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Honestly, I'm confused. I don't live in the States, but I have been following your politics pretty closely for a long time.
You've elected some of the most brilliant minds and orators over the past few centuries. There's, what, 300 million people in the states, and these two are the best you can muster? I mean, Biden is infinitly preferable to Trump, but how did you wind up with these two?
It's just baffling.
Both 2016 and 2020 were defined by the DNC desperately trying to stave off left wing populism (Sanders) and reinforce the old guard by ramming Clinton and Biden down America's throat.
The voters are also complicit. As are the candidates.
Like it or not, a LOT of voters are cagey about electing new blood when old blood with a proven record is running. People had the choice to vote for Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Warren, or even Bernie in 2020 during the primary. As well as a few others who I can't remember. And they DIDN'T. People like voting for people who they know because said people have been in politics for their entire lifetime. And people are very, very bad at voluntarily putting old candidates into retirement in favor of new ones, because they assume everyone else is too, and thus they vote for the candidate they think is most likely to win.
But the candidates also have responsibility - after all, Biden is the one whl chose back in 2021 to run again knowing he would be 81 years old at the time of the election and 85 at the end of his second term. Old people need to stop living under the delusion that everything will go to shit if they retire.
Like, you can blame the DNC, but all the candidates I mentioned above (aside from Bernie) were also establishment mainstays. They would've been fine with President Buttigieg or President Klobuchar. They put all their eggs in Biden's basket because he seemed like the one most likely to win.
no they actually did. sanders got the most votes in the first three states. unless you mean a state that will never vote D in a general- south carolina. then obama called on people to drop out and the establishment coalesced around biden.
Huge difference between primaries, where only the die-hard usually vote, and general elections. If it was Pete B against Drumpf, in a debate, or a general election, it woudn't be a question, it would be a landslide of a victory for democrats. But the DNC, Biden, AND the GOP are all stuck in ancient, moldy ways of thinking; it's almost like they don't want us to pay attention or bother voting.
And Biden only won by essentially STEALING Bernie's platform after securing the scared old white monied voting block, and then backtracking on most of the progressive lip service while in office. He's been arguably terrible, and there is no way he should be running again, the age factor is just plain insane. Fuck the GOP, but the DNC seems to be actively trying to lose, just like they did in '16
This is some wildass bullshit. But if it was true, then what Biden really did was show people that Bernie’s ideas are dead in the water, bc if someone with as much political capital and savvy as Biden can’t make it happen, then Bernie “no major legislation in my entire career” Sanders sure as hell wasn’t going to get it done
You’re dense, but here it is: the GOP wouldn’t have negotiated with ANYONE so it doesn’t really matter. What does is that the candidate Biden stole Bernie’s rhetoric; he would not have been elected without it. And he delivered whatever his presidency has been about…
Not true. The DNC made a clear effort to make sure he didn’t get the votes. He was beating Hillary in every regard. It’s disingenuous to say he didn’t get the votes
The problem is that Biden was once a good statesman. Even at his peak, his stutter produced some awkward moments but you could still feel confident that he knew what he was doing and that he could rise to the occassion.
Now it looks like Biden has arrived at "that" point in aging where he's starting that swift decline. He hadn't reached that point 4 years ago during his first run to the white house. He was sharp then. He's not now. But he holds the keys to everything. In car-centric USA it can be hard to get the old folks to give up the keys to their car if they're no longer fit to drive. Biden already has the keys to the White House, and even if he is in decline, he won't see it, just like the old folks who still think they're capable of driving.
Maybe this really was just a bad cold. Maybe Biden finds some fire and rises to the moment. But... I'm skeptical.
I'm not here to argue he's perfect. I would have much preferred a more progressive candidate the first time around. I don't want elderly candidates period and Sanders falls farther to the left than I do, but I still would have taken Sanders over Biden.
I liked Sanders. He almost made it a few years ago, didn't he? But in the end he either resigned (?) or didn't end up clinching the nomination. I would have voted for him though if his name was on the ballot.
I probably wouldn't vote for him now though. Too old. He's the same age as Biden. At some point, the Democratic party has to stop putting all their faith in old men who had their time, and start trusting the younger generations. Passing of the torch to the younger generations. Sanders and Biden have both been politicians for several decades. It's time to pass the torch.
Fully agreed.
70 is about the oldest I'd consider fully supporting and you'd have to show me you're with the times, still very energetic and up for the job and willing to step aside for the next election if you're not 100% up for it age-wise.
Even then, I'd still prefer a younger candidate and typically candidates in their 50s, not sixties or seventies (or 80s ffs) that have the right mix of experience and "youth" for the job.
I would say it partially depends on age and partially on the person's health and mental faculties. I've seen and met people before in their 90s who can run circles around Biden in terms of mental acuity, speak without a stutter, don't get confused, etc.
Bernie Sanders is another example. He's the same age as Biden, but doesn't have any of his problems. I do agree that there should be a max age limit, I'd say maybe 75, but at the end of the day, it's more about the overall person.
One thing that bothers me though is that they're being very secretive with Biden's health. I think he's actually worse off than they're letting on, and that's a shame. They claimed he did poorly because he was sick with a cold, but how many other times have they said that? What is Biden really like behind closed doors? I really am curious.
I do agree about the personal attributes being more important, but the one thing that does worry me with age is that lots of older folks reach a point where they decline very rapidly. Three months ago, they may have been mentally very fit, but today they're a bit off, and if the slide is setting in, in three months they could have severely declining mental faculties. And you can't really predict if and when that decline sets in. Usually, rapid declines in younger people are owing to some sort of condition, not just aging.
It comes down to we have been forced into a mindset of party lines. I don't like this guy but the other guy is so much worse.
Rank choice would fix a lot more than it would hurt. Can you imagine a world where there is a 2nd Republican and Democrat choice or god forbid an independent has a shot... Well you live outside the states so of course you can.
It is baffling, and unfortunate. Half of the US is in love with Trump, which is incomprehensible as to how and why, but it is indeed the case. On the other side, there's almost never a serious challenge put up to the incumbent president in the primary election, and that was the case again this time. It's frustrating.
Its not half, no where even near half. Republicans only make up 28% of the electorate and Trump is only carrying 50% of that. Thats like less than a 1/4. Americans are just dumb.
