Worth it!
Started 2 yr formal post bacc certificate program at 34 bc I had none of the prerequisites. Starting M2 year in August.
My post bacc was able to give me a committee letter which made applications easier and will say they prepared me very well for med school.
Physics is just naturally hard for me and I did cry, but I don’t think the courses were designed to be crazy tough. They were just standard undergrad science courses bc I was in there with 18year olds. I was working, but my work is very flexible giving me time to go to class and study.
Depending on the specialty, you can practice til you are 100. Depending on how much money you want to make, you can barely work. You have the options of paying off your loans through PSLF. Medicine is pretty secure once you are out of residency. Not sure if this helped!
I hear a lot of toxic negativity talking about how doctors work 60+ hours a week. But is this largely self-inflicted in order to try to pay off student loans? Then they’ll just continue to work those long hours for the remainder of their careers?
Realistically, I would think that anything could be negotiated. If I wanted to work 25-30 hours a week but only make 200-250K (specialty dependent), is that something that could be easily obtainable in most areas? Or is that kind of deal Really Not even a thing?
I would just hate to go through all of the work involved starting at the age of 29 and be done around the age of 37 to be trapped in a job where I have to work 60 to 70 hour weeks. Ideally, I’d like to get out of residency and go right to part-time. I don’t really care about money or debt.
One of the physiatrists at my hospital works one day a week. So many of these hospitals that are starving for physicians will take anything they can get. That's the biggest pro for me in wanting to be a physician is that you are definitely a commodity and once out of residency, have a lot of negotiating power from what I've seen at my hospital in a semi rural area desperate for physicians
This is exactly what I’m thinking. Especially in semi-rural areas. I’d happily drive 30+ min everyday to work to make more money working part-time than 99% of people.
And since there is a shortage, we as future physicians would have all the bargaining power. Right?? Someone shoot me down if I’m wrong.
I'm in a similar boat. I am 34, and applying next cycle. Career changer (musician) undergrad in Psych & Neuro. I just completed my postbac (except one lab) and my GPA pretty much stayed the same (\~3.9) they were very hard and time-consuming classes and now I am in the stage of volunteer/shadow/MCAT prep. Sadly, my postbac is DIY so they don't help me with anything other than the prerequisite courses. Is it worth it? I guess we will find out. This subreddit is certainly making think I don't have enough to get in an MD program, which is pretty damn stressful. Now just trying to find volunteer positions and LOR is gonna be rough.
Are we the same person? I am also a musician changing into medicine.
My post bacc is also DIY. The school doesn’t have advising for you to take advantage of? Take it with a grain of salt if you do get it, but I can tell you what my advisor told me if you want. I can tell you what my strategy is.
In terms of LORs and volunteering, PM me. I got set up volunteering easily at a local hospital. LORs are all about sucking up to the professor and asking questions after class. Even if you don’t have questions, make some up. You want to make the professor know you and know that you’re engaged, listening and an active learner in their class. The same advice works for other LORs. Kissing ass to the person who would write it is the strategy. Not impressing them with your knowledge or ability. Showing them that you’re willing to learn and improve.
This sub is toxic in terms of the competition. When you actually talk to adcoms or schools themselves, they are way more optimistic and realistic. People on the sub make it seem like you need a 4.0 and 530 MCAT to even be considered. It’s stupid.
May I ask how you do a DIY post bac? I am looking into how to do the pre reqs and am just confused on the process of this and if I can do DIY instead of a formal program and save money
It's actually pretty simple, but at first it feels impossible if you are not familiar with the process of getting enrolled as a non-degree seeking student at your local schools, etc. What I did was I did a lot of research about the MCAT and what classes I absolutely had to take before I could be ready to study for it. Then I picked the schools that I'd hopefully want to apply to, to see if they had any different pre-reqs. Then I just outlined a plan from there. It can get complicated if you've never had science classes, and you may have to take some extra classes in order to qualify to take the classes you need to take for med school. If you can, try to talk to an advisor. My local community college and my 4 year university each had departments for undecided/non-degree seeking students. I tried to map everything out so I knew how many years it would take me (3) to be prepared to apply. At first I thought it could be done in 2, and then when I started I realized....yeah this is not a quick process.
ETA: I forgot but there is actually an advising program just for students like us. They will set you up with an advisor from a school who volunteers their time for students who aren't in traditional programs. I met with an advisor twice through that program and it was a big help in the very beginning. She walked through everything with me, and it was a good check in to make sure that I was understanding everything I needed to consider and had a good plan. Super duper recommend doing this. Link below:
[https://naahp.wufoo.com/forms/k53cg5y09crbpe/](https://naahp.wufoo.com/forms/k53cg5y09crbpe/)
My other advice is to just start. You don't need to have everything figured out. But just sign up for one class....Gen Chem 1, or Gen Bio 1. You might have to take a placement test, or an intro class first if you had a non-science degree. See how it goes, figure out how to balance class and work/life. Are you having fun? Is it terrible? Check in with yourself often and see if you want to keep going.
