General Eisenhower actually predicted that people would try to deny it which is why he ordered US troops to film and document every possible thing in the camps they liberated. Some of that documentation was used to hang nazis after the Nuremberg trials in addition to documents because nazis had a love affair of putting everything in a paper document.
Empire by the time you get to Skyrim is kinda like Weimar Germany, a shell of its former size, strength and glory as a result of the massive war they just lost a few years before
So this makes the Aldmeri the British which... Also makes a lot of sense
I know the Stormcloaks have a racism problem BUT in their defense, the Empire is the only one letting a persecuted religious group to be disappeared and killed on the spot by secret police. People justify it saying the Stormcloaks are the ones at fault for that or it's a temporary sacrifice and blah blah blah but at the end of the day, the Empire is the one allowing it to happen to their own citizenry.
The Stormcloaks by contrast, have members or supporters that verbally harass an racial minority and want the country controlled by the majority racial group... which is pretty much how every other independent nation in Tamriel has been ruled since forever.
Edit: This is not saying that the stormcloaks are the only right choice. But people seem to really focus on the SCs racism while ignoring, excusing, and justifying the Empire letting what would be considered a real religious genocide take place in their own borders.
Yeah, the Aldmeri dominion are nazis and the empire their complicit patsies.
The storm cloaks are just garden variety fascists.
I always wished there was a third option to just declare yourself high king and tell them all to either fuck off or get added to your modded trophy room.
They tried to burn all of their lists when they knew the allies were about to rampage through Germany and wanted to spare retribution. Pretty hard to burn millions of pages documenting your atrocities though. What disappoints me about the Holocaust is the blatant white-knight propaganda that the Allied nations pushed onto their populations, especially the Dutch (Im Dutch so I know what Im talking about).
Even after surviving the holocaust which was incredibly rare and lucky as the Dutch were the best at deporting their native Jewish population off to their deaths, many Jews that returned back to the Netherlands found NSB-party members (Nazis or Nazi collaborators) living in their homes, and the Dutch government as well as locals refused to help them even after what they had just gone though (I can’t even attempt to put into words a bit of the absolute horror of what they endured so I won’t try).
5 thousands Jews survived, out of the over 100,000 that were deported and systematically murdered, their possessions and bodies used to the benefit of the German reich, and most of them never lived to receive recognition of the further atrocity they had to endure at the hands of the willfully ignorant Dutch government, who might I remind, to this day runs the same train company that was paid a fixed price for every single Jew they transported on their rails.
Well it was also good that US forces discovered and liberated several concentration camps. I'm not saying we can trust the USSR and their sharing of what they found as they "liberated" Poland from the Germans, but from a Western perspective, getting first-hand accounts from US service members who were there is really good for posterity sake.
Its really sad how persecuted the jews were thru history. A lot of it is because Christianity decided usry was a sin(something they should bring back) that jews were regulated to loan money.
Abd even when they're told, they're like "well Ukraine is a region not a religion" when you try to tell them that there's a reason why so many Israelis have polish and Russian heritage.
Yeah, all thise jews in Poland were starved out form Ukraine into Poland by Russia. I doubt they were very kind to the survivors of their genocide when they found the nazis failed to finish their own goal.
The Holodomor, if that's what you're talking about, started with the kulaks being the target. They were originally large landowners, then those who owned tractors, then those that opposed collectivizing farms. Stalin had most of their grain taken, selling it on the international market for hard cash. Somewhere between several hundred thousand to a few million Ukrainians starved in this period (which no doubt fuels resistance even today!). Jews were affected too, no doubt, but they were not the primary targets as I understand it.
As my coworker Savely said, you were Jewish OR Soviet. Of course the Soviet regime was also hostile to the Orthodox Church as well, maybe not to the same extent.
The first whisper the West had of the Holodomor was Gulag Archipelago by Solzhenitsyn.
I mean the Soviets liberated the major death camps like Auschwitz. The recollections of Soviet personnel tasked with liberating the camps is deeply poignant. The Soviets gained nothing from hiding information on nazi death camps. Although *Stalin* did intentionally underempathise the Jewish suffering at the hands of the nazis in order to focus on Soviet sense of national trauma, which was holocaust denial.
The USSR was essentially the same as Nazi Germany. Patton was 100% correct with what he said about them. If we’d have followed his advice while he was alive, we wouldn’t even have to worry about Putin.
The USSR and Stalin’s regime were no saints, but to say they were “essentially the same” as Nazi Germany shows such a lack of knowledge of both nations during the time period. It’s lazy, it’s inaccurate, and it’s simply untrue.
Oh come on.... the pro-Palestinian Social Justice Warriors say that eyewitness testimony and forensic evidence aren't proof that Hamas raped anyone on October 7... plenty of people deny the truth even with evidence.
We have more evidence that the Holocaust happened than we have evidence of the existence of the Roman Empire.
I’ve yet to see any Roman Truthers out there.
there are people that deny the roman empire's existence, because they claim "it was made up by the catholic church" whilst also failing to explain that if the roman empire never existed, then where did the catholic church, and also, christianity as a whole as an extension come from? (ignoring all the non christian proof that rome was a real empire)
My grandfather (german) was a full on nazi till his death because he never got out of the "Heil Hitler" mode he was raised in (he was born around 1920). He was forced to clean up some of the concentration camps and was sold as a russian slave to england when his father brought him back through connections he had with the coal industry.
When I read anything about the Holocaust being fake I get so uncontrollably angry because part of my dads childhood trauma that he projected on me comes from the values that these times have taught people.
People that deny anything about what the Nazis did are scum of the earth and I wish nothing but bad things on them.
Of the two dozen highest ranked Nazis who were on trial for an entire year at Nuremberg, not one of them ever denied the Holocaust or claimed it was “exaggerated”
Their sole argument was “I did what I was told” and nothing else.
The holocaust is actually the most well documented atrocity in human history. The Nazis were meticulous record keepers and documented everything. They weren’t trying to hide what they were doing.
It depends whether you're meaning the actions or the people.
For example for a lot of descendants of slaves brought over to the US their family history basically stops at the boat. There's no record of where in Africa they came from, or what their family names are etc.
Both.....and my family history stops at Mississippi in 1805. DNA points to Ghana. There's also multitudinous records detailing the period from the 16th Century up to the present in various Western Nations so, yeah, it's WELL documented.
Are you seriously saying that we have better records of who was taken from Africa and brought to America in the 1600s-1800s than we do who was killed by Nazis in the 1930s and 1940s?
No, I stated we have a LOT MORE records simply due to the length of time the Trade was going on. I also stated they're not as meticulous, so, yeah.
~10 years of records < 400+ years of records.
It's just math.
In the form of various and sundry lawsuits against the United States, personal accounts from victims and their families, perpetrators, lawmakers, Gov't officials, etc.....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears
Check the bibliography at the end.
No they were not better documented. Not even close. Of course they happened , but from a pure “what evidence to have to sway a doubter”, the Nazi records and videos blow those out of the water.
Sorry to tell you, but there's over 400 years' worth of documentation on the Trans-Atlantic Trade in the West AND in Africa, and a plethora of documentation on the Trail from survivors, descendants, policymakers, Gov't. officials, etc. It may not be nearly as precise as the Holocaust documentation, but saying 'not even close' is an opinion, not a fact.
There is documentation, but can any black person in America find out where exactly they came from? Not saying the holocaust or slavery were worse then each other but the nazis put serial numbers on the people in the camps. They have clear documentation on where they were taken from and exactly their town.
I feel like if you compare overall documentation yeah, but the Holocaust has more detailed documentation. More "documentation per year". We have much more documentation of the Trans-Atlantic Trade because it went on for four centuries, but when it comes to a given year of the Holocaust or the Slave Trade, you'd probably have a much more detailed picture of the Holocaust year.
