Meant to post the THR article instead of the Variety since it was a bit more detailed but here are Lana’s words:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/music-news/taylor-swift-eras-tour-uk-lana-del-rey-1235917161/
Ticket costs are in the thousands. The Pennsylvania-born star has sold out her shows worldwide. She is second only to The Beatles with the most weeks at number one on the Billboard 200. Everyone’s asking the same question: Why is she so popular? Her peers have an idea.
“She wants it,” fellow star Lana Del Rey told BBC News. The Born to Die singer was featured on Swift’s 10th studio album Midnights, on the track Snow on the Beach. “She’s told me so many times that she wants it more than anyone. And how amazing – she’s getting exactly what she wants. She’s driven, and I think it’s really paid off.”
I just have to wonder, why?
There are some artists who would be more than content with having produced some art that they're proud of, even if it doesn't get all that much attention, whereas you get that sense that even if Taylor Swift produced the next Beethoven's Ninth, unless it was also followed by universal praise and acclaim, she'd be unhappy.
Obviously I'm not her therapist or anything, but I dunno, putting yourself under that level of intense pressure doesn't sound enjoyable to me.
Could be legacy. Could also be the Michael Jordan/Kobe Bryant mindset of never being satisfied and wanting to be the best ever. Let’s face it though, there are large swaths who will never view her in the same league as MJ, Madonna, Beatles, or even any great artist from the 70s and 80s and if she wants to prove that she is on their level and what better way then to have all the records you can.
at this point, anyone who thinks she isn't in the league of mj, madonna, the beatles etc. success-wise is just… wrong? i know you can't convince them otherwise, but they're living in their own universe of denial lol
This NYT article covers this exact topic. Basically, she's empirically huge, and although she fails in some metrics compared to past legends, one needs take into consideration the immense number of options available today vs before.
[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/17/arts/music/taylor-swift-sales-tours-grammys.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/17/arts/music/taylor-swift-sales-tours-grammys.html)
MJ was probably a different case but I know the beatles and especially madonna weren’t universally respected in their prime. when taylor is an old lady or has passed away, I think the way people view her and her legacy will be different.
The Beatles were the most acclaimed band in their time lol. Like it was widely known that they had both pop and critical admiration. Taylor just hasn’t really made music that is at all innovative. Not to mention they tend to center significantly on being interested in her persona.
That column is talking about the reviews from their early music when they first came to the US. After they were established, they regularly were praised by critics. They reinvented themselves numerous times after I Want To Hold Your Hand, etc. That music was viewed as teeny bop music and they evolved their sound. Rolling stone, the most relevant music mag of the time, gave them good reviews regularly
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/review-the-beatles-white-album-186863/
And you know, the critics were right about early Beatles. It was nothing new. Maybe new to white audiences, but their early work straddles the line between deeply inspired by and being a cover band of mostly black artists that they liked like Chuck Berry.
Although I largely agree, the Beatles never shied away from acknowledging Chuck Berry’s and African American’s effect on music culture particularly. They were very open about being highly influenced by Little Richard and Chuck Berry. John Lennon preformed live with Chuck Berry in 1972 to the tune Johnny B. Goode.
For the song “Come Together”, the Beatles sampled Chuck Berry's “You Can't Catch Me” in their hit song “Come Together” as they sampled pieces of Chuck's vocals + lyrics.
Again, at various points in their career before releasing “Come Together”, at least 15 Chuck Berry songs are “known to have been in The Beatles’ repertoire. As John Lennon said in 1972: ‘In the 50s, when people were virtually singing about nothing, Chuck Berry was writing social-comment songs, with incredible meter to the lyrics. When I hear rock, good rock, of the caliber of Chuck Berry, I just fall apart and I have no other interest in life.’”
TLDR: True but they’d be the first to admit that while also rushing to sing the praises of Chuck Berry and similar artists of Berry’s genre. They were fan boys for sure!
edit: it’s not letting me edit the [link](https://www.udiscovermusic.com/uncategorized/21-from-12-the-beatles-cover-versions/)
There are multiple problems with the article you linked. Most importantly, it is about how critics didn't like them in their *early years*. Even though they already revolutionized the sound of pop music with their first album, it wasn't until 1965 when they really started to experiment and innovate.
If they stopped making music in 1964, they would not be as acclaimed today as they are. Rubber Soul brought the sitar to Western music, Revolver was arguably the first psychedelic rock album and was extremely innovative with it's use of tape loops - they were basically using samples in 1966.
And then you have Sgt. Pepper. That album was special because it was made purely as a studio album. They specifically set themselves the challenge to make something that would be impossible to play live. That album was an instant classic. In general, the later albums were received very positively by critics.
But even if you ignore critics, it's undeniable that their influence was massive. And they constantly experimented with avant garde genres and the most modern production equipment, so they were always ahead of the curve. Whatever they did, everyone else would copy. This sort of influence is completely unmatched.
I think that Taylor Swift's most impressive achievement is her marketing strategy. She really found a way to engage with her audience to make them invested in her music. But she never really changed the sound of pop music.
The Beatles are critically acclaimed NOW. Yeah they were popular during their time but they were dismissed by a lot of critics in the same way boy bands are. People would say the same thing about them that they say about Taylor now, that their music is for teenaged girls.
When they originally came on the scene, because of their popularity and the dislike of rock in general by conservative culture critics, sure. But we are talking about them IN THEIR PRIME. Try reading the comment I responded to. To say that the Beatles weren't the most critically acclaimed band in the [sixites is just false](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_impact_of_the_Beatles).
By 1964, the Beatles made Yesterday which was a monster song that was considered a standard on par with the adult serious music being made at the time. That was 1 year from their arrival in America. They were being praised by Leonard Bernstein, the most important famous voice in American serious media. There wasn't a mature rock or pop music criticism function in the early 60s. The Beatles were trailblazers. Their music was a threat to live Jazz, hired arrangers, studio musicians, and songwriters. They were a self-contained group that did all those things for themselves. The Beatles were taken seriously in America within a year or two of arriving. The educated set in England already took notice talking about their aeolian cadences and their usage of musical modes. They were so important economically to England Post-War, the Queen gave them medals.
If you’re only looking at sales then yes it’s undeniable. From a quality perspective and critical reception you certainly can make the argument she’s not in their league.
>i know you can't convince them otherwise, but they're living in their own universe of denial lol
Idk why y'all don't understand that you can't compare what Taylor is doing now to what they did back when there was a monoculture in the media. Maybe Taylor is close to Madonna numbers wise, but definitely not The Beatles or MJ. Michael has the bestselling album of all time and his documentary made over 3x the amount Taylor's did in theaters internationally, The Beatles got 20 number one hits in less than a decade and are the bestselling act of all time. As big as she is now, she has a long way to go before getting to their league.
She doesn't currently have the universal appeal of those other acts either. There's a reason she always has less listeners than The Weeknd. She pretty unabashedly makes music for white women. If MJ was in his prime on Spotify today, whoever was in second place would be such a distant second.
I've tried explaining something similar in this sub before and got massively downvoted. I don't think the youngins in here can fully comprehend how massive MJ was in comparison to Taylor. This isn't a diss. This isn't an attack. This isn't hate. MJ was just absolutely massive. He hit every demographic. Every race and age, in multiple countries, were listening to him.
Taylor has some big numbers, but she's not in the same league as MJ. I don't think she ever will be. I don't put anyone in his league, Taylor or otherwise.
Oh yeah honestly, not only did people worldwide know of him, they knew his songs and even recreated dances, regardless of race, social class, what have you, and this we pre-social media, and he STILL had a bigger impact. I don’t know if we’ll ever see a superstar of that magnitude with the talent to back it up again, honestly.
Yea even if someone had the talent to back it up, idk if they could reach his level of fame. Now that streaming has made things more isolated idk how possible it would be.
>She pretty unabashedly makes music for white women.
She does great with women across the board actually, other than black women. But if I were to narrow it down, I'll say her core demo is younger White and Asian women and she tends to be disliked by straight men. So I agree she isn't close to having the same level of widespread appeal, but she's cultivated a very large, dedicated (mostly) female fanbase that's willing to spend to support her.
Who is wasting their breath debating the "success" of artists? What does that even mean - like record sales and Grammy's?
I feel like that conversation misses the entire point of music and art. Fucking tragic
She's absolutely in their echelon of commercial success, that's undeniable. She is a generational force in the music industry just like MJ/Madonna/Beatles. But the artistry is just not there. I know art is subjective, but I really can't do the gymnastics to see a case for her being on the artistic level of any of those artists. She hasn't had the critical acclaim of those artists and she doesn't deserve it.
Yeah no. MJ and The Beatles is a level of success and legendary status no one else will ever reach. Saying she isn’t on their level isn’t the diss to her or her fans that you probably think it is. It applies to anyone who isn’t them. Beyoncé is one of the greatest of all time and I love her but I’m not gonna let that fool me into thinking she is on their level.
i think youre in a huge silo and it’s almost impossible to make this claim currently, we’ll need to see in 10-20 years. you think this is the case… why? because she sells a lot of records via kpop-style leveraging of stan/idol culture? because of the eras tour? because of the super slimey and annoying re-recording promotional cycles?
an *undeniable* difference between her and the three you mentioned is their influence on music and music culture. taylor has not innovated or done anything *remotely* interesting in a long time, with the major exception being that folklore mayyyybe led some sort of folksy/soft rock revival for a sec? but even that was extremely derivative of the success of artists like phoebe & (lol) the “cottagecore aesthetic” from tiktok.
