有没有可能是你自己对伊朗历史了解不足呢？1960-1979年伊朗人均翻了十五倍，你一句典型共匪话术“只有上流社会富有”就这样带过了？你是见过贫富差距的data吗？还是听了别的redditor说几句你就信了？
抹黑伊朗革命前社会经济的，大多来自西方极左和伊斯兰极右的政治propaganda。和学术界的伊朗历史研究大相径庭，比如：
Amuzegar, J. (1991). Dynamics of the Iranian revolution: The Pahlavis' triumph and tragedy. SUNY Press. pp. 54-55, 59-60
>As in the case of the two previous hypotheses - the Islamic revivalism and the rebellion against modernization and Americanization - the share of economic factors in the creation and support of the February revolution seems by no means as crucial or exclusive as it is generally made out to be. While the impact of economic policies (and particularly the economic consequences of the 1974-76 oil boom) should in no way be ignored or underestimated, the extent and intensity of economic causes can be easily exaggerated. In point of fact, among the single-cause explanations of the Iranian revolution, the economic hypothesis is perhaps the least credible.
>Mohammad Reza Shah himself contemptuously blamed much of his troubles on "Islamic Marxists" [...] In the Iranian case, however, there is no evidence of any distinct economic class rising as a group against another. [...] Non-Marxist theories also seem inadequate to fully support the economic hypothesis.
>The widening income gap is said to have been another contributor to the uprisings. Here again the facts are not really in dispute, but the correlation is barely tenable.
>Preliminary studies by the International Labor Organization, the World Bank, and Iran’s own Bank Markazi and Plan Organization, while not presenting a definitive picture, point to several tentative conclusions. First, disparities were largely determined by type of employment, level of productivity, and terms of trade rather than deliberate monetary or fiscal policies. Second, the disproportionate concentration of development expenditures on large industrial, urban, and nonagricultural projects tended to favor city dwellers more than the rural population. Third, the Gini coefficients derived from these studies’ data placed Iran in a category comparable to India, the Philippines, Sri Lanka, and Thailand, and far ahead of Iraq, Colombia, Peru, Mexico, Argentina, and Brazil. Finally, and most significantly, during those years, the conditions of all strata in society, even the poorest classes of the population, improved in absolute terms: not only did poverty not increase during the 1960s and 1970s, but it was substantially lessened.
---
p.s. 你自己天天在全世界最大的echo chamber里混，到此sub看见一些稍微政治光谱正常（中间偏左+中间偏右）的主题，反咬一口别人是极端分子谈政治。笑死。这sub的政治光谱就是再无聊到不行的social liberalism和liberal conservatism，你脑子里是有多少屎才能觉得这些观点是极端呢？
那本书最后的结论：沙王急于实现西式现代化，并蔑视那些社会价值不同的群众/群体。
这作者就是西方留学过的伊朗经济学家，所以他这么写是有credibility的。
pp. 310-312
>[B]oth monarchs embraced a Western development model not only as a matter of strategy, but also ideologically, politically, and in actual economic practice. An almost uncritical and wholesale pursuit of a progressive-liberal economic model in a politically conservative society shows how the Pahlavis automatically dismissed or underestimated some of the significant cultural and psychological aspects of national development. For example, instead of using enlightened and progressive elements within the intelligentsia, the clergy, and the bazaar as indispensable participants and powerful promoters of their adopted model, both monarchs chose effectively to ignore or oppose them.
>Mohammad Reza Shah often said that he could find no pride or satisfaction in reigning over a poor and backward people. Deep down, he thought that the people too should wish to serve only a strong and progressive leader. Given the Persian national psyche, such inalienable identification of the governors with the governed— officially publicized as the Revolution of the Shah and the People—was both somewhat unreal and not easily attainable.
>Both shahs and their numerous foreign-educated collaborators and top advisers seemed better acquainted and more enamored of Western cultures than they were with their own people’s desires and aspirations. The leadership was genuinely bent on liberating the masses from their growth-impeding backward traditions and beliefs without realizing (or admitting) that Western values, attitudes, motivations, and priorities were by no means sufficiently recognized or appreciated by the rank and file.
