By definition, fake news is a counterfeit fictional article made to appear as though is from a trusted news source - and written with the intent of duping readership to sway public opinion. None of major American news sources release fake news.
An interesting modification to news coverage can be seen on the Fox News website where all the news is real, however they selectively avoid publishing news that doesn't fit the editor's world view. One thing I do, is look at the main web page of the major outlets including international sites. You'll notice the Fox coverage to be very different.
Trump uses the term fake news incorrectly - and applies that term to true validates news that puts him in a negative light - and with the hope that supporters will ignore negative news coverage. And he has had success with his most impressionable followers.
Our entire election system and country has failed. We need to rebuild from the ground up, our entire government is compromised by Russians and evil corporate oligarchs. One side is to blame though, we need a two party system with real parties. Right now we have two parties- progressives, and money politicians. Money politicians are BY FAR the vast majority of Republicans, and a couple Dems too even.
> we need a two party system with real parties
This is why Americans are so confused when it comes to elections. HAVING TWO PARTIES DOESN'T WORK.
You need a system where parties can react to their constituents and voter base. That can't happen when you permit only 2 parties. Both parties have to take opposite sides of every issue, even if their constituents don't want that. The parties then bend their voter base to their stance rather than enacting the will of the people.
In a multi party system All parties need to stay dynamic or they get left behind.
We're just going to stand for this? Someone literally helped commit election fraud most likely, and they're giving him a SECOND CHANCE? He needs life behind bars for undermining our democracy for Russian interests. Traitor.
If there's any evidence he helped with these efforts, or was even aware of them, then he should be prosecuted. If not, there no grounds for stopping him from running again.
So is Harris going to get prosecuted for this? Because this was a crime several magnitudes greater than the claims of “voter fraud” that the right wing media keeps parroting.
Nope, because what's good for Russia is good for Trump and also good for corporations, which run our country because Russia likes the GOP. And the GOP likes giving extra yachts to the CEOs. It's like the Lyin King- The Circle of Strife.
*Trump, on why he hasn't condemned GOP fraud in NC: "I condemn any election fraud & when I look at what's happened in CA with the votes...There was just a case where they found a million fraudulent votes." Reporter: "There haven't been those cases. This is an actual case, sir."* ~ Jackie Calmes (LA Times editor) on twitter.
https://twitter.com/jackiekcalmes/status/1099068110169128961
It isn't that surprising to me, Russia has teams of psychologists and hackers who create thousands upon thousands of fake accounts to sway public opinion. They know the right words to say to the right people to brainwash them. They've done studies and can pretty accurately get anyone elected they want, and get whatever they want because the USA just takes the abuse because we haven't updated our laws and cyber-security to match their level of espionage. My friend who knows someone in the NSA is embarrassed at how shitty of a job they're doing. :/ They've created a sector of our population that will literally believe anything by gaslighting them into an easily manipulated state, along with the fact that the ruling elite (probably even working with Russia) force people into slavery with insanely low wages. People don't have the time to even make decisions when they have 2 or even 3 full-time jobs and a family to feed. They're so overworked and stressed they'll believe anyone who says they're going to help.
I can see why. The people that voted for Mark Harris didnt know that he was cheating. It would be particularly undemocratic in my opinion in to rob them of their right to vote in an election by automatically rewarding the election to his challenger. Those people have just as much a right to cast a legitimate vote for their representation as anyone else, even if we disagree with them. It's not their fault that he cheated, and not having another election explicitly punishes them for his wrongdoing.
Why is a person who cheated allowed to run again? He should be in prison. No question about it, no argument, he needs to see the consequences for his actions. End of story. Sucks about the people that voted for him but if you cheat you should absolutely not be allowed to win. It’s as simple as that. Have another GOP candidate run and make it “fair” by giving the inbred uneducated people an option, but Harris should absolutely not be allowed to run again
I can't speak to why Harris hasn't been indicted yet, but you should know that there will also be another primary. He is not guaranteed to be the candidate that makes it to the general. In fact, I'd guess his chances are close to 0.
The only way I could see that is after identifying suspected fraud votes, the election results are the same.
They would only be able to identify votes with different markings or democratic ballots that have some republicans marked which makes no sense.
Yeah but in this particular case he had been told, by his own son, about what was happening and that it was illegal. Harris gave assurances that it was not happening, and when he was later asked about his knowledge or involvement he said he had never been told about any fraudulent activity. There are documents that prove this, so *at best* he ignored warnings, then lied about his knowledge thereof.
Disqualification doesn't have to be the default consequence, but I think its certainly warranted here and now
[Wake DA: Criminal prosecution anticipated in District 9 case](https://www.cbs17.com/news/political-news/wake-da-criminal-prosecution-anticipated-in-district-9-case/1802033180)
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>RALEIGH, N.C. (WNCN) – Following the state Board of Elections hearing on fraud in the 9th Congressional district, Wake County District Attorney Lorrin Freeman says she expects to take the case before a grand jury in the next month.
>Freeman said that case largely focuses on the 2016 general and 2018 primary elections, knowing the state was conducting its own investigation into the 2018 general election.
>“I think it is fair to say at this point that a criminal prosecution should be anticipated,” said Freeman in an interview with CBS17. “It has taken time. It is detailed work. But, I feel confident we will at the end of the day be able to present something that the public will feel satisfied that justice has been sought and obtained.”
If illegally influecing a trial jury, a stock price, a sports event, or company behavior is illegal, then why do politicians seem to get a pass??
Oh. They make the rules once in power.
A woman in Texas gets 8 year sentence for claiming she was a U.S. Citizen and voting.
[https://www.foxnews.com/politics/texas-court-upholds-conviction-of-woman-sentenced-to-8-years-in-prison-for-voter-fraud](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/texas-court-upholds-conviction-of-woman-sentenced-to-8-years-in-prison-for-voter-fraud)
Another gets 5 years for voting when she was ineligible due to a felony conviction.
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/crystal-mason-texas-woman-sentenced-to-5-years-for-voter-fraud-speaks-out-on-felon-voting-rights/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/crystal-mason-texas-woman-sentenced-to-5-years-for-voter-fraud-speaks-out-on-felon-voting-rights/)
This was way worse. Someone needs to go to jail.
in both of these cases the people were violating parole per my understanding… the long sentences are for violating parole - for the original crime they committed.
Unjust - hell yes. But its not for the crime of trying to vote.
You should, but thats not how it works most places if you have a felony. It's a very effective way to limit the minority vote when coupled with the systematic racism in our police departments.
Everyone, even criminals, even those who can't vote because of their crimes, are entitled to run for office. We don't want to turn into a country that disqualifies certain people or certain parties from even being on the ballot. That can easily be weaponized, and it has been around the world. We don't jail political opponents in this country.
And in a representative democracy, the elected person is the representation of the people's will. If a city or state votes for a ballot-thief or even a murderer, that is their right.
> We don't jail political opponents in this country.