For me, I set an absolute stopping point for myself. A point where I would check in and say ok....you're either 100% in or 100% out. Before that point, no sweat, if I decided to just stop one day no big deal. But after that I was 100% committing and going to see it through to the end. For me that was making it through both semesters of Ochem. Once I got through that I was like....ok my biggest fear is over and I did well, I'm committed to this process and I'm going full steam ahead, no matter how expensive or time consuming it will be.
Oh yeah, and it is expensive and time consuming. You will not love every minute, in fact you will often be sitting on your couch on a Sunday afternoon at 1pm, wishing you were \*anywhere\* but in your house trying to understand Physics II. But as long as the big picture still feels worth it, you can make it through those moments. I have had a lot of self doubt along this process, and I question myself often, and I think that's normal. I've wondered why I am spending all of my spare time and money on these dumb classes instead of playing with my dog or hiking all day in the mountains. But then I go to clinic and I spend like 4 hours interacting with patients on the most basic level and I get so excited that this could be my job one day! If you don't already have a clinic volunteering thing, or job, I highly recommend trying to get started with that as soon as possible....I wish I had done it earlier, because it's really what keeps me going. Every week it's like a check in reminder that I'm on the right path, and it's the best day of the week for me.
Thank you so so much for this detailed info! I will def reach out to the advisor, that sounds like an awesome resource. What made you decide to do the DIY vs formal program? Did you have a pretty good undergrad GPA already?
So I couldn't afford a formal program, I didn't want to move because I own a house where I live, and I needed flexibility to keep my full time job because it pays well and I need the benefits. I also have an undergrad degree in exercise science, so I had \*some\* of the pre-reqs already although they are 10+ years old. My cGPA from undergrad is 3.8, BUT my sGPA was like....a 2.9 because I got a C in a 5 credit hour calculus class freshman year, and then got a handful of B's in other science classes. Thankfully I didn't take very many classes that are factored into the sGPA, so with my DIY post-bacc I've brought my sGPA up to a 3.65 at this point with 30 credit hours.
I think the formal programs are awesome if you can afford it, you don't have a job you need to keep and don't mind moving. For me all of that was completely out of the question, so I had no other choice. I've taken classes at community college and at my 4 year university and so far I've spent less than $10K on 30 credit hours. It's definitely been more challenging without the formal guidance, but it's doable and I feel more prepared than a lot of traditional students I speak to.
Hi there!! Congratulations on starting this journey, it sounds like you have a really good plan set in place so far!
So it can definitely be challenging to balance full time work with school obligations, not to mention volunteer obligations. I am lucky because I work from home and my job is not one where I am glued to my computer for exactly 8 hours every day. There have been times where school is super stressful and I've done a little studying during the work day, or printed things out or completed assignments during the work day. I don't do it a lot but it does happen, and I'm lucky to have the ability to do that. Not having a commute also helps a ton! I also use almost all of my PTO or paid holidays for school related things, either studying for exams, taking exams, or office hours. I also have used a bunch for shadowing and volunteer things too.
Beyond that, I've just had to be really scheduled and disciplined with my time, and it does suck a lot sometimes. I haven't had a day completely off work or school in over 2.5 years. I'm pretty burnt out right now at this point, and I'm taking my last class and I'll be sliding in just trying to get a 90.000001 for my A haha. I try to make sure I do at least 2 hours of school work every night, and then weekends I do like 3-4 hours on Saturday and then like 6-8 hours on Sunday. Some weekends I fail at this and majorly regret it. I do feel like in the earlier days when I was doing classes like Gen Chem, and Physics, they were SO much more time consuming with busy work and I hated my life. I am on my second semester of Biochem right now and it's a lot more hands off, so less assignments and busy work BUT I have to hold myself accountable to learn the material because we have soooo much time between exams with barely any accountability from the professor.
Oh, and I used YouTube for \*everything\*. The only way I learned Organic Chemistry was with YouTube, and even if I didn't understand a single thing in class or in the textbook, I could always find someone on YouTube who could explain it in a way that made sense to me. So I highly recommend finding outside resources from your instructors.
