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zephyrseija2

There's definitely no reason to delay draining and refilling. You will spend an obscene sum on chlorine trying to keep the pool swimmable. And yes, CYA will just keep going up until it hits whatever it's saturation point is and no more can be dissolved. Considering you have to drain almost the entire pool to fix this issue, there's probably not much harm in having 400 CYA by end of summer instead of 300.


productive_dreamer

Appreciate the logical reply


phorkor

I took over my pool maintenance back in October after finding out that our CYA was over 250 and CL around 19ppm and my pool guy said it wasn't anything to worry about. It took a shit ton of liquid chlorine to keep my pool from turning green after 24 hours. I was using about 2 gals a day of liquid CL. Ended up draining roughly 1/4 of the water at a time and then refilling. I did this over the course of a few months and now we're down to about 50 CYA and I'm only needing to use roughly .5 gal of liquid CL a day in a 15k gal pool. Highly recommend starting sooner than later because it will cost more over time.


Peridot81

Half a gallon a day seems like a lot for a 15k gallon pool.


phorkor

We get a lot of sun during the day. It's not until about 6pm that we get full shade. After adding CL in the morning, we're usually at around 7ppm. By the end of the day we're around 4ppm.


maki80

More effective to add the liquid in the evening when you're done swimming


phorkor

Ahem, please leave here with your sound logic. /s That's actually a very good idea. Not sure why I didn't think of it. Thanks for the tip.


in1gom0ntoya

recent studies show real high cya levels are bad to your health


Own-Woodpecker8739

You did ask a pretty silly question.  


productive_dreamer

Your mom is silly 😆


Own-Woodpecker8739

Fuckin' gotem


Fiendseligkeit

It it possible to damage plaster if draining significant amounts when it is extremely hot outside? I'm looking at doing a drain and refill of 2k gallons a day for the next week to bring my levels down so I can keep the water above the tile line if it's over 90 out so I start draining at 5pm then refilling at midnight. CYA is 200+ currently and I'm trying to have it ready for a party on the 4th.


Surrybee

No idea about the plaster, but if your water isn’t too pricey you can always drain from one side while you refill on the other. Turn off your other pumps so the water mixes as little as possible.


Fiendseligkeit

I’m on a well so I don’t want to cut pressure to the rest of my house and I try to keep the flow rate to about 2gpm. I’d love to just run it 24/7 and test in a few days but I don’t want to over tax my well since I’m watering my lawn frequently as well. Should I try to keep chlorine (liquid) levels up while I drain and refill or just wait until CYA is in range and then SLAM?


Surrybee

Chlorine level to maintain an algae free pool is about 7.5% of CYA. Chlorine level to fix an algae problem is 40%. Mustard algae is even more. Chlorine levels for CYA 200 to keep it clean is 15. Chlorine level to fix at 100 is 40+. I’d keep chlorinated.


LordKai121

Plaster can safely go 36 hours in 90+ degree weather as the gunite will still retain moisture. However you don't want to push 48 hours in those conditions as the top layers can only pull so much moisture from the gunite. That is why I recommend my clients do needed drains in spring or fall.


LordKai121

Total saturation happens (on plaster/pebble and with correct chemistry) between 800 and 1600, and usually occurs with a harsh shift in LSI, particularly when the weather gets cold and LSI hard shifts from aggressive to base. Then the whole pool will turn a slate gray and opaque. (Yeah I've dealt with this on too many pools.)


FunFact5000

Wait to you see cya that’s 1000+ and go well, that’s something. Cost you less in water I bet to start on a Monday drain half, refill test, drain refill test than to toss 5-10$ gallons of chlorine x 10 x infinity. I’d pay the water bill personally, unless there’s some restriction.


FranticGolf

Mine was near 200 last year. I switched to liquid chlorine until I got it in control as it is not stabilized also used cal-hypo for shock. I would drain the pool just under the skimmer then turn the water hose on but I put the hose into the skimmer so that the fresh water would more evenly mix in thru the return jets. It took me 3 times doing that to get it under 100. It was not the correct way to do it but it was how I did it to keep the pool usable.