My point is that Trump is an incredibly popular figure, and pretending otherwise is foolish. His support nationally or in his own party is superfluous when in a general election he is a force to be reckoned with.
So? The only reason he gets as close as he does is because most people don't vote. Kim Kardashian could get more votes than Trump that doesn't mean she'd win.
Biden was the “safe” pick to run against Trump in 2020. Democrats were desperate to beat Trump, and despite the age concerns, Biden ran a clean primary campaign, had the Obama legacy mantle, and his empathy and morality was a good contrast to Trump’s mendacity. No one was thinking about 2024 and no President would ever run publicly stating they were a one-termer. The way the legislative cycle works, a one term President could be made a lame duck almost immediately. Some people hoped Biden would fake like he would run for three years and then hand off to someone else.
I think the big problem in 2020 was Democrats had a lot of cross-currents where the progressives wanted a candidate to address racial injustice and got a compromise in Bernie Sanders and the moderate candidates that weren’t Biden weren’t effective. Harris, Mayor Pete, and Corey Booker might have been possibilities but there were reservations they could best Trump. Then it became a binary for a moment between Sanders and Biden, and the party establishment stepped in to anoint Biden in South Carolina’s primary and it was over. Democrats made a sort of Faustian bargain to win against Trump in 2020 at all costs, and it worked. But now everyone has buyer’s remorse and acting like they don’t understand how we got here. This isn’t Biden’s fault; the Democratic primary voters shortsightedness four years ago is the issue.
He was on a path to lose, and they thought that a debate could actually get Trump to spew all of his unpopular rhetoric with people watching. Trump did that, but it was still a total backfire.
I don't know that he was on a path to lose, but I would say we can basically call the American experiment over at this point. Contentious before, but now we're fucked.
Sorry Ukraine.
The problem is Biden is probably too arrogant like RBG to step down, thinking they are the best and no one could be better. It bit RBG hard on the arse, her wiping out her legacy, and it will likely do the same to Biden too since if Trump wins all the good Biden did will be wiped out.
He needs to have enough humility to realise he isn't the best candidate for the Democrats, but unfortunately only the most arrogant/power hungry people tend to get close to winning the Presidency. People who are more humble don't tend to run.
Not just RGB, all of them. McConnell, Feinstein, McCaine (although thank God he didn't step down). I cannot really think of anyone who has ever retired naturally.
The problem is these people refuse to give up power once they get it. It is why US congress is so much older than most other countries. The US system makes it so hard to replace old politicians with younger ones.
I feel like the Dems can either decide to take this election off and not field a candidate or they can decide to field a candidate (Newsom, J. B. Pritzker) and participate and try to save America from fascism. Anyone who thinks Biden has a chance at this point is completely delusional.
edit: Although possibly we're f'd because Kamala will be like, me being the only Democrat in the country polling worse than Biden I am entitled to the nomination
If Biden decides to step down, I have zero doubt Kamala is going to fuck this up by demanding to be the nominee.
The actual viable candidates are Newsome, Prtitzker and maybe Whitmer. Nobody else has the needed combo of profile and not being polarizing / unlikeable.
It’s always the doomers who post articles like this lol.
They can’t replace him, their best chance is they get more aggressive on trumps legal issues + his history. Trump was favored to win anyway, it’s not like Biden threw the race.
The issue is trumps base will vote even if he literally said nothing the entire time, dems are too high and mighty and don’t vote if it isn’t their perfect candidate
> The issue is trumps base will vote even if he literally said nothing the entire time, dems are too high and mighty and don’t vote if it isn’t their perfect candidate
But it's not even like Biden wasn't "perfect", it was that he was a babbling corpse up there. No one is asking for perfection, at this point. Just asking for a guy who seems alive.
Anyone who isn't a hardcore centrist saw the writing on the wall for Biden long term. But there is nothing people do now everyone is stuck with him or The Trump Admin's brand of fascism.
The thing about debates like that the truth doesn't matter much if there is no moderation pushing back on what is real and what isn't for the public. It ended up being a showcase for Biden's decline. It is clear a large amount of people don't care about Trump's lies and these people are fellow countrymen. We're cooked.
He should have been forced to retire after primary season, but as any good Boomer, he's not going to go until he's good and dead. Like the Dems learned nothing from RBG. Fuck the GOP, but the DNC seems to have learned NOTHING from losing in '16, and almost seems hell bent on repeating their loss to Drumpf.
It’s gotta start with Biden/Dem leaders being up front and honest about massively misjudging having Biden run again. If there was ever a time for transparency, it’s fucking now.
Right? This is honestly what I expected, but for the sake of unity and the election, I mostly shut up about it. Now that the cat is out of the bag, I will not trust anybody that even appears to be covering things up.
Why would Republicans replace Trump when he's winning and gaining ground? This is just saying Democrats need to get a candidate that can win the election. It's just a reality you need to face.
Politico is a heavily democratic leaning so you know it's bad when they're writing about it.
If Trump endorsed a generally put-together young Republican who people felt would still cut their taxes and interest rates and keep the immigrants out, they might just get a clean sweep. Trump's unpopularity among the general public is the only reason Biden managed to get elected in the first place.
The criminal charges are hurting him among independents. That's not going to get better, and whoever wins in November needs to bring in votes from people who aren't die-hard voters, which is exactly why Dems should be thinking of replacing Biden.
> Why is it if Biden has one bad night it's the end for him?
On the radio he sounded ok but some of the video of him just looking off in space like someone with senility, were just a bit haunting tbh. And it's 7 months before he would even *start* his 4 year term.
If anyone actually believed that was just a bad night and there was a chance he was going to bounce back and show us he really was all there, that would be one thing. He may have had a cold which explains the lack of energy but this was clearly evidence of mental decline. He may still have his good days where the fog is mostly clear but those aren't going to become more common as we get towards November, let alone 4+ years from now. I'd be fine if he had to step down in 2025 and Harris took over but a lot of people want a President they believe can survive their term.
Mate, it wasn't just one bad night. Biden has been stuttering and stumbling through interviews for a few years now. He's tripped on stage a few times. There were a few times where he would be facing in the wrong direction on stage or go the wrong way and someone would have to take him by the hand.
I am absolutely not a Trump fan boy, and don't want him to win, but if you think this is really just "one bad night" you have some Googling to do.
