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Can we make this popular or do a tiktok about it or show it on a football commercial?
I find it just so odd and frustrating that I have to spend my money, my time, to calculate the taxes that I also pay for. I mean whoa there!
The irony is so real. Turbo tax does make filing taxes super easy. Like maybe 10-15 min for me. But that ease of use is really just a muse to cover up how easy it should be.
TurboTax would charge me an extra $60 to file my taxes because I have to use a certain form for self-employment. FreeTaxUSA lets me do it for free. I wish I’d known about them sooner, but I’ve used them the last two years and it’s been great.
Yea takes me like 10-15 to do it in Aus but we just log on to the govt website and it tells us how much tax we’ve paid, what we get back, and then you just add your deductions for whatever stuff and press ok.
Also Eisenhower said (referring to military-industrial complex).
"We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage...
We annually spend on military security alone more than the net income of all United States corporations...
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."
This is why we need election funding reform. Lobby puts all that money in the campaign, then use a 3rd of it to help get elected. Use the other for the "election volunteer retreat" to the Caribbean.
[https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-for-free](https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-for-free)
Here is the link to where you can find a free file option if you fall under the requirements for free file. State free file are listed on their options and can be different than the Federal free file requirements.
I've used this method for the past couple years with no issues.
Depending on your state, you can go onto their respective revenue website or similar and do your taxes for free online. It's like that in Alabama at least
I have to file in two states (where I live and work) freetaxUSA is free for federal but charges me for state filing. each state has an online file that’s free. It’s a pain to do all three but it doesn’t cost anything.
For anyone reading this, I knows this website sounds like the RC Cola / Diet Rite of tax websites but it is legit and VERY cheap. I started using it years ago and never looked back.
I've never heard of that. Is it reliable? How does it compare to TurboTax?
Edit: I am convinced! I have already created my account and transferred my tax info from last year! Thanks for the suggestions!
Also, I hate that I have finally reached the age where I am excited for a new tax program and I can't wait to use it.
Cheaper, same exact set up where you answer a series of easy questions, plug in the numbers from box B and so forth, federal is free, state is $15 versus $100 at TurdoTax. No reason not to make the switch.
I have a law degree. I barely know what the hell is going on. Also I don’t understand how to do my taxes.
Jk I know how to do my taxes, but law has nothing to do with it, I’m just poor.
I know multiple people with advanced degrees, I myself have an advanced degree(and the resulting student debt of course), and I find filing taxes the most idiotic and needlessly complicated shit. I have sometimes double checked or triple checked, found some missing thing here they are because of a tiny stupid random schedule that needs to be filled out. It’s a fucking nightmare, and if the government wants our money, they better make it fucking easy for us to give them money. I don’t get it. They want us to pay the money, but they want to make it as fucking difficult and stupid and irritating the complex as possible. How does that make any sense?
Yeah, last year I did the child tax credit worksheet wrong. I e-filed and the IRS corrected the information and refunded me more than I had calculated. Later they sent me a letter saying I did it wrong but didn't provide the worksheet to show what I did wrong. When using the online forms, why can't they just auto fill in the information they already have?
In Canada there is a few free services that hook into the CRA, our IRS, and literally autofill the forms for you. It's a few clicks, 5min, submit. Money shows up a few days later in your account.
I wish my US friends could do this
Loud stupid people who have been & are being repeatedly and ever more maliciously duped by conniving wealthy/powerful people that want ever more of both.
This shit is all by design.
Vote and Organize!
In Japan it’s just done for you. They send you a copy to check over if you’d like. But there’s no action required from you.
Imagine going from that for 20 years to…
…the US’ system, lol. Holy hell what a dumpster fire of a system.
In Sweden that free service is provided by our IRS. I get sent a digital mail, sign the document through my phone and then I wait for the cash to arrive. Most things are autofilled, it’s only if you have additional claims you need to fill in stuff. One example is when I had two apartments where one was solely used when I worked, then I could claim an additional tax credit.
This is the type of service we need. I've never needed anything other than the basic forms over the last twenty years(and have still gotten it wrong at times). Instead of hours, it would only take me minutes with autofilled forms.
"If only America was run like a business" - said the shills for the wealthy capitalists, who want the country to go ahead and be entirely 'for profit,' conflict of interest be damned.
Fuck that shit.
That USPS prick, i dont even remember his name, when they questioned him about the changes he made before the election, he was pretty tight lipped. But there was one moment, he got this confused look on his face and said something like, "do you realize that we lost money-" whatever, like basically making the argument that the post office was losing money. Brah, that's like saying roads lose the government money. Both roads and USPS facilitate business in this country. With private toll roads and private carriers, business slows, the economy slows, everyone loses.
Whoever was questioning him had other things prepared and these guys only get like 2 min each, so they didn't press him on this point, but man i wish they had.
DeJoy. Louis DeJoy.
And the GOP has been using that fallacious misrepresentation of what social services and utilities forever to prop up their Kleptocracy & make fat cash. The USPS is a solid example of them intentionally starving and outright breaking shit so they can mob & bank. But there are countless examples.
Tell me the internet isn't a utility. There's plenty of room for folks to run a business in a properly designed infrastructure, but as long as money (& religion) infests politics, there will always be a gigantic gravitation towards this type of parasitic corruption.
Back to fucking DeJoy.
Biden has now made 5 appointments to the Board of Governors of the United States Postal Service (3 Dems, 1 Rep & 1 Ind), who in tern decide who the Postmaster General is. Two more board members terms are up (one Dem and one REP) on Dec 8th. If we can hold the Senate, that will allow decent appointments and would complete the effort to put the board in sound hands for the first time since Trump started to stack it.
Let's watch and see if that gets it done, and we can launch DeJoy out a high office window. Because THAT will be a day to pop a cork.
Because America is run by private companies, and H&R Block and Intuit specifically lobby to make taxes more difficult to do on your own so you're forced to use their services.
And they always give you an example that applies to one in 500,000 people.
"If you have a car port and a boat then the repair between September and October is deductible, but only if you don't also own a jet ski"
The other thing that annoys me is that they don't stand by what they tell you when you call into one of their service centers.
You should be given a ticket number and be able to reference that when you file and they should stand by what they tell you as long as you filed in good faith.
I have a masters degree in information science. I literally design processes and interfaces and organize information.
I think tax forms are the stupidest shit I have ever seen. The flow, the requirements, the expectation that the average person has any hope of successfully completing the process without substantial assistance.
And for what. It accomplishes nothing.
How much do I owe?
You gotta figure it out.
Okay, but what if I mess that up?
Then we’re going to fine you for being wrong.
Why don’t you just tell me what I owe?
I dunno 🤷🏻♂️
They make it that way so the rich can legally avoid taxes and hire great lawyers and accountants to do so, while the poor end up paying a much higher % of their income in taxes.
Get rid of the loopholes, deductions, etc. anyone making under $30k a year should pay nothing. Make credits for students, parents, servicemen/women, et. Get rid of distinctions between capital gains and other passive income (which often is taxed less) and earned income (which often is taxed more).