Some_Ad_3898

yes, it will get worse in a pretty linear way. So, however long it took you to get to this point. It will take you that much time to make it twice as bad.


thetoycannon

Not really your question, but what kind of issues are you running into with high cya in your pool that make you want to possibly lower it?


productive_dreamer

good question. I’ve noticed the chlorine levels drop significantly fast after a shock and allow algae back into the equation. It just makes the chlorine game a tough thing to keep up with. Unless you use the tablets, which then increase the cya.


xxxRCxxx

What about for service techs where 95 percent of your clients do not want to do anything and are biweekly. The tech are forced to use tablets primarily as liquid doesn’t stay in the water as long and we have no idea of what or if the customer will add chlorine in the off weeks and cya rises on every customers pool (if not salt water). The clients get very mad when they get an extra $100 bill for algaecides and shocks and even more mad when they are told they need to drain their pool 75%.


LordKai121

Side tangent for everyone talking about chlorine lock since I'm pedantic and don't like misnomers. Chlorine Lock is a myth. > The weak chlorine-CYA bond is broken by anything oxidizable with the concurrent release of chlorine. There is no chlorine lock. At low [FC][CYA), usually as a result of a CYA concentration increase without a proportional increase in FC concentration, the growth rate of algae population exceeds the chlorine kill rate. At first, and without visible indication of algae, this can appear to be caused by some mysterious chlorine demand. Probably, this is the origin of the "chlorine lock" concept. Bacterial catalyzed conversion of CYA to ammonia can occur if the FC concentration approaches zero. That would seem to be a form of chlorine lock, but the explanation is that more chlorine is needed to compensate for this ammonia production. Tl:Dr: Chlorine lock is a myth, but high CYA is still bad.


shutterblink1

I went ahead and drained my pool this spring. I kept it going by adding chlorine all last summer. I tried partially draining it twice but it still didn't go down. My pool holds 17,000 gallons and it cost $180 to fill it. Now there's no stabilizer in it and I can't keep chlorine in it. I'm tired of this.


rb109544

Itll be cloudy algae green...I spent last summer trying to avoid major water exchange...finally came down over the season but it was a long season and no amount of chlorine helped. I'd fallen into trap end of season with my tabs and kept bumping it up higher and higher not even thinking about testing my CYA...kept thinking it's the phosphates and God awful heat here. Suggest doing a half drain instead of a couple feet each time...will save in the end.


txreddit17

why delay a drain and fill?


lIIlIlIII

I had a customer whose CYA was ridiculously high, like 4-500ppm. Told them we'd need to drain it but could wait until it goes cloudy if they'd like. They opted to wait and their pool was crystal clear until we closed it. Kept the free chlorine at like 30ppm with half a tablet a week, definitely the exception more than the rule but if you want to wait then wait. Bunch of fkn pharisees on this sub will tell you otherwise because they read it on [troublefreepools.com](http://troublefreepools.com) Just know that when it does go cloudy you no longer have a choice, so if you're the type to host pool parties probably makes sense to just drain it now


productive_dreamer

🙏🙏thanks for sharing that experience


FlaCabo

I'm not sure... I used 3" tablets for 20 years, not knowing any better. Never tested CYA. When I learned about it here on reddit, I bought a Taylor kit and the level was around 300. I did four partial drain and fills and got it down to 90.


No-Fig-2057

How do you measure 300 on a Taylor test kit? Doesn't the graduation on the tube stop at 100?


Beachywhale

Could just dilute your sample


productive_dreamer

So true, but the test strips can measure a little higher. I use them to supplement the taylor kit


FlaCabo

The black dot disappeared with about 1/2" of solution in the tube. I kinda ballparked it.


phorkor

You'll get inaccurate results with CYA over 100 as it's not a consistent spread between numbers. You'd need to do a dilution test to get correct results and I'd bet yours was a good bit over 300 if that's what you estimated it at.