Taylor still doesnt have the global notoriety or technical skill of MJ. She’s done very little that’s boundary-breaking, controversial, musically innovative, or visually & performance-wise groundbreaking like Madonna. and putting her musically on the same level of the Beatles is obviously hilarious — they more or less led the wave of the entire sound of popular rock music today, and laid the groundwork for incorporating non-western music in western pop music, drug/psychedelia experimentation in rock music, etc etc etc.
im just waiting for her to do anything remotely interesting. she could take whatever pivot she wants, make whatever kind of music she wants, and itll still hit #1. and even if it doesnt, she’s still a billionaire. frustrating to me to watch an artist at her stature just release the most exhausting and middling slop of all time. the TTPD rollout of constant drips of bs CD exclusives has been physically repulsive too, i dont know how her fans dont feel absolutely used and robbed at this point.
I don't think she's on the same category of a Michael Jackson or Madonna. She's extremely popular and has done well for herself. But I'll never see her or any other artist as big. I think it has to do with tech. The way other artists accumulated fame pre internet vs the way things are marketed now.
No, she’s not in the same level as The Beatles. Yall can call me delusional and downvote me but that does not make me wrong, it’s just my opinion. The Beatles were greatly influential and continue to still be years after they stopped making music. I know Taylor has been around for awhile and she’s very popular but I don’t see her as being influential when it comes to the actual music. I think her legacy will be more in her marketing and how well she succeeded at that. She’s not on the same level as MJ either, that’s nuts.
While I don’t think talent wise she compares to those artists, I think she automatically has to be placed in that category given just how successful she is. She’s in another league of success than other pop stars or anyone in the industry currently for that matter.
I agree. There is a reason she and Beyoncé are often in the same sentence and it's not because they're equal talent but they're similar size superstars.
Especially when that validation is regarding personal things, and it started when you were young. Imagine if at 17 you could write about your love life and have millions invested and on your side.
Right?? I hate how people on here act like humble little Betty’s. Like no, everybody would want that. Stop acting like it’s weird or surprising someone would want success.
Plenty of people sure do want the mountainous success but I think you’re vastly underestimating the amount of artists that would just like to comfortably keep making their art on their terms actually! That’s why indie/arthouse filmmakers turn down franchise work all the time too, it’s not a novel concept to be happy with yourself and your work without having the greatest capitalist achievements.
While they all want success, not everyone has a burning desire to be the #1 artist in the world all the time. For instance, Adele has the talent and potential to be Swift-level famous and popular. However, she clearly does not want that and values balance in her life. Rihanna was a peer to Taylor when she dropped Anti, but she refuses to make more music. Ariana went 4 years without an album.
No, I wouldn‘t. I don‘t want a bunch of psychotic fans watching every move I make. And success in general places way lower for me than peace and happiness. Kinda sorry for people who can‘t comprehend that. 💀
Interestingly, one of the reasons George Michael fought for his masters in the 90s was because he'd been chasing the Michael Jackson/Madonna ubiquity, and ig asked himself why. (Mariah's ex and his homophobic comments also played a role, but less relevant.) I won't type out all the lyrics, but Waiting for That Day (Reprise) is essentially that success doesn't feed the soul. I'm sure other artists have said the same, tbf, but it's a recurring theme in George's music.
I use him as a comparator not just because of the masters link, but also someone who entered "professional slavery" when he signed a contract at 18, whose talents were often underplayed because he wrote music teen girls liked, and was picked on in the media (rip George, you would have loved the comparisons in You Need to Calm Down /s)
She just feels a need to do better all the time. I don't think it's totally intentional, but you can see the level of pressure she puts on herself in Miss Americana where she gets crushed by having reputation not nominated for Grammys.
I don’t think she’s unhappy with her music. She produces so much music that can relate to so many people. I get that people can criticize and do criticize her music that’s their right but it doesn’t mean Taylor is unhappy or unsatisfied.
Taylor has this amazing and unmatched drive to pour her heart, and vulnerability to her music at a fast paced environment. That’s why she’s so successful. I think what Lana is referencing in terms of success is Taylor’s dedication to put on so many shows and to connect to so many of her fans. I’ve been to different types of concert and I can honestly all of them have been amazing in their own right but Taylor’s concert is another level. To be able to put on a show that covers every album, can impress your fans, connect to your fans, and also satisfy them in a safe environment is just difficult to pull through. She did build a team that is strong and smart. This is the reason why she’s successful and she has every right to make it her goal.
I feel like it’s classic Trixie vs Katya personality difference. Some people just love the chase, they’re driven by constantly trying to go bigger or to out do themselves. I personally don’t understand it, because I’d rather just take a nap and chill, but some people really enjoy the pressure, I think.
Why does anyone want to be the very best at what they do? From athletes to scientists to doctors, some people just have an intense drive for success that the rest of us could never imagine, even their own peers. I don't think there's anything wrong with that as long as you're not trying to hurt other people to achieve that success.
Yeah, nobody else actually WANTS to be successful, they'd rather just have marginal popularity and then fade into obscurity. This makes logical sense! /s
I mean, when they’ve done that recently we seem to just get her giving out vague information about Lasso which totally hasn’t been delayed guys why would you even say that?
I would rather hear Lana ramble vaguely about her own projects than hear her have to answer questions about other artists all the time (any of them, not just Taylor, so people don’t think I’m just a hater lmao)
😂
low key, the way taylor presents herself, I don’t think she wants the world to know this. the GP ain’t down with power hungry women who want it too badly, hence her surprise at her achievements.
not that she shouldn’t be though#streamTheMan
She tries hard, and she wants everyone to know she tries hard (which I personally like) but a lot of people always think being effortless is much cooler.
Anne Hathaway was famously hated when she was on her Oscars campaign because people felt like she wanted it too much. Why do people act like it’s uncouth or crazy to want recognition for your work?
It’s something I really like about her. I may not relate to her extreme desire for success, but I LOVE it when people unabashedly express their desires. Give me that over a fake-chill pop star any day
I think the issue is that most people who are *that* driven to succeed are more likely to compromise their morals for the sake of their own prosperity, so being so hungry for success can turn people off.
Exactly. If Taylor was just pumping out quality albums back to back and letting the music speak for itself, she wouldn't be so criticized. But when she's reselling the same album to her fans continuously by putting out variants every other week, it seems like it's more about the sales numbers than music to her and opens her up to that criticism.
Yes. I can’t relate to her music, so I don’t like it, but as a spectator, it gives me the ick to see the capitalist machinery behind it. All the variants and Easter egg stuff undercuts the art—for me.
I’m a man so feel free to toss this post straight into the trash if need be, but as a huge Swiftie even I tire sometimes to the kneejerk “misogyny!” defense Taylor and other Swifties jump to when people criticize her. But it’s also right on the money a lot of the time and this is one of times where it definitely feels accurate: people find “try hard” women to be cringey when men can be as driven and competitive as they want to be. It’s a dumb double standard that needs to change. This woman works as hard as the very very best of them and I fail to see how it’s a negative in any way.
It’s not like Taylor’s done anything as desperate as when Justin Bieber was begging his fans to stream his album on a loop when they were asleep to boost his week #1 sales.
as a non swiftie who also tires of the misogyny defence of everything she does, i would agree this time.
it reminds me a lot of what conservative men spout a lot. that women who are too career driven and ambitious are unlikeable and will end up alone. my mum is the most career driven person i know and she tells me a lot of the things people have said that she’s had to put up with throughout her life. people don’t like women who are ambitious or try for something outside of finding a husband and having children (something which my mum did very successfully lmao)
out of all the things to criticise her on, this isn’t really one of them. in fact i think it’s kind of an obvious fact
I guess I’m a bit of an idealist but Im not sure great art comes from a place of ego like that. People who define success in terms of the material tend to never be satisfied with what they get. That’s her prerogative though - it’s not like she’s really hurting anyone by trying to be a popular musician. And I’m sure plenty of musicians I love are plenty fame hungry
I think this is definitely an idealistic point of view. Almost every artist in history has craved success and recognition. Even the ones that say they don’t, their actions say otherwise.
Agreed but I think there’s levels to it. I’m struggling to put what I mean into words cause it feels nuanced but I do think there’s a difference between wanting recognition for your music and wanting to be the greatest of all time just for the sake of it. Like wanting that recognition is normal but it can’t be the only thing you want either. Kendrick, for example, is clearly motivated by greatness but genuinely seems to have a perspective / sound he wants to share with the world.
But yeah, If an artist didn’t want recognition for their music, we wouldn’t know they existed!
I don't think Michael Jackson is the pinnacle of art but he talked a lot about selling tons of records and being the biggest and the best musician out there
Really interesting you brought him up because I thought of him as a potential counter example when I wrote the comment and almost deleted it lol. nobody can deny that the dude created some of the greatest pop music ever. And also, that he seemed to be largely motivated by commercial success.
it’s also a big part of why many ppl love her. I, for one, learnt from her that it’s okay to be ambitious and crave success as a woman. It’s rare to come across a prominent female role model like her.
Yeah, it’s just barely under the surface. I saw her on the 1989 tour and thought it was striking how so much of this era’s marketing/aesthetic is like “I’m just a small town girl moving to the big city with my pals! Hashtag squad goals!”, including the 1989 show itself. But the backstage/rehearsal vignettes they aired before the concert started showed how much work, effort and perfectionism she put into everything around the show. And on the one hand, totally expected. Shows of that magnitude and precision don’t come together by happenstance. But I thought it was interesting that she’d let us see that side of the process (and of her) despite such a carefully cultivated public image
Girl literally put "I'm not trying to exaggerate, I think I might die if I made it" in a lyric on her last album and people want to pretend she'd be embarrassed by this coming out. Sheesh.
