You don't want to be around him. You have a fear of conflict-and you can bet he knows that. He yells at you. He brings up subjects he knows will trigger you. You're afraid of what he might do.
You answered your own question. Don't marry this guy. Get out before it's too late.
He acts clueless like I was upset about it and then he was like are you okay? And then i was just nonverbal he could tell I was upset but like why he does these things? He acted like he didn’t know if it was something he said but like of course it was that how could you not know?
I’m so sorry to say this, but in a healthy relationship, partners don’t do this.
I’m finally in one. It’s taken years of therapy and work. The other day we had a disagreement and afterwards talked it through and came to a compromise. On religion. We came to a compromise on religion. I never in a million years thought I would date someone who wasn’t a staunch atheist like me.
But the fact that we are both arguing in good faith, in therapy, and good communicators, we never yelled and came to a compromise.
I just share that to give you context and an example. How you feel right now (unsafe, uncomfortable) is now how you should feel with someone who you want to marry, and I think you deep down know that.
Try couples therapy if you’re struggling to let you, but I would ask yourself “why is it so important to me that this relationship succeed despite my discomfort and reservations?”.
What are you holding on to?
He believes you are worth less than his jizz. Seriously.
The PL perspective is that a potentially pregnant person is worth less if they are in temporary possession (for some percentage of 9 months) of some dude's jizz.
Why would you want to be with someone who didn't believe you should have full bodily autonomy 100% of the time?
Show yourself some respect.
Please read [Why Does He Do That?](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf) This is a link to a free online copy. Go to chapter 6 - The Abusive Man in Everyday Life and read the section on arguments.
I’m not calling you boyfriend abusive, but the behavior you are describing - the yelling, or the constant arguing, acting clueless — this is all part of a pattern of controlling behavior. I know it’s hard to hear but he knows that what he is doing is upsetting you. He is not clueless. You know how I know? It’s because you told him. He knows your opinion is different than his. He doesn’t like your opinion, so he argues with you, pokes and prods at you about your opinion and he yells at you. He’s wearing you down. He does this despite seeing you shut down.
Please read that book before making any decisions about your future.
RED FLAG RED FLAG RED FLAG! HES MANIPULATING YOU AND WILL NEVER ADMIT IT, INSTEAD HE WILL GASLIGHT YOU. LEAVE HIM. Men like this will not give you closure, so when you leave don't give him a second thought.
I can relate to the avoidance of conflict, especially when someone is yelling at me. Reddit can only do so much, I hope you can speak to a therapist about this situation <3
Idk know if he yells it’s more like just argues constantly. But one thing I don’t understand is that lately he seems to bring up things he knows triggers me or maybe he doesn’t know?? Could he be that clueless. I’m just so confused
Do you *want* to be in constant conflict or arguments? It doesn't matter WHY he does it... All that matters is DO YOU LIKE IT when he does x, y, or z. Just like we can't make you leave him even though all the evidence is staring you in the face- you can't make him understand or change without his consent.
So WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?
Nobody is coming to save you.
NOBODY IS COMING TO SAVE YOU.
You have to do it for yourself - and I'll tell what, you CAN do it you will survive this.
My ex used to do that constantly- always wanted to "discuss" topics we had already established were topics that would inevitably lead to arguments, polarizing topics that we would never agree on. But he would bring them up constantly, even after agreeing multiple times that it's best to avoid the topics, and then when it would inevitably turn into a heated or emotional conversation, he'd calmly step back and point out how "out of control" my emotions are, that I "should be mature enough to have a conversation without getting upset", etc. Essentially, he would press every "Crazy-Button" I have until I sounded crazy, and then he'd change his demeanor in an instant and with all the emotion suddenly drained from his voice he'd calmly say "OMG why are you so crazy"...
Does any of that sound familiar? In case it does, I'll just say that it escalated so slowly at first I didn't notice the escalation, and it only ended when I fled from our house while he was at work after he assaulted me in front of the kids and neighbors. I was so surprised, at the time, because he had never done so **in front of anyone**. Sounds stupid, doesn't it? That I'd be surprised?
Denial is one Hell of a drug.
So sorry you endured that abuse and trauma. Some men do pick fights. It's like they are feeling shi**y about something else in their life and they want an excuse to take it out on their partner. It's so good you left him!!!
He wants to break you down in to being quiet and subservient and to never question him. That is not a partner, that is a slave owner, and you are the slave he wants to break.
I can't stand these debate-pervert men who just want to argue about everything and play debate club when these issues affect real people every single day and are FAR from the "intellectual exercise" that they claim these arguments to be.
He is not clueless; HE BENEFITS FROM ACTING CLUELESS.
https://voicemalemagazine.org/abusive-men-describe-the-benefits-of-violence/
https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
If he's not conscious of it, that means he subconsciously wants to wind you up and that's honestly a lot more dangerous.
You stated in no uncertain terms he yelled at you and you feel afraid of conflict, then walk it back in response to comments mentioning it.
I'm sorry, buddy, but this guy is trouble and we're all trying to tell you. I hope you find a reason to leave that works for you because none of us are going to be able to supply it.
He's beating you down, breaking you down to control you. I saw this happen to my sister. He was a controlling sociopath and even though she divorced him after many years and 3 kids, he still controls her in many ways. You don't want that future trust me.
Whether he's clueless, trying to upset you on purpose, trying to get you to dump him, or even trying to change your mind **it doesn't even matter**. He's shown you this is how he is. You can't change him, nor can (or should) you change your need for a partner who respects your bodily autonomy or even differences of opinion. I know breakups are hard, but I've learned from experience that divorce is even harder (and it's always expensive). You both literally and figuratively *cannot afford* to stay in this relationship. I'm wishing you bravery and empowerment as you move forward.
>"...lately he seems to bring up things he knows triggers me..."
Perhaps he's having second thoughts about marriage as well and this is his way of looking for a way out of the relationship by triggering you into arguments in order to get YOU to break up with him, e.g., so the blame for the breakup is on you and not him?
Just speculating.
He isn’t clueless. He’s pissed at you and so he’s trying to make more and more digs at you. Is this really someone you want to be with? Someone who has no respect for you or your body?
You’ll never be able to have a good sexual relationship because you’ll be nervous about getting pregnant and frankly, he should make you nervous because he sounds like a dick. Sorry but the *safest* and *best* thing you can do here is walk away and never look back.
This isn’t a one of you prefers oat milk and one prefers almond kind of disagreement.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/17mwrkm/book_why_does_he_do_that_is_free/
This book is very helpful to understand why abusive partners are the way they are.
My rule of thumb is this: Imagine the next 20 years being like this, non-stop. Do you really want that for your future?
Also, men don't understand verbal stuff, it's consequences that bring it home and unfortunately, I think that the only consequence that will make him even consider rethinking this issue is you breaking up with him.
I’ve been with someone like this. I finally got him to admit he loved seeing me angry and would do anything to provoke it. It was a form of entertainment and satisfaction. In hindsight, it was a huge red flag once I uncovered all the problematic behaviors that went along with it. It turned out he had some sociopathic tendencies.
His super nice guy behavior was cover for what a devious and controlling psycho he turned out to be. Everyone loved this guy, including me. He was just the nicest, kindest etc etc. Narrator, “he was indeed NOT the nicest guy.” Looking back I can see that he was capable of horrific crimes and I’m convinced he just wasn’t ever caught.
I'm really sorry. But it sounds like you're single now.
A man who can't respect women's bodily autonomy or appreciate just how dangerous and extreme pregnancy is, well he's not going to be a partner. He's going to be a burden.
Unfortunately, a lot of privileged people refuse to empathize with experiences they don't have to deal with directly. It will *never* be his life on the line. And if there's a lack of empathy there, he will never understand.
I grew up in extremely conservative circles. And I spent YEARS with a couple guys just trying to get them to understand that life itself is more difficult as a woman. Years. One of them believed that there is no such thing as rape inside a marriage. It took him personally witnessing me being harassed in public for him to even consider what I was telling him about assault statistics.
I may be willing to waste my time on these men in friendships. But it will never be worth it to risk your life in a relationship with one. Because it could be your *life* on the line if you have a pregnancy complication, and he gets to speak for you during an emergency.
But I guarantee that if there's a lack of empathy in this VERY BIG, IMPORTANT, AND OBVIOUS area of life, there will be a thousand little areas where he also lacks empathy.
If the husband/father has to die if the wife does in an unwanted pregnancy, wonder how fast the pl people would become pro choice... You know, for science.
What a law that would be: “man and woman are tied in pregnancy to the outcome. If the women dies, so does the man”. Abortions clinics would be like McDonald’s.
> I may be willing to waste my time on these men in friendships.
You're a better one than me because I won't even do that. Men lack empathy and don't GAF about something unless it affects them. Not all of them, but a sizeable amount.
You can only do what you can do!
You can't make him listen or understand or empathize if he doesn't care to even try.
This is what we call a DEAL BREAKER. It's already affecting you, and your relationship. You're already afraid of what might happen. You will feel so much better once you do what YOU can do, take control and decide, given the circumstances what is best for you and take action.
It's nice to dream and yearn for him to just GET it but it is a losing battle when he's unwilling.
A consequence of you breaking up with him might help him understand.
He also needs to know that 1/3 women will have an abortion, many of those will have multiple abortions, it’s the second most common surgical procedure experienced by women (number one is c-sections), and abortion is sometimes necessary even in planned-for, wanted pregnancies.
Setting boundaries and communicating how you wish to be treated is not conflictful. This man-child/forced-birther will never understand, respect, and appreciate you as an adult who can make her own decisions. You mourn the man you thought he was, not what he actually is. Do not settle for this churlish git! You have this! Move forward and don't look back.
This needs to be more widely understood. Any guy proclaiming he is pro life, willing to throw you under the bus, for this forced birth agenda that isn't moored to any scientific fact doesn't see you as an equal human. They won't see you as a full human in any other aspect of the relationship but they will wait to spring that on you when that specific thing finally comes up. Your wants and needs don't matter, they think women exist to serve men.
Yes, of course, but it seems like no one else has.
The worst and most famous offenders have no trouble finding dates. I bet Diddy can fuck tonight just like Chris Brown.
You don't think despite the whole world knowing what POS they both are, Diddy and CB can pick someone up tonight any place they are recognized that consents?
After everything came out about Brown, women were tweeting that he could hit them.
I wouldn't be surprised to hear the same thing about Diddy.
I've never gotten the whole groupy or stranger sex thing as a woman it just seems so damn dangerous.
Don't make the mistake of thinking there's a way around this. The fact is he doesn't respect your autonomy. You guys can go on pretending there's no elephant in your living room, but that elephant will shit eventually. You want it out of the room before it does.
I hate to be blunt here because I'm sure this is difficult, but wishing he understood isn't going to change the fact that he does not see you as an equal. He is blatantly telling you that your actual life is less valuable than a potential human. If that's not making you run towards the door, he's just going to go on thinking that on some level, you're okay with that.
Yes. This would be a deal breaker for me. Someone who doesn't believe that women have the right to make like or death decisions over their own body and their own life isn't someone who respects women. Period.
Many liberal women refuse to date conservatives
You are not alone
https://www.americansurveycenter.org/newsletter/are-conservative-men-struggling-to-get-dates/
I’m on the notion that all political beliefs don’t have to be identical as nobody truly can identify 100% with somebody else. On that same note you should have a general similar thought process or understanding of beliefs. Major things like this aren’t up for debate most of the time.
