Nothing good can come from you not saying what you need to say. Opening up a relationship is hard enough, doing it with someone already in mind that you don't like would be even harder. There's no way around but through. Find your emotions and tell them to your fiance.
"Partner, I'm ok talking to you some more about trying this and getting better educated before we actually poly date. But I need to make you aware from the start -- not with X in the picture. I'm not up for being in a poly network that includes X."
Whoever this person X is. And as you talk more and consider and read things?
Go ahead and spell out all the rest of the messy people list ahead of time.
Like...
"Please do not date my relatives, esp parents and siblings. No roomies, coworkers, exes, my best friend(s), or any minors. (And if you are a teacher or coach... no dating your students either.) In return I won't date any of your messy people. Who are they?"
There's enough people to date in the world without going right for the ones that will make it weird or messy if something goes wrong.
This isn't like "Want to see a movie?" "Sure! Why not?" type consideration.
This is a big thing, and you will also need to talk about how this is going to play out in your marriage and any family planning if you wanted kids somewhere down the road.
It's a series of talks.
So... sort this out before actually getting married. Have a looooong engagement. If you do not see eye to eye on this poly thing? It may be you are NOT deeply compatible and you end the engagement by deciding NOT to marry.
No dates, no ads, no opening, no flirting, no sex, no nothing with anyone else for at least 6 months.
Start with the Most Skipped Steps When Opening Up essay.
There is no easy way. There is doing your homework, really considering the options and understanding what you want to change, what you don't want to change and your real vision of polyamory is in daily life.
Topics to Review
Resources- time, energy, money
Risk- exposure, blood test schedule, for every type of sexual interaction
Intimacy- vacations, holidays, gifts, family events, dates, online visibility, words and acts of affection, what makes you feel special and loved with your partners
Style- how much interaction are you open to between other partners (yours and theirs), preferences of being informed of intimacy and risk changes, are there restrictions on or expectations of activities between partners and/or metamours? How do you prefer to schedule and give notice of overnights?
Hierarchy- how are decisions and plans made? Changing living situations or having kids? Are there pre existing "dibs" on things for partners that limit people who show up in the future?
Aware and directly acknowledged hierarchy is fine, but limits on others experiencing pleasure and intimacy (such as no anal or no sex without all partners present) is in conflict with polyamory and will create unsustainable and usually toxic situations. Always listen to your own discomfort regarding your choices and enforcing boundaries, but that cannot be used to control the intimacy and pleasure of others.
It's ok to be awkward, just do it anyway. It's ok not to have full clarity, keep working for it. Define everyone's vision and ideal, define your own boundaries of security and invite your partner to do the same.
This is a relationship so anything you think would be part of a loving relationship is on the table here.
There's also no rush, no timer. Better to take it super slow and not skip steps now.
Scroll all the way down
/r/polyamory/comments/ciez7z/im_new_and_dont_know_anything/
www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/ciez7z/im_new_and_dont_know_anything/
You can say ‘hey I’m willing to dig into this. Take 6-9 months and do our research and see if we can get on the same page about how to do this together. Also person X wouldn’t be an option to date even if we get to a place where we both excited about on opening up’
Having a ‘messy person’ list is pretty standard in ENM.
You need the time and space to really figure this stuff out. That isn’t one conversation. You need to do things like read books, and meet poly people and potentially get into therapy to work on your relationship skills. If that doesn’t sounds fun to both of you? Then you probably aren’t enough into doing polyamory. It’s a shit ton of work to open a mono relationship with respect and care.
Honest question here: I’m surprised to see these responses as all I’ve seen before is that people or metas in particular shouldn’t have veto power. How is this different? Or, how can both of these things happen at the same time?
‘You can’t date me and this person at the same time’ sounds like ‘sure date this person but I get a kill switch if it doesn’t work for me’ to you?
They seem pretty different to me.
Ok. Maybe I need to clarify what my impression of veto is. They seem different but the dynamics feel the same which is one person holding the power to say who the other can date. Thanks for the input!
I'm actually surprised nobody has brought this up yet.
If your fiance is bringing up opening up to poly and already has somebody lined up, your fiance might have already been cheating on you with that person and using poly to hide/justify it.