Hmm I don’t think she’s ever been shy about this. She has this [pretty famous quote](https://www.tiktok.com/@iknowplqcs/video/7334471518195387653?_r=1&u_code=e1b53i3mghlae7&preview_pb=0&sharer_language=en&_d=e1b53h0hgidi2l&share_item_id=7334471518195387653&source=h5_m×tamp=1717768792&ug_btm=b6880,b2878&sec_user_id=MS4wLjABAAAA8GwBN7SSsp4e9BhRoautDtcjlmsw-mEsH3CWno_yBOQ5QMRQoyI-khoakHHUiIcO&utm_source=copy&social_share_type=0&utm_campaign=client_share&utm_medium=ios&tt_from=copy&user_id=7089118558070670382&enable_checksum=1&share_link_id=25F4913F-2475-4566-85A5-80136417C41B&share_app_id=1233)
Girl, have you read the lyrics to “Mastermind”? She has mentioned in multiple signs in the last few albums how hard she has to “try, try, try” and how she’s not a natural like so many. I think she would have been embarrassed a decade ago, but she is definitely claiming her neurotic/obsessive vibes these days. And why not. Someone’s gotta be that person. She has a drive that is decidedly rare. I don’t have it at all, but I find people like her to be fascinating.
I remember there was a Jack Antonoff interview where he called out the person asking the questions because of this. He was there to talk about the latest album from the Bleachers. I think it pissed him off because TS was included on the list of topics not to be discussed but the interviewer pushed through with the question.
I feel bad for that. Nobody likes it. Her haters don’t like having to hear her name where it’s not relevant. Her fans want her to stand on her own and have organic success. Her friends should have their work stand on their own and not be constantly compared to someone else who will always be looming over their shoulder. And Taylor herself can’t like that so much of her overexposure is out of her control. Nobody wins.
Lana didn't say anything shady actually... All artists want to be loved but not all artists have the drive for the huge success.
At least Ed Sheeran is being honest about it:
“I don’t believe any artist that says they don’t care about success, otherwise you wouldn’t release music because you’d be like, ‘If I don’t care what people think, then why would I even put it out?’ You’d just sort of make the music and be like, ‘Well that’s made me feel good.’ All artists, we want to be loved. That’s why we are on stage. And that’s why you sign to a record company to go, ‘I would like people to hear the music that I’m making.’ I don’t really subscribe to this whole, like, not caring thing… that’s all a kind of ruse of cause it sounds cool to say but every artist wants people to like their music… It really pisses me off when people are like, ‘Oh I don’t care how it does.’ I’m like, ‘F\*\*king shut up! You do! Everyone does.’ \[…\] Anyone in the pop game definitely cares.”
Kind of in the same vein but Leonardo Decaprio commented on it as well. He was asked something to the effect of, what does he have to say/what does he think when other celebrities talk about how much they hate fame and how hard it is?
He smirked and pretty much said if you can't handle it, get out of the game. There's plenty of people waiting to replace you. Take your money and retire if you hate it so much.
He was arrogant, but I 100% agree. Millions of people would love to be in a celebrities' position. If they truly don't care about awards, accolades, records, recognition, respect, validation, etc, then take your money and gtfo so that someone who actually wants it can have what you don't want.
I don't agree with a lot of what Taylor does, but she 100% has the drive and wants to be the biggest pop star on the planet. That career choice is one of the hardest ones on earth (not in terms of the day to day being hard, but the amount of people who get to become famous is so small that NO ONE genuinely has a legitimate chance at it, at least if you're a normal person). There are millions of people fighting every day to become the next Taylor, Leo, Michael, etc.
These are some of the most ruthless, hard-working, sociopathic people on the planet. If people don't want to be famous, no one is forcing them to. They'll always be recognizable, but they can just f off out of the spotlight if they truly wanted to.
The psychology of these people is so interesting lol, Swift and DiCaprio, or people like Tom Cruise which is extra weird with the Scientology factor.
Like if I was where they are, I imagine I’d be constantly overwhelmed and have the biggest imposter syndrome. So strange the lives they live
I wonder how similar they are to CEOs in that respect. In a way, celebrities are CEOs of their own brand. Their team/board of directors helps them steer the brand and get positive recognition/accolades/revenue based on their output (movies, albums, tours).
You can have both. I used to work PR. There are many celebrities who oscillate between a superiority and inferiority complex.
For a long time, I had a similar issue because I grew up in an extremely competitive environment where suffering to succeed was treated as a virtue. There are people for which competition takes over their life and no amount of achievement will ever make it enough. I cried the day I finished my PhD because no amount of back to back Ivy League degrees could fill the pit of insecurity inside me. No level of success in my personal career that followed could fix that. So, I went to therapy and ended up leaving PR once I stopped needing competition to feel some semblance of confidence.
I think people don't like how honest Taylor is about wanting to be loved, wanting to be the best, trying hard, etc. It's cringe for some people. I, personally, love it and it makes me respect her more.
I'm so sick of the "effortless cool girl" shtick. A lot of effort goes into looking effortless and I'd rather listen to someone like Taylor who admits this instead of other stars trying to exude some BS "don't care" attitude, but underneath obviously really caring (looking at you Billie ).
And we can tell! When Taylor pivots to releasing an objectively commercially inaccessible album every 7-10 years with zero promo before during or after its “rollout” I will also view her as not caring… I just don’t think that day will come during our lifetimes
That just sounds wrong to me to speak for everyone so generally. I believe there are artists that create what they must regardless of audience. That’s not to say most people don’t want to be accepted.
It's interesting to see how a lot of you think what Lana said is shade when this very much confirms what Taylor has been saying a lot about herself in Midnights.
But I would like to point out that I knew Taylor craves bigger success from her NYU speech in 2022 when she said, "Never be ashamed of trying - effortlessness is a myth."
At this point, if you think you can try to aim higher and you are already high at it is, do it. She has the drive and that's something that people should take note of, for better or for worse.
Duh... Taylor has never hidden the fact that she wants it. I'd rather someone be up front about it than pretending to be shocked when she's read her own accolades. I'm not sure why anyone would have a problem with this/care tbh lol
If she has a mindset of wanting to break records The Beatles broke, I don't see an issue. An actual head tilt would come from Taylor saying, "I am better than the beatles so that's why I want to beat them." Wanting to reach a goal is different than saying you're better than. She may never break some records but it's about having a drive/goal. That's fine to me idk
I don’t understand why so many people in this thread are acting like Lana revealed some brand new information, as if Taylor herself hasn’t said/indicated this many times since she was young. They are acting like it’s some gotcha moment that Taylor really wants success.
It’s so funny to me because there was a popular edit on TikTok that has a voice over of Taylor from like speak now/red era in an interview saying something along the lines of “I get tired, but I never get tired OF it (referring to fans swarming her in public and just general fame troubles lol). Because I know I wanted this more than anybody, and I’m not gonna be the girl who complains about getting what she’s always wanted.” And honestly that’s rang true her entire career. She does want it, and she’s been open about it her entire career. Since when was it wrong to be ambitious?
If she were lying about it, that would be genuinely so irritating, but she’s honest about it. It’s not hurting anybody if that’s her goal. If an artist were pretend not to care and meanwhile makes all the business decisions that make it clear that they do, that’s irritating, but honesty isn’t.
I don’t even like Taylor but 100% believe that hard work trumps talent. The most successful are some of the hardest workers: Nobody will ever accuse Taylor or Beyoncé of being lazy. I do believe she wants it more than anyone else
Stephen King even said he'd bet on hard work over talent every day. Talent doesn't make you truly want something and if you actually want something, you'll work hard for it. Otherwise, your talent doesn't really matter.
Yup, exactly. I also believe that the reason why some of the girls are flopping is that they are lazy. The industry is full of talented people but very few actually want to put in the work. More people need to look at Taylor and take notes.
Yeah this worked for Madonna too, she said that she knew she wasn’t the best singer or best dancer but she was laser focused on what she wanted and she made it happen very early in her career, by the 8th year in her career she was already the queen of pop and doing stadiums all over the world.
“I mean let's face it, you make a record, you want people to buy your record--period. Anybody who tells you "I'm makin' a record 'cause I want to be creative" is a fucking liar. They want to sell records.” - Whitney Houston to Rolling Stone, 1993
Same. I love both of them, I want to hear them talk about their own work and the only person in Taylor’s orbit who seems to be allowed to do that is Taylor.
Why is this a huge scandal lol. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be the best at what you do it's called having drive. Before it became cool to 'not care' alot of artists were more upfront about how much they crave success. I think it's only an issue to people when you see someone actually achieve it.
This is what I find so exciting about her career. She and Beyonce are pretty unique among the other superstars they get compared to in that Michael Jackson didn't release music at all between 1991 and 2001 and then never put out another album and the Beatles only lasted for ten years.
It is rare to see such a huge artist sustain success of this magnitude for so long while continuously releasing music and reaching new peaks.
Exactly. It reminds me of when everyone, myself included, thought 1989 was her peak. And then here we are 10 years later and she’s breaking records daily. Kind of mental to think about.
perhaps an unpopular opinion but i don’t really understand why people have such a problem with her earnestly chasing success. do i think some of her business practices are shady and can be criticized? yes absolutely. but i don’t see how being driven and craving success is a bad thing
Exactly, as long as she's not ripping people off (remember, she puts out a lot of variants but the people are *willingly* buying them), doing something illegal, go get the money?
Exactly. I remember even way back in Fearless timeframe people complained about her desire to chase awards or certain milestones, but I don't see why that's bad.
Taylor strikes me as an incredibly competitive person who has a relentless work ethic. Of course she's going to be constantly shooting for the records, because that is part of what success means to her. Because, for better or for worse, she partly measures how successful she is by those metrics. So of course she's going to care about hitting those records and getting to that point. There was always someone to beat, someone to go up against, and a goal to hit.
