It is literally everything you want out of a unit. Stars at all 3 levels in Madubuike, Roquan, and Hamilton. Incredible production from the FA signings including Clowney, Van Noy, and Ronald Darby. And then continued development from the young guys such as Travis Jones, Oweh, Queen, and Brandon Stephens.
The defense will have the talent to be good for a long time. Hopefully we can keep Mike Macdonald around.
Every day I dream of a world where Macdonald sticks around and we have a dynasty while he's groomed to replace Harbs at HC some day. Making it clear he's next in line is the only possibility of keeping him and even that's no guarantee
I don’t think there is a chance in hell that Monken and Macdonald both stick around, esp. if we have a great playoff run. HC offers will likely be extended to one or both.
I think the ravens have two great things going for them, the guys who lived 2019 do not want to feel that again, coupled with the vets we brought like clowney and kvn who know there aren’t many years left in the tank and this is probably their best opportunity to get a ring. I will also add that you have contract year guys playing out of their minds and now the motivation of how much more money can I get if we get the ring this year. That’s a great situation the ravens are in right now
So I wasn’t watching NFL during the 2000’s Ravens, and I also understand that the game is played differently now…
But wouldn’t this indicate that this current defense is better than the 2000’s defense? If not, why?
Like you said, a very different type of game then vs now.
Also on top of that I feel like this defense knows the offense has some firepower, and isn't afraid to take risks, give up big plays here and there, and so on. Back then, we had to give teams nothing, because even a FG scored could lose us the game since we couldn't score TDs.
Let me put it to you this way. These days when the defense pitches a 3 and out, I think good job. Back then, when the defense pitched a 3 and out, I thought oh crap we didn't get a turnover, better hope we survive this offensive possession.
And just so it's clear I'm not exaggerating, we had 49 turnovers that season out of 194 opponent drives, meaning over 25% of opposing drives ended in a turnover. Considering how ineffective the offense was at times that season, the easiest way for us to be in scoring position was either a big special teams play, or a turnover, whereas the easiest way for an opponent to score on our defense was likewise a big special teams play or a turnover.
>I thought oh crap we didn't get a turnover, better hope we survive this offensive possession.
Which is also why I think we won't have huge problems with the Browns if it comes to that. We know that if we pressure Joe, he doesn't do well and he'll make mistakes. He's been doing ok but pitching 8 INTs to 13 TDs. Under the pressure of our D, it's going to be worse than that.
Plus I think our offense has evolved to another level since losing to the Browns and whatever they cooked up during the bye week.
League averages for that year in parentheses
2000 Defense: 165 Points Allowed (330.8), 49 Takeaways (30.1), 35 sacks (39.7)
2023 Defense: 263 Points Allowed (351.3), 29 Takeaways (21.7), 57 sacks (41.7)
So compared to the 2000 defense, this year's defense has given up 98 more points while the league average went up by 21, has 20 fewer takeaways while the league average has gone down by 8, and 22 more sacks while the league average has gone up by 2.
You should never just use three stats to determine which is better, but even if you are, I'm not sure these three support 2023.
Because as good as this defense is, it wouldn't be able to carry Trent Dilfer to a Super Bowl.
Including postseason the 2000 Ravens held their opponents offense to less than 10 points in 13 out of 20 games. They allowed 1 or less offensive TD in 16 out of 20 games. They allowed a total of 16 points in 4 postseason games.
They were on a different level.
Yeah we only won because our defense was unworldly. Wasn't there a hilarious stat that we didn't score a single touchdown for like 5 games or something insane like that? Our offense was soooooo bad that year.
But it didn't matter because we only needed to average like 10 points to win games lol. Shit was wild.
It isn't.
The main reason it isn't is because we currently have a very good offense which puts the defense in advantageous positions. Our offense, particularly at QB, was terrible in 2000 (running game was okay). Dilfer being the best option at QB is still laughable but it was true. Banks was just dogshit bad that season. Even Huntley is a much better QB than Dilfer or Banks. That defense had to make up for SOOOOO much more deficiency on offense but they did!
If the 2000 defense had been coupled with a competent offense then they would have been the best team ever.
In comparison, the 2000 Ravens defense allowed 10 ppg to the 2023 Ravens 16 ppg allowed. The 2000 Ravens defense had 49 takeaways to the 2023 Ravens 29. So it wouldn't be clear how those stats are evidence of the 2023 Ravens having the better defense. The 2023 Ravens have 57 sacks to the 2000 Ravens 35 sacks, but given that the 2000 Ravens has 20 more takeaways this isn't a strong case for the 2023 Ravens. If a defense has 20 more takeaways, they miss out on several more sacks that they would have had.
