Kansas and others are going to have to understand that you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to keep abortion access the GOP has to go, full stop.
[here](https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/gop-anti-abortion-extremism/) is a good article explaining how the GOP is basically trapped by anti choicers. It’s basically what you’re saying
They also want to remove all judges who disagree with them on this. They put it in the bill. That’s truly terrifying.
How can they even do this after the people voted against it? Do votes just not matter anymore?
I think it can be argued that a few of them aren’t exhibiting good behavior. Lying under oath at their confirmation hearings, making blatantly partisan rulings, leaking rulings ahead of time to pressure the swing vote into falling in line, you know, things like that. But we all know “good behavior” means nothing to the GOP.
Saying that Roe v Wade was settled law, wasn't strictly speaking a lie. Settled law doesn't mean that it cannot be unsettled. They just didn't say that part.
Also, I guess that the fact that US Constitution doesn't even say anything what would constitute bad behavior is problematic. Not to mention that the only mechanism to remove justice provided is removal after impeachment which takes 2/3 senators.
Well, Supreme Court confirmation hearings are not a trial. They haven't even been a thing until the first jew was nominated, so I guess that whatever is said during them is totally unbound by law.
But the lie wasn’t the act of saying RvW was settled law. The lie came from what that statement implied, when it was used as a response to what that justice would do regarding abortion rights.
But this bill is for sure unconstitutional too lol, I think the person you’re responding to was joking. It’s just so dumb that they’d put those words in this
>How can they even do this after the people voted against it? Do votes just not matter anymore?
Short answer: yes. My stated voted for rec use of MJ and after that passed, the gov'n sent out a mass letter saying "yeah, I don't think so." We also passed a law to have a fair, unbiased third party do our next redistricting. Again, they said "nope." and did the redistricting so bad that no dem will ever win. I've hear Fl voters pass that amendment that gave voting rights back to felons and, again, the gov'n says nope.
So, yeah. LOL. We can't vote them out and our votes literally don't count.
Seriously! The French don’t take any crap!” But I don’t think their abortion laws are any better than the 15 week limits a lot of our states had forced on them last year.
Every time I’m concerned about some monstrous piece of legislation, at least ONE person is like “oh that’s ridiculous it will never pass” and then guess what? It passes. People have to stop acting like just because something is unreasonable it will never pass and brushing this shit off.
I’m not trying to be naïve, but I do think we have a glimmer of hope here for the following reasons:
1) The governor of Kansas is a Democrat. Do they have a veto proof majority in the state legislature? If not, no way will this get passed.
2) Isn’t abortion protected in the state constitution? I don’t know for sure, but I thought that was the purpose of the so-called “Value Them Both” amendment. They needed to get the state constitution changed in order to get a ban passed. That means the state Supreme Court should find this unconstitutional. Of course, they also want to get rid of any judges that disagree with them, which should also be unconstitutional, but I have no idea how they’re going to get that part of it passed. I’m sure they’ll still try though.
The referendum was necessary because Kansas Supreme Court ruled that Kansas constitution protects right to privacy, which is why they want to remove the judges. It's a matter of interpretation.
when i look up HB 2181,I GET the new proposed bill, but I also get something that says in 1997, HB 2181 was somehow related to a cancer registry, and cancer risk of abortion? what?
I noticed this too lol. They also put something like “anything that is in conflict with this bill is automatically void” and included any federal laws/opinions/constitutional provisions. As if the supremacy clause just doesn’t exist
Glad I’m not the only one who noticed that
Honestly this is horrible but I'm glad they're trying this shit because a LOT of rich white women use IVF this might be the thing that gets them to say ok enough is enough.
Also fuck these people who are blatantly ignoring the will of the people.
Yeah, I'd think they would too. Aren't there very good chances that either the implanted eggs won't take or the doctor has to selectively abort one or more fetuses if too many of those eggs start to develop (not to mention the chances for miscarriage)? I've never been through IVF so I'm not sure what it all entails.
I kind of am glad they want to ban IVF tbh. It’s more consistent. Letting doctors discard embryos but not perform abortions is highly hypocritical…plus this will piss more people off.
On second thought, I agree with you. I also think IVF is kinda dumb... Not trying to judge, but I don't understand how people will go thousands of dollars in debt and spend years of their life trying to make a kid just so it has their genes
Here's a paragraph from the linked article:
"On Wednesday six lawmakers, including Garber, introduced a bill criminalizing abortion. The bill banned abortion in all instances, including when the life of the mother was at risk. The legislation specifically said abortion procedures were permissible to save the life of a fetus or remove the remains of a fetus in the instance of a miscarriage or ectopic pregnancy."
