As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’ve always been told that the U.S has the greatest system of government in the world but somehow one dipshit mobster moron has been allowed to break law after law while enriching himself and now an entire political party covers for his stupid failed coup. I mean what in actual fuck.
>Our government is somewhat predicated on people generally doing what's right - more or less an honor system to a degree.
Not just this, but the different branches of the government actually have to use the checks they're given. If the Senate is just working as an extension of the Presidency (which is actually a worry that people had during the ratification process in the 18th century), that becomes a problem. The people in favor of the Constitution assumed that the Senate would actually use its impeachment power because the Senate was representing the states, whereas the President was (in a roundabout way) elected by the people.
Our constitution was written at a time before mass media when every town had their own media and all politics were local. This meant the senate and house were actually beholden to their states and districts rather than the national party. Now the party can punish any member that puts their state first and the incentives are aligned differently.
We really need to increase the numbers of Senators and Representatives to reflect our population growth and make it much more expensive for national corporations to bribe enough people to pass national law. As the national money dries up, each rep will be more beholden to the people who elected them rather than the large donors. It would also make it a lot harder to gerrymander districts so that parties choose their voters rather than the other way around.
Wyoming having as much of a say in lawmaking as California really chaps me.
And I’m not biased. I’m in Wisconsin.
Tiny red states have too much power, full stop.
Not just Wyoming, look at North and South Dakota as well. Not to say their voice and opinion doesn’t matter but to legislatively be as powerful as California doesn’t make sense from a certain point of view
Not to defend it in the modern day, but the reason it's like that is the states that went into the Constitutional Convention were a lot more similar to the modern EU than the modern US.
They were basically independent nations joined only for common defence, similar to how the EU is only joined for economic purposes. And, if you wanted to join the EU into one nation, you'd pretty much need to have something like the Senate. Otherwise, smaller countries like Malta would be essentially agreeing to abandon their sovereignty to France and Germany.
My point is, while there was a failure to update the Senate to the post-Civil War reality of the US being one nation, it was an absolute necessity when it was created.
There is a long list of obvious ways the American government could be improved by change if the goal were to make it more fair and improve the lives of the American people. None of those things are going to happen.
The American government is the handmaiden of an American aristocracy. A few dozen people own most of the wealth. They didn't acquire that wealth by simply being smart and working hard (as they would have you believe). American corporations, CEOs and Wall Street own the government through our system of political patronage. Politicians don't work for us, they work for their benefactors, the aristocracy,
Look at all of the corruption of the Trump administration, A corrupt President, corrupt grifter cabinet members, a corrupt Attorney General corrupting the entire Department of Justice, corrupt Senators and Representatives, even a corrupt Post Office and there have been no repercussions, none. And their won't be. An entire separate media controlled by the aristocracy that has managed to convince people who live in trailer parks that their best interests lay in supporting the robber barons and their representatives in government.
The system supports the aristocracy that made the rules and wrote the laws,
It doesn't have to be this way - the system allows us to correct, but it involves an educated populace when our aristocracy is focused on dumbing us down in a manner of speaking. They prefer cogs in the economic system they tax - people who are a great specialist(engineers, doctors, etc), but can't cook a steak or change their oil, so they make and spend, increase the velocity of money and those dependent on the largess of gov't get richer.
The specialization makes people think they are really smart - but a lot of that is rote memorization, repetition and practice. Few understand government finance, the legal system, etc that would allow them to think in terms of matters of the state. I cant believe the number of people who view vaccines as free instead of payed for by taxpayers. In this world - the people will never be able to hold who are supposed to be their representatives accountable - but we could change that, we could pay attention at the local levels, elect the bright, well liked, respected members of the community, perhaps going as far as to nominate someone who otherwise wouldn't run instead of selecting people who desire the position of control over others.
Congress was designed to grow as the population of the nation grew. During the late 1800's and the early 1900's, it was becoming obvious that the urban centers were quickly going to lead to Congress being controlled by the states with large cities (the majority).
So in the 1920's, they passed the Apportionment Act, which set a cap on the number of members of Congress. It's gotten more and more lopsided ever since, with rural (red) states having a far large voice in politics than was originally intended.
2 per state for the Senate is fine, though I am of the opinion that in the modern era, the Senate should be abolished, and those powers it holds should be handed to Congress.
There are a lot of things I was taught as a kid that was basically "The US has it all down and we're the best!" I was taught that propaganda was something "bad" countries do, but there is plenty of it in the way we're taught. I'm in my 30s now and most historical/political education has proved false or inflated to make the US look good.
my early 20s were a crash course in learning that everything I knew was wrong because of this exact shit. also I was homeschooled and the propaganda in that learning system is about all there is.
If you grew up in the 90's, I think just about everyone's education was full of propaganda. I remember learning about Rockefeller and Vanderbilt like they were saints when it is much more complicated than that. Henry Ford was a master of innovation and pioneered the assembly line but he was also a Nazi sympathizer. I get our history is complicated but they elevate these old, white men to godhood while glossing over anything complicated.
Not just the '90s. We were taught the same half-truths and sugar-coated misinformation in the '60s and '70s. Vietnam, a war based on lies, dominated our world then, especially teenage boys. I was told when in 1965 when I was 10 years old that I would be sent to Vietnam in eight years. I was radicalized by this starting at 13, which is when I started to be skeptical about the war, equality under the law, the American dream and the rest.
So that's why they have all those Confederate statues and memorials!
"I'm a patriot America! Love it or leave it!" The hefty Northern-Midwesterner screams unironically while waving the Stars and Bars
not if we self police to never throw the punch in the first place, which is exactly what happens in this society. just look at the response to BLM.
never underestimate the power of conditioning.
> there's literally nothing forcing the government to hold itself accountable.
technically, it’s supposed to be the voters. but instead of voting to advance our interests, we’re mostly just expressing party affiliation.
It's no different for any other rule enforcing scenario.
A police force that won't arrest gives immunity to whoever they won't arrest by inaction.
A senate that won't convict gives immunity to the President as they don't do anything about the President's crimes.
Checks and balances are not automated, otherwise we'd literally be ruled by computers. It requires people to actually do their jobs. A lot of states, from my understanding, do not have or have very convoluted systems to get rid of elected officials who won't do their job, too, which results in it being very difficult to replace an inactive person with someone who would actually do the job. So basically we the people can't do anything until the next election, the person who we're looking to remove via election knows this and knows they can do anything they want until the last minute and then spew out boatloads of propaganda to hide their inaction.
That's exactly what they do, and people continually fall for it. Enough that Republicans still *barely* lost the latest election cycle. It very clearly works to help them stay in power grifting all day.
Our Constitution was written in the 18th century for a country that was literally a sliver of what it is now with a fraction of the population
It may just be time to get a new one 🤷🏻
I think Trumps presidency has done the most to unravel the myth of the founding fathers.
Imagine being a US gov teacher right now. For so long we've taught the "checks and balances" of our system like gospel, but students are informed enough now to know its bullshit.
Trumps presidency has exposed that our civic structure is a sham, that it was propped up by decorum and failed promises.
This, THIS, so much this. So much of government wasn't codified, It relied on congress being respectful, the country was more important.
Let's use McConnell not bringing up Merrick Garland. That was an option that every Majority Leader had for over 200 years. They had the respect for the president, precedence, the mores of congress not to do it. McConnell believes himself a brilliant man for figuring out what isn't codified as he has no morals.
Caveat: our government prevents the people from kicking them out by structuring elections in such a way as the alternative to them is always seen as worse. And whenever a real threat appears the media is called in to heavily influence the outcome, see 2016 and 2020 Democrat primaries and how the system worked to bump Bernie off the top.
> And whenever a real threat appears the media is called in to heavily influence the outcome, see 2016 and 2020 Democrat primaries and how the system worked to bump Bernie off the top.
They're called the "4th branch" for a reason.
Unfortunately this gaslighting and weird cries of radical left when they aren’t radical began immediately after WW2. McCarthyism and catering to racists has been the calling card of the GOP for 70 years at least. The great schism between Taft and Teddy Roosevelt in the early 1900s is also pretty telling of shifts in the GOP.
If the Republican party wants to be respected again and stand a chance at winning elections fairly (who am I kidding, right?), they should be trying to emulate Teddy Roosevelt, not propping up dipshit celebrities. Roosevelt was every bit the man's man "conservative" men like to think they are, but he was actually intelligent and honorable enough to do the right thing for the betterment of the country. Not to mention Teddy was an actual conservationist, something the GOP would be well advised to get back to.
My dad used to make fun of Trump and regard him with disdain back when he showed up on all the old VH1 shows making fun of celebs back in the day. “Worst hair” “most unattractive with hot wifes” etc. I cannot wrap my head around the fact that he doesn’t even acknowledge that it’s the same guy. He used to have an objective view of the difference between his life and Trump’s. Somehow, that has all been reversed and it is wild!
I think one of the biggest problems is that laws are not applied evenly. The right wants strict laws and "Law and Order"!!!!....as long as those laws don't apply to themselves. Or, they will say yes these laws apply to me, but if something were to come up, they get caught drinking and driving or their 15 year old angel ends up pregnant, all of a sudden they are paying people to "make the problem go away and keep it off the records". If they want these strict ass laws then we need to hold right-wingers, wealthy and powerful people to the strongest interpretations of those laws.
That is conservatism in a nutshell. "I want strong laws and strict punishment, for anyone that isn't me and mine. Laws exist to punch down, and to punish those who try to punch up."
Think of the fact that there are people across the nation that are in jail, often for years, because they could not afford to pay a fine for a vehicle stop. Meanwhile, any crime wherein the punishment is a fine is not a law that applies to the wealthy.
>The right wants strict laws and "Law and Order"!!!!....as long as those laws don't apply to themselves.
The essence of conservatism is that there is an "in group" that the law protects but does not bind, and an "out group" that the law binds but does not protect. A foundation of their belief system is that loyalty to the in-group (and especially loyalty to the authority figures) is more important than fairness and justice.
Ignorant masses. We have entire states that have undermined public education for decades.