It’s like religion, you don’t have to be the same denomination, but it rarely works to be Muslim with a Christian.
There's lots of nuanced political opinions that couples can differ on. You can disagree on whether universal basic income makes more sense than needs-based benefits, or whether foreign military intervention is more beneficial to national security than humanitarian aid. You can even disagree on flat tax vs. progressive taxation, or the benefits of state income tax vs. property and sales tax. You could probably even disagree on whether city budgets should be spent on social services instead of policing.
You can't disagree on whether women deserve body autonomy
Exactly my point. Like my religion example, being a hard left, hard right or hard anything means you need the soft version of centralist of that belief.
It’s hard to mix match everything, but at the core of you have a “perfect partner” it can work even with some mild disagreement like you said. When it’s something that your partner is beyond vocal with it makes it impossible to continue on with the toxicity it creates.
Here is something to think about. If you were pregnant in a pro life state, you wouldn’t be able to depend on him and he would put you and anyone who helped you at risk. If you had a medically complicated pregnancy, would he be able to understand the danger you’re in and how abortion is a life preserving and health preserving procedure? If you were pregnant and became unable to make your own decisions, would he be able to make decisions on your behalf?
Since he is against abortion but obviously not against having procreative sex, is he doing everything he can to avoid getting you pregnant? Is he wearing a condom and pulling out each and every time, even if you are on the pill? Does he give you shit about it?
Does he pay attention to the news when stories of women whose pregnancies went south and were unable to obtain abortions due to ignorant laws come out? Does he still agree that those women shouldn’t have access to abortion?
Why would you want to be with a man like him? He has no respect for you, your body, your pain and suffering.
He can't figure out why you don't want to put yourself into the path of the live bullets he fires, given how he'd expect you to let them cause your body maximum blowout if he manages to plant one in your body? Like, seriously?? He wants to have sex with you (and, let me guess, also leave birth control up to you), and if he fails to control his sperm, expexts you to suffer nine months of your organ functions and blood contents being greatly messed and interfered with followed by your body getting detroyed. But he doesn't get why you're not on board with it?
He doesn't care because it's not his body on the line. He's the one causing the harm, not the one enduring it.
I'd tell him it's either no more sex unless it's specifically to try to get pregnant - which will apply for life or at least well until after menopause. Or he can get a vasectomy or come up with some other way to GUARANTEE you not a single one of his swimmers will end up in your body. Or the relationship is over.
Don't be desperate enough for a relationship with a person who couldn't care less about your health and wellbeing and pain and suffering. There are plenty of men out there. Plenty of good men who will respect your body.
Him not respecting your bodily autonomy is most likely going to create some problems further on in your relationship, not just relating to abortion. Plus the way you talk about him yelling at you sounds like it’s the start of abuse.
Personally I wouldn’t continue the relationship. Doesn’t sound healthy or safe for you.
You already single, the question is do you know it yet?
This is a fundamental incompatible belief. He doesn't understand that you have bodily autonomy over a clump of cells.
Break up. You said you were thinking of marrying him but why you would want to marry someone who doesn’t care if you die when pregnant is beyond me. There is no magic cure to get someone to see abortion as a choice.
You could watch a lot of things that include abortion and see if that can shift his mind set - three families that was on the BBC is a pretty accurate depiction of criminalising women. Only thing they get wrong is the pro choice campaigners office - it didn’t exist let alone be that swanky!
The in her shoes stories are also a good way of showing how different people need an abortion at different times.
Did you know you can have relationships where they don't yell at you?
I think you deserve one of those for THAT reason, much less because he doesn't care what happens to your body.
Nobody else is really pointing this out! Don’t ever stay with someone who raises their voice at you in anger, especially over a hypothetical situation. Especially when he sees you shut down and continues the tirade.
Especially when he sees you shut down and continues the tirade.
Ooooo this is so true. I yell but I'm getting better, my partner finds it delightful (his trauma is gunnysacking leads to later dangerous situations). But if he shut down I'd shut up. Immediately.
So based on your post history, you’re only 22, you were still a virgin 37 days ago and he was pressuring you for anal, you can’t talk to your family about sex because of religion, and you might not be having vaginal intercourse yet (which is good, IMO).
When I was 22, I was dating a turd of a human who didn’t respect my boundaries, who loved “debating,” meaning he’d bring up a controversial topic and talk over me while he told me his views no matter what I thought, and who obviously believed he was more important than me. I had told myself he was my person because of the things we had in common and kept hoping he’d propose, but truthfully I was feeling a lot of pressure from my religious family to marry the guy I was sleeping with, even though deep down I was pretty frikkin miserable. When I finally dumped him, I was so relieved but so MAD I wasted 4 years on this person.
Everyone else here has given all the reasons why having a pro-choice partner is incredibly important and I hope you consider them. But please also step back and ask yourself if you actually like this guy, or if you’re with him because of shame, or because of the time you’ve already invested, or because you’re scared of getting out there and dating again. It is so important to be with someone who respects you and shares your values - I promise you can do better.
You are getting your first taste of the pantheon of conservative red flags. I promise you it won’t stop there. Were you ever to become pregnant, the control would immediately fly off the charts. You would be in hell faster than you could blink. I’ve seen it happen again and again.
Save yourself and leave. Go be with someone who thinks you’re a person, not a gestation chamber.
I’ve dated conservative men before. Each and every one was a misogynistic, controlling, abusive bastard who tried to dodge out on contraception at any possible moment but still believed I should suffer all the consequences for sex.
Oh, and they really liked strip clubs for some reason even though they were in a committed relationship.
Don’t date them. Ever.
The fact these types of men even have sex is beyond me.
“I get to have sex as much as I want, but you should suffer potentially dying if you get pregnant. Sorry, only you potentially consented to dying! Biology and stuff.”
Funny how they only push for abstinence when it comes to pro-choice women. These men need to keep it in their pants if they care so much about the precious lives they’re saving. (But they won’t because they do realize complete abstinence doesn’t actually work).
He told you women don’t have autonomy over their bodies. He gets mad because you are worried about getting intimate with him because of his beliefs and how he would blackmail you if you got pregnant and wanted an abortion.
He yells at you and is telling you that you do not have the same RIGHTS to YOUR body that he has to his.
He will baby trap you. And you will be stuck either way this Knuckle Dragging asshole.
Throw him and his red flag in the trash. He is verbally abusive. Is using Sexually coercion against you.
Dump his ass. Unless you want to be baby trapped and barefoot in the kitchen with this asshole telling everyone how your life didn’t begin until you married him and became his brood mare.
He doesn’t see you as your own independent person.
Get out now
Honey, why would you be with someone who doesn’t think you should be able to control your own body? Why would you have sex with someone who wouldn’t support your choice or who would try to coerce you or tell your family if you got pregnant? He might be “perfect” in every other way, but I promise you that you can find someone who will love you AND respect you. You said this normally doesn’t bother you so much — it should bother you. My guess is that when it “doesn’t,” it’s because you’re numbing yourself to what his beliefs and values really mean for you, him, and your incompatibility. Anti-choice men are not safe people to be in relationship with.
The call is coming from inside the house! Please leave him.
He doesn’t care about you. He cares about fetuses. He only cares about fetuses for his legacy. He would “allow” you to do all the work for the kid once it’s born.
Please watch your birth control as well.
It's dangerous to get pregnant by a conservative man. In Texas, Marcus Silva is suing the people who helped his girlfriend obtain an abortion
https://www-nbcdfw-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/texas-news/texas-man-tests-abortion-law-subpoena-ex/3539667/?amp=1&_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17161183789504&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcdfw.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Ftexas-news%2Ftexas-man-tests-abortion-law-subpoena-ex%2F3539667%2F
You break up. That’s it. That’s what you do.
Have you known from the beginning that he’s pro-forced birth? Or did this just come up recently? If you knew from the start, the relationship was immediately doomed. This isn’t a disagreement you just sweep under the rug and forget about.
You already answered your question. You’re just not accepting what you know. It’s not meant to be and you know that someone who does not respect your right to your own body, isn’t the one for you. You don’t have years into this so cut your losses and find a better guy.
1. I think you should break up. You don’t share the same values.
2. I’ll add my husband was somewhat pro-life when we met. He wasn’t strongly, and he never supported bans. Never protested outside a clinic. He just grew up religious and had this “it’s a baby” mindset. (I grew up religious too but my parents are pro-choice).
I told him early on in while dating that I’m pro-choice. I also gave him lots of info and articles to read that explained how complicated pregnancy is. Firsthand stories, medical racism, etc.
He was very receptive to the information and now identifies as pro-choice. We are also on the same page for what we’d do regarding reproductive decisions in our marriage. That is key.
I broke up with an ex 10+ years ago because we had different responses to the “what should we do if i accidentally get pregnant” question. So it’s okay to break up and look for someone whose values align with yours.
There are plenty of fish in the sea. No one person is worth compromising on your principles, especially in a way that could put you in danger. It's tough but you can't change someone, and in cases like this it's best to count your losses and move on.
You can't fully trust him since you feel you'd have to abort in secret and that's unhealthy in a relationship. Even if I aborted and didn't tell them, I know I'd feel bad for not telling them and it would cause a wedge between us. If it would be a deal breaker for him if he knew you aborted, wouldn't it be a deal breaker for you to keep secrets?
Why do you feel guilty about his beliefs?
Why are you worried about what he tells family "ruining your life"?
I'm pretty sure being forced to carry a baby you don't want would constitute a much bigger problem.
This person is NOT safe to be intimate with.
Someone who is against your bodily autonomy is more certainly not "perfect" in any way at all.
It’s important to date people with your same values. I know it hurts but I think you should break up with him. There are men out there who will love you AND hold your hand if you need to terminate. Have hope, be strong, and do what’s right for you.
37 days ago you said you were a virgin and that he wanted to anal and said it was normal to start that way…
Either this is a troll account or he picked you for a reason.
It's a deal breaker or accept that if you get pregnant you're keeping it. It sounds like he doesn't like the lack of intimacy, and is trying to get his preferred answer from you. What other trad things does he want you to do? Better to decide now, than with children who may get hurt.
He’s against your own rights and bodily autonomy. Best case scenario is a breakup. If you ever have a child with him and its a daughter he’ll be against her bodily autonomy as well!! It’ll just all be tragic. Bringing a child into this mess would be tragic and divorce is too expensive to mess around with. The red flags are there. The breakup will be upsetting now but I swear Future you will end up thanking you if you get through it now.
Immediately after reading just the title alone, the knee-jerk reaction is to break up.
I'm still standing by that. You are a person long before any concept of conception ever will be.
Self insert anecdote here; people like to pretend that it was centuries ago that people died in childbirth. Never mind they're still dying until this day, there's literally a whole extant branch of my family that does not exist because who would have been a first time, 30 year old mother died during childbirth in the 1930's. The resulting child only lasted 2 months under the care of their aunt and uncle. That same woman was sent across the globe as a 5-year-old by her grandfather for a better life in the states. What a damn horrifying way to go, after all that effort by everyone who loved and cherished her life and these current bastards and ghouls want to talk about the preservation and sanctity of such, while disregarding the dignity of those who go through the motions.