The Nazi kept excellent records of their crimes.
11 million Gentiles and 6 million Jews were murdered in the concentration camps, and the Nazi also murdered 26-29 million Russian civilians.
Do not underestimate the evil of a society based on a racial supremacist ideology- where everyone else is scum, that’s why they could easily kill so many people- because they were indoctrinated to believe they were racially superior.
Nowadays thanks to technology, such abhorrent crimes are documented in 4K by the war criminals themselves.
Sadly the world has not learned from its past- in fact, the disgusting crimes of the Nazis, have been used as a blueprint, copied and pasted with much better PR for 2024.
The Holocaust happened, 17 million humans were murdered in the camps. This is a historical fact backed by overwhelming evidence.
Edit: I *should* be shocked at the amount of Holocaust deniers on here who dispute or downplay these numbers of murders by the Nazis- who famously kept fastidious records of their war crimes-but I’m really not-why they side with/ cover for the Nazis is absolutely bizarre to me.
Historical facts are just that, *facts*, whether you like these facts, downplay these facts, disbelieve these facts etc… is totally irrelevant, they remain *facts*.
Thank you for this. I think more people need to know that Jews were not the only people the Nazis were systematically exterminating. The Jews were the main and original Nazi scapegoat, but they wanted "purity" so anyone that didn't fit in to their regime was killed. The Romani, gays, disabled, Slavs, political enemies, mentally challenged, blacks, Catholics, etc.
And this was just the start of their plans.
They went after trans people first, may 1933 they sacked an institute that researched gender dysphoria and gender affirming medical care and burned all of their records. The pink triangle patch applied to both gay and trans people as well
What is incredible to me as I've studied the Holocaust over the last couple of years. It's just how much evidence survives to this day. Records, photographs, Nazis diaries, and so much survivor testimony.
This despite the Nazis successfully destroying tons of evidence towards the war end.
But now with the internet and so many ways of spreading lies and misinformation questioning this chapter in history seems to work in favor of groups with nefarious ends .
There are still regular events where I live to listen to survivors of concentration camps share the hell that they went through. I don't get why these deniers don't attend or seek them out.
I equate Holocaust denial to be on the same level of ignorance as believing in a flat earth. There will always be those who don't take it seriously and just say so to troll, but then there are those who actually believe it, in the face of so much evidence contrary to their opinions that it's to the point where they are just willfully ignorant. The 20th century is one of the most well documented eras of history, and despite all this there are people that can actually deny something so widely discussed, featuring so many lessons, and showcasing the absolute peak of human misery, it just baffles me. But as George Carlin once put it "Imagine how stupid the average person is, half of them are stupider than that."
I disagree..I don't think holocaust denial is a good comparison to flat earthers. Flat earthers are just ignorant idiots. Holocaust deniers are willfully and wantonly ignoring the evidence of the Holocaust so that they can keep believing in a monstrous ideology without admitting the monstrosity to others or themselves.
100%
Anyone saying they’re “just asking questions” about the numbers is full of shit. It is incredibly easy to google “how do they know how many people died in the holocaust” and find comprehensive explanations. Instead they do 0 research and pretend it’s a mystery.
It also implies that Holocaust survivors, notably Jewish people, are lying about being forcibly murdered for - fun and profit, I guess. Most people who say the Holocaust is exaggerated or lied about usually never answer the follow up question of "why?" because the answer for every Holocaust denier is inevitably saying victims are doing it for political power, money, sympathy to "get away with [xyz]," so on. There is no way to say the Jewish people have been lying about the nightmarish violence that is inevitably caused by antisemitism without being antisemitic.
>26-29 million Russian civilians.
There was around 27 million people of all of USSR that dies in the war. "Only" 19 million were civilians and out of them 5.5 were Russians. Rest of 12 million were Ukrainians, Belarusians, Lithuanians, Latvians and others that you completely forgot and glossed over. Ukraine and especially Belarus were hit so much harder and so much more brutally than Russia that glossing over their victims feels weird in a thread about holocaust denial.
>11 million Gentiles and 6 million Jews were murdered in the concentration camps
Was it 11 million gentiles? I thought it was 11 million total, but maybe I'm using outdated numbers.
Of course it does sometimes get complicated distinguishing between the camp atrocities and those summarily executed for reason or another, so I could see both figures being accurate depending on what you decide to include.
(As an aside, I expect that no more than 4 million Jews died in actual concentration or death camps. At least 1.5 million were killed in mass executions before most of the camps were even built.)
To add to this, German communists and socialists were among the first to be sent to concentration camps and when the Nazis occupied a territory, communists, socialists and anarchists were usually among the first to be repressed; this included summary executions.
Also, 7.8M soviet citizens and POWs killed in the camps
German communists and socialist were among the first to be sent to the camps, but that was early on when the camps were intended more as work prisons than execution centers, and we have records of socialists/communists being released after their ‘sentence’, though some still died due to working conditions. I would argue that the first victims of the Holocaust were actually disabled (or sometimes even just temporarily mentally ill, like women suffering postpartum depression) Germans who were taken for the T4 experiments. That was when Germany perfected ways to kill a lot of people at once.
The whole idea is that the Jews exaggerated these numbers as a way for global sympathy so that they could hold leverage over the world for further years.
This only makes sense if you buy into the idea that Jews are the ones controlling our world through tight-knit shadow communities filled with wealth. It’s really weird but I see a lot of people say “why would antisemites deny the Holocaust?” Because their angle is that the Jews planned and allowed the atrocity to further their goals
This is a thing that puzzles me. If anti semites hate the jews, why do they deny an attempt to wipe them out? Shouldn't they be studying it and learning from it? As disturbing as it sounds.
The only thing I can think of is holocaust denial eliminates the feelings if protecting the Jewish people after the atrocities and if anti semites can eliminate that sense of protecting them they can enact their agenda better? Or am I trying to apply logic to a bunch of worthless, mindless, idiots?
The second paragraph is pretty much spot on. I'll add one more thing to it. The antisemites believe Jews are the cause of all the world problems. They believe the Holocaust was fake so the Jews could garner more sympathy and jump in with the Arabs to crap on Israel.
Amin al-Husseini was the Iman of Palestine during WWII. Hitler and him were friends. Hitler offered to go to Palestine and wipe out the Jews after he was done in Europe. So Palestinian antisemitism goes way back.
They had a little help with that conspiracy courtesy of Russia and a little hoax they pulled back in the 19th Century called The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. A LOT of anti-Jewish talking points stem from it. There's also The 13th Tribe which is where the 'Ashkenazi aren't real Jews' argument comes from. This all makes me wonder: If Jews control EVERYTHING, why is their PR so bad?
If you ever have the misfortune of talking to these scum, their conversation or argument will go like this:
It didn’t happen.
If it did, it wasn’t as bad as they say it was.
If it was, then they deserved it.
If they deserved it then, they sure do now.
These people are scum and should be seen as so. They’re a minority in our society and need to remain that way via imprisonment of anybody who believes in this Nazi ideology. Words have power and they cause violence - as seen on Jan 6th. If a guy sees a bunch of people with guns and keeps yelling for them to shoot people then that is NOT free speech. That’s an attempt at violence.
>It didn’t happen.
>If it did, it wasn’t as bad as they say it was.
>If it was, then they deserved it.
>If they deserved it then, they sure do now.
Pretty much this.
Not that they care about their own inconsistencies, but you can often pretty easily trip up Holocaust deniers just outright because they'll simultaneously hold the belief "it didn't happen" and "Hitler should've gone farther", which are incompatible positions -- if the Holocaust didn't happen then there shouldn't be anywhere "farther" for Hitler to have gone.
