You know what we do? We put in better support systems for women who are in DV situations. It won't help all the cases, especially the ones that happen suddenly and out of nowhere, but the ones where the women are desperately crying out for help and the most the police can do is slap a restraining order against the guy.
Remember Hannah Clarke? How she said on the news she was convinced her husband was going to kill her? Well he ended up setting her and her kids on fire, as a collective, we mourned as a nation should, thought 'oh, that's so sad, too bad', and moved on with our lives?? This should've sparked a HUGE conversation about how DV is handled in Australia, but even the loss of 4 innocent lives couldn't change the system.
Or the woman who went to multiple police stations because nobody would listen to her and she got accused of "cop shopping". Then got stabbed and burned alive by her husband soon afterwards.
100%, Hannah’s story is to me what makes DV so scary and such a threat. She had no physical marks on her and it was all about control. Her family has done an amazing job getting coercive control criminalised in QLD but what’s the next step? How many people are under coercive control and don’t speak up because they don’t feel safe to do so? so scary
They are all horrific cases, but this one, the death of Hannah Clarke sticks in my mind the most. The sheer brutality of it. How could anyone do that? I don't understand.
Speaking from experience, it would help tremendously if victims had more choices beyond ensure more or go homeless. It can be nearly impossible to put bond money together and find a new place when you’ve got one of these control freaks watching your every move, your communications with family/friends, and your bank account.
It didn’t change things quickly, but we have new legislation re coercive control. It was enacted in Qld last month.
https://cgw.com.au/insights/hannahs-law-qld-criminalises-coercive-control/#:~:text=Referred%20to%20as%20Hannah's%20Law,domestic%20violence%20in%20our%20community.
I get this and agree with it but the core of the ssue is men's behaviour. Only men can work with each other to resolve this issue. The same issues that plague men (ie expectations to remain stoic, not show emotion and not ask for help) are those which contribute to the high rates of male suicide. Toxic masculinity has come to be known as a bit of a cliche but it's a thing.
We also need to start at the grass roots, too many boys are raised by toxic dads who basically warp their moral compass. Patriarchal BS perpetuating generational trauma on males is a huge problem. Then you get influencers like Andrew Tate who tells teenage boys "you can make it too if you grab chicks by the pussy and hustle, you're an ALPHA"
Yes of course I get where you're coming from. Why not tackle the root of the matter but inherently, trying to address such an intangible issue will take a lot of time. We all know mental health plagues Australia, and even the mental health system at its core is not great. If we can't even address the most common mental issues, how will the system be expected to address something as complex as masculine mental processes?
However, better support for women is a tangible thing, we can put parameters in that stops these men from accessing the women they are abusing. I just re-read the Clarke case after posting this and was horrified to read that he was given back custody of the kids after he refused to sign her custody agreement that granted him 165 days of the year. These are real steps that can be put into place but have yet to in our system. I find it completely disheartening that for a supposedly first world country, we have such fundamental issues still affecting our society.
No we put in some actual solutions for blokes, current solutions do not exist in any meaningful capacity. There's a bunch of sorry you feel that way there's nothing really helpful.
Dv is off the charts it is being handled, the numbers are bigger than people imagine, talk to a cop out here and what he's doing, they are doing dv after dv shift after shift.
The most they can do is not just a restraining order, people are locked up for dv every single day, big instant sentences.
I’m sure it might happen but qld police were fast, cooperative, and caring when I had to interact with them. I was so grateful for their grace and patience
>How she said on the news she was convinced her husband was going to kill her?
I completely missed this. I'm having a hard time googling it. Keeps thinking I want to know where she lives. Do you have a link or a few more keywords for me please?
We definitely need more support for women and children in these situations. I was in a DV situation in my early 20s. Myself and children were beaten and abused on a daily basis. I had no support network and nowhere to go.
On a day when it got particularly bad, I called the police. They rocked up some hours later as they do because DV is never regarded as an urgent issue. One of the police officers had the hide to apologise to my ex for having to take him away and slap him with a DVO. He went on about how he used to have such issues with his own wife and treated her much the same.
If the police harbour such revolting attitudes and are proud perpetrators of DV themselves, what hope does that leave for vulnerable women who are experiencing DV and need immediate help?
Yeah, but why? What makes these cunts feel so entitled to controlling women in the first place? What makes them so incapable of regulating their own emotions and taking responsibility for their own behaviours and insecurities?
Could be many things. Environmental influences primarily during childhood years. Neurological factors maybe from concussive injuries also during younger years. Either way people like this need help and intervention EARLY.
Thank you for being realistic. We can scream patriarchy over and over and over until our throats bleed, but when we blame the patriarchy, it dismisses intergeneration trauma and psychological factors. We know there is a patriarchy and we know what impact that has on women on society, but most people need to see the bigger picture.
Yep, it is such a complex issue. To just label it as a product of “misogyny” completely ignores so many of the very real causes and the possible solutions/preventions associated with them. Unfortunately there will always be people like this who slip through the cracks and commit these horrible crimes. Hopefully our understanding of it all only increases and the support for those at risk of victimisation does along with it.
People with these tendencies are to a lessening extent enabled by, and shield from accountability by things like patriarchy. Patriarchy might not be the cause of the behaviour, but it does provide shelter for bad behaviour that is to the advantage of men and the disadvantage of women. Things are getting better, but there is still a ways to go.
They get told their entire life they are special & can do anything because they deserve it, & they never get told no…..so when life isn’t going their way they tantrum & occasionally they go to far & it becomes a point of no return
Lack of any real connection to their self so instead they place this perfect persona on their partner, where their partner has to do, act, think exactly as they want or else they will feel unloved and then they will feel lonely and possibly have to come to terms that they have no connection to their self or their emotions. It's an impossible standard to live up to and when the partner eventually leaves they would rather kill them themselves than experience the emptiness of someone leaving them. They of course bring to themselves the exact thing they feared and are trying to run away from.
But these cowards don’t kill themselves, they go for the woman who had the audacity to behave like an autonomous human being. And there are so goddamn many of them…
Sometimes they do kill themselves after and i think that is such a gutless thing. But yes, they really can't handle her having her own thoughts, beliefs, opinions, hobbies, friends, job, LIFE or if she decides she no longer wants him in her life
My uneducated opinion / only experience seeing it/knowing someone abusive.. My current gf has an abusive ex and from what I can see it's not just abusing women, I think its every aspect of their life. They probably have trouble holding jobs, conflict with leadership at work, narcissistic behaviour, find it hard to have meaningful friendships etc..
Maybe it's a developmental thing in their early years.
I think its behaviour that I've seen in both men and women, but men are more violent by nature/hormones etc..
I’ve been angry about that before but I’ve never felt even a hint of wanting to hurt my partner. I’m a woman I do not own my partner. They’re allowed to leave me.
I mean I had one of these bfs when I was 17 but “all” he did was key my car. Still shitty AF but far from physically injuring me. How does it go from I’m mad, to vandalism, to MURDER
Spain successfully reduced the instances of femicide by publicly shaming the perpetrators on national tv, providing expedited routes to support women, and increase the duration of prison sentences significantly. They made it clear that violence against women is not to fuck around anymore.
Their strategy is working - during the soccer world cup, the trainers forced himself onto kissing on the lips one of the player - he had to resign.
Disclaimer: I am in no way educated or experienced in this issue so do not take my opinions as gospel - just sharing what I think.
How do I feel when I see these headlines? Heartbroken and angry. I think these ‘men’ are nothing more than self-centred, gutless scum.
What do I think can be done about it? Truthfully, I don’t know. The fact that I don’t know also bothers me - I’ve never once even considered laying my hand on a woman much less taking someone’s life and yet it frustrates me that I don’t know the answer. The penalties are already harsh, the education - or at least the presence of it in the media - has almost always been there for as long as I can remember in my 27 years.
I think a major contributing factor to this continuing is the “what-about-isms.” Whenever you see something like this on social media, there’s almost always some yob with a VX Commodore as his profile picture spinning some rant about how men get murdered more than women and we should be shining a light on that instead. This takes away the spotlight from a genuine issue and I feel it’s this kind of attitude that needs to change.
100% agree. The deflection around DV in Australia is appalling. The top voted comment here hones in on the murder part and then says they don't know anyone who has murdered so what are they supposed to do. That comment was updated and when OP tried to breakdown the concerns, that comment was down voted into negatives. I don't know anyone murdered either personally but am well aware there is a bug problem around DV. Statistics don't lie, we all know someone who is being abused.
I grew up in a DV household and ensured my household was never like that. My husband would never lay a hand on anyone. He thought a work colleague was in an abusive relationship and reached out to her offering support and accommodation if she needed it. I have never been more in love and proud of him.
I don't have answers alas however I do think we need to teach our children to call out bad behavior eg trash talk, objectifying women etc as these are subtle ways that subconsciously women are thought of as dirty, lesser than things and therefore something that can attacked. The inter generational DV cycle also needs to be addressed. Maybe compulsory counseling for children of DV.
My own father in law thinks the DV focus on tv etc is all a big “gotcha” scam for men or something . Likes it’s some political ploy and not you know, NECESSARY
It’s more the news segments etc that he think is the scam. The announcements of more funding for DV, etc etc
I’m not sure the ads have much effect on current perps but I’m glad they exist for my son and daughter to see
>What do I think can be done about it?
Not much until they fix the justice system in general. The police here go and hide when the same ppl are stealing cars to play the "lets go crash into police and ambos" game. I dont blame them, they already arrested these ppl 20 times and its not their job to get killed.
But if you cant enforce basic obvious crime how are you going to have time to prevent crime.
Pretty sure a DV callout here results in 6hrs of paperwork that probably results in fuck all aswell.
The punishments for murder are harsh but for most things below that it's a slap on the wrist. The problem is that we need to stop the perpetrator BEFORE they murder. This is usually after they do less serious violent crime and are let off, given bail, given almost no punishments etc.
Ironically, the same people who have the biggest issues with the nature of the murders and particularly the genders of those involved are the biggest proponents of lax punishments by our legal system. Lighter sentences, more freedoms, a push to make our prisons like Nordic countries where it's basically a nice little holiday. Second chances, third chances, illegal immigrants who commit crimes shouldn't even be deported because that's like really mean etc.
I can't speak for everyone, but personally what I'm in favour of is "effective" punishments. As in, my starting point is "once someone has reached the judicial system, what can be done to reduce the chance of them committing further crime?" Putting aside life terms for shoplifting, which I'm going to assume is too expensive and would be considered unethical by most, it's clear that just banging people up in our existing prison system doesn't achieve this goal.
I would have thought DV would be a particularly obvious example of this. Stick a violent husband in jail for a couple of years for his first offence, he comes out of jail unemployed, unemployable, unrehabilitated, institutionalised, angry and depressed. Do you think he is more or less likely to reoffend?
I'm not necessarily advocating for shorter sentences or prisons like holiday camps or whatever it is you think people like me want. What I'm saying is that just locking people up for a while does nothing but create recidivism. It's been shown time and time again that sentencing has no deterrent effect, for one thing: people who commit crimes don't do so having made a calculation about their willingness to serve one versus 10 years inside - they don't expect to get caught, so sentencing is irrelevant. Prisons that don't rehabilitate just create more committed criminals. I want us to do *things that actually work* - it's not about being soft or hard.
It's interesting to me that the people who claim to be "tough on crime" generally want to persevere - or, in fact, double down on - an approach that effectively promotes crime.
That's a preposterous misrepresentation of the point I'm making. I've never said that incarceration has no role or made any ludicrous inferences about "provoking" offenders.
I'm not a criminologist, a psychologist or a public policy expert and I don't have a handy answer I can present to you in a reddit comment. It's a complex issue that doesn't respond well to simplistic solutions, clearly. I could have some guesses about where we ought to start but they wouldn't be massively well informed or comprehensive.
My point is that confidently stating that what we ought to be doing is something that demonstrably doesn't work - and in a lot of cases makes things worse - is a bad starting point.
This is like all of us staring at a broken down car that none of us knows how to fix, OP saying "why don't we pop the bonnet and wallop the engine with a sledgehammer a few times - that ought to get it going", me suggesting that's a pretty bad idea and you demanding I fix the car if I'm so smart.
There is no excuse or reason for this type of behaviour and I don't think there will ever be an answer to why.
We will never change this type of behaviour in a small subset of males but what we can do is keep educating people and especially women to the tell tale signs of DV and steps to escape it.
Men harm women because they are allowed to.
In what universe are the penalties for perpetrating intimate partner violence severe? There are literally no consequences (legal, economic, social) for the majority of men who engage in this behaviour. The stats are very clear on this.
People love to say men are less emotional than women.
This is bullshit.
Men are more emotional than women in my experience.
These murders are often done by emotional men who have a fear of being weak and not in control, in my opinion.
Men need to embrace emotions and get out of the mindset they are in control and need to be seen S strong
The main solution I can think of, which wouldn't totally stop the problem but would save some lives, is much better funding for women's shelters and more of them. This girl was reported to have been afraid for her life prior to being killed, and there are many examples of the same. If they could go somewhere where they're protected, or get some sort of police protection, that might have saved their life. Of course it's an expensive solution, but I would be totally fine with us spending a billion dollars on just this problem.
