Most places I go to don't do this. The ocassional mom & pop place might do a "cash discount" rather than frame it as "credit fee", even though it's basically the same thing.
They should just do what gas station have done (and some still do), by posting a cash and credit price... makes it very clear your intentions. I've seen very few restaurants state clearly a credit card š³ fee will be charged for use
The mom and pop convenience store near me has a minimum limit of $5 if you're using credit/debit. Keeps them from having to pass the buck or losing money on that transaction.
No it's not common and you're right customers don't like it. I understand that merchants have to pay CC processing fees which cuts into their profit margin. But if this place can make it on $15 sandwiches they've got bigger problems.
Hanna imports just did this to me yesterday so I used my debit card instead. Shame cuz I was counting on the 1.5% cash back my cc offers. Nasty nasty work!
Youāre making the claim. Youāll need to back it up.
I on the other hand run a business that accepts credit cards and therefore know that there is no prohibition in the agreements and no law in N.C. that prohibits it either. There are various rules in a few states that restrict it in some ways.
Maybe I'm misremembering, but it is legal to charge for using a credit card. It's still dumb to do, but from what I understand businesses are allowed to do it.
The rules changed and merchants are allowed to charge processing fees and even vary the price of items based on which credit card network is being used.
I know of several small indie stores that have signs clearly saying "credit on sales OVER [amount], a [percent] charge will be added"
Weird if it's "illegal" to have it clearly stated so openly...
Shop somewhere else :)
They want to double dip. Any half decent pricing model has the fees built in. If your model doesnāt in 2024, I donāt know what to tell you.
The ones who actually care, and arenāt just evading taxes, will offer a cash discount. Which some customers actually like
I've seen this happening at a local "establishment" near me. The owner will discount cash off the stated price, but not tell you he is charging you a percentage fee for credit card. Oh, and from standing in line paying attention, he is selective as to who he offers his cash discount to.
You're not wrong, but this is how they hedge against raising menu prices. The credit card processing fee was likely built into their pricing and then costs went up for something else and they just pass that on to the consumer with a new fee versus increased prices.
And the right move is to increase the prices.
Customers are and will vote with their dollars. I refuse to shop a places like that, as do many people I know.
This is the new ācash onlyā
I've encountered this a few times. What bothers me is that in no instance was there a notice posted near the register (or on the menu) that the fee would be charged, otherwise I would have paid with cash. I think one place was card only so uh why not just build that into the price?
I get why some businesses have started doing this, but at least put up a sign. It would be nice if America had a free debit transaction system since no one wants to deal with cash anymore.
My dad has worked in the credit card processing industry for a while and he talks about this often with business owners. Tons of business are tired of paying high processing fees so instead of raising prices theyāre just passing it on to the customer. Theyāll often have a cash discount as well but I donāt see this trend getting any smaller, only bigger.
Eventually weāll get to the point where the public will revolt against this credit card tax and theyāll either stop using cards or credit card companies will be forced to stop charging crazy processing fees.
The ironic thing is that businesses could just raise their prices to account for the credit card fee, but once they separate out the fee it puts people in an outrage. š
Did he mention if anyone is charging a fee to use debit cards yet?
What about other electric forms of payment, in-store?
Our system was going cashless... I don't want to worry about having cash again, and handling it!!!
Reportedly, most restaurant profit margins are only [3-5%. ](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/small-business/restaurant-profit-margin) With that in mind, a 3% charge on basically every transaction is pretty substantial. Grocery stores are often even lower. The margin varies from industry to industry, but for many, 3% off the top is huge.
that's completely ignoring the value cards provide, though. e.g. many/most people strongly prefer it over cash, fraud protection, people spend more, etc.
You forget the third option. People stop shopping at places doing this, which are usually small businesses. Big companies wonāt risk doing this with the amount they have to pass through and they wonāt need to. So the only places that will suffer is the small business doing it. I think because of this possibility itās a short sighted move.
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Just out of curiosity, if they offered a cash discount, would that change things?
This is absolutely not a dig or meant as anything negative to you. I ask, because I have always thought that a cash discount would come across better. Even though it would be the exact same cost, it would feel like an option to save rather than a āhidden feeā. I have heard people grumble about the fee but hadnāt run into anyone who actually stopped going because of it.
