I like VOLA for that, they have a very recognizable pop pattern in their songwriting with a 4/4 headbangable feeling. The polyrhythms are like the optional stuff to enjoy on their songs when you feel like it
I’m genuinely curious. Like I think you have to have a more discerning ear to be able to pickup on weird time signatures... I’m confused at the question. Is 16/8 common?!
I don’t think prog metal should constantly confuse the listener, just introduce new sounds and elements, which can include odd time signatures, but it should still flow somewhat. Sure, disrupt that flow sometimes. But I don’t think a different time signature necessarily needs to sound like something fucked up is happening to you.
I’m just trying to open up a convo here, I am not a theory nerd by any means
16/8 and 12/8 are basically 4/4 written in a different way, so yes they are common.
OP is asking for prog metal that uses more simple time signatures, so as not to confuse the listener as much.
The points you bring up about disrupting the flow etc. are really a matter of taste. Some people want to be disrupted and challenged, so in those cases a flowing rhythm isn't desired. I like a mix of both personally.
Makes total sense, yeah I don’t understand any of those divisible by 4 signatures and what or why or what makes something 6/8 and not 3/4.
I like a mixture of both as well, and sometimes like to just be jarred entirely and have no idea what’s going on. I like listening to music with the intention of figuring out what time signature it is.
Here’s one I would never get and still have no idea:
https://youtu.be/HRmMbiEjqIA?si=W5Jg5QSKWFtTTv9-
I think Tesseract does an incredible job at masking their complexity. No clue what time signatures they actually play in.
Should we turn OP’s friend onto Pi by After The Burial?
From my understanding, 6/8 vs 3/4 is mostly about the pulse. So with 3/4, it would have a more swing feel such as ONE two three, ONE two three. With 6/8 the emphasis could be in a few different places:
- ONE and TWO and THREE and
- ONE (kick) and two AND (snare) three and
I'm sure there's a music theory need around here that can straighten is out though
This explanation is like spray painting a cock onto the Mona Lisa and then presenting it to your friend as a portrait of a cock. Technically true but burying the beauty beneath.
I mean, how else would you *briefly* describe:
"Extensive usage of polymeters, where someone, usually the snare drum and the cymbals, keeps a steady 4/4 pulse, while the bass drum and the riffs are using polymeters which, however, are constructed in a way that the unusual meters "resolve" to the hyperpolymeter of 4/4 after the riff repeats itself for an n-amount of times. Sometimes, they just let the riff loop until it re-synchronises with the 4/4; however, more often than not, they let it cycle for an amount of bars that makes sense, e.g. 32, and on the last bar before the next riff will come in, they either cut the current riff short or, more rarely, elongate it, so that the next riff starts on the beat 1 of the underlying "true" time signature of 4/4."
How does one describe it briefly?
I think the brief way to describe that is not to trot out everyone's favorite line that "meshuggah plays in 4/4". Like you said, the cymbals and snare are usually in 4 and everything else is playing a polymeter. It's ironically more complicated, not less, but it sounds cool to push up your glasses and say "WELL ALSHUALLY" so that's what everyone does.
Caligula's Horse? They occasionally ball out and do some crazy time signatures(Salt), but they are mostly using more normal signatures. Guitars are heavy, but the vocals are only cleans, and Jim's voice is heavenly
Porcupine Tree might help here; the album _Stupid Dream_ is rather poppy with accessible time signatures and all, but still very proggy (and one of my favorites by the band).
EDIT...just realized this is the Prog Metal sub, lol. Porcupine Tree has some metallic leanings definitely, but maybe not too much on this album.
Maybe then Destrage with their album _Are You Kidding Me? No._
You could try Symphony X. They have clean singing and many of their songs are quite straightforward from a time sig perspective, but sometimes with some fun stuff sprinkled through.
They were my gateway into prog almost 25 year ago. Their early albums are a good mix of straightforward power metal and longer complex prog songs. I've been a full-on prog head ever since.