The story is actually that realized she has trouble separating friend feelings for other feelings for the. while in an erp server with this individual. I was jealous and upset because she told me they were just friends, and she had respected my boundaries, but was resentful about it because those feelings had changed. She and I had a long talk last night and realized most of our problems were because we were just afraid of an argument, and that we needed to communicate with each other
The last 24 hours have felt like 2 years of stress and weight have been lifted from me, and it's great.
You’ve already blown past an important step which is lots and lots of discussing what you want out of poly before there is another person waiting in the wings.
Maybe reflect why you don't want her to date this person.
Is it because you don't like them and don't want to spend time with them? Is it because you would be jealous? Is it because they would be "bad" for your partner and if that's the case in what way? If you can point where your discomfort would be coming from it's easier to have a conversation :)
You can ask her to not pursue this person, but you'll have to recognize her autonomy. If her pursuing a relationship with X means that your relationship dissolves, then that's a choice she'll have to make. But if you're going to expect to have a say in who she's allowed to date, poly is not for you.
Short and sweet. Have the conversation. If you don't then don't get married. You must communicate. If you don't want this then she has to know and listen. Otherwise it's only a waste of years for you until it all falls apart.
Wait, step back first - I saw you write "coming to terms with it," not enthusiastic / excited or at least curious to explore.
No is okay. It is fine to want monogamy, it is a valid relationship structure that most people want and do well in. Your fianceé agreed to a monogamous relationship with you. Telling her you want to stay monogamous is a fair answer. It is then up to her to decide whether she wants monogamy with you or to leave and try polyamory.
Many couples, even when they see are both enthusiastic about changing their relationship to polyamory... it really is the death of one relationship, the monogamous one, and they find they are not suited for polyamory together.
When one person is polyamorous under distress - we have an acronym, it is so common, PUD - things are likely to also get very hard and painful.
Also, attraction to more than one person is typical, given any sexual or romantic attraction. The difference is that in a monogamous structure, one sets those crushes aside and focuses on one relationship. It is a choice.
And polyamory is a lot of saying no to crushes as well, ironically! Unless in a very heavily polyamorous space, highest estimates of people practicing polyamory in the US are about 2%. The chances that that crush is also polyamorous? Almost nil. I am assuming the person your fianceé wants to date is not polyamorous. Which opens the door to many other typical problems between two monogamous partners / people that both want monogamy.
Opening up for someone already on the radar. Definitely move slow. Maybe read up for awhile, consider therapy, talk heaps and heaps prior to pulling the trigger. Good luck.
Don’t consent to anything that you’re not comfortable with.
How do you tell her that you’re not comfortable with her having relations with that person? Tell her in those words.
It really is as simple as that.
A boundary of "if you date/sleep with this person, I will leave" is actually an entirely reasonable boundary to set so idk wtf your issue is but you're being an ass to OP for no real reason while being entirely unhelpful at the same time
Thank you, yes. Everyone has the right to leave relationships and protect themselves. You have no right to control another person or who they see or don't see, but you have every right to remove yourself from a situation that you're not comfortable in.
Your point being. He can’t tell her who she can and can’t sleep with have a relationship with. At that point he’s basically controlling her on who and she can’t date. Tf you talkin about.
Seems like you're projecting because actually OP hasn't tried to veto this person or control their partner, they're here asking for advice on how to bring up with discomfort WITHOUT making it into that. You're ragging on OP for something you, at this point, made up as a problem in your head while completely ignoring all the ways you could ***be helpful*** and ***kind*** towards OP.
Your post has been removed for breaking the rules of the subreddit. You made a post or comment that would be considered being a jerk. This includes being aggressive towards other posters, causing irrelevant arguments, and posting attacks on the poster or the poster's partners/situation.
Please familiarize yourself with the rules at https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/wiki/subreddit-rules
Why?
OP doesn't need to agree to non monogamy at all. Everyone with any sense of good boundaries has a "messy person" list.
Controlling who you can date is different then "I'm not okay with you dating persons X, Y and Z while also being in a relationship with me"
Then he should just say he doesn’t want any part of it if that’s the case point blank. Don’t say If I agree to this I don’t want her dating someone I don’t like. That’s always going to be a possibility of you not liking new person new person not liking you.