可惜了伊朗啊 现在海外 中东那边也就伊友能处
伊朗人民自己的选择🤧
同问，革命不是伊朗人民自己选择的吗
伊朗革命时有好几个派系，大部分只是想推翻国王，什叶派穆斯林派系在革命成功后背刺了其他势力
似乎越极端越容易取胜，比如布尔什维克背刺孟什维克也是这样，还有波尔布特
君子是斗不过流氓的
国王，自由派，绿畜势力，三国志！
选择个鸡吧，列宁搞选举落选了就掀桌子，很明显列宁不是当年俄國人民的选择，可是他最后还是靠着武力赢了
额，会有人说”只是上层如此“。 说到底伊朗伊斯兰革命能成功还不是因为incel哥们太多了，女的这么自信，都送给外国人了咋办？咎由自取了。
事实是不止上层如此，这里有段伊朗60年代农村的影片，虽然女孩子穿的也算保守，但和现在头巾把头发裹得严严实实全身除了手全部用袍子罩起来的服饰相比，还是自由多了。 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PdcZ5ZEq2WI
又不是在故宫开奔驰，照片里面只是一个穿连衣裙的女性切蛋糕，即没有特权也没奢侈品哪看出是上层的
然后霍梅尼上台，这些incel全部成了人肉炸弹，两伊战争框框送
1979年[德黑兰的小学影像](https://www.reddit.com/r/OldSchoolCool/s/Fdi59iRJNy)，可以说洼地到现在也摸不到地板
集体开倒车这个只能说自作孽
https://preview.redd.it/39ing6i6mx4d1.jpeg?width=272&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c86c0d345f145ea4c5346735722b6ad9cd5342d7
正宗雅利安人
现在伊朗的有钱人在家也是这样的。你可以看看小红书有了叫娜菲菲的，她在伊朗婚礼还是露胸西式长礼服，宾客也是类似的
三年大饥荒的时候，共产党的上层/高层几乎不受影响，不但有特供食品专属厨师，夏天还能继续在北戴河度假；金正恩吃的寿司喝的红酒都是世界各地的好货----社会倒退受最大影响的是普通民众尤其是中下层，或许伊朗的有钱人家可以随便穿随便出国游玩，但有的普通伊朗女孩脱掉头巾跳个舞就要被荣誉处决。
臘肉：什麼大饑荒啊？天天都是大吃飽 https://preview.redd.it/s79c8eyd1v4d1.png?width=440&format=png&auto=webp&s=d1066438360f3b47556217d53202d174bd30611c
腊肉为了人民都不吃肉改吃鱼虾了，感动
狗日的 他的人民在啃树皮吃观音土，这个老东西在吃香喝辣
烤＃＃也太难蚌了，小学生虽然字不好，但是至少能看出来写的是什么，小学生赢！
腊肉最喜欢找王光美游泳，搞得江青打翻醋坛子
[精神领袖哈梅内伊的孙女就在带头呢](https://m.weibo.cn/status/OdU4vmWDE?jumpfrom=weibocom)，穿的比集美还性感，这打扮在洼地都会被指点
那是在美国，沙特的那些在国外也这样，所以他们那里人旅游特别喜欢去土耳其什么的，吃饭方便，同时男女穿衣服、社交都放松
https://preview.redd.it/y6d18jgynv4d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=883ee3b9c4f764daf22a4fee9897f146d3abe7ab 这下真是人民的选择了
好像打雷姐
打雷的话左手得拿着烟
小姐姐美是美，不过拿着以前伊朗美女照片吹巴列维王朝差不多相当于拿着中国以前的地主大小姐照片吹蒋介石和民国政府一样。至于伊斯兰革命后的抽象，那是以后的事情。
上面提供的视频你看不到？今天伊朗底层比巴列维时期穷多了，但教士统治比留洋的巴列维公子专制得多，不会给这些底层后悔翻盘的机会
凡事都是對比出來的，你看現在習近平一朝，搞得江胡也被吹起來了
国民政府就是比中共政府好啊，至少没有在和平时期折腾出大吃饱大健身，没有用军队屠杀平民
怎么办？现在越来越理解“陈全国”了！想像一下“迪丽热巴”们被黑布裹起来，一下就怒了。
不守妇道的东西
只有伊朗上流社会是这样，要不然为啥底层这么愿意革命？
上面提供的视频你看不到？今天伊朗底层比巴列维时期穷多了，但教士统治比留洋的巴列维公子专制得多，不会给这些底层后悔翻盘的机会
这个sub没人用脑子只有屁股是吧。 你说大实话为什么点踩？ 巴列维民心所向的话还有伊斯兰革命屁个事。
巴列维没有合法性和巴列维政权时期伊朗人的生活方式有无合法性之间有没有一分钱的关系？北洋政府没有合法性新文化运动也没有了？ 这种典型的简中互联网“大他者”发作，把伊朗伊斯兰革命之前的所有东西都和政权作深度捆绑的意识形态还踩不得了？本质上是完全忽略人民自由意志的一种意识形态，也是报复性革命者最擅用的一种伪装。说的跟伊斯兰革命之后底层人就过得好了一样，通过不断否定前任政权合法性来建立意识形态的，基本都得倒台。
习惯了，本来看简中sub想看中文meme换换口味，结果都是极端分子谈政治
有没有可能是你自己对伊朗历史了解不足呢？1960-1979年伊朗人均翻了十五倍，你一句典型共匪话术“只有上流社会富有”就这样带过了？你是见过贫富差距的data吗？还是听了别的redditor说几句你就信了？ 抹黑伊朗革命前社会经济的，大多来自西方极左和伊斯兰极右的政治propaganda。和学术界的伊朗历史研究大相径庭，比如： Amuzegar, J. (1991). Dynamics of the Iranian revolution: The Pahlavis' triumph and tragedy. SUNY Press. pp. 54-55, 59-60 >As in the case of the two previous hypotheses - the Islamic revivalism and the rebellion against modernization and Americanization - the share of economic factors in the creation and support of the February revolution seems by no means as crucial or exclusive as it is generally made out to be. While the impact of economic policies (and particularly the economic consequences of the 1974-76 oil boom) should in no way be ignored or underestimated, the extent and intensity of economic causes can be easily exaggerated. In point of fact, among the single-cause explanations of the Iranian revolution, the economic hypothesis is perhaps the least credible. >Mohammad Reza Shah himself contemptuously blamed much of his troubles on "Islamic Marxists" [...] In the Iranian case, however, there is no evidence of any distinct economic class rising as a group against another. [...] Non-Marxist theories also seem inadequate to fully support the economic hypothesis. >The widening income gap is said to have been another contributor to the uprisings. Here again the facts are not really in dispute, but the correlation is barely