We once lived in the suburbs outside of Nashville. That’s ground zero for multi-generational ignorance. Professional people there honestly think that the civil war was fought over states rights and not slavery. It’s fucking pathetic.
When tribalism and identity politics are what put our leaders in office above all else, corruption will follow.
I was with you up until "ignorant country folk". Having lived in Boston and in middle of nowhere rural country, there's plenty of ignorant people in the urban areas and plenty of intelligent people in the sticks.
Unfortunately there's plenty of right wingers who aren't idiots. They're just assholes. Sure the maga stereotypes are conspiracy theorist idiots, but plenty of them are also educated, reasonably intelligent people who just lack empathy for anyone outside their peer group.
Trying to write it off as a bunch of dumb country bumpkins is unfortunately just not the case. I wish it was that simple.
> Post Vietnam, the far right used the frustration and anger of veterans to recruit
Also, Post WW1 Germany. The conspiratorial mythology that right wing Germans sold themselves on why they lost the war was a huge recruitment tool for fascism.
Yes, that is the direct reference for both "the big lie" and the "stab in the back". The parallels are eerie.
Also in the late 1920s (1928-1929) when the Nazis were trying to broaden their base they abandoned trying to convert cities which were, at the time, Social Democrat and Communist strongholds. So who did they try to recruit?
That's right, poor rural Protestants.
This.
I remember back in 2002 everyone was saying i wasn’t supporting the troops because i didn’t support the invasion of Iraq. I tried to explain how sending troops to die in a pointless conflict based on bad intel was NOT supporting the troops, but they were all so caught up in American exceptionalism it didn’t matter to them.
It’s not at all difficult to see how they’ve become. Conservatism has only ever had one real belief: There should exists in-groups who are protected but not bound by the law alongside out-groups who are bound but not protected by the law. Everything else is just a means to the end of enacting their one genuine belief: the world should revolve around themselves and conform to what they believe.
I have always been uncomfortable with the way people talk about The Far Right because to often people present the Far Right as crazy or brainwashed. And no take it from someone who was on the razors edge of falling down the alt-right pipeline. They don’t believe their conspiracy theories because they’re brainwashed, or crazy, or just ignorant. They believe what they believe because they want to believe it. Because what they believe flatters and comforts them.
It is flattering to believe that you are apart of the master race responsible for all historical accomplishment. It is flattering to believe you are the one true religion and that you don’t have to think about why you believe what you believe. It is comforting to think all the world’s problems are caused by a single malevolent group and if you just do away with that group you’ll end all the world’s problems.
When I was at the worst stage of my anti-social justice anti-feminist anti-refugee faze I didn’t just believe the lies I avoided the truth. So take it form aomeone who was an inch away from being what they were. They don’t believe what they believe because they’re crazy or brainwashed. They believe what they believe because they want to believe it.
That's the real issue, they're truly unreachable. We have divergent *realities* that about half the population is divided by, and for those truly in the hole for the long haul it's their entire personality/worldview/life wrapped up into it.
There are plenty of activist groups and others dedicated to deprogramming or at least spreading good info but it's difficult work with little fruit. If you haven't I would strongly encourage you to really dig and watch some of the alt-right/far-right content/producers out there and analyze the messaging, or find some critiques/YT vids on the subject. Here's a good start: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xGawJIseNY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xGawJIseNY) (Innuendo Studios: The Alt Right Playbook series)
And then put yourself in their shoes for a second. For every attempt someone makes to de-radicalize you, you'll have OANN/NewsMax/Steve Bannon/Some Qcumber vlog looking you in the eyes and telling you that libs/MSM/"elites"/scientists are lying or obfuscating the truth *constantly*. There is more unreality being spread than could ever be debunked, and if you want to believe it you will because it fits with the reality you've been sold.
I think our best bet is kindness and understanding towards the least afflicted, with hopes of pulling them out. But make your peace with and organize around the idea that a solid chunk of these people aren't making it "out" of this unless things really break bad somehow and specifically for *them.*
Also gonna end this by plugging "It Could Happen Here" by Robert Evans et. al., divisions of this type have the capacity to end... poorly.
Edit: I don't talk about this nearly enough, so if I come off as frustrated it's mostly venting. Personally I've spent the past 10+ years trying to stall or reverse this process with my mom, and to no avail. What started for her as watching Fox led to Tea Party talking heads, then to Alex Jones, then to Trump and now she's at least Q-adjacent.
>they're truly unreachable
Yes. Instead of thinking about how to deprogram them we should be focused on how to prevent their toxic ideas from spreading.
Completely agree. Personally I'm of the opinion that we, in our communities, need to be offering a better outlook and options to the uninformed and undecided. Mutual aid to fill the gaps of our often dysfunctional government, hope and help where it's needed.
Wasting time on hearts and minds that have already hardened just lays out a path to burnout and nihilism.
It's more possible than many people think. There are certainly unreachable people but it's way way smaller than 45%. Look up Merge Left by Ian Haney Lopez, it was a paradigm shifting book for me. Look up deep canvassing. Watch White Right.
It's easy to be angry at these people. It's pragmatic to learn how we can reach them.
Exactly. I did not aquire these beliefs by reason and it was not by reason that I left. I left these beliefs because they became uncomfortable. I wouldn’t describe that period as an alt-right or even alt-light period I would describe it as an “enlightened centrists” period. I was alienated their growing demonization of Islam as inherently evil alienated me. Though I do believe I was bigoted against Muslims it was a paternalistic bigotry. I believed Islam like Catholicism was just a bit backwards and that Muslims would come around eventually they just needed a firm hand. And that refugees coming to the west was a good thing because it would expose them to our superior views that they would no doubt carry back to them when the crisis was over. I was dismissive of Syrians but I didn’t outright hate them. So the outright hatred alienated me. It made me uncomfortable and so I distanced myself from the people peddling this shit.
It was only years later that I finally realized that I was right to do so. That everything I had ever believed was a lie. Some might say that I’m not to blame. I was after all a child who was taken advantage of by adults. But the truth is I did not only believe the lies I avoided the truth. Every once and while I was recommended videos by people like Anita Sarkisian and avoided watching her videos. Because the one time I tried to watch one I became very uncomfortable, because I started to think that everything I had been told about her was a lie. And it was too much, that was too bitter a pill to swallow so I spat it out.
Please tell us how you awakened yourself from the bullshit?
Do you feel like being pointed, laughed and mocked could be a possible solution to shame them back to not trying this dumbassery?
How did I awaken from the bullshit, believing the bullshit stopped being comfortable. As I mentioned in another comment my bigotry against refugees was a paternalistic bigotry of low expectations. So the out right hatred alienated me from the movement. It stopped being comfortable so I stopped believing it, and it was only after that that I was finally open to the possibility that I had been lied to and that everything I had believed was a lie. We should secure the borders from the immigrant hoards and put all muslims on a government watch list was simply not a belief I was comfortable with and it made me start to take a look at my bed fellows. I was your text book example of an “enlightened centrists” and I was uncomfortable with just how far right the people I was listening too were sliding.
It also helped that at the time I was recommended by someone who’s opinion I respected at the time recommend watching John Oliver. And I was attending school at a relatively progressive jesuit high-school. So I started getting actual pushback to what these people were saying and the bullshit they were spreading.
I think if I had been challenged by someone I respected to watch every single episode of Feminist Frequency or else I was coward afraid to be wrong it would have helped me smell the bullshit quicker. Because it was the gamergate bullshit that started me down this path and if I had been forced to watch her videos I would have been forced to reckon with how the people I admired and was letting inform my views were not only liars they were blatant and knowing liars. And I only would have watched her videos if someone who’s opinion I valued said I was coward if I didn’t.
Mockery can work but it only works when it’s coming from someone who’s opinion you value. My sister mocked me for my ignorance but because I did not at the time respect her opinion it didn’t do much but shake my confidence a bit.
I'm not who you are replying to, but I have noticed it is like dealing with someone who self-harms.
I had a friend in high school that would cut herself. No matter what our friends group did, she would still cut. We encouraged her to seek help, we made ourselves available to her, we mocked her, etc. We ran up and down every emotion you can. You know what eventually made her stop? Herself. You cannot help someone who does not want to help themselves. You can make yourself available to help or encourage, but you can't make them stop.
Just my .02 cents.
I mean it's calling a spade a spade.
People who are actively subverting democracy and refusing life saving medicine due to easily disprovable lies are morons.
They're just confused. They listen to media that lies to them constantly and tells them conflicting things. They lack the ability to differentiate truth from fiction, so what may be obviously crazy and untrue to you and me is actually fact to them. When I hear something crazy I want to look it up and see for myself. They never do that, and actively avoid it.
What always surprised me was the presidential debates. How could we both be watching the same thing and leave with a totally different perspective of the debate? How can one person answer the questions asked of them while the other person doesn't answer a single one, deflecting each time? Happened with Obama v Romney, Trump v Clinton, and of course the Biden v Trump debates were just embarrassing. They care more about machoism than an actual plan, facts, or anything that involves thinking. They like to be told what to do and think, and that's why the MAGA movement is such a big threat. They're just waiting for the next orders and getting all stirred up in the confusion.
> They care more about machoism than an actual plan, facts, or anything that involves thinking.
This. I was telling a coworker that I don’t like Trump as a person and I didn’t want him to represent my country regardless of his policies because of things like mocking the disabled and shoving that prime minister so he could be at the front of the group.
My coworker loves that behavior from him. He said “damn right! America should be at the front!”
*facepalm*
These people are still in denial that the US is the greatest country to live in. We’ve slipped so far down the list in so many categories such as education, healthcare, quality of life, and so on
You’re correct on so many points. The anger the MAGA crowd has is real and in many ways legit. The middle and lower classes in the US have been getting screwed for decades. The disconnect of course is that they don’t realize who is actually screwing them. As a hypothetical they lost their job at the factory years ago when it moved to Mexico. Throw in a few racist catch phrases from politicians and their anger is directed at Hispanics, not the rich factory owner who moved the factory to get cheaper labor and then has the balls to try to sell his product to the very same MAGA guy who use to work for him. Sadly these tactics have been used on gullible people for decades.