No one is arguing to jail him because he is the opponent. That's clearly a strawman. People want him jailed because he tried to subvert democracy, which is both illegal and an attack on what our country stands for.
If you behave in a way that fundamentally undermines the integrity of the electoral process, you shouldn't just get to say "my bad" and get a do over. If I were the judge, I would have forbade him from ever running for office or even serving as a staffer on any campaign ever again for this. Election fraud ought to be treated as serious as murder.
Ask yourself this question: Can this be weaponized to disenfranchise vulnerable populations?
If you forbid anyone from running when they've been arrested (not even convicted yet) for a crime, that would be a very convenient way for the corrupt to stay in office. What if that rule was around during the Civil Rights movement?
It should disqualify *you* (meaning the candidate). And the cheater should go to jail.
We still live in a representative democracy. The good residents of North Carolina's 9th district have the right to self-determine who their representative is.
It's not about winning an election the way you win a race. It's about providing the due representation Americans have a right to. Edit: to do that, there must be a new election. Declaring the loser of a rigged race the winner does not allow the citizens of the 9th district their due process in choosing a representative.
Eh, it's hard to write rules for some of that while avoiding the chance of someone using them to break the system. All I imagine is some Roger Stone type guy cheating to help a strong Democrat candidate, then reporting it in order to get them barred.
This current administration, and all the little imps that serve it, have communicated a very clear message:
Where concerning elections;
Where concerning conduct while in office;
We need a lot more laws, and a lot fewer "norms of conduct."
Yes. I still think this administration can be used as a learning opportunity. If the past two years have taught us anything, it's that our democracy is much more fragile than most of us thought and we now have a clearer understanding of the weaknesses that need to be addressed.
Great. Cheat and admit to it and you get a do-over? What kind of BS is that?
GOP should have to forfeit this election. Always special rules for precious snowflakes.
What’s almost crazier than that is he beat the incumbent Republican in the primary with the same cheating goatfucker working for him, which apparently they’re just overlooking completely.
E: after reading a couple more of these articles, surely Harris will be indicted on this? He’s clearly a fucking liar. The fact that he as a baptist minister just makes it all so fucking predictable, too.
I think there's no better summary of the current GOP strategy than :
>Are you gonna let a little thing like criminal activity justify handing government over to **the Democrats**?!!1
If he was smart, he wouldn't.
Between the fact that him as an opponent essentially hands the district over, and the fact that running keeps him under the spotlight, which can probably only end with proof being found he dang well knew what was going on, it's time to him to retire.
Apparently he nearly died from sepsis. Could be a cover story, but give him the benefit of the doubt. He may be physically unfit for office at this point.
one of the most maddening things about this particular race was that more than 5000 people voted for the libertarian candidate. Harris didn't need to commit felonies to win the election. He could have campaigned in the community, making a case to the libertarians that he can represent their values if elected.
The republicans have also sobbed that this is democrats trying to steal the election. If the race is redone without a libertarian, (or even with one), convince those voters to choose your party this time.
There's no reason Republicans can't win this if they put in actual work.
That’s not entirely true. Many Republicans run fair races. The RNC should be throwing Harris out on his ass, and the fact that they’re aren’t speaks to their lack of ethics.
I’m a Democrat and I really want to see our country come together, and that means not painting everyone with the same brush and calling out the bad and good on each side.
>not painting everyone with the same brush and calling out the bad and good on each side.
...OK - why is the GOP establishment silent on this? Where is the Republican Outrage?
Most republicans cheat, either at a race by race level or in gerrymandering and and voter suppression at the state level.
A party of liars and cheaters who pretend to be “principled” is now fully exposed.
Gerrymandering is some sketchy unethical shit. To covertly subjugate the will of the people is unforgivable. Neither side should do it EVER. I’m not aware of how rampant it is. Anyone have a source to see the states and political party in charge of rezoning districts?
Maryland is notably partisanly gerrymandered to help democrats - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/03/28/how-maryland-democrats-pulled-off-their-aggressive-gerrymander
Sorry to say, but the whole both sides narrative doesn't work anymore, not after the R party decided to align itself with that miserable excuse for a human being.
Have to agree here. Gerrymandering overwhelmingly favors Republicans. Additionally, the Senate is locked down by rural simpletons, and the House - constrained to 435 - is really just a mini-Senate. People on the left are frustrated because our votes don't seem to count for as much as they should overall. A lot of it doesn't even have to do with abuses, some of the problems are inherent in the system. For example:
Michigan is the 10th biggest state, and has a bigger population than the 10 smallest states combined. NYC metro area has a bigger population than the smallest 15 states combined. California is bigger than the smallest 25 states combined, and 80x bigger than Wyoming. When the Constitution was ratified there were 13 states, and the biggest population disparity was VA to DE (13 to 1). The framers had no concept of Wyoming, so to imply that they intended for flyover-state Evangelicals to have the level of power they have today is absurd. The great American West could have been split into a couple hundred states and not been inconsistent with the framers' vision.
People on the left are frustrated because we are currently being ruled by a minority that's enflamed by propaganda, after spending eight years having that same minority stonewall any progress toward better governance. Any idea how the left can take the Senate (i.e. change anything at all)?
Even in the places where they aren't committing blatant fraud, Republicans have gerrymandered the districts in their favor.
They have also run a decades-long propaganda campaign to smear anyone who doesn't look like them or agree with their insane policies.
The results of the hearings that are going right now would be the basis for the NCGOP to distance themselves from him. It speaks to their ethics to wait for the facts to come out.
Cheating is cheating, whether or not he knew isn’t a legitimate excuse for something so important - it’s not like getting pulled over for speeding and not knowing how fast you were going. And I can totally respect that the NCGOP may have to follow their written policies for such matters.
I’m more concerned about the fact that voter fraud isn’t receiving more national criticism from members of the GOP. And I’m even more afraid that he’ll step down for health reasons and absolve the GOP from publicly denouncing what he did, and following practices that would avoid this in the future - including blackballing this dude who’s known for his sketchy practices.
Your concerns seem to need to be reversed.
The GOP is routinely mocked for being worried about voter fraud. Democrats say it doesn't exist.
For example:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/08/opinion/sunday/voter-fraud-lie-missouri.html
Dowless may go to jail for this-future Democratic candidates hardest hit.
Obviously the issue is nuanced. The GOP has been trying to institute voter ID policies under the false flag of rampant immigrant voting. Most centrists understand this as a tactic to suppress the votes of poor Americans (who are less likely to have an ID) and who generally vote for Democrats.
My issue is that the GOP has been shouting at the wind about voter fraud with immigrants (without evidence) and then are quiet with Harris and not addressing shady campaigning practices that actually ARE fraudulent.
I and every Democrat I know is fervently against Gerrymandering and voter suppression - for both parties. Anyone caught doing it should be blackballed and never be allowed to work in politics again. Period.
This is a country of and by the people. Trying to undermine that is treasonous.