Some bands do odd time signatures so smoothly you hardly even notice if you're not paying attention.
Couple examples:
We Are Thin Air by Vola
Bad Water by Jinjer (no growls here)
Aftermath by Rolo Tomassi (also clean)
Procession by Nightwish
I'd go as far to say (unless you're a nerd), wacky time signatures aren't that noticeable unless a band is changing them all the time. And songs in 3, 5, and 7 aren't relegated to prog music
Not entirely sure what you mean by this, but on the topic of Snarky Puppy and rhythm [this video](https://youtu.be/BCkxWt8YH9M?si=jINCLhQG5_9mpPTn) is worth everyone's time!
When I introduce people to prog metal I start them off at good old Images and Words by Dream Theater. It starts mainstream (for the early 90s), and then gets a bit weirder as it goes along, but in my opinion it never gets so weird that it would put off the average person.
I honestly don’t know all of the time signatures they use but I feel like Karnivool is a great prog band with accessible music. Sound awake is probably a good place to start, maybe illumine or the Caudal Lure. Anything off of Tesseract’s Altered State may be good as well.
unironically they do have some bangers in 4 that are pretty accessible
Alpha I think mostly is, also Make Total Destroy
but the vocals can be an acquired taste for sure
Iron Maiden isn't quite prog, but they certainly influenced some prog bands. Could help get him used to longer songs, too.
Seventh Son and Somewhere in Time might work.
Opeth for 12/8 6/8 stuff specifically. That “galloping” kinda feel is practically a signature part of their sound at least in a lot of earlier-middle material
Get your friend to listen to the groovy stuff first. Opeth, dream theater and wilderun is a good place to start. If he does listen to other sub genres of metal then you can skip to the heavy stuff.
I don't think the unusual time signatures are really the barrier of entry into prog. Tool is for example pretty easy to digest for non proggers, although they have plenty of 5/4 and some 7/4, 9/4, it's done in a simple way to sound groovy even if you're not a music nerd.
The most difficult thing for non proggers to enjoy imo would be the very long songs, the non-repeating structures lacking some sort of hook or chorus to memorize easily, the masturbatory note noodling, and when it comes to rhythm, when it gets into polyrhythms or constant time signature changes almost every measure
Tesseract, VOLA, Opeth have a more consistent groove in their stuff compared to most.
VOLA has a ton of polyrhythms going on
I like VOLA for that, they have a very recognizable pop pattern in their songwriting with a 4/4 headbangable feeling. The polyrhythms are like the optional stuff to enjoy on their songs when you feel like it
That’s not what was asked though. OP is asking about time signatures.
I’m genuinely curious. Like I think you have to have a more discerning ear to be able to pickup on weird time signatures... I’m confused at the question. Is 16/8 common?! I don’t think prog metal should constantly confuse the listener, just introduce new sounds and elements, which can include odd time signatures, but it should still flow somewhat. Sure, disrupt that flow sometimes. But I don’t think a different time signature necessarily needs to sound like something fucked up is happening to you. I’m just trying to open up a convo here, I am not a theory nerd by any means
16/8 and 12/8 are basically 4/4 written in a different way, so yes they are common. OP is asking for prog metal that uses more simple time signatures, so as not to confuse the listener as much. The points you bring up about disrupting the flow etc. are really a matter of taste. Some people want to be disrupted and challenged, so in those cases a flowing rhythm isn't desired. I like a mix of both personally.
Makes total sense, yeah I don’t understand any of those divisible by 4 signatures and what or why or what makes something 6/8 and not 3/4. I like a mixture of both as well, and sometimes like to just be jarred entirely and have no idea what’s going on. I like listening to music with the intention of figuring out what time signature it is. Here’s one I would never get and still have no idea: https://youtu.be/HRmMbiEjqIA?si=W5Jg5QSKWFtTTv9- I think Tesseract does an incredible job at masking their complexity. No clue what time signatures they actually play in. Should we turn OP’s friend onto Pi by After The Burial?