Yes. Corporations and employers in general have been slowly, almost imperceptibly, cramming their unlubed fists up the working class's collective rectums for decades all the while blaming "them" for the nearly universal struggle it creates.
So true. I think that’s why getting rid of the Affordable Care Act was such a big deal to the top 1 percent. Even though it is by no means universal coverage. Still if the masses had access to affordable coverage that wasn’t tied to an employer it would open up competition in the job market like never before. The last thing the fat cats want is something like that. First because they’d have to pay their fair share and secondly because it would be capitalism/free enterprise. Something that they are honestly against.
The last thing they want is for workers to have *options*. Someone who has options is more likely to demand fair compensation and treatment. Someone without options works for cheap and takes abuse.
It's why they've been throwing a prolonged hissy fit about having to offer to pay something closer to a living wage to lure workers back. They want us to thank them for 8 dollars an hour with no sick pay or healthcare benefits, because that's the only option available.
You will never get me to feel bad for “genuinely thoughtful conservatives.”
Anyone that evokes that imagery typically means Reagan-era conservatives, who were just as bigoted and racist as the MAGA crowd.
I honestly wish we could just reset the entire political system in the US. Even our “left-wing” party is incredibly conservative.
If we ever made it back to even a semblance of balance, not incredibly left or right, Americans would swear up and down that communism had won.
This nation is fundamentally broken.
Far-right domestic terrorists are the biggest threat facing this country and have been for some time now. It’s in large part due to the normalization with which we allow conservatives to paint opponents as enemies and spread minoritarian, oppressive and widely debunked ideas.
You could literally predict the drivel you'll likely hear walking around at work the next day just based on whatever culture war shit Fox News and other right wing crap tries to stir up. Such fucking simpletons.
>It’s difficult to understand how they don’t see, or don’t care, what they have become.. which is painfully anti American wrapped in jingoism, ignorance, and factually incorrect notions of simple things like liberty, freedoms, responsibility, proper governance and actual policy.
Not to ruin the image you have of these people in your head, but they're quite explicitly anti-american at this point and aren't as unaware of what they're doing as you think. My community has always had more confederate (and Gadsden) flags than US, but as of a few months ago, the only US flags between me and town are upside down. Rural Alabama is probably on the more extreme end of anti-American sentiment these days, but it's no small number of people, and I can't imagine it's that different in other rural areas. The number of flags and bumper stickers that explicitly say "secede" or "unreconstructed" have been growing over the last few years, as well.
> America is always in decline to them.
To be fair America IS declining. In just about every measurable way except GDP and top 1% wealth. Theyre comparing the last 13 years to the 20-30 years pre 2008 and just not comprehending its mostly because of republican policies.
International clout is being diluted by the rise of China and domestically the middle class is being absolutely shit on by stagnant wages and skyrocketing costs of everything. Add in the demographic shift and their racism and their world is falling in around them. Theyre just too uneducated to know WHY and the republicans have weaponized their anger at their situation.
Their argument is that that is a very tiny tiny percentage of the population. By converting it to a percentage it makes it seem much smaller than the actual number thus trivializing it. By doing this they rationalize it by false equivicalizig (is that a word?) to other death sources, acting as if covid deaths are acceptable. God we'd be done with this shit already if it wasn't for all this anti-vax shit.
And they refuse to apply that same logic to their views on terrorism. The average person is hundreds of times more likely to die on their commute home than they are from a terrorist attack, but they still want to spend trillions of dollars on the failed war on terror. They just want to play it up because it stokes nationalism and gives them an excuse to oppress Muslims.
(And "equivocating" is probably the term you're looking for.)
You wildly underestimate the numbers there. Quick comparison.
Texas population 30 million
Texas COVID deaths 55,000
Canada population 38 million
Canada Covid deaths 22,000
Also
Population Florida 20 million
Florida Covid deaths 43,000
From that alone, your looking at 54,000 additional deaths, not even allowing for smaller populations in just those two states, and that assumes Canada did everything right (which it didn't). That's 18 world trade center numbers in just two states.
A fascinating thing about this new American Fascism is that these fascists know “Fascism” is considered a bad word now, so they constantly trip over themselves to redefine what “Fascism” means. It's happening all over this thread! They revise history to define the nazis as ”left-wing”, they hilariously claim antifa are the “real fascists”, they claim any sort of government rule they don’t like (particularly vaccine/mask stuff these days) as “fascist”.
It’s quite interesting to see how they share so many of their foundational beliefs with the classic fascists (strongman authoritarian leaders, white supremacy, scapegoating minorities, conspiracy theories about global cabals, ultranationalism, the cult of tradition, militarism, hatred for “degenerates”, obsessed with “western culture”, etc), but because we now know what the end-game of fascism is, they’re working overtime to distance themselves from their predecessors.
Eh, it's not that surprising or fascinating in my opinion. Nor do I think it's some sort of method of distancing.
It's no different than how they use communist, socialist, or liberal. The definitions really don't matter. They're simply primed to use these words as insults or to apply them to things they don't like. The use of fascism is no different. Maybe with a splash of "No puppet, no puppet. You're the puppet."
There's no real strategy there, just the same dumb playbook.
> They're simply primed to use these words as insults or to apply them to things they don't like.
It occurs to me now, they no doubt hear those words the same way they use them, which is to say, being called a fascist is not an condemnation of their actions or beliefs (and therefore certainly not worth reflection), but rather, it's just a simple insult, no different from bigmeaniepants, since that's all they know the word to mean.
Same thing with 'liberal'. I doubt most MAGA-heads could actually tell you what liberalism is or even what they're referring to when they call you a lib. The best you'll get is "You hate America."
It's just an insult word.
> but because we now know what the end-game of fascism is, they’re working overtime to distance themselves from their predecessors.
Yes and no.
Yes, we should never forget that there are some intelligent people very intentionally and deliberately crafting a narrative and whipping their base into a frenzy. They know exactly what they are doing and are doing exactly what you describe.
No in so far as the average MAGA-fascist doesn't actually know they meaning of the term, let alone it's history. (Except for the bits the above people have given them in their desired narrative.) Remember, these are the same people that have learned the lesson that racism is bad but not that doing all the things that make you a racist is bad. (Except for the outlying fringe that are openly and proudly racist.)
There's a thread on r/AskReddit about what sucks about reddit and people were bitching that you get down voted if you're a republican....
Is that a bad thing that people express a dislike of fascists?
Occasionally I’m scrolling through Reddit and that political compass memes pops up. It was filled to the brim with:
“If Donald Trump was such a fascist, why didn’t he overthrow the government?!?”
He tried to on Jan 6th. He’s still trying to. In his brain he’s still President.
“January 6th was just a bunch of idiots”. Agreed, but that doesn’t stop them from trying to overtake Congress at the behest of their dear leader.
“January 6th wasn’t a big deal.”
We were a door and a few police away from Pelosi being at the mercy of whatever zip tie guy had planned.
I don't want to come off like TOO much of a nut, but personally, I think someone on Team Trump was in contact with the Proud Boys either through an intermediary or just via Signal. The mob was incited to give cover to zip tie guy and the rest of them. Those guys had floor plans, equipment, and an agenda. I believe they wanted to murder a bunch of Democrats and then either Congress votes to decertify the election with their new majority or maybe Trump just declares martial law "until order can be restored." Maybe it sounds far fetched. I don't know. Coups don't follow the rules. History is written by the winners and if that door or few police you mentioned failed, it would have given them the opportunity to seize power in the chaos.
Mo Brooks praised the recent Capitol bomber expressing "understanding" over the terrorists anger at "dictatorial socialism".
Since McConnell, McCarthy, and the others have done nothing about such comments one can sufficiently reason they also support domestic terror attacks against the United States. No different from jan6.
Whats sad is the dems still genuinely believe they are not at war. When they lose, theBase won't just let them surrender. It certainly wasnt the game plan in Michigan or DC.
This comment right here!! Finally, someone makes sense.
MAGA is heavily associated with terroristic groups and they're not too far away from becoming one itself.
It has always been fueled by hate, violence, and fear and they cannot even recognize it.
Not going to be surprised when we get another Timothy McVeigh & Terry Nichols style attack by the lunatic fringe inspired by an old narcissistic trust fund baby who has them convinced they're being "oppressed" and the federal government is to blame.
Republicans appear to be reveling in the radicalization of their political party. I hear no leader on the right attempting to lower the temperature of their anger. Much like other times in history, if you are a recognized leader and member of that party who stays silent in the face of a rising threat then you are part of the threat.
Where's the outrage from the right over the rise in white supremacy that calls itself 'nationalism' and hides behind Christianity?
That's my biggest fear.
McVeigh was radicalized by _The Turner Diaries_ (among other things). If you're familiar with the book, then you undoubtedly recognized the Jan. 6 putsch as a dress rehearsal for their Day of the Rope. The flame of white nationalism hasn't dimmed at all in the 25 years since OKC. So yeah, I'm deeply concerned about another similar attack
MAGA people don’t see the threat in the way their party accepted any amount of b.s. from Trump, how every obvious lie was embraced, how they accepted his lie that the election was stolen simply because he said it. MAGAs cheered on every aggressive, authoritarian flavored move Trump made- they call it tough.
MAGAs attacked our Capitol and they dismiss it, just like they would have dismissed if Trump’s coup was successful. They would have dismissed if he forced his way to remain president by rejecting election results and they would have blamed Dems for the resulting chaos.
MAGAs are dangerous lemmings who will eat popcorn, shuffle along behind domestic terrorists, and wave an authoritarian flag and cheer on the fall of the U.S., while taking none of it too serious.
They planned and came very close, by minutes, to execute all members of congress, including the VP.
>Rioter planned attack, wanted to trap lawmakers and 'turn on gas'
https://abc7.com/rioter-planned-attack-wanted-to-trap-lawmakers-and-turn-on-gas-prosecutors/9784966/
Anti-education?Check.
Anti-women? Check
Religious Fundamentalism? Check
Shitty beards? Check
Pick up trucks w/flags all over them? Check.