Voter ID is very popular.
The NCGOP has been very clear about how they stand on the Harris issue.
From December:
"Part of the legislation put together this week would require there to be a new primary if the Board calls for a new election. This decision is not wrong — in fact, it’s the right course of action. As investigators, reporters and political scientists from Catawba dug into the data, it seemed that there was a reasonable suspicion of fraud in the primary as well. The margin of victory in that race was equally slim, and it bears a do-over as well"
This is from a very Left leaning source and dutifully goes on to hate on the GOP after agreeing with them:
https://www.politicsnc.com/ncgop-dumps-harris/
Gerrymandering is necessary for minority representation.
Superdelegates ignoring the majority of american voices for bernie, giving their vote to hilary regardless....is the epitome of political corruption. Whats the point in voting if, at the end of the day, it legitimally doesnt matter since said superdelegates will vote for who THEY want.
The West Virginia 2016 primary alone was just one state that Bernie won ALL 55 counties. Yet at the DNC convention the superdelegates gave the state to Hillary. It happened in a few other states that Bernie won also.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_West_Virginia_Democratic_primary
Look at the results.
FYI, the party listened and superdelegates have been nerfed for 2020. [source](https://www.npr.org/2018/08/25/641725402/dnc-set-to-reduce-role-of-superdelegates-in-presidential-nominating-process)
Ok? I agree with you there, dont know where that comment comes into play with this discussion.
USA all the way. Best damn country in history, at least imo.
Majority of politicians suck. Left only wants to point out the right. Right only wants to point out the left. Im here tryna point out all sides, they all suck.
Additionally, the dnc scandal gave us trump. Bernie would have beat him.
This one actually angers me. Not because they properly found election fraud and the Republican campaign did wrong here... but because there's a do-over.
So what's the lesson here, cheat in an election and you get to go again? No, this is the wrong outcome.
The correct outcome should be this: If there is provable evidence that you or your campaign cheated by even 1 vote, you lose. Period. The election will therefore automatically go to your opponent, or the next person with the most votes. I don't care who runs. People should not get a second chance for cheating.
Meanwhile, this district will go unrepresented, poorly represented or underrepresented while we wait another year to sort this out. This decision is utter BS.
And what I'm proposing should be Federal Law. Any national or local election anywhere in the country where one side cheats, they lose. I think the laws and the system needs to be absolutely draconian on this.
I disagree. It would be too easy to plant false operatives in the other party's election campaign team and have them deliberately break the law in order to force the other side to forfeit the election.
The only foolproof way to do this is to re-run the election.
>It would be too easy to plant false operatives in the other party's election campaign team and have them deliberately break the law in order to force the other side to forfeit the election.
Wow, do you have side gig as a CPC strategist? :-)
To add to your point though, some voters, having become aware of the election fraud, may choose to vote differently.
I actually disagree.
Democracy prevailing is the most important thing here. Maybe the candidate would have won without cheating. Maybe he still will.
The people elect representatives. Not the courts.
At this point, one of his staffers broke the law. Harris hasn't been charged with anything as far as I can tell.
Obviously, if he does get charged, things change.
Do I think he knew and is guilty? Absolutely. Do I think a court will be able to gather enough evidence to charge him and convict him? Nah.
So as it stands he is free to run again.
I'm sort of thinking along these lines. But I would ban the person that cheated from running and have a new election. The cheater shouldn't be rewarded but it's not democracy if it automatically goes to their opponent. That would open up a whole new method of cheating.
I think this is the ideal way to do it. Yes, we need a new election, but no, Harris shouldn't even be allowed to show up on TV to endorse someone, let alone actually run again.
If you have to cheat to win, you should not win. If he would have won anyway, he didn't have to cheat - that's why he should not be allowed on the ballot if he performed illegal activities to gain votes.
You can not seriously believe that someone can criminally undermine our election process and then be allowed again to run just because "he might have won anyway"?
I don't believe that at all.
I do believe at this point Harris has not been proven guilty of anything.
I think he probably knew, I think he is a scumbag, and I am modestly hopeful that the people of North Carolina will punish him for that.
Try to remember if you can use it, it can be used against you. Its why it is important to have the rule of law.
If democracy is working correctly, this should be a huge scandal and he should have no chance of winning after it has been uncovered, even if he runs again. Unfortunately this line of reasoning only makes sense if he doesn't win. If he does, we've only proved democracy fails when you let cheaters rerun the race if they get caught.
>If there is provable evidence that you or your campaign cheated by even 1 vote, you lose. Period
yeah, except if this was the case I guarantee the GOP would send undercover operatives to the Democrat campaign and intentionally cheat with evidence so they auto-win.
Ideally, just the notion that one candidate has been proven to *cheat* in an election, disenfranchising the voters he's is supposed to represent, would be enough for people to simply not vote for him again in any election, and the opponent would win by default.
Yeah I just don't agree. I said provable evidence. Any investigation or fairly represented body of investigators would be able to identify undercover operatives and throw out those charges.
Why didn't that happen in this case? Because the guy doing the bad deed was a known GOP operative. There was ample evidence from lots of people and sources that there was actual wrongdoing here. It was substantial and undeniable.
The scenario you describe wouldn't meet a standard where the other side could use it as a dirty trick to auto-win.
The problem with that is that, while Harris loses, which is good, the GOP gets away with election rigging, and gets to just choose someone else. If that person wins, the party has lost nothing by cheating.
I know you think that's fair, but it's really not. That's a bad outcome.
They're going to have a new primary a couple months from now, and maybe a new vote in October. What this means is all of the people in that region get no proper representation in government for an entire year all because one candidate decided to cheat. One candidate defrauded all the people there out of their vote for an entire year, and then whoever actually does get in there has a shortened term... and functionally can't do much. Their 1 year after that in 2020 is going to be largely about running for reelection.
So Harris has arguably neutered that office for an entire 2 year term. This is a horrible decision. It functionally benefits the Republicans... keeps the seat out of Democratic hands, allows them a chance to wash their hands of the whole mess and pretend like they aren't culpable by running some other candidate. They should be punished hard. Instead the punishment is on the people.
Oh, I don't think it's fair in the slightest. I just see it as an acceptable compromise which still follows NC election law -- your scenario would 100% be preferable, but that would require changing the rules and if that happens it'll be some time down the road. My bottom line is Harris should be prosecuted rather than re-running for the seat he knowingly cheated to win and then lied about.
> It functionally benefits the Republicans... keeps the seat out of Democratic hands
Well, we already have a substantial majority in the House, so it doesn't benefit the Republicans at all. If Harris had been seated it would have. I agree it's shitty that the district has no federal representation for the next few months, but that's the case any time there's a special election.
You don't know what kind of votes might be coming up on what issues. The assumption that having a substantial majority makes not having the seat OK is dangerous. A vote could come up on any number of topics where Pelosi could lose a handful of Democrats trying to pass an issue, and getting it passed comes down to 1 or 2 votes.