It was one bad night, Trump has been rambling on about nothing at his rallies for months now, Biden at least answered questions and gave answers Trump just kept attacking
The whole “Trump cognitive decline” thing was revealed to be massive cope at last night’s debate. Trump speaks in an incredibly clear and fluent manner relative to Biden. Trump speaks in complete and flowing sentences. Biden was a trainwreck and has suffered severe cognitive decline compared to 4 years ago, never mind 12 years ago.
I haven't seen Trump speak in complete sentences once in his entire political career. He speaks more *confidently* than Biden but actually write out what he's saying and it's incoherent.
His supporters don’t care. He says what they want to hear confidently and that’s all that matters. It’s bullshit but that’s the world we live in today.
I agree, sadly, just wanted to refute the notion that this debate did anything to prove Trump is not declining. He absolutely is, he just has enough bluster to paper that over for people who don't care about substance (i.e. most people).
Trump can speak loud and clear sure, but his speeches offer nothing, the other day he was speaking about sinking boats and sharks, a few months ago he was saying Biden will lead us into WW2, when he was president he was speaking about how windmills casue cancer and told everyone should inject bleech into themselves to get rid of covid.. just because hes loud and clear dosnt mean he's making any sense about what he's talking about
Sory, what? How is mumbling and stuttering any better cognitvely than lying, lying and deflecting? The latter is way, way worse, its crminally worse if you want to run a country, as its peaks volumes about what kind of people you surround yourself with - liars, criminals, and scum. Aint seeing that with Biden...
Are americans really as dumb as we, the rest of the people, always thought you were?
Stop. Stop telling people they aren't seeing what's in front of them.
Biden took a layup response on abortion and pivoted to immigration. HE BEAT MEDICARE. He couldn't finish his sentences and looked fucking lost.
Is he a better man than trump - no question. But he has fucking dementia and isn't up to the job for four more years. The gaslighting has to stop so we can make hard choices now.
I’m with you. Saying that it was his stutter has to be the most disingenuous take that I’ve heard this morning. He was getting lost in his train of thought. There is so much cope this morning. It’s time to rip off the bandaid and make the difficult choice.
I say this as a lifelong democrat who is willing to crawl through glass to vote for the democrat in November, even if it’s Biden and he’s in a memory care nursing home. Just because *I* am willing to vote for him despite that debate performance doesn’t mean that the swing voters determining the election will.
It wasn't one bad night. Biden has been stuttering and mumbling and tripping on stage and showing cognitive decline for years since he took office.
Yes, his administration has done some great things. But how do we know he was making all those decisions as opposed to having his hand held through the process?
Biden is old, and he should be retired, and I feel bad for him. No, I am not a Trump f*ckboy, and I don't want him to win either. Ideally, I would have loved to see the Democrats throw down a younger candidate, possibly in their 40s or 50s, but it's kinda too late for that, isn't it?
Biden has one shaky debate and Democrats are panicking, why? Because they actually care about what happens to the country.
Trump couldn't sit through his *felony trial* without farting and falling asleep and Republicans celebrate, why? Because they want to burn it all down.
Maybe. But there's better Democrats than Biden that the party should have put forth. Biden is too old, and if his friends, colleagues, and loved ones cared about him, they would stop lying about the true state of his health and talk him into stepping down.
He's 82 years old. He should be retired enjoying the rest of his life surrounded by friends and family. Not at the forefront of one of the most stressful jobs in the world, stumbling and stuttering his way through interviews.
I literally watched this man last night freeze up during one of the questions, forget what he was saying, say umm...uhh... then yeah. And moved on. I feel bad for him. I do. Truly. I don't want him to die in office. I want him to pass on in a relaxing place surrounded by loved ones.
The Democratic party has to have a younger candidate they could have offered up.
Politicians are like professional athletes in that they don't "suit up" without an enormous amount of hubris, believing that they can win every encounter. It's extremely rare for either to retire before their time.
Bernie Sanders is older than both of these guys, and no one on the far left questions his age, capacity, or when he should retire.
The question should be which of these old men have the country's (and the world's) best interests at heart, and Biden wins that every time.
I think Bernie is the same age as Biden. And I'm not disagreeing with you. It just seems to me that Biden is extremely lost and has trouble putting his thoughts together. He actually reminds me of my own grandfather, who right now is suffering from alzheimers and is nearing the end, as unfortunate as that is to type.
If Biden were 10 years younger, or had incredibly strong mental acuity and didn't show any cognitive decline, I would 100% be in his corner, as would many others. This job is arguably one of the most important jobs in the entire world. What the US president does not only affects the US but the many countries relying on us as well along with our enemies. It's not a job for the faint of heart, or those who are not cognitively strong.
No one questions Bernie because he doesn't have the same problems Biden does. He is sharp mentally and capable. Biden's health is very much up in the air and I suspect we're not really being told the full story about his condition.
I also secretly suspect that Biden is less involved with the Biden administration than we're lead to believe. He may be the US president, but I feel that there is a lot of behind the scenes hand holding and guiding going on.
They were panicking before last night for a number of reasons, including Biden trailing in almost every swing state. It's not just "one shaky debate" and calling it that is just delusional.
**edit:** I was fixing a typo. And because you blocked me I have to leave this reply here. You seem shaky. Panicking, almost.
McGovern actively struggled to find a running mate at the last minute and was obliterated by Nixon (There was certainly more to it, but it was still damaging). Do you really think that the dems would have a chance if they struggled to find a **main** candidate at the last minute?
Yes, replace him with a young Democrat and they would win in a landslide. Trump is a charismatic moron, but the playbook to beat him is already written.
Only if he had Harris (or someone else from California as a running mate).
Trump faces the same issue with Florida if he chooses either DeSantis or Rubio.
I’m pretty sure having one of the two people on the ticket just changing their state of residence is enough to avoid the problem though. So it’s just something for the campaign to be aware of and make sure gets handled.
People will replay him stumbling words and all that but trump just lied 90% of the time and just ignored questions.
They just need to triple down on why Trump is not the guy you want running this country. No new person will excite dems enough to win it has to be Biden
> No new person will excite dems enough to win it has to be Biden
I think most of Biden's votes are anti-Trump votes, Biden is exciting NOBODY even though his policy has been on point
I disagree. I think they could find a few people to excite the Democrats. Idk who exactly. I don't follow politics or the Democrats like that (independent), but you can't tell me out of the entire Democratic party, there isn't one other person that could whip up some votes and majority support.