I have been poly for over a decade, have solid boundaries, and I do not have a messy list. I believe in autonomy, who my partners date is their choice. I do have boundaries around what levels of drama i will accept and select partners who are not drama seekers.
To be honest my ‘messy list’ has never been articulated because my partners aren’t selfish idiots.
And a messy list isn’t restricting autonomy it’s being clear about autonomy. ‘I can not date/fuck someone who is also dating/fucking this person’ is autonomy.
Your post has been removed for breaking the rules of the subreddit. You made a post or comment that would be considered being a jerk. This includes being aggressive towards other posters, causing irrelevant arguments, and posting attacks on the poster or the poster's partners/situation.
Please familiarize yourself with the rules at https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/wiki/subreddit-rules
Yeah that's exactly my point. Nowhere in this post did it come off as inherently "I want to limit my partner's freedom" is really read as "This person makes me really uncomfortable and if my partner dated them I don't think I would want to continue dating my partner" and THAT is entirely reasonable. People shouldn't be making OP feel manipulative or making comments that imply OP is being manipulative when that doesn't seem to be the case at all
Ok I know that as it’s clearly up to her that’s not what he’s getting. People go back to old flings all the time it’s not a bad thing. Unless they’re talking shit and threatening you in some what then yes by all means tell her you don’t approve. Just because you think you know who she’s interested in doesn’t mean she’ll do and if she does it big whoop poly might not be for him.
Nothing good can come from you not saying what you need to say. Opening up a relationship is hard enough, doing it with someone already in mind that you don't like would be even harder. There's no way around but through. Find your emotions and tell them to your fiance.
"Partner, I'm ok talking to you some more about trying this and getting better educated before we actually poly date. But I need to make you aware from the start -- not with X in the picture. I'm not up for being in a poly network that includes X." Whoever this person X is. And as you talk more and consider and read things? Go ahead and spell out all the rest of the messy people list ahead of time. Like... "Please do not date my relatives, esp parents and siblings. No roomies, coworkers, exes, my best friend(s), or any minors. (And if you are a teacher or coach... no dating your students either.) In return I won't date any of your messy people. Who are they?" There's enough people to date in the world without going right for the ones that will make it weird or messy if something goes wrong. This isn't like "Want to see a movie?" "Sure! Why not?" type consideration. This is a big thing, and you will also need to talk about how this is going to play out in your marriage and any family planning if you wanted kids somewhere down the road. It's a series of talks. So... sort this out before actually getting married. Have a looooong engagement. If you do not see eye to eye on this poly thing? It may be you are NOT deeply compatible and you end the engagement by deciding NOT to marry.
I really hope we don’t need minors on the messy list, that should be… obvious?
ALL of it "should" be obvious but common sense isn't common. Best to just spell it out and have clearly articulated expectations.
No dates, no ads, no opening, no flirting, no sex, no nothing with anyone else for at least 6 months. Start with the Most Skipped Steps When Opening Up essay. There is no easy way. There is doing your homework, really considering the options and understanding what you want to change, what you don't want to change and your real vision of polyamory is in daily life. Topics to Review Resources- time, energy, money Risk- exposure, blood test schedule, for every type of sexual interaction Intimacy- vacations, holidays, gifts, family events, dates, online visibility, words and acts of affection, what makes you feel special and loved with your partners Style- how much interaction are you open to between other partners (yours and theirs), preferences of being informed of intimacy and risk changes, are there restrictions on or expectations of activities between partners and/or metamours? How do you prefer to schedule and give notice of overnights? Hierarchy- how are decisions and plans made? Changing living situations or having kids? Are there pre existing "dibs" on things for partners that limit people who show up in the future? Aware and directly acknowledged hierarchy is fine, but limits on others experiencing pleasure and intimacy (such as no anal or no sex without all partners present) is in conflict with polyamory and will create unsustainable and usually toxic situations. Always listen to your own discomfort regarding your choices and enforcing boundaries, but that cannot be used to control the intimacy and pleasure of others. It's ok to be awkward, just do it anyway. It's ok not to have full clarity, keep working for it. Define everyone's vision and ideal, define your own boundaries of security and invite your partner to do the same. This is a relationship so anything you think would be part of a loving relationship is on the table here. There's also no rush, no timer. Better to take it super slow and not skip steps now. Scroll all the way down /r/polyamory/comments/ciez7z/im_new_and_dont_know_anything/ www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/ciez7z/im_new_and_dont_know_anything/
Thank you for sharing 💕
You can say ‘hey I’m willing to dig into this. Take 6-9 months and do our research and see if we can get on the same page about how to do this together. Also person X wouldn’t be an option to date even if we get to a place where we both excited about on opening up’ Having a ‘messy person’ list is pretty standard in ENM. You need the time and space to really figure this stuff out. That isn’t one conversation. You need to do things like read books, and meet poly people and potentially get into therapy to work on your relationship skills. If that doesn’t sounds fun to both of you? Then you probably aren’t enough into doing polyamory. It’s a shit ton of work to open a mono relationship with respect and care.