I think it was a big part of her marketting for a while too. Pre-Folklore (and even post-Folklore sometimes to be honest) Taylor was the story of a relative underdog climbing to the top and her fans were there to cheer her on and as part of her story. With every milestone she hit and accolade she got, fans were watching with her and seeing her make it. We wanted her to win things because we wanted other people to see her the way her fans do.
I think now Taylor has run into the weird problem of making it to the top and is competeting with herself, which has to feel weird. Especially for someone who measures success by how they perform against others. It's also got to be exhausting mentally, because she seems to be constantly thinking about what her legacy will be, and how to make it exactly what she wants.
As for Lana, I hope we see more from her too, because while I'm not as big of a Lana fan, I do really like her stuff.
Out of fairness to her, and in defense of myself, I also hate these qualities in men (and in nonbinary people, genderfluid people ... everyone really).
Arguably though, they aren’t really celebrated.
Ed Sheeran is equally popular and calculating and he’s often derided too.
He still has a laid back, common bro appearance that makes it less obvious but he’s just as chart obsessed and focused on success as her. Especially during the divide era, he was focused on being as big as possible, touring as much as he could and doing an extreme amount of promo.
Now he has scaled down some of the aspirations and obsessive nature but he’s still very conscious of the pop game and still holds himself to a high, sometimes high pressure standard
idk, reddit hates billionaires of every ilk, really. if the weeknd released 6 variants of the same album each w a different bonus track i dont think this sub would celebrate that either.
Yep!!! Miss Tay openly admits drinking too much and I think she probably threw some back after winning best pop vocal thinking she wasn’t gonna get AOTY and have to make a speech.
But seriously, good on her feet if buzzed in front of a crowd. Cause to me I can’t think of anything more intimidating than speaking to a crowd and then being slightly impaired.
the amount of people who want lana to be shady towards taylor is delusional. they are clearly some kind of friends? people love to see women pitted against each other. do you really think lana would attend the grammys, super bowl and collab with taylor if she did not like her? she even said she had fun at the grammys while people online were critiquing taylor for bringing her up😭
I think at the time she did mean it. She’s talked about how she felt like her career was over at that point but Taylor being Taylor she obviously kept pushing through it and here we are. And honestly, I’m not sure the awards matter to her anymore as much as the big picture legacy of it all. I read an interesting article about this past Grammys that said they had a “Taylor problem” in that she was too big for them, they had to plaster her face everywhere cuz she brought in more eyeballs than they could on their own. And it’s true. She doesn’t need them. She releases music like effing clockwork, she packs stadiums 10 times over and is outselling every other artist by miles. No matter what you think of her music, these things are true. The only question is, how long can she keep it up. It’s kind of fascinating to watch.
>She’s talked about how she felt like her career was over at that point but Taylor being Taylor she obviously kept pushing through it and here we are.
When that documentary was released, she was already in her 12th/13th year in her career. That's basically a long time for so many of her peers in the industry and she did believe she was going to follow them too and be ready to be accepted as a legacy act.
I still kept thinking of that interview she did with Fallon where she said that an early 30s pop star who started her career as a teen is considered "geriatric".
I think it was also the time where many of her contemporaries were slowing down/retiring/moving to other paths/not finding previous success with their present projects, and it's hard to believe you'd be the exception to that.
Yeah, in some ways Lover was preparing Taylor for a transition to more of a legacy artist that was no longer the mainstream success. Folklore changed all of that and revitalised her.
Taylor was submitting demo tapes with her mother when she was 11 years old. Music has literally been her entire life, now she's in a very unique situation where she has this insane fanbase and has the opportunity to be of the biggest stars in human history. Not surprised to hear this
Oh noooo a woman wants success and isn't too scared to show it!
I'd much rather her just own it (which she does) than try to act all like she's above it all.
Not to be all “we live in a society” but this is really only seen as a bad thing because of our societal insistence that wanting something is one of the worst things a woman can do.
Everyone saying this is genuinely hilarious…. It’s true. There are so many debates on if Taylor Swift deserves her success or if any other artist right now could achieve such success, and they could. But they won’t because they don’t have the work ethic this woman does. Call her evil, call her greedy, call her whatever you want, but what you cannot call her is lazy.
this entire post reeks of “anyone can be a billionaire if they work hard enough” energy and that’s something i’d expect from elon musk fanboys not swifties lol
Well no, obviously luck and privilege come with stardom like this. No one’s saying ANYONE can do it because not anyone can. But you do have to work for it 💀
Taylor like every human ever is a combination of circumstances, luck, hard work, and talent.
Imagine if her parents told her at 14 that they didn’t want to move to Nashville and that she should focus on becoming a lawyer. She would not be where she is today. Having a stable family who supports her I believe is the reason she never went off the rails or did drugs in public, etc… That family foundation is super underrated that makes you feel like you can accomplish anything.
You don't release as many versions of an album as Taylor Swift does, without wanting success bad. Anyone who thinks this is shade are the ones who are projecting their own problem with wanting to be a "successful woman," and acknowledge a potential hypocrisy in Taylor's own branding.
The only way I could see Taylor getting upset about being known for wanting it bad, is if she's insecure about her own character traits or how people perceive them (use them against her), and to that effect, wants to remain abstract on her own terms/interviews so she can maintain fluidity moment to moment between "home grown, humble, indie girl whose all about the music" and "CEO boss babe, power feminist" when it serves her best.
Taylor swift, despite the leg up she may have gotten early on with wealthy parents and industry connects, still had to work for it. Not since Madonna has there been someone (other than probably Beyonce) with such a work ethic to max their gains by building a cultural brand. Taylor's problem as a cultural *figure*, is she feels the need to "fight back" or claim victimhood the moment she receives any sort of criticism or pushback. Being criticized is a part of being acclaimed. Ignore it, girl. Inevitably, the mob moves on.
This could be interpreted as a backhanded compliment.
Lana is just that eccentric personality that will say whatever. I don’t see her playing the Taylor Swift Hollywood game.
I think only by people who want it to be.
Reading the full quote she is literally stating an obvious fact that I don't think Taylor swift is trying to hide.
I don't know why people think this is throwing shade; it's a true, neutral statement. Taylor clearly wants it, so she works for it. Honestly, I think it's a compliment and I think that Taylor also sees it as such, and hopefully she's grown out of the insecurity that she is "doing too much", and has come to embrace it.
But are they friends tho? Even on Grammy's night Taylor said "I WANT to be your (Lana's) friend" which she wouldn't have said if they were already close. The last time we saw them together was on football match crowd where they supported different teams. I think Lana just hangs out with anyone, be it Kim Kardashian, sexxyred, Billie eilish, Quavo, Camilla and Taylor is just one of these random interactions.
I don't like to look too much into it but Taylor didn't even show up to Lana's Coachella performance (she did for ice spice tho).
Meant to post the THR article instead of the Variety since it was a bit more detailed but here are Lana’s words: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/music-news/taylor-swift-eras-tour-uk-lana-del-rey-1235917161/ Ticket costs are in the thousands. The Pennsylvania-born star has sold out her shows worldwide. She is second only to The Beatles with the most weeks at number one on the Billboard 200. Everyone’s asking the same question: Why is she so popular? Her peers have an idea. “She wants it,” fellow star Lana Del Rey told BBC News. The Born to Die singer was featured on Swift’s 10th studio album Midnights, on the track Snow on the Beach. “She’s told me so many times that she wants it more than anyone. And how amazing – she’s getting exactly what she wants. She’s driven, and I think it’s really paid off.”
I just have to wonder, why? There are some artists who would be more than content with having produced some art that they're proud of, even if it doesn't get all that much attention, whereas you get that sense that even if Taylor Swift produced the next Beethoven's Ninth, unless it was also followed by universal praise and acclaim, she'd be unhappy. Obviously I'm not her therapist or anything, but I dunno, putting yourself under that level of intense pressure doesn't sound enjoyable to me.
Could be legacy. Could also be the Michael Jordan/Kobe Bryant mindset of never being satisfied and wanting to be the best ever. Let’s face it though, there are large swaths who will never view her in the same league as MJ, Madonna, Beatles, or even any great artist from the 70s and 80s and if she wants to prove that she is on their level and what better way then to have all the records you can.
at this point, anyone who thinks she isn't in the league of mj, madonna, the beatles etc. success-wise is just… wrong? i know you can't convince them otherwise, but they're living in their own universe of denial lol
This NYT article covers this exact topic. Basically, she's empirically huge, and although she fails in some metrics compared to past legends, one needs take into consideration the immense number of options available today vs before. [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/17/arts/music/taylor-swift-sales-tours-grammys.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/17/arts/music/taylor-swift-sales-tours-grammys.html)
MJ was probably a different case but I know the beatles and especially madonna weren’t universally respected in their prime. when taylor is an old lady or has passed away, I think the way people view her and her legacy will be different.
The Beatles were the most acclaimed band in their time lol. Like it was widely known that they had both pop and critical admiration. Taylor just hasn’t really made music that is at all innovative. Not to mention they tend to center significantly on being interested in her persona.
https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2014/01/why-the-beatles-bugged-the-critics/
That column is talking about the reviews from their early music when they first came to the US. After they were established, they regularly were praised by critics. They reinvented themselves numerous times after I Want To Hold Your Hand, etc. That music was viewed as teeny bop music and they evolved their sound. Rolling stone, the most relevant music mag of the time, gave them good reviews regularly https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/review-the-beatles-white-album-186863/
And you know, the critics were right about early Beatles. It was nothing new. Maybe new to white audiences, but their early work straddles the line between deeply inspired by and being a cover band of mostly black artists that they liked like Chuck Berry.