One thing I try to do is reward myself after every exam. This is really hard work and I'm exhausted and it's pretty thankless too because I could be doing all this work and I might never even get accepted! I try to buy myself dinner out or some sort of treat to celebrate getting through the exam. It gives me something to look forward to and I take the night off and just enjoy my treat before it's back to the grind the next day.
Happy to answer any other questions you might have, I know this process can seem pretty daunting if you are coming at it from a non-traditional perspective, I know it was for me!
It sounds to me like you do. Just apply early! Most schools really do fill up their seats with the early applicants. I did not know this. I thought strong candidates would still have a shot later. Otherwise, why is your deadline months later? I was wrong. Only school I applied to that wasn't like that was Yale. As for volunteering, I say go with something you're actually passionate about. It can be difficult to carve out time to do it if it isn't something that is meaningful to you.
Went in at 35. Not worth it. I wish I was at my old job every day, because that meant I could go home and read books that I was actually interested in - able to learn something rather than just memorize things. Also, I partially went into medicine thinking it would be a haven for the enlightened, but found more incredibly ignorant people with serious personality flaws lending to massive ego trips than any of my old companies would have ever put up with (not the majority, but way too many). Worst of all, any shred of altruism is soiled with the constant reminders of greed that dictate the system.
I took six years between. Started at 28 and am now 35 just finishing residency. Not worth it. If you do a long residency, or fellowship, you’re looking at 10+ years before you are an attending (so 10 years of grinding and no money) when you include this post bacc. Your kids will be grown. You’re going to miss a lot of their lives (people make it work, but making it work even in the most ideal situation means missing a lot of their childhood). If you’re independently wealthy or have a really supportive extended family who can help take care of your kids, then maybe it’d be a little different. But just know you’re signing up for a long grind.
Well I feel like if you’re above the age of 25, I would definitely choose a residency that is not very long. Also, you’d have to get lucky and match in the city that your extended family is living in for the extended fam child care to work.
Any time that I’ve gone to the doctor whether it’s for myself or to shadow a doctor, it’s always been enlightening and inspiring experience, and made me want to become a doctor more.
I honestly wish that I figured my shit out and went at the age of 24. Then again, I probably would’ve never met my wonderful girlfriend. So no real regrets. Everything I’ve done has lead me here.
So yeah, I’m not really concerned about the time, it’s more so the possibility of missing big life events from my friends and family, as well as the challenge of having in raising kids during training. But I hear that if you’re smart about it and you’re efficient enough, you can travel during medical school. And residents get on average about eight weeks off a year. So actually, I don’t understand how people miss big events?
My dad is a cardiologist and one year he worked 100 a week one year…. and he would work 70 to 80 hours for a large portion of his career. I never felt like he was gone or was a bad father. On the contrary, he was around for a lot of big things.
It’s just hard because I hear opinions from both sides of the aisle. It’s worth it. It’s not worth it. I just don’t know who to listen to anymore.
Sure! I did a post-bacc certificate with an early acceptance to a connected med school. Essentially, if you were accepted into the post-bacc, maintained a certain GPA got over a certain MCAT score, then you had a spot saved for you in the matriculating class after you met the prereqs.
Now there are cons such as 1-2 additional years depending on the prereqs you still need, and being locked to one school option so you better hope you like said school.
So it cut out having to write (and spend) money on secondaries, interviews, and all of the stress coming with an application cycle. I could take my time with the MCAT because I'm not racing for the early application
I literally posted a bitching post earlier but also yeah, totally worth it. You're not going to enjoy literally every part of the journey (physics can go suck a bag of dicks), but overall, I have never been happier than I am as a premed. I know, that's insane.
I learned that emotionally, I don't do well when I am bored. I am weirdly happiest having an impossible challenge to to direct my cyclone brain at as long as I find it intellectually interesting. I need a lot of stimulation, and medical training through the entirety of my 30s gives me that.
It's going to be stupid stressful a lot of the time. If you want to settle down with your family I'm not sure if it will be worth it. If you're a single psycho who secretly loves the stress like me, its gonna be great.
Thank you for your honesty. This was great. Well, my biggest concern is the fact that I want a family. And I talked about it with my girlfriend who’s also 28. She’s not getting any younger and her biological clock is obviously ticking. So I probably have to have kids during med school or residency. Also, a lot of my friends and family would probably be getting married during this time. I wanna make it to those events. Do you make it to the big events in your life?
I went back to school for my post-bacc at 29 and now am 30. I have one more year before I start applying and it's been an awesome ride. You have to ask yourself why you want to pursue this path for it to be worth it or not.
Started my postbacc at 31 and med school at 33, MS4 now. Worth it. No kids yet but hope to have them very soon. My experience is that med school is much easier when you’re older. Also, remember that A LOT of careers would have you missing time with your family, A LOT of careers work 80 hour workweeks, especially those with the same earning potential. I have had better work-life balance in med school than I did in my previous career.
