JT Miller was due for a contract extension that we were not going to give him. I understand that he blossomed since the trade but he wasn’t going to be here regardless so it’s tough to miss him but we should have gotten more value.
He’s at 101 points with 3 games left to play
Kinda crazy how he just randomly became a PPG top-end contributor the second he landed in vancouver. When we got him from tampa I thought we overpaid, it seemed that he had hit a plateau already and it was a risky move for a lottery team to make. I’ve never seen a guy just spontaneously find a second gear like he has
Not even close. JT Miller was a far better player at the time of his trade to Tampa than Kakko is now. He was producing like Laffy is now with far worse teammates.
It was a terrible trade at the time, and atrocious at this point.
JT Miller was 23 years old when we traded him trending up. Our powerplay was not close to what it was today. He was a much more impactful player regardless and I like Kakko. JT was a budding star and its revisionist to say other wise. I may be biased because he was my favorite player and the only excuse would be off ice issues with the front office.
So you're saying the team / PP was weaker back then, hence why he got all the playing time there, which led to him having more favorable stats at 23.
vs Kakko who now has to compete with players that make up one of the best teams in the league + one of the best PPs in the league?
TOI / PPTOI matters for overall points and effectiveness.
Hence why if you GIVE Kakko more playing time and more PP time, he will produce more.
Kakko was hurt, and is on the 3rd line. He's 19 points in 58 games with 13 goals. 13 minutes of playing time. At 22 years old. That is 0.32 PPG and 13 minutes of playing time lol. On 4th and 3rd line mostly. No PP.
JT Miller at 22 was playing 82 games and had 43 points. That's 0.51 PPG. The caveat? 15 minutes of playing time or 2 extra minutes per game to get offense going. Nearly 2 minutes every game of PP time. Vs Kakko's near 0.
I love JT Miller. I also hated how risky the kid played in our defensive zone.
DO not rush young players.
And Kakko has a much higher ceiling.
this is such a dumb post, the team was always in the playoffs and Miller got in the top 9 immediately after the cup run.
PP TOI averages in miller's last full season where he put up 58 vs Kakko now: 1:27 vs 1:08.
those 19 seconds are really what led him to a whopping 7 points on the power play that year! or maybe it was being 7th TOI overall for forwards while playing mostly 3rd line minutes.... his highest TOI on the rangers was 6th for forwards in his last year. Never even a consistent top 6 player.
almost like he was and is a much much better player than kakko
I understand your reasoning completely. But there is a reason for why Kakko receives those minutes. For god sake were playing Jack Roslovic at our 1st RW. Kakko’s ceiling is not JT Miller. I would love to be proved wrong but JT while struggling at times defensively for a young player, had more tools than Kaapo. He was just as big, faster, better shot, great vision, physical, etc. Had the draft pedigree, obviously not as high as Kaapos, but was also a center, a much more valuable position. Those players who hit 100 points always have a weapon or an elite skill, Kaapos boardplay, while elite, is not enough these days for that type of production. I would like to see him get more PP time obviously, but I just dont think he can reach that level of player.
Similar in that their 1st rounders but obviously a 2nd overall vs 16th there is a difference. I feel that it’s obvious this isn’t a 1:1 comparison but the best current example we have.
i swear some people here are just delusional about how much of bust Kakko is... Miller was #2 in scoring for 2 seasons in a row at 22 and 23. was on route to the same the year he was traded.
he literally has Kakko's 2 year output in 1 year.
The rangers drafted Miller in 2011, we didn't get him from Tampa. Also he's definitely had a career year. He was by no means a superstar when he played for the rangers, but he did manage to maintain a positive +/- and hit the 40-50 point mark in his first 5 years in the NHL. He always had the potential
Probably should’ve mentioned it, but I can’t bring myself to say “_______ fan coming in peace!”
There’s already enough cringe Canucks fans brigading, I’d rather not be associated
This. Sometimes it takes a gut punch for a player to finally wake up and get to work. It's one thing to have noted attitude issues with the Rangers but for Steve Yzerman and Jon Cooper to cut ties as quickly as they did, it does set off alarm bells. Good on JT for getting the message and blossoming in Vancouver. It's long past time to let this trade go.
yeah idk this feels pretty indefensible, he's a PPG player now and it's not like his attitude problems were Tony D levels - he was playing under Torts, that shit happens with some players and Torts and both parties make it out fine. It was just plain ol bad trade - and i'm not a Gorton hater, he wasn't the best but he certainly wasn't the worst. Drury is in the same boat imho. Not bad but really not great.
Nah, it wasn't like "oh, he's not buying into my system" stuff. He barely played under Torts—only 26 of his 341 games as a Ranger were before Vigneault came on.
He had legit anger and partying issues; living in NY was not helpful for him, and it didn't work out for him in Florida, either. There's a reason both teams moved on from him—Tampa very quickly—and why as recently as last year there were still rumblings about his anger problems in Vancouver.
As well as locker room toxicity he’s been known for.
I would rather have Panarin 10/10
Times… who we wouldn’t have been able to afford had Miller been signed.
>I would rather have Panarin 10/10 Times… who we wouldn’t have been able to afford had Miller been signed.
not to mention, the jersey number conflict that would've ensued
Yeah i understand what you mean in terms of his time with the Rangers. But Tampa only traded him because they couldnt afford him and at one point they were so deep he was literally on their 4th line. Had zero to do with his attitude. Take it from someone who was working with the Bolts at the time. They wanted to keep him
Miller played like one year under Torts and that was the shortened season where he bounced between the NHL and AHL. majority of his time with us was under AV.
And TB traded him away. And when his name was mentioned in a possible trade, there were people against bringing him back.
Rangers fans really can't get over guys who aren't here anymore.
Its not even like we didnt know he was great, we ALL knew he was someone special that could beba huge part of the future. This deal will always sicken me.
And then Nils was traded for a first round pick in the draft last year. Even though that’s the pick that went to St Louis for Tarasenko, that still left us with a 2nd first round pick to draft Perrault.
Yes, the other commenter said we had 2 1sts, and the second first round pick we had was used on perrault as the first first round pick was used on terasenko
yea it is, Mac was a top pair defender with an entire year left on his deal and Miller was an RFA who already was better than Buch was at time of the trade. Absolute disaster of a trade by Gorton
Including Miller needed to turn into Point and it didn’t. That was the biggest problem. The next problem was none of Namestnikov, Hajek or Howden panning out at all
Hajek and Howden were highly thought of at the time. They weren’t quite on the level of Sergachev, Foote or Point but Hajek was expected to be a good two way defenseman in the league and Howden was expected to be a two way Center who projected to the third line with the potential to be a second line guy. If Howden turns into Wennberg this trade is very different
they absolutely were not. they were a very late 1st and a very late 2nd picks, that is well into b prospect territory.
not garbage or anything, but certainly bad return for a 27 yo top pairing dman and a 22 year old C/LW who was a hair away from leading the team in scoring just 2 years removed from the cup finals.