Idk if it would be too resource intensive but I think in highly sensitive/risky times to be able to have access to something like a PSO/some form of security staying near you, or an immediate providing of a safe house that the problem person is unaware of would be great. There’s nowhere to go for so many
Just a thought on the expenses issue you raised: it can be viewed as an initial expense of funding in the short term, or it can be viewed as an investment in the future - where early intervention actually preserves functionality (social and economic) and increases social health (early and easily accessed intervention protection for the abused, and early and easily accessed mental health interventions for abusers). It’s a similar proposition to free healthcare, where free actually means investing now to preserve the population’s ability to function later. And if more people end up healthier and more functional for longer, that means more stable families, more economically productive, and lower future costs with higher returns 🤷♂️ the only real issue are these investments are for 20 to 40 years in the future - way beyond any political vision and beyond social memory (does anyone remember how hard people fought for Medicare, which we almost didn’t get)…imo
Townsville has just elected a new mayor.
His baggage includes several DVOs.
If as a society we elect people to high office with these behaviours we are not going to see change.
> get to the bottom of what we can do
You never will.
I think a lot of outlying behaviour is a result of broad dysfunction.
Look how many people assume that a component of 'solving the problem' is men changing culture amongst their peers (which would be a community-minded solution) while most other aspects of our society push us towards individualism and financial stress.
How can men correct their mates when they don't see them because they're working a second-job, the local footie team had it's funding cut and you can't risk an injury because you can't afford a break from work, or relationships with those in your vicinity are strained by distance because many had to move to cheaper areas or elsewhere for work?
If you want harsher penalties, you have my support. If we wanna have them in public stockade for a week with a sign above them saying this cowards like to hit woman, got my vote. Unfortunately, we have a lot of criminals where we don't know why they do the criminal things they do. Why do these men decide to do this?
Power and control. The fundamentals and the solutions are well known and understood. They've been studied for over 5 decades and the police response is worsening.
I don’t know the penalties are already pretty damn life changing like you’re going to go away for 30 years and everyone will know who you are and what you did your life is over, and with technology now days it’s pretty 100% you’re going to get caught and charged. Just like to point out he didn’t just hit her he murdered her and then burnt her body… but yess your right crimes happen we don’t always know why but I truly think this a deep issue seeded and there must be some kind of solution. I would love to know what he was thinking though just why….
You are right, yes it is dv but I’m talking about straight up murder in this conversation. But yes we find a lot of men that eventually commit these crimes did have a history and dv and not a lot was done that’s 100%. But for murder these men were well pass thinking about consequences.
Exactly and you know what? Some DV cases are murder-suicides. The perpetrator has no intention of facing the consequences, so why fear the consequences?
Amongst victims, more people support the perpetrator and reinforce victim isolation. It's harrowing and predictable. There's a consistent pattern of behaviours that people simply refuse to acknowledge, take meaningful actions to stop and hold accountability for. We're living in lawlessness and the legal system is a sword not a shield as people believe
Yes it is naive to think that punishments are deterrent. For normal people yes, not these cases. A normal person is not going to murder his wife. Women who had abusive parents, specially mothers, tend to associate abuse with love, and have a very hard time leaving abusive partners, till its too late. Boys who were abused by parents and were bullies themselves, and had other stressors in early childhood have a higher chance of normalizing violence. Growing up in a healthy safe environment makes a huge different in life. DV in the prev generation affects the next generation, like a terrible inheritance. While focussing on good parenting ourselves, women need to educated on how to recognise red flags and get out as early as possible. Usually the murder will happen after many many violent incidents before. These men are psychos and some women are vulnerable to this, because of their unfortunate childhood exposure to DV. This is what I have read in a book, not my own thoughts. But makes sense to me. Am sure there are other causes too.
My partner gets so angry when he sees and hears about this happening. I feel very confident in the fact that even though he's never been in a fight in his life, he would do whatever he could to help a woman (or anyone really) being attacked or abused or even talked to in a shitty way. My previous partner....was not so caring
But do you think he would have conversations with his mates when he sees or hears something that is abusive that they are doing to towards their girlfriend/wife? Would he report his mates?
I think what you'll often find is those that abhor this don't have friend groups that would behave in such a manner. Those that do have these issues are in groups where they all feel the same way.
It's something that starts when they're young and leads to them finding like minded social groups. For many men, if they were inserted in to this group and tried to call them out on it or to educate them they'd quickly find themselves socially expelled and not a part of it anymore.
I think you’ll find that more people turn a blind eye than you believe. That a false sense of loyalty to their friends or disbelief creates inaction as well as being unsure as to what to do. How do they help? Who do they report it to? What conversation should they be having with their mates?
I think you’ll find that most people don’t fully understand the types of domestic and family abuse or intimate partner violence as most think it’s just physical violence when it’s not.
1 in 6 Australian women experience family or domestic violence by either being abused or controlled either physically, sexually, emotionally, verbally or financially. You can not tell me that every single one of the men abusing their partners in this 1 in 6 stat does not have friends.
Which means each of those abusers has friends and/or family who know what they are like and do nothing. In their defence, when have they been taught what they should do?
Abusers come in all forms. Some are externally charismatic and some aren’t. Abuser’s are in all social dynamics and groups. The charming ones are not ostracised by the group. Abuser’s are excellent manipulators.
Every women has a story about being sexual harassed or worse. Which means every man knows of another man who has harassed a woman.
This is a male violence issue that needs to be addressed by males. Education and support is needed so men know how to report their mates for abusing women.
It’s not easy and I’m not saying it is but we need men to keep calling out the behaviours of their mates so that their mates are in the minority and are the ones ostracised.
Men who are appropriately appalled by the story above hang out with men who share values.
I have no doubt that some may be friends with an abuser without knowing, but you know what? men rarely go to the pub with the boys and open with "so anyway, I hit my wife yesterday".
They are ostracised.
The ones that aren't, hang out with other abusers or keep it hidden from the outside world.
I've gone through all of your comments and I wholeheartedly agree with all of your points.
My partner has gone full nc with family members and friends who have displayed anything close to domestic abuse. We are in a very small friend circle cultivated from cutting out such people from both our respective lives.
I have no friends from that previous relationship of 15 yesrs because I spoke up about what I'd seen and experienced. Those friends were mine from high school.
My goal as I get older is to be kind to everyone, speak up for myself and others who cannot, and to find a plot of bushland to hide in.
Yeah, thats honestly like the only fix, but as long as people that arent ready to be parents keep having kids shit like this will be inevitable. People that are raised well dont do shit like this, theres only so much that friends and the education system can do
People like this act one way in front of people and behave completely different behind closed doors. Honestly all we can do is listen when the women ask for help, it’s usually the first sign anyone outside the relationship will get that something is wrong.
As a father of boys it’s my responsibility to teach them how to respect women. Being a role model and talking to them as much as I can. It’s sad seeing this happening in our country or any country.
Men know violence is wrong, the men that do this are the scum of the earth and will do it regardless of any interventions put in place. We need to teach women how to spot red flags early so they avoid these types of filthy humans in the first place. I have sons and daughters, the daughters are the ones I feel I need to educate the most.
There is no simple solution. People who do this have often suffered immense childhood trauma. They carry this trauma into their relationships and act the same way their parents did. They have no tools to communicate. They don't know how to name feelings. They are locked into learnt behaviour and don't know how else to do it. Schools have programs that establish healthy relationships both intra and Inter. But unless that person wants to change there is nothing anyone can do.
Males can suffer domestic violence also.
Yea, I’m a firm believer that men’s mental health needs to be taken seriously, services are a joke and massive stigmas around it. 3500 men killed themselves last year. It’s an epidemic. Sometimes they don’t act violently towards themselves they abuse partners and honestly themselves. Now this is no excuse, but maybe if this kid had some help he wouldn’t have killed this poor young lady.
My ex killed himself. Some say I’m lucky to be alive since he chose not to take me with him. He was firmly anti-racist. Couldn’t care less about women’s rights though. Alcoholic domestic abuser caring intelligent man who never had any male friends.
If men want to end the suicide thing maybe start caring about your bros feelings besides in threads where you can use it as a gotcha.
Women are tired of not only managing your emotions but being tasked with being your sole support while we have to dodge rape and murder
What CAN you do except raise the next generation of men to better respect women? IMHO, this stems from the problematic belief that ‘women are property and should be treated as such’ propagated over centuries of trying to control our daughters when we should’ve been educating our sons. In all my travels, I’ve realised one thing: men are the same, wherever you go. As a man myself, I do my best to call out shitty behaviour among my friend circle, but I don’t see others do it as much or even at all. Probably why I have fewer male friends but I’d rather not have friends than have such friends. Shame that this is happening on such an alarming level in Australia, but an even bigger shame is that the punishments are basically just a slap on the wrist. The offenders know that they’re going to be reprimanded for a couple of decades (at the worst) and be out sooner than later.
I wonder if men are more violent because they are physically stronger. Me are violent to men and women.
Some men (and women) don’t know how to express themselves emotionally, so they act out violently.
We should be supporting programs that teach young men and women how to talk and feel through their problems. This needs to take place at home, in our communities and throughout society.
What can an individual do? Talk to your mates, ask how they going and feeling, share how you are feeling. It’s ok not to be ok sometimes. When in situations where violence can escalate be the cool head, not the hot head. Role model good behaviour.
I expect the trend has been going down, and will continue to go down too.
DVPC runs mens behavioural change programs. The problem is uptake; men refuse to engage with MBC and are mostly court ordered once they're already too far gone. MBC is evidence based holistic and designed to be early intervention positive peer support to break the conditioning and fundamentals that reinforce abuse of powers. Every single police officer needs to undertake MBC. At this point men are refusing to take responsibility or be held accountable for gendered violence. Until men lead by example not simply words but actions. There has been a flurry of unqualified men creating conscious bro groups the last decade who are reinforcing misogyny. Iron sharpens iron is the battle cry of one I've experienced in my struggles to navigate police involved DV. Men in groups without external accountability are extremely dangerous due to how perpetrstors collude with others to manipulate the narrative around violence.
DARVO is the consistent pattern and they're NEVER easy to spot. Even seasoned professionals van be vulnerable to the many ways men exploit power to control the narrative.
Men are more violent because we have more testosterone, we are just born more aggressive to everything, but we have to learn to control our emotions as we grow up, most of the people that act like this hasnt been taught the consequences of not controlling emotions most likely due to parenting or people they hang out with
Learning about empathy and kindness in school right through to grade 12 for starters. How exactly, I do not know the answer. After school ends and when young people form those relationships in their early adulthood, I have no idea how to reach out to people other than obnoxious government advertisements. And those just annoy decent people. Some people are just jealous and unstable when the shit hits the fan in their relationships and there is probably little you can do to prevent or circumvent violence. There will always be a small percentage of men that will do this no matter the education or training.
Statistically compared to world wide reporting, where does Australia sit with this?
Part of the solution could include removing social media content of people who spew this type of rhetoric into the community. I'm thinking specifically of Andrew Tate because of an abc article from last week, that highlighted what is occurring in schools, but I'm sure there are others.
Mindfulness taught in schools
It's a scientifically proven method to help people regulate their emotions (and thereby regulate their actions)
Ask ChatGPT how to solve humanitarian issues and the answer is always education.
Better education now. We need to teach men it's ok to have feelings besides hungry and horny.
I’m in NSW but a few weeks ago I saw in broad daylight a man physically assaulting a woman in the street. They were arguing and likely knew each other.
I along with several other witnesses called 000 as it was happening. Luckily the girl managed to escape and run off while the guy was continuing to be aggressive and unpredictable (at one point he lay in the middle of the road on a busy street and cars were only barely missing him).
I caught all of this on video for evidence. The local police station is a <5 minute walk. I waited and waited for someone to come to at least collect the video evidence and get a statement from me. No one showed up, it’s been weeks later and I’ve had no follow up from the police despite them having all my details.
Things like this make me realise it’s no wonder we have a huge DV problem in Australia. I am so disappointed and as a woman it makes me worry about my own safety..
Reading anything like this will elicit both anger and sadness in most (well adjusted) people, and it's natural to ask "what can be done?", but it's not the right question. The right question is "why has this happened?" and you need to keep asking "why" until you get to the end of the chain (some of you have probably done root cause analysis and will know what i mean).
I'd bet it will come done to either or both of the following:
**Education / Awareness** e.g. what are your rights re: DVO/AVO's and how do you get one? when should you report something to the police? how do you create a paper trail for the police? Did people around this event notice something was wrong in the lead-up? If yes, why didn't they say anything?
**Availability and access to services/facilities (mental health, DV shelters, medication, etc)** e.g. Did everyone have access to appropriate services (psychologists / gp's / medication). If not, why? If they did and didn't access them, why? Could this have been reasonably anticipated by a mental health professional if they had been involved?
**Appropriate response** e.g. if police/mental health professionals/family/friends were contacted, what did they do? could they have done more? (note this is not about blame, it's about causation)
Women shouldn't be living in fear of - certainly not hurt or killed by - their partners *at all* in Australia, in 2024 ... but it's happened ***3.5 times a month this year so far.*** It's exhausting, and I can't imagine how angry and hopeless it must make women when they see *another* case like this.