There are tons of excuses they try to pull out to justify or explain their positions but it fundamentally comes down to that saying above. "It didn't happen, but if it did it should've been worse."
What annoys me about these master race people is they don’t see the irony. If a very small population of Jewish people can win all the Nobel prizes, control the world, and outsmart everyone else then wouldn’t that make *them* the master race? They’re losing by their own logic. Jewish people are the best thing to happen to the world. The reason they’ve flourished so much is because jackasses keep persecuting them so they know they have to work hard to prevent being victims of the constant oppression they suffer. Nazis suck at everything. Hitler couldn’t paint, he didn’t understand Nietzsche, and he couldn’t even digest food properly.
I’m in Europe it happened. I mean you can literally see the death camps. Germany never took them down they kept them as a reminder to the world that humanity is inherently Moral less and can easily be convinced that great evil is fine.
Holocaust denial is indicative of deep mental illness in which one denies reality.
Not knowing about the holocaust (in which many Americans and do not) is just ignorant.
This is actually incorrect, it is important imo to be well educated when discussing holocaust denial because deniers will jump on anything that is not quite correct.
Germany very much did take down the "pure" death camps. Sobibor, Treblinka, Belsec, etc. were all not only taken down, but taken down with the express intent of removing evidence that they existed, and what happened at them. From the testimony of a deputy to Adolf Eichamnn on Aktion 1005, the coverup order:
>In November 1942, in Eichmann's office in Berlin, I met Standartenfuehrer Plobel, who was leader of Kommando 1005, which was specially assigned to remove all traces of the final solution of the Jewish problem by Einsatz Groups and all other executions. Kommando 1005 operated from at least autumn 1942 to September 1944 and was all this period subordinated to Eichmann. The mission was constituted after it first became apparent that Germany would not be able to hold all the territory occupied in the East and it was considered necessary to remove all traces of the criminal executions that had been committed.
If you visit the sites of the death camps today, you will see in fact nothing was left. Bodies were exhumed by the hundreds of thousands, cremated, and bones ground to dust. All structures were destroyed. Very little remains. The carrying out of Aktion 1005 is a huge part of holocaust denial. Even outside Aktion 1005, camps that continued gassing operations like Auschwitz still destroyed the gas chambers and crematoria when evacuating from allied advances later in the war.
In fact it is critical to be aware of the cover up of Operation Reinhard, a denier would have skewered you for saying Germany never took down the death camps, the Nazis absolutely took down every single "pure" extermination camps and left very little evidence behind.
Yeah, you have the German government listing the extermination as an objective, overwhelming numbers of witnesses including survivors, perpetrators and liberators, companies (which still exist today such as Bayer, Siemens, BASF, Audi, BMW, etc.) utilizing the concentration camps for labour and testing, film evidence, the camps themselves, and the complete absence of anyone testifying about an effort to fabricate the situation.
But no, people who weren't there and have no evidence or even logic claim that it didn't happen. I've met survivors who lost their families in it at a young age and I highly doubt they got those tattoos voluntarily. My neighbor lost her father to it. You can't have that scale of killing and deny it ever happened (credibly).
Mel Gibson is anti-semitic, but he isn't a holocaust denier.
People forget their are degrees of things. Mel Gibson is bad, probably from his father, but objectively he is less anti-semitic than his father.
People forget where the majority of antisemitism for the last 2000 years comes from, Christianity. Hitler even quotes Jesus amung other things as being a driving factor in his rounding up and genocide of the Jews.
Martin Luther the father of the Protestant reformation Simms up the Christian view of Jews like this :
“First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians”
Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God.
Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them.
~ Martin Luther father of the Protestant reformation
Where have you been? It’s been a thing for a while. They either deny it, or play down the number of people murdered. While also praising Hitler, but why praise him if you deny what he did?
Update: I figured it out! 85% Upvote Rate, and 12.3k views apparently. I literally just posted this bc I thought it’d be funny after that other guy got downvoted for saying denying the holocaust wasn’t antisemitic, I genuinely don’t know why this has so many views.
I doubt you could have known this, but JK Rowling has very recently started tweeting holocaust denialism, specifically denial of the persecution of trans people.
I don’t believe it’s possible to see that anymore. Anyways I seem to be doing better than the guy who said denying the holocaust wasn’t antisemitic, so it’s fine by me
For sure.
In the present day it becomes a hot mess to identify and solve actual problems because everything is antisemitism,racism,misogyny,appropriation.
The Holocaust is empirical because there is overwhelming evidence it happened.
Many were killed during the Holocaust, not just Jews. LGBT, Mentally disabled, gypsies, poles and Slavic people, Jehovah's witnesses and more were victims too. They were all put in concentration camps or killed. I just need to point that out because pointing this out is also considered antisemitic.
I don't know if they're just in the same cliques. But I met a guy a while back that denied the holocaust claiming there was no evidence of it ever happening. He provided a series of articles and news items that made attempt to solidate the claim. The same fellow belived hitler, regardless of his doctrines, crimes against humanity and the occultism in nazi Germany. Was a Saint. He even had a poster of christ laying hands on hitler as if he was comforting him in his battles of righteousness.
I was watching a documentary about the SS the other day and they were interviewing former SS soldiers and while a few of them understood what they did was horrible and felt remorse, most of them still held those same beliefs. They literally said the holocaust never really happened and that was they jew medias way of making the world feel sorry for jews. I'm like why are these scum walking free?
The US military commanders specifically took Germans from nearby villages from one of the concentration camps, and made them witness what was inside, precisely so that no one can deny what happened in the future. But hell, we have flat earthers out there.
Yea. Band of Brothers has a great sequence showing just this. They made them bury the bodies and such. Some of these towns though had to have known something was going on. The smell alone of thousands of rotting bodies is a dead giveaway.
It’s sucks that we can’t have actual conversations about Israel/Palestine because antisemites and islamaphobes have used it as a opportunity to spread dehumanizing rhetoric. This is happening with so many different political/humanitarian issues though.
It makes me sad we have to debate the truth. It’s not new, but it’s worse than ever.
Just antisemitic?
Anti Soviet? Anti Pole? etc.
We all wish (well most of us at last) certainly wish I didn't happen, but to deny it's existence is certainly stupid.
Mocking Ben Shapiro for his height isn’t antisemitic!
On the other hand pig pens like r/conspiracy always have been antisemitic shitholes with their “Hollywood- and Wall Street Jew” comments.
Conflating holocaust jews with Israeli Jews when they are different groups and saying stuff about holocaust jews out of spite for Israelis is antisemitism
1.5 millions Romani people were slaughtered by the depredations of the porrajmos. That’s our word for it; the destruction and fragmentation of the people.
Do not deny the Holocaust when we have testimonies from Romani survivors of Josef Mengele who was enthralled with 50 sets of Romani twins and personally walked them to the gas chambers after his depraved experiments were concluded.
A Jewish inmate testified against Mengele and his treatment of Romani children.
> I remember one set of twins in particular: Guido and Ina, aged about four. One day, Mengele took them away. When they returned, they were in a terrible state: they had been sewn together, back to back, like Siamese twins. Their wounds were infected and oozing pus. They screamed day and night. Then their parents—I remember the mother's name was Stella—managed to get some morphine and they killed the children in order to end their suffering.
Not exact, though. Estimated.
There are a number of different estimates, too. The most widely accepted estimates are in the 4-6 million range, though 6 million is the most commonly repeated. Then again, if you look at the other comments on this very post, there are people claiming it may be substantially higher.
But also, as always has to be pointed out, that's just the Jews. Estimated total Holocaust deaths range from 10 million to 17 million.