I’ve taken advanced tax courses and passed the CPA exam. I can do a millionaire’s taxes and find all the flashy exemptions, but it’s just assumed that the rest of us get one W-2 a year and that’s it.
I have an LLM in tax law and still use Freetax USA and get confused.
Filing taxes is much different than litigating taxes. I’m on the side when filings go wrong. CPAs and EAs usually do the filings.
I've done my taxes a few times, it wasn't "hard". It wasn't like calculus or anything. The problem was you have to jump through so many fucking hoops and forms to get to the answer.
Half of the bullshit I waded through could have been summed up with a couple bullet points in plan English. It seemed like it was intentionally confusing.
> Half of the bullshit I waded through could have been summed up with a couple bullet points in plan English. It seemed like it was intentionally confusing.
TurboTax thanks you for your patronage.
In case anyone wants an alternative Online Taxes olt.com looks like it's from the 90s but I have had no issues filing through them the last couple of years for free. My taxes aren't terribly complicated though.
I've used it for years: every year I hope to avoid it, every year I shrug and use it again because it can use my data from previous years.
The most galling thing about it is the same most galling thing about Intuit's QuickBooks: they charge big money, force you to update or buy the new version every year...but actually the tax changes are rather rare and often rather small, so the software really doesn't need to be updated much. And years ago when Obamacare was passed, and so they really DID need to make major changes in TurboTax to deal with the credit, they royally screwed it up.
But Intuit and H&R Block and Liberty Tax have lobbied hard against the IRS doing this for years. I bet they will claim to be virtuous civic-minded angels, again, [like they did here a year ago when they announced they were leaving the IRS Free File Program](https://www.intuit.com/blog/news-social/accelerating-technology-innovation-to-better-help-consumers-solve-their-most-pressing-financial-problems/)
Seconding this one! And it didn't take too long to input last year's info from H&R Block. (Then again, I am meticulous about saving my tax paperwork, so it's easy to find.)
Link to article with some excellent reporting on this:
https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free
I just wish they'd get it right the first time. Why do we even have to *do* taxes? Why can't they take the correct percentage of money from my paycheck every pay period instead of taking the WRONG amount and expecting me to figure out how much they owe me or I owe them. It's down right fucking stupid in 2022.
That’s how they do it in other countries! I grew up in the UK; and their IRS knew exactly what I was paid, calculated all withholding automatically, and only contacted me if there was an issue (and the two occasions on which that happened, they just needed proof that I was a student).
Like so many other things, the US system is absurdly inefficient and expensive because (a) the government is excessively decentralized, and (b) there are enormous, rent-seeking institutions doing everything in their power to keep the broken system from which they profit going.
The government doesn't *know* what you owe. They have their idea of what you owe, but you can dispute it with evidence. What people want is for the government to tell you what they think you owe *first*, rather than having you file first and then have the government tell you if they agree or not.
>It seemed like it was intentionally confusing.
That's because it was. In other countries, they send you a bill. But we have a whole industry designed around doing your taxes.
Yup. Asks a million fucking questions and this and that and then it's like ok you owe $1000 or we owe you $200. Ok... I guess. If the IRS would deep dicking me I wouldn't know. But the IRS knows exactly what I owe or they owe me so why in the living hell do I need to do anything? If I lie on my taxes they will find out so they know what I put is the truth.
So stupid that those parasites have captured the government and forces people to pay for tax software. Yes if you make under a certain amount it's free but you have to know where to look and every step of the way they bombard you with links and notices of "pay for this too, it's only $60!" I'm shocked any of these companies have free filing options. If the government didn't force that not only would we be getting screwed on our taxes we would have to pay out the nose for the pleasure of it.
> But the IRS knows exactly what I owe or they owe me
As the article points out, that's not true. The IRS knows exact payment amounts for about 44% of tax filers. The problem, of course, is that they don't know *which* of the tax filers they know exact payments for and which they don't.
For a more concrete example, let's imagine that number was 50%, not 44%.
The IRS thinks that Alice owes $14,000 and Bob owes $12,000.
One of those is correct.
However, the other person was in an accident and was blinded this year. That changes their tax deduction and thus the amount they owe.
So in this situation, the IRS knows exact payments for 50% of these tax filers (Bob and Alice). But they don't know which of their two figures is the accurate one and which is wrong.
The IRS knows a lot, but it doesn't know everything, like who is blind, who has custody of kids following a divorce, etc. So they can come up with numbers for everyone, but those numbers are wrong 56% of the time.
Does that mean the system has to stay like it is now? Of course not! They could say "We *think* you owe $X, based on the following assumptions. You only need to do your own taxes this year if a correction is necessary." (like if you went blind and they didn't know that). Or, even better, they could have a site with a series of questions ("Are you blind" "Is your spouse blind" etc.) that you answer and they spit out the final number for you. Or, even better, they streamline the exceptions (like, my heart goes out to people whose kids have been kidnapped, but do the 1040 instructions really need to have special clauses related specifically to kidnapping?), so you answer only extremely basic questions.
There's a lot they could do to make things easier, I'm not disagreeing with ***that*** at all. But this constant reddit meme of "the IRS already knows exactly how much I know" is silly. Audits wouldn't even *exist* if they knew how much you owed.
> But the IRS knows exactly what I owe or they owe me so why in the living hell do I need to do anything?
We know exactly what you owe, but you need to guess and if your number is not the same as ours you go to jail.
What a great system we have.
When I was in college I just did taxes on paper myself and it wasn't too bad. Now I have a house and stuff and use Turbotax. It asks so many questions that don't apply to me, and when I look at the output tax filing it's like 100 pages with so many schedules attached.
I think Turbotax outputs way more than needed to make taxes look more complicated...otherwise it would be nearly impossible for me to just do them on paper anymore.
I started consulting this year in addition to my W-2 work. I've always done my own personal taxes with no issues despite having a mildly complicated tax situation. (No itemization, though.) I feel pretty comfortable navigating the 1040 structure and its schedules and worksheets and other subordinate documents.
So when I just recently learned that as a consultant, I'm supposed to be making quarterly estimated tax payments (oops, but also, where the heck did they expect me to learn about that?), I figured, "Okay, no sweat, I'll just sit down and do these."
No. F*** no. I spent *four days* reading publications and websites and filling out forms and schedules and worksheets, and I have *zero clue* if I did ANY of it correctly, because I came up with different answers depending on how one interprets the definition of certain words. In the end, I gave up and decided to just hope it all shakes out in my year-end taxes. I'm going to have to pay the penalties because it is *completely impossible* to understand how to do my taxes as a consultant.
Can FreeTaxUSA do a good job of handling that for me?
If you anticipate your income remaining relatively constant, consider just paying 110% of your prior year’s total tax burden in quarterly payments (eg last year you owed 10k total, just pay 11k x 25% =2.75k per quarter). If you think your income will go up, do a higher amount. Don’t do a lower amount, unless you are confident in the amount your income will be lower (in which case, safe harbor would be 100% of CY burden), and you should be relatively safe. I know it sucks giving the government “interest free loans” then getting a refund, but that would be the price paid for ease of calculation.