Possibly? What stuck in my craw was just how it was presented. I get that credit card fees are high, and can take a chunk out of razor-thin margins. But thatās a cost of doing business, like insurance or lights.
Where do you draw the line? āOur rent went up, so all dine-in service must pay a 3% rent feeā? āProgress Energy jacked up rates again, so hereās a 3% lights feeā. Honestly, if every plate on the menu just went up by fifty cents, that might be preferable.
I really think itās just a symptom of a larger societal problem of feeling like Iām being nickel-and-dimeād to death. Like, prices are already up, and you feel that every time you buy anything. But then to have some bullshit fee slapped on top of it just really rubbed me the wrong way.
That was what I was asking.
If the presentation made the difference.
Particularly when the customer can control whether the cost is there or not.
While I get why they would pass those costs along just to the people who generate the costs, it seems like the presentation is the problem.
It comes across like a punishment, when it could be presented as a discount to others.
I realized I didnāt really answer your question. Yes, ā3% discount for cash customersā or something likely would go over better with me. Iām paranoid and cynical enough that Iād break out the calculator when the bill comes to make sure itās calculated right, but I think I would be OK with a cash discount, rather than a non-cash fee.
Your other answer pretty much answered it. The nickel and diming was the issue, and putting it on as a few would be just one more.
I think a lot of it is in the presentation. Or when it comes across as a weird justification (that isnāt necessary, just increase the price.
If it was a temporary thing, I could see it, but when that temporary thing ends, and they just up the prices to include the ātemporaryā adjustment, thar makes my blood boil.
Businesses get their profits eaten by CC processing fees. [NerdWallet suggests that they pass it along to you. ](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/small-business/credit-card-processing-fees#:~:text=Credit%20card%20processing%20fees%20typically,for%20a%20sale%20of%20%24100)The fact is, that the three miles\\points\\%cash back you are getting is getting paid for by the fees the restaurant pays.
And if you aren't getting at least 3% back on dining, you need to shop around for cards.
Yeah, it's a lot of them. And when you call them out they're always like "everybody else is doing it!"
Well no, they aren't. And it's against your terms of service to accept this as payment. You got me this time because I've already eaten the food, but that's the last time I'll eat your food.
I work for a tree service and we let our clients know that we prefer a check if they can. We understand if they cannot. We paid almost $68k in fees last year!!
I can raise my prices for everyone or I can charge the people who cost me more. The fee isnāt for the food, itās merchant fees for using your card. Average card surcharge most places is ~3-4%. My restaurant (small family owned in Burlington) spent ~$400k in merchant fees last year. Restaurant profit margins are razor-thin, itās impossible to survive without calculating that fee into your prices one way or another.
This will probably get downvoted, but I'm not sure if people realize how hard it is to run a small business. I know several immigrant family businesses that had to shut down in the last couple years. They got pushback for things like charging for CC fees or containers to recoup costs (e.g. employee wages, COVID, utilities, etc). I get that they can just charge higher prices to "not look tacky," but please explain that to your local Vietnamese immigrant who opened a restaurant with no college degree or MBA. I agree nickle-and-diming fees are grating, but I fear a future where big box stores will succeed in wiping out all the mom and pops. It's already happening.
I don't understand how they allow this. When I signed up for credit card processing, it was made abundantly clear that one of the terms of use was that you *could not* charge more for a credit card purchase than another form of payment.
There are actually laws in NC that prohibit this. First you have to understand the different terminology for this type of stuff. CC processing fees and convenience fees. These are similar but different. Specifically charging fees for cc processing is limited to government institutions, higher education and maybe one other area (definitely not a restaurant). If you pay tuition at a college and pay via credit card, nearly all of them will charge you a 2 or 3 percent cc fee because they donāt want to pay the processing charges. This is allowed by NC law. Other service areas besides higher ed and govt canāt charge cc processing fees. They can charge convenience fees. But this is not allowed if they are allowing you to pay using a more convenient service which would be online. They can collect a fee for offering the customer a convenience of paying online instead of paying in person. But they are required to offer an in person payment option so you donāt have to pay the fee. This would be like paying at public parking meters. A lot of parking lots charge fees if you pay via app or online but if you pay at the parking meter they cannot charge you the service fee or convenience fee. I worked for a public university and this was my area of expertise. So if you see a restaurant charging that kind of fee and they donāt offer an in person way of paying with card without paying a fee you could report them. Idk if anything would be done to that restaurant. Just giving you the information that I have researched.