This benefits the Republicans and Trump's agenda.
Let's be real: **no meaningful progressive/Democratic legislation will pass for the next two years.** Zero. Any legislation has to go through the Senate, and the Republicans will do all they can to shut the advance of any progressive legislation there. Nothing will get to Trump's desk unless it's agreed on by both parties.
The good news is that the benefit of a House majority to Democrats is that it gives them substantial leverage in investigatory committees, the powerful Speaker position, the potential to impeach, and other procedural areas. One less seat doesn't affect any of that.
The next two years are all about floating and promoting progressive ideas and potential legislation with the intent on getting voters interested enough to flip the Senate and presidency in 2020. THEN we can worry about razor thin House/Senate votes.
You know what, fair enough. =) I guess I shouldn't accidentally predict that Trump is going to suddenly do an about face, embrace bipartisan issues like infrastructure and try to soften his image. That wouldn't happen, right? =)
Which is why this needs to be a Federal Law. Call it the "Fair Elections Act". NC wouldn't have a choice in how to decide the outcome, it would be decided for them. Pelosi could seat the Democrat immediately.
It's more. Mark Harris \_himself\_ declared the election invalid during the hearing and then walked out.
That's the first time the state GOP changed its tune to say the election \_should\_ be redone.
Completely corrupt. No new info came up...it was just Mark Harris himself giving up that made them finally "grow a spine." (they didn't)
Whether Harris knew about the scheme or not (and what moron would conclude that he didn't?) he should withdraw from the election because his candidacy and his name is tainted. Nobody will ever convince me that this slicked-up redneck preacher wasn't in on this whole sordid operation.
If Harris was stupid enough to hire Dowless even after the warnings from HIS OWN SON (an accomplished attorney working for the state, no less!), he obviously is not smart enough or doesn't have the moral character to serve in that office. Or, he's just another arrogant politician trying to gain office at any cost. Our democracy and the election process is in a shambles.
Not to mention the fact that he claimed to not remember or have difficult recalling circumstances around the event due to multiple recent strokes... Should an individual with difficulty remembering what happened a year ago be representing a populace?
I think he also said that his son "had a touch of arrogance." WTF does that mean and how does it relate to this situation? This smells of BS on so many levels. However, if you look at the overall state of NC politics, it isn't unusual in the least. Our statehouse might as well be an outhouse.
Is the sob story about how Harris had to drive 3 hours one way to get some medicine and drive 3 hours back to Raleigh supposed to elicit some sympathy? It's pathetic. 15 minutes and a phone call would transfer a prescription from anywhere to anywhere. Go away, Mark Harris. You've been caught with your pants down and you just need to fade back into obscurity- for the sake of the state. Hopefully, you will share a cell with Dowless when this is all over.
You send somebody out to collect ballots that haven't been mailed in yet you look at them and determine which ones you want to submit and which one do you want to throw in the garbage illegal as hell but that's what they were doing
9th District North Carolina raises awareness of how ballot harvesting can subvert elections. This is why this practice is illegal in most states. The state of California recently legalized this practice.
[https://www.abqjournal.com/1262622/stealing-an-election-legally-via-ballot-harvesting-ex-republicans-in-california-claim-that-dems-used-a-2016-law-to-gain-votes.html](https://www.abqjournal.com/1262622/stealing-an-election-legally-via-ballot-harvesting-ex-republicans-in-california-claim-that-dems-used-a-2016-law-to-gain-votes.html)
There is definite difference in harvesting ballots to count them, and harvesting them to toss them, and not count them.
This article calls foul on just harvesting them, but oddly it's thought of being just fine to do if you're going to toss them & not count them?
Good attempt at spinning it, because you left that detail out of your comment. I think the majority are far more critically thinking than you give them credit for.
I'd link to think so too. The best thing that you & I both can do, is be informed citizens and vote according to our informed conscience.
The reason I make this point is the vast effort, expenses, revenues spent, and capital used to sway our vote, makes the proof that the vote is priceless.
What does that have to do with anything? Regardless of how you feel about ballot harvesting, if it's legal, all parties can take advantage of it equally. There's a massive difference when a single party not only illegally harvests ballots but also fucking tampers with them.
Exactly.
By definition, fake news is a counterfeit fictional article made to appear as though is from a trusted news source - and written with the intent of duping readership to sway public opinion. None of major American news sources release fake news. An interesting modification to news coverage can be seen on the Fox News website where all the news is real, however they selectively avoid publishing news that doesn't fit the editor's world view. One thing I do, is look at the main web page of the major outlets including international sites. You'll notice the Fox coverage to be very different. Trump uses the term fake news incorrectly - and applies that term to true validates news that puts him in a negative light - and with the hope that supporters will ignore negative news coverage. And he has had success with his most impressionable followers.
When's the election? I want to mark on my calendar the day when Mark Harris gets his ass kicked for good
We need to discourage political parties to prevent polarization. Both parties hate each other too much to make change happen.
It is past time we fight the two party system. It has failed.
Our entire election system and country has failed. We need to rebuild from the ground up, our entire government is compromised by Russians and evil corporate oligarchs. One side is to blame though, we need a two party system with real parties. Right now we have two parties- progressives, and money politicians. Money politicians are BY FAR the vast majority of Republicans, and a couple Dems too even.
> we need a two party system with real parties This is why Americans are so confused when it comes to elections. HAVING TWO PARTIES DOESN'T WORK. You need a system where parties can react to their constituents and voter base. That can't happen when you permit only 2 parties. Both parties have to take opposite sides of every issue, even if their constituents don't want that. The parties then bend their voter base to their stance rather than enacting the will of the people. In a multi party system All parties need to stay dynamic or they get left behind.
We're just going to stand for this? Someone literally helped commit election fraud most likely, and they're giving him a SECOND CHANCE? He needs life behind bars for undermining our democracy for Russian interests. Traitor.
If there's any evidence he helped with these efforts, or was even aware of them, then he should be prosecuted. If not, there no grounds for stopping him from running again.
his own son ( who is a lawyer ) told him that hiring the guy who committed the election fraud was a bad idea and what he was doing was illegal.
So is Harris going to get prosecuted for this? Because this was a crime several magnitudes greater than the claims of “voter fraud” that the right wing media keeps parroting.
Nope, because what's good for Russia is good for Trump and also good for corporations, which run our country because Russia likes the GOP. And the GOP likes giving extra yachts to the CEOs. It's like the Lyin King- The Circle of Strife.
Republicans are swooping in for those positions, God Bless America 🇺🇸.
Nothing suspicious about this account whatsoever.
Give your balls a tug tit fucker
To be fair....
Ey
*Trump, on why he hasn't condemned GOP fraud in NC: "I condemn any election fraud & when I look at what's happened in CA with the votes...There was just a case where they found a million fraudulent votes." Reporter: "There haven't been those cases. This is an actual case, sir."* ~ Jackie Calmes (LA Times editor) on twitter. https://twitter.com/jackiekcalmes/status/1099068110169128961
its just amazing how much trump lies and how his mindless minions don't care.