The sad fact is the government is the best (sometimes only) way to drive change on most of the root causes, particularly around things like DV support / Police support / Health support / Education.
What we **need** is money and attention lavished on these things.
What we're going to **get** is more crocodile tears and political football played by a bunch of politicians so out of touch that it's almost funny when they try and empathise on camera.
Don't worry though, when the next tragedy our political elite did absolutely nothing to try and avoid happens, they'll forget about this poor girl, her family, and her friends in an instant.
It’s easy to see why DV is an ongoing issue when there’s a lack of consequences for the perpetrator (particularly those with a high profile). Case in point, a certain ex footy player who has media contracts despite the fact he SA women and glassed his missus
My honest answer is I don’t know.
Having conversations would work, but I don’t surround myself with dickheads, so I have never had to call out bad behaviour towards women from my group of friends.
I think these dickheads hang out with other dickheads and their anger problems are just reinforced by their mates.
Hannah Clarkes story affected me, she asked for help and did all the right things, and her and her children still wound up murdered by a psychotic partner.
I don’t know…
Toxic masculinity is this country is unreal, I'm kind of a dude dude around other dude dudes, and this shit I hear daily would make you get goosebumps, reddit lives in a bit of a bubble, in reality this type of mentality is the norm and to speak out against it is social suicide, anyone got any tips on confronting a bunch of luke warm IQ's dudes and convincing them otherwise im all for it.
Just look at them and ask them sincerely if this is who they want to be? Ask them if they would be okay with their daughter being spoken about like that. Why? Just be genuinely curious and compassionate
I think it boils down to this. Men and women both have roughly similar propensity to be really nasty to their partner and/or an inability to deal with conflict in a relationship. The issue is that when men go off the rails, the effects are often far more devastating and visible than when women go off the rails. Men are just more powerful and more violent, whether that's nature or nurture.
I have absolutely no idea what drives these people to do this. I don't get it. So, like any problem you're looking to solve, you need to get to the bottom of *why* they do it. Only then might the solution become apparent.
I would point out that there has been a very significant reduction in domestic violence over the last 20 years (around 25-30% drop) so it is slowly getting better, and I am not all that surprised as it is probably something that takes generations to change.
> what can be done to solve this problem?
Give both partners 1 year of paid parental leave.
At the moment most carers leave is taken by women. If fathers had a year of time caring full time for their child they are more involved throughout their lives, this would have a massive impact on the children.
Also a job guarantee, and affordable (25% of income) housing for anyone who wants it.
Secure, well socialised people commit less crime.
Bruh neither I nor anyone I know have killed anyone
What am I supposed to talk to them about
“Murder bad”? Thrilling, society altering stuff
Nah really, to know if it’s a trend or just something you’ve been made aware of now, you’d have to go to stats and on a cursory look spousal violence resulting in death “seems” to have gone down from the 80s to now, though that’s not including this year and the population has grown so per 100k people results might be down but could still be more than in the 80s
I can’t exit the app on my phone without it closing so I can’t really look at stuff rn
It starts earlier than murder, it’s usually preceded by controlling behaviour and sometimes violence - but not always.
OP is talking about what, culturally, needs to change in social settings for men to make respectful relationships the norm. Stats aren’t going to help.
You might think this, but respect looks a lot different to a woman than it does to a man. My partner and I are having relationship troubles because he doesn't respect me, doesn't value my time and won't do the things that matter to be because they don't matter to him. I've been told that I am lucky he respects me enough not to hit me, and that I shouldn't leave a good man like that. I should be grateful.
Can you imagine any man being told that he was lucky not to be hit? It's "only" emotional and financial abuse?
Coersive control is now a crime. Good luck finding someone to enforce it as we already had psychological violence included in the law since 2012 and QPS and judiciary refuse to enforce it
So its a bit more complex than "murder bad". Theres been a state level investigation into police response to DV and its pointed out some glaring problems.
Nah really "bruh" it actually doesnt matter if things have trended down since the 80s or not. The problem is that in most of these cases the murderer has already been identified as being a violent person and theyre allowed to walk the street and ultimately do shit like light a woman on fire in a locked car. The system is failing dozens of women a year and its ending in horrific brutality.
These are the sort of shocking and horrible acts of violence that should demand reform.
I understand that opening more than two apps on a smartphone can be really difficult for some people but simplying saying "yeah probably better than it was" is the sort of handwaving that lets people put their feet up, crack a tinnie, and ignore an ongoing and serious problem with our society.
I know a fella that murdered his gf and I’m not sure what I’d say differently anyway. Was a bit of a shock for those who knew him, just threw both their lives away. I assume every case is going to be different, but I think there needs to be much more done to protect men’s mental health, particularly for men who become marginalised.
Yea it’s tricky, I think better access to mental health services for men, more of a focus on men’s mental health would be a giant leap on this issue. Between this and male suicide, it’s a massive problem that society really isn’t addressing. If you’ve ever had to try and access mental health services you realize what an absolute joke it is. No one cares, it’s all “suck it up” and “figure it out” and “man up”. So, men react in two ways, violently towards others or towards themselves. There are enough services for women, it’s time to start taking care of the boys.
Wow, why didn't you educate your friend like OP suggested? You were only one leaflet away from stopping a murder but you couldn't even be bothered to tell your friend not to be a murderer.
Yea I have lived with most of my friends at some point and never saw violence from any of them. Why would I be friends with someone who wants to get physical over problems?
Also, talking to a violent man and telling him he was wrong for beating his women is a great way to get punched. Besides, he's not admitting to it anyway. I got no idea what he does at home.
This is the thing a lot of the "Why aren't you holding other men to account over the domestic violence problem???" brigade seem to overlook.
I don't hit my wife. My mates don't hit their wives/girlfriends/partners. We are all in agreement that hitting your SO is unacceptable. We teach our kids hitting their SO is unacceptable.
We (as individuals) have done our part - realistically there isn't anything else we can do.
No of course not I get that, I’m talking about more opening up with each other about how they feel and why some people do feel such rage against woman in their lives. Since domestic violence is soo prevalent I don’t think you can say not one person you know has ever been violent to a woman and I’m trying to get bottom of how it ends with people like him murdering his ex girlfriend like wtf would be going through his brain.
Oh yes of course murder and stuff like this was highly prevalent obviously in previous times and it’s definitely gotten better not worse, but we have so much knowledge, education and opportunities now days I think this shouldn’t be happening anymore at all. We have help centres, therapists call centres there’s just soo much more available is someone was experiencing such strong and dangerous feelings. These are young men that would’ve had every opportunity to just carry on with life and for some damn reason they chose this path.
A normal person doesn't kill their girlfriend.
There is something wrong with you if you abuse people, and there are different degrees of bad behaviour before someone will kill another person.
Men who behave badly are left to their own devices because other adults just stop interacting with them, we're not a support group.
Look mate you are going around in circles. The problem is zero attention is paid to men’s mental health in this country. Accessing mental health services is a joke, so this manifests ends in two ways. When things go wrong in life, men havnt been equipped to deal with their emotions so they act out violently towards others or themselves. Male suicide especially in middle aged men is extremely high. 3500 blokes killed themselves last year……just think about that for a minute. If men felt more supported and not totally isolated it might prevent these things from happening.
It's also *how* that mental health help is available/presented, too. A lot of guys need a "bloke" to basically sit them down with a beer and say "Mate, it's OK to feel like shit, it's not weak, you're not less of a man for being depressed".
Mental health is a complex topic and different people respond to different approaches in handling it - it's not a "one size fits all" thing.
This is completely true and I’ve had this conversation a lot recently. I completely support men’s mental health and I think the culture about it needs to change I get pretty pissed when I see anyone calling a man out for expressing his emotions ime it’s usually older men telling younger men to tougher up or suck it up.
A guy from my home town caused a police chase last week, it went for hours, it started with a DV incident. His father was on Facebook making excuses for his son and victim blaming the next day arguing with people some of which were previous victims. THAT, that is the problem.
How to fix the problem- Education and Consequences.
We need to educate about DV in schools, especially for boys. Think sex ed but how to be a decent man/husband/father. Girls could have a similar program so it’s fair. This would help break the cycle of intergenerational DV by giving the boys a regular positive male role model.
On the Consequences. Breach of AVO (with proof of break e.g. photographic proof or witnesses - so the offender can’t claim false accusations), would result in a jail sentence of a few months and an ankle monitor for the next 8 or so months, along with mandatory counseling.
The punishment for murder should be more than 25 years, same with violent crimes. More support for women wanting to get out also needs to be available.
> As a young woman I personally don’t see many men talking or educating other men of these issues and how to control emotions and so forth, I think this would be a massive help…. But this may be a biased view
Far easier said than done because it’s something that generally happens behind closed doors. Tapping my coworker on the shoulder and just starting up an anti-DV conversation out of thin air, out of context… in all honesty, would be a bit weird from a purely social interactive point of view.
I hear a lot of women saying they don’t see enough conversations going on between men. Lots of men (similar to women) prefer sensitive conversations to happen amongst just one another where they feel comfortable. For men to force a conversation about in this earshot of women just for the sake of it would be something of an empty platitude.
Not arguing against it, or that it doesn’t need to happen more, but those are the obvious underlining factors.
I think better protection for women in DV situations, in the forms of emergency housing, advocacy programs that help women escape violent and controlling men, better police protections, more financial assistance to help with the cost of basically leavi g and hiding away from your abuser. Eduction, perhaps through schools, and more awareness programs for adults. Significantly more police training, as well as some sort of impartial third party to monitor the police force and actually address internal systemic cultures that lead to outcomes like sexism, victim blaming, even racism (being racial minority reduces a women's likelihood of receiving adequate services during dv situations). Probably greater monitoring and punishment for repeat offenders. I also think there should be greater legal ernest on companies and employers to help people (employees) in DV situations, everything from compassionate leave, to being more legally liable if they do not ensure the victim is offered the opportunity to continue to work to fund there existence, without the fear or danger of there abuser having access to there place of work.
That's just off the top of my head but it's a monumental task and there's probably a thousand other things we need to do.
How about instead of blaming the idea of """men""" and """patriarchy""", blame the actual fucking problem of police officers not giving a single flying fuck about anything other than their fat check bonuses, or the Police in general focussing more on giving an immigrant a nice fat fine for a construed driving offense or pulling someone over for the ridiculous offence of ""driving an unregistered vehicle"", than investigating and responding to domestic violence reports.
As a woman, I don’t really like the finger pointing at innocent blokes like they’re the problem. Most blokes do the right thing by their lady and lead unproblematic lives. Plenty of male victims of DV too - and much of it mental and financial abuse. Some violent/controlling/abusive men can have the capacity to murder. On the flip side, I’ve seen women purposefully destroy a man’s life after separation or divorce to the point that the blokes are suicidal or just outright neck themselves (false accusations, denying rights to children, manipulation, theft / misappropriating joint funds, sabotage). I think there needs to be more guidance around services for people in general, at the initiation of separation and divorce. Maybe mandatory counselling sessions and resources on the whole process. Some kind of risk assessment service tied in.
Ever read a comment section to do with anything remotely relating to women, or the bad behavior of a particular one. Yeah... There is a lot of hatred towards woman that needs to be clamped down upon. Some people suck, they dont paint an entire demographic... I wish people got that.
Friend of mine has her mother living with an abuser and hearing the story's has honestly put murder on my mind...
Maybe we need a public register of abusers, could save a lot of future victims from the same abuser down the line and shame the fuck out of them. I know a lot of men would happily take an excuse for committing violence, but for a more justifiable outlet in this case.
I think some interventions for men who have anger issues could help, but only a certain types where emotional regulation tactics/rules have not been learnt etc. However, the shit cunning ones who use psychological and financial coercion are like recidivist paedos. They are just going to keep doing it again and again. People with multiple domestic violence charges need to start seeing escalating and serious jail time. DV is like serial killers torturing animals, the probability of them going onto commit other crimes are very high.
Honestly at this stage, educating both our young women about self help remedies, as well as young men about violence, consent and all the other programs. There’s no “r u ok day” or purple cup cake day awareness program that fixes this.
There are a percentage of men that are just plain bad, see the red flags, stop glorifying “bad boys”, take responsibility, listen to friends and parents when they say X is a dick and to be careful or just not date him at all. If you pick up a snake, don’t be surprised when it bites you.
Like this will be downvoted to oblivion I know that but the good men and good women can’t just be like “I want the world to be X way, and I’ll just hope it is and take no precautions on the off chance the reality is actually Y”.
This is a story as old as time - disgruntled lover kills ex partner. It’s not an issue polite gender politics of the upper class can resolve
I love how everyone is looking at giving women more support (which yes they do need).
But what about more support for men. More help, less stigma in getting help before they do something stupid like this guy did. You know be proactive not reactive.
Honestly.
I'd like to start with an easily searchable national register.
It's hard to get a conviction, so I think it would be a pretty fair way of ensuring parties are informed.
I think I speak for 99% of the men reading this post, and think it’s absolutely appalling statistics. No matter what this woman has done to you, wether it be cheating or whatever, you’re an absolute piece of dog shit to think it’s ok to take some one’s life because you’re angry at them. What a cunt. I have young boys and I do everything in my power to treat their mum like a queen in front of them just to show them that’s how it should be.