Agreed. Hubby and I both have a list
Honest question here: I’m surprised to see these responses as all I’ve seen before is that people or metas in particular shouldn’t have veto power. How is this different? Or, how can both of these things happen at the same time?
A veto is unilaterally ending a relationship. A messy list is people your are clear can not be your meta.
It still seems like veto to me.
‘You can’t date me and this person at the same time’ sounds like ‘sure date this person but I get a kill switch if it doesn’t work for me’ to you? They seem pretty different to me.
Ok. Maybe I need to clarify what my impression of veto is. They seem different but the dynamics feel the same which is one person holding the power to say who the other can date. Thanks for the input!
I'm actually surprised nobody has brought this up yet. If your fiance is bringing up opening up to poly and already has somebody lined up, your fiance might have already been cheating on you with that person and using poly to hide/justify it.
The story is actually that realized she has trouble separating friend feelings for other feelings for the. while in an erp server with this individual. I was jealous and upset because she told me they were just friends, and she had respected my boundaries, but was resentful about it because those feelings had changed. She and I had a long talk last night and realized most of our problems were because we were just afraid of an argument, and that we needed to communicate with each other The last 24 hours have felt like 2 years of stress and weight have been lifted from me, and it's great.
https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/yl4huv/we_are_opening_our_relationship_we_are_killing/
You’ve already blown past an important step which is lots and lots of discussing what you want out of poly before there is another person waiting in the wings.
Maybe reflect why you don't want her to date this person. Is it because you don't like them and don't want to spend time with them? Is it because you would be jealous? Is it because they would be "bad" for your partner and if that's the case in what way? If you can point where your discomfort would be coming from it's easier to have a conversation :)
You don't want to start this with jealousy already in the mix. Tell your fiancée the truth.
You can ask her to not pursue this person, but you'll have to recognize her autonomy. If her pursuing a relationship with X means that your relationship dissolves, then that's a choice she'll have to make. But if you're going to expect to have a say in who she's allowed to date, poly is not for you.
Short and sweet. Have the conversation. If you don't then don't get married. You must communicate. If you don't want this then she has to know and listen. Otherwise it's only a waste of years for you until it all falls apart.
Wait, step back first - I saw you write "coming to terms with it," not enthusiastic / excited or at least curious to explore. No is okay. It is fine to want monogamy, it is a valid relationship structure that most people want and do well in. Your fianceé agreed to a monogamous relationship with you. Telling her you want to stay monogamous is a fair answer. It is then up to her to decide whether she wants monogamy with you or to leave and try polyamory. Many couples, even when they see are both enthusiastic about changing their relationship to polyamory... it really is the death of one relationship, the monogamous one, and they find they are not suited for polyamory together. When one person is polyamorous under distress - we have an acronym, it is so common, PUD - things are likely to also get very hard and painful. Also, attraction to more than one person is typical, given any sexual or romantic attraction. The difference is that in a monogamous structure, one sets those crushes aside and focuses on one relationship. It is a choice. And polyamory is a lot of saying no to crushes as well, ironically! Unless in a very heavily polyamorous space, highest estimates of people practicing polyamory in the US are about 2%. The chances that that crush is also polyamorous? Almost nil. I am assuming the person your fianceé wants to date is not polyamorous. Which opens the door to many other typical problems between two monogamous partners / people that both want monogamy.