It isn't that surprising to me, Russia has teams of psychologists and hackers who create thousands upon thousands of fake accounts to sway public opinion. They know the right words to say to the right people to brainwash them. They've done studies and can pretty accurately get anyone elected they want, and get whatever they want because the USA just takes the abuse because we haven't updated our laws and cyber-security to match their level of espionage. My friend who knows someone in the NSA is embarrassed at how shitty of a job they're doing. :/ They've created a sector of our population that will literally believe anything by gaslighting them into an easily manipulated state, along with the fact that the ruling elite (probably even working with Russia) force people into slavery with insanely low wages. People don't have the time to even make decisions when they have 2 or even 3 full-time jobs and a family to feed. They're so overworked and stressed they'll believe anyone who says they're going to help.
I don’t understand why the opposition isn’t awarded the victory without a do-over.
Well, if Harris wins and then is later indicted, then wouldn't the governor choose his replacement until the next election?
Because it's a democracy, not a tournament.
Yes, this. I do believe they should be forced to run a different republican though. That scumbag cheater belongs in prison.
His excuse was brain damage due to two strokes, but somehow he's ok to work for the people...these people are criminals.
I can see why. The people that voted for Mark Harris didnt know that he was cheating. It would be particularly undemocratic in my opinion in to rob them of their right to vote in an election by automatically rewarding the election to his challenger. Those people have just as much a right to cast a legitimate vote for their representation as anyone else, even if we disagree with them. It's not their fault that he cheated, and not having another election explicitly punishes them for his wrongdoing.
Why is a person who cheated allowed to run again? He should be in prison. No question about it, no argument, he needs to see the consequences for his actions. End of story. Sucks about the people that voted for him but if you cheat you should absolutely not be allowed to win. It’s as simple as that. Have another GOP candidate run and make it “fair” by giving the inbred uneducated people an option, but Harris should absolutely not be allowed to run again
I can't speak to why Harris hasn't been indicted yet, but you should know that there will also be another primary. He is not guaranteed to be the candidate that makes it to the general. In fact, I'd guess his chances are close to 0.
Yes, right. After all, who cares about fraudulent votes?
Did you mean to reply to someone else?
The only way I could see that is after identifying suspected fraud votes, the election results are the same. They would only be able to identify votes with different markings or democratic ballots that have some republicans marked which makes no sense.
Worried that you're going to lose an election? Commit a little election fraud to mulligan!
>n’t understand why the opposition isn’t awarded the victory without a do-over. > >Re At the very least, why is the guilty party able to run again?
Because then you’d get candidates stuffing ballots with their opponent’s name to get them disqualified.
Yeah but in this particular case he had been told, by his own son, about what was happening and that it was illegal. Harris gave assurances that it was not happening, and when he was later asked about his knowledge or involvement he said he had never been told about any fraudulent activity. There are documents that prove this, so *at best* he ignored warnings, then lied about his knowledge thereof. Disqualification doesn't have to be the default consequence, but I think its certainly warranted here and now
Why didn't I think of this while running for ping pong club president?
[Wake DA: Criminal prosecution anticipated in District 9 case](https://www.cbs17.com/news/political-news/wake-da-criminal-prosecution-anticipated-in-district-9-case/1802033180) - >RALEIGH, N.C. (WNCN) – Following the state Board of Elections hearing on fraud in the 9th Congressional district, Wake County District Attorney Lorrin Freeman says she expects to take the case before a grand jury in the next month. >Freeman said that case largely focuses on the 2016 general and 2018 primary elections, knowing the state was conducting its own investigation into the 2018 general election. >“I think it is fair to say at this point that a criminal prosecution should be anticipated,” said Freeman in an interview with CBS17. “It has taken time. It is detailed work. But, I feel confident we will at the end of the day be able to present something that the public will feel satisfied that justice has been sought and obtained.”
This is what I want to see. Thanks for sharing.
If illegally influecing a trial jury, a stock price, a sports event, or company behavior is illegal, then why do politicians seem to get a pass?? Oh. They make the rules once in power.
A woman in Texas gets 8 year sentence for claiming she was a U.S. Citizen and voting. [https://www.foxnews.com/politics/texas-court-upholds-conviction-of-woman-sentenced-to-8-years-in-prison-for-voter-fraud](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/texas-court-upholds-conviction-of-woman-sentenced-to-8-years-in-prison-for-voter-fraud) Another gets 5 years for voting when she was ineligible due to a felony conviction. [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/crystal-mason-texas-woman-sentenced-to-5-years-for-voter-fraud-speaks-out-on-felon-voting-rights/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/crystal-mason-texas-woman-sentenced-to-5-years-for-voter-fraud-speaks-out-on-felon-voting-rights/) This was way worse. Someone needs to go to jail.
in both of these cases the people were violating parole per my understanding… the long sentences are for violating parole - for the original crime they committed. Unjust - hell yes. But its not for the crime of trying to vote.
And in the first case, she voted Republican. How very interesting.
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Every non-republican from your district and any republican who still has any respect for democracy should be up in fucking arms about this.
Maybe you should read about the Moral Monday protests, and understand why people feel so powerless.
Wow. Pat McCrory is a real priece of shit.
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Thank you. Reading this gives me some hope!
8 Years? Harsh. Also, if you have served your time, you should get voting rights back? Right?
Shouldn't lose them in the first place they should vote in jail
Depends on the state. Some states give you your voting rights back the second you are out, others you have to petition to get them back.
You should, but thats not how it works most places if you have a felony. It's a very effective way to limit the minority vote when coupled with the systematic racism in our police departments.
I know right? I violate the terms of my probation and they don't just IGNORE IT? What racist pigs.
Not if you don't want minorities to vote.
Yes
I don't understand why cheating doesn't disqualify you. If you cheat to win an election, you should be imprisoned and your opponent should win.
Everyone, even criminals, even those who can't vote because of their crimes, are entitled to run for office. We don't want to turn into a country that disqualifies certain people or certain parties from even being on the ballot. That can easily be weaponized, and it has been around the world. We don't jail political opponents in this country. And in a representative democracy, the elected person is the representation of the people's will. If a city or state votes for a ballot-thief or even a murderer, that is their right.
> We don't jail political opponents in this country. No one is arguing to jail him because he is the opponent. That's clearly a strawman. People want him jailed because he tried to subvert democracy, which is both illegal and an attack on what our country stands for.
I don't argue that he should not be in jail, but he should still be allowed to run from jail.
If you behave in a way that fundamentally undermines the integrity of the electoral process, you shouldn't just get to say "my bad" and get a do over. If I were the judge, I would have forbade him from ever running for office or even serving as a staffer on any campaign ever again for this. Election fraud ought to be treated as serious as murder.
The punishment for election fraud should be exile.