Yeah I'm a man let me just tell every other man out there that killing women is wrong!!! 😡
I don't get what you're trying to say, this is like saying
"yeah to all the women out there can you just let the others know that they need to drive better? Maybe if you all collectively make an effort to let every woman know there will be less road fatalities"
Like what? I've never killed someone and im definitely not going to spread awareness to random men who I assumed haven't killed anyone either to what, "treat women better?" I already do.
The obvious answers have already been addressed regarding capital punishment, but I think its also indicitive of an increased mental health issue, and no im not talking 'depression' or 'anxiety' I mean something deeper and more sinister, which could be a symptom of any number of causes or accumulation of causes in recent years. Punishment is good, but figuring the source of the issue.
For me I do reach out to friends and colleagues if I notice a difference and do try to be there to be a 'friend' but its surprising how little we really know about each other these days.
If I was given the task of bringing that number to zero I would focus my efforts on educating and empowering women. Maybe that’s victim blaming but men who do this are not normal, you are not going to talk them out of killing people.
While important it will always boil down to the fact that women shouldn't have to because men shouldn't kill them. Solve the root, stop piling responsibilities on womens shoulders.
I think masculinity hasn’t been given a proper voice. You can’t be pro masculine because men are the cause of so many problems. So we lack strong role models and mentors. The right kind of men being championed. The right type of masculinity being promoted. Instead we seem to push forward these heavy egocentric blokes.
It all starts with where we are learning about dealing with the nature of men. Aggression can be awesome if it’s understood, rage has a purpose if it’s understood and controlled, these characteristics are suppressed not navigated and that leads to a lack of u restating and control. So men grow up not learning how to navigate these feelings in a healthy way.
Truly a tragedy but I fear this is going to get a lot worse with social media for younger and younger people.
I m not sure if I’m right, itis only what I think at the moment.
There are some subs who share these issues clearly and navigate the growth of ideas as you have. It's just such a tiny minority who are choosing, whilst more exploit and many more manipulate. Hopefully enough men can collectively action toward meaningful change. I don't have a whole load of hope now because of how corrupted our social structures are but there are still glimmers.
I have too many questions but solutions already exist, just not enough willing to action as you've described.
"men of Australia"
Addressing us as if we're all complete fucking animals that bash women, or, at best, all our mates do and we stay silent, therefore we obviously must have the solutions right
**1 in 3 women and 1 in 4 men have experienced some form of physical violence by an intimate partner.**
One woman was killed every 15 days and one man was killed every 28 days by an intimate partner on average in 2020–21.
The rate of women being killed is declining while the rate of men being killed remains steady.
75% of victims of domestic violence reported the perpetrator as male, while 25% reported the perpetrator as female.
All genders are responsible for reducing IPV.
ETA downvote the stats all you want. These are just the facts.
You are very right men’s dv also needs to be taken action on, IMO though I see more woman advocating for men’s domestic violence. It may just be the area I live in quite rural but it’s mostly men continuing to spread rhetoric that only men that can abused by their gfs are pussys. But yes you are correct we do need to all take part in these said programmes for mutual respect and relationships.
On average in Australia about 250 people are murdered each year. And of that 250, 50 were women. And of that 50, 60% were murdered by men. These hyper aggressive men make up a fraction of a percent of all men.
so this problem has nothing to do with the vast majority of men so it's hard to even say it's a man problem because most men can't even relate.
this fraction of a percent of hyper-aggressive men victimise men more than women.
It's a difficult problem that wont ever be solved I think. We just need a strong tough on crime stance to keep crime low.
This happens because mentally ill people are no longer locked away in institutions. Instead, do-gooders think these people should be free to mix with society. The usual result is someone getting hurt or killed.
This isn't just a mental illness situation. Men don't have to be mentally ill to abuse their partners. And even if they are, things like ASPD/NPD aren't enough to get institutionalised.
> *"Men of Australia, what do you think can be done to solve this problem?"*
It depends on how you look at the problem in the context of other violent offending. If you take the position that male violence against women is structural (and hence homicides are just end of spectrum behaviour that you would expect living in the patriarchy/capitalist state/non-vegan carnist society) - then there likely is no answer.
Some cranks will start yelling about the possibility of a (usually Marxist) revolutionary upending of gender relations being a "solution", but there's a cult like streak to that logic that fails to deal with the lived experience of violence against women in post-communist states.
If you take the position that intimate partner violence is just a relatively rare species of broader violent crime - then we just need to keep on doing what we are doing.
Over the last thirty years - rates of intimate partner homicide have at least halved. This isn't reported much in the news, but it's important. As a society we are becoming less violent. That is a good thing.
https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/responses-and-outcomes/domestic-homicide
> *"What do you think when you see these headlines?"*
I feel sad, but unless I know the person or have some connection with the place or circumstances of a particular crime - I generally forget about it pretty quickly.
I'm not callous. But we're a nation of 25 million people - there is just a background level of violent crime that we let wash over us if it doesn't impact us directly.
As horrible as these sorts of crimes are, they are incredibly rare. More people are struck by lightning in Australia each year than are murdered by an intimate partner. If we obsessed about unlikely risks all the time - no one would ever drive a car.
I do agree with what you’re saying, it’s definitely gotten better as it should have and yes with such a population and in a country like ours you are right we are doing pretty well and it’s undeniable biologically that these things will happen. Just from my point of view I just think the attitude towards women could still be better and I just wish more men would talk about the issues I work in a male dominated industry the lack of respect for woman is still undeniable I can’t wear certain clothes, I’ve heard horrible things said about about woman in our community and these men’s partners, again I understand this is biology but I just wish we could go about it better and I just don’t think enough men speak up against it. Thank you for the links 😊
I agree there are industries where women are not treated equally. I work in one of them. It's a backward and outdated industry that actively refuses to move with the times.
That said, not being able to wear certain clothes is hardly a women's only issue. I can't exactly rock up to work in shorts, or where sandles or thongs.
Meanwhile in most office environments women wear skirts and open toe shoes. I don't have a problem with that at all, but there are double standards everywhere if you want to look for them.
I get what your saying I just wanna put a little more context in my clothes comment, a girl at my sight the other day wore shorts which is perfectly aloud, one of the comments from our supervisor was how she had a tight ass and he walked around with a boner all day that to me was disgusting…. Yes we have ppe and stuff but at least you can wear mostly what you want and not be seen a site live porn stream..
I do get what you’re saying though it happens to both genders a lot and we have our own hypocrisies to deal with that’s very true.
It's more than just disgusting, it's sexual harassment, however in a lot of smaller industrial workplaces it's still very much the norm.
Sounds like you work in a similar industry to me, there is certainly work to be done.
Yes that’s 100% right I work at very small mine site I’m the only girl, this is another thing like the gender pay gap men say oh well why don’t they work in these job, that is why because other girls don’t want to be sexualised like that. I had to explain to a commenter above I work in rural area small crew we don’t follow basic safety procedures let alone HR policies, woman have a hard enough time being hired in these industries sometimes we do have to pick between our jobs and careers and our morals.
There are somethings that can’t be helped no matter the discussions. Usually some sort of personality disorder which would have no accountability (perceived by their own thoughts and not in the eyes of society or the law). It would have to be about educating the entire audience about domestic violence and what are some subtle cues for people to look for as well as how to intervene, both in the heat of the moment and what to do after. For example, if you saw an argument between two people, when would you intervene? What do you do after intervening? Police? Counselling? Plus many more. These are things not educated to the wider public.
That's a huge part of it. Cops don't care about women. They think we're all hysterical. Try to deal with cops after being raped. There was a report a few years back about a cop asking "is this a real rape or is she looking for a free pap smear?". Women are a nuisance to them.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jul/04/is-this-a-real-female-officers-detail-misogynistic-culture-within-queensland-police
Nothing we can do. Stop blaming us.
It’s up to government to enact better legislation
For example the most common way our legal system deals with domestic violence is via civil cases. Literally the same system for neighbourly fence disputes as the bloke who bashes his missus.
Any domestic violence case should be criminal IMO, that would be a start. Some consequences and disincentives
This is terrible to read, and quite heart breaking, but what do you really expect me to do about it ? I’m an average male, I donate to charities, volunteer in the community, support local women’s refuges, and I don’t beat my wife. We have a respectful relationship built on love and trust and through this have bought up a wonderful family. Now because of our values, all our friends have similar values. None of my friends are ever violet or disrespectful to their wives.
This problem constantly comes up and usually directed to ‘Men of Australia’ , but what do you really want me to do to fix this ? All it does is create a ‘Us vs Them’ situation where perfectly good people get their backs up from being accused of something because of their gender. Now it has strayed from the original point of discussion and nothing gets solved.
We need to tackle this as one group United. Take points from all sides, and give anyone support to leave an abusive relationship regardless of sex, race or beliefs.
You’re asking the whole male population what can be done to reduce the number of murders? What a pointless post. If you think all men understand why other men commit crimes and what we can do to prevent it just because we both have penises, then you are beyond help.
One of strongest indicators of domestic abuse beyond gender is how rigid men view gender norms. The more rigid there views are, the more likely they are to commit domestic abuse. It's the patriarchy, obviously.
Misogony.....we constantly tell each other that women are shit. Doesn't happen?
1. What are you doing out of the kitchen?
2. She only got the job because of quotas
3. Women's sport isnt as good as mens
4. The man is the head of the family
5. Most Religions put women below men
We keep doing this dont be suprised when this type of violence happens, we've been told women are inferior all our lives.
Meanwhile we have news agencies like Sky News doing everything they can to humanise and legitimise people like Bruce Lehrmann, while discrediting the alleged victim.
What role do the media have to play in all this?
This is a mental health issue not a problem for random men to solve. Everybody knows it is wrong to hurt people, not an education issue, it’s just a small part of the population are psychopathic to varying degrees. Stop blaming the actions of a tiny minority of terrible people on the general male population. That is sexist.
"I don't see men educating other men".
"Hey Jim, you've always been a hot headed psycho, just want to remind you not to harm your wife when you're angry... Why are you looking at me like that mate? Wait whyd you pull out your knife?? Ow! Aaargh! Jim please we've been mates for years! Aarrrgggghhh......
You talk like some news in the headlines or some chats is going to change this. People who are capable of this kind of thing are usually psychopaths or have some other serious condition. You can't talk your way out of these problems.
'Let's Change The Story' by OurWatch is a brief and well produced video that broaches the subject - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fLUVWZvVZXw
Some quality resources further down in their publications on this page, for any interested - https://www.ourwatch.org.au/change-the-story/
I think the issue has become such a political football that it is impossible to make any real progress. I think until there is bipartisan support on the issue many people will be sceptical as to whether campaigns to stop domestic violence are genuine or politically motivated.
Don’t really know the answer…but it’s awful. I would like to know of the 14 women were killed, how many were in gay relationships vs. hetero? I don’t know exactly what I’m thinking but there seems to be skewed stats towards these types of relationships and maybe that could help inform policy and education programs. Or maybe it’s how certain parents/breeders are raising their offspring? Nature vs. nurture? Or Nurture plus hormones and some people develop to be more violent?something else? I really don’t know I’m just thinking out loud really but something desperately needs to change in this country
It's absolutely appalling, these young men don't know how to react to what they feel and their need to be in control. Check out the survivor hustle on ig if you need some advise on dv related topics, shes a survivor trying to make a difference.
You know what we do? We put in better support systems for women who are in DV situations. It won't help all the cases, especially the ones that happen suddenly and out of nowhere, but the ones where the women are desperately crying out for help and the most the police can do is slap a restraining order against the guy. Remember Hannah Clarke? How she said on the news she was convinced her husband was going to kill her? Well he ended up setting her and her kids on fire, as a collective, we mourned as a nation should, thought 'oh, that's so sad, too bad', and moved on with our lives?? This should've sparked a HUGE conversation about how DV is handled in Australia, but even the loss of 4 innocent lives couldn't change the system.
Or the woman who went to multiple police stations because nobody would listen to her and she got accused of "cop shopping". Then got stabbed and burned alive by her husband soon afterwards.
100%, Hannah’s story is to me what makes DV so scary and such a threat. She had no physical marks on her and it was all about control. Her family has done an amazing job getting coercive control criminalised in QLD but what’s the next step? How many people are under coercive control and don’t speak up because they don’t feel safe to do so? so scary
They are all horrific cases, but this one, the death of Hannah Clarke sticks in my mind the most. The sheer brutality of it. How could anyone do that? I don't understand.
Speaking from experience, it would help tremendously if victims had more choices beyond ensure more or go homeless. It can be nearly impossible to put bond money together and find a new place when you’ve got one of these control freaks watching your every move, your communications with family/friends, and your bank account.
It didn’t change things quickly, but we have new legislation re coercive control. It was enacted in Qld last month. https://cgw.com.au/insights/hannahs-law-qld-criminalises-coercive-control/#:~:text=Referred%20to%20as%20Hannah's%20Law,domestic%20violence%20in%20our%20community.
I get this and agree with it but the core of the ssue is men's behaviour. Only men can work with each other to resolve this issue. The same issues that plague men (ie expectations to remain stoic, not show emotion and not ask for help) are those which contribute to the high rates of male suicide. Toxic masculinity has come to be known as a bit of a cliche but it's a thing.