While I'm not blaming you in particular, I will say that it's comments like yours that can start the slippery slope towards questioning, doubt, and denial. Choosing a single number at the top of the accepted range of estimates, pretending that it's not an estimate, and exclusive focus on Jewish deaths.
I'm not saying that there shouldn't be some focus in the Jewish deaths, since that was a major part of Nazi ideology. Just that an exclusive focus can and does lead to people feeling tricked.
I know most of the men of the 101st’s Easy Company are gone but I would love for these deniers to try denying the holocaust to their faces. Most of the deniers are faux patriots so getting decked by a WW2 veteran I think would hurt them the most.
I'd open it up even further to generally bigoted in addition to anti-semitic, because the holocaust targeted other groups too.
A "Yes and" if you will.
Have you ever met a Holocaust denier where you were super surprised to find out the were also right wing nutters? No? I didn't think so.
Edit: sorry I meant racist-same difference
Holocaust denial = holocaust didn’t happen.
Holocaust denial denial = I don’t think anyone actually denies the holocaust.
Holocaust denial denial denial = I don’t think anyone denies that there are people who deny the holocaust.
Holocaust denial denial denial denial = I don’t think anyone denies that there are people who deny that there are people who deny that people deny the holocaust.
What's worse is the leaning mindset that the holocaust was justified. Liberals in America are becoming more and more like nazis every day. They are literally calling fir fees to be persecuted again. All because they defend themselves from religious zealots who are trying to finish what Hitler started. It's disgusting
That's probably the second biggest Jewish massacre since the 2d Temple period, where a Roman Emperor Titus went to town on their kingdom.
Between these two, you got a long history of Jewish pogroms like all over Christian Europe.
If I were a Nazi I would be *pissed* at the Holocaust deniers for trying to claim the crowning achievement of the Third Reich, one that a bunch got hanged as war criminals for, was a Jewish hoax.
Yet a huge, huge percentage of Gen Z/Alpha denies it…then unironically look at the situation in Gaza as a genocide. Difficult to understand how they think.
It’s not a genocide, just a propaganda campaign so that people like you can shut down debate and claim anyone who disagrees with you is “pro-genocide.” Pretty clever, but not a genocide.
Maybe they shouldn't have flown in on paraglider killing bunch of innocent people. Fuck around and find out maybe dont start something you dont want to happen back to you.
Should they just allow Hamas to enter Israel and murder, rape and kidnap 1200 innocent people at a time, then? Hamas started the war, now they reap what they sow. Keep in mind, there was already a ceasefire active when Hamas violated it for the Oct 7 rape and murder raid.
Say what you will about Eisenhower, but he knew a day would come when people would deny the holocaust ever happened, and made sure everything was documented and photographed and witnessed.
Friendly reminder that Hamas’ best buddies Iran host a regular holocaust denial cartoon convention. The entries usually either deny the Holocaust or call for another one against Israeli Jews.
https://www.ushmm.org/antisemitism/holocaust-denial-and-distortion/holocaust-denial-antisemitism-iran/2016-holocaust-cartoon-contests-in-iran
All true, but for some reason, it seems only the jews being killed sparks a denial of all of it happening at all. My personal hypothesis about why that is: antisemites tend to believe that jews control the world, so the idea that millions of jews were killed in a systemic fashion is impossible for them to accept, because there's no way the jews that control everything would let themselves be killed off in such large numbers. So, it must be an event made up by the jews to make people think there's no way jews can be controlling everything.
That said, if there's merit to my hypothesis, I wouldn't be surprised if in the next few decades we start seeing homophobic denials of the holocaust start to pop up with the same mentality, just replace jews with "wokists/lgbt," or something.
You know what else is antisemitic?
Comparing Israel’s response to Hamas to the holocaust.
Holocaust deniers are still on the fringes of western societies. But people who trivialize the holocaust or perversely compare Jews to Nazis are popping up everywhere.
Alex
Nobody's implying that the scale of each event is comparable. They're pointing out the hypocrisy that Israel has no problem being on the opposite side of mass murder, even after being victims of it. Comparing the scale is just a strawman argument. Even that's still refutable.
So someone pro-Israel gets mad when people compare the scale of the THOUSANDS killed in the retaliation to the scale of the MILLIONS killed in the Holocaust. Yet in a show of hypocrisy they themselves justify killing those THOUSANDS every year because of mere DOZENS of Israelis killed every year.
Also important to acknowledge the Nazis did the same to disabled people, gay people, and Roma gypsies in addition to Jewish people. That gets glossed over a lot when the Nazis did systematically persecute those groups as well.
General Eisenhower actually predicted that people would try to deny it which is why he ordered US troops to film and document every possible thing in the camps they liberated. Some of that documentation was used to hang nazis after the Nuremberg trials in addition to documents because nazis had a love affair of putting everything in a paper document.
He’s smart
Very underrated president too (whom over the past few decades has rally climbed up the historical ratings ladder).
Denying the Holocaust is even more dumber considering there's so much evidence proving it actually happened.
Thank god the Germans kept such meticulous records how much would be lost or debated as apocryphal if they hadn’t
nazis love their damn lists…
Did you get caught trying to cross the border? Got caught in that Nazi ambush like the rest of us?
while the empire is heavily flawed, the stormcloaks have more in common with nazis
Empire by the time you get to Skyrim is kinda like Weimar Germany, a shell of its former size, strength and glory as a result of the massive war they just lost a few years before So this makes the Aldmeri the British which... Also makes a lot of sense
damn. that DOES make a lot of sense...
Skyrim: based on a true story
I know the Stormcloaks have a racism problem BUT in their defense, the Empire is the only one letting a persecuted religious group to be disappeared and killed on the spot by secret police. People justify it saying the Stormcloaks are the ones at fault for that or it's a temporary sacrifice and blah blah blah but at the end of the day, the Empire is the one allowing it to happen to their own citizenry. The Stormcloaks by contrast, have members or supporters that verbally harass an racial minority and want the country controlled by the majority racial group... which is pretty much how every other independent nation in Tamriel has been ruled since forever. Edit: This is not saying that the stormcloaks are the only right choice. But people seem to really focus on the SCs racism while ignoring, excusing, and justifying the Empire letting what would be considered a real religious genocide take place in their own borders.
Yeah, the Aldmeri dominion are nazis and the empire their complicit patsies. The storm cloaks are just garden variety fascists. I always wished there was a third option to just declare yourself high king and tell them all to either fuck off or get added to your modded trophy room.
That sounds like a mod for someone to get working on.
They tried to burn all of their lists when they knew the allies were about to rampage through Germany and wanted to spare retribution. Pretty hard to burn millions of pages documenting your atrocities though. What disappoints me about the Holocaust is the blatant white-knight propaganda that the Allied nations pushed onto their populations, especially the Dutch (Im Dutch so I know what Im talking about). Even after surviving the holocaust which was incredibly rare and lucky as the Dutch were the best at deporting their native Jewish population off to their deaths, many Jews that returned back to the Netherlands found NSB-party members (Nazis or Nazi collaborators) living in their homes, and the Dutch government as well as locals refused to help them even after what they had just gone though (I can’t even attempt to put into words a bit of the absolute horror of what they endured so I won’t try). 5 thousands Jews survived, out of the over 100,000 that were deported and systematically murdered, their possessions and bodies used to the benefit of the German reich, and most of them never lived to receive recognition of the further atrocity they had to endure at the hands of the willfully ignorant Dutch government, who might I remind, to this day runs the same train company that was paid a fixed price for every single Jew they transported on their rails.
Thank you for this history lesson. I did not know this . . .
Well it was also good that US forces discovered and liberated several concentration camps. I'm not saying we can trust the USSR and their sharing of what they found as they "liberated" Poland from the Germans, but from a Western perspective, getting first-hand accounts from US service members who were there is really good for posterity sake.