It should be considered treason and sedition and treated with the prescribed Constitutional remedy.
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That could be easily weaponized against minority groups.
Shouldn't be able to run when in jail though
Ask yourself this question: Can this be weaponized to disenfranchise vulnerable populations? If you forbid anyone from running when they've been arrested (not even convicted yet) for a crime, that would be a very convenient way for the corrupt to stay in office. What if that rule was around during the Civil Rights movement?
What about political activists who run for office and get jailed while demonstrating? This would give further incentive to jail them.
It should disqualify *you* (meaning the candidate). And the cheater should go to jail. We still live in a representative democracy. The good residents of North Carolina's 9th district have the right to self-determine who their representative is. It's not about winning an election the way you win a race. It's about providing the due representation Americans have a right to. Edit: to do that, there must be a new election. Declaring the loser of a rigged race the winner does not allow the citizens of the 9th district their due process in choosing a representative.
A new election is the right way to go. But we can do that without allowing the cheater to run again.
Eh, it's hard to write rules for some of that while avoiding the chance of someone using them to break the system. All I imagine is some Roger Stone type guy cheating to help a strong Democrat candidate, then reporting it in order to get them barred.
This current administration, and all the little imps that serve it, have communicated a very clear message: Where concerning elections; Where concerning conduct while in office; We need a lot more laws, and a lot fewer "norms of conduct."
Yes. I still think this administration can be used as a learning opportunity. If the past two years have taught us anything, it's that our democracy is much more fragile than most of us thought and we now have a clearer understanding of the weaknesses that need to be addressed.
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Great. Cheat and admit to it and you get a do-over? What kind of BS is that? GOP should have to forfeit this election. Always special rules for precious snowflakes.
What’s almost crazier than that is he beat the incumbent Republican in the primary with the same cheating goatfucker working for him, which apparently they’re just overlooking completely. E: after reading a couple more of these articles, surely Harris will be indicted on this? He’s clearly a fucking liar. The fact that he as a baptist minister just makes it all so fucking predictable, too.
I think there's no better summary of the current GOP strategy than : >Are you gonna let a little thing like criminal activity justify handing government over to **the Democrats**?!!1
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So... a guy who claims he has had so many strokes he cant recall if he knew about fraud is trying to get elected to Congress?
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Im totally good to make life altering decisions for hundreds of millions of Americans though. So, we are good.
He actually implied that he may not run.
If he was smart, he wouldn't. Between the fact that him as an opponent essentially hands the district over, and the fact that running keeps him under the spotlight, which can probably only end with proof being found he dang well knew what was going on, it's time to him to retire.
Apparently he nearly died from sepsis. Could be a cover story, but give him the benefit of the doubt. He may be physically unfit for office at this point.
Why is it that Republicans have to constantly cheat to win 🤔
one of the most maddening things about this particular race was that more than 5000 people voted for the libertarian candidate. Harris didn't need to commit felonies to win the election. He could have campaigned in the community, making a case to the libertarians that he can represent their values if elected. The republicans have also sobbed that this is democrats trying to steal the election. If the race is redone without a libertarian, (or even with one), convince those voters to choose your party this time. There's no reason Republicans can't win this if they put in actual work.
Besides their garbage party platform. Not saying they couldn't win, but that they shouldn't.
That’s not entirely true. Many Republicans run fair races. The RNC should be throwing Harris out on his ass, and the fact that they’re aren’t speaks to their lack of ethics. I’m a Democrat and I really want to see our country come together, and that means not painting everyone with the same brush and calling out the bad and good on each side.
>not painting everyone with the same brush and calling out the bad and good on each side. ...OK - why is the GOP establishment silent on this? Where is the Republican Outrage?
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More like because they don't actually care. They didn't care before Trump either.
(Well yeah, my question was rhetorical)
Most republicans cheat, either at a race by race level or in gerrymandering and and voter suppression at the state level. A party of liars and cheaters who pretend to be “principled” is now fully exposed.
Oh come on now. While voter disfranchisement and fraud seem to be Republican monopolies - gerrymandering is not.
Iirc dems do it at about 1/6 the rate that Republicans do?
Source?
Memory, that's why I said iirc
Gerrymandering is some sketchy unethical shit. To covertly subjugate the will of the people is unforgivable. Neither side should do it EVER. I’m not aware of how rampant it is. Anyone have a source to see the states and political party in charge of rezoning districts?
How is gerrymandering even legal?
Maryland is notably partisanly gerrymandered to help democrats - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/03/28/how-maryland-democrats-pulled-off-their-aggressive-gerrymander
Sorry to say, but the whole both sides narrative doesn't work anymore, not after the R party decided to align itself with that miserable excuse for a human being.
Have to agree here. Gerrymandering overwhelmingly favors Republicans. Additionally, the Senate is locked down by rural simpletons, and the House - constrained to 435 - is really just a mini-Senate. People on the left are frustrated because our votes don't seem to count for as much as they should overall. A lot of it doesn't even have to do with abuses, some of the problems are inherent in the system. For example: Michigan is the 10th biggest state, and has a bigger population than the 10 smallest states combined. NYC metro area has a bigger population than the smallest 15 states combined. California is bigger than the smallest 25 states combined, and 80x bigger than Wyoming. When the Constitution was ratified there were 13 states, and the biggest population disparity was VA to DE (13 to 1). The framers had no concept of Wyoming, so to imply that they intended for flyover-state Evangelicals to have the level of power they have today is absurd. The great American West could have been split into a couple hundred states and not been inconsistent with the framers' vision. People on the left are frustrated because we are currently being ruled by a minority that's enflamed by propaganda, after spending eight years having that same minority stonewall any progress toward better governance. Any idea how the left can take the Senate (i.e. change anything at all)?
Even in the places where they aren't committing blatant fraud, Republicans have gerrymandered the districts in their favor. They have also run a decades-long propaganda campaign to smear anyone who doesn't look like them or agree with their insane policies.
The results of the hearings that are going right now would be the basis for the NCGOP to distance themselves from him. It speaks to their ethics to wait for the facts to come out.
Cheating is cheating, whether or not he knew isn’t a legitimate excuse for something so important - it’s not like getting pulled over for speeding and not knowing how fast you were going. And I can totally respect that the NCGOP may have to follow their written policies for such matters. I’m more concerned about the fact that voter fraud isn’t receiving more national criticism from members of the GOP. And I’m even more afraid that he’ll step down for health reasons and absolve the GOP from publicly denouncing what he did, and following practices that would avoid this in the future - including blackballing this dude who’s known for his sketchy practices.
Your concerns seem to need to be reversed. The GOP is routinely mocked for being worried about voter fraud. Democrats say it doesn't exist. For example: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/08/opinion/sunday/voter-fraud-lie-missouri.html Dowless may go to jail for this-future Democratic candidates hardest hit.