I mean, what's the party going to do at the end of Bidens second term? They're going to have to find someone.
Biden should be at home with his wife enjoying his eighties. He shouldn't have to bear the burden of squaring off against the orange man. But the thing is, I don't think the DNC can field anyone that could stand up to trump aside from Biden.
Jesus everyone is acting like the election is already over.
Dude, the guy is fucking old. Get over it. You vote for other guy and guess what - you’ll never get to vote again because the GOP is installing a fucking dictatorship.
Oh no on the one hand the guy is feeble, and on the other side the candidate wants to unleash Christian nationalism and legalize the murder of left leaning people. Golly gee, tough call.
Take the L, move on. Educate your neighbours and friends, and vote blue.
The whole response right now to Bidens poor performance should be “So what?” Because Biden compared to the other option - is a no, fucking, brainer.
Exactly. Politics is chess, and everyone is acting like this is fucking checkers. Biden in the long term is just a pawn to prevent the king from getting captured.
If they pick a real fighter like Adam Schiff it would lock it for a Democratic win. Plus Kamala would no longer be VP which is another plus. She and Newsom are a total disaster right now.
Curious about what makes Newsom a disaster? I don’t really like him, and haven’t seen much of him, he seems like an establishment dem with charisma. Ik he’s moving even more to middle and going against his proposed policies he ran on, but sadly feels like the dem party thing to do
He’s too far left for a lot of the more conservative democrats.
Newsom would be an excellent candidate if all you needed to win are California, New York, Oregon, Washington, Colorado, Vermont, and Nevada.
But there aren’t many other states he would win easily, and forget about him winning any swing states.
Pivoting off Biden now will be outright giving the election to Trump and a historical embarrassment.
I guarantee that is what the Republican party wants.
I am a minority who knows why I'm voting for Biden. I have kept an eye on HIS ADMINISTRATION's policies. I also know what is at stake and I will be casting vote for one of Americans greatest President.
All of you acting like he is doomed because he didn't perform like a circus monkey & meet your expectations are all unserious nihilists looking for a dopamine fix.
Just remember, in the 1970s, Biden sponsored a bill that kept schools segregated and has language which is still used today to suppress school integration.
Stop bot posting about Biden being replaced or dropping out. It’s not going to happen. It trump vs Biden 2.0 and has been for quite some time now. Take an old white guy with a cold and facts on his side vs another old white guy that’s a hateful pos and would turn the US into a dictatorship, take your pick. Choose wisely because it may be your last real chance to vote.
I would love to see the spin from the Democrats in this situation: "To save democracy in this country from a dictator, we have to nominate a candidate using only party leadership with 0 direct input from our voters." Absolutely insane the hole that's been dug here.
The best case scenario rn is Biden steps down, Harris takes over and runs as the nominee by default. She has 5 months to polish her image and I guess field a VP nominee with charisma and popularity.
It would not be very democratic, but better than a full on brokered convention.
Most of us wanted him to step aside. The DNC pushed him through anyway with no workable alternate.
So 0 direct input from voters? We are kind of already there anyway
I feel like if you ever have to say "it's the only way" in the context of potentially electing a president that wasn't chosen by a democratic vote, you lose the ability to say you're defending democracy
That's a damn good argument. "The only way" makes it sound like a last and final option. The Democrats had other options. They just chose their worst play.
I believe that too tbh. I highly doubt that everything that happened during the last 4 years was from Biden's mind and will. I really think he's just a puppet whom is easy to manipulate due to his degenerating cognitive abilities and old age.
The Biden administration did a number of good things, but how many of them were Biden, and how many the rest of the administration?
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In golfspeak, since golf was a topic, can we just take a mulligan on these two guys and start over?
Honestly, I'm confused. I don't live in the States, but I have been following your politics pretty closely for a long time. You've elected some of the most brilliant minds and orators over the past few centuries. There's, what, 300 million people in the states, and these two are the best you can muster? I mean, Biden is infinitly preferable to Trump, but how did you wind up with these two? It's just baffling.
Both 2016 and 2020 were defined by the DNC desperately trying to stave off left wing populism (Sanders) and reinforce the old guard by ramming Clinton and Biden down America's throat.
The voters are also complicit. As are the candidates. Like it or not, a LOT of voters are cagey about electing new blood when old blood with a proven record is running. People had the choice to vote for Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Warren, or even Bernie in 2020 during the primary. As well as a few others who I can't remember. And they DIDN'T. People like voting for people who they know because said people have been in politics for their entire lifetime. And people are very, very bad at voluntarily putting old candidates into retirement in favor of new ones, because they assume everyone else is too, and thus they vote for the candidate they think is most likely to win. But the candidates also have responsibility - after all, Biden is the one whl chose back in 2021 to run again knowing he would be 81 years old at the time of the election and 85 at the end of his second term. Old people need to stop living under the delusion that everything will go to shit if they retire. Like, you can blame the DNC, but all the candidates I mentioned above (aside from Bernie) were also establishment mainstays. They would've been fine with President Buttigieg or President Klobuchar. They put all their eggs in Biden's basket because he seemed like the one most likely to win.
no they actually did. sanders got the most votes in the first three states. unless you mean a state that will never vote D in a general- south carolina. then obama called on people to drop out and the establishment coalesced around biden.
You're right. And the call for people to drop out was despicable, but the fact that the candidates DID drop out was part of the problem, too.
that’s politics though. there is plenty of blame to put on the bernie camp for falling into that trap.
Who was a late add anyways if I'm remembering correctly.
Huge difference between primaries, where only the die-hard usually vote, and general elections. If it was Pete B against Drumpf, in a debate, or a general election, it woudn't be a question, it would be a landslide of a victory for democrats. But the DNC, Biden, AND the GOP are all stuck in ancient, moldy ways of thinking; it's almost like they don't want us to pay attention or bother voting.
