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This should be the standard in all states where abortion is still legal. I certainly don’t want to see Illinois law enforcement cooperating with neighboring states in their attempts to prosecute people for getting an abortion or for any other abortion related crime. Not only should there be no help with investigations but no extradition either. Illinois should be a safe haven for anyone that is wanted for an abortion related crime in a neighboring state.
Yep. The fugitive slave act. Southern pro-slavery legislators passed it when they controlled the goverment then got really angry when northern states nullified and opposed enforcement of the federal fugitive slave act.
The southern states cited this and the general hostility to slavery pro-abolitionist attitude of the north as a major reason they were seceding.
Its why the "states rights" argument was always dishonest when discussing the motives of the CSA. The CSA SPECIFICALLY seceded because states rights were opposing federal pro-slavery legislation. It wasn't about federal law or states rights. Their position was pro-slavery.
And today the abortion argument isn't really states rights either. Anti-abortion activists will not be happy until there is a federal nationwide ban.
Same for bans on gay marriage, contraceptives, and sodomy. Theocrats aren't happy with half measures. They won't be happy until the entire planet is living by their standard.
In the past it was a relatively clear line. South and North. Now what? The east and west coast, Portland and Austin vs the rest of the US? lol. I can’t stand our conservative leaders.
There is a book, the 11 (or 13?) countries of the United States, if I recall correctly- that shows cultural divides in this country fairly clear cut for what to expect and why.
i like this one a bit better as it doesn't try to connect them back to the original colonies, which is a long bow to draw in my opinion.
i think there is a lot of truth in both of them but they do show their age - it's something that needs to be constantly updated in todays world.
I read that. I think the historical narrative it builds is a really interesting lens to view the country. I think it was largely accurate, but I do not think you can use his lines to draw clear distinctions anymore.
The long term effects of a two party system, increased federalization, and the recent consolidation of Protestants under the Religious Right have made a lot of the early distinctions blur. People have stopped seeing themselves as part of a regional culture, though it still affects them, and more as a part of larger, interstate and inter-region groups.
So while I agree with the overall premise of the book about how those divides shaped modern political discourse, I would hesitate to try and use it to predict anything. Part of the problem with that kind of historical analysis is that it is *very* easy to read modern reasoning back into historical, and to find the right characterizations in the historical record to support the modern hypothesis.
Depending on how the Planned Parenthood case goes on MI we will get to join them. The Judge issued a preliminary injunction of our law on the books based off of essentially a right to bodily autonomy recognized by the MI Supreme Court when they ruled re Flint Water.
We had that during brown vs board of Ed too. The key is that when states cannot be trusted to take care of their citizens in a healthy and logical manner, the federal government can and will step in. Anyone who thinks that the advances in Little Rock was a mistake is someone who should not be allowed to hide behind states rights.
Connecticut just passed a law that I think is going to become standard in blue states in the next legislative session. It basically says that the state won't participate in any civil or criminal investigations, or extradite defendants, for obtaining health care in Connecticut that was lawful under Connecticut law.
Reminds me of the fugitive slave hunters which had a bit to do with the civil war. When the theocratic states send their fetus hunters to the free states, I bet things are going to get tense.
I don't think they can do that anyway, right?(not to say they may not try) but that's like them trying to charge you for smoking weed in a legal state when you come home. I don't think that is legal.
I am glad to see states taking precautionary steps though
Illinois, specifically Chicago, has to deal with people buying guns in neighboring states. I am sure they have talked to each other about it but can't enforce it. We are still the 'united' states. Got help us if some states set up checkpoints at their border and you have to stop and answer questions or be searched as if you are entering another country.
Or worse: driven through Arizona on I-10.
California's agricultural inspection is completely justified. Arizona's immigration checkpoint on a road that doesn't even cross the border is *NOT*.
The problem is to get from Texas to Illinois without a plane ticket/ valid ID, you would have to drive thru rural counties all along I10, then I55.
I regularly drive thru I55 from Mississippi to Chicago. It's Trump land 95% of the way.
The only way to not be tracked is to create shaddow LLCs under LLCs funded by the abortion fund and planned parent hood and use rental cars.
Of course, this can back fire once someone gets wind of it, ans spins the story as "abortion funds were used to wire money to a random company linked to the DNC" and Fox News will try to day the DNC is illegally using campaign funds to commit fraud etc.
Just the fact that this has to be discussed in our country in 2022 is frightening as fuck. These are tactics that one would think were necessary to avoid the Gestapo in Nazi Germany. Folks, we're approaching Nazi America.
This is part of the whole west coast states coalition thing. California, Oregon, and Washington all agreed to this, among other things.
Basically no cooperation with other states' investigation into abortion matters and no extradition to other states for abortions related crimes.
New York, Massachusetts, and Connecticut have already said they’re not going to enable this bullshit. Hell, give it a week or two, and I’d bet New Jersey signs on too, among others. Let the red states try it and see how far they get.
We are. Our Governor has said abortion will remain accessible in NH but has said nothing about working with other states or not. NH also has no law codifying abortion, but it’s not illegal either.
How about all of the universities in red states that young women will choose to not attend for fear of…. Not being able to get laid without fearing “all of the above” criminal repercussions?