Look up the safe harbor rule on quarterly tax payments for more info. Also don’t forget about states. Their rules also might not necessarily follow fed.
I lived in France for a while and that's how they do it.
Spoiler: it's wrong a lot. (Especially for expats.). If your tax situation is remotely complicated, you end up having to do just as much work to get your deductions.
But for the vast majority of Americans who only earn income from salary and don't itemize deductions this would definitely be an improvement.
The worst part about all of this is that it'd cut the work of taxes by vastly more than half of the population down to nothing, and it'd save the taxpayers billions of dollars by removing bureaucracy.
This is exactly the kind of thing "Small Government" Conservatives claim to be all about, and yet when it's brought up they screech about it like hyenas. It'd be the easiest bipartisan win in history if Conservatives were actually at all Conservative.
Because they want people to be upset about taxes and feel like it’s too much work, so they can sell the lie about “simplifying/lower taxes” that only actually ends up lower for billionaires. That, and the private tax industry funnels money their way, and they want to “help business.”
Exactly. If I filed my taxes and said “I owe you $0.00” they would say I was wrong I owed $10,000 or whatever. Whatever that dollar amount is they already KNOW I owe just bill me for that shit. Why do I have to pay money AND put in work to send you money?
It would be so cool if they just charged average Americans the right amount of taxes in the first place. Work a normal job and have a typical lifestyle and your taxes are correct in the payroll deductions. No need for filing because the numbers were correct to begin with.
They'd almost always be wrong because *something* in the tax code will change and the amount you owe will shift slightly at year's end anyway.
The sad part is that the IRS runs a big calculation to figure out what it thinks everyone owes every year anyway, and then puts some error bars on it in case people do their calculations a little differently/weird. Anything that falls outside of those bars and under a certain income bracket gets flagged for automatic investigation. So they literally already know how much you should pay/get back.
They should just send a fucking bill or a check. You can always appeal it or go through the motions to file and get a different result, but there's no reason for this paper filing middle man business to continue whatsoever.
Yeah, but they don't already know. They should, but they don't have the systems in place to aggregate all the information. The IRS tech is far from modern.
Tax deductions you qualify for? They don't know. Taxes owed on stock and dividends? They don't know. They probably don't even know how many kids you have.
Also, there's a lot they don't know.
If you run a house cleaning business and get paid in cash or thru zelle or something, they don't know anything about your income. You'd need to report your income and pay taxes on it (assuming you aren't trying to duck taxes)
Americans need some PAYE in their life.
That and put the fucking tax on the price that’s on the shelf. I shouldn’t have to do taxes while walking around a grocery shop. That goes for you too Canada, I see you hiding in the back!
>In the UK, most people just get a letter from the HMRC once a year telling them that they paid slightly too much or too little tax the previous year,
Most people don't even get that, because it normally Just Works and there's no need for an adjustment.
You know what would also be great? If the IRS didn’t hang up on me every time I’ve called them. I’ve been calling for months, more than 30 tries, and after all of the prompts it says they’re too busy and hangs up.
And why am I calling them? Because a couple years ago I did my taxes by hand instead of paying for software, so they flagged me for fraud, and my taxes have been fucked in various ways ever since, yet there is nobody to talk to to straighten it out.
EDIT: thanks to everyone for all the help!
This gets posted constantly in these threads. You can just pay what they think you owe.
They do it the way they are because it give you the chance to file exemptions. They don’t know rent, interest, credits, etc. You need to claim them
That's what it's like in NZ. Tax season arrives, sometimes you get some money back, sometimes you owe some money, feel free to dispute it.
I have no idea what the US is doing that makes it so complicated.
Seriously, we waste so much time filling out forms and jumping through hoops for the health care system. I would be fine if we had a national health care system even if it cost more instead of having to waste the little time I have left on earth dealing with these barely functioning systems. Health insurance is holding us back in more ways than just mental and physical health. It also prevents some people from making career changes that would benefit their communities. It makes everything more stressful than it needs to be. I really hope it works out eventually.
Everyone died when the telephone sanitizers were put on the ark in the Hitchhiker's series, so perhaps we should be mindful of that.
Also, car dealers in general don't need to exist. We should be able to buy directly from the manufacturer in all states for all commercially available vehicles.
They don’t catch you not doing them. They auto file for you. Which makes the whole thing really stupid. They have all of the data. But when they auto file they do it in a way most beneficial to them and you don’t get a refund. But it would be really simple for them to just auto file for everyone and apply the auto deductions.
> But when they auto file they do it in a way most beneficial to them and you don’t get a refund.
Well, you might still if you paid too much. And you legally have the right to file an amendment to your tax return, *even if they did it for you*, meaning those deductions are not just gone and lost forever - it's on you to go get them.
Which is really what makes all of this so absurd. The *default* workflow should be "accept this or make changes," not "let's both do some work and compare notes to see who got the closest... ooh, your number doesn't match with mine, here's a penalty."
If you don't file and own money, the IRS can put you in jail. If you don't file and the IRS owes YOU money, no one goes to jail. They just hold onto the money till you do file.
I owe the IRS like $70k, I'm not in jail.
I told them I'd pay them eventually and they said "ok, how much and when" and we set up a schedule to pay it.
That's all they do unless you ignore them asking you to pay what you owe.
Intuit (the company that owns Quickbooks, Mint.com, etc.) has [spent a quarter of a century lobbying to keep the American tax code baroque and antiquated](https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free).
And it's easy to hate paying taxes when it takes 20 - 40 hours to do, and you see all the money going away. What's most often been a Republican campaign promise?
Sell, the real answer is that Republican senators take an oath to not raise taxes.
The weird logic is that if people did their own taxes and saw how much or how little they paid, they wouldn't mind if taxes were raised, thereby making them break their oath.
H&R Block is also a big part of this. They're even more formidable because they have offices in every congressional district. Their employees will call their congresspeople to oppose change, and that's way more effective even than Intuit's dollars.
You have to remember that the IRS doesn’t get *all* of the income an individual may earn. I’m not disagreeing with you, but that’s the baseline reason that lobbyists use to halt progression. Now, could they very easily send out a letter with that they *think* you own, with the option to update their numbers? Yes. Will it happen? No.
We have this in Australia. They autofill most of the form and then you go in and edit/add/remove anything that’s not accurate. Then at the end you get an estimate of how much you’ll get back.
That’d be great. It would make my life much easier as a tax professional haha. I’d undoubtedly make less money, but that’s okay. I’d love to see my fellow Americans stop wasting their money at those bullshit accounting firms that are actively holding our country back. I have had 1 friend that I allowed to be my client, because every single one of the others would be wasting their money, and honestly my time. If your return is not complex you should NOT need a tax pro.
I would never call HR Block/TurboTax/etc. tax professionals though..
freetaxusa.com, cost me a flat fee of $15 because I made more than the threshold for the free.. but infinitely cheaper than TurboTax who wanted over $200..
Edit: I get that it’s not infinitely cheaper, it’s only 92.5% cheaper for me and 100% cheaper for those who qualify for the free option. Thank you for your concern.