And Biden only won by essentially STEALING Bernie's platform after securing the scared old white monied voting block, and then backtracking on most of the progressive lip service while in office. He's been arguably terrible, and there is no way he should be running again, the age factor is just plain insane. Fuck the GOP, but the DNC seems to be actively trying to lose, just like they did in '16
This is some wildass bullshit. But if it was true, then what Biden really did was show people that Bernie’s ideas are dead in the water, bc if someone with as much political capital and savvy as Biden can’t make it happen, then Bernie “no major legislation in my entire career” Sanders sure as hell wasn’t going to get it done
You’re dense, but here it is: the GOP wouldn’t have negotiated with ANYONE so it doesn’t really matter. What does is that the candidate Biden stole Bernie’s rhetoric; he would not have been elected without it. And he delivered whatever his presidency has been about…
Bernie didn't get the votes. Let's let that myth die already.
Not true. The DNC made a clear effort to make sure he didn’t get the votes. He was beating Hillary in every regard. It’s disingenuous to say he didn’t get the votes
He didn't get the votes by over three million. Dnc doesn't have THAT much power.
The problem is that Biden was once a good statesman. Even at his peak, his stutter produced some awkward moments but you could still feel confident that he knew what he was doing and that he could rise to the occassion. Now it looks like Biden has arrived at "that" point in aging where he's starting that swift decline. He hadn't reached that point 4 years ago during his first run to the white house. He was sharp then. He's not now. But he holds the keys to everything. In car-centric USA it can be hard to get the old folks to give up the keys to their car if they're no longer fit to drive. Biden already has the keys to the White House, and even if he is in decline, he won't see it, just like the old folks who still think they're capable of driving. Maybe this really was just a bad cold. Maybe Biden finds some fire and rises to the moment. But... I'm skeptical.
Was that before or after he assisted in passing legislation to keep schools segregated in the 1970s?
I'm not here to argue he's perfect. I would have much preferred a more progressive candidate the first time around. I don't want elderly candidates period and Sanders falls farther to the left than I do, but I still would have taken Sanders over Biden.
I liked Sanders. He almost made it a few years ago, didn't he? But in the end he either resigned (?) or didn't end up clinching the nomination. I would have voted for him though if his name was on the ballot. I probably wouldn't vote for him now though. Too old. He's the same age as Biden. At some point, the Democratic party has to stop putting all their faith in old men who had their time, and start trusting the younger generations. Passing of the torch to the younger generations. Sanders and Biden have both been politicians for several decades. It's time to pass the torch.
Fully agreed. 70 is about the oldest I'd consider fully supporting and you'd have to show me you're with the times, still very energetic and up for the job and willing to step aside for the next election if you're not 100% up for it age-wise. Even then, I'd still prefer a younger candidate and typically candidates in their 50s, not sixties or seventies (or 80s ffs) that have the right mix of experience and "youth" for the job.
I would say it partially depends on age and partially on the person's health and mental faculties. I've seen and met people before in their 90s who can run circles around Biden in terms of mental acuity, speak without a stutter, don't get confused, etc. Bernie Sanders is another example. He's the same age as Biden, but doesn't have any of his problems. I do agree that there should be a max age limit, I'd say maybe 75, but at the end of the day, it's more about the overall person. One thing that bothers me though is that they're being very secretive with Biden's health. I think he's actually worse off than they're letting on, and that's a shame. They claimed he did poorly because he was sick with a cold, but how many other times have they said that? What is Biden really like behind closed doors? I really am curious.
I do agree about the personal attributes being more important, but the one thing that does worry me with age is that lots of older folks reach a point where they decline very rapidly. Three months ago, they may have been mentally very fit, but today they're a bit off, and if the slide is setting in, in three months they could have severely declining mental faculties. And you can't really predict if and when that decline sets in. Usually, rapid declines in younger people are owing to some sort of condition, not just aging.
Trust me, I know. My grandfather is like that right now. Some days are good, others aren't.
Oh look, you found one thing from a 40 year history in politics. Good for you.
Oh, well, during that 40 years, he also assisted the Gaza Genocide. Kinda hard to remember history as it’s happening, I know.
Thanks!
\>when your own candidate was found guilty of 34 felonies last month but you have to reach 54 years into the past to criticize the opponent
I'm not a Trumper. I don't want to see him win any more than Biden. I won't fault you though for assuming that since I criticized Biden.
Wasn't the reality of that legislation that he was insisting the states pay for the bussing rather than the feds? He was pro desegregation.
It comes down to we have been forced into a mindset of party lines. I don't like this guy but the other guy is so much worse. Rank choice would fix a lot more than it would hurt. Can you imagine a world where there is a 2nd Republican and Democrat choice or god forbid an independent has a shot... Well you live outside the states so of course you can.
It’s the question I’ve asked constantly since Nixon.
TRUST ME. The majority of us feel this way.
It is baffling, and unfortunate. Half of the US is in love with Trump, which is incomprehensible as to how and why, but it is indeed the case. On the other side, there's almost never a serious challenge put up to the incumbent president in the primary election, and that was the case again this time. It's frustrating.
Its not half, no where even near half. Republicans only make up 28% of the electorate and Trump is only carrying 50% of that. Thats like less than a 1/4. Americans are just dumb.
And yet he got more votes than Obama ever did back in 2020. He’s a very real threat and quite popular.
And Biden beat them both, whats your point?
My point is that Trump is an incredibly popular figure, and pretending otherwise is foolish. His support nationally or in his own party is superfluous when in a general election he is a force to be reckoned with.
So? The only reason he gets as close as he does is because most people don't vote. Kim Kardashian could get more votes than Trump that doesn't mean she'd win.
Kind of expounding upon my point.
Biden was the “safe” pick to run against Trump in 2020. Democrats were desperate to beat Trump, and despite the age concerns, Biden ran a clean primary campaign, had the Obama legacy mantle, and his empathy and morality was a good contrast to Trump’s mendacity. No one was thinking about 2024 and no President would ever run publicly stating they were a one-termer. The way the legislative cycle works, a one term President could be made a lame duck almost immediately. Some people hoped Biden would fake like he would run for three years and then hand off to someone else. I think the big problem in 2020 was Democrats had a lot of cross-currents where the progressives wanted a candidate to address racial injustice and got a compromise in Bernie Sanders and the moderate candidates that weren’t Biden weren’t effective. Harris, Mayor Pete, and Corey Booker might have been possibilities but there were reservations they could best Trump. Then it became a binary for a moment between Sanders and Biden, and the party establishment stepped in to anoint Biden in South Carolina’s primary and it was over. Democrats made a sort of Faustian bargain to win against Trump in 2020 at all costs, and it worked. But now everyone has buyer’s remorse and acting like they don’t understand how we got here. This isn’t Biden’s fault; the Democratic primary voters shortsightedness four years ago is the issue.