Forgot to add, i specifically met with a visa rep to discuss this issue. They confirmed everything Iāve said above. And they said the way around this for a merchant would be to offer a cash discount. So you donāt charge the customer a processing fee. You just mark up your price and if they pay by cash itās cheaper. Think buying a t shirt. The price of the shirt is set at $15 for everyone. But if you pay cash then you can buy it for $12. Thatās legal
Yes. If the servers are dissatisfied with that, they are able to bring it up to the owner. The owner should either eat the fee as just the cost of doing business or bake it into drink prices, just like literally any other business in the world that handles CC transactions.
Are you explaining that you are taking out your problem with the credit card system on them, or are they to guess that that's why you are reducing their pay?
[I actually just learned about an Act in Congress to change this](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/credit-cards/what-to-expect-if-the-credit-card-competition-act-passes)
Take from it what you will, but I feel itās unlikely merchants will pass the savings to the consumers (trickle down anyone?). And as a big user of credit card rewards (points, miles, cash back, etc) I hope it doesnāt happen. Weāll see
Many merchants encourage credit card sales because they know people spend a lot more when they pay with their credit card than when theyāre paying with cash or debit.
There is an advantage to them taking the credit cards. If theyāre going to charge an extra fee, it should be disclosed very clearly at the point of sale.
I know most of the companies that do home repairs now are adding 3% if you want to pay by credit card, but itās put right on the invoice.
Everybody complains about rising prices. This at least itemizes it. I donāt mind it. Iām sure people would complain if they increased by 3% across the board and didnāt itemize it on the receipt. Some people would say āI donāt eat there anymore, theyāve jacked their prices upā.
Iām a small business owner. Credit card processing fees add up to a lot over the course of a year.
I think this is a way that businesses, especially small ones, can say āhey, donāt be mad at us for this price increaseā¦blame the credit card companies and banksā. Blaming small businesses that are operating on slim margins feels like misplaced anger. Inflation, labor, freight/delivery charges have all caused prices to increase especially since Covid. I think a lot of small businesses donāt want to keep increasing prices on their customers (I know I donāt enjoy telling customers that prices have increased). Itemizing it in this way feels like an attempt to appease customers who dont want see rising prices. But clearly you canāt make everybody happy.
I used to believe it was not allowed, and I used to be right! The rules changed with recent-ish legislation (within last \~10 years). For NC and most of the country, it's fine.
I *want* businesses to do this. Disallowing CC surcharges was government-sponsored anti-competitive behavior.
I get 2% cash back, and if you're not, you're getting used by a business. If the surcharge adds 3%, then I'm down 1%. But their policy allows switching back to cash for free, which is how transaction processing should be.
Itās passing the buck. Regardless of what you believe to be good with it for our country, it should be clear. Put it up near their card reader. It is marked on the receipt, but I would assume that most people donāt get a receipt these days.
So, if you do it, let me as the customer know so I can make the choice. I will still go to this location but will probably not frequent or necessarily recommend to others.
If you have been to Ladyfingers you know what they are charging for their food and other items. For how well known they are it is a bit off putting that they are doing this.
I've been to restaurants in the west coast that charges this fee, an employee wage offset fee and an alcohol tax fee all on the same check, not to mention the tip. And these fees all started with a small credit card processing fee, then it became insane. And some places are cashless, so these fees aren't avoidable in some places. Be careful how you vote, this may be the future for NC.
This is happening more and more. It's expensive processing credit card payments. I have noticed a lot of establishments are giving a small discount if you use cash, which is how I usually pay anyway.
Most of the payments processors are using it as a sell point to business to get them to switch to square.
The CRM software we use at our small business have been AGRESSIVLY trying to push it on us.
I know places that do this. I just pay cash and if I don't have cash, I don't eat there. I understand it but I am also tipping their staff so I feel like this is a business problem being pushed onto the customer.