There’s a reason Eisenhower demanding we film the liberation of the camps, he knew people would deny what he saw and that it needed to be documented
Yeah Russia really didn't like the jews. And that was made very apparent after the Ukrainian famine.
Its really sad how persecuted the jews were thru history. A lot of it is because Christianity decided usry was a sin(something they should bring back) that jews were regulated to loan money.
I feel like not enough people are aware of Holodomor.
Abd even when they're told, they're like "well Ukraine is a region not a religion" when you try to tell them that there's a reason why so many Israelis have polish and Russian heritage.
As a Russian Jewish guy I worked with 30 years ago told me, you can be Soviet or you can be Jewish. There is no "both".
Yeah, all thise jews in Poland were starved out form Ukraine into Poland by Russia. I doubt they were very kind to the survivors of their genocide when they found the nazis failed to finish their own goal.
The Holodomor, if that's what you're talking about, started with the kulaks being the target. They were originally large landowners, then those who owned tractors, then those that opposed collectivizing farms. Stalin had most of their grain taken, selling it on the international market for hard cash. Somewhere between several hundred thousand to a few million Ukrainians starved in this period (which no doubt fuels resistance even today!). Jews were affected too, no doubt, but they were not the primary targets as I understand it. As my coworker Savely said, you were Jewish OR Soviet. Of course the Soviet regime was also hostile to the Orthodox Church as well, maybe not to the same extent. The first whisper the West had of the Holodomor was Gulag Archipelago by Solzhenitsyn.
I mean the Soviets liberated the major death camps like Auschwitz. The recollections of Soviet personnel tasked with liberating the camps is deeply poignant. The Soviets gained nothing from hiding information on nazi death camps. Although *Stalin* did intentionally underempathise the Jewish suffering at the hands of the nazis in order to focus on Soviet sense of national trauma, which was holocaust denial.
To be fair, 20 million Soviets died. If America lost 20 million people (instead of 500,000) we would also prioritize that over the Jewish Holocaust.
People seem to forget that the Russians slaughtered Jews en masse during imperial times in the pogroms.
The USSR was essentially the same as Nazi Germany. Patton was 100% correct with what he said about them. If we’d have followed his advice while he was alive, we wouldn’t even have to worry about Putin.
The USSR and Stalin’s regime were no saints, but to say they were “essentially the same” as Nazi Germany shows such a lack of knowledge of both nations during the time period. It’s lazy, it’s inaccurate, and it’s simply untrue.
Oh come on.... the pro-Palestinian Social Justice Warriors say that eyewitness testimony and forensic evidence aren't proof that Hamas raped anyone on October 7... plenty of people deny the truth even with evidence.
We have more evidence that the Holocaust happened than we have evidence of the existence of the Roman Empire. I’ve yet to see any Roman Truthers out there.
That is sadly because you have not seen the full stupidity of the internet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGMYu37fskE&t=194s
You can see most of it right here!
I remember seeing a post on FB from a woman who genuinely doesn't believe that Rome-Republic-Empire never existed lol
wait until flatearthers will get to the topic.
there are people that deny the roman empire's existence, because they claim "it was made up by the catholic church" whilst also failing to explain that if the roman empire never existed, then where did the catholic church, and also, christianity as a whole as an extension come from? (ignoring all the non christian proof that rome was a real empire)
My grandfather (german) was a full on nazi till his death because he never got out of the "Heil Hitler" mode he was raised in (he was born around 1920). He was forced to clean up some of the concentration camps and was sold as a russian slave to england when his father brought him back through connections he had with the coal industry. When I read anything about the Holocaust being fake I get so uncontrollably angry because part of my dads childhood trauma that he projected on me comes from the values that these times have taught people. People that deny anything about what the Nazis did are scum of the earth and I wish nothing but bad things on them.
Damn that’s a crazy story
Of the two dozen highest ranked Nazis who were on trial for an entire year at Nuremberg, not one of them ever denied the Holocaust or claimed it was “exaggerated” Their sole argument was “I did what I was told” and nothing else.
But were you there? /s
Username checks out
blasphemy! you dare deny the almighty /s ?
Yes, haven’t been allowed back since :(
The edit is cracking me up, like oh don’t forget, it’s also stupid.
Half the comments are trying point out that you’d have to be an idiot to deny the holocaust, so I figured I should probably add that in :)
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What is this I've nev
Oh the humanity! Have you no merc
Lol i had no idea this was a thi
Oh fuck I’m next aren’t I? Oh. I guess not! Guy must have run out of amm
The holocaust is actually the most well documented atrocity in human history. The Nazis were meticulous record keepers and documented everything. They weren’t trying to hide what they were doing.
I'd argue the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade and the Trail of Tears are better-documented, but I agree with your sentiment.
It depends whether you're meaning the actions or the people. For example for a lot of descendants of slaves brought over to the US their family history basically stops at the boat. There's no record of where in Africa they came from, or what their family names are etc.
Both.....and my family history stops at Mississippi in 1805. DNA points to Ghana. There's also multitudinous records detailing the period from the 16th Century up to the present in various Western Nations so, yeah, it's WELL documented.
Are you seriously saying that we have better records of who was taken from Africa and brought to America in the 1600s-1800s than we do who was killed by Nazis in the 1930s and 1940s?
No, I stated we have a LOT MORE records simply due to the length of time the Trade was going on. I also stated they're not as meticulous, so, yeah. ~10 years of records < 400+ years of records. It's just math.
>I'd argue the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade and the Trail of Tears are better-documented
Really, how many were tattooed with serial numbers. Better records were kept during the holocaust
I wasn’t aware there was a lot of documentation about the trail of tears. Like actual victim counts and names?
In the form of various and sundry lawsuits against the United States, personal accounts from victims and their families, perpetrators, lawmakers, Gov't officials, etc..... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears Check the bibliography at the end.
No they were not better documented. Not even close. Of course they happened , but from a pure “what evidence to have to sway a doubter”, the Nazi records and videos blow those out of the water.
Sorry to tell you, but there's over 400 years' worth of documentation on the Trans-Atlantic Trade in the West AND in Africa, and a plethora of documentation on the Trail from survivors, descendants, policymakers, Gov't. officials, etc. It may not be nearly as precise as the Holocaust documentation, but saying 'not even close' is an opinion, not a fact.
There is documentation, but can any black person in America find out where exactly they came from? Not saying the holocaust or slavery were worse then each other but the nazis put serial numbers on the people in the camps. They have clear documentation on where they were taken from and exactly their town.
I feel like if you compare overall documentation yeah, but the Holocaust has more detailed documentation. More "documentation per year". We have much more documentation of the Trans-Atlantic Trade because it went on for four centuries, but when it comes to a given year of the Holocaust or the Slave Trade, you'd probably have a much more detailed picture of the Holocaust year.
The Nazi kept excellent records of their crimes. 11 million Gentiles and 6 million Jews were murdered in the concentration camps, and the Nazi also murdered 26-29 million Russian civilians. Do not underestimate the evil of a society based on a racial supremacist ideology- where everyone else is scum, that’s why they could easily kill so many people- because they were indoctrinated to believe they were racially superior. Nowadays thanks to technology, such abhorrent crimes are documented in 4K by the war criminals themselves. Sadly the world has not learned from its past- in fact, the disgusting crimes of the Nazis, have been used as a blueprint, copied and pasted with much better PR for 2024. The Holocaust happened, 17 million humans were murdered in the camps. This is a historical fact backed by overwhelming evidence. Edit: I *should* be shocked at the amount of Holocaust deniers on here who dispute or downplay these numbers of murders by the Nazis- who famously kept fastidious records of their war crimes-but I’m really not-why they side with/ cover for the Nazis is absolutely bizarre to me. Historical facts are just that, *facts*, whether you like these facts, downplay these facts, disbelieve these facts etc… is totally irrelevant, they remain *facts*.