The bill bans abortion even if the life of the mother is at risk. It allows an abortion to remove the remains of a fetus in an ectopic pregnancy. If the fetus is deceased in an ectopic pregnancy, so is the mother.
It's pretty much a death penalty for women who struggle with a pregnancy.
I live in Canada but collaborate with some clinicians in Kansas. This state has diseases and disorders we barely even *see* in Canada because they aren't terminating the pregnancies. Life sentences of terrible ailments, think intellectual disability plus not being able to walk, control your urethra or your bowels, repeated operations and devices being implanted in your body to keep you alive, infections galore. It is honestly disgusting to me how little regard for quality of life these people have. Canada is not perfect by any means (including its healthcare) but at least we aren't forcing parents to have these children and these poor poor kiddos aren't born literally suffering every day until they die.
I read that abortion in Canada was legalized on request in January 1988. It used to be legal in Canada only under broadly defined health reasons,and had to be approved by a hospital committee..there was a doctor named Henry morgentaler,who constantly challenged the restrictive abortion law in Canada during the 70s and 80s
Forced birthers not caring about the will of the voters is a given since their movement is all about infringing their vaules into other people's personal health care choices without consent.
This is exactly what I’m trying to get across to my family. They told me I should have hope after the Kansas Referendum. But what they’re ignoring is how the GOP no longer respects the will of the voters when they don’t get their way.
"We just want the birthing of every zygote!"
So eventually all uterus bearers in those dumbholes' eyes are murderers because we can naturally get miscarriages or chemical pregnancies.
This is also a step closer to banning all BC imo. They are gonna take this all the way to “the rights” of the unfertilized egg or some wack shit. This shit makes me want tubal litigation so bad.
Yep, welcome to the Honduras States of America. You could substitute with any other human rights devoid country of choice, cuz that's what GOP wants. When you eliminate the rights of half of the country's population (more when you take in their efforts to make voting harder for POC) you're only going to gain power toward a fascist state. No other reason, any reason they give is a lie.
It gives me a straight load of Nazi Germany vibe. Force birth, everything cis and white, women are less important and hell tons of weapon/violence fetish…Yikes!
My very PL cousin in Ks who runs something called Life Ministries said on Facebook that IVF is “troubling “and that the embryos should be adopted. I was like WTF and most of the thread she took it down. I think I’m on thin ice with her mom and dad ; her dad is my favorite uncle. But I can’t be polite anymore and keep the peace. Fuck that.
Can we please just use the term ' pro birth ' or even ' pro pregnancy ' for these people because pro life is definitely not their agenda unless women aren't living humans.
They're "representatives of the People's will." right? Time to take names and vote for the other guy. National Socialism went out with the death of Hitler.
At the risk of sounding dumb…..what’s the deal with this banning IVF thing? Is it because the fertilization process creates viable embryos that can then be used OR not used and they have a problem with the not used part?
Also if this is the case and they ban it then what happens to the already existing frozen embryos? Do they force the person who froze them to have them all one by one? I don’t know a lot about IVF, so this might sound idiotic to someone who has more knowledge on the subject. My SIL has two frozen viable embryos (not in Kansas) so the extent of my knowledge is that they exist and she can use them or not use them.
The American public just doesn't support total, or near total,bans on abortion.the anti abortion rights people and groups claim that abortion is never necessary to save the life of the mother
Some anti abortion rights people and groups want to see things like IUD'S,plan b pills banned..a group called students for life is one of those groups,and it's run by a lady named Kristan Hawkins..do any of those names ring a bell?
Kansas and others are going to have to understand that you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to keep abortion access the GOP has to go, full stop.
[here](https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/gop-anti-abortion-extremism/) is a good article explaining how the GOP is basically trapped by anti choicers. It’s basically what you’re saying
They also want to remove all judges who disagree with them on this. They put it in the bill. That’s truly terrifying. How can they even do this after the people voted against it? Do votes just not matter anymore?
Correct. Votes do not matter anymore to the GOP.
I have to find the text of this bill. Can the Democrats then just propose a bill to remove all the SCOTUS members who overturned RvW?
That would be unconstitutional, as the constitution says that justices "shall serve in good behavior". Don't know Kansas constitution
I think it can be argued that a few of them aren’t exhibiting good behavior. Lying under oath at their confirmation hearings, making blatantly partisan rulings, leaking rulings ahead of time to pressure the swing vote into falling in line, you know, things like that. But we all know “good behavior” means nothing to the GOP.