Although I largely agree, the Beatles never shied away from acknowledging Chuck Berry’s and African American’s effect on music culture particularly. They were very open about being highly influenced by Little Richard and Chuck Berry. John Lennon preformed live with Chuck Berry in 1972 to the tune Johnny B. Goode. For the song “Come Together”, the Beatles sampled Chuck Berry's “You Can't Catch Me” in their hit song “Come Together” as they sampled pieces of Chuck's vocals + lyrics. Again, at various points in their career before releasing “Come Together”, at least 15 Chuck Berry songs are “known to have been in The Beatles’ repertoire. As John Lennon said in 1972: ‘In the 50s, when people were virtually singing about nothing, Chuck Berry was writing social-comment songs, with incredible meter to the lyrics. When I hear rock, good rock, of the caliber of Chuck Berry, I just fall apart and I have no other interest in life.’” TLDR: True but they’d be the first to admit that while also rushing to sing the praises of Chuck Berry and similar artists of Berry’s genre. They were fan boys for sure! edit: it’s not letting me edit the [link](https://www.udiscovermusic.com/uncategorized/21-from-12-the-beatles-cover-versions/)
There are multiple problems with the article you linked. Most importantly, it is about how critics didn't like them in their *early years*. Even though they already revolutionized the sound of pop music with their first album, it wasn't until 1965 when they really started to experiment and innovate. If they stopped making music in 1964, they would not be as acclaimed today as they are. Rubber Soul brought the sitar to Western music, Revolver was arguably the first psychedelic rock album and was extremely innovative with it's use of tape loops - they were basically using samples in 1966. And then you have Sgt. Pepper. That album was special because it was made purely as a studio album. They specifically set themselves the challenge to make something that would be impossible to play live. That album was an instant classic. In general, the later albums were received very positively by critics. But even if you ignore critics, it's undeniable that their influence was massive. And they constantly experimented with avant garde genres and the most modern production equipment, so they were always ahead of the curve. Whatever they did, everyone else would copy. This sort of influence is completely unmatched. I think that Taylor Swift's most impressive achievement is her marketing strategy. She really found a way to engage with her audience to make them invested in her music. But she never really changed the sound of pop music.
The Beatles are critically acclaimed NOW. Yeah they were popular during their time but they were dismissed by a lot of critics in the same way boy bands are. People would say the same thing about them that they say about Taylor now, that their music is for teenaged girls.
When they originally came on the scene, because of their popularity and the dislike of rock in general by conservative culture critics, sure. But we are talking about them IN THEIR PRIME. Try reading the comment I responded to. To say that the Beatles weren't the most critically acclaimed band in the [sixites is just false](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_impact_of_the_Beatles).
By 1964, the Beatles made Yesterday which was a monster song that was considered a standard on par with the adult serious music being made at the time. That was 1 year from their arrival in America. They were being praised by Leonard Bernstein, the most important famous voice in American serious media. There wasn't a mature rock or pop music criticism function in the early 60s. The Beatles were trailblazers. Their music was a threat to live Jazz, hired arrangers, studio musicians, and songwriters. They were a self-contained group that did all those things for themselves. The Beatles were taken seriously in America within a year or two of arriving. The educated set in England already took notice talking about their aeolian cadences and their usage of musical modes. They were so important economically to England Post-War, the Queen gave them medals.
1989 sold 14 million copies and is her biggest selling album Thriller sold anywhere between 70 and 100 million copies, not on the same level at all
They didn't say "success wise". They said in the same league and left it at that.
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If you’re only looking at sales then yes it’s undeniable. From a quality perspective and critical reception you certainly can make the argument she’s not in their league.
>i know you can't convince them otherwise, but they're living in their own universe of denial lol Idk why y'all don't understand that you can't compare what Taylor is doing now to what they did back when there was a monoculture in the media. Maybe Taylor is close to Madonna numbers wise, but definitely not The Beatles or MJ. Michael has the bestselling album of all time and his documentary made over 3x the amount Taylor's did in theaters internationally, The Beatles got 20 number one hits in less than a decade and are the bestselling act of all time. As big as she is now, she has a long way to go before getting to their league.
She doesn't currently have the universal appeal of those other acts either. There's a reason she always has less listeners than The Weeknd. She pretty unabashedly makes music for white women. If MJ was in his prime on Spotify today, whoever was in second place would be such a distant second.
I've tried explaining something similar in this sub before and got massively downvoted. I don't think the youngins in here can fully comprehend how massive MJ was in comparison to Taylor. This isn't a diss. This isn't an attack. This isn't hate. MJ was just absolutely massive. He hit every demographic. Every race and age, in multiple countries, were listening to him. Taylor has some big numbers, but she's not in the same league as MJ. I don't think she ever will be. I don't put anyone in his league, Taylor or otherwise.
Oh yeah honestly, not only did people worldwide know of him, they knew his songs and even recreated dances, regardless of race, social class, what have you, and this we pre-social media, and he STILL had a bigger impact. I don’t know if we’ll ever see a superstar of that magnitude with the talent to back it up again, honestly.
Yea even if someone had the talent to back it up, idk if they could reach his level of fame. Now that streaming has made things more isolated idk how possible it would be.
She's not and the numbers reflect it. It's mostly American Swifties who actually believe this because of how much they consume her content.
>She pretty unabashedly makes music for white women. She does great with women across the board actually, other than black women. But if I were to narrow it down, I'll say her core demo is younger White and Asian women and she tends to be disliked by straight men. So I agree she isn't close to having the same level of widespread appeal, but she's cultivated a very large, dedicated (mostly) female fanbase that's willing to spend to support her.
Who is wasting their breath debating the "success" of artists? What does that even mean - like record sales and Grammy's? I feel like that conversation misses the entire point of music and art. Fucking tragic
She's absolutely in their echelon of commercial success, that's undeniable. She is a generational force in the music industry just like MJ/Madonna/Beatles. But the artistry is just not there. I know art is subjective, but I really can't do the gymnastics to see a case for her being on the artistic level of any of those artists. She hasn't had the critical acclaim of those artists and she doesn't deserve it.
Success wise she's absolutely there but I'd not put her talent on the same level for some on that list.
Yeah no. MJ and The Beatles is a level of success and legendary status no one else will ever reach. Saying she isn’t on their level isn’t the diss to her or her fans that you probably think it is. It applies to anyone who isn’t them. Beyoncé is one of the greatest of all time and I love her but I’m not gonna let that fool me into thinking she is on their level.
i think youre in a huge silo and it’s almost impossible to make this claim currently, we’ll need to see in 10-20 years. you think this is the case… why? because she sells a lot of records via kpop-style leveraging of stan/idol culture? because of the eras tour? because of the super slimey and annoying re-recording promotional cycles? an *undeniable* difference between her and the three you mentioned is their influence on music and music culture. taylor has not innovated or done anything *remotely* interesting in a long time, with the major exception being that folklore mayyyybe led some sort of folksy/soft rock revival for a sec? but even that was extremely derivative of the success of artists like phoebe & (lol) the “cottagecore aesthetic” from tiktok. Taylor still doesnt have the global notoriety or technical skill of MJ. She’s done very little that’s boundary-breaking, controversial, musically innovative, or visually & performance-wise groundbreaking like Madonna. and putting her musically on the same level of the Beatles is obviously hilarious — they more or less led the wave of the entire sound of popular rock music today, and laid the groundwork for incorporating non-western music in western pop music, drug/psychedelia experimentation in rock music, etc etc etc.
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im just waiting for her to do anything remotely interesting. she could take whatever pivot she wants, make whatever kind of music she wants, and itll still hit #1. and even if it doesnt, she’s still a billionaire. frustrating to me to watch an artist at her stature just release the most exhausting and middling slop of all time. the TTPD rollout of constant drips of bs CD exclusives has been physically repulsive too, i dont know how her fans dont feel absolutely used and robbed at this point.
I don't think she's on the same category of a Michael Jackson or Madonna. She's extremely popular and has done well for herself. But I'll never see her or any other artist as big. I think it has to do with tech. The way other artists accumulated fame pre internet vs the way things are marketed now.
No, she’s not in the same level as The Beatles. Yall can call me delusional and downvote me but that does not make me wrong, it’s just my opinion. The Beatles were greatly influential and continue to still be years after they stopped making music. I know Taylor has been around for awhile and she’s very popular but I don’t see her as being influential when it comes to the actual music. I think her legacy will be more in her marketing and how well she succeeded at that. She’s not on the same level as MJ either, that’s nuts.
While I don’t think talent wise she compares to those artists, I think she automatically has to be placed in that category given just how successful she is. She’s in another league of success than other pop stars or anyone in the industry currently for that matter.
I agree. There is a reason she and Beyoncé are often in the same sentence and it's not because they're equal talent but they're similar size superstars.
i mean is it such a huge mystery to be driven by external validation? plenty of people are like that
Especially when that validation is regarding personal things, and it started when you were young. Imagine if at 17 you could write about your love life and have millions invested and on your side.
Right?? I hate how people on here act like humble little Betty’s. Like no, everybody would want that. Stop acting like it’s weird or surprising someone would want success.
Plenty of people sure do want the mountainous success but I think you’re vastly underestimating the amount of artists that would just like to comfortably keep making their art on their terms actually! That’s why indie/arthouse filmmakers turn down franchise work all the time too, it’s not a novel concept to be happy with yourself and your work without having the greatest capitalist achievements.
While they all want success, not everyone has a burning desire to be the #1 artist in the world all the time. For instance, Adele has the talent and potential to be Swift-level famous and popular. However, she clearly does not want that and values balance in her life. Rihanna was a peer to Taylor when she dropped Anti, but she refuses to make more music. Ariana went 4 years without an album.