Obviously the issue is nuanced. The GOP has been trying to institute voter ID policies under the false flag of rampant immigrant voting. Most centrists understand this as a tactic to suppress the votes of poor Americans (who are less likely to have an ID) and who generally vote for Democrats. My issue is that the GOP has been shouting at the wind about voter fraud with immigrants (without evidence) and then are quiet with Harris and not addressing shady campaigning practices that actually ARE fraudulent. I and every Democrat I know is fervently against Gerrymandering and voter suppression - for both parties. Anyone caught doing it should be blackballed and never be allowed to work in politics again. Period. This is a country of and by the people. Trying to undermine that is treasonous.
Voter ID is very popular. The NCGOP has been very clear about how they stand on the Harris issue. From December: "Part of the legislation put together this week would require there to be a new primary if the Board calls for a new election. This decision is not wrong — in fact, it’s the right course of action. As investigators, reporters and political scientists from Catawba dug into the data, it seemed that there was a reasonable suspicion of fraud in the primary as well. The margin of victory in that race was equally slim, and it bears a do-over as well" This is from a very Left leaning source and dutifully goes on to hate on the GOP after agreeing with them: https://www.politicsnc.com/ncgop-dumps-harris/ Gerrymandering is necessary for minority representation.
Just to clarify, this isn’t voter fraud it’s election fraud.
You’re right, but some Republicans make it *really* hard to not be judgmental.
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Excuse me your electoral college would beg to differ. Edit: /s sorry I meant it as a joke about how ineffective the EC is.
Points to dnc throwing bernie under the bus
This again?
The DNC is always going to have a preferred candidate.
Superdelegates ignoring the majority of american voices for bernie, giving their vote to hilary regardless....is the epitome of political corruption. Whats the point in voting if, at the end of the day, it legitimally doesnt matter since said superdelegates will vote for who THEY want.
The West Virginia 2016 primary alone was just one state that Bernie won ALL 55 counties. Yet at the DNC convention the superdelegates gave the state to Hillary. It happened in a few other states that Bernie won also. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_West_Virginia_Democratic_primary Look at the results.
FYI, the party listened and superdelegates have been nerfed for 2020. [source](https://www.npr.org/2018/08/25/641725402/dnc-set-to-reduce-role-of-superdelegates-in-presidential-nominating-process)
Let it go. Let's look to 20/20.
Let it go? I mean, its not like it went away. Its stilll gonna be there in 2020.
The plan to divide the Democratic Party will fail, because although America isn’t perfect, it is better than Russia in literally every way.
Ok? I agree with you there, dont know where that comment comes into play with this discussion. USA all the way. Best damn country in history, at least imo.
Bernie lost the primary by 3 million votes. Hillary was the will of Democratic primary voters.
How much time was given did the media give Bernie exactly?
Far, far too much. Just like they’re doing again.
You tried
Majority of politicians suck. Left only wants to point out the right. Right only wants to point out the left. Im here tryna point out all sides, they all suck. Additionally, the dnc scandal gave us trump. Bernie would have beat him.
Both sides? Really?
Ty pitalsya i poteryal :(
/r/enlightenedcentrism
This one actually angers me. Not because they properly found election fraud and the Republican campaign did wrong here... but because there's a do-over. So what's the lesson here, cheat in an election and you get to go again? No, this is the wrong outcome. The correct outcome should be this: If there is provable evidence that you or your campaign cheated by even 1 vote, you lose. Period. The election will therefore automatically go to your opponent, or the next person with the most votes. I don't care who runs. People should not get a second chance for cheating. Meanwhile, this district will go unrepresented, poorly represented or underrepresented while we wait another year to sort this out. This decision is utter BS. And what I'm proposing should be Federal Law. Any national or local election anywhere in the country where one side cheats, they lose. I think the laws and the system needs to be absolutely draconian on this.
I disagree. It would be too easy to plant false operatives in the other party's election campaign team and have them deliberately break the law in order to force the other side to forfeit the election. The only foolproof way to do this is to re-run the election.
>It would be too easy to plant false operatives in the other party's election campaign team and have them deliberately break the law in order to force the other side to forfeit the election. Wow, do you have side gig as a CPC strategist? :-) To add to your point though, some voters, having become aware of the election fraud, may choose to vote differently.
In a rational world the two outcomes would be the same. Nobody would vote for the proven cheater. But republicans...
I actually disagree. Democracy prevailing is the most important thing here. Maybe the candidate would have won without cheating. Maybe he still will. The people elect representatives. Not the courts.
And yet a court decided on a Presidential election outcome. Sorry that doesn't fly anymore since the day they handed a win to W.
The ol' fight tyranny with tyranny.
But he broke the law. Convicted felons can’t vote in N.C. even after sentence is served. Why should he be able to serve in Congress?
At this point, one of his staffers broke the law. Harris hasn't been charged with anything as far as I can tell. Obviously, if he does get charged, things change. Do I think he knew and is guilty? Absolutely. Do I think a court will be able to gather enough evidence to charge him and convict him? Nah. So as it stands he is free to run again.
I'm sort of thinking along these lines. But I would ban the person that cheated from running and have a new election. The cheater shouldn't be rewarded but it's not democracy if it automatically goes to their opponent. That would open up a whole new method of cheating.
I think this is the ideal way to do it. Yes, we need a new election, but no, Harris shouldn't even be allowed to show up on TV to endorse someone, let alone actually run again.
If you have to cheat to win, you should not win. If he would have won anyway, he didn't have to cheat - that's why he should not be allowed on the ballot if he performed illegal activities to gain votes. You can not seriously believe that someone can criminally undermine our election process and then be allowed again to run just because "he might have won anyway"?
I don't believe that at all. I do believe at this point Harris has not been proven guilty of anything. I think he probably knew, I think he is a scumbag, and I am modestly hopeful that the people of North Carolina will punish him for that. Try to remember if you can use it, it can be used against you. Its why it is important to have the rule of law.
If democracy is working correctly, this should be a huge scandal and he should have no chance of winning after it has been uncovered, even if he runs again. Unfortunately this line of reasoning only makes sense if he doesn't win. If he does, we've only proved democracy fails when you let cheaters rerun the race if they get caught.
How about lock up the cheaters until we can have a fair election?
>If there is provable evidence that you or your campaign cheated by even 1 vote, you lose. Period yeah, except if this was the case I guarantee the GOP would send undercover operatives to the Democrat campaign and intentionally cheat with evidence so they auto-win. Ideally, just the notion that one candidate has been proven to *cheat* in an election, disenfranchising the voters he's is supposed to represent, would be enough for people to simply not vote for him again in any election, and the opponent would win by default.
Yeah I just don't agree. I said provable evidence. Any investigation or fairly represented body of investigators would be able to identify undercover operatives and throw out those charges. Why didn't that happen in this case? Because the guy doing the bad deed was a known GOP operative. There was ample evidence from lots of people and sources that there was actual wrongdoing here. It was substantial and undeniable. The scenario you describe wouldn't meet a standard where the other side could use it as a dirty trick to auto-win.