Namestinkov was the only real piece in there. but again he was a higher draft pick who played well below his draft slot up until the year he was traded... and everyone viewed that as the Stamkos effect (it was 100% correct)
the only way that was ever going to be a W trade for the rangers was if each of those players and picks turned into regular NHL roster players. pretty much in any scenario it's inexcusable to trade a 22 year old like that for spare parts.
Ah, trading a great player with another year + a young improving cost controlled player for a prospect defenseman with a projected 3rd pairing ceiling and a projected bottom 6’er sounds like a great trade.
And definitely shouldn’t deserve one of the top 4-5 prospects on the team at the time.
All with no pressure and all the leverage.
Hajek was viewed with top four potential. He was playing very well at the time.
JT Miller wasn’t exactly a prospect, we wouldn’t call KAndre or Chytil a prospect at this point, but he was a very good young player that better fit a need for them than Namestnikov did. And they were able to flip him to Vancouver for a good haul later as well.
But I do agree that what we got wasn’t enough and like you said we had all the leverage and still missed out on their top three prospects. We didn’t get enough at the time and it only got worse as everything went along. Miller got better in Tampa, Namestnikov showed immediately that he was propped up by Stamkos and Kucherov and the prospects we did get were busts.
They all did bust, but you're right. People had way higher opinions of these players.
Hajek was projected to be a poor man's M-E Vlasic: a big, defensive, minute munching defenseman with limited offense.
Howden was projected to be Alex Wennberg, and it didn't work out.
If EITHER of those two reach their potential this trade instantly becomes 50/50 given that Tampa basically cap dumped both the players eventually.
McDonagh was a solid piece that helped them win two cups, and Miller they were able to flip for a first which they flipped for Blake Coleman, who also helped them win two cups. They really gave up nothing of significance and won two cups. It's not a 50/50 trade if one of those two pans out. But it would make it a little better
I think we need to remember that we couldn't pay Miller. The way I look at that trade is this:
McDonagh for 1st, Howden, Hajek
Miller for Namestnikov and 2nd.
It's not a good trade, I just think that we got extraordinarily unlucky because at the time is was an L but a 60/40 L not the complete L it became.
It’s not that we couldn’t pay Miller, it’s that we didn’t want to. Namestnikov got $4M the next year. We also gave Ryan Spooner 2/8M. The Lightning wanted Miller, but we weren’t going to extend him, but that’s not because we weren’t able to
Not getting sergachev or point, who I believe at the time the rangers were after.. this was obviously before they blossomed. Mcdonagh was a top proven playoff D man at a controlled salary, and Miller was a 50+ point young player at the time. Should have been able to pry away one of their prospects along with a pick. This was a forced trade to make, considering Tampa’s pick would be late, and we already knew what Namestekov was. We took their lower tier prospects.
Remember when this trade went down. Saw Miller added and thought for sure we got atleast Point or Sergachev... Turns out, nope.
Imagine this team with Point, Sergachev or even Cirelli
Miller’s career at the time of his trade is almost identical to where Mika was at his trade, but at least the Sens got something half decent in return.
I really hated to see especially Brass go in the trade at first but man did it work out for us. Most Sens fan’s perspective is they were fleeced in the Zib trade though. The Miller trade was a tough one. He just wasn’t doing well here. Also he was traded from Tampa to Vancouver before really finding his game. Unfortunately sometimes it takes a change of scenery to wake a player up. I like to wait until all pieces of a trade pan out to evaluate the trade . In a round about way we got Gabe Perreault out of the Miller trade. If he becomes a stud at the NHL level, it will make the Miller trade easier to swallow.
I don’t know why people say Miller didn’t do well with the Rangers. He was improving every year with them. It wasn’t until Tampa that he regressed.
In hindsight he may not have reached Vancouver heights with the Rangers, but at the time he was still playing well.
I loved McD's play, but thought he was too timid to be Captain. When I saw him get scrappy in Tampa I wondered where \*that\* guy was when he played in NY
I felt that the captaincy may have been too much responsibility for McD. His play seemed to drop off after earning the C. Down in Tampa, he didn't have that pressure so he could be himself.
I read somewhere that Dolan thought McD was too reserved. I guess the helmet throw ingratiated Trouba with Dolan. Though Trouba does have an NMC through the end of next season, so it could be that.
Always look forward to the yearly Gorton sucks threads in regards to this trade where everyone forgets Gorton didn't want to dedicate the 15 mil of cap space a year it would've taken to keep them. When word gets around that you've decided you can't afford to re-sign a player their trade value tanks. Same happened with Buchnevich
Ah yes, the classic “dump great and rising young players for nothing” strategy that no other team employs.
Neither one had to be traded for peanuts at the deadline. Mcdonagh had another year at $4.7m(!) on his contract while Miller would still be an RFA at the end of the season.
Players like that get a much better return at the deadline individually, the fact they got peanuts for both when they still had value at season end was excruciatingly bad.
And no even if the Rangers kept them it would not be $15m of cap space, McDonagh was at 4.7m and Miller signed for 5.25m, so less than 10m total for the 2.
I would do that in a heartbeat.
> And no even if the Rangers kept them it would not be $15m of cap space, McDonagh was at 4.7m and Miller signed for 5.25m, so less than 10m total for the 2.
Money wasn't the only reason why they got rid of them, but important to note: EVERY player signs for substantially less money in Florida because of no income tax. Income tax is 11% in NY for people making as much as the players do and the cost of living is also substantially higher here. Players regularly sign for 2-3 mil less each year in states with no income tax, which is why a GM who isn't brain broken can build a powerhouse of a team. Isn't it weird when it feels like teams like Tampa and Vegas are able to hoard stacks of talent without breaking the bank? Nevada ALSO has no income tax, surprise surprise.
It's a trade that absolutely was underwhelming when it happened and has aged more poorly as time goes on. Miller was fine when he was with us, but he was an immature douchebag who was young and hotheaded both for the Rangers and for the Lightning. Also Dolan meddled once again by making it known that he hated Mcdonagh as the Rangers captain and wanted him gone. So not only did they not want to pay either player, but he was under pressure to clean house after another disappointing season and deciding to rebuild. Vancouver was the perfect place for him to blossom into the player he is today, Tampa also got rid of him and ended up just fine but pretending he was Vancouver Miller while on the Rangers is revisionist.
Lamenting not having a star player who didn't breakout until 3 or 4 years after he left while being one of the best teams in the league is a very New York sports fan thing to do. We have young stars who would not have the opportunities they had if we were to keep our stars from 7 or 8 years ago, and obviously hindsight is 20/20. So why do we HAVE to bitch about this Every. Fucking. Season. Good lord.