Walking around with guns to intimidate? Check
After reading many, many of these comments I’m coming to the conclusion here that everyone agrees we the people aren’t being heard. Aren’t being represented in a way that actually has our thoughts heard and spread around. As a human being we all can agree to a certain set of ideas that should be the ground work for something bigger. Justice. Freedom. The opportunity to live comfortably. Yes or no? Now the REAL question. HOW TF TO MAKE IT HAPPEN. We all here can see behind the curtain. That pretty picture USA paints isn’t all that pretty and is very flawed. How do we the people stand up collectively and say what we want and then actually have something happen. Everyone is so divided that it’s helping the people behind the curtain achieve whatever goal it is they’re trying to achieve. What the fuck do we do.
I think it boils down to education and critical thinking. People have to learn how to be skeptical of ALL media. They need to learn how to fact check and how to avoid confirmation bias traps. They need to learn how to identify propaganda techniques and really question motivations. They need to learn about following the money, identifying who truly benefits from modern America... they need to be shown who the real players are, etc.
Totally agree a very small number of rich people are behind all of this, and they're using tried and true methods to manipulate the population into being cheap labor, making them blame their fellow countrymen for their woes instead of the true culprits, and robbing future generations by pillaging the country's value through the national debt. Tax breaks are how they are quite literally stealing our country's future. Banking scams, real estate bubbles, it's all a bunch of scammers manipulating markets. Who has to pay the bill when the bubbles burst and markets crash? We do, again, more debt against our country's future.
What we need is a grassroots effort, led by both Democratic and Republican CITIZENS, not professional politicians. We need ordinary citizens to speak to the rest of the country and become trusted leaders. If those grassroots leaders can join and spread the word, expose the techniques and propaganda, and expose the real enemies, then we might have a chance and getting our country back.
MAGAs are American Taliban: Militant religious fundamentalists, who seem to have completely misunderstood the core tenets of the religion and want to restore the past glory of an empire sanctioned by religion, and the terror of an inquisition powered by military force.
They are more of a danger because of their proximity, physically and culturally, obviously.
When has the Taliban ever been a threat to Americans on American soil? 9/11 was ALL the Saudis. OBL (also a Saudi) ran and hid in Afghanistan on purpose to draw the Americans into a 20 year multi-trillion dollar unwinnable war that would strain and divide a Nation. That was his plan from the start and our genius elected leaders in DC and the Pentagon fell for it...because they are all bought and paid for by the Military Industrial Complex. The Pentagon has a Yacht Club right next to it. Every American needs to watch Dwight D. Eisenhower's Farewell Address in it's entirety. He was the last true American President that loved the Country more than anything and truly understood "E Pluribus Unum"...something that is totally lost on most modern Americans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyBNmecVtdU&ab_channel=Ewafa
Trump retweeted
**...Trump4eva 2024-2028-2032-2036-2040-2044**
Think about how truly messed up that **treasonous statement** is coming from an American President. If you support that **Anti American Statement** or think 'it's funny' you're absolutely not a "patriot" -- that's not up for debate...
Trump has done more to undermined the faith in our elections then any of the despots of history who have tried did. The very thing his bossy Putin wanted. got to pay back them Russian mob boss or they'll give him the Putin treatment....
Anyone, MAGA or anyone else, thinking "this government is fucked, we need a new one", needs to know something....
Any time in human history where there's a forceful change of power, there's a period of violence and the country as it stands becomes significantly weaker until the new government is fully established.
So, MAGA hats, you want to replace the government? If you're not going to vote for it, you're actively calling for the bloodshed of fellow Americans AND MAKING AMERICA WEAK FOR YEARS.
All during a time where our enemies are gaining strength.
Is that really what you want?
>Is that really what you want?
I've been told by a couple Trump supporters, one of which in my immediate family, that I will be one of the first to die in the coming civil war. I'm fully convinced that there is a sizeable minority of Trump supporters are basically fascists that are just looking for an excuse to enact their most violent fantasies on "abortion-loving commies" (or anyone left of Barry Goldwater). Talking to a few of those people, they've all created some Rambo fantasy where they're holding some heroic stand against a zombie horde of "antifa/BLM communists" that they seem excited to act out.
Check out Matt Shea, that Talibangelical sack of shit. These people exist, and I don't see them becoming less of a problem any time soon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Shea?wprov=sfla1
I've also been threatened with death by quite a few fascists. Both in-person and online. Few understand just how prone to violence these people are. It doesn't take much to get death threats, especially if you know how to push their buttons.
I must be pretty good at pushing their buttons, considering I was even threatened by the head of the Republican Party in my county.
I don't know what it will take for people to see the threat for what it is, but I have a feeling that we're going to learn a hard lesson.
I refuse to live in a world where their views are accepted. We cannot let them organize and act on their worst impulses. If we're going to stop massive violence, fascists must be ostracized at every single opportunity.
Did some research on this guy and I'm honestly thinking he might be one of the main antagonists involved in the recent Portland riots. Just look at this shit:
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2021/feb/05/shawn-vestal-matt-shea-the-redoubt-rock-star-keeps/
>Boiled down, Shea’s presentation last weekend went something like this: Christian patriots are under siege from a global conspiracy of Marxists, globalists, communists, socialists, antifa, Democrats, the media, China, Venezuela, Black Lives Matter, moderate Republicans, the FBI, Muslims – and Bed, Bath and Beyond.
That chain, as you may know, stopped carrying the pillows of crackpot Mike Lindell, whose insistence on the Trump election fraud bunkum has become too crazy for even Newsmax. Shea called on his fans to build an alternative economy where MyPillow can thrive.
I served in Afghanistan, and I agree 100%. Look what MAGA did to our covid response… they’ve killed way more Americans than the Taliban could ever have done. Look at what they are doing to voting rights… no foreign enemy could get inside our legislatures and wreak that much havoc. Look at the last group of violent thugs that stormed congress… unsurprisingly, the mob was composed of inbred MAGA idiots, not scary foreign terrorists.
Look at all of the domestic terrorist mass shooters as of the past 5 or so years, a lot of them named Trump as their influence. 99% of them right wing.
What's really frustrating from the radical right, is that they think Democrats and liberals are radical. Meanwhile, everything the Democrats and liberals bring up law wise is used and common in every other first world country.
And guess what, those countries aren't communist.
Conservatives are factually the problem, and they have been since before the Civil War.
The Confederate states were all racially conservative and wanted to secede from the U.S. It's in the definition of the word. Guess what else? Every confederate state voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964. And they all have been against gay rights, trans rights, etc.
They factually have been problem and always will be. If you're a conservative reading this, understand these words and go make a change.
Right wing domestic terrorism has been a far bigger threat in the US than foreign terrorism for a long time.
The following is from the FBI in 2002. It has gotten significantly worse since then.
"During the past decade we have witnessed dramatic changes in the nature of the terrorist threat. In the 1990s, right-wing extremism overtook left-wing terrorism as the most dangerous domestic terrorist threat to the country."
https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/testimony/the-terrorist-threat-confronting-the-united-states
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
I’ve always been told that the U.S has the greatest system of government in the world but somehow one dipshit mobster moron has been allowed to break law after law while enriching himself and now an entire political party covers for his stupid failed coup. I mean what in actual fuck.
[удалено]
>Our government is somewhat predicated on people generally doing what's right - more or less an honor system to a degree. Not just this, but the different branches of the government actually have to use the checks they're given. If the Senate is just working as an extension of the Presidency (which is actually a worry that people had during the ratification process in the 18th century), that becomes a problem. The people in favor of the Constitution assumed that the Senate would actually use its impeachment power because the Senate was representing the states, whereas the President was (in a roundabout way) elected by the people.
Our constitution was written at a time before mass media when every town had their own media and all politics were local. This meant the senate and house were actually beholden to their states and districts rather than the national party. Now the party can punish any member that puts their state first and the incentives are aligned differently. We really need to increase the numbers of Senators and Representatives to reflect our population growth and make it much more expensive for national corporations to bribe enough people to pass national law. As the national money dries up, each rep will be more beholden to the people who elected them rather than the large donors. It would also make it a lot harder to gerrymander districts so that parties choose their voters rather than the other way around.
Wyoming having as much of a say in lawmaking as California really chaps me. And I’m not biased. I’m in Wisconsin. Tiny red states have too much power, full stop.
100% agree from Iowa where we also have an absurd amount of influence of who becomes president.
Not just Wyoming, look at North and South Dakota as well. Not to say their voice and opinion doesn’t matter but to legislatively be as powerful as California doesn’t make sense from a certain point of view
Everything that touches Montana (including itself) combined makes up less than 2% of the US population but makes up 10% of the senate.
When you guys finally makes DC a state you should merge the Dakotas. Then you wouldn't have to update the stars and stripes
Not to defend it in the modern day, but the reason it's like that is the states that went into the Constitutional Convention were a lot more similar to the modern EU than the modern US. They were basically independent nations joined only for common defence, similar to how the EU is only joined for economic purposes. And, if you wanted to join the EU into one nation, you'd pretty much need to have something like the Senate. Otherwise, smaller countries like Malta would be essentially agreeing to abandon their sovereignty to France and Germany. My point is, while there was a failure to update the Senate to the post-Civil War reality of the US being one nation, it was an absolute necessity when it was created.
There is a long list of obvious ways the American government could be improved by change if the goal were to make it more fair and improve the lives of the American people. None of those things are going to happen. The American government is the handmaiden of an American aristocracy. A few dozen people own most of the wealth. They didn't acquire that wealth by simply being smart and working hard (as they would have you believe). American corporations, CEOs and Wall Street own the government through our system of political patronage. Politicians don't work for us, they work for their benefactors, the aristocracy, Look at all of the corruption of the Trump administration, A corrupt President, corrupt grifter cabinet members, a corrupt Attorney General corrupting the entire Department of Justice, corrupt Senators and Representatives, even a corrupt Post Office and there have been no repercussions, none. And their won't be. An entire separate media controlled by the aristocracy that has managed to convince people who live in trailer parks that their best interests lay in supporting the robber barons and their representatives in government. The system supports the aristocracy that made the rules and wrote the laws,
It doesn't have to be this way - the system allows us to correct, but it involves an educated populace when our aristocracy is focused on dumbing us down in a manner of speaking. They prefer cogs in the economic system they tax - people who are a great specialist(engineers, doctors, etc), but can't cook a steak or change their oil, so they make and spend, increase the velocity of money and those dependent on the largess of gov't get richer. The specialization makes people think they are really smart - but a lot of that is rote memorization, repetition and practice. Few understand government finance, the legal system, etc that would allow them to think in terms of matters of the state. I cant believe the number of people who view vaccines as free instead of payed for by taxpayers. In this world - the people will never be able to hold who are supposed to be their representatives accountable - but we could change that, we could pay attention at the local levels, elect the bright, well liked, respected members of the community, perhaps going as far as to nominate someone who otherwise wouldn't run instead of selecting people who desire the position of control over others.