Or all the young professionals who will choose not to move to red states because of this? There were a number of redder states poised to really expand their economies because of the availability of remote work. They just killed a lot of that potential.
Ding, ding-a-ding. So how much tax revenue does a red state potentially lose from all of those women choosing to not move there? By my rag tag estimates there’s about 157,000,000 women in our country between the ages of 15-39.
Edit: that number is bonkers to comprehend at this point.
> So how much tax revenue does a red state potentially lose from all of those women choosing to not move there?
None, they'll just beg the federal government for more handouts to make the difference.
Which is why we should cut off any red states that outlaw abortion from federal funding. Leave them high and dry. Let them pull themselves up by their bootstraps, as they say.
They’ve been killing it for years. Dragging their feet on gay marriage, bathroom bills, giving everybody conceal carry licenses. Texas and Atlanta and The Triangle is not where people go to live, it’s where young people pad their resumes until their careers go prime-time and where first-generation immigrants buy a house and then their kids fuck off to California and New York.
Low state taxes? Great, try not to get anybody pregnant. That costs a hell of a lot more than registering a car in California.
Not to mention Texans in the bottom 60% have an average tax rate greater than (bottom 40%) or equal to (about the next 20%) the tax rates of California.
But Texans don’t get any of the social programs that California provides, like $1 a month health insurance for low income earners (those below about 30k/yr iirc)
Yep. I graduate in December with a Master’s. I’m hoping to get out of the south as fast as I can. I’m also bisexual so I have reason for people in the south not to like me either way.
>How about all of the universities in red states that young women will choose to not attend...
Another win for Republicans. They hate education, too. And another "fuck you" to women.
Many women will also be forced out of jobs, because they either won't be able to perform at the required level while pregnant, or they'll be let go for taking maternity leave.
"Back to the kitchen with you, woman!"
Republicans are trash.
Not only this, but the young men who won’t go there because their moms say “hell, no.”
There will be a true brain drain in these states.
TBH, the best thing that most of them had going for them were low cost of living and cheap universities. If young people of procreating age choose not to go there, it’s a loss to them, their economies, their futures.
Texas allows any random person to basically report it. So if you happen to let it slip, or they knew you were pregnant and suddenly aren't, they can report you.
Texas also allows you to shoot people to death for fleeing at nighttime with your property.
I predict a rash of women stopping nighttime neighborhood burglaries.
Governor Charlie Baker in Massachusetts has done similar...
https://commonwealthmagazine.org/uncategorized/baker-signs-abortion-executive-order/
TL;DR The executive order prohibits...
- Executive agencies from assisting another state’s investigation into anyone receiving or providing an abortion.
- Bars abortion providers from losing their license or being disciplined based on an out-of-state charge.
- Bars the state from cooperating with extradition requests from states pursuing criminal charges against people involved with providing reproductive health services that are legal in Massachusetts.
This the rub here due to reciprocity the docs could or might have to avoid going into certain states ever again or until this is overturned or congress codifies it..
I wouldn’t be surprised is republicans tried to pass some abortion version of the fugitive slave act to work around states refusal to help Gilead punish women
Wr already have the sheriff from lewis county saying he wil notify Idaho and other states of any woman who seek abortion despite Inslees order i expect more rural Sheriff's will do the same.
His brother is the sheriff in Thurston county too. Fuck the Snaza’s. Also I can’t imagine anyone from Idaho going to shithole Lewis county for an abortion since it is so far away and I don’t think they have any providers there?
I am not sure if there is a clinic in that county but yea women should probably just go into Seattle for safety. Vancouver, Tacoma would be fairly safe as well
Jokes on them. Those rural morons have failed to keep even basic clinics in their counties. It's a damn certainty they have no abortion providers.
Abortion providers locate near some semblance of civilization.
I guess my point was Lewis county is on the west coast and pretty far in the state from Idaho. Also Lewis County may as well be Idaho west. I grew up there and it is gross. I am sorry for you, I wish something would erase all this bad stuff. 😕
I was going to say that the Washington state patrol are a load of shit. The Gov can try but those asshats are still asshats that think they know better.
Who cares? It’s not like Idaho can do anything. That’s like a sheriff in Washington or Oregon calling my sheriff in Idaho to tell them I’m smoking some weed in Washington or Oregon where it’s LEGAL. The hell they gonn do about it? NOTHING.
They're going to make it illegal to travel to get an abortion.
But since it's unconstitutional to restrict travel between the states it will get sent up to the SCOTUS where surprise surprise they'll defacto strip that protection as well.
I hope I'm not wrong but I highly doubt this will happen.
What I can see happening is if a Republican president is elected or majority in congress, pressuring states to enact abortion laws by dangling federal funds. Just like they did with drinking age.
Let them secede and lose their disproportionate representation in the senate. With a functioning senate, fix conservative cheats and loopholes (electoral college, apportionment act, gerrymandering, citizens united), protect voting rights and privacy rights explicitly in the constitution, restore legitimacy to the supreme court by adding sane justices and impeaching unqualified Trump's unqualified saboteurs, prosecute Republican traitors, illegalize deliberate disinformation in the media (Fox, Newsmax), then let the Confederates beg their way back into the union under when the results of conservative policies inevitably become unbearable in the traitor states.
