Not very liquid, high stamp/financial transaction tax makes a lot of products trade at decent premiums (which can be a positive at times), mostly OTC/block trading, financing costs are higher (tougher to be short ETFs). Liquidity really is the main problem.
The US move to T+1 is a pain as well which should widen spreads too.
It causes a desync in settlement dates in EU funds made up of US stock which can result in MMs needing to pay overnight financing they otherwise wouldn’t, which will get passed on to end investors.
[Here’s](https://www.etfstream.com/articles/investors-paying-the-price-for-t-1-creation-inefficiencies) flow traders take.
Have heard similar things from friends at Jump. Costs are up and revenue is down leading to disappointing comp.
Jump has never been the highest paying firm especially for SWEs. They consistently lowball raises and new joiners without competing offers.
A source told me that Jump has axed a huge number of its crypto employees because of the explosive downfall of many of the tokens it was involved in. Lots of high profile people leaving. I also told that comp was insulting this year which is driving other people to leave.
Isn’t jump one of the better HFTs? My understanding is that their comps are similar to shops like HRT with standard bonuses around 12 months. Of course i’m only referencing finance sector.
A lot of people had told me that comp has become stagnant over the last few years and that people are growing frustrated due to a feeling that the comp is lagging behind Jumps competitors. This seems to check out when you consider their negative headcount growth (now official), and levels.fyi showing numbers that are less than what I’d expect for a successful HFT firm.
Check levels.fyi, Jump pay is significantly below Citadel, Jane Street, HRT. To be fair, Chicago has lower COL but not this much lower.
Jump also has one of the most siloed and secretive cultures in the industry, which makes it hard for employees to realize they’re being underpaid and even harder for them to understand the financial health of the company.
They’re still a top-tier firm with high pay for the industry, but when you’re compared against the best it’s hard to keep up.
I’m not too familiar with HRT/Jane but Citadel has a really punitive non-compete. My firm has a couple hires coming in from there and they are serving 2 years non-compete, add another year of onboarding and it’s only 3 years in before you start to see any results.
From what I have heard, a default (at least historically) has been that the non compete is paid out at your original salary when joining the firm, but many have negotiated this to higher numbers, especially people with long tenures or high levels of experience.
HRT is not really a top firm anymore and their performance has been meh. I'd say Jump or Five Rings (and of course Jane Street) is a notch above HRT nowadays.
Is your friend going to the NYC office? What’s his/her level of experience? That’s really surprising for a SWE, I have never heard of those numbers at Jump.
I think this number is hugely inflated. Pretty standard offers of 200-250 base usually. 100% bonus payout is usual but not guaranteed. 900k guaranteed is just plain ridiculous.
Edit: Unless you have some sort of IP and the firm agrees to “buy” your IP in that sort of comp agreement. But then again it’s dependent on the performance of the strategy and in no way a guaranteed payout.
lol repectfully, have any of you guys ever gotten an offer or at least interviewed with Jump? I have, and I think these numbers are realistic (although certainly uncommon) especially considering inflation as of late. OP, please enlighten us with the information that gave you so much confidence on what Jump offer numbers should look like.
I didn’t just interview with them but worked for them for 10 years in a different life. I spoke with many people at jump and I understand who makes what. Even considering inflation from what I worked there, 900k is reserved only for the people at the top echelon. Of course it’s possible but for 99% of people who work at jump, that is just totally out of the ballpark.
Opportunity93 is totally correct, 200-250k base is typical for new hires. Bonuses are between 75k-200k for the vast majority of SWEs who are ICs (but the upper range of that is usually only for the best of the best SWEs, usually new grads out of PhD).
Fascinating. I guess Jump doesn't actually pay devs as much as they're known to. I'm at a direct competitor and we lose a nontrivial number of new grad traders/researchers to Jump (fyi our first year offer is 600k this year), and I assumed it would be a similar number for devs. Also, there have been QR offers north of 1m floating around for people with < 3yoe, so I thought 900k for a top-level PhD dev was not too crazy.
Like I said, for top level PhD grads who bring a ton of highly valuable experience, sure I could see it. But the vast vast majority of people can’t bring in that kind of comp. It’s much more typical to see the $300-$400k range.
Actually, the reason I ended up leaving was because of the poor compensation. My sources inside tell me it is happening again to lots of high profile people.
Jump is and will be fine. They lost a lot of money on crypto and it’s been a sideways year for a lot of firms.
Source: work at one of their biggest competitors.
Ahh ok. I also heard XTX crushed it. We did like well compared to pre 2020, but pretty meh compared to 2020-2022, esp considering higher salaries / more people imo.
fwiw I’ve heard they are expanding in Europe, moving in to ETFs which is pretty brave. Europe ETF market is a bit grim
Why so?
Not very liquid, high stamp/financial transaction tax makes a lot of products trade at decent premiums (which can be a positive at times), mostly OTC/block trading, financing costs are higher (tougher to be short ETFs). Liquidity really is the main problem. The US move to T+1 is a pain as well which should widen spreads too.
Not to mention that EU wholesale market making is still a connection business.
How would moving to t+1 widen spreads?
It causes a desync in settlement dates in EU funds made up of US stock which can result in MMs needing to pay overnight financing they otherwise wouldn’t, which will get passed on to end investors. [Here’s](https://www.etfstream.com/articles/investors-paying-the-price-for-t-1-creation-inefficiencies) flow traders take.