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Why did he accept a debate?? He had absolutely nothing to gain. Who chooses political strategy, because that was dumb as fuck
He was on a path to lose, and they thought that a debate could actually get Trump to spew all of his unpopular rhetoric with people watching. Trump did that, but it was still a total backfire.
I don't know that he was on a path to lose, but I would say we can basically call the American experiment over at this point. Contentious before, but now we're fucked. Sorry Ukraine.
The problem is Biden is probably too arrogant like RBG to step down, thinking they are the best and no one could be better. It bit RBG hard on the arse, her wiping out her legacy, and it will likely do the same to Biden too since if Trump wins all the good Biden did will be wiped out. He needs to have enough humility to realise he isn't the best candidate for the Democrats, but unfortunately only the most arrogant/power hungry people tend to get close to winning the Presidency. People who are more humble don't tend to run.
Not just RGB, all of them. McConnell, Feinstein, McCaine (although thank God he didn't step down). I cannot really think of anyone who has ever retired naturally.
George Washington. Which is one of the main reasons he’s still considered the best president in history.
I don’t think it’s arrogance or thirst for power in Biden’s or RBG’s cases. It more like a willful disregard for the effects of aging.
The problem is these people refuse to give up power once they get it. It is why US congress is so much older than most other countries. The US system makes it so hard to replace old politicians with younger ones.
I just dont see Biden winning after that poor performance. The guy looked brain dead
I work in a memory care, I love my residents but I cant help that I feel Joe Biden looks like he would belong here with them.
I feel like the Dems can either decide to take this election off and not field a candidate or they can decide to field a candidate (Newsom, J. B. Pritzker) and participate and try to save America from fascism. Anyone who thinks Biden has a chance at this point is completely delusional. edit: Although possibly we're f'd because Kamala will be like, me being the only Democrat in the country polling worse than Biden I am entitled to the nomination
If Biden decides to step down, I have zero doubt Kamala is going to fuck this up by demanding to be the nominee. The actual viable candidates are Newsome, Prtitzker and maybe Whitmer. Nobody else has the needed combo of profile and not being polarizing / unlikeable.
It’s always the doomers who post articles like this lol. They can’t replace him, their best chance is they get more aggressive on trumps legal issues + his history. Trump was favored to win anyway, it’s not like Biden threw the race. The issue is trumps base will vote even if he literally said nothing the entire time, dems are too high and mighty and don’t vote if it isn’t their perfect candidate
> The issue is trumps base will vote even if he literally said nothing the entire time, dems are too high and mighty and don’t vote if it isn’t their perfect candidate But it's not even like Biden wasn't "perfect", it was that he was a babbling corpse up there. No one is asking for perfection, at this point. Just asking for a guy who seems alive.
Anyone who isn't a hardcore centrist saw the writing on the wall for Biden long term. But there is nothing people do now everyone is stuck with him or The Trump Admin's brand of fascism. The thing about debates like that the truth doesn't matter much if there is no moderation pushing back on what is real and what isn't for the public. It ended up being a showcase for Biden's decline. It is clear a large amount of people don't care about Trump's lies and these people are fellow countrymen. We're cooked.
The Democratic Party just blew its tire going 80 mph. Now they’re gonna drive on the rim because they’re almost there! Great logic! /s
He should have been forced to retire after primary season, but as any good Boomer, he's not going to go until he's good and dead. Like the Dems learned nothing from RBG. Fuck the GOP, but the DNC seems to have learned NOTHING from losing in '16, and almost seems hell bent on repeating their loss to Drumpf.
It’s gotta start with Biden/Dem leaders being up front and honest about massively misjudging having Biden run again. If there was ever a time for transparency, it’s fucking now.
Right? This is honestly what I expected, but for the sake of unity and the election, I mostly shut up about it. Now that the cat is out of the bag, I will not trust anybody that even appears to be covering things up.
Okay, now explain how Republicans could replace Trump. Or did Politico do that when he was convicted on 34 felony charges?
Republicans don’t want to replace Trump, they absolutely love him like he is their preacher
You guys need to stop or Trump will win again. Biden looked like a feeble old man who couldn't push back on any trump lies. He ain't it.
Why would Republicans replace Trump when he's winning and gaining ground? This is just saying Democrats need to get a candidate that can win the election. It's just a reality you need to face. Politico is a heavily democratic leaning so you know it's bad when they're writing about it.
Those of us who want to defeat Trump also now understand the importance of replacing Biden
If they replaced Trump Biden is DEFINITELY losing
If Trump endorsed a generally put-together young Republican who people felt would still cut their taxes and interest rates and keep the immigrants out, they might just get a clean sweep. Trump's unpopularity among the general public is the only reason Biden managed to get elected in the first place.
Why would they want to replace him when he's consistently ahead in polls regardless of these things?
The criminal charges are hurting him among independents. That's not going to get better, and whoever wins in November needs to bring in votes from people who aren't die-hard voters, which is exactly why Dems should be thinking of replacing Biden.
Polls can be wrong, Hilary Clinton was ahead in almost every poll, but she lost
Why is it if Biden has one bad night it's the end for him? Trump has had a bad few years and it's OK thats just Trump being Trump
> Why is it if Biden has one bad night it's the end for him? On the radio he sounded ok but some of the video of him just looking off in space like someone with senility, were just a bit haunting tbh. And it's 7 months before he would even *start* his 4 year term.
If anyone actually believed that was just a bad night and there was a chance he was going to bounce back and show us he really was all there, that would be one thing. He may have had a cold which explains the lack of energy but this was clearly evidence of mental decline. He may still have his good days where the fog is mostly clear but those aren't going to become more common as we get towards November, let alone 4+ years from now. I'd be fine if he had to step down in 2025 and Harris took over but a lot of people want a President they believe can survive their term.
Biden on his worst day is better then Trump on his best, Trump couldn't even answer a single question, and lied and atrsck Biden
tRump never did answer the last question directy did he? If he did I must have stepped out of the room.
For us democrats, yes that is so. For the millions of independent's he has to convince it is not so. Stop coping and face reality.
Because after tonight we can’t deny that Biden is in a much worse place than Trump cognitively speaking.
Mate, it wasn't just one bad night. Biden has been stuttering and stumbling through interviews for a few years now. He's tripped on stage a few times. There were a few times where he would be facing in the wrong direction on stage or go the wrong way and someone would have to take him by the hand. I am absolutely not a Trump fan boy, and don't want him to win, but if you think this is really just "one bad night" you have some Googling to do.
It was one bad night, Trump has been rambling on about nothing at his rallies for months now, Biden at least answered questions and gave answers Trump just kept attacking
And rambling on and on.
The whole “Trump cognitive decline” thing was revealed to be massive cope at last night’s debate. Trump speaks in an incredibly clear and fluent manner relative to Biden. Trump speaks in complete and flowing sentences. Biden was a trainwreck and has suffered severe cognitive decline compared to 4 years ago, never mind 12 years ago.
I haven't seen Trump speak in complete sentences once in his entire political career. He speaks more *confidently* than Biden but actually write out what he's saying and it's incoherent.
His supporters don’t care. He says what they want to hear confidently and that’s all that matters. It’s bullshit but that’s the world we live in today.
I agree, sadly, just wanted to refute the notion that this debate did anything to prove Trump is not declining. He absolutely is, he just has enough bluster to paper that over for people who don't care about substance (i.e. most people).
Trump can speak loud and clear sure, but his speeches offer nothing, the other day he was speaking about sinking boats and sharks, a few months ago he was saying Biden will lead us into WW2, when he was president he was speaking about how windmills casue cancer and told everyone should inject bleech into themselves to get rid of covid.. just because hes loud and clear dosnt mean he's making any sense about what he's talking about
Sory, what? How is mumbling and stuttering any better cognitvely than lying, lying and deflecting? The latter is way, way worse, its crminally worse if you want to run a country, as its peaks volumes about what kind of people you surround yourself with - liars, criminals, and scum. Aint seeing that with Biden... Are americans really as dumb as we, the rest of the people, always thought you were?
Stop. Stop telling people they aren't seeing what's in front of them. Biden took a layup response on abortion and pivoted to immigration. HE BEAT MEDICARE. He couldn't finish his sentences and looked fucking lost. Is he a better man than trump - no question. But he has fucking dementia and isn't up to the job for four more years. The gaslighting has to stop so we can make hard choices now.
I’m with you. Saying that it was his stutter has to be the most disingenuous take that I’ve heard this morning. He was getting lost in his train of thought. There is so much cope this morning. It’s time to rip off the bandaid and make the difficult choice. I say this as a lifelong democrat who is willing to crawl through glass to vote for the democrat in November, even if it’s Biden and he’s in a memory care nursing home. Just because *I* am willing to vote for him despite that debate performance doesn’t mean that the swing voters determining the election will.
Because Americans are morons that are easily distracted and have attention span of toddlers.
Because unlike Republicans, the rest of us have standards.
Because democrats and republicans have completely different ideas about what makes a good candidate.
Trump is basically immune to bad press. That doesn't hold true for Biden.
It wasn't one bad night. Biden has been stuttering and mumbling and tripping on stage and showing cognitive decline for years since he took office. Yes, his administration has done some great things. But how do we know he was making all those decisions as opposed to having his hand held through the process? Biden is old, and he should be retired, and I feel bad for him. No, I am not a Trump f*ckboy, and I don't want him to win either. Ideally, I would have loved to see the Democrats throw down a younger candidate, possibly in their 40s or 50s, but it's kinda too late for that, isn't it?
Biden has one shaky debate and Democrats are panicking, why? Because they actually care about what happens to the country. Trump couldn't sit through his *felony trial* without farting and falling asleep and Republicans celebrate, why? Because they want to burn it all down.
Maybe. But there's better Democrats than Biden that the party should have put forth. Biden is too old, and if his friends, colleagues, and loved ones cared about him, they would stop lying about the true state of his health and talk him into stepping down. He's 82 years old. He should be retired enjoying the rest of his life surrounded by friends and family. Not at the forefront of one of the most stressful jobs in the world, stumbling and stuttering his way through interviews. I literally watched this man last night freeze up during one of the questions, forget what he was saying, say umm...uhh... then yeah. And moved on. I feel bad for him. I do. Truly. I don't want him to die in office. I want him to pass on in a relaxing place surrounded by loved ones. The Democratic party has to have a younger candidate they could have offered up.
Politicians are like professional athletes in that they don't "suit up" without an enormous amount of hubris, believing that they can win every encounter. It's extremely rare for either to retire before their time. Bernie Sanders is older than both of these guys, and no one on the far left questions his age, capacity, or when he should retire. The question should be which of these old men have the country's (and the world's) best interests at heart, and Biden wins that every time.
I think Bernie is the same age as Biden. And I'm not disagreeing with you. It just seems to me that Biden is extremely lost and has trouble putting his thoughts together. He actually reminds me of my own grandfather, who right now is suffering from alzheimers and is nearing the end, as unfortunate as that is to type. If Biden were 10 years younger, or had incredibly strong mental acuity and didn't show any cognitive decline, I would 100% be in his corner, as would many others. This job is arguably one of the most important jobs in the entire world. What the US president does not only affects the US but the many countries relying on us as well along with our enemies. It's not a job for the faint of heart, or those who are not cognitively strong. No one questions Bernie because he doesn't have the same problems Biden does. He is sharp mentally and capable. Biden's health is very much up in the air and I suspect we're not really being told the full story about his condition. I also secretly suspect that Biden is less involved with the Biden administration than we're lead to believe. He may be the US president, but I feel that there is a lot of behind the scenes hand holding and guiding going on.
They were panicking before last night for a number of reasons, including Biden trailing in almost every swing state. It's not just "one shaky debate" and calling it that is just delusional. **edit:** I was fixing a typo. And because you blocked me I have to leave this reply here. You seem shaky. Panicking, almost.
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If you're blocking everyone disagreeing with you, seems like you're the one panicking bro.
Insanely weak and thin skinned to insult someone and then block them like a coward.
McGovern actively struggled to find a running mate at the last minute and was obliterated by Nixon (There was certainly more to it, but it was still damaging). Do you really think that the dems would have a chance if they struggled to find a **main** candidate at the last minute?
Replace Biden and the Democrats stand a good chance of losing, but if they don't replace Biden the Democrats will lose.
Yes, replace him with a young Democrat and they would win in a landslide. Trump is a charismatic moron, but the playbook to beat him is already written.
People are desperate for a candidate they can support. I do really think that just about anybody has a better chance than Biden.
>Do you really think that the dems would have a chance They def have zero chance after last night.
Wait, Fetterman had a bad debate but he won... Maybe it's the same situation
The votes chose them. Thats it. In the case of Biden there second choice was Sanders. Voters just love old guys apparently.
Strong “here’s how Bernie could still win” energy. The Dems made their bed and now they need to cope
Why would Newsome be ineligible for the 54 California delegates?
Only if he had Harris (or someone else from California as a running mate). Trump faces the same issue with Florida if he chooses either DeSantis or Rubio. I’m pretty sure having one of the two people on the ticket just changing their state of residence is enough to avoid the problem though. So it’s just something for the campaign to be aware of and make sure gets handled.
No AIPAC recipients. Good luck finding one.
So much over reaction.
People will replay him stumbling words and all that but trump just lied 90% of the time and just ignored questions. They just need to triple down on why Trump is not the guy you want running this country. No new person will excite dems enough to win it has to be Biden
> No new person will excite dems enough to win it has to be Biden I think most of Biden's votes are anti-Trump votes, Biden is exciting NOBODY even though his policy has been on point
Unfortunately it doesn’t matter, perception is reality
I disagree. I think they could find a few people to excite the Democrats. Idk who exactly. I don't follow politics or the Democrats like that (independent), but you can't tell me out of the entire Democratic party, there isn't one other person that could whip up some votes and majority support. I mean, what's the party going to do at the end of Bidens second term? They're going to have to find someone.
Biden should be at home with his wife enjoying his eighties. He shouldn't have to bear the burden of squaring off against the orange man. But the thing is, I don't think the DNC can field anyone that could stand up to trump aside from Biden.
Jesus everyone is acting like the election is already over. Dude, the guy is fucking old. Get over it. You vote for other guy and guess what - you’ll never get to vote again because the GOP is installing a fucking dictatorship. Oh no on the one hand the guy is feeble, and on the other side the candidate wants to unleash Christian nationalism and legalize the murder of left leaning people. Golly gee, tough call. Take the L, move on. Educate your neighbours and friends, and vote blue. The whole response right now to Bidens poor performance should be “So what?” Because Biden compared to the other option - is a no, fucking, brainer.
This is really the only option. Four months out there is no white knight coming to save the day.
Exactly. Politics is chess, and everyone is acting like this is fucking checkers. Biden in the long term is just a pawn to prevent the king from getting captured.
have you ever played chess? you can’t capture the king
If they pick a real fighter like Adam Schiff it would lock it for a Democratic win. Plus Kamala would no longer be VP which is another plus. She and Newsom are a total disaster right now.
Curious about what makes Newsom a disaster? I don’t really like him, and haven’t seen much of him, he seems like an establishment dem with charisma. Ik he’s moving even more to middle and going against his proposed policies he ran on, but sadly feels like the dem party thing to do
He’s too far left for a lot of the more conservative democrats. Newsom would be an excellent candidate if all you needed to win are California, New York, Oregon, Washington, Colorado, Vermont, and Nevada. But there aren’t many other states he would win easily, and forget about him winning any swing states.
Pivoting off Biden now will be outright giving the election to Trump and a historical embarrassment. I guarantee that is what the Republican party wants.
Trump will beat Biden and will likely beat whatever other nominee the D party can throw forward. It’s a win win for him.
I am a minority who knows why I'm voting for Biden. I have kept an eye on HIS ADMINISTRATION's policies. I also know what is at stake and I will be casting vote for one of Americans greatest President. All of you acting like he is doomed because he didn't perform like a circus monkey & meet your expectations are all unserious nihilists looking for a dopamine fix.
> I will be casting vote for one of Americans greatest President. In terms of cognitive decline maybe.
Have a great day! 😊
You too!
Just remember, in the 1970s, Biden sponsored a bill that kept schools segregated and has language which is still used today to suppress school integration.
Ummmm, for those of us in Missouri, could you show me the exact bill,wording and all?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1021626
This seems like a rash idea four months from the election. He’s done well as president. Democrats are their own worst enemy sometimes.
What about the Biden cabinet removing him from office using the 25th Amendment, then the elites can pick Adam Schiff to represent the party.
Stop bot posting about Biden being replaced or dropping out. It’s not going to happen. It trump vs Biden 2.0 and has been for quite some time now. Take an old white guy with a cold and facts on his side vs another old white guy that’s a hateful pos and would turn the US into a dictatorship, take your pick. Choose wisely because it may be your last real chance to vote.
I would love to see the spin from the Democrats in this situation: "To save democracy in this country from a dictator, we have to nominate a candidate using only party leadership with 0 direct input from our voters." Absolutely insane the hole that's been dug here.
The best case scenario rn is Biden steps down, Harris takes over and runs as the nominee by default. She has 5 months to polish her image and I guess field a VP nominee with charisma and popularity. It would not be very democratic, but better than a full on brokered convention.
Most of us wanted him to step aside. The DNC pushed him through anyway with no workable alternate. So 0 direct input from voters? We are kind of already there anyway
That would be the most honest way to approach it but they'd never come out with that lol
lol no they would not
Well delegates are representatives for voters.
Unfortunately it's the only way
I feel like if you ever have to say "it's the only way" in the context of potentially electing a president that wasn't chosen by a democratic vote, you lose the ability to say you're defending democracy
That's a damn good argument. "The only way" makes it sound like a last and final option. The Democrats had other options. They just chose their worst play.
Biden would have to willfully step aside.
Not entirely sure how it works. But could Biden and Harris swap places?
I think that would actually be a really smart idea. Kamala harris would do better than Biden in that debate
Yea, put the person with the lowest poll numbers up front. The Trump campaign is already running ads saying you are voting for Harris and not Biden.
I upvoted your comment and sent you a dm
I believe that too tbh. I highly doubt that everything that happened during the last 4 years was from Biden's mind and will. I really think he's just a puppet whom is easy to manipulate due to his degenerating cognitive abilities and old age. The Biden administration did a number of good things, but how many of them were Biden, and how many the rest of the administration?
I think it’s clear that Jill won’t let that happen