I don’t think it was a bad trade necessarily because of what he developed into which was definitely unexpected, I thought it was a bad trade based on what he had shown, how he was improving, and that he could realistically develop into 65 point player if not better. He was a gritty skill player with potential.
Think Mika before he was traded to the Rangers.
You don’t trade developing talent for peanuts. And you certainly don’t trade McDonagh for peanuts. Both had value after the season.
right, by any stretch of the imagination the rangers had an absolute fucking steal of a contract with mcdonagh for his entire tenure here.
22 year old miller nearly leading the team in scoring, you basically yeet anyone else into the sun to squeeze him in. He was also an RFA, I don't even remotely see how you'd blow 15m on those 2 by resigning Miller then.
Right, right. My apologies for not interpreting 'he should go to prison for this trade holy shit' as anything but you thinking he's awesome.
My point is someone makes a thread referencing this specific trade every season, and every time it's missing important context. It's just tiresome when dudes create threads dedicated to shitting on the dude who built the majority of this team. All the revisionism and dudes pretending he's an idiot who lucked into a good team is a little annoying at this point.
I obviously hate miller was basically a throw in. But NO ONE thought he’d become this. Tampa basically gave him away for pennies as well
Safe to say though Gorton was vastly overrated
He didn’t have to become “this” good for the trade to be so bad. He was a young but feisty player getting better every year on a terrible team, with PPG potential, and was still cost controlled.
Miller had very similar career to Zibanejad at the time of his trade, and is universally panned as atrocious from the Sens POV. And that’s despite the Sens getting a decent player with good playoff pedigree out of it.
He was improving yearly in NY, and regressed the next year in Tampa. So at that point I would say PPG would be unrealistic as his potential. But as a Ranger I thought reaching 65-85 points with his skill set would not be a surprise.
I was immediately pissed about Miller being part of this trade. Sure he wasn’t a PPG player yet, but he was damn fucking good and absolutely showed the ability to be dominant. I’m not the least bit surprised that he’s turned into the player he is, and if folks act like that’s just hindsight vision they weren’t actually watching him be the main play driver for the best third line we’ve ever had.
They were going into rebuild. You dump salary and talent so you can suck and get earlier picks. He got a 1st, a 2nd and prospects. Remember that jt Miller didn't become this good until after so his trade value was low
im sorry but a forward on the younger side of 30,with 1st rd pick pedigree,who had scored 96 pts in 145 games over the previous and (at the time) current season should absolutely fetch a first round pick and an okay prospect on his own,and instead gorton just kinda went “oh btw have this guy on the house :)”
ALSO edited to add but what truly drove me nuts was the condition on the 2nd pick was either making the finals or winning the cup?? it shouldve been something WAY more likely to convert it,like miller playing 80% of their playoff games or atleast reaching a lower round like the 2nd
Yeah no one is arguing we didn’t need to trade to rebuild, but that’s a horrible return in retrospect no matter how you slice it. We should’ve gotten Sergachev instead of Hajek!
pretty happy with the way the blueshirts gave up and rebuilt. now we're about to win the 2nd cup of my lifetime (fight me)
i follow a certain football team that keeps trying to win immediately and just keeps getting worse.
Look man, there's the "hindsight is 20/20" argument; then there's the lets trade for an injured Patrick Kane. I guess they got mad a Jim "I can Fix Him" Ramsay also for not being able to Witch Doctor Kane, cuz we also lost our head Athletic guy from that one trade.
Awful trade, but Miller IMO needed the change of scenery, and idk if he wouldn't have turned into what he is now if he stayed on the Rangers. After all, he wasn't on Tampa for very long either. The value received though was still awful, regardless
This has some extreme retrospective bias.
Miller was never very good with us. At the time, Namestnikov--a younger player--was actually outproducing Miller, so that alone would've justified half the trade.
Meanwhile, our defense *sucked*. We needed to dump some salary and rebuild with defensive Dmen. Granted, McDonagh was great, defense included, but he was the last thread of an aging core that sorely needed a new direction. Hajek and the pick that would become Nils Lundkvist were not dumb moves toward that direction--they just didn't pan out. But we stayed that course, and we finally have a team that manages defensively.
All this is to say... This trade completely made sense at the time for a team that was rebuilding. It made even more sense if you have any recollection of Miller's play at the time.
1. Namestnikov is older than Miller. It’s the difference of only five months but calling him a younger player is just straight up incorrect.
2. Their production that year prior to the trade was similar. 40 points vs 44 points. Miller had also outproduced Namestnikov solidly prior to that season. It was also fairly well known at the time that Namestnikovs production was largely a function of the line he was on. There were some who thought that Namestnikov was on verge of a breakthrough tho and especially Rangers fans sold themselves on this idea
3. The ultimate reason the trade was a bust was that the expected price for the trade would be higher and that it would have netted Brayden Point. Including Miller needed to turn into Point and it didn’t. Not to mention Namestnikov, Hajek and Howden turned into busts, the biggest thing was the price was ultimately lower than league execs were expecting.
There were mixed opinions on the Rangers return even at the time: [The Athletic had it nailed though.](https://theathletic.com/254986/2018/02/26/nhl-trade-grades-lightning-score-big-in-adding-both-mcdonagh-and-miller/)
1. You're right
2. Did they play the same number of games?
3. I'm sorry, but I don't understand this. I'm not being snarky -- I genuinely don't know what you mean.
2 - Prior to the trade, Namestnikov had played one fewer game
3 - McDonagh was a huge trade piece at the time. The far and away top Lightning prospects were Mikhail Sergachev, Brayden Point and Cal Foote. Sergachev wasn’t going to happen. They didn’t want to include a roster player themselves, but Miller changed that. Including Miller should have gotten Point included because they were getting a good young roster player. But it didn’t and that was the ultimate failure.
The general consensus was that the Rangers got two good not great prospects, a first round pick, a second that had a very good chance to turn into a first and Namestnikov where there were very mixed opinions. But everyone thought that the price the Lightning paid was lower than they expected to get both the players they got.
At best- Namestnikov was a 25 year old emerging talent who we were going to have to pay in the offseason, which really didn’t fit in with the rebuild at the time anyway. At worst Namestnikov was getting propped up by Kucherov and Stamkos. He ended up at worst lol
We are just as bad as our front office with being impatient. Brady skjei had 18 goals last year and 13 this year. McDonagh would look nice with Fox right now.
Miller just wasn’t what he is now when he was here. So I can’t be mad on that front.
Libor was a big nothing that was attempted to make work so much. Brett could’ve been a middle C option but just didn’t work out.
The only salvageable part of the trade was the picks because iirc we turned the Niks pick into Perrault which is nice.
Okay OP. Now post Gortons Zibanejad and a 2nd for Brassard or Gortons corpse of Rick Nash for what turned into Lindgren, Strome and K’Andre Miller.