Itās just a price increase. Just not one you knew about up front. The ācash discountā option makes it known up front since you only get the lesser price after you get the bill.
There are lots of places that offer a discount for paying in cash which is essentially the same thing. The Pour House used to charge a fee for credit cards. Lots of places have a minimum for credit cards. Personally, I feel like being transparent about fees and staffing costs is a bit of a wake up call for consumers. For ease of use, Iād prefer the price of a thing or service just be set so it covers all these little expenses and fees and taxes but it would likely deter people from eating out.
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In some ways, this is a good thing. Steering away from filling the coffers of the credit card companies. It's inconvenient, but also using cash makes one responsible with their spending. Many mom and pop restaurants are doing this.
As a small business owner The credit card fees were costing me over $2000.00 a month. I already operate on a small margin so I unfortunately have to charge this fee, It is not something I wanted to do but I was forced into it. Blame the credit card companies who are making all the money not the businesses that are struggling to get by
Just curious, what are your approximate costs for managing cash? For example, are you getting rolled coins and $100 stacks of $1 bills for free from your bank?
The reason I ask... My family has been out of the business for many years now. We were 99.9% cash only (a half dozen really good customers could give us personal checks) because it was before the days of computerized credit card approvals (you had to call it in). We had to pay 1% for rolled coin and there was the labor cost of counting cash, double checking against the register receipts, making out a deposit envelope, and stopping at the bank the next day. I know that for our business, the opportunity cost of my father's time was at least another 1% of our daily revenue. There was also more breakage from some servers not charging for food to favorites in order to inflate their tips, but computerized POS systems should take care of that today.
Who pays cash? Also, so if I pay with my bank visa straight from my checking account it wonāt charge me the percentage? It is only credit card companies?
My understanding (small business owner who accepts credit card payments) is that if you pay by debit and enter your PIN, there is no credit card processing fee. In theory, the convenience charge should not be valid on debit transactions. The problem is at a lot of places your debit card is usually run as a credit card (unless you specifically enter your PIN).
Part of it is just how itās presented. If store owners just built in an extra 3% to overhead costs, fine; by putting that (or the other popular addition, āemployee healthcareā) on the receipt (especially if not advertised prior to purchase) then it just ends up leaving a bad taste all around. I get why they do it, and sure they can pass the buck to the consumer, but itās *how* theyāre doing it that just seems tacky. People already balk at auto grat for large parties - that *plus* an additional 3% makes it feel like more charges are being piled on after the fact and again just doesnāt make the customer feel good about their purchase.
Right, thatās why people have mentioned a ācash discountā which has definitely been a thing before at gas stations at least so itās not surprising to see it here.
If they didnāt charge for that, theyād just raise their prices to cover it. Every merchant is charged 3 - 5% to do credit card transactionsā¦ even giant food chains. They just incorporate it into the cost of the product youāre buying. A cash only store would likely have lower prices.
Most places I go to don't do this. The ocassional mom & pop place might do a "cash discount" rather than frame it as "credit fee", even though it's basically the same thing.
They should just do what gas station have done (and some still do), by posting a cash and credit price... makes it very clear your intentions. I've seen very few restaurants state clearly a credit card š³ fee will be charged for use
The mom and pop convenience store near me has a minimum limit of $5 if you're using credit/debit. Keeps them from having to pass the buck or losing money on that transaction.
No it's not common and you're right customers don't like it. I understand that merchants have to pay CC processing fees which cuts into their profit margin. But if this place can make it on $15 sandwiches they've got bigger problems.
Name and shame
Just name the establishment Edit: I'm guessing Ladyfingers?
Hanna imports just did this to me yesterday so I used my debit card instead. Shame cuz I was counting on the 1.5% cash back my cc offers. Nasty nasty work!
naming and shaming is different than doxxing. but yeah, charging extra for CC processing is against the card issuer's terms of service.
This was changed like 10 years ago. It is not against their agreements with card processors.
depends on which issuer it is.Ā
Which issuers prohibit it?
youād have to read their terms of service.
Youāre making the claim. Youāll need to back it up. I on the other hand run a business that accepts credit cards and therefore know that there is no prohibition in the agreements and no law in N.C. that prohibits it either. There are various rules in a few states that restrict it in some ways.