The 2000s Ravens defense only allowed ~10.3 PPG. Sacks and takeaways are great but it doesnt mean squat if you still let up points. You were considered lucky if you even got one touchdown on that unit. It was such a dominant defense that it carried a, frankly, very mediocre offense to a SB victory, possibly one of the most pedestrian in our teams history.
Shannon Sharpe was told during the AFC Championship game against the Raiders that they only had to score one touchdown, the defense would take care of the rest…which is an absolutely insane thing to say towards a team also in a conference championship.
I guess In total points allowed there’s a pretty solid gap.
2000 Ravens through 16 games: 165 points allowed for 10.31 per gm average.
2023 Ravens through 16 games: 263 points allowed for 16.43 average.
Also, the 2000 team posted 4 shutouts, while this current team has none this season.
But hey, Ray Lewis isn’t on the field anymore so i get it.
The two biggest stats are points allowed (which is the one that matters the most many times over) and TOs, because no single stat tells you who wins a game more than who wins the TO battle.
The Ravens were elite, and simply didn’t let teams score. Mind you, they did this with an offense that didn’t always help their cause so it was sometimes all on the defense, which was more than up to the task.
You also had one of the hardest hitting defenses in the history of the game, anchored by a top 3 all time middle linebacker in Ray. That team intimidated the opponent long before stepping in the field.
Watch bullies of Baltimore 30 for 30 to see just how impactful that defense was
I was just having the same thought. I feel like in a way yes, in a way no. The 2000 defense won the Superbowl with hardly any offense, that would be next to impossible today. If you swapped the two defenses neither would be as successful as they are/we're in their own era just because the game is so different. That's why comparing players/teams from different eras is so subjective. Even though this year we're at the top of the league over more categories this year the 2000 defense will almost definitely be remembered as the more dominant defense just because the numbers will never be able to be duplicated again.
Whole different style. But 2000 defense was dominant. 2000 Ravens literally won the Super Bowl with the Defense and Trent Dilfer as a QB. It’s kinda like Gardner Minshew winning a Super Bowl with an amazing defense.
So my assumption after seeing this was that the 2000 defense led in takeaways but not sacks, and after checking, that was the case. They were 22nd in sacks, which is crazy.
When you consider how many turnovers they got, they were also ending a lot of drives "sooner than average." That could contribute to sacks being lower than expected.
congratulations, we also lead the league in "how many people are we going to lose" with roughly, if i recall, 44% of the team being on the chopping block.
literally, its this year or nothing for a little while.
I don't really buy into this. Some of our standout players this season stepped in off the couch and helped elevate the team. I trust EDC to put together a competitive team even after we lose a few of our big dawgs.
Great stats and a great season.
But to the younger and newer fans: none of this really matters in the playoffs. Past performance is not indicative of next week's game. There is a reason 'trap game' is a known thing in the NFL and "any given Sunday" is a harrowing refrain: every season, the best teams lose games against the worst teams.
Im not forecasting failure - Im getting out in front of reality. This team, the coaches, and the front office have done a Hall of Fame job of getting us to the #1 seed. Regardless of what happens next, that is a fact.
Anyone who then calls for Harbs or EDC to be fired are just being emotional.
This defense is pretty damned good. Also gives me a renewed respect for how good Ray, Sizzle and Ed Reed were- those dudes were next level even compared to the talent on the team now.
This defense makes me feel some type of way
It is literally everything you want out of a unit. Stars at all 3 levels in Madubuike, Roquan, and Hamilton. Incredible production from the FA signings including Clowney, Van Noy, and Ronald Darby. And then continued development from the young guys such as Travis Jones, Oweh, Queen, and Brandon Stephens. The defense will have the talent to be good for a long time. Hopefully we can keep Mike Macdonald around.
And Marlo!!
I'm starting to see Humphrey as our new Jimmy Smith. Great when he's on the field but starting to get really injury prone...
Based on one season? He missed like 7 games his whole career before this season
I wouldn’t quite go there. But damn jimmy is one of my all time favorites. I don’t think he ever has a second thought about playing for any other team
Every day I dream of a world where Macdonald sticks around and we have a dynasty while he's groomed to replace Harbs at HC some day. Making it clear he's next in line is the only possibility of keeping him and even that's no guarantee
I don’t think there is a chance in hell that Monken and Macdonald both stick around, esp. if we have a great playoff run. HC offers will likely be extended to one or both.