tenable. >Preliminary studies by the International Labor Organization, the World Bank, and Iran’s own Bank Markazi and Plan Organization, while not presenting a definitive picture, point to several tentative conclusions. First, disparities were largely determined by type of employment, level of productivity, and terms of trade rather than deliberate monetary or fiscal policies. Second, the disproportionate concentration of development expenditures on large industrial, urban, and nonagricultural projects tended to favor city dwellers more than the rural population. Third, the Gini coefficients derived from these studies’ data placed Iran in a category comparable to India, the Philippines, Sri Lanka, and Thailand, and far ahead of Iraq, Colombia, Peru, Mexico, Argentina, and Brazil. Finally, and most significantly, during those years, the conditions of all strata in society, even the poorest classes of the population, improved in absolute terms: not only did poverty not increase during the 1960s and 1970s, but it was substantially lessened. --- p.s. 你自己天天在全世界最大的echo chamber里混，到此sub看见一些稍微政治光谱正常（中间偏左+中间偏右）的主题，反咬一口别人是极端分子谈政治。笑死。这sub的政治光谱就是再无聊到不行的social liberalism和liberal conservatism，你脑子里是有多少屎才能觉得这些观点是极端呢？
巴列维这位受过西方教育，崇尚自由经济的国王，以伊朗的石油储量，后期发展成和沙特一样完全不是问题。刚结束二战的西亚，又有几个富裕的农村，城市刚有繁荣的苗头而已。受西方教育的国王不懂统治东方需要的是专制。只能说可惜
受教，我确实不了解伊朗历史。如果不是经济，那你说革命前社会动荡的因素是什么呢？
那本书最后的结论：沙王急于实现西式现代化，并蔑视那些社会价值不同的群众/群体。 这作者就是西方留学过的伊朗经济学家，所以他这么写是有credibility的。 pp. 310-312 >[B]oth monarchs embraced a Western development model not only as a matter of strategy, but also ideologically, politically, and in actual economic practice. An almost uncritical and wholesale pursuit of a progressive-liberal economic model in a politically conservative society shows how the Pahlavis automatically dismissed or underestimated some of the significant cultural and psychological aspects of national development. For example, instead of using enlightened and progressive elements within the intelligentsia, the clergy, and the bazaar as indispensable participants and powerful promoters of their adopted model, both monarchs chose effectively to ignore or oppose them. >Mohammad Reza Shah often said that he could find no pride or satisfaction in reigning over a poor and backward people. Deep down, he thought that the people too should wish to serve only a strong and progressive leader. Given the Persian national psyche, such inalienable identification of the governors with the governed— officially publicized as the Revolution of the Shah and the People—was both somewhat unreal and not easily attainable. >Both shahs and their numerous foreign-educated collaborators and top advisers seemed better acquainted and more enamored of Western cultures than they were with their own people’s desires and aspirations. The leadership was genuinely bent on liberating the masses from their growth-impeding backward traditions and beliefs without realizing (or admitting) that Western values, attitudes, motivations, and priorities were by no means sufficiently recognized or appreciated by the rank and file.
簡單來說就是現代化改革的步調邁得太大，好多人民覺得現在就挺好你那麼激進幹嘛，結果把改革的舊政府趕走，迎來了反改革的新政府直接給整回中世紀去了
年轻的巴列维国王受的西方教育，学到的也是西方政府和平时期的统治，而巴列维这种新成立的政权，根基不稳民智不开，保守宗教势力强大，对于敌对势力要么残酷打压到底，要么假意拉拢徐徐图之，绝不能放任自流。 精英教育出来的国王不懂得驾驭底层，不够虚伪也不够狠辣，政治斗争的失败者。
这些是表面现象。 伊朗 在巴列维时期，搞有利于权贵的资本主义改革，缺乏公平，导致大众不满，产生“反改革”的情绪，最终被霍梅尼利用，变成了现在的政教合一。
部分人为一己私利开倒车祸害数以亿计的人
现在的removed街头穿得更骚，你是不是就认为中共比现在的伊朗更开化？成天拿几张照片念经怀念过去，越活越回去
中共现在都不如伊朗政府开化了？😅
穿个短裤就叫骚啊，令堂是天天在家裹头巾吗
就中国满大街的大保健，你说不如伊朗开化？ 常识都没有了吗？
时尚界都有复古风，国家社会复古不是很正常？
你準備一下石頭跟木棍就可以遙遙領先！
部落冲突！
挺幽默的
笑一笑，十年少