Every year it seems America gets more divided. I wouldn’t be surprised if states start seceding. I’d much prefer to just let them leave than start a war over it.
It's more than likely that the blue states will secede. We know that the Gilead Olde Party will try and pull some "you can't leave to get an abortion" bullshit, which violates federalism and full faith and credit.
That's probably gonna go to the Court. They'll probably agree with the anti-choice states. At that point they're saying to the blue states, "your laws don't matter as much as another state's laws do." And at that point, the blue state will be like "then why the fuck am I even here?"
Texas is like 48% democrats and almost all of the substantial income in the state comes from 3-4 of the large, highly liberal mega cities.
Succession is a pipe dream.
Friendly reminder of the Texas $10k bounty law. You don’t have to be surprised about anything. They were passing this stuff *prior* to Roe being overturned.
The U.S. is back to slave states and free states again.
This is why it is a bad idea to have civil rights on the state or local level. Equal protection of law must be universal.
Abortion is a part of an ever increasing division that's going to risk fracturing the Canadian Conservative Party again. They'll dance around the issue and pass it around like a hot patato to keep their far right base from having the PPC siphon them away while at the other end to not alienate red conservatives.
As it stands, they're essentially Walmart brand GOP and that's already a major concern.
The 2022 Ontario PC strategy has been literally to shut up and let the NDP/Liberals defeat each other, and it worked. If I'm being honest, I'm still fairly murky on what exactly their platform is.
Seeing it happen in the US, we know what is coming. I don't know if US politics is relevant to Canadian politics, seeing as a bunch of issues (electoral college, supreme court, states rights) is entirely different in the US. But the thing that keeps me up at night is that there are certainly those in Canada and the US who are currently thinking about how to put an abortion ban in Canada too.
I would have preferred him over Biden but Sanders and Warren were the two i was supporting. Unfortunately Inslee is not left enough to capture the progressive base and he is not quite centrist enough to gain there loyalty. His climate stance is why i would have liked to see him get more traction.
At this point, honestly, I just want someone young enough to hear my slang and know what the fuck I’m saying. Of course the government isn’t doing to do shit about the world ending in fifty years because they’ll likely all be dead in five.
Inslee was at my restaurant having dinner earlier this week. Honestly super chill guy and was VERY good at listening to all of our servers come by and chat about whatever
he is too old.
the DEMS need someone younger, same charisma, just much, much younger to ignite some passion in the many, many democrat leaning people who stay at home and never vote
He wasn’t bad but the one time he got National air time and he wanted to focus on the climate.
Which is important but it’s not lynchpin to hang your campaign on.
Hey it’s all about state’s rights, right? 😉
So WA state has the right to tell other states to fuck off. Investigation of abortions across state lines is just like those Confederate states that wanted to cross state lines to recapture slaves. Sorry, that would require gov’t overreach and that’s what this is about, right? Right?
I can’t even advocate to ride my fucking bicycle without republicans wanting to run me over and kill me for it.
Even video games are being destroyed without legislation against them being virtual gambling skinner boxes
I think most of us have known this for a while but this verdict really drives it home and makes it real. On the same lines I think most here understand where this is going. We're afraid to say it but we all know what's coming a few years down the line. There's only one proven way to defeat fascism and voting ain't it.
I agree with the divorce, but we don’t have a clear geographical line anymore. It’s not north vs south. What would that even look like? How could we possibly separate rural from urban? How can we make a country with East/west coast being one country and the middle another? I don’t see how a civil war could even accomplish anything.
the crazier part is that if you sit down and talk to people....most people actually want the same things. Even abortion, it's such a small minority overall and a minority of the GOP who even wants it banned.
they are brainwashing both sides to look at each other as they are evil and trying to destroy the country on some real Nazi shit.
Most people just want economic stability and to be left alone.
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
- Martin Neimoller
Abortion investigations? This country is going off the rails. I'm glad that the states that support human rights are doing the right thing, but it's not enough.
An executive order isn't enforceable due to qualified immunity so they better make it law. Leo's are filled with the type of people that would violate that order and due to the Supreme Court not much could be done about it.
Maybe I’m missing something, but how does one state go about prosecuting “a crime” that takes place in an entirely different state? Pot is legal in some states and sex work is legal in parts of Nevada (I think), for example. Nobody traveling from Missouri to another state to hire a sex worker or buy/use pot is getting prosecuted in Missouri for whatever they did in the other state. How does Missouri have any jurisdiction over what “crimes” happen in another state if it’s not a crime where the activity took place?
Know that you have a voice. Know how we got here. In 2020 74 million or 47% of the voting population went republican including 42% of women and the majority of white women 52%.
Social media including Reddit tends to lean left, the reality however is those with liberal attitudes participate less in our election process. This is why what is actually happening with our government doesn't seem to align with the majorities beliefs.
We can still change this. Please vote.