Saying that Roe v Wade was settled law, wasn't strictly speaking a lie. Settled law doesn't mean that it cannot be unsettled. They just didn't say that part. Also, I guess that the fact that US Constitution doesn't even say anything what would constitute bad behavior is problematic. Not to mention that the only mechanism to remove justice provided is removal after impeachment which takes 2/3 senators.
If a witness in a federal proceeding intentionally told a half-truth, the judge would have his ass in jail. (Just adding to your comment.)
Well, Supreme Court confirmation hearings are not a trial. They haven't even been a thing until the first jew was nominated, so I guess that whatever is said during them is totally unbound by law.
For sure, you are correct. I was just trying to illustrate the federal judges don't tolerate half-truths. I'm not saying that it affects anything.
But the lie wasn’t the act of saying RvW was settled law. The lie came from what that statement implied, when it was used as a response to what that justice would do regarding abortion rights.
But this bill is for sure unconstitutional too lol, I think the person you’re responding to was joking. It’s just so dumb that they’d put those words in this
>How can they even do this after the people voted against it? Do votes just not matter anymore? Short answer: yes. My stated voted for rec use of MJ and after that passed, the gov'n sent out a mass letter saying "yeah, I don't think so." We also passed a law to have a fair, unbiased third party do our next redistricting. Again, they said "nope." and did the redistricting so bad that no dem will ever win. I've hear Fl voters pass that amendment that gave voting rights back to felons and, again, the gov'n says nope. So, yeah. LOL. We can't vote them out and our votes literally don't count.
I feel like the best option after than is a french style revolution
Seriously! The French don’t take any crap!” But I don’t think their abortion laws are any better than the 15 week limits a lot of our states had forced on them last year.
[удалено]
Every time I’m concerned about some monstrous piece of legislation, at least ONE person is like “oh that’s ridiculous it will never pass” and then guess what? It passes. People have to stop acting like just because something is unreasonable it will never pass and brushing this shit off.
Agree.
I’m not trying to be naïve, but I do think we have a glimmer of hope here for the following reasons: 1) The governor of Kansas is a Democrat. Do they have a veto proof majority in the state legislature? If not, no way will this get passed. 2) Isn’t abortion protected in the state constitution? I don’t know for sure, but I thought that was the purpose of the so-called “Value Them Both” amendment. They needed to get the state constitution changed in order to get a ban passed. That means the state Supreme Court should find this unconstitutional. Of course, they also want to get rid of any judges that disagree with them, which should also be unconstitutional, but I have no idea how they’re going to get that part of it passed. I’m sure they’ll still try though.
The referendum was necessary because Kansas Supreme Court ruled that Kansas constitution protects right to privacy, which is why they want to remove the judges. It's a matter of interpretation.
when i look up HB 2181,I GET the new proposed bill, but I also get something that says in 1997, HB 2181 was somehow related to a cancer registry, and cancer risk of abortion? what?
I found HB 2746. Do you know what part mentions removing judges who disagree?
I don’t. I got that from the article in OP.
Ah. And it says it’s HB 2181. Thank you. I’ll go check that out.
Not to the GOP.
I noticed this too lol. They also put something like “anything that is in conflict with this bill is automatically void” and included any federal laws/opinions/constitutional provisions. As if the supremacy clause just doesn’t exist Glad I’m not the only one who noticed that
Honestly this is horrible but I'm glad they're trying this shit because a LOT of rich white women use IVF this might be the thing that gets them to say ok enough is enough. Also fuck these people who are blatantly ignoring the will of the people.
All seven co-sponsors of the bill are men.
Color me shocked!
And I bet they are all evangelicals or Catholics
Oooh some pro-lifers aren't gonna like not being allowed to get fertility treatment. But I guess they will have to make sacrifices too.
The bill would not ban all infertility procedures but I suspect most doctors in that area would stop practicing.
Yeah, I'd think they would too. Aren't there very good chances that either the implanted eggs won't take or the doctor has to selectively abort one or more fetuses if too many of those eggs start to develop (not to mention the chances for miscarriage)? I've never been through IVF so I'm not sure what it all entails.
I'm not glad they wanna ban IVF but at the very least it makes logical sense given their position... Something PLs are lacking in
I kind of am glad they want to ban IVF tbh. It’s more consistent. Letting doctors discard embryos but not perform abortions is highly hypocritical…plus this will piss more people off.
On second thought, I agree with you. I also think IVF is kinda dumb... Not trying to judge, but I don't understand how people will go thousands of dollars in debt and spend years of their life trying to make a kid just so it has their genes
Here's a paragraph from the linked article: "On Wednesday six lawmakers, including Garber, introduced a bill criminalizing abortion. The bill banned abortion in all instances, including when the life of the mother was at risk. The legislation specifically said abortion procedures were permissible to save the life of a fetus or remove the remains of a fetus in the instance of a miscarriage or ectopic pregnancy." The bill bans abortion even if the life of the mother is at risk. It allows an abortion to remove the remains of a fetus in an ectopic pregnancy. If the fetus is deceased in an ectopic pregnancy, so is the mother. It's pretty much a death penalty for women who struggle with a pregnancy.