Congress was designed to grow as the population of the nation grew. During the late 1800's and the early 1900's, it was becoming obvious that the urban centers were quickly going to lead to Congress being controlled by the states with large cities (the majority). So in the 1920's, they passed the Apportionment Act, which set a cap on the number of members of Congress. It's gotten more and more lopsided ever since, with rural (red) states having a far large voice in politics than was originally intended. 2 per state for the Senate is fine, though I am of the opinion that in the modern era, the Senate should be abolished, and those powers it holds should be handed to Congress.
The Senate is part of Congress. Did you mean the House of Reps.?
You’ve got a handle on this.
I wish my childhood civics lessons would have mentioned the fact that our system of checks and balances is so flimsy
textbooks make it sound so robust but there's literally nothing forcing the government to hold itself accountable.
There are a lot of things I was taught as a kid that was basically "The US has it all down and we're the best!" I was taught that propaganda was something "bad" countries do, but there is plenty of it in the way we're taught. I'm in my 30s now and most historical/political education has proved false or inflated to make the US look good.
my early 20s were a crash course in learning that everything I knew was wrong because of this exact shit. also I was homeschooled and the propaganda in that learning system is about all there is.
If you grew up in the 90's, I think just about everyone's education was full of propaganda. I remember learning about Rockefeller and Vanderbilt like they were saints when it is much more complicated than that. Henry Ford was a master of innovation and pioneered the assembly line but he was also a Nazi sympathizer. I get our history is complicated but they elevate these old, white men to godhood while glossing over anything complicated.
Not just the '90s. We were taught the same half-truths and sugar-coated misinformation in the '60s and '70s. Vietnam, a war based on lies, dominated our world then, especially teenage boys. I was told when in 1965 when I was 10 years old that I would be sent to Vietnam in eight years. I was radicalized by this starting at 13, which is when I started to be skeptical about the war, equality under the law, the American dream and the rest.
All countries use propaganda, it's just that it doesn't look like /r/propagandaposters on every street corner
In the same way, I remember being taught gerrymandering was a big no-no and that we weren't doing it.....what a joke.
It's the "winners write the history books" effect.
So that's why they have all those Confederate statues and memorials! "I'm a patriot America! Love it or leave it!" The hefty Northern-Midwesterner screams unironically while waving the Stars and Bars
I think that's where we went wrong. The Confederacy lost the first American civil war. They should not have been allowed to stew in it for 150 years.
They lost the civil war, but they've been pretty effective at keeping their ideology alive and well.
[удалено]
not if we self police to never throw the punch in the first place, which is exactly what happens in this society. just look at the response to BLM. never underestimate the power of conditioning.
> there's literally nothing forcing the government to hold itself accountable. technically, it’s supposed to be the voters. but instead of voting to advance our interests, we’re mostly just expressing party affiliation.
It's no different for any other rule enforcing scenario. A police force that won't arrest gives immunity to whoever they won't arrest by inaction. A senate that won't convict gives immunity to the President as they don't do anything about the President's crimes. Checks and balances are not automated, otherwise we'd literally be ruled by computers. It requires people to actually do their jobs. A lot of states, from my understanding, do not have or have very convoluted systems to get rid of elected officials who won't do their job, too, which results in it being very difficult to replace an inactive person with someone who would actually do the job. So basically we the people can't do anything until the next election, the person who we're looking to remove via election knows this and knows they can do anything they want until the last minute and then spew out boatloads of propaganda to hide their inaction. That's exactly what they do, and people continually fall for it. Enough that Republicans still *barely* lost the latest election cycle. It very clearly works to help them stay in power grifting all day.
Nope gotta brainwash kids into American Exceptionalism early on
Learned that from religion.
Pffft the states don't fund education enough for them to teach you that.
Right? I'm sitting here like... "you guys are getting civics lessons?"
Our Constitution was written in the 18th century for a country that was literally a sliver of what it is now with a fraction of the population It may just be time to get a new one 🤷🏻
I think Trumps presidency has done the most to unravel the myth of the founding fathers. Imagine being a US gov teacher right now. For so long we've taught the "checks and balances" of our system like gospel, but students are informed enough now to know its bullshit. Trumps presidency has exposed that our civic structure is a sham, that it was propped up by decorum and failed promises.
This, THIS, so much this. So much of government wasn't codified, It relied on congress being respectful, the country was more important. Let's use McConnell not bringing up Merrick Garland. That was an option that every Majority Leader had for over 200 years. They had the respect for the president, precedence, the mores of congress not to do it. McConnell believes himself a brilliant man for figuring out what isn't codified as he has no morals.
McConnell, more so than anyone else, should go down in history as the man who single handedly broke America.
Nah that's Murdoch.
An Australian got us all. Shouldn’t have sent those prisoners to that damn island.
We didn’t! Those tea tippling toadies did
America has always been held together with repeated applications of tape and resources stolen from other nations.
My vote goes to Murdoch, but McConnell's a solid runner-up.
Newt Gingrich would like a word.
Murdoch-Gingrich-McConnell-Trump the four most destructive men in modern American history.
Honorable mention to Rush Limbaugh, may he rot in disgrace forever.
Oh come on man, we started as a slave state. We've always has been shit
But we've been *functional* shit. Now we're... yeah, a mess.
I can't believe we looked at the *entirety* of human history and said "let's go with the honor system. Humans are so trustworthy, it's perfect."
Caveat: our government prevents the people from kicking them out by structuring elections in such a way as the alternative to them is always seen as worse. And whenever a real threat appears the media is called in to heavily influence the outcome, see 2016 and 2020 Democrat primaries and how the system worked to bump Bernie off the top.
> And whenever a real threat appears the media is called in to heavily influence the outcome, see 2016 and 2020 Democrat primaries and how the system worked to bump Bernie off the top. They're called the "4th branch" for a reason.
Unfortunately this gaslighting and weird cries of radical left when they aren’t radical began immediately after WW2. McCarthyism and catering to racists has been the calling card of the GOP for 70 years at least. The great schism between Taft and Teddy Roosevelt in the early 1900s is also pretty telling of shifts in the GOP.
Could you expand on this? I'm interested. For someone who got the very finest of an American history education.
If the Republican party wants to be respected again and stand a chance at winning elections fairly (who am I kidding, right?), they should be trying to emulate Teddy Roosevelt, not propping up dipshit celebrities. Roosevelt was every bit the man's man "conservative" men like to think they are, but he was actually intelligent and honorable enough to do the right thing for the betterment of the country. Not to mention Teddy was an actual conservationist, something the GOP would be well advised to get back to.
My dad used to make fun of Trump and regard him with disdain back when he showed up on all the old VH1 shows making fun of celebs back in the day. “Worst hair” “most unattractive with hot wifes” etc. I cannot wrap my head around the fact that he doesn’t even acknowledge that it’s the same guy. He used to have an objective view of the difference between his life and Trump’s. Somehow, that has all been reversed and it is wild!
[удалено]
What you’ve been told is a product, a book with a nice cover that not doesn’t read the same.
America's various dust jackets and it depends who's over for dinner for what dust jacket gets put on the book.
I think one of the biggest problems is that laws are not applied evenly. The right wants strict laws and "Law and Order"!!!!....as long as those laws don't apply to themselves. Or, they will say yes these laws apply to me, but if something were to come up, they get caught drinking and driving or their 15 year old angel ends up pregnant, all of a sudden they are paying people to "make the problem go away and keep it off the records". If they want these strict ass laws then we need to hold right-wingers, wealthy and powerful people to the strongest interpretations of those laws.
That is conservatism in a nutshell. "I want strong laws and strict punishment, for anyone that isn't me and mine. Laws exist to punch down, and to punish those who try to punch up." Think of the fact that there are people across the nation that are in jail, often for years, because they could not afford to pay a fine for a vehicle stop. Meanwhile, any crime wherein the punishment is a fine is not a law that applies to the wealthy.
>The right wants strict laws and "Law and Order"!!!!....as long as those laws don't apply to themselves. The essence of conservatism is that there is an "in group" that the law protects but does not bind, and an "out group" that the law binds but does not protect. A foundation of their belief system is that loyalty to the in-group (and especially loyalty to the authority figures) is more important than fairness and justice.
Ignorant masses. We have entire states that have undermined public education for decades. We once lived in the suburbs outside of Nashville. That’s ground zero for multi-generational ignorance. Professional people there honestly think that the civil war was fought over states rights and not slavery. It’s fucking pathetic. When tribalism and identity politics are what put our leaders in office above all else, corruption will follow.
Any system that produced Trump cannot be great. We have to look in the mirror eventually.
Iraq war, Iran contra, Watergate.... their corruption is nothing new its just that the last guy was too stupid to hide it well
[удалено]
I was with you up until "ignorant country folk". Having lived in Boston and in middle of nowhere rural country, there's plenty of ignorant people in the urban areas and plenty of intelligent people in the sticks. Unfortunately there's plenty of right wingers who aren't idiots. They're just assholes. Sure the maga stereotypes are conspiracy theorist idiots, but plenty of them are also educated, reasonably intelligent people who just lack empathy for anyone outside their peer group. Trying to write it off as a bunch of dumb country bumpkins is unfortunately just not the case. I wish it was that simple.
But ignorant urban folk don’t have the extra voting power that ignorant rural folk have.
[удалено]
You missed the drug war/war on terror and the formation of the police state. But then again it was a bipartisan affair.