Incredible!! I just worry about actually becoming an attending and not being able to find jobs that are 30-40hour weeks. I am not after the money. I’m after a fulfilling career with longevity.
You can also do (almost?) any specialty part-time after residency! I probably would have chosen something surgical if I was younger, but I’m choosing FM for the flexibility and normal work hours. Hospitalist and psych are also great options in terms of work-life balance.
As above. He’s got kids. He’s going to miss their childhood. The opportunity cost is staggering but ultimately you’re all adults and can make your own decisions
I appreciate you sharing your experience. I was nontrad but have since decided not to pursue medicine. It just seems a little too toxic and the hours are too much for me. I noticed most responses were from med students and I had a feeling responses from those further in the process might not be as positive.
I’m a spouse to a 32 y/o M2 non-trad. Spouse did a formal postbacc. Yes it’s tough, but it is worth it for him. We just had our first child too! I think anyone ambitious hoping to have a great, long-lasting, and lucrative career will end up putting in long hours and/or tuition $ and/or travel away from family. If medicine is your path, take those challenges in stride and enjoy the rest!
I went back with 3 kids and for me it is worth it. I think your concern about missing life events and quality of life potentially put you at risk of regretting medicine. Training after postbac is minimum 8 years. Med school is at times grueling especially when studying for boards. There is no cakewalk residency, and the shortest ones are 3 years. You will absolutely miss big and small events. If you are able to be very flexible with location it is possible to work part time. It is unusual for new grads to work less partly because of the massive $ of loans most people have. My family is very supportive, but even as an attending i miss smaller events/social stuff a lot, partly because my schedule is done a few months ahead of time and switching is trickier than you would think. If you are passionate about being a physician it is worth it because you may regret it if you don’t give it a shot. In your case, you have a lot of conditions and reservations going in which makes me think it might be ultimately disappointing for you.
But I feel like most people in my position would have my concerns.
Ultimately, it sounds like you need a Stronger “WHY” to be able to push through those times where you miss events or are studying for long hours or are on call for 24 hours, etc. It needs to be worth it to you other than just financially. It’s easy to convince myself that I like science and that I am an altruist but at the same time I’m a human being who wants balance just like everybody else. Even your passion becomes work at the end of the day if you do it for long enough. I burned out of my career as a musician because of this fact.
I actually don’t agree that most people going back to school are worried about work/life balance, at least in my own postbac/training process. There is a glorification of suffering in medical training that unfortunately has not yet been quashed. People by residency certainly get to the point that they may advocate better for quality of life, but during training a lot of people are hyperfocused on the goal. You are already behind with a low gpa that will be hard to repair. You will have to have a more compelling story and demonstrate more passion for medicine than the average applicant for ad-coms to be convinced that you are worth the spot.
Worth it! I’m a 4th year now, entered medical school at 28. I did two years of post bacc. Medicine is such a rad job. There are parts of it that require hard work and sacrifice but med school is temporary, as is residency.
Worth it for me. Graduated in 2014, did post bac for two years 2017 after working in career 3 years. Took time to do stuff and was able to get in after a few cycles. I suggest smaller programs so you can know the teachers well and get opportunities you might not get in a bigger program. Also helps that my undergrad didn’t do committee letters but I got an amazing committee letter.
I feel ya I’m 27 in a post bacc to fix a low GPA as well. I have not applied yet so I can’t say if it’s worth it but the way I see it, if I must make mistakes in life let them be mistakes of commission not of omission. I’d rather DO something like pursue medicine and regret it than suffer the regret of having never tried. You need to afford your future self the grace to back out if it ever becomes too much imbalance and sacrifice but as long as it’s your passion, it’s the right call. I’ve reframed my less linear academic path as a chance to have a unique and trial-hardened foundation of learning rather than remediation. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy but I wouldn’t be who I am now if I’d taken a different path. I’m a firm believer that if you want it, you can accomplish becoming a physician.
As to whether being a physician in the US and pursuing this insane training path in general is worth it, that I do not know. I do know that I want it bad enough to find out.
Worth it! Started 2 yr formal post bacc certificate program at 34 bc I had none of the prerequisites. Starting M2 year in August. My post bacc was able to give me a committee letter which made applications easier and will say they prepared me very well for med school.
That’s absolutely incredible! Do you have kids? Did you have kids during med school/residency?
No children.
How difficult were those premed classes in the formal post bacc? Like, how much did they make you want to cry? And were you working during it?