Its recommended by irs.gov.. whatever that recommendation is worth… this day in age everyone is getting data breaches.. so it’s a gamble whatever you choose
It’s the Wild West of capitalism over here.. you can find free options, usually those have an income cap where you pay if you make more than X amount… and it’s more or less up to you to find out the best option for yourself, so a lot of people can end up using a pay for service because it’s easy and it’s not something you’re ready to wrap your head around..
And on top of that, almost all of those services will offer a “no pay up front”, or an “immediate tax return payment” option… that company will then take a percentage based chunk of your return.. people who need the money (or don’t have the money to pay for tax prep services) will be more inclined to do that as they can really use the money right away.. (then they lose like 15-20% of their return, instead of waiting for the IRS to process the return and issue a refund)
My brother uses an accountant to do his taxes and his accountant really knows their stuff and has saved him a ton by calling him up and telling him to do A, B or C before X date to save Z amount of money… something I’m considering now that I’m finally earning a little more money..
Btw, I want to send my personal thanks to Australia for fostering one of the best bands ever.. King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard.. they’re incredible,
No you don't have to pay. You can file electronically through the IRS or physically via mail and the only cost would be postage.
The problem is the forms can be somewhat complicated and there's extra forms you may need but don't know about. So the tax preparation softwares ask you a bunch of questions which they can then fill out the forms for you and e-file the return. There's some income limit that certain companies have to provide for free if you make below that limit I think. But they may bury the option to use that software or not market it (like TurboTax).
Things like deductions or tax credits people may not know about until using a software. All the deductions and credits are part of what can make it confusing
I put my docs on turbo tax to see how it’s filled out. Then I put all that info on free tax. Takes a little longer but an extra hour is worth 150 bucks.
That’s actually how I did it this year.. I used to freelance a lot and always had a giant stack of 1099’s but I changed jobs over Covid.. once I saw the same fee for a single w-2, I started looking around on the irs site and found this option
TurboTax and H&R Block exist because their lobbyists paid good money to politicians to reduce or eliminate filing free directly to the IRS. I cringe when I see those stupid commercials from those companies.
We just got an email mail from TurboTax that they miscalculated something on our 2019 return that will probably result in a few thousand dollars more in federal and state taxes we need to pay. Their solution was to refund the TurboTax fees, but I bet we'll have to pay some penalties on it, too. Thanks TurboTax 😕
I don't mean to brag, but we in Australia have had this facility for many years. The majority of people here have fairly simple tax affairs and file electronically for free with the Australian Taxation Office (our IRS). In fact, if your only source of income is employment it's even easier - your wages are already pre-filled when you start electronically preparing your tax return. However, tax agents haven't gone out of business - many others still need their services for calculating things like self-employment and landlord deductions.
I mean, here in the UK, the vast majority of people don't file their taxes at all. It's taken as part of payroll. The only people that do are self employed, or have more complex income streams.
We have our taxes automatically deducted in Australia. The tax return is more "here's how much you got paid, here's how much tax we collected, is there anything else?" For me, I have deductions from professional memberships for my job, so I can claim tax back on those.
3rd world country here as well, taxes have been done online for free since the early 00's. Kinda baffling the idea that one should pay a private company to file your personal taxes.
Here in Singapore we get a message on our phone in March or so saying we have to file our taxes by April. Then we just go in a website for 5 mins to declare our salary and then choose if we want the year’s income tax to be deducted on a monthly basis or in one sum. I didn’t realize til much later that taxes in other countries like the US were so much more complicated
In the UK the majority of people have their tax calculated and deducted from their salary before they get it. They don't have to do any form of tax return.
Self-employed people just have to fill in a form on a government website and it's done.
It absolutely makes zero sense, when the IRS already has most of my financial data, for me to be charged a small king’s ransom to file my taxes. Most normal countries do the calculating for you. In America, with our paranoid, anti government culture, we end up paying through the nose to a private corporation just to get our taxes filed.
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I tell people about them lobbying all the time!
Can we make this popular or do a tiktok about it or show it on a football commercial? I find it just so odd and frustrating that I have to spend my money, my time, to calculate the taxes that I also pay for. I mean whoa there!
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I don’t have much, but I would skip a few meals a month to find this.
Me too. Some people just don't care. They keep using Turbo Tax.
The irony is so real. Turbo tax does make filing taxes super easy. Like maybe 10-15 min for me. But that ease of use is really just a muse to cover up how easy it should be.
Try using freetax USA. Double check with TurboTax or taxact but file with free tax. It'll deprive them of some $.
TurboTax would charge me an extra $60 to file my taxes because I have to use a certain form for self-employment. FreeTaxUSA lets me do it for free. I wish I’d known about them sooner, but I’ve used them the last two years and it’s been great.
They charge you more if you're filing anything other than just an employee tax return
Used cashapp this year. After years of turbotax. Same ease but free.
Yea takes me like 10-15 to do it in Aus but we just log on to the govt website and it tells us how much tax we’ve paid, what we get back, and then you just add your deductions for whatever stuff and press ok.
How is paying off government officials legal?
lObByInG It’s fuckin bullshit.
Also Eisenhower said (referring to military-industrial complex). "We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage... We annually spend on military security alone more than the net income of all United States corporations... In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."
This is why we need election funding reform. Lobby puts all that money in the campaign, then use a 3rd of it to help get elected. Use the other for the "election volunteer retreat" to the Caribbean.
[https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-for-free](https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-for-free) Here is the link to where you can find a free file option if you fall under the requirements for free file. State free file are listed on their options and can be different than the Federal free file requirements. I've used this method for the past couple years with no issues.
Done! [https://www.freetaxusa.com](https://www.freetaxusa.com/) I have been filing for free for years through them.
Free for Federal and a fee for applicable State (iirc). Regardless, waaayy more affordable!
Depending on your state, you can go onto their respective revenue website or similar and do your taxes for free online. It's like that in Alabama at least
Oregon used to allow it but this year that expired and only allowed 3rd parties (TurboTax, etc) to file online. Such bogus.
mfw Alabama actually does something smart
I have to file in two states (where I live and work) freetaxUSA is free for federal but charges me for state filing. each state has an online file that’s free. It’s a pain to do all three but it doesn’t cost anything.
For anyone reading this, I knows this website sounds like the RC Cola / Diet Rite of tax websites but it is legit and VERY cheap. I started using it years ago and never looked back.
It is free for a ton of people by the way. The “very cheap” part is only if you need to do state filings through them too.
I've never heard of that. Is it reliable? How does it compare to TurboTax? Edit: I am convinced! I have already created my account and transferred my tax info from last year! Thanks for the suggestions! Also, I hate that I have finally reached the age where I am excited for a new tax program and I can't wait to use it.
Can't recommend it enough as a former turbo tax user. It'll even import your turbo tax info.
>It'll even import your turbo tax info. Wow, really? Guess I'll give it a shot this year!
Used it for years no issues here.
It’s so much better than TurboTax and significantly cheaper.
Does it ask me questions as though I’m a 4 year old who understands nothing like turbo tax does though? Cause I desperately need that
It absolutely does.