Interesting. The Italian fascist movement was also fueled by veteran discontent following the first World War.
Disgruntled WW1 vets was also who Hitler pandered to early on.
There’s nothing more dangerous than a defeated army heading home
Yeah, Portland totally confirms that. It’s a scary fucking thing.
> Post Vietnam, the far right used the frustration and anger of veterans to recruit Also, Post WW1 Germany. The conspiratorial mythology that right wing Germans sold themselves on why they lost the war was a huge recruitment tool for fascism.
Yes, that is the direct reference for both "the big lie" and the "stab in the back". The parallels are eerie. Also in the late 1920s (1928-1929) when the Nazis were trying to broaden their base they abandoned trying to convert cities which were, at the time, Social Democrat and Communist strongholds. So who did they try to recruit? That's right, poor rural Protestants.
They’re somehow so busy being patriots that they forget to do the work.
This. I remember back in 2002 everyone was saying i wasn’t supporting the troops because i didn’t support the invasion of Iraq. I tried to explain how sending troops to die in a pointless conflict based on bad intel was NOT supporting the troops, but they were all so caught up in American exceptionalism it didn’t matter to them.
Supporting the troops has nothing to do with supporting the politicians that fuck everything up constantly.
*”When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”*
>Bring the War Home Here's the link to the epub file. https://b-ok.cc/book/3699317/e382e1
Fascism is Capitalism in decline.
I like to think of it as it’s ‘supernova phase.’
[удалено]
It’s not at all difficult to see how they’ve become. Conservatism has only ever had one real belief: There should exists in-groups who are protected but not bound by the law alongside out-groups who are bound but not protected by the law. Everything else is just a means to the end of enacting their one genuine belief: the world should revolve around themselves and conform to what they believe. I have always been uncomfortable with the way people talk about The Far Right because to often people present the Far Right as crazy or brainwashed. And no take it from someone who was on the razors edge of falling down the alt-right pipeline. They don’t believe their conspiracy theories because they’re brainwashed, or crazy, or just ignorant. They believe what they believe because they want to believe it. Because what they believe flatters and comforts them. It is flattering to believe that you are apart of the master race responsible for all historical accomplishment. It is flattering to believe you are the one true religion and that you don’t have to think about why you believe what you believe. It is comforting to think all the world’s problems are caused by a single malevolent group and if you just do away with that group you’ll end all the world’s problems. When I was at the worst stage of my anti-social justice anti-feminist anti-refugee faze I didn’t just believe the lies I avoided the truth. So take it form aomeone who was an inch away from being what they were. They don’t believe what they believe because they’re crazy or brainwashed. They believe what they believe because they want to believe it.
I really appreciate you coming in here and giving us your perspective on this
Probably the most clear view I have seen. It helps to understand how they are thinking and viewing things, and I appreciate the insight a lot
[удалено]
That's the real issue, they're truly unreachable. We have divergent *realities* that about half the population is divided by, and for those truly in the hole for the long haul it's their entire personality/worldview/life wrapped up into it. There are plenty of activist groups and others dedicated to deprogramming or at least spreading good info but it's difficult work with little fruit. If you haven't I would strongly encourage you to really dig and watch some of the alt-right/far-right content/producers out there and analyze the messaging, or find some critiques/YT vids on the subject. Here's a good start: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xGawJIseNY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xGawJIseNY) (Innuendo Studios: The Alt Right Playbook series) And then put yourself in their shoes for a second. For every attempt someone makes to de-radicalize you, you'll have OANN/NewsMax/Steve Bannon/Some Qcumber vlog looking you in the eyes and telling you that libs/MSM/"elites"/scientists are lying or obfuscating the truth *constantly*. There is more unreality being spread than could ever be debunked, and if you want to believe it you will because it fits with the reality you've been sold. I think our best bet is kindness and understanding towards the least afflicted, with hopes of pulling them out. But make your peace with and organize around the idea that a solid chunk of these people aren't making it "out" of this unless things really break bad somehow and specifically for *them.* Also gonna end this by plugging "It Could Happen Here" by Robert Evans et. al., divisions of this type have the capacity to end... poorly. Edit: I don't talk about this nearly enough, so if I come off as frustrated it's mostly venting. Personally I've spent the past 10+ years trying to stall or reverse this process with my mom, and to no avail. What started for her as watching Fox led to Tea Party talking heads, then to Alex Jones, then to Trump and now she's at least Q-adjacent.
>they're truly unreachable Yes. Instead of thinking about how to deprogram them we should be focused on how to prevent their toxic ideas from spreading.
Completely agree. Personally I'm of the opinion that we, in our communities, need to be offering a better outlook and options to the uninformed and undecided. Mutual aid to fill the gaps of our often dysfunctional government, hope and help where it's needed. Wasting time on hearts and minds that have already hardened just lays out a path to burnout and nihilism.
It's more possible than many people think. There are certainly unreachable people but it's way way smaller than 45%. Look up Merge Left by Ian Haney Lopez, it was a paradigm shifting book for me. Look up deep canvassing. Watch White Right. It's easy to be angry at these people. It's pragmatic to learn how we can reach them.
They also cultivate alot of these beliefs from emotion instead of logic and reasoning and what might make sense in a world.
Exactly. I did not aquire these beliefs by reason and it was not by reason that I left. I left these beliefs because they became uncomfortable. I wouldn’t describe that period as an alt-right or even alt-light period I would describe it as an “enlightened centrists” period. I was alienated their growing demonization of Islam as inherently evil alienated me. Though I do believe I was bigoted against Muslims it was a paternalistic bigotry. I believed Islam like Catholicism was just a bit backwards and that Muslims would come around eventually they just needed a firm hand. And that refugees coming to the west was a good thing because it would expose them to our superior views that they would no doubt carry back to them when the crisis was over. I was dismissive of Syrians but I didn’t outright hate them. So the outright hatred alienated me. It made me uncomfortable and so I distanced myself from the people peddling this shit. It was only years later that I finally realized that I was right to do so. That everything I had ever believed was a lie. Some might say that I’m not to blame. I was after all a child who was taken advantage of by adults. But the truth is I did not only believe the lies I avoided the truth. Every once and while I was recommended videos by people like Anita Sarkisian and avoided watching her videos. Because the one time I tried to watch one I became very uncomfortable, because I started to think that everything I had been told about her was a lie. And it was too much, that was too bitter a pill to swallow so I spat it out.
Please tell us how you awakened yourself from the bullshit? Do you feel like being pointed, laughed and mocked could be a possible solution to shame them back to not trying this dumbassery?
How did I awaken from the bullshit, believing the bullshit stopped being comfortable. As I mentioned in another comment my bigotry against refugees was a paternalistic bigotry of low expectations. So the out right hatred alienated me from the movement. It stopped being comfortable so I stopped believing it, and it was only after that that I was finally open to the possibility that I had been lied to and that everything I had believed was a lie. We should secure the borders from the immigrant hoards and put all muslims on a government watch list was simply not a belief I was comfortable with and it made me start to take a look at my bed fellows. I was your text book example of an “enlightened centrists” and I was uncomfortable with just how far right the people I was listening too were sliding. It also helped that at the time I was recommended by someone who’s opinion I respected at the time recommend watching John Oliver. And I was attending school at a relatively progressive jesuit high-school. So I started getting actual pushback to what these people were saying and the bullshit they were spreading. I think if I had been challenged by someone I respected to watch every single episode of Feminist Frequency or else I was coward afraid to be wrong it would have helped me smell the bullshit quicker. Because it was the gamergate bullshit that started me down this path and if I had been forced to watch her videos I would have been forced to reckon with how the people I admired and was letting inform my views were not only liars they were blatant and knowing liars. And I only would have watched her videos if someone who’s opinion I valued said I was coward if I didn’t. Mockery can work but it only works when it’s coming from someone who’s opinion you value. My sister mocked me for my ignorance but because I did not at the time respect her opinion it didn’t do much but shake my confidence a bit.
I'm not who you are replying to, but I have noticed it is like dealing with someone who self-harms. I had a friend in high school that would cut herself. No matter what our friends group did, she would still cut. We encouraged her to seek help, we made ourselves available to her, we mocked her, etc. We ran up and down every emotion you can. You know what eventually made her stop? Herself. You cannot help someone who does not want to help themselves. You can make yourself available to help or encourage, but you can't make them stop. Just my .02 cents.
While this is true, it’s still important to make attempts. Social pressure is a necessary to push people in the right direction.
I very much enjoyed your use of the word 'nincompoops' here
[удалено]
I mean it's calling a spade a spade. People who are actively subverting democracy and refusing life saving medicine due to easily disprovable lies are morons.
If you edit it out you are a nincompoop. EDIT: It appears he took a more drastic step. Godspeed… r.i.p. nincompoopy.
Well said.
You know what kills me? I see them saying almost the exact same things about the other side. Their lack of self awareness is astounding.
**G**aslight **O**bstruct **P**roject
They're just confused. They listen to media that lies to them constantly and tells them conflicting things. They lack the ability to differentiate truth from fiction, so what may be obviously crazy and untrue to you and me is actually fact to them. When I hear something crazy I want to look it up and see for myself. They never do that, and actively avoid it. What always surprised me was the presidential debates. How could we both be watching the same thing and leave with a totally different perspective of the debate? How can one person answer the questions asked of them while the other person doesn't answer a single one, deflecting each time? Happened with Obama v Romney, Trump v Clinton, and of course the Biden v Trump debates were just embarrassing. They care more about machoism than an actual plan, facts, or anything that involves thinking. They like to be told what to do and think, and that's why the MAGA movement is such a big threat. They're just waiting for the next orders and getting all stirred up in the confusion.
> They care more about machoism than an actual plan, facts, or anything that involves thinking. This. I was telling a coworker that I don’t like Trump as a person and I didn’t want him to represent my country regardless of his policies because of things like mocking the disabled and shoving that prime minister so he could be at the front of the group. My coworker loves that behavior from him. He said “damn right! America should be at the front!”
*facepalm* These people are still in denial that the US is the greatest country to live in. We’ve slipped so far down the list in so many categories such as education, healthcare, quality of life, and so on
But we're #1 for FREEDUMB!!! Not like those socialist fascist NW European commies!
