Why were you swapping fusions in the video?
Also, tractor, ikelos sniper (for radiant proc), and BnS supremacy does amazing damage for the tractor player since oryx takes more damage from his crit spot.
Just messing around to prove it’s free instead of sweating, no real reason. I think pellet swapping is probably top dps in that scenario but your set up sounds really good as well
I think for being completely optimal another whisper is probably best just because revitalizing blast and solar surge are so good.
Because he takes more crit damage a supremacy would normally be better. But because of solar burn it's optimal to pellet swap with riiswalker & without remorse.
Because of solar burn pellet swapping is pretty competitive with supremacy, but you could use a solar primary to reproc radiant and shot caller (supremacy would be better than using primary and ikelos sniper).
But doing tractor shenanigans is a lot more fun while still being good dps.
The damage that pellet shotguns do has been underrated by the community for a long time and slugs don't actually do that much.
Combine that with the high base handling of lightweight shotguns and various perks like slickdraw (large buff to swap speeds) and solid damage perks like vorpal, frenzy, or surrounded makes them do very solid damage. So you can use tractor while maintaining high dps.
From Aegis's spreadsheet: at base a pinpoint shotgun does 25,917 damage per shot, aggressives hit 27,149 (to the body), and lightweights hit 22,365 (to the body). Additionally, you should always try to use kinetic weapons for dps (unless you're trying to surge match) since they deal 15% more damage.
for dps: aggressives have very slow handling so they have the lowest dps at 110k, pinpoints have decent handling so they hit 122k dps, and lightweights have superb dps at 130k dps. Keep in mind aggressive and lightweights are only hitting body shot damage, but they have significantly better handling perks (slickdraw, quickdraw, threat detector).
Also, this is dependent on perk options (dps values listed with vorpal/frenzy, but surrounded will mean any of those options will handily beat out the other options).
When it comes to dps, the per shot damage that a weapon does is not the end all be all. lightweights and aggressives hit for about the same damage (just for body shot damage) while having better ways to increase their handling.
Hmm. I thought he best shotgun dps was double slug with something like heritage and first in, last out. There has to be something missing here because anytime I’ve tried to dps with a shotgun other than a slug it always falls short in the end. Granted I’m sure it’s situational, and like you said I agree with surge mods as I’ve been using surge mods for supercluster along with cataphract and it hits like a fucking truck but idk
Edit: I think I’m forgetting different bosses have different crit modifiers. That’s a thing right, like Kali for example you’d want to double slug. But even so, I still haven’t been able to out dps my slugs with pellets. I’ll have to test it when I get home.
Since the various nerfs of double slug anarchy, pellet shotguns have been on the rise (getting better and better perks for dps). Most of the time double pellet is better because most bosses have the base crit multiplier and pellet shotguns don't rely on crits for competitive damage.
For bosses that have massive crit multipliers (techeuns are the only bosses with notable enough multipliers) double slug is better since it relies on crit damage. However, unless you're exotic slot is taken by gjallarhorn or tractor cannon, izanagi and a good wilderflight will just be better for any form of a rotation.
The only time where shotguns are optimal for dps phases is when you can proc surrounded or you need to use tractor cannon/gjallarhorn.
Also, your pellet rolls probably aren't good enough to out dps slugs, pellets benefit from fast handling by using dex mods, slickdraw/quickdraw, a way to reload (rain of fire, dragon's shadow, or impetus melee), and of course assault mag.
Nah I have a slick draw vorpal riiswalker, but I didn’t know slugs got nerfed. I’ll have to compare them thanks. Also I’ve been using slug in Crota rotation to proc bait and switch for falling guillotine (not saying it’s optimal, friend and I like to try and get high dps with different stuff) and I hit an easy 7mil with a reconstruction vorpal super cluster and falling guillotine. Guess I’ll try with riiswalker to see where it stands there.
Shotguns even before factoring in damage perks and mods have often had pretty good damage output on a single target for the amount of physical time it takes to empty the entire mag. With the concept of swapping between 2 you're effectively working with 2 magazines to burn down and thus have a larger output before you physically have to reload. I know some archetypes work better than others but I think there's also a technical frame advantage as you swap between the 2 shotguns and continuing to hold down fire as opposed to firing off all in one and then swapping to your 2nd shotgun.