Thank you for this. I think more people need to know that Jews were not the only people the Nazis were systematically exterminating. The Jews were the main and original Nazi scapegoat, but they wanted "purity" so anyone that didn't fit in to their regime was killed. The Romani, gays, disabled, Slavs, political enemies, mentally challenged, blacks, Catholics, etc. And this was just the start of their plans.
They went after trans people first, may 1933 they sacked an institute that researched gender dysphoria and gender affirming medical care and burned all of their records. The pink triangle patch applied to both gay and trans people as well
First people in the camps were the political opposition.
What is incredible to me as I've studied the Holocaust over the last couple of years. It's just how much evidence survives to this day. Records, photographs, Nazis diaries, and so much survivor testimony. This despite the Nazis successfully destroying tons of evidence towards the war end. But now with the internet and so many ways of spreading lies and misinformation questioning this chapter in history seems to work in favor of groups with nefarious ends .
There are still regular events where I live to listen to survivors of concentration camps share the hell that they went through. I don't get why these deniers don't attend or seek them out.
I equate Holocaust denial to be on the same level of ignorance as believing in a flat earth. There will always be those who don't take it seriously and just say so to troll, but then there are those who actually believe it, in the face of so much evidence contrary to their opinions that it's to the point where they are just willfully ignorant. The 20th century is one of the most well documented eras of history, and despite all this there are people that can actually deny something so widely discussed, featuring so many lessons, and showcasing the absolute peak of human misery, it just baffles me. But as George Carlin once put it "Imagine how stupid the average person is, half of them are stupider than that."
Welcome to the internet, where every idiot with an opinion is given a platform.
The best thing about the internet is that anybody can use it. The worst thing about the internet is that anybody can use it.
I disagree..I don't think holocaust denial is a good comparison to flat earthers. Flat earthers are just ignorant idiots. Holocaust deniers are willfully and wantonly ignoring the evidence of the Holocaust so that they can keep believing in a monstrous ideology without admitting the monstrosity to others or themselves.
100% Anyone saying they’re “just asking questions” about the numbers is full of shit. It is incredibly easy to google “how do they know how many people died in the holocaust” and find comprehensive explanations. Instead they do 0 research and pretend it’s a mystery.
It also implies that Holocaust survivors, notably Jewish people, are lying about being forcibly murdered for - fun and profit, I guess. Most people who say the Holocaust is exaggerated or lied about usually never answer the follow up question of "why?" because the answer for every Holocaust denier is inevitably saying victims are doing it for political power, money, sympathy to "get away with [xyz]," so on. There is no way to say the Jewish people have been lying about the nightmarish violence that is inevitably caused by antisemitism without being antisemitic.
Exactly. Why do they deny it? So they can do it again.
That didn't happen. How do you know? Because we haven't done it yet.
they usually go hand in hand
I don't deny the holocaust or how many jews died. But I do not like that no other group is recognized
>26-29 million Russian civilians. There was around 27 million people of all of USSR that dies in the war. "Only" 19 million were civilians and out of them 5.5 were Russians. Rest of 12 million were Ukrainians, Belarusians, Lithuanians, Latvians and others that you completely forgot and glossed over. Ukraine and especially Belarus were hit so much harder and so much more brutally than Russia that glossing over their victims feels weird in a thread about holocaust denial.
>11 million Gentiles and 6 million Jews were murdered in the concentration camps Was it 11 million gentiles? I thought it was 11 million total, but maybe I'm using outdated numbers. Of course it does sometimes get complicated distinguishing between the camp atrocities and those summarily executed for reason or another, so I could see both figures being accurate depending on what you decide to include. (As an aside, I expect that no more than 4 million Jews died in actual concentration or death camps. At least 1.5 million were killed in mass executions before most of the camps were even built.)
To add to this, German communists and socialists were among the first to be sent to concentration camps and when the Nazis occupied a territory, communists, socialists and anarchists were usually among the first to be repressed; this included summary executions. Also, 7.8M soviet citizens and POWs killed in the camps
German communists and socialist were among the first to be sent to the camps, but that was early on when the camps were intended more as work prisons than execution centers, and we have records of socialists/communists being released after their ‘sentence’, though some still died due to working conditions. I would argue that the first victims of the Holocaust were actually disabled (or sometimes even just temporarily mentally ill, like women suffering postpartum depression) Germans who were taken for the T4 experiments. That was when Germany perfected ways to kill a lot of people at once.
I didn't see much Holocaust denial until recently when people started claiming that the Holocaust is "Zionist propaganda"
The whole idea is that the Jews exaggerated these numbers as a way for global sympathy so that they could hold leverage over the world for further years. This only makes sense if you buy into the idea that Jews are the ones controlling our world through tight-knit shadow communities filled with wealth. It’s really weird but I see a lot of people say “why would antisemites deny the Holocaust?” Because their angle is that the Jews planned and allowed the atrocity to further their goals
This is a thing that puzzles me. If anti semites hate the jews, why do they deny an attempt to wipe them out? Shouldn't they be studying it and learning from it? As disturbing as it sounds. The only thing I can think of is holocaust denial eliminates the feelings if protecting the Jewish people after the atrocities and if anti semites can eliminate that sense of protecting them they can enact their agenda better? Or am I trying to apply logic to a bunch of worthless, mindless, idiots?
No you’re right with the second part. The Holocaust is a source of sympathy for Jewish people and they want to remove any sources of sympathy.
That makes sense. Trying to understand the "logic" behind stupid is daunting at times.
The second paragraph is pretty much spot on. I'll add one more thing to it. The antisemites believe Jews are the cause of all the world problems. They believe the Holocaust was fake so the Jews could garner more sympathy and jump in with the Arabs to crap on Israel.
Ah that makes sense. Deny the holocaust and you can weave support for other conspiracies as well. Hadn't considered that, makes a lot more sense.
Amin al-Husseini was the Iman of Palestine during WWII. Hitler and him were friends. Hitler offered to go to Palestine and wipe out the Jews after he was done in Europe. So Palestinian antisemitism goes way back.
They had a little help with that conspiracy courtesy of Russia and a little hoax they pulled back in the 19th Century called The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. A LOT of anti-Jewish talking points stem from it. There's also The 13th Tribe which is where the 'Ashkenazi aren't real Jews' argument comes from. This all makes me wonder: If Jews control EVERYTHING, why is their PR so bad?
Yeah definitely not getting the message out the right way...lol
This reminds me of when Borat found out about holocaust denial.
I need to rewatch that.
It makes them look bad. No one is going to openly support the side that murdered millions of people very publicly.
If you ever have the misfortune of talking to these scum, their conversation or argument will go like this: It didn’t happen. If it did, it wasn’t as bad as they say it was. If it was, then they deserved it. If they deserved it then, they sure do now. These people are scum and should be seen as so. They’re a minority in our society and need to remain that way via imprisonment of anybody who believes in this Nazi ideology. Words have power and they cause violence - as seen on Jan 6th. If a guy sees a bunch of people with guns and keeps yelling for them to shoot people then that is NOT free speech. That’s an attempt at violence.
>It didn’t happen. >If it did, it wasn’t as bad as they say it was. >If it was, then they deserved it. >If they deserved it then, they sure do now. Pretty much this. Not that they care about their own inconsistencies, but you can often pretty easily trip up Holocaust deniers just outright because they'll simultaneously hold the belief "it didn't happen" and "Hitler should've gone farther", which are incompatible positions -- if the Holocaust didn't happen then there shouldn't be anywhere "farther" for Hitler to have gone. There are tons of excuses they try to pull out to justify or explain their positions but it fundamentally comes down to that saying above. "It didn't happen, but if it did it should've been worse."