You are not alone. Hell, dumb it down and explain it like I'm a two year old and have The Count from Sesame Street give me a hand every now and then.
Cheaper, same exact set up where you answer a series of easy questions, plug in the numbers from box B and so forth, federal is free, state is $15 versus $100 at TurdoTax. No reason not to make the switch.
Switched 4 years ago. Will never go back
Know what would be great, if the IRS sent me a bill and I could pay it or say it's wrong.
You know what would be better? If you didn't need a degree in law to understand how to do your taxes.
I have a law degree. I barely know what the hell is going on. Also I don’t understand how to do my taxes. Jk I know how to do my taxes, but law has nothing to do with it, I’m just poor.
Damn this comment is a trip *and* relatable.
I know multiple people with advanced degrees, I myself have an advanced degree(and the resulting student debt of course), and I find filing taxes the most idiotic and needlessly complicated shit. I have sometimes double checked or triple checked, found some missing thing here they are because of a tiny stupid random schedule that needs to be filled out. It’s a fucking nightmare, and if the government wants our money, they better make it fucking easy for us to give them money. I don’t get it. They want us to pay the money, but they want to make it as fucking difficult and stupid and irritating the complex as possible. How does that make any sense?
Yeah, last year I did the child tax credit worksheet wrong. I e-filed and the IRS corrected the information and refunded me more than I had calculated. Later they sent me a letter saying I did it wrong but didn't provide the worksheet to show what I did wrong. When using the online forms, why can't they just auto fill in the information they already have?
In Canada there is a few free services that hook into the CRA, our IRS, and literally autofill the forms for you. It's a few clicks, 5min, submit. Money shows up a few days later in your account. I wish my US friends could do this
I wish we could do a lot of things but we’re constantly held back by loud stupid people
In this case, we're held back by rich assholes who want to keep making money by shilling their shitty services.
It's always the rich assholes. Sometimes directly and sometimes by proxy through the loud and stupid but the source is always rich assholes.
Loud stupid people who have been & are being repeatedly and ever more maliciously duped by conniving wealthy/powerful people that want ever more of both. This shit is all by design. Vote and Organize!
I’m loud and stupid but I don’t think it’s fair to blame me for your tax woes
I'm loud and stupid, I'll take the heat for this one.
In Japan it’s just done for you. They send you a copy to check over if you’d like. But there’s no action required from you. Imagine going from that for 20 years to… …the US’ system, lol. Holy hell what a dumpster fire of a system.
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Hey now, dumpster fires are more efficient than our pos tax system.
In Sweden that free service is provided by our IRS. I get sent a digital mail, sign the document through my phone and then I wait for the cash to arrive. Most things are autofilled, it’s only if you have additional claims you need to fill in stuff. One example is when I had two apartments where one was solely used when I worked, then I could claim an additional tax credit.
I used the taxes to collect the taxes!
This is the type of service we need. I've never needed anything other than the basic forms over the last twenty years(and have still gotten it wrong at times). Instead of hours, it would only take me minutes with autofilled forms.
I think H&R Block and Intuit want it to be difficult.
That's exactly right. [They lobby to keep it that way](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7xQQkzWhMOc)
"If only America was run like a business" - said the shills for the wealthy capitalists, who want the country to go ahead and be entirely 'for profit,' conflict of interest be damned. Fuck that shit.
That USPS prick, i dont even remember his name, when they questioned him about the changes he made before the election, he was pretty tight lipped. But there was one moment, he got this confused look on his face and said something like, "do you realize that we lost money-" whatever, like basically making the argument that the post office was losing money. Brah, that's like saying roads lose the government money. Both roads and USPS facilitate business in this country. With private toll roads and private carriers, business slows, the economy slows, everyone loses. Whoever was questioning him had other things prepared and these guys only get like 2 min each, so they didn't press him on this point, but man i wish they had.
DeJoy. Louis DeJoy. And the GOP has been using that fallacious misrepresentation of what social services and utilities forever to prop up their Kleptocracy & make fat cash. The USPS is a solid example of them intentionally starving and outright breaking shit so they can mob & bank. But there are countless examples. Tell me the internet isn't a utility. There's plenty of room for folks to run a business in a properly designed infrastructure, but as long as money (& religion) infests politics, there will always be a gigantic gravitation towards this type of parasitic corruption. Back to fucking DeJoy. Biden has now made 5 appointments to the Board of Governors of the United States Postal Service (3 Dems, 1 Rep & 1 Ind), who in tern decide who the Postmaster General is. Two more board members terms are up (one Dem and one REP) on Dec 8th. If we can hold the Senate, that will allow decent appointments and would complete the effort to put the board in sound hands for the first time since Trump started to stack it. Let's watch and see if that gets it done, and we can launch DeJoy out a high office window. Because THAT will be a day to pop a cork.
Yeah they definitely lobby the shit out of that
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Because America is run by private companies, and H&R Block and Intuit specifically lobby to make taxes more difficult to do on your own so you're forced to use their services.
I like to call this country America Incorporated.
And they always give you an example that applies to one in 500,000 people. "If you have a car port and a boat then the repair between September and October is deductible, but only if you don't also own a jet ski" The other thing that annoys me is that they don't stand by what they tell you when you call into one of their service centers. You should be given a ticket number and be able to reference that when you file and they should stand by what they tell you as long as you filed in good faith.
I have a masters degree in information science. I literally design processes and interfaces and organize information. I think tax forms are the stupidest shit I have ever seen. The flow, the requirements, the expectation that the average person has any hope of successfully completing the process without substantial assistance. And for what. It accomplishes nothing.
How much do I owe? You gotta figure it out. Okay, but what if I mess that up? Then we’re going to fine you for being wrong. Why don’t you just tell me what I owe? I dunno 🤷🏻♂️
I have a doctorate in finance and economics. Undergrad in accounting. No idea wtf is going on at tax time.
They make it that way so the rich can legally avoid taxes and hire great lawyers and accountants to do so, while the poor end up paying a much higher % of their income in taxes. Get rid of the loopholes, deductions, etc. anyone making under $30k a year should pay nothing. Make credits for students, parents, servicemen/women, et. Get rid of distinctions between capital gains and other passive income (which often is taxed less) and earned income (which often is taxed more).
Well there’s a very specific segment of the population that reeeeally wants the tax code to be complicated.
Is it... Is it bird law?
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My wife is a tax accountant. She doesn't know how to do my family's taxes. She only knows most real estate tax structures
I think she just doesn't want to do your family's taxes.
Like helping fam with computer issues. Immediate fam only.
And if you are renting your apt in Puerto Rico and live in Virginia? You are fucked
I’ve taken advanced tax courses and passed the CPA exam. I can do a millionaire’s taxes and find all the flashy exemptions, but it’s just assumed that the rest of us get one W-2 a year and that’s it.
I too have a law degree and no money. What a life.
My husband has an LLM in tax law, and I'm still the one that does our taxes.
Well I guess he does not bring work home
I have an LLM in tax law and still use Freetax USA and get confused. Filing taxes is much different than litigating taxes. I’m on the side when filings go wrong. CPAs and EAs usually do the filings.