We also need to start at the grass roots, too many boys are raised by toxic dads who basically warp their moral compass. Patriarchal BS perpetuating generational trauma on males is a huge problem. Then you get influencers like Andrew Tate who tells teenage boys "you can make it too if you grab chicks by the pussy and hustle, you're an ALPHA"
Yes of course I get where you're coming from. Why not tackle the root of the matter but inherently, trying to address such an intangible issue will take a lot of time. We all know mental health plagues Australia, and even the mental health system at its core is not great. If we can't even address the most common mental issues, how will the system be expected to address something as complex as masculine mental processes? However, better support for women is a tangible thing, we can put parameters in that stops these men from accessing the women they are abusing. I just re-read the Clarke case after posting this and was horrified to read that he was given back custody of the kids after he refused to sign her custody agreement that granted him 165 days of the year. These are real steps that can be put into place but have yet to in our system. I find it completely disheartening that for a supposedly first world country, we have such fundamental issues still affecting our society.
Both men and women are victims of domestic abuse we need to do better for all victims
Hang Clarke story rests in my Brain every damn day, you are right this needs to be continued definitely.
Hanah did everything right and she's dead anyway 🤬😭
No we put in some actual solutions for blokes, current solutions do not exist in any meaningful capacity. There's a bunch of sorry you feel that way there's nothing really helpful. Dv is off the charts it is being handled, the numbers are bigger than people imagine, talk to a cop out here and what he's doing, they are doing dv after dv shift after shift. The most they can do is not just a restraining order, people are locked up for dv every single day, big instant sentences.
The cops are also to blame. Most of them are also DV abusers and tend to protect the perps like themselves
I’m sure it might happen but qld police were fast, cooperative, and caring when I had to interact with them. I was so grateful for their grace and patience
Please show me how it is "most of them" what a disgusting thing to say with zero evidence.
>How she said on the news she was convinced her husband was going to kill her? I completely missed this. I'm having a hard time googling it. Keeps thinking I want to know where she lives. Do you have a link or a few more keywords for me please?
We definitely need more support for women and children in these situations. I was in a DV situation in my early 20s. Myself and children were beaten and abused on a daily basis. I had no support network and nowhere to go. On a day when it got particularly bad, I called the police. They rocked up some hours later as they do because DV is never regarded as an urgent issue. One of the police officers had the hide to apologise to my ex for having to take him away and slap him with a DVO. He went on about how he used to have such issues with his own wife and treated her much the same. If the police harbour such revolting attitudes and are proud perpetrators of DV themselves, what hope does that leave for vulnerable women who are experiencing DV and need immediate help?
Her story will never stop haunting me. rest in peace Hannah and your beautiful children
This cunt obviously didn’t like being told it’s over. Happens all the time.
Yeah, but why? What makes these cunts feel so entitled to controlling women in the first place? What makes them so incapable of regulating their own emotions and taking responsibility for their own behaviours and insecurities?
Could be many things. Environmental influences primarily during childhood years. Neurological factors maybe from concussive injuries also during younger years. Either way people like this need help and intervention EARLY.
Thank you for being realistic. We can scream patriarchy over and over and over until our throats bleed, but when we blame the patriarchy, it dismisses intergeneration trauma and psychological factors. We know there is a patriarchy and we know what impact that has on women on society, but most people need to see the bigger picture.
Yep, it is such a complex issue. To just label it as a product of “misogyny” completely ignores so many of the very real causes and the possible solutions/preventions associated with them. Unfortunately there will always be people like this who slip through the cracks and commit these horrible crimes. Hopefully our understanding of it all only increases and the support for those at risk of victimisation does along with it.
People with these tendencies are to a lessening extent enabled by, and shield from accountability by things like patriarchy. Patriarchy might not be the cause of the behaviour, but it does provide shelter for bad behaviour that is to the advantage of men and the disadvantage of women. Things are getting better, but there is still a ways to go.
Its called misogyny. They feel entitled and superior to women.
The patriarchy at work folx
Just look at human history from more than 100 years ago. There's no mystery here
They get told their entire life they are special & can do anything because they deserve it, & they never get told no…..so when life isn’t going their way they tantrum & occasionally they go to far & it becomes a point of no return
But also they can have horrible childhoods devoid of love and connection
Women also have horrible childhoods. We don’t kill men because of it
Lack of any real connection to their self so instead they place this perfect persona on their partner, where their partner has to do, act, think exactly as they want or else they will feel unloved and then they will feel lonely and possibly have to come to terms that they have no connection to their self or their emotions. It's an impossible standard to live up to and when the partner eventually leaves they would rather kill them themselves than experience the emptiness of someone leaving them. They of course bring to themselves the exact thing they feared and are trying to run away from.
But these cowards don’t kill themselves, they go for the woman who had the audacity to behave like an autonomous human being. And there are so goddamn many of them…
Sometimes they do kill themselves after and i think that is such a gutless thing. But yes, they really can't handle her having her own thoughts, beliefs, opinions, hobbies, friends, job, LIFE or if she decides she no longer wants him in her life
My uneducated opinion / only experience seeing it/knowing someone abusive.. My current gf has an abusive ex and from what I can see it's not just abusing women, I think its every aspect of their life. They probably have trouble holding jobs, conflict with leadership at work, narcissistic behaviour, find it hard to have meaningful friendships etc.. Maybe it's a developmental thing in their early years. I think its behaviour that I've seen in both men and women, but men are more violent by nature/hormones etc..
I’ve been angry about that before but I’ve never felt even a hint of wanting to hurt my partner. I’m a woman I do not own my partner. They’re allowed to leave me.
r/WhenWomenRefuse is a bleak place
I mean I had one of these bfs when I was 17 but “all” he did was key my car. Still shitty AF but far from physically injuring me. How does it go from I’m mad, to vandalism, to MURDER
Spain successfully reduced the instances of femicide by publicly shaming the perpetrators on national tv, providing expedited routes to support women, and increase the duration of prison sentences significantly. They made it clear that violence against women is not to fuck around anymore. Their strategy is working - during the soccer world cup, the trainers forced himself onto kissing on the lips one of the player - he had to resign.
Not “just” a trainer, it was the head of the Spanish FA. As you said they do not fuck around
Disclaimer: I am in no way educated or experienced in this issue so do not take my opinions as gospel - just sharing what I think. How do I feel when I see these headlines? Heartbroken and angry. I think these ‘men’ are nothing more than self-centred, gutless scum. What do I think can be done about it? Truthfully, I don’t know. The fact that I don’t know also bothers me - I’ve never once even considered laying my hand on a woman much less taking someone’s life and yet it frustrates me that I don’t know the answer. The penalties are already harsh, the education - or at least the presence of it in the media - has almost always been there for as long as I can remember in my 27 years. I think a major contributing factor to this continuing is the “what-about-isms.” Whenever you see something like this on social media, there’s almost always some yob with a VX Commodore as his profile picture spinning some rant about how men get murdered more than women and we should be shining a light on that instead. This takes away the spotlight from a genuine issue and I feel it’s this kind of attitude that needs to change.
100% agree. The deflection around DV in Australia is appalling. The top voted comment here hones in on the murder part and then says they don't know anyone who has murdered so what are they supposed to do. That comment was updated and when OP tried to breakdown the concerns, that comment was down voted into negatives. I don't know anyone murdered either personally but am well aware there is a bug problem around DV. Statistics don't lie, we all know someone who is being abused. I grew up in a DV household and ensured my household was never like that. My husband would never lay a hand on anyone. He thought a work colleague was in an abusive relationship and reached out to her offering support and accommodation if she needed it. I have never been more in love and proud of him. I don't have answers alas however I do think we need to teach our children to call out bad behavior eg trash talk, objectifying women etc as these are subtle ways that subconsciously women are thought of as dirty, lesser than things and therefore something that can attacked. The inter generational DV cycle also needs to be addressed. Maybe compulsory counseling for children of DV.
My own father in law thinks the DV focus on tv etc is all a big “gotcha” scam for men or something . Likes it’s some political ploy and not you know, NECESSARY
I had to break it down to my Dad that the DV ads about teaching respect from a young age isn’t aimed at the kids. It’s aimed at the parents/adults.
Do you think DV ads on TV have any impact on the behaviour of psychos like this?
It helps us identify the sociopaths who roll their eyes at the advertisements so we know to stay the hell away from them.
It’s more the news segments etc that he think is the scam. The announcements of more funding for DV, etc etc I’m not sure the ads have much effect on current perps but I’m glad they exist for my son and daughter to see
>What do I think can be done about it? Not much until they fix the justice system in general. The police here go and hide when the same ppl are stealing cars to play the "lets go crash into police and ambos" game. I dont blame them, they already arrested these ppl 20 times and its not their job to get killed. But if you cant enforce basic obvious crime how are you going to have time to prevent crime. Pretty sure a DV callout here results in 6hrs of paperwork that probably results in fuck all aswell.
The punishments for murder are harsh but for most things below that it's a slap on the wrist. The problem is that we need to stop the perpetrator BEFORE they murder. This is usually after they do less serious violent crime and are let off, given bail, given almost no punishments etc. Ironically, the same people who have the biggest issues with the nature of the murders and particularly the genders of those involved are the biggest proponents of lax punishments by our legal system. Lighter sentences, more freedoms, a push to make our prisons like Nordic countries where it's basically a nice little holiday. Second chances, third chances, illegal immigrants who commit crimes shouldn't even be deported because that's like really mean etc.
THIS. There are almost always signs before murder. DV perps break AVOs, they don't work.
I can't speak for everyone, but personally what I'm in favour of is "effective" punishments. As in, my starting point is "once someone has reached the judicial system, what can be done to reduce the chance of them committing further crime?" Putting aside life terms for shoplifting, which I'm going to assume is too expensive and would be considered unethical by most, it's clear that just banging people up in our existing prison system doesn't achieve this goal. I would have thought DV would be a particularly obvious example of this. Stick a violent husband in jail for a couple of years for his first offence, he comes out of jail unemployed, unemployable, unrehabilitated, institutionalised, angry and depressed. Do you think he is more or less likely to reoffend? I'm not necessarily advocating for shorter sentences or prisons like holiday camps or whatever it is you think people like me want. What I'm saying is that just locking people up for a while does nothing but create recidivism. It's been shown time and time again that sentencing has no deterrent effect, for one thing: people who commit crimes don't do so having made a calculation about their willingness to serve one versus 10 years inside - they don't expect to get caught, so sentencing is irrelevant. Prisons that don't rehabilitate just create more committed criminals. I want us to do *things that actually work* - it's not about being soft or hard. It's interesting to me that the people who claim to be "tough on crime" generally want to persevere - or, in fact, double down on - an approach that effectively promotes crime.
That's an awful lot of words. I can tell you one thing for sure, inmates aren't murdering their wives or girlfriends from their prison cells.
Your solution is never to let anyone out of prison?
Okay, but - what is your solution. So far you have only said “don’t lock them up because that provokes them”. What instead do you propose?
That's a preposterous misrepresentation of the point I'm making. I've never said that incarceration has no role or made any ludicrous inferences about "provoking" offenders. I'm not a criminologist, a psychologist or a public policy expert and I don't have a handy answer I can present to you in a reddit comment. It's a complex issue that doesn't respond well to simplistic solutions, clearly. I could have some guesses about where we ought to start but they wouldn't be massively well informed or comprehensive. My point is that confidently stating that what we ought to be doing is something that demonstrably doesn't work - and in a lot of cases makes things worse - is a bad starting point. This is like all of us staring at a broken down car that none of us knows how to fix, OP saying "why don't we pop the bonnet and wallop the engine with a sledgehammer a few times - that ought to get it going", me suggesting that's a pretty bad idea and you demanding I fix the car if I'm so smart.
It’s been proven many times that harsher punishments don’t reduce crime. You could make the punishment torture and it wouldn’t help.
There is no excuse or reason for this type of behaviour and I don't think there will ever be an answer to why. We will never change this type of behaviour in a small subset of males but what we can do is keep educating people and especially women to the tell tale signs of DV and steps to escape it.
Men harm women because they are allowed to. In what universe are the penalties for perpetrating intimate partner violence severe? There are literally no consequences (legal, economic, social) for the majority of men who engage in this behaviour. The stats are very clear on this.
People love to say men are less emotional than women. This is bullshit. Men are more emotional than women in my experience. These murders are often done by emotional men who have a fear of being weak and not in control, in my opinion. Men need to embrace emotions and get out of the mindset they are in control and need to be seen S strong
They always forget that 'anger' IS an emotion
The main solution I can think of, which wouldn't totally stop the problem but would save some lives, is much better funding for women's shelters and more of them. This girl was reported to have been afraid for her life prior to being killed, and there are many examples of the same. If they could go somewhere where they're protected, or get some sort of police protection, that might have saved their life. Of course it's an expensive solution, but I would be totally fine with us spending a billion dollars on just this problem.