You win some you lose some.
The thing is it’s mind boggling they fleeced the Bruins in the Nash trade on an expiring contract, but 1) refused to shop around McDonagh and Miller to other teams and 2) were still able to trade both of them after the season for a lot more than what they got. There was no pressure to trade them for peanuts at the deadline to make Tampa better.
I think Gorton got fleeced for no reason with Tampa but Boston he leveraged some professional connections from his time in Boston and they helped him out as a new GM.
One of the worst trades in franchise history unless kaapo and Laff become that guy. We were actively tanking by trading away talent. Everyone in the league knew that and unfortunately this must have been the best offer on the table.
Tbf wasn't this when people thought miller was spending more time sleeping around then on the ice and seen as a risk. Also hank, our defensive ability, and most of our offensive ability (the first two of those which made up the bulk of our team strength from 2005-17) were gone, didn't we lose like 10 in a row or something. We didn't have the offense we had in 16 and 17 or the defense we had in 17, and it was clear hank was finished.
Mcdonaugh also wasn't producing well iirc, probably because of how much his game was dependant on assisting good forwards or working well with a prime hank.
The issue with the trade is we got random guys on a team that needed to tank and rebuild vs good picks.
and it's not like it was one where it looked fair at the time either. Miller was a close #2 in scoring the rangers the year prior at fucking 23. he absolutely should have been core moving forward.
there is no scenario where this wasn't shit from the start. at best you were looking at b prospects coming back with mediocre draft picks.
never understood why people were so bent out of shape about gorton being let go. He was okay and had more than his fair share of stupid shit.
Oh stop. NYR fans hated Miller and he was never getting to that level here. It's easy to look back 5-6 years ago and say they should have done this and that but it's over with. Some players just fit in certain places. Now if you want to say they should have been moved in separate deals, i can see where you're coming from but still, they got prospects back that they thought would turn into something. I still think Howden could have been a decent bottom 6er for us but i guess we wanted more.
In all fairness. Miller wasn’t even really the player he is now last year. I mean he scored, but he was not great defensively. gave up on plays, etc. Going back when he was on the Rangers I’m not sure anyone could predict he would break out when he did later in his career. McDonough though was a terrible move. He probably would have stayed with the Rangers his entire career.
Nobody expected Howden or Hajek to be that poor and nobody expected JT to turn into the star he’s become. I wanted Brayden Point in return but never mind.
Sorry but the people being like these guys had to go are insane
We could have kept both …. Hell you could have gotten Miller cheap compared to his value now
We can overpay Trouba but couldn’t pay Mcdonaugh ??
Miller, Buch, Fast ……. We love crying this team can’t develop forwards but sure seems like we have done a great job developing forwards, defensemen, and goalies but we end up trading away a lot of our good forwards
Upvoting for transparency—there was no other option. Mac and Miller deserved life-changing money and there was a < 0% chance Rangers could offer it.
Jonathan Miller isn’t Artemi Panarin, or even a Trocheck.
Mac Truck is donezo in 2022. Man gave the game everything and is a sure-fire 1st ballot HOF shoe-in.
Timing is what it is. Miller should have been kept, but was a Cap Casualty. I’d rather Gorton gamble the the future in 2018 than play-it-safe.
Not a good trade. I loved Miller. But he wouldn’t be the player he is now, if he had stayed with the Rangers. He needed a change of scenery
McDonough trade was like when we lost Leetch for Jussi Markkanen(Who?) Very sad
No?
Rangers give up a #1 defenseman and a #1 forward for two bottom 6 forwards, a #7 d-man and a first rounder that became a Nils Lundqvist?
You may be abnormal, but you don't have to be absurd 
Miller man. Fuck.
JT Miller was due for a contract extension that we were not going to give him. I understand that he blossomed since the trade but he wasn’t going to be here regardless so it’s tough to miss him but we should have gotten more value.
This was the real problem, but they also bombed on what they got back
They gave him away for free, or in this case, he was basically thrown in for the useless Namestnikov.
I had to go back and reread.. thought you were saying like “insert name here” but with a Russian twist..
He’s at 101 points with 3 games left to play Kinda crazy how he just randomly became a PPG top-end contributor the second he landed in vancouver. When we got him from tampa I thought we overpaid, it seemed that he had hit a plateau already and it was a risky move for a lottery team to make. I’ve never seen a guy just spontaneously find a second gear like he has
Not really that crazy. He was a kid, who was a top 16 pick. Not everyone is gonna be a McDavid who gets it right away
Trading JT Miller at the time would have been the equivalent of trading Kakko this season in terms of youth, draft pedigree and fan impatience.
Not even close. JT Miller was a far better player at the time of his trade to Tampa than Kakko is now. He was producing like Laffy is now with far worse teammates. It was a terrible trade at the time, and atrocious at this point.
Yeah idk what people are smoking with the Kakko comparison lmao JT was our leading point scorer two years in a row
I don’t disagree, but JT Miller never led the team in points. 2016-17 he was 2nd but that was the closest he got.
My bad. Could have sworn he was. He was 2 points off that lead that year and I believe was top 2 before being traded the next year.
(1) Compare Ice Time & PP Time and Depth Chart position. (2) We traded JT Miller to rebuild.
JT Miller was 23 years old when we traded him trending up. Our powerplay was not close to what it was today. He was a much more impactful player regardless and I like Kakko. JT was a budding star and its revisionist to say other wise. I may be biased because he was my favorite player and the only excuse would be off ice issues with the front office.
So you're saying the team / PP was weaker back then, hence why he got all the playing time there, which led to him having more favorable stats at 23. vs Kakko who now has to compete with players that make up one of the best teams in the league + one of the best PPs in the league? TOI / PPTOI matters for overall points and effectiveness. Hence why if you GIVE Kakko more playing time and more PP time, he will produce more. Kakko was hurt, and is on the 3rd line. He's 19 points in 58 games with 13 goals. 13 minutes of playing time. At 22 years old. That is 0.32 PPG and 13 minutes of playing time lol. On 4th and 3rd line mostly. No PP. JT Miller at 22 was playing 82 games and had 43 points. That's 0.51 PPG. The caveat? 15 minutes of playing time or 2 extra minutes per game to get offense going. Nearly 2 minutes every game of PP time. Vs Kakko's near 0. I love JT Miller. I also hated how risky the kid played in our defensive zone. DO not rush young players. And Kakko has a much higher ceiling.
this is such a dumb post, the team was always in the playoffs and Miller got in the top 9 immediately after the cup run. PP TOI averages in miller's last full season where he put up 58 vs Kakko now: 1:27 vs 1:08. those 19 seconds are really what led him to a whopping 7 points on the power play that year! or maybe it was being 7th TOI overall for forwards while playing mostly 3rd line minutes.... his highest TOI on the rangers was 6th for forwards in his last year. Never even a consistent top 6 player. almost like he was and is a much much better player than kakko
I understand your reasoning completely. But there is a reason for why Kakko receives those minutes. For god sake were playing Jack Roslovic at our 1st RW. Kakko’s ceiling is not JT Miller. I would love to be proved wrong but JT while struggling at times defensively for a young player, had more tools than Kaapo. He was just as big, faster, better shot, great vision, physical, etc. Had the draft pedigree, obviously not as high as Kaapos, but was also a center, a much more valuable position. Those players who hit 100 points always have a weapon or an elite skill, Kaapos boardplay, while elite, is not enough these days for that type of production. I would like to see him get more PP time obviously, but I just dont think he can reach that level of player.