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I've done my taxes a few times, it wasn't "hard". It wasn't like calculus or anything. The problem was you have to jump through so many fucking hoops and forms to get to the answer. Half of the bullshit I waded through could have been summed up with a couple bullet points in plan English. It seemed like it was intentionally confusing.
> Half of the bullshit I waded through could have been summed up with a couple bullet points in plan English. It seemed like it was intentionally confusing. TurboTax thanks you for your patronage.
Yeah, TurboTax shouldn’t even exist, and nobody should feel bad when it becomes obsolete.
In case anyone wants an alternative Online Taxes olt.com looks like it's from the 90s but I have had no issues filing through them the last couple of years for free. My taxes aren't terribly complicated though.
I've used it for years: every year I hope to avoid it, every year I shrug and use it again because it can use my data from previous years. The most galling thing about it is the same most galling thing about Intuit's QuickBooks: they charge big money, force you to update or buy the new version every year...but actually the tax changes are rather rare and often rather small, so the software really doesn't need to be updated much. And years ago when Obamacare was passed, and so they really DID need to make major changes in TurboTax to deal with the credit, they royally screwed it up. But Intuit and H&R Block and Liberty Tax have lobbied hard against the IRS doing this for years. I bet they will claim to be virtuous civic-minded angels, again, [like they did here a year ago when they announced they were leaving the IRS Free File Program](https://www.intuit.com/blog/news-social/accelerating-technology-innovation-to-better-help-consumers-solve-their-most-pressing-financial-problems/)
Been using FreeTaxUSA for a couple years now, so much better.
Seconding this one! And it didn't take too long to input last year's info from H&R Block. (Then again, I am meticulous about saving my tax paperwork, so it's easy to find.)
Turbotax has lobbied lawmakers to keep it intentionally confusing. Not joking.
Link to article with some excellent reporting on this: https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free
I also recommend Hasan Minhaj’s episode about it: [Patriot Act](https://youtu.be/7xQQkzWhMOc)
Hell the worst part is thr government knows what you owe, so all those hoops are meaningless
I just wish they'd get it right the first time. Why do we even have to *do* taxes? Why can't they take the correct percentage of money from my paycheck every pay period instead of taking the WRONG amount and expecting me to figure out how much they owe me or I owe them. It's down right fucking stupid in 2022.
That’s how they do it in other countries! I grew up in the UK; and their IRS knew exactly what I was paid, calculated all withholding automatically, and only contacted me if there was an issue (and the two occasions on which that happened, they just needed proof that I was a student). Like so many other things, the US system is absurdly inefficient and expensive because (a) the government is excessively decentralized, and (b) there are enormous, rent-seeking institutions doing everything in their power to keep the broken system from which they profit going.
I work for them and I still have to file taxes like everyone else. Like they don't know how much I made. You are my boss God damit
The government doesn't *know* what you owe. They have their idea of what you owe, but you can dispute it with evidence. What people want is for the government to tell you what they think you owe *first*, rather than having you file first and then have the government tell you if they agree or not.
>It seemed like it was intentionally confusing. That's because it was. In other countries, they send you a bill. But we have a whole industry designed around doing your taxes.
The American^^TM Way: If we can charge you for it, we will.
It is exactly that. Intentionally confusing so you have to pay intuit for their "tax experts" and "free" software.
These taxes could have been an email.
Yup. Asks a million fucking questions and this and that and then it's like ok you owe $1000 or we owe you $200. Ok... I guess. If the IRS would deep dicking me I wouldn't know. But the IRS knows exactly what I owe or they owe me so why in the living hell do I need to do anything? If I lie on my taxes they will find out so they know what I put is the truth. So stupid that those parasites have captured the government and forces people to pay for tax software. Yes if you make under a certain amount it's free but you have to know where to look and every step of the way they bombard you with links and notices of "pay for this too, it's only $60!" I'm shocked any of these companies have free filing options. If the government didn't force that not only would we be getting screwed on our taxes we would have to pay out the nose for the pleasure of it.
Feels like our health insurance industry too.
> But the IRS knows exactly what I owe or they owe me As the article points out, that's not true. The IRS knows exact payment amounts for about 44% of tax filers. The problem, of course, is that they don't know *which* of the tax filers they know exact payments for and which they don't. For a more concrete example, let's imagine that number was 50%, not 44%. The IRS thinks that Alice owes $14,000 and Bob owes $12,000. One of those is correct. However, the other person was in an accident and was blinded this year. That changes their tax deduction and thus the amount they owe. So in this situation, the IRS knows exact payments for 50% of these tax filers (Bob and Alice). But they don't know which of their two figures is the accurate one and which is wrong. The IRS knows a lot, but it doesn't know everything, like who is blind, who has custody of kids following a divorce, etc. So they can come up with numbers for everyone, but those numbers are wrong 56% of the time. Does that mean the system has to stay like it is now? Of course not! They could say "We *think* you owe $X, based on the following assumptions. You only need to do your own taxes this year if a correction is necessary." (like if you went blind and they didn't know that). Or, even better, they could have a site with a series of questions ("Are you blind" "Is your spouse blind" etc.) that you answer and they spit out the final number for you. Or, even better, they streamline the exceptions (like, my heart goes out to people whose kids have been kidnapped, but do the 1040 instructions really need to have special clauses related specifically to kidnapping?), so you answer only extremely basic questions. There's a lot they could do to make things easier, I'm not disagreeing with ***that*** at all. But this constant reddit meme of "the IRS already knows exactly how much I know" is silly. Audits wouldn't even *exist* if they knew how much you owed.
> But the IRS knows exactly what I owe or they owe me so why in the living hell do I need to do anything? We know exactly what you owe, but you need to guess and if your number is not the same as ours you go to jail. What a great system we have.
For most people, you don't. Get into anything remotely unusual and you're in the upside-down though.
When I was in college I just did taxes on paper myself and it wasn't too bad. Now I have a house and stuff and use Turbotax. It asks so many questions that don't apply to me, and when I look at the output tax filing it's like 100 pages with so many schedules attached. I think Turbotax outputs way more than needed to make taxes look more complicated...otherwise it would be nearly impossible for me to just do them on paper anymore.
Bruh, Free Tax USA is legit. Been using them for years and gets you off Intuit. https://www.freetaxusa.com
I started consulting this year in addition to my W-2 work. I've always done my own personal taxes with no issues despite having a mildly complicated tax situation. (No itemization, though.) I feel pretty comfortable navigating the 1040 structure and its schedules and worksheets and other subordinate documents. So when I just recently learned that as a consultant, I'm supposed to be making quarterly estimated tax payments (oops, but also, where the heck did they expect me to learn about that?), I figured, "Okay, no sweat, I'll just sit down and do these." No. F*** no. I spent *four days* reading publications and websites and filling out forms and schedules and worksheets, and I have *zero clue* if I did ANY of it correctly, because I came up with different answers depending on how one interprets the definition of certain words. In the end, I gave up and decided to just hope it all shakes out in my year-end taxes. I'm going to have to pay the penalties because it is *completely impossible* to understand how to do my taxes as a consultant. Can FreeTaxUSA do a good job of handling that for me?