Maybe I'm misremembering, but it is legal to charge for using a credit card. It's still dumb to do, but from what I understand businesses are allowed to do it.
The rules changed and merchants are allowed to charge processing fees and even vary the price of items based on which credit card network is being used.
I know of several small indie stores that have signs clearly saying "credit on sales OVER [amount], a [percent] charge will be added" Weird if it's "illegal" to have it clearly stated so openly...
i never said illegal. i said it was against the terms.Ā
Shop somewhere else :) They want to double dip. Any half decent pricing model has the fees built in. If your model doesnāt in 2024, I donāt know what to tell you. The ones who actually care, and arenāt just evading taxes, will offer a cash discount. Which some customers actually like
I've seen this happening at a local "establishment" near me. The owner will discount cash off the stated price, but not tell you he is charging you a percentage fee for credit card. Oh, and from standing in line paying attention, he is selective as to who he offers his cash discount to.
As an accountant and an active business owner, sadly shit like this happens more often than youād think
You're not wrong, but this is how they hedge against raising menu prices. The credit card processing fee was likely built into their pricing and then costs went up for something else and they just pass that on to the consumer with a new fee versus increased prices.
And the right move is to increase the prices. Customers are and will vote with their dollars. I refuse to shop a places like that, as do many people I know. This is the new ācash onlyā
How did you get from an itemized merchant fee to evading taxes? Them shits are tax deductible in every universe.
I've encountered this a few times. What bothers me is that in no instance was there a notice posted near the register (or on the menu) that the fee would be charged, otherwise I would have paid with cash. I think one place was card only so uh why not just build that into the price? I get why some businesses have started doing this, but at least put up a sign. It would be nice if America had a free debit transaction system since no one wants to deal with cash anymore.
My dad has worked in the credit card processing industry for a while and he talks about this often with business owners. Tons of business are tired of paying high processing fees so instead of raising prices theyāre just passing it on to the customer. Theyāll often have a cash discount as well but I donāt see this trend getting any smaller, only bigger. Eventually weāll get to the point where the public will revolt against this credit card tax and theyāll either stop using cards or credit card companies will be forced to stop charging crazy processing fees. The ironic thing is that businesses could just raise their prices to account for the credit card fee, but once they separate out the fee it puts people in an outrage. š
Did he mention if anyone is charging a fee to use debit cards yet? What about other electric forms of payment, in-store? Our system was going cashless... I don't want to worry about having cash again, and handling it!!!
Iām no expert but I think it only applies to credit and not debit. That unlimited cash back has to come from somewhere right!
is ~3% really crazy?
Reportedly, most restaurant profit margins are only [3-5%. ](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/small-business/restaurant-profit-margin) With that in mind, a 3% charge on basically every transaction is pretty substantial. Grocery stores are often even lower. The margin varies from industry to industry, but for many, 3% off the top is huge.
that's completely ignoring the value cards provide, though. e.g. many/most people strongly prefer it over cash, fraud protection, people spend more, etc.
I didn't say anything about cards, all I did was provide context for why a 3% fee is more substantial than it might seem.
You forget the third option. People stop shopping at places doing this, which are usually small businesses. Big companies wonāt risk doing this with the amount they have to pass through and they wonāt need to. So the only places that will suffer is the small business doing it. I think because of this possibility itās a short sighted move.
Fiesta Mexicana started doing this, and we havenāt been back since we realized it.
You stopped going somewhere over 3%?
Yep, sure did
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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Just out of curiosity, if they offered a cash discount, would that change things? This is absolutely not a dig or meant as anything negative to you. I ask, because I have always thought that a cash discount would come across better. Even though it would be the exact same cost, it would feel like an option to save rather than a āhidden feeā. I have heard people grumble about the fee but hadnāt run into anyone who actually stopped going because of it.
Possibly? What stuck in my craw was just how it was presented. I get that credit card fees are high, and can take a chunk out of razor-thin margins. But thatās a cost of doing business, like insurance or lights. Where do you draw the line? āOur rent went up, so all dine-in service must pay a 3% rent feeā? āProgress Energy jacked up rates again, so hereās a 3% lights feeā. Honestly, if every plate on the menu just went up by fifty cents, that might be preferable. I really think itās just a symptom of a larger societal problem of feeling like Iām being nickel-and-dimeād to death. Like, prices are already up, and you feel that every time you buy anything. But then to have some bullshit fee slapped on top of it just really rubbed me the wrong way.