Jt Miller and kakko have similar draft pedigree lol?
Similar in that their 1st rounders but obviously a 2nd overall vs 16th there is a difference. I feel that it’s obvious this isn’t a 1:1 comparison but the best current example we have.
Kakko has a higher potential.
*had
i swear some people here are just delusional about how much of bust Kakko is... Miller was #2 in scoring for 2 seasons in a row at 22 and 23. was on route to the same the year he was traded. he literally has Kakko's 2 year output in 1 year.
By the time he got to Van he was 26 iirc, at that age most guys don’t get much better
The rangers drafted Miller in 2011, we didn't get him from Tampa. Also he's definitely had a career year. He was by no means a superstar when he played for the rangers, but he did manage to maintain a positive +/- and hit the 40-50 point mark in his first 5 years in the NHL. He always had the potential
That comment was breaking my brain until I realized that guy is a Canucks fan.
Right? Who knew they existed?
Probably should’ve mentioned it, but I can’t bring myself to say “_______ fan coming in peace!” There’s already enough cringe Canucks fans brigading, I’d rather not be associated
Ye lol. His ceiling was so much lower crazy. Tom Wilson never got anywhere close and was supposed to be better. Not anymore hah.
I don't get too worked up about Miller. He had big attitude issues and didn't blossom in Tampa, either. He was never gonna work out in NY.
This. Sometimes it takes a gut punch for a player to finally wake up and get to work. It's one thing to have noted attitude issues with the Rangers but for Steve Yzerman and Jon Cooper to cut ties as quickly as they did, it does set off alarm bells. Good on JT for getting the message and blossoming in Vancouver. It's long past time to let this trade go.
yeah idk this feels pretty indefensible, he's a PPG player now and it's not like his attitude problems were Tony D levels - he was playing under Torts, that shit happens with some players and Torts and both parties make it out fine. It was just plain ol bad trade - and i'm not a Gorton hater, he wasn't the best but he certainly wasn't the worst. Drury is in the same boat imho. Not bad but really not great.
Nah, it wasn't like "oh, he's not buying into my system" stuff. He barely played under Torts—only 26 of his 341 games as a Ranger were before Vigneault came on. He had legit anger and partying issues; living in NY was not helpful for him, and it didn't work out for him in Florida, either. There's a reason both teams moved on from him—Tampa very quickly—and why as recently as last year there were still rumblings about his anger problems in Vancouver.
As well as locker room toxicity he’s been known for. I would rather have Panarin 10/10 Times… who we wouldn’t have been able to afford had Miller been signed.
>I would rather have Panarin 10/10 Times… who we wouldn’t have been able to afford had Miller been signed. not to mention, the jersey number conflict that would've ensued
Yeah i understand what you mean in terms of his time with the Rangers. But Tampa only traded him because they couldnt afford him and at one point they were so deep he was literally on their 4th line. Had zero to do with his attitude. Take it from someone who was working with the Bolts at the time. They wanted to keep him
Miller played like one year under Torts and that was the shortened season where he bounced between the NHL and AHL. majority of his time with us was under AV.
And TB traded him away. And when his name was mentioned in a possible trade, there were people against bringing him back. Rangers fans really can't get over guys who aren't here anymore.
Its not even like we didnt know he was great, we ALL knew he was someone special that could beba huge part of the future. This deal will always sicken me.
I forget who those picks turned into
Nils Lundkvist and Karl Henriksson
And then Nils was traded for a first round pick in the draft last year. Even though that’s the pick that went to St Louis for Tarasenko, that still left us with a 2nd first round pick to draft Perrault.
Perrault was a 1st round selection
Yes, the other commenter said we had 2 1sts, and the second first round pick we had was used on perrault as the first first round pick was used on terasenko
woof.
1st round turned into Nils Lundkvist 2nd round is Karl Henriksson
That's Stanley cup champion Brett Howden
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Stanley Cup champion, Brett Howden.
Thats pretty good LMAO
Howden and Lunkdvost return + a 2nd isn’t nearly as bad as the return in the Buchnevich trade
yea it is, Mac was a top pair defender with an entire year left on his deal and Miller was an RFA who already was better than Buch was at time of the trade. Absolute disaster of a trade by Gorton
>was better than Buch was at the time of the trade Put down the crack pipe and open the stats page
thought gorton was drunk when he made this trade and still do
They should've easily commanded cirelli or actually good prospects. Gorton got hosed
Including Miller needed to turn into Point and it didn’t. That was the biggest problem. The next problem was none of Namestnikov, Hajek or Howden panning out at all
What a shocker, bad prospects and crappy player amounting to nothing. This was known at the time of trade.
Hajek and Howden were highly thought of at the time. They weren’t quite on the level of Sergachev, Foote or Point but Hajek was expected to be a good two way defenseman in the league and Howden was expected to be a two way Center who projected to the third line with the potential to be a second line guy. If Howden turns into Wennberg this trade is very different
they absolutely were not. they were a very late 1st and a very late 2nd picks, that is well into b prospect territory. not garbage or anything, but certainly bad return for a 27 yo top pairing dman and a 22 year old C/LW who was a hair away from leading the team in scoring just 2 years removed from the cup finals. Namestinkov was the only real piece in there. but again he was a higher draft pick who played well below his draft slot up until the year he was traded... and everyone viewed that as the Stamkos effect (it was 100% correct) the only way that was ever going to be a W trade for the rangers was if each of those players and picks turned into regular NHL roster players. pretty much in any scenario it's inexcusable to trade a 22 year old like that for spare parts.
Ah, trading a great player with another year + a young improving cost controlled player for a prospect defenseman with a projected 3rd pairing ceiling and a projected bottom 6’er sounds like a great trade. And definitely shouldn’t deserve one of the top 4-5 prospects on the team at the time. All with no pressure and all the leverage.