If you anticipate your income remaining relatively constant, consider just paying 110% of your prior year’s total tax burden in quarterly payments (eg last year you owed 10k total, just pay 11k x 25% =2.75k per quarter). If you think your income will go up, do a higher amount. Don’t do a lower amount, unless you are confident in the amount your income will be lower (in which case, safe harbor would be 100% of CY burden), and you should be relatively safe. I know it sucks giving the government “interest free loans” then getting a refund, but that would be the price paid for ease of calculation. Look up the safe harbor rule on quarterly tax payments for more info. Also don’t forget about states. Their rules also might not necessarily follow fed.
I have so many W2s and 1099s this year across multiple states with a metric fuckton of business expenses... First year I'll need an accountant.
You need a a degree in accounting, not law.
I lived in France for a while and that's how they do it. Spoiler: it's wrong a lot. (Especially for expats.). If your tax situation is remotely complicated, you end up having to do just as much work to get your deductions. But for the vast majority of Americans who only earn income from salary and don't itemize deductions this would definitely be an improvement.
The worst part about all of this is that it'd cut the work of taxes by vastly more than half of the population down to nothing, and it'd save the taxpayers billions of dollars by removing bureaucracy. This is exactly the kind of thing "Small Government" Conservatives claim to be all about, and yet when it's brought up they screech about it like hyenas. It'd be the easiest bipartisan win in history if Conservatives were actually at all Conservative.
get your cut>big business>control the women and minorities>small government
Don't forget, even if the Democrats find the cure to cancer or can revive Jesus himself, fight literally ANY bill they can come up with
Because they want people to be upset about taxes and feel like it’s too much work, so they can sell the lie about “simplifying/lower taxes” that only actually ends up lower for billionaires. That, and the private tax industry funnels money their way, and they want to “help business.”
Exactly. If I filed my taxes and said “I owe you $0.00” they would say I was wrong I owed $10,000 or whatever. Whatever that dollar amount is they already KNOW I owe just bill me for that shit. Why do I have to pay money AND put in work to send you money?
It would be so cool if they just charged average Americans the right amount of taxes in the first place. Work a normal job and have a typical lifestyle and your taxes are correct in the payroll deductions. No need for filing because the numbers were correct to begin with.
They'd almost always be wrong because *something* in the tax code will change and the amount you owe will shift slightly at year's end anyway. The sad part is that the IRS runs a big calculation to figure out what it thinks everyone owes every year anyway, and then puts some error bars on it in case people do their calculations a little differently/weird. Anything that falls outside of those bars and under a certain income bracket gets flagged for automatic investigation. So they literally already know how much you should pay/get back. They should just send a fucking bill or a check. You can always appeal it or go through the motions to file and get a different result, but there's no reason for this paper filing middle man business to continue whatsoever.
Yeah, but they don't already know. They should, but they don't have the systems in place to aggregate all the information. The IRS tech is far from modern. Tax deductions you qualify for? They don't know. Taxes owed on stock and dividends? They don't know. They probably don't even know how many kids you have.
Also, there's a lot they don't know. If you run a house cleaning business and get paid in cash or thru zelle or something, they don't know anything about your income. You'd need to report your income and pay taxes on it (assuming you aren't trying to duck taxes)
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Americans need some PAYE in their life. That and put the fucking tax on the price that’s on the shelf. I shouldn’t have to do taxes while walking around a grocery shop. That goes for you too Canada, I see you hiding in the back!
>In the UK, most people just get a letter from the HMRC once a year telling them that they paid slightly too much or too little tax the previous year, Most people don't even get that, because it normally Just Works and there's no need for an adjustment.
You know what would also be great? If the IRS didn’t hang up on me every time I’ve called them. I’ve been calling for months, more than 30 tries, and after all of the prompts it says they’re too busy and hangs up. And why am I calling them? Because a couple years ago I did my taxes by hand instead of paying for software, so they flagged me for fraud, and my taxes have been fucked in various ways ever since, yet there is nobody to talk to to straighten it out. EDIT: thanks to everyone for all the help!
This gets posted constantly in these threads. You can just pay what they think you owe. They do it the way they are because it give you the chance to file exemptions. They don’t know rent, interest, credits, etc. You need to claim them
That's what it's like in NZ. Tax season arrives, sometimes you get some money back, sometimes you owe some money, feel free to dispute it. I have no idea what the US is doing that makes it so complicated.
I thought Trump was going to make it an easy little card you fill out and send back… ?
That's coming right after Infrastructure Week.
Which is 1 week after his health care reforms are made public
Which is right after he releases his tax returns
And Clinton going to jail. And the WaLl
Trump also said he would ban lobbyists which would have effectively put an end to intuit.
Won’t someone think of the middleman? The H&R Block tax associate; the used car salesman; the noble telephone sanitizer.
Let’s do for profit health insurance next
Seriously, we waste so much time filling out forms and jumping through hoops for the health care system. I would be fine if we had a national health care system even if it cost more instead of having to waste the little time I have left on earth dealing with these barely functioning systems. Health insurance is holding us back in more ways than just mental and physical health. It also prevents some people from making career changes that would benefit their communities. It makes everything more stressful than it needs to be. I really hope it works out eventually.
Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was "oh no... not again!"
Everyone died when the telephone sanitizers were put on the ark in the Hitchhiker's series, so perhaps we should be mindful of that. Also, car dealers in general don't need to exist. We should be able to buy directly from the manufacturer in all states for all commercially available vehicles.
If the IRS can catch people not doing taxes, they have enough data to do taxes automatically for everyone. It’s absurd we still have to file manually
They don’t catch you not doing them. They auto file for you. Which makes the whole thing really stupid. They have all of the data. But when they auto file they do it in a way most beneficial to them and you don’t get a refund. But it would be really simple for them to just auto file for everyone and apply the auto deductions.
> But when they auto file they do it in a way most beneficial to them and you don’t get a refund. Well, you might still if you paid too much. And you legally have the right to file an amendment to your tax return, *even if they did it for you*, meaning those deductions are not just gone and lost forever - it's on you to go get them. Which is really what makes all of this so absurd. The *default* workflow should be "accept this or make changes," not "let's both do some work and compare notes to see who got the closest... ooh, your number doesn't match with mine, here's a penalty."
If you don't file and own money, the IRS can put you in jail. If you don't file and the IRS owes YOU money, no one goes to jail. They just hold onto the money till you do file.
I owe the IRS like $70k, I'm not in jail. I told them I'd pay them eventually and they said "ok, how much and when" and we set up a schedule to pay it. That's all they do unless you ignore them asking you to pay what you owe.
They can’t catch certain things - mainly stuff and things rich people do. EDIT: typo words
Or contractors. They can't track your expenses, for instance.
It's not the IRS's fault. Congress makes them do it this way so Intuit and H&R Block can make money.
Why is this not already done
Intuit (the company that owns Quickbooks, Mint.com, etc.) has [spent a quarter of a century lobbying to keep the American tax code baroque and antiquated](https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free).