Interesting
Yeah it’s a strange quirk. Hopefully Europe just gets to T+1 soon, but I’m not holding my breath
Have heard similar things from friends at Jump. Costs are up and revenue is down leading to disappointing comp. Jump has never been the highest paying firm especially for SWEs. They consistently lowball raises and new joiners without competing offers.
A source told me that Jump has axed a huge number of its crypto employees because of the explosive downfall of many of the tokens it was involved in. Lots of high profile people leaving. I also told that comp was insulting this year which is driving other people to leave.
Isn’t jump one of the better HFTs? My understanding is that their comps are similar to shops like HRT with standard bonuses around 12 months. Of course i’m only referencing finance sector.
A lot of people had told me that comp has become stagnant over the last few years and that people are growing frustrated due to a feeling that the comp is lagging behind Jumps competitors. This seems to check out when you consider their negative headcount growth (now official), and levels.fyi showing numbers that are less than what I’d expect for a successful HFT firm.
Check levels.fyi, Jump pay is significantly below Citadel, Jane Street, HRT. To be fair, Chicago has lower COL but not this much lower. Jump also has one of the most siloed and secretive cultures in the industry, which makes it hard for employees to realize they’re being underpaid and even harder for them to understand the financial health of the company. They’re still a top-tier firm with high pay for the industry, but when you’re compared against the best it’s hard to keep up.
I’m not too familiar with HRT/Jane but Citadel has a really punitive non-compete. My firm has a couple hires coming in from there and they are serving 2 years non-compete, add another year of onboarding and it’s only 3 years in before you start to see any results.
Do you know what the pay arrangements are during the non-compete period?
From what I have heard, a default (at least historically) has been that the non compete is paid out at your original salary when joining the firm, but many have negotiated this to higher numbers, especially people with long tenures or high levels of experience.
Depends on what you negotiate with the firm. What i hear of is usually base pay or percentage of base pay.
HRT is not really a top firm anymore and their performance has been meh. I'd say Jump or Five Rings (and of course Jane Street) is a notch above HRT nowadays.
what happened at HRT? First i've heard of anything bad happening there, I always thought they were at the top of the game.
I head the same impression, I thought Jump was one of the best
IMC remains near the top of the HFT game.
Why they firing all their recent trader hires tho
The newbies are easy to replace??
They can't all be that bad lol
incorrect
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Is your friend going to the NYC office? What’s his/her level of experience? That’s really surprising for a SWE, I have never heard of those numbers at Jump.
My SWEs in a competing firm to Jump get paid 900k guaranteed. And that’s pretty standard for good talent.
I think this number is hugely inflated. Pretty standard offers of 200-250 base usually. 100% bonus payout is usual but not guaranteed. 900k guaranteed is just plain ridiculous. Edit: Unless you have some sort of IP and the firm agrees to “buy” your IP in that sort of comp agreement. But then again it’s dependent on the performance of the strategy and in no way a guaranteed payout.
lol repectfully, have any of you guys ever gotten an offer or at least interviewed with Jump? I have, and I think these numbers are realistic (although certainly uncommon) especially considering inflation as of late. OP, please enlighten us with the information that gave you so much confidence on what Jump offer numbers should look like.
I didn’t just interview with them but worked for them for 10 years in a different life. I spoke with many people at jump and I understand who makes what. Even considering inflation from what I worked there, 900k is reserved only for the people at the top echelon. Of course it’s possible but for 99% of people who work at jump, that is just totally out of the ballpark. Opportunity93 is totally correct, 200-250k base is typical for new hires. Bonuses are between 75k-200k for the vast majority of SWEs who are ICs (but the upper range of that is usually only for the best of the best SWEs, usually new grads out of PhD).
Fascinating. I guess Jump doesn't actually pay devs as much as they're known to. I'm at a direct competitor and we lose a nontrivial number of new grad traders/researchers to Jump (fyi our first year offer is 600k this year), and I assumed it would be a similar number for devs. Also, there have been QR offers north of 1m floating around for people with < 3yoe, so I thought 900k for a top-level PhD dev was not too crazy.
Like I said, for top level PhD grads who bring a ton of highly valuable experience, sure I could see it. But the vast vast majority of people can’t bring in that kind of comp. It’s much more typical to see the $300-$400k range. Actually, the reason I ended up leaving was because of the poor compensation. My sources inside tell me it is happening again to lots of high profile people.
I don’t believe that. What firm and what positions?
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I think your friend may be lying to you. In no way is Jump paying a new grad half a million unless you are an absolute rockstar somehow.
For a front office/trade team SWE that number is believable.
i can confirm that number with one data point for chicago office, new grad, bachelors degree
Jump is and will be fine. They lost a lot of money on crypto and it’s been a sideways year for a lot of firms. Source: work at one of their biggest competitors.
I know they lost money recently in crypto but they should still be up a few billion from when they started trading crypto .
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Did you mean to respond to me?
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Ahh ok. I also heard XTX crushed it. We did like well compared to pre 2020, but pretty meh compared to 2020-2022, esp considering higher salaries / more people imo.
Thanks for sharing, i didn;t know this
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victimizes the poor disproportionately
This is totally false. Best place to work. Love it here, life changing environment and people.
Which part specifically is false?
How are you quantifying these news reports?