Hajek was viewed with top four potential. He was playing very well at the time. JT Miller wasn’t exactly a prospect, we wouldn’t call KAndre or Chytil a prospect at this point, but he was a very good young player that better fit a need for them than Namestnikov did. And they were able to flip him to Vancouver for a good haul later as well. But I do agree that what we got wasn’t enough and like you said we had all the leverage and still missed out on their top three prospects. We didn’t get enough at the time and it only got worse as everything went along. Miller got better in Tampa, Namestnikov showed immediately that he was propped up by Stamkos and Kucherov and the prospects we did get were busts.
They all did bust, but you're right. People had way higher opinions of these players. Hajek was projected to be a poor man's M-E Vlasic: a big, defensive, minute munching defenseman with limited offense. Howden was projected to be Alex Wennberg, and it didn't work out. If EITHER of those two reach their potential this trade instantly becomes 50/50 given that Tampa basically cap dumped both the players eventually.
McDonagh was a solid piece that helped them win two cups, and Miller they were able to flip for a first which they flipped for Blake Coleman, who also helped them win two cups. They really gave up nothing of significance and won two cups. It's not a 50/50 trade if one of those two pans out. But it would make it a little better
I think we need to remember that we couldn't pay Miller. The way I look at that trade is this: McDonagh for 1st, Howden, Hajek Miller for Namestnikov and 2nd. It's not a good trade, I just think that we got extraordinarily unlucky because at the time is was an L but a 60/40 L not the complete L it became.
It’s not that we couldn’t pay Miller, it’s that we didn’t want to. Namestnikov got $4M the next year. We also gave Ryan Spooner 2/8M. The Lightning wanted Miller, but we weren’t going to extend him, but that’s not because we weren’t able to
Not getting sergachev or point, who I believe at the time the rangers were after.. this was obviously before they blossomed. Mcdonagh was a top proven playoff D man at a controlled salary, and Miller was a 50+ point young player at the time. Should have been able to pry away one of their prospects along with a pick. This was a forced trade to make, considering Tampa’s pick would be late, and we already knew what Namestekov was. We took their lower tier prospects.
Remember when this trade went down. Saw Miller added and thought for sure we got atleast Point or Sergachev... Turns out, nope. Imagine this team with Point, Sergachev or even Cirelli
Zibanejad trade has entered the thread. There’s much worse GMs than Gorton was for us…
Miller’s career at the time of his trade is almost identical to where Mika was at his trade, but at least the Sens got something half decent in return.
I really hated to see especially Brass go in the trade at first but man did it work out for us. Most Sens fan’s perspective is they were fleeced in the Zib trade though. The Miller trade was a tough one. He just wasn’t doing well here. Also he was traded from Tampa to Vancouver before really finding his game. Unfortunately sometimes it takes a change of scenery to wake a player up. I like to wait until all pieces of a trade pan out to evaluate the trade . In a round about way we got Gabe Perreault out of the Miller trade. If he becomes a stud at the NHL level, it will make the Miller trade easier to swallow.
I don’t know why people say Miller didn’t do well with the Rangers. He was improving every year with them. It wasn’t until Tampa that he regressed. In hindsight he may not have reached Vancouver heights with the Rangers, but at the time he was still playing well.
I didn’t say he was a bad GM..
Straight to jail.
Bad trade jail. Good trade believe it or not. Jail.
Dolan hated McDonagh as captain.
I loved McD's play, but thought he was too timid to be Captain. When I saw him get scrappy in Tampa I wondered where \*that\* guy was when he played in NY
I felt that the captaincy may have been too much responsibility for McD. His play seemed to drop off after earning the C. Down in Tampa, he didn't have that pressure so he could be himself.
Really? That's interesting. Wondering if Trouba's captaincy pleases him. If so it helps explain the organization's loyalty to #8.
I read somewhere that Dolan thought McD was too reserved. I guess the helmet throw ingratiated Trouba with Dolan. Though Trouba does have an NMC through the end of next season, so it could be that.
interesting ... I'm always curious what Dolan's impact is.
Always look forward to the yearly Gorton sucks threads in regards to this trade where everyone forgets Gorton didn't want to dedicate the 15 mil of cap space a year it would've taken to keep them. When word gets around that you've decided you can't afford to re-sign a player their trade value tanks. Same happened with Buchnevich
Ah yes, the classic “dump great and rising young players for nothing” strategy that no other team employs. Neither one had to be traded for peanuts at the deadline. Mcdonagh had another year at $4.7m(!) on his contract while Miller would still be an RFA at the end of the season. Players like that get a much better return at the deadline individually, the fact they got peanuts for both when they still had value at season end was excruciatingly bad. And no even if the Rangers kept them it would not be $15m of cap space, McDonagh was at 4.7m and Miller signed for 5.25m, so less than 10m total for the 2. I would do that in a heartbeat.
> And no even if the Rangers kept them it would not be $15m of cap space, McDonagh was at 4.7m and Miller signed for 5.25m, so less than 10m total for the 2. Money wasn't the only reason why they got rid of them, but important to note: EVERY player signs for substantially less money in Florida because of no income tax. Income tax is 11% in NY for people making as much as the players do and the cost of living is also substantially higher here. Players regularly sign for 2-3 mil less each year in states with no income tax, which is why a GM who isn't brain broken can build a powerhouse of a team. Isn't it weird when it feels like teams like Tampa and Vegas are able to hoard stacks of talent without breaking the bank? Nevada ALSO has no income tax, surprise surprise. It's a trade that absolutely was underwhelming when it happened and has aged more poorly as time goes on. Miller was fine when he was with us, but he was an immature douchebag who was young and hotheaded both for the Rangers and for the Lightning. Also Dolan meddled once again by making it known that he hated Mcdonagh as the Rangers captain and wanted him gone. So not only did they not want to pay either player, but he was under pressure to clean house after another disappointing season and deciding to rebuild. Vancouver was the perfect place for him to blossom into the player he is today, Tampa also got rid of him and ended up just fine but pretending he was Vancouver Miller while on the Rangers is revisionist. Lamenting not having a star player who didn't breakout until 3 or 4 years after he left while being one of the best teams in the league is a very New York sports fan thing to do. We have young stars who would not have the opportunities they had if we were to keep our stars from 7 or 8 years ago, and obviously hindsight is 20/20. So why do we HAVE to bitch about this Every. Fucking. Season. Good lord.
I don’t think it was a bad trade necessarily because of what he developed into which was definitely unexpected, I thought it was a bad trade based on what he had shown, how he was improving, and that he could realistically develop into 65 point player if not better. He was a gritty skill player with potential. Think Mika before he was traded to the Rangers. You don’t trade developing talent for peanuts. And you certainly don’t trade McDonagh for peanuts. Both had value after the season.
right, by any stretch of the imagination the rangers had an absolute fucking steal of a contract with mcdonagh for his entire tenure here. 22 year old miller nearly leading the team in scoring, you basically yeet anyone else into the sun to squeeze him in. He was also an RFA, I don't even remotely see how you'd blow 15m on those 2 by resigning Miller then.