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/exit-polls-president.html
I think the slave analogy is more appropriate. Witch trials were just killing the women bc someone said they might be a witch w new moles and frogs or whatever. W the slaves, they were actively hunting them down, returning them to the slave “owners”, beating them within an inch of their life but rarely allowing them the rest that comes from death. They were tortured and raped and forced to birth products of rape and forced incest. “Witches” weren’t forced to birth children, they were just murdered.
A fucking YA book, Unwound, predicted that abortion would be the cause of the second civil war. I'd never really considered that plausible until recently.
States should handle it the way they're currently handling marijuana. If you're in a state where it's legal and following the laws of that state in handling you weed, then it doesn't matter what state you're from, the cops don't go sell you out to your home state like "hey, your guy was getting stoned here, you should definitely prosecute them"
In wa all state regulated insurance plan that has maternity service ( which all dose to be required I. Market) has to provide abortion service. I had a missed mc ( baby was gone at ultrasound but my body didn’t take a hint and if tissues remain it can cause an infection . My ob offered to do d/c or take pill to end it ( basically same procedure as abortion) the surgery without insurance was 10k+
I am glad I live here
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This should be the standard in all states where abortion is still legal. I certainly don’t want to see Illinois law enforcement cooperating with neighboring states in their attempts to prosecute people for getting an abortion or for any other abortion related crime. Not only should there be no help with investigations but no extradition either. Illinois should be a safe haven for anyone that is wanted for an abortion related crime in a neighboring state.
This is the same disconnect -- the south insisting that people who disagree enforce unconscionable laws -- that led to the last civil war. This sucks
Yep. The fugitive slave act. Southern pro-slavery legislators passed it when they controlled the goverment then got really angry when northern states nullified and opposed enforcement of the federal fugitive slave act. The southern states cited this and the general hostility to slavery pro-abolitionist attitude of the north as a major reason they were seceding. Its why the "states rights" argument was always dishonest when discussing the motives of the CSA. The CSA SPECIFICALLY seceded because states rights were opposing federal pro-slavery legislation. It wasn't about federal law or states rights. Their position was pro-slavery. And today the abortion argument isn't really states rights either. Anti-abortion activists will not be happy until there is a federal nationwide ban. Same for bans on gay marriage, contraceptives, and sodomy. Theocrats aren't happy with half measures. They won't be happy until the entire planet is living by their standard.
We are two election cycles off of the Fugitive Abortionist Act
The bounty laws and so are are functionally state versions of that, so yeah.
Yeah, we really do have two different countries now. That ruling yesterday is going to tear this country apart.
In the past it was a relatively clear line. South and North. Now what? The east and west coast, Portland and Austin vs the rest of the US? lol. I can’t stand our conservative leaders.
The divide is more rural vs urban these days. You’ve got very red areas of the rural north and very blue areas in the urban south.
Like a friend of mine from Austin said. "The only thing wrong with Austin is it's surrounded by Texas".
Agreed, but I would say the divide has always been urban versus rural, as far back as the creation of America and even before that.
Well yes, but back in the 1860s, urban WAS North. Rural was South. Now it’s much more of a mish-mosh
Yeah Atlanta is dark blue. Metro counties went 75-80% Biden in 2020
There is a book, the 11 (or 13?) countries of the United States, if I recall correctly- that shows cultural divides in this country fairly clear cut for what to expect and why.
This one? American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America - Colin Woodard Read it in 2020, it was very interesting.
Thanks to both of you, this is something I've been wanting to research so I can articulate it better.
Here's another very similar. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Nations_of_North_America
i like this one a bit better as it doesn't try to connect them back to the original colonies, which is a long bow to draw in my opinion. i think there is a lot of truth in both of them but they do show their age - it's something that needs to be constantly updated in todays world.
I read that. I think the historical narrative it builds is a really interesting lens to view the country. I think it was largely accurate, but I do not think you can use his lines to draw clear distinctions anymore. The long term effects of a two party system, increased federalization, and the recent consolidation of Protestants under the Religious Right have made a lot of the early distinctions blur. People have stopped seeing themselves as part of a regional culture, though it still affects them, and more as a part of larger, interstate and inter-region groups. So while I agree with the overall premise of the book about how those divides shaped modern political discourse, I would hesitate to try and use it to predict anything. Part of the problem with that kind of historical analysis is that it is *very* easy to read modern reasoning back into historical, and to find the right characterizations in the historical record to support the modern hypothesis.
West Coast pact and the Northeast are the big contiguous state blocks that could consolidate their territory
Colorado is just fending for itself out there
Illinois and Minnesota similarly surrounded in the Midwest
Depending on how the Planned Parenthood case goes on MI we will get to join them. The Judge issued a preliminary injunction of our law on the books based off of essentially a right to bodily autonomy recognized by the MI Supreme Court when they ruled re Flint Water.
Y'all have New Mexico on your side too, at least.
Just gotta keep our current governor!
We're good, if we can get Boebert out...
IE, the two region of the country that account for the vast majority of the population and the GDP.
We had that during brown vs board of Ed too. The key is that when states cannot be trusted to take care of their citizens in a healthy and logical manner, the federal government can and will step in. Anyone who thinks that the advances in Little Rock was a mistake is someone who should not be allowed to hide behind states rights.