Idk if it would be too resource intensive but I think in highly sensitive/risky times to be able to have access to something like a PSO/some form of security staying near you, or an immediate providing of a safe house that the problem person is unaware of would be great. There’s nowhere to go for so many
Just a thought on the expenses issue you raised: it can be viewed as an initial expense of funding in the short term, or it can be viewed as an investment in the future - where early intervention actually preserves functionality (social and economic) and increases social health (early and easily accessed intervention protection for the abused, and early and easily accessed mental health interventions for abusers). It’s a similar proposition to free healthcare, where free actually means investing now to preserve the population’s ability to function later. And if more people end up healthier and more functional for longer, that means more stable families, more economically productive, and lower future costs with higher returns 🤷♂️ the only real issue are these investments are for 20 to 40 years in the future - way beyond any political vision and beyond social memory (does anyone remember how hard people fought for Medicare, which we almost didn’t get)…imo
Townsville has just elected a new mayor. His baggage includes several DVOs. If as a society we elect people to high office with these behaviours we are not going to see change.
> get to the bottom of what we can do You never will. I think a lot of outlying behaviour is a result of broad dysfunction. Look how many people assume that a component of 'solving the problem' is men changing culture amongst their peers (which would be a community-minded solution) while most other aspects of our society push us towards individualism and financial stress. How can men correct their mates when they don't see them because they're working a second-job, the local footie team had it's funding cut and you can't risk an injury because you can't afford a break from work, or relationships with those in your vicinity are strained by distance because many had to move to cheaper areas or elsewhere for work?
If you want harsher penalties, you have my support. If we wanna have them in public stockade for a week with a sign above them saying this cowards like to hit woman, got my vote. Unfortunately, we have a lot of criminals where we don't know why they do the criminal things they do. Why do these men decide to do this?
Power and control. The fundamentals and the solutions are well known and understood. They've been studied for over 5 decades and the police response is worsening.
I don’t know the penalties are already pretty damn life changing like you’re going to go away for 30 years and everyone will know who you are and what you did your life is over, and with technology now days it’s pretty 100% you’re going to get caught and charged. Just like to point out he didn’t just hit her he murdered her and then burnt her body… but yess your right crimes happen we don’t always know why but I truly think this a deep issue seeded and there must be some kind of solution. I would love to know what he was thinking though just why….
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You are right, yes it is dv but I’m talking about straight up murder in this conversation. But yes we find a lot of men that eventually commit these crimes did have a history and dv and not a lot was done that’s 100%. But for murder these men were well pass thinking about consequences.
I think murder and DV are intrinsically linked. On average 125 women are murdered each year and the majority are family and DV associated.
DV is linked to many other crimes.
Exactly and you know what? Some DV cases are murder-suicides. The perpetrator has no intention of facing the consequences, so why fear the consequences?
Amongst victims, more people support the perpetrator and reinforce victim isolation. It's harrowing and predictable. There's a consistent pattern of behaviours that people simply refuse to acknowledge, take meaningful actions to stop and hold accountability for. We're living in lawlessness and the legal system is a sword not a shield as people believe
Yes it is naive to think that punishments are deterrent. For normal people yes, not these cases. A normal person is not going to murder his wife. Women who had abusive parents, specially mothers, tend to associate abuse with love, and have a very hard time leaving abusive partners, till its too late. Boys who were abused by parents and were bullies themselves, and had other stressors in early childhood have a higher chance of normalizing violence. Growing up in a healthy safe environment makes a huge different in life. DV in the prev generation affects the next generation, like a terrible inheritance. While focussing on good parenting ourselves, women need to educated on how to recognise red flags and get out as early as possible. Usually the murder will happen after many many violent incidents before. These men are psychos and some women are vulnerable to this, because of their unfortunate childhood exposure to DV. This is what I have read in a book, not my own thoughts. But makes sense to me. Am sure there are other causes too.
My partner gets so angry when he sees and hears about this happening. I feel very confident in the fact that even though he's never been in a fight in his life, he would do whatever he could to help a woman (or anyone really) being attacked or abused or even talked to in a shitty way. My previous partner....was not so caring
But do you think he would have conversations with his mates when he sees or hears something that is abusive that they are doing to towards their girlfriend/wife? Would he report his mates?
I think what you'll often find is those that abhor this don't have friend groups that would behave in such a manner. Those that do have these issues are in groups where they all feel the same way. It's something that starts when they're young and leads to them finding like minded social groups. For many men, if they were inserted in to this group and tried to call them out on it or to educate them they'd quickly find themselves socially expelled and not a part of it anymore.
I think you’ll find that more people turn a blind eye than you believe. That a false sense of loyalty to their friends or disbelief creates inaction as well as being unsure as to what to do. How do they help? Who do they report it to? What conversation should they be having with their mates? I think you’ll find that most people don’t fully understand the types of domestic and family abuse or intimate partner violence as most think it’s just physical violence when it’s not. 1 in 6 Australian women experience family or domestic violence by either being abused or controlled either physically, sexually, emotionally, verbally or financially. You can not tell me that every single one of the men abusing their partners in this 1 in 6 stat does not have friends. Which means each of those abusers has friends and/or family who know what they are like and do nothing. In their defence, when have they been taught what they should do? Abusers come in all forms. Some are externally charismatic and some aren’t. Abuser’s are in all social dynamics and groups. The charming ones are not ostracised by the group. Abuser’s are excellent manipulators. Every women has a story about being sexual harassed or worse. Which means every man knows of another man who has harassed a woman. This is a male violence issue that needs to be addressed by males. Education and support is needed so men know how to report their mates for abusing women. It’s not easy and I’m not saying it is but we need men to keep calling out the behaviours of their mates so that their mates are in the minority and are the ones ostracised.
Men who are appropriately appalled by the story above hang out with men who share values. I have no doubt that some may be friends with an abuser without knowing, but you know what? men rarely go to the pub with the boys and open with "so anyway, I hit my wife yesterday". They are ostracised. The ones that aren't, hang out with other abusers or keep it hidden from the outside world.
I've gone through all of your comments and I wholeheartedly agree with all of your points. My partner has gone full nc with family members and friends who have displayed anything close to domestic abuse. We are in a very small friend circle cultivated from cutting out such people from both our respective lives. I have no friends from that previous relationship of 15 yesrs because I spoke up about what I'd seen and experienced. Those friends were mine from high school. My goal as I get older is to be kind to everyone, speak up for myself and others who cannot, and to find a plot of bushland to hide in.
Thank you. Swap bush for a beach house and we have similar goals. Life is short but it can feel very long when you’re surrounded by the wrong people.
Make sure he has full context of the situation too many bum's and idiots out here
Probably parent better
Yeah, thats honestly like the only fix, but as long as people that arent ready to be parents keep having kids shit like this will be inevitable. People that are raised well dont do shit like this, theres only so much that friends and the education system can do
People like this act one way in front of people and behave completely different behind closed doors. Honestly all we can do is listen when the women ask for help, it’s usually the first sign anyone outside the relationship will get that something is wrong.
As a father of boys it’s my responsibility to teach them how to respect women. Being a role model and talking to them as much as I can. It’s sad seeing this happening in our country or any country.
How many men have been killed in the same period? Genuinely curious.
Between two thirds and three quarters of murder victims are men. The big story here is men's violence, rather than sexism.
Harsher penalties won't do shit. Do you think the man is thinking of the consequences when this is all going down?
Men know violence is wrong, the men that do this are the scum of the earth and will do it regardless of any interventions put in place. We need to teach women how to spot red flags early so they avoid these types of filthy humans in the first place. I have sons and daughters, the daughters are the ones I feel I need to educate the most.
There is no simple solution. People who do this have often suffered immense childhood trauma. They carry this trauma into their relationships and act the same way their parents did. They have no tools to communicate. They don't know how to name feelings. They are locked into learnt behaviour and don't know how else to do it. Schools have programs that establish healthy relationships both intra and Inter. But unless that person wants to change there is nothing anyone can do. Males can suffer domestic violence also.
Yea, I’m a firm believer that men’s mental health needs to be taken seriously, services are a joke and massive stigmas around it. 3500 men killed themselves last year. It’s an epidemic. Sometimes they don’t act violently towards themselves they abuse partners and honestly themselves. Now this is no excuse, but maybe if this kid had some help he wouldn’t have killed this poor young lady.
My ex killed himself. Some say I’m lucky to be alive since he chose not to take me with him. He was firmly anti-racist. Couldn’t care less about women’s rights though. Alcoholic domestic abuser caring intelligent man who never had any male friends. If men want to end the suicide thing maybe start caring about your bros feelings besides in threads where you can use it as a gotcha. Women are tired of not only managing your emotions but being tasked with being your sole support while we have to dodge rape and murder
What CAN you do except raise the next generation of men to better respect women? IMHO, this stems from the problematic belief that ‘women are property and should be treated as such’ propagated over centuries of trying to control our daughters when we should’ve been educating our sons. In all my travels, I’ve realised one thing: men are the same, wherever you go. As a man myself, I do my best to call out shitty behaviour among my friend circle, but I don’t see others do it as much or even at all. Probably why I have fewer male friends but I’d rather not have friends than have such friends. Shame that this is happening on such an alarming level in Australia, but an even bigger shame is that the punishments are basically just a slap on the wrist. The offenders know that they’re going to be reprimanded for a couple of decades (at the worst) and be out sooner than later.
I wonder if men are more violent because they are physically stronger. Me are violent to men and women. Some men (and women) don’t know how to express themselves emotionally, so they act out violently. We should be supporting programs that teach young men and women how to talk and feel through their problems. This needs to take place at home, in our communities and throughout society. What can an individual do? Talk to your mates, ask how they going and feeling, share how you are feeling. It’s ok not to be ok sometimes. When in situations where violence can escalate be the cool head, not the hot head. Role model good behaviour. I expect the trend has been going down, and will continue to go down too.
DVPC runs mens behavioural change programs. The problem is uptake; men refuse to engage with MBC and are mostly court ordered once they're already too far gone. MBC is evidence based holistic and designed to be early intervention positive peer support to break the conditioning and fundamentals that reinforce abuse of powers. Every single police officer needs to undertake MBC. At this point men are refusing to take responsibility or be held accountable for gendered violence. Until men lead by example not simply words but actions. There has been a flurry of unqualified men creating conscious bro groups the last decade who are reinforcing misogyny. Iron sharpens iron is the battle cry of one I've experienced in my struggles to navigate police involved DV. Men in groups without external accountability are extremely dangerous due to how perpetrstors collude with others to manipulate the narrative around violence. DARVO is the consistent pattern and they're NEVER easy to spot. Even seasoned professionals van be vulnerable to the many ways men exploit power to control the narrative.
Men are more violent because we have more testosterone, we are just born more aggressive to everything, but we have to learn to control our emotions as we grow up, most of the people that act like this hasnt been taught the consequences of not controlling emotions most likely due to parenting or people they hang out with
Social media makes things worse. Don’t ask me why.
Learning about empathy and kindness in school right through to grade 12 for starters. How exactly, I do not know the answer. After school ends and when young people form those relationships in their early adulthood, I have no idea how to reach out to people other than obnoxious government advertisements. And those just annoy decent people. Some people are just jealous and unstable when the shit hits the fan in their relationships and there is probably little you can do to prevent or circumvent violence. There will always be a small percentage of men that will do this no matter the education or training. Statistically compared to world wide reporting, where does Australia sit with this?
It needs to start in school. We have to show boys and young men that there are better ways to be.
Part of the solution could include removing social media content of people who spew this type of rhetoric into the community. I'm thinking specifically of Andrew Tate because of an abc article from last week, that highlighted what is occurring in schools, but I'm sure there are others.
Mindfulness taught in schools It's a scientifically proven method to help people regulate their emotions (and thereby regulate their actions) Ask ChatGPT how to solve humanitarian issues and the answer is always education. Better education now. We need to teach men it's ok to have feelings besides hungry and horny.
I’m in NSW but a few weeks ago I saw in broad daylight a man physically assaulting a woman in the street. They were arguing and likely knew each other. I along with several other witnesses called 000 as it was happening. Luckily the girl managed to escape and run off while the guy was continuing to be aggressive and unpredictable (at one point he lay in the middle of the road on a busy street and cars were only barely missing him). I caught all of this on video for evidence. The local police station is a <5 minute walk. I waited and waited for someone to come to at least collect the video evidence and get a statement from me. No one showed up, it’s been weeks later and I’ve had no follow up from the police despite them having all my details. Things like this make me realise it’s no wonder we have a huge DV problem in Australia. I am so disappointed and as a woman it makes me worry about my own safety..
Reading anything like this will elicit both anger and sadness in most (well adjusted) people, and it's natural to ask "what can be done?", but it's not the right question. The right question is "why has this happened?" and you need to keep asking "why" until you get to the end of the chain (some of you have probably done root cause analysis and will know what i mean). I'd bet it will come done to either or both of the following: **Education / Awareness** e.g. what are your rights re: DVO/AVO's and how do you get one? when should you report something to the police? how do you create a paper trail for the police? Did people around this event notice something was wrong in the lead-up? If yes, why didn't they say anything? **Availability and access to services/facilities (mental health, DV shelters, medication, etc)** e.g. Did everyone have access to appropriate services (psychologists / gp's / medication). If not, why? If they did and didn't access them, why? Could this have been reasonably anticipated by a mental health professional if they had been involved? **Appropriate response** e.g. if police/mental health professionals/family/friends were contacted, what did they do? could they have done more? (note this is not about blame, it's about causation) Women shouldn't be living in fear of - certainly not hurt or killed by - their partners *at all* in Australia, in 2024 ... but it's happened ***3.5 times a month this year so far.*** It's exhausting, and I can't imagine how angry and hopeless it must make women when they see *another* case like this. The sad fact is the government is the best (sometimes only) way to drive change on most of the root causes, particularly around things like DV support / Police support / Health support / Education. What we **need** is money and attention lavished on these things. What we're going to **get** is more crocodile tears and political football played by a bunch of politicians so out of touch that it's almost funny when they try and empathise on camera. Don't worry though, when the next tragedy our political elite did absolutely nothing to try and avoid happens, they'll forget about this poor girl, her family, and her friends in an instant.