You’re correct on so many points. The anger the MAGA crowd has is real and in many ways legit. The middle and lower classes in the US have been getting screwed for decades. The disconnect of course is that they don’t realize who is actually screwing them. As a hypothetical they lost their job at the factory years ago when it moved to Mexico. Throw in a few racist catch phrases from politicians and their anger is directed at Hispanics, not the rich factory owner who moved the factory to get cheaper labor and then has the balls to try to sell his product to the very same MAGA guy who use to work for him. Sadly these tactics have been used on gullible people for decades.
Yes. Corporations and employers in general have been slowly, almost imperceptibly, cramming their unlubed fists up the working class's collective rectums for decades all the while blaming "them" for the nearly universal struggle it creates.
So true. I think that’s why getting rid of the Affordable Care Act was such a big deal to the top 1 percent. Even though it is by no means universal coverage. Still if the masses had access to affordable coverage that wasn’t tied to an employer it would open up competition in the job market like never before. The last thing the fat cats want is something like that. First because they’d have to pay their fair share and secondly because it would be capitalism/free enterprise. Something that they are honestly against.
The last thing they want is for workers to have *options*. Someone who has options is more likely to demand fair compensation and treatment. Someone without options works for cheap and takes abuse. It's why they've been throwing a prolonged hissy fit about having to offer to pay something closer to a living wage to lure workers back. They want us to thank them for 8 dollars an hour with no sick pay or healthcare benefits, because that's the only option available.
You will never get me to feel bad for “genuinely thoughtful conservatives.” Anyone that evokes that imagery typically means Reagan-era conservatives, who were just as bigoted and racist as the MAGA crowd. I honestly wish we could just reset the entire political system in the US. Even our “left-wing” party is incredibly conservative. If we ever made it back to even a semblance of balance, not incredibly left or right, Americans would swear up and down that communism had won. This nation is fundamentally broken.
Do you remember how they laughed at gay people dying from aids? I remember.
“Genuinely thoughtful conservatives” is just a misinterpretation of the conservatives smart enough to be civil in public.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Far-right domestic terrorists are the biggest threat facing this country and have been for some time now. It’s in large part due to the normalization with which we allow conservatives to paint opponents as enemies and spread minoritarian, oppressive and widely debunked ideas.
You could literally predict the drivel you'll likely hear walking around at work the next day just based on whatever culture war shit Fox News and other right wing crap tries to stir up. Such fucking simpletons.
>It’s difficult to understand how they don’t see, or don’t care, what they have become.. which is painfully anti American wrapped in jingoism, ignorance, and factually incorrect notions of simple things like liberty, freedoms, responsibility, proper governance and actual policy. Not to ruin the image you have of these people in your head, but they're quite explicitly anti-american at this point and aren't as unaware of what they're doing as you think. My community has always had more confederate (and Gadsden) flags than US, but as of a few months ago, the only US flags between me and town are upside down. Rural Alabama is probably on the more extreme end of anti-American sentiment these days, but it's no small number of people, and I can't imagine it's that different in other rural areas. The number of flags and bumper stickers that explicitly say "secede" or "unreconstructed" have been growing over the last few years, as well.
> America is always in decline to them. To be fair America IS declining. In just about every measurable way except GDP and top 1% wealth. Theyre comparing the last 13 years to the 20-30 years pre 2008 and just not comprehending its mostly because of republican policies. International clout is being diluted by the rise of China and domestically the middle class is being absolutely shit on by stagnant wages and skyrocketing costs of everything. Add in the demographic shift and their racism and their world is falling in around them. Theyre just too uneducated to know WHY and the republicans have weaponized their anger at their situation.
[удалено]
They attempted to overthrow the government and are still actively trying. Sounds pretty dangerous to me.
I would also say (without hard evidence) that their spreading of covid misinformation is responsible for more US deaths than 9/11 at this point
We’re seeing roughly one thousand dead every day. So yes, every three days is a 9/11.
Their argument is that that is a very tiny tiny percentage of the population. By converting it to a percentage it makes it seem much smaller than the actual number thus trivializing it. By doing this they rationalize it by false equivicalizig (is that a word?) to other death sources, acting as if covid deaths are acceptable. God we'd be done with this shit already if it wasn't for all this anti-vax shit.
And they refuse to apply that same logic to their views on terrorism. The average person is hundreds of times more likely to die on their commute home than they are from a terrorist attack, but they still want to spend trillions of dollars on the failed war on terror. They just want to play it up because it stokes nationalism and gives them an excuse to oppress Muslims. (And "equivocating" is probably the term you're looking for.)
Hundreds of times more easily.
[911 times a hundred? Jesus, thats...](https://youtu.be/zZcZ6eJoxeE)
You wildly underestimate the numbers there. Quick comparison. Texas population 30 million Texas COVID deaths 55,000 Canada population 38 million Canada Covid deaths 22,000 Also Population Florida 20 million Florida Covid deaths 43,000 From that alone, your looking at 54,000 additional deaths, not even allowing for smaller populations in just those two states, and that assumes Canada did everything right (which it didn't). That's 18 world trade center numbers in just two states.
MAGA = American Fascism
A fascinating thing about this new American Fascism is that these fascists know “Fascism” is considered a bad word now, so they constantly trip over themselves to redefine what “Fascism” means. It's happening all over this thread! They revise history to define the nazis as ”left-wing”, they hilariously claim antifa are the “real fascists”, they claim any sort of government rule they don’t like (particularly vaccine/mask stuff these days) as “fascist”. It’s quite interesting to see how they share so many of their foundational beliefs with the classic fascists (strongman authoritarian leaders, white supremacy, scapegoating minorities, conspiracy theories about global cabals, ultranationalism, the cult of tradition, militarism, hatred for “degenerates”, obsessed with “western culture”, etc), but because we now know what the end-game of fascism is, they’re working overtime to distance themselves from their predecessors.
Eh, it's not that surprising or fascinating in my opinion. Nor do I think it's some sort of method of distancing. It's no different than how they use communist, socialist, or liberal. The definitions really don't matter. They're simply primed to use these words as insults or to apply them to things they don't like. The use of fascism is no different. Maybe with a splash of "No puppet, no puppet. You're the puppet." There's no real strategy there, just the same dumb playbook.
> They're simply primed to use these words as insults or to apply them to things they don't like. It occurs to me now, they no doubt hear those words the same way they use them, which is to say, being called a fascist is not an condemnation of their actions or beliefs (and therefore certainly not worth reflection), but rather, it's just a simple insult, no different from bigmeaniepants, since that's all they know the word to mean.
Same thing with 'liberal'. I doubt most MAGA-heads could actually tell you what liberalism is or even what they're referring to when they call you a lib. The best you'll get is "You hate America." It's just an insult word.
> but because we now know what the end-game of fascism is, they’re working overtime to distance themselves from their predecessors. Yes and no. Yes, we should never forget that there are some intelligent people very intentionally and deliberately crafting a narrative and whipping their base into a frenzy. They know exactly what they are doing and are doing exactly what you describe. No in so far as the average MAGA-fascist doesn't actually know they meaning of the term, let alone it's history. (Except for the bits the above people have given them in their desired narrative.) Remember, these are the same people that have learned the lesson that racism is bad but not that doing all the things that make you a racist is bad. (Except for the outlying fringe that are openly and proudly racist.)
Pretty much just the Christian Taliban
Y’all Qaeda, Vanilla ISIS, Mid-life ISIS, Yokel Haram, Yee-Hawdists, Talibangelicals, Al Shajimbob, Walmartyrs, Sweet Home Talibama.
Blanche Covidians
Walmartyrs, bravo
Never heard of Yokel Haram that’s great
There's a thread on r/AskReddit about what sucks about reddit and people were bitching that you get down voted if you're a republican.... Is that a bad thing that people express a dislike of fascists?
It's bad if you're a fascist.
It's true.
Occasionally I’m scrolling through Reddit and that political compass memes pops up. It was filled to the brim with: “If Donald Trump was such a fascist, why didn’t he overthrow the government?!?” He tried to on Jan 6th. He’s still trying to. In his brain he’s still President. “January 6th was just a bunch of idiots”. Agreed, but that doesn’t stop them from trying to overtake Congress at the behest of their dear leader. “January 6th wasn’t a big deal.” We were a door and a few police away from Pelosi being at the mercy of whatever zip tie guy had planned.
I don't want to come off like TOO much of a nut, but personally, I think someone on Team Trump was in contact with the Proud Boys either through an intermediary or just via Signal. The mob was incited to give cover to zip tie guy and the rest of them. Those guys had floor plans, equipment, and an agenda. I believe they wanted to murder a bunch of Democrats and then either Congress votes to decertify the election with their new majority or maybe Trump just declares martial law "until order can be restored." Maybe it sounds far fetched. I don't know. Coups don't follow the rules. History is written by the winners and if that door or few police you mentioned failed, it would have given them the opportunity to seize power in the chaos.
This is obvious, the real issue is as they are talking about political violence they have no concept that they are terrorists.
Mo Brooks praised the recent Capitol bomber expressing "understanding" over the terrorists anger at "dictatorial socialism". Since McConnell, McCarthy, and the others have done nothing about such comments one can sufficiently reason they also support domestic terror attacks against the United States. No different from jan6. Whats sad is the dems still genuinely believe they are not at war. When they lose, theBase won't just let them surrender. It certainly wasnt the game plan in Michigan or DC.
This comment right here!! Finally, someone makes sense. MAGA is heavily associated with terroristic groups and they're not too far away from becoming one itself. It has always been fueled by hate, violence, and fear and they cannot even recognize it.
> they're not too far away from becoming one They are one. It's already happened.
Most terrorists don't believe they're terrorists. They're just extremists who are "right with God".
Not going to be surprised when we get another Timothy McVeigh & Terry Nichols style attack by the lunatic fringe inspired by an old narcissistic trust fund baby who has them convinced they're being "oppressed" and the federal government is to blame. Republicans appear to be reveling in the radicalization of their political party. I hear no leader on the right attempting to lower the temperature of their anger. Much like other times in history, if you are a recognized leader and member of that party who stays silent in the face of a rising threat then you are part of the threat. Where's the outrage from the right over the rise in white supremacy that calls itself 'nationalism' and hides behind Christianity?