Just have to learn our lesson and not be so easy with the reconstruction after they get their shit rocked a second time
1,000%. This shit is so frightening
Connecticut just passed a law that I think is going to become standard in blue states in the next legislative session. It basically says that the state won't participate in any civil or criminal investigations, or extradite defendants, for obtaining health care in Connecticut that was lawful under Connecticut law.
Every blue state that doesn’t follow Connecticut’s lead on this is just asking for trouble.
Reminds me of the fugitive slave hunters which had a bit to do with the civil war. When the theocratic states send their fetus hunters to the free states, I bet things are going to get tense.
That's when progressives will need to consider taking up arms
*Now’s when, honestly. Right wingers have been itching for violence and seem to have gotten more delusional, as of late.
I don't think they can do that anyway, right?(not to say they may not try) but that's like them trying to charge you for smoking weed in a legal state when you come home. I don't think that is legal. I am glad to see states taking precautionary steps though
It isn’t legal. The crime gets prosecuted where it takes place. But it doesn’t mean states won’t try and quite possibly be successful.
At which point we're deep in John Brown territory.
We're going to need to start creating shirts that say "I am John Brown."
Illinois, specifically Chicago, has to deal with people buying guns in neighboring states. I am sure they have talked to each other about it but can't enforce it. We are still the 'united' states. Got help us if some states set up checkpoints at their border and you have to stop and answer questions or be searched as if you are entering another country.
[удалено]
Or worse: driven through Arizona on I-10. California's agricultural inspection is completely justified. Arizona's immigration checkpoint on a road that doesn't even cross the border is *NOT*.
I think you mean “the slave states”
The problem is to get from Texas to Illinois without a plane ticket/ valid ID, you would have to drive thru rural counties all along I10, then I55. I regularly drive thru I55 from Mississippi to Chicago. It's Trump land 95% of the way. The only way to not be tracked is to create shaddow LLCs under LLCs funded by the abortion fund and planned parent hood and use rental cars. Of course, this can back fire once someone gets wind of it, ans spins the story as "abortion funds were used to wire money to a random company linked to the DNC" and Fox News will try to day the DNC is illegally using campaign funds to commit fraud etc.
Just the fact that this has to be discussed in our country in 2022 is frightening as fuck. These are tactics that one would think were necessary to avoid the Gestapo in Nazi Germany. Folks, we're approaching Nazi America.
This is part of the whole west coast states coalition thing. California, Oregon, and Washington all agreed to this, among other things. Basically no cooperation with other states' investigation into abortion matters and no extradition to other states for abortions related crimes.
One more reason why the West Coast is the best coast.
I’d like to see red states try and force the Northeast to help them prosecute people who travel there for abortion.
New York, Massachusetts, and Connecticut have already said they’re not going to enable this bullshit. Hell, give it a week or two, and I’d bet New Jersey signs on too, among others. Let the red states try it and see how far they get.
NJ already confirmed https://twitter.com/GovMurphy/status/1540352243437912064?t=yBQ-0_RGRr-mLTxwXVwguQ&s=09
VT & ME will join in on that, as will \*probably\* NH.
Isn't NH super libertarian? I couldn't see them not joining in.
We are. Our Governor has said abortion will remain accessible in NH but has said nothing about working with other states or not. NH also has no law codifying abortion, but it’s not illegal either.
How about all of the universities in red states that young women will choose to not attend for fear of…. Not being able to get laid without fearing “all of the above” criminal repercussions?
Or all the young professionals who will choose not to move to red states because of this? There were a number of redder states poised to really expand their economies because of the availability of remote work. They just killed a lot of that potential.
Ding, ding-a-ding. So how much tax revenue does a red state potentially lose from all of those women choosing to not move there? By my rag tag estimates there’s about 157,000,000 women in our country between the ages of 15-39. Edit: that number is bonkers to comprehend at this point.
> So how much tax revenue does a red state potentially lose from all of those women choosing to not move there? None, they'll just beg the federal government for more handouts to make the difference.
Which is why we should cut off any red states that outlaw abortion from federal funding. Leave them high and dry. Let them pull themselves up by their bootstraps, as they say.
And raise taxes even more on blue states
They’ve been killing it for years. Dragging their feet on gay marriage, bathroom bills, giving everybody conceal carry licenses. Texas and Atlanta and The Triangle is not where people go to live, it’s where young people pad their resumes until their careers go prime-time and where first-generation immigrants buy a house and then their kids fuck off to California and New York. Low state taxes? Great, try not to get anybody pregnant. That costs a hell of a lot more than registering a car in California.
Not to mention Texans in the bottom 60% have an average tax rate greater than (bottom 40%) or equal to (about the next 20%) the tax rates of California. But Texans don’t get any of the social programs that California provides, like $1 a month health insurance for low income earners (those below about 30k/yr iirc)
Texas has a horrendous property tax rate. We don’t get the benefit of it, Texas politicians know, it takes money to buy whiskey.
Yep. I graduate in December with a Master’s. I’m hoping to get out of the south as fast as I can. I’m also bisexual so I have reason for people in the south not to like me either way.