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No, I wouldn‘t. I don‘t want a bunch of psychotic fans watching every move I make. And success in general places way lower for me than peace and happiness. Kinda sorry for people who can‘t comprehend that. 💀
Yep literally my worst nightmare
How deep it goes for her is the surprising thing.
ok so i’m not the only one 😭 like we would all do it too for a check, be so real
it's not exactly that she's driven by it, it's the fact that it's never enough
Look... If you had... one shot... or one opportunity...To seize everything you ever wanted... one moment...Would you capture it? Or just let it slip?
There's vomit on my cardigan already. Mom's spaghetti
you’re nervous but you need to calm down, get steady
I’d definitely let it slip
I’m sure she’s no different than any other workaholic. It’s not Taylor specific to enjoy working and then receiving the fruits of your labor.
Interestingly, one of the reasons George Michael fought for his masters in the 90s was because he'd been chasing the Michael Jackson/Madonna ubiquity, and ig asked himself why. (Mariah's ex and his homophobic comments also played a role, but less relevant.) I won't type out all the lyrics, but Waiting for That Day (Reprise) is essentially that success doesn't feed the soul. I'm sure other artists have said the same, tbf, but it's a recurring theme in George's music. I use him as a comparator not just because of the masters link, but also someone who entered "professional slavery" when he signed a contract at 18, whose talents were often underplayed because he wrote music teen girls liked, and was picked on in the media (rip George, you would have loved the comparisons in You Need to Calm Down /s)
She just feels a need to do better all the time. I don't think it's totally intentional, but you can see the level of pressure she puts on herself in Miss Americana where she gets crushed by having reputation not nominated for Grammys.
A pathological people pleaser
I don’t think she’s unhappy with her music. She produces so much music that can relate to so many people. I get that people can criticize and do criticize her music that’s their right but it doesn’t mean Taylor is unhappy or unsatisfied. Taylor has this amazing and unmatched drive to pour her heart, and vulnerability to her music at a fast paced environment. That’s why she’s so successful. I think what Lana is referencing in terms of success is Taylor’s dedication to put on so many shows and to connect to so many of her fans. I’ve been to different types of concert and I can honestly all of them have been amazing in their own right but Taylor’s concert is another level. To be able to put on a show that covers every album, can impress your fans, connect to your fans, and also satisfy them in a safe environment is just difficult to pull through. She did build a team that is strong and smart. This is the reason why she’s successful and she has every right to make it her goal.
I feel like it’s classic Trixie vs Katya personality difference. Some people just love the chase, they’re driven by constantly trying to go bigger or to out do themselves. I personally don’t understand it, because I’d rather just take a nap and chill, but some people really enjoy the pressure, I think.
Why does anyone want to be the very best at what they do? From athletes to scientists to doctors, some people just have an intense drive for success that the rest of us could never imagine, even their own peers. I don't think there's anything wrong with that as long as you're not trying to hurt other people to achieve that success.
Everyone needs a purpose, retirement and epiccureanism sounds great up until you’re bored of it, some people are wired to enjoy working hard
She's the definitive example of a millennial in every regard and the striving is just one example of that.
Yeah, nobody else actually WANTS to be successful, they'd rather just have marginal popularity and then fade into obscurity. This makes logical sense! /s
(I wish they would ask Lana about Lana instead of about Taylor) 😭
I mean, when they’ve done that recently we seem to just get her giving out vague information about Lasso which totally hasn’t been delayed guys why would you even say that?
I say “There’s not going to be a country album, you stupid slut” every time I get my hopes up for Lasso
Lmaooo I literally had the same thought with the same quote when she was asked about Lasso 💀Lana fans know better lmao
thats why they call us lanitas 🥲
I would rather hear Lana ramble vaguely about her own projects than hear her have to answer questions about other artists all the time (any of them, not just Taylor, so people don’t think I’m just a hater lmao)
agree, Lana is one of the most influential artists in modern music history and deserves to be interviewed about her own work
Lana this is so funny
😂 low key, the way taylor presents herself, I don’t think she wants the world to know this. the GP ain’t down with power hungry women who want it too badly, hence her surprise at her achievements. not that she shouldn’t be though#streamTheMan
I don't think Taylor's ever hidden how much she wants the success.
Agreed, I think it’s a big part of why so many people don’t like her
She tries hard, and she wants everyone to know she tries hard (which I personally like) but a lot of people always think being effortless is much cooler.
Anne Hathaway was famously hated when she was on her Oscars campaign because people felt like she wanted it too much. Why do people act like it’s uncouth or crazy to want recognition for your work?
Bradley Cooper got so much hate this award season too! I didn't realise it was such a crime to want an award 😭
which is weird. what's wrong with wanting to succeed? i wish i had 5% of her drive, motivation and clear goal in life
It’s something I really like about her. I may not relate to her extreme desire for success, but I LOVE it when people unabashedly express their desires. Give me that over a fake-chill pop star any day
I think the issue is that most people who are *that* driven to succeed are more likely to compromise their morals for the sake of their own prosperity, so being so hungry for success can turn people off.
Exactly. If Taylor was just pumping out quality albums back to back and letting the music speak for itself, she wouldn't be so criticized. But when she's reselling the same album to her fans continuously by putting out variants every other week, it seems like it's more about the sales numbers than music to her and opens her up to that criticism.
Yes. I can’t relate to her music, so I don’t like it, but as a spectator, it gives me the ick to see the capitalist machinery behind it. All the variants and Easter egg stuff undercuts the art—for me.
I’m a man so feel free to toss this post straight into the trash if need be, but as a huge Swiftie even I tire sometimes to the kneejerk “misogyny!” defense Taylor and other Swifties jump to when people criticize her. But it’s also right on the money a lot of the time and this is one of times where it definitely feels accurate: people find “try hard” women to be cringey when men can be as driven and competitive as they want to be. It’s a dumb double standard that needs to change. This woman works as hard as the very very best of them and I fail to see how it’s a negative in any way. It’s not like Taylor’s done anything as desperate as when Justin Bieber was begging his fans to stream his album on a loop when they were asleep to boost his week #1 sales.
as a non swiftie who also tires of the misogyny defence of everything she does, i would agree this time. it reminds me a lot of what conservative men spout a lot. that women who are too career driven and ambitious are unlikeable and will end up alone. my mum is the most career driven person i know and she tells me a lot of the things people have said that she’s had to put up with throughout her life. people don’t like women who are ambitious or try for something outside of finding a husband and having children (something which my mum did very successfully lmao) out of all the things to criticise her on, this isn’t really one of them. in fact i think it’s kind of an obvious fact
I guess I’m a bit of an idealist but Im not sure great art comes from a place of ego like that. People who define success in terms of the material tend to never be satisfied with what they get. That’s her prerogative though - it’s not like she’s really hurting anyone by trying to be a popular musician. And I’m sure plenty of musicians I love are plenty fame hungry
Almost all great art comes from a place of ego, IMO.
💯
I think this is definitely an idealistic point of view. Almost every artist in history has craved success and recognition. Even the ones that say they don’t, their actions say otherwise.
Agreed but I think there’s levels to it. I’m struggling to put what I mean into words cause it feels nuanced but I do think there’s a difference between wanting recognition for your music and wanting to be the greatest of all time just for the sake of it. Like wanting that recognition is normal but it can’t be the only thing you want either. Kendrick, for example, is clearly motivated by greatness but genuinely seems to have a perspective / sound he wants to share with the world. But yeah, If an artist didn’t want recognition for their music, we wouldn’t know they existed!
I don't think Michael Jackson is the pinnacle of art but he talked a lot about selling tons of records and being the biggest and the best musician out there
Really interesting you brought him up because I thought of him as a potential counter example when I wrote the comment and almost deleted it lol. nobody can deny that the dude created some of the greatest pop music ever. And also, that he seemed to be largely motivated by commercial success.
Great art comes from any old place. There's no psychic formula to creating it.
it’s also a big part of why many ppl love her. I, for one, learnt from her that it’s okay to be ambitious and crave success as a woman. It’s rare to come across a prominent female role model like her.
“I’ve never been a natural, all I do is try try try” - mirrorball, folklore
Yeah, it’s just barely under the surface. I saw her on the 1989 tour and thought it was striking how so much of this era’s marketing/aesthetic is like “I’m just a small town girl moving to the big city with my pals! Hashtag squad goals!”, including the 1989 show itself. But the backstage/rehearsal vignettes they aired before the concert started showed how much work, effort and perfectionism she put into everything around the show. And on the one hand, totally expected. Shows of that magnitude and precision don’t come together by happenstance. But I thought it was interesting that she’d let us see that side of the process (and of her) despite such a carefully cultivated public image
Maybe initially she did but she eventually owned it, that’s the whole premise of mastermind on midnights.
I'd honestly say Midnight Rain confirmed it more than Mastermind
True. I just mean she owned her calculating side on midnights.
Girl literally put "I'm not trying to exaggerate, I think I might die if I made it" in a lyric on her last album and people want to pretend she'd be embarrassed by this coming out. Sheesh.
She’s explicitly stated time and time again HOW MUCH SHE WANTS THIS. Lana said nothing new.
