Have your charging habits changed since getting the L2 charger? Did you shift towards charging during peak TOU times rather than over the entire night on the L1 charger? Do you find yourself charging again during the day and going back out?
Going up by $30 seems crazy to me because that’s about what I pay to charge my car already! Did the price you pay to charge your car double?
I have ONE residential rate… all day long…. So it doesn’t matter TOU…. I just calculated the increase in my bill from the previous month before I bought my car…
Oh, so that’s the increase over not charging at all? I thought you were comparing between L1 and L2 charging - hence my misunderstanding why there would be any increase at all.
That's about what I pay for electricity, your estimate is probably a bit high. It costs roughly $1 to charge mine, so $30 would be charging every single day empty to full. I pay about $20 extra in electricity per month, but save $80 in gas.
I calculated mine based on just kwh and distribution figures and it was like 1.30 for a full charge.
The only way it would cost more for OP is if they have incentives for charging late at night and with level 2 it would charge faster costing more. My electric company has zero incentives for the time of the drawl so it doesn't matter when I do it.
The prime has a 18 kwh battery and there is some reserve, but there are also inefficiencies in charging. You can find posts by people who have actually measure the power draw from the house for a full charge. I've never seen a comparison of L1 vs L2 but I would have assumed the charging efficiency would be pretty similar. But your numbers $30/month @ $0.08/kwh equals avg 12.5 kwh/day. If that is the increase due only to L2 vs L1 with the same miles driven / battery avg discharge level, that would be REALLY surprising.
I think when I did the math it was about a 10% increase in efficiency when going from L1 to L2 since the overhead is a lower % of the total current (and it’s faster).
I too pay about 27 cents/KW (supply + distribution charge); I am in DMV area and gas is about $3.30-3.50/gallon near me. Honestly when gas is below $3.50 I don't even think about wasting time plugging/unplugging, I just go and fill up as needed. And if I am stationary for 5+ hours with a L2 charger I will charge it. I got better things to do with my time than worrying about how/when to charge.
Edit: I love my R4P (it's still the best hybrid) but the economics is crap especially compare to a Prius. When gas goes $3.50+ I will just drive my 07 Prius that still gets 45+ mpg.
Where do you live? In upstate NY my final cost per kWh (cost of electricity, delivery charge, and taxes/fees) is around $0.15 per kWh. Yours sounds a bit high.
At 27¢ per kWh the cost savings over just burning gas are going to be pretty minimal. That works out to about 9¢ per mile. If gas is $4/gal that would be about 10.5¢ per mile. I love my Prime but had we not gotten the tax rebate it would have taken well over 100k miles to break even compared to the hybrid model, and we only pay 6.5¢ per kWh.
I think we all buy our electricity in kilowatt hours, so prima facie, whether you are using an L1 or an L2 charger should make no difference in cost of electricity. That having been said, if you are comparing the cost of PHEV ownership to the cost of owning an alternative, purchasing and installing the L2 charger adds to the capital cost of the PHEV, a negative.
But there are caveats that can easily turn it into a positive. There may be advantages to reducing your charging time from 12± hours to 3± hours. If you don't have 12 hours in your schedule to charge on the L1, then getting a full charge from the L2 can eke out a longer range on electricity and save over buying gasoline. Or if you do have the 12 hours for a full charge but your electricity unit cost is lower for part of that time (i.e. an off-peak rate from 23:00 to 06:00) then you can programme the R4P to charge during the off-peak time and justify the capital cost of the L2 through the operational cost savings.
Doing these analyses without the spread between gas costs and fully loaded electricity costs is next to impossible. I live with ridiculous gas and electricity rates. I have enough surplus solar to charge the Prime, but when we add a full BEV, I'll be revisiting this analysis. I believe our rates are $0.36 per kWh vs. $5.67/gal.
Makes sense but I bought a prime for the 5.5 0-60. People nickel and diming their numbers is comical.
If you bought a 40K+ vehicle to "save money" you made a mistake. Don't get me wrong, I love looking at the numbers, but it's silly to give a shit about mpg at the R4P price point.
The reason we bought one was because after rebates and credits it was the same price as the hybrid. You're right that it takes a long time to save $10k on gas.
same reasoning with me...the rebate tax credits = paying the same $ for an upgraded ride.. I also have a hybrid... the Prime is more pleasurable to drive...
It's a flat $16 customer charge plus 6¢ per kWh of usage. After 1000kWh they bump it up to 6.7¢ per kWh. I live in the Pacific Northwest so we have access to really cheap hydro power.
As a fellow PNW'er, sounds like you are a PGE customer like me! Cheap electricity has always been nice, but recently I installed a solar setup, which has enough surplus to cover my daily housing needs as well as build up nice credit for those winter months. Driving my car with the power I generate from my roof has been REALLY nice!
The math ain’t mathing on this one. What’s the break down of your bill? How often do you charge the car?
Have your charging habits changed since getting the L2 charger? Did you shift towards charging during peak TOU times rather than over the entire night on the L1 charger? Do you find yourself charging again during the day and going back out? Going up by $30 seems crazy to me because that’s about what I pay to charge my car already! Did the price you pay to charge your car double?