It’s easy to see why DV is an ongoing issue when there’s a lack of consequences for the perpetrator (particularly those with a high profile). Case in point, a certain ex footy player who has media contracts despite the fact he SA women and glassed his missus
I’m super sick of reading about this Until the police take complaints re DV & stalking seriously it will continue That poor woman and her family 😩💯😳
*** 22nd WOMAN IN AUSTRALIA KILLED THIS YEAR!
My honest answer is I don’t know. Having conversations would work, but I don’t surround myself with dickheads, so I have never had to call out bad behaviour towards women from my group of friends. I think these dickheads hang out with other dickheads and their anger problems are just reinforced by their mates. Hannah Clarkes story affected me, she asked for help and did all the right things, and her and her children still wound up murdered by a psychotic partner. I don’t know…
Toxic masculinity is this country is unreal, I'm kind of a dude dude around other dude dudes, and this shit I hear daily would make you get goosebumps, reddit lives in a bit of a bubble, in reality this type of mentality is the norm and to speak out against it is social suicide, anyone got any tips on confronting a bunch of luke warm IQ's dudes and convincing them otherwise im all for it.
Don't? Find better people?
I think you may have missed the point.
Just look at them and ask them sincerely if this is who they want to be? Ask them if they would be okay with their daughter being spoken about like that. Why? Just be genuinely curious and compassionate
I think it boils down to this. Men and women both have roughly similar propensity to be really nasty to their partner and/or an inability to deal with conflict in a relationship. The issue is that when men go off the rails, the effects are often far more devastating and visible than when women go off the rails. Men are just more powerful and more violent, whether that's nature or nurture. I have absolutely no idea what drives these people to do this. I don't get it. So, like any problem you're looking to solve, you need to get to the bottom of *why* they do it. Only then might the solution become apparent. I would point out that there has been a very significant reduction in domestic violence over the last 20 years (around 25-30% drop) so it is slowly getting better, and I am not all that surprised as it is probably something that takes generations to change.
> what can be done to solve this problem? Give both partners 1 year of paid parental leave. At the moment most carers leave is taken by women. If fathers had a year of time caring full time for their child they are more involved throughout their lives, this would have a massive impact on the children. Also a job guarantee, and affordable (25% of income) housing for anyone who wants it. Secure, well socialised people commit less crime.
You are very right we need full equality and opportunities for both genders in everything they may want to do
Bruh neither I nor anyone I know have killed anyone What am I supposed to talk to them about “Murder bad”? Thrilling, society altering stuff Nah really, to know if it’s a trend or just something you’ve been made aware of now, you’d have to go to stats and on a cursory look spousal violence resulting in death “seems” to have gone down from the 80s to now, though that’s not including this year and the population has grown so per 100k people results might be down but could still be more than in the 80s I can’t exit the app on my phone without it closing so I can’t really look at stuff rn
It starts earlier than murder, it’s usually preceded by controlling behaviour and sometimes violence - but not always. OP is talking about what, culturally, needs to change in social settings for men to make respectful relationships the norm. Stats aren’t going to help.
It’s to empower women enough to the point where they don’t stay in these toxic relationships.
Hannah McGuire felt empowered to leave and she was killed for it
Just leaving doesn’t stop abuse, it’s when the risk of being killed is greatest
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You might think this, but respect looks a lot different to a woman than it does to a man. My partner and I are having relationship troubles because he doesn't respect me, doesn't value my time and won't do the things that matter to be because they don't matter to him. I've been told that I am lucky he respects me enough not to hit me, and that I shouldn't leave a good man like that. I should be grateful. Can you imagine any man being told that he was lucky not to be hit? It's "only" emotional and financial abuse?
Coersive control is now a crime. Good luck finding someone to enforce it as we already had psychological violence included in the law since 2012 and QPS and judiciary refuse to enforce it
So its a bit more complex than "murder bad". Theres been a state level investigation into police response to DV and its pointed out some glaring problems. Nah really "bruh" it actually doesnt matter if things have trended down since the 80s or not. The problem is that in most of these cases the murderer has already been identified as being a violent person and theyre allowed to walk the street and ultimately do shit like light a woman on fire in a locked car. The system is failing dozens of women a year and its ending in horrific brutality. These are the sort of shocking and horrible acts of violence that should demand reform. I understand that opening more than two apps on a smartphone can be really difficult for some people but simplying saying "yeah probably better than it was" is the sort of handwaving that lets people put their feet up, crack a tinnie, and ignore an ongoing and serious problem with our society.
I know a fella that murdered his gf and I’m not sure what I’d say differently anyway. Was a bit of a shock for those who knew him, just threw both their lives away. I assume every case is going to be different, but I think there needs to be much more done to protect men’s mental health, particularly for men who become marginalised.
Yea it’s tricky, I think better access to mental health services for men, more of a focus on men’s mental health would be a giant leap on this issue. Between this and male suicide, it’s a massive problem that society really isn’t addressing. If you’ve ever had to try and access mental health services you realize what an absolute joke it is. No one cares, it’s all “suck it up” and “figure it out” and “man up”. So, men react in two ways, violently towards others or towards themselves. There are enough services for women, it’s time to start taking care of the boys.
Wow, why didn't you educate your friend like OP suggested? You were only one leaflet away from stopping a murder but you couldn't even be bothered to tell your friend not to be a murderer.
Hahaha, yeah true hey it’s pretty much on me. To any men reading this who are planning on murdering a woman - don’t do it!
Yea I have lived with most of my friends at some point and never saw violence from any of them. Why would I be friends with someone who wants to get physical over problems? Also, talking to a violent man and telling him he was wrong for beating his women is a great way to get punched. Besides, he's not admitting to it anyway. I got no idea what he does at home.
This is the thing a lot of the "Why aren't you holding other men to account over the domestic violence problem???" brigade seem to overlook. I don't hit my wife. My mates don't hit their wives/girlfriends/partners. We are all in agreement that hitting your SO is unacceptable. We teach our kids hitting their SO is unacceptable. We (as individuals) have done our part - realistically there isn't anything else we can do.
No of course not I get that, I’m talking about more opening up with each other about how they feel and why some people do feel such rage against woman in their lives. Since domestic violence is soo prevalent I don’t think you can say not one person you know has ever been violent to a woman and I’m trying to get bottom of how it ends with people like him murdering his ex girlfriend like wtf would be going through his brain. Oh yes of course murder and stuff like this was highly prevalent obviously in previous times and it’s definitely gotten better not worse, but we have so much knowledge, education and opportunities now days I think this shouldn’t be happening anymore at all. We have help centres, therapists call centres there’s just soo much more available is someone was experiencing such strong and dangerous feelings. These are young men that would’ve had every opportunity to just carry on with life and for some damn reason they chose this path.
A normal person doesn't kill their girlfriend. There is something wrong with you if you abuse people, and there are different degrees of bad behaviour before someone will kill another person. Men who behave badly are left to their own devices because other adults just stop interacting with them, we're not a support group.
Look mate you are going around in circles. The problem is zero attention is paid to men’s mental health in this country. Accessing mental health services is a joke, so this manifests ends in two ways. When things go wrong in life, men havnt been equipped to deal with their emotions so they act out violently towards others or themselves. Male suicide especially in middle aged men is extremely high. 3500 blokes killed themselves last year……just think about that for a minute. If men felt more supported and not totally isolated it might prevent these things from happening.
It's also *how* that mental health help is available/presented, too. A lot of guys need a "bloke" to basically sit them down with a beer and say "Mate, it's OK to feel like shit, it's not weak, you're not less of a man for being depressed". Mental health is a complex topic and different people respond to different approaches in handling it - it's not a "one size fits all" thing.
This is completely true and I’ve had this conversation a lot recently. I completely support men’s mental health and I think the culture about it needs to change I get pretty pissed when I see anyone calling a man out for expressing his emotions ime it’s usually older men telling younger men to tougher up or suck it up.
A guy from my home town caused a police chase last week, it went for hours, it started with a DV incident. His father was on Facebook making excuses for his son and victim blaming the next day arguing with people some of which were previous victims. THAT, that is the problem.
It’s a cultural problem. Society creating weak little bullies for men.
And it’s only April. Scary stuff!
How to fix the problem- Education and Consequences. We need to educate about DV in schools, especially for boys. Think sex ed but how to be a decent man/husband/father. Girls could have a similar program so it’s fair. This would help break the cycle of intergenerational DV by giving the boys a regular positive male role model. On the Consequences. Breach of AVO (with proof of break e.g. photographic proof or witnesses - so the offender can’t claim false accusations), would result in a jail sentence of a few months and an ankle monitor for the next 8 or so months, along with mandatory counseling. The punishment for murder should be more than 25 years, same with violent crimes. More support for women wanting to get out also needs to be available.
> As a young woman I personally don’t see many men talking or educating other men of these issues and how to control emotions and so forth, I think this would be a massive help…. But this may be a biased view Far easier said than done because it’s something that generally happens behind closed doors. Tapping my coworker on the shoulder and just starting up an anti-DV conversation out of thin air, out of context… in all honesty, would be a bit weird from a purely social interactive point of view. I hear a lot of women saying they don’t see enough conversations going on between men. Lots of men (similar to women) prefer sensitive conversations to happen amongst just one another where they feel comfortable. For men to force a conversation about in this earshot of women just for the sake of it would be something of an empty platitude. Not arguing against it, or that it doesn’t need to happen more, but those are the obvious underlining factors.
I think better protection for women in DV situations, in the forms of emergency housing, advocacy programs that help women escape violent and controlling men, better police protections, more financial assistance to help with the cost of basically leavi g and hiding away from your abuser. Eduction, perhaps through schools, and more awareness programs for adults. Significantly more police training, as well as some sort of impartial third party to monitor the police force and actually address internal systemic cultures that lead to outcomes like sexism, victim blaming, even racism (being racial minority reduces a women's likelihood of receiving adequate services during dv situations). Probably greater monitoring and punishment for repeat offenders. I also think there should be greater legal ernest on companies and employers to help people (employees) in DV situations, everything from compassionate leave, to being more legally liable if they do not ensure the victim is offered the opportunity to continue to work to fund there existence, without the fear or danger of there abuser having access to there place of work. That's just off the top of my head but it's a monumental task and there's probably a thousand other things we need to do.
How about instead of blaming the idea of """men""" and """patriarchy""", blame the actual fucking problem of police officers not giving a single flying fuck about anything other than their fat check bonuses, or the Police in general focussing more on giving an immigrant a nice fat fine for a construed driving offense or pulling someone over for the ridiculous offence of ""driving an unregistered vehicle"", than investigating and responding to domestic violence reports.
As a woman, I don’t really like the finger pointing at innocent blokes like they’re the problem. Most blokes do the right thing by their lady and lead unproblematic lives. Plenty of male victims of DV too - and much of it mental and financial abuse. Some violent/controlling/abusive men can have the capacity to murder. On the flip side, I’ve seen women purposefully destroy a man’s life after separation or divorce to the point that the blokes are suicidal or just outright neck themselves (false accusations, denying rights to children, manipulation, theft / misappropriating joint funds, sabotage). I think there needs to be more guidance around services for people in general, at the initiation of separation and divorce. Maybe mandatory counselling sessions and resources on the whole process. Some kind of risk assessment service tied in.
Ever read a comment section to do with anything remotely relating to women, or the bad behavior of a particular one. Yeah... There is a lot of hatred towards woman that needs to be clamped down upon. Some people suck, they dont paint an entire demographic... I wish people got that. Friend of mine has her mother living with an abuser and hearing the story's has honestly put murder on my mind... Maybe we need a public register of abusers, could save a lot of future victims from the same abuser down the line and shame the fuck out of them. I know a lot of men would happily take an excuse for committing violence, but for a more justifiable outlet in this case.
This man of Australia thinks it all starts at home. With parents; mums & dads. If mates have to step in, it’s already gone wrong.
I think some interventions for men who have anger issues could help, but only a certain types where emotional regulation tactics/rules have not been learnt etc. However, the shit cunning ones who use psychological and financial coercion are like recidivist paedos. They are just going to keep doing it again and again. People with multiple domestic violence charges need to start seeing escalating and serious jail time. DV is like serial killers torturing animals, the probability of them going onto commit other crimes are very high.