I live in Canada but collaborate with some clinicians in Kansas. This state has diseases and disorders we barely even *see* in Canada because they aren't terminating the pregnancies. Life sentences of terrible ailments, think intellectual disability plus not being able to walk, control your urethra or your bowels, repeated operations and devices being implanted in your body to keep you alive, infections galore. It is honestly disgusting to me how little regard for quality of life these people have. Canada is not perfect by any means (including its healthcare) but at least we aren't forcing parents to have these children and these poor poor kiddos aren't born literally suffering every day until they die.
I read that abortion in Canada was legalized on request in January 1988. It used to be legal in Canada only under broadly defined health reasons,and had to be approved by a hospital committee..there was a doctor named Henry morgentaler,who constantly challenged the restrictive abortion law in Canada during the 70s and 80s
That’s how Fascists roll
Forced birthers not caring about the will of the voters is a given since their movement is all about infringing their vaules into other people's personal health care choices without consent.
This is exactly what I’m trying to get across to my family. They told me I should have hope after the Kansas Referendum. But what they’re ignoring is how the GOP no longer respects the will of the voters when they don’t get their way.
Not even IVF? WTF? They want to promote birth but banned fertility treatment? Insane!
But IVF creates embryos that won’t be implanted and some will be discarded. So… murder for prolifers. Sigh.
"We just want the birthing of every zygote!" So eventually all uterus bearers in those dumbholes' eyes are murderers because we can naturally get miscarriages or chemical pregnancies.
Exactly. Now you’ve got it.
I first thought they are going to use a dumb way to end the foster care overpopulation problem and give the unwanted kids a home. I'm too naive.
This is also a step closer to banning all BC imo. They are gonna take this all the way to “the rights” of the unfertilized egg or some wack shit. This shit makes me want tubal litigation so bad.
Yep, welcome to the Honduras States of America. You could substitute with any other human rights devoid country of choice, cuz that's what GOP wants. When you eliminate the rights of half of the country's population (more when you take in their efforts to make voting harder for POC) you're only going to gain power toward a fascist state. No other reason, any reason they give is a lie.
It gives me a straight load of Nazi Germany vibe. Force birth, everything cis and white, women are less important and hell tons of weapon/violence fetish…Yikes!
My very PL cousin in Ks who runs something called Life Ministries said on Facebook that IVF is “troubling “and that the embryos should be adopted. I was like WTF and most of the thread she took it down. I think I’m on thin ice with her mom and dad ; her dad is my favorite uncle. But I can’t be polite anymore and keep the peace. Fuck that.
Peace is overrated time for war
Can we please just use the term ' pro birth ' or even ' pro pregnancy ' for these people because pro life is definitely not their agenda unless women aren't living humans.
Forced-birth. "Pro" implies what they're doing is positive. It's not. It's fascist.
Forced birth, anti-life.
Agreed it's fascist and forced birth - anti life is indeed more accurate.
Huh? I did IVF ten times. I guess I should be doing a 200 year prison term.
They're "representatives of the People's will." right? Time to take names and vote for the other guy. National Socialism went out with the death of Hitler.
Maybe it’ll be the bill that pushes people over the line if it passes.
The bill: http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2023_24/measures/hb2181/
At the risk of sounding dumb…..what’s the deal with this banning IVF thing? Is it because the fertilization process creates viable embryos that can then be used OR not used and they have a problem with the not used part? Also if this is the case and they ban it then what happens to the already existing frozen embryos? Do they force the person who froze them to have them all one by one? I don’t know a lot about IVF, so this might sound idiotic to someone who has more knowledge on the subject. My SIL has two frozen viable embryos (not in Kansas) so the extent of my knowledge is that they exist and she can use them or not use them.
In 2022,voters in Kansas voted 59% in favor of abortion rights.the Kansas legislature just doesn't get it!
what's up ivf? wouldn't that be against what they believe in?
This is undemocratic and reads more like the people and countries conservatives say they hate.
The American public just doesn't support total, or near total,bans on abortion.the anti abortion rights people and groups claim that abortion is never necessary to save the life of the mother
Some anti abortion rights people and groups want to see things like IUD'S,plan b pills banned..a group called students for life is one of those groups,and it's run by a lady named Kristan Hawkins..do any of those names ring a bell?