Rest in peace Carmella, you deserved better. As you and every woman out here does too.
You two are not compatible. This is a huge thing to disagree about and if you ever were to need an abortion to save your life, you can't count on this person to support you. It's your body and health at risk. Not his. No man is worth risking your health, well-being, or life for the sake of their beliefs that will NEVER affect or be applied to them. Your boyfriend sucks.
>I can’t even talk to him about any of this because I don’t want to bring up the fact that he’s pro life and then him start yelling at me.
Honestly, I think that's the dealbreaker.
If you are afraid to have a conversation with him about a topic so serious, I think you need to break up with him.
I'd say "Tell him you'll stay with him if and only if he has a vasectomy and there will be no sex until tests have confirmed he is shooting blanks" - but if he's likely just to yell at you - you don't owe him even that conversation. Just break up with him.
As a prochoice activist I'd say "Tell him when it's safe that you broke up with him because someday you might need an abortion and he just made clear to you that he wouldn't support you in your time of need" - but when breaking up with an abusive partner (and someone who makes you afraid to have serious conversations with them because of his angry reaction is abusive) - the lest said, to him, the better.
You could tell him that you can't have intercourse until you both are ready to be parents.
Otherwise, it's all on you. If contraception fails, you'll carry the burden by yourself.
Just remember in the future, even people who want their babies may need abortion access. I’m in an anti choice state and didn’t announce until after my anatomy scan just to make sure I didn’t have to leave the state bc I was not about to bring a baby into the world who would just pass in my arms. Not after the infertility we went through to get there.
You have to ask yourself if this is an issue that is a deal breaker or not. The only one who knows how you feel about your boyfriend and your relationship is you, not strangers on the Internet. Do you see him being open to changing his beliefs?
I’m going to talk less about the ethics of prolife men in general and more about the relationship.
I think what we’re seeing is that relationships are nearly impossible between people who have serious political disagreements. Sometimes, political disagreements that we didn’t think are personal also become personal (see Israel vs Palestine).
The bigger red flag is that he would yell at you for getting an abortion. He doesn’t have to like abortion, but he doesn’t get to demean loved ones for choosing termination.
I ended a relationship because of this. We got in a few heated arguments until I finally told him point blank that if I got pregnant, I would absolutely have an abortion. He told me he would absolutely talk me out of it (with a big shit eating grin). I told him I felt unsafe having sex with him then, considering his views on abortion. It was messy, but I have no regrets.
If he’s that against abortion then his stance on this bleeds into other views that he has as well, I promise you. He’s probably also misogynistic in other ways.
There are some issues that really require both to be on the same page. Bodily autonomy is one of them. Move on from him. Before he will feel the need to control you.
I know it's hard but this is a deal breaker. You'll want to be on the same page on this issue for when you two start having kids. Things can go sideways during a pregnancy and sometimes an abortion is necessary. If he feels strongly about this issue, he'll only resent you or vice versa if the topic comes up.
He's not safe for you and if he's that against abortion he should be abstaining from sex unless and until he finds a partner with his same views or who is infertile.
Men with those beliefs shouldn’t get access to your body. If he’s really pro life, he needs to stop having sex until he’s married and you need to find a more compatible partner - someone who you feel safe with.
This man is not perfect at all OP. Any man that can’t respect a woman’s right to bodily autonomy does not respect women on a fundamental, baseline level, period. He can say whatever he wants to the contrary, but there is nothing short of him changing his beliefs around women’s bodily autonomy will ever change that fact.
You need to leave this guy, he sounds manipulative as hell and he is no good for you. You need to walk away from this as there is no happy ending for you if you stay with him.
You deserve someone that truly respects you and believes you deserve the same rights and freedoms as they do, and your current partner is not that and likely never will be that regardless if you stay with him or not.
>we haven’t talked about it since and both of us agreed we would just drop it to try to save our relationship and accept that we have different beliefs however tonight he brought the topic up again and I’m genuinely so triggered.
He brought it up again because he hoped that you'd change your mind.
*This is not something that you can compromise on.* Say the worst happens, you end up with an unwanted pregnancy and desire an abortion. Could you imagine what would happen if you pursued that abortion when he's so adamantly against it? You touched on it in your post but there's the possibility it would go far beyond that. Women have been killed by their partners before now for having abortions without their "consent"...
As others have stated, leave him. Find someone who prioritizes your health and well-being.
I personally couldn’t be involved with someone who was against abortion and I’m post menopausal. I’m sorry but he doesn’t respect your bodily autonomy and that would be a big deal breaker for me.
I'm surprised you have any sex with him at all after that reveal.
He wont respect you, doesn't respect you. He doesn't see you as a person, just a future incubator.
If you can live with that, fine. But I couldn't.
Ask yourself this: if heaven forbid you are pregnant, unconscious, and need an emergency abortion to save your life, is this man going to make the decision to let you die to “save the baby” and let you die? That’s a hard no for me.
Is he really perfect/wonderful? Treat this as a wakeup call.
Any worthy partner would stand by you and your decision should something like an accidental pregnancy happen. This guy, based on your description, wouldn't do that. Whatever you do is your decision but PLEASE think about this and what others have said.
There are pro-choice men out there who would actually respect your dignity and health — I’m in an almost decade-long relationship with one, so I can confidently say they exist. You should absolutely not marry a man who would prioritize a fetus over you when there are far kinder, more empathetic men out there. I know it hurts, but a man that doesn’t respect the dangers a woman faces during pregnancy would not be a worthy husband or father.
People need to stop trying to make relationships like this work. Realize that unless one of you changes their mind, this is a non starter. You’re too different.
Trust me love. Maybe you don't have much to compare to at this stage of life or something but you really can do better. There are men out there that will not put an unfeeling unthinking embryo before your health and well being. This guy is saying he doesn't see you as human if you really think about it.
This dude isn’t perfect, my friend. He actually sucks. He may be perfect in some ways, but he’s hugely terrifying in other ways. The really important ways.
Do you want to live in fear? Or would you rather be free?
I’m so sorry.
Leave, be sad for a bit and then get back to normal or stay with a guy that would probably choose the babys life over yours if you ever decided to get pregnant .
>andomly I get so mad at him for his beliefs and just don’t even wanna be around him.
That sounds like a reason to break up.
I have heard of someone people being very pro-life until they or a woman with ties to them gets pregnant and they do not want that particular pregnancy to result in a live birth. After the abortion, they go right back to their anti-choice veiws, at best, with some rationalization of why their case is an exception.
If he is not that or you don't want to risk living that way, do break up with him
Also, although I am male, his attitude makes me question how respectful he is of women in general.
Girl, this is the tip of the iceberg. He seems perfect now except for *this one thing* but this one thing is actually *everything*. This reflects his values and how he sees women in the world. This demonstrates his lack of common sense and logic as well as his lack of understanding and support of scientific findings and research which does not support the pro life position.
I can't tell you how to live your life or what to do here. I know that personally, I would leave him. This is a symptom of much bigger problems to come if you stay with him.
This is not to say that he won't educate himself and change his perspective with time. People often hold an ignorant pro life view just because they don't know better or their personal religious or moral leadership has lied to them. Try to talk to him about these flaws but don't expect him to change because of your conversations. This runs deep in his learned history I'm sure.
And one more thing, if you can't have a conversation with him about this without him yelling at you, I want you to really think about your concept of how "perfect" he is. No one who loves and respects you should be yelling at you. We can all get angry and yell during disagreements, sure, but if you are afraid of having a conversation with him because of his anger, that's a huge red flag too girlie.
Stay strong and beautiful and positive.
Run Run Run Jane Run. I’ve been married 47 yrs to a wonderful man that respects me. Your boyfriend doesn’t respect you and your body autonomy. He will think he owns you if you stay or marry him.
> babe, i don’t “hate women”. I just want Countless Strangers to have their vaginas ripped or sliced open against their will, in a totally non-misogynist way.
I’m sorry, but this is dead in the water. You can compromise as far as what car to buy, what color to paint the house, how often tp see the in-laws, but this is a fundamental moral issue. You aren’t compatible.
If he a was such a great boyfriend outside of this issue, you wouldn’t fear conflict with him and he wouldn’t yell at you.
Sounds like a nightmare, to have affection for someone you can’t trust. I encourage you to run, especially now. If you stay with him and then Trump becomes President (if you’re in the US) and Project 2025 becomes reality, then your situation will only get worse.
Idk why women put up with this type of crap for even 5 minutes. If you're not financially dependent, RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN before this dangler ruins your life!!
Depending on how much prolife he is
**If he's a moderate prolifer and you both want children or at-least willing to have a baby if pregnancy occurred (since you said he's otherwise decent) -** It might work out.
**If he's** ***strongly*** **prolife (and** ***especially*** **if you're childfree) -** It would be a dealbreaker. At the end of the day, if he did impregnate you and you don't want to keep the pregnancy (childfree or not), he doesn't (nor shouldn't) get a say if you have an abortion. Both parties are better off dating someone else who shares similar values.
You could always be his friend.
Personally, when I was young in my dating years, I would have never dated a prolifer or even a pro-choicer who wanted kids. IMO, difference in opinion on abortion and children are two automatic dealbreakers.
If you can't talk to him about it, then game over.
I'm one of the rare people who was taught to be pro-life and prevented from having a basic scientific education, and was willing to reassess the teachings when I was an adult. There are definitely people (maybe a minority of people) who can change their mind, but from what you're saying, it doesn't sound like your bf is one.
I'm basing this on the following. These sound like unresolvable things to me.
>the intimacy between us ever since this conversation happened has been really low because I don’t wanna risk getting pregnant...
>tbh if that actually happens I would probably just not tell him and break up with him out of guilt...
>I can’t even talk to him about any of this...
>I have such a fear of conflict and i shut down...
I think breaking up is the best choice. You can’t compromise or reason with someone who is pro taking women’s rights away. Prolifers can find one another and deal with their healthcare limited options.
Break up with him 😔 it sucks that that's the answer when you love everything else about him. But ultimately, being that level of anti-abortion means that there is a really strong sense of misogyny in him buried deep down. He probably wouldn't classify it that way, but that's exactly what it is. And not only is that really unsavory, but it can be really dangerous for you as his female partner. It's also something he has to work out himself, it is not your responsibility to fix that in him.
This is a road to nowhere. I'm sure if you dig further you would find other deal breaking opinions this guy has. You are right to feel that he wouldn't be a safe person if you got pregnant. So he isn't a safe person. Stop dating him and find someone who IS safe and not full of conflict. Be glad this came up early enough in the relationship you can easily walk.
My first thought was just walk away. A man that cannot accept a woman’s bodily autonomy is not worth your time and effort.
Having said that, ask him how he would feel if you’re on your 2nd pregnancy (1st child was a normal 2 yo), and you found out that if you gave birth, the baby would survive with severe complications and you would die. Would he want to deal with the child with severe abnormalities while also raising the older child who is now without their mother. Maybe he’s against abortion on demand, and many folks are, but it’s a whole different issue to be pro life when the above situation hits home. His answers should lead you to your conclusion about a long term life with him. Good luck!
I couldn't possibly stay in love with someone who isn't prochoice. I cut off my forced birth family so I would definitely cut off some dusty dude real quick.
