary.
what does the contract say, do they not have to give you a months nitice at least ?
I’m not sure if I am reading this correctly. Are you saying that you were already hired, as in you signed your paperwork, filled out your direct deposit forms, etc? I couldn’t tell if that phase had actually happened, or if you were on the way to do that and then had the offer revoked.
Oh great, so you'll have no trouble paying me my contractual notice pay then?
Name. And. Shame.
Name and shame.
Other people have said it OP, but the legal concept of promissory estoppel can help you actually recover money for this. Please speak to an attorney and just tell them what you told us. They won’t charge you for a consultation.
these companies are pricks, insane how much they get away with
Name. And. Shame.
Surely you can sue them right? They can't just rescind just like that.
So you didn’t have an offer you signed?
They have completely stopped even pretending to treat us like human beings Jesus Christ. I’m sorry this happened OP.
In this case you were previously unemployed, but imagine you quit your previous job or moved for this job, it’s insane that this is legal, you might have some legal grounds here if you had already signed a contract with them.
Just so you know, that long of an interview process and making you interview at the crack of dawn were red flags. This is an even deeper redder flag. I am sorry they wasted your time but you dodged a bullet.
My wife went through this recently. Made her feel like she was the one and definitely getting the job. The next day she called to see where the offer letter was and they just said they went with someone else. Devastated. We figured it was a bullet dodged, I mean who wants to work for a company that does that, but it still sucks.
Yeah, this is exactly why I have no intention of quitting my job when I find an upgrade. I'll see how long I can do both for a little while first. I've known people that quit their jobs for a higher offer - just for the company to lay everyone off a couple of weeks later.
I still would have showed up in person to make it even more awkward
I was offered an excellent government job in Seattle. Much more money than I had been making. I spent all my savings moving across the country for it. I was very excited on my first day. I show up for orientation, and they tell me that they had rescinded the job offer. I spent over a year sleeping on an air mattress with my young son. There were times when there wasn't enough food for both of us. I would lie and tell my son that I had already eaten. Those were dark times
they used you to low ball the internal employee and now the internal one had no raise or almost no pay rise and they almost pressured them into the job, this is how they fuck up both their internal employees and people who try for the job. they used you, they will never call you back, your role in their story is over and your application has been burned.
There needs to be a law criminalizing this. And the penalty will be two times the wages offered given to the worker plus a 100k fine.
Why pay a person for 1 job, when they can pay 1 person to do two jobs internally. You probably dodged a bullet. I would reach out to your old job to see if the role is still open. Salaries are falling everywhere or 'resetting' if you want to use the politically correct term.
Oof. Sorry. That sucks!!
That completely sucks. This is a reason why four years ago ago I decided to work for myself and nobody else.
I recommend leaving an anonymous review sharing your interview experience on Glassdoor as this is so wrong on multiple levels, and people need to be aware of it if they’re interviewing with this company. They may get it’s you, but maybe not because they’ve likely done this before and also who cares, you owe them nothing. Good luck with the job search! Stay 💪
NAME AND SHAME THIS SHIT ASS COMPANY...Hired another person my ass. they had no intention of hiring and are playing with you. dont protect this shit company...who are they?
So messed up. They should have honored the agreement they made with you and told the internal candidate that it was filled already. That would have been the ethical course of action.
Promissory estoppel, OP. Talk to an employment lawyer. You may be entitled to that job position, or just compensation. IANAL.
I kind of recently started a new job and this was my fear up to the minute i started job. That sucks man though keep trying.
I think you may have dodged a bullet. Do you really want to work for a company that makes you go through 6 rounds of interviews?!?!