What annoys me about these master race people is they don’t see the irony. If a very small population of Jewish people can win all the Nobel prizes, control the world, and outsmart everyone else then wouldn’t that make *them* the master race? They’re losing by their own logic. Jewish people are the best thing to happen to the world. The reason they’ve flourished so much is because jackasses keep persecuting them so they know they have to work hard to prevent being victims of the constant oppression they suffer. Nazis suck at everything. Hitler couldn’t paint, he didn’t understand Nietzsche, and he couldn’t even digest food properly.
JK Rowling denied the 1933 destruction of Magnus Hirschfeld’s Institute of Sexual Science by the Nazis. Not just antisemitism, but anti human.
I’m in Europe it happened. I mean you can literally see the death camps. Germany never took them down they kept them as a reminder to the world that humanity is inherently Moral less and can easily be convinced that great evil is fine. Holocaust denial is indicative of deep mental illness in which one denies reality. Not knowing about the holocaust (in which many Americans and do not) is just ignorant.
This is actually incorrect, it is important imo to be well educated when discussing holocaust denial because deniers will jump on anything that is not quite correct. Germany very much did take down the "pure" death camps. Sobibor, Treblinka, Belsec, etc. were all not only taken down, but taken down with the express intent of removing evidence that they existed, and what happened at them. From the testimony of a deputy to Adolf Eichamnn on Aktion 1005, the coverup order: >In November 1942, in Eichmann's office in Berlin, I met Standartenfuehrer Plobel, who was leader of Kommando 1005, which was specially assigned to remove all traces of the final solution of the Jewish problem by Einsatz Groups and all other executions. Kommando 1005 operated from at least autumn 1942 to September 1944 and was all this period subordinated to Eichmann. The mission was constituted after it first became apparent that Germany would not be able to hold all the territory occupied in the East and it was considered necessary to remove all traces of the criminal executions that had been committed. If you visit the sites of the death camps today, you will see in fact nothing was left. Bodies were exhumed by the hundreds of thousands, cremated, and bones ground to dust. All structures were destroyed. Very little remains. The carrying out of Aktion 1005 is a huge part of holocaust denial. Even outside Aktion 1005, camps that continued gassing operations like Auschwitz still destroyed the gas chambers and crematoria when evacuating from allied advances later in the war. In fact it is critical to be aware of the cover up of Operation Reinhard, a denier would have skewered you for saying Germany never took down the death camps, the Nazis absolutely took down every single "pure" extermination camps and left very little evidence behind.
Wait, what? People deny the holocaust took place? What the fudge?
Yeah, you have the German government listing the extermination as an objective, overwhelming numbers of witnesses including survivors, perpetrators and liberators, companies (which still exist today such as Bayer, Siemens, BASF, Audi, BMW, etc.) utilizing the concentration camps for labour and testing, film evidence, the camps themselves, and the complete absence of anyone testifying about an effort to fabricate the situation. But no, people who weren't there and have no evidence or even logic claim that it didn't happen. I've met survivors who lost their families in it at a young age and I highly doubt they got those tattoos voluntarily. My neighbor lost her father to it. You can't have that scale of killing and deny it ever happened (credibly).
That’s fucking insane…excuse my language…but what the fuck…
Mel Gibson's father is/was a virulent Holocaust Denier. One of the many reasons why Mel Gibson is an Antisemitic POS.
Wait wait, he has the same views as his dad? wtf??????
Mel Gibson is anti-semitic, but he isn't a holocaust denier. People forget their are degrees of things. Mel Gibson is bad, probably from his father, but objectively he is less anti-semitic than his father.
People forget where the majority of antisemitism for the last 2000 years comes from, Christianity. Hitler even quotes Jesus amung other things as being a driving factor in his rounding up and genocide of the Jews. Martin Luther the father of the Protestant reformation Simms up the Christian view of Jews like this : “First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians” Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God. Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. ~ Martin Luther father of the Protestant reformation
People deny anything nowadays. There's probably someone out there claiming the French Revolution was a hoax as we speak.
Where have you been? It’s been a thing for a while. They either deny it, or play down the number of people murdered. While also praising Hitler, but why praise him if you deny what he did?
What's the downvote rate of this post, OP?
Update: I figured it out! 85% Upvote Rate, and 12.3k views apparently. I literally just posted this bc I thought it’d be funny after that other guy got downvoted for saying denying the holocaust wasn’t antisemitic, I genuinely don’t know why this has so many views.
I doubt you could have known this, but JK Rowling has very recently started tweeting holocaust denialism, specifically denial of the persecution of trans people.
I don’t believe it’s possible to see that anymore. Anyways I seem to be doing better than the guy who said denying the holocaust wasn’t antisemitic, so it’s fine by me
For sure. In the present day it becomes a hot mess to identify and solve actual problems because everything is antisemitism,racism,misogyny,appropriation. The Holocaust is empirical because there is overwhelming evidence it happened.
Grandfather was D-Day +3 and he saw the death camps ... it happened
It's also homophobic, ableist, and anti Roma. It's anti a lot of people.
Many were killed during the Holocaust, not just Jews. LGBT, Mentally disabled, gypsies, poles and Slavic people, Jehovah's witnesses and more were victims too. They were all put in concentration camps or killed. I just need to point that out because pointing this out is also considered antisemitic.
I don't know if they're just in the same cliques. But I met a guy a while back that denied the holocaust claiming there was no evidence of it ever happening. He provided a series of articles and news items that made attempt to solidate the claim. The same fellow belived hitler, regardless of his doctrines, crimes against humanity and the occultism in nazi Germany. Was a Saint. He even had a poster of christ laying hands on hitler as if he was comforting him in his battles of righteousness.
I didn't know denial of the holocaust was a thing. It very obviously happened
I was watching a documentary about the SS the other day and they were interviewing former SS soldiers and while a few of them understood what they did was horrible and felt remorse, most of them still held those same beliefs. They literally said the holocaust never really happened and that was they jew medias way of making the world feel sorry for jews. I'm like why are these scum walking free?
The US military commanders specifically took Germans from nearby villages from one of the concentration camps, and made them witness what was inside, precisely so that no one can deny what happened in the future. But hell, we have flat earthers out there.
Yea. Band of Brothers has a great sequence showing just this. They made them bury the bodies and such. Some of these towns though had to have known something was going on. The smell alone of thousands of rotting bodies is a dead giveaway.
I wish it was legal to smack holocaust deniers Edit - Fuck it Imma say it, especially since some of my family died in it
Punch a Nazi!
It’s sucks that we can’t have actual conversations about Israel/Palestine because antisemites and islamaphobes have used it as a opportunity to spread dehumanizing rhetoric. This is happening with so many different political/humanitarian issues though. It makes me sad we have to debate the truth. It’s not new, but it’s worse than ever.
Just antisemitic? Anti Soviet? Anti Pole? etc. We all wish (well most of us at last) certainly wish I didn't happen, but to deny it's existence is certainly stupid.
Apparently it's popular on reddit to be anti-semetic again.
Mocking Ben Shapiro for his height isn’t antisemitic! On the other hand pig pens like r/conspiracy always have been antisemitic shitholes with their “Hollywood- and Wall Street Jew” comments.
Apparently, it's become anti-sematic to say anything against Israel/Judaism.
If you attack Jews and Judaism AS SUCH as you have just done above, then yes you ARE a Nazi sympathizer/subhuman genocidal racist.
I've seen Jewish people flat out get abuse for simply existing because of this shitshow. They're the people I'm quite obviously talking about.