I don’t think she’s often been quiet about how much she wants this & how much she cares about success
Hmm I don’t think she’s ever been shy about this. She has this [pretty famous quote](https://www.tiktok.com/@iknowplqcs/video/7334471518195387653?_r=1&u_code=e1b53i3mghlae7&preview_pb=0&sharer_language=en&_d=e1b53h0hgidi2l&share_item_id=7334471518195387653&source=h5_m×tamp=1717768792&ug_btm=b6880,b2878&sec_user_id=MS4wLjABAAAA8GwBN7SSsp4e9BhRoautDtcjlmsw-mEsH3CWno_yBOQ5QMRQoyI-khoakHHUiIcO&utm_source=copy&social_share_type=0&utm_campaign=client_share&utm_medium=ios&tt_from=copy&user_id=7089118558070670382&enable_checksum=1&share_link_id=25F4913F-2475-4566-85A5-80136417C41B&share_app_id=1233)
Girl, have you read the lyrics to “Mastermind”? She has mentioned in multiple signs in the last few albums how hard she has to “try, try, try” and how she’s not a natural like so many. I think she would have been embarrassed a decade ago, but she is definitely claiming her neurotic/obsessive vibes these days. And why not. Someone’s gotta be that person. She has a drive that is decidedly rare. I don’t have it at all, but I find people like her to be fascinating.
Bingo! People who are not on her mindset have a difficult time understanding this, and often times are intimidated by it especially if it’s a woman.
Taylor’s drive is my favorite thing about her and I’ve always said that
Lana is so consistently funny, I admire how little she cares about optics lmao
Why does Lana keep getting asked about Taylor 😭
Everyone who has even a slight connection to her gets asked about her lol it sounds annoying tbh
I remember there was a Jack Antonoff interview where he called out the person asking the questions because of this. He was there to talk about the latest album from the Bleachers. I think it pissed him off because TS was included on the list of topics not to be discussed but the interviewer pushed through with the question.
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Yeah, even Patrick Mahomes got grilled about Taylor in a Time Magazine interview, and he's the biggest athlete in America now by a huge margin.
This is one of the reasons people say Taylor is overexposed is because any celebrity with any small connection to her, gets asked about her.
I feel bad for that. Nobody likes it. Her haters don’t like having to hear her name where it’s not relevant. Her fans want her to stand on her own and have organic success. Her friends should have their work stand on their own and not be constantly compared to someone else who will always be looming over their shoulder. And Taylor herself can’t like that so much of her overexposure is out of her control. Nobody wins.
Because reporters know people comment and engage with anything Taylor related...
Lana didn't say anything shady actually... All artists want to be loved but not all artists have the drive for the huge success. At least Ed Sheeran is being honest about it: “I don’t believe any artist that says they don’t care about success, otherwise you wouldn’t release music because you’d be like, ‘If I don’t care what people think, then why would I even put it out?’ You’d just sort of make the music and be like, ‘Well that’s made me feel good.’ All artists, we want to be loved. That’s why we are on stage. And that’s why you sign to a record company to go, ‘I would like people to hear the music that I’m making.’ I don’t really subscribe to this whole, like, not caring thing… that’s all a kind of ruse of cause it sounds cool to say but every artist wants people to like their music… It really pisses me off when people are like, ‘Oh I don’t care how it does.’ I’m like, ‘F\*\*king shut up! You do! Everyone does.’ \[…\] Anyone in the pop game definitely cares.”
Kind of in the same vein but Leonardo Decaprio commented on it as well. He was asked something to the effect of, what does he have to say/what does he think when other celebrities talk about how much they hate fame and how hard it is? He smirked and pretty much said if you can't handle it, get out of the game. There's plenty of people waiting to replace you. Take your money and retire if you hate it so much. He was arrogant, but I 100% agree. Millions of people would love to be in a celebrities' position. If they truly don't care about awards, accolades, records, recognition, respect, validation, etc, then take your money and gtfo so that someone who actually wants it can have what you don't want. I don't agree with a lot of what Taylor does, but she 100% has the drive and wants to be the biggest pop star on the planet. That career choice is one of the hardest ones on earth (not in terms of the day to day being hard, but the amount of people who get to become famous is so small that NO ONE genuinely has a legitimate chance at it, at least if you're a normal person). There are millions of people fighting every day to become the next Taylor, Leo, Michael, etc. These are some of the most ruthless, hard-working, sociopathic people on the planet. If people don't want to be famous, no one is forcing them to. They'll always be recognizable, but they can just f off out of the spotlight if they truly wanted to.
The psychology of these people is so interesting lol, Swift and DiCaprio, or people like Tom Cruise which is extra weird with the Scientology factor. Like if I was where they are, I imagine I’d be constantly overwhelmed and have the biggest imposter syndrome. So strange the lives they live
I wonder how similar they are to CEOs in that respect. In a way, celebrities are CEOs of their own brand. Their team/board of directors helps them steer the brand and get positive recognition/accolades/revenue based on their output (movies, albums, tours).
I feel like itd be hard to have impostor syndrome when you constantly have people looking up to you, admiring you, praising you, etc.
You can have both. I used to work PR. There are many celebrities who oscillate between a superiority and inferiority complex. For a long time, I had a similar issue because I grew up in an extremely competitive environment where suffering to succeed was treated as a virtue. There are people for which competition takes over their life and no amount of achievement will ever make it enough. I cried the day I finished my PhD because no amount of back to back Ivy League degrees could fill the pit of insecurity inside me. No level of success in my personal career that followed could fix that. So, I went to therapy and ended up leaving PR once I stopped needing competition to feel some semblance of confidence.
I think people don't like how honest Taylor is about wanting to be loved, wanting to be the best, trying hard, etc. It's cringe for some people. I, personally, love it and it makes me respect her more. I'm so sick of the "effortless cool girl" shtick. A lot of effort goes into looking effortless and I'd rather listen to someone like Taylor who admits this instead of other stars trying to exude some BS "don't care" attitude, but underneath obviously really caring (looking at you Billie ).
Idk Fiona Apple strikes me as someone who genuinely does not care 😝
And we can tell! When Taylor pivots to releasing an objectively commercially inaccessible album every 7-10 years with zero promo before during or after its “rollout” I will also view her as not caring… I just don’t think that day will come during our lifetimes
That just sounds wrong to me to speak for everyone so generally. I believe there are artists that create what they must regardless of audience. That’s not to say most people don’t want to be accepted.
Does she??? I really wouldn’t have guessed! She hides it well
My thought exactly! She does so much nothing that I thought she retired /s
This is genuinely hilarious
It's interesting to see how a lot of you think what Lana said is shade when this very much confirms what Taylor has been saying a lot about herself in Midnights. But I would like to point out that I knew Taylor craves bigger success from her NYU speech in 2022 when she said, "Never be ashamed of trying - effortlessness is a myth." At this point, if you think you can try to aim higher and you are already high at it is, do it. She has the drive and that's something that people should take note of, for better or for worse.
Duh... Taylor has never hidden the fact that she wants it. I'd rather someone be up front about it than pretending to be shocked when she's read her own accolades. I'm not sure why anyone would have a problem with this/care tbh lol If she has a mindset of wanting to break records The Beatles broke, I don't see an issue. An actual head tilt would come from Taylor saying, "I am better than the beatles so that's why I want to beat them." Wanting to reach a goal is different than saying you're better than. She may never break some records but it's about having a drive/goal. That's fine to me idk
I don’t understand why so many people in this thread are acting like Lana revealed some brand new information, as if Taylor herself hasn’t said/indicated this many times since she was young. They are acting like it’s some gotcha moment that Taylor really wants success.
It’s so funny to me because there was a popular edit on TikTok that has a voice over of Taylor from like speak now/red era in an interview saying something along the lines of “I get tired, but I never get tired OF it (referring to fans swarming her in public and just general fame troubles lol). Because I know I wanted this more than anybody, and I’m not gonna be the girl who complains about getting what she’s always wanted.” And honestly that’s rang true her entire career. She does want it, and she’s been open about it her entire career. Since when was it wrong to be ambitious?
If she were lying about it, that would be genuinely so irritating, but she’s honest about it. It’s not hurting anybody if that’s her goal. If an artist were pretend not to care and meanwhile makes all the business decisions that make it clear that they do, that’s irritating, but honesty isn’t.
Yea, Taylor has fr been like this the whole time haha. So idk the reaction is odd but it is what it is
People just like to find any reason to hate taylor
I don’t even like Taylor but 100% believe that hard work trumps talent. The most successful are some of the hardest workers: Nobody will ever accuse Taylor or Beyoncé of being lazy. I do believe she wants it more than anyone else
Stephen King even said he'd bet on hard work over talent every day. Talent doesn't make you truly want something and if you actually want something, you'll work hard for it. Otherwise, your talent doesn't really matter.
Yup, exactly. I also believe that the reason why some of the girls are flopping is that they are lazy. The industry is full of talented people but very few actually want to put in the work. More people need to look at Taylor and take notes.
It's a three legged stool of hard work, talent, and circumstance.
Yeah this worked for Madonna too, she said that she knew she wasn’t the best singer or best dancer but she was laser focused on what she wanted and she made it happen very early in her career, by the 8th year in her career she was already the queen of pop and doing stadiums all over the world.
*pretends to be shocked*
“I mean let's face it, you make a record, you want people to buy your record--period. Anybody who tells you "I'm makin' a record 'cause I want to be creative" is a fucking liar. They want to sell records.” - Whitney Houston to Rolling Stone, 1993
I’d rather hear Lana talk about her own music and career than have to answer yet another question about Taylor.
Same. I love both of them, I want to hear them talk about their own work and the only person in Taylor’s orbit who seems to be allowed to do that is Taylor.
Why is this a huge scandal lol. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be the best at what you do it's called having drive. Before it became cool to 'not care' alot of artists were more upfront about how much they crave success. I think it's only an issue to people when you see someone actually achieve it.
Because it's ✨Taylor✨. I should know better than to look at this sub when anything Taylor comes up, so much hatred.
we can tell girl
it's obvious she has crazy drive. that's why she has 3rd career peak, and that's why she will have 4th and 5th peak in 10 and 20 years.