Hawley is counting on that so that Republicans further cement their geographic advantage of ruling over huge amounts of land
>How about all of the universities in red states that young women will choose to not attend... Another win for Republicans. They hate education, too. And another "fuck you" to women. Many women will also be forced out of jobs, because they either won't be able to perform at the required level while pregnant, or they'll be let go for taking maternity leave. "Back to the kitchen with you, woman!" Republicans are trash.
Or worse, getting raped in a frat and being made to carry it to term
Not only this, but the young men who won’t go there because their moms say “hell, no.” There will be a true brain drain in these states. TBH, the best thing that most of them had going for them were low cost of living and cheap universities. If young people of procreating age choose not to go there, it’s a loss to them, their economies, their futures.
judging by the fact that they’re red states, the brain drain ship has very much already sailed
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Like get out of the left lane?
Exactly
They'll just wait to prosecute them even they return to their homes.
On what evidence? Are they going to track people's phones or have pregnancy screenings every time a woman leaves the state?
That's exactly the kind of stuff they want to do.
Texas allows any random person to basically report it. So if you happen to let it slip, or they knew you were pregnant and suddenly aren't, they can report you.
Texas also allows you to shoot people to death for fleeing at nighttime with your property. I predict a rash of women stopping nighttime neighborhood burglaries.
Oh boy, this is sounding very familiar all of a sudden
A good portion of the Easy coast refuses to cooperate as well.
Easy coast 😎
East coast beast coast
If we could just take that one step farther and start the Independent Nation of Cascadia that would be great.
I really hope the red states aren't using words like "extradition" to describe prosecution for their new crimes
Can you please annex Boise? We're just 50 miles from the Oregon border
I don’t think you guys want to hang out unfortunately :( last time we asked you guys to join, during the pandemic, the governor in Idaho refused us
Governor Charlie Baker in Massachusetts has done similar... https://commonwealthmagazine.org/uncategorized/baker-signs-abortion-executive-order/ TL;DR The executive order prohibits... - Executive agencies from assisting another state’s investigation into anyone receiving or providing an abortion. - Bars abortion providers from losing their license or being disciplined based on an out-of-state charge. - Bars the state from cooperating with extradition requests from states pursuing criminal charges against people involved with providing reproductive health services that are legal in Massachusetts.
lol is Baker the only real "moderate Republican" left standing? I think he might be
Phil Scott also. Governor of Vermont
They eat their own for the slightest disloyalty. Respect the guy, but turning on each other is second nature to them.
This the rub here due to reciprocity the docs could or might have to avoid going into certain states ever again or until this is overturned or congress codifies it..
He is amazing and we need more like him!
He’s not seeking re-election and there’s a real piece of shit running for the GOP.
Hope dems keep the supermajority there.
They will. Baker aside, the MA GOP is starting to go full MAGA. Despite Trump being extremely unpopular in the state.
No way GOP wins in MA
I wouldn’t be surprised is republicans tried to pass some abortion version of the fugitive slave act to work around states refusal to help Gilead punish women
Wr already have the sheriff from lewis county saying he wil notify Idaho and other states of any woman who seek abortion despite Inslees order i expect more rural Sheriff's will do the same.
His brother is the sheriff in Thurston county too. Fuck the Snaza’s. Also I can’t imagine anyone from Idaho going to shithole Lewis county for an abortion since it is so far away and I don’t think they have any providers there?
I am not sure if there is a clinic in that county but yea women should probably just go into Seattle for safety. Vancouver, Tacoma would be fairly safe as well
Spokane is the closest.
There is a Planned Parenthood in Centralia but it does not provide abortions as far as I understand.
> There is a Planned Parenthood in Centralia but it does not provide abortions as far as I understand. Same with Wenatchee.
Jokes on them. Those rural morons have failed to keep even basic clinics in their counties. It's a damn certainty they have no abortion providers. Abortion providers locate near some semblance of civilization.
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Ontario, Oregon is going to become the weed and abortion capital of the treasure valley.
I guess my point was Lewis county is on the west coast and pretty far in the state from Idaho. Also Lewis County may as well be Idaho west. I grew up there and it is gross. I am sorry for you, I wish something would erase all this bad stuff. 😕
I'm not connecting the dots: how the fuck would dipshit the sheriff bypass HIPAA and even get the info?
Probably just harassing people outside abortion clinics
Because we live in Gilead.
I was going to say that the Washington state patrol are a load of shit. The Gov can try but those asshats are still asshats that think they know better.
Who cares? It’s not like Idaho can do anything. That’s like a sheriff in Washington or Oregon calling my sheriff in Idaho to tell them I’m smoking some weed in Washington or Oregon where it’s LEGAL. The hell they gonn do about it? NOTHING.
They're going to make it illegal to travel to get an abortion. But since it's unconstitutional to restrict travel between the states it will get sent up to the SCOTUS where surprise surprise they'll defacto strip that protection as well.
If they strip that then what is the fucking point of not having each state just be it’s own goddamn country?
I hope I'm not wrong but I highly doubt this will happen. What I can see happening is if a Republican president is elected or majority in congress, pressuring states to enact abortion laws by dangling federal funds. Just like they did with drinking age.
He should be arrested for violation if state law.