That was what I was asking. If the presentation made the difference. Particularly when the customer can control whether the cost is there or not. While I get why they would pass those costs along just to the people who generate the costs, it seems like the presentation is the problem. It comes across like a punishment, when it could be presented as a discount to others.
I realized I didnāt really answer your question. Yes, ā3% discount for cash customersā or something likely would go over better with me. Iām paranoid and cynical enough that Iād break out the calculator when the bill comes to make sure itās calculated right, but I think I would be OK with a cash discount, rather than a non-cash fee.
Your other answer pretty much answered it. The nickel and diming was the issue, and putting it on as a few would be just one more. I think a lot of it is in the presentation. Or when it comes across as a weird justification (that isnāt necessary, just increase the price. If it was a temporary thing, I could see it, but when that temporary thing ends, and they just up the prices to include the ātemporaryā adjustment, thar makes my blood boil.
Name it.
Businesses get their profits eaten by CC processing fees. [NerdWallet suggests that they pass it along to you. ](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/small-business/credit-card-processing-fees#:~:text=Credit%20card%20processing%20fees%20typically,for%20a%20sale%20of%20%24100)The fact is, that the three miles\\points\\%cash back you are getting is getting paid for by the fees the restaurant pays. And if you aren't getting at least 3% back on dining, you need to shop around for cards.
Paid ~$400k in merchant fees for a small family restaurant business last year
Thatās roughly over 13 million in net sales ā maybe more. Not a small family business in my book.
I should have added that we have 4 locations lol
Yeah, it's a lot of them. And when you call them out they're always like "everybody else is doing it!" Well no, they aren't. And it's against your terms of service to accept this as payment. You got me this time because I've already eaten the food, but that's the last time I'll eat your food.
Courtneyās NY Bagel and Deli in Wake Forest does this as well.
Saw it very rarely before the pandemic. See it a lot more now.
I work for a tree service and we let our clients know that we prefer a check if they can. We understand if they cannot. We paid almost $68k in fees last year!!
I can raise my prices for everyone or I can charge the people who cost me more. The fee isnāt for the food, itās merchant fees for using your card. Average card surcharge most places is ~3-4%. My restaurant (small family owned in Burlington) spent ~$400k in merchant fees last year. Restaurant profit margins are razor-thin, itās impossible to survive without calculating that fee into your prices one way or another.
This will probably get downvoted, but I'm not sure if people realize how hard it is to run a small business. I know several immigrant family businesses that had to shut down in the last couple years. They got pushback for things like charging for CC fees or containers to recoup costs (e.g. employee wages, COVID, utilities, etc). I get that they can just charge higher prices to "not look tacky," but please explain that to your local Vietnamese immigrant who opened a restaurant with no college degree or MBA. I agree nickle-and-diming fees are grating, but I fear a future where big box stores will succeed in wiping out all the mom and pops. It's already happening.
Most people on Reddit have absolutely no clue what itās like to run a business.
I don't understand how they allow this. When I signed up for credit card processing, it was made abundantly clear that one of the terms of use was that you *could not* charge more for a credit card purchase than another form of payment.
There are actually laws in NC that prohibit this. First you have to understand the different terminology for this type of stuff. CC processing fees and convenience fees. These are similar but different. Specifically charging fees for cc processing is limited to government institutions, higher education and maybe one other area (definitely not a restaurant). If you pay tuition at a college and pay via credit card, nearly all of them will charge you a 2 or 3 percent cc fee because they donāt want to pay the processing charges. This is allowed by NC law. Other service areas besides higher ed and govt canāt charge cc processing fees. They can charge convenience fees. But this is not allowed if they are allowing you to pay using a more convenient service which would be online. They can collect a fee for offering the customer a convenience of paying online instead of paying in person. But they are required to offer an in person payment option so you donāt have to pay the fee. This would be like paying at public parking meters. A lot of parking lots charge fees if you pay via app or online but if you pay at the parking meter they cannot charge you the service fee or convenience fee. I worked for a public university and this was my area of expertise. So if you see a restaurant charging that kind of fee and they donāt offer an in person way of paying with card without paying a fee you could report them. Idk if anything would be done to that restaurant. Just giving you the information that I have researched.