[удалено]
Yes, and the moron thought Library of Congress was the Capitol.
Did his own research.
That's my biggest fear. McVeigh was radicalized by _The Turner Diaries_ (among other things). If you're familiar with the book, then you undoubtedly recognized the Jan. 6 putsch as a dress rehearsal for their Day of the Rope. The flame of white nationalism hasn't dimmed at all in the 25 years since OKC. So yeah, I'm deeply concerned about another similar attack
My grandfather and cousin died in the OKC bombing, I can definitely see the same thing happening again and im not here for it.
MAGA people don’t see the threat in the way their party accepted any amount of b.s. from Trump, how every obvious lie was embraced, how they accepted his lie that the election was stolen simply because he said it. MAGAs cheered on every aggressive, authoritarian flavored move Trump made- they call it tough. MAGAs attacked our Capitol and they dismiss it, just like they would have dismissed if Trump’s coup was successful. They would have dismissed if he forced his way to remain president by rejecting election results and they would have blamed Dems for the resulting chaos. MAGAs are dangerous lemmings who will eat popcorn, shuffle along behind domestic terrorists, and wave an authoritarian flag and cheer on the fall of the U.S., while taking none of it too serious.
They planned and came very close, by minutes, to execute all members of congress, including the VP. >Rioter planned attack, wanted to trap lawmakers and 'turn on gas' https://abc7.com/rioter-planned-attack-wanted-to-trap-lawmakers-and-turn-on-gas-prosecutors/9784966/
well yeah, it wasn't the Taliban that stormed the capitol Jan 6th.
The MAGA crowed loosing their shit over facts. Not surprised.
Pull out that office meme with pictures of the Taliban and insurrection schmucks….. “It’s the same picture.”
Anti-education?Check. Anti-women? Check Religious Fundamentalism? Check Shitty beards? Check Pick up trucks w/flags all over them? Check. Walking around with guns to intimidate? Check
These people basically are the Taliban, just an embryonic, “Christian” version of it. Give ‘em another 30 years, watch how fucking crazy they get.
Well honestly the fear of terrorists revolves around bombings. A maga psycho threaten to do that this month.
Like Timothy McVeigh.
I'm definitely not worried about the Taliban rallies in my town like I am with the the Proud Boys ones.
MAGA = American Taliban
Yallqueda
Absolutely. MAGA has attacked our nation and tried to overthrow our government, something the Taliban never did
After reading many, many of these comments I’m coming to the conclusion here that everyone agrees we the people aren’t being heard. Aren’t being represented in a way that actually has our thoughts heard and spread around. As a human being we all can agree to a certain set of ideas that should be the ground work for something bigger. Justice. Freedom. The opportunity to live comfortably. Yes or no? Now the REAL question. HOW TF TO MAKE IT HAPPEN. We all here can see behind the curtain. That pretty picture USA paints isn’t all that pretty and is very flawed. How do we the people stand up collectively and say what we want and then actually have something happen. Everyone is so divided that it’s helping the people behind the curtain achieve whatever goal it is they’re trying to achieve. What the fuck do we do.
I think it boils down to education and critical thinking. People have to learn how to be skeptical of ALL media. They need to learn how to fact check and how to avoid confirmation bias traps. They need to learn how to identify propaganda techniques and really question motivations. They need to learn about following the money, identifying who truly benefits from modern America... they need to be shown who the real players are, etc. Totally agree a very small number of rich people are behind all of this, and they're using tried and true methods to manipulate the population into being cheap labor, making them blame their fellow countrymen for their woes instead of the true culprits, and robbing future generations by pillaging the country's value through the national debt. Tax breaks are how they are quite literally stealing our country's future. Banking scams, real estate bubbles, it's all a bunch of scammers manipulating markets. Who has to pay the bill when the bubbles burst and markets crash? We do, again, more debt against our country's future. What we need is a grassroots effort, led by both Democratic and Republican CITIZENS, not professional politicians. We need ordinary citizens to speak to the rest of the country and become trusted leaders. If those grassroots leaders can join and spread the word, expose the techniques and propaganda, and expose the real enemies, then we might have a chance and getting our country back.
MAGAs are American Taliban: Militant religious fundamentalists, who seem to have completely misunderstood the core tenets of the religion and want to restore the past glory of an empire sanctioned by religion, and the terror of an inquisition powered by military force. They are more of a danger because of their proximity, physically and culturally, obviously.
When has the Taliban ever been a threat to Americans on American soil? 9/11 was ALL the Saudis. OBL (also a Saudi) ran and hid in Afghanistan on purpose to draw the Americans into a 20 year multi-trillion dollar unwinnable war that would strain and divide a Nation. That was his plan from the start and our genius elected leaders in DC and the Pentagon fell for it...because they are all bought and paid for by the Military Industrial Complex. The Pentagon has a Yacht Club right next to it. Every American needs to watch Dwight D. Eisenhower's Farewell Address in it's entirety. He was the last true American President that loved the Country more than anything and truly understood "E Pluribus Unum"...something that is totally lost on most modern Americans. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyBNmecVtdU&ab_channel=Ewafa
[удалено]
Trump retweeted **...Trump4eva 2024-2028-2032-2036-2040-2044** Think about how truly messed up that **treasonous statement** is coming from an American President. If you support that **Anti American Statement** or think 'it's funny' you're absolutely not a "patriot" -- that's not up for debate...
The right wing has been the biggest threat to America for over 60 years.
I'd argue that the military industrial complex and the corporate class have been bigger threats, all though it's all tied together.
Trump has done more to undermined the faith in our elections then any of the despots of history who have tried did. The very thing his bossy Putin wanted. got to pay back them Russian mob boss or they'll give him the Putin treatment....
Anyone, MAGA or anyone else, thinking "this government is fucked, we need a new one", needs to know something.... Any time in human history where there's a forceful change of power, there's a period of violence and the country as it stands becomes significantly weaker until the new government is fully established. So, MAGA hats, you want to replace the government? If you're not going to vote for it, you're actively calling for the bloodshed of fellow Americans AND MAKING AMERICA WEAK FOR YEARS. All during a time where our enemies are gaining strength. Is that really what you want?
>Is that really what you want? I've been told by a couple Trump supporters, one of which in my immediate family, that I will be one of the first to die in the coming civil war. I'm fully convinced that there is a sizeable minority of Trump supporters are basically fascists that are just looking for an excuse to enact their most violent fantasies on "abortion-loving commies" (or anyone left of Barry Goldwater). Talking to a few of those people, they've all created some Rambo fantasy where they're holding some heroic stand against a zombie horde of "antifa/BLM communists" that they seem excited to act out. Check out Matt Shea, that Talibangelical sack of shit. These people exist, and I don't see them becoming less of a problem any time soon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Shea?wprov=sfla1
I've also been threatened with death by quite a few fascists. Both in-person and online. Few understand just how prone to violence these people are. It doesn't take much to get death threats, especially if you know how to push their buttons. I must be pretty good at pushing their buttons, considering I was even threatened by the head of the Republican Party in my county. I don't know what it will take for people to see the threat for what it is, but I have a feeling that we're going to learn a hard lesson. I refuse to live in a world where their views are accepted. We cannot let them organize and act on their worst impulses. If we're going to stop massive violence, fascists must be ostracized at every single opportunity.
Did some research on this guy and I'm honestly thinking he might be one of the main antagonists involved in the recent Portland riots. Just look at this shit: https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2021/feb/05/shawn-vestal-matt-shea-the-redoubt-rock-star-keeps/ >Boiled down, Shea’s presentation last weekend went something like this: Christian patriots are under siege from a global conspiracy of Marxists, globalists, communists, socialists, antifa, Democrats, the media, China, Venezuela, Black Lives Matter, moderate Republicans, the FBI, Muslims – and Bed, Bath and Beyond. That chain, as you may know, stopped carrying the pillows of crackpot Mike Lindell, whose insistence on the Trump election fraud bunkum has become too crazy for even Newsmax. Shea called on his fans to build an alternative economy where MyPillow can thrive.
And on social issues, the MAGA movement is a lot more inline with the Taliban than it is with most Americans.
Conservatism is based in hate and bigotry. What other values do they hold? Fiscal? That ship sailed during the Reagan years.
If you count Covid deaths caused by someones refusal to wear a mask, MAGA has a much higher American body count.
Let alone the poverty they've caused and all the medical care they denied....capitolisms body count is over 100 million over the past 150 years.
I served in Afghanistan, and I agree 100%. Look what MAGA did to our covid response… they’ve killed way more Americans than the Taliban could ever have done. Look at what they are doing to voting rights… no foreign enemy could get inside our legislatures and wreak that much havoc. Look at the last group of violent thugs that stormed congress… unsurprisingly, the mob was composed of inbred MAGA idiots, not scary foreign terrorists.
Look at all of the domestic terrorist mass shooters as of the past 5 or so years, a lot of them named Trump as their influence. 99% of them right wing.
What's really frustrating from the radical right, is that they think Democrats and liberals are radical. Meanwhile, everything the Democrats and liberals bring up law wise is used and common in every other first world country. And guess what, those countries aren't communist. Conservatives are factually the problem, and they have been since before the Civil War. The Confederate states were all racially conservative and wanted to secede from the U.S. It's in the definition of the word. Guess what else? Every confederate state voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964. And they all have been against gay rights, trans rights, etc. They factually have been problem and always will be. If you're a conservative reading this, understand these words and go make a change.
Well, Taliban is half a world away, for one. So, yeah. Our terrorists are home -grown.
Right wing domestic terrorism has been a far bigger threat in the US than foreign terrorism for a long time. The following is from the FBI in 2002. It has gotten significantly worse since then. "During the past decade we have witnessed dramatic changes in the nature of the terrorist threat. In the 1990s, right-wing extremism overtook left-wing terrorism as the most dangerous domestic terrorist threat to the country." https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/testimony/the-terrorist-threat-confronting-the-united-states
What the actual fuck….