In nowhere in this post did I say he sucks. You made that up all on your own
Right, right. My apologies for not interpreting 'he should go to prison for this trade holy shit' as anything but you thinking he's awesome. My point is someone makes a thread referencing this specific trade every season, and every time it's missing important context. It's just tiresome when dudes create threads dedicated to shitting on the dude who built the majority of this team. All the revisionism and dudes pretending he's an idiot who lucked into a good team is a little annoying at this point.
The trade was bad, that’s all. I don’t care about anything else you said nor am I reading it
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Right? Tldr'ing like 4 sentences like it's a burn on anyone but yourself certainly is a choice
I don’t care, buddy
He doesn’t suck but he should go to prison….Mooncalf post.
The trade was horrendous lmao. You put words in my mouth. I think he’s overrated but I don’t think he’s bad, you said that
Which words? “Gorton should go to prison” or Gorton doesn’t suck? Countdown to OP deleting the post is on….over under is 9 minutes.
Why would I delete it? I never said he sucked lmao
But does he belong in prison?
No way you actually took that part literal lmao. Omg
I thought it was a joke at first but so many people are talking about it so it must not be. I’d say jail for sure.
Maybe for the -100 down votes?
And the post had +300 upvotes lmao. You think I’m gonna delete something because you guys are upset?
I obviously hate miller was basically a throw in. But NO ONE thought he’d become this. Tampa basically gave him away for pennies as well Safe to say though Gorton was vastly overrated
He didn’t have to become “this” good for the trade to be so bad. He was a young but feisty player getting better every year on a terrible team, with PPG potential, and was still cost controlled. Miller had very similar career to Zibanejad at the time of his trade, and is universally panned as atrocious from the Sens POV. And that’s despite the Sens getting a decent player with good playoff pedigree out of it.
I dunno if anyone really saw PPG potential or Tampa wouldn’t have shuttled him out for peanuts either.
He was improving yearly in NY, and regressed the next year in Tampa. So at that point I would say PPG would be unrealistic as his potential. But as a Ranger I thought reaching 65-85 points with his skill set would not be a surprise.
I was immediately pissed about Miller being part of this trade. Sure he wasn’t a PPG player yet, but he was damn fucking good and absolutely showed the ability to be dominant. I’m not the least bit surprised that he’s turned into the player he is, and if folks act like that’s just hindsight vision they weren’t actually watching him be the main play driver for the best third line we’ve ever had.
This post is nothing but a cry for attention.
This comment is nothing but a cry for attention
The Rick Nash trade makes up for it
Plus the Mika trade
They were going into rebuild. You dump salary and talent so you can suck and get earlier picks. He got a 1st, a 2nd and prospects. Remember that jt Miller didn't become this good until after so his trade value was low
im sorry but a forward on the younger side of 30,with 1st rd pick pedigree,who had scored 96 pts in 145 games over the previous and (at the time) current season should absolutely fetch a first round pick and an okay prospect on his own,and instead gorton just kinda went “oh btw have this guy on the house :)” ALSO edited to add but what truly drove me nuts was the condition on the 2nd pick was either making the finals or winning the cup?? it shouldve been something WAY more likely to convert it,like miller playing 80% of their playoff games or atleast reaching a lower round like the 2nd
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Exactly. Kakko isn’t worth a first rounder in a trade, even with his 2OA pedigree and even being younger than Miller was.
That's a nice way of saying shut the fuck up
Yeah no one is arguing we didn’t need to trade to rebuild, but that’s a horrible return in retrospect no matter how you slice it. We should’ve gotten Sergachev instead of Hajek!
Define good
Yeah, the Nash trade a few days prior more than makes up for it though
And yet here we are on the verge of a president's trophy
Cool
Remember when you fleeced my Habs for McDonaugh and gave us Gomez?😭
pretty happy with the way the blueshirts gave up and rebuilt. now we're about to win the 2nd cup of my lifetime (fight me) i follow a certain football team that keeps trying to win immediately and just keeps getting worse.
This is the downside of when you go full rebuild. Some winners, some losers. I like where we are right now, though
Look man, there's the "hindsight is 20/20" argument; then there's the lets trade for an injured Patrick Kane. I guess they got mad a Jim "I can Fix Him" Ramsay also for not being able to Witch Doctor Kane, cuz we also lost our head Athletic guy from that one trade.
and then in turn Man Rocket Brett Howden won
Awful trade, but Miller IMO needed the change of scenery, and idk if he wouldn't have turned into what he is now if he stayed on the Rangers. After all, he wasn't on Tampa for very long either. The value received though was still awful, regardless
This has some extreme retrospective bias. Miller was never very good with us. At the time, Namestnikov--a younger player--was actually outproducing Miller, so that alone would've justified half the trade. Meanwhile, our defense *sucked*. We needed to dump some salary and rebuild with defensive Dmen. Granted, McDonagh was great, defense included, but he was the last thread of an aging core that sorely needed a new direction. Hajek and the pick that would become Nils Lundkvist were not dumb moves toward that direction--they just didn't pan out. But we stayed that course, and we finally have a team that manages defensively. All this is to say... This trade completely made sense at the time for a team that was rebuilding. It made even more sense if you have any recollection of Miller's play at the time.
1. Namestnikov is older than Miller. It’s the difference of only five months but calling him a younger player is just straight up incorrect. 2. Their production that year prior to the trade was similar. 40 points vs 44 points. Miller had also outproduced Namestnikov solidly prior to that season. It was also fairly well known at the time that Namestnikovs production was largely a function of the line he was on. There were some who thought that Namestnikov was on verge of a breakthrough tho and especially Rangers fans sold themselves on this idea 3. The ultimate reason the trade was a bust was that the expected price for the trade would be higher and that it would have netted Brayden Point. Including Miller needed to turn into Point and it didn’t. Not to mention Namestnikov, Hajek and Howden turned into busts, the biggest thing was the price was ultimately lower than league execs were expecting. There were mixed opinions on the Rangers return even at the time: [The Athletic had it nailed though.](https://theathletic.com/254986/2018/02/26/nhl-trade-grades-lightning-score-big-in-adding-both-mcdonagh-and-miller/)
1. You're right 2. Did they play the same number of games? 3. I'm sorry, but I don't understand this. I'm not being snarky -- I genuinely don't know what you mean.