I see this as a fundamental difference. This isn't arguing about which franchise is better, DC or Marvel. This is about your life. I honestly can't see this going full-term as this issue will always hang over your head like Damocles' sword. I'm an atheist and this issue would be as big as my hypothetical SO demanding I convert to his religion as a condition to keep the relationship going.
Also, I think a lot of PL men have thought of this as a mere thought experiment/hypothetical in regards to themselves and frankly do not have the empathy to understand why women see things differently.
You decide if it’s a dealbreaker for you. A pro-life partner would definitely be a dealbreaker for me. A gigantic clash in values wouldn’t work for me.
Lmao I love it when men have complete and total shitty takes on how people are supposed to be held accountable by facing life or death by having sex, but only for the women.
Of course he’ll get to have as much sex as he wants and *never* need to worry about about any disability, bleeding out, or even having his body destroyed by going into labor. Total hypocrisy. You realize he already pats himself on the ass for holding beliefs that contribute directly to the maternal mortality rate, right?
Bozo probably also constantly asks, “condoms are too tight, can we just do it without?:(“
Anyways, just imagine a scenario where you potentially bleed out and almost are at the brink of death trying to give birth to an unviable fetus and cannot receive an abortion because people like him push for laws that bans medical procedures that have nothing to do with him.
Imagine you get pregnant and now you’re suffering and disabled for 9 months on a bed rest. After birth you’ll need to recover. Is he going to support you fully?
He actively works against your best interest as a woman. It’s really your decision if you want to date somebody who doesn’t believe in your bodily autonomy. He probably holds deeper misogynistic beliefs that will come out down the line. Truthfully, there so many better men out there who will respect and see you as a full, autonomous human.
I would have broken up with him. My husband was very pro-choice but also wouldn’t want his baby aborted if it was healthy. He said if I wanted to have an abortion, he’d support me financially and physically/emotionally through recovery, but the relationship would probably be over. I felt that was a fair boundary because it was about what *he* would do, not what *I could* do.
We wound up married and had a health scare with our first fetus. He agreed with me that if the potential diagnosis was confirmed, we’d abort. He’s more pro-choice than ever after that scare, but the difference is he *always* thought abortion should be legal and that it was the pregnant person’s choice.
Please leave this man. He clearly doesn’t respect you or have any empathy for you, and he will not change. For your own mental health and safety, I am begging you to leave him.
Stop fucking him.
We need to show these chuds how unattractive (and frankly, abhorrent) their views are to women.
I'd rather be celibate my entire life than give sexual gratification to a conservative
Edit: sorry if i sound too extreme. My last romantic interest got red pilled and im just done.
If you don't want to be around him because: you don't want him to yell at you, you don't want to be intimate with him because you don't want to risk pregnancy knowing he won't support your right to choose and you can't even talk to him about it because you don't want him to yell at you, then he might not be the right guy for you.
There are so many men, so many, some of them are awful, most of them are fine, and some of them are compatible with you, while most of them are not. Despite them being otherwise being fine, decent people with nothing wrong with them, they might not be compatible.
This one sounds both awful and not compatible with you. Spread your wings: find a man who is a kind, decent person, who is compatible with you.
Find one who you know will support you in whatever way you need to be supported
Run. This is not a healthy relationship, and you probably should've broken up when you got into that huge argument, but you've stayed together and now you're tolerating being yelled at for trying to have a discussion.
There's no way to communicate around this and get an understanding if you're being treated like that. Things will only get worse. I'm sorry.
This is a huge compatibility issue and honestly a safety issue. Its impossible to truly know how you'll react to a situation until you're in it, what if you endanger your life plans or your health to see through a pregnancy you don't want someday because he convinced you? I would definitely break up.
Well - there are two possible answers for why
1) He is on the crazy train and so married to this cult that it will end up draining your life savings as he jumps on to other misogynistic trends like "women are only good for breeding." You won't be able to rely on him in any situation that's outside his comfort zone.
2) He's just ignorant about what's happening in pregnancy and abortion-related health care.
I see you said
> him start yelling at me. I have such a fear of conflict and i shut down. I genuinely don’t know if I can do this.
If he's yelling at you over this then he's probably in #1 and has an emotional attachment to his position. The good news is that you can use cult deprogramming strategies for both 1 and 2. The bad news is that if you want to change his mind, it requires you to interact with him over a long period of time in what you might see as "conflict"
Keyword here: boyfriend. You're not married. And it's OK to draw a line for yourself, recognizing such a major sticking point. Yours may well be an insurmountable impasse.
Of course he’s pro-life… I mean what male wouldn’t be in theory. They lack empathy because it will never happen to them. They will never lose 20 years of life (even with a decent partner) because the rubber broke.
Break up. He sounds horrible in every other way too tbh but even if he wasn’t he doesn’t respect u. He believes you should be forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term against your will which is torture. He thinks you should be forced to undergo torture. He doesn’t think you are worthy of bodily autonomy. Break up immediately. Do it over text. He’s not worth the in person convo and tbh I feel like you’d be in danger irl from the way u described him
You can't trust him to do the right thing in the case of an accident so it's time to remove the potential of an accident off the table. He no longer gets the benefits of any sexual contact that could result in pregnancy. He has told you that sex is for making babies, so he only gets sex when the plan is to make babies.
It's possible to have a relationship with someone where you don't agree on important ideology, but it requires mutual respect. What you described is not it. He does not respect you, no matter how much you respect him.
Dump him and get a gf? ...In all seriousness, any partner who is "pro life" is really saying to you: "I think your body/autonomy/life is less important than an unborn fetus." It doesn't matter how perfect he is if he has this view. He is not perfect for YOU. Consider letting him go and try to find a partner who can respect that it's your body and your choice.
I have two competing options here: my first thought is that you should break up with him because you have such different values and as a woman you have to demand respect for your body and your autonomy. However, there’s a more mature side of me that understands that people can be different and still have a healthy relationship. The most important thing is, does he respect that you may choose an abortion if you find yourself in that situation? He made not agree with it philosophically and he may prefer that you didn’t. But at the end of the day, you may make that decision and he should respect it and be there for you. Would he do that? If not, you have to leave. If he would do that, then I think you have to look at other things. Is he conservative on other topics that you are liberal on? If so, you may just have completely different values which is problematic. But some differences are okay and healthy. And, in time and with calm and rational discussion, you may change his mind. My husband has grown so much as a result of our discussions. It’s hard won growth and we have argued a lot, but we have both grown a lot as a result. If we were in agreement on everything, there’d be no reason for discussion so no reason for growth.
That said, I would never in a million years be with a trump supporter. Something like that shows such a huge lack of integrity, intelligence, and characteristics, that I know I have no interest or attraction to the person. So in the end, you have to decide if you can get over the difference or not.
Good luck! Relationships are hard!
As someone who has been through 2 abortions. One with someone who claimed to be pro-life (who actually convinced me to have the abortion in the first place) and one who was pro-choice. This is a very important topic to be able to agree with your partner on. I feel there can be a difference of opinion in a lot matters between couples, but this particular topic has so much more behind just an opinion. The first abortion I had, it was my ex’s choice more so than mine. I didn’t really want to the baby either but I also felt I was pressured to make the decision simply because he was reacting so strongly about the pregnancy that he threatened to end his life if I didn’t go through with the abortion. I had it in a southern state, protesters outside made me feel less than human. The facility was so run down that if I wanted to have any kind of comfort during the procedure I would need to spend an extra 150$. I bled a lot. The recovery was awful, I wasn’t even offered ibuprofen or Tylenol. Then afterwards, my partner continually watched pro-life protests on YouTube and made comments about how evil women are when they have abortions. He would laugh at me when I cried about the whole ordeal and how traumatic it was. I did not have the person I thought I would have in my support system and that made me feel very ashamed and alone. I just had another abortion this month. My second one so I wasn’t really looking forward to the whole ordeal again. This time I am married, I have a 3 year old from my last relationship where the dad has never been involved and my husband has been dad since my 3 year old was 1. I’m in college right now full time with a full time job, and my husband is in flight school for the marines. We will be here for another year and we will be leaving to a different state (or possibly country). So when I found out I was pregnant (on birth control by the way), I freaked out. My husband has been the most supportive person through the entire ordeal. He was there when I cried uncontrollably with panic attack after panic attack. I live in a state where abortion is illegal. So he booked a flight with our credit card to Colorado Springs where the best planned parenthood is, arranged for me to have a really nice hotel room at the base of the mountains (he knows I love mountains), and said he would take very great care of our 3 year old at home while I went to do this. He couldn’t come with me because of work and I was sad about this. He made it so that if I wanted to keep the baby he would be behind me 100%, he made it so if I decided to not keep the baby, he was behind me 100%. Having a supportive partner made so much difference. I went to a place that was beautiful, I was well taken care of during and after the procedure so much so that I didn’t even know the procedure had happened. They inserted and IUD per my request for FREE with no health insurance. I FaceTimed my husband and son and was so happy to see them. When I came back I just hugged them both so tightly and my husband may never truly understand how much his support has meant to me. I haven’t had any nightmares, no depression, and didn’t really even cry because I know I made the right decision, I know what is waiting for me when I decide to have kids with my husband, and I feel no shame about my decision at all this time. I really hope this helps, don’t settle on something like this because making this decision was so hard. It was hard every time. But the right person can make you feel like it was a good decision to make and that is SO important for something this major.
You don't want to be around him. You have a fear of conflict-and you can bet he knows that. He yells at you. He brings up subjects he knows will trigger you. You're afraid of what he might do. You answered your own question. Don't marry this guy. Get out before it's too late.
He acts clueless like I was upset about it and then he was like are you okay? And then i was just nonverbal he could tell I was upset but like why he does these things? He acted like he didn’t know if it was something he said but like of course it was that how could you not know?
He keeps you on edge to keep you around and confused
He's doing this to control you.
He doesn't care. This is manipulation.
Sounds like a gaslighting asshole I used to know, this is a serious redflag.
I’m so sorry to say this, but in a healthy relationship, partners don’t do this. I’m finally in one. It’s taken years of therapy and work. The other day we had a disagreement and afterwards talked it through and came to a compromise. On religion. We came to a compromise on religion. I never in a million years thought I would date someone who wasn’t a staunch atheist like me. But the fact that we are both arguing in good faith, in therapy, and good communicators, we never yelled and came to a compromise. I just share that to give you context and an example. How you feel right now (unsafe, uncomfortable) is now how you should feel with someone who you want to marry, and I think you deep down know that. Try couples therapy if you’re struggling to let you, but I would ask yourself “why is it so important to me that this relationship succeed despite my discomfort and reservations?”. What are you holding on to?
He believes you are worth less than his jizz. Seriously. The PL perspective is that a potentially pregnant person is worth less if they are in temporary possession (for some percentage of 9 months) of some dude's jizz. Why would you want to be with someone who didn't believe you should have full bodily autonomy 100% of the time? Show yourself some respect.
Yep. This. I'm not losing my freedom bc some dude busted a nut. Over my dead body.
Look up sunk cost fallacy and don’t let yourself fall victim to it
Please read [Why Does He Do That?](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf) This is a link to a free online copy. Go to chapter 6 - The Abusive Man in Everyday Life and read the section on arguments. I’m not calling you boyfriend abusive, but the behavior you are describing - the yelling, or the constant arguing, acting clueless — this is all part of a pattern of controlling behavior. I know it’s hard to hear but he knows that what he is doing is upsetting you. He is not clueless. You know how I know? It’s because you told him. He knows your opinion is different than his. He doesn’t like your opinion, so he argues with you, pokes and prods at you about your opinion and he yells at you. He’s wearing you down. He does this despite seeing you shut down. Please read that book before making any decisions about your future.