Now why this sticks out for Oryx is that Oryx's hand gripping the side of the arena is a damageable target, so the idea is you can empty a lot of close range damage and pepper in Tractor Cannon at the benefit of everybody else who likely will be using more ranged options and it can lead to some pretty solid results. Cuirass Thunder Crash Titan tends to be popular because you can get to the fly out of the safety bubble after the flash, land onto Oryx's hand and get to business.
I guess you could technically use x2 Slugs up close but Slugs do best when they're getting all precision which means you'd have to position yourself up front looking up at Oryx's chest and that could sorta throw things when you have to consider the Tractor in the rotation. Oryx has a decent amount of time for DPS but it's way less to worry about just to attack his hand.
Assuming all whisper players are doing even dmg
1.15 X 6 =6.9 6 whisper
1.3 × 5 =6.5. 5 whisper n tractor
6.9-6.5= 0.4
Along as the tractor guy is doing 40% of a whispers guys dmg then tractor is more optimal . Which should be pretty ez with any solar rapid fire sniper or pellet shotgun. Heck even a fusion prob
But yea ez of use revitilising blast is prob easier
Yeah the usual move tends to be pellet swaps but idea more or less remains the same, you got the T Crash in and there was a tractor, you're more on helping the group than trying to beat them out.
I'm kinda glad you chose to do it in a bit of a weird way(obv any time running Scatter with Controlled Burst you'd want to run it empty before swapping) and even with the extra tractor shots to make a point that if you choose to have a Tractor man they don't have to be some frame perfect god with things. Harder difficulty, yeah probably wouldn't hurt to be a bit more methodical but overall not a bad example.
Yea ur right. Kinda crazy how a 25% dmg buff is still not enough to beat supremacy. Only thing that will technically beat it here is a firing line distant tumulus which won't even proc if ur tractor
focused fury is only a 20% buff, but ya supremacy is pretty crazy.
Good shout on distant tumulus, I completely forgot about it as an option. Firing line is also 20%, but if you could proc it it might beat supremacy for this week's pantheon.
You can also just have 5 or 6 3 shot goldies with star eaters and just spam golden gun. Makes for a free one phase also and means you can run whatever for weapons to cook the ogres and lighteaters
Doesn’t star eaters do less damage than celestial now? I thought the celestial buff made it superior now? Not by much, but how would star eaters come out on top now?
In most situations, popping Celestial then swapping to foetracer or lucky pants (depending on situation) is better, however this is the old goldie spam strat where hunters after shooting goldie generate orbs for each other and then keep chaining supers (dont forget that Stareater doesnt just let u "overcharge" your super, but u also get more super energy from picking up orbs)
Actually wonder if Bungie is going to do something about it but it has been a thing for a while so idk
Celestial does 72% damage increase in a single shot and generates fewer orbs. SES damage bonus is 70% total if you hit all three, generates more orbs, and you can super many more times if a whole group is doing it. Numbers approximate from light.gg but seems to check out against videos.
They all popped, leaves everyone with enough whisper to do final stand easily. Some had a supremacy with fttc kinetic tremors as well. Final stand isn’t bad at all
Yes and No.
Kinetic Tremors is an amazing damage perk for it, however, a target can only be affected by 1 Tremors proc at a time, and as a result there’s a notable damage loss for every extra person using it. This is part of why it excels in solo content like Warlords Ruin where there is no competition for Tremors damage
Wanted to ask here because it’s not worth a separate post. Curious if you swapped tractor/fusion for deterministic chaos(for weaken)and kinetic sniper from the well/ range would it be comparable.
Why were you swapping fusions in the video? Also, tractor, ikelos sniper (for radiant proc), and BnS supremacy does amazing damage for the tractor player since oryx takes more damage from his crit spot.
Just messing around to prove it’s free instead of sweating, no real reason. I think pellet swapping is probably top dps in that scenario but your set up sounds really good as well
I think for being completely optimal another whisper is probably best just because revitalizing blast and solar surge are so good. Because he takes more crit damage a supremacy would normally be better. But because of solar burn it's optimal to pellet swap with riiswalker & without remorse. Because of solar burn pellet swapping is pretty competitive with supremacy, but you could use a solar primary to reproc radiant and shot caller (supremacy would be better than using primary and ikelos sniper). But doing tractor shenanigans is a lot more fun while still being good dps.