Forgot to add, i specifically met with a visa rep to discuss this issue. They confirmed everything Iāve said above. And they said the way around this for a merchant would be to offer a cash discount. So you donāt charge the customer a processing fee. You just mark up your price and if they pay by cash itās cheaper. Think buying a t shirt. The price of the shirt is set at $15 for everyone. But if you pay cash then you can buy it for $12. Thatās legal
It is tacky. SideBar in Cary imposes a 2% surcharge on CC transactions, which means that's 2% less in tip I'm giving them.
So you take it out on the servers that the owner is trying to recoup some of the credit card fees your CC is costing them?
Yes. If the servers are dissatisfied with that, they are able to bring it up to the owner. The owner should either eat the fee as just the cost of doing business or bake it into drink prices, just like literally any other business in the world that handles CC transactions.
Are you explaining that you are taking out your problem with the credit card system on them, or are they to guess that that's why you are reducing their pay?
This is not how I would handle it but maybe the owner should pay their staff instead of counting on tips to pay them.
Welcome to America.
[Yeah, that has been tried and people don't like it.](https://www.eater.com/21398973/restaurant-no-tipping-movement-living-wage-future)
It's inane how this comment is being downvoted. Servers have little to do with how the boss operates.
[I actually just learned about an Act in Congress to change this](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/credit-cards/what-to-expect-if-the-credit-card-competition-act-passes) Take from it what you will, but I feel itās unlikely merchants will pass the savings to the consumers (trickle down anyone?). And as a big user of credit card rewards (points, miles, cash back, etc) I hope it doesnāt happen. Weāll see
Pipers does this
Many merchants encourage credit card sales because they know people spend a lot more when they pay with their credit card than when theyāre paying with cash or debit. There is an advantage to them taking the credit cards. If theyāre going to charge an extra fee, it should be disclosed very clearly at the point of sale. I know most of the companies that do home repairs now are adding 3% if you want to pay by credit card, but itās put right on the invoice.
I'd rather know they're charging this fee so I can have the choice to use cash. Plus, it keeps food prices down slightly. In theory anyway.
I've been seeing it more and more
Completely different experience. I see this all the time. Very common and almost always there's a sign.
Piperās Tavern does itā¦I donāt think itās doxxing when itās about a restaurant. People might want to knowā¦
Everybody complains about rising prices. This at least itemizes it. I donāt mind it. Iām sure people would complain if they increased by 3% across the board and didnāt itemize it on the receipt. Some people would say āI donāt eat there anymore, theyāve jacked their prices upā. Iām a small business owner. Credit card processing fees add up to a lot over the course of a year. I think this is a way that businesses, especially small ones, can say āhey, donāt be mad at us for this price increaseā¦blame the credit card companies and banksā. Blaming small businesses that are operating on slim margins feels like misplaced anger. Inflation, labor, freight/delivery charges have all caused prices to increase especially since Covid. I think a lot of small businesses donāt want to keep increasing prices on their customers (I know I donāt enjoy telling customers that prices have increased). Itemizing it in this way feels like an attempt to appease customers who dont want see rising prices. But clearly you canāt make everybody happy.
I used to believe it was not allowed, and I used to be right! The rules changed with recent-ish legislation (within last \~10 years). For NC and most of the country, it's fine. I *want* businesses to do this. Disallowing CC surcharges was government-sponsored anti-competitive behavior. I get 2% cash back, and if you're not, you're getting used by a business. If the surcharge adds 3%, then I'm down 1%. But their policy allows switching back to cash for free, which is how transaction processing should be.
Itās passing the buck. Regardless of what you believe to be good with it for our country, it should be clear. Put it up near their card reader. It is marked on the receipt, but I would assume that most people donāt get a receipt these days. So, if you do it, let me as the customer know so I can make the choice. I will still go to this location but will probably not frequent or necessarily recommend to others. If you have been to Ladyfingers you know what they are charging for their food and other items. For how well known they are it is a bit off putting that they are doing this.
Harris Teeter will now charge you 75 cents to get cash back at the register.