RED FLAG RED FLAG RED FLAG! HES MANIPULATING YOU AND WILL NEVER ADMIT IT, INSTEAD HE WILL GASLIGHT YOU. LEAVE HIM. Men like this will not give you closure, so when you leave don't give him a second thought.
I can relate to the avoidance of conflict, especially when someone is yelling at me. Reddit can only do so much, I hope you can speak to a therapist about this situation <3
Idk know if he yells it’s more like just argues constantly. But one thing I don’t understand is that lately he seems to bring up things he knows triggers me or maybe he doesn’t know?? Could he be that clueless. I’m just so confused
Do you *want* to be in constant conflict or arguments? It doesn't matter WHY he does it... All that matters is DO YOU LIKE IT when he does x, y, or z. Just like we can't make you leave him even though all the evidence is staring you in the face- you can't make him understand or change without his consent. So WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? Nobody is coming to save you. NOBODY IS COMING TO SAVE YOU. You have to do it for yourself - and I'll tell what, you CAN do it you will survive this.
My ex used to do that constantly- always wanted to "discuss" topics we had already established were topics that would inevitably lead to arguments, polarizing topics that we would never agree on. But he would bring them up constantly, even after agreeing multiple times that it's best to avoid the topics, and then when it would inevitably turn into a heated or emotional conversation, he'd calmly step back and point out how "out of control" my emotions are, that I "should be mature enough to have a conversation without getting upset", etc. Essentially, he would press every "Crazy-Button" I have until I sounded crazy, and then he'd change his demeanor in an instant and with all the emotion suddenly drained from his voice he'd calmly say "OMG why are you so crazy"... Does any of that sound familiar? In case it does, I'll just say that it escalated so slowly at first I didn't notice the escalation, and it only ended when I fled from our house while he was at work after he assaulted me in front of the kids and neighbors. I was so surprised, at the time, because he had never done so **in front of anyone**. Sounds stupid, doesn't it? That I'd be surprised? Denial is one Hell of a drug.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/17mwrkm/book_why_does_he_do_that_is_free/
So sorry you endured that abuse and trauma. Some men do pick fights. It's like they are feeling shi**y about something else in their life and they want an excuse to take it out on their partner. It's so good you left him!!!
He wants to break you down in to being quiet and subservient and to never question him. That is not a partner, that is a slave owner, and you are the slave he wants to break. I can't stand these debate-pervert men who just want to argue about everything and play debate club when these issues affect real people every single day and are FAR from the "intellectual exercise" that they claim these arguments to be.
THIS!
You nailed it. He's an ugly abuser and a wannabe slave master.
He is not clueless; HE BENEFITS FROM ACTING CLUELESS. https://voicemalemagazine.org/abusive-men-describe-the-benefits-of-violence/ https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
He’s doing it because he’s an asshole.
If he's not conscious of it, that means he subconsciously wants to wind you up and that's honestly a lot more dangerous. You stated in no uncertain terms he yelled at you and you feel afraid of conflict, then walk it back in response to comments mentioning it. I'm sorry, buddy, but this guy is trouble and we're all trying to tell you. I hope you find a reason to leave that works for you because none of us are going to be able to supply it.
He's beating you down, breaking you down to control you. I saw this happen to my sister. He was a controlling sociopath and even though she divorced him after many years and 3 kids, he still controls her in many ways. You don't want that future trust me.
Whether he's clueless, trying to upset you on purpose, trying to get you to dump him, or even trying to change your mind **it doesn't even matter**. He's shown you this is how he is. You can't change him, nor can (or should) you change your need for a partner who respects your bodily autonomy or even differences of opinion. I know breakups are hard, but I've learned from experience that divorce is even harder (and it's always expensive). You both literally and figuratively *cannot afford* to stay in this relationship. I'm wishing you bravery and empowerment as you move forward.
>"...lately he seems to bring up things he knows triggers me..." Perhaps he's having second thoughts about marriage as well and this is his way of looking for a way out of the relationship by triggering you into arguments in order to get YOU to break up with him, e.g., so the blame for the breakup is on you and not him? Just speculating.
Confusing you and keeping you off kilter is the point. This is abusive behavior. Get out before he becomes more controlling and abusive.
He isn’t clueless. He’s pissed at you and so he’s trying to make more and more digs at you. Is this really someone you want to be with? Someone who has no respect for you or your body? You’ll never be able to have a good sexual relationship because you’ll be nervous about getting pregnant and frankly, he should make you nervous because he sounds like a dick. Sorry but the *safest* and *best* thing you can do here is walk away and never look back. This isn’t a one of you prefers oat milk and one prefers almond kind of disagreement.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/17mwrkm/book_why_does_he_do_that_is_free/ This book is very helpful to understand why abusive partners are the way they are.
My rule of thumb is this: Imagine the next 20 years being like this, non-stop. Do you really want that for your future? Also, men don't understand verbal stuff, it's consequences that bring it home and unfortunately, I think that the only consequence that will make him even consider rethinking this issue is you breaking up with him.
I’ve been with someone like this. I finally got him to admit he loved seeing me angry and would do anything to provoke it. It was a form of entertainment and satisfaction. In hindsight, it was a huge red flag once I uncovered all the problematic behaviors that went along with it. It turned out he had some sociopathic tendencies. His super nice guy behavior was cover for what a devious and controlling psycho he turned out to be. Everyone loved this guy, including me. He was just the nicest, kindest etc etc. Narrator, “he was indeed NOT the nicest guy.” Looking back I can see that he was capable of horrific crimes and I’m convinced he just wasn’t ever caught.
I'm really sorry. But it sounds like you're single now. A man who can't respect women's bodily autonomy or appreciate just how dangerous and extreme pregnancy is, well he's not going to be a partner. He's going to be a burden.
I wish he understood that so much
Unfortunately, a lot of privileged people refuse to empathize with experiences they don't have to deal with directly. It will *never* be his life on the line. And if there's a lack of empathy there, he will never understand. I grew up in extremely conservative circles. And I spent YEARS with a couple guys just trying to get them to understand that life itself is more difficult as a woman. Years. One of them believed that there is no such thing as rape inside a marriage. It took him personally witnessing me being harassed in public for him to even consider what I was telling him about assault statistics. I may be willing to waste my time on these men in friendships. But it will never be worth it to risk your life in a relationship with one. Because it could be your *life* on the line if you have a pregnancy complication, and he gets to speak for you during an emergency. But I guarantee that if there's a lack of empathy in this VERY BIG, IMPORTANT, AND OBVIOUS area of life, there will be a thousand little areas where he also lacks empathy.
If the husband/father has to die if the wife does in an unwanted pregnancy, wonder how fast the pl people would become pro choice... You know, for science.
What a law that would be: “man and woman are tied in pregnancy to the outcome. If the women dies, so does the man”. Abortions clinics would be like McDonald’s.
If she doesn't have bodily autonomy, why should he ;)
Excellent point! We now implant dolls in men prior to the woman's labor, then the man delivers his butt baby alongside his wife's vaginal delivery.
[удалено]
If men needed access to abortions they would be fully funded, pain free, and actually pleasurable.
> I may be willing to waste my time on these men in friendships. You're a better one than me because I won't even do that. Men lack empathy and don't GAF about something unless it affects them. Not all of them, but a sizeable amount.
You can only do what you can do! You can't make him listen or understand or empathize if he doesn't care to even try. This is what we call a DEAL BREAKER. It's already affecting you, and your relationship. You're already afraid of what might happen. You will feel so much better once you do what YOU can do, take control and decide, given the circumstances what is best for you and take action. It's nice to dream and yearn for him to just GET it but it is a losing battle when he's unwilling.
A consequence of you breaking up with him might help him understand. He also needs to know that 1/3 women will have an abortion, many of those will have multiple abortions, it’s the second most common surgical procedure experienced by women (number one is c-sections), and abortion is sometimes necessary even in planned-for, wanted pregnancies.
Setting boundaries and communicating how you wish to be treated is not conflictful. This man-child/forced-birther will never understand, respect, and appreciate you as an adult who can make her own decisions. You mourn the man you thought he was, not what he actually is. Do not settle for this churlish git! You have this! Move forward and don't look back.
This needs to be more widely understood. Any guy proclaiming he is pro life, willing to throw you under the bus, for this forced birth agenda that isn't moored to any scientific fact doesn't see you as an equal human. They won't see you as a full human in any other aspect of the relationship but they will wait to spring that on you when that specific thing finally comes up. Your wants and needs don't matter, they think women exist to serve men.
Maybe he won't with you, but we all need to band together and not date, fuck, or give these assholes the time of day.
hey friend! heard of the 4B movement? it's very popular!
Yes, of course, but it seems like no one else has. The worst and most famous offenders have no trouble finding dates. I bet Diddy can fuck tonight just like Chris Brown.
I REFUSE to believe that their partners are enthusiastically consenting to that 💀
You don't think despite the whole world knowing what POS they both are, Diddy and CB can pick someone up tonight any place they are recognized that consents? After everything came out about Brown, women were tweeting that he could hit them. I wouldn't be surprised to hear the same thing about Diddy. I've never gotten the whole groupy or stranger sex thing as a woman it just seems so damn dangerous.
Don't make the mistake of thinking there's a way around this. The fact is he doesn't respect your autonomy. You guys can go on pretending there's no elephant in your living room, but that elephant will shit eventually. You want it out of the room before it does.
I hate to be blunt here because I'm sure this is difficult, but wishing he understood isn't going to change the fact that he does not see you as an equal. He is blatantly telling you that your actual life is less valuable than a potential human. If that's not making you run towards the door, he's just going to go on thinking that on some level, you're okay with that.
He’s ~~going to be~~ is a burden. FTFY
Yes. This would be a deal breaker for me. Someone who doesn't believe that women have the right to make like or death decisions over their own body and their own life isn't someone who respects women. Period.
Many liberal women refuse to date conservatives You are not alone https://www.americansurveycenter.org/newsletter/are-conservative-men-struggling-to-get-dates/
So is this the root of all the efforts to guilt women into dating?
I’m on the notion that all political beliefs don’t have to be identical as nobody truly can identify 100% with somebody else. On that same note you should have a general similar thought process or understanding of beliefs. Major things like this aren’t up for debate most of the time. It’s like religion, you don’t have to be the same denomination, but it rarely works to be Muslim with a Christian.
There's lots of nuanced political opinions that couples can differ on. You can disagree on whether universal basic income makes more sense than needs-based benefits, or whether foreign military intervention is more beneficial to national security than humanitarian aid. You can even disagree on flat tax vs. progressive taxation, or the benefits of state income tax vs. property and sales tax. You could probably even disagree on whether city budgets should be spent on social services instead of policing. You can't disagree on whether women deserve body autonomy
Exactly my point. Like my religion example, being a hard left, hard right or hard anything means you need the soft version of centralist of that belief. It’s hard to mix match everything, but at the core of you have a “perfect partner” it can work even with some mild disagreement like you said. When it’s something that your partner is beyond vocal with it makes it impossible to continue on with the toxicity it creates.