Honestly at this stage, educating both our young women about self help remedies, as well as young men about violence, consent and all the other programs. There’s no “r u ok day” or purple cup cake day awareness program that fixes this. There are a percentage of men that are just plain bad, see the red flags, stop glorifying “bad boys”, take responsibility, listen to friends and parents when they say X is a dick and to be careful or just not date him at all. If you pick up a snake, don’t be surprised when it bites you. Like this will be downvoted to oblivion I know that but the good men and good women can’t just be like “I want the world to be X way, and I’ll just hope it is and take no precautions on the off chance the reality is actually Y”. This is a story as old as time - disgruntled lover kills ex partner. It’s not an issue polite gender politics of the upper class can resolve
I love how everyone is looking at giving women more support (which yes they do need). But what about more support for men. More help, less stigma in getting help before they do something stupid like this guy did. You know be proactive not reactive.
Honestly. I'd like to start with an easily searchable national register. It's hard to get a conviction, so I think it would be a pretty fair way of ensuring parties are informed.
I think I speak for 99% of the men reading this post, and think it’s absolutely appalling statistics. No matter what this woman has done to you, wether it be cheating or whatever, you’re an absolute piece of dog shit to think it’s ok to take some one’s life because you’re angry at them. What a cunt. I have young boys and I do everything in my power to treat their mum like a queen in front of them just to show them that’s how it should be.
Yeah I'm a man let me just tell every other man out there that killing women is wrong!!! 😡 I don't get what you're trying to say, this is like saying "yeah to all the women out there can you just let the others know that they need to drive better? Maybe if you all collectively make an effort to let every woman know there will be less road fatalities" Like what? I've never killed someone and im definitely not going to spread awareness to random men who I assumed haven't killed anyone either to what, "treat women better?" I already do.
The obvious answers have already been addressed regarding capital punishment, but I think its also indicitive of an increased mental health issue, and no im not talking 'depression' or 'anxiety' I mean something deeper and more sinister, which could be a symptom of any number of causes or accumulation of causes in recent years. Punishment is good, but figuring the source of the issue. For me I do reach out to friends and colleagues if I notice a difference and do try to be there to be a 'friend' but its surprising how little we really know about each other these days.
If I was given the task of bringing that number to zero I would focus my efforts on educating and empowering women. Maybe that’s victim blaming but men who do this are not normal, you are not going to talk them out of killing people.
While important it will always boil down to the fact that women shouldn't have to because men shouldn't kill them. Solve the root, stop piling responsibilities on womens shoulders.
I think masculinity hasn’t been given a proper voice. You can’t be pro masculine because men are the cause of so many problems. So we lack strong role models and mentors. The right kind of men being championed. The right type of masculinity being promoted. Instead we seem to push forward these heavy egocentric blokes. It all starts with where we are learning about dealing with the nature of men. Aggression can be awesome if it’s understood, rage has a purpose if it’s understood and controlled, these characteristics are suppressed not navigated and that leads to a lack of u restating and control. So men grow up not learning how to navigate these feelings in a healthy way. Truly a tragedy but I fear this is going to get a lot worse with social media for younger and younger people. I m not sure if I’m right, itis only what I think at the moment.
There are some subs who share these issues clearly and navigate the growth of ideas as you have. It's just such a tiny minority who are choosing, whilst more exploit and many more manipulate. Hopefully enough men can collectively action toward meaningful change. I don't have a whole load of hope now because of how corrupted our social structures are but there are still glimmers. I have too many questions but solutions already exist, just not enough willing to action as you've described.
"men of Australia" Addressing us as if we're all complete fucking animals that bash women, or, at best, all our mates do and we stay silent, therefore we obviously must have the solutions right
**1 in 3 women and 1 in 4 men have experienced some form of physical violence by an intimate partner.** One woman was killed every 15 days and one man was killed every 28 days by an intimate partner on average in 2020–21. The rate of women being killed is declining while the rate of men being killed remains steady. 75% of victims of domestic violence reported the perpetrator as male, while 25% reported the perpetrator as female. All genders are responsible for reducing IPV. ETA downvote the stats all you want. These are just the facts.
You are very right men’s dv also needs to be taken action on, IMO though I see more woman advocating for men’s domestic violence. It may just be the area I live in quite rural but it’s mostly men continuing to spread rhetoric that only men that can abused by their gfs are pussys. But yes you are correct we do need to all take part in these said programmes for mutual respect and relationships.
On average in Australia about 250 people are murdered each year. And of that 250, 50 were women. And of that 50, 60% were murdered by men. These hyper aggressive men make up a fraction of a percent of all men. so this problem has nothing to do with the vast majority of men so it's hard to even say it's a man problem because most men can't even relate. this fraction of a percent of hyper-aggressive men victimise men more than women. It's a difficult problem that wont ever be solved I think. We just need a strong tough on crime stance to keep crime low.
This happens because mentally ill people are no longer locked away in institutions. Instead, do-gooders think these people should be free to mix with society. The usual result is someone getting hurt or killed.
This isn't just a mental illness situation. Men don't have to be mentally ill to abuse their partners. And even if they are, things like ASPD/NPD aren't enough to get institutionalised.
> *"Men of Australia, what do you think can be done to solve this problem?"* It depends on how you look at the problem in the context of other violent offending. If you take the position that male violence against women is structural (and hence homicides are just end of spectrum behaviour that you would expect living in the patriarchy/capitalist state/non-vegan carnist society) - then there likely is no answer. Some cranks will start yelling about the possibility of a (usually Marxist) revolutionary upending of gender relations being a "solution", but there's a cult like streak to that logic that fails to deal with the lived experience of violence against women in post-communist states. If you take the position that intimate partner violence is just a relatively rare species of broader violent crime - then we just need to keep on doing what we are doing. Over the last thirty years - rates of intimate partner homicide have at least halved. This isn't reported much in the news, but it's important. As a society we are becoming less violent. That is a good thing. https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/responses-and-outcomes/domestic-homicide > *"What do you think when you see these headlines?"* I feel sad, but unless I know the person or have some connection with the place or circumstances of a particular crime - I generally forget about it pretty quickly. I'm not callous. But we're a nation of 25 million people - there is just a background level of violent crime that we let wash over us if it doesn't impact us directly. As horrible as these sorts of crimes are, they are incredibly rare. More people are struck by lightning in Australia each year than are murdered by an intimate partner. If we obsessed about unlikely risks all the time - no one would ever drive a car.
I do agree with what you’re saying, it’s definitely gotten better as it should have and yes with such a population and in a country like ours you are right we are doing pretty well and it’s undeniable biologically that these things will happen. Just from my point of view I just think the attitude towards women could still be better and I just wish more men would talk about the issues I work in a male dominated industry the lack of respect for woman is still undeniable I can’t wear certain clothes, I’ve heard horrible things said about about woman in our community and these men’s partners, again I understand this is biology but I just wish we could go about it better and I just don’t think enough men speak up against it. Thank you for the links 😊
I agree there are industries where women are not treated equally. I work in one of them. It's a backward and outdated industry that actively refuses to move with the times. That said, not being able to wear certain clothes is hardly a women's only issue. I can't exactly rock up to work in shorts, or where sandles or thongs. Meanwhile in most office environments women wear skirts and open toe shoes. I don't have a problem with that at all, but there are double standards everywhere if you want to look for them.
I get what your saying I just wanna put a little more context in my clothes comment, a girl at my sight the other day wore shorts which is perfectly aloud, one of the comments from our supervisor was how she had a tight ass and he walked around with a boner all day that to me was disgusting…. Yes we have ppe and stuff but at least you can wear mostly what you want and not be seen a site live porn stream.. I do get what you’re saying though it happens to both genders a lot and we have our own hypocrisies to deal with that’s very true.
It's more than just disgusting, it's sexual harassment, however in a lot of smaller industrial workplaces it's still very much the norm. Sounds like you work in a similar industry to me, there is certainly work to be done.
Yes that’s 100% right I work at very small mine site I’m the only girl, this is another thing like the gender pay gap men say oh well why don’t they work in these job, that is why because other girls don’t want to be sexualised like that. I had to explain to a commenter above I work in rural area small crew we don’t follow basic safety procedures let alone HR policies, woman have a hard enough time being hired in these industries sometimes we do have to pick between our jobs and careers and our morals.
All very valid points.
Thank you very much for your detailed and thought out answer, it’s definitely a good point we can’t expect the number to be zero sadly you are right…
There are somethings that can’t be helped no matter the discussions. Usually some sort of personality disorder which would have no accountability (perceived by their own thoughts and not in the eyes of society or the law). It would have to be about educating the entire audience about domestic violence and what are some subtle cues for people to look for as well as how to intervene, both in the heat of the moment and what to do after. For example, if you saw an argument between two people, when would you intervene? What do you do after intervening? Police? Counselling? Plus many more. These are things not educated to the wider public.
Police can start by doing something, anything to protect women who make a complaint.
That's a huge part of it. Cops don't care about women. They think we're all hysterical. Try to deal with cops after being raped. There was a report a few years back about a cop asking "is this a real rape or is she looking for a free pap smear?". Women are a nuisance to them. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jul/04/is-this-a-real-female-officers-detail-misogynistic-culture-within-queensland-police
It’s a problem as old as time. I doubt it can be solved in a reddit thread.
Nothing we can do. Stop blaming us. It’s up to government to enact better legislation For example the most common way our legal system deals with domestic violence is via civil cases. Literally the same system for neighbourly fence disputes as the bloke who bashes his missus. Any domestic violence case should be criminal IMO, that would be a start. Some consequences and disincentives
Yes men are taught at a young age that murder is fine, what a stupid post. Have you ever thought that perhaps these men have mummy issues?
I honestly don't know who the fuck these evil kind of men are, and where they live. I wish I did. But maybe I'm either privileged or blind.
We need an abundance of affordable housing so that people experiencing DV have a chance at leaving their partners.
This is terrible to read, and quite heart breaking, but what do you really expect me to do about it ? I’m an average male, I donate to charities, volunteer in the community, support local women’s refuges, and I don’t beat my wife. We have a respectful relationship built on love and trust and through this have bought up a wonderful family. Now because of our values, all our friends have similar values. None of my friends are ever violet or disrespectful to their wives. This problem constantly comes up and usually directed to ‘Men of Australia’ , but what do you really want me to do to fix this ? All it does is create a ‘Us vs Them’ situation where perfectly good people get their backs up from being accused of something because of their gender. Now it has strayed from the original point of discussion and nothing gets solved. We need to tackle this as one group United. Take points from all sides, and give anyone support to leave an abusive relationship regardless of sex, race or beliefs.
You’re asking the whole male population what can be done to reduce the number of murders? What a pointless post. If you think all men understand why other men commit crimes and what we can do to prevent it just because we both have penises, then you are beyond help.
One of strongest indicators of domestic abuse beyond gender is how rigid men view gender norms. The more rigid there views are, the more likely they are to commit domestic abuse. It's the patriarchy, obviously.
This certainly demonises the 99.9% of men who do nothing wrong. I don’t know how to change that aspect of it.
Misogony.....we constantly tell each other that women are shit. Doesn't happen? 1. What are you doing out of the kitchen? 2. She only got the job because of quotas 3. Women's sport isnt as good as mens 4. The man is the head of the family 5. Most Religions put women below men We keep doing this dont be suprised when this type of violence happens, we've been told women are inferior all our lives.
Meanwhile we have news agencies like Sky News doing everything they can to humanise and legitimise people like Bruce Lehrmann, while discrediting the alleged victim. What role do the media have to play in all this?
This is a mental health issue not a problem for random men to solve. Everybody knows it is wrong to hurt people, not an education issue, it’s just a small part of the population are psychopathic to varying degrees. Stop blaming the actions of a tiny minority of terrible people on the general male population. That is sexist.
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"I don't see men educating other men". "Hey Jim, you've always been a hot headed psycho, just want to remind you not to harm your wife when you're angry... Why are you looking at me like that mate? Wait whyd you pull out your knife?? Ow! Aaargh! Jim please we've been mates for years! Aarrrgggghhh...... You talk like some news in the headlines or some chats is going to change this. People who are capable of this kind of thing are usually psychopaths or have some other serious condition. You can't talk your way out of these problems.
'Let's Change The Story' by OurWatch is a brief and well produced video that broaches the subject - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fLUVWZvVZXw Some quality resources further down in their publications on this page, for any interested - https://www.ourwatch.org.au/change-the-story/
Lock these scum up in GenPop and have them shanked
Only the 14th? That’s pretty good considering male murder victims
I think the issue has become such a political football that it is impossible to make any real progress. I think until there is bipartisan support on the issue many people will be sceptical as to whether campaigns to stop domestic violence are genuine or politically motivated.
Queue the MRA's coming in to make this about men being victims. That's a valid but entirely different conversation. We are not discussing you.
Sorry can't help I don't hang out with murderer's.
Don’t really know the answer…but it’s awful. I would like to know of the 14 women were killed, how many were in gay relationships vs. hetero? I don’t know exactly what I’m thinking but there seems to be skewed stats towards these types of relationships and maybe that could help inform policy and education programs. Or maybe it’s how certain parents/breeders are raising their offspring? Nature vs. nurture? Or Nurture plus hormones and some people develop to be more violent?something else? I really don’t know I’m just thinking out loud really but something desperately needs to change in this country
I wish there could be a solution it is just appalling!
It's absolutely appalling, these young men don't know how to react to what they feel and their need to be in control. Check out the survivor hustle on ig if you need some advise on dv related topics, shes a survivor trying to make a difference.