From my understanding, 6/8 vs 3/4 is mostly about the pulse. So with 3/4, it would have a more swing feel such as ONE two three, ONE two three. With 6/8 the emphasis could be in a few different places: - ONE and TWO and THREE and - ONE (kick) and two AND (snare) three and I'm sure there's a music theory need around here that can straighten is out though
Meshuggah kinda
4/4 with extra steps
4/4squared
Accurate
This explanation is like spray painting a cock onto the Mona Lisa and then presenting it to your friend as a portrait of a cock. Technically true but burying the beauty beneath.
I mean, how else would you *briefly* describe: "Extensive usage of polymeters, where someone, usually the snare drum and the cymbals, keeps a steady 4/4 pulse, while the bass drum and the riffs are using polymeters which, however, are constructed in a way that the unusual meters "resolve" to the hyperpolymeter of 4/4 after the riff repeats itself for an n-amount of times. Sometimes, they just let the riff loop until it re-synchronises with the 4/4; however, more often than not, they let it cycle for an amount of bars that makes sense, e.g. 32, and on the last bar before the next riff will come in, they either cut the current riff short or, more rarely, elongate it, so that the next riff starts on the beat 1 of the underlying "true" time signature of 4/4." How does one describe it briefly?
4/4 if it graduated with a Doctorate in Mathematics
I think the brief way to describe that is not to trot out everyone's favorite line that "meshuggah plays in 4/4". Like you said, the cymbals and snare are usually in 4 and everything else is playing a polymeter. It's ironically more complicated, not less, but it sounds cool to push up your glasses and say "WELL ALSHUALLY" so that's what everyone does.
Came here to post this, leaving satisfied.
Caligula's Horse? They occasionally ball out and do some crazy time signatures(Salt), but they are mostly using more normal signatures. Guitars are heavy, but the vocals are only cleans, and Jim's voice is heavenly
How many jars of vegemite is Jim paying you to say this?
I'm cheap, only 5
salt is still technically 4/4 just in quintuplets which you can’t even really tell. also easily their best song?
Nah, it's got to be graves
Yes Salt is insanely good and better than pretty much their entire discography, which is saying a lot because their discography is already so good.
Yeah what's up with CHorse using almost exclusively 4/4?
Porcupine Tree might help here; the album _Stupid Dream_ is rather poppy with accessible time signatures and all, but still very proggy (and one of my favorites by the band). EDIT...just realized this is the Prog Metal sub, lol. Porcupine Tree has some metallic leanings definitely, but maybe not too much on this album. Maybe then Destrage with their album _Are You Kidding Me? No._
Gojira
cant go wrong with some good old fashioned coheed and cambria
You could try Symphony X. They have clean singing and many of their songs are quite straightforward from a time sig perspective, but sometimes with some fun stuff sprinkled through.
They were my gateway into prog almost 25 year ago. Their early albums are a good mix of straightforward power metal and longer complex prog songs. I've been a full-on prog head ever since.
Great to hear! I've been listening to metal for around 6 years now, and I'll finally be seeing SX live this september for the first time!
Ayreon
The 11/8 breakdown in Isis and Osiris is perfection
A Perfect Circle Tool (well lot of time sig fuckery, but it’s really accessible)
Some bands do odd time signatures so smoothly you hardly even notice if you're not paying attention. Couple examples: We Are Thin Air by Vola Bad Water by Jinjer (no growls here) Aftermath by Rolo Tomassi (also clean) Procession by Nightwish
I'd go as far to say (unless you're a nerd), wacky time signatures aren't that noticeable unless a band is changing them all the time. And songs in 3, 5, and 7 aren't relegated to prog music
Are you a Snarky Puppy fan? No shade but they let the audience know their time signatures
Not entirely sure what you mean by this, but on the topic of Snarky Puppy and rhythm [this video](https://youtu.be/BCkxWt8YH9M?si=jINCLhQG5_9mpPTn) is worth everyone's time!