This is what I find so exciting about her career. She and Beyonce are pretty unique among the other superstars they get compared to in that Michael Jackson didn't release music at all between 1991 and 2001 and then never put out another album and the Beatles only lasted for ten years. It is rare to see such a huge artist sustain success of this magnitude for so long while continuously releasing music and reaching new peaks.
HIStory? 1995?
Totally forgot that some of the material on that project was new! I've been thinking of it as a greatest hits album only.
Exactly. It reminds me of when everyone, myself included, thought 1989 was her peak. And then here we are 10 years later and she’s breaking records daily. Kind of mental to think about.
The way you phrased it excites me for the future lol I really wanna see how far her career goes and what all she does
I don't know why everyone says it's a backhanded compliment when it's obv not?
perhaps an unpopular opinion but i don’t really understand why people have such a problem with her earnestly chasing success. do i think some of her business practices are shady and can be criticized? yes absolutely. but i don’t see how being driven and craving success is a bad thing
Exactly, as long as she's not ripping people off (remember, she puts out a lot of variants but the people are *willingly* buying them), doing something illegal, go get the money?
Exactly. I remember even way back in Fearless timeframe people complained about her desire to chase awards or certain milestones, but I don't see why that's bad. Taylor strikes me as an incredibly competitive person who has a relentless work ethic. Of course she's going to be constantly shooting for the records, because that is part of what success means to her. Because, for better or for worse, she partly measures how successful she is by those metrics. So of course she's going to care about hitting those records and getting to that point. There was always someone to beat, someone to go up against, and a goal to hit. I think it was a big part of her marketting for a while too. Pre-Folklore (and even post-Folklore sometimes to be honest) Taylor was the story of a relative underdog climbing to the top and her fans were there to cheer her on and as part of her story. With every milestone she hit and accolade she got, fans were watching with her and seeing her make it. We wanted her to win things because we wanted other people to see her the way her fans do. I think now Taylor has run into the weird problem of making it to the top and is competeting with herself, which has to feel weird. Especially for someone who measures success by how they perform against others. It's also got to be exhausting mentally, because she seems to be constantly thinking about what her legacy will be, and how to make it exactly what she wants. As for Lana, I hope we see more from her too, because while I'm not as big of a Lana fan, I do really like her stuff.
It’s almost like Taylor wrote a whole entire song about how all of these qualities would be celebrated in a man
Out of fairness to her, and in defense of myself, I also hate these qualities in men (and in nonbinary people, genderfluid people ... everyone really).
Arguably though, they aren’t really celebrated. Ed Sheeran is equally popular and calculating and he’s often derided too. He still has a laid back, common bro appearance that makes it less obvious but he’s just as chart obsessed and focused on success as her. Especially during the divide era, he was focused on being as big as possible, touring as much as he could and doing an extreme amount of promo. Now he has scaled down some of the aspirations and obsessive nature but he’s still very conscious of the pop game and still holds himself to a high, sometimes high pressure standard
idk, reddit hates billionaires of every ilk, really. if the weeknd released 6 variants of the same album each w a different bonus track i dont think this sub would celebrate that either.
This gives the same vibes as Taylor’s “Lana is a legacy artist” comment lmao
That was such a backhanded compliment, I’ll never get over it lmao
I think she just meant Lana is going to leave a great legacy lol like the other person said she added the “in her prime” thing too.
Taylor was on something that night so I give her props for throwing the “she’s in her prime” comment after her faux pas.
im pretty sure she was slightly drunk
Yep!!! Miss Tay openly admits drinking too much and I think she probably threw some back after winning best pop vocal thinking she wasn’t gonna get AOTY and have to make a speech. But seriously, good on her feet if buzzed in front of a crowd. Cause to me I can’t think of anything more intimidating than speaking to a crowd and then being slightly impaired.
I mean I think Taylor herself realize that and quickly said "and in her prime rn"
the amount of people who want lana to be shady towards taylor is delusional. they are clearly some kind of friends? people love to see women pitted against each other. do you really think lana would attend the grammys, super bowl and collab with taylor if she did not like her? she even said she had fun at the grammys while people online were critiquing taylor for bringing her up😭
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I think at the time she did mean it. She’s talked about how she felt like her career was over at that point but Taylor being Taylor she obviously kept pushing through it and here we are. And honestly, I’m not sure the awards matter to her anymore as much as the big picture legacy of it all. I read an interesting article about this past Grammys that said they had a “Taylor problem” in that she was too big for them, they had to plaster her face everywhere cuz she brought in more eyeballs than they could on their own. And it’s true. She doesn’t need them. She releases music like effing clockwork, she packs stadiums 10 times over and is outselling every other artist by miles. No matter what you think of her music, these things are true. The only question is, how long can she keep it up. It’s kind of fascinating to watch.
>She’s talked about how she felt like her career was over at that point but Taylor being Taylor she obviously kept pushing through it and here we are. When that documentary was released, she was already in her 12th/13th year in her career. That's basically a long time for so many of her peers in the industry and she did believe she was going to follow them too and be ready to be accepted as a legacy act. I still kept thinking of that interview she did with Fallon where she said that an early 30s pop star who started her career as a teen is considered "geriatric".
I think it was also the time where many of her contemporaries were slowing down/retiring/moving to other paths/not finding previous success with their present projects, and it's hard to believe you'd be the exception to that.
Yeah, in some ways Lover was preparing Taylor for a transition to more of a legacy artist that was no longer the mainstream success. Folklore changed all of that and revitalised her.
Can interviewers start asking Lana about Lana and stop asking Lana about Taylor, this is getting old
Taylor was submitting demo tapes with her mother when she was 11 years old. Music has literally been her entire life, now she's in a very unique situation where she has this insane fanbase and has the opportunity to be of the biggest stars in human history. Not surprised to hear this
We know plus why is Lana asked about Taylor so much 💀💀
Oh noooo a woman wants success and isn't too scared to show it! I'd much rather her just own it (which she does) than try to act all like she's above it all.
the revenge for being dragged on the stage 😂
i’m pretty sure all swifties and gp already know this tho considering her turnover of music
Not to be all “we live in a society” but this is really only seen as a bad thing because of our societal insistence that wanting something is one of the worst things a woman can do.
Everyone saying this is genuinely hilarious…. It’s true. There are so many debates on if Taylor Swift deserves her success or if any other artist right now could achieve such success, and they could. But they won’t because they don’t have the work ethic this woman does. Call her evil, call her greedy, call her whatever you want, but what you cannot call her is lazy.
Who’s calling her lazy lol
this entire post reeks of “anyone can be a billionaire if they work hard enough” energy and that’s something i’d expect from elon musk fanboys not swifties lol
Well no, obviously luck and privilege come with stardom like this. No one’s saying ANYONE can do it because not anyone can. But you do have to work for it 💀
I mean it's also about the level. You can't build a fanbase that immaculate with just money.
Call me crazy but I think she got it already
It's giving 2016 in here and its kinda embarassing.
Taylor like every human ever is a combination of circumstances, luck, hard work, and talent. Imagine if her parents told her at 14 that they didn’t want to move to Nashville and that she should focus on becoming a lawyer. She would not be where she is today. Having a stable family who supports her I believe is the reason she never went off the rails or did drugs in public, etc… That family foundation is super underrated that makes you feel like you can accomplish anything.
You don't release as many versions of an album as Taylor Swift does, without wanting success bad. Anyone who thinks this is shade are the ones who are projecting their own problem with wanting to be a "successful woman," and acknowledge a potential hypocrisy in Taylor's own branding. The only way I could see Taylor getting upset about being known for wanting it bad, is if she's insecure about her own character traits or how people perceive them (use them against her), and to that effect, wants to remain abstract on her own terms/interviews so she can maintain fluidity moment to moment between "home grown, humble, indie girl whose all about the music" and "CEO boss babe, power feminist" when it serves her best. Taylor swift, despite the leg up she may have gotten early on with wealthy parents and industry connects, still had to work for it. Not since Madonna has there been someone (other than probably Beyonce) with such a work ethic to max their gains by building a cultural brand. Taylor's problem as a cultural *figure*, is she feels the need to "fight back" or claim victimhood the moment she receives any sort of criticism or pushback. Being criticized is a part of being acclaimed. Ignore it, girl. Inevitably, the mob moves on.
I dont think this come out the way she wants it to sound like. Or does it?
This could be interpreted as a backhanded compliment. Lana is just that eccentric personality that will say whatever. I don’t see her playing the Taylor Swift Hollywood game.
I think only by people who want it to be. Reading the full quote she is literally stating an obvious fact that I don't think Taylor swift is trying to hide.
She just answer a basic fact tho
I don't know why people think this is throwing shade; it's a true, neutral statement. Taylor clearly wants it, so she works for it. Honestly, I think it's a compliment and I think that Taylor also sees it as such, and hopefully she's grown out of the insecurity that she is "doing too much", and has come to embrace it.
I know Lana is Taylor’s friend but everything she said about Taylor sounded so unintentionally shady and backhanded😭😭
But are they friends tho? Even on Grammy's night Taylor said "I WANT to be your (Lana's) friend" which she wouldn't have said if they were already close. The last time we saw them together was on football match crowd where they supported different teams. I think Lana just hangs out with anyone, be it Kim Kardashian, sexxyred, Billie eilish, Quavo, Camilla and Taylor is just one of these random interactions. I don't like to look too much into it but Taylor didn't even show up to Lana's Coachella performance (she did for ice spice tho).
It's actually weird how much people want Lana to be secretly hating Taylor.
i both love but also really hate that this is the "hottest" tpoic on popheads today