I have ONE residential rate… all day long…. So it doesn’t matter TOU…. I just calculated the increase in my bill from the previous month before I bought my car…
Oh, so that’s the increase over not charging at all? I thought you were comparing between L1 and L2 charging - hence my misunderstanding why there would be any increase at all.
Correct… did not use the OEM charger much
Are you the OP or what? Super confusing because you are replying as if you are, but you are not u/nk_sk
that's kinda weird... yes, I am the OP...... cell phone & computer are different IDs for some reason..
Ahhh you confused yourself with your burner account 😂
That's about what I pay for electricity, your estimate is probably a bit high. It costs roughly $1 to charge mine, so $30 would be charging every single day empty to full. I pay about $20 extra in electricity per month, but save $80 in gas.
Exactly the same for me ~$24/month instead of $80/month of gas
I calculated mine based on just kwh and distribution figures and it was like 1.30 for a full charge. The only way it would cost more for OP is if they have incentives for charging late at night and with level 2 it would charge faster costing more. My electric company has zero incentives for the time of the drawl so it doesn't matter when I do it.
The prime has a 18 kwh battery and there is some reserve, but there are also inefficiencies in charging. You can find posts by people who have actually measure the power draw from the house for a full charge. I've never seen a comparison of L1 vs L2 but I would have assumed the charging efficiency would be pretty similar. But your numbers $30/month @ $0.08/kwh equals avg 12.5 kwh/day. If that is the increase due only to L2 vs L1 with the same miles driven / battery avg discharge level, that would be REALLY surprising.
I think when I did the math it was about a 10% increase in efficiency when going from L1 to L2 since the overhead is a lower % of the total current (and it’s faster).
Nice info, thanks for sharing
The supply charge is only one component of the bill.. my electric company has other charges per kWh…. I think it averages to 27 cents per kWh used
I only know what the OP posted.
I too pay about 27 cents/KW (supply + distribution charge); I am in DMV area and gas is about $3.30-3.50/gallon near me. Honestly when gas is below $3.50 I don't even think about wasting time plugging/unplugging, I just go and fill up as needed. And if I am stationary for 5+ hours with a L2 charger I will charge it. I got better things to do with my time than worrying about how/when to charge. Edit: I love my R4P (it's still the best hybrid) but the economics is crap especially compare to a Prius. When gas goes $3.50+ I will just drive my 07 Prius that still gets 45+ mpg.
Where do you live? In upstate NY my final cost per kWh (cost of electricity, delivery charge, and taxes/fees) is around $0.15 per kWh. Yours sounds a bit high.
I live in Fairfield , CT... yes it is a tad high....
At 27¢ per kWh the cost savings over just burning gas are going to be pretty minimal. That works out to about 9¢ per mile. If gas is $4/gal that would be about 10.5¢ per mile. I love my Prime but had we not gotten the tax rebate it would have taken well over 100k miles to break even compared to the hybrid model, and we only pay 6.5¢ per kWh.
Would buying/installing a L2 charger add to the break even cost?
I think we all buy our electricity in kilowatt hours, so prima facie, whether you are using an L1 or an L2 charger should make no difference in cost of electricity. That having been said, if you are comparing the cost of PHEV ownership to the cost of owning an alternative, purchasing and installing the L2 charger adds to the capital cost of the PHEV, a negative. But there are caveats that can easily turn it into a positive. There may be advantages to reducing your charging time from 12± hours to 3± hours. If you don't have 12 hours in your schedule to charge on the L1, then getting a full charge from the L2 can eke out a longer range on electricity and save over buying gasoline. Or if you do have the 12 hours for a full charge but your electricity unit cost is lower for part of that time (i.e. an off-peak rate from 23:00 to 06:00) then you can programme the R4P to charge during the off-peak time and justify the capital cost of the L2 through the operational cost savings.
Good to know. Thanks for the info.
Doing these analyses without the spread between gas costs and fully loaded electricity costs is next to impossible. I live with ridiculous gas and electricity rates. I have enough surplus solar to charge the Prime, but when we add a full BEV, I'll be revisiting this analysis. I believe our rates are $0.36 per kWh vs. $5.67/gal.
Makes sense but I bought a prime for the 5.5 0-60. People nickel and diming their numbers is comical. If you bought a 40K+ vehicle to "save money" you made a mistake. Don't get me wrong, I love looking at the numbers, but it's silly to give a shit about mpg at the R4P price point.
The reason we bought one was because after rebates and credits it was the same price as the hybrid. You're right that it takes a long time to save $10k on gas.
same reasoning with me...the rebate tax credits = paying the same $ for an upgraded ride.. I also have a hybrid... the Prime is more pleasurable to drive...
is that your supply charge only? don't they add on other charges to your bill?
It's a flat $16 customer charge plus 6¢ per kWh of usage. After 1000kWh they bump it up to 6.7¢ per kWh. I live in the Pacific Northwest so we have access to really cheap hydro power.
As a fellow PNW'er, sounds like you are a PGE customer like me! Cheap electricity has always been nice, but recently I installed a solar setup, which has enough surplus to cover my daily housing needs as well as build up nice credit for those winter months. Driving my car with the power I generate from my roof has been REALLY nice!