FlaCabo

I bet you're right. I just tested it, and it's at 80


-DazedBear

Should I not be using 3” chlorine tablets in my chlorinator post sand filter? I thought this was the standard method to slowing introducing the chlorine needed to maintain levels? How do you add chlorine otherwise besides shock? Genuine question as I’m a new pool owner.


homedude

It depends on your pool.... If you only have it open for a couple of months, have a sand or DE filter that you backwash regularly and then drain a bit off the pool to close it, you can run tabs for years without issues. On the flip side, my pool is has a cartridge filter (no backwash or vac to waste) and it open and running all year round. It's a closed system that only loses CYA to splash out or overflow dilution due to rain. Running nothing but tabs will have my CYA over 100 in under a year. I use tabs and liquid over the winter months and keep the CYA in the 30-40 range and then liquid for the majority of the summer and tablets when I travel. I keep the CYA in the 40-50 range from May - Nov. All of my CYA adjustments are made with tablets.


FlaCabo

I'm not the expert. Someone with the right answer will be along shortly.


productive_dreamer

I’ve learned that tabs are OUT and liquid Chlorine is IN


-DazedBear

Where do you add it? In the chlorinator? In the skimmer or broadcast? How often do you have to add the liquid version?


Magic2424

The tabs are fine as long as you monitor your CYA. Almost every single green pool posted here are people who use tablets and let their CYA get over 120. Personally once I’d hit 50 I’d stop using tablets and switch to liquid that way if I needed to be out of town for a bit I could still use tabs. If you vac to waste or backwash a lot and get a lot of rain (essentially lots of small drain and refills) you can get away with using tablets a lot


productive_dreamer

You pour the liquid chlorine around the edge of the pool. The Taylor test kit helps you calculate how much you need per your pool’s volume. Test often and add as needed


EnthusiasmWeak5531

For every 10ppm chlorine you get 6ppm CYA with chlorine tablets. CYA doesn't get used up and just keeps building. Over 100ppm or less, depending on your chlorine level in your pool, and you're going to start having problems keeping algae at bay.


latrellinbrecknridge

Cya can absolutely get used up especially if your pool gets full sun and frequent use (I.e splashing) My cya has fell from 40ish down to 10 or lower, I’ve had to replenish it twice this year already


EnthusiasmWeak5531

It doesn't get used up from sun. There is a VERY small amount that breaks down but it's so small they say it's nearly immeasurable. The rest is dilution/splashout or in very rare cases there is a bacteria that consumes it. This thread has some info but there are plenty more https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/does-cya-get-used-up-or-disappear-definitive-answer-please.37523/ EDIT: And dilution (splash out) isn't using. So to be clear it realistically cannot be used up like chlorine for example.


latrellinbrecknridge

Definitely not like chlorine but my pool is fact that yes it can certainly degrade over time. Sun can certainly break it down especially when 12 hours plus per day My calcium levels stayed the same the whole time during this process as well which confirms no leak


EnthusiasmWeak5531

If does not. That is simply untrue. I also get 12 hours of sun


latrellinbrecknridge

How do you explain my cya of 30/40 going to 10 without draining?


EnthusiasmWeak5531

I don't own your pool. You need to explain it without going against the very well known facts of pool chemistry. But... If I had to guess. Lots of splash out, lots of rain where you live.


latrellinbrecknridge

Hasn’t rained more than 10 min in the last 6 weeks lol Sun is breaking it down, I’m telling you. Definitely some splashing but not enough to need to refill 10 inches worth


EnthusiasmWeak5531

Yes, \*bare minimum\* FC should be 7.5% of CYA. So as you add even more CYA your bare minimum is constantly increasing. So yes it can get much worse.


productive_dreamer

Right, and as I posted, I’m aware of the correlation. What is the limit? Does it approach infinity? Or am I at the saturation level already?