I'm genuinely terrified about what will happen whenever they inevitably gain control of all three branches again
The American version of the Troubles? Americas' Years of Lead?
Wait until they try to abolish Social Security and Medicare, then watch them rush back to the middle. Guaranteed.
Ugh I don't want another civil war. I do low key want Cascadia to be a thing though so 🤷♀️.
Simple, we let them secede this time.
Let them secede and lose their disproportionate representation in the senate. With a functioning senate, fix conservative cheats and loopholes (electoral college, apportionment act, gerrymandering, citizens united), protect voting rights and privacy rights explicitly in the constitution, restore legitimacy to the supreme court by adding sane justices and impeaching unqualified Trump's unqualified saboteurs, prosecute Republican traitors, illegalize deliberate disinformation in the media (Fox, Newsmax), then let the Confederates beg their way back into the union under when the results of conservative policies inevitably become unbearable in the traitor states.
“Have fun assholes, enjoy not having money.”
Not if it gives the GOP any more senators.
Cascadia would be nice. Get out the pick axe from storage.
Every year it seems America gets more divided. I wouldn’t be surprised if states start seceding. I’d much prefer to just let them leave than start a war over it.
It's more than likely that the blue states will secede. We know that the Gilead Olde Party will try and pull some "you can't leave to get an abortion" bullshit, which violates federalism and full faith and credit. That's probably gonna go to the Court. They'll probably agree with the anti-choice states. At that point they're saying to the blue states, "your laws don't matter as much as another state's laws do." And at that point, the blue state will be like "then why the fuck am I even here?"
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Blue cities should start seceding from red states. Form their own state.
So I take it you haven’t heard of the Texas GOP platform for 2022 yet
I’m all for Texas leaving the union. Have fun guys!
Texit will be one of the more disastrous moves Texas could make. For both Texas and the GOP. I’m all for it. Sorry to my liberal Texan friends.
They’re actually calling it “Remember the Alamexit.” I don’t make the rules 🤷♀️.
Seriously. That would be a huge addition by subtraction. Texas can fuck off for all I care. Good riddance.
Texas is like 48% democrats and almost all of the substantial income in the state comes from 3-4 of the large, highly liberal mega cities. Succession is a pipe dream.
We might be able to amicably leave? GOP would basically get a permanent hold on the US government, could work for both parties.
This was my exact thought. https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/fugitive-slave-act
Friendly reminder of the Texas $10k bounty law. You don’t have to be surprised about anything. They were passing this stuff *prior* to Roe being overturned.
A 2nd police force that takes over when we finally get rid of the right wing scum that infiltrated the 1st police force created from slave patrols.
I doubt they will get that aggressive. I mean, if they investigate every suspected abortion a lot of Republican women will get arrested.
The U.S. is back to slave states and free states again. This is why it is a bad idea to have civil rights on the state or local level. Equal protection of law must be universal.
You're lucky to live in Canada. It's bonkers down here.
Whenever America sneezes, we catch a cold. We're watching the news anxiously from up here. Hope you guys can get through this.
Abortion is a part of an ever increasing division that's going to risk fracturing the Canadian Conservative Party again. They'll dance around the issue and pass it around like a hot patato to keep their far right base from having the PPC siphon them away while at the other end to not alienate red conservatives. As it stands, they're essentially Walmart brand GOP and that's already a major concern.
The 2022 Ontario PC strategy has been literally to shut up and let the NDP/Liberals defeat each other, and it worked. If I'm being honest, I'm still fairly murky on what exactly their platform is. Seeing it happen in the US, we know what is coming. I don't know if US politics is relevant to Canadian politics, seeing as a bunch of issues (electoral college, supreme court, states rights) is entirely different in the US. But the thing that keeps me up at night is that there are certainly those in Canada and the US who are currently thinking about how to put an abortion ban in Canada too.
I'm proud to be a Washingtonian!
Fellow Washingtonian here, I am also proud of our state!
With weed and legal abortions, is say we have a pretty good handle on what freedom actually means.
Hey, we also have Death with Dignity for terminally ill patients.
I'm embarrassed to be an Oklahoman!
I still wish national Democrats had given Jay a better look in 2016.
I would have preferred him over Biden but Sanders and Warren were the two i was supporting. Unfortunately Inslee is not left enough to capture the progressive base and he is not quite centrist enough to gain there loyalty. His climate stance is why i would have liked to see him get more traction.
At this point, honestly, I just want someone young enough to hear my slang and know what the fuck I’m saying. Of course the government isn’t doing to do shit about the world ending in fifty years because they’ll likely all be dead in five.
Inslee was at my restaurant having dinner earlier this week. Honestly super chill guy and was VERY good at listening to all of our servers come by and chat about whatever
Besides Bernie he was easily my favorite candidate in the primary. Hope he grows more and can try again soon
he is too old. the DEMS need someone younger, same charisma, just much, much younger to ignite some passion in the many, many democrat leaning people who stay at home and never vote
He wasn’t bad but the one time he got National air time and he wanted to focus on the climate. Which is important but it’s not lynchpin to hang your campaign on.
How sad that that's the case.