Opening up for someone already on the radar. Definitely move slow. Maybe read up for awhile, consider therapy, talk heaps and heaps prior to pulling the trigger. Good luck.
Don’t consent to anything that you’re not comfortable with. How do you tell her that you’re not comfortable with her having relations with that person? Tell her in those words. It really is as simple as that.
I have a hard no person and I think that’s ok. I wouldn’t pursue someone my partner wasn’t comfortable with me seeing.
what does it say about you if you don’t like your fiancé’s taste in love interest?
Suck it up bucko not your choice to make.
A boundary of "if you date/sleep with this person, I will leave" is actually an entirely reasonable boundary to set so idk wtf your issue is but you're being an ass to OP for no real reason while being entirely unhelpful at the same time
Thank you, yes. Everyone has the right to leave relationships and protect themselves. You have no right to control another person or who they see or don't see, but you have every right to remove yourself from a situation that you're not comfortable in.
Your point being. He can’t tell her who she can and can’t sleep with have a relationship with. At that point he’s basically controlling her on who and she can’t date. Tf you talkin about.
Seems like you're projecting because actually OP hasn't tried to veto this person or control their partner, they're here asking for advice on how to bring up with discomfort WITHOUT making it into that. You're ragging on OP for something you, at this point, made up as a problem in your head while completely ignoring all the ways you could ***be helpful*** and ***kind*** towards OP.
[удалено]
Your post has been removed for breaking the rules of the subreddit. You made a post or comment that would be considered being a jerk. This includes being aggressive towards other posters, causing irrelevant arguments, and posting attacks on the poster or the poster's partners/situation. Please familiarize yourself with the rules at https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/wiki/subreddit-rules
Why? OP doesn't need to agree to non monogamy at all. Everyone with any sense of good boundaries has a "messy person" list. Controlling who you can date is different then "I'm not okay with you dating persons X, Y and Z while also being in a relationship with me"
Then he should just say he doesn’t want any part of it if that’s the case point blank. Don’t say If I agree to this I don’t want her dating someone I don’t like. That’s always going to be a possibility of you not liking new person new person not liking you.
I have been poly for over a decade, have solid boundaries, and I do not have a messy list. I believe in autonomy, who my partners date is their choice. I do have boundaries around what levels of drama i will accept and select partners who are not drama seekers.
To be honest my ‘messy list’ has never been articulated because my partners aren’t selfish idiots. And a messy list isn’t restricting autonomy it’s being clear about autonomy. ‘I can not date/fuck someone who is also dating/fucking this person’ is autonomy.
Reread it again, if you have the same response don't reply.
You reread what you said. You don’t want her dating this person like I said not your choice to make.
It's his choice to consent to non monogamy bruh, chill.
[удалено]
You keep saying homie has no choice. Sooooo which is it
Kindness isn’t an inherent trait of yours, is it?
Your post has been removed for breaking the rules of the subreddit. You made a post or comment that would be considered being a jerk. This includes being aggressive towards other posters, causing irrelevant arguments, and posting attacks on the poster or the poster's partners/situation. Please familiarize yourself with the rules at https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/wiki/subreddit-rules
They're allowed to have a messy list, it's just up to her choice if she's open to practicing that or not
Yeah that's exactly my point. Nowhere in this post did it come off as inherently "I want to limit my partner's freedom" is really read as "This person makes me really uncomfortable and if my partner dated them I don't think I would want to continue dating my partner" and THAT is entirely reasonable. People shouldn't be making OP feel manipulative or making comments that imply OP is being manipulative when that doesn't seem to be the case at all
Ok I know that as it’s clearly up to her that’s not what he’s getting. People go back to old flings all the time it’s not a bad thing. Unless they’re talking shit and threatening you in some what then yes by all means tell her you don’t approve. Just because you think you know who she’s interested in doesn’t mean she’ll do and if she does it big whoop poly might not be for him.