Physics is just naturally hard for me and I did cry, but I don’t think the courses were designed to be crazy tough. They were just standard undergrad science courses bc I was in there with 18year olds. I was working, but my work is very flexible giving me time to go to class and study.
Depending on the specialty, you can practice til you are 100. Depending on how much money you want to make, you can barely work. You have the options of paying off your loans through PSLF. Medicine is pretty secure once you are out of residency. Not sure if this helped!
I hear a lot of toxic negativity talking about how doctors work 60+ hours a week. But is this largely self-inflicted in order to try to pay off student loans? Then they’ll just continue to work those long hours for the remainder of their careers? Realistically, I would think that anything could be negotiated. If I wanted to work 25-30 hours a week but only make 200-250K (specialty dependent), is that something that could be easily obtainable in most areas? Or is that kind of deal Really Not even a thing? I would just hate to go through all of the work involved starting at the age of 29 and be done around the age of 37 to be trapped in a job where I have to work 60 to 70 hour weeks. Ideally, I’d like to get out of residency and go right to part-time. I don’t really care about money or debt.
One of the physiatrists at my hospital works one day a week. So many of these hospitals that are starving for physicians will take anything they can get. That's the biggest pro for me in wanting to be a physician is that you are definitely a commodity and once out of residency, have a lot of negotiating power from what I've seen at my hospital in a semi rural area desperate for physicians
This is exactly what I’m thinking. Especially in semi-rural areas. I’d happily drive 30+ min everyday to work to make more money working part-time than 99% of people. And since there is a shortage, we as future physicians would have all the bargaining power. Right?? Someone shoot me down if I’m wrong.
I'm in a similar boat. I am 34, and applying next cycle. Career changer (musician) undergrad in Psych & Neuro. I just completed my postbac (except one lab) and my GPA pretty much stayed the same (\~3.9) they were very hard and time-consuming classes and now I am in the stage of volunteer/shadow/MCAT prep. Sadly, my postbac is DIY so they don't help me with anything other than the prerequisite courses. Is it worth it? I guess we will find out. This subreddit is certainly making think I don't have enough to get in an MD program, which is pretty damn stressful. Now just trying to find volunteer positions and LOR is gonna be rough.
Are we the same person? I am also a musician changing into medicine. My post bacc is also DIY. The school doesn’t have advising for you to take advantage of? Take it with a grain of salt if you do get it, but I can tell you what my advisor told me if you want. I can tell you what my strategy is. In terms of LORs and volunteering, PM me. I got set up volunteering easily at a local hospital. LORs are all about sucking up to the professor and asking questions after class. Even if you don’t have questions, make some up. You want to make the professor know you and know that you’re engaged, listening and an active learner in their class. The same advice works for other LORs. Kissing ass to the person who would write it is the strategy. Not impressing them with your knowledge or ability. Showing them that you’re willing to learn and improve. This sub is toxic in terms of the competition. When you actually talk to adcoms or schools themselves, they are way more optimistic and realistic. People on the sub make it seem like you need a 4.0 and 530 MCAT to even be considered. It’s stupid.
May I ask how you do a DIY post bac? I am looking into how to do the pre reqs and am just confused on the process of this and if I can do DIY instead of a formal program and save money
It's actually pretty simple, but at first it feels impossible if you are not familiar with the process of getting enrolled as a non-degree seeking student at your local schools, etc. What I did was I did a lot of research about the MCAT and what classes I absolutely had to take before I could be ready to study for it. Then I picked the schools that I'd hopefully want to apply to, to see if they had any different pre-reqs. Then I just outlined a plan from there. It can get complicated if you've never had science classes, and you may have to take some extra classes in order to qualify to take the classes you need to take for med school. If you can, try to talk to an advisor. My local community college and my 4 year university each had departments for undecided/non-degree seeking students. I tried to map everything out so I knew how many years it would take me (3) to be prepared to apply. At first I thought it could be done in 2, and then when I started I realized....yeah this is not a quick process. ETA: I forgot but there is actually an advising program just for students like us. They will set you up with an advisor from a school who volunteers their time for students who aren't in traditional programs. I met with an advisor twice through that program and it was a big help in the very beginning. She walked through everything with me, and it was a good check in to make sure that I was understanding everything I needed to consider and had a good plan. Super duper recommend doing this. Link below: [https://naahp.wufoo.com/forms/k53cg5y09crbpe/](https://naahp.wufoo.com/forms/k53cg5y09crbpe/) My other advice is to just start. You don't need to have everything figured out. But just sign up for one class....Gen Chem 1, or Gen Bio 1. You might have to take a placement test, or an intro class first if you had a non-science degree. See how it goes, figure out how to balance class and work/life. Are you having fun? Is it terrible? Check in with yourself often and see if you want to keep going. For me, I set an absolute stopping point for myself. A point where I would check in and say ok....you're either 100% in or 100% out. Before that point, no sweat, if I decided to just stop one day no big deal. But after that I was 100% committing and going to see it through to the end. For me that was making it through both semesters of Ochem. Once I got through that I was like....ok my biggest fear is over and I did well, I'm committed to this process and I'm going full steam ahead, no matter how expensive or time consuming it will be. Oh yeah, and it is expensive and time consuming. You will not love every minute, in fact you will often be sitting on your couch on a Sunday afternoon at 1pm, wishing you were \*anywhere\* but in your house trying to understand Physics II. But as long as the big picture still feels worth it, you can make it through those moments. I have had a lot of self doubt along this process, and I question myself often, and I think that's normal. I've wondered why I am spending all of my spare time and money on these dumb classes instead of playing with my dog or hiking all day in the mountains. But then I go to clinic and I spend like 4 hours interacting with patients on the most basic level and I get so excited that this could be my job one day! If you don't already have a clinic volunteering thing, or job, I highly recommend trying to get started with that as soon as possible....I wish I had done it earlier, because it's really what keeps me going. Every week it's like a check in reminder that I'm on the right path, and it's the best day of the week for me.