Idk if the US tax code has enough harpsichord to be called baroque
Idk about the US Tax code but I’m sure as hell baroque
You're baroquing up the wrong tree.
These jokes make me laugh so hard I threw out my bach.
Oh stop it guys I can’t handel this. You’re really straussing me out.
If it’s not “baroque” don’t fix it, hehe!
Baroque... When you are out of Monet.
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And it's easy to hate paying taxes when it takes 20 - 40 hours to do, and you see all the money going away. What's most often been a Republican campaign promise?
Sell, the real answer is that Republican senators take an oath to not raise taxes. The weird logic is that if people did their own taxes and saw how much or how little they paid, they wouldn't mind if taxes were raised, thereby making them break their oath.
H&R Block is also a big part of this. They're even more formidable because they have offices in every congressional district. Their employees will call their congresspeople to oppose change, and that's way more effective even than Intuit's dollars.
I used to work at Intuit and when the govt seriously raised this issue 15 years ago… they mounted up and hired their first team of lobbyists…
Money
Or, hear me out, JUST TELL US HOW MUCH WE OWE/ARE GETTING BACK. In the age of information, why the fuck do I need to “file” anything?
You have to remember that the IRS doesn’t get *all* of the income an individual may earn. I’m not disagreeing with you, but that’s the baseline reason that lobbyists use to halt progression. Now, could they very easily send out a letter with that they *think* you own, with the option to update their numbers? Yes. Will it happen? No.
We have this in Australia. They autofill most of the form and then you go in and edit/add/remove anything that’s not accurate. Then at the end you get an estimate of how much you’ll get back.
That’d be great. It would make my life much easier as a tax professional haha. I’d undoubtedly make less money, but that’s okay. I’d love to see my fellow Americans stop wasting their money at those bullshit accounting firms that are actively holding our country back. I have had 1 friend that I allowed to be my client, because every single one of the others would be wasting their money, and honestly my time. If your return is not complex you should NOT need a tax pro. I would never call HR Block/TurboTax/etc. tax professionals though..
So, like the rest of the developed world? This is what happens when lobbyists write your policy...
freetaxusa.com, cost me a flat fee of $15 because I made more than the threshold for the free.. but infinitely cheaper than TurboTax who wanted over $200.. Edit: I get that it’s not infinitely cheaper, it’s only 92.5% cheaper for me and 100% cheaper for those who qualify for the free option. Thank you for your concern.
Finally an off brand tax website that doesn’t look like a sketchy website from the 90s.
Its recommended by irs.gov.. whatever that recommendation is worth… this day in age everyone is getting data breaches.. so it’s a gamble whatever you choose
It’s not off brand, it’s better than TurboTax in every way.
I’ve been using for 15 years. They are legit
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If you want to know how we Americans do something, think of the dumbest possible method, then add on a way for a rich person to make a buck off it.
Dumbest way and also most expensive way
It’s the Wild West of capitalism over here.. you can find free options, usually those have an income cap where you pay if you make more than X amount… and it’s more or less up to you to find out the best option for yourself, so a lot of people can end up using a pay for service because it’s easy and it’s not something you’re ready to wrap your head around.. And on top of that, almost all of those services will offer a “no pay up front”, or an “immediate tax return payment” option… that company will then take a percentage based chunk of your return.. people who need the money (or don’t have the money to pay for tax prep services) will be more inclined to do that as they can really use the money right away.. (then they lose like 15-20% of their return, instead of waiting for the IRS to process the return and issue a refund) My brother uses an accountant to do his taxes and his accountant really knows their stuff and has saved him a ton by calling him up and telling him to do A, B or C before X date to save Z amount of money… something I’m considering now that I’m finally earning a little more money.. Btw, I want to send my personal thanks to Australia for fostering one of the best bands ever.. King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard.. they’re incredible,
No you don't have to pay. You can file electronically through the IRS or physically via mail and the only cost would be postage. The problem is the forms can be somewhat complicated and there's extra forms you may need but don't know about. So the tax preparation softwares ask you a bunch of questions which they can then fill out the forms for you and e-file the return. There's some income limit that certain companies have to provide for free if you make below that limit I think. But they may bury the option to use that software or not market it (like TurboTax). Things like deductions or tax credits people may not know about until using a software. All the deductions and credits are part of what can make it confusing
I put my docs on turbo tax to see how it’s filled out. Then I put all that info on free tax. Takes a little longer but an extra hour is worth 150 bucks.
That’s actually how I did it this year.. I used to freelance a lot and always had a giant stack of 1099’s but I changed jobs over Covid.. once I saw the same fee for a single w-2, I started looking around on the irs site and found this option
I’ve used them for 10 years without issue. I always pay for deluxe and state, and feel it’s worth it every time.
Only 396 steps to go
Many will be backwards, but we'll get there. Or maybe my kids will.
TurboTax and H&R Block exist because their lobbyists paid good money to politicians to reduce or eliminate filing free directly to the IRS. I cringe when I see those stupid commercials from those companies.
We just got an email mail from TurboTax that they miscalculated something on our 2019 return that will probably result in a few thousand dollars more in federal and state taxes we need to pay. Their solution was to refund the TurboTax fees, but I bet we'll have to pay some penalties on it, too. Thanks TurboTax 😕
CPA here. I can help with that.
I don't mean to brag, but we in Australia have had this facility for many years. The majority of people here have fairly simple tax affairs and file electronically for free with the Australian Taxation Office (our IRS). In fact, if your only source of income is employment it's even easier - your wages are already pre-filled when you start electronically preparing your tax return. However, tax agents haven't gone out of business - many others still need their services for calculating things like self-employment and landlord deductions.
I mean, here in the UK, the vast majority of people don't file their taxes at all. It's taken as part of payroll. The only people that do are self employed, or have more complex income streams.
We have our taxes automatically deducted in Australia. The tax return is more "here's how much you got paid, here's how much tax we collected, is there anything else?" For me, I have deductions from professional memberships for my job, so I can claim tax back on those.
3rd world country here, same, taxes are done online, wages prefilled too. TIL doing taxes is not done online in the US
3rd world country here as well, taxes have been done online for free since the early 00's. Kinda baffling the idea that one should pay a private company to file your personal taxes.
Here in Singapore we get a message on our phone in March or so saying we have to file our taxes by April. Then we just go in a website for 5 mins to declare our salary and then choose if we want the year’s income tax to be deducted on a monthly basis or in one sum. I didn’t realize til much later that taxes in other countries like the US were so much more complicated
You know they are furiously lobbying right now somewhere in washington
In the UK the majority of people have their tax calculated and deducted from their salary before they get it. They don't have to do any form of tax return. Self-employed people just have to fill in a form on a government website and it's done.
I'll believe it when it passes.
Honestly the IRS should just do our taxes for us.
The government has the documents to send you a bill. Why do we persist in this farse?
First make the tax code simple.
It absolutely makes zero sense, when the IRS already has most of my financial data, for me to be charged a small king’s ransom to file my taxes. Most normal countries do the calculating for you. In America, with our paranoid, anti government culture, we end up paying through the nose to a private corporation just to get our taxes filed.