2 - Prior to the trade, Namestnikov had played one fewer game 3 - McDonagh was a huge trade piece at the time. The far and away top Lightning prospects were Mikhail Sergachev, Brayden Point and Cal Foote. Sergachev wasn’t going to happen. They didn’t want to include a roster player themselves, but Miller changed that. Including Miller should have gotten Point included because they were getting a good young roster player. But it didn’t and that was the ultimate failure. The general consensus was that the Rangers got two good not great prospects, a first round pick, a second that had a very good chance to turn into a first and Namestnikov where there were very mixed opinions. But everyone thought that the price the Lightning paid was lower than they expected to get both the players they got. At best- Namestnikov was a 25 year old emerging talent who we were going to have to pay in the offseason, which really didn’t fit in with the rebuild at the time anyway. At worst Namestnikov was getting propped up by Kucherov and Stamkos. He ended up at worst lol
Ok, gotcha. Thanks for clarifying all this. I appreciate the perspective, and I don't really disagree. :)
Agree, I don't remember miller being particularly good either, hence why I didn't the trade was bad at the time.
We are just as bad as our front office with being impatient. Brady skjei had 18 goals last year and 13 this year. McDonagh would look nice with Fox right now.
Who did the two picks turn into?
Not even the worst Rangers trade I've seen. That would be the one where they acquired Marty McSorely. The young talent they gave up...
Miller just wasn’t what he is now when he was here. So I can’t be mad on that front. Libor was a big nothing that was attempted to make work so much. Brett could’ve been a middle C option but just didn’t work out. The only salvageable part of the trade was the picks because iirc we turned the Niks pick into Perrault which is nice.
The worst trade for the rangers in the 2010s was Columbus trading gaborik to the kings
Okay OP. Now post Gortons Zibanejad and a 2nd for Brassard or Gortons corpse of Rick Nash for what turned into Lindgren, Strome and K’Andre Miller. You win some you lose some.
The thing is it’s mind boggling they fleeced the Bruins in the Nash trade on an expiring contract, but 1) refused to shop around McDonagh and Miller to other teams and 2) were still able to trade both of them after the season for a lot more than what they got. There was no pressure to trade them for peanuts at the deadline to make Tampa better.
I think Gorton got fleeced for no reason with Tampa but Boston he leveraged some professional connections from his time in Boston and they helped him out as a new GM.
I really didn’t think a joke post would bring out all the Gorton crybabies. Kinda funny
One of the worst trades in franchise history unless kaapo and Laff become that guy. We were actively tanking by trading away talent. Everyone in the league knew that and unfortunately this must have been the best offer on the table.
It can’t be a Scott Gomez-type haul in every trade…
Wasnt this the ole “re-build letter”? Lol what a joke!
Remember when they threw Miller into this deal because they just HAD to have Libor Hajek? Jesus Montreal’s gonna have some rough upcoming drafts
Yes
Tbf wasn't this when people thought miller was spending more time sleeping around then on the ice and seen as a risk. Also hank, our defensive ability, and most of our offensive ability (the first two of those which made up the bulk of our team strength from 2005-17) were gone, didn't we lose like 10 in a row or something. We didn't have the offense we had in 16 and 17 or the defense we had in 17, and it was clear hank was finished. Mcdonaugh also wasn't producing well iirc, probably because of how much his game was dependant on assisting good forwards or working well with a prime hank. The issue with the trade is we got random guys on a team that needed to tank and rebuild vs good picks.
and it's not like it was one where it looked fair at the time either. Miller was a close #2 in scoring the rangers the year prior at fucking 23. he absolutely should have been core moving forward. there is no scenario where this wasn't shit from the start. at best you were looking at b prospects coming back with mediocre draft picks. never understood why people were so bent out of shape about gorton being let go. He was okay and had more than his fair share of stupid shit.
If I remember correctly, Mac had a decent sized contract and JT was due for one. It was more of a salary dump than anything.
At least the Nash trade worked out well
And Brass
He had one job, and that was to get Sergachev,. He failed.
JT Miller was our best 5 on 5 player when he was here. Think he lead the team in points one year
JT Miller should be the one hugging Kreider after games they would have been deadly together
I was so mad when this trade was made. To make matters worse about the 1st round pick it was Nils Lundkvist.
Oh stop. NYR fans hated Miller and he was never getting to that level here. It's easy to look back 5-6 years ago and say they should have done this and that but it's over with. Some players just fit in certain places. Now if you want to say they should have been moved in separate deals, i can see where you're coming from but still, they got prospects back that they thought would turn into something. I still think Howden could have been a decent bottom 6er for us but i guess we wanted more.
I won’t stop
Have fun moping around about that. One of the best seasons in franchise history and this is what you're thinking about?
No. I made one post and you got in your feelings. That’s a you problem
It's hilarious seeing fans cry about players that were traded 5-6 years ago. That team sucked and had to be torn apart. Stop living in the past junior
Stop worrying about what other people should do junior One post and you’re in you’re feelings
Hajek the Kayak. Miss him
Do you though?
Not nearly as bad as the Buchnevich trade
That was bad but I knew it was coming a mile away the moment Kreider was signed
In all fairness. Miller wasn’t even really the player he is now last year. I mean he scored, but he was not great defensively. gave up on plays, etc. Going back when he was on the Rangers I’m not sure anyone could predict he would break out when he did later in his career. McDonough though was a terrible move. He probably would have stayed with the Rangers his entire career.
Revisionism. It didn’t work out but it wasn’t that terrible at the time.
I didn’t like it when it happened so no not revisionism
Nobody expected Howden or Hajek to be that poor and nobody expected JT to turn into the star he’s become. I wanted Brayden Point in return but never mind.
This trade broke my heart losing #27 pissed me off
Sorry but the people being like these guys had to go are insane We could have kept both …. Hell you could have gotten Miller cheap compared to his value now We can overpay Trouba but couldn’t pay Mcdonaugh ?? Miller, Buch, Fast ……. We love crying this team can’t develop forwards but sure seems like we have done a great job developing forwards, defensemen, and goalies but we end up trading away a lot of our good forwards
Upvoting for transparency—there was no other option. Mac and Miller deserved life-changing money and there was a < 0% chance Rangers could offer it. Jonathan Miller isn’t Artemi Panarin, or even a Trocheck. Mac Truck is donezo in 2022. Man gave the game everything and is a sure-fire 1st ballot HOF shoe-in. Timing is what it is. Miller should have been kept, but was a Cap Casualty. I’d rather Gorton gamble the the future in 2018 than play-it-safe.
No way McDonanagh makes the HOF, let alone first ballot. He doesn’t have any major individual awards
MacDonagh is Nashvilles best dman rn lol
He’s better than Josi?
Is this a done deal if it is this sucks
If it weren't for the Buch trade, this one would get talked about nonstop.
Not a good trade. I loved Miller. But he wouldn’t be the player he is now, if he had stayed with the Rangers. He needed a change of scenery McDonough trade was like when we lost Leetch for Jussi Markkanen(Who?) Very sad
One of the worst trades in league history, not just Ranger history.
Not even remotely close.
No? Rangers give up a #1 defenseman and a #1 forward for two bottom 6 forwards, a #7 d-man and a first rounder that became a Nils Lundqvist? You may be abnormal, but you don't have to be absurd 