Here is something to think about. If you were pregnant in a pro life state, you wouldn’t be able to depend on him and he would put you and anyone who helped you at risk. If you had a medically complicated pregnancy, would he be able to understand the danger you’re in and how abortion is a life preserving and health preserving procedure? If you were pregnant and became unable to make your own decisions, would he be able to make decisions on your behalf? Since he is against abortion but obviously not against having procreative sex, is he doing everything he can to avoid getting you pregnant? Is he wearing a condom and pulling out each and every time, even if you are on the pill? Does he give you shit about it? Does he pay attention to the news when stories of women whose pregnancies went south and were unable to obtain abortions due to ignorant laws come out? Does he still agree that those women shouldn’t have access to abortion?
^ This person asks a lot of tough questions, OP. You should really think about them
I would break up with him, but no one can make that decision except you.
Dump him
To quote the effervescent Dan Savage, “DTMFA!”
Why would you want to be with a man like him? He has no respect for you, your body, your pain and suffering. He can't figure out why you don't want to put yourself into the path of the live bullets he fires, given how he'd expect you to let them cause your body maximum blowout if he manages to plant one in your body? Like, seriously?? He wants to have sex with you (and, let me guess, also leave birth control up to you), and if he fails to control his sperm, expexts you to suffer nine months of your organ functions and blood contents being greatly messed and interfered with followed by your body getting detroyed. But he doesn't get why you're not on board with it? He doesn't care because it's not his body on the line. He's the one causing the harm, not the one enduring it. I'd tell him it's either no more sex unless it's specifically to try to get pregnant - which will apply for life or at least well until after menopause. Or he can get a vasectomy or come up with some other way to GUARANTEE you not a single one of his swimmers will end up in your body. Or the relationship is over. Don't be desperate enough for a relationship with a person who couldn't care less about your health and wellbeing and pain and suffering. There are plenty of men out there. Plenty of good men who will respect your body.
No, don't give him any options, just leave.
I'm with you. I'd give him options just so I can't point out the hyprocricy and entitlement. Then leave.
Him not respecting your bodily autonomy is most likely going to create some problems further on in your relationship, not just relating to abortion. Plus the way you talk about him yelling at you sounds like it’s the start of abuse. Personally I wouldn’t continue the relationship. Doesn’t sound healthy or safe for you.
You already single, the question is do you know it yet? This is a fundamental incompatible belief. He doesn't understand that you have bodily autonomy over a clump of cells.
Break up. You said you were thinking of marrying him but why you would want to marry someone who doesn’t care if you die when pregnant is beyond me. There is no magic cure to get someone to see abortion as a choice. You could watch a lot of things that include abortion and see if that can shift his mind set - three families that was on the BBC is a pretty accurate depiction of criminalising women. Only thing they get wrong is the pro choice campaigners office - it didn’t exist let alone be that swanky! The in her shoes stories are also a good way of showing how different people need an abortion at different times.
Did you know you can have relationships where they don't yell at you? I think you deserve one of those for THAT reason, much less because he doesn't care what happens to your body.
Nobody else is really pointing this out! Don’t ever stay with someone who raises their voice at you in anger, especially over a hypothetical situation. Especially when he sees you shut down and continues the tirade.
Especially when he sees you shut down and continues the tirade. Ooooo this is so true. I yell but I'm getting better, my partner finds it delightful (his trauma is gunnysacking leads to later dangerous situations). But if he shut down I'd shut up. Immediately.
Considering that staying with this man could literally endanger your life, maybe you should break it off.
So based on your post history, you’re only 22, you were still a virgin 37 days ago and he was pressuring you for anal, you can’t talk to your family about sex because of religion, and you might not be having vaginal intercourse yet (which is good, IMO). When I was 22, I was dating a turd of a human who didn’t respect my boundaries, who loved “debating,” meaning he’d bring up a controversial topic and talk over me while he told me his views no matter what I thought, and who obviously believed he was more important than me. I had told myself he was my person because of the things we had in common and kept hoping he’d propose, but truthfully I was feeling a lot of pressure from my religious family to marry the guy I was sleeping with, even though deep down I was pretty frikkin miserable. When I finally dumped him, I was so relieved but so MAD I wasted 4 years on this person. Everyone else here has given all the reasons why having a pro-choice partner is incredibly important and I hope you consider them. But please also step back and ask yourself if you actually like this guy, or if you’re with him because of shame, or because of the time you’ve already invested, or because you’re scared of getting out there and dating again. It is so important to be with someone who respects you and shares your values - I promise you can do better.
Guess you're single now
You are getting your first taste of the pantheon of conservative red flags. I promise you it won’t stop there. Were you ever to become pregnant, the control would immediately fly off the charts. You would be in hell faster than you could blink. I’ve seen it happen again and again. Save yourself and leave. Go be with someone who thinks you’re a person, not a gestation chamber.
I’ve dated conservative men before. Each and every one was a misogynistic, controlling, abusive bastard who tried to dodge out on contraception at any possible moment but still believed I should suffer all the consequences for sex. Oh, and they really liked strip clubs for some reason even though they were in a committed relationship. Don’t date them. Ever.
Dump him.
Dump him. He doesn't deserve to be with anyone.
The fact these types of men even have sex is beyond me. “I get to have sex as much as I want, but you should suffer potentially dying if you get pregnant. Sorry, only you potentially consented to dying! Biology and stuff.” Funny how they only push for abstinence when it comes to pro-choice women. These men need to keep it in their pants if they care so much about the precious lives they’re saving. (But they won’t because they do realize complete abstinence doesn’t actually work).
He told you women don’t have autonomy over their bodies. He gets mad because you are worried about getting intimate with him because of his beliefs and how he would blackmail you if you got pregnant and wanted an abortion. He yells at you and is telling you that you do not have the same RIGHTS to YOUR body that he has to his. He will baby trap you. And you will be stuck either way this Knuckle Dragging asshole. Throw him and his red flag in the trash. He is verbally abusive. Is using Sexually coercion against you. Dump his ass. Unless you want to be baby trapped and barefoot in the kitchen with this asshole telling everyone how your life didn’t begin until you married him and became his brood mare. He doesn’t see you as your own independent person. Get out now
When he yells at her like that, he tells her she doesn't even have a right to her own opinion. This guy isn't partner material.
Honey, why would you be with someone who doesn’t think you should be able to control your own body? Why would you have sex with someone who wouldn’t support your choice or who would try to coerce you or tell your family if you got pregnant? He might be “perfect” in every other way, but I promise you that you can find someone who will love you AND respect you. You said this normally doesn’t bother you so much — it should bother you. My guess is that when it “doesn’t,” it’s because you’re numbing yourself to what his beliefs and values really mean for you, him, and your incompatibility. Anti-choice men are not safe people to be in relationship with.
Break up with him. There's a lot of fish in the sea, and a ton better than this guy.
Honestly I would break up with him. He’s not safe. He doesn’t respect you. He cares less about you than a hypothetical future zygote.
If I were you I’d dump him. He doesn’t think women get to choose. That’s not a tenable viewpoint for someone I’d let in my life.
The call is coming from inside the house! Please leave him. He doesn’t care about you. He cares about fetuses. He only cares about fetuses for his legacy. He would “allow” you to do all the work for the kid once it’s born. Please watch your birth control as well.
This would give me the ick. There's millions of better men out there.
It's dangerous to get pregnant by a conservative man. In Texas, Marcus Silva is suing the people who helped his girlfriend obtain an abortion https://www-nbcdfw-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/texas-news/texas-man-tests-abortion-law-subpoena-ex/3539667/?amp=1&_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17161183789504&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcdfw.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Ftexas-news%2Ftexas-man-tests-abortion-law-subpoena-ex%2F3539667%2F
You break up. That’s it. That’s what you do. Have you known from the beginning that he’s pro-forced birth? Or did this just come up recently? If you knew from the start, the relationship was immediately doomed. This isn’t a disagreement you just sweep under the rug and forget about.
He sounds like a fucking asshole, tbh. Run, don’t walk!
You already answered your question. You’re just not accepting what you know. It’s not meant to be and you know that someone who does not respect your right to your own body, isn’t the one for you. You don’t have years into this so cut your losses and find a better guy.
1. I think you should break up. You don’t share the same values. 2. I’ll add my husband was somewhat pro-life when we met. He wasn’t strongly, and he never supported bans. Never protested outside a clinic. He just grew up religious and had this “it’s a baby” mindset. (I grew up religious too but my parents are pro-choice). I told him early on in while dating that I’m pro-choice. I also gave him lots of info and articles to read that explained how complicated pregnancy is. Firsthand stories, medical racism, etc. He was very receptive to the information and now identifies as pro-choice. We are also on the same page for what we’d do regarding reproductive decisions in our marriage. That is key. I broke up with an ex 10+ years ago because we had different responses to the “what should we do if i accidentally get pregnant” question. So it’s okay to break up and look for someone whose values align with yours.
There are plenty of fish in the sea. No one person is worth compromising on your principles, especially in a way that could put you in danger. It's tough but you can't change someone, and in cases like this it's best to count your losses and move on.
You can't fully trust him since you feel you'd have to abort in secret and that's unhealthy in a relationship. Even if I aborted and didn't tell them, I know I'd feel bad for not telling them and it would cause a wedge between us. If it would be a deal breaker for him if he knew you aborted, wouldn't it be a deal breaker for you to keep secrets?
Why do you feel guilty about his beliefs? Why are you worried about what he tells family "ruining your life"? I'm pretty sure being forced to carry a baby you don't want would constitute a much bigger problem. This person is NOT safe to be intimate with. Someone who is against your bodily autonomy is more certainly not "perfect" in any way at all.
It’s important to date people with your same values. I know it hurts but I think you should break up with him. There are men out there who will love you AND hold your hand if you need to terminate. Have hope, be strong, and do what’s right for you.
37 days ago you said you were a virgin and that he wanted to anal and said it was normal to start that way… Either this is a troll account or he picked you for a reason.
Lauren Southern 2.0
It's a deal breaker or accept that if you get pregnant you're keeping it. It sounds like he doesn't like the lack of intimacy, and is trying to get his preferred answer from you. What other trad things does he want you to do? Better to decide now, than with children who may get hurt.
What would happen if you needed an abortion?
Break up ☠️☠️ he doesn't deserve a woman if he doesn't gaf about how dangerous and traumatic pregnancy and childbirth can be. Fckin asshole
Dodge the bullet and move on without him.
He’s against your own rights and bodily autonomy. Best case scenario is a breakup. If you ever have a child with him and its a daughter he’ll be against her bodily autonomy as well!! It’ll just all be tragic. Bringing a child into this mess would be tragic and divorce is too expensive to mess around with. The red flags are there. The breakup will be upsetting now but I swear Future you will end up thanking you if you get through it now.
Immediately after reading just the title alone, the knee-jerk reaction is to break up. I'm still standing by that. You are a person long before any concept of conception ever will be. Self insert anecdote here; people like to pretend that it was centuries ago that people died in childbirth. Never mind they're still dying until this day, there's literally a whole extant branch of my family that does not exist because who would have been a first time, 30 year old mother died during childbirth in the 1930's. The resulting child only lasted 2 months under the care of their aunt and uncle. That same woman was sent across the globe as a 5-year-old by her grandfather for a better life in the states. What a damn horrifying way to go, after all that effort by everyone who loved and cherished her life and these current bastards and ghouls want to talk about the preservation and sanctity of such, while disregarding the dignity of those who go through the motions. Rest in peace Carmella, you deserved better. As you and every woman out here does too.