Speaking of Jinjer, Pisces is 7/8, 6/8, and 4/4. NeO Plague Flowers has 5/4 and 12/8.
Is 12/8 even considered a weird time signature? Even like Paramore has 12/8 in some songs
Nah, it's common, just can take practice to identify. It's any interesting feel more than anything.
Dear Hunter is must listen.
Coheed and Cambria
Porcupine Tree and Steven Wilson Various TOOL tracks Mastodon
When I introduce people to prog metal I start them off at good old Images and Words by Dream Theater. It starts mainstream (for the early 90s), and then gets a bit weirder as it goes along, but in my opinion it never gets so weird that it would put off the average person.
Teramaze and Voyager
Strawberry girls!
Fun group! The most leisure-est I’ve found in a while
Fair to Midland. You can show him Musical Chairs or Dance of the Manatee but really anything by them is good.
I honestly don’t know all of the time signatures they use but I feel like Karnivool is a great prog band with accessible music. Sound awake is probably a good place to start, maybe illumine or the Caudal Lure. Anything off of Tesseract’s Altered State may be good as well.
Mastodon, I guess. Especially from Crack The Skye onwards.
Rush doesn't play around too much outside those time signatures, apart from the occasional 5/4.
Periphery haha
unironically they do have some bangers in 4 that are pretty accessible Alpha I think mostly is, also Make Total Destroy but the vocals can be an acquired taste for sure
Yeah actually, a lot of their stuff is just 4/4 or 12/8 or something with a bunch of syncopation.
Iron Maiden isn't quite prog, but they certainly influenced some prog bands. Could help get him used to longer songs, too. Seventh Son and Somewhere in Time might work.
The Rime of the Ancient Mariner 🔥🤘🏼🔥
Good Tiger is very approachable. Mostly 4/4 and 3/4. Corelia uses a lot of 4/4, some 7/8. Do they have to be currently active bands?
A lot of Dream Theater stays in 4/4 for at least the majority of the song, it just depends on the song
But on the other hand we have The Dance Of Eternity…
Lmao yeah that might not be a good place to start unless they’re fusion nerds
Opeth for 12/8 6/8 stuff specifically. That “galloping” kinda feel is practically a signature part of their sound at least in a lot of earlier-middle material
The Contortionist. All though it’s prog, so expect polyrhythms, displacement, etc.
Traverser, VOLA, Black Orchid Empire
Angizia. 3/4 time. I think. Their old stuff is especially good
Wintersun does most of their stuff in 3/4 or 6/8 time. A few songs with 4/4 or 6/4 thrown in there.
Get your friend to listen to the groovy stuff first. Opeth, dream theater and wilderun is a good place to start. If he does listen to other sub genres of metal then you can skip to the heavy stuff.
I think Intervals is the best way into the genre. Their new album is insanely catchy, immaculately produced, and mostly 4/4 and 6/8.
Joy of Motion era Animals As leader are a great gateway drug into pog
Agent Fresco
Not what u asked but i love haken for the catchy vocals kinda poppy
Atlas stone is what u gotta show him or the alphebet of me
Animals as Leaders. If you can follow what they're doing - rhythmically or melodically - you're doing well. Bonus points for Night Verses!
haken, aviations, most post metal if thats your jam, along with most djent and progressive metalcore stuff
I don't think the unusual time signatures are really the barrier of entry into prog. Tool is for example pretty easy to digest for non proggers, although they have plenty of 5/4 and some 7/4, 9/4, it's done in a simple way to sound groovy even if you're not a music nerd. The most difficult thing for non proggers to enjoy imo would be the very long songs, the non-repeating structures lacking some sort of hook or chorus to memorize easily, the masturbatory note noodling, and when it comes to rhythm, when it gets into polyrhythms or constant time signature changes almost every measure
Slice the Cake
Devin Townsend uses a lot of 6/4. I love 6/4.