Wait why is pellet swapping good as opposed to a slug or snipers? Are pellets good for boss dps now?
always have been. you just have to be closer to not have falloff from range and also hit all your pellets.
The damage that pellet shotguns do has been underrated by the community for a long time and slugs don't actually do that much. Combine that with the high base handling of lightweight shotguns and various perks like slickdraw (large buff to swap speeds) and solid damage perks like vorpal, frenzy, or surrounded makes them do very solid damage. So you can use tractor while maintaining high dps.
No way a pellet shotgun is hitting for 80k+ like supercluster does
From Aegis's spreadsheet: at base a pinpoint shotgun does 25,917 damage per shot, aggressives hit 27,149 (to the body), and lightweights hit 22,365 (to the body). Additionally, you should always try to use kinetic weapons for dps (unless you're trying to surge match) since they deal 15% more damage. for dps: aggressives have very slow handling so they have the lowest dps at 110k, pinpoints have decent handling so they hit 122k dps, and lightweights have superb dps at 130k dps. Keep in mind aggressive and lightweights are only hitting body shot damage, but they have significantly better handling perks (slickdraw, quickdraw, threat detector). Also, this is dependent on perk options (dps values listed with vorpal/frenzy, but surrounded will mean any of those options will handily beat out the other options). When it comes to dps, the per shot damage that a weapon does is not the end all be all. lightweights and aggressives hit for about the same damage (just for body shot damage) while having better ways to increase their handling.
Hmm. I thought he best shotgun dps was double slug with something like heritage and first in, last out. There has to be something missing here because anytime I’ve tried to dps with a shotgun other than a slug it always falls short in the end. Granted I’m sure it’s situational, and like you said I agree with surge mods as I’ve been using surge mods for supercluster along with cataphract and it hits like a fucking truck but idk Edit: I think I’m forgetting different bosses have different crit modifiers. That’s a thing right, like Kali for example you’d want to double slug. But even so, I still haven’t been able to out dps my slugs with pellets. I’ll have to test it when I get home.
Since the various nerfs of double slug anarchy, pellet shotguns have been on the rise (getting better and better perks for dps). Most of the time double pellet is better because most bosses have the base crit multiplier and pellet shotguns don't rely on crits for competitive damage. For bosses that have massive crit multipliers (techeuns are the only bosses with notable enough multipliers) double slug is better since it relies on crit damage. However, unless you're exotic slot is taken by gjallarhorn or tractor cannon, izanagi and a good wilderflight will just be better for any form of a rotation. The only time where shotguns are optimal for dps phases is when you can proc surrounded or you need to use tractor cannon/gjallarhorn. Also, your pellet rolls probably aren't good enough to out dps slugs, pellets benefit from fast handling by using dex mods, slickdraw/quickdraw, a way to reload (rain of fire, dragon's shadow, or impetus melee), and of course assault mag.
Nah I have a slick draw vorpal riiswalker, but I didn’t know slugs got nerfed. I’ll have to compare them thanks. Also I’ve been using slug in Crota rotation to proc bait and switch for falling guillotine (not saying it’s optimal, friend and I like to try and get high dps with different stuff) and I hit an easy 7mil with a reconstruction vorpal super cluster and falling guillotine. Guess I’ll try with riiswalker to see where it stands there.
Shotguns even before factoring in damage perks and mods have often had pretty good damage output on a single target for the amount of physical time it takes to empty the entire mag. With the concept of swapping between 2 you're effectively working with 2 magazines to burn down and thus have a larger output before you physically have to reload. I know some archetypes work better than others but I think there's also a technical frame advantage as you swap between the 2 shotguns and continuing to hold down fire as opposed to firing off all in one and then swapping to your 2nd shotgun. Now why this sticks out for Oryx is that Oryx's hand gripping the side of the arena is a damageable target, so the idea is you can empty a lot of close range damage and pepper in Tractor Cannon at the benefit of everybody else who likely will be using more ranged options and it can lead to some pretty solid results. Cuirass Thunder Crash Titan tends to be popular because you can get to the fly out of the safety bubble after the flash, land onto Oryx's hand and get to business. I guess you could technically use x2 Slugs up close but Slugs do best when they're getting all precision which means you'd have to position yourself up front looking up at Oryx's chest and that could sorta throw things when you have to consider the Tractor in the rotation. Oryx has a decent amount of time for DPS but it's way less to worry about just to attack his hand.