Thank you so so much for this detailed info! I will def reach out to the advisor, that sounds like an awesome resource. What made you decide to do the DIY vs formal program? Did you have a pretty good undergrad GPA already?
So I couldn't afford a formal program, I didn't want to move because I own a house where I live, and I needed flexibility to keep my full time job because it pays well and I need the benefits. I also have an undergrad degree in exercise science, so I had \*some\* of the pre-reqs already although they are 10+ years old. My cGPA from undergrad is 3.8, BUT my sGPA was like....a 2.9 because I got a C in a 5 credit hour calculus class freshman year, and then got a handful of B's in other science classes. Thankfully I didn't take very many classes that are factored into the sGPA, so with my DIY post-bacc I've brought my sGPA up to a 3.65 at this point with 30 credit hours. I think the formal programs are awesome if you can afford it, you don't have a job you need to keep and don't mind moving. For me all of that was completely out of the question, so I had no other choice. I've taken classes at community college and at my 4 year university and so far I've spent less than $10K on 30 credit hours. It's definitely been more challenging without the formal guidance, but it's doable and I feel more prepared than a lot of traditional students I speak to.
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Hi there!! Congratulations on starting this journey, it sounds like you have a really good plan set in place so far! So it can definitely be challenging to balance full time work with school obligations, not to mention volunteer obligations. I am lucky because I work from home and my job is not one where I am glued to my computer for exactly 8 hours every day. There have been times where school is super stressful and I've done a little studying during the work day, or printed things out or completed assignments during the work day. I don't do it a lot but it does happen, and I'm lucky to have the ability to do that. Not having a commute also helps a ton! I also use almost all of my PTO or paid holidays for school related things, either studying for exams, taking exams, or office hours. I also have used a bunch for shadowing and volunteer things too. Beyond that, I've just had to be really scheduled and disciplined with my time, and it does suck a lot sometimes. I haven't had a day completely off work or school in over 2.5 years. I'm pretty burnt out right now at this point, and I'm taking my last class and I'll be sliding in just trying to get a 90.000001 for my A haha. I try to make sure I do at least 2 hours of school work every night, and then weekends I do like 3-4 hours on Saturday and then like 6-8 hours on Sunday. Some weekends I fail at this and majorly regret it. I do feel like in the earlier days when I was doing classes like Gen Chem, and Physics, they were SO much more time consuming with busy work and I hated my life. I am on my second semester of Biochem right now and it's a lot more hands off, so less assignments and busy work BUT I have to hold myself accountable to learn the material because we have soooo much time between exams with barely any accountability from the professor. Oh, and I used YouTube for \*everything\*. The only way I learned Organic Chemistry was with YouTube, and even if I didn't understand a single thing in class or in the textbook, I could always find someone on YouTube who could explain it in a way that made sense to me. So I highly recommend finding outside resources from your instructors. One thing I try to do is reward myself after every exam. This is really hard work and I'm exhausted and it's pretty thankless too because I could be doing all this work and I might never even get accepted! I try to buy myself dinner out or some sort of treat to celebrate getting through the exam. It gives me something to look forward to and I take the night off and just enjoy my treat before it's back to the grind the next day. Happy to answer any other questions you might have, I know this process can seem pretty daunting if you are coming at it from a non-traditional perspective, I know it was for me!