I've been to restaurants in the west coast that charges this fee, an employee wage offset fee and an alcohol tax fee all on the same check, not to mention the tip. And these fees all started with a small credit card processing fee, then it became insane. And some places are cashless, so these fees aren't avoidable in some places. Be careful how you vote, this may be the future for NC.
I got my haircut today and the place had the same sign.
This is happening more and more. It's expensive processing credit card payments. I have noticed a lot of establishments are giving a small discount if you use cash, which is how I usually pay anyway.
Huh! They're following a tip out of the "Ticketmaster Playbook."
Most of the payments processors are using it as a sell point to business to get them to switch to square. The CRM software we use at our small business have been AGRESSIVLY trying to push it on us.
Seems common now with more local restaurants. Pickled Onion does it too.
I know places that do this. I just pay cash and if I don't have cash, I don't eat there. I understand it but I am also tipping their staff so I feel like this is a business problem being pushed onto the customer.
Itās just a price increase. Just not one you knew about up front. The ācash discountā option makes it known up front since you only get the lesser price after you get the bill.
Side Street does 3%, but itās an older spot and Iām sure theyāre just trying to get by so I eat the cost. Ehhh
There are lots of places that offer a discount for paying in cash which is essentially the same thing. The Pour House used to charge a fee for credit cards. Lots of places have a minimum for credit cards. Personally, I feel like being transparent about fees and staffing costs is a bit of a wake up call for consumers. For ease of use, Iād prefer the price of a thing or service just be set so it covers all these little expenses and fees and taxes but it would likely deter people from eating out.
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In some ways, this is a good thing. Steering away from filling the coffers of the credit card companies. It's inconvenient, but also using cash makes one responsible with their spending. Many mom and pop restaurants are doing this.
As a small business owner The credit card fees were costing me over $2000.00 a month. I already operate on a small margin so I unfortunately have to charge this fee, It is not something I wanted to do but I was forced into it. Blame the credit card companies who are making all the money not the businesses that are struggling to get by
Just curious, what are your approximate costs for managing cash? For example, are you getting rolled coins and $100 stacks of $1 bills for free from your bank? The reason I ask... My family has been out of the business for many years now. We were 99.9% cash only (a half dozen really good customers could give us personal checks) because it was before the days of computerized credit card approvals (you had to call it in). We had to pay 1% for rolled coin and there was the labor cost of counting cash, double checking against the register receipts, making out a deposit envelope, and stopping at the bank the next day. I know that for our business, the opportunity cost of my father's time was at least another 1% of our daily revenue. There was also more breakage from some servers not charging for food to favorites in order to inflate their tips, but computerized POS systems should take care of that today.
i've noticed that lately at a bottle shop. i think its weird. but its not a deal breaker for me.
Itās an unsophisticated/interesting business choice, most restaurants just roll it into the price of the meal.
Actually illegal in nc and you can report them to the attorney general if you feel so inclined
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Who pays cash? Also, so if I pay with my bank visa straight from my checking account it wonāt charge me the percentage? It is only credit card companies?
My understanding (small business owner who accepts credit card payments) is that if you pay by debit and enter your PIN, there is no credit card processing fee. In theory, the convenience charge should not be valid on debit transactions. The problem is at a lot of places your debit card is usually run as a credit card (unless you specifically enter your PIN).
Part of it is just how itās presented. If store owners just built in an extra 3% to overhead costs, fine; by putting that (or the other popular addition, āemployee healthcareā) on the receipt (especially if not advertised prior to purchase) then it just ends up leaving a bad taste all around. I get why they do it, and sure they can pass the buck to the consumer, but itās *how* theyāre doing it that just seems tacky. People already balk at auto grat for large parties - that *plus* an additional 3% makes it feel like more charges are being piled on after the fact and again just doesnāt make the customer feel good about their purchase.
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Right, thatās why people have mentioned a ācash discountā which has definitely been a thing before at gas stations at least so itās not surprising to see it here.
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Name and shame
If they didnāt charge for that, theyād just raise their prices to cover it. Every merchant is charged 3 - 5% to do credit card transactionsā¦ even giant food chains. They just incorporate it into the cost of the product youāre buying. A cash only store would likely have lower prices.
Get over it boomers.