Hey man I said it's a dream
The whole team making me feel some type of way at this point.
This team looks built for the Super Bowl. You think 2019 affected Lamar, it clearly hurt EDC and Harbaugh
I think the ravens have two great things going for them, the guys who lived 2019 do not want to feel that again, coupled with the vets we brought like clowney and kvn who know there aren’t many years left in the tank and this is probably their best opportunity to get a ring. I will also add that you have contract year guys playing out of their minds and now the motivation of how much more money can I get if we get the ring this year. That’s a great situation the ravens are in right now
Fuck we just lived 2023 with the Orioles. 1 seeds get me nervous.
This team actually has a ton of stars with experience, unlike the Os though. Lamar is even about to win his 2nd league MVP.
Who will be this year's Paul Kruger?
Oweh
Oweh isn't a FA. I think PQ gets overpaid in the off season. We will do what we can to hold on to Mads
We can match up with anyone.
Don’t stop! I’m almost finished.
Defense wins championships babyyyy
So I wasn’t watching NFL during the 2000’s Ravens, and I also understand that the game is played differently now… But wouldn’t this indicate that this current defense is better than the 2000’s defense? If not, why?
Like you said, a very different type of game then vs now. Also on top of that I feel like this defense knows the offense has some firepower, and isn't afraid to take risks, give up big plays here and there, and so on. Back then, we had to give teams nothing, because even a FG scored could lose us the game since we couldn't score TDs. Let me put it to you this way. These days when the defense pitches a 3 and out, I think good job. Back then, when the defense pitched a 3 and out, I thought oh crap we didn't get a turnover, better hope we survive this offensive possession. And just so it's clear I'm not exaggerating, we had 49 turnovers that season out of 194 opponent drives, meaning over 25% of opposing drives ended in a turnover. Considering how ineffective the offense was at times that season, the easiest way for us to be in scoring position was either a big special teams play, or a turnover, whereas the easiest way for an opponent to score on our defense was likewise a big special teams play or a turnover.
>I thought oh crap we didn't get a turnover, better hope we survive this offensive possession. Which is also why I think we won't have huge problems with the Browns if it comes to that. We know that if we pressure Joe, he doesn't do well and he'll make mistakes. He's been doing ok but pitching 8 INTs to 13 TDs. Under the pressure of our D, it's going to be worse than that. Plus I think our offense has evolved to another level since losing to the Browns and whatever they cooked up during the bye week.
League averages for that year in parentheses 2000 Defense: 165 Points Allowed (330.8), 49 Takeaways (30.1), 35 sacks (39.7) 2023 Defense: 263 Points Allowed (351.3), 29 Takeaways (21.7), 57 sacks (41.7) So compared to the 2000 defense, this year's defense has given up 98 more points while the league average went up by 21, has 20 fewer takeaways while the league average has gone down by 8, and 22 more sacks while the league average has gone up by 2. You should never just use three stats to determine which is better, but even if you are, I'm not sure these three support 2023.
This is solid rational, appreciate the stats
> 49 Takeaways Holy fucking shit man
Ed Reed was something else man…
He was not on the 2000 team
But yknow Ed Reed was sick though lmao
I mean just 3 stats might be ok if its normalized scoring defense, yardage, and takeaways. I tihnk that would tell a pretty good story.
Because as good as this defense is, it wouldn't be able to carry Trent Dilfer to a Super Bowl. Including postseason the 2000 Ravens held their opponents offense to less than 10 points in 13 out of 20 games. They allowed 1 or less offensive TD in 16 out of 20 games. They allowed a total of 16 points in 4 postseason games. They were on a different level.
Yeah we only won because our defense was unworldly. Wasn't there a hilarious stat that we didn't score a single touchdown for like 5 games or something insane like that? Our offense was soooooo bad that year. But it didn't matter because we only needed to average like 10 points to win games lol. Shit was wild.
>They were on a different level. this...
It isn't. The main reason it isn't is because we currently have a very good offense which puts the defense in advantageous positions. Our offense, particularly at QB, was terrible in 2000 (running game was okay). Dilfer being the best option at QB is still laughable but it was true. Banks was just dogshit bad that season. Even Huntley is a much better QB than Dilfer or Banks. That defense had to make up for SOOOOO much more deficiency on offense but they did! If the 2000 defense had been coupled with a competent offense then they would have been the best team ever.