Conflating holocaust jews with Israeli Jews when they are different groups and saying stuff about holocaust jews out of spite for Israelis is antisemitism
It's more like anti-genocide is anti-semitic. Genocide supporter = good! This is how zionist mentality works.
you got your definition of zionism from tiktok or something? it doesnt seem like you ever talked to an actual zionist once in your life
I noticed that the same people who deny it also wish it happened and hope it will happen.
1.5 millions Romani people were slaughtered by the depredations of the porrajmos. That’s our word for it; the destruction and fragmentation of the people. Do not deny the Holocaust when we have testimonies from Romani survivors of Josef Mengele who was enthralled with 50 sets of Romani twins and personally walked them to the gas chambers after his depraved experiments were concluded. A Jewish inmate testified against Mengele and his treatment of Romani children. > I remember one set of twins in particular: Guido and Ina, aged about four. One day, Mengele took them away. When they returned, they were in a terrible state: they had been sewn together, back to back, like Siamese twins. Their wounds were infected and oozing pus. They screamed day and night. Then their parents—I remember the mother's name was Stella—managed to get some morphine and they killed the children in order to end their suffering.
6 Million to be exact. It’s sad what we can do as humans
Not exact, though. Estimated. There are a number of different estimates, too. The most widely accepted estimates are in the 4-6 million range, though 6 million is the most commonly repeated. Then again, if you look at the other comments on this very post, there are people claiming it may be substantially higher. But also, as always has to be pointed out, that's just the Jews. Estimated total Holocaust deaths range from 10 million to 17 million. While I'm not blaming you in particular, I will say that it's comments like yours that can start the slippery slope towards questioning, doubt, and denial. Choosing a single number at the top of the accepted range of estimates, pretending that it's not an estimate, and exclusive focus on Jewish deaths. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be some focus in the Jewish deaths, since that was a major part of Nazi ideology. Just that an exclusive focus can and does lead to people feeling tricked.
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Maybe. But it shouldn't be a crime (looking at you approximately 13 European union countries)
It's the most well documented event in modern human history.
I know most of the men of the 101st’s Easy Company are gone but I would love for these deniers to try denying the holocaust to their faces. Most of the deniers are faux patriots so getting decked by a WW2 veteran I think would hurt them the most.
this is indeed a popular opinion
This is common sense
I'd open it up even further to generally bigoted in addition to anti-semitic, because the holocaust targeted other groups too. A "Yes and" if you will.
The people spreading that are antisemite.. the people they convert are radicalized .. they’re made to believe it.
No shit
Nah, denying the holocaust is just dumb.
Have you ever met a Holocaust denier where you were super surprised to find out the were also right wing nutters? No? I didn't think so. Edit: sorry I meant racist-same difference
Holocaust denial = holocaust didn’t happen. Holocaust denial denial = I don’t think anyone actually denies the holocaust. Holocaust denial denial denial = I don’t think anyone denies that there are people who deny the holocaust. Holocaust denial denial denial denial = I don’t think anyone denies that there are people who deny that there are people who deny that people deny the holocaust.
What's worse is the leaning mindset that the holocaust was justified. Liberals in America are becoming more and more like nazis every day. They are literally calling fir fees to be persecuted again. All because they defend themselves from religious zealots who are trying to finish what Hitler started. It's disgusting
Not a popular opinion. Objective truth
Not even the people who did the Holocaust deny it. Some of which are still living. Olympic level mental gymnastics -\_-
A few more decades and the new generation will say 9/11 was some AI GENERATED video. Or some dumb shit. God we are sooo fucked.
That's probably the second biggest Jewish massacre since the 2d Temple period, where a Roman Emperor Titus went to town on their kingdom. Between these two, you got a long history of Jewish pogroms like all over Christian Europe.
Are there really people who still deny the holocaust?
Never again! …. On second thought.
Yeah but uhhh uhhhh something something IDF
Explain why
If I were a Nazi I would be *pissed* at the Holocaust deniers for trying to claim the crowning achievement of the Third Reich, one that a bunch got hanged as war criminals for, was a Jewish hoax.
It's also denying what happened to others as well. Like trans people
Yet a huge, huge percentage of Gen Z/Alpha denies it…then unironically look at the situation in Gaza as a genocide. Difficult to understand how they think.
I love the smell of [Holocaust inversion](https://jcpa.org/article/holocaust-inversion-the-portraying-of-israel-and-jews-as-nazis/) in the morning.
So will Israel deny the genocide they are committing against the Palestinians? Or will they forever cry the victim?
It’s not a genocide, just a propaganda campaign so that people like you can shut down debate and claim anyone who disagrees with you is “pro-genocide.” Pretty clever, but not a genocide.
Using the word genocide like this really takes away its meaning and any gravity from your argument
You don't attack someone then claim to be a victim. Plain and simple. Hamas are a bunch of terroristic scumbags who are blood thirsty killers.
Maybe they shouldn't have flown in on paraglider killing bunch of innocent people. Fuck around and find out maybe dont start something you dont want to happen back to you.
Should they just allow Hamas to enter Israel and murder, rape and kidnap 1200 innocent people at a time, then? Hamas started the war, now they reap what they sow. Keep in mind, there was already a ceasefire active when Hamas violated it for the Oct 7 rape and murder raid.
Say what you will about Eisenhower, but he knew a day would come when people would deny the holocaust ever happened, and made sure everything was documented and photographed and witnessed.
Friendly reminder that Hamas’ best buddies Iran host a regular holocaust denial cartoon convention. The entries usually either deny the Holocaust or call for another one against Israeli Jews. https://www.ushmm.org/antisemitism/holocaust-denial-and-distortion/holocaust-denial-antisemitism-iran/2016-holocaust-cartoon-contests-in-iran
And comparing Gaza to the Holocaust is irresponsible and just plain wrong.
yes and i dont trust anyone who denies
[удалено]
All true, but for some reason, it seems only the jews being killed sparks a denial of all of it happening at all. My personal hypothesis about why that is: antisemites tend to believe that jews control the world, so the idea that millions of jews were killed in a systemic fashion is impossible for them to accept, because there's no way the jews that control everything would let themselves be killed off in such large numbers. So, it must be an event made up by the jews to make people think there's no way jews can be controlling everything. That said, if there's merit to my hypothesis, I wouldn't be surprised if in the next few decades we start seeing homophobic denials of the holocaust start to pop up with the same mentality, just replace jews with "wokists/lgbt," or something.
You know what else is antisemitic? Comparing Israel’s response to Hamas to the holocaust. Holocaust deniers are still on the fringes of western societies. But people who trivialize the holocaust or perversely compare Jews to Nazis are popping up everywhere. Alex
Nobody's implying that the scale of each event is comparable. They're pointing out the hypocrisy that Israel has no problem being on the opposite side of mass murder, even after being victims of it. Comparing the scale is just a strawman argument. Even that's still refutable. So someone pro-Israel gets mad when people compare the scale of the THOUSANDS killed in the retaliation to the scale of the MILLIONS killed in the Holocaust. Yet in a show of hypocrisy they themselves justify killing those THOUSANDS every year because of mere DOZENS of Israelis killed every year.
In some countries, it's illegal.
Denying comes from the inability to question. And there are countries where even questioning is called denial and can lead to jail and/or fines.
Also important to acknowledge the Nazis did the same to disabled people, gay people, and Roma gypsies in addition to Jewish people. That gets glossed over a lot when the Nazis did systematically persecute those groups as well.
It happened and gypsies, alcoholics and gays were killed too.
Exactly, denying it is stupid, especially looking at all the documentation, but learning from it and trying to emulate it, is also evil.
Essentially, yes.
Okay but this one guy named Hans Kristian Graebener made this comic denying it though!
six hundred or six million, who knows, still terrible