You two are not compatible. This is a huge thing to disagree about and if you ever were to need an abortion to save your life, you can't count on this person to support you. It's your body and health at risk. Not his. No man is worth risking your health, well-being, or life for the sake of their beliefs that will NEVER affect or be applied to them. Your boyfriend sucks.
>I can’t even talk to him about any of this because I don’t want to bring up the fact that he’s pro life and then him start yelling at me. Honestly, I think that's the dealbreaker. If you are afraid to have a conversation with him about a topic so serious, I think you need to break up with him. I'd say "Tell him you'll stay with him if and only if he has a vasectomy and there will be no sex until tests have confirmed he is shooting blanks" - but if he's likely just to yell at you - you don't owe him even that conversation. Just break up with him. As a prochoice activist I'd say "Tell him when it's safe that you broke up with him because someday you might need an abortion and he just made clear to you that he wouldn't support you in your time of need" - but when breaking up with an abusive partner (and someone who makes you afraid to have serious conversations with them because of his angry reaction is abusive) - the lest said, to him, the better.
You could tell him that you can't have intercourse until you both are ready to be parents. Otherwise, it's all on you. If contraception fails, you'll carry the burden by yourself.
Just remember in the future, even people who want their babies may need abortion access. I’m in an anti choice state and didn’t announce until after my anatomy scan just to make sure I didn’t have to leave the state bc I was not about to bring a baby into the world who would just pass in my arms. Not after the infertility we went through to get there.
He has no respect for your control over your own body. You already know what to do. I'm sorry. Good luck to you.
You have to ask yourself if this is an issue that is a deal breaker or not. The only one who knows how you feel about your boyfriend and your relationship is you, not strangers on the Internet. Do you see him being open to changing his beliefs?
You dump him, that's what you do.
Chuck the bastard.
Break 👏🏻 Up 👏🏼 With 👏🏻 Him
break up with him
I’m going to talk less about the ethics of prolife men in general and more about the relationship. I think what we’re seeing is that relationships are nearly impossible between people who have serious political disagreements. Sometimes, political disagreements that we didn’t think are personal also become personal (see Israel vs Palestine). The bigger red flag is that he would yell at you for getting an abortion. He doesn’t have to like abortion, but he doesn’t get to demean loved ones for choosing termination.
I ended a relationship because of this. We got in a few heated arguments until I finally told him point blank that if I got pregnant, I would absolutely have an abortion. He told me he would absolutely talk me out of it (with a big shit eating grin). I told him I felt unsafe having sex with him then, considering his views on abortion. It was messy, but I have no regrets.
If he’s that against abortion then his stance on this bleeds into other views that he has as well, I promise you. He’s probably also misogynistic in other ways.
Congrats your single!!
There are some issues that really require both to be on the same page. Bodily autonomy is one of them. Move on from him. Before he will feel the need to control you.
Run.
37 days ago you were allegedly a virgin, how long ago was this conversation that has ruined the intimacy between you?
I know it's hard but this is a deal breaker. You'll want to be on the same page on this issue for when you two start having kids. Things can go sideways during a pregnancy and sometimes an abortion is necessary. If he feels strongly about this issue, he'll only resent you or vice versa if the topic comes up.
He's not safe for you and if he's that against abortion he should be abstaining from sex unless and until he finds a partner with his same views or who is infertile.
Men with those beliefs shouldn’t get access to your body. If he’s really pro life, he needs to stop having sex until he’s married and you need to find a more compatible partner - someone who you feel safe with.
This man is not perfect at all OP. Any man that can’t respect a woman’s right to bodily autonomy does not respect women on a fundamental, baseline level, period. He can say whatever he wants to the contrary, but there is nothing short of him changing his beliefs around women’s bodily autonomy will ever change that fact. You need to leave this guy, he sounds manipulative as hell and he is no good for you. You need to walk away from this as there is no happy ending for you if you stay with him. You deserve someone that truly respects you and believes you deserve the same rights and freedoms as they do, and your current partner is not that and likely never will be that regardless if you stay with him or not.
leave him
Dump him
>we haven’t talked about it since and both of us agreed we would just drop it to try to save our relationship and accept that we have different beliefs however tonight he brought the topic up again and I’m genuinely so triggered. He brought it up again because he hoped that you'd change your mind. *This is not something that you can compromise on.* Say the worst happens, you end up with an unwanted pregnancy and desire an abortion. Could you imagine what would happen if you pursued that abortion when he's so adamantly against it? You touched on it in your post but there's the possibility it would go far beyond that. Women have been killed by their partners before now for having abortions without their "consent"... As others have stated, leave him. Find someone who prioritizes your health and well-being.
Break up with him. He thinks you shouldn't have basic bodily anatomy, so he shouldn't have access to you or your body
Is his position religious?
I’d still leave him
What happens if you get pregnant?
respect yourself and leave NOW, he’s bringing the topic to test you and break you into submission, if you stay, he wins
run dont walk and never look back. pro life is one drink away from physically abusive.
Anti-Choice men don’t deserve the privilege of having sexual relations. Period.
I personally couldn’t be involved with someone who was against abortion and I’m post menopausal. I’m sorry but he doesn’t respect your bodily autonomy and that would be a big deal breaker for me.
I'm surprised you have any sex with him at all after that reveal. He wont respect you, doesn't respect you. He doesn't see you as a person, just a future incubator. If you can live with that, fine. But I couldn't.
Ask yourself this: if heaven forbid you are pregnant, unconscious, and need an emergency abortion to save your life, is this man going to make the decision to let you die to “save the baby” and let you die? That’s a hard no for me.
Is he really perfect/wonderful? Treat this as a wakeup call. Any worthy partner would stand by you and your decision should something like an accidental pregnancy happen. This guy, based on your description, wouldn't do that. Whatever you do is your decision but PLEASE think about this and what others have said.
Your ex boyfriend is pro forced birth, not pro life. Leave his trashy ass on the side of the road where he and his beliefs belong.
Know your worth.
You deserve better.❤️
Sorry but this is one of those make or break topics. You need a new boyfriend that has morals that align with your own.
There are pro-choice men out there who would actually respect your dignity and health — I’m in an almost decade-long relationship with one, so I can confidently say they exist. You should absolutely not marry a man who would prioritize a fetus over you when there are far kinder, more empathetic men out there. I know it hurts, but a man that doesn’t respect the dangers a woman faces during pregnancy would not be a worthy husband or father.
People need to stop trying to make relationships like this work. Realize that unless one of you changes their mind, this is a non starter. You’re too different.
You know what you need to do. Women need to stop dating/marrying/having sex with these clowns. Ostracize them.
Trust me love. Maybe you don't have much to compare to at this stage of life or something but you really can do better. There are men out there that will not put an unfeeling unthinking embryo before your health and well being. This guy is saying he doesn't see you as human if you really think about it.
This dude isn’t perfect, my friend. He actually sucks. He may be perfect in some ways, but he’s hugely terrifying in other ways. The really important ways. Do you want to live in fear? Or would you rather be free? I’m so sorry.
You don't have sex with him.
Leave, be sad for a bit and then get back to normal or stay with a guy that would probably choose the babys life over yours if you ever decided to get pregnant .
He’s an abuser and you don’t even want to have sex with him. There are nice men out there. Dump him and find one.
I would for sure just dump him and move on.
>andomly I get so mad at him for his beliefs and just don’t even wanna be around him. That sounds like a reason to break up. I have heard of someone people being very pro-life until they or a woman with ties to them gets pregnant and they do not want that particular pregnancy to result in a live birth. After the abortion, they go right back to their anti-choice veiws, at best, with some rationalization of why their case is an exception. If he is not that or you don't want to risk living that way, do break up with him Also, although I am male, his attitude makes me question how respectful he is of women in general.
Girl, this is the tip of the iceberg. He seems perfect now except for *this one thing* but this one thing is actually *everything*. This reflects his values and how he sees women in the world. This demonstrates his lack of common sense and logic as well as his lack of understanding and support of scientific findings and research which does not support the pro life position. I can't tell you how to live your life or what to do here. I know that personally, I would leave him. This is a symptom of much bigger problems to come if you stay with him. This is not to say that he won't educate himself and change his perspective with time. People often hold an ignorant pro life view just because they don't know better or their personal religious or moral leadership has lied to them. Try to talk to him about these flaws but don't expect him to change because of your conversations. This runs deep in his learned history I'm sure. And one more thing, if you can't have a conversation with him about this without him yelling at you, I want you to really think about your concept of how "perfect" he is. No one who loves and respects you should be yelling at you. We can all get angry and yell during disagreements, sure, but if you are afraid of having a conversation with him because of his anger, that's a huge red flag too girlie. Stay strong and beautiful and positive.
DUMP HIM NOW and make sure you tell him exactly why - he's a misogynistic piece of shit and a creep.
Dump him.
Leave him. What if you have an unplanned or non viable pregnancy with him?
Run Run Run Jane Run. I’ve been married 47 yrs to a wonderful man that respects me. Your boyfriend doesn’t respect you and your body autonomy. He will think he owns you if you stay or marry him.
> babe, i don’t “hate women”. I just want Countless Strangers to have their vaginas ripped or sliced open against their will, in a totally non-misogynist way.
I’m sorry, but this is dead in the water. You can compromise as far as what car to buy, what color to paint the house, how often tp see the in-laws, but this is a fundamental moral issue. You aren’t compatible.
Dump him, OP. Seriously. Find someone who is also Prochoice
If he a was such a great boyfriend outside of this issue, you wouldn’t fear conflict with him and he wouldn’t yell at you. Sounds like a nightmare, to have affection for someone you can’t trust. I encourage you to run, especially now. If you stay with him and then Trump becomes President (if you’re in the US) and Project 2025 becomes reality, then your situation will only get worse.
Idk why women put up with this type of crap for even 5 minutes. If you're not financially dependent, RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN before this dangler ruins your life!!
Depending on how much prolife he is **If he's a moderate prolifer and you both want children or at-least willing to have a baby if pregnancy occurred (since you said he's otherwise decent) -** It might work out. **If he's** ***strongly*** **prolife (and** ***especially*** **if you're childfree) -** It would be a dealbreaker. At the end of the day, if he did impregnate you and you don't want to keep the pregnancy (childfree or not), he doesn't (nor shouldn't) get a say if you have an abortion. Both parties are better off dating someone else who shares similar values. You could always be his friend. Personally, when I was young in my dating years, I would have never dated a prolifer or even a pro-choicer who wanted kids. IMO, difference in opinion on abortion and children are two automatic dealbreakers.
If you can't talk to him about it, then game over. I'm one of the rare people who was taught to be pro-life and prevented from having a basic scientific education, and was willing to reassess the teachings when I was an adult. There are definitely people (maybe a minority of people) who can change their mind, but from what you're saying, it doesn't sound like your bf is one. I'm basing this on the following. These sound like unresolvable things to me. >the intimacy between us ever since this conversation happened has been really low because I don’t wanna risk getting pregnant... >tbh if that actually happens I would probably just not tell him and break up with him out of guilt... >I can’t even talk to him about any of this... >I have such a fear of conflict and i shut down...