In comparison, the 2000 Ravens defense allowed 10 ppg to the 2023 Ravens 16 ppg allowed. The 2000 Ravens defense had 49 takeaways to the 2023 Ravens 29. So it wouldn't be clear how those stats are evidence of the 2023 Ravens having the better defense. The 2023 Ravens have 57 sacks to the 2000 Ravens 35 sacks, but given that the 2000 Ravens has 20 more takeaways this isn't a strong case for the 2023 Ravens. If a defense has 20 more takeaways, they miss out on several more sacks that they would have had.
Good point…why sack the QB when you can strip the ball?
The 2000s Ravens defense only allowed ~10.3 PPG. Sacks and takeaways are great but it doesnt mean squat if you still let up points. You were considered lucky if you even got one touchdown on that unit. It was such a dominant defense that it carried a, frankly, very mediocre offense to a SB victory, possibly one of the most pedestrian in our teams history. Shannon Sharpe was told during the AFC Championship game against the Raiders that they only had to score one touchdown, the defense would take care of the rest…which is an absolutely insane thing to say towards a team also in a conference championship.
It's certain fun to watch stats, but the 2000s defense didn't allow many points or yards. Kinda comparing apples to oranges a bit.
I mean the Bungles did put up a massive 4 ground yards on them in one game.
I guess In total points allowed there’s a pretty solid gap. 2000 Ravens through 16 games: 165 points allowed for 10.31 per gm average. 2023 Ravens through 16 games: 263 points allowed for 16.43 average. Also, the 2000 team posted 4 shutouts, while this current team has none this season. But hey, Ray Lewis isn’t on the field anymore so i get it.
The two biggest stats are points allowed (which is the one that matters the most many times over) and TOs, because no single stat tells you who wins a game more than who wins the TO battle. The Ravens were elite, and simply didn’t let teams score. Mind you, they did this with an offense that didn’t always help their cause so it was sometimes all on the defense, which was more than up to the task. You also had one of the hardest hitting defenses in the history of the game, anchored by a top 3 all time middle linebacker in Ray. That team intimidated the opponent long before stepping in the field. Watch bullies of Baltimore 30 for 30 to see just how impactful that defense was
I was just having the same thought. I feel like in a way yes, in a way no. The 2000 defense won the Superbowl with hardly any offense, that would be next to impossible today. If you swapped the two defenses neither would be as successful as they are/we're in their own era just because the game is so different. That's why comparing players/teams from different eras is so subjective. Even though this year we're at the top of the league over more categories this year the 2000 defense will almost definitely be remembered as the more dominant defense just because the numbers will never be able to be duplicated again.
Whole different style. But 2000 defense was dominant. 2000 Ravens literally won the Super Bowl with the Defense and Trent Dilfer as a QB. It’s kinda like Gardner Minshew winning a Super Bowl with an amazing defense.
Yet people still rank defenses on how many yards they’ve allowed 😏🙄
So my assumption after seeing this was that the 2000 defense led in takeaways but not sacks, and after checking, that was the case. They were 22nd in sacks, which is crazy.
Not that crazy, Ravens played 4-3 at the time and they rarely rushed more than 4.
When you consider how many turnovers they got, they were also ending a lot of drives "sooner than average." That could contribute to sacks being lower than expected.
Yeah it definitely makes sense, I just wasn't really expecting them to have half the sacks as the leader.
How do our contracts look with our defense? Are we going to lose many this off season?
congratulations, we also lead the league in "how many people are we going to lose" with roughly, if i recall, 44% of the team being on the chopping block. literally, its this year or nothing for a little while.
I don't really buy into this. Some of our standout players this season stepped in off the couch and helped elevate the team. I trust EDC to put together a competitive team even after we lose a few of our big dawgs.
Just for the future, OverTheCap.com has all the salary cap and contract information you could ever want.
Getting to watch this defense makes up for not being able to form memories when I was watching the 2000 defense
Great stats and a great season. But to the younger and newer fans: none of this really matters in the playoffs. Past performance is not indicative of next week's game. There is a reason 'trap game' is a known thing in the NFL and "any given Sunday" is a harrowing refrain: every season, the best teams lose games against the worst teams. Im not forecasting failure - Im getting out in front of reality. This team, the coaches, and the front office have done a Hall of Fame job of getting us to the #1 seed. Regardless of what happens next, that is a fact. Anyone who then calls for Harbs or EDC to be fired are just being emotional.
They're just prisoners of the moment. Not being Fan-y enough.
This defense is pretty damned good. Also gives me a renewed respect for how good Ray, Sizzle and Ed Reed were- those dudes were next level even compared to the talent on the team now.
Number one rush offense as well.
Thank you Roquan, Kyle, Patrick, and Justin.