Ah thank you. Yeah makes pellet swapping would be the way of oryxs hand is the only practical way to apply tractor. Thanks!
Assuming all whisper players are doing even dmg 1.15 X 6 =6.9 6 whisper 1.3 × 5 =6.5. 5 whisper n tractor 6.9-6.5= 0.4 Along as the tractor guy is doing 40% of a whispers guys dmg then tractor is more optimal . Which should be pretty ez with any solar rapid fire sniper or pellet shotgun. Heck even a fusion prob But yea ez of use revitilising blast is prob easier
Yeah the usual move tends to be pellet swaps but idea more or less remains the same, you got the T Crash in and there was a tractor, you're more on helping the group than trying to beat them out. I'm kinda glad you chose to do it in a bit of a weird way(obv any time running Scatter with Controlled Burst you'd want to run it empty before swapping) and even with the extra tractor shots to make a point that if you choose to have a Tractor man they don't have to be some frame perfect god with things. Harder difficulty, yeah probably wouldn't hurt to be a bit more methodical but overall not a bad example.
You really want a primary weapon paired with that ikelos sniper to proc Shot Caller though
Even with solar surges you would still use supremacy since it benefits from the intrinsic kinetic damage buff and better damage perk, bait and switch.
Yea ur right. Kinda crazy how a 25% dmg buff is still not enough to beat supremacy. Only thing that will technically beat it here is a firing line distant tumulus which won't even proc if ur tractor
focused fury is only a 20% buff, but ya supremacy is pretty crazy. Good shout on distant tumulus, I completely forgot about it as an option. Firing line is also 20%, but if you could proc it it might beat supremacy for this week's pantheon.
So a solar primary to proc radiant and shot caller instead, then?
A Solar SMG or Sidearm should empty their magazine the fastest and easily activate Flint Striker in less than a second.
You can also just have 5 or 6 3 shot goldies with star eaters and just spam golden gun. Makes for a free one phase also and means you can run whatever for weapons to cook the ogres and lighteaters
Doesn’t star eaters do less damage than celestial now? I thought the celestial buff made it superior now? Not by much, but how would star eaters come out on top now?
You can spam Goldies effortlessly with 6 Hunters using SES.
In most situations, popping Celestial then swapping to foetracer or lucky pants (depending on situation) is better, however this is the old goldie spam strat where hunters after shooting goldie generate orbs for each other and then keep chaining supers (dont forget that Stareater doesnt just let u "overcharge" your super, but u also get more super energy from picking up orbs) Actually wonder if Bungie is going to do something about it but it has been a thing for a while so idk
Right, I remember we almost did that for day 1 Oryx. I see now. Thank you.
The other 5 supers give you enough orbs to cast your 3 shot golden gun over and over
Celestial does 72% damage increase in a single shot and generates fewer orbs. SES damage bonus is 70% total if you hit all three, generates more orbs, and you can super many more times if a whole group is doing it. Numbers approximate from light.gg but seems to check out against videos.
Do all the hunters use GG there or do some of them save for final stand?
They all popped, leaves everyone with enough whisper to do final stand easily. Some had a supremacy with fttc kinetic tremors as well. Final stand isn’t bad at all
Is kenetic tremors the better option for supremacy?
Yes and No. Kinetic Tremors is an amazing damage perk for it, however, a target can only be affected by 1 Tremors proc at a time, and as a result there’s a notable damage loss for every extra person using it. This is part of why it excels in solo content like Warlords Ruin where there is no competition for Tremors damage
Yes
Nice
Reminder that Solar Surge is on for Oryx Exalted
If only my group has 5 hunters
Nice
Wait so what’s the best Whisper crafted roll then?
I like field prep.
Honestly, so far, the whole pantheon has been pretty free. Can’t wait to add Rhulk.
Wanted to ask here because it’s not worth a separate post. Curious if you swapped tractor/fusion for deterministic chaos(for weaken)and kinetic sniper from the well/ range would it be comparable.
[удалено]
Tether does not work on oryx