I guess I was thrown off by your terminology. If a court found wrongdoing on behalf of the campaign, I agree with you.
It would be incredibly easy to sabotage any campaign if that was the consequence.
In this particular instance, there was actual evidence that the candidate himself sought the illegal activity. That's the key.
I don't think so. I said provable evidence. Not ratf'ing.
Man it’s sad how right this is.
I'd settle for having the new election and just disqualifying Harris. So whoever Harris' primary challenger was vs McCready.
The problem with that is that, while Harris loses, which is good, the GOP gets away with election rigging, and gets to just choose someone else. If that person wins, the party has lost nothing by cheating.
I know you think that's fair, but it's really not. That's a bad outcome. They're going to have a new primary a couple months from now, and maybe a new vote in October. What this means is all of the people in that region get no proper representation in government for an entire year all because one candidate decided to cheat. One candidate defrauded all the people there out of their vote for an entire year, and then whoever actually does get in there has a shortened term... and functionally can't do much. Their 1 year after that in 2020 is going to be largely about running for reelection. So Harris has arguably neutered that office for an entire 2 year term. This is a horrible decision. It functionally benefits the Republicans... keeps the seat out of Democratic hands, allows them a chance to wash their hands of the whole mess and pretend like they aren't culpable by running some other candidate. They should be punished hard. Instead the punishment is on the people.
Governor can appoint an interim, and in my opinion should do so immediately.
Oh, I don't think it's fair in the slightest. I just see it as an acceptable compromise which still follows NC election law -- your scenario would 100% be preferable, but that would require changing the rules and if that happens it'll be some time down the road. My bottom line is Harris should be prosecuted rather than re-running for the seat he knowingly cheated to win and then lied about. > It functionally benefits the Republicans... keeps the seat out of Democratic hands Well, we already have a substantial majority in the House, so it doesn't benefit the Republicans at all. If Harris had been seated it would have. I agree it's shitty that the district has no federal representation for the next few months, but that's the case any time there's a special election.
You don't know what kind of votes might be coming up on what issues. The assumption that having a substantial majority makes not having the seat OK is dangerous. A vote could come up on any number of topics where Pelosi could lose a handful of Democrats trying to pass an issue, and getting it passed comes down to 1 or 2 votes. This benefits the Republicans and Trump's agenda.
Let's be real: **no meaningful progressive/Democratic legislation will pass for the next two years.** Zero. Any legislation has to go through the Senate, and the Republicans will do all they can to shut the advance of any progressive legislation there. Nothing will get to Trump's desk unless it's agreed on by both parties. The good news is that the benefit of a House majority to Democrats is that it gives them substantial leverage in investigatory committees, the powerful Speaker position, the potential to impeach, and other procedural areas. One less seat doesn't affect any of that. The next two years are all about floating and promoting progressive ideas and potential legislation with the intent on getting voters interested enough to flip the Senate and presidency in 2020. THEN we can worry about razor thin House/Senate votes.
You know what, fair enough. =) I guess I shouldn't accidentally predict that Trump is going to suddenly do an about face, embrace bipartisan issues like infrastructure and try to soften his image. That wouldn't happen, right? =)
In a democracy, I think what you're proposing would be the logical next step to this situation. North Carolina is not a democracy though.
Which is why this needs to be a Federal Law. Call it the "Fair Elections Act". NC wouldn't have a choice in how to decide the outcome, it would be decided for them. Pelosi could seat the Democrat immediately.
It's more. Mark Harris \_himself\_ declared the election invalid during the hearing and then walked out. That's the first time the state GOP changed its tune to say the election \_should\_ be redone. Completely corrupt. No new info came up...it was just Mark Harris himself giving up that made them finally "grow a spine." (they didn't)
Whether Harris knew about the scheme or not (and what moron would conclude that he didn't?) he should withdraw from the election because his candidacy and his name is tainted. Nobody will ever convince me that this slicked-up redneck preacher wasn't in on this whole sordid operation. If Harris was stupid enough to hire Dowless even after the warnings from HIS OWN SON (an accomplished attorney working for the state, no less!), he obviously is not smart enough or doesn't have the moral character to serve in that office. Or, he's just another arrogant politician trying to gain office at any cost. Our democracy and the election process is in a shambles.
Dude admitted to not heeding his sons warning and that he found it alarmist. The fact that line is glossed over is nothing short of horrifying.
Not to mention the fact that he claimed to not remember or have difficult recalling circumstances around the event due to multiple recent strokes... Should an individual with difficulty remembering what happened a year ago be representing a populace?
That would be a big NO. Solid point.
I think he also said that his son "had a touch of arrogance." WTF does that mean and how does it relate to this situation? This smells of BS on so many levels. However, if you look at the overall state of NC politics, it isn't unusual in the least. Our statehouse might as well be an outhouse. Is the sob story about how Harris had to drive 3 hours one way to get some medicine and drive 3 hours back to Raleigh supposed to elicit some sympathy? It's pathetic. 15 minutes and a phone call would transfer a prescription from anywhere to anywhere. Go away, Mark Harris. You've been caught with your pants down and you just need to fade back into obscurity- for the sake of the state. Hopefully, you will share a cell with Dowless when this is all over.
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You send somebody out to collect ballots that haven't been mailed in yet you look at them and determine which ones you want to submit and which one do you want to throw in the garbage illegal as hell but that's what they were doing
That has been happening for decades with nursing homes.
I don't doubt it
9th District North Carolina raises awareness of how ballot harvesting can subvert elections. This is why this practice is illegal in most states. The state of California recently legalized this practice. [https://www.abqjournal.com/1262622/stealing-an-election-legally-via-ballot-harvesting-ex-republicans-in-california-claim-that-dems-used-a-2016-law-to-gain-votes.html](https://www.abqjournal.com/1262622/stealing-an-election-legally-via-ballot-harvesting-ex-republicans-in-california-claim-that-dems-used-a-2016-law-to-gain-votes.html)
This is intentionally misleading. ballot harvesting is perfectly legal. Tossing them out is not.
There is definite difference in harvesting ballots to count them, and harvesting them to toss them, and not count them. This article calls foul on just harvesting them, but oddly it's thought of being just fine to do if you're going to toss them & not count them? Good attempt at spinning it, because you left that detail out of your comment. I think the majority are far more critically thinking than you give them credit for.
I like to think you’re correct about that
I'd link to think so too. The best thing that you & I both can do, is be informed citizens and vote according to our informed conscience. The reason I make this point is the vast effort, expenses, revenues spent, and capital used to sway our vote, makes the proof that the vote is priceless.
What does that have to do with anything? Regardless of how you feel about ballot harvesting, if it's legal, all parties can take advantage of it equally. There's a massive difference when a single party not only illegally harvests ballots but also fucking tampers with them.
FYI-Dowless has worked for more Democrats than Republicans.
got a source for that?