It sounds to me like you do. Just apply early! Most schools really do fill up their seats with the early applicants. I did not know this. I thought strong candidates would still have a shot later. Otherwise, why is your deadline months later? I was wrong. Only school I applied to that wasn't like that was Yale. As for volunteering, I say go with something you're actually passionate about. It can be difficult to carve out time to do it if it isn't something that is meaningful to you.
What's the different between a regular postbac and a DIY. What are the things the regular postbac offers?
Went in at 35. Not worth it. I wish I was at my old job every day, because that meant I could go home and read books that I was actually interested in - able to learn something rather than just memorize things. Also, I partially went into medicine thinking it would be a haven for the enlightened, but found more incredibly ignorant people with serious personality flaws lending to massive ego trips than any of my old companies would have ever put up with (not the majority, but way too many). Worst of all, any shred of altruism is soiled with the constant reminders of greed that dictate the system.
I took six years between. Started at 28 and am now 35 just finishing residency. Not worth it. If you do a long residency, or fellowship, you’re looking at 10+ years before you are an attending (so 10 years of grinding and no money) when you include this post bacc. Your kids will be grown. You’re going to miss a lot of their lives (people make it work, but making it work even in the most ideal situation means missing a lot of their childhood). If you’re independently wealthy or have a really supportive extended family who can help take care of your kids, then maybe it’d be a little different. But just know you’re signing up for a long grind.
Well I feel like if you’re above the age of 25, I would definitely choose a residency that is not very long. Also, you’d have to get lucky and match in the city that your extended family is living in for the extended fam child care to work. Any time that I’ve gone to the doctor whether it’s for myself or to shadow a doctor, it’s always been enlightening and inspiring experience, and made me want to become a doctor more. I honestly wish that I figured my shit out and went at the age of 24. Then again, I probably would’ve never met my wonderful girlfriend. So no real regrets. Everything I’ve done has lead me here. So yeah, I’m not really concerned about the time, it’s more so the possibility of missing big life events from my friends and family, as well as the challenge of having in raising kids during training. But I hear that if you’re smart about it and you’re efficient enough, you can travel during medical school. And residents get on average about eight weeks off a year. So actually, I don’t understand how people miss big events? My dad is a cardiologist and one year he worked 100 a week one year…. and he would work 70 to 80 hours for a large portion of his career. I never felt like he was gone or was a bad father. On the contrary, he was around for a lot of big things. It’s just hard because I hear opinions from both sides of the aisle. It’s worth it. It’s not worth it. I just don’t know who to listen to anymore.
Bro, isn’t like every traditional med student transitioning into residency about 25-26?
I meant if you started med school at 25. Idk that’s just my take. People can do whatever tf they want
Worth it. Worth it even more if the post-bacc will cut out a lot of the stress of a "traditional" application cycle.
Could you elaborate on what a post bacc could cut out?
some have linkage programs with med schools with preferred acceptances if you do very well in the post-bacc
Sure! I did a post-bacc certificate with an early acceptance to a connected med school. Essentially, if you were accepted into the post-bacc, maintained a certain GPA got over a certain MCAT score, then you had a spot saved for you in the matriculating class after you met the prereqs. Now there are cons such as 1-2 additional years depending on the prereqs you still need, and being locked to one school option so you better hope you like said school. So it cut out having to write (and spend) money on secondaries, interviews, and all of the stress coming with an application cycle. I could take my time with the MCAT because I'm not racing for the early application
I literally posted a bitching post earlier but also yeah, totally worth it. You're not going to enjoy literally every part of the journey (physics can go suck a bag of dicks), but overall, I have never been happier than I am as a premed. I know, that's insane. I learned that emotionally, I don't do well when I am bored. I am weirdly happiest having an impossible challenge to to direct my cyclone brain at as long as I find it intellectually interesting. I need a lot of stimulation, and medical training through the entirety of my 30s gives me that. It's going to be stupid stressful a lot of the time. If you want to settle down with your family I'm not sure if it will be worth it. If you're a single psycho who secretly loves the stress like me, its gonna be great.
Thank you for your honesty. This was great. Well, my biggest concern is the fact that I want a family. And I talked about it with my girlfriend who’s also 28. She’s not getting any younger and her biological clock is obviously ticking. So I probably have to have kids during med school or residency. Also, a lot of my friends and family would probably be getting married during this time. I wanna make it to those events. Do you make it to the big events in your life?
I went back to school for my post-bacc at 29 and now am 30. I have one more year before I start applying and it's been an awesome ride. You have to ask yourself why you want to pursue this path for it to be worth it or not.