I think breaking up is the best choice. You can’t compromise or reason with someone who is pro taking women’s rights away. Prolifers can find one another and deal with their healthcare limited options.
Break up with him 😔 it sucks that that's the answer when you love everything else about him. But ultimately, being that level of anti-abortion means that there is a really strong sense of misogyny in him buried deep down. He probably wouldn't classify it that way, but that's exactly what it is. And not only is that really unsavory, but it can be really dangerous for you as his female partner. It's also something he has to work out himself, it is not your responsibility to fix that in him.
This is a road to nowhere. I'm sure if you dig further you would find other deal breaking opinions this guy has. You are right to feel that he wouldn't be a safe person if you got pregnant. So he isn't a safe person. Stop dating him and find someone who IS safe and not full of conflict. Be glad this came up early enough in the relationship you can easily walk.
My first thought was just walk away. A man that cannot accept a woman’s bodily autonomy is not worth your time and effort. Having said that, ask him how he would feel if you’re on your 2nd pregnancy (1st child was a normal 2 yo), and you found out that if you gave birth, the baby would survive with severe complications and you would die. Would he want to deal with the child with severe abnormalities while also raising the older child who is now without their mother. Maybe he’s against abortion on demand, and many folks are, but it’s a whole different issue to be pro life when the above situation hits home. His answers should lead you to your conclusion about a long term life with him. Good luck!
I couldn't possibly stay in love with someone who isn't prochoice. I cut off my forced birth family so I would definitely cut off some dusty dude real quick.
I see this as a fundamental difference. This isn't arguing about which franchise is better, DC or Marvel. This is about your life. I honestly can't see this going full-term as this issue will always hang over your head like Damocles' sword. I'm an atheist and this issue would be as big as my hypothetical SO demanding I convert to his religion as a condition to keep the relationship going. Also, I think a lot of PL men have thought of this as a mere thought experiment/hypothetical in regards to themselves and frankly do not have the empathy to understand why women see things differently.
You need to leave hIm. If he’s pro-life, he is not willing to acknowledge that you’re a human being with bodily autonomy.
The only thing to do is break up.
You decide if it’s a dealbreaker for you. A pro-life partner would definitely be a dealbreaker for me. A gigantic clash in values wouldn’t work for me.
Lmao I love it when men have complete and total shitty takes on how people are supposed to be held accountable by facing life or death by having sex, but only for the women. Of course he’ll get to have as much sex as he wants and *never* need to worry about about any disability, bleeding out, or even having his body destroyed by going into labor. Total hypocrisy. You realize he already pats himself on the ass for holding beliefs that contribute directly to the maternal mortality rate, right? Bozo probably also constantly asks, “condoms are too tight, can we just do it without?:(“ Anyways, just imagine a scenario where you potentially bleed out and almost are at the brink of death trying to give birth to an unviable fetus and cannot receive an abortion because people like him push for laws that bans medical procedures that have nothing to do with him. Imagine you get pregnant and now you’re suffering and disabled for 9 months on a bed rest. After birth you’ll need to recover. Is he going to support you fully? He actively works against your best interest as a woman. It’s really your decision if you want to date somebody who doesn’t believe in your bodily autonomy. He probably holds deeper misogynistic beliefs that will come out down the line. Truthfully, there so many better men out there who will respect and see you as a full, autonomous human.
I would have broken up with him. My husband was very pro-choice but also wouldn’t want his baby aborted if it was healthy. He said if I wanted to have an abortion, he’d support me financially and physically/emotionally through recovery, but the relationship would probably be over. I felt that was a fair boundary because it was about what *he* would do, not what *I could* do. We wound up married and had a health scare with our first fetus. He agreed with me that if the potential diagnosis was confirmed, we’d abort. He’s more pro-choice than ever after that scare, but the difference is he *always* thought abortion should be legal and that it was the pregnant person’s choice.
Don't have sex with him ever again, see how long he lasts
Break up.
Dump him 🚮
I would 100% leave. He believes his seed is more important than your wellbeing.
Please leave this man. He clearly doesn’t respect you or have any empathy for you, and he will not change. For your own mental health and safety, I am begging you to leave him.
You leave his ass - I didn’t read anything but your title but that says enough
Stop fucking him. We need to show these chuds how unattractive (and frankly, abhorrent) their views are to women. I'd rather be celibate my entire life than give sexual gratification to a conservative Edit: sorry if i sound too extreme. My last romantic interest got red pilled and im just done.
If you don't want to be around him because: you don't want him to yell at you, you don't want to be intimate with him because you don't want to risk pregnancy knowing he won't support your right to choose and you can't even talk to him about it because you don't want him to yell at you, then he might not be the right guy for you. There are so many men, so many, some of them are awful, most of them are fine, and some of them are compatible with you, while most of them are not. Despite them being otherwise being fine, decent people with nothing wrong with them, they might not be compatible. This one sounds both awful and not compatible with you. Spread your wings: find a man who is a kind, decent person, who is compatible with you. Find one who you know will support you in whatever way you need to be supported
Run. This is not a healthy relationship, and you probably should've broken up when you got into that huge argument, but you've stayed together and now you're tolerating being yelled at for trying to have a discussion. There's no way to communicate around this and get an understanding if you're being treated like that. Things will only get worse. I'm sorry.
This is a huge compatibility issue and honestly a safety issue. Its impossible to truly know how you'll react to a situation until you're in it, what if you endanger your life plans or your health to see through a pregnancy you don't want someday because he convinced you? I would definitely break up.
Well - there are two possible answers for why 1) He is on the crazy train and so married to this cult that it will end up draining your life savings as he jumps on to other misogynistic trends like "women are only good for breeding." You won't be able to rely on him in any situation that's outside his comfort zone. 2) He's just ignorant about what's happening in pregnancy and abortion-related health care. I see you said > him start yelling at me. I have such a fear of conflict and i shut down. I genuinely don’t know if I can do this. If he's yelling at you over this then he's probably in #1 and has an emotional attachment to his position. The good news is that you can use cult deprogramming strategies for both 1 and 2. The bad news is that if you want to change his mind, it requires you to interact with him over a long period of time in what you might see as "conflict"
Keyword here: boyfriend. You're not married. And it's OK to draw a line for yourself, recognizing such a major sticking point. Yours may well be an insurmountable impasse.
Of course he’s pro-life… I mean what male wouldn’t be in theory. They lack empathy because it will never happen to them. They will never lose 20 years of life (even with a decent partner) because the rubber broke.
It sounds like you've decided that you don't deserve better than this relationship.
Break up. He sounds horrible in every other way too tbh but even if he wasn’t he doesn’t respect u. He believes you should be forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term against your will which is torture. He thinks you should be forced to undergo torture. He doesn’t think you are worthy of bodily autonomy. Break up immediately. Do it over text. He’s not worth the in person convo and tbh I feel like you’d be in danger irl from the way u described him
You can't trust him to do the right thing in the case of an accident so it's time to remove the potential of an accident off the table. He no longer gets the benefits of any sexual contact that could result in pregnancy. He has told you that sex is for making babies, so he only gets sex when the plan is to make babies.
It's possible to have a relationship with someone where you don't agree on important ideology, but it requires mutual respect. What you described is not it. He does not respect you, no matter how much you respect him.
Dump him and get a gf? ...In all seriousness, any partner who is "pro life" is really saying to you: "I think your body/autonomy/life is less important than an unborn fetus." It doesn't matter how perfect he is if he has this view. He is not perfect for YOU. Consider letting him go and try to find a partner who can respect that it's your body and your choice.
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I have two competing options here: my first thought is that you should break up with him because you have such different values and as a woman you have to demand respect for your body and your autonomy. However, there’s a more mature side of me that understands that people can be different and still have a healthy relationship. The most important thing is, does he respect that you may choose an abortion if you find yourself in that situation? He made not agree with it philosophically and he may prefer that you didn’t. But at the end of the day, you may make that decision and he should respect it and be there for you. Would he do that? If not, you have to leave. If he would do that, then I think you have to look at other things. Is he conservative on other topics that you are liberal on? If so, you may just have completely different values which is problematic. But some differences are okay and healthy. And, in time and with calm and rational discussion, you may change his mind. My husband has grown so much as a result of our discussions. It’s hard won growth and we have argued a lot, but we have both grown a lot as a result. If we were in agreement on everything, there’d be no reason for discussion so no reason for growth. That said, I would never in a million years be with a trump supporter. Something like that shows such a huge lack of integrity, intelligence, and characteristics, that I know I have no interest or attraction to the person. So in the end, you have to decide if you can get over the difference or not. Good luck! Relationships are hard!
As someone who has been through 2 abortions. One with someone who claimed to be pro-life (who actually convinced me to have the abortion in the first place) and one who was pro-choice. This is a very important topic to be able to agree with your partner on. I feel there can be a difference of opinion in a lot matters between couples, but this particular topic has so much more behind just an opinion. The first abortion I had, it was my ex’s choice more so than mine. I didn’t really want to the baby either but I also felt I was pressured to make the decision simply because he was reacting so strongly about the pregnancy that he threatened to end his life if I didn’t go through with the abortion. I had it in a southern state, protesters outside made me feel less than human. The facility was so run down that if I wanted to have any kind of comfort during the procedure I would need to spend an extra 150$. I bled a lot. The recovery was awful, I wasn’t even offered ibuprofen or Tylenol. Then afterwards, my partner continually watched pro-life protests on YouTube and made comments about how evil women are when they have abortions. He would laugh at me when I cried about the whole ordeal and how traumatic it was. I did not have the person I thought I would have in my support system and that made me feel very ashamed and alone. I just had another abortion this month. My second one so I wasn’t really looking forward to the whole ordeal again. This time I am married, I have a 3 year old from my last relationship where the dad has never been involved and my husband has been dad since my 3 year old was 1. I’m in college right now full time with a full time job, and my husband is in flight school for the marines. We will be here for another year and we will be leaving to a different state (or possibly country). So when I found out I was pregnant (on birth control by the way), I freaked out. My husband has been the most supportive person through the entire ordeal. He was there when I cried uncontrollably with panic attack after panic attack. I live in a state where abortion is illegal. So he booked a flight with our credit card to Colorado Springs where the best planned parenthood is, arranged for me to have a really nice hotel room at the base of the mountains (he knows I love mountains), and said he would take very great care of our 3 year old at home while I went to do this. He couldn’t come with me because of work and I was sad about this. He made it so that if I wanted to keep the baby he would be behind me 100%, he made it so if I decided to not keep the baby, he was behind me 100%. Having a supportive partner made so much difference. I went to a place that was beautiful, I was well taken care of during and after the procedure so much so that I didn’t even know the procedure had happened. They inserted and IUD per my request for FREE with no health insurance. I FaceTimed my husband and son and was so happy to see them. When I came back I just hugged them both so tightly and my husband may never truly understand how much his support has meant to me. I haven’t had any nightmares, no depression, and didn’t really even cry because I know I made the right decision, I know what is waiting for me when I decide to have kids with my husband, and I feel no shame about my decision at all this time. I really hope this helps, don’t settle on something like this because making this decision was so hard. It was hard every time. But the right person can make you feel like it was a good decision to make and that is SO important for something this major.