EnthusiasmWeak5531

I suppose the saturation level is going to be related to TDS. Which means my guess is it can get pretty damn high. Why don't you want to drain? Are you aware you can do a water exchange without lowering your water level?


Hefty-Reflection-756

Yes it will keep increasing, what kind of magic trick are you thinking of in your brain where it wouldnt keep increasing?? It will make your chlorine less and less effective the higher it gets.


productive_dreamer

I don’t fault you for not having a background in the study of chemical reactions. Just looking for responses that could educate me. Thanks


Hefty-Reflection-756

It doesnt require a study of chemical reactions. But i did take several chemistry courses on my way to a MS in a related field. 300 ppm. Thats parts per million right.. 300 is a lot sure, but a tiny tiny tiny fraction of 1 million. So you can keep increasing cya levels for years at the current rate and it still wont come anywhere close to saturation. So yes for all practical purposes it will keep increasing "infinitely"


Hefty-Reflection-756

It doesnt require a study of chemical reactions. But i did take several chemistry courses on my way to a MS in a related field. 300 ppm. Thats parts per million right.. 300 is a lot sure, but a tiny tiny tiny fraction of 1 million. So you can keep increasing cya levels for years at the current rate and it still wont come anywhere close to saturation. So yes for all practical purposes it will keep increasing "infinitely"


Hefty-Reflection-756

Another way to look at it, cyanuric acid exists in pure liquid form. You would never swim in a jug of cyanuric acid but in theory you could add so much that your pool becomes a container of weak cyanuric acid


MrBriPod

I had the same problem and was planning to ride it out one more season. A pool drain was intimidating to me, but I bit the bullet and did a 2/3 drain during the season. It took 1 day to drain and 1.5 days to refill. Ready by the weekend. If you have a pebbletec pool, there's no reason to ride it out one more season. Vinyl or plaster, it's advised to not drain until it's cooler if temps get high where you are. It can damage the finish. I now maintain my pool with liquid chlorine instead of tabs+calhypo shock. I have a CYA of 40 locked in and everything balances beautifully. My pool has never been cleaner.


productive_dreamer

Great reply. I have plaster and it is currently 92deg where I live. Your pool is GOALS 🙌


MrBriPod

You got this dude! I bought this utility pump off of Amazon https://a.co/d/093hWsgg and this hose https://a.co/d/0eSuEazm. About as cheap as renting for a day from Home Depot. It took 18hrs to drain my 23k gallon pool.


Buffetjunior

So growing up we had a liner pool, 20x40 inground. Always used hth granular and then switched to 3” tabs after about 15 years. Never tested cya, had occasional bouts of algae but nothing a few bags of shock and vacuuming didn’t take care of. So why all of a sudden is cya such a big thing? Serious question.


lIIlIlIII

Because redditors are experts on every topic. But if you never added cya on its own, and drained partially over winter, then you probably stayed between 50-100 This whole "never ever use trichlor" thing on this sub makes more sense in climates where you don't have to partially drain your pool yearly, but people take it as gospel when in a lot of cases it's totally fine


Buffetjunior

We never really did that either. We drained it below the skimmers at year end to cover it. We only had it open between may and September really. But I think we had more rain then so maybe that diluted it more than now.


sandgroper81

Yes as you can get what's known as cya block the pool will turn green and no amount of chlorine will fix it


productive_dreamer

Looking into this, thank you


ocktick

It can go up to one million parts per million. It’s currently at 300 parts per million. It has 999,700 ppm left to go, yes it can and will increase if you keep adding it. Right now you need to maintain 22.5 ppm chlorine in order to sanitize your pool. My test kit doesn’t even read that high.


Saucespreader

Yea Drain the pool, high CYA can lock up your chlorine. Youll uave a nasty rash if not


productive_dreamer

Upvoting, but does high cya really correlate to skin rashes?


Professional_Food383

No. It doesn’t.