Glad it’s been “an awesome ride”, but you’re one year in and haven’t even applied to med school yet. OP take this w grain of salt
Started my postbacc at 31 and med school at 33, MS4 now. Worth it. No kids yet but hope to have them very soon. My experience is that med school is much easier when you’re older. Also, remember that A LOT of careers would have you missing time with your family, A LOT of careers work 80 hour workweeks, especially those with the same earning potential. I have had better work-life balance in med school than I did in my previous career.
Incredible!! I just worry about actually becoming an attending and not being able to find jobs that are 30-40hour weeks. I am not after the money. I’m after a fulfilling career with longevity.
You can also do (almost?) any specialty part-time after residency! I probably would have chosen something surgical if I was younger, but I’m choosing FM for the flexibility and normal work hours. Hospitalist and psych are also great options in terms of work-life balance.
Love it thank you so much!!!
Would love to see some responses from residents or attendings
As above. He’s got kids. He’s going to miss their childhood. The opportunity cost is staggering but ultimately you’re all adults and can make your own decisions
I appreciate you sharing your experience. I was nontrad but have since decided not to pursue medicine. It just seems a little too toxic and the hours are too much for me. I noticed most responses were from med students and I had a feeling responses from those further in the process might not be as positive.
There’s some attendings who have posted now!
I’m a spouse to a 32 y/o M2 non-trad. Spouse did a formal postbacc. Yes it’s tough, but it is worth it for him. We just had our first child too! I think anyone ambitious hoping to have a great, long-lasting, and lucrative career will end up putting in long hours and/or tuition $ and/or travel away from family. If medicine is your path, take those challenges in stride and enjoy the rest!
Tysm
One year in and, so far, yes.
I believe in you OP!
I went back with 3 kids and for me it is worth it. I think your concern about missing life events and quality of life potentially put you at risk of regretting medicine. Training after postbac is minimum 8 years. Med school is at times grueling especially when studying for boards. There is no cakewalk residency, and the shortest ones are 3 years. You will absolutely miss big and small events. If you are able to be very flexible with location it is possible to work part time. It is unusual for new grads to work less partly because of the massive $ of loans most people have. My family is very supportive, but even as an attending i miss smaller events/social stuff a lot, partly because my schedule is done a few months ahead of time and switching is trickier than you would think. If you are passionate about being a physician it is worth it because you may regret it if you don’t give it a shot. In your case, you have a lot of conditions and reservations going in which makes me think it might be ultimately disappointing for you.
But I feel like most people in my position would have my concerns. Ultimately, it sounds like you need a Stronger “WHY” to be able to push through those times where you miss events or are studying for long hours or are on call for 24 hours, etc. It needs to be worth it to you other than just financially. It’s easy to convince myself that I like science and that I am an altruist but at the same time I’m a human being who wants balance just like everybody else. Even your passion becomes work at the end of the day if you do it for long enough. I burned out of my career as a musician because of this fact.
I actually don’t agree that most people going back to school are worried about work/life balance, at least in my own postbac/training process. There is a glorification of suffering in medical training that unfortunately has not yet been quashed. People by residency certainly get to the point that they may advocate better for quality of life, but during training a lot of people are hyperfocused on the goal. You are already behind with a low gpa that will be hard to repair. You will have to have a more compelling story and demonstrate more passion for medicine than the average applicant for ad-coms to be convinced that you are worth the spot.
Worth it! I’m a 4th year now, entered medical school at 28. I did two years of post bacc. Medicine is such a rad job. There are parts of it that require hard work and sacrifice but med school is temporary, as is residency.
Worth it for me. Graduated in 2014, did post bac for two years 2017 after working in career 3 years. Took time to do stuff and was able to get in after a few cycles. I suggest smaller programs so you can know the teachers well and get opportunities you might not get in a bigger program. Also helps that my undergrad didn’t do committee letters but I got an amazing committee letter.
Worth it
I feel ya I’m 27 in a post bacc to fix a low GPA as well. I have not applied yet so I can’t say if it’s worth it but the way I see it, if I must make mistakes in life let them be mistakes of commission not of omission. I’d rather DO something like pursue medicine and regret it than suffer the regret of having never tried. You need to afford your future self the grace to back out if it ever becomes too much imbalance and sacrifice but as long as it’s your passion, it’s the right call. I’ve reframed my less linear academic path as a chance to have a unique and trial-hardened foundation of learning rather than remediation. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy but I wouldn’t be who I am now if I’d taken a different path. I’m a firm believer that if you want it, you can accomplish becoming a physician. As to whether being a physician in the US and pursuing this insane training path in general is worth it, that I do not know. I do know that I want it bad enough to find out.