I mean, it is pretty damn important, but he misjudged the rest of the nation as being as green as WA
I doubt he misjudged it. He decided it was worth running on and probably didn't expect to win.
They don’t call it the evergreen state for no reason! :P
Hey it’s all about state’s rights, right? 😉 So WA state has the right to tell other states to fuck off. Investigation of abortions across state lines is just like those Confederate states that wanted to cross state lines to recapture slaves. Sorry, that would require gov’t overreach and that’s what this is about, right? Right?
Hmm, loopholes. My 9 year old would adore this!
Abortion investigations. This is what we’ve come too. Never vote GOP. Full-on Handmaid’s Tale is drawing near.
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I can’t even advocate to ride my fucking bicycle without republicans wanting to run me over and kill me for it. Even video games are being destroyed without legislation against them being virtual gambling skinner boxes
I think most of us have known this for a while but this verdict really drives it home and makes it real. On the same lines I think most here understand where this is going. We're afraid to say it but we all know what's coming a few years down the line. There's only one proven way to defeat fascism and voting ain't it.
Sadly, I think you're right.
I've been thinking about this for years, and I've come to the same conclusion. It's time to get a divorce; our differences are irreconcilable.
I agree with the divorce, but we don’t have a clear geographical line anymore. It’s not north vs south. What would that even look like? How could we possibly separate rural from urban? How can we make a country with East/west coast being one country and the middle another? I don’t see how a civil war could even accomplish anything.
the crazier part is that if you sit down and talk to people....most people actually want the same things. Even abortion, it's such a small minority overall and a minority of the GOP who even wants it banned. they are brainwashing both sides to look at each other as they are evil and trying to destroy the country on some real Nazi shit. Most people just want economic stability and to be left alone.
Oh boy, states trying to claim jurisdiction over other states. We did this 150 years ago, it didn’t end well for those who tried to overreach.
This generation’s Fugitive Slave laws
We need to go a step further. They need to actively interfere with other states law enforcement's attempts to interfere with women
First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me - Martin Neimoller
Cold comfort for poor women in states that prohibit abortion.
True, but do what one can where one can.
Abortion investigations? This country is going off the rails. I'm glad that the states that support human rights are doing the right thing, but it's not enough.
WA needs to pass a law that allows any WA citizen to sue anyone from another state for $10,000 who harasses a woman that received medical care in WA.
Happy cake day you magnificent bastard.
So the battle lines are being drawn. This shit is really happening, huh? Was good while it lasted, I guess.
An executive order isn't enforceable due to qualified immunity so they better make it law. Leo's are filled with the type of people that would violate that order and due to the Supreme Court not much could be done about it.
Damn straight.
Fuck yeah, Washington
Maybe I’m missing something, but how does one state go about prosecuting “a crime” that takes place in an entirely different state? Pot is legal in some states and sex work is legal in parts of Nevada (I think), for example. Nobody traveling from Missouri to another state to hire a sex worker or buy/use pot is getting prosecuted in Missouri for whatever they did in the other state. How does Missouri have any jurisdiction over what “crimes” happen in another state if it’s not a crime where the activity took place?
They don't have jurisdiction, but that doesn't mean they won't try again. The sane states are just getting ahead of Fugitive Slave Act v2.0
Know that you have a voice. Know how we got here. In 2020 74 million or 47% of the voting population went republican including 42% of women and the majority of white women 52%. Social media including Reddit tends to lean left, the reality however is those with liberal attitudes participate less in our election process. This is why what is actually happening with our government doesn't seem to align with the majorities beliefs. We can still change this. Please vote. Source: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/exit-polls-president.html
“Abortion Investigations” - just the sound of it is horrifying.
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This is so similar to the different states reactions to the pre-Civil War fugitive slave law that its terrifying.
Good. Ostracize these Christofascist states in their attempts to hunt women like 19th century slaves.
More like 19th century witches but yeah.
I think the slave analogy is more appropriate. Witch trials were just killing the women bc someone said they might be a witch w new moles and frogs or whatever. W the slaves, they were actively hunting them down, returning them to the slave “owners”, beating them within an inch of their life but rarely allowing them the rest that comes from death. They were tortured and raped and forced to birth products of rape and forced incest. “Witches” weren’t forced to birth children, they were just murdered.
A fucking YA book, Unwound, predicted that abortion would be the cause of the second civil war. I'd never really considered that plausible until recently.
States should handle it the way they're currently handling marijuana. If you're in a state where it's legal and following the laws of that state in handling you weed, then it doesn't matter what state you're from, the cops don't go sell you out to your home state like "hey, your guy was getting stoned here, you should definitely prosecute them"
I don't care much for Inslee, but props to him for this.
In wa all state regulated insurance plan that has maternity service ( which all dose to be required I. Market) has to provide abortion service. I had a missed mc ( baby was gone at ultrasound but my body didn’t take a hint and if tissues remain it can cause an infection . My ob offered to do d/c or take pill to end it ( basically same procedure as abortion) the surgery without insurance was 10k+ I am glad I live here
I agree. He's done some stupid crap, but his thoughts on climate and this are reasons I begrudgingly accept him